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Will 'new' witnesses help Scott Peterson get a new trial? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph
0:08
Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two, we find a defendant, Scottie Peterson,
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Speaker 1: guilty of the clime of murder of Lazy d DS Peterson.
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Speaker 1: The case of State versus Scott Peterson. To me, feels
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Speaker 1: like it just happened yesterday. She just vanished and it
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Speaker 1: turned into a media storm within days. Please please please
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Speaker 1: let her go, bring her back. Guess what, Scotty Sanquin's
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Speaker 1: your new home. There was no biological evidence, no forensic
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Speaker 1: evidence whatsoever that pointed to the guilt of Scott Peterson.
0:40
Speaker 1: There's at least eleven witnesses that saw Lacy that day.
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Speaker 1: This is all a Scott's at the office on his computer,
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Speaker 1: so he's innocent. I wasn't last one. Did you lazy
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Speaker 1: that day? There are so many witnesses are walking in
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Speaker 1: the name of hood. After I left the cops, just
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Speaker 1: In Thenner followed up on the earlier across the street.
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Speaker 1: I remember her. When I was pregnant at the final stages,
1:04
Speaker 1: I could hardly walk. I would get in a wheelchair
1:09
Speaker 1: and get to a car, get to work, get in
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Speaker 1: another wheelchair, bewilled to the set and sit down in
1:15
Speaker 1: the anchor chair. The viewers never knew how bad it was.
1:21
Speaker 1: I really didn't realize it. My body was trying to
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Speaker 1: die and my lungs were full of blood clots. I
1:27
Speaker 1: had no idea. I just knew I couldn't breathe. So
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Speaker 1: I'm imagining what Lacy Peterson must have felt like when
1:34
Speaker 1: she went to walk her dog at over eight months pregnant.
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Speaker 1: Oh wait a minute, she didn't go walk her dog.
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Speaker 1: That's just what Scott Peterson said in an effort to
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Speaker 1: get out of a murder one charge. I Nancy Grace,
1:47
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
1:50
Speaker 1: The raging war goes on as Scott Peterson and his
1:54
Speaker 1: family and defense team fight tooth and nail to get
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Speaker 1: him out of jail. That's right, Scott Peterson in another
2:03
Speaker 1: legal battle right now, trying to get out of jail
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Speaker 1: after a jury convicts him in the murder of his
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Speaker 1: nine months pregnant wife, Lacy Peterson. It all seems like
2:13
Speaker 1: it was just yesterday, but that is the legal process.
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Speaker 1: It's still happening now. Can it be stopped? Joining me
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Speaker 1: as an all star group of experts with me. Dr
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Speaker 1: Heather Walsh Haney Florida Gulf Coast University professor Alexis Terres
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Speaker 1: Chuck Radar online dot Com, who lived through the Scott
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Speaker 1: Peterson trial with me and renowned psychologist Dr. Bethany Marshall
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Speaker 1: joining us out of l a ladies, thank you. Let's
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Speaker 1: get right down to it what it boils down to
2:46
Speaker 1: our newly discovered witnesses or so the defense says, that
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Speaker 1: swear they saw they saw Lacy at a time when
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Speaker 1: police say she was already dead. You can't have your
3:00
Speaker 1: cake and eat it too. Let's start at the beginning.
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Speaker 1: This has all been stirred up by an on air special,
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Speaker 1: a documentary about whether Scott Peterson is innocent. First to you,
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Speaker 1: Alexis to Rest Chuck Radar Online dot Com. Tell me this.
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Speaker 1: Who are these new witnesses that swear swear and it's
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Speaker 1: just not one, it's like ten or eleven. Who are
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Speaker 1: these witnesses that say they saw Lacy Peterson alive and
3:26
Speaker 1: well after cop says she was dead. These are eleven witnesses.
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Speaker 1: They are neighbors, but they're not next door neighbors. They
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Speaker 1: are people in the neighborhood who are now coming forward
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Speaker 1: and saying we told police we saw lazy walking her dog,
3:41
Speaker 1: then we saw the dog in the park. And they
3:44
Speaker 1: say this is after Scott Peterson would have gone to work,
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Speaker 1: so that this would completely exonerate him. And they said
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Speaker 1: that nobody ever talked to them and nobody ever followed
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Speaker 1: up with him. I find that very, very difficult to
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Speaker 1: believe that nobody followed up with them and nobody ever
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Speaker 1: talked to them, and if they knew something about the case.
4:02
Speaker 1: To Dr Bethy Marshall, psychologist joining me out of l A,
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Speaker 1: why didn't they come forward? Why didn't didn't they come forward? Nancy,
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Speaker 1: You're absolutely correct. I was thinking about this from a
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Speaker 1: social psychology perspective. It makes me wonder if these neighbors,
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Speaker 1: who has Alexis pointed out, they're not primary neighbors, they're
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Speaker 1: not next door neighbors, if they feel left out and
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Speaker 1: all of a sudden they want to insert themselves into
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Speaker 1: the notoriety of the crime. You know, Scott Peterson is
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Speaker 1: getting so much prece again right now, and I think
4:30
Speaker 1: they want to attach themselves to his star, so to speak.
4:34
Speaker 1: You know, reporter was up there in a minute. Why
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Speaker 1: would you want to attach yourself to Scott Peterson? I
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Speaker 1: wouldn't call it a star. I call it maybe a
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Speaker 1: train straight to h E double L. It's just killing
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Speaker 1: me now that I've given up cursing. But anyway, that's
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Speaker 1: a whole another can of worms. Go ahead. Who why
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Speaker 1: do you what do you think about these people just
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Speaker 1: coming forward now? Because it's creating a big problem for prosecutors.
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Speaker 1: Scott Peterson's conviction could very well be overturned because of
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Speaker 1: these quote newly discovered witnesses who are right there in
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Speaker 1: the neighborhood the whole time. So what's the deal, Bethany, Well,
5:10
Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting, but I was reading report about
5:13
Speaker 1: one of the interviewers at Sam Quintin and they said
5:15
Speaker 1: that he's looking boff. He was shirtless, he has kind
5:19
Speaker 1: of a crushy environment he's in. He has a half
5:22
Speaker 1: basketball court that's available to him on the roof above
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Speaker 1: him where where he's living now, above his um single cell.
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Speaker 1: And and it makes me feel that these neighbors want
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Speaker 1: to relive the excitement of the trial. They want to
5:35
Speaker 1: be a part of it at this point. And you know,
5:37
Speaker 1: people fill in all kinds of things with their memory.
5:40
Speaker 1: They begin to tell themselves stories, They lie to themselves,
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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, the lie becomes truth. And
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Speaker 1: I think that that's what's happening in this case. You know,
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Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall, I could have gone the whole day,
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Speaker 1: in the whole evening without thinking about Scott Peterson without
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Speaker 1: his shirt on. You know a lot of people think
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Speaker 1: Peterson is attractive. I never thought he was attractive. But
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Speaker 1: I want you to listen to one person that found
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Speaker 1: very attractive. She thought she had found Mr Wright. Listen
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Speaker 1: to this secretly recorded phone call that occurred on New
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Speaker 1: Year's Eve when everybody else was out looking desperately for
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Speaker 1: Lacy Peterson. Scott Peterson, her husband, was hiding from the press,
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Speaker 1: but he did make time to get off one quick
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Speaker 1: little phone call to his lover Amber Fry, And this
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Speaker 1: is what he says. Take a listen, I can hear you. Yes, okay, okay,
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Speaker 1: I'm like stee steel or something. Work. How's your How
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Speaker 1: was man in here? How is your New Year? That's good?
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Speaker 1: Are now if they came out of an an hour
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Speaker 1: quiet alley that night? Yeah, it is very good. Evil
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Speaker 1: power the people playing Uh huh, that's pretty funny. Well
7:03
Speaker 1: that's good. I'm glad you guys said to go out definitely.
7:07
Speaker 1: I can never remember your friend's name. I know, Jeff,
7:09
Speaker 1: but you always say on swans and then we have
7:15
Speaker 1: a touch claw friend of our h oh he said,
7:19
Speaker 1: oh yeah, all right, okay, resolution what with that should be?
7:31
Speaker 1: What should my arglion be? Oh, I don't know, that
7:35
Speaker 1: was my question. I didn't think of that. I'll tell
7:42
Speaker 1: them good. Yeah, yeah, good. So where you headed? Um? Well,
7:49
Speaker 1: I don't. Did you get my message? Yeah? I left
7:54
Speaker 1: your message because I was like, oh, I hope you
7:56
Speaker 1: really get that. But um, I was going to the
7:59
Speaker 1: sec is the stuffing didn't work out, So I'm probably
8:03
Speaker 1: most likely gonna go waiter to Shawn's. Are you there hello?
8:08
Speaker 1: As I mentioned earlier, joining in addition to renowned psychologist
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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, Dr Heather Walsh Haney, for instance, anthropologists also
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Speaker 1: with me Alexis to res Chuck water online dot com.
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Speaker 1: Dr Heather waltsh Heney, I mean now that Bethany Marshall.
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Speaker 1: I don't know how you work sex and physical attractiveness
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Speaker 1: into every scenario, Bethany, But that's a whole another can
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Speaker 1: of worms. Let's talk about Lacy for a moment. Scott
8:35
Speaker 1: Peterson maybe buff showing off his physique. He has time
8:39
Speaker 1: to work out with waits and play basketball. My husband's
8:42
Speaker 1: out working right now, or he better be okay, he
8:45
Speaker 1: didn't have time to go to the gym and get
8:46
Speaker 1: buff all right. He may not be perfect, but he's
8:50
Speaker 1: perfect for me. Let's talk about Lacey. Dr Heather Walsh Haney.
8:55
Speaker 1: Tell me the condition. You know, just when I said this,
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Speaker 1: I got chills down my arms because I know the answer.
9:04
Speaker 1: Tell me about the discovery of Lacy Peterson's body and
9:07
Speaker 1: what it means to you. Dr Heather Walsh Haney. Well,
9:10
Speaker 1: because the back to my knowledge, she was discovered in
9:14
Speaker 1: salt water on a beach in the relatively early ages
9:19
Speaker 1: of the process of decomposition. And what her remains really
9:24
Speaker 1: speak to is not only her horrible murder, but the
9:28
Speaker 1: fact that women are killed by intimate partners, husbands, and
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Speaker 1: boyfriends thirteen times more often than we are killed by strangers.
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Speaker 1: Her homicide is semicide, and when law enforcement started looking
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Speaker 1: for the killer, they knew exactly where to look first
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Speaker 1: to either get Scott Peterson out of the pool of
9:54
Speaker 1: possible suspects or collect evidence to focus upon him, and
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Speaker 1: they upon my reading of the case, all of the
10:02
Speaker 1: scientific evidence that was put forth, including the forensic anthropology,
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Speaker 1: and I know the forensic anthropologist that evaluated Lacy who
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Speaker 1: is She's amazing, amazing woman and talented and puts her
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Speaker 1: heart in all of her work. Hold On, hold on,
10:15
Speaker 1: hold on. This is something new to me. Who was
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Speaker 1: the forensic anthropologist, because I was very impressed with her
10:21
Speaker 1: at the time. Her name was Dr Alison Galloway. She
10:26
Speaker 1: I have published with her um. She has mentored me
10:29
Speaker 1: throughout my career and her science is top notch. And
10:34
Speaker 1: whatever evidence she presented at court, you know, was validated
10:38
Speaker 1: and meticulous. You know. Dr Heather walts Cheney joining me,
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Speaker 1: h Dr waltsh Heeney is a forensic anthropologist, which is
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Speaker 1: a very very unique niche in the forensics field. Heather
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Speaker 1: walts Cheney can look or talk about a bone and
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Speaker 1: this is just amazing to me. She can tell you
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Speaker 1: whether the bone is male or female. She can look
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Speaker 1: at a mouth, a skull and tell you the age
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Speaker 1: of the person that there are ways to determine the
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Speaker 1: descent of the person. Are they Caucasian, are they African American?
11:20
Speaker 1: Are they Hispanic? Are they Asian. I don't know how
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Speaker 1: you do it, but it's a very very defined science,
11:27
Speaker 1: and it it just mesmerizes me. I can listen to
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Speaker 1: you talk all day, but I recall Dr Heather Walsh
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Speaker 1: Heney that first of all, the baby washed Ashore baby
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Speaker 1: Connor a baby boy. You know how much I'd love
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Speaker 1: to have another baby. I'll just put it out there.
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Speaker 1: My husband runs the other way when I say that,
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Speaker 1: because he says to is enough. You know, we go
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Speaker 1: to bed at midnight and get up at four with
11:50
Speaker 1: just two. But this little baby washed Ashore. Dr Heather
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Speaker 1: Walsh Heney and observers said that it looked like a
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Speaker 1: little plastic, shiny baby doll. Now, Lacy's body was almost
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Speaker 1: it was very deteriorated. How did the baby look like
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Speaker 1: a little baby doll? Very pristine and untouched? Oh boy,
12:11
Speaker 1: that would suggest to me that Lacy's infant was protected
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Speaker 1: by her body for many, many hours before the infant
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Speaker 1: was exposed to the elements. That's why there would be
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Speaker 1: a difference in the state of decomposition between the two. Right.
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Speaker 1: It's my understanding that a woman's uterus is one of
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Speaker 1: the thickest linings or muscles in her body, and that
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Speaker 1: over time is Lacy washed back and forth in the waves,
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Speaker 1: her uterus finally began to decompose, and at that point
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Speaker 1: baby Connor just really came out of the uterus, floated
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Speaker 1: out of her uterus and washed. Ashore got separated from
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Speaker 1: his mommy, right, I've never had a horrific, sad case
12:59
Speaker 1: like that. It that is certainly possible. I think that
13:02
Speaker 1: was the theory at trial. Wasn't that the theory at
13:04
Speaker 1: trial like a stress chut because they could tell he
13:07
Speaker 1: had not been born vaginally like a regular vaginal birth,
13:12
Speaker 1: and they could tell there had been no secerian section done. Um.
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Speaker 1: One of the defense theories was that a woman had
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Speaker 1: kidnapped Lacey and held her captive to get the baby,
13:24
Speaker 1: or cut her stomach open to get the baby. But
13:27
Speaker 1: based on the body, that was not what happened at all,
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Speaker 1: and that the defense had even maybe floated the idea
13:34
Speaker 1: of a satanic cult kidnapping, and no, this wasn't that
13:37
Speaker 1: at all. The initial reports had said that the baby's
13:40
Speaker 1: body was found with a rope tied around its neck,
13:42
Speaker 1: and so that made people think that perhaps he had
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Speaker 1: been cut from her body, but it was a fiber friend. Yes,
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Speaker 1: degree from the ocean, so exactly. No, this was this
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Speaker 1: baby was in her body for a very long time
13:54
Speaker 1: and probably right before they were found is when he
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Speaker 1: was out. You know, Dr Bethany Martial. All these witnesses
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Speaker 1: that are now coming forward eleven in total, that's a
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Speaker 1: pretty good amount of witnesses. If I were to state,
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Speaker 1: I would be concerned. Uh. And what you said, Dr
14:10
Speaker 1: Bethany about them wanting to relive that excitement of the trial,
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Speaker 1: what do you mean by that, Well, I mean that
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Speaker 1: this was a very exciting case at the time, you know, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: this was the beginning of the seven our news cycle,
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Speaker 1: and there was a lot of coverage of this case.
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Speaker 1: And it could be that many of these people who
14:31
Speaker 1: were not primarily involved in the trial now want to
14:35
Speaker 1: be involved in the case in a primary way. And
14:39
Speaker 1: there was a lot of excitement, and a lot of
14:41
Speaker 1: people live very boring lives, and it could be that
14:45
Speaker 1: they want to relive that excitement to carry it forward,
14:48
Speaker 1: you know, if I could, if I could piggyback on
14:50
Speaker 1: something Dr Heather Walsh Haney said too, and it might
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Speaker 1: relate to the neighbors, and that is that intimate homicide
14:57
Speaker 1: is such a problem in our society. When a when
15:00
Speaker 1: a woman is killed, it's often by someone that she knows.
15:04
Speaker 1: And you know, Nancy, when a woman is pregnant, she's
15:06
Speaker 1: at great risk for homicide if she's in a domestic
15:09
Speaker 1: violence type situation because often these fathers who are personality disordered,
15:14
Speaker 1: like Scott Peterson, they do not want to take up
15:17
Speaker 1: the responsibilities of fatherhood. And it's in the context of
15:21
Speaker 1: intimate relationships that all the emotions that lead to homicide
15:25
Speaker 1: take place, you know, anger, resentment, jealousy, envy, anxiety, and
15:32
Speaker 1: so to kind of link this back to the neighbors,
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Speaker 1: I think this could have become almost like an urban
15:37
Speaker 1: myth in this neighborhood, this relationship, this beautiful wife, this
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Speaker 1: so called handsome husband, all the emotions that took place
15:45
Speaker 1: in this in this relationship. And you know, we're removed.
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Speaker 1: We I mean, we're in the media and we talk
15:50
Speaker 1: about the case, but we're not in that neighborhood reliving
15:53
Speaker 1: the stories and and trying to continue to figure out
15:57
Speaker 1: what happened between this husband and wife. You know what's interesting,
16:01
Speaker 1: as I walked the streets in that neighborhood so many
16:04
Speaker 1: times and it's a beautiful little neighborhood. The streets are
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Speaker 1: tree lined, the houses are small, but they all have
16:13
Speaker 1: you ever been in the neighborhood where the houses are small,
16:15
Speaker 1: but they've all been like redone and repainted in the
16:18
Speaker 1: front yards are pretty and they've got all these cute
16:20
Speaker 1: decorations are straight out of h GTV, which I love.
16:23
Speaker 1: And it looks it's a lovely little neighborhood. And then
16:27
Speaker 1: when you go to the end of the street, there
16:29
Speaker 1: is a fence on at one spot and there's an
16:32
Speaker 1: olive I think it was an olive grove, an olive
16:35
Speaker 1: orchard right behind there. It's modesto, you know, which is
16:39
Speaker 1: a huge, huge farm in produce area. It's a beautiful
16:43
Speaker 1: place to raise a child. But speaking of these new witnesses,
16:47
Speaker 1: Alan Duke with me, the Duke joining me out of
16:49
Speaker 1: l A. Allen. Is it A and E that's running
16:52
Speaker 1: the Scott Peterson special. Yes, and they're airing the third
16:55
Speaker 1: episode this week. But yeah, and that has created a
16:59
Speaker 1: huge sensation and the state is listening. Now, this is
17:02
Speaker 1: the problem I'm talking about for the state. Take a
17:05
Speaker 1: listen to what A and E managed to dig up.
17:08
Speaker 1: It's a little scary for the prosecution. I'm a private
17:12
Speaker 1: investigator here in Modesto. Scott hired Kirk McAllister for his
17:16
Speaker 1: attorney approximately three days after Lacey was missing, so Mr.
17:21
Speaker 1: McAllister hired me to see what happened to Lacy. Over
17:26
Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks, I talked to witnesses that
17:30
Speaker 1: are able to very incredibly identify Lacey walking the dog
17:36
Speaker 1: during the time period Scott is either at his warehouse
17:39
Speaker 1: or on his way to the Berkeley Marine. We believe
17:42
Speaker 1: that Lacey left home sometime after that to go walk
17:46
Speaker 1: the dog, and she would have headed this way down
17:49
Speaker 1: Covina Avenue. I speak with Homer Aldonado, he and his
17:53
Speaker 1: wife who are neighbors, and sometime between nine fifty am
17:58
Speaker 1: and ten am, they go out driving to deliver some
18:03
Speaker 1: Christmas presents to friends. When I pulled out on Miller Avenue,
18:07
Speaker 1: that's when I looked over to the right and I
18:08
Speaker 1: noticed a young lady struggling with the dog and very pregnant.
18:12
Speaker 1: The dog raised up and I just remember telling him
18:15
Speaker 1: I hope she doesn't fall, and then we just went
18:18
Speaker 1: about our business for that day. I speak to Tony
18:21
Speaker 1: Freda's a route driver for a bread company here locally
18:25
Speaker 1: in Modesto, he sees a young woman who is pregnant
18:29
Speaker 1: walking a golden retriever on the Loma Avenue at ten
18:33
Speaker 1: o eight am. Scott makes a telephone call to his
18:37
Speaker 1: voicemail that's actually triangulated by the police to verify he
18:41
Speaker 1: is on his way to the warehouse. I speak to
18:45
Speaker 1: another witness, Mr Aguilar, with my wife within this lady
18:49
Speaker 1: running a little bit down a little my avenue. You're
18:52
Speaker 1: too pregnant to be out in the coal and no
18:55
Speaker 1: jacket and nothing I told my wife had put she
18:57
Speaker 1: must be crazy. Between ten a m. In ten thirty
19:01
Speaker 1: and we have more sightings, their time periods coincide very closely.
19:07
Speaker 1: And then these witnesses that see her walking the dog
19:09
Speaker 1: plot out in a perfect circle about a forty five
19:12
Speaker 1: minute walk, which is normally what she took. Look up
19:15
Speaker 1: here you can see the area where Diana Campos would
19:18
Speaker 1: have been sitting, and that's where she observed someone matching
19:22
Speaker 1: Lacey's description walking the dog. Two men. We're following Lacy,
19:27
Speaker 1: and the dog was barking at the men, and the
19:29
Speaker 1: two men yelled at Lacey, shut that dog up. If
19:33
Speaker 1: Diana Campos is correct in her observations. This might be
19:38
Speaker 1: the last sighting of Lacey Peterson alive on December two
19:44
Speaker 1: thousand and two. Right now, shock waves are going through
19:49
Speaker 1: the courthouse there in Modesto because eleven witnesses have now
19:55
Speaker 1: come forward claiming that they saw Lacy Peterson alive and
20:00
Speaker 1: well after the police say she was dead, her body
20:06
Speaker 1: being taken to the San Francisco Bay and being dumped
20:10
Speaker 1: in a fishing marina. It took days weeks, but the
20:16
Speaker 1: body of their unborn child, baby Connor, washed ashore and
20:21
Speaker 1: twenty four hours later and essentially the next tide, the
20:25
Speaker 1: mom Lacy Peterson washed ashore as well. Is the conviction
20:30
Speaker 1: of Scott Peterson now in jeopardy. A and E has
20:35
Speaker 1: come forward with a documentary that outlines the so called
20:40
Speaker 1: new evidence and the state better be ready now. One
20:46
Speaker 1: of the states most powerful witnesses was Scott Peterson's lover. Okay,
20:52
Speaker 1: and I've met her many times. She is not a
20:57
Speaker 1: scarlet woman that she's been made out to be. Amber
21:00
Speaker 1: Fry truly believed she found Mr. Right. Well, he was
21:05
Speaker 1: more like Mr Right now, Okay, not really Mr. Right
21:09
Speaker 1: because it wasn't long that she discovered not only was
21:13
Speaker 1: he married, but married to a missing woman. Now listen
21:16
Speaker 1: to Amber Fry herself as she explains how she feel
21:20
Speaker 1: for this guy, a fertilizer salesman. You know, we got
21:23
Speaker 1: a word for that. But how does she fall for him?
21:27
Speaker 1: I don't even find him attractive. Listen to Amber Fry
21:30
Speaker 1: in her own words. In two thousand two, I just
21:34
Speaker 1: put myself through massage school. My daughter was almost eighteen
21:38
Speaker 1: months old. I felt really content and good where my
21:41
Speaker 1: life was going. In Fresno. My friend Shawn told me
21:45
Speaker 1: about this guy that she had met at a work convention.
21:48
Speaker 1: His name was Scott Peterson. She was like, he's perfect
21:52
Speaker 1: for you. At this point in my life, I didn't
21:57
Speaker 1: need a randomly date different people, and I was looking
22:00
Speaker 1: for the one, and that's what Scott said. He was
22:03
Speaker 1: also looking for the one. I had no idea that
22:08
Speaker 1: I was being introduced to a married man. Straight out
22:12
Speaker 1: to psychologist Dr Bethany Marshall, What was she thinking, Dr Bethany?
22:19
Speaker 1: You know, Nancy, I can only try to keep in
22:22
Speaker 1: mind that the features of what I think is his
22:25
Speaker 1: personality disorder, a sociopathic personality disorder. These men are so charming, superficial, glib.
22:34
Speaker 1: They are never tongue tied the way they lie. It's
22:37
Speaker 1: the lies just roll off their tongue. And you know,
22:41
Speaker 1: you know an Amber Frya is in front of the
22:43
Speaker 1: microphone and she's sort of saying she's so sorry to
22:45
Speaker 1: the family. And I take a look at her. She
22:48
Speaker 1: looks so frail. She hasn't even combed her hair. Really,
22:51
Speaker 1: it's sort of up in a bond. She looks her
22:54
Speaker 1: hands are shaking, and I think she's contract contrasting in
22:58
Speaker 1: her mind this fertile, certain salesman who was so charming
23:03
Speaker 1: with this whole family, who's devastating, and she must have
23:06
Speaker 1: had such a shock when she realized what was really
23:09
Speaker 1: going on. But but Nancy, I think he just conned her.
23:13
Speaker 1: I mean the tape that they played on any where.
23:16
Speaker 1: He says he's in Paris and he's with Pascal, and
23:19
Speaker 1: you know, she's chatting with him on the phone and
23:22
Speaker 1: he's right there in Modesto. Can you imagine if she
23:26
Speaker 1: had not been kind of prepped by the police officers
23:30
Speaker 1: and by the press that that he was really um
23:33
Speaker 1: a potential felon, a potential wife murder, how far she
23:38
Speaker 1: would have gone in this story before she really realized
23:41
Speaker 1: what was going on. Thank god, she might have been
23:43
Speaker 1: another victim, you know, alexis torres chuck at the time.
23:49
Speaker 1: I remember when Lycy first went missing and it wasn't
23:53
Speaker 1: really a big story, and we were getting ready to
23:56
Speaker 1: do our live show that night on ns HL in
24:01
Speaker 1: and it's like this, with all the stories that we covered,
24:04
Speaker 1: nobody really knows about it yet. And I heard about
24:06
Speaker 1: a missing woman and I'm like, let's do that. She's pregnant,
24:09
Speaker 1: we gotta help. We did it, and right out the
24:14
Speaker 1: get go, Scott Peterson's affect was very unusual to me.
24:18
Speaker 1: But after we did that, it seemed like the case,
24:21
Speaker 1: the missing person's case, caught on fire. How could Scott
24:25
Speaker 1: Peterson really think Amber knew nothing about it. I guess
24:29
Speaker 1: that's why he kept laying low so he wouldn't be pictured.
24:34
Speaker 1: I think he lived in a complete fantasy world, which
24:37
Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall could talk about better than I could.
24:39
Speaker 1: But he was doing basically everything that you would expect
24:43
Speaker 1: a criminal to do. He sold Lacey's car like five
24:47
Speaker 1: seconds after she disappeared. Who does that? Wait a minute,
24:50
Speaker 1: Alex says he didn't just try to sell her car.
24:53
Speaker 1: He tried to sell the house, tried to get rid
24:56
Speaker 1: of the car, and immediately before they even found her body,
25:00
Speaker 1: only a couple of days past before, he ordered the
25:02
Speaker 1: porn channel for his house. You know what, that'll be
25:05
Speaker 1: a cold day in h E double l that what.
25:07
Speaker 1: I go out to walk the dog and my husband
25:09
Speaker 1: orders the porn channel. That doesn't make sense, but Alexis,
25:13
Speaker 1: the news coverage was incredible. Remember because she was beautiful,
25:18
Speaker 1: she was eight and a half months pregnant. Everybody wanted
25:21
Speaker 1: to help find her. And he couldn't have been a
25:24
Speaker 1: bigger jerk, honestly, he he was laughing everywhere. He immediately
25:28
Speaker 1: spoke about Lacy in the past tense. It was disgusting.
25:32
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to Scott Peterson lying to Amber
25:35
Speaker 1: Fry on a secretly recorded phone conversation. Row it okay,
25:43
Speaker 1: so why did you fall through? Or go ahead and
25:46
Speaker 1: men and have this day and and and do all
25:49
Speaker 1: these things with me and tell me, always says why?
25:51
Speaker 1: But what purpose did I served in your life during
25:54
Speaker 1: this last monthly? You know you're so special? Yeah? I did?
26:09
Speaker 1: And so what are you telling me your wife was not? I?
26:14
Speaker 1: I cannot think. Yeah, there's a lot of things you're
26:18
Speaker 1: not wanting to explain to me right now, Scott, I
26:21
Speaker 1: want you want to, but you can't because why many
26:26
Speaker 1: people would be hurt? Too many people are hurt. Now
26:30
Speaker 1: if you're telling me this is international or national, don't
26:32
Speaker 1: you do? So? How is that going to put any
26:37
Speaker 1: more hurt than that's already out there? Now? How would
26:42
Speaker 1: you think this one? Just break my heart? To meet
26:46
Speaker 1: someone and you know I would tell you where I'm
26:49
Speaker 1: at my life, and you know I'm getting studying my
26:52
Speaker 1: own business. I just moved out from during the chiropractic
26:54
Speaker 1: and you know I've what I've been through in my
26:57
Speaker 1: life already to this day. You're very well aware of it.
26:59
Speaker 1: We've spent any times on the phone or even together
27:02
Speaker 1: and me talking about these things. How would you How
27:05
Speaker 1: could you possibly not think you being married would affect me?
27:11
Speaker 1: How I don't know how to answer that right? Uh? God,
27:21
Speaker 1: I don't want to hit again. But and you obviously gone.
27:27
Speaker 1: I had no idea it happened. Sounds like I can't no, no, no, really,
27:36
Speaker 1: I know you can't believe and you should help, but
27:40
Speaker 1: I should I should believe you that no you can like,
27:44
Speaker 1: that's not what I think for disappearance because I had
27:47
Speaker 1: nothing to do it. Oh my god, I had nothing
27:49
Speaker 1: to do it. Then who did? We don't have any idea, really, Sarah.
27:56
Speaker 1: The robbery here and you know, there's the Robert had
28:01
Speaker 1: something to do with my disappearance as he disappeared. The robbery.
28:07
Speaker 1: Huh and still people pregnant people for that. I'm telling
28:14
Speaker 1: you that the police the lead. Oh, those are the
28:20
Speaker 1: only leads they've indicated. Yeah. Really, well, they're not sharing
28:24
Speaker 1: anything with me. They have it. What they're not sharing
28:29
Speaker 1: anything with me. They're not sharing what with you? Invetiation
28:33
Speaker 1: kept from the church by It's unbelievable, Scott. I'm con
28:45
Speaker 1: how sorry you are being computed? You know what I
28:49
Speaker 1: will I'll give you a suggestion of a word of advice.
28:52
Speaker 1: Never apologize to someone on the phone. I should come
28:56
Speaker 1: down there. If you're gonna come down to my house tonight, no,
29:00
Speaker 1: I should have him, really, and then what you're gonna come.
29:04
Speaker 1: I wanted to know you've lied to Member Nomber. No
29:09
Speaker 1: coming to your house tonight. But what I'm saying that
29:12
Speaker 1: I wanted to do that, really, so you want everything
29:17
Speaker 1: in your time and your time frame of No, I
29:23
Speaker 1: am framing hings. Not much really, it's just very coincidental. Scott.
29:31
Speaker 1: My god, Amber, No, you don't think remember when I
29:38
Speaker 1: told you, you know, the night of that dance. I said,
29:42
Speaker 1: when I was, I came to you because I was upset,
29:44
Speaker 1: because I said, Sean knew about this before me. You
29:47
Speaker 1: told me you had talked to her. You told Sara
29:49
Speaker 1: you had lost your wife. And again, what loss? And
29:52
Speaker 1: since are you speaking of exactly exactly what did? There
29:57
Speaker 1: are many ti what kind of lost was that? I
30:02
Speaker 1: can't tell you why I did. I can't act. I
30:10
Speaker 1: can't active me. I didn't. I can't tell you and
30:14
Speaker 1: I will be able in the future to me that
30:17
Speaker 1: I don't know. An you wrong? I can't. I can
30:20
Speaker 1: only saying that would ever make me or change my
30:25
Speaker 1: mind in any way is that she's show and she
30:30
Speaker 1: is found alive. It comes to out of way. But
30:35
Speaker 1: right now, as much as I'd like to keep listening
30:38
Speaker 1: to Scott Peterson lying on the phone to Amber fry Um,
30:42
Speaker 1: many people say she was the final nail in the
30:45
Speaker 1: coffin against Peterson, but a new trial for Scott Peterson
30:52
Speaker 1: no way. According to brand New court filings, Alexis to
30:57
Speaker 1: rest Chuck. What have we learned that the state is
30:59
Speaker 1: saying about these eleven new witnesses. They completely torpedoed the
31:03
Speaker 1: state's theory that she was already dead when they saw her.
31:06
Speaker 1: They say that this is absolutely not credible. They say
31:10
Speaker 1: the credible witnesses are the ones the next door neighbor
31:14
Speaker 1: who found the dog found the dog wandering the street.
31:17
Speaker 1: Alicia was attached. This is before the other witnesses say
31:22
Speaker 1: they found them, and this was not something that the
31:24
Speaker 1: police had really publicized. They didn't say, oh, the next
31:27
Speaker 1: door neighbor found the dog at six o five pm.
31:29
Speaker 1: They just knew. So when these new witnesses came forward
31:32
Speaker 1: and said they saw the dog, they knew that it
31:35
Speaker 1: could not have happened. But this is just another scam
31:38
Speaker 1: by Scott to pretend like he's Innothent, you know. Dr
31:40
Speaker 1: Heather Walsh Haney joining me from Florida Gulf Coast University
31:44
Speaker 1: for Instant Anthropologists. Before I ask you what you would
31:47
Speaker 1: expect to find in her body regarding cause of death.
31:51
Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall, I want to go back to these
31:53
Speaker 1: eleven witnesses. You know, I once had a judge, and
31:56
Speaker 1: he was a great, great judge. His name was Luther
32:00
Speaker 1: Alverson and he dr Bethany Marshall, I've told you about
32:04
Speaker 1: it before, was the oldest judge in the courthouse. In fact,
32:08
Speaker 1: he was so old that he wanted to try more
32:13
Speaker 1: cases than any other judge and keep the lowest jail count.
32:17
Speaker 1: Jail count meant that, so you get a hundred and
32:19
Speaker 1: fifty new felons a week, and you've got to handle
32:22
Speaker 1: their cases. If they're all sitting in jail, you've got
32:25
Speaker 1: two hundred people on your court docket that are sitting
32:28
Speaker 1: in jail. That means you haven't played those cases out
32:31
Speaker 1: or you haven't tried him. So whichever d a went
32:34
Speaker 1: to his courtroom knew they had to go on trial
32:37
Speaker 1: every other week, which meant you had to be trying
32:40
Speaker 1: the case in getting cases ready at the same time,
32:43
Speaker 1: so he could keep his jail count. Damn. And I
32:45
Speaker 1: am proud to say when I was assigned to his courtroom,
32:48
Speaker 1: we had the lowest jail count because I would go
32:50
Speaker 1: on trial every other week of my life. And my
32:56
Speaker 1: point that I'm getting to is that this jul judge
33:01
Speaker 1: was so old he got grandfathered in He was on
33:03
Speaker 1: the bench before there was mandatory retirement, so he didn't
33:07
Speaker 1: have to retire. But it was my job to keep
33:10
Speaker 1: our jail count down. So we were on trial all
33:12
Speaker 1: the time, and he would tell juries Dr Bethany. He
33:16
Speaker 1: would say, it is your duty to make all the
33:19
Speaker 1: witnesses speak the truth and inmping perjury on no one.
33:24
Speaker 1: In other words, is there a way to believe all
33:28
Speaker 1: the witnesses but reconcile their testimony? In other words, is
33:34
Speaker 1: there a way these eleven people saw something. They thought
33:38
Speaker 1: it was Lazier, they thought it was that day, or
33:40
Speaker 1: they thought it was that dog. Because Alexis ures Chuck
33:43
Speaker 1: just told us that the new court filings by the
33:46
Speaker 1: States say the neighbor had found the dog with the
33:50
Speaker 1: leash and taking it and put it in the in
33:53
Speaker 1: Lacey's backyard, when these new witnesses claimed they saw Lacy
33:57
Speaker 1: with the dog. So how can we reconcile all their testimony?
34:01
Speaker 1: You know, Nancy, I think that the way our brains
34:03
Speaker 1: work sometimes is that our belief systems override reality. Okay,
34:09
Speaker 1: so sometimes we we human beings, can tell ourselves a lie.
34:14
Speaker 1: A lie might be, oh I need that two thousand
34:17
Speaker 1: dollar dress. I'll put it on my credit card right now,
34:19
Speaker 1: or um, you know it doesn't. Did you just say
34:22
Speaker 1: a two thousand dollar dress? Okay, I must I need
34:28
Speaker 1: to to have your job. Actually, your dresses do look
34:31
Speaker 1: like they could cost two thousand dollars. Okay, you know,
34:34
Speaker 1: but you know I'm going to stick with my black
34:36
Speaker 1: stretch tights. Go ahead, all right. So, so we tell
34:39
Speaker 1: ourselves something and then you know, our brain wants to
34:42
Speaker 1: believe that that this thing is correct, this is this
34:46
Speaker 1: is the truth what we're telling ourselves, and then we
34:49
Speaker 1: build a narrative around it to justify it. And I
34:52
Speaker 1: can imagine these neighbors, these families in this neighborhood having
34:57
Speaker 1: a belief that has sort of festered in Roan over
35:01
Speaker 1: all these years. That belief is a strongly held one
35:04
Speaker 1: that they saw Lacy Peterson, and they have been building
35:09
Speaker 1: a narrative to justify the belief. Does that make sense.
35:13
Speaker 1: They've told themselves stories that will buttress and support whatever
35:17
Speaker 1: they think happened that day, even if it's not the truth,
35:21
Speaker 1: and we know it's not the truth based upon what
35:24
Speaker 1: alexis Torres dress, Chuck is telling us. It's interesting. You know,
35:28
Speaker 1: my husband is a judge, and so we talk at
35:31
Speaker 1: the end of the day about what happens in his
35:32
Speaker 1: court room. And he doesn't believe anybody, you know, none
35:36
Speaker 1: of the witnesses, none of the people who come in.
35:38
Speaker 1: He feels that they come in with a strong, strong
35:40
Speaker 1: belief system and then they just back it up. However,
35:43
Speaker 1: they're going to back it up even though they're in
35:44
Speaker 1: a court of law. Well, there's another psychological twist going
35:48
Speaker 1: on here. And Heather wall Tiny Alexis Torres, Chuck, I
35:52
Speaker 1: know you're familiar with this guy, my al sparring buddy. Well,
35:56
Speaker 1: let me just say my l sparring opponent. That's more appropriate.
35:59
Speaker 1: Mark Garrighos. Okay, Now he is slippery as an ill,
36:04
Speaker 1: I am telling you, Okay. But people that are now
36:09
Speaker 1: questioning Scott Petersons celebrity lawyer, claiming he botched the trial, Um,
36:18
Speaker 1: I don't just I don't agree with that because I
36:21
Speaker 1: know Mark Garrighos. Okay. It's not like we go out
36:24
Speaker 1: and have coffee together anything like that, but I know him.
36:28
Speaker 1: I have been dealing with him in person and at
36:31
Speaker 1: a distance via satellite from many many years. And there
36:36
Speaker 1: is no way that of these people it were on
36:40
Speaker 1: the map, on the radar at all, and they were legitimate.
36:44
Speaker 1: There is no way Mark Garrigos would not have brought
36:48
Speaker 1: them on. I mean he was doing back flips to
36:52
Speaker 1: come up with defense theories. Dr Bethany, Hey, Alexis, do
36:56
Speaker 1: you remember at one point he floated the idea I
36:59
Speaker 1: think he did it with me, Larry King of a
37:02
Speaker 1: Hawaiian what was it, a Hawaiian burglary gang or Hawaiian
37:06
Speaker 1: dope gang got Lacey for what? What? What are they
37:10
Speaker 1: gonna do with lazy and nine months pregnant woman? A
37:12
Speaker 1: dope gang? What exactly? He had these crazy theories that
37:17
Speaker 1: he never actually produced any evidence for during the trial,
37:21
Speaker 1: which is what he can talk desperate. I mean, he
37:23
Speaker 1: was trying to win the case for Pete's sake, and
37:25
Speaker 1: of course they were all lies. But look, you want
37:28
Speaker 1: to have a serial system like we have in the US,
37:31
Speaker 1: then that's what you get. You get a defense attorney
37:33
Speaker 1: who was very experienced and they come up with whatever
37:37
Speaker 1: theory will help their client. And if you're charged with murder,
37:40
Speaker 1: you'd want your lawyer to do the same thing. Do anything,
37:43
Speaker 1: just get me out of here. So Garigs came up
37:46
Speaker 1: with all sorts of theories. But now he's under fire. Uh,
37:52
Speaker 1: he's being the scapegoat, claiming he boughts the trial, that
37:56
Speaker 1: he didn't do a good job. And I really believe
38:00
Speaker 1: Alexis that people questioning his performance, not that I agree
38:04
Speaker 1: with him. We fight like cats and dogs. Uh, people
38:07
Speaker 1: questioning him are ignoring overwhelming evidence that Scott Peterson killed
38:14
Speaker 1: his wife and dumped her body in the bay. I
38:18
Speaker 1: am actually, God help me defending Mark Garri goes here,
38:23
Speaker 1: help me, Alexis, Have I lost my mind? You have completely,
38:26
Speaker 1: because you know he has been talking since since y'all
38:30
Speaker 1: show came out with with you and he on the
38:32
Speaker 1: show and he's saying, oh yeah, there is really a
38:34
Speaker 1: lot of evidence they didn't allow in basically just slamming himself.
38:39
Speaker 1: So I think that he's just trying to help his
38:42
Speaker 1: client since he lost the case so brutally. Because Scott
38:46
Speaker 1: Peterson is guilty of killing his wife. The discovery of
38:50
Speaker 1: brand new witnesses eleven witnesses that we know of claiming
38:54
Speaker 1: Scott Peterson is not guilty. Why because they say, without
38:59
Speaker 1: a otto of a doubt, they are absolutely certain they
39:02
Speaker 1: saw Lacy Peterson alive and well after police say she
39:08
Speaker 1: was already dead and with me Dr Bethany Marshall out
39:12
Speaker 1: of l A. Dr Heather waltsh Heeney, forensic anthropologist, professor
39:17
Speaker 1: at Florida Gulf Coast University and radar onlines. Alexis terres Chuck,
39:24
Speaker 1: you know the attack on Mark Garrigos, claiming that he
39:27
Speaker 1: boughts the trial by not bringing these witnesses forward. Well,
39:31
Speaker 1: according to court documents, these witnesses do not exonerate Scott Peterson.
39:38
Speaker 1: What do we know, Alexis terres Chuck, Well, Scott Peterson
39:42
Speaker 1: is trying to say that there are eleven new witnies,
39:44
Speaker 1: eleven people ten fifteen years later after he killed his
39:47
Speaker 1: wife that have all of a sudden said that nobody
39:50
Speaker 1: ever spoke to them, and that they had all this
39:53
Speaker 1: bombshell evidence that they tried to give cops, and the
39:55
Speaker 1: cops ignored because that's the new thing when you know,
39:57
Speaker 1: documentaries come out as that people say all the cops
39:59
Speaker 1: did everything. We're so the prosecutors who put this man
40:04
Speaker 1: on death row are saying this is absolutely not credible.
40:07
Speaker 1: These people offered information that completely was the opposite of
40:12
Speaker 1: the solid proof they had, Like physically when the dog
40:16
Speaker 1: was found by the neighbors and returned. They're saying they
40:19
Speaker 1: saw lazy walking this dog afterwards did not happen. And
40:22
Speaker 1: in fact, Mark Garregs must have known that they were
40:24
Speaker 1: not credible, because he did not put them on the stand.
40:27
Speaker 1: And as you said, he's a good lawyer, Well, that
40:29
Speaker 1: would have been that would have been devastating. It's better
40:32
Speaker 1: don't put him on the stand than hands your defense
40:35
Speaker 1: on them. Put him on the stand and have it
40:37
Speaker 1: destroyed and cross examination. Better the jury think your client
40:42
Speaker 1: is an ass and remained silent, then speak and confirmed
40:46
Speaker 1: their suspicions. That's my theory. And opening statements at the trial,
40:50
Speaker 1: Mark Garrego seemed to promise he would exonerate Scott Peterson
40:54
Speaker 1: with eyewitness testimony from the very people in the neighborhood
40:58
Speaker 1: there in Lolma and at a nearby park after her
41:02
Speaker 1: husband leaves to go fishing, that would have made it
41:05
Speaker 1: completely impossible for him to have killed her. Now, these
41:09
Speaker 1: witnesses who have appeared and are appearing in a seven
41:13
Speaker 1: hour documentary on A and E were never put on
41:17
Speaker 1: the witness stand. Neither were those burglars who were identified
41:22
Speaker 1: later and played guilty that took a safe from a
41:25
Speaker 1: home on Covina Avenue, that's Lacy's address. Now, why didn't
41:30
Speaker 1: they testify Because according to the state documents that have
41:34
Speaker 1: just been filed, the neighborhood witnesses were not believable and
41:39
Speaker 1: the burglary have a December not December twenty four when
41:44
Speaker 1: Lacy went missing. Now it's my understanding, alexis, the timeline
41:49
Speaker 1: was really kicked off by a next door neighbor who
41:52
Speaker 1: finds the dog, Mackenzie, Lacy's Golden retriever Lisa attached because Mark,
41:58
Speaker 1: Because excuse me, Mark, he had like that because Scott
42:01
Speaker 1: Peterson lent him out with his collar on and his leash.
42:05
Speaker 1: They find, she finds the dog and brings them back.
42:10
Speaker 1: The burglary victims left the home after the dog was found. Repeat,
42:18
Speaker 1: the burglary victims left their home after the dog was found,
42:23
Speaker 1: which means, alexis that by the time when the neighbor
42:28
Speaker 1: found the dog and brought it back, the burglary had
42:32
Speaker 1: not even happened yet and Lacey was already dead. Now,
42:38
Speaker 1: the purported or alleged sidings of Lacey were many, many,
42:42
Speaker 1: many seventy four sidings in twenty six states and even
42:48
Speaker 1: across the oceans. Um, what do you make about all this?
42:54
Speaker 1: Because right now the Habeas corpus appeal is happening. It
43:00
Speaker 1: happening right now, and there is a girard Rochelle and
43:03
Speaker 1: I nicknamed her Strawberry Shortcake on the air because of
43:06
Speaker 1: her Her hair color was the color strawberries, So I
43:09
Speaker 1: named a strawberry shortcake because of her her hair die
43:13
Speaker 1: and she failed to mention she had been assaulted when
43:16
Speaker 1: she was expecting four years earlier, and they claimed that
43:20
Speaker 1: she should have been thrown out. Those are some of
43:23
Speaker 1: the claims they're making. Alexis, I think that they're grasping
43:28
Speaker 1: for straws because they don't actually have any solid evidence.
43:32
Speaker 1: They have nothing that shows that that Scott was anywhere
43:35
Speaker 1: other than where he was, which is at the house
43:36
Speaker 1: killing his wife. And in fact, these documents even say
43:39
Speaker 1: that that they are really saying the judge let in
43:42
Speaker 1: a lot of evidence that shouldn't have been let in
43:44
Speaker 1: what he left, like what the dog evidence, because they
43:47
Speaker 1: argued hell and high water that the tracking dog that
43:51
Speaker 1: picked up Lacey sent at the Berkeley Marina where Scott
43:55
Speaker 1: Peterson went fishing that day and he has a receipt
43:59
Speaker 1: to show he is there. That's his story that he
44:01
Speaker 1: was there where her body was done. The dog picked
44:04
Speaker 1: up Lacy sent at Berkeley Marina four days after Scott
44:08
Speaker 1: Peterson was there. I think with her body in his boat.
44:12
Speaker 1: That came in at trial. But alexis correct me if
44:15
Speaker 1: I'm wrong. There was more dog scent evidence that didn't
44:18
Speaker 1: come in. Judge al du Luki threw it out. And
44:22
Speaker 1: that dog picked up Lacey's body sent between her home
44:26
Speaker 1: and her husband's warehouse where he made those cement blocks.
44:30
Speaker 1: He didn't let that in. The jury never even heard that. Yeah,
44:33
Speaker 1: never at all, And so that just shows how much
44:35
Speaker 1: more they actually had against him. These dogs are really trustworthy.
44:38
Speaker 1: This isn't something that you can make up. Dogs don't
44:40
Speaker 1: have any reason to lie. They just do their job,
44:42
Speaker 1: which is to track a scent, and they find it
44:44
Speaker 1: at the warehouse. It's a direct correlation to show that
44:47
Speaker 1: Scott that's where he packaged her up, weighted her body down,
44:52
Speaker 1: and put her in his boat. You know, I have
44:55
Speaker 1: often said the best witnesses I ever put on the
44:58
Speaker 1: stand were dogs. Juries love them, and they can't lie.
45:03
Speaker 1: Scientific evidence cannot be beaten. And that's why we have
45:07
Speaker 1: with us a very special guest today from ends to
45:09
Speaker 1: anthropologist Dr Heather Walsh Haney from f g CU. She's
45:15
Speaker 1: a professor there, Dr walsh Haney. With her body having
45:20
Speaker 1: been submerged in the water for so long, how would
45:24
Speaker 1: that affect her remains? What does water do to the
45:29
Speaker 1: human body? Typically UM in from bracktige to fresh to
45:35
Speaker 1: salt water. What happens is that the water will slow
45:39
Speaker 1: down our bodies UM decomposition process. So in the field
45:45
Speaker 1: of forensic anthropology, what we tend to say is UM
45:49
Speaker 1: two weeks of the human remains on the surface would
45:53
Speaker 1: be equal to four weeks submerged in water because the
46:00
Speaker 1: presence of water will slow down the rate of decomposition. Sadly, though,
46:07
Speaker 1: there is very little UM research where we have used
46:13
Speaker 1: human donations in water settings, and UM collected UH data
46:21
Speaker 1: every day, every couple of days, and every month. So
46:25
Speaker 1: what we really have is meta analysis that through cases
46:29
Speaker 1: like this one where we know when the victim was missing,
46:32
Speaker 1: we know when the victim was found, and then we
46:35
Speaker 1: backtracked through the evidence to see how our our bodies change.
46:39
Speaker 1: And so one of the things that can also happen
46:42
Speaker 1: is that our extremities will fall away from our remains
46:46
Speaker 1: in UM a water setting. UM. Unfortunately, to that also
46:51
Speaker 1: means that defensive wounds that could be on the hands
46:54
Speaker 1: or on the forearms may be gone because those those
46:58
Speaker 1: extremities will disappear over time him and water UM. But
47:01
Speaker 1: the other thing that's interesting is the human remains detect
47:05
Speaker 1: or dog evidence. I had forgotten that these dogs have
47:09
Speaker 1: been used now. At the time of Lacy's disappearance, human
47:14
Speaker 1: remains detector dogs were not used um to the extent
47:19
Speaker 1: that they are now, and now we know so much
47:21
Speaker 1: more about their ability to detect decomposing human remains above
47:26
Speaker 1: and beyond non human They will exclude non human remains,
47:30
Speaker 1: they will exclude garbage and these remains. These dogs are
47:34
Speaker 1: specifically trained on human decomposing scent. And to know that
47:39
Speaker 1: the dogs were hitting and following that trail to the
47:42
Speaker 1: warehouse is is amazing evidence that I think now if
47:47
Speaker 1: the handlers had their training records on the human remains
47:50
Speaker 1: detector dogs, that's evidence that could be brought into court now.
47:54
Speaker 1: That prop that it sounds like wasn't allowed into court
47:57
Speaker 1: during the original trial. You know, doctor Heather Watch Cheney,
48:00
Speaker 1: I had made notes to try to keep up with you.
48:04
Speaker 1: One of my next no, no, no. One of my
48:07
Speaker 1: next notes, one of my next notes was about her
48:11
Speaker 1: extremities were off her body her It was basically a
48:15
Speaker 1: torso that was found. I think she still had on
48:17
Speaker 1: an eternity bra and I think her pants were found somewhere.
48:22
Speaker 1: But regarding her extremities, I'm talking about arms and legs.
48:28
Speaker 1: Her being in the water, would that have precluded us
48:32
Speaker 1: finding tool markings such as was she dismembered by a
48:35
Speaker 1: saw or some other type of tool? Well, and thinking
48:41
Speaker 1: about my own casework and the published literature, if someone
48:46
Speaker 1: is dismembered UM with a saw or a hatchet, usually
48:53
Speaker 1: those cut marks will be found on the intact torso,
48:58
Speaker 1: even though the extremities are gone on you know that
49:00
Speaker 1: blade cut through the bone, marking both sides of it,
49:04
Speaker 1: the side where the extremity has gone and then the
49:07
Speaker 1: side that is still intact with the torso. So it
49:10
Speaker 1: sounds to me like as though if that evidence wasn't
49:13
Speaker 1: brought in at court, it's unlikely that UM an instrument
49:18
Speaker 1: like that was used, right, I think that the water
49:22
Speaker 1: uh decomposed her body. Guys, this is not just a
49:28
Speaker 1: special on A and E. A and These. The Murder
49:31
Speaker 1: of Lacy Peterson is airing on Tuesday's is an episode
49:36
Speaker 1: each week for six weeks, stretching for a total of
49:39
Speaker 1: seven hours, and it features Amber Fry, Scott Peterson's then girlfriend,
49:45
Speaker 1: and has jurars um anchors, reporters, detectives, lawyers, all sorts
49:52
Speaker 1: of people. And we also hear from Scott Peterson because
49:56
Speaker 1: his sister in law, Jamie Peterson, calls him from behind bars.
50:01
Speaker 1: He's there in San Quentin, and you can just say
50:03
Speaker 1: whatever he wants to. That's that's easy because whose cross
50:06
Speaker 1: examining him. He did not stand up and testifying in
50:09
Speaker 1: front of the jury. I can tell you that much
50:11
Speaker 1: because he didn't want to be cross examined. So now
50:14
Speaker 1: he's talking to his sister in law on the phone
50:17
Speaker 1: and no one is there to challenge him. But it's
50:20
Speaker 1: not just an A and E special, which is really riveting.
50:25
Speaker 1: It is an ongoing legal battle. The Habeas Corpus appeal
50:29
Speaker 1: has been filed claiming his constitutional rights were violated. It's
50:35
Speaker 1: on and we're watching. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
50:42
Speaker 1: Goodbye Friend,