Latest / The Fourcast / Epstein files: what they mean for Andrew and the Royal family

Transcript

Epstein files: what they mean for Andrew and the Royal family · The Fourcast

0:00
To what extent was the Queen complicit in hiding the truth
0:05
and trying to cover this up? Well, she was.
0:08
I mean, you know, I've got plenty of testimony from people
0:11
who went and complained to the Queen and were sent away.
0:13
I think it's clear that Andrew lied to everybody.
0:16
He was using his royal connections to get in with all
0:19
kinds of dictators all over the world, but also to be there with
0:23
Epstein, and that's very concerning.
0:29
Hello and welcome to the forecast.
0:30
If you thought the Epstein files would damage Donald Trump, it is
0:33
here in Britain where they have caused the most devastation.
0:37
The most damning material yet about the former Prince Andrew
0:40
include photographs that seem to show him on all fours over a
0:43
woman on the floor, as well as humiliating emails from his
0:46
ex-wife Sarah Ferguson to Epstein in which she appears to
0:50
suggest he marries her. It all raises new questions
0:53
about the conduct of certain Royals, the monarchy and the
0:56
Palace's handling of this over many years, and what this new
0:59
low means for the whole institution.
1:02
Andrew has said nothing new but consistently denies any
1:05
wrongdoing, despite his financial settlement with
1:08
Virginia Giuffre. I'm joined by biographer Andrew
1:11
Lowney, whose work has explored the private world of the
1:14
Windsors, and historian Kate Williams, who has charted the
1:18
monarchy's turbulent existence across generations.
1:21
Thank you both very much indeed, Andrew.
1:23
I mean, more and more comes out that takes this new pathetic
1:28
lows really. And and you had warned that it
1:31
was only going to get worse all along.
1:33
Yes, and I think it's going to get even worse.
1:35
I mean, there's still 3,000,000 pages that haven't been released
1:38
and I think there's still many more people who can come forward
1:41
and and talk. So I think it's it's he's not
1:44
out of the woods. Are you guessing that it could
1:47
get worse or, or or have you heard more than we've already?
1:50
Well, I've certainly got a lot of material from my own sources
1:53
which I'm going to be putting in my paperback of my book.
1:56
So $5,000,000 bribes the whole national Security question,
2:00
which people haven't really looked at.
2:02
The fact is, both the Russians and Chinese saw the
2:04
vulnerabilities of basically cosing up to greedy roles as the
2:08
way in. And there's, there's, I think
2:11
quite a lot still I'm I've found to come out quite separately
2:15
from whatever there is in the DOJ files.
2:18
He he, of course, has always denied any wrongdoing.
2:22
He hasn't said anything new. But Kate, how how much damage is
2:28
this doing to the monarchy? I mean, you know, if the king
2:32
thought he was stemming the the flow of the the blood flow, if
2:36
you like, by cutting Andrew off, it's not really worked, has it?
2:43
It is very damaging to the monarchy.
2:45
I mean, we had everything that happened last year at the end of
2:49
October, just about when Mrs. Shifrey's memoir was going to
2:52
come out, that Andrew, he, he lost the title Duke of York.
2:55
He stepped back from it. He lost the title of Prince.
2:57
He's now about to move into this different residence in
3:00
Sandringham that both Andrew, Andy and I think he's not going
3:03
to last very long in. But this doesn't seem to be
3:06
enough because the revelations keep on coming.
3:08
And this latest photograph of Andrew on all fours, it seems
3:12
like Andrew on all fours over this, I mean, very young woman.
3:16
It's really very distressing to look at.
3:18
We think of all these victims, all these survivors and what
3:22
they've been through. And the fact is that they've not
3:25
just been through this at the hands of Epstein, the hands of
3:28
wealthy men all over the world, it seems, but also a British
3:31
royal and also Prince Andrew and no longer core Prince, of
3:36
course. And this, you know, what does it
3:38
mean for the monarchy? It, it is damaging to the
3:40
monarchy. We, we know that the certainly
3:44
there was some. We, we know that Virginia, as
3:46
you've said, she wasn't allowed to say anything.
3:48
There was an NDA given to her throughout the year of the
3:50
Queen's Jubilee in 20/22. She said she wasn't permitted to
3:54
speak out during that. That was the terms of the NDA.
3:56
They know it's damaging. It is damaging.
3:58
And I think that no matter how much Charles and also William
4:04
distance themselves from Andrew, the fact is this was a senior
4:07
member of the royal family. And he was using, as Andrew Lani
4:10
has shown in this book, he was using his royal connections to
4:14
get in with all kinds of dictators all over the world,
4:17
but also to be there with Epstein.
4:19
And that's very concerning. I mean, I do want to come to the
4:22
whole question of sort of using royal privilege and palaces and,
4:26
and you know, what, what he had to offer.
4:29
But doesn't it also just make us reappraise the way the queen,
4:36
the king and others in the royal household dealt with this all
4:43
along? You know, as you say, there was
4:46
a deal with with Virginia Jewfrey, there was an NDA and
4:52
and it, it makes us wonder, you know, to what extent were they
4:57
just trying to protect themselves and the institution
5:00
and to what extent were they actually trying to do something
5:04
about the truth and the behaviour?
5:08
Well, I think it's clear that Andrew lied to everybody.
5:11
I mean, let's just think of these statements he put out
5:13
saying he was at AII think he said.
5:16
I'm at a loss to understand Mr. Epstein's lifestyle.
5:18
I mean lifestyle, but. But can you just blame Andrew is
5:22
my point? No, I.
5:23
If I could interrupt there, perhaps I didn't think you can.
5:25
I mean, the royal family have known about this for years and
5:27
had the opportunity to deal with it years ago.
5:29
So this is this is an accident that's been waiting to happen
5:32
and I think they need to be held responsible.
5:34
I think also the Met now need to look at the their case again.
5:39
It's very clear that women were trafficked to Andrew and they
5:42
need to reopen their investigation.
5:44
But I do think they're big questions for the palace.
5:46
They haven't handled this at all well.
5:48
OK. I think this is true.
5:51
I think that the palace were obviously, I mean, I feel that
5:55
Andrew did lie to them, but and and constantly thought he was
5:58
innocent. I mean, let's just think about
5:59
when we was the Duke of Duchess of Pence funeral last year, he
6:02
was cozying up to William. He was trying to talk to William
6:05
and William was trying to get away from him.
6:06
Andrew simply, I think we can say this didn't believe he's
6:10
guilty of anything. He thought he was He's just
6:12
simply thought he was just absolutely innocent And some
6:16
members of the royal family clearly bought that.
6:19
And yet it was a total, total lie.
6:22
And we have the whole case of paying Miss Chaffrey for her
6:26
for, you know, the, the, the, the settlement we believe is $12
6:29
million simply. And, and also the fact that
6:32
Andrew kept saying he was going to speak to authorities, didn't
6:35
he said over and over again, he's going to speak to
6:36
authorities. And then the American
6:38
authorities actually came out and said, no, no, he's just
6:40
giving us the run around. And this is the question I think
6:43
that we now have. Is Andrew going to speak to
6:45
authorities? I mean, that's I think my
6:47
question, Go, go. It kind of goes to that place
6:50
where nobody dares go, which is, you know, to what extent was the
6:55
queen complicit in hiding the truth and trying to cover this
7:01
up? Well, she was.
7:04
I mean, you know, I've got plenty of testimony from people
7:07
who went and complained to the Queen and were sent away.
7:09
The significance of that is really deep, isn't it?
7:12
Because so far this has been a story about 1 bad apple in the
7:18
royal family and how damaging it is to all the other honourable
7:22
members, most honourable of course, the Queen, the late
7:26
Queen. But that it it forces us to
7:30
think about this differently. I was vilified when I said that
7:33
back in August. No one believed me.
7:34
Charles was also in a position of power in the last few years,
7:37
the Queen's reign, when he could have handled this.
7:40
But I, I, I agree it, it, it does call if this isn't a moment
7:44
for the for the monarchy to make itself fit for purpose, to
7:47
actually modernize and adapt to a modern society, or it can
7:51
continue to bury its head in the sands and actually just lead to
7:54
its own decline. Are you sure it can?
7:56
It's not too late I. Think there are opportunities
7:59
there if we have more parliamentary scrutiny.
8:01
I think if William actually and the younger generation who I
8:03
think realized the reputational damage that's been done, I think
8:07
they need to look at a whole series of things.
8:09
I mean, we've got a number of royal palaces that are empty.
8:12
We've got art treasures and not seen.
8:14
There's a whole there needs to be a lot of sort of slightly
8:17
thinking outside the box here to win back the trust and respect
8:20
to the public because at the moment that contract has been
8:23
broken. Kate, do you think it's
8:25
possible? I think it's possible, but I
8:28
think, yes, there has to be transparency and there has to be
8:32
a question of whether or not Andrew is going to testify.
8:34
There has been a story just recently that a woman has said
8:38
that she was sent to Buckingham Palace.
8:41
Now that I think is particularly serious, the suggestion that
8:44
Andrew had women or well, a woman, and that maybe there were
8:47
others sent to him in Buckingham Palace because obviously, you
8:51
know, they would have been waved through by security.
8:54
It would have been aware they were there.
8:56
And first of all, I thought Mr. Frey wanted the Met Police to
8:58
investigate the fact that she's been trafficked to Andrew in
9:01
London. And just as Andrew was saying
9:04
there about the Met Police, you know, there was, first of all,
9:07
Mr. Frey wanted the Met Police to investigate the fact that
9:10
she's been trafficked to Andrew in London.
9:12
That investigation didn't happen.
9:14
The suggestion that Andrew had asked his royal protection
9:17
officer to go and find Mr. Frey's Social Security number
9:21
and, you know, so that you can try and dig up dirt on her.
9:24
These are really serious uses of royal privilege.
9:27
And if there's a suggestion that other royal residences were used
9:31
for Andrew to an obviously visited Andrew at various royal
9:35
residences, if there are women sent there as well.
9:37
I mean, that's very serious for me, you know, as a woman looking
9:40
at these, some of these pictures, I mean, the women, our
9:43
girls are so young. They're so young.
9:45
And I think of mischief racing that Andrew seen always wanted
9:50
women to be thin. He always kept them on very
9:52
hardcore diets. They are these women seem so
9:55
young, so vulnerable. I mean, very, very young.
9:58
And the fact was if they are being, they're being trafficked
10:01
by Epstein and if there are women being trafficked to royal
10:04
palaces, that is, I mean, that's that's a very, very distressing
10:09
allegation. Yes, I mean, Andrew Lani, I
10:11
mean, this is not the first time we've heard an allegation of
10:16
women being brought to Andrew, you know, in a in a royal
10:23
building. And we haven't had a official
10:26
denial or anything of this particular latest allegation.
10:30
But but as Kate points out, what what it raises is this whole
10:34
question of to what degree people working in the royal
10:38
household facilitated or turned a blind eye or didn't think this
10:45
was wrong and should be reported to the police.
10:48
Well, I think some people did try and report it.
10:49
I mean people, I mean PPO's who tried to report it found
10:52
themselves threatened with being put back on the beat in Brixton.
10:56
We had members of staff making complaints.
10:59
I mean, one of them told me the other day that Sarah Ferguson
11:01
was still bringing her laundry into Windsor to be done and she
11:05
complained and was told by the head of household should be
11:07
allowed. That's slightly lower order,
11:09
isn't? It it's lower order, but they've
11:11
been entertaining also business figures with whom they were
11:13
doing business until quite recently and using royal palaces
11:17
to, to basically promote their own business interests.
11:19
We've seen in the, the, the, the, the, the revelations that
11:23
various tours were being offered to various people as part of it.
11:28
So they've kind of just treated all these royal palaces as
11:30
their, as their, as their places to, to, to play as.
11:33
Transactional. Yeah.
11:36
Kate I mean, is that is that an entirely new thing or is that
11:41
the way it's always worked? You know that that being royal
11:47
means that you have these sorts of privileges and access to
11:51
things that you can dangle in front of people you want on your
11:55
side and, and that it might not always be for nefarious
11:58
purposes, but that's what you've got as a royal.
12:02
And and so it's not surprising that they were using it in this
12:07
way. Because.
12:08
Because. Because to some degree they all
12:11
use it for for what they want, whether it's charitable work or
12:14
or anything else. Yes, Krishna, as you say,
12:17
charitable work, this is what the royal has patrons.
12:20
That's the benefit. That's one of the great benefits
12:22
is that there can be receptions at the palace and meetings at
12:24
the palace. And we all knew that Andrew used
12:27
to sort of exploit the palace in terms of pitch at the palace and
12:30
his businesses. But I think the fact that women
12:34
not only having Epstein over for tea and meeting up, but also the
12:38
women might have been trafficked to Royal Lodge at that's where
12:41
the woman said she was sent to and other residences.
12:44
I think it's very serious and yes, royal always have always
12:47
acted, you know, the 18th century with sense of
12:49
entitlement. But but certainly I would say,
12:52
you know, the Royal George the Fourth, he was very entitled.
12:55
You know, monarch would say that the women were consenting.
12:59
And this is a very different matter.
13:01
You know, people say to me, oh, but you know, there's no crime
13:03
that was done to Miss Chafray because she was over 16.
13:06
And I said that that's not the point.
13:08
The point is that she was trafficked and that's not
13:10
consenting. That's why she wants a police
13:12
investigation into what happened between her and Andrew.
13:15
And of course, Andrew, he never met her.
13:17
The photo was photoshopped, all this sort of thing.
13:20
And it was all made. It was all lies.
13:23
And the fact is that Andrew has used his privilege in, as all
13:28
you know, all Royals do to forward their charity work, but
13:31
he's used his privilege not for charity work, but for nefarious
13:35
instances are. You at all surprised, Kate, that
13:40
somebody like Epstein wanted this sort of access?
13:44
I mean, I, I look at Epstein, I think, well, here's this
13:47
billionaire and he flies around the world and he mixes with the
13:50
most famous rich people in the world who are, you know, genuine
13:56
achievers and have done things and built business empires and
13:59
all. Why did he want to hang out with
14:04
Andrew Mountbatten Windsor or Prince Andrew as he was?
14:07
Well, there've been lots of, there've been lots of
14:09
allegations, haven't there, about where Epstein's money came
14:12
from. And there've been various
14:13
articles in the Sunday newspapers over the weekend
14:15
about where the money came from, what he was using footage for.
14:20
Probably can't say them too clearly here, but they are.
14:23
But I think, you know, where Epstein's money came from is a
14:26
very mysterious issue where he accelerated into this very rich
14:29
man. He clearly was seen as a fixer
14:31
by the innocent people who but by the people we might say were
14:34
innocent who went to Epstein island, went to his house.
14:37
They clearly thought he was a fixer, could introduce him to
14:39
various people. But they're clearly people who
14:43
are being who I think he's getting photos of.
14:46
He's getting information of they've been various girl, young
14:49
women said they were sent to the men for an instant extracting
14:53
information. I think Epstein was a man who
14:58
used everyone he came in contact with.
15:01
And that's not to say that any of these men are victims or
15:03
survivors at all. He used people and he used
15:06
people because there are ways that he could use them as
15:09
ballast for his influence. But also I think he was getting
15:12
information on them and I think he was using this information
15:15
and I think that according to Sunday newspapers, he was
15:19
selling this information as well.
15:21
Andrew, I mean, do you have any sense of what it was that the
15:25
then Prince Andrew really had to offer?
15:28
Yes. Access to the Queen.
15:30
The Queen was the ultimate trophy, and so he was hoping
15:33
that he would. It gave him credibility.
15:35
He was just a boy from Brooklyn. And to be able to have pictures
15:38
of him at Balmoral, pictures of him with Andrew, gave him a
15:42
kudos with other people. But Kate is right, he operated
15:46
as he traded information. He traded blackmail material.
15:50
It was all part of a huge ecosystem.
15:52
He traded information with intelligence services and Andrew
15:57
was a very useful way into some of these useful contacts.
16:01
Let's talk briefly about Sarah Ferguson as well, because I mean
16:04
the the emails of True are truly humiliating.
16:08
Yes, I mean, I'm pray that's what Sarah Ferguson is like.
16:11
And you know, you can't believe a thing she says.
16:13
I mean, she clearly kept I fat discovered she was still in
16:16
touch with her staying at Ripstine's properties years
16:19
after she had supposedly cut off contact, but you know, in the
16:24
way she hung on to Andrew because he was a sort of useful
16:28
gravy train. Same with Epstein.
16:29
I mean, she accuses Epstein of using her as a way of getting to
16:33
Andrew. Yes, that's not true.
16:35
I mean, you know, the, the, the point is, I mean that that he
16:39
was Epstein was paying a lot of Fergie's debts and that's why
16:42
she had to keep in with him. But again, the and we're
16:46
obviously we don't, we still don't know in truth whether
16:49
these are definitely true. We haven't had a denial.
16:53
The tone of it suggests she wanted some sort of relationship
16:56
with Epstein. I mean she, she, I mean, I
16:58
presume she was joking, but she sort of says something about,
17:01
well, you know, you could marry me.
17:03
Yes, I mean, Sir, folks. And I mean it's part of the her,
17:06
her style, but she she certainly had relationships with many of
17:09
her her financial backers. So that doesn't surprise me
17:12
what's at all. I mean, you say there'd be no
17:15
denials, but actually these disclosures back up what I had
17:18
in my research, much of which wasn't used in the book because
17:22
we wasn't believed at the time. I had a lot of material, for
17:25
example, on Peter Mandelson. So I mean, what to me is
17:28
gratifying is that this disclosure has backed up the the
17:32
the separate research I did with my sources.
17:34
So how how much damage has she done?
17:36
Or is she sort of separate because she's Sarah Ferguson?
17:40
She's not really war. I think she's, she's done less
17:42
damage because she wasn't abusing the, her position as a,
17:46
as a taxpayer funded civil servant, which is what he was
17:48
doing. But yeah, clearly it's
17:50
embarrassing. I mean, it's embarrassing.
17:52
The royal family embraced her again.
17:54
King Prince Philippa got the measure of her and kept her out.
17:57
I think the royal family kind of felt she was better inside the
17:59
tent than out of it. But you know, she's now all
18:03
sorts of rumours that she's trying to sell stories.
18:05
She's trying to get some sort of stipend because she has no other
18:08
way of earning a living at the moment.
18:10
Yeah. I mean, to what extent did they
18:12
need the money? Well, they live very
18:14
extravagantly. I mean they had a staff of about
18:17
33 chauffeurs. So they, they went through this
18:19
money very, very quickly. So I don't think they they are
18:25
poor now I. Think he's made money.
18:26
What I mean is, is it is it that they they were not given enough
18:30
by, you know, to to live a, a royal life?
18:34
They were given plenty and. And therefore needed to go and
18:36
raise more. No, they just, they were just
18:38
very greedy. Greedy and needy is the way that
18:40
people describe Sarah Ferguson and one of the reasons that she
18:43
wasn't given a huge sum at the divorce settlement because they
18:46
thought you'd go through it. The Queen bailed her out several
18:48
times to the tune of many millions of pounds until she got
18:51
fed up. So I don't think it's a shortage
18:54
of money that they just lived so extravagantly that they were
18:58
just going to burn through this money.
19:00
But you know, they've got plenty of money.
19:01
Nothing is now said about the £4,000,000 house in Belgravia
19:04
that she's just sold. There was money made when they
19:07
sold a Swiss chalet a few years ago.
19:10
He's on record as making 3.8 or he didn't get money in the end,
19:13
but could have taken 3.85 million on a Commission in for a
19:17
Greek water company. He's we're not dealing with
19:19
small sums and those sums of there he earned money for a
19:22
trust income. He's continued to do business in
19:25
the last few years in the Middle East under the radar.
19:28
So there's no problem with money there.
19:29
They just don't like spending their own money.
19:31
Kate, I mean, you've mentioned some past historical precedent.
19:35
I mean, to what extent is this always the way some Royals have
19:40
behaved and that it's just incompatible with a modern world
19:44
of modern media and, and social media and, you know, exposes.
19:51
Well, we do have a modern world and modern media, and we also
19:54
have a sense in which the monarchy was really being
19:58
refigured in terms of being a civil servant.
20:01
That was very much the message of Her Majesty.
20:03
Her first speech her first major speech when she was 21, was.
20:07
I, I will dedicate my life to serving you and her and her
20:11
letter on 20/22 at her, her jubilee was signed off your
20:15
servant. So this idea that the monarchy
20:18
are civil servants was is very much one that the monarchy are
20:21
moving forth with. But obviously what they've got
20:24
that totally undermines that is the fact that this senior member
20:27
of the royal family is doing everything opposite to serving
20:30
the populace. He's doing the absolute
20:32
opposite. He is using his, at the very
20:35
best, you might say he's using his contacts to make himself
20:39
huge amounts of money with very dubious businessmen a lot of the
20:43
time. But also exploiting it in, in
20:46
these very, in these sort of terrible examples, being
20:48
involved with Epstein, being, being involved in the
20:51
exploitation of these poor suffering young women who have
20:54
been through horrific amounts of, of we know of horror really.
20:59
And I think that's what we really have to think about is
21:01
that there's been more documents have been released.
21:04
As Andrew says, more documents are going to be released.
21:07
Is it going to lead to anything because these young women, these
21:10
survivors are being re victimized.
21:13
And all of them, a lot of them have said we don't want to come
21:15
out and speak because we've seen what happened to Virginia.
21:18
We don't want to say more because you are destroyed.
21:21
Is this going to lead anywhere or is this just re victimizing
21:25
the victims? More information because what we
21:28
are seeing is, is is at the moment, I'm not excusing Elaine
21:32
Maxwell, it's terrible what she did.
21:33
But at the moment Epstein is dead, died in prison and the
21:37
only person in prison for all of this is, is a woman is Elaine
21:40
Maxwell. So where what happens next?
21:43
Andrew, finally, I mean, can you actually see Andrew Mountbatten
21:48
Windsor testifying? I mean, we've seen how hopeless
21:51
he is in interview. He, he's not going to go and
21:54
testify to the Senate. I mean, he's spent the last 15
21:56
years avoiding saying anything. He never responds to anything.
22:00
I think the only way that he's going to speak is if PC Plod
22:04
comes and knocks on his front door.
22:06
And that's what needs to happen. The Met need to now investigate
22:09
him. And there's always been this
22:11
trope in the royal family and the Crown brought it out between
22:13
public duty and private pleasure.
22:15
And as Kate says, this is on the unfortunate private pleasure
22:19
bit. And do you think the Met is
22:20
genuinely free to investigate him?
22:22
I mean, you know, I think a lot of people kind of assume this is
22:27
the kind of thing that just can't happen.
22:28
Well, I mean, we can had King Juan Carlos of Spain had to flee
22:32
to Dubai because of corruption charges.
22:33
We've had the Crown Princess of Norway's son who's now upon
22:39
charges of rape. So think these things can
22:42
happen. But I think it is important that
22:44
we stress that there's the the rules are not above the law and
22:48
that there does need to be a proper investigation and he does
22:51
need to answer these charges. Kate How?
22:55
How, how do you see this possibly playing out?
22:58
I mean, it's inconceivable, isn't it, that Andrew does
23:03
actually testify, whether it's by video link or any other way
23:07
to U.S. Congress?
23:10
It is very, I mean very, very unlikely.
23:13
I mean, let's remember Krishnan. But he thought that that
23:16
interview with Emily Maitlis had gone marvelously in 2019.
23:20
He was very pleased to relate to thought.
23:21
He defended himself very well. I mean, he simply is in a dream
23:26
world about what constitutes responsibility, what constitutes
23:31
criminal responsibility. And so his advisors have done
23:34
everything to stop him from testifying.
23:36
He said he would, he didn't. And of course, the pressure is
23:39
going to be put on him. So I think unless he is
23:42
compelled, he won't do it. But the question of him being
23:45
compelled I think is 1 about public opinion because people
23:48
might increasingly say yes, as Angie was saying, are Royals
23:51
above the law because many of the rest of us would have been
23:55
hauled in by the police for similar matters such as this.
23:59
And that is the question. I think if public opinion starts
24:03
to swell, I think the government will, will consider about
24:06
whether or not the Metropolitan Police need to look again at
24:10
questions about what happened to Mr. Frey in usually Maxwell's
24:14
house, the being asked to police detective what Andrew asked him
24:18
to do. Because the simple fact is that
24:23
Andrew, you know, he, he denies that anything has gone wrong.
24:26
He denies any wrongdoing whatsoever.
24:29
But the evidence is mounting. And it seems to be that there's
24:32
just going to be more evidence when more and more of these
24:35
documents come out. They're going to be much more
24:38
damning. And the fact is that Epstein is
24:41
dead. We can't question him.
24:43
But what I do wonder is that perhaps more and more survivors
24:46
might come through. I think they've been I, I, my
24:49
suspicion is they've been silenced by Ndas.
24:51
But whether or not more and more survivors might come through
24:54
might speak out. And that when we have more
24:58
survivors speaking out, I think that could be very, very
25:02
damning. And the swell of public opinion
25:04
will make it seem as if Andrew people will actually he'll
25:07
actually be forced to answer questions.
25:10
Right. But but.
25:11
But do you? Do you, do you think it is?
25:13
It is possible that forcing Andrew to answer police
25:16
questions about his behaviour it would be the thing that saves
25:21
the monarchy and enables it to get through this.
25:24
Or would it not just seal its fate and and finish it for good?
25:30
I think Krishnan, I think you've hit the nail on the head there.
25:32
That is the question that the monarchy is going to be and the
25:34
advisers are going to be asking themselves in in future years,
25:38
they get in the years to come. But Charles's advisers,
25:41
William's advisers are going to be saying what is the best thing
25:45
to to sort of cover it up and hope it brushes under the carpet
25:48
or is sunlight the best disinfectant?
25:50
Is it we're supposed to put it all out there, put all the
25:53
information out there. And really I think what we might
25:56
see under William is that some more of a cutting off with
26:00
Andrew. But of course, the question is,
26:03
you know, I think many of us suspect that Andrew won't stay
26:05
long in Norfolk. He might go to another country.
26:08
So there's going to be more complicated questions if he's
26:11
not in Britain anymore and questioning is want to is want
26:16
to be put to him. But I think, you know, the, as
26:18
Andrew was saying, the monarchy so far, I've been hoping that
26:22
they can kind of kick the can down the road and it'll go away.
26:25
But you know, as I think in terms of the public, in terms of
26:28
the newspapers, if the pressure is kept up, then eventually it
26:32
really will seem to the monarchy as if Andrew must be made to
26:36
answer these questions. Kate Williams, Andrew Larney,
26:39
thank you both very much indeed for joining us.
26:41
And that's the forecast for today.
26:43
Bye bye.