Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 362 - Secret Agent Bill Shelley

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 362 - Secret Agent Bill Shelley · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: He doesn't mean ladies, and then we're gonna open up
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: one of these Upponini prisonal path pacts during the video.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: A real talk, dude, he doesn't. I were looking to
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: make history. I were looking to go beyond measures. I
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: were looking to pull an ultra reary manga card. Ain't
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: nobody trying to pull the stump the other day and
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: hit it big onna eBay, A real talk, ladies, I'm
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: looking to pull an ultraary number prison card. It's more
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: rare compared to other number of cars that has been
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: pulled the stumb the other day, and go.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Buy it on YouTube.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: I' real talk, old ladies and that one and without
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: further ado, let's hit it big boot.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: He is up to me.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: Then show me choke Pee and show me and show
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: me choke me, and then.
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: Show me.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: Sellow, show kill Lee and here we go, Here we go, indeed,
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: what's up? Everybody? Welcome in to episode number three hundred
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: and sixty two of The Loneoming Podcast. I am one
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: of your hosts, the Triple B Rob Clark, and along
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: with me, as per the usual handsome Joe Borelli.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Thank you, sir, that's the nicest thing you've said to
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: me in a long time.
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: I was gonna say skufuza, but you know I decided
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: to be nice.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: You know, I appreciate it. It is Friday. It is
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Friday after all. But yeah, man, hopefully you had a
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: good week. I know. We had a Banger's members only
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: show on Wednesday.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: When we've finally had it.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, follow it up on a bunch of the
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: thornly stuff which was really cool, and talked about some
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: other drama as we do on the Wednesday show. So
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: if you're a member, definitely.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: Become one or a spook, which is the lowest level.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: We make the last Wednesday show of the month available
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: to you so you can go back and watch it.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: Just go into our playlist and click on members only
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: and everything available to you should show up. So check
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: it out if you haven't yet. If you think you
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: couldn't get and watch it, you can, so definitely check
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: it out.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Get the horn ready? Oh oh, our favorite rocket queen Colleen.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: Wow A long time no see? Thank you? Colleen?
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: What is it?
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: Hippo character with the pink flips it back where he
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: raises his thumb up in the air. I guess that's
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: an emoji. She's giving us thumbs up. We love you, Colleen,
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: We've missed you, welcome back.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Yes, we appreciate it.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: You're a rock star.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: And yeah, i'll i'll welcome some people in. Tiny was first,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: although it doesn't show on restream, and she said first
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: with a gold medal, and we hope she is recovering well.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: Yes, thank you for having nothing better to do than
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: to join us here at the Lincoln Podcast Tiny while
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: you're late up.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: We appreciate Yeah, she made the comment as soon as
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: you put up the episode.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: I think, uh, she even she even shows up when
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: she has something better to do, so we we love
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: Tiny and we appreciate yourself.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And speaking of people that have something better to do, Tonight,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: the double Bee will be taking his mother out for
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Indian food for her birthday, so he will not be here.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: Easy on the curry, ms.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Bee, I said, why don't you take her out to
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: some real food Italian? But maybe maybe that's her favorite,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: So happy birthday to mother double Bee and Trey will
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: be driving to Shreveport, and it was his birthday yesterday,
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: so happy birthday, Trey.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: Mores. Trey's driving the Shreveport of course, r birthday.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: Row and Shreveport, Luis, so.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: He won't be commenting. Yeah, maybe maybe he'll get the
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: missus to type in his comments for him as he
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: drives the drive safe. But and uh we had mister
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Jack Taylor, who I was texting with earlier today. How
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: are you? James Smith E V South to West said
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: is it Friday already? And I said, yeah, tell me
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: about it. They're coming quick.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: Man.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Sally was here earlier. Uh, sooner, Scooter, Mister Paul Cummings,
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: good evening. Bill Shelley was not at the trademark with
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: l H O. And I think that's we will discuss, Yes,
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: we promise, Uh, Paul, how are you? PSB honesty, Howdy, howdy, howdy,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: thank you, thank you for joining us. Yes, Happy Friday everyone, Colleen,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: and again thank you. What are you talking about? Ruby
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Murray is delicious. I'm talking about American Indian food, not
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: whatever you consider curry in Ireland quarter prout.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: I see, hagis.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: I bet they're somewhat significantly different, but I could be wrong.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: Not give me cheap testicles over here, Sally, calm down, Roger,
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: what's up, Buddie? Hey? Lee? Harold Oswald in the house.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: And I don't know what I had to make Rock
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: and Queen Colleen give three laughing face emoses for Joseph.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: But so that is it. I'm sure more will join in.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: But thank you Colleen and uh yeah, Broyes, Folks.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: Tony Holman just showed up. Folks. If you're here and
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: you haven't smacked that like button yet, do it for me.
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: We'd appreciate it. Smacked the hell out of it. And
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: I've seen something new on YouTube, Joe, So you can
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: hype somebody's videos. I don't know what this is. Yes,
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: hype our shit please.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, so you know when you go into the comments section,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: because you know where all our hypes are coming from.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: I don't even know what a hype is.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, it's coming for me and my Burner account. I've
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: been experimenting with it. When you know how you can
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: when you have the comments, when you click on the
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: YouTube video, say you're watching it tomorrow morning. You can
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: go to the live chat replay whenever that comes out,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: usually within twenty four hours. If you swipe one more,
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: it's there's a button that says hype and it has
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: to do with like the number ones, number two's number
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: threes and the live comments section. So like the more
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: you comment, the more points you get to hype. So
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: I have like two thousand points to hype and I've
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: been hyping it every day because I guess you could
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: hype it every day and maybe that helps with the algo.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: We're not sure. We hope that it definitely can't hurt,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: i'd say, Rob, right, so scroll to the right one
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: more after the live chat replay and then click hype
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: and let's see if it makes any difference.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so we shall try, try, try, all right, we
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: got further ado, go ahead.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Joe, Indian cuisine is the most popular cuisine in the
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: United Kingdom, the proper learn something new every day.
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: It's probably because you got a lot of them people
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: over there. It's just like Mexican food is like really
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: popular here. There's a lot of them here. Yeah, I
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: would say Mexican or Chinese is probably the most popular
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: non American food here. Right, depending on where you're at, obviously.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Right right, South Twest says, I still don't understand the
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: number one thing in the chat. Yeah, I join the club.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: We don't either. It's new within the past, like a
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: month or two. But I think the more you comment,
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: the more you're.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: Engaged in or get to give. I don't know.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it means like you're a number one fan or
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: a number two fan. I think that's how it goes, hopefully.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: Like Joe says that it helps the algo Uh yeah,
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: put our show in front of other eyes that don't
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: normally see it.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, Colleen's carrying a bunch of hypes. So uh
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: tomorrow when they let us hype hype it up.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: Hell yeah.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: So all right, mister William H.
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: Shelley hoity toity, that's a middle name for you.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: That they had interesting ones back then?
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: Where is the young Bill Shelley here? Look at this
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: handsome little fella and he actually went by hot when
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: he was little m h as you can see here,
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: even signed it and he says something, there's something that
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: the woman I love for the woman I love Wait Shelley. Yeah,
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: so he must have been in love with somebody back
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: in the day, Joe. Yep, you can see here he
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: was a lieutenant in his ROTC.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Yep, he's signing a yearbrook here. That's what this was.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: In the diamond?
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: What the hell is that diamond?
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: Club, maybe a Frisbee fanatic.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Rifle team nineteen forty two, interesting rifle team and the
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: tech talk staff. Yeah, which is interesting in nineteen forty
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: three or four whenever this ones.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: You don't know what breaking edge tech was going on
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: back then.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: But that's what I'm saying. It's interesting.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: You just got brown tires. Yeah, I'm really into him.
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: But yeah, that's William Hoyt.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Yes. And of course, one of the big questions surrounding
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: mister Bill Shelley is was he connected to intelligence? Was
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: he possibly pictured with Oswald in New Orleans giving out
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: pamphlets in the background? Did he possibly have some role
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: to play in the assassination?
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: And we'll get there.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Probably. I haven't made up my mind. I tried to
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: by the end of these episodes, but we will see.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to slow walk you there, we promise.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: So let's start back to the beginning, Joe, William Hoyts Shelley's
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: humble beginnings. Okay, William Hoyt Shelley's humble beginnings. Here we go.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Am I doing this part?
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: William Hoist Shelley's Humble beginning? You said you had the
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: beginning stuff.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. Okay, let me uh, let me bring
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: it up one second. It's not in my PowerPoint, but
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: I close the tab.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: Hm oh lord, m hold please, we need the Jeopardy
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: theme song. H that's not it. That's not it either,
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: but it's kind of appropriate for the moment.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Okay. So Bill Shelley was born in nineteen
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: twenty six in Gunor, Texas. He attended Krozier High School
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: during World War Two, and I think that's the picture
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: you had shown. His early life is shrouded in some mystery.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Rob When he had left school, his first work was
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: in defense plants during the war and then commenced during
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: the TSBD and started working for the Texas school Book
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Depository in October nineteen forty five. Okay, so right after
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: the war ended, about a year or so.
• 13:41
  Speaker 5: I'm just going to the end of my power point
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: here because it's towards the end these pictures.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: Of course, the building, the Elm Street building that we
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: all have become so familiar with was not actually the
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: site of the Texas school Book Depository until nineteen sixty three,
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: the summer before the assassination. They had actually been in
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: a different location, so it wasn't like Bill Shelley was
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: here the whole time in that building. I think that
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: that fact gets lost on people sometimes that they think
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: that this building, well, I mean the building itself had
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: been there for a while and had gone through several incarnations.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: I think it was a coffee factory at some point,
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: possibly far like a John Deere deal, a wholesale grocery company.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: And I believe that outfit had stained a lot of
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: the floors, which is what they were doing that day
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: on November twenty second, was replacing the floors, you know,
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: the wooden floors on various floors of the warehouse part
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: of the building. Like I said, they had only been
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: in there for a couple of months, right.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Right, and he was kind of the crew of the
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: floor staff.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah. They had previously been over in the Dow Text
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: building on the first floor, right. And then there was
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: a second warehouse just about a block or two over
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: that they called the State Building with another Texas school
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: Book depository warehouse.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, yes, so this is actually I guess we'll
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: go and reverse chronological for the slide.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: When the hell happened Bill Shelley at the into his life.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, let's read his obituary. William Hoyt Shelley nineteen
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: or seventy of Irving died Friday, September sixth in Dallas.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: This is an article in the September nineteen ninety six
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: article probably local Dallas. Mister Shelley was born in April twelfth,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: nineteen twenty six, in Gunther Gunter. He retired from the TSBD,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: where he worked for over forty years. He was survived
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: by his wife, Maggie Marie Stapleton Shelley, sons William Boyd
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Shelley of Irving and Charles Reed Shelley of Mount Pleasant,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: and sisters Gertrude Hayes of plain View, Jimmy Lee Robertson
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: of Irving, and Mary Dell Gardner and husband Gerald's mom,
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Rufus of Greenville. Services were held September eleventh at Brown's
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Memorial Funeral Home. And yeah, he was seventy years old
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: when he passed.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: So, Daryl, what's your daddy's name, Rufus, Oh, Rufus Garner.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: That would be interesting if that matched A So the
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: question is we saw his yearbook during the war that
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: says he was an r OTC. So he was in
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: training to be an officer. Now, the contention is, and
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: this is by the way, from bart Camp's prayer slash
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Hyphenman dot com. I got this from. The contention is
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: around did he actually go into the army? Was he
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: somehow in intelligence? The Warran Commission, as we'll get to
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: in a little bit, completely glossed over. You know how
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: when like all these Warning Commission testimonies rob they go
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: into like people's backgrounds for like an annoying amount of time. Yeah,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: they had one question about it and that's it, and
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: we'll get there. His Warren Commission testimony. I mean, I
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: know we talked about Larry Crayford's being one of the
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: longer ones at thirty three. His is about seven and
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: a half. And then he had a Warren Commission testimony
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: times too, when they brought some of the TSBD employees
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: back to clarify some things. Was less than three pages.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: So for Oswalt's direct report to be glossed over, in
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: my opinion, is a little sus to me. And as
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: I read this, because I read a lot of Warren
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Commissioner testimonies and they usually talk a lot about the background,
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: but almost nothing with Bill Shelley. So on the left
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: is a newspaper article, also from Bart's site, and it
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: says it's admissions to hospitals, right, as in like people wounded, Yes,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: William H. Shelley, Colorado City, Texas. Now, I don't know
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: where Colorado City is in compared to Gunther or Dallas,
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: but that is pretty interesting. So let me now go
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: to the absolute start, and that is mister or do
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: you want to do the New Orleans part first before
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: I go into the dpd Abbe Davids.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: We can real quick just to uh, hey, what's up, Timothy.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: Aytian.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: So let's see here. I think I have that picture
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: here somewhere. Yeah, okay, Now, this is of course pulled
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: from footage of WDSU taking of Oswald handing out leaflets
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: in front of the International Trademark in New Orleans, right,
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: and the figure that the arrow is pointing to the
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: red arrow in each photo. There's actually two photos here
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: side by side, different poses. The one on the left
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: you can kind of see the guy's profile and his
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: glorious pompadour haircut there. The one on the right is
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: not as clear. He has as I don't know if
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: he's picking his nose or what he's doing there, or
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: maybe scratching an itch on his face, or really appreciant
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: that there is a camera on his ass right about now. Now,
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: just to be clear, Wait, Bill Shelley never ever said
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: that he was in New Orleans in nineteen sixty three. Ever,
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: people put that picture forward because they say that it
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: kind of looks like him. Okay, so I made another collage. Okay,
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: Now there's three photos at various points in Shelley's life,
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: most of them from the twenty second in November. There's
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: three photos, and I tried to put him as close
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: as I could to the figure in the photo.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, they're in the middle, correct.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Now, I admit there's a somewhat of a resemblance.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: There are one hund resemblance.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: Yes, But let's think about things logically for a second, folks. Yes,
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: Bill Shelley works in Dallas at the school Book Depository. Okay,
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: they haven't even moved into what they may have just started,
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: or I think they moved in in August to the
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Elma Street building. And of course this event happened in August.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: So him being a foreman or a supervisor at the
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: school book Depository, you would think he would be an
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: integral part of moving the operation from one building to
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: another and getting the new building set up to do business.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: Or Am I just crazy? Joe?
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: You are not. That's a very logical thing.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, I mean we're stepping through logically here, folks. Again
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: from what From everything that we know, there's been the
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: zero interaction between William Shelley and Lee Harvey Oswald. Yet
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: Oswald would not start employment at the school book Depository
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: until the middle of October nineteen sixty three, some two
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: months after this photo was taken. Now, this could be
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: just a random any fucking body. It doesn't even have
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: to be anybody related to the case, Joe, really right,
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: you know, it could just be some random scafuza standing
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: there reading the panas.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Smoking a cigarette outside of the building. Who the hell knows?
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I mean it can be Lee Rando.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I believe this date. So Oswalt was arrested
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: August ninth. Obviously, I believe this was taken on August sixteenth. Yes,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: the twentieth also comes to my mind, but I believe
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: it's a sixth but it's in that range.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Yes. Now, the reason I included the two pictures at
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: the bottom. Okay, you see the two mug shots at
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: the bottom, I do. On the right we have Thomas
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: Beckham and what he looked like in nineteen sixty two. Okay,
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: Now he's got the squinty eyes, the pompadour haircut, right.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the same receiding hairline kind of yeah.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: And of course he would have been a year older
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: in the picture above than he is in the mugshot.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: And then we had on the left we have a
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: picture of Thomas Beckham in nineteen seventy two, ten years later,
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: in which he is still rocking said pompadoor haircut, along
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: with some sweet mutton shoe side burning.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: So Beckham was definitely a fan of the pompadoor type haircut, right.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: He liked to print, he loved the ladies and all that.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: And we know, obviously he was in New Orleans at
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: this time. I mean he's arrested there in nineteen sixty two.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: He didn't leave until much later. He was there in
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: sixty three. And oh, by the way, folks, here is
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: what Thomas Beckham says about this incident. In fact, this
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: is from his HSCA interview with Buris and Delso, Okay,
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: he says, of course, they're talking about anti communist Cubans,
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: and they're talking about Sergey Akasha. They're talking about Lawrence Howard.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: And Buris asked him, was Lee Harvey Oswald of visitor
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: at the church. He said, yeah, Lee, Lee was well.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: I knew Lee. I knew him real well. What so
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: was he? And Beckham says, as a matter of fact,
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: quite a few times Lee talked about his friend, the
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: Chief that was to help him, and I know for
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: a fact, and I believe in my heart, and I
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: know he had no reason to lie. One time I
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: just told him if he didn't stop some of his
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: crazy stuff he used to make me so mad. He
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: said the Chief would take care of me. I said,
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: why don't you stop this silly stuff? He said no,
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: the Chief, which he told was the head of the
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: FBI then, which was Hoover. He said, didn't worry about
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: those local FBI. That the Chief would take care of him.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: He also, possibly referring to Banister as the.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: Chief as well, that he had his ends and that
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: was no worry Lee. As a matter of fact, one
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: day here we go, folks, pay attention. One day I
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: met Lee in front of the Old International Trademark Building.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: He was giving out some kind of a free Cuba
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: pamphlet or something, and we went after he was done
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: down there on Canal Street and had a coke and
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: he told me that that particular day he was just
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: on television or something, which he was. This is from
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: the footage, But in another meeting I met with Lee,
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: was that when we talked about just getting back from
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: Mexico and he was going to be coming into some money.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: I think this was in September, if I'm not mistaken,
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: and he talked about his trip to Mexico instead he'd
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: be coming into some funds. And then they go on
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: talk about a whole bunch of other shit. But so
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: and I don't know how much we can trust Thomas Beckham.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: I really don't. He says some crazy shit, but he
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: also says a lot of interesting shit. But when you're
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: talking about is this guy Bill Shelley or was he
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: Thomas Becky, I'm gonna put a little bit more weight
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: on the Thomas Beckham side of things, because a we
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: know he was there in New Orleans. He admitted to
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: being there when Lee was handing out these pamphlets, and
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: he got caught on film doing it right. So to me,
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: that carries a little more weight than the Bill Shelley.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: There's just no logic with the Bill Shelley.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna actually take logic a little further, if possible,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: please do If that was Shelley hypothetically Okay, That means
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: by mid August the operation of Frey Oswalt was already
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: fully in action. He traveled from Dallas to New Orleans
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: without anyone knowing about it, was either caught in a
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: picture or recruited him to work at the TSBD for
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: operation more than three months later. Uh, and then you're
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: gonna have to make Lily May Randall and Ruth Payne
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: lie about how they got him the job at the TSBD, which, granted,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: I don't think it was hard to make Ruth lie.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: But it expands the conspiracy in a major way, right right,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: more people involved, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: that to me really makes it not likely, although I
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: have to have to admit it does look a lot
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: like him. It does.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: Here's a picture of Beckham rocking the Pompadour.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah again and.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: Here as well, and again I don't know if it's
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: Beckham but he's a suspect, right, right, Yeah, definitely a suspect,
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: especially in this photo. And this is as close as
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: nineteen sixty three as you're gonna get. I agree, it
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: was like a year before that footage was taken, when
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: he was you know, younger looking, skinny, squinty eyes, pompadoor haircut.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I will say, Rob, the only thing that gives me
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: some hesitation is how he was dressed in the suit. Right.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: We know how Shelley was dressed when him and a
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: couple other TSBT employees were detained and brought to the
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: DPD headquarters. Right, the white shirt.
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: These guys wore suits back.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Then, right, Beckham though, Yeah, yeah, I get yeah, yeah,
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying that's like one point that makes me
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: question it, but I do not believe it. And Paul
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Cummings had a good comment.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: And I did come across again, if Bill Shelley's not
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: at work at the school book Depository, what the fuck
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: does he need to wear a suit in New Orleans
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: for right?
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: I was wearing a tie.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. I did come across this in my
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: readings today. Larry Hancock has stated that it is Gordon
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Beckham and not Shelley in this picture.
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: Do what?
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Larry Hancock has stated that he believes it's Beckham and
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: not Shelley in this picture. Yes, many times like over
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: the years. Yeah, I just wanted to start that message
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: out of a couple more ones. Gunter is just north
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: of Dallas and Colorado City is way the hell out in.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: That's Texas at least two hundred miles. Well, that's interesting
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: because I guess that's where this William H. Shelley was
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: admitted to the hospital. We have no idea of what
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: he could have.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: Been doing or what base he was at in the military.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: He could have been on some basis near Colorado City,
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: right right, there's a lot of there's a lot of
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: army bases around Texas back then.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. Timothy Ryan says, a random scaffusa in
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: regards to the Shelley pick.
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: It could just very well be a random skaffuza from
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: the street and.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Very well could be. Dang, how many times was Beckham arrested?
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: A lot? If the dude had a rap sheet, he
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: was a con man? What do you expect?
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: And mister James Smith one of these.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: People that and he would tell you you dressed the
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: part to be the part. So if you want respect,
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: if you want to be treated to certain way, you
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: dressed a certain way. Joe, you're dressed in a suit.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: You know, if if you if you play in the
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: part of that. You know, guy that needs to be
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: respected for whatever reason, you wear a suit, right, you know,
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: if you need to be respected for other things, you
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: wear a collar, you know, like a like a priest.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: You know, you act a part. Yeah, you carry the
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: right ship. You carry yourself like you know what you're doing,
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: like you're supposed to be there and it's crazy, but
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: you can get away with that is true.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: That is true. There's a funny video of a YouTube
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: account that just carries that dress up at meat as
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: maintenance workers and carries ladders into like super uh secured
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: areas and they get in all the time.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, because they act like you're supposed to be there.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Right exactly. So so who knows? James says, I agree,
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: gotta be Beckham. I think that's the most likely. And
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: I think to assume, like I was pointing out that
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: it would be Shelley would would then include a lot
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: more people in the conspiracy.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And like I said, I don't know how much
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: of Beckham's bullshit to believe, but he put himself there
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy eight during his interview, So to me,
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: that carries a little weight because at this time, Joe,
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: you had to be a serious fucking researcher to even
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: know that there was footage of this incident with Lee Oswald.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: And oh, there just happens to be a guy in
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: the fucking picture. It looks just like me. So I'll
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: just say I was there exactly.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: This is there's no internet, right, I.
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: Mean twas Beckham said that, and then there's not a
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: guy in the picture that looks like him, right, is
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: a guy in the picture that looks like him? So
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: it's it's one of those things where you know, could be,
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: couldn't be. You know, if it is Beckham, then to me,
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: you got to give a little more credence to what
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: he's been saying all these years.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: It's true. I agree, Colleen said in a previous episode,
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: you all convinced me that it wasn't Shelley, that might
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: have been BJ But yeah, before yeah, yeah, not an
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: actual uture Jack Teller wear a suit to an NFL
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: game and you can walk around anywhere in the stadium. Yeah, exactly, exactly,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: And I have a funny story.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: A couple of years on turn them backwards, you know,
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: like you're's some important swinging dick.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: Uh, big rains and a nice watch, you know, Joe,
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, be well shaved and quaffed and look like
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: you're supposed to be there.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and these days it's even easier. Actually, there's a story.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: I met an ESPN radio host who goes to my
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: same barber, right, and I went up to the box
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: once the ESPN boxing massins were garden during the Rangers
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: game and walked in and sat with them for the
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: second third period, right, and every game since I just
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: have walked in that suite with free hot dogs, free soda,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: free water, free pretzels, and if I ever get stopped
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: to go, oh my uncle's that host.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and we have not gotten.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Stopped once because we pretended, we acted like we were
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: supposed to be there. No one knows anyone in those suites.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: They're all randomly invited. So yes, to your point, look,
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: the part be the part for sure. So all right,
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: so now that we got through that, let's uh, let's
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: let's go as we like to do, Rob chronologically through
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: the station.
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: I'm curious to see what Bill Shelley said. And this
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: is the same day.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: It's the same day, and he actually had two DPD
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: affidavids and an FBI interview.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: Okay, so this.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Is DPD Affidavid, I believe it's one. Doesn't give a timestamp.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: Now, by the way, everybody, just so you know, Bill
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: Shelley was one of several folks that was arrested and
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: taken down to the police station that day.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Well, Rob, yes, I actually don't agree with arrested. I
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: would prefer the detained for questioning.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: Well, I would prefer a five foot nine block on bombshell.
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: But you don't always get what you.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Want, Joe.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: That's sometimes you're not escorted by an armed police officer
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: and then get a gun shoved in your face, much
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: like Bill Shelley did. Crammed in the back of a
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: cop car with Danny Arsey, Bill Bonnie, Ray Williams, and
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: Jack Doherty, right, okay, and Billy Lovelady, which, by the way,
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: most of the floor crew. Okay, I mean they're all
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: they were all on the floor crew.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: That day.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: So that should tell you something. I would say, taken
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: down to the station against your will is arrested, maybe
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: not formally charged with anything, but definitely and not putting
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: handcuffs and forced down. But right, you're taking these guys
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: down to the station.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they're detained, right, and they're saying, come
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: down to the station, give us statements, which we're going
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: to go through all their statements here.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: Yep, they got Bill Shelley. You can't see Bonnie Ray,
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: but he's with him. So you got a black guy,
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: you got a Mexican, you got Danny Rsa, and you
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: got another goofy white guy, Jack Doherty, a retard half
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: a retard allegedly allegedly. I don't think he is or was, Yeah,
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: but yeah, so you know, these guys are taken down
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: and here we go with the Affidavid Joe. So what
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: does it tell us?
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: All right? So today, approximately twelve thirty pm, November twenty second,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: I was standing on the front steps this is William H. Shelley,
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Bill Shelley at four eleven album watching the President in
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: the parade. The President's car was about halfway from Houston
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Street to the Triple Underpass when I heard what sounded
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: like the shots. I couldn't tell where they were coming from.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: I ran across the street to the corner of the park,
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: so pay attention to this. I ran across the street
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: to the corner of the park and ran into a
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: girl crying, and she said the president had been shot.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: This girl's name is Gloria Calvary, who is in employee
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: of the same building. I went back to the building
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: and went inside and called my wife and told her
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: what happened. I was on the first floor then, and
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: I stayed at the elevator and was told not to
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: let anyone out of the elevator. I left the elevator
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: and went with the police on up to the other floors.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: I left semi retard Jack Dherty in charge of the elevator.
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: You're retarded, Captaindoviy.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, So that is the first one. This is the
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: second one day of and this is it's on the
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: top years twenty second of November, approximately October tenth or twelfth,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: sixty three, a man by the name of Lee Oswalt Okay,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: So let me put this in context. When these skuffuzas
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: from the TSBD floor crew were put in the cop
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: car rob yes, they did not know Lee was arrested
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: at the Texas Theater, of course not. They saw him
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: for the first time in DPD headquarters, Yes, which is
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: why a lot of their first statements don't reference Oswalt.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: And you got to wonder why they're taking the second
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: one here from from Shelley. I have been working I
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: was put in charge of him by mister Trully to
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: show him what to do. I have been working close
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: with this manson he has been there. This man stayed
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: by himself most of the time, and he would go
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: for a walk at noontime. Lee would bring his lunch
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: and usually eat with us in the lounge and read
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: the paper. He would usually read about politics. Today, I
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: arrived for work at eight am and went about my
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: usual duties. Lee was already filling some orders just outside
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: my office. I saw him periodically all morning, with the
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: exception of when we were on the sixth floor. At noon,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: I started eating my lunch in my office and I
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: went outside. He says around twelve fifteen to see the president.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: After the president's accident, It's a nice way of putting it.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: I started checking around and I missed Lee. I asked
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: mister Truley about him, and he told me he had
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: not seen him. I didn't see Lee until the police
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: brought him into the Police homicide Bureau.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah, Now, we don't have footage of these guys
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: in the station in particular, but we do. There is
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: a photo out there of a part of footage the
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: dust of Billy Love Lady sitting in the police station
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: as they're bringing Oswald in in handcuffs, and he's sitting
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: there just watching him bringing Oswald in.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Like, I have it here.
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: Oh well, God bless you.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: Uh somewhere, Uh maybe maybe.
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: Let me just go to.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: I am going through the prayer Man website, which has
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: a bunch of good stuff on this Where is it?
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: Hold on, Okay, I have it somewhere.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: Yes, Timothy's probably thing. Glad that ain't me.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, I have it here. Thank you guys for your patience.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Two hours later, ye all right, all.
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: While you're looking for that Joe, I want to do
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: a commercial, folks. Okay. I don't know about you, guys,
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: but as you know, we endorse Silk City Hot Sauce
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: around here because it is damn delicious hot sauce and
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: it helps support the show. When you buy some, you
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: can use our code The link is in the description. Also,
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: I don't know about you guys, but I probably drink
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: three big cups of water every day and I like
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: my water to be ice flipping cold, okay. And I
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: came across some of the coolest cups. They're not yetties.
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: This is something called the coldest, right, kind of like
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: the illest. These are the coldest coldest cups that I've
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: ever ran across. These will keep your shit cold and
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: ice in there for up to thirty six hours, which
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: is insane.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Is that where you're keep your smoothies in? No?
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: No, But if I did, they would remain cold for
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: a very long time. And on the converse, it will
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: keep something hot for twenty four hours, like piping hot,
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: like coffee, if that's what you're into. And it comes
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: with three different lids. This is the gulper lid, right,
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: You pop that shit open like that and you can go.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: I hear the gulping.
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: There's a sipper lid for hot hot beverages like coffee,
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: and then there's one with a straw. You know, if
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: you're a fancy girl and you drink out of a straw.
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: I do not drink out of straws. Joe, I have
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: not used a straw since I was a teenager. Fur
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: them back at the waitress when they try to give
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: me one at a restaurant, and I said, this is
• 46:43
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• 46:46
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• 47:24
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• 47:30
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• 48:13
  Speaker 2: Joe, thank you, sir.
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• 48:17
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• 48:19
  Speaker 3: I I gotta watch the boys. So thank you, Brandon,
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: thank you, sir. I'm just CAFs in here while Joe
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: tries to find.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: A Yes, I I have a ready sir.
• 48:31
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• 48:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, now it sounds perfect for my ice coffee. Yeah,
• 48:50
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• 48:53
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• 48:55
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• 48:58
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• 49:17
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• 49:19
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• 49:27
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• 49:36
  Speaker 2: I love the different leads. I'm like really intrigued by this,
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: so I'm definitely gonna check it out. Thank you, Robert.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: All right, so here is the eleven second video of
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: love Lady seeing Oswalt being led past him Oswalt, Love Lady. Yeah,
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: hold on, there you bald spots and all the same
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: shirt that we see him kind of leaning over the
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: side that a lot of people thought was oswaldt initially. Yep,
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: And there you see Lee right, So they're not. They're
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: like right next to each other, led right by them.
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: Now hold on a second, Joe, Oh, I guess I
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: kind of see remember, hey, he hit a dark colored
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: shirt on. It looks like he just has a go
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: back to the beginning. Does he just have a white
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: T shirt? On or is that ugly ass brown shirt
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: anywhere on his ass?
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: It seems like he has a white shirt on as
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: he's led by long sleeved white shirt.
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: That's weird.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: It's weird.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: He never had a white shirt on it when he
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: was arrested or long sleeved white shirt and arrested at
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: the Texas Theater. Remember he had that that ugly brown
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: shirt and a white T shirt underneath of it. Yep.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: Not long sleep you yep. And I want to show
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: because we're going to get into this in a second. Here. Yes,
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: this is the alleged picture. I don't know if it's darnewell,
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: it's in the description, but this is allegedly I think
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: it's the yeah, love lady and and Shelley walking in. Now.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: This is important because this is visual evidence of these
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: two guys after after the shooting, leaving the steps of
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: the depository and walking towards the grassy. No. Yep, this
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: will be important later because it directly contradicts the testimony
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: of somebody that you've heard of before named Vicky Adams.
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. And there's one more. I think this is
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: gift number two allo, h Okay, I don't know what's
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: going on here? Do you see full screen right now? No?
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: Let me no, I'm gonna redo it.
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: I see a bunch of little screens. Yeah h.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: So I guess there is not slowed down them walking
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: back in. So yes, that is going to become important.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: So back to the power point once I get it
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: back up here. So we just read both of Shelley's
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: at Fidavid's day of right, the first one and I
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: think the second one that refers to Oswalt after he
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: was brought in kind of we saw him past love Lady.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: But I'm guessing something similar happened with Shelley. Now we're
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: going to go to the Bill Shelley FBI statement. It
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: says the twenty third, but it was done on the
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: twenty second Shelley. Mister William Shelley, Department Manager TSBD, furnished
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: this information. On the morning of November twenty second, Harvey
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: Lee Oswalt, to his employee of the TSBD, appeared at
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: work as usual and went about his occupation filling orders
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: for school books. He saw Oswalt on two or three
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: occasions during the morning, and last saw him sometime between
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: eleven forty five am and twelve noon, which would have
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: been forty five to half an hour before the assassination
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: the shots. When he Shelley went to lunch. He did
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: not see Oswald again on this date until he observed
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: Oswalt at the DPD, where he went at the request
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: of the Dallas police officers. Oswald said nothing to him
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: about leaving work early or going home, and he did
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: not give Oswalt permission to leave work. And this is
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: another point of contention, rob Oswalt saying in his interviews that, oh,
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Shelley kind of said, I doubt work is going to
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: continue today, which would have been obvious. Right, it's a
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: crime scene. So Oswalt left work or did he leave?
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: Nefariously right? And Shelley is going to deny, and it
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: has always denied that he let anyone leave or he
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: said someone could leave. Continuing, mister Shelley accompanied the agents
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: to the sixth floor of the TSBD, were some bones
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: hiten bones apparently there remains a fried chicken and accompanying
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: wax paper were observed on the front floor near the
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: corner center window on the south side of the building.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: Mister Shelley stated that he observed an employee early early
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: on the morning of November twenty second, and it is
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: certain that those bones and wax paper were left there
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: by this other employee and not by Oswald. Great, so
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: we settled that. Mister Shelley stated that he has never
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: seen Oswalt with a gun or rifle of any kind.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: Now we're gonna fast forward. Let's see about two weeks ish.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: This is an FBI key person report. Believe it's in
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: the War Commission. Mister William Shelley advised that no time
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: clock or register of any kind is maintained for the
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: warehouse employees. The only record maintained is the paywall record
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: that shows whether the employee was president of a specific date.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: Mister Shelley stated specifically that on the morning of November
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: twenty second, he did not see Oswalt with any package.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: In fact, did not actually see Oswalt arrive at work,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: but did see him at about the time the work
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: day commenced, and at that time Oswalt had no packages.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Mister Shelley stated there was no way to determine whether
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: employer employees arrived for work at about the same time
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: as Oswald's. Fast forward. A week later, another gets reinterviewed,
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: and this is about whether Ruby knew Oswalt, and long
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: story short, Shelley says, no, I have no idea of
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: the association, acquaintanceship, or connection between Ruby and Oswalt. Now
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: we go to March eighteenth, sixty four, and this is
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: also when the Warrant Commission, and this is kind of
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: when they're getting their ducks in the row for their story. Right,
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: So we read the initials their initial stories. Now it's
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: going to kind of start coming together a little more,
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: right in little ways. I William Shelley made the following
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: statement Special Agent to the FBI. On November twenty second,
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: I left my office in the TSBD and walked just
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: outside the front entrance of the building to watch the
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: presidential parade motorcade pass. This was about twelve fifteen pm.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: I recall that as the motorcade passed, I was standing
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: just outside the glass doors of the entrance. At that
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: time JFK was shot. I was standing at the same place.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: Billy Lovelady, who works under my supersition, was seated on
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: the entrance steps just in front of me. I recall
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: that Wesley Frasier, Missus Sarah Stanton, and Missus Carolyn Arnold
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: also employees that TESBD were also standing in this entrance
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: way at the time I was. I did not see
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: Hawary Oswald at the time of the shot. I did
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: not observe any strangers in the building at any time
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: during the morning of November twenty second. Immediately following the shooting.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: This is important. Billy Love Lady and I accompanied some
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: ununiformed police officers some uniformed police officers to the railroad
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: yards just west of the building and returned through the
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: west door of the building about ten minutes later. I
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: remained in the building until about one thirty PM, when
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: I was asked to go to DPD. You furnish an Affidavid.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: I returned to TSBD about five o'clock, got my coat,
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah. Also all worked under my supervision. He
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: was at work when I arrived. He was going about
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: his regular duties. He didn't notice anything off on Oswalt's
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: So then we get to his Warren Commission testimony. Let
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: mean make sure here, I'm just gonna stop sharing as
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: I found my place with my PowerPoint. But his story
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: changed a little bit from that time, and it's gonna
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: change even more when we get to the Warren Commission testimony,
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: as he says he goes to the middle area, the
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: island between Elm Street and his alibi, missus Cavern Lee,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: as I will show he was actually best man in
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: her wedding, so quite a convenient witness to quote. Let
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: me see, yeah, do you have any comments you want
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: to read while I find a place here.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: Let's see here we got James is Shelley saying he
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: stood out in front and watched JFK pass by and
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: didn't know what happened. At the very least, he sugarcoated it,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: you know, when he had his accident, whatever that means.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, you gotta you gotta understand that they were
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: on the step, the front steps of the School of
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: Depository that had passed it's halfway down towards the overpass
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: when shots rang out, So they're not exactly one hundred
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: percent clear on whether or not the President was even
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: shot or not at that point. I'm sure they learned
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: later for sure that that's what happened, but they may
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: not at that time have known. I mean, I'm sure
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: they heard the shots, but they might not have known
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: if anybody was hit or killed or anything like that.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: At that time until they started walking down towards the
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: Grassy Knoll and they would you know, obviously hear other
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: people talking, oh my god, I can't believe that president
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: at that shot. You know, as they get closer down
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: to that area.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah for sure. Okay, So I am going For some reason,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: my PowerPoint did not save some of the slides I made.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: But I want to talk about this very short, seven
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: and a half page testimony. This is number one. This
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: is the one that is not in my PowerPoint for
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: some weird reason of Bill Shelley on April seventh, nineteen
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: sixty four. And you know, they they go, where were
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: you born? I was born in Gunter, Texas High school education.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: What have you been doing since then? I worked in
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: defense plants a little bit during the war and started
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: working at the TSBD October twenty ninth, nineteen fifty five.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: Mister ball, I guess I have to go to the
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: bathroom and returns and then asks him the same questions
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: that I guess this other lady asked him, and he
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: was kind of short with them. He goes, I already
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: told her, which is kind of funny and.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: Sound to fuck around, Joe. I mean, he already told her.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so on the twenty second of November nineteen sixty three,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: did you see him come to work that morning? No,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: he was at work when I already filled was filling orders.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: We already went through that. Where did you go out front? Oh,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: several people were out there waiting to watch the mortar
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: cad and I went out to join them. And who
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: was there? Lloyd Viles of mcgirl McGraw hill, Sarah Stanton,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: Wesley Fraser and Billy Lovelady joined us afterwards, standing just
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: outside the glass doors and the entrance. Did you see
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: the mortar cake pass? Yes? What did you hear? Well?
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: I heard something sounded like it was a firecracker, a
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: slight pause, and then two more a little bit closer together, which,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: of course, Rob we've heard from a ton of wit
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: is right, second and third shots being closer together.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: Now this is a guy comes This next bit comes
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: from a guy who's on the rifle team and in
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: the army.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, what seemed to be the direction of the source
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: of the sound sounded like it came from the west,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: mister ball, It sounded like it came from the west.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: Question mark, Yes, then what happened Gloria Cavalry from Southwestern
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: Publishing ran back up there crying and said the president
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: has been shot. And Billy Lovelady and myself took across
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: the street to that little old island and we stopped
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: there for a minute. Across the street you mean directly south, yes,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: lightly to the right. You know where that the light
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: is there? Yes, the little old street runs in front
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: of our building in Elm Street. It dead ends. There's
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: concrete between the two yards. Blah blah blah. You went
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: to the concrete between the two Elm streets, yes, where
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: they split. Well, officer, you went out there, and then
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: what did you do? Well, officers started running down to
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: the railroad yards, and Billy and I walked down that way.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: How did you get down that way? What course did
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: you take? We walked down the middle of the street.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: Did you see mister truly, mister Trully as an officer
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: and an officer going to the building. Yes, we saw
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: them right in front of the building while we were
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: on the island, which, of course we showed a video
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: where they were walking back in where they were not
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: on the island. While you were out there before you
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: walked to the railroad yards. Yes, do you have any
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: idea how long it was? It would have been three
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: or four minutes, I would say, because this girl that
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: ran back up there was near the car. That was
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: when the president was hit. He goes on and on
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: about kind of his location.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: Now, pay attention because that part is very important. So
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: they stood on the front steps for three or four
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: minutes until Gloria Calvary came back and said the president
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: had been shot. And that is when they decided to
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: walk down the street, right And that what he just said, yep, yep, okay,
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: keep that in mind.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: Did you see them going to the building truly? In
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: Baker No, we didn't watch that long. But they were
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: at the first step like they were fixing to go in.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: Were they moving at the time, walking or running? Well,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: they were moving, yes, running, couldn't swear to that. Then
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: he saw they went back into the side door into
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: the shipping room. When he came to the shipping room,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: did you see anybody atie Piper? What was he doing?
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: He was coming back from where he was watching the
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: mortar gate in the southwest corner of the shipping room.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: And then they go into Vicky Adams a little bit.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: Well, what did he say about Vicky Adams? Don't skip
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: over that. Did you see her?
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: Did you ever see Vicky Adams? I saw her, Shelley said,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: but I don't remember where I saw her. You don't
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: remember whether you saw her when you came back. It
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: was after we entered the building. You think you did
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: see her right after you entered the building? Question mark, Yes, sir,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: I thought it was on the fourth floor a while
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: after that. Now, did police come into the building, yes, sir,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: they started coming in pretty fast. Did you go with
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: them anyplace? Yes? Mister truly left me guarding the elevator
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: right when she then delegated to Doherty not to let
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: anybody up or down the elevator or stairway, and some
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: plane clothes men came in. I don't know whether they
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: were Secret Service or FBI or what. They wanted me
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: to take them upstairs. So we went up and started
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: searching the various floors. So Shelley is involved in the
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: search here. Did you go up on the sixth floor, yes, sir,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: Were you there when they found anything up there? I was?
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: I believe I was on the sixth floor when they
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: found the gun. But we were searching all parts of
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: that floor, and they're going to chicken bones and skip
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: that talks about Charles given.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: Now the important point here, folks, is that Victoria Adams
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: has always stated that immediately after the shots she came
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 3: down from the fourth floor in the stairway. Okay, you
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: got to understand what Ship is saying.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: Here, is that.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: They stood around for three or four minutes after the
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: shots until Gloria Calvary came back and said the President's
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: been shot. Then they started walking towards the grass.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: They were turned around by some policemen and they came
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: back in the side door on the first floor, and
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: it was there they encountered Roy Truley, who told them
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: who told Shelley to watch the elevator, and they asked
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: him to do he see Victoria Adams And he says yes,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: but I think it was later that day up on
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: the fourth floor, which directly contradicts Victoria Adams stating that
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: she immediately came down the stairs and saw Billy Lovelady
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: and Bill Shelley standing by the rear doors by the
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 3: elevator of the first floor of the school book Depository.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: Yes, they seem to have got their story straight by
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: this time, and as much as to discredit Oudam of
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: the story.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: Well, I would say her story is discredited by video evidence.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: We have.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: Shelley and Lovelady walking down the street towards the grassy Kno,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: they didn't immediately run back into the building and stand
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: by the elevators, because that's when Victory Adams would have
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 3: encountered them. She says immediately after the shots they headed
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: for the stairwell and then came down to the first floor.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: And then she says that she went out the back door,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: started going to the grassy knoll, got turned around, blah
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: blah blah. So it seems like her version of events
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: is skewed.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I one hundred percent agree, And let's see
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: and then we have so this was I guess April seventh,
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: and he was mister William Shelley was reinterviewed in Dallas
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: by mister Joseph Ball. And this is less than three pages,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: so they really get to the point here. They ask
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: Shelley about the guns brought in by a castor right
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: on the twentieth of November and the thirty odd six
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: Mauser on November twenty second, when is the last time
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: you saw Oswald ten or fifteen minutes before twelve on
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: the first floor near the telephone. Did you ever see
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: him again at the police station? What they brought him in?
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: You didn't see him anytime in the building after twelve,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: I did not know. Did you see him after the
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: president was shot? No? Did you at any time after
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: the president was shot tell Oswalt to go home? No, sir.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: Did you tell anyone to go home? No? You didn't
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: tell anyone to leave the building at all. No, sir. Now,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: when you recall going up to the sixth floor after
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: the shooting, do you, yes, Do you go over to
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: the southwest corner of the building where there was a
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: window open, No, they had it blocked off. Did you
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: at a later time go over there, No, sir. Not
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: for several days afterwards, after they released us to go
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: back to work in the corner, we kept out for
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: several days. Then they go about like two pages into
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: these rolling reader boxes and Oswald's clipboard. It's like a
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: bunch of bullshit, completely exactly.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 3: Yes, it was loved lady in the police station.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you can tell by your shirt and his
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: bull spot.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's definitely am.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: So then after he testifies to the Warrant Commission for
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: the second time, you have this interesting FBI A key
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: person's report. William Shelley, the Seleneus Department TSBD, advised that
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: he observed Charles Gibbons Warehouse been employed by the TSBD,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: eating a sandwich on the sixth floor. He later learned
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: that from Bonnie Ray Williams that he Williams had eaten
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: fried chicken. Uh. Shelley stated, according to his recollection, the
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: police officers found these items on the sixth floor, three
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: double windows away from the south east corner. Shelley stated
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: he also believed the soft drink bottle the police officers
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: found it was with the chicken bones. So they're still
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: investigating him after this.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: But let me real quick, well, Sally says. She says, No,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: I meant walking away. Uh, not one hundred percent, Sally,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: because you know we have the back of them, but
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 3: their outfits match. We have Shelley in a suit, we
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: have love Lady in the shirt, and they were on
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: the steps one hundred percent, and they are doing what
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: they said they did, which is walking away from the
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 3: front steps towards the knoll. So I would say it's
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 3: like without you know, seeing their face.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean eye witness testimony as only not gonna wind,
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: not consistently all the time.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 3: Video never lies, that.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: Is true, Tate never lae. Well, let's go to love Ladies.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: Day of Affidavid DPD worked at the TSBD on the
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: sixth floor along with Danny Arsa, Jack Dolerdy, Bill Shelley,
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: Charles Gibbons. When the President came by, Bill Shelley and
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: I was standing on the steps front of the building
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: where I worked. After he passed and was about fifty
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: yards past us, I heard three shots. There was a
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: slight pause after the first shot, then the next two
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: were right close together. I could not tell where the
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: shots came from, but sounded like they were across the
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: street from us. Again, he's not saying they came from
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: above my head, which is interesting. However, that could have
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: been caused by the echo. After it was over, we
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: went back into the building and I took some police
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: officers up to search the building. I did not see
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: anyone around the building that was not supposed to be there.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: Our lunch period is from twelve to twelve forty five.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: All of us had left such floor to see the president.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: Now here's another inconsistency with Billy Lovelady. Instead of saying, yeah,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: me and Bill Shelley walked down towards the grass, you know,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 3: to see what was up, and then came back into
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 3: the building, he says, after it was over, we went
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: back into the building and I took some police officers
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 3: on to search the building. Now, he just maybe leaving
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 3: out the part of him and Shelley walking, but it
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: sounds like leaving that part out that after the shots
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: they just went right back in the building, which would
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 3: make it possible for Victoria Adams to see them back
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 3: by the back door.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 3: But you just don't know. With Billy love Lady, he
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 3: was not the He was not the sharpest knife in
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 3: the drawer of folks mentally.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and uh and and this is actually his handwritten
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: DPD statement, Rob that was transcribed. But there is something
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: here that I want to highlight. If you can see
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: my cursor after it was over, let's test my cursor here.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: After it was over, we went back into the building
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: and went to work. Crossed out part that's not transcribed,
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: which is why you got to check the DPD archives too. So, yeah,
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: this is the FBI. Love Lady's statement, he was in
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: front with his foreman, Bill Shelley, standing on the front
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: doorstep at about twelve thirty watching the presidential mortarcade pass.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: At about this time, he heard three shots. At first,
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: he thought it was a firecracker or the backfire of
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: a motorcycle. He could not tell from which direction the
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: shots came, he said. Immediately after hearing the shots, he
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: and Shelley started running towards the presidential car Okay, a
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: little more context here, but it sped away on Elm
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: Street under the Triple Underpass. He and Shelley then returned
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: to the TSBD building. During this time, he saw no
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: one run out of the building or saw no suspicious individuals.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: Love Lady advised that one Lee Oswalt was employed about
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: one month or two ago at the TSBD as an
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: order fill as much as he had access to the
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: entire building where books and school supplies are stored, specifically
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: in the basement the first, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh floors.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: Love Lady advised that one Lee Oswalt was employed about
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: one or two months ago and as oh Okay. Lovelady
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: described Oswalt as a loner, who never seemed to be
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: very friendly or associated with any of the other employees.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: At lunch periods, Oswalt would go to the second floor
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: on occasion by himself, where he would eat his lunch
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: and read a newspaper. If he did eat his lunch
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: in the lunch room with the other employees, he would
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: stay by himself and quote always had his face in
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: the newspaper. On November twenty second, Love Lady saw Oswalt
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: at about ten am on the sixth floor, at which
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: time was filling in order. The last contact he had
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: with Oswalt was about eleven to fifty am when Love Lady,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: Givens RSA and another Negro male started down from the
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: sixth floor on the two elevators to take their lunch break.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: As they passed the fifth floor, love Lady heard Oswald
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: call for them to stop. Hey guys, stop the elevator. Elevator,
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: let me own, but one of the four told them
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: we're going to wash our hands, sorry, bro, and did
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: not stop for him. Doesn't sound like someone that's camping
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: out on the sixth floor, but that's just me. After
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: the shooting and his return to the building, the Love
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: Lady did not see Oswald at any time.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 3: But the interesting part from that document is that he
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: says he took off running, which we cannot corroborate with
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: the video evidence. They started walking. They may have been
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 3: walking fast, but they were definitely not breaking out in
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 3: a run.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: Right right, Yeah, So this is the same. Well, this
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: is an FBI report the same day or within a
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: day of the Shelley report I read. But I want
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: to point out one thing here. I heard several loud
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: reports which I first thought to be firecrackers, and which
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: appeared to me to be in the direction of Elm
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: Street Viaduct, just ahead of the motorcade. I did not,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: at any time believe the shots had come from the
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: Texas school Book Depository building Billy Lovelady four and a
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: half months later, So that is very interesting. I'm trying
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: to pull up because I have Billy love Lady in
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty. Let me see if I have this here,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: because my power point seems to have messed up. Was
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: under gun charges mhm and Harry. Let me get a
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: couple of comments here. Something's really going wrong with my
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: PowerPoint here. All the shit I prepared is not gone.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: So let me let me figure this out.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 3: Oh all right, what's up, zendor?
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: Hey, he's endor.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 3: Welcome in, welcome in.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: All right, I got it here And this is also
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: from Primer dot com. On January eleventh, nineteen sixty three,
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: Billy Lovelady was interviewed at his place of employment PSBD
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: by special agents of the FBI, Lee and Holt because
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: he had not paid his previous fines for his previous
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: gun charges. And let me, I'm just gonna go a
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: couple ahead here because Office September nineteen sixty Office of
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: Special Investigations, Andrews Air Force Base, so Lovelady was in
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: the Air Force advised three thirty eight caliber Smith and
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: Western revolvers were sold to an officer in North Beach,
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: Maryland by unidentified individuals believed to be Air Force Air
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: Force Base Andrews Air Force Base personnel revolvers tentatively identified
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: by OSI, which I believe is Office of Special Investigations
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: as government property. Paul Krauss, Charles Haywood, and Love Lady,
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: military personnel attached to the one thousand first Base Supplies
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: Sergeant Squadron, Andrews Air Force Base were charged on the
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: same date. I'm sorry that fond is terrible. Here a
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: true bill was returned charging Billy love Lady with two
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: counts of violation of Title eighteen, Section six forty one
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: to wit. One or about the third day of September
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty at Andrews Air Force Base, well, love Lady
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: did receive, conceal, and retain with intent to convert to
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: his own use, and gain a certain thing of value
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: to wit. One thirty eight caliber Smith and Western revolver,
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: which was the property of the United States Air Force.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: So him and his fellow skufuzas are stealing guns from
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: the Air Force base and selling them off base. Love
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: Lady did receive and retain his own for his own
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: use and gain a certain thing of value to wit.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: Two thirty eight caliber revolvers valued at less than hundred dollars,
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: which were the property of the US Air Force, knowing
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: the same aim to have been stolen. So they're saying
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: he he did know that they were stolen. He was
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: actually apprehended, So this was in Maryland, right. He was
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: apprehended in January of nineteen sixty three by the FBI
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: on a bench warrant issued by the prosecutor in Baltimore
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: for this but interestingly enough, Rob guess who paid his fine?
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 3: Right truly close, Bill Shelley O V.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: Campbell, vice President TSPD, would advance him seventy five dollars
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: again like seven point fifty quick math to pay the
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: president to pay the remaining balance of the fine if
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: the charges would be dropped. On January ninth, subject appear
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: before the US Commissioner Hill and was advised stated that
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: payment by Billy Lovelady to the clerk is acceptable to
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: the court and the warrant will then be dismissed. So
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: definitely someone you could have leverage over, especially if you
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: know you're in some trouble. I mean, I guess it
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: was semi concluded by then, but you still had the
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: vice president OVI Campbell pay it off. You think he
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: was him a favor to, right.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 3: Well, this is something that folks who think that the
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 3: school book depository was a little something more sinister than
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 3: just a book depository. Point two, when you have the variety,
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 3: if you will, of colorful employees working at such a place.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 3: And just just to comment real quick about Shelley's alleged
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 3: intelligence background, the dude was literally in the armed forces
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 3: for a cup of coffee. I mean we saw his
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 3: high school picture that was taken in forty two, and
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 3: by nineteen forty five he's working at the school book depository.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 3: So what was he in the service for two years?
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, you got to get through basic training and
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 3: all this other bullshit and figure out what you're going
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 3: to do. So what was you know, he didn't go
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 3: right into being a super spy for a year and
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 3: then leave to go work at a freaking book supplier,
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 3: you know? Or is this all part of the conspiracy too?
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 3: They put what you know, they put Bill Shelley in
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 3: place to run this super secret depository that was really
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 3: moving guns around and along with books. And you might say, Rob,
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 3: you sound crazy, but there are people saying this, and
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 3: I'll get there in a minute. Yeah, I don't know
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 3: out real quick. I got a pin comment here sure
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 3: from Jack didn't Love Lady have a Suspicious death right
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 3: before the HSCA. He did? It was during the sh HSCA.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 3: I can't remember. I think I think they did get
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 3: to talk to him, because I believe Robert Groden went
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 3: and photographed him when he was part of the HSCA
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 3: in the shirt that he was wearing that day. Supposedly
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 3: and I just remember an affid David from his wife,
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 3: from Lovelady's wife stating that this is the shirt that
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 3: he was wearing that day. We've kept it all these
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 3: years in a box and put it away just in
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 3: case this day ever came. Now, it didn't fit as
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 3: good as it did in nineteen sixty three, of course,
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I believe he died at like age forty two.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 3: He was a relatively young guy to have a heart attack,
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 3: And of course, during a investigation like this, when suspicious
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 3: deaths are sus definitely doesn't doesn't take away from the
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 3: whole lore of this thing, right right, Yeah.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: I just questioned what else he could have given them
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: at that point.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, that's implying that he's part of this
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 3: sinister thing. Now, Joe, What I did find out about
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 3: this where the hell is? And it harkens back to
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 3: the book A Reasonable Doubt by Henry Hurt, I believe
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 3: is when this theory first started getting put out there.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 3: A suggestion of smuggling activities within the school book depository
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 3: comes in the form of boxes that are too large
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 3: to be practical containers of books. Henry Hurt, author of
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 3: Reasonable Doubt, discovered such boxes while investigating the claims of
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 3: an alleged conspirator. The man said that a large wooden
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 3: box thirty six by forty eight by sixty and that's
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 3: almost the dimensions of a normal day wooden palette, just
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 3: one side is less than a foot of the other
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 3: and then five feet tall, was used to import arms
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 3: into the building and contained a false bottom where rifles
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 3: were stored. The largest typical books, I'm sorry, the largest
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 3: typical box, size four books, was twelve by fourteen by
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 3: eighteen and are made out of cardboard and when filled
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 3: with books, weighed fifty five pounds. And these are the
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 3: books that we see. Are the boxes that we see
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 3: strewn all over the sixth floor. You know, they're smaller
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 3: size that could be moved around, and they contained you
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 3: know what, twelve or twenty twenty books whatever. Ye But
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty three, when the building was vacant, Henry
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 3: Hurt visited and he saw seven large wooden boxes on
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 3: the sixth floor, left behind by the school book depository
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 3: when it moved to a new location in nineteen seventy.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 3: All seven boxes had the name of school book publishers
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 3: stamped on them. One label reads Coolook Depository five hundred
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 3: red Pony Books by John Steinbeck from Bob's Merrill. Three
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 3: of the three of thus seven boxes appear in a
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 3: photograph in his book. By comparing the window next to them,
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 3: which measured fourteen inches off the floor, one box was
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 3: about fifteen by thirty by sixty inches, and thus had
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 3: an estimated capacity of fifteen cubic feet. Since a cubic
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 3: phot of books is about twenty five to thirty pounds,
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 3: a box just as this, when loaded with books, would
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 3: have weighed up to four hundred and fifty pounds, too
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 3: heavy to manage with a handcart and really too heavy
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 3: to be lugging up the stairs. I mean, I guess
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 3: they could have taken the elevator. You know what I mean?
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 3: Right now? As a quick aside, CIA officer William Harvey
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 3: Joe maybe you've heard of.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: Him, I have. He has been in the news for
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: some well.
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 3: After he retired from the CIA, he went to work
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 3: for Bob's Merrill Publishing in the last years of his
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 3: life as a law editor for them.
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 3: Now there's a guy by the name of Joe Bergen
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 3: who visited his father at the four eleven Elm Street building.
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 3: He could not remember when this occurred, but it was
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 3: before the assassination, but after extensive remodeling had been done
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 3: on the third and fourth floors to add office suites
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 3: for the publishing companies. This would put his visit in
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 3: a period sometime during the summer or fall of sixty three.
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 3: When Joe entered the building, he took a recently installed
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 3: passenger elevator to the fourth floor. Upon exiting the elevator,
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 3: he saw a short hallway. To his left was a
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 3: door that led into the office of Scott Foresman, And
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 3: at the end of that hallway, to his right was
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 3: another door, and out of curiosity, he opened it and
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 3: saw a large storage area that took over half of
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 3: the square footage of the fourth floor. In this area
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 3: where numerous cardboard boxes four feet square by five feet high.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 3: Since the floors were not strong enough to accommodate forkliffs.
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 3: He wondered how the warehouse men could have moved such
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 3: enormous boxes. So you know, there there's talk and this
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 3: this all comes from again from Henry Hurt's book and
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 3: was aspounded upon uh later by William Weston which I
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 3: did a couple of shows about and it was called
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 3: his article is called the spider Web of the school
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 3: Book Depository or something like that. It was something like
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 3: that that he.
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: Published it into the Spider's Web double.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, in the third or the fourth decade, one of
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 3: those publications back in the day.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah decade, believe fourth one of them. Yeah, and fiddle Fork.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: I had this, said Operation forty being ran out of
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: there maybe, and I had that start before you mentioned
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: William Marty.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and love Lady conveniently died of a heart attack. Yeah.
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not like super on board with you know,
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: he was taken out because but you never know. And
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: James said, wow, that is that sure was a slap
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: on the wrist. Yeah. I mean he literally stole pistols
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: from Andrews Air Force Base.
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 3: Sold them. Billian got caught.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: And then years later yeah yeah, and they got arrested
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: in January sixty three for not paying the fine, only
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: for O. V. Campbell, vice president of the TSPD, to
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: pay it for him.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 3: So he's a very hard worker.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: Joe, Yeah, okay, I must have been.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 3: Now let's get into some of the crazier things. This is, uh,
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 3: if I can find my place here see where all
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 3: this ship comes from. Where is my ELC Glaize letter.
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 3: God damn it. I've literally just had it, because this
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 3: is what is going to take us into the further
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 3: into the conspiracy realm of things.
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: Folks, I think I have it. Let me know if
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: this is? It is? This it?
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 3: I can't see. Hold on, Okay, here it is. I
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 3: got it, Joe.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 3: So there was a letter written to the HSCA in
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 3: nineteen seventy seven. It says, Dear Persons, House of Representatives
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 3: Assassination Committee, Washington, d C. I have some information concerning
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 3: the assassination of President Kennedy that I wish to submit
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 3: for your scrutiny. While working as a journalist in Dallas
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy four, I met a person who says
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 3: he was at that time working for Bill Shelley, who
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 3: says he was Lee Harvey Oswald's superior at the time
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 3: of the assassination. According to this person, shortly after going
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 3: to work for Bill Shelley, she and another new employee
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 3: were subjected to some rather odd questioning when considering that
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 3: they were hired as clerks. Two men who identified themselves
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 3: with ID as members of the FBI approached the two
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 3: new employees at work and took them to an empty
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 3: room inside the building. The two new employees were administered
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 3: a written questionnaire asking about their opinions of current topics
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 3: of the day. After completing the questionnaire, the two FBI
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 3: men asked the employees' point blank if they were members
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 3: of the CIA. This incident occurred in nineteen sixty nine.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 3: The incident interested me enough to question the FBI about
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 3: it and possibly do a story on it. However, the
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 3: woman became terrified at the mention of it, and she
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 3: said she would deny if she if I ever tried
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 3: to publicize the incident. She and her husband left Dallas
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 3: shortly afterward. I must admit that my own fear of
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 3: getting involved in this investigation has prevented me from writing
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 3: you earlier, and I apologize. Please excuse this messy letter
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 3: of all times to break down, my typewriter chose tonight
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 3: to do it. Obviously, my handwriting has long been broken down.
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 3: If you should need to contact me, you may do
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 3: so in care of the Lubbock Avalanche Journal newspaper in Lubbock, Texas.
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 3: I'm a reporter there. God bless you all. Nervously, yours,
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 3: Elsie Dean Glaze, Right, yeah.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: The Glaze letters. How does that referred to?
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 3: Yes, now, Elsie Glaze. You know whoever this mysterious person
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 3: was that wrote these letters had many meetings with Bill
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 3: Shelley in the early seventies.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: H and.
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 3: Bill Shelley allegedly said some things in here that are
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 3: very interesting. And here's another one. This is well, let's
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 3: see me sure that's the right one. Sorry, folks, there's
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 3: a lot a lot going on here. Okay, yeah, okay.
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 3: So there was another letter written, this one in nineteen
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 3: eighty nine to Doug Killner and Frank Morrow of the
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 3: Alternative Information Network located in Austin, Texas, regarding the assassination
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 3: of President John F. Kennedy. Dear mister Kellner and mister Morrow.
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 3: While working as a journalist in nineteen seventy four and
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 3: early seventy five, I met and spoke with Lee Harvey,
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 3: Oswald's supervisor at the Texas school Book Depository in Dallas, Texas.
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 3: Excuse me. At this time, the school book depository had
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 3: been relocated to a warehouse near the intersection of Royal
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 3: Lane and Interstate thirty five. During the same time, I
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 3: also met and spoke with relevant employees who later worked
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 3: for Lee Harvey Oswell's supervisor, Bill Shelley. After the assassination
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 3: of Kennedy, one of these said employees, her husband and child,
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 3: disappeared without a trace a few hours after granting me
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 3: an interview. So he's harkening back to the letter that
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 3: he wrote the HCA. In addition, all my interview notes
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 3: and tapes inexplicably disappeared. Finally, under threats and intense harassment
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 3: from the Dallas police, I was forced to flee Dallas
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 3: in early seventy five. In late seventy seven, while working
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 3: as a reporter for the Avalanche Journal in Lubbock, Texas,
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 3: I submitted written testimony to the United States House of
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 3: Representatives Robert Blakey. My testimony included numerous meetings with a
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 3: man named Bill Shelley. I am no longer certain of
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 3: the correct spelling of the last name. Shelley was Oswald's
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 3: supervisor at the time, and Shelley claims to have been
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 3: an intelligence officer during World War Two and thereafter joined
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 3: the CIA. So this guy, Elsie Glade, is claiming that
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 3: Bill Shelley told him that after leaving the Service and
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 3: being an intelligence officer in World War Two that he
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 3: joined the CIA. Now, folks, I'm not very good at
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 3: math and dates and all that, but I'm pretty sure
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 3: that if he started working into school book depository in
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 3: nineteen forty five, the CIA wasn't even established until nineteen
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 3: forty seven, give him a couple of years to get
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 3: the shit together and hire people up and figure out
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 3: what you're doing. You know, you're looking at forty eight
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 3: forty nine before they really get rolling in the thick
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 3: of the shit by like nineteen fifty. Right now, can
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 3: somebody work in two places at one time? Joe? Is
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 3: that possible?
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: Poss I mean possible. In a documentary record.
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 3: I guess, Bill Shelley claims that he was arrested by
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 3: the Dallas police and formally charged. Joe so not detained.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 3: He was arrested and formally charged with the assassination of
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 3: President Kennedy. He claims the charges were later dropped after
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 3: Oswald was arrested, but he stated that he turned away
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 3: several newspapers and magazines offering huge amounts of money for
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 3: his personal account of the assassination, and he refused to
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 3: let me quote him or use his name in print
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 3: for this information. One of the aforementioned employees, which the
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 3: name I can't recall, stated that when she went back
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 3: to work for Bill Shelley at the School of Depository
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 3: in the early seventies, she was interviewed for the job
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 3: by some type of governminators, which we already talked about.
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 3: THEBI asked her if she was CIA, which is weird.
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 3: The employee said that fellow employees were subjected to similar
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 3: job interviews by government agents. As mentioned. The woman, her husband,
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 3: and young child disappeared within hours after my interview. Their
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 3: apartment looked as if no one had ever lived in it,
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 3: and all I remember is that her husband was previously
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 3: a member of the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band. She didn't
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 3: show up for work the next day and didn't pick
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 3: up her final paycheck. Their whereabouts are completely unknown. Maybe
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 3: we'll have to check the Nitty Gritty Dirt Bands tour
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 3: schedule in nineteen seventy four. I don't know. And then
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 3: he says, in so far as I know, the information
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 3: has never been made public, feel free to use any
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 3: part of it as you.
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 2: Please.
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 3: Please contact me before mentioning my name to anyone. I
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 3: just want to be forewarned. There's a very large spider
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 3: guarding this web of secrecy. I have entered their webs,
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 3: but this one is different because the spider leaves the
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 3: web and stalks to pray sometimes for many years. By
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 3: the way, I'm a mister and not a miss. As
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 3: a letter from Blakie indicates in solidarity name inked out
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 3: C see my will huh so this guy is pretty
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 3: scared Elsie Glaze. Right now, William Weston kind of pontificates
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 3: here a little bit. And you know this is by
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 3: this time is in the late eighties, early nineties, and
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 3: he's saying what could all be a hoax? But it
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 3: sounds a seer. There's a lot of facts that Elsie
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 3: Glaze gives out that should be easy enough to verify.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 3: I would think, uh, you know, like if a reporter
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 3: named when Glaze has ever worked for the Lubbic newspaper
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 3: the Avalanche should be pretty easy to establish that, right.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 3: If a journalist named Glaize was living in Dallas in
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 3: seventy four seventy five should be easy enough to establish.
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 3: If there is or was an alternative information that worked
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 3: in Austin, or if Kilner and mar existed and are
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 3: real people. And remember, ever receiving this letter, if it's
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 3: true that Shelley was affiliated in some way with the
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 3: CIA or US intelligence, that would be disturbing and potentially
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 3: significant development. Well, no shit. So these tips were put
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 3: forth by researcher Larry Harris. So William Weston decided he
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 3: was going to try to follow up and figure this
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 3: shit out once and for all. Right, So, apparently Doug
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 3: Kilner and Frank Morrow are real people. And they were
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 3: co host of a program called Alternative Views on the
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 3: Alternative Excuse Me Information Network that was founded by them too.
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 3: It was first broadcast in nineteen seventy eight on public
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 3: access television in Austin, Texas. In nineteen eighty four, they
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 3: began sending tapes of their programs to public access channels
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 3: in Dallas and San Antonio and then to other cities
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 3: around the country, hence the name of the umbrella organization,
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 3: the Alternative Information Network. I called Doug Kellner and he
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 3: answered the phone. I described to him the contents of
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 3: the letter, and he said he never saw it, and
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 3: said it was strange that I should possess a letter
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 3: that was addressed to him He asked that a copy
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 3: of the letter be sent to him to his home,
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 3: not the business address, and that after he read it
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 3: he would check into it. Two weeks later, I made
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 3: a follow up call on Kilner's that his partner, Frank Morrow,
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 3: vaguely remembered the letter but could not provide any additional information.
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 3: I next called John pets Joe, the manager of the
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 3: nitty Gritty dirt band Oh Okay. The band started out
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 3: in sixty six in Long Beach, California, and began or
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 3: became known for its unique blend of country and rock.
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 3: It achieved commercial success in nineteen seventy with a hit
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 3: song entitled mister boud Jangles.
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 2: Oh Really, I know that song?
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 3: Maybe you've heard it?
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 3: Uh. In nineteen ninety two, the band was still active,
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 3: touring the country and recording albums. I asked Pete if
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 3: he knew any member of the band who disappeared in
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 3: Dallas in the mid seventies, and he said there were
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 3: two musicians who had been with the band since the
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 3: beginning and that he would speak to them. During a
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 3: follow up call, he told me that the two musicians
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 3: were not in contact with any former members of the band.
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 3: And knew nothing of their whereabouts or their current activities.
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 3: It was not until ninety nine that I located and
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 3: spoke with Leslie Thompson, one of the original members, and
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 3: although he left the band in December of seventy three,
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 3: he was certain that the musician who disappeared in Dallas
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 3: was not among the core members of the band. Instead,
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 3: he might have been one of the temporary musicians. In
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 3: the mid seventies, the band employed a ten piece orchestra
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 3: to back them up while touring and recording.
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 3: So again, the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band is a big
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 3: ensemble band with some main members that stayed as its core,
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 3: and then it brought in other musicians to play with
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 3: it and record with them. So it's possible, but nobody
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 3: really remembers exactly who in the hell these people were.
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 3: But that's not the end of the story. So fast
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 3: forward to William Weston. William Weston gets a letter in
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 3: nineteen ninety nine, Joe, and it says this, thank you
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 3: for your kind words and interest. All that I know
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 3: and the attending dead ends were passed along to a
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 3: researcher and author in Dallas a few years ago. He's
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 3: about to publish his book, and as you can understand,
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 3: friendship and loyalty make me reluctant to discuss this matter
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 3: with anyone else. And perhaps it's a moot point anyway,
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 3: because based on what you've told me, you know more
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 3: than I do. Mine was a happenstance, meeting, in short,
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 3: casual friendship with a man who appeared to have fallen
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 3: through the cracks. Had the seemingly insignificant trail of breadcrumbs
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 3: I stumbled across had not been so he avidly guarded,
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 3: I might never have given it a second thought. My
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 3: actions were less courageous than they were the result of
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 3: being naive. I was up to my neck before I
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 3: realized it. You may have noticed that at the end
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 3: of my letter to the Alternative Views, I carbon copied
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 3: to my will because he was scared to death. It
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 3: was intended as a jab at myself, lest I get
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 3: too full of myself rereading it fifty years from the
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 3: time I wrote it. With that, I passed along my
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 3: rather tiny candle, plus my best wishes and encouragement. Those
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 3: generations who were there in sixty three are grateful that
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 3: people like you are continuing to pursuit and taking another
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 3: look at events which may have been too shocking for
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 3: the rest of us to ever fully comprehend. Perhaps that
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 3: is why I was so unprepared or in that brief
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 3: step into the looking glass. Sincerely, Dean Glaze. As far
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 3: as I know, the unknown Dallas author who interviewed has
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 3: not published book yet. Elsie Dean Glaze passed away on
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 3: November fifteenth, twenty nineteen, and there is an obituary from
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 3: the Austin American State Statesman newspaper published on December fifteenth,
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 3: twenty nineteen. Folks, Elsie Dean Glaze, age sixty six is
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 3: celebrated by his family for compassion, humor, and willingness to
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 3: help family and friends at large. He was an accomplished
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 3: journalist and author and worked as a radio engineer in
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 3: his early career. And blah blah, blah, blah blah. Dean
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 3: was the son of Elsie Glaize and Geneva Glaize, who
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 3: was born in Lubbock, Texas. He passed away on November fifteenth,
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, after a fall causing a brain injury. Well,
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 3: that's a tough way to go. He has loved and
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 3: will always be remembered by his wife Sylvia, daughter Hayley,
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 3: and sister brother's niece, his nephews and friends. He enjoyed
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 3: giving to others and loved the companionship of his four dogs.
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 3: Many notes and gifts, often created by him are left
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 3: for us as a tribute to his kindness and love.
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 2: So he was a.
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 3: Junior Elsie Glean, Elsie Glades junior. So that's some crazy stuff, Joe.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 3: Now I've got a couple other things. You got some
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 3: comments you want to get to.
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just throwing a couple up. Sally's going to bed,
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 2: of course, she's like five six hours out of us.
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 2: So good night, miss Sally. And uh fiddle Fork says,
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 2: I'm very familiar with the dirt bandies had to be
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 2: the side musicians because the core band was together for
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 2: a long time, right, Yeah, I mean it's it's not
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: like unlikely to like hire an orchestra section or like
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 2: you know, trumpets or whatever, you know, for some certain
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 2: type of shows.
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 3: So this is a picture, I believe from the Tom
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 3: Aliyah film. There was recorded inside the school book depository
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 3: on the sixth floor and elsewhere in the building on
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 3: the twenty second of November in nineteen sixty three.
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, cops their coffee.
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 3: Bill Shelley is getting himself some coffee along with a
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 3: bunch of other cops. He's hanging out and chilling with
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 3: them up on the sixth floor. So that's kind of
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 3: proof that he was there.
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and taking up you know. So you have Truly
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 2: and Baker going up, and then I guess you have
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: Shelley and love Lady going up with officers at a
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 2: different point. Right.
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 3: Interesting, And here's a still image of the moving film
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 3: that from the couch film that Joe showed earlier, and
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 3: then highlighted in the background of the two individuals that
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 3: look a lot like Bill Lovelady on the left, I'm sorry,
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 3: Bill Shelley on the left and Bill Lovelady on the right.
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 3: The clothes kind of match what they were wearing hairstyles,
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 3: and they're walking down towards the grassy knoll there. Let's
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 3: get rid of that one. I'm knocking to ease out
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 3: Joe as we go. We've seen that one already.
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and one of his biggest features is that his
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 2: cheek bones that are like really skinny, right, like they
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 2: come in a lot.
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 3: Like those Yeah, you know, now here's something that kind
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 3: of contradicted something, okay, And this is from I found
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 3: this on his finding Great page.
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and.
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 3: It says here and they pull shit from like ancestry
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 3: and documents and all this stuff. Right, So down towards
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 3: the bottom, it says William Hoysch Shelley died on September sixth,
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 3: nineteen ninety six. They pulled that from the Texas death indecks.
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 3: Right there is a couple of years, and right above
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 3: that in the middle you have William Hotch Shelley, the
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 3: social Security death indecks when he was born and when
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 3: he died last living in Irving. Now at the top
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 3: here this is odd to me. Us social Security applications
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 3: and claims. This is when you start drawing. You either
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 3: start drawing your social Security benefits or you apply to
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 3: get them early for some reason, like you can't work anymore,
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 3: or you have some kind of condition, or your wife
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 3: dies or something. Right right, right, are you.
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 2: Referencing the nineteen thirty six him being ten years old
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: at the time.
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 3: No, that's just the time frame of Social Security applications
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 3: and claims. Oh, I see, I see, Okay. What I'm
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 3: referring to here is the submission date of May third,
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 3: nineteen seventy seven. So why is Bill Shelley putting in
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 3: to draw Social Security in nineteen seventy seven at fifty one?
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 3: At fifty one years old? Does that seem odd to
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 3: anybody else? I mean, he damn sure didn't look good
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 3: in his obituary picture, but he would go on to
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 3: live another twenty years almost right, So how bad off
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 3: was he? I don't know. It seems odd to me, Joe,
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 3: that something stuck out to me that says, hmmm, I
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 3: don't know about this, right? And so then I went
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 3: back and I found and figured. So he stopped working
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 3: at the school book depository proper in nineteen seventy, right,
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 3: and he went to work for a publishing company after.
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 2: That, right, Foresman, I believe, which was on the fourth floor, Scott, Foresman,
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 3: Now, at some point, and reading through all of this
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 3: stuff and going on ancestry, I found out where Bill
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 3: Shelley was living in Dallas. So I do what I
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 3: do best. I googled it. Say hello to this mini McMansion.
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 2: It looks pretty nice on drive.
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 3: Now what you see here is one driveway, okay, because
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 3: there are two, This is one driveway. Uh, looks like
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 3: you hit two cars wide, probably three or four cars
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 3: deep on this bitch. You know what I mean. It's
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 3: why you own not brick, it's fucking stone. Yeah right,
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 3: And what you're looking at is all house. There ain't
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 3: no garage there. It's all house, right, because I'll show
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 3: you where the garage.
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 2: Is, Joe, around the side.
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's around back, through the other driveway. It's painted
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 3: blue and it's sitting right in the back there. But
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 3: look at the depth on this house. You see how
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 3: it goes in and then there's a whole nother piece
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 3: on the backside of it that goes way up. Yeah,
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 3: I mean this is a big ass house. How big
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 3: is it? Rob, Well, I'll tell you because Zillo is
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 3: a fucking awesome resource. How about thirty five hundred square
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 3: foot Joe? How about this fucking house was built in
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 3: nineteen sixty nine, Joe. Yeah, so you're telling me Bill
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 3: Shelley could afford, as the supervisor of the Miscellaneous division
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 3: at the School Book Depository, a thirty five hundred square
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 3: foot house containing three bedrooms and two bathrooms at the
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 3: time with a detached to car garage which, oh, by
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 3: the way, adds a lot more square footage to drive ways.
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 3: Built of stone, this is probably new construction at the
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 3: time he bought it. How in the hell do you
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 3: afford this at the time with a wife who probably
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 3: didn't work in kids. Now, I know things were different
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 3: back then, I get that, But there's certain levels to
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 3: this shit, you know what I mean? Yeah, So maybe
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 3: there is something to the fact that he was making
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 3: a little money on the side doing something else, right,
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 3: just saying, not one hundred percent sure, not saying that's
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 3: the case. But he's living in a damn nice house
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 3: in a damn nice neighborhood in Dallas, in a recently
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 3: newly built stone, thirty five hundred square foot house with
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 3: a two car detached garage with two cadum Joe, not one,
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 3: but two driveways. Who the fuck has two driveways?
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it's a very nice house for uh, not me,
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 2: a warehouse manager.
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, not me, manager of the miscellaneous department. Yeah yeah,
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 3: been working at the same job for twenty five years
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 3: at this point. Yeah. How how Maybe his parents were
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 3: loaded and left him a shit ton of money. I
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 3: don't know. Anything's possible. Maybe his wife's family had money.
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 3: Anything's possible, but there's just adds to the lore and
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 3: the texture of the Is there something here with Bill
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 3: Shelley being a little more nefarious than what we just
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 3: think that he was?
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 2: Right? Yeah, I mean, I have no doubt that him
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 2: and love Lady h lied in their Warran commissioned testimony
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 2: to kind of make sure all the timing worked out,
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 2: whether it was discredit discrediting Victoria Adams testimony or what
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 2: they were doing exactly right after the shots. Did they
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 2: run after the car right for the shots? Were they
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 2: in the middle Island? Did they go up to the
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 2: ts to the railroad tracks and watch police search the
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 2: railroad cars, which they said too. Something is not adding
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 2: up here.
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 3: And I think there's a lot of inconsistencies in all
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 3: of this, right, and not just between Shelley, love Lady
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 3: and Adams and Styles and truly and you know, is
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 3: the FBI doing all this shit? Are they changing testimony
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 3: just not getting everything to sync up right, or is
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 3: it the people themselves that are you know, being told
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 3: you know, hey, you know we figured that shots came
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 3: from here. You know, you can't say you heard him
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 3: over here, and blah blah blah, and people just went
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 3: along with whatever they said. But you know, people like
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 3: Victoria Adams said that the FBI just blatantly changed her
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 3: testimony to match with what Shelley and uh love lady said? Right,
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 3: And where's the truth, lie is? I have no flipping
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 3: idea as for the usual. We're lefting with more questions
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 3: than answers. We're trying to bring answers. But when you
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 3: parse all this stuff out, and who knows who this
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 3: Elsie Glaze dude is, right, turns out he was a
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 3: legit guy. Turns out he was a real guy.
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 2: What you know?
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 3: How does he get an interview with Bill Shelley in
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 3: the seventies and Bill Shelley tells him, oh, yeah, I
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 3: worked for the CIA. Where does that come from? And
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 3: I can understand a little bit of I don't think
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 3: the FBI, But maybe I don't think the FBI would
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 3: have been screening potential employees of the school book Depository
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 3: in the late sixties. I could be wrong. You know,
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 3: there was probably a lot of Lookie lowse and freaky
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 3: deeks and people like us who just wanted to get
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 3: and walk around, search shit, take pictures. But I mean
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 3: it was the FBI really screening potential employees, it's possible,
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 3: But for that long after the assassination, I don't know.
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 3: I don't know. You think that at some point they'd
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 3: be like, all right, guys, you are responsible for your
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 3: own security at this point, you know what I mean? Yeah,
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 3: Like we've given you six good long years here or
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 3: three or four good long years here, screaming your employees
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 3: for you. We're done here, you go right right. It's weird, yeah, yeah.
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 2: And when you think about Shelley being born in twenty
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 2: six starting to work at the book Depository at forty five,
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 2: that's nineteen years old, right, There's not that much time
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 2: for him to create some distinguished career and intelligence, right,
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 2: although he definitely could have been doing some shady shit
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 2: on the.
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 3: Side for sure, But like I said, the CIA wasn't
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 3: even formed until forty seven, and he'd already working at
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 3: the school with depository. So how did somebody like that
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 3: in some little shit town in Dallas, Texas? You know,
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 3: is this book depository really really running guns? I mean,
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 3: it seems like a fantastical thing to me. Like the
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 3: much more reasonable scenario would be, you know, one guy
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 3: or a couple guys are running guns like Lauren Hall
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 3: or Lawrence Howard or Johnny Martin or whatever. You know
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 3: you're not. Why would you try to incorporate a legitimate
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 3: state run business into gun running activities ran by the CIA.
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Crazier things have happened. I suppose.
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's definitely true, and.
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 3: Real quick, Joe hold on, sure, Peaches is up in here,
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 3: she says, just Joy didn't want to. I'll see her
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 3: mentioned the Little Beliefs. NBC has a film showing the
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 3: Oswald outside at or around the time of the shots.
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 3: Uh seen it. It's old news, Peaches. She's referring to
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 3: the Darnell film and prayer Man. So that's all it is.
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 3: It's nothing, nothing new or anything like that. It's news
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 3: to her because you know, Bart doesn't get the play
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 3: that he should, nor does NBC come off with the
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 3: footage that they should. But that's what she's referring to.
• 2:10:36
  Speaker 3: She's referring to the prayer Man image that's allegedly Oswald
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 3: caught on film out in front of the school depository.
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 3: That's all that is.
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and also mentioned that none of Shelley or Love
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 2: Lady or Frasier for that matter, said that Oswalt was
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 2: out there when he said he was out there for
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 2: for five ten minutes.
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 3: They steps just off in space.
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you would think that they would have mentioned that,
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 2: and and one other thing this. Uh, I have one
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 2: other thing here. I want to get to this. Did
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 2: I show the newspaper article of the man of honor
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 2: Bill Shelley? Did I do that?
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 3: Yet?
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 2: What did I show this?
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 2: So dog, so this this is at the wedding of
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 2: mister and missus Robert Lee. Robert Lee.
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 3: You know if I ron a cavalry, uh, Miss Calvary,
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 3: she worked at them.
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 2: She worked at the TSBD. And that's who Shelley said
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 2: that he ran into on the knoll that said, oh
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 2: my god, the president's been shot. Well, if you look
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 2: at it here and this is also from Perrman. Bill
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 2: Shelley served as best man at the wedding. So quite
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 2: a convenient I'm gonna go all the way back. Quite
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 2: a convenient alibi or someone to say that you ran
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 2: into I'm gonna go all the way back here, right
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 2: the girl We ran to a girl. I ran across
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 2: the street to the corner of the park and ran
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 2: to a girl carrying and she said the president has
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 2: been shot. This girl's crying.
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 3: Yes, I'm sorry, stearing tears.
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Girl's name is Gloria Cavalry, who is an employee
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 2: of the same building. So interesting that he's giving that
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 2: alibi day of of someone. I guess he later served
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 2: as the best man. So, I mean, there are so
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 2: many inconsistencies with Love Lady and Shelley's movements right after
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 2: the assassination. I think they were somewhat coerced into saying
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 2: certain things to make their stories line up, to discredit Victoria.
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 4: Adams, to kind of fit into the timeline, as we've
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 4: do jobs, keep their jobs, Yeah, to keep possible.
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 3: Like you said, Love Lady is pliable. You know, the
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 3: black guys are pliable.
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 2: You know. And at this point it's it's it's survival
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 2: of the fittest bro you know what I mean. You
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 2: have the whole federal apparatus coming down in you state apparatus.
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 2: What are you gonna like align yourself with, you know,
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 2: the person accused of shooting the president or the person
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 2: on Sunday who was killed in silence forever? There's no
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 2: need to do that.
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 3: Do you just go along with the official story?
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 2: You know? Yeah, so I think a lot of that
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 2: was happening with love Lady and Shelley. I'm not sure
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 2: about his intelligence ties. It is really interesting that's so
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 2: little is known about his early years, and I think
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 2: Bart has obviously done a great job at kind of
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 2: digging those junior ROTC things up. But and that hospital
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 2: report of William H. Shelley being admitted to Colorado City
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 2: Hospital in Texas fascinating. I just I don't know what
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 2: to make of it. Man, I think there's a lot
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 2: more going on here. I'm not sure if it ties
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 2: in directly to the assassination plot and tangentially.
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 3: Are you familiar, Joe with CIA finance officer James Wilcott
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 3: in his HSCA testimony? Vaguely he's a guy who claims
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 3: to have been a paymaster for the CIA and made
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 3: payments to Oswald New Orleans.
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 2: No, No, okay, oh in Japan? Right okay? Yes?
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah? And what he told the HSCA in the seventies,
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 3: James Wilcott. Now, I don't know how legit this guy
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 3: is either, but he said, and I quote, several different
• 2:15:39
  Speaker 3: individuals or firms in Dallas had been involved in one
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 3: way or another with acting as cutouts for armed shipments
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 3: to Cuban exiles for the invasion. This we concluded from
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 3: putting various pieces of information together. I remember hearing about
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 3: some CIA people who had somehow helped the right wing
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 3: minutemen in ten to get arms originally intended for the invasion.
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 3: Among the Dallas individuals and companies engaged in supplying arms
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 3: to Cuban exiles. And the Minute Men might have been
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 3: the ones occupying the building at four eleven Elm Street.
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 3: And of course I saw I think Fiddle brought it
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 3: up earlier that d H. Bird owned the school Book Depository.
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 3: D H. Bird former president or a founder or whatever
• 2:16:32
  Speaker 3: of the Civil Air Patrol, which of course David Ferry
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 3: was a part of, and Lee Oswall was a part
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 3: of and an oil man, extremely wealthy and extremely right wing. Yeah,
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 3: so that's not out of the Roman possibility. He did
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 3: say that under oath to the HSCAJA, I wouldn't lie
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 3: to you. Yeah. And here's another So just to clarify,
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 3: so we get this whole timeline street because there's lots
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 3: of conflicting information here, Joe lots so Victoria Adams and
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 3: Sanderstyle's story is this that less than a minute after
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 3: the assassination, they were on the fourth floor, and they
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 3: ran down the stairs to the first floor. Neither two
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 3: freight elevators were Shelley and Billy Lovelady. Adam said, I
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 3: believe the President's been shot, and neither Shelley nor love
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 3: Lady said anything in reply. They just sat there and
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 3: looked at him. Immediately after Adams and Styles went then
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 3: went out the back door. Officer Marion Baker came in
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 3: through the front door and met Roy Truly. He saw
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 3: two white men sitting by the stairs by the elevator
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 3: before going up to the stairs, Truly paused to tell
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 3: Shelley to guard the stairs and the elevators and make
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 3: sure no one uses them. In Barry Earnest book The
• 2:18:21
  Speaker 3: Girl on the Stairs, the reader will read that Vicki
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 3: Adams and Sanders Styles told Barry Ernest that they did
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 3: not see either Shelley or love Lady when they descended
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 3: from the fourth floor to the first. The Warrant Commission
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 3: did all they could to delay the arrival time on
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 3: the first floor by Adams and Styles in order to
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 3: remove the two girls from the stairs, when Oswald would
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 3: have likely been on them, and this likely included coaxing
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 3: Shelley and love Lady into making an earsat's trip across
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 3: the street to the railroad yards before their turn into
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 3: the Texas school Book Depository, which is now when they
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 3: said they saw Adams and Styles. But we have it
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 3: in the couch film when they're walking down the fucking
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 3: street right. So again we still don't know who is
• 2:19:19
  Speaker 3: telling the truth here. It's very frustrating. And get this, Joe.
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 3: About a minute or two later, NBC news reporter Robert McNeil,
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 3: famous of the McNeil Lair Hour when I was growing up,
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 3: came in through the front door, amazed to see three
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 3: call men standing there, Joe, he says, and I quote
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 3: Trey or Jack. Sorry. I went immediately into the clear
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 3: space on the ground floor and asked where there was
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 3: a phone there were was? I recall three men there
• 2:20:01
  Speaker 3: all I think in shirt sleeves. Well, I hope they
• 2:20:05
  Speaker 3: had shirts on. What on recollection strikes me as possibly
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 3: significant is that all three seemed to be exceedingly calm
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 3: and relaxed compared to the pandemonium which existed right outside
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 3: their front glass doors. I did not pay attention to
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 3: this at the time, but I asked the first man.
• 2:20:27
  Speaker 3: I saw a man who was telephoning from a pillar
• 2:20:31
  Speaker 3: in the middle of the room where I could call from,
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 3: and he directed me to another man near the door,
• 2:20:37
  Speaker 3: who pointed to an office. And when I got to
• 2:20:40
  Speaker 3: the phone, two of the lines were lit up. I
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 3: made my call and left. I was in too much
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 3: of a hurry to remember what the three men looked like,
• 2:20:49
  Speaker 3: but their manner was very relaxed. The man using the
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 3: payphone was Bill Shelley friend and AffA David made out
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 3: on the same aftercon noon, he says, and I quote,
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 3: I went back into the building from outside where he
• 2:21:05
  Speaker 3: viewed the shooting, and went inside and called my wife
• 2:21:09
  Speaker 3: and told her what happened. Love Lady must have been
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 3: one of the other calm men, since, as previously noted,
• 2:21:16
  Speaker 3: he made no response when Adams said that the president
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 3: had been shot. The third calm man was probably Wesley Fraser,
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 3: who stuck close to Shelley and Lovelady after going back
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 3: into the building and before going down to the basement.
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 3: After standing on the front steps to see the shooting
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 3: of the president, Fraser did something odd about which he
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 3: seemed to contradict himself about in an interview with the
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 3: six four Museum in twenty thirteen, he said that he
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 3: went back inside and went to the basement for ten
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 3: minutes EDI's lunch, But there was a fourth calm man,
• 2:21:51
  Speaker 3: perhaps unnoticed by McNeil, who was getting a coke on
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 3: the second floor. According to one of the FBI reports
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 3: of the first interrogation of Oswald in the Dallas Homicide
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 3: Office and I quote, Oswald stated that he took this
• 2:22:05
  Speaker 3: coke down to the first floor and stood around and
• 2:22:11
  Speaker 3: had lunch in the employee's lunch room. He thereafter went
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 3: outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 3: foreman Bill Shelley, and thereafter went home. He stated he
• 2:22:23
  Speaker 3: left work because, in his opinion, based on remarks by
• 2:22:26
  Speaker 3: Bill Shelley, that he did not believe that there was
• 2:22:29
  Speaker 3: going to be any more work that day due to
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 3: the confusion in the building. Right Pierce to be talking
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 3: about Pierce Almon, Yet no Pierce Olmen.
• 2:22:43
  Speaker 2: But thrill Folk just commented about him.
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 3: Yep, I'm getting there. Pierce Alman, a local newsman, later
• 2:22:51
  Speaker 3: said that after he approached the school book depository, a
• 2:22:54
  Speaker 3: man he recalled as Oswald near the front of the
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 3: building directed him to a phone inside. Excuse me, Yeah,
• 2:23:04
  Speaker 3: considering the noise of gun blasts and the uproar going
• 2:23:07
  Speaker 3: on outside, it's odd that Oswald continued to be unconcerned.
• 2:23:11
  Speaker 3: Like Fraser, who was quote eating lunch in the basement,
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 3: Oswald went to the first floor lunch room to eat
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 3: his lunch. The fact that he went and got his
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 3: gun afterwards and then walked to the Texas Theater, perhaps
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 3: to meet with someone, this suggests he has some kind
• 2:23:27
  Speaker 3: of agenda to fulfill. What it was is hard to
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 3: guess yet. Judging by the disgust in his voice when
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 3: he said at the police station, I'm just a patsy,
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 3: he probably did not know that he would be the
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 3: one accused of killing the president. So just a lot
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 3: of odd stuff, man. Yeah, And I don't know how
• 2:23:53
  Speaker 3: much closer we are to figuring it out, Joe than
• 2:23:55
  Speaker 3: we were at the beginning of the show. What that's
• 2:23:59
  Speaker 3: how we do you?
• 2:24:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 2:24:00
  Speaker 3: Around here?
• 2:24:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I wonder if if I mean, I guess the
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 2: day of statement would kind of go against this argument.
• 2:24:11
  Speaker 2: But I wonder if Shelley replaced Vicky Adams with the.
• 2:24:17
  Speaker 3: Cavalry, you know, Yeah, who knows? James is any minute
• 2:24:23
  Speaker 3: man connection with TSBD peaks, Well, I don't know about
• 2:24:30
  Speaker 3: I think Warren Castor was definitely a right winger. And
• 2:24:33
  Speaker 3: he's the guy that brought two rifles into the schools
• 2:24:35
  Speaker 3: pository the day before the assassination that Joe read about.
• 2:24:41
  Speaker 2: I think I think it was the Wednesday.
• 2:24:43
  Speaker 3: But either either way, you got some scufus of bringing
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 3: rifles into the building.
• 2:24:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thirty six and twenty two, I believe.
• 2:24:56
  Speaker 3: And Bill Shelley was a I mean, do you have
• 2:24:58
  Speaker 3: a picture of his gravestone in Joe and blow that
• 2:25:03
  Speaker 3: some bitch up big?
• 2:25:05
  Speaker 2: All right?
• 2:25:06
  Speaker 3: I want to show everybody something on his tombstone right
• 2:25:16
  Speaker 3: below his name if you can zoom in on that.
• 2:25:20
  Speaker 2: What's the same lovers of Carrie Blue Terriers.
• 2:25:29
  Speaker 3: For those of you who don't know, Bill Shelley big,
• 2:25:33
  Speaker 3: and I mean big into dog show.
• 2:25:39
  Speaker 2: Dogs, as was Love Lady at Her too, right, as
• 2:25:44
  Speaker 2: was Roy Truly, oh truly?
• 2:25:46
  Speaker 3: Okay, yes, and maybe a parrot or two. There's a
• 2:25:53
  Speaker 3: there's a very funny document out there that talks about
• 2:25:57
  Speaker 3: Roy truly and he always walked around with a parrot
• 2:25:59
  Speaker 3: on his.
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 2: But all right, yeah, I digress, Yeah, no, that is
• 2:26:08
  Speaker 2: a I mean, listen to put that on a on
• 2:26:10
  Speaker 2: a tombstone, it means it's significant.
• 2:26:13
  Speaker 3: Now, I've never heard of this dog, but I'm gonna
• 2:26:16
  Speaker 3: google it some bitch right now and take a look
• 2:26:18
  Speaker 3: and see.
• 2:26:19
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, what a carry blue terrier is?
• 2:26:23
  Speaker 3: Oh boy, wait you see this thing, Joe, hold tight,
• 2:26:33
  Speaker 3: It's worth the wait, trust me. Oh boy, Now, how
• 2:26:43
  Speaker 3: one man could love this kind of dog so much
• 2:26:46
  Speaker 3: that he's gonna put this thing on his tombstone? Folks,
• 2:26:51
  Speaker 3: here you go, yeah, I'm uploading it right now. Here
• 2:26:57
  Speaker 3: we go. Look at that thing. How can the fucking
• 2:27:02
  Speaker 3: dog he was see there are his eyes? Yeah, I
• 2:27:10
  Speaker 3: mean he's got to use like sixth senths to get around.
• 2:27:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely not a like a hunting like cut.
• 2:27:16
  Speaker 3: You cut his fucking hair like. To me, this is
• 2:27:18
  Speaker 3: animal cruelty.
• 2:27:20
  Speaker 2: Like I know.
• 2:27:21
  Speaker 3: Sometimes you know a dog in nature, you know, they
• 2:27:23
  Speaker 3: have unfortunate jeenes that prevent them from you know, being
• 2:27:29
  Speaker 3: able to see. But god, damn man, damn so he
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 3: breeding them. He's breeding him, he's showing him and he
• 2:27:39
  Speaker 3: loves them very much, like so much that he puts
• 2:27:42
  Speaker 3: it on his tombstone.
• 2:27:45
  Speaker 2: It's very interesting, weird, it's weird.
• 2:27:50
  Speaker 3: So was Hoight weird? Yeah he was weird? Yeah m
• 2:27:57
  Speaker 3: hm oh no.
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah I bet he smelled the dog shit constantly.
• 2:28:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, n at the very least dog pissed. Yeah yeah yeah,
• 2:28:12
  Speaker 3: oh boy.
• 2:28:15
  Speaker 2: But yeah, definitely. Uh, I think some Shenantigans going on
• 2:28:18
  Speaker 2: here with Shelley and and love Lady for sure. I'm
• 2:28:24
  Speaker 2: not sure about him being a secret agent or involved
• 2:28:28
  Speaker 2: in the plot. I more see him as maybe involved
• 2:28:33
  Speaker 2: in some shady shit and kind of went along with
• 2:28:38
  Speaker 2: the official story. Yeah, after all of a sudden done,
• 2:28:42
  Speaker 2: because like, what's the point of refusing, Even though both
• 2:28:48
  Speaker 2: Shelley said the shots came from the West and love Lady,
• 2:28:53
  Speaker 2: who by the way, was smuggling guns, said I'm sure
• 2:28:58
  Speaker 2: no shots came from the TSBT.
• 2:29:01
  Speaker 3: And in the armed forces yeah, and doing hudlam shit
• 2:29:07
  Speaker 3: all likely knew what a rifle sounds like, being sholl yeah,
• 2:29:12
  Speaker 3: a big car cracker.
• 2:29:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, we've we've covered all the people that
• 2:29:18
  Speaker 2: said that, But I don't know. It's uh, you know,
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 2: probably something we're never gonna fully know. Obviously, Bart has
• 2:29:28
  Speaker 2: done tremendous amount of work on this, and.
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 3: Check out his work check out William Weston's work, check
• 2:29:37
  Speaker 3: out Henry Hurt's work on the subject, and check out
• 2:29:40
  Speaker 3: John armstrong work. He's got a pdf on his website
• 2:29:44
  Speaker 3: John Armstrong called Escape from the Sixth Floor, where it
• 2:29:49
  Speaker 3: has a lot of diagrams and interesting pictures about uh,
• 2:29:53
  Speaker 3: Sanders styles and Victoria Adams's story and of course the Shelley,
• 2:29:57
  Speaker 3: Shelley and Love Lady story where he tries to figure
• 2:30:00
  Speaker 3: it out and he does about a good job as
• 2:30:03
  Speaker 3: we do, which.
• 2:30:04
  Speaker 2: Was not so.
• 2:30:09
  Speaker 3: But that you said, Joe, grab the damn dog, shave
• 2:30:12
  Speaker 3: your kiddie and let's get out of here, all right.
• 2:30:16
  Speaker 6: We got the commoner of the night, a mouser snauzer.
• 2:30:25
  Speaker 6: He wins the chat, yes he does.
• 2:30:29
  Speaker 3: Thank you, folks for hanging out with us this evening.
• 2:30:33
  Speaker 3: We hope you enjoyed the show. We'll be back next
• 2:30:37
  Speaker 3: week with another book review, another members show. If you
• 2:30:41
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• 2:30:43
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• 2:30:49
  Speaker 3: spooky membership. And uh it's hard for me month again
• 2:30:53
  Speaker 3: next week and uh those are not going to be
• 2:30:57
  Speaker 3: privy to see that. We'll see you next Friday. We'll
• 2:31:00
  Speaker 3: be here, yep, we might have a guest for you.
• 2:31:02
  Speaker 2: You never know, and thank you everyone for joining us.
• 2:31:07
  Speaker 2: We will see you on Wednesday or Friday.
• 2:31:12
  Speaker 3: Yes, we love you. Check out the links in the
• 2:31:15
  Speaker 3: description for the show, hit the like button, share this
• 2:31:19
  Speaker 3: shit everywhere. We'll see you next time. Peace. Peace,