Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / The Evolution of Levels at Competition

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The Evolution of Levels at Competition · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

0:07
SPEAKER_07: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
0:10
SPEAKER_07: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
0:13
SPEAKER_07: This is Making the Impact a Dance Competition podcast.
0:15
SPEAKER_07: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance, from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
0:24
SPEAKER_07: You asked, we answered.
0:26
SPEAKER_07: It's been over a hundred episodes since we've covered levels at competition, and we're back with your 2.0 episode.
0:32
SPEAKER_07: This time, we've invited Elma Lee Pace, a studio owner from Maine, and Steve Wopel, owner of StarQuest Dance Competition, to weigh in on how the industry has evolved with the addition of levels, to reminisce in the wild, wild west of the 90s competition scene, and to look at levels from a new perspective.
0:50
SPEAKER_02: Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
0:54
SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here, like always, with my wonderful co-host, Leslie Miller.
1:01
SPEAKER_07: Hey Courtney, I am so stoked about this episode today.
1:04
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, I think everyone is stoked for this episode.
1:08
SPEAKER_03: We've been waiting to do it.
1:10
SPEAKER_03: We have been wanting to talk about levels again on the podcast.
1:14
SPEAKER_03: And guess what, Dance World?
1:16
SPEAKER_03: The time is now.
1:17
SPEAKER_07: The time is now, and we will be journeying back to the 90s before there were levels.
1:22
SPEAKER_07: Which is why I use the word stoked, because like I'm stoked.
1:26
SPEAKER_07: So stoked.
1:28
SPEAKER_07: Yes, but it's gonna be a great episode today.
1:30
SPEAKER_07: We have some amazing guests that I think y'all will really enjoy.
1:33
SPEAKER_07: So yeah, what's up with you, Courtney?
1:36
SPEAKER_03: Not too much.
1:36
SPEAKER_03: I've been super busy lately, actually, just in the convention swing of things in the fall off season before the competition season officially starts, but I have been judging a little bit at Revel and uh traveling and teaching the dancers around the country.
1:52
SPEAKER_03: It's been great.
1:53
SPEAKER_03: And over here, we're just gearing up for the IDA season to start.
1:57
SPEAKER_03: We are, you know, working with a lot of competitions again, like we always do, a lot of our IDA-affiliated competitions.
2:03
SPEAKER_03: We're getting the judges staffed and ready to go.
2:06
SPEAKER_03: And we're doing a lot of online critiques, actually.
2:09
SPEAKER_03: I know you are doing a lot of online critiques.
2:12
SPEAKER_07: Yes, I had my third ankle surgery back in November, and I'm still, you know, very much in PT for that.
2:19
SPEAKER_07: So I'm trying to stay off my feet uh besides doing some exercises and stuff.
2:22
SPEAKER_07: So I've been really grateful for everyone who has been sending in online critiques.
2:26
SPEAKER_07: That is a service that we provide at IDA.
2:29
SPEAKER_07: It can be anywhere from you know solo to a group that you are interested in getting some pre-competition feedback for.
2:35
SPEAKER_07: And so that is another way that we keep our IDA judges working during the off season.
2:40
SPEAKER_07: So if you are interested, go on over to our website and find out about our online critique service and get you some critiques because we're here.
2:47
SPEAKER_07: We're ready.
2:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
2:48
SPEAKER_03: And we do, we've been actually getting a lot of requests lately for bulk studio orders for online critiques.
2:53
SPEAKER_03: And that's something.
2:53
SPEAKER_03: So if you're a studio owner out there or a teacher out there and you want to some submit, you know, a bunch of videos over to us to just get a second set of eyes to check out your routine from one of our judges and give some feedback and make some tweaks before you officially hit the stage.
3:08
SPEAKER_03: That is definitely what our service is utilized for for a lot of dancers.
3:12
SPEAKER_03: So take advantage of that.
3:13
SPEAKER_03: Visit our website at impactdanceadjudicators.com/slash online critiques to learn more about our service.
3:20
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
3:21
SPEAKER_03: And it is time to hear from our sponsors, and we couldn't make this podcast possible without them.
3:27
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3:30
SPEAKER_07: We are so excited to welcome a new sponsor to Making the Impact for season four.
3:34
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3:39
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3:42
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3:49
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3:59
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4:06
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4:12
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4:16
SPEAKER_03: And next up is our sponsor since season one, and that is Level Up Dance Supplies.
4:21
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4:28
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4:41
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4:45
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5:22
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5:35
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5:40
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5:48
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5:54
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6:00
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6:02
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6:12
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6:16
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6:18
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6:24
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6:30
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6:33
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6:35
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6:37
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6:38
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6:44
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6:48
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6:50
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6:57
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7:02
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7:04
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7:05
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7:09
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7:11
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7:21
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7:24
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7:30
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7:34
SPEAKER_03: All right, dance world.
7:35
SPEAKER_03: It's time to jump into this week's episode all about levels and the evolution of levels at dance competitions.
7:43
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, cannot wait to talk about this.
7:46
SPEAKER_03: I know our listeners have been waiting for a long time for us to bring back the levels chat.
7:50
SPEAKER_03: We talk about it often in different episodes on the podcast, but now here's that episode that you've been dying to hear.
7:56
SPEAKER_03: And we have two brand new guests joining us on this week's episode.
7:59
SPEAKER_03: And I'm very, very excited about it.
8:01
SPEAKER_03: I mean, these guests are perfect for this episode.
8:03
SPEAKER_03: The first guest that I'm excited to welcome is a longtime studio owner who has been competing since the 90s.
8:10
SPEAKER_03: So actually, before levels even existed, everybody.
8:13
SPEAKER_03: Can you believe that?
8:14
SPEAKER_03: It happened.
8:14
SPEAKER_03: It was there.
8:15
SPEAKER_03: There were no levels at a point in time back in the day, is what we're gonna say.
8:19
SPEAKER_03: And I've had the pleasure of teaching her dancers up in Maine.
8:23
SPEAKER_03: They are awesome and so lovely.
8:25
SPEAKER_03: I'm excited to welcome Alma Lee Pace to our podcast.
8:29
SPEAKER_03: Welcome, Alma.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
8:31
SPEAKER_03: Yay! So happy you could join us for this chat.
8:34
SPEAKER_03: And uh when we were searching, we knew we wanted a studio owner perspective on this discussion because we've talked about levels so much on the podcast from just the judges side of things.
8:43
SPEAKER_03: And now I think it's important to hear as a studio owner who has been around since pre-levels and now with levels, how your experience has been with that transition as well, if you love them, if you hate them.
8:54
SPEAKER_03: Tell us we're we're gonna learn all about that in this discussion today.
8:58
SPEAKER_03: But before we jump into that, please feel free to tell the listeners out there a little bit more about you, where you're based, your early dance training, and how you became a studio owner.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, awesome.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: I've had my studio open for 32 years.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: We're in our 32nd season right now, and in and loving that we are able to still be here after COVID, all the COVID shutdowns.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: So that's it's amazing.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: And I started my first class was July 1st, 1991.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: And we started competing in early 1995 and have just we've competed ever since.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: I have I'm a member of Dance Masters of America.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: I've done uh teachers' training school and I chaperoned for the shit program for several, several years.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: And I'm also a national examiner, helping other teachers and mentoring other teachers to uh certify in for through Dance Masters.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: And uh just I I really love being involved in the program and I love being involved with helping helping teachers become better teachers and inspiring them and being able to pass that on to our kids.
10:09
SPEAKER_03: Yes, love that.
10:11
SPEAKER_01: And it was 32 degrees today.
10:13
SPEAKER_03: Really, right?
10:16
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
10:17
SPEAKER_03: Wait, what's it in New York?
10:18
SPEAKER_03: Because it's yeah, I went, I just got out.
10:20
SPEAKER_03: It's 41 degrees right now in New York.
10:23
SPEAKER_03: It's not much better.
10:24
SPEAKER_03: It's cold.
10:24
SPEAKER_03: I had to get my winter jacket out this morning to go get my bagel.
10:27
SPEAKER_03: I was upset about it.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: It was cold this morning.
10:32
SPEAKER_03: And Alma, I um also want to give a shout out to your daughter, Brittany, because she has actually worked on um on the IDA side of things a little bit as a videographer and helped us do some video editing for our virtual competitions that happened during the pandemic.
10:47
SPEAKER_03: And I I've connected with her.
10:48
SPEAKER_03: She's filmed my class at Steps on Broadway in New York City, like so cool.
10:52
SPEAKER_03: So I love that she's still so involved in the dance world and you know, the videographer side of things is much needed for our dance industry.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm super proud of her.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: She's done a really great job with her art and and I'm just super proud of her.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: And I love that it also she's a mentor to a lot of students as well, just letting them know that even outside of a performing career, that there's so much else out in the dance world that you can do.
11:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: And my other daughter works for another competition.
11:19
SPEAKER_01: So they're just they're both in there and they're great teachers, but this is the avenue that they decided to take.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm just proud of both of them.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
11:27
SPEAKER_03: I love hearing that.
11:28
SPEAKER_03: Yay.
11:29
SPEAKER_03: Sweet.
11:30
SPEAKER_03: Well, can't wait to dive into this topic with you.
11:32
SPEAKER_03: Thanks for being here today.
11:33
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
11:35
SPEAKER_03: All right.
11:35
SPEAKER_03: And our very next special guest is someone that I've known for a long time, everyone.
11:40
SPEAKER_03: I actually grew up competing at their competition.
11:44
SPEAKER_03: And we have talked about for a while, we've been saying we need to have more competition owners on the podcast.
11:50
SPEAKER_03: We need to have that perspective because obviously, this is a dance competition podcast.
11:55
SPEAKER_03: This is about dance competitions.
11:56
SPEAKER_03: So, where are the competition owners?
11:58
SPEAKER_03: Well, I knew the perfect person to come join us on this discussion because I've had a very close relationship with them throughout my practically my entire career, my competitive career and my adult career.
12:09
SPEAKER_03: I've stayed close with this amazing man.
12:12
SPEAKER_03: I'm excited to welcome the owner of Star Quest National Dance Competition, Mr.
12:16
SPEAKER_03: Steve Whopple.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you so much, Courtney.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: It's an honor to be here.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: It really, truly is.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: I think you really are without trying to uh mess up the words.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: You're really making an impact with what you're what you're doing.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: You know, studio owners make an impact, teachers make an impact, but to make life better for the dancers, you know, with judging, good judging, quality judging, it makes a difference.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: So I'm glad you're doing this and extending out with the podcast.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: That's too exciting.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
12:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, thanks, Steve.
12:46
SPEAKER_03: I have always been so grateful for your support.
12:49
SPEAKER_03: And FYI, everyone, Star Quest is not an IDA affiliated competition, but they are obviously Steve is here because he supports what we're doing and he supports me.
12:58
SPEAKER_03: And I also support Star Quest because I love what they're doing in the industry.
13:03
SPEAKER_03: And when you guys introduce, I know we're going to talk about it, but this season is your 30th year anniversary for Star Quest, which is so exciting.
13:10
SPEAKER_03: Congratulations.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: I never even imagined it.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I started out.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: I I mean, I didn't, it's a second career.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: Star Quest is a second career.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: I didn't start it until uh later in my life because what I had done before was I did a lot of national tours as a dancer and then as a stage manager.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: And then my sister-in-law, who of course was the studio owner that you were with out in Baltimore.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: She invited me one time because I'd been lighting her recitals uh every year.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: It was it was the tech side of of what I was doing.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: And uh she invited me to see a competition, and I'd never even heard of it.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: And this was like in 1990.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: Do you remember what competition it was?
13:49
SPEAKER_00: All I really remember was the house lights in the auditorium were on full.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: Kids and parents were walking around, and there was no focus on the dancer.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: There were no stage managers backstage.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: There were no, it was sort of like the wild, wild west.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: And my favorite was that the awards were done where the MC would announce the winner, and then the the dancer would go down to the lip of the stage, and there would be cardboard boxes in the auditorium right below it.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh, and kids in um young girls in jeans and t-shirts, and each box had like one box was first place, one box was second place, one box is third place trophy.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I I see her mouth, I see her mouth first, and then the the girl got had first.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's me.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: So I gave her the the trophy.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, we have we have come a long way since then in terms of staging, because the the initial thing I I really recognize was that the opportunity for a dancer to dance is one thing.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: And in the studio, it's very focused and and very private.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: But when you're out there in the public in an auditorium, you have to set up the conditions to make sure that the dancers, everyone is looking at that dancer, and the dancer can communicate to the audience.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: And that lack of focus is, I think, one of the difficulties that occurred.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, gosh, levels weren't even being thought of at the time.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: It was more about not production value, but about making sure the lighting was right on the stage.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: Have the house lights out, have a stage manager backstage, let the kids experience Broadway style stage management.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: And if we did that, hopefully they would dance better.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: Because the bottom line goal in any Broadway show or anything, even as Alma knows on a recital, is to remove any impediment to having a great dance.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: You want to make sure that all the obstacles are removed.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: And even just the little bit of fo of having your focus thrown when you're backstage before going on.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Alma, you know how how this goes.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, oh yeah, a kid uh forgets their tap shoe and suddenly the whole group is thrown off.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: Right.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: And you've worked for three, four, five months to get that routine ready, and now five minutes before it's time to go on, you're thrown off.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: Well, having a stage manager backstage, having the ability to give support, all of those things made a difference.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: But then as the industry evolved, uh, it was nice to see that we could make and uh make a true impact by making subtle, subtle changes.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: And well, we'll be going into that later.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: But no, I I really brought uh the the uh experiences I had as a performer and then as a stage manager and wanted to integrate that into the competition industry.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: And happily, I mean, everyone uses stage managers now.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, everyone schedules it according to costume changes.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: That was another thing we did.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, and those elements I think can make a difference to where when I hear a performer say, you know what, I really feel good when I perform here.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: I really feel comfortable, I feel not as stressed because they're gonna stress themselves, you know, put that on there.
16:52
SPEAKER_01: I remember feeling that when we went to Star Quest.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, that's great.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
16:57
SPEAKER_03: Okay, I know because yes, you have attended Star Quest with your studio before.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh, right, right.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, there can sometimes be a big disconnect between what the intention of the competition owner can be as a producer on what they hope the experience will be.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: If we can make that connect and what we're intending to do in our mission, have you guys achieved that?
17:18
SPEAKER_00: That's all it's about.
17:20
SPEAKER_03: Yay.
17:21
SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm so, so, so grateful that you were willing to come and spend some time chatting with us on the podcast just because you have been one of the one of the first competitions I would say that, you know, kicked things off in our industry.
17:35
SPEAKER_03: Obviously, there was a competition that you attended before you started Star Quest.
17:40
SPEAKER_03: But I think that you've been around for 30 years now and have obviously had to evolve because I remember growing up at your events, there weren't levels.
17:48
SPEAKER_03: And then I once I became a professional dancer and started judging, then the levels industry, you know, that started being introduced into our competitive dance world.
17:56
SPEAKER_03: But the other fun thing about why I wanted to bring you on is because you're introducing, and we'll talk about this shortly, but we're you're introducing throwback style competition events this season at Star Quest, which m means no levels, which I was like, what?
18:11
SPEAKER_03: This is exciting, full, yeah, full circle.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: Well, it depends on how far you say we're throwing back.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: Because if we threw back, if we threw back all the way to 1993 when we started, you know, you know, and when when Alma was performing, it at the time it would have been 12 and under, 13 and up.
18:26
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, seriously.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: At the time, there would have been uh different categories.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: Contemporary did not even exist at the time.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: That's true.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, so there were a lot of evolutionary things in terms of age ranges, in terms of how things broke broke down.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: And by that I don't mean it's broke down as in broken.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: I mean really in terms of how you're gonna how you're gonna organize it, sort it, and filter the event to make it fair, to make it fair to them.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we're throwing back to to no levels, which will be, you know, one level.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: It'll be feeling the way it felt, Alma, when you when you performed.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: And I I guess we'll get into that when we talk about levels, because I think there was an invisibility.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: I think levels have always existed, just not visibly.
19:08
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, they're not not labeled, but they were there.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Yes, they were always labeled and implied in it and how it changed the perception of a parent in looking at the dancers that were performing.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that's coming.
19:20
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, that's coming.
19:21
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I'm excited.
19:22
SPEAKER_07: I would love to begin by thinking back, put yourself, Alma and Steve, back in 1991, 92, 93.
19:32
SPEAKER_07: Alma, what was what was your studio like?
19:34
SPEAKER_07: What made you decide I want to take my studio to this next event, this next level of competition?
19:41
SPEAKER_07: Because you weren't doing that prior, right?
19:43
SPEAKER_07: You were just having a studio.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: I had just been I had just started building my studio, so I really didn't have enough dancers to uh and they're they weren't at the right level like level as far as their ability level was not quite there yet.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: I started from scratch.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: And I had competed myself.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: So I knew that at one point I was gonna I wanted to do that.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: And why did you want that for your kids?
20:07
SPEAKER_01: I enjoyed it.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: I loved it.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: I loved the feeling of being on that stage, aside from it was just different from recital.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: And I just loved I loved doing it.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: And we went to Las Vegas for nationals because that was the only nationals for that competition.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: And we had been to Las Vegas, and we had to qualify to go.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and really qualify.
20:27
SPEAKER_01: Like really.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: And we qualified to go with one dance, and we took one dance all the way from moving to Las Vegas.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: And it was it was just the best experience of of my life.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: And I think it really shaped how I started thinking about whether I, you know, if I wanted to do that.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: And I think when I went to Las Vegas and I and I competed, I was just starting to teach.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: So it was kind of a crossover for me.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: And um, I had a great mentor, my teacher is a great mentor and still is to me.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: So I'm always grateful for that.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: And I just I wanted my kids to experience that.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: I just I was like biting at the bit, waiting for them to be where they I thought they could be.
21:08
SPEAKER_01: But being a new teacher, I knew nothing.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: Like I was always on the student end.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: So being on the teacher end now, that uh when I first started competing, it was just like, whoa, okay, big, wide, eye-open, like rude awakening of what this is of what this is like and from the teacher end.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: So I appreciated, in a sense, I appreciated not having levels because it made us work harder.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: It made us work harder.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: If we wanted, if we wanted that, we had to get it.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: Like that you compete against all of these kids.
21:42
SPEAKER_07: Steve, can you explain to our listeners who who didn't grow up dancing in the 90s what qualifying for nationals actually meant back when there were no levels?
21:51
SPEAKER_07: And back when you really had to qualify?
21:53
SPEAKER_00: Qualifying for na uh nationals, you always meant that you A would come to the regional, you'd have multiple resources.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Events so it'd be in your city, and then you had to get at least a minimum.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: At the time, it was just like the Olympics gold, silver, and bronze.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: Now the word bronze is not even used.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: Doesn't exist.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: The dirty white doesn't exist.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: And so it was it was gold, gold level dancers, and then at a certain point, a few years into it, it went to high silvers.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: So then we become gold and high silver level dancers.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: So Alma, for example, could bring maybe 30 routines, and it would mean that maybe only a certain number would qualify.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: That was relaxed and opened up because the idea of opportunity and accessibility was an important thing.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: But the other aspect, and you alluded to it, Alma, you said they they wanted to work harder.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: Did I hear that right?
22:42
SPEAKER_00: They wanted to work harder.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: And the whole idea of them being introduced to other dancers of multiple levels at the time was to give them a level of aspiration.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: When you're teaching in the studio, one of the main things you want to do is have your kids in there highly motivated.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: And what competition could do is motivate them.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: And that was a huge thing.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: They go, they go, oh my gosh, I thought I was great.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, look at all these dancers.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: And then they get back in the studio.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying it's easier to teach, but it's it's easier for a child to learn when they are passionate and more committed to it because they want to work and achieve something that they tangibly saw was possible and experienced.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: And that feeling is, I have to say, almost almost magical.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: If you've ever been in the studio where you see the child working really hard and they finally achieve, you know, oh, I finally got a triple pirouette.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh my God, I never thought in my lifetime I'd be able to go beyond a double.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: So I hope that answered your question, Leslie.
23:42
SPEAKER_07: It did.
23:43
SPEAKER_07: Well, because some because like I looked at a website for a new competition the other day, and it literally said, if you come to regionals, you qualify for nationals.
23:51
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
23:52
SPEAKER_07: If you come.
23:52
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
23:53
SPEAKER_07: If you set foot on that stage, you qualify.
23:55
SPEAKER_07: And I was like, that's different.
23:57
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, it shifted.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: It shifted again.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: It was about creating more accessibility to come.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: In fact, um, StarQuest, uh, 15 years ago, I just dropped it.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: I just dropped the eligibility because I've I felt that let a studio come, you know, to whatever regional they want.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: If they can't make it on our date regional, that's fine.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: But they're still welcome to come to nationals because that exposure of seeing so many studios from around the country is is huge.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: And why limit them?
24:25
SPEAKER_03: There was like times when certain competitions had like you could pre-qualify at nationals to dance.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: We did that, yes.
24:33
SPEAKER_03: I don't no, I don't think that really exists much anymore, but that was a thing.
24:37
SPEAKER_03: Whereas like if you decided to like create a dance after you competed at regionals, but you want to perform it at nationals, then there was like the first day of nationals where it was just like pre-qualifying competition.
24:48
SPEAKER_03: I think you still might at that time still had to have scored a certain score to be eligible to, but most people did and most people didn't so but I do remember those days.
24:57
SPEAKER_03: I was a part of that a few times with some random dances at my studio.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: You're right, Courtney, because a lot of them would go, uh, well, I I know I I I believe I can qualify that I should get this hands down based on everything else I've been doing regionally and where I've been placing.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll make it.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no problem.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: They had to pre-qualify.
25:14
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
25:14
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
25:15
SPEAKER_07: Exactly.
25:16
SPEAKER_07: I'm curious.
25:18
SPEAKER_07: This is really just for me, but I think listeners might be interested.
25:21
SPEAKER_07: Steve, back in the 90s, before you had levels, you know, I I think for years there's always been sort of a few little organizations that sort of group together competition owners to be, you know, just colleagues and confidants and things like that, like the ADCC.
25:36
SPEAKER_07: Was there something like that in the 90s where y'all all kind of came together to make decisions or anything?
25:41
SPEAKER_00: In the 90s, it was the wild, wild west.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: Everyone was an island.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: And as a comp owner, uh, because uh even internet was still uh infancy, right?
25:51
SPEAKER_00: And communication was through uh fax or phone.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: And there were a few owners that when I started introduced themselves, but other than that, we kept to ourselves because at the time, starting out, we were a competition and you just felt we were in quote competition with each other.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: That dynamic changed as you as more competitions came on and all that, but was it was a bit lonely.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: So you were all finding your way uh when the brochure, the printed brochure, came out, and you would discover what other people were doing in terms of pricing, in terms of their categories, in terms of their definitions of categories.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: And you're you're trying to think of what's the best way to create opportunity for these dancers and do it fairly and break it up.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: And then it'd be interesting.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: Like if I saw a competition change uh a minor thing, I would really assess whether that was good for us in the industry to do.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: And eventually we would do that.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: I will confess that I introduced platinum because I kept hearing about bronze, and then and then someone else went to like, you know, uh a platinum plus, a high platinum, yeah, silver to high silver and all that.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Because you really want the kids to be motivated.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: For Alma, she's got to have them, you know, wanting to come back from it going, even if I didn't make first place, did I still feel good about it?
27:12
SPEAKER_00: But it was it was, I won't say lonely, but you felt alone and were really not sure if something would work until you got through going through that season.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: And uh, I'll never forget this obviously has nothing to do with levels, but it did uh introduce it.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: You know, what do you do when you have a rule?
27:31
SPEAKER_00: We had a rule, and I remember it was um Rhee and Rennie Gold's studio that came in Massachusetts to the competition, and what they had was a large group of ten kids and nine kids as a small group.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: One of the kids got sick, and so it was nine people performing.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: And the rule was what performs is, meaning that even though you signed up as a large group, if you went on as a small group, that was a small group.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: So it had to change divisions and go into that, right?
27:57
SPEAKER_00: Right.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: However, there was a time limit of four minutes for a large group and only three and a half minutes for a small group, and their routine ran three minutes and 45 seconds.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: I had nothing in the rules to allow for that.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: I had to take points off because the rules had that.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: I remember talking to Reafter that, and we talked and talked, and a month later I said, it came to me, it came to me, I don't know why we introduced extended time.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: Because extended time was originally done not to extend the number for people, but in case a scenario like that happened.
28:33
SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: To have a rule that oppresses is not the way the rules should be.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: They should be guidelines to give us structure.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: And so those kinds of changes we had to discover, Leslie, as we went along.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: And then other comp owners would see that and be able to introduce it in the next year.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh now we can talk to each other and and and vet it and that.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: It's it's so, so much nicer in terms of the environment.
28:57
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
28:57
SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't know if Alma ever experienced any scenarios where the rules tended to work against you.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure there's been quite a few.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: It can happen.
29:08
SPEAKER_01: We've had the missing dancers and we've had the time limit issues.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: And I think the missing dancer is the you know hardest part when you have a a small group of four, and next thing you know it's a trio.
29:20
SPEAKER_01: Right.
29:20
SPEAKER_01: And that's caught way back.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: And sickness.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: I think the sickness part makes a really big difference in re-choreographing.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: Where where should that be?
29:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, so I did like when it kind of changed into announcing that we're missing a dancer from the choreography.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: We didn't have to change anything.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: And the group didn't have to change.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: This is still a small group missing a dancer because she broke her leg yesterday or she's in the bathroom bomb.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: You know, it was never meant to be a trio, it was never meant to be that.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: And I I like that, I like that scenario.
29:55
SPEAKER_03: Me too.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: And it makes the dancers feel better because they're not stressed about about going on stage and knowing that they're either gonna lose points or something, because then they can't focus on what they're doing and and it shows uh it'll show a lot.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: So I think that made all the difference in the world being able to, you know, say that.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: You got a good point there, Alma, because it the most delicate time, I believe, is the the 90 seconds before any routine or dancer goes on stage.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: That's the most delicate time for them because they're physically there, but they've got to have their heads there.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: And that helps you have the ability to take care of them.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: Huge.
30:34
SPEAKER_05: Huge.
30:35
unknown: Yeah.
30:36
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so I want to go.
30:37
SPEAKER_03: We're still living in the 90s for a little while because you can and you kind of mentioned this, Steve, in earlier about how you feel like levels were kind of always there, but not really in your face apparent.
30:51
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
30:51
SPEAKER_03: Because at least from my personal experience, and you also mentioned this back in the day, back in the 90s, but like before the 2000s, there weren't levels.
31:01
SPEAKER_03: Obviously, we know that at this point, everybody, but age divisions did exist, but they started to then evolve as well.
31:08
SPEAKER_03: And I think that that happened before levels happened.
31:12
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
31:12
SPEAKER_03: So it was the age divisions of junior was 12 and under, and 13 and over was senior, and that was it.
31:19
SPEAKER_03: Everybody, this was it.
31:21
SPEAKER_03: There was only two age divisions.
31:23
SPEAKER_03: There are so many people now that are like venting, like, how is it okay that my eight-year-old competes with the 10-year-old?
31:29
SPEAKER_03: It's not okay.
31:31
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, um, I was eight competing with the 12-year-old for overalls.
31:35
SPEAKER_03: Like that's how it was back then.
31:37
SPEAKER_03: And then on top of it, there weren't levels.
31:40
SPEAKER_03: So to me, the way that the industry evolved to start implementing more broken down age divisions, like, you know, introducing the nine to twelve for junior and then the eight and under for petite and 13 to 15 for teen and 15 and over for seniors, like four different age divisions, which now there's more still, you know, some comps have more than four.
32:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the minis, the yeah, exactly.
32:04
SPEAKER_03: But like to me, that was breaking it down by level.
32:07
SPEAKER_03: Like that made sense to me because you're competing more alongside where you should live.
32:11
SPEAKER_03: Your peers.
32:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, your peers, who who you're kind of in class with, you know, and it's easier as a judge now for me as well to know this is what a 12-year-old should be doing.
32:21
SPEAKER_03: This is what a fifth, this is what I expect from a 15-year-old, this is what I expect from an eight-year-old.
32:26
SPEAKER_03: And it was just, it just made sense to me.
32:28
SPEAKER_03: Like that's where the levels happened.
32:30
SPEAKER_03: Anything to add to that, you know, with when it came to age divisions pre-levels.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh, the only thing I can add to it is that one of the things that was discovered would be that because a child is a certain age, what was not taken into consideration was the number of hours a week they would be dancing.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: And what also wasn't taken into consideration or or looked at really at the time, because it's like layers of an onion, would be when a dancer goes on stage, what is their commitment level to being a really, really good dancer?
33:04
SPEAKER_00: In other words, they might be showing up for dance, but they might also be doing other things.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: No judge in the world is going to know that.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: Only the studio owner knows that.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: And so that filter would not exist.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: And so then what would happen, Alma?
33:16
SPEAKER_00: I don't remember you ever doing this, so so you're off the hook on this.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: But a lot of a lot of parents would go to the studio owners at a competition like this, and they would say, How come that eight-year-old is so exceptionally better than anyone else?
33:31
SPEAKER_00: You wouldn't necessarily know that.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: It would be because, well, in reality, that eight-year-old is a rec level dancer.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: You didn't think of that, but the parents saw how huge a gap there was in the performance level.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: And I want to clarify this big time.
33:48
SPEAKER_00: There are two there are two wonderful things that occur in competition.
33:51
SPEAKER_00: One, the studio owner can bring the technical prowess of the dancer out there.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: But more importantly, competition is about the performance aspect of it.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: They are two different skills.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: Learning your technique is the basis, but being able to communicate that as a performer is the important thing.
34:09
SPEAKER_00: And so when that's being introduced, it's the performance skills that really start to be to come on display when you have a dancer that's putting in, let's say, well, my daughter at one point was doing 18, 20 hours a week.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, that person's performance skill level is going to get better because their technique is getting stronger, right?
34:31
SPEAKER_00: But you have other dancers that you can't just assess only because they're technically good.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: Adds another dimension to it.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: And this was never even thought of.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: Why?
34:41
SPEAKER_00: Because, like you said, Courtney, when it was 12 and under, there wasn't much of a gap between an eight-year-old and a 12-year-old.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: But choreography got better, master classes started occurring, the conventions were starting to get the dancers to really, really get stronger technically.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: And that would inspire the studio to bring more creative choreographers in.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: And what this does, it just amps up the quality of the dancer, the technique, the choreography.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: And so it this was inevitable.
35:13
SPEAKER_00: The first transition was, you know, to to go to ages like that, to separate it.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: But even within that, within a junior, for jazz, tap, lyrical, if you guys remember, it was eight-year-olds against eight-year-olds.
35:26
SPEAKER_00: It was nine-year-olds against nine-year-olds.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: It was sliced into that singular age as opposed to an age range.
35:33
SPEAKER_03: And that also depends on how many people are at the event, too, right?
35:36
SPEAKER_03: Because like, you know, I've been to events where there's not enough a mix of the ages within the age division to fill that specific genre category.
35:45
SPEAKER_03: So they can't be broken down.
35:47
SPEAKER_03: But like then growing up, I remember, you know, having 15 or 20 people in just the age 15 lyrical solo division.
35:55
SPEAKER_03: Right.
35:55
SPEAKER_03: You know, so like it just depends on how big the event is and you know who shows up that day, I guess.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
36:02
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: But you had to have that outlet.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: So that was the only other slice and filter that I would add at that point in time.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: Does that sound correct?
36:10
SPEAKER_00: Am I remembering it right, Alma?
36:11
SPEAKER_01: I want to make sure that it's I I remember going from 12 and under and 13.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: I remember that splitting the age group, and it actually felt better, like the kids felt like they were dancing with more of their own people and stuff instead of that large, large gap.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: And I think somewhere in there, novice came into the picture.
36:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh, right, because there was I think somewhere in there too.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: Late 90s there was a novice came in as like, I have never been to a competition before.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
36:43
SPEAKER_01: And then everybody else.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: Right.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: Competitive and novice recreational and novice, not recreational.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: Recreational wasn't there for a long time, but then novice popped in, and then it was like, oh, okay, we've never done this.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're just getting our feet wet, and okay, we don't need to compete against these this powerhouse.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: Right.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: And then they felt a little more comfortable because I'm pretty sure when I started, we popped into there just a couple times.
37:14
SPEAKER_01: And then but it was like, oh yes, we have a small home for a little while.
37:18
SPEAKER_07: Right.
37:19
SPEAKER_07: So you were you were excited when that came around.
37:21
SPEAKER_07: You were like, yes, I was doing that.
37:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because I think when we first started our very first year, somehow we pulled out a high gold.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know how it happened because technically, not there.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh, judges, the judges' critiques on the papers.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: Right.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, there was no voice recordings.
37:44
SPEAKER_01: The judges' critiques all said the same thing we said in class every single time.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: And it was just the over and over and over.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, this.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: So we got a high gold.
37:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm not really sure how, but we did.
37:56
SPEAKER_01: And I think it was by one point.
37:58
SPEAKER_07: And we're the nice judges.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: And it was probably uh five years before we ever hit anything again.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
38:07
SPEAKER_01: Because we competed with the powerhouses, we competed with the there was no level.
38:13
SPEAKER_01: So when novice came in of this, we don't do this all the time.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: Like we don't this is we're still getting our feet wet.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: And we jumped in there and it was like, okay, this this feels like okay, we can do this.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:29
SPEAKER_01: And so I think we we may have we may have jumped in novice or any dancers that hadn't competed before.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: I think by the end of the 90s, I had like two, maybe three groups.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: So our older group that went was not novice, and then the younger groups were.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: And I think today we still we still do that today is our little minis and babies are usually always novice because yeah, you know.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: You know, Alma, you br you bring up a really, really important point, and that's one of the other things that the novice and ultimately rec did.
39:04
SPEAKER_00: I cannot tell you how many times and use the term powerhouse.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: A studio would come, uh a studio owner would call and say, uh, Steve, I'm not coming to you this year.
39:13
SPEAKER_00: And I would say, why?
39:14
SPEAKER_00: And she'd say, because I know the studios that are in this area, and I will get slaughtered.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if that's a good thing for them to feel or not.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: I I to be concerned about your studio because you got to be worried about the kids, you know, again, being motivated.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: And so the really, really amazing thing would be novice introduced the ability for a studio to come in that was not a powerhouse, that would not have to worry about being slaughtered, and still get to experience competition.
39:46
SPEAKER_00: And then just like the original experience at a nationals where you see better kids, you're not competing against them, but you're still seeing them perform.
39:54
SPEAKER_00: Right.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: And that can still help you.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: And there were so many studios that were out there just starting out like you you were, Alma, and you know, building building your dancers and letting them develop.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: And they might be three to five years away from being, I won't say a powerhouse, but really feeling that they can be contenders.
40:12
SPEAKER_00: This gave them the opportunity to see those performances and again inspire them back at the studio instead of going and going, I've lost before I even got on the stage.
40:21
SPEAKER_00: Right.
40:22
SPEAKER_00: That was a horrible feeling to hear.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: And that's what the parents were consistently telling the studio owners and then the studio owners sharing with us.
40:30
SPEAKER_00: And that's why that that came about to create more accessibility.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: And I think it was a great, great thing because that's what got, you know, going into the 2000s, that's what I think catapulted the industry.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: It would have stayed the same if it was only the powerhouse studios.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: This allowed a whole new group of studios to come in.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, you hit on the head, Alma.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: It's what a deal.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: And another another part that I really enjoyed for some of my, you know, my dancers that were now motivated and wanted to do solos, but they're scared to death, is some places have just novice solo.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: Like I've competed before, I've done all this, I can be in this group and do well, but oh my gosh, I've never danced by myself on stage at a competition.
41:20
SPEAKER_01: And seeing so there's some places that will have a novice solo category.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: And my kids love it because they can go get their feet wet at a solo and not feel like they're defeated before they get there.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: Because they know there's going to be 35 lyrical solos in the teen division, you know, at least 35, you know.
41:41
SPEAKER_01: At least.
41:42
SPEAKER_01: So it gives them a chance to go get their feet wet and see, do I want to keep doing solos?
41:47
SPEAKER_01: Do I want to do this?
41:49
SPEAKER_01: Or and I've had some that'd be like, nope, not doing that again.
41:52
SPEAKER_01: I'll stick with my groups.
41:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm comfortable.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: This is where I feel like I can shine my best.
41:57
SPEAKER_01: And some have just not done so.
41:59
SPEAKER_01: They still do them at recital.
42:01
SPEAKER_01: I know when they're older, but they they've just competing a solo.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: It's stressful.
42:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah.
42:09
SPEAKER_01: Some of them ate it right up and just went and did titles and did all that.
42:14
SPEAKER_03: I don't know how I did it.
42:15
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I get I said this before on the podcast.
42:18
SPEAKER_03: Like, there have been times in my adult professional career where like part of my duty as a teacher at some events is like, you have to do a solo at the at the show.
42:26
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I am not a solo dancer anymore.
42:28
SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's completely and I'm now a professional ensemble dancer.
42:33
SPEAKER_03: Like I feel for these kids and they get me.
42:36
SPEAKER_03: It's true though.
42:37
SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm not sure what jobs are.
42:40
SPEAKER_03: Right.
42:40
SPEAKER_03: That's what jobs are.
42:41
SPEAKER_07: But jobs are.
42:42
SPEAKER_07: Jobs are not a solo.
42:43
SPEAKER_07: Jobs are in the back corner kicking your face being tree number four.
42:46
SPEAKER_07: Like, right.
42:47
SPEAKER_07: You know, so like no wonder people feel more comfortable being tree number four.
42:50
SPEAKER_07: Right.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: It's so funny because all you guys had your own careers.
42:54
SPEAKER_00: You had a career until you were 18.
42:56
SPEAKER_00: You had a competition career.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: I mean, these dancers have spent so many hours.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: It's like high school, it's it's an interruption for me.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: It's it's you know, they were like, yeah, there are times you're just exhausted, you know, coming in on a Monday and the rest of the high school, your high school friends are going, What's wrong with you?
43:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: It's Monday.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like what you do all weekend.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: I was just at a comp yeah, it's like, well.
43:20
SPEAKER_03: I was winning first place at a competition.
43:22
SPEAKER_03: I had 20 costume changes and exhausted, you know, in the math class.
43:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: I was there from 7 a.m.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: until 11 o'clock.
43:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm pleased.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: And then it was awards.
43:32
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
43:34
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
43:35
SPEAKER_00: That's a podcast done to itself.
43:38
SPEAKER_03: Exactly, exactly.
43:39
SPEAKER_03: Okay, writing that down.
43:40
SPEAKER_00: Writing that down.
43:42
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
43:47
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43:51
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44:01
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44:02
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44:05
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45:08
SPEAKER_07: So talk to us about I we had to get here at some point.
45:11
SPEAKER_07: Talk to us about the intermediate level because you know I think we can all very much agree accessibility is important.
45:17
SPEAKER_07: It was realized early on, you know, things evolved to allow many kinds of studios to come to a competition.
45:23
SPEAKER_07: And then for some reason, now we have this middle level, which I think based on I work for a dance competition, so I can see the dance bug.
45:31
SPEAKER_07: It is intermediate.
45:32
SPEAKER_07: Everybody at this competition is entering in the intermediate level.
45:36
SPEAKER_07: Nobody's entering competitive.
45:37
SPEAKER_07: You got a couple people and novice, and intermediate is like 80% of the kids.
45:41
SPEAKER_07: Tell me about what happened when we started intermediate levels and why.
45:45
SPEAKER_03: And with that, can we also say when this happened?
45:48
SPEAKER_03: When was this introduced timeline-wise?
45:50
SPEAKER_03: Because I want to know.
45:52
SPEAKER_03: I don't actually know what you I remember the two.
45:54
SPEAKER_07: I don't remember when intermediate.
45:56
SPEAKER_03: I remember the two.
45:57
SPEAKER_03: We and we've determined that there was like a non-competitive level and a competitive level at a time.
46:02
SPEAKER_03: And we all seemed like that worked out pretty well.
46:05
SPEAKER_03: So when did that intermediate level get introduced into the industry?
46:09
SPEAKER_03: Do you know, Steve?
46:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can tell you the timeline for Star Quest and where we were in that curve.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: At 2005, we added recreational, and we had seen about four or five comps that had introduced recreational the year before.
46:23
SPEAKER_00: Because remember at that time, as I said, you were an island, you found out.
46:27
SPEAKER_00: And we had been hearing about it and been debating it.
46:29
SPEAKER_00: So it was 2005.
46:30
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
46:31
SPEAKER_00: So what is that?
46:32
SPEAKER_00: 18 years ago?
46:33
SPEAKER_06: Wow.
46:33
SPEAKER_06: That was in college.
46:34
SPEAKER_06: That makes sense.
46:34
SPEAKER_06: Why I don't remember that.
46:35
SPEAKER_00: 19 years ago, 2005.
46:37
SPEAKER_00: In uh about five years later, around 2010, we changed that name.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: Everyone decided to not use the word recreational because now, just like bronze in terms of awards, it started to have a negative feel at the time.
46:51
SPEAKER_00: So we changed it to New Star, and everyone had their own inventive words, but it was still recreational.
46:56
SPEAKER_00: Around 2012, around 2010 to 2012, that intermediate level was starting to be added.
47:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
47:05
SPEAKER_00: And we did it in 2013.
47:08
SPEAKER_00: So we had what we called select, then classic, and then at the time it was New Star, but now, separate from New Star in 2014, we added, we called it Nova.
47:19
SPEAKER_00: And this happens more with younger kids, you know, like with the minis.
47:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, you you can't you how can you call a mini a select?
47:26
SPEAKER_00: They they don't have the technique.
47:28
SPEAKER_00: You can't do it.
47:28
SPEAKER_00: And are they really intermediate?
47:30
SPEAKER_00: They they aren't really.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: But if you just call them recreational, even though they're taking a lot of class in that, there was yet another split, and we called that Nova.
47:40
SPEAKER_00: But it's just like the ages, slicing them up.
47:43
SPEAKER_00: And you have to do the same thing with your dancers, but you hit on a really probably one of the toughest things.
47:50
SPEAKER_00: The what comp owners at times have called the potential dumbing down of the dancer.
47:57
SPEAKER_00: We go to that intermediate thing.
47:59
SPEAKER_00: You'd think people would aspire to go higher and then higher, but I don't think of them as going lower.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: The word I'm going to use, and Alma, you you touched on it without really saying it with your soloists.
48:13
SPEAKER_00: They could go out as a recreational solo.
48:17
SPEAKER_00: And the word I'll use is because it was safe.
48:20
SPEAKER_00: It's safe to go out there because you know the judge knows the judge's expectation clearly knows you're out there, you're testing the waters, you're not really a select or classic level dancer.
48:33
SPEAKER_00: You're going out there and you're gonna you're gonna test the waters, and that eliminates a lot of stress for them to feel safe.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: And I think the levels do that, they make you feel safe.
48:43
SPEAKER_00: So, hey, instead of do I want to be potentially 13th or 14th in select, or would I rather be second in classic?
48:51
SPEAKER_00: And I think that kind of thinking comes into play.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm not saying you think that way, Alma, but I know studio owners have different thoughts.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'd be curious on how you looked at that.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: But those are the dates, Courtney, of the.
49:04
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
49:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that makes sense because I didn't start judging.
49:07
SPEAKER_03: That would have been a break when we started judging.
49:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I didn't start judging until like 20, I think my first time I judged was like 2011.
49:13
SPEAKER_03: 11.
49:13
SPEAKER_03: Then I went on tour and then I came back 2013.
49:16
SPEAKER_03: So that makes sense.
49:17
SPEAKER_03: But I I do remember when I started getting into the and I was like, what is going on?
49:23
SPEAKER_03: Like I didn't I grew up in this world.
49:25
SPEAKER_03: I took a hiatus as a pro, like, you know, went to be a pro for a minute, and now there's it's completely different world.
49:31
SPEAKER_03: Like it just felt so different when I, you know, got on the other side of the table in many ways, but then also just even in how the events were, you know, what was happening at the events.
49:40
SPEAKER_00: And what you don't even know, Courtney, is chicken or the egg.
49:43
SPEAKER_00: I mean, think of this, Leslie.
49:45
SPEAKER_00: Whose idea was it?
49:46
SPEAKER_00: Right.
49:46
SPEAKER_00: Whose idea was introduce levels?
49:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm telling you, I'm not saying it was the parents' idea, but yeah, picture the parents going to the studio owners saying, quote, this doesn't feel fair.
49:55
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
49:56
SPEAKER_00: Even though these are eight-year-olds or 12-year-olds against each other, it doesn't feel fair.
50:00
SPEAKER_00: They give us the information, right?
50:03
SPEAKER_00: Right?
50:03
SPEAKER_00: Because they're sharing it with us, they're they're frustrated.
50:06
SPEAKER_00: And the problem is, just like any rule that doesn't work for you, it didn't feel safe.
50:11
SPEAKER_00: It didn't feel like there was opportunity.
50:13
SPEAKER_00: And so I'd love to say that that any particular comp owner is uh being brilliant and thinking of it, but no, we're listening, we're hearing what you're saying.
50:23
SPEAKER_07: And well, and that's the brilliance of the competition owners.
50:27
SPEAKER_07: Well, you're listening.
50:28
SPEAKER_07: If you don't listen, your business doesn't succeed, you know.
50:30
SPEAKER_00: On behalf of all comp owners, thank you.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: Yes, we do believe that we do believe we we are listening and we are doing our best.
50:38
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes doing our best is not gonna get get us a hundred percent there.
50:42
SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
50:43
SPEAKER_00: We'll shoot for the moon.
50:44
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, we'll get past the trees.
50:46
SPEAKER_00: So that's all we can do.
50:47
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that's that's a tricky part.
50:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think that I think that middle level was our home for quite a while.
50:57
SPEAKER_01: We hung out there and as we were growing, at the same time, we were growing as teachers as well.
51:04
SPEAKER_01: Technically, we weren't there yet.
51:07
SPEAKER_01: We were the ones that kept, you know, point your toes, spot your turns, you know, the same old, same old, same old.
51:13
SPEAKER_01: Like as a teacher, I needed to, I needed that to stop.
51:18
SPEAKER_01: So I had to do my work, my teachers had to do their work.
51:21
SPEAKER_01: Like when we went to competition, I need those critiques to stop.
51:26
SPEAKER_01: And I had to like like my my older group, I make them compete in the higher division.
51:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you've been doing this a while, you're not going to settle here.
51:36
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna do that one, and you're gonna work harder to get there.
51:40
SPEAKER_01: My intermediate group, I will put them in intermediate because they're not there yet, but they're not novice or recreational.
51:47
SPEAKER_01: They're here, they put in the hours, they're just not there yet.
51:51
SPEAKER_01: And I think so many there's so many factors.
51:54
SPEAKER_01: There's so many factors in this.
51:56
SPEAKER_01: There's your studio demographics, like the type of people we have come here.
52:01
SPEAKER_01: We don't have a hundred-member team.
52:04
SPEAKER_01: You know, how I have created my team is more well-rounded, I believe, where I require them all to compete in tap, jazz, and ballet, like lyrical.
52:13
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't say you get to opt out on tap because it's not your favorite.
52:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, if you want to be on my team, you have to do this.
52:19
SPEAKER_01: And so it makes my team smaller, which makes things a little different.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: I also am a firm believer that not everybody gets a trophy, and that I think does not go over well with a lot of people.
52:32
SPEAKER_01: I grew up with one, two, three.
52:34
SPEAKER_01: You might get a fourth and fifth little honorable mention if there's enough people, but it's one, two, three, and that's it.
52:40
SPEAKER_01: You don't went home empty-handed.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: And I think society, and I might I might not get a lot of likes for this.
52:47
SPEAKER_01: Like society has just evolved into everybody has to just be happy.
52:51
SPEAKER_01: And we're not teaching our kids to learn how to lose gracefully.
52:55
SPEAKER_01: We're not teaching our parents to let your children develop that that process.
53:01
SPEAKER_01: Like they do not have know how to lose.
53:04
SPEAKER_01: Right.
53:04
SPEAKER_01: The coping skills aren't there.
53:06
SPEAKER_01: They the coping they're sh zero.
53:08
SPEAKER_01: There's their coping skills in knowing how to um receive an award gracefully and go home and not say, Wow, so did it, did it, did, did it just the levels are great.
53:20
SPEAKER_01: I love the opportunity, but the balance, like I think it has to come with a balance of how we're teaching the kids.
53:28
SPEAKER_01: You know, the we've competed in the intermediate level against kids that I know as a teacher, they're not intermediate.
53:36
SPEAKER_01: Right.
53:36
SPEAKER_01: Because they're they're pulling tricks that are way above what intermediate is.
53:42
SPEAKER_01: So I think, and I I can't even imagine what it's like on your end, Steve, trying to like navigate all the how do you tell who's this and who's that, because you're taking the studio owner's word for it.
53:56
SPEAKER_01: And so I think I wrote in my notes as I was looking through some of this is how do we actually police that in a way that's not policing, you know?
54:05
SPEAKER_07: Well, and I love what you said, just as a studio owner, like your your perspective of once I hear your critiques come back and they're not saying A, B, and C, then we move forward.
54:16
SPEAKER_07: But until you hear your critiques coming back, not mentioning your unpointed toes, not mentioning your not high releve, then we're staying here.
54:23
SPEAKER_07: And I think that's a really honest way to look at it.
54:26
SPEAKER_07: Because if they're doing the things you're asking them to do, they can do more.
54:29
SPEAKER_07: But if they can't do the things you're asking them to do, they they they need to keep working on what they're doing.
54:34
SPEAKER_01: Right.
54:35
SPEAKER_01: The only thing is they're settling right there.
54:37
SPEAKER_01: They're just gonna stay right there because because kids and society is really changing a lot right now.
54:45
SPEAKER_01: And the last I would say 10 years, they're just happy right there because they're being awarded for it.
54:50
SPEAKER_01: Right.
54:51
SPEAKER_01: Right.
54:51
SPEAKER_07: They're like, I can do a double pirouette, not on a full releve, and it's fine because I got around.
54:55
SPEAKER_01: And I got first and I got first.
54:58
SPEAKER_01: That's it, and I got first.
54:59
SPEAKER_01: So I'm just gonna stay right here.
55:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
55:02
SPEAKER_01: And I exactly.
55:04
SPEAKER_01: And I I almost want to go back to the 90s where, and I always tell the kids that I'm like, see that that that first place, like that was earned, right?
55:13
SPEAKER_01: And that got me to Nationals.
55:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah Las Vegas, the one number five.
55:19
SPEAKER_01: So I think I think it's really important that studio owners set their standards as well, not based on what's everybody else, but like follow your own instincts and follow your own gut of what you want to create.
55:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, and if it means you have to teach, you have to teach your kids those lessons, then then you do.
55:41
SPEAKER_01: And and I found I found that it's actually working for me.
55:45
SPEAKER_01: And the kids are motivated and they're like, I want that.
55:49
SPEAKER_01: And I just I just had a student yesterday say, I want, I want to register for a title.
55:54
SPEAKER_01: It's your first year doing this.
55:55
SPEAKER_01: Hello.
55:58
SPEAKER_01: Because she went to a convention and felt like you know, she just she didn't win anything though.
56:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and she didn't win anything.
56:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that's what I want.
56:05
SPEAKER_01: Right.
56:05
SPEAKER_01: I want you to be inspired, and you didn't have to win anything without a prize.
56:10
SPEAKER_01: Be inspired without a prize.
56:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:12
SPEAKER_01: So I think this, I think there's a balance there that is is needed.
56:16
SPEAKER_01: But I liked, I enjoy like I like novice, I like the middle level.
56:21
SPEAKER_01: We hung out, we've hung out in all the levels, and it's knowing that where your kids should be and and really trusting that the figuring out because there are studios that don't do it, and we all we all know it.
56:33
SPEAKER_03: Well, there's studios that like wanna that wanna live in the middle level so they can advertise that they won first place so it looks on social media like a business thing, like a business marketing opportunity, and we can say we're we're we're world champion, we're national champions, but never specify what level.
56:51
SPEAKER_03: And at the same time, like I think it's good and bad.
56:53
SPEAKER_03: Cause like obviously that's an achievement.
56:55
SPEAKER_03: You won first place at nationals or wherever.
56:58
SPEAKER_03: But also, if you're not saying like what level, then you're kind of telling everybody, it's kind of like it's false advertising.
57:04
SPEAKER_03: It's yeah, it's kind of because like if I was a mom, if I was a dance mom going to bring my kid, doing the research, trying to find a studio, and I see on social media that they won first place, but they didn't say what level, I'm thinking immediately, wow, they must be spectacular.
57:18
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, they're awesome.
57:19
SPEAKER_03: But then I find out that they just compete in the middle level only and they kind of are like, you know, preventing these dancers from progressing and really valuing like the quality training and really giving them, not saying intermediate dancers don't have that, but I also think that if a studio doesn't want to make the that progress and continue to push and keep elevating to the next highest level, then we're just gonna kind of stay at, okay, well, we're just intermediate dancers and we're okay with that.
57:44
SPEAKER_03: And I'm and I don't know, I think that studios should want to be, like we said, like want to keep progressing and have those goals.
57:50
SPEAKER_03: And, you know, maybe there should be, like, maybe there could be some type of rule down the road that's like, once you hit a certain age, or once I that's the hard part.
57:58
SPEAKER_03: The ages are hard.
57:59
SPEAKER_03: But like maybe if you maybe if you've competed for X amount of years, then you have to compete at this level or something.
58:05
SPEAKER_03: Like, I think there just needs to be, I don't know, it's just so hard.
58:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, the frustrations, one of the biggest frustrations that goes on is, you know, talent teaching and geography.
58:16
SPEAKER_00: If you go to a place, and I'm gonna actually say the area, if you go to Minneapolis, I can tell you, I can tell you that the intermediate level at Minneapolis would be select level in a lot of other cities.
58:30
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's true.
58:31
SPEAKER_00: And so now take the intermediate dancers that are it truly intermediate there and how high the skill level is in select.
58:37
SPEAKER_00: And now some of those studios go to a Vegas Nationals or go to, you know, go to different nationals around the country, one in Galveston, one here in that.
58:47
SPEAKER_00: And they have entered in intermediate, they've done their regional and intermediate, and now they're up against some other studios that are in in regions that are geographically not as challenged.
59:00
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of that doesn't imply that the teaching is bad or the talent is bad.
59:04
SPEAKER_00: What it implies is the opportunity for the dancers and their ability to get up to that higher level and having been exposed to what that higher level is, now they're suddenly going, they're coming to us as a comp owner, going, wait a minute, these are not intermediate dancers, these are select level dancers.
59:21
SPEAKER_06: Right, right.
59:22
SPEAKER_00: However, they were compared to another scene.
59:26
SPEAKER_00: Um you you've got that that level of filtering that goes on.
59:29
SPEAKER_00: And of course, the judge doesn't know this.
59:31
SPEAKER_00: Right because the judge should know the geography of where the person, where the studio came from.
59:35
SPEAKER_00: And you've got another thing, which is the time.
59:38
SPEAKER_00: The dancers, Alma, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but but but the way I understand it is you're putting all your routines together now.
59:44
SPEAKER_00: They're all getting put together from September through December and hopefully being polished, you know, the the the choreographers come in, they come in in the fall, they get all done.
59:53
SPEAKER_00: That's why we don't have competition.
59:54
SPEAKER_00: That's why you can have conventions and have them teaching.
59:57
SPEAKER_00: So by the beginning of February, these dances are ready.
1:00:01
SPEAKER_00: And if you go to, let's say, four events, one in February, one in March, one in April, one in May, can you tell me that that group, intermediate, that performs in May, is the same group, same kids, but with all that extra time, they've been competing, they've been getting the judges' critiques, they've been working on it.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_00: And in the studio, just as students, they are, you'd like to think, they're progressing.
1:00:26
SPEAKER_05: They're getting better.
1:00:27
SPEAKER_00: So the choreographer is challenging them in September.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_00: Is it as much of a challenge in May?
1:00:33
SPEAKER_00: Because if they challenge them too much, they're gonna fail in February.
1:00:37
SPEAKER_00: The point is, some of these intermediates may start to, I won't say age out, but they start to, in terms of technique, get that much better.
1:00:47
SPEAKER_00: And suddenly an intermediate routine that Alma has presented to us in February, now another competition in May is saying, hey, the judge is going, hey, wait a minute, wait a minute.
1:00:57
SPEAKER_00: Uh that's kind of a good thing, but uh a good thing in terms of them growing.
1:01:02
SPEAKER_00: But how does a comp filter that?
1:01:05
SPEAKER_00: It's it's a difficulty between the studio owner, and this is assuming the studio owner is doing this idealistically, the way you're speaking.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_00: And we know that there's others that don't.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_00: So these factors are what make it so extremely difficult, you know, with us wrapping our head around how to objectify it.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_00: Like you mentioned, Courtney, if we did it by age, can we do it by age?
1:01:28
SPEAKER_00: Can we do it by geography?
1:01:30
SPEAKER_00: Can we do it by from beginning of the season to the end of the season?
1:01:33
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I remember back in the wild, wild west in the 90s, there were some comps that did birth date, the age of the dancer as of the first day of that competition.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_00: And others and others that the did the age as of January 1st.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_03: And you have to carry a birth certificate with you.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and now we're normalized, we're normalized to everyone do it in January.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_00: That's a nice to help.
1:01:56
SPEAKER_00: But if you remember, because people, what, they grow up.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_00: So if you were halfway, you know, if I'm seven and a half, right, that would mean I bump up and I'm now dancing with eight-year-olds.
1:02:09
SPEAKER_00: But now what we say is We've had that.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_00: You bump down.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_00: If you're seven and a half, you're still seven, no matter what.
1:02:16
SPEAKER_00: These kinds of things.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_00: I mean, what do you do?
1:02:18
SPEAKER_00: You're also seven, and then you're eight eight years old.
1:02:21
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_00: The day of the nationals.
1:02:23
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_00: That's why January 1st worked really well.
1:02:27
SPEAKER_03: And that's things you like evolve.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_03: Like that's the evolution of how it's all worked out, just the learning.
1:02:31
SPEAKER_00: But all these filters, yeah, they come, they come into play.
1:02:34
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I just tell my kids that's just that's how it is.
1:02:37
SPEAKER_01: And we just have to respect that that's how it is.
1:02:39
SPEAKER_01: And I tell them every competition is different, and that's how it is, period.
1:02:44
SPEAKER_01: Like you don't, these are their rules, they're not mine, and we follow their rules.
1:02:50
SPEAKER_01: And if it means that in February you're competing as a junior, but in May you're competing as a teen because it wasn't in, you know, when it wasn't January 1st, when it was the first day of the competition, we have had that happen.
1:03:03
SPEAKER_01: And it's like that's the way it is, and that's teaching the kids that you don't get to create all the rules, you don't get to create all the boundaries.
1:03:10
SPEAKER_01: If you want to compete, we compete with the way that they have it.
1:03:14
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:03:14
SPEAKER_01: And we respect that.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of that has gotten lost.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_07: Totally.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_07: Because everybody kind of wants it their way, right?
1:03:22
SPEAKER_01: They want it their way so that they are happy and they and I I just I can't even imagine the I've had people, I'm like, don't you dare call the competition.
1:03:32
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
1:03:33
SPEAKER_01: If you call the competition, you are off my like a mom.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_01: Like if a mom calls a competition, oh no, tries to call.
1:03:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can't even imagine that.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_03: So everybody, mom's out there listening.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_03: Don't please do not call the competitions.
1:03:48
SPEAKER_01: I bet they do.
1:03:49
SPEAKER_01: I bet they do.
1:03:49
SPEAKER_01: You know, they can know this.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_00: I can tell you what the conversation's like when they call.
1:03:54
SPEAKER_00: Because it's fewer, it's it's like, you know, thank you for letting me know what studio you're with.
1:03:57
SPEAKER_00: Okay, you're with you're with Alma Lee.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's great.
1:04:00
SPEAKER_00: Up in Maine, that's that's awesome.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for letting me know.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_00: What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna give her a call and I'm gonna let her know that you express this concern and it will all go through her.
1:04:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because it's important.
1:04:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it takes care of it, you know, because uh I think the studio owner should know because there's so much you guys know that the parent just doesn't know.
1:04:22
SPEAKER_00: That's why you're there acting as an agent on their behalf.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_00: Because there's elements in terms of how you can present it to us uh and everything.
1:04:30
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's been part of what has helped competitions, you know, introduce all these elements.
1:04:35
SPEAKER_00: And by the way, the fact that we're talking about levels 2.0 is as tough as it is and as frustrating as it is, and it is frustrating, it really is a very frustrating thing.
1:04:45
SPEAKER_00: It's really great that over the years, for me, I could say 30 years, we have evolved to the point, the industry has evolved to the point that we don't talk and worry about the ages as much, we don't worry about the categories as much, we don't worry about the time as much.
1:04:58
SPEAKER_00: You know, we're really focusing more on the levels.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_00: It's really gotten to be instead of having to worry about extended time, instead of having to worry about this, that, and this.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_00: It's really about the levels.
1:05:09
SPEAKER_00: And it's so it's it's getting more focused in on just this one area.
1:05:16
SPEAKER_00: If we could just solve it.
1:05:18
SPEAKER_07: I know that I think that's almost a beautiful thing, but then it's like, well, shouldn't we be thinking about the time limit too?
1:05:25
SPEAKER_07: Like, I don't know.
1:05:26
SPEAKER_03: There really is so much.
1:05:27
SPEAKER_03: I think at the end of the day that I've said multiple times on the podcast, and Omla, you just said it, is is that just follow the rules, everybody.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_03: Just follow the rules.
1:05:37
SPEAKER_03: Like, I cannot stress it enough.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_03: And like like you mentioned, Steve, about the whole like regional thing, and as far as different regions have different, you know, higher calibers than others, and like that is a thousand percent true.
1:05:50
SPEAKER_03: And then also you have a judge who's flying in from wherever, and they might have never seen this caliber or they might have higher expectations than the judge sitting next to them, things like that.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_03: But I think at the end of the day of just make sure studio owners out there, when you're registering, follow the rules.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_03: Don't do it for the win.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_03: Follow the rules.
1:06:08
SPEAKER_03: If the rules say that you train between the these amount of hours, if you don't fall into that, that doesn't mean you put your dancers in the level below.
1:06:15
SPEAKER_03: That means you put them where they belong.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_03: Like there's rules for a reason for the structure that you were talking about, Steve.
1:06:20
SPEAKER_03: Like it would be a free-for-all if there were zero rules.
1:06:23
SPEAKER_03: But like so many rules are getting relaxed.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_03: And I can't speak for Star Quest.
1:06:28
SPEAKER_03: And I it just sounds to me that you guys really enforce your rules, which is amazing.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_03: I wish more competitions would because there's so many people just slipping through the cracks.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_03: And then when they slip through the cracks once without following a rule, like even something as simple as like safety at an event and like the types of props that are entering the stage, and you know, not paying for the extra time.
1:06:48
SPEAKER_03: And then that messes up the whole schedule for everyone.
1:06:51
SPEAKER_03: When you added two extra minutes to your dance, like, you know, just little rules like that.
1:06:57
SPEAKER_03: Same applies to the levels.
1:06:58
SPEAKER_03: Like it's making our job harder as judges to score you accurately.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_03: It's unfair to the rest of the competition.
1:07:04
SPEAKER_03: Like, I just that's I think that's the hardest part is the policing of it.
1:07:07
SPEAKER_03: And if everyone were was just being honest, then we'd be okay.
1:07:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:07:11
SPEAKER_00: And the real the thing they should focus on, really, in my opinion, is expectations.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_00: I use that one simple word.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you follow the rules and set the expectations correctly for your studio because you know your kids as a studio owner, the studio owner knows the kids.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_00: We we know them the way an aunt or an uncle knows uh the kids as they're growing up, like a family reunion every year.
1:07:37
SPEAKER_00: We get to see them growing up.
1:07:38
SPEAKER_00: That's what I saw with you, Courtney.
1:07:39
SPEAKER_00: I got to see you know from 10 years old on up, you know.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh so it's kind of like a little uh reunion there, but it's the studio owner who's gonna be able to talk to the kids and set their expectations before they get there and based on what's going on at the event.
1:07:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying we don't want feedback, we should still get feedback.
1:07:57
SPEAKER_00: That's how we innovate and and evolve.
1:08:00
SPEAKER_00: But you made it clear, Alma, that that's what what you're doing.
1:08:03
SPEAKER_00: You tell them even when they're gonna do a solo, you're setting their expectation.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_00: Hey, you know, making sure.
1:08:08
SPEAKER_00: If they could do both, wouldn't that be wonderful?
1:08:11
SPEAKER_00: Rules and have an expectation.
1:08:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
1:08:13
SPEAKER_01: I also like I also like uh the uh is an I don't know, it's a bump rule where if the judges feel if if the judges feel like you do not belong at this level and you belong higher, I wouldn't say bump down, but if they and we have had it happen to us, but it's also how we explain to the kids.
1:08:33
SPEAKER_01: They're like, why did I not do as well?
1:08:35
SPEAKER_01: I mean, hmm, be I mean, we put them where we thought they should be, but if they did an astounding job and like the judges thought they should be in the higher level and they they scored them that way and moved them, we we would explain it like they saw more they saw they felt that the compliment belonged.
1:08:52
SPEAKER_07: Right, that's a compliment.
1:08:53
SPEAKER_07: That's a huge compliment.
1:08:55
SPEAKER_01: And to rank lower in a higher level is better than higher in a lower level.
1:09:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's how we teach them, that's how we tell our kids.
1:09:06
SPEAKER_01: We don't try to be like, well, you need to be this, you know, it's not you're gonna be in the intermediate level because we want you to be standing up there with the top 10 at the end of the day.
1:09:16
SPEAKER_01: I mean, everybody wants that, but I would love for you to be standing up there when it's the higher level.
1:09:21
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_01: And if you scored with the higher level and that's where you placed, and like be proud of that.
1:09:28
SPEAKER_01: Don't be proud that they thought you deserved to be there.
1:09:31
SPEAKER_03: A point with that is that most times when that does happen, which is rare, and honestly, like a lot of the comps that I work for that have levels don't really tell us that we can bump.
1:09:41
SPEAKER_03: I will say that.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_03: So I wish that more competitions would be like, absolutely, if you think someone deserves to be bumped up, but there is a difference between whatever the highest adjudication is.
1:09:50
SPEAKER_03: Like, let's say we're talking intermediate level and we're watching a dance and it's really, really great.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_03: There is a difference between a dance that is going to get the highest adjudication in intermediate and a dance that needs to be bumped to the next level.
1:10:02
SPEAKER_03: There are two different like correct, you can still get the highest that just because you get the highest adjudication doesn't mean that you don't belong in intermediate.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_03: You still might be an intermediate level, but then there's those, you know, other dances that are just truly a beyond that.
1:10:18
SPEAKER_03: Like we can tell you are ready.
1:10:21
SPEAKER_03: Like there are so many times when my critique says I'm like, you are ready for the next level.
1:10:25
SPEAKER_03: Please, you know, please do the next competition.
1:10:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_03: I even say at the next event, at your next event, schedule you, you know, put yourself, compete there.
1:10:32
SPEAKER_03: And I promise you, you will do equally as well.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_03: Because most of the time, those dances, if we are eligible to bump them, they still place in the top 10, everybody.
1:10:41
SPEAKER_03: I'm not even joking.
1:10:42
SPEAKER_03: Like they might be a few ranks lower, but at least they're competing against who they should be competing alongside and not dominating a level that they don't belong in.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_00: And they can also understand it's at some of the bigger events, uh, most of our events are you know fairly good size.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_00: We will do a top 15th in some instances, or even depending on the number of solos uh with teens, for example, we've done a top 20.
1:11:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, uh there should be recognition, you know, even with that that many dancers.
1:11:10
SPEAKER_00: It's it's nothing wrong with being 18th.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_03: Out of like 150, out of 150, yeah, it's 18th any day.
1:11:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:11:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
1:11:19
SPEAKER_00: So um it's it's not a thing.
1:11:22
SPEAKER_00: And the other thing that we offer, that's one thing you can always ask for, Alma, and like any of the studio owners can know this when they come to Star Questes.
1:11:29
SPEAKER_00: We we will let you know where you would have placed.
1:11:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, like let's say you're an intermediate or that you went to select.
1:11:35
SPEAKER_00: We'll let you know where you would have placed if you go bump up, uh, where you would have placed in classic also.
1:11:41
SPEAKER_03: Oh, so if like you tell them about if they swap the level or something.
1:11:45
SPEAKER_00: The score.
1:11:46
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's not that we do that.
1:11:47
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to, I don't want to mislead here, but uh, you know, we see a routine and it gets bumped, right?
1:11:53
SPEAKER_00: And of course, that kid only gets 18th.
1:11:55
SPEAKER_00: You know, the score once it's down is a an uh an objective thing.
1:11:59
SPEAKER_00: It's no longer subjective.
1:12:00
SPEAKER_00: The critique is subjective, but the number is objective.
1:12:03
SPEAKER_00: And so that number is stays there, just like your birthday, right?
1:12:07
SPEAKER_00: And what that number means in the select level compared to everyone else is a certain placement, right?
1:12:14
SPEAKER_00: But there's nothing wrong with saying, you know, if it was intermediate, it would have been this.
1:12:19
SPEAKER_00: And just them, just them knowing that.
1:12:21
SPEAKER_00: Imagine you can go back to your student and say, yeah, yeah, you got 18th, but that's what this was when you started.
1:12:27
SPEAKER_00: Now you see you're you're because these are people that are now on the cus.
1:12:31
SPEAKER_00: These are kids that are now growing and going there, whether it's because of, like I said, time, you know, or where they are in terms of geography, even the event you go to this year in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, you might have a lot of different studios you're up against next year.
1:12:46
SPEAKER_00: So that comes into play with all this, in spite of levels.
1:12:51
SPEAKER_03: You know what else is kind of interesting uh when we've been talking about just like how you brought up the scenario of like a studio saying, I'm not coming to your event because I'm gonna get creamed because I know who's coming.
1:13:01
SPEAKER_03: That didn't exist back in the day.
1:13:03
SPEAKER_03: Like you didn't know who was coming.
1:13:04
SPEAKER_03: You just showed up, and then when you got there, you're like, oh shoot, they're here.
1:13:09
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
1:13:11
SPEAKER_03: Whereas like now you can go on social media, you can go to everyone's like you can stalk every studio in your area, you can look at their schedule, you can be like, oh shoot, that studio's coming to Star Quest.
1:13:20
SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna go to I'm gonna go to another month because they're gonna cream me or I'm gonna go to a different location.
1:13:25
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
1:13:26
SPEAKER_03: Like, and it's said that and it's gotten to that point because I wish it was just like, let's just go.
1:13:30
SPEAKER_03: And I think that also, you know, at least there's levels, and I if that's what people are seeking.
1:13:35
SPEAKER_03: But that that is something I respect about the conventions that they don't have levels.
1:13:39
SPEAKER_03: And I want to kind of get to that point of your throwback competitions for some of us because I was just so intrigued, and I know you had this idea, and we briefly talked about it because I've been saying for a while, and Leslie, you brought this up too, with the ratio of you know, the majority of entries at regular competitions are living in this intermediate level.
1:13:59
SPEAKER_03: And I feel for the advanced dancers.
1:14:01
SPEAKER_03: I feel for the advanced dancers.
1:14:04
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes they are only competing against one, maybe two other studios.
1:14:08
SPEAKER_03: There have been events where studios come and they're competing against themselves in the in advanced level.
1:14:14
SPEAKER_03: And that's when that's where I dislike levels because I feel for them.
1:14:17
SPEAKER_03: I want it to be more competition for everyone, you know.
1:14:20
SPEAKER_03: So if there was a way that that could be more controlled, because obviously you don't know them until you register.
1:14:24
SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, and I know as a studio owner, I would be upset if I gave this competition X amount of money to come and compete against myself.
1:14:31
SPEAKER_03: Like I would not be okay with that.
1:14:33
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, with the throw, was that kind of your idea with the throwback?
1:14:37
SPEAKER_03: What made you want to introduce the throwbacks with no levels?
1:14:40
SPEAKER_03: Were you seeing a demand for that for advanced dancers?
1:14:42
SPEAKER_07: It's and also your marketing is so good.
1:14:45
SPEAKER_07: Before we even decided to have this conversation, I saw your ads and I was like, oh, this is literally perfect.
1:14:51
SPEAKER_07: Literally, it is so perfect.
1:14:53
SPEAKER_00: I will I will pass that on to Roy.
1:14:55
SPEAKER_00: Our marketing director is astounding.
1:14:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how he's he's tapped into the style guides that we use every year.
1:15:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh, he just he's out in New York City and just knows his stuff and knows how to get to the pulse, but doesn't it it doesn't hurt that a lot of our staff members are are like you guys.
1:15:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, they they've been dancers, they've competed before, they've gone through it.
1:15:17
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the industry has second generation teachers and studio owners in there.
1:15:22
SPEAKER_00: But anyway, you you guys had asked about the the throwback.
1:15:25
SPEAKER_00: It really is inclusivity as opposed to exclusivity.
1:15:29
SPEAKER_00: The beauty of levels is that it creates accessibility, in my opinion, for all walks of dancer, all walks so they can see what it's like, no matter what the level.
1:15:41
SPEAKER_00: But people tend to trend to the middle.
1:15:44
SPEAKER_00: And I remember how it felt when I would see routine after routine after routine of just killer performances, whether it was solos, duets, or anything like that.
1:15:54
SPEAKER_00: And even the ones that didn't make top 10 were still killer.
1:15:58
SPEAKER_00: I remember at one point being on stage as an MC saying, I don't know how these judges are doing this.
1:16:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, who's the better dancer?
1:16:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, Fred Esther, you know, Gene Kelly, you know, Michel Brishnikov, Natalia Makova.
1:16:14
SPEAKER_00: Who do you who do you pick to be the best?
1:16:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's it's like an ice cream.
1:16:18
SPEAKER_00: Pick your flavor because they're all equally as good.
1:16:21
SPEAKER_00: And the scores would reflect that, one tenth of a point from here, you know, uh with each other.
1:16:26
SPEAKER_00: That's an experience that a lot of select dancers don't get to experience now.
1:16:31
SPEAKER_00: And we're not saying we only want select dancers, we want everyone, anyone that's interested.
1:16:37
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:16:37
SPEAKER_00: Here we go again about expectations, knowing the expectations.
1:16:41
SPEAKER_00: We know the cream of the crop will probably be more attracted to this.
1:16:46
SPEAKER_00: We also know it'll feel like a more intimate event.
1:16:49
SPEAKER_00: We don't even we don't even anticipate very long hours.
1:16:54
SPEAKER_00: We don't anticipate six, seven hundred entries.
1:16:58
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be a more intimate event.
1:17:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, and when you think about that's what happens at the conventions because they have limited time.
1:17:05
SPEAKER_00: We will have the whole weekend.
1:17:07
SPEAKER_00: And what we're looking at uh once we find out this year, uh I think we're only doing three.
1:17:12
SPEAKER_00: It's uh three or five.
1:17:14
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna do them in select markets where we've had a lot of interest and do them.
1:17:19
SPEAKER_00: We don't anticipate it like capping, you know, selling out that much to be that way, because it is a unique uh venture.
1:17:27
SPEAKER_00: But depending upon where it averages out, let's say, for example, it averages out to to 300 entries uh for the weekend.
1:17:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay, fine.
1:17:36
SPEAKER_00: That's a that's a comfortable two days.
1:17:38
SPEAKER_00: Maybe we'll add a class or two, maybe we'll add, and it doesn't have to necessarily be in terms of dance technique.
1:17:44
SPEAKER_00: It might be on confidence, it might be on some other aspects that we're looking at of being able to introduce, you know, um setting expectations, talk to the dancers about setting expectations.
1:17:55
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's there's there's a lot of opportunity for them to learn things that there's not a chance to teach at conventions.
1:18:03
SPEAKER_00: And so this will be the beginning, and we'll see what the level of interest is.
1:18:08
SPEAKER_00: But I think Courtney, it'll be more a thing of you know, certain select people will want to do this.
1:18:16
SPEAKER_00: I think studios like Alma, if you have some kids that you think want to test the waters, this is their chance to test the waters.
1:18:22
SPEAKER_00: And that's the way I would set the expectation.
1:18:25
SPEAKER_00: Hey, if you think you're already a select level dancer, have at it, go for it.
1:18:29
SPEAKER_00: If you want to see what it would be like going against it, give yourself a chance.
1:18:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:18:34
SPEAKER_03: I think it's great.
1:18:35
SPEAKER_03: I think it'll honestly help like just bridge that gap a little bit with the overpopulation of the intermediate level and and uh entice people to maybe want to, you know, get their feet wet into that higher division and see how they how they rank.
1:18:50
SPEAKER_03: And also for the the comfort of the studio owners knowing when they register what they're getting.
1:18:55
SPEAKER_03: Like again with that that whole ratio thing.
1:18:58
SPEAKER_03: Like when you enter into a regular competition, there's three different levels, four different levels, and you don't know how the ratio is gonna pan out for where you're divvying up your dances.
1:19:06
SPEAKER_03: And and at least with this, you know that it's just one level.
1:19:09
SPEAKER_03: There's no like everyone's against each other.
1:19:12
SPEAKER_03: I think that's like fixing a problem in our industry.
1:19:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, stripped away and simplified, yeah.
1:19:18
SPEAKER_00: What what would what will it feel like?
1:19:20
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:19:20
SPEAKER_01: You know, because it can also be a really teaching moment too.
1:19:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:19:23
SPEAKER_01: It can it can also be a really good teaching moment for kids that have kind of shifted their ideals to I just want the trophy or I just want to, you know, just if you want to compete, go compete.
1:19:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:19:38
SPEAKER_01: Go compete.
1:19:38
SPEAKER_07: I think it's also good for kids too to understand that like, you know, back in back in the day, gold, silver, bronze, it all all came out of a hundred, right?
1:19:48
SPEAKER_07: Every judge has always had a hundred points.
1:19:50
SPEAKER_07: Bronze back in the day, or gold back in the day is now tripled down because there's now more.
1:19:56
SPEAKER_07: It's like it's all we've all made up the rules.
1:19:58
SPEAKER_07: None of these rules are set in stone, you know, in terms of the scoring.
1:20:02
SPEAKER_07: So I think that's good for kids to understand too that like, you know, things do evolve and things do change.
1:20:07
SPEAKER_07: And like if you go to this event, this is what the award is, which will be different than this event, which is life, you know.
1:20:14
SPEAKER_01: We don't really look at the award, we look at the number.
1:20:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:20:17
SPEAKER_01: We just look at the number, not not what it was, not whether it was a platinum or a gold or a titanium, I don't know, diamond, double diamond, I don't know.
1:20:26
SPEAKER_00: And that's and that's what we do behind the scenes.
1:20:28
SPEAKER_00: We make sure you know.
1:20:29
SPEAKER_01: We but we that's how we teach our kids is we look at numbers.
1:20:33
SPEAKER_01: We don't look at the actual what any any competition is calling the award, because we take we actually take we started a new policy, we only take our top 10 dances to nationals.
1:20:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh nice.
1:20:47
SPEAKER_00: Because you actually look at the numbers.
1:20:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:20:50
SPEAKER_01: Because nobody, everybody qualifies.
1:20:52
SPEAKER_01: Like, there's I mean, I think it's important for them to qualify.
1:20:56
SPEAKER_01: I think it's important for them to if they're gonna pay that expense and the teachers and the studio owners are investing in this nationals, which is usually a trip, a flight, or whatever, earn it.
1:21:07
SPEAKER_01: Like they there's nothing to earn to go there, and they just have to say they're gonna go.
1:21:14
SPEAKER_01: And because right now, if you haven't already registered for nationals, you're not going.
1:21:17
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
1:21:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:21:18
SPEAKER_01: The way it's all out now.
1:21:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's another podcast.
1:21:21
SPEAKER_01: That is another podcast.
1:21:24
SPEAKER_00: That's another evolution.
1:21:25
SPEAKER_00: You're right.
1:21:25
SPEAKER_01: So it is.
1:21:26
SPEAKER_01: So it makes nationals isn't even it it makes it makes regionals not worth it.
1:21:32
SPEAKER_01: I dare say.
1:21:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, I think everything should be worth something to them, and they need to learn the process, which in school sports that's the way it is.
1:21:41
SPEAKER_01: You have to win your games to go to your playoffs.
1:21:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:21:45
SPEAKER_01: You have to win the playoffs to go to the states.
1:21:47
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:21:48
SPEAKER_01: That's yep.
1:21:48
SPEAKER_01: You have to get there.
1:21:49
SPEAKER_01: They're learning it in school, so it's not foreign to them, but in the dance world, it's just not there anymore.
1:21:56
SPEAKER_01: It's shifted.
1:21:57
SPEAKER_01: It's not there anymore.
1:21:58
SPEAKER_01: You know, oh, we can go to n how do you go to nationals?
1:22:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, you just go.
1:22:01
SPEAKER_01: You just go, yeah.
1:22:02
SPEAKER_01: That's why people you don't have to earn it anymore.
1:22:05
SPEAKER_03: You don't even have to earn it.
1:22:06
SPEAKER_03: I think like the main thing that concerns me about the like how what you're talking about, Alma Alma and how the industry has evolved to like the a lot of people get a trophy thing is like I'm I'm concerned for like when they become adults a little bit.
1:22:18
SPEAKER_03: Like I'm just I'm nervous that they're not gonna understand like how to get reject like rejection and exactly.
1:22:24
SPEAKER_03: That's what exactly is.
1:22:25
SPEAKER_03: And not even not a professional dancer, like even in regular life, like you're gonna apply for an interview and you're gonna apply for a hundred more before you actually get a next interview, and they're not gonna understand why, how I did all the things right.
1:22:37
SPEAKER_03: My resume looks good.
1:22:38
SPEAKER_03: I went to school, like you know, you you do all these things, check all the boxes, exactly.
1:22:42
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes you just don't win.
1:22:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:22:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:22:45
SPEAKER_01: And it stinks.
1:22:46
SPEAKER_01: And it's yeah, it's tough.
1:22:47
SPEAKER_01: Definitely tough.
1:22:49
SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, I just I really firmly believe that we our job as studio owners and teachers and and adults that work with kids, like our job is to help them grow up to be functioning adults.
1:23:01
SPEAKER_01: And in any way, shape, or form.
1:23:03
SPEAKER_01: And they need to learn they need to be able to handle defeat and loss as well as success.
1:23:10
SPEAKER_01: And love this I mean, enjoy it, enjoy it, you know.
1:23:13
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, everybody I I want my kids to be successful and I want them to be proud of their accomplishments all day long.
1:23:20
SPEAKER_01: But also, what did you learn from this experience as a whether you won or lost, like what did you learn?
1:23:26
SPEAKER_01: What what can you take out of this in life?
1:23:30
SPEAKER_01: And I I think that's our job, but not just you know, I think competition has to have more meaning behind it.
1:23:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know it's funny, you say that.
1:23:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh I think one of the biggest frust I can't call it frustration, but one of the things that we've had to be very clear about for our entire staff as a competition is we can create the environment, a supportive environment.
1:23:51
SPEAKER_00: And everyone, at least a starquest, and I believe this is true of just about every competition, you know, looks at this and goes, whatever that performer or group receives is a reflection of the best they could do that day.
1:24:05
SPEAKER_00: I might have gotten a platinum a month ago, but today it was high gold, and that's my best today.
1:24:10
SPEAKER_00: That's my personal best.
1:24:11
SPEAKER_00: And we can we can only go so far in having that environment and everything because we do have to leave it to the studio owners as agents and their parents to parent them.
1:24:23
SPEAKER_00: We can support them, we can do everything to make their life user-friendly and remove the obstacles.
1:24:29
SPEAKER_00: But at a certain point, as a competition owner, we can't be the parent and we can't be the studio owner.
1:24:36
SPEAKER_00: Those people know their children better than anyone.
1:24:39
SPEAKER_00: We enjoy them uh the best they can they can do.
1:24:43
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
1:24:44
SPEAKER_00: And we even share with the studio owner a lot of times, well, you know, so-and-so seems to be thinking this way.
1:24:51
SPEAKER_00: We think because we're concerned, but we know we can't, I don't want to use the word interfere, we can't step in.
1:24:56
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
1:24:57
SPEAKER_00: We have to leave that.
1:24:59
SPEAKER_00: But we we try to stay alert and awake and aware.
1:25:02
SPEAKER_00: And that's a that's a tricky, tricky, tricky.
1:25:05
SPEAKER_00: It's balanced because we gotta let you guys do your work, and so hopefully we're doing ours, and hopefully it it meshes, and that's that's the goal in terms of competition.
1:25:15
SPEAKER_00: And one of the goals, one of the idealistic goals of levels to help them have that be on the right highway.
1:25:21
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, totally.
1:25:23
SPEAKER_00: But we allow we have to let the the studio owner determine which highway it is.
1:25:28
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, it's a good analogy.
1:25:30
unknown: Yeah.
1:25:31
SPEAKER_03: Wow, y'all.
1:25:32
SPEAKER_03: Well, I think that that we need to wrap up this uh beautiful discussion, although we could probably sit here all day in chats and continue.
1:25:39
SPEAKER_00: Already?
1:25:40
SPEAKER_07: I know 3.0 3.0 guys.
1:25:45
SPEAKER_07: There'll be another evolution eventually, so we'll have to cover that.
1:25:48
SPEAKER_07: That's true.
1:25:48
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
1:25:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there'll be a 2.5 before you even hit 3.0.
1:25:54
SPEAKER_01: I gotta update my browser first.
1:25:56
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
1:25:58
SPEAKER_03: This was so, so, so great.
1:26:00
SPEAKER_03: And you both shared such great uh advice and life experiences from different perspectives through the years of the evolution of levels at dance competitions.
1:26:11
SPEAKER_03: And I'm sure that all of our listeners probably loved, I hope all of our listeners loved this wonderful discussion.
1:26:16
SPEAKER_03: It was so informative.
1:26:17
SPEAKER_03: I learned so much too.
1:26:19
SPEAKER_03: I know.
1:26:20
SPEAKER_03: So much fun.
1:26:20
SPEAKER_03: So thank you so much for uh both joining us today on the podcast, Steve and Alma.
1:26:25
SPEAKER_03: This is awesome.
1:26:26
SPEAKER_03: How we have our guests lead us out on making the impact is just to share one final thought on the topic today.
1:26:33
SPEAKER_03: Any final things you want to say, you can speak to the dancers, you can talk to the studio owners, you can talk to dance teachers, parents, whoever you'd like to share one final bit of advice, guidance on levels at competition.
1:26:47
SPEAKER_01: I would say to studio owners, just follow the rules, be honest, be advocates for your kids and and put them where they need to be.
1:26:56
SPEAKER_01: And be okay if they're bumped up, be okay if they're not, and and really find teachable moments for them to evolve and to learn and to grow.
1:27:06
SPEAKER_01: And students be coachable, be definitely be coachable and push, push yourself, be better.
1:27:13
SPEAKER_01: Be be have a goal, have set a goal, short-term goal, set a long-term goal.
1:27:18
SPEAKER_01: Set don't don't stay where you're at.
1:27:20
SPEAKER_01: Grow.
1:27:21
SPEAKER_01: Keep growing, keep growing, find one thing.
1:27:23
SPEAKER_01: It's one thing, just keep growing.
1:27:25
SPEAKER_01: Don't stay intermediate.
1:27:26
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna be novice once.
1:27:28
SPEAKER_01: Go intermediate, enjoy it, but don't stay there.
1:27:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, give yourself an opportunity to to go at that higher level and and push yourself a little bit.
1:27:38
SPEAKER_01: It's not it's not about the trophy, it's not about where it ends up, it's it's what did you learn?
1:27:43
SPEAKER_01: What did you learn and what can you bring home to teach your kids and your peers, and what kind of example can you set?
1:27:49
SPEAKER_00: I think for me, first I want to thank uh thank you for having me on uh for this.
1:27:55
SPEAKER_00: And I want to thank all the studio owners, the dancers, teachers, everyone that's been involved in coming to Star Quest over 30 years to celebrate our legacy uh of what we're trying to do.
1:28:06
SPEAKER_00: Our goal has always been to remove every obstacle and impediment to a great performance.
1:28:12
SPEAKER_00: And as I said earlier, we do celebrate all the performers coming in to do the best they can because I firmly believe, and I hope everyone out there listening understands that competition is dance competition is not only about dance, it's about life skills.
1:28:30
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what Alma is is referring to also the life skills.
1:28:35
SPEAKER_00: And I just love that that any of these performers can go into whatever industry it is, whatever career it is, and have a high level of confidence.
1:28:44
SPEAKER_00: And part of having a high level of confidence is recognizing that you're just not going to win all the time, but it's okay because you are still loved and supported.
1:28:55
SPEAKER_00: And so we embrace uh you doing the best you can.
1:28:58
SPEAKER_00: And that's a life skill.
1:29:00
SPEAKER_00: And I hope everyone can recognize that.
1:29:02
SPEAKER_00: It's more than just that three minutes on stage.
1:29:06
SPEAKER_03: We hope you enjoyed this week's episode all about levels at competition.
1:29:11
SPEAKER_03: Be sure to follow our very special guests on social media and Instagram.
1:29:15
SPEAKER_03: You can find Amelie's studio at Amelie's underscore dance.
1:29:19
SPEAKER_03: And be sure to follow Steve Wappel's dance competition, StarQuest, at StarQuest Dance on Instagram.
1:29:26
SPEAKER_07: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
1:29:35
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1:29:41
SPEAKER_07: Join now at Impact Dance Adjudicators.com slash Platinum Premium or click the link in our show notes.
1:29:48
SPEAKER_03: Be sure to check out IDA affiliated competition, Diva Dance Competition.
1:29:53
SPEAKER_03: Diva Dance Competition is America's live judging competition.
1:29:58
SPEAKER_03: Their live judging format is extremely unique in the industry.
1:30:02
SPEAKER_03: Dancers are asked to stay on stage following their routine.
1:30:05
SPEAKER_03: Each of the judges, provided exclusively by Impact Dance Adjudicators, will provide immediate feedback live over the microphone.
1:30:12
SPEAKER_03: This format allows for a very personalized and educational experience where the dancers are able to apply their critiques immediately to their next routines with the purpose of improving as the day goes on.
1:30:24
SPEAKER_03: And last but not least, Diva provides all routine photos and videos absolutely free.
1:30:30
SPEAKER_03: For more information on Diva Dance Competition, head to their website now at divacomps.com.
1:30:37
SPEAKER_07: Coming up next on Making the Impact, we'll be bringing you our next studio spotlight of season four, introducing modern dance to competitive studios and title Is It Worth It?
1:30:47
SPEAKER_03: We hope you enjoyed this week's episode.
1:30:49
SPEAKER_03: We'll see you next week.
1:30:50
SPEAKER_03: Until then, keep dancing.