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Pulp Blotter Book Club 16 - Jonah Hex · 22 Panels - A Comic Book Podcast

• 0:02
  Tad Eggleston: Good morning, everybody! Welcome back to 22 Panels and the Pulp Blotter Book Club. I am joined by playwright and actor Mark Pratt, and actor Sean Harklrode.
• 0:14
  Tad Eggleston: How's it going, guys?
• 0:18
  Sean Harklerode: Awesome.
• 0:19
  Tad Eggleston: I…
• 0:20
  Mark Pracht: I feel pretty good.
• 0:22
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, that's good. That's good. And, this month, we're, we're, we're… Mark… Mark picked, so I'm gonna let you introduce Mark. What, what, what did we read?
• 0:32
  Mark Pracht: This is, we read, the Jimmy Palmiati and Justin Gray Jonah Hex, the first… what?
• 0:43
  Mark Pracht: 12 issues?
• 0:45
  Tad Eggleston: I think I made it through 15.
• 0:47
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I…
• 0:48
  Tad Eggleston: The origins were starting… the origin was the next three, and I'm like, oh, I gotta…
• 0:55
  Mark Pracht: Yeah. Do that.
• 0:56
  Sean Harklerode: Oh, I didn't get that far.
• 0:57
  Mark Pracht: I mean, and, you know, the series started off with Luke Ross on the artwork, but eventually it became sort of a.
• 1:06
  Tad Eggleston: Who's who?
• 1:07
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, it was a… it was a… yeah, it was a real…
• 1:10
  Tad Eggleston: Rotating cast?
• 1:12
  Mark Pracht: rotating cast of really great artists. We were just talking before we got on the air that I… one of my… one of my favorite pieces, I have a page of Darwin Cook original art that is page 1 of Jonah Heck's number 50. I…
• 1:26
  Mark Pracht: I won't even…
• 1:28
  Tad Eggleston: Which I'm still 35 pages away from, or 35 issues away from. Get there.
• 1:32
  Mark Pracht: I… I mean, look, this, this…
• 1:38
  Mark Pracht: I… is very high on my favorite can, ongoing series of the 2000s.
• 1:48
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I… But 20%.
• 1:51
  Mark Pracht: entry.
• 1:52
  Tad Eggleston: I enjoyed it more than I was expecting to.
• 1:55
  Mark Pracht: I… I think that this series is…
• 2:01
  Mark Pracht: magnificently dark, and sean and I were talking the other night, it… I hadn't really re-read it since they were originally coming out. I mean, I have the whole run of this book.
• 2:14
  Mark Pracht: And, I was kind of…
• 2:21
  Mark Pracht: taken aback at how much it reminded me of, like, those old EC Comics horror books. I mean, it's not… I wouldn't call it a horror book, but it's definitely got that.
• 2:34
  Tad Eggleston: It's got just a tinge of it.
• 2:37
  Mark Pracht: A tinge of it.
• 2:38
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, some of the EC Comics horror books were less horror books than, like… Gruesome thrillers.
• 2:46
  Mark Pracht: Sure. And that's… I would say that's what this is. This is… Yeah.
• 2:51
  Mark Pracht: And it's definitely gruesome.
• 2:53
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 2:53
  Mark Pracht: But, I… I…
• 2:57
  Mark Pracht: re-reading these issues, I actually had intended to just keep going, because I was loving it so much. It just brought me right back to the original read of these. I just think…
• 3:10
  Mark Pracht: Paul Miotti and Gray, they get Jonah Hex in a way.
• 3:16
  Mark Pracht: that I think a lot of people
• 3:20
  Mark Pracht: A lot of people who write Jonah Hex, I think, think that they need to put something more on it.
• 3:26
  Mark Pracht: And…
• 3:27
  Mark Pracht: I don't think you need to. I think that he functions really well. I mean, I think about… I think about that damn movie and the,
• 3:37
  Mark Pracht: the other times when they're like, oh, he should have some sort of supernatural power or something like that. And it's like, no, no, no.
• 3:46
  Sean Harklerode: Well, if you want to talk about horror, I mean, that goes back to the… I was gonna say, my introduction to the character, really, was the… the Joe Lansdale, Tim Truman, you know, series in the… in the 90s, which were great,
• 4:02
  Sean Harklerode: I thought. Well, the first two are great.
• 4:05
  Sean Harklerode: but…
• 4:10
  Mark Pracht: I mean, I just think… it really…
• 4:14
  Mark Pracht: I don't… I was trying to remember why I picked this book up initially when it first came out, and…
• 4:24
  Mark Pracht: I couldn't really remember, but there was something about it that really excited me, and it… the truth of the matter may be that it might have been that, Luke Ross straight up draws Jonah Hex as Clint Eastwood.
• 4:37
  Sean Harklerode: Absolutely. Yeah. Which sometimes, sometimes that bothers me, like, particularly sometimes…
• 4:44
  Sean Harklerode: When people are so dependent on photo reference.
• 4:48
  Mark Pracht: Like…
• 4:49
  Sean Harklerode: They're in the early beginnings of the Marvel Star Wars,
• 4:53
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 4:54
  Sean Harklerode: it kind of bothers me sometimes, because they're like, oh, I know that photo.
• 4:58
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 4:58
  Sean Harklerode: But this, it's not all the time.
• 5:02
  Sean Harklerode: But sometimes it's like, damn, that's… that's Clint Eastwood right there.
• 5:05
  Mark Pracht: That's Clint Eastwood, yeah. Well, and plus you have that great, you know, the great scar thing.
• 5:10
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 5:10
  Mark Pracht: It just… it offsets it just enough Because, really, the… the…
• 5:18
  Mark Pracht: I mean, and it is… okay, look, I'm a huge Clint Eastwood Western fan. My favorite Western of all time is Outlaw Josie Wales, and
• 5:29
  Mark Pracht: And,
• 5:35
  Mark Pracht: I think that it… there was just something that clicked with me. I was like, oh, yeah, that's… like, if… if somebody could have made…
• 5:43
  Mark Pracht: a Jonah Hex movie in, like, the mid…
• 5:47
  Mark Pracht: Early to mid-70s, or even later 70s.
• 5:51
  Mark Pracht: It… like, it's perfect.
• 5:54
  Mark Pracht: And I think… I think that…
• 5:56
  Mark Pracht: I think that Palmiati and Gray just sort of write it like a spaghetti western, really, and it… that's what… it just pops to me, like…
• 6:07
  Sean Harklerode: Gravity tails.
• 6:08
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:09
  Tad Eggleston: So, I really want you guys to talk a little bit more about, about,
• 6:15
  Tad Eggleston: what you like like about this, and again, I want to emphasize that I liked it way more than I expected to.
• 6:23
  Tad Eggleston: And I think I like it.
• 6:25
  Tad Eggleston: on a level with you guys, but particularly as you bring up the outlaw Josie Wales, you hit on exactly what I was afraid of with this book, and what I was afraid I was gonna not like about this book.
• 6:39
  Tad Eggleston: That I think they kind of threaded a needle on, so… so we're… we're gonna get, like…
• 6:48
  Mark Pracht: Were you talking about the fact that he wears a Confederate uniform?
• 6:51
  Tad Eggleston: Partially.
• 6:55
  Mark Pracht: I mean, I think that… I think that…
• 6:57
  Sean Harklerode: Can you establish that this happens before or after he's in the future?
• 7:01
  Sean Harklerode: Is this… Is this after he comes back?
• 7:04
  Mark Pracht: I think… I think…
• 7:06
  Sean Harklerode: 22nd century, or…
• 7:08
  Mark Pracht: I… I… I… I would hazard to guess that… yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you son of a bitch.
• 7:18
  Mark Pracht: Let's all just forget that happened.
• 7:21
  Mark Pracht: I think that's… that's where this takes place.
• 7:26
  Mark Pracht: I am… I do think it's really cool that this series does stick with the,
• 7:33
  Mark Pracht: Lansdale, Dezunga… Dark end of Josie.
• 7:42
  Mark Pracht: Or not Josie, Jonah. because…
• 7:49
  Mark Pracht: That… when you go back and you read that story from, like, the 70s, when they… or early 80s, or whenever it was, where they… they delved into that, that he ended up
• 7:59
  Mark Pracht: You know, stuffed. And it's like…
• 8:04
  Mark Pracht: creepy as shit. It's… I love it.
• 8:07
  Sean Harklerode: Right, which, you know, in Lansdale's…
• 8:10
  Mark Pracht: You know, he winds up…
• 8:12
  Sean Harklerode: with the, you know, reanimated corpse of Wild Bill.
• 8:17
  Sean Harklerode: Hitcock.
• 8:19
  Mark Pracht: No, I mean, I can't.
• 8:20
  Sean Harklerode: That's how the, the future run ends. He finds the body, and he's like, oh, I guess I make it back at some point.
• 8:27
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 8:28
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, you know, I think that… I mean, I think to what… to what… I mean, if… I… I don't… I don't…
• 8:36
  Mark Pracht: Look, V… I… I have always loved the idea of people who have…
• 8:45
  Mark Pracht: Demons and carry the weight of things on them.
• 8:50
  Mark Pracht: like… This is far less explicit than Josie Wales.
• 8:56
  Mark Pracht: And… let me be very clear, I am… I do not, I do not…
• 9:07
  Mark Pracht: Suggest anybody go read
• 9:11
  Mark Pracht: the original novel that Josie Wells is based on, I think Eastwood's film is a very different animal, with a very different…
• 9:20
  Mark Pracht: point of view.
• 9:21
  Mark Pracht: And the original author of that book.
• 9:24
  Mark Pracht: Was a lunatic, so we'll not talk about that.
• 9:27
  Tad Eggleston: Also, George Wallace's speechwriter.
• 9:30
  Mark Pracht: Sure.
• 9:31
  Mark Pracht: But… You know, like, the thing about that is that…
• 9:36
  Mark Pracht: You can look at that movie and explicitly.
• 9:40
  Sean Harklerode: My least favorite, George Wallace.
• 9:46
  Tad Eggleston: Is it…
• 9:47
  Mark Pracht: True.
• 9:48
  Tad Eggleston: Just the good George Wallace.
• 9:50
  Tad Eggleston: comedian George Wallace. Oh, I didn't know there was a comedian George Wallace.
• 9:54
  Sean Harklerode: Oh, he's great. I'll tell you.
• 9:55
  Tad Eggleston: Fantastic.
• 9:55
  Sean Harklerode: Alright.
• 9:56
  Mark Pracht: It's like, it's like my, you know, it's like my, my, my favorite Joe Walsh.
• 10:05
  Mark Pracht: Anyway, but, you know, because I think that… That movie explicitly positions josie as…
• 10:19
  Mark Pracht: like, I don't think the politics of the situation matter to him at all, it's the fact that
• 10:24
  Mark Pracht: They came in and they burned his farm.
• 10:27
  Mark Pracht: Well, that's… He murdered his family.
• 10:29
  Sean Harklerode: pain in, in, in… Ken Burns' Civil War, where Shelby Foote is relaying.
• 10:39
  Sean Harklerode: you know, a Union soldier asks this confederate at Andersonville or somewhere, he's like, why are you… why are… you don't own… you don't have any of this, why are you fighting? And the guy says, because you're here.
• 10:53
  Sean Harklerode: And…
• 10:55
  Mark Pracht: Well…
• 10:55
  Sean Harklerode: You can… you can apply that to Ukraine, you can apply that anywhere. Yeah, yeah.
• 11:00
  Mark Pracht: But, I mean, like, I also think that that film very explicitly shows, a… very cruel event.
• 11:10
  Mark Pracht: Done to a man who was… Trying to live peacefully.
• 11:15
  Mark Pracht: in a quiet life. And, like, I fucking…
• 11:19
  Mark Pracht: like, that… that… I'm sorry, like, we're talking about Josie Wales now instead of this book, but I mean, it's like…
• 11:25
  Tad Eggleston: I think it's a good launching point, because it was… I mean, I recently watched that for my family movie club, and, like, I…
• 11:37
  Tad Eggleston: I was appalled.
• 11:40
  Tad Eggleston: By so much of it.
• 11:42
  Tad Eggleston: that I couldn't… you know, I felt like.
• 11:46
  Sean Harklerode: Violence?
• 11:47
  Tad Eggleston: No, I, I felt, I felt like it, it, it was an absolute Confederate whitewash, and then, and then,
• 12:00
  Tad Eggleston: tried to make the plight of the South on par with the plight of the Native American, and it's like, no, two very, very different things.
• 12:14
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, I think that… I think that what it is…
• 12:17
  Mark Pracht: I think that… I think that… the… the…
• 12:24
  Tad Eggleston: And when I… I mean, I felt all of that, and then I found out, oh, it was written by George Wallace's speechwriter, who also wrote the screenplay. You know, I mean… No, he did not. No, he did not. No, he did not.
• 12:36
  Mark Pracht: He did not write the screenplay.
• 12:40
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, let… keep going.
• 12:42
  Mark Pracht: Because there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a… I… it's, it's,
• 12:48
  Mark Pracht: The screenplay was written by, da-da-da, Kaufman. Kaufman, if I'm remembering correctly.
• 12:56
  Sean Harklerode: Charlie Kaufman?
• 12:57
  Mark Pracht: No, not Charlie.
• 12:59
  Tad Eggleston: Philip Kaufman was involved in it. Yeah. Okay.
• 13:02
  Mark Pracht: So, like, there is a famous… there is a famous story where Eastwood met with that guy, and he was like, okay, that dude's an insane… insane, you know?
• 13:14
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 13:15
  Mark Pracht: Like, look, the fact of the matter is, is that the Civil War in this country was a…
• 13:24
  Mark Pracht: A conflict that pitted people against each other in ways that
• 13:30
  Mark Pracht: we had never seen before, and hope to God we'll never see again.
• 13:34
  Tad Eggleston: emergency again.
• 13:35
  Mark Pracht: But the… and the fact of the matter is, is that there were atrocities committed, that there were things on both sides, and I'm not… I'm not…
• 13:44
  Mark Pracht: I'm not…
• 13:45
  Mark Pracht: justifying anything to do with the Confederacy, but there was a lot of people who fought in that war for various reasons. And that movie positions Josie as one thing.
• 13:57
  Mark Pracht: He is, like, the Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away.
• 14:02
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 14:03
  Mark Pracht: Brad, that, that is…
• 14:04
  Tad Eggleston: I didn't.
• 14:05
  Mark Pracht: He is…
• 14:06
  Tad Eggleston: problem with the portrayal of Josie.
• 14:10
  Tad Eggleston: It was this…
• 14:11
  Sean Harklerode: You're the southerner.
• 14:12
  Sean Harklerode: Listening to… Northerners debate the Civil War, it's very fast.
• 14:18
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 14:18
  Mark Pracht: But, I mean, like, I'm just saying that, like, look, the red legs in that movie are designed to be bad people.
• 14:26
  Mark Pracht: Period. And that's… and they're bad people because they're bad people. They're not bad people because they're from the North or from the South. They're just bad people, right? And and the thing is, is that the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. They took away his family, so he goes on this…
• 14:44
  Mark Pracht: this journey, and what happens is the Lord giveth back to him another family, and another… another…
• 14:55
  Mark Pracht: Another group, another society to live within.
• 14:59
  Mark Pracht: And I…
• 15:01
  Mark Pracht: like, I… I don't… like, I think the scene where he meets with the Andean chief, and they talk… and they talk about the words of death and the words of life, and that… that is… that is…
• 15:14
  Mark Pracht: a beautiful scene, to me. I think that that movie is exceptionally well written.
• 15:20
  Mark Pracht: you can… you can make whatever judgment you want about things. I mean, like, that…
• 15:27
  Mark Pracht: I think that that young man that rides with him and that dies is a perfect example of someone who just does not understand what the situation is or why things are happening, and…
• 15:39
  Mark Pracht: And Josie doesn't care.
• 15:41
  Mark Pracht: Josie… Josie wants to die in a lot of ways. He just wants to take as many of the people who killed his family
• 15:48
  Mark Pracht: with him, you know? Right, right. And then, at the end, he learns to… I mean, the… I mean, that's… that's just it. I think… I think that…
• 15:59
  Mark Pracht: I mean, like, look, I first watched that movie because Orson Welles said.
• 16:06
  Mark Pracht: Quote, If this movie had been made by anyone but Clint Eastwood, it would be considered one of the greatest American films.
• 16:13
  Mark Pracht: And I think that there's the truth to that.
• 16:16
  Tad Eggleston: I absolutely think that, I mean, like, from a strictly technical standpoint, from a strictly acting standpoint, it's a brilliant movie. I think you could have told the story
• 16:29
  Tad Eggleston: with a slightly different backdrop. I mean, like, again, it's the setting that makes me deeply uncomfortable.
• 16:38
  Tad Eggleston: And maybe it's supposed to.
• 16:41
  Tad Eggleston: But I've seen so many people use… use that sort of thing as an example of…
• 16:49
  Tad Eggleston: the lost cause. You know, and the lost cause narrative is one that came about way after the Civil War. It started in the teens, when Black people were actually starting to get some rights, that we rewrote history.
• 17:05
  Tad Eggleston: To, to, to, to change it from, like, rich southern planners
• 17:11
  Tad Eggleston: you know, not wanting to give up slaves to, oh, it was all about states' rights and law school. We were fighting for the real America.
• 17:20
  Tad Eggleston: You know, as far as history books go, the South won that war in a lot of ways.
• 17:31
  Tad Eggleston: And it feels emblematic of that.
• 17:34
  Tad Eggleston: And that was what I was worried about with this comic, and I felt like Palmiati and Gray actually
• 17:41
  Tad Eggleston: Threaded a really delicate needle to make it not like that.
• 17:46
  Tad Eggleston: I…
• 17:48
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, I think… I think… I think Josie, I already… Jonah.
• 17:56
  Mark Pracht: And, I think Jonah exists in a world where
• 18:02
  Mark Pracht: Like, it carries the burden of something, right?
• 18:05
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 18:06
  Mark Pracht: And she carries the scars, literally, of something. And I think that… that part of… part of…
• 18:15
  Mark Pracht: Because I think it's a very different thing. I think… I think that…
• 18:19
  Mark Pracht: I think that there's something about him having been in the Confederate cavalry is…
• 18:27
  Mark Pracht: Feeds into the character on some level.
• 18:31
  Mark Pracht: in a way that I think…
• 18:33
  Mark Pracht: I think the story of Josie Wales, at least the way Eastwood told it.
• 18:40
  Mark Pracht: with the, with the, Kauffman script is, not about that. It's… it's…
• 18:49
  Mark Pracht: In that context, but that the character journey is not about that.
• 18:55
  Mark Pracht: I think that, in a lot of ways.
• 18:59
  Mark Pracht: Josie is continually paying a price for something.
• 19:05
  Mark Pracht: And this is… this is part of why I think I always… whenever they make some sort of, like, supernatural thing where Jonah can talk to the dead, or whatever, I'm like, it's… that's bullshit to me. It's better that he just sees things, and he goes, no, that's wrong.
• 19:23
  Mark Pracht: It's like… And then he… sets it.
• 19:28
  Tad Eggleston: But also, where I was going is, like, where… why I had to read it, and why I was most afraid of the origin stories. It's like, okay, now we get to figure out some… and, like, seeing the way that he was raised by Apache, seeing that he was…
• 19:46
  Tad Eggleston: going after the Union, now just U.S, again, army who had
• 19:52
  Tad Eggleston: slaughtered his people, it's like, oh, now I get it. It's not even that he's a Southerner, it's that he, like, one of the… one of the great historical
• 20:07
  Tad Eggleston: Difficulties in terms of making great heroes and villains and whatnot when it comes to union leaders, is so many of them…
• 20:14
  Tad Eggleston: That did good things in the Civil War, then did horrific things in the West.
• 20:20
  Tad Eggleston: So, so I liked the fact that This comic used…
• 20:27
  Tad Eggleston: That part of his character to…
• 20:35
  Tad Eggleston: play with… the complexities in a way that you don't always see in westerns.
• 20:45
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I feel like, you know, I liked Westerns a lot when I was younger, and as I've grown old, and I've
• 20:53
  Tad Eggleston: gotten to know my Western history better,
• 20:58
  Tad Eggleston: I'm often bothered by the lack of Black and Hispanic people in the Westerns. I'm often bothered by the portrayal of the Native Americans as either weak or absolute savages.
• 21:13
  Tad Eggleston: and this does a great job of portraying
• 21:22
  Tad Eggleston: a more in-depth version of the West.
• 21:25
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and a moral… and a moral person, you know, whatever morals we give to Jonah Hex, that… that… that, like.
• 21:36
  Tad Eggleston: they're more absolute, they're not, oh, you were a union guy, so I think this, or you're black, so I think that.
• 21:44
  Tad Eggleston: It's like…
• 21:46
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, I think that that's clear. I mean, like, I don't think he…
• 21:52
  Mark Pracht: Gives a wit one way or another.
• 21:54
  Tad Eggleston: No, he doesn't. He doesn't at all, but there's… there… I mean, there's a tendency in stuff like this to do color blindness rather than…
• 22:03
  Tad Eggleston: than…
• 22:06
  Tad Eggleston: actually, like, deal with it. Like, like, when he's at the Swamp House, you know, that's not colorblindness, it's, it's like…
• 22:14
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, no, that baby was still a baby. I don't care what you think of its father.
• 22:24
  Tad Eggleston: Y-you know, I mean, it…
• 22:25
  Sean Harklerode: are we talking about? Could we…
• 22:27
  Tad Eggleston: That was…
• 22:30
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I can't remember.
• 22:32
  Tad Eggleston: But the one in the swamp with the alligators?
• 22:35
  Tad Eggleston: Where they kept the mom, they killed the baby off-screen, he met the dad in town who gave him the…
• 22:46
  Sean Harklerode: Okay, I don't think I made it to that one.
• 22:48
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 22:49
  Tad Eggleston: It's one of my favorites.
• 22:51
  Tad Eggleston: both from a storytelling and a artistic… it would have been issue 10. Okay, Phil Noto on the art, too.
• 23:01
  Tad Eggleston: But again, you know, I mean…
• 23:09
  Tad Eggleston: And, you know, sometimes I can read…
• 23:11
  Tad Eggleston: Stories and not think of the context and what they're saying.
• 23:15
  Tad Eggleston: without saying it about the time, you know, and like, I'm certain that if I watched the Outlaw Josie Wales again 20 years from now, where hopefully the world is sane again, or if I'd watched it 15 years ago when it wasn't so crazy, it wouldn't have bothered me in the way that it bothered me.
• 23:37
  Mark Pracht: I get that. Look, man, it… like, I'm not trying to… I'm not trying… I'm just saying that, to me.
• 23:43
  Mark Pracht: that… that film has… that film has a pedigree that's really problematic. But I also think that,
• 23:56
  Mark Pracht: I think that there was a specific choice made, and I think that…
• 24:02
  Mark Pracht: When you go down a path of saying that
• 24:11
  Mark Pracht: I think that…
• 24:12
  Mark Pracht: You either don't want to tell stories about that time period, and actually, in the time period we're at right now, it's probably a good time to tell stories about that time period.
• 24:21
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, absolutely!
• 24:22
  Mark Pracht: And the thing is, is that I also think that, there are,
• 24:30
  Mark Pracht: Really horrible things that were done to people.
• 24:33
  Mark Pracht: both sides. I mean, that's… it's a war, right? Yeah. I think that… and I think that you… if you really want to talk about that movie, you have to talk about a man who had
• 24:45
  Mark Pracht: Who literally was living in the woods, farming, trying to stay out of the situation, and had it come to his own house.
• 24:53
  Tad Eggleston: Right. Had it burned down, had his wife raped, had his son killed.
• 24:57
  Mark Pracht: And then, literally, I mean, like, and the thing is, is like, what… and it's what Eastwood is good at, is the man who has the violence within him, who doesn't want to let it out, and then let.
• 25:08
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 25:08
  Mark Pracht: Right?
• 25:10
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I guess…
• 25:16
  Tad Eggleston: The Civil War has some similar both sides, the way we talk about both sides commit political violence right now.
• 25:25
  Tad Eggleston: Historians say one side did an awful lot more of it.
• 25:36
  Tad Eggleston: you know… And that, that makes it…
• 25:41
  Tad Eggleston: And again, like, that's why I do like this, because the Northerners, when fighting the Indians, were all about atrocities.
• 25:54
  Mark Pracht: I mean, I just think.
• 25:55
  Tad Eggleston: You know, they did not have it in them, they just were less likely…
• 26:00
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, even most of the well-documented atrocities done against
• 26:11
  Tad Eggleston: you know, flat-out done against Southern units were done by, by,
• 26:19
  Tad Eggleston: Black soldiers who escaped captivity, and it was… it was arguably a… a… well, you know, the southern… the southern position was, we don't take Black captives, we… we take them and then we kill them, so, like.
• 26:35
  Tad Eggleston: But then you have Sherman's March, and a lot of horrible things happened in Sherman's March.
• 26:42
  Tad Eggleston: You know, I mean, like, I get the complexity, but, like, when I…
• 26:51
  Tad Eggleston: When I watch Josie Wales, I don't feel the complexity.
• 26:57
  Tad Eggleston: I guess is what I'm saying.
• 26:59
  Tad Eggleston: I, I, I feel like North bad.
• 27:04
  Tad Eggleston: Southgood.
• 27:07
  Tad Eggleston: In terms of, like… and then, and then it's a human story, and the human story is outstanding.
• 27:13
  Tad Eggleston: The human story is outstanding, but, like, it could have been just as good of a human story if rather than making it the Union Army, you made it just a random band of bandits.
• 27:25
  Tad Eggleston: You know… But
• 27:29
  Tad Eggleston: I don't want to go too much further in this, because I have lots of other good things to say about Jonah Hacks.
• 27:35
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 27:37
  Tad Eggleston: Among other things, and I noticed this a lot with, Matt Fraction's first Batman issue.
• 27:46
  Tad Eggleston: But then I enjoyed it again, like…
• 27:51
  Tad Eggleston: There is so much to be said.
• 27:54
  Tad Eggleston: for… Beginning, middle, and end.
• 28:00
  Tad Eggleston: While still part of a bigger picture comic book stories.
• 28:04
  Mark Pracht: I… yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, look, like, I think that the huge strength of this series as a whole is that there were…
• 28:15
  Mark Pracht: blessedly few
• 28:18
  Mark Pracht: continued stories. Right. Stuff might come back, but… I mean, you know, it… it… it comes down to that… it comes down to that EC Comics thing of… it almost feels like a,
• 28:33
  Mark Pracht: Oh, what's the word?
• 28:45
  Mark Pracht: It almost feels like a Twilight Zone. Yeah, yeah, like, where…
• 28:49
  Sean Harklerode: morality, like…
• 28:50
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, it's like, we drop you into this situation, and then, yeah, okay, we're always gonna drop Jonah into it, but…
• 28:58
  Mark Pracht: It's… it… and… And sometimes, you're wondering what Jonah is gonna do, you know? Like.
• 29:05
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 29:05
  Mark Pracht: is he gonna go for the money? But then he never goes for the money. But it… one of the… one of the incredible things about the writing is that I think every time, I find myself wondering.
• 29:18
  Mark Pracht: Is he gonna go for the money?
• 29:20
  Mark Pracht: You know? And then, oh, oh no.
• 29:24
  Mark Pracht: like.
• 29:25
  Tad Eggleston: Well, because he also does just enough to, like, make out his greedy side, like, like…
• 29:30
  Mark Pracht: Sure.
• 29:33
  Tad Eggleston: Even… and Sean didn't get to it, but even in the swamp people, you know, he was given the deed by the man, but then he convinced the town sheriff to put out a bounty on them.
• 29:47
  Sean Harklerode: It reminds me of, you know, my favorite Western is Have Gun Will Travel with Paladin.
• 29:53
  Sean Harklerode: And, you know, You know, that, that show is… Fantastic.
• 29:59
  Sean Harklerode: Except in its portrayal of Asian Americans.
• 30:03
  Sean Harklerode: but, given that, you know.
• 30:10
  Sean Harklerode: He's dropped in, he always has a mercenary motive.
• 30:13
  Sean Harklerode: But… At some point, something trumps the mercenary motive.
• 30:20
  Sean Harklerode: And, he's always gonna stand for the oppressed.
• 30:27
  Sean Harklerode: You know, he's gonna be against bigotry.
• 30:32
  Sean Harklerode: and I… I enjoy that about these… these books as well.
• 30:41
  Mark Pracht: I mean, I know Sean didn't get to this one, but what was it, the last story of the second collection with the Mormons?
• 30:50
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 30:51
  Tad Eggleston: Was also fantastic.
• 30:53
  Mark Pracht: Where… and… and it's like, okay, I'm gonna… I'm gonna…
• 30:58
  Mark Pracht: I'm gonna stand with you, and then they prove to be… not…
• 31:04
  Mark Pracht: on the up and up, totally. I… it's… it… it… they… I… I… I love the way he… he…
• 31:13
  Mark Pracht: And it always is just like, fuck it. You know it's coming, you know? And, and
• 31:20
  Mark Pracht: I don't know, I could go one by one, like, I love all of this stuff. I love the thing… like…
• 31:27
  Sean Harklerode: And it's so…
• 31:28
  Mark Pracht: it's so super Pulp Fiction-y, but, like, training the little boys to fight dogs, that's, like…
• 31:39
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and that's one of the stories that comes back.
• 31:42
  Mark Pracht: Yep.
• 31:43
  Sean Harklerode: And that, something I found,
• 31:47
  Sean Harklerode: I don't know if you guys have read the original series, but that's a… that's enough.
• 31:53
  Tad Eggleston: There's a Fiona Staples issue?
• 31:58
  Sean Harklerode: So, issue one of the Palm Yondi Gray is basically a remake of Jonah Heck's one by Michael Flesher, and great art by JLGL.
• 32:10
  Mark Pracht: Huh.
• 32:11
  Sean Harklerode: There, the boys are fighting other boys.
• 32:15
  Sean Harklerode: But… So I read that one last night, and I was like, oh, wait! Yeah, this is great!
• 32:22
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 32:23
  Sean Harklerode: I have to say that the Palmiati in gray is…
• 32:27
  Sean Harklerode: More for, you know, today's…
• 32:30
  Sean Harklerode: standards. I don't know what…
• 32:33
  Sean Harklerode: Well, it wouldn't have been able to have been published in 1977.
• 32:37
  Mark Pracht: Sure.
• 32:37
  Sean Harklerode: Let's say.
• 32:40
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, the code as it was back then wouldn't have allowed this, but…
• 32:45
  Sean Harklerode: But I, I enjoyed, talking about the episodic nature and the man with no name, like, quality.
• 32:55
  Sean Harklerode: And so I haven't gotten to the origin story, so I don't know his origin story, and I kind of like that.
• 33:04
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I…
• 33:04
  Sean Harklerode: It's an avatar.
• 33:06
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 33:07
  Sean Harklerode: for me, he's an avatar of basically justice. He's… he's the avenging angel.
• 33:13
  Sean Harklerode: You know, here to, you know.
• 33:17
  Sean Harklerode: make things right. And I… I like that. It's why I like the first several issues of Doctor… of Ditko's Doctor Strange.
• 33:25
  Sean Harklerode: only time in, like, the bronze, or the Silver Age that I can think of that you just had a character start fully formed, and I think 6 issues in, they decided to give him an origin.
• 33:37
  Mark Pracht: Sure.
• 33:38
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I will say that I totally agree with that. I,
• 33:45
  Tad Eggleston: like, I probably wouldn't have kept reading, except I saw Origins, and I went, oh, this feels like it's gonna be a train wreck, and I was very happy that it wasn't, because up until then.
• 33:56
  Tad Eggleston: Like, you'd been building the character in your head, and, like, you knew that, like, every assumption you had could and would be turned on its head, or twisted, or whatever.
• 34:09
  Tad Eggleston: for that matter, I even think with the origin story, they told little enough of the origin story. It was told more as a revenge for the origin story.
• 34:18
  Tad Eggleston: Or revenge for things in his past, with, like, snippets that, like…
• 34:24
  Tad Eggleston: it further enhanced his character without setting things in stone, and I do think that that's one of the absolute
• 34:32
  Tad Eggleston: Beauties of the way they handle this character is, like, They know who he is.
• 34:38
  Tad Eggleston: But… but you don't.
• 34:40
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 34:41
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, I think… and that's…
• 34:43
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, his reputation precedes him everywhere.
• 34:47
  Mark Pracht: Yes.
• 34:48
  Sean Harklerode: They hear the.
• 34:49
  Mark Pracht: Everyone's like…
• 34:50
  Sean Harklerode: Whoa, whoa!
• 34:51
  Mark Pracht: Whoa, whoa, wait, Jonah Hex? Wait a minute. Right.
• 34:55
  Mark Pracht: But, I mean, I, I will…
• 34:57
  Sean Harklerode: Jacks and hell followed with him.
• 34:59
  Mark Pracht: The… and the, what is it, the acrid stench of gunsmoke?
• 35:05
  Mark Pracht: I… I will say, I…
• 35:08
  Mark Pracht: it's… it's… this series was so exciting for the art, because like you said, it's like a murderer's row of great artists came and worked on this book. But, I mean, I will say that Luke Ross, like,
• 35:21
  Mark Pracht: what's this one here with the,
• 35:25
  Mark Pracht: I love how they have the chapter titles, too, during the course of it, you know, the Plague of Salvation, or whatever, and it's, the one…
• 35:34
  Mark Pracht: Where there's the… the… the nun…
• 35:40
  Mark Pracht: That he has a past with.
• 35:43
  Mark Pracht: And…
• 35:44
  Mark Pracht: And, there's this, like… and she gets caught in the fire and dies in his arms by the… the… and then they cut to him walking into town.
• 35:56
  Mark Pracht: And,
• 35:58
  Mark Pracht: A Cult in the Fist of the Devil, it's 137 in the collection page. And it's just like…
• 36:07
  Mark Pracht: you just see him walking into town with the gun, and it's just, like, the smoke behind him, and I'm just like, this is fucking incredible. Like, it's so… iconically…
• 36:20
  Mark Pracht: I mean, look… I famously have this problem with the Punisher as a character.
• 36:29
  Mark Pracht: Because I think that it… it… It tries to excuse…
• 36:35
  Mark Pracht: It tries to put this kind of morality in a modern setting, and it doesn't work for me in a modern setting.
• 36:41
  Mark Pracht: And maybe that's my own lack of…
• 36:46
  Mark Pracht: lack of imagination, but when you put it in the Old West, where it's like…
• 36:52
  Mark Pracht: In many ways, it was, you know.
• 36:55
  Mark Pracht: Whoever was the strongest got to make the rules.
• 36:58
  Mark Pracht: it's always kind of, like, seeing somebody like Jonah rise up and be like, oh no, we're not doing this.
• 37:05
  Mark Pracht: And it's just like… and knowing that it's gonna be… that the… the…
• 37:13
  Mark Pracht: the punishment is gonna be just as cruel, if that's… I don't know.
• 37:20
  Sean Harklerode: Well, I… Punisher works as a villain.
• 37:23
  Sean Harklerode: Button.
• 37:24
  Mark Pracht: Absolutely.
• 37:24
  Sean Harklerode: when you make him a hero, I think the best
• 37:27
  Sean Harklerode: the best use of him is the Garth Ennis
• 37:30
  Sean Harklerode: Early 2000s run, which to me reminds me of, Judge Dredd.
• 37:36
  Sean Harklerode: It's a satire.
• 37:38
  Mark Pracht: Sure, 100%, yeah, yeah.
• 37:40
  Sean Harklerode: I attire, and…
• 37:41
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, yeah.
• 37:43
  Mark Pracht: And I'm a huge Judge Dredd fan, so, I mean, like, I totally understand that, and I think that Ennis is really good at that. I think Ennis can sometimes…
• 37:51
  Mark Pracht: turn the corner where, yeah, okay, it's satire. I don't know that this is satire. I think you're…
• 37:57
  Mark Pracht: But…
• 37:58
  Sean Harklerode: Go back, again, we keep getting on tangents, but, you know, to me…
• 38:03
  Tad Eggleston: This is what we do.
• 38:04
  Sean Harklerode: when you go back to Vietnam, and Frank's already a killer, that… you've lost me.
• 38:09
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 38:10
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I think, yeah, I think that…
• 38:12
  Sean Harklerode: As good as those stories actually…
• 38:15
  Sean Harklerode: Well crafted, but to me, it destroys Something important about the character.
• 38:20
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, like, it's the same thing, I mean, not to… not to revisit the Jonah… Josie Wales thing, but it has to be…
• 38:31
  Mark Pracht: a man who… has skills, Trying to live his life outside of this…
• 38:39
  Mark Pracht: world of violence, and then the world of violence comes into his life, and then…
• 38:44
  Sean Harklerode: There's an inciting event.
• 38:46
  Mark Pracht: Right. And if… if…
• 38:49
  Mark Pracht: I mean, I guess I can sort of see, but, like, if he's going… yeah, I don't… I don't… I tend to agree. I also think the Punisher is much more interesting as a…
• 39:02
  Mark Pracht: a villain.
• 39:05
  Mark Pracht: But, anyway, also, if the Punisher had a huge, massive scar on his face, I might find him more interesting.
• 39:15
  Mark Pracht: Because, I mean, like, like.
• 39:17
  Tad Eggleston: No, to the next Punisher… I mean, ironically, Paul Miotti's doing Punisher right now.
• 39:25
  Mark Pracht: maybe I should read it then, I don't know, maybe fix it for me, but, like, part… part of, like, part of what's super cool, you know, and it's Dezunga, or DeZuniga, or however you say his name, you know, who draws a couple of these issues,
• 39:41
  Mark Pracht: As the co-creator, that…
• 39:48
  Mark Pracht: I think that that image, the image of his face, is… Speaks volumes about what… Sean's laughing.
• 40:02
  Sean Harklerode: I'm, I can't… I don't want to spoil
• 40:06
  Sean Harklerode: The movie we saw yesterday, but…
• 40:10
  Sean Harklerode: When you mention his face, it reminds me of…
• 40:12
  Mark Pracht: Don't think that I didn't think about that when we were about to get on today.
• 40:19
  Tad Eggleston: What movie did you see yesterday?
• 40:20
  Mark Pracht: One battle after another.
• 40:22
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 40:23
  Mark Pracht: Shh… Ball.
• 40:26
  Mark Pracht: Actually.
• 40:31
  Mark Pracht: Man, if you wanted to make… if you wanted to make a Jonah Hex movie now.
• 40:36
  Mark Pracht: You could do worse than Sean Penn.
• 40:38
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 40:39
  Mark Pracht: But, but no, that image, like, it speaks to…
• 40:51
  Mark Pracht: It's almost… it's very… it's very similar to the Two-Face thing, except not as…
• 40:59
  Mark Pracht: it's much more Pulp Fiction than comic book-y, right? It's that idea that there are these forces inside of this man, the cruelty and the empathy and the… and the violence and the…
• 41:13
  Mark Pracht: And the ability to be tender, that are in… that…
• 41:22
  Mark Pracht: are trying to be balanced, and I think that that is
• 41:27
  Mark Pracht: I, like, the visual… the visual metaphor of it is so cool.
• 41:36
  Mark Pracht: Anyway.
• 41:37
  Mark Pracht: Sorry, I… I'm just in love with this book. I… I… re-reading.
• 41:42
  Tad Eggleston: There are a lot of reasons to be in love with this book. I'm gonna… I'm gonna bring up another one.
• 41:48
  Sean Harklerode: I'm… I'm gonna continue reading.
• 41:50
  Tad Eggleston: Did you notice… The… there's one…
• 42:02
  Tad Eggleston: Like, layout trait that seems to go across most of the…
• 42:11
  Tad Eggleston: different artists, so I have to assume that it was something that Palmiati came up with, as he's an artist himself, and it became part of the… the visual…
• 42:22
  Tad Eggleston: The visual, blueprint for the book.
• 42:30
  Tad Eggleston: Did you notice the number of…
• 42:34
  Tad Eggleston: like… for lack of a better term, I'm gonna call them 70 millimeter panels. You know, the widescreen. Well, not just the widescreen, but the widescreen on one page, and much thinner than they would be normally in a comic, you know.
• 42:50
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 42:52
  Tad Eggleston: I mean… I loved that.
• 42:54
  Sean Harklerode: panels?
• 42:54
  Sean Harklerode: Which are difficult to read digitally.
• 42:58
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 43:00
  Mark Pracht: I actually was, like, many times when I'm reading stuff digitally, I get really frustrated because my… my inclination is to want to put the full page up and read it. And sometimes, with my aging and failing eyesight, I can't read it, right?
• 43:19
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 43:20
  Mark Pracht: So, I was actually… Super fucking excited that
• 43:28
  Mark Pracht: all through these first two collections, and I am definitely gonna reread the whole series now. I mean… Right. It's… it's so… it brought back everything for me. I was just like, ugh, this is why… I, like, could not wait for the new issues to come out. But,
• 43:49
  Mark Pracht: And it's… it's the, the,
• 43:58
  Mark Pracht: The dialogue is nothing but what is necessary
• 44:03
  Mark Pracht: and they allow the art to carry it. And I think that those widescreen panels, I mean, and that's, you know, that's really… I mean, that's part of it. I am looking here, what is… what issue is this?
• 44:16
  Mark Pracht: I do hate this.
• 44:19
  Tad Eggleston: It almost also makes me wonder if Quentin Tarantino is a comic book guy?
• 44:24
  Tad Eggleston: Because, like… Hitful E.
• 44:27
  Sean Harklerode: I know it! I'm a Gunhawk fan!
• 44:31
  Tad Eggleston: Great. He is a good house today.
• 44:32
  Sean Harklerode: back to Gunhawks!
• 44:34
  Tad Eggleston: Everything comes back to Gunhawks. No, I, I, I, you know, I remember people being,
• 44:41
  Tad Eggleston: some people being upset about the fact that he wasted 70mm on doing Hateful Eight all inside of one room, and, like, A, I thought that was brilliant, and B, that's sometimes how these wide panels are used.
• 44:57
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 44:59
  Tad Eggleston: Here.
• 45:01
  Sean Harklerode: Folks, if you, if you enjoyed The Hateful Eight, watch Sergio Corbucci's The Great Silence.
• 45:07
  Sean Harklerode: The Great Silence? Yes.
• 45:08
  Mark Pracht: Wait.
• 45:09
  Mark Pracht: Wait, you're saying that Tarantino sort of… aped somebody else's movie, and…
• 45:16
  Sean Harklerode: It's…
• 45:18
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 45:19
  Sean Harklerode: No, look, I really enjoy Hateful Eight New Year's Eve to see it in 70mm, the road show with intermission, and even have to have my, program at the music box, but,
• 45:36
  Sean Harklerode: if you watch The Great Silence, it's like, wow.
• 45:41
  Sean Harklerode: He lifts a number of motifs from that film.
• 45:45
  Mark Pracht: Nope.
• 45:46
  Sean Harklerode: But you can't… you can't lift Klaus Kinski in one of the darkest… it's… it's one of the darkest films I've ever seen.
• 45:56
  Tad Eggleston: I just saw Kinski in,
• 45:59
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, it was a Werner Herzog, the one down in the jungle.
• 46:05
  Mark Pracht: Which one?
• 46:05
  Sean Harklerode: Girl, huh.
• 46:06
  Mark Pracht: I… Fitzgeraldo, Agari, Raph Godd.
• 46:10
  Tad Eggleston: A Gary. A Gary.
• 46:11
  Sean Harklerode: Yo!
• 46:13
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah… I really like the…
• 46:15
  Sean Harklerode: I've never seen that.
• 46:18
  Tad Eggleston: I really like that.
• 46:21
  Mark Pracht: Kinski is a… Kinsuki is a madman!
• 46:27
  Sean Harklerode: True.
• 46:30
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, you know, it's always, it's always funny, you know, you always go, like, Warner Herzog is, like, nuts. And then you see Klaus Kinski, and you're like, oh, no he isn't.
• 46:43
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, apparently, Kinski,
• 46:49
  Tad Eggleston: Fired 3 rounds into the extra tent.
• 46:54
  Tad Eggleston: during that movie, and Herzog had to confiscate his Winchester.
• 47:01
  Sean Harklerode: Wow.
• 47:02
  Mark Pracht: You know.
• 47:02
  Tad Eggleston: Actually, this is where I'm gonna… I'm gonna do a quick plug for, what's the name of the channel?
• 47:12
  Tad Eggleston: I, I… Aguirre is… is part of a channel That, it's on… Shout TV.
• 47:23
  Tad Eggleston: Which I got… I got the subscription to, because the movie that Alan Moore made is also on Shout TV.
• 47:32
  Tad Eggleston: But for Aguirre, they have both the subtitled version, and they have a commentary version, so listening to Herzog talk about it 30 years later was, like, really, really cool.
• 47:46
  Mark Pracht: I was, burden of Dreams, which is that documentary that they made about making Fitzgeraldo, which…
• 47:55
  Mark Pracht: Is the most insane story.
• 47:58
  Mark Pracht: That film is amazing, and the making of it is clearly… Nuts.
• 48:04
  Mark Pracht: But, like, Herzog… Saying that… the native… Workers.
• 48:14
  Mark Pracht: and extras.
• 48:15
  Tad Eggleston: Also on Shout TV. It's great.
• 48:17
  Mark Pracht: Come to him, and they say.
• 48:20
  Mark Pracht: We will kill him for you.
• 48:23
  Mark Pracht: And I'm like… And her song is like.
• 48:34
  Tad Eggleston: That's, that's, that's pretty great. What was the name of the document?
• 48:37
  Mark Pracht: I mean, you know, and everybody thinks Jared Leto is an asshole.
• 48:42
  Tad Eggleston: What was the name of the documentary?
• 48:44
  Mark Pracht: Burden of Dreams.
• 48:48
  Mark Pracht: It's… it's really good. I mean, and it's… it's… you know.
• 48:53
  Mark Pracht: It's… and it's… it's a lot of Herzog doing the Herzog thing, you know?
• 48:58
  Mark Pracht: The… here we are in the… here we are in the jungle.
• 49:03
  Mark Pracht: It is full of… some people think the jungle is full of life, but we all know it is death.
• 49:09
  Mark Pracht: There is nothing but death here.
• 49:14
  Mark Pracht: It's fucking amazing.
• 49:16
  Sean Harklerode: The greatest real estate agent.
• 49:18
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I know.
• 49:18
  Sean Harklerode: ever in Pawnee, Indiana history.
• 49:26
  Mark Pracht: Oh, I love… I love… I love Werner so much.
• 49:31
  Mark Pracht: Somebody fucking ate his shoe.
• 49:34
  Sean Harklerode: Chew!
• 49:35
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 49:35
  Sean Harklerode: Gates of Heaven.
• 49:39
  Mark Pracht: Anyway…
• 49:40
  Sean Harklerode: If you make this movie, I will eat my shoe.
• 49:48
  Mark Pracht: I must eat my shoe.
• 49:51
  Mark Pracht: See, now… now all I want is Werner Herzog's Jonah Hex.
• 49:57
  Mark Pracht: Somebody get James Gunn on the phone.
• 50:04
  Mark Pracht: Anyway…
• 50:04
  Sean Harklerode: Penn, we got Werner Herzog, we got a show.
• 50:08
  Mark Pracht: We got…
• 50:10
  Mark Pracht: Fucking, yeah, I… I would… like, and, like, actually, you go through these Luke Ross pages, you've got almost the whole thing cast, there's, god, there's… I'm looking through this one thing, and there's, like,
• 50:23
  Mark Pracht: I can't remember the actor's name, but he was,
• 50:29
  Mark Pracht: he… I think he played Eastwood's sidekick in the Any Which Way You Can movies?
• 50:35
  Sean Harklerode: Oh, Roberts?
• 50:37
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I think so. He's, like… the…
• 50:40
  Mark Pracht: the doctor or the judge, like, it's clearly him. Like, there's this one drawing, and you're like, hmm, that's him. But, I mean, but to your point, and I… I don't wanna, I don't wanna,
• 50:55
  Mark Pracht: I don't want to discount the other genius artists' work on this series, because they're all great, but Luke Ross, like, really started this thing out with a bang, and it is exactly what Sean says. Like, clearly, he is incredible with likenesses, and he's casting it
• 51:13
  Mark Pracht: Beautifully.
• 51:14
  Sean Harklerode: It's not Robert, it's, Juliet Lewis's father, right?
• 51:19
  Mark Pracht: I think so.
• 51:20
  Mark Pracht: I… I don't… I don't remember, but I mean, it's… it's clearly him. But I mean, it doesn't… and I know exactly what Sean is talking about in those… Yeah, very little.
• 51:31
  Sean Harklerode: Right, it drives me crazy.
• 51:33
  Mark Pracht: Because… and it is what he's talking about in the modern Marvel
• 51:41
  Mark Pracht: Star Wars series, like, the likenesses became… Overwhelmingly static, and overwhelmingly…
• 51:50
  Mark Pracht: like, it's the same… it's the same problem that I have with a lot of Alex Ross' sequential work, is that, okay, it doesn't feel like it's…
• 52:00
  Mark Pracht: there's no dynamic element to it, and I feel like…
• 52:04
  Mark Pracht: Luke Ross is able to get that very, very… realistic…
• 52:12
  Mark Pracht: Likeness, but then make everything feel… Propulsive.
• 52:19
  Mark Pracht: I haven't seen his… I haven't seen him working on anything in a long time that I know of.
• 52:26
  Mark Pracht: And, I… but he's really good.
• 52:32
  Mark Pracht: And it's like, the likenesses are great, but then it's just a little bit cartoony, like, I'm looking at this same picture, it's almost,
• 52:41
  Mark Pracht: In the same image with the Jeffrey Lewis guy.
• 52:45
  Mark Pracht: There's this woman that almost has a,
• 52:54
  Mark Pracht: Oh, who am I thinking about?
• 52:58
  Mark Pracht: Kevin McGuire kind of feel to it. Like…
• 53:02
  Mark Pracht: it's just that, like… because I always thought Kevin Maguire was… great facial period, she's a little bit cartoony, but also not so cartoony that it didn't… it lost reality, but…
• 53:12
  Mark Pracht: Anyway.
• 53:14
  Mark Pracht: I'm blathering now. Somebody else talk.
• 53:22
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, I… Like I say, I really, enjoy it, and will probably continue,
• 53:30
  Sean Harklerode: This was not something that I had read. My brother had actually recommended it to me.
• 53:35
  Sean Harklerode: Back when it was coming out.
• 53:39
  Sean Harklerode: But, you know, you only have so much time.
• 53:42
  Sean Harklerode: But, I mean, to me, looking back on it, it's like, seems like probably one of the best things from the new 52.
• 53:50
  Sean Harklerode: well.
• 53:53
  Mark Pracht: This series, the original series, predated the.
• 53:56
  Sean Harklerode: Free day today, right?
• 53:57
  Mark Pracht: Because the New 52, they canceled Jonah Hex, but then made All-Star Western.
• 54:02
  Mark Pracht: Which…
• 54:05
  Mark Pracht: I will say that when it switched to the All-Star Western, I kinda lost… same team, but they were suddenly, like, beholden to some sort of continuity. Like, they took… they took… they took Jonah out of the Old West and moved him to Gotham.
• 54:24
  Mark Pracht: So he was operating in Gotham City, like, in the 1800s, but I was like, I don't want to read this. I wanna… I wanna… I want Jonah
• 54:34
  Mark Pracht: Out on the frontier, you know.
• 54:37
  Mark Pracht: doing the Jonah thing. I don't need to, like… I don't need to know how Jonah Hex ties into the Court of Owls.
• 54:43
  Mark Pracht: You know.
• 54:44
  Sean Harklerode: But for anyone who is interested in reading those, there is an all-star Western omnibus coming out at the end of October, so…
• 54:53
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 54:54
  Mark Pracht: Can you guess…
• 54:55
  Sean Harklerode: Can you, you know, monetize that at all? I'm trying to help you here.
• 55:01
  Tad Eggleston: I don't know. I don't know.
• 55:05
  Mark Pracht: You gotta… you gotta… you gotta do that, Ted! Come on, man.
• 55:08
  Tad Eggleston: Monetizing is something I'm not great at, though I will point out that,
• 55:13
  Tad Eggleston: patreon.com slash 22panels podcast, I think? Let me… let me make certain I even have the link right.
• 55:25
  Tad Eggleston: You know, one…
• 55:26
  Mark Pracht: I mean, I need… I need to get better about monitoring when… I… I… I would say… this is maybe off… off… off-recording time.
• 55:36
  Tad Eggleston: Finally have something resembling an Instagram game. Thanks, Kelly.
• 55:42
  Mark Pracht: I… I mean, I…
• 55:43
  Tad Eggleston: Kelly has taken over the… yes, it is. Patreon.com slash 22panels podcast, all one word, if you'd like to kick us some money and join my mom and brother among our contributors.
• 55:58
  Mark Pracht: It would be… I'm gonna ask you, it would be really nice if, when these episodes go up.
• 56:07
  Mark Pracht: You could let us know.
• 56:09
  Tad Eggleston: I'll do my best. I'll do my best. I am now the one putting up the episodes, so I will actually know, because Tyler has gone on hiatus as he opens his comic shop. And I will say, Kelly has been very on top of when the episodes go up, she puts something up on…
• 56:29
  Tad Eggleston: Instagram now. So… so if I forget to let you know…
• 56:35
  Mark Pracht: there'll probably be an Instagram post that you'll be tagged in.
• 56:39
  Mark Pracht: Wow, cause, you know, you know I'll, I'll put it on my website, and I'll.
• 56:42
  Tad Eggleston: I know you will. I know you will. So I must get much better at that, and I must start bringing in information.
• 56:48
  Sean Harklerode: fraud.
• 56:52
  Mark Pracht: You can't spell prop without PR.
• 56:55
  Tad Eggleston: Hi, my.
• 56:56
  Mark Pracht: My… my… 3 to 5 visitors to my website every week.
• 57:03
  Tad Eggleston: Hey, hey!
• 57:04
  Tad Eggleston: I've actually been gaining Instagram, people, because Kelly does such a good job.
• 57:12
  Tad Eggleston: We, we are up to… What are we up to?
• 57:18
  Tad Eggleston: It's some… some ridiculous number, at least from my perspective. 347 followers.
• 57:25
  Mark Pracht: Look at that!
• 57:26
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I guess at one point we were over a thousand on Twitter, but I don't like Twitter anymore.
• 57:34
  Mark Pracht: I haven't been on Twitter in… I'm guessing 12 years.
• 57:39
  Tad Eggleston: I will occasionally pop in if somebody tags us on something, like, they were in our episode, and… and…
• 57:49
  Tad Eggleston: and they put it up on Twitter, I'll go in and like it, and that's it.
• 57:55
  Tad Eggleston: I mean… I guess we do have 564 Blue Sky followers, so I should… I should do better there, too.
• 58:02
  Mark Pracht: I think I… that… that type of… that type of social media just kind of makes me insane. I… I can't…
• 58:10
  Mark Pracht: like, even Blue Sky, I'm just like, I can't… I can't deal with all this shit. And like, threads is bad, too. I… I… Instagram never bothers me.
• 58:21
  Mark Pracht: I, like, I put up a picture.
• 58:23
  Mark Pracht: Actually, Facebook doesn't bother me, but that's mainly because my friends list is pretty well curated at this point.
• 58:29
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 58:29
  Mark Pracht: And I have my… I have my public list… public…
• 58:33
  Mark Pracht: Page for, like, my writing and acting stuff, but not… .
• 58:38
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 58:39
  Mark Pracht: But anyway, I… I…
• 58:45
  Mark Pracht: not to get way off topic, because, like, I just think, and maybe we're getting close to wrapping up here, I don't know, but, probably.
• 58:54
  Mark Pracht: I legitimately think that this Jonah Heck series is… one of the…
• 59:05
  Mark Pracht: 2 or 3 best ongoing series of the 21st century in my book.
• 59:12
  Tad Eggleston: I… I actually don't disagree with you.
• 59:16
  Tad Eggleston: At all.
• 59:16
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 59:17
  Tad Eggleston: I think it's…
• 59:20
  Mark Pracht: It was a…
• 59:20
  Tad Eggleston: 2 or 3 maybe… maybe not quite, but… But…
• 59:26
  Tad Eggleston: way up there, and I read way more comics than you do, so…
• 59:30
  Sean Harklerode: Wow.
• 59:32
  Sean Harklerode: Like, say, I'm, I got, like, 7 or 8 in.
• 59:35
  Sean Harklerode: And really enjoy it, so.
• 59:38
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 59:38
  Sean Harklerode: fun.
• 59:39
  Mark Pracht: I mean, and I… I agree.
• 59:40
  Sean Harklerode: than the two of you.
• 59:42
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, like, I think it is… it is a… I kinda… it had… it's been a while since it ended.
• 59:49
  Mark Pracht: Since they switched it to the All-Star Western, which I was disappointed with. It's still… there was still highlights there, but…
• 59:58
  Mark Pracht: I… I… it felt like…
• 1:00:01
  Mark Pracht: as with a lot of the New 52 stuff, it felt like it was about tying everything more closely into a continuity, and I didn't need or want that with Jonah Hex. Although, oh my god, we didn't even talk about this,
• 1:00:19
  Mark Pracht: And this… I don't think Sean… Sean absolutely didn't get to these. The fact that they brought in some of the… the, the…
• 1:00:29
  Mark Pracht: DC Western characters that.
• 1:00:31
  Tad Eggleston: Felt like they should not…
• 1:00:33
  Sean Harklerode: Well, Bat Flash was in.
• 1:00:35
  Mark Pracht: Batlash. They bat lash.
• 1:00:38
  Mark Pracht: I… I… when that start… I remember when that happened, when I was first reading these books, and I was like, how the hell are you gonna make Batlash work in this… in this war… in this… this world that you've created for… for Jonah? And yet they did, and they did the same thing with El Diablo. Like, these characters that are much more…
• 1:00:58
  Mark Pracht: fanciful than… than Jonah, and somehow Palmiati and Gray and the artists involved with each one of those, they… they made those characters work in that realm, and it… it…
• 1:01:11
  Mark Pracht: This… this… this is the DC Western continuity that I want to see continued. That's me. I, like, this is… I… I… you know, if they… I think they… I think as the series goes on, if I remember correctly, they bring in a lot more. They bring in, like, Scalp Hunter, and
• 1:01:31
  Mark Pracht: cinnamon, and oh, God.
• 1:01:37
  Mark Pracht: trying to think. But I mean, they do… they make an effort to bring in a lot of those DC… classic DC Western characters, and it's… I thought, in every case, it worked really well, and…
• 1:01:53
  Mark Pracht: I… and I actually… I could have done… I could have done with a Batlash Jonah Hex miniseries, actually, after those couple… that issue that he was in. I just love them together. Anyway…
• 1:02:07
  Sean Harklerode: El Diablo, Lois Lane's, what, great, great, great… Grandfather?
• 1:02:16
  Mark Pracht: I didn't.
• 1:02:17
  Tad Eggleston: Sounds right.
• 1:02:20
  Mark Pracht: Now you've.
• 1:02:20
  Sean Harklerode: Same.
• 1:02:23
  Mark Pracht: Now, now, I have to know
• 1:02:27
  Mark Pracht: You've told me that there's direct continuity, and now I have to burn all the issues.
• 1:02:35
  Sean Harklerode: Mark Fry.
• 1:02:37
  Mark Pracht: Hates canon.
• 1:02:40
  Tad Eggleston: So, now…
• 1:02:41
  Sean Harklerode: William Conrad?
• 1:02:43
  Tad Eggleston: Let's, let's, let's, let us discuss what comes next.
• 1:02:54
  Tad Eggleston: at this point, I have… I have 3 ideas in my head. The one is we've enjoyed this enough that if we wanted to continue Jonah Hex, I would not actually be opposed.
• 1:03:07
  Tad Eggleston: The… the second is,
• 1:03:14
  Tad Eggleston: Bendis and Sundres just did the first volume of 100 Bullets that we have been talking about doing, I think, since we started this club.
• 1:03:24
  Mark Pracht: I missed that, I meant to jump on for it, and then I forgot.
• 1:03:27
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. It was fun.
• 1:03:30
  Tad Eggleston: But then third is the fifth volume of Palomino, which just came out.
• 1:03:36
  Tad Eggleston: And I really, really, really love Stephen Frank's Pelomino, and want to do that at some point for this show.
• 1:03:44
  Mark Pracht: I am… I am amenable to all of those. I will say… This made me so excited.
• 1:03:52
  Mark Pracht: about…
• 1:03:54
  Mark Pracht: this book again, I am way into doing at least one more episode, like, another two collections, or three collections, or whatever. Like, I… that… that's my… my gut saying that. I'm not…
• 1:04:10
  Tad Eggleston: No, I like that idea.
• 1:04:11
  Mark Pracht: else, too.
• 1:04:12
  Tad Eggleston: Ron, are you okay with that.
• 1:04:12
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, yeah, I'm fine with that.
• 1:04:15
  Tad Eggleston: Then let's, let's shoot for through Volume 4 of Jonah Hex.
• 1:04:20
  Tad Eggleston: For next month, and if we get further, even better.
• 1:04:23
  Sean Harklerode: That's right. And, I, you know, you know me, I keep wanting… well, when we get our Alex Toth,
• 1:04:31
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, no, that, that… when we have Alex talk… That's a done deal. …it will… it will be…
• 1:04:37
  Tad Eggleston: It will… it will slot in.
• 1:04:40
  Sean Harklerode: Because, yeah.
• 1:04:42
  Tad Eggleston: And for that matter, at some point, I also want to do Torpedo, which Alex Toth did the first.
• 1:04:48
  Tad Eggleston: The first volume. And I think Jordy Burnett did the second volume, who did some of these, too.
• 1:04:55
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 1:04:57
  Mark Pracht: Man, yeah, like, ugh, god, this series.
• 1:05:00
  Tad Eggleston: And actually, the most recent torpedo was done by Eduardo Visso.
• 1:05:07
  Tad Eggleston: So, yeah, that's… that's a series that… have you guys read any Torpedo?
• 1:05:17
  Mark Pracht: I have not.
• 1:05:21
  Tad Eggleston: No, but I'm thinking of a specific…
• 1:05:22
  Sean Harklerode: I don't tap song right now.
• 1:05:24
  Tad Eggleston: No, it's a… it's a… it's a… it's a Spanish comic series by Enrico Sanchez-Abuli.
• 1:05:31
  Tad Eggleston: mostly drawn by Jordy Burnett, but, like, the…
• 1:05:35
  Tad Eggleston: burst issues. I think the first…
• 1:05:40
  Tad Eggleston: 6 or 10 issues were Alex Toth.
• 1:05:44
  Tad Eggleston: So… Yeah, it's, it's, it's… It's some… Dark mob stuff.
• 1:05:55
  Tad Eggleston: With a, with a decidedly, spanish spin.
• 1:06:00
  Mark Pracht: Oh.
• 1:06:01
  Mark Pracht: They're torpedoes.
• 1:06:06
  Mark Pracht: I think… isn't that what… isn't that what… wasn't that, slang for hitmen?
• 1:06:11
  Tad Eggleston: Possibly.
• 1:06:13
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 1:06:14
  Sean Harklerode: Fire… Botox…
• 1:06:16
  Mark Pracht: Torpe!
• 1:06:19
  Sean Harklerode: Yo!
• 1:06:20
  Mark Pracht: No… You forgot.
• 1:06:24
  Tad Eggleston: actually started in… Creepy.
• 1:06:31
  Mark Pracht: Sean and I are just, out of…
• 1:06:34
  Tad Eggleston: I see that, I see that. You guys are in sync and going off on all sorts of pop culture references that I don't actually know as well as you do, but I'm enjoying…
• 1:06:43
  Sean Harklerode: The motion picture. Underrated movie.
• 1:06:47
  Tad Eggleston: It is.
• 1:06:48
  Sean Harklerode: my opinion.
• 1:06:49
  Tad Eggleston: It is.
• 1:06:51
  Mark Pracht: Yay!
• 1:06:51
  Tad Eggleston: I will say…
• 1:06:53
  Tad Eggleston: For Sean Huggerwood and Mark Pratt, this has been the Pulp Plotter on 22 panels, and we will see you after the next page.