Latest / Ask the Lawyer / 08/28/2025 Ask the Lawyer with Tom Peyton

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08/28/2025 Ask the Lawyer with Tom Peyton · Ask the Lawyer

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Speaker 2: The views and opinions expressed on this program do not
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Speaker 2: necessarily reflect the views and opinions of five eight w
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Speaker 2: c HS it's employees or w v RC media of Courts.
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Speaker 3: Oh Created Equal, We're mass come here in a Kate.
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Speaker 4: Can Robson.
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Speaker 5: You don't have to fight the law this morning. You
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Speaker 5: can put the power of Paton on your side. Tom
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Speaker 5: Payton in studio with us this morning. Payton Law Firm
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Speaker 5: in Nitro, West Virginia. Payton Lawfirm dot com, p E
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Speaker 5: Y t O n P Law Firm dot com. Good morning.
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Speaker 5: I'm Dell Cooper and this is ask the Lawyer with
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Speaker 5: Tom Pathon from the Payton Law Firm. You can call
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Speaker 5: us this morning at three zero four three four five
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Speaker 5: fifty fifty eight three zero four three four five fifty
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Speaker 5: eight fifty eight.
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Speaker 4: Tom, good morning, How you doing this morning?
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Speaker 6: I'm doing great this morning well, it's great.
1:13
Speaker 3: Faday was good. Got a little little chill in the air,
1:17
Speaker 3: just in time for football season to arrive. I guess
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Speaker 3: you guys have some high school games on tonight, I
1:22
Speaker 3: think so you can watch one game on the Metro
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Speaker 3: News app.
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Speaker 4: I think that's correct.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, So network wise, there'll be the the Parkersburg Morgantown
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Speaker 5: game will be on the Metro News app. Here locally,
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Speaker 5: we have a double header tonight and another game tomorrow night.
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Speaker 5: So tonight we're going to have one chs. We're going
1:36
Speaker 5: to have George Washington in the Spring Valley and we
1:39
Speaker 5: will have the it should be and then we'll have
1:40
Speaker 5: Hoover in Independence over on our sister station ninety six
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Speaker 5: to one KWS. So that's a big night tonight, man
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Speaker 5: doing all kinds of high school football.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, looking forward to it.
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Speaker 3: And yeah we're going Dad and I are going up
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Speaker 3: for the game in Morgantown Saturday. Just hopefully it will
1:55
Speaker 3: be a blowout, and hopefully it will be one we
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Speaker 3: can leave early. Perhaps it is, but it'd be good
2:00
Speaker 3: to see rich Rodriguez back on the field for first
2:03
Speaker 3: time in what seventeen years.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's such a crazy time to be a Mountaineer
2:09
Speaker 5: fan because if you would objectively describe the situation, the
2:13
Speaker 5: West Virginia's football program is in hasn't been ranked in
2:16
Speaker 5: how many every year, twelve years or whatever.
2:18
Speaker 4: It is.
2:20
Speaker 5: A new coach coming in, that's an old coach that
2:23
Speaker 5: was at a smaller school last year. Like, if you
2:25
Speaker 5: described that in an abstract to someone, they would probably
2:27
Speaker 5: tell you, man, I'm not so sure you're gonna have
2:29
Speaker 5: that great of a year. But the particular situation that
2:31
Speaker 5: follows West Virginia and rich Rod, there's a little bounce
2:35
Speaker 5: to people steps.
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Speaker 3: It feels on Yeah, And you know, the X factor
2:40
Speaker 3: factor to me is that you have the transfer portal
2:43
Speaker 3: now that he didn't have when he was here before.
2:45
Speaker 3: And I don't know whether that, I mean, starting off
2:48
Speaker 3: from scratch probably helps a bit. We'll see in the
2:52
Speaker 3: long run whether it helps rich Rod or not because
2:54
Speaker 3: the days of kind of building up players in your
2:57
Speaker 3: program or it happens, but it's rare now because they
3:01
Speaker 3: moved so often. But yeah, I'm looking forward to going
3:04
Speaker 3: up there and getting and it's gonna be great weather,
3:07
Speaker 3: mid mid to low seventies, so perfect football day. Hopefully
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Speaker 3: the Mountaineers play well, and then so I'm driving back
3:14
Speaker 3: and watch the LSU game because this is my son's
3:18
Speaker 3: last semester at LSU and they played Clemson at eight
3:20
Speaker 3: o'clock that night at Clemson, so they're underdogs, but we'll see.
3:24
Speaker 5: This should be a pretty good game. LS you's supposed
3:26
Speaker 5: to play a little defense this year.
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Speaker 3: Ryan Kelly coaches at LSU and this is his I
3:31
Speaker 3: think fourth or fifth season, maybe fourth And do you
3:35
Speaker 3: remember he coached at Cincinnati and then Notre Dame. I
3:37
Speaker 3: really didn't like Brian Kelly. Have to root for him
3:41
Speaker 3: just a little bit now since he's at LSU, but
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Speaker 3: I'd say he's on a short least. He has lost
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Speaker 3: every opening game since he's been there.
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Speaker 5: The most funny thing about him I found, anyway, is
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Speaker 5: when he went from Notre Dame to LSU and he
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Speaker 5: did his first press conference at LSU. Suddenly, yes Southern accent. Yeah,
3:55
Speaker 5: It's like, where did that come from?
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Speaker 4: Man? You've been living forever the Indiana?
3:59
Speaker 2: Man?
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Speaker 4: Are you very well? Quick?
4:01
Speaker 5: Last question question about football, because I'm just curious what
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Speaker 5: people think they've weekly. I bounced this aroun a little
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Speaker 5: bit yesterday under Neil Brown Westernet Mountainearst football team the
4:08
Speaker 5: most points they scored under Neil Brown at any point
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Speaker 5: with thirty eight thirty eight. So thirty eight over or
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Speaker 5: under for Saturday for the Mountaineers. Well, I've got to
4:17
Speaker 5: pick over. Okay, we better hope, so right, that's what
4:19
Speaker 5: we're looking.
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Speaker 3: I got to pick Over for a couple of reasons. One,
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Speaker 3: I think they're going to be really pumped for this game.
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Speaker 3: Rich's first game back. You got a lot of new players.
4:31
Speaker 3: The other thing, you know, we got a you know,
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Speaker 3: multiple quarterbacks that could play three, maybe four, and those
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Speaker 3: guys are going to be looking to prove themselves. So
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Speaker 3: I think that, you know, even when if we get yeah,
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Speaker 3: it's say we get twenty eight points in the first half,
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Speaker 3: I just see it's getting at least a couple more
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Speaker 3: touchdowns in the second.
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Speaker 4: There's no real soft edges to Rich either.
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Speaker 5: He may not win every game for you, but if
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Speaker 5: he has the opportunity to hang seventy, he's won to
4:58
Speaker 5: hang seventy.
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Speaker 3: You know, I mean, I don't think there's much probably
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Speaker 3: so and and and I don't know thing about Robert Morris.
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Speaker 3: I mean, I think they're what we used to call
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Speaker 3: one double a still and I did. I was listening
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Speaker 3: to the show today. I guess they've had how many
5:12
Speaker 3: players have they had drafted in the NFL?
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Speaker 4: Yeah, yah, yah, Zerra was one. Yeah, it was one.
5:15
Speaker 4: That's right. I got it right and I got it
5:16
Speaker 4: wrong that but yeah, one, and that's something else. But
5:19
Speaker 4: you never know. You gotta you gotta play the games.
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Speaker 3: You gotta play the games. You get a turn over
5:22
Speaker 3: here there, and uh, special teams play for Robert Morris.
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Speaker 6: You just you never know.
5:26
Speaker 3: We've had a few close ones. I don't think WVU
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Speaker 3: has ever lost a home opener against a non power five.
5:35
Speaker 5: And this isn't even a this isn't even like an
5:37
Speaker 5: Appy State situation where you have like sort of a
5:39
Speaker 5: venerable program that was in one double at the time.
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Speaker 3: You know, yeah, ought to be an overwhelming victory, and
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Speaker 3: it probably will be. I just want to go opening
5:47
Speaker 3: game and see rich Rod come by and see see
5:50
Speaker 3: the style of play, just kind of watch the players,
5:52
Speaker 3: see what kind of attitude they have. It was a
5:54
Speaker 3: little totally faster than ever, yeah, pace, play, faster than ever, aggressive,
5:58
Speaker 3: hopefully some excite. I think that's what we've been missing
6:01
Speaker 3: the last few years with with Neil Brown, so and
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Speaker 3: I have made the bold prediction of nine and three years.
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Speaker 5: That's a good prediction, man, every I think every single
6:10
Speaker 5: Mountaineer fan in within the sound of our voice would
6:12
Speaker 5: take that and lock it in right now if they could.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's probably more with my heart than my hand.
6:16
Speaker 3: But you never know, that's the way it might look
6:18
Speaker 3: like a genius, right. That's it's it's college sports still,
6:21
Speaker 3: so we'll have fun with it.
6:23
Speaker 4: But so what else will you talk about this? There's
6:25
Speaker 4: a lot of stuff, uh.
6:26
Speaker 6: You know, in the legal community.
6:29
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, we have some kind of really upsetting news this
6:32
Speaker 3: this week, Supreme Court Justice Tim Armstead passed away, and uh,
6:39
Speaker 3: you know he was on the He was obviously a lawyer, right,
6:42
Speaker 3: I don't know they did trial court work or anything.
6:44
Speaker 3: I never had any real dealings with him as in
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Speaker 3: my role as a lawyer representing clients, but uh, he
6:53
Speaker 3: certainly was a public servant. You know, he's in the legislature.
6:56
Speaker 3: I don't know how many years. I think he started
6:58
Speaker 3: back in the I's like two thousand or maybe even
7:01
Speaker 3: before that, in the legislature, and he's just always viewed
7:05
Speaker 3: him as didn't really see how to iye on his
7:07
Speaker 3: political views and of course in his opinions on the
7:11
Speaker 3: Supreme Court that they were well thought out and don't
7:15
Speaker 3: agree with. I thought he was a little result oriented
7:18
Speaker 3: sometimes on some cases. Of course, you wouldn't agree with
7:22
Speaker 3: everything any judge does, or you'd be the judge. But
7:26
Speaker 3: one of those kind of old school Republicans that I
7:29
Speaker 3: wish we had more of around to day. And he
7:31
Speaker 3: would not participate, I'm sure, and did not in name
7:35
Speaker 3: calling on social media or belittling other people based on
7:40
Speaker 3: appearances or labels. He was just kind of an old
7:44
Speaker 3: school conservative the way I saw am. I I actually
7:48
Speaker 3: last time I talked to Justice Arms, so we kind
7:50
Speaker 3: of sat next to each other, he and I, who's
7:53
Speaker 3: now manaster judge reader at the State Bar annual meeting
7:58
Speaker 3: in April that was twenty twenty four.
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Speaker 6: He was fine. He was jovial, you know, told jokes,
8:04
Speaker 6: had good conversation.
8:05
Speaker 7: And then.
8:07
Speaker 3: This past winner I noticed during an oral argument he
8:10
Speaker 3: had lost his hair. But I don't think he kept
8:14
Speaker 3: that pretty discreet. I don't remember an announcement that he
8:16
Speaker 3: was ill. I don't remember any large periods where he
8:22
Speaker 3: was absent from the bench. He was he was hearing
8:25
Speaker 3: cases and obviously undergoing some some treatment there, and then
8:30
Speaker 3: I hadn't heard anything recently until we just saw the
8:33
Speaker 3: news the other day. So it's just a tragic loss.
8:38
Speaker 6: I hate it.
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Speaker 3: Uh. The process now, of course, will be you know,
8:41
Speaker 3: candidates will throw their names in the hat and there's
8:44
Speaker 3: a commission that will whittle them down to I think
8:47
Speaker 3: three or it's three to five, and then the governor
8:50
Speaker 3: will will appoint somebody.
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Speaker 6: I don't, I don't.
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Speaker 3: I'm not sure when Justice Armstead's term was to end,
8:55
Speaker 3: but they'll serve out the remainder of the term and
8:58
Speaker 3: then uh, there'll be a non assuming it stays non partisan,
9:03
Speaker 3: non partisan election for a twelve year term on the
9:08
Speaker 3: Western Supreme Court. I mean, we do twelve year terms
9:10
Speaker 3: to kind of help make it a political so they're
9:13
Speaker 3: not running for office every four years like or two
9:16
Speaker 3: years sometimes like you do on the legislatures.
9:18
Speaker 6: So you know, uh, I know, he had he had a.
9:23
Speaker 3: Family, and he was a family man, and so our
9:25
Speaker 3: our our thoughts and condolences at the Peyton Law Firm
9:28
Speaker 3: certainly go out go out to them. And I thought
9:32
Speaker 3: Justice arms said was a good one. So, uh, that's
9:35
Speaker 3: too bad. It's a loss for the for the legal
9:37
Speaker 3: community for sure. Beyond that be on the national level.
9:44
Speaker 3: But one good thing about whether you like the Trump
9:48
Speaker 3: administration or you don't, one thing that I guess has
9:54
Speaker 3: made life more interesting is that every time I opened
9:56
Speaker 3: my newsfeed, there's newsfeed. You're you're waiting to see what's
9:59
Speaker 3: happened now, and you know, legally speaking, I guess in
10:03
Speaker 3: the last I think it was last week or the
10:07
Speaker 3: beginning of this week. You know, now he's put out
10:09
Speaker 3: an executive order. He's very good at hitting the you know,
10:15
Speaker 3: ignoring kind of principled aspects of the law that have
10:20
Speaker 3: been around for a long time, like due process, but
10:24
Speaker 3: kind of hitting at the heart like well, if you
10:28
Speaker 3: don't understand that or you don't accept it, then you
10:32
Speaker 3: can get to these kind of issues that strike at
10:34
Speaker 3: the heart of everyday Americans. Like this week or last
10:38
Speaker 3: week it was flag burning.
10:40
Speaker 6: Well, I wouldn't burn a flag.
10:45
Speaker 3: I mean, I can't imagine a scenario where I would
10:47
Speaker 3: burn the American flag in protest or as an expression
10:51
Speaker 3: of my views. And I think probably most most listeners
10:57
Speaker 3: have the same field feeling. But I also understand the
11:05
Speaker 3: right to do that. Under the Constitution, even though I
11:08
Speaker 3: wouldn't do it. So it's it's tolerate under most certain sections.
11:14
Speaker 3: Reading comments on social media, which is always dangerous to
11:16
Speaker 3: do because you have no idea whether unless you know
11:18
Speaker 3: who's posting it, you don't know whether it's a real human,
11:21
Speaker 3: a bot, or some foreign national. But so this, you know,
11:29
Speaker 3: they were they were promoting Trump's position and you shouldn't
11:32
Speaker 3: be able to burn the flag. And it's like, well
11:34
Speaker 3: if just imagine if somebody did that in Russia, what
11:38
Speaker 3: would happen to them? And they were saying that to
11:40
Speaker 3: advocate their position that that we should adopt that that's
11:44
Speaker 3: a better.
11:47
Speaker 6: Do you realize what you've just said?
11:48
Speaker 4: I mean, are we in the twilight for people out
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Speaker 4: of buildings? You know whatever, It's all good.
11:51
Speaker 3: But it is interesting. You know, it gave me an opportunity.
11:54
Speaker 3: I thought, well, you know, let me let's look back
11:57
Speaker 3: at that. It was only nineteen eighty nine when the
11:59
Speaker 3: US Supreme Court, in the case of Texas v. Johnson,
12:05
Speaker 3: ruled that laws that prevent the burning of a criminalized
12:13
Speaker 3: the burning of the American flag when it's an expression
12:17
Speaker 3: of protest is unconstitutional under the First Amendment. And actually
12:21
Speaker 3: I didn't know it was a five to four decision,
12:22
Speaker 3: so it wasn't you know, it wasn't unanimous. I forget
12:27
Speaker 3: what one of the justices dissented and said, well, it's
12:29
Speaker 3: just such a symbol that we should make an exception
12:31
Speaker 3: to the First Amendment and this criminal law should be upheld.
12:36
Speaker 3: But so Trumpet administration entered an executive order and.
12:40
Speaker 6: It's it's.
12:43
Speaker 3: It's a couple pages, and it's mostly political pandering to
12:49
Speaker 3: that feeling most of us have that no one should
12:53
Speaker 3: everyone should respect our flag and not burn our flag.
12:56
Speaker 3: And that's what his administration is really good at and
12:59
Speaker 3: getting the message out. And it's it's a it's not
13:04
Speaker 3: saying they're going to violate the Supreme Court's precedent and
13:09
Speaker 3: in forcing criminal laws, but it's it's close, and it's
13:13
Speaker 3: it's certainly.
13:15
Speaker 6: And then of course he has a.
13:16
Speaker 3: Paragraph in there about deportation if if somebody exercises a
13:21
Speaker 3: First Amendment right. But that the ruling from the Supreme
13:25
Speaker 3: Court was interesting when you go back and re read it,
13:28
Speaker 3: because it's really, you know, there there can be laws,
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Speaker 3: I mean, you're allowed. It did not criminalize the respectful
13:40
Speaker 3: burning of the flag. I guess you would say, I mean,
13:42
Speaker 3: I don't probably should, but I mean there are scenarios
13:45
Speaker 3: where a flag should be burned as a way too.
13:48
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I like to retire it. That's right, that's right,
13:51
Speaker 3: and so that's not illegal. On the problem with the
13:54
Speaker 3: with the law that was passed in the Texas law,
13:58
Speaker 3: and in that situation, a fall name Johnson had been
14:00
Speaker 3: a a I don't know if it's Republican National Convention
14:03
Speaker 3: or something. It was a protest to Ronald Reagan's policies
14:06
Speaker 3: in at the conclusion of the demonstration, he burned the
14:08
Speaker 3: American flag. He was clearly burning the American flag as
14:13
Speaker 3: an expression of protest, and that's really what the Supreme
14:20
Speaker 3: Court found was unconstitutional.
14:23
Speaker 6: So if.
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Speaker 3: I don't think there's been any laws that have been
14:28
Speaker 3: crafted very well around that decision, we'll see if the
14:34
Speaker 3: and a lot of its local enforcement, so the Trump
14:36
Speaker 3: administration won't really have any other than leveraging local officials,
14:41
Speaker 3: which they're also.
14:42
Speaker 6: Very good at, like you do this or you won't
14:44
Speaker 6: get funded. That's right, you know, we won't help you
14:48
Speaker 6: with this or that.
14:49
Speaker 2: And so.
14:51
Speaker 6: We'll see how it plays out.
14:52
Speaker 3: I mean, it got some news I'm just gonna sure
14:55
Speaker 3: it's really gonna get anywhere. It does say he authorizes
14:58
Speaker 3: the Attorney General to uh, you know, essentially aggressively appeal.
15:04
Speaker 3: It's almost like they want to charge somebody again under
15:09
Speaker 3: a similar factual scenario and then they want to run
15:11
Speaker 3: it up to the Supreme Court. Change. It was a
15:15
Speaker 3: five four decision, and as we've seen over the last
15:18
Speaker 3: few years, the Supreme Court can not follow previous precedent
15:25
Speaker 3: at times, even though that's the custom. So we'll see
15:30
Speaker 3: how that that plays out. But you know what the
15:33
Speaker 3: the Court and Johnson pointed out with if there's a
15:35
Speaker 3: law that if somebody is burning a flag and it
15:38
Speaker 3: incites violence and it is a breach of the peace,
15:42
Speaker 3: then the first of all, there are separate criminal sections
15:47
Speaker 3: of the code that address that type behavior, So it
15:49
Speaker 3: doesn't need to be a you can prosecute him over
15:54
Speaker 3: something else that doesn't have language in the statute that says,
15:58
Speaker 3: you know, it's legal to burn the flag in.
16:02
Speaker 5: Essence, So is there any and this isn't what the
16:05
Speaker 5: executive order was over, But personally, I was grown I
16:08
Speaker 5: was brought up under the same you know, you don't
16:10
Speaker 5: you respect the flag, you would never burn anything along
16:13
Speaker 5: those lines. But also there was a very strong vein
16:16
Speaker 5: of you don't modify the flag either, like like it
16:19
Speaker 5: was like it was like if somebody took a flag
16:21
Speaker 5: and did something with it to create like a shirt
16:22
Speaker 5: out of an actual flag, or you know, did something
16:25
Speaker 5: like that, that was considered extraordinarily disrespectful, something you shouldn't do.
16:28
Speaker 5: And although it's not taking a flag and doing I
16:30
Speaker 5: find it's really strange that there's so many of these
16:33
Speaker 5: alternate versions of the American flag around that people selling stores,
16:36
Speaker 5: they wear around and all these things. To me, I
16:39
Speaker 5: look at that, and I mean not that I think
16:41
Speaker 5: that they shouldn't be able to do it. I would
16:42
Speaker 5: never think that, but me personally, I find that a
16:44
Speaker 5: little distasteful. To be honest with you, Yes I do too,
16:46
Speaker 5: and I don't. I don't know if that's you only
16:49
Speaker 5: been on this earth with a memory for so many years.
16:51
Speaker 5: I don't know if that was when that became prevalent
16:56
Speaker 5: right now especially acceptable, But yeah, that's and then modifying the.
17:02
Speaker 6: I mean, burning is one thing. What about tearing up?
17:07
Speaker 3: What about putting a peace sign sticker over the middle
17:11
Speaker 3: of the US flag and flying it, which was subject
17:14
Speaker 3: of one of the prior cases to the US Supreme Court,
17:17
Speaker 3: So well, it'll be really interesting to see how it
17:19
Speaker 3: plays out. But you know, that decision by the Uspreme
17:21
Speaker 3: Court was very careful to say that it's this context.
17:25
Speaker 3: I mean, there's a this in this situation. This person
17:30
Speaker 3: was expressing their protest views by an act, and that's
17:41
Speaker 3: the context in which we decide this case. So it's
17:44
Speaker 3: it's kind of hard to think of other scenarios where
17:47
Speaker 3: it could apply. But we'll see if we don't see
17:51
Speaker 3: in the next six months or so, because you know,
17:57
Speaker 3: protesters will now take this and push Sure, they're going
18:02
Speaker 3: to push it. And I think what we what we
18:05
Speaker 3: will see probably is more attempts by the executive branch
18:12
Speaker 3: to enforce criminal laws that don't expressly prohibit flag burning.
18:17
Speaker 3: I mean, if you burn, I mean it could it
18:20
Speaker 3: be arson right or public danger or disorderly conduct. In fact,
18:27
Speaker 3: the Executive Order says, we, you know, are going to
18:31
Speaker 3: try and prosecute crimes that involve flag burning under open
18:36
Speaker 3: burning restrictions, disorderly conduct, destruction of property laws, things like that,
18:41
Speaker 3: and so that that will really push the envelope and
18:46
Speaker 3: the limits of that Johnson case and see see where
18:48
Speaker 3: we get. And you know, that'll be interesting that if
18:50
Speaker 3: you charge somebody with uh, of course, with arson or
18:56
Speaker 3: you know, they burn a flag during your close season
19:01
Speaker 3: for public burning, can you then prosecute that person under
19:06
Speaker 3: an open burning criminal statue even though they were burning
19:13
Speaker 3: the flag and protest as a demonstration. And that's a
19:18
Speaker 3: balancing act there. Obviously, we kind of have a synonymous
19:22
Speaker 3: scenario going on with the vaccine issue right now, where
19:25
Speaker 3: you know, they argument of whether there's a religious exemption
19:28
Speaker 3: in West Virginia for mandatory vaccinations for kids to go
19:32
Speaker 3: to public school. I mean, there has to be some
19:36
Speaker 3: limit on your freedom of religion. And where does that
19:41
Speaker 3: line fall? I mean, if you I mean, if your
19:45
Speaker 3: religion is Satanism and it involves human sacrifice or something
19:48
Speaker 3: like that, obviously society is never going to tolerate that,
19:54
Speaker 3: and so where do you draw those lines? And so
19:57
Speaker 3: that'll be you know, from a legal standpoint and a
20:00
Speaker 3: all you're'll be interesting to see how this filters up
20:01
Speaker 3: and if it gets to the US Supreme Court, if
20:03
Speaker 3: they'll take it up, and if they'll then refine that
20:07
Speaker 3: decision in Johnson from nineteen eighty nine or just that
20:11
Speaker 3: you know, there's a descent they could adopt that just says,
20:15
Speaker 3: you know, we're going to make an exception to the
20:17
Speaker 3: First Amendment for the American flag. Now, I don't know
20:20
Speaker 3: how you because of what we talked about wearing a
20:24
Speaker 3: flag as clothing or putting symbols on the flag, and
20:29
Speaker 3: you know, I don't where does that fall. I think
20:32
Speaker 3: that's a real it's a real slippery slope to go down.
20:35
Speaker 3: But they, you know, the Supreme Court could essentially adopt
20:38
Speaker 3: that dissenting view from the nineteen eighty nine case and
20:41
Speaker 3: just say laws that criminalize the burning of the flag,
20:45
Speaker 3: whether it's done as an expression of protest or not,
20:49
Speaker 3: are valid. And there's not going to be very many
20:52
Speaker 3: exceptions like this. This might be the only one, but
20:55
Speaker 3: we're we're making an exception for this particular situation.
20:59
Speaker 6: So we'll we'll see how that plays out.
21:01
Speaker 3: I mean, it's a it's a to me, it's an
21:04
Speaker 3: obvious just political maneuver by the Trump administration that they're
21:07
Speaker 3: very very good at, just kind of like, you know,
21:11
Speaker 3: not you have a murder or a gang member or
21:14
Speaker 3: a deplorable person, and and you know, well, why should
21:18
Speaker 3: they get due process right. So we've talked about that before,
21:21
Speaker 3: and it's it's an easy grab for a politician because
21:24
Speaker 3: it's initially you think, well, yes, I.
21:26
Speaker 4: Mean, it's easy to vilify the person a child molester.
21:32
Speaker 6: Why do they get all these rights?
21:35
Speaker 3: I mean, as we've talked about with the what they
21:37
Speaker 3: call the exclusionary rule, mean, if if key evidence is
21:40
Speaker 3: gathered by the government and violation of the constitutional and
21:44
Speaker 3: for example search and seizure, then the government can't use
21:48
Speaker 3: that information at trial. And and sometimes not very often,
21:53
Speaker 3: sometimes that results in a person who's committed a heinous
21:57
Speaker 3: act having their case dismissed.
21:59
Speaker 6: But that that's what.
22:03
Speaker 3: We accept as a society to maintain a free society
22:07
Speaker 3: and under the orderly rule of all.
22:10
Speaker 6: That's the constitution.
22:11
Speaker 3: So you don't get to just bend it to what
22:15
Speaker 3: you agree with, which is what the Trump administration seems
22:18
Speaker 3: to be seems to like to do. And of course
22:21
Speaker 3: they hit at the heart of those type issues like
22:23
Speaker 3: I just went through that are just easy, easy pickings
22:26
Speaker 3: because they're everybody, if you ask them, will agree it.
22:32
Speaker 3: Probably you know, a child molester of the worst kind
22:36
Speaker 3: should be incarcerated for the maxim amount of time. And
22:41
Speaker 3: most people will probably say it really shouldn't matter how
22:44
Speaker 3: the evidence was gathered.
22:45
Speaker 6: If they're guilty, they need.
22:46
Speaker 4: To until somebody is accused that isn't guilty. And then
22:50
Speaker 4: if you don't give them to do process, how you
22:51
Speaker 4: want to find out that they're not guilty.
22:52
Speaker 6: So that's right.
22:53
Speaker 3: And the rule there is it's a really it's it's
22:59
Speaker 3: called the exclusion rule, and it's just it's to make
23:03
Speaker 3: sure that there's broad or it's a motivation for broad
23:06
Speaker 3: compliance with constitutional provisions. So the executive branch, mostly law enforcement,
23:13
Speaker 3: can't just blatantly violate the Constitution based on the gravity
23:18
Speaker 3: of the conduct involved in essence, and so but that
23:23
Speaker 3: was this week from the Trump administration.
23:24
Speaker 6: So we'll see. It may die down and just nothing
23:26
Speaker 6: come of it.
23:26
Speaker 3: It might be something that gets in the in the news.
23:29
Speaker 3: It's it's difficult because I think for the federal government
23:33
Speaker 3: to really push this to its limit and get it
23:35
Speaker 3: to the US Supreme Court, because you know, criminal cases
23:40
Speaker 3: involving federal laws generally have to have some relation to
23:43
Speaker 3: interstate commerce. So crime basic crimes like open burning laws
23:48
Speaker 3: sort of the conduct destruction of property, those are all
23:52
Speaker 3: local state. You'd have to get a local prosecutor to
23:56
Speaker 3: to prosecute one of those. We're a I'm not sure,
24:00
Speaker 3: but I question has a I'll just say to probably
24:03
Speaker 3: still have a prohibitional flag burning statue in the code.
24:09
Speaker 3: It's just unconstant because you prosecutors can't enforce it.
24:13
Speaker 4: So we'll see if they might find a way. Now,
24:15
Speaker 4: well they can.
24:17
Speaker 6: They can always charge somebody with it, and then it's on.
24:21
Speaker 6: You know.
24:21
Speaker 3: The defendant would follow motion dismiss saying this is this
24:25
Speaker 3: law is invalid because it's unconstitutional, and then uh, it
24:30
Speaker 3: runs up the ladder from there. If a judge dismisses it,
24:33
Speaker 3: or a judge says, no, I think it's it's valid,
24:36
Speaker 3: then that's how I mean, that's how the Johnson case
24:38
Speaker 3: got to the US Supreme Court. It would The problem
24:42
Speaker 3: is that it's kind of a hot button issue. We're
24:44
Speaker 3: talking about it today, But to get that scenario to
24:47
Speaker 3: the US Supreme Court would be years. I mean, there's
24:50
Speaker 3: nothing emergent about it, like you're seeing some of the
24:53
Speaker 3: things get to the Supreme Court rather quickly on these
24:56
Speaker 3: deportation issues and things like that. Uh, this would probably
25:00
Speaker 3: take a number of years. To get to the US
25:03
Speaker 3: Supreme Court, and yeah, everybody will forget about the publicity
25:08
Speaker 3: of this executive order by then, and you know, Trump
25:12
Speaker 3: administration may not be in place at that time, and
25:15
Speaker 3: I would most likely the next administration, no matter who
25:19
Speaker 3: it is, will cool off on this issue a bit.
25:23
Speaker 5: Do you think that there's a it seems like over
25:27
Speaker 5: the last few years. And I want to tie this
25:28
Speaker 5: back to the Peyton Law Firm, because what we talk
25:30
Speaker 5: about so much with the Payton Law Froom, with you
25:31
Speaker 5: being on the ground here in West Virginia, knowing so
25:34
Speaker 5: well these counties that we're in, that the things that
25:36
Speaker 5: we do in the state, you're closer to what's going
25:38
Speaker 5: on here. You're closer to the law here. You know
25:39
Speaker 5: the judges, you know the prosecutors in some case or
25:42
Speaker 5: whatever it might be. I mean, it's it's there's a
25:44
Speaker 5: relationship there, and there's a even on quote unquote opposing sides,
25:50
Speaker 5: there's a there's a general cordiality. You know, you get along,
25:54
Speaker 5: you follow the laws, whether their laws are kind of
25:56
Speaker 5: unspoken agreements, whatever it might be. There's a process is
25:58
Speaker 5: in place that we that we that we followed forever.
26:01
Speaker 5: I feel like that we have some freeing at that
26:04
Speaker 5: at the national.
26:04
Speaker 4: Levels between lawyers and.
26:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think most prosecutors do a good job, but
26:12
Speaker 3: there's you know, they are elected, at least in West Virginia,
26:16
Speaker 3: and and you know they their duty is not I
26:18
Speaker 3: mean when you defend a criminal defender, I mean, your
26:22
Speaker 3: loyalty is to your client pretty much period. I mean,
26:26
Speaker 3: if they tell you they're going to commit a crime,
26:27
Speaker 3: then you have to report it. But you know, they
26:31
Speaker 3: have a right to remain silent. You you cannot misrepresent
26:37
Speaker 3: facts to a court or to a jury. But on
26:43
Speaker 3: the prosecutors side, they have a lot of power, and
26:46
Speaker 3: so there are some ethical considerations they have that they're
26:50
Speaker 3: really not supposed to just zealously advocate for a conviction
26:55
Speaker 3: all the time. There should be some judgment for example,
26:57
Speaker 3: whether you know, let's say a somebody mouse off to
27:02
Speaker 3: an officer. You know, the sandwich story, the DC sandwich
27:05
Speaker 3: story already.
27:06
Speaker 6: Through the sand.
27:06
Speaker 5: Yeah, So yesterday, I guess two grand juries were impaneled
27:09
Speaker 5: and both of them were like, there's no there's no
27:11
Speaker 5: here here and and the judge I think came down
27:13
Speaker 5: on the on the that's attorney. I think it was
27:15
Speaker 5: the former Fox News, Lady pierro King kind of came
27:19
Speaker 5: down on her as like, this isn't a thing. Why
27:20
Speaker 5: are we pushing this type of thing?
27:22
Speaker 2: Right?
27:22
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I think if it was a local charge,
27:25
Speaker 3: I mean, that could be a salt you throw a
27:26
Speaker 3: sandwich at somebody's chest, But that's not a I'm not
27:30
Speaker 3: aware of any state, even if it's a law enforcement
27:33
Speaker 3: officers where that would be a felony. And that's where
27:35
Speaker 3: you have to go through the grand jury to get
27:38
Speaker 3: a charge. But yeah, obviously the grand jurys didn't see anything.
27:41
Speaker 3: And it's usually grand jury's are one sided, meaning it's
27:45
Speaker 3: the prosecutor and the witnesses they choose to present the matter.
27:48
Speaker 3: The defendant's not there. There's no cross examination. So if
27:55
Speaker 3: a prosecutor wants to get an indictment on a charge,
28:01
Speaker 3: it's jerally.
28:02
Speaker 6: Not that big of a hurdle.
28:06
Speaker 2: To do this.
28:08
Speaker 3: And they and they and when they present their case
28:09
Speaker 3: to the grand jury, they can't again, they can't misrepresent facts,
28:13
Speaker 3: and they but they also don't have to necessarily but
28:17
Speaker 3: all the facts out there, you know, they can put
28:19
Speaker 3: the facts that they think is enough for and the
28:22
Speaker 3: grand jury is just finding probable cause, which is a
28:24
Speaker 3: pretty low standard. It's not beyond a reasonable doubt or
28:27
Speaker 3: anything like that. So you know, they did away with
28:29
Speaker 3: that one. But but prosecutors, you know that they they
28:34
Speaker 3: have to use some judgment on what you know, a prosecutor.
28:37
Speaker 3: That's what we're seeing with Pam Bondy. And what you're
28:39
Speaker 3: talking about is like you're you're you're following these charges
28:43
Speaker 3: that don't have much evidentiary basis and taking positions that
28:48
Speaker 3: seem to be based on politics and not on seeking justice.
28:54
Speaker 3: And and so a prosecutor that sees a reasonable prosecutor
28:58
Speaker 3: in my opinion, that sees a flag desecration criminal law
29:02
Speaker 3: get charged maybe by a young officer or something like that,
29:04
Speaker 3: really should counsel that officer. And then the case I
29:07
Speaker 3: ought to just be dismissed. But we'll see. I mean,
29:11
Speaker 3: there will be some out there willing to prosecute these
29:15
Speaker 3: based on the request. Sure Trump administration, for sure, Let's.
29:18
Speaker 5: Go ahead and let's take a break. If you want
29:20
Speaker 5: to put the powerpen on your side. This morning, we've
29:21
Speaker 5: been talking about a lot of different things. But if
29:23
Speaker 5: you want to dial it back down locally, you have
29:24
Speaker 5: something you want to talk about an issue that you have.
29:26
Speaker 5: You're more than looking gives to call this morning in
29:28
Speaker 5: fivet we encourage it. Three zero four, three four five
29:30
Speaker 5: fifty eight fifty eight threes are four three four five
29:32
Speaker 5: fifty to fifty eight. You can text three zero four
29:33
Speaker 5: non three five five zero zero eight three zero four
29:36
Speaker 5: non three five five zero zero eight. Tom Payton is
29:38
Speaker 5: here with me this morning from the Pathon Law Firm
29:40
Speaker 5: in Nitro, West Virginia. You can find out more information online.
29:42
Speaker 5: It's Payton Lawfirm dot com. Payton Law Firm dot com,
29:44
Speaker 5: p E Y t O N. Payton Law Firm dot com.
29:47
Speaker 5: We'll take a break, be back after this. You're listening
29:48
Speaker 5: to ask the lawyer with Tom Payton from the Payton
29:51
Speaker 5: Law Firm on five eight w s HS the Voice
29:52
Speaker 5: of Charleston.
29:53
Speaker 7: Why do people trust Peyton Law Firm for personal injury
29:56
Speaker 7: claims in West Virginia? Simple, Harvey are from here, they
30:01
Speaker 7: live here, and they're proud of it. If you've been
30:04
Speaker 7: hurt and you want no nonsense representation that gets results,
30:08
Speaker 7: you want the Peytent Law Firm. Don't let insurance companies
30:11
Speaker 7: take advantage of you. Call three zero four seven five
30:15
Speaker 7: five fifty five fifty six today for a free consultation.
30:19
Speaker 7: Discover more at Paytentlawfirm dot com.
30:23
Speaker 2: Hey listen to this.
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31:04
Speaker 5: Of course, this is our regular reach win using. Now
31:06
Speaker 5: we'll get you in the spirit a little bit for
31:08
Speaker 5: this upcoming weekend. West Virginia kicking off against Robert Morris
31:11
Speaker 5: on Saturday with a return of Rich Rodriguez a little
31:14
Speaker 5: uh make you.
31:15
Speaker 4: Feel a little better.
31:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll hear a lot of country roads this uh,
31:20
Speaker 3: this Saturday, I'm sure, and hopefully we won't see any
31:22
Speaker 3: flag burning. That's my other disclaimer, because we said, you know,
31:26
Speaker 3: I'm not an advocate of flag burning. I can't imagine
31:28
Speaker 3: that I would ever burn a flag in protest. This
31:31
Speaker 3: is not the way I would I would choose UH
31:33
Speaker 3: to protest, but I do value the constitutional right we
31:37
Speaker 3: have in this country to do so in protest with
31:42
Speaker 3: what should be without fear of being targeted and UH
31:47
Speaker 3: illegally prosecuted.
31:49
Speaker 5: It seems like the lay understanding of the First Amendment
31:50
Speaker 5: has been sort of taking a bruising the last the
31:54
Speaker 5: last several years. I mean not that anybody has ever
31:55
Speaker 5: had a perfect understanding when you're not in the profession
31:58
Speaker 5: or whatever it might be. But in suddenly kids protesting,
32:02
Speaker 5: people giving speeches at college, like that's suddenly a free
32:07
Speaker 5: speech violation, which is not.
32:08
Speaker 4: It's not that you know, I mean, you got these defaitements.
32:11
Speaker 3: Everybody's suing everybody in the national level for defamation and slander,
32:15
Speaker 3: and those are I've generally been difficult cases, and when
32:19
Speaker 3: it involves public figures and the media because there's a
32:22
Speaker 3: lot of discretion there.
32:24
Speaker 4: So until there's a chink, and then the chink will grow.
32:27
Speaker 4: That's what we have to be concerned about all that.
32:28
Speaker 4: But Peyton mafferm there's.
32:29
Speaker 3: A lot of stuff going on, and we do other
32:31
Speaker 3: than talk about white politics and the law on the radio,
32:35
Speaker 3: we do a lot of claims for people that are
32:38
Speaker 3: injured and or denied insurance claims. And I know we've
32:41
Speaker 3: talked about it a bit, but we had that really
32:45
Speaker 3: bad hailstorm back in April of this year, and you know,
32:52
Speaker 3: almost if you have homeowners insurance or comprehensive insurance on
32:55
Speaker 3: your vehicle, you know, you you make your claim.
32:58
Speaker 2: And and.
33:01
Speaker 3: I think I didn't get a lot of calls shortly
33:03
Speaker 3: after that hailstorm, but the last month or so they're
33:07
Speaker 3: starting to filter in. We've actually are taking we've probably
33:12
Speaker 3: taken three or four cases in the last month on
33:14
Speaker 3: that same subject where folks maybe they got a little
33:18
Speaker 3: payment from their insurance company at the beginning based on
33:20
Speaker 3: some insurance company standardized prices, but then they have a
33:24
Speaker 3: rougher com or a siding or a gutter company, and
33:29
Speaker 3: oh gosh, it's actually going to cost five grand, ten
33:32
Speaker 3: grand more than that to get it fixed. Then I'm
33:34
Speaker 3: having clients that are really having trouble getting communication or
33:40
Speaker 3: supplemental payments from their own insurance carriers. And certainly give
33:44
Speaker 3: it a try yourself, and you need to be real
33:48
Speaker 3: straightforward with your own insurance.
33:50
Speaker 6: Career, like here's what it costs to get it fixed period.
33:53
Speaker 3: I've had two or three estimates for example, and this
33:56
Speaker 3: is the one I want to use for whatever reason,
34:00
Speaker 3: and Chris minus my deductible. On most policies, you're entailed
34:05
Speaker 3: to get what it actually costs to get your damage
34:08
Speaker 3: repaired or replaced. So I've had a couple where, you know, oddly,
34:12
Speaker 3: an insurance companies claiming there wasn't really hell damage on
34:14
Speaker 3: the roof, even though every neighbor around I mean, you know,
34:19
Speaker 3: as if a hall stopped there was a bubble over
34:21
Speaker 3: their house or something, and the insurance company's claiming, well,
34:24
Speaker 3: that's pre existing wear and tear, it's not. We have
34:27
Speaker 3: we have a couple of those, and then we have
34:29
Speaker 3: more frequently we have insurance companies that are just not
34:34
Speaker 3: responding or not willing to pay what it will actually
34:37
Speaker 3: cost to get the home repaired. And those are viable
34:42
Speaker 3: cases because the way the law works in West Virginia,
34:45
Speaker 3: when you have to you don't buy insurance to have
34:48
Speaker 3: to fight and call and scratch to get what you
34:52
Speaker 3: paid for from your own insurance company. So if they
34:55
Speaker 3: deny your claim and you have to go get a
34:57
Speaker 3: lawyer to uh help make them do what they should
35:01
Speaker 3: have done in the first place, and you prevail in
35:04
Speaker 3: that claim, then your insurance company has to pay an
35:08
Speaker 3: additional amount for lawyer's fees and an additional amount sometimes
35:11
Speaker 3: for the aggravation they put you through and having to
35:14
Speaker 3: go through that process. So that makes those type claims
35:17
Speaker 3: viable for us to take on contingency fee like you
35:19
Speaker 3: see on like we do all injury cases that way,
35:22
Speaker 3: when lawyers advertise that you know, you don't pay us
35:25
Speaker 3: unless we win, well, that's that's great, but that's that's
35:29
Speaker 3: nothing new. That's more different. That's what every law firm
35:32
Speaker 3: does that handles those type cases. But it's difficult when
35:35
Speaker 3: you're talking about property damage because of course we to
35:39
Speaker 3: satisfy our clients, we have to recover enough so that
35:42
Speaker 3: we get paid and they get enough to actually get
35:45
Speaker 3: their repairs done. And so when it's your own insurance
35:48
Speaker 3: company you're fighting with it, it makes it viable for
35:51
Speaker 3: us to handle them on a contingency fee. So you
35:53
Speaker 3: can come and you know, we if you meet the parameters,
35:57
Speaker 3: then we'll take the case, and then we only get
36:01
Speaker 3: paid if we recover money for the client. And and
36:04
Speaker 3: we've been real successful in those and getting sufficient funds
36:08
Speaker 3: to get us paid, get the client enough money to
36:11
Speaker 3: get their repairs done, and oftentimes get something extra for
36:15
Speaker 3: the client for their aggravation inconvenience. So if you have
36:18
Speaker 3: that situation out there, feel free to give us a
36:20
Speaker 3: call or send us an email at the office and
36:23
Speaker 3: we'll kind of screen your situation. And you know, sometimes
36:26
Speaker 3: folks got to take another step on their own and
36:28
Speaker 3: coach them up in that regard. You try this, or
36:31
Speaker 3: you need to get a different estimate or some clarification.
36:36
Speaker 3: But then we're we're taking we're taking those cases right
36:39
Speaker 3: now and and we get them filed pretty quickly. And
36:43
Speaker 3: you never know in litigation, sometimes they resolve rather quickly.
36:46
Speaker 3: Sometimes you're a.
36:47
Speaker 6: Year later waiting.
36:48
Speaker 3: But most of the damage was in Putnam County area,
36:53
Speaker 3: and then you know, seeing Albans Cross Lanes area of
36:56
Speaker 3: Knack County. That's what I'm seeing anyway. So if you
36:59
Speaker 3: have those situations, you don't have to just concede to
37:01
Speaker 3: move on and intentional or just disorganized. I mean, it's
37:08
Speaker 3: a hassle to keep calling an insurance company or emailing
37:11
Speaker 3: them and having them not respond at all, or then
37:13
Speaker 3: they respond in some way that's not even responsive to
37:15
Speaker 3: what you were asking about, and oftentimes that makes people
37:19
Speaker 3: just give up. Ye know, if it's if it's a
37:21
Speaker 3: few thousand dollars, well I'll just get.
37:23
Speaker 4: A cheaper suit.
37:24
Speaker 5: My suspicion is that they have the numbers that know
37:26
Speaker 5: that a certain percentage of people will give up on
37:28
Speaker 5: the claim if they get non response for long enough.
37:30
Speaker 4: Hence the reasons have you.
37:32
Speaker 3: On a joy You understand that this might not be
37:36
Speaker 3: just disorganization, It might be an organized policy unwritten because
37:41
Speaker 3: they know that a certain percentage of people will simply
37:45
Speaker 3: go away if you just ignore them for a while.
37:48
Speaker 5: In my opinion, it's sort of like needing the foul
37:50
Speaker 5: paper for a tax rebatea when you're when you're when
37:52
Speaker 5: your vehicle, right, we're trying to get it's a barrier
37:54
Speaker 5: that keeps people from doing it.
37:55
Speaker 3: We're trying to cancel a subscription service like cable or
37:58
Speaker 3: something like that.
37:59
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's terrible. I just live with it.
38:01
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, right, you just keep it. You don't have
38:03
Speaker 4: to live with it.
38:04
Speaker 3: You can call us or email us and we'll take
38:06
Speaker 3: them on and you just have to communicate with us,
38:08
Speaker 3: which we try and make as easy and comfortable as
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Speaker 3: possible for our clients.
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Speaker 5: That's the Paton Law Firm. You can find more information
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Speaker 5: every Thursday right here with Harvey or Tom from the
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Speaker 5: Paton Law Firm. And you can find information online Payton
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Speaker 5: Lawfirm dot com and Nitro West Virginia. Threes are A
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Speaker 5: four seven five five fifty five fifty six threes are
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Speaker 5: A four seven five to five fifty five fifty six
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Speaker 5: three zero four seven five five fifty five fifty six.
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Speaker 5: Have a great day everyone, Tom. We'll see you back
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Speaker 5: here next week.
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Speaker 4: Sounds good, look forward to it.
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Speaker 5: Have a great day. On five ADWHS. We are the
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Speaker 5: voice of Charleston.
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Speaker 2: W hs A W two four three d r FM
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Speaker 2: Charleston W two eight three Q Cross Lanes. Like WVRC
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Speaker 2: Media station, we are proud to live here too,