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That Time A Journalist From Mother Jones Called Everyone In Epstein's Black Book · The Epstein Chronicles

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Speaker 1: Over at Mother Jones, a journalist named Leland Nolley called
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Speaker 1: every single person in Jeffrey Epstein's black book and then
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Speaker 1: wrote a very detailed and very long article describing those
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Speaker 1: phone calls. So what we're going to do today is
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Speaker 1: we're going to break this article down into two parts.
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Speaker 1: The first part is right here and right now. on
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Speaker 1: the morning update, and then the second part will be
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Speaker 1: later on tonight on the Daily Drop. So, let's just
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Speaker 1: jump right in considering how long this article is and
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Speaker 1: how much we have to work through. This article, like
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Speaker 1: I said, Mother Jones. Headline, I called everyone in Jeffrey
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Speaker 1: Epstein's Little Black Book. What I learned about rich people, conspiracy, genius, Ghislaine,
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Speaker 1: stand-up comedy... And evil from 2,000 phone calls. And the author, again,
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Speaker 1: is Leland Nolley. And a tip of the cap to
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Speaker 1: Leland for this article. This is an in-depth article. Very,
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Speaker 1: very large article. And he obviously did a lot of work. 2,000
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Speaker 1: phone calls. That's just... It's like a nightmare for me.
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Speaker 1: I can't imagine sitting around making 2,000 phone calls. But
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Speaker 1: I'll tell you, this is an interesting... subject and an
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Speaker 1: interesting way to go about the investigation why not get
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Speaker 1: right down to it and call some of the people
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Speaker 1: in this book and that's exactly what this author did
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Speaker 1: and a tip of the hat to you Leland good
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Speaker 1: job buddy Jeffrey Epstein's little black book is one of
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Speaker 1: the most cursed documents ever compiled in this miserable dying
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Speaker 1: country and Yeah, hey, he's not wrong about that, right?
1:51
Speaker 1: Pax Americana ended the day those planes hit the buildings.
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Speaker 1: And it's just gotten worse progressively since then. And, I mean, honestly,
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Speaker 1: it looks like a country that's in its dying throes
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Speaker 1: right now, America. It's embarrassing. What's going on in the
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Speaker 1: streets is embarrassing. The way people conduct themselves is embarrassing.
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Speaker 1: It's just an absolute shitshow all the way around. And
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Speaker 1: then you add on the little black book, and boy,
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Speaker 1: oh boy, that definitely is one of the worst of
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Speaker 1: the worst documents ever compiled, right? Totaling 97 pages and
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Speaker 1: containing the names, numbers, and addresses of a considerable cross-section
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Speaker 1: of the global elite, Epstein's personal contact book first turned
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Speaker 1: up in a courtroom in 2009 after his former butler,
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Speaker 1: Alfredo Rodriguez... tried to sell it to lawyers representing Epstein's
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Speaker 1: survivors for $ 50, 000. Rodriguez described the book, apparently assembled by
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Speaker 1: Epstein's employees as the Holy Grail. Yeah, look, but, you know, again,
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Speaker 1: I've always wondered, was it really Epstein's book anyway? How
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Speaker 1: much of it was Ghislaine's? How much did Ghislaine have
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Speaker 1: to do with the book? You know, she was in
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Speaker 1: charge of a lot of the social... situations, right? Now,
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Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, I'm sure Epstein was penning names
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Speaker 1: in that book as well, but I bet you Ghislaine
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Speaker 1: had just as much access to it, and, you know,
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Speaker 1: she was in charge of the Rolodex, and let's remember, folks,
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Speaker 1: she had a leadership role. So, I'm guessing that we
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Speaker 1: should be calling this the Maxwell-Epstein Black Book. Rodriguez described
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Speaker 1: the book, apparently assembled by Epstein's employees, as the Holy Grail.
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Speaker 1: It is annotated with cryptic Marginalia, stars next to certain entries,
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Speaker 1: arrows pointing towards others, and the names of at least
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Speaker 1: 38 people are circled for reasons that aren't totally clear.
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Speaker 1: There are 1,571 names in all, with roughly 5,000 phone
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Speaker 1: numbers and thousands of emails and home addresses. There are celebrities,
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Speaker 1: princes and princesses, high-profile scientists, artists from all over the world,
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Speaker 1: all along, all alongside some of the world's most powerful
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Speaker 1: oligarchs and political leaders. People like Prince Andrew, Ehud Barak,
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Speaker 1: and Donald Trump. And the fact that Epstein not only
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Speaker 1: was palling around with these people at so-called events, like
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Speaker 1: they said, right? Oh, we were just at parties together. Well,
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Speaker 1: you were close enough that your names were in the book, right?
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Speaker 1: So let's not act like, you know, the marathon defense
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Speaker 1: is going to work here, folks. We have some questions and,
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Speaker 1: you know, some answers are probably a good idea. And
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Speaker 1: what the author of the article did here was really
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Speaker 1: good work, right? He said, you know what? The hell
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Speaker 1: with the nonsense. I'm going to go directly to these people.
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Speaker 1: I'm going to make these phone calls and we'll see
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Speaker 1: what's what. Rodriguez was Epstein's butler at his Palm Beach
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Speaker 1: mansion for many years. He was intimately familiar with his
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Speaker 1: boss's sexual proclivities. He claimed to have seen nude underage
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Speaker 1: girls at Epstein's pool, said that he would routinely wipe
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Speaker 1: down and stow away sex toys in Epstein's room after massages,
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Speaker 1: and alleged that he saw child pornography on Epstein's personal computer.
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Speaker 1: And he's not the only one who has said that, right?
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Speaker 1: We have heard that from multiple people about the child pornography.
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Speaker 1: and the lewd pictures of young children, and the artwork,
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Speaker 1: and just the whole entire weird-ass vibe that a normal
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Speaker 1: person would see, and feel, and be like, what in
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Speaker 1: the is going on here? That's why when all of
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Speaker 1: these people try and have these excuses of, I had
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Speaker 1: no idea what was going on. I really had no idea.
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Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't that weird. I never saw any
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Speaker 1: underage girls All the other shit wasn't weird enough for you, bro,
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Speaker 1: to make you question what in the F was going
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Speaker 1: on in this place? I mean, come on. In 2011,
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Speaker 1: Rodriguez was sentenced to 18 months in prison for having
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Speaker 1: tried to sell the book to an undercover agent after
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Speaker 1: failing to notify investigators about its existence. How about that, huh?
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Speaker 1: Rodriguez got more time in prison, remember, than Jeffrey Epstein
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Speaker 1: for trying to sell this book. It just shows you
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Speaker 1: how skewed everything is when it comes to this Jeffrey
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Speaker 1: Epstein case and the way prosecution has went about going
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Speaker 1: after these people historically, right? We've seen some changes lately
6:42
Speaker 1: after people have just had enough and demanded justice. But previously,
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Speaker 1: it was an absolute shitshow. How does Rodriguez... Get 18
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Speaker 1: more months. I mean, get 18 months when Epstein only
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Speaker 1: gets 13. It just shows you the Department of Just
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Speaker 1: Us and the failure of those who are part of
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Speaker 1: the institution. It just shows you how much their failure
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Speaker 1: affects everything. Their inability to effectively manage the Justice Department
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Speaker 1: has such long-ranging consequences. Rodriguez said in court that the
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Speaker 1: book was insurance against Epstein who wanted him to disappear.
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Speaker 1: Rodriguez died of mesothelioma shortly after serving his sentence. The
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Speaker 1: public first became aware of the book in 2015 when
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Speaker 1: the now defunct website Gawker published a version of Rodriguez's
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Speaker 1: copy revealing for the first time just how ludicrously connected
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Speaker 1: Epstein was to the people who run the world. And
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Speaker 1: that's not even hyperbole. right, by the author. That's not
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Speaker 1: even hyperbole. These are the people who run the world.
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Speaker 1: We've been through them a million times here. All of
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Speaker 1: the bankers, all of the power players in politics, all
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Speaker 1: of these people combined are the people that literally run
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Speaker 1: the world. They make the laws. They give out the loans.
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Speaker 1: They decide who is going to qualify for a house
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Speaker 1: or for a car, right? They're the ones. that are
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Speaker 1: in charge of all of that. These are the people
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Speaker 1: that are pulling all of the strings. These are the
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Speaker 1: people that are in charge. Gawker's file showed only names.
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Speaker 1: Attached phone numbers and emails were blacked out. Shortly before
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Speaker 1: Epstein's mysterious death in August 2019 in his cell at
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Speaker 1: the Manhattan Correctional Facility, an unredacted version of the book
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Speaker 1: popped up on some dark corners of the internet with
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Speaker 1: almost every phone number, email, and home address entirely visible.
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Speaker 1: And I got my hands on a copy. So again,
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Speaker 1: this is real investigative work, right? This is the sort
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Speaker 1: of work that investigators and journalists should be doing, especially
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Speaker 1: in a case like this, and we have not seen
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Speaker 1: enough of it. Like I've said from the beginning, I'm
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Speaker 1: not a journalist like this gentleman here, right? I'm certainly
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Speaker 1: not working for one of these outlets or anything like that.
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Speaker 1: But these guys who have these resources behind them, these
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Speaker 1: actual journalists, they have completely abandoned this story for the
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Speaker 1: most part. You've had very few real investigative journalists with
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Speaker 1: resources digging in. And it's pretty disgusting, honestly. To see
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Speaker 1: some of the garbage that they focus on and write about...
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Speaker 1: as opposed to some of the hard-hitting situations that really
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Speaker 1: affect all of our lives. It's pretty pathetic to see
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Speaker 1: what the 24 hour news cycle brings us on a
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Speaker 1: daily basis and then you have people like this over
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Speaker 1: here at Mother Jones who are doing great work and
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Speaker 1: you think he's going to be on any of these
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Speaker 1: shows you think Rachel Maddow is going to have him
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Speaker 1: on or Tucker Carlson or no I'm sure they won't
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Speaker 1: but they should Epstein's Little Black Book isn't little at
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Speaker 1: all it's gargantuan Its defining feature is its size and thoroughness,
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Speaker 1: and there are just as many boring numbers as exciting ones.
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Speaker 1: For every Jordanian princess, there are three reflexologists from Boca.
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Speaker 1: The listings are at times preposterously detailed, often containing additional
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Speaker 1: names and numbers for people's emergency contacts, their parents, their siblings,
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Speaker 1: their friends, even their children. all alongside hundreds of car phones,
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Speaker 1: yacht phones, guest houses, and private office lines. Does that
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Speaker 1: sound like somebody that you just ran into? If he
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Speaker 1: has your yacht phone number, your car phone number, your
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Speaker 1: house phone number, you know, I mean, really? That sounds
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Speaker 1: like somebody who's just an acquaintance, somebody you ran into
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Speaker 1: at the bar? I mean, come on, give me a break.
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Speaker 1: This is obviously somebody that all of these people who
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Speaker 1: had five, six, seven numbers in this book, they all
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Speaker 1: knew Jeffrey Epstein. And if they try and say any different,
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Speaker 1: they're lying. Some individuals have dozens of numbers and addresses listed,
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Speaker 1: while others just list just a single number and a
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Speaker 1: first name. Epstein collected people. And if you ever had
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Speaker 1: any interaction with him or Ghislaine Maxwell, his one-time girlfriend...
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Speaker 1: and co-conspirator, you more than likely ended up in this book.
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Speaker 1: And then several years later, well, you received a call
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Speaker 1: from me. I made close to 2,000 phone calls total.
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Speaker 1: I spoke to billionaires, CEOs, bankers, models, celebrities, scientists, a Kennedy,
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Speaker 1: and some of Epstein's closest friends and confidants. That's pretty crazy,
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Speaker 1: just cold calling all of these people. and having some
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Speaker 1: of them talk to you is even more batshit crazy.
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Speaker 1: I think it's just a very creative way to go
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Speaker 1: about it, and Leland should definitely get some kudos here.
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Speaker 1: It's a very creative way to go about your investigation, sir.
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Speaker 1: I sat on my couch and phoned up royalty, spoke
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Speaker 1: to ambassadors, irritated a senior advisor at Blackstone, quality work,
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Speaker 1: F Blackstone, and the rest of the party running around there,
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Speaker 1: and left squeaky voicemails for what must constitute a considerable
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Speaker 1: percentage of the world oligarchy. At times, the book felt
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Speaker 1: like a dark palantir giving me glimpses of dreadful, haunted
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Speaker 1: dimensions that my soft, gentle animal being was never supposed
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Speaker 1: to encounter. Yeah, look, man, when you start delving into
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Speaker 1: the world of Jeffrey Epstein and you start swimming around
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Speaker 1: in the muck where he resided, it is not a
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Speaker 1: comfortable place to be. It's a very dark and disgusting
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Speaker 1: place filled with some really devious, dangerous, sick, sick individuals.
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Speaker 1: So I get it. I know what you're talking about.
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Speaker 1: Seeing at close range the mundanity of Epstein and his
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Speaker 1: fellow elites, how simple and childish they could be, was
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Speaker 1: a sickening experience of its own. The worst call by
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Speaker 1: far was with a woman who told me she'd been
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Speaker 1: groped by Epstein. An incident she said she didn't report
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Speaker 1: at the time out of fear of retribution from Epstein.
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Speaker 1: I mean, how many times have we, you know, heard
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Speaker 1: that story, right? How many times have we heard that
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Speaker 1: there would be retribution if you talked or if you
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Speaker 1: snitched on Epstein or you told the authorities about what
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Speaker 1: was going on? And when he was around so many
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Speaker 1: powerful people, and he counted so many powerful people as
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Speaker 1: his friends and his allies, well, it's one of those
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Speaker 1: things where you believe him when he lays that threat, right?
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Speaker 1: I have been aggressively counseled to remind the readers of
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Speaker 1: Mother Jones that an appearance in the address book is
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Speaker 1: not evidence of any crime or of complicity in any
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Speaker 1: crime or of knowledge of any crime. Yeah, well, that's
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Speaker 1: for sure, right? No doubt about it. But still, the
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Speaker 1: question remains, why are you in the book? Most of
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Speaker 1: these people won't even answer that simple question, and that's
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Speaker 1: why it has become an issue. If you're going to
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Speaker 1: avoid it, well, this is something that's in the public
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Speaker 1: sphere now. People know about it. You can't just make
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Speaker 1: pretend that you're not in this book. You can't make
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Speaker 1: pretend that you didn't have a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein
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Speaker 1: in some capacity. You have to explain. You're public figures.
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Speaker 1: That's part of the deal. They weren't all elites, thankfully.
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Speaker 1: Sometimes I would have delightful conversations with normal people who
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Speaker 1: had cleaned a car or given Epstein a facial and
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Speaker 1: only shared my distaste for Epstein and his circle. Yeah, look, again,
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Speaker 1: there are definitely going to be a lot of people
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Speaker 1: like that. When you're a rich billionaire or a hundred
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Speaker 1: millionaire or whatever you want to call them, you're around
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Speaker 1: a lot of people as far as employees, people that
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Speaker 1: are going to work for you and people that might
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Speaker 1: not have an intimate relationship with you, meaning people that
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Speaker 1: aren't at the mansions, people that aren't involved in procuring
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Speaker 1: girls for you. You know, there's going to be plumbers, etc., etc., right?
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Speaker 1: Sometimes I would call a number that had changed hands
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Speaker 1: at some point since the book was compiled, and instead
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Speaker 1: of reaching the governor or fashion designer I was looking for,
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Speaker 1: I would end up with just a normal bloke on
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Speaker 1: the line, some poor recipient of a torrent of wrong
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Speaker 1: number phone calls of the worst variety imaginable. Their fate
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Speaker 1: was a twisted inversion of my own. The oligarchy wouldn't
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Speaker 1: stop calling them. That's crazy. I can't even imagine. Imagine
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Speaker 1: having one of these phone numbers of one of these
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Speaker 1: people who are in this book and, you know, they
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Speaker 1: have a new number or whatever and you get the
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Speaker 1: phone number in the rotation. How horrible would that be?
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Speaker 1: Some highlights and lowlights from my tour of Jeffrey Epstein's
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Speaker 1: Little Black Book. Remember, an appearance in the address book
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Speaker 1: is not evidence of any crime or of complicity in
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Speaker 1: any crime or of knowledge of any crime. Yeah, but
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Speaker 1: there's still a lot of questions that need to be asked.
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Speaker 1: Doug Band, longtime advisor to Bill Clinton. Called the number
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Speaker 1: listed as his home number, which wound up being his
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Speaker 1: childhood home. Spoke to his dad for five minutes. Seemed
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Speaker 1: like a decent guy. Doug hasn't lived here for 30 years.
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Speaker 1: All right, take care, man. So he called Doug Band,
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Speaker 1: and it was the guy's home number, which was where
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Speaker 1: the dude grew up. You imagine? Jeffrey Epstein has your
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Speaker 1: parent's home number in his black book? What in the
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Speaker 1: ever-living F? Why would he have that phone number? So
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Speaker 1: many questions. Jimmy Cain, a former CEO of Bear Stearns.
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Speaker 1: Wife answered the phone. When asked about Epstein and Cain's relationship,
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Speaker 1: she said, yes, they were friends, but we have no comment.
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Speaker 1: Edward Razik, former chief marketing officer for L Brands. I
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Speaker 1: can't talk about any of that. Our business has requested
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Speaker 1: no interviews. And remember, Razik was also on the line
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Speaker 1: by fostering a bad work environment for the girls at
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Speaker 1: Victoria's Secret. Those were the allegations of sexual harassment, et cetera,
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Speaker 1: et cetera. Rupert Murdoch, executive chairman of News Corp. His
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Speaker 1: assistant gave me Hope Hicks' cell phone number after I
17:59
Speaker 1: asked for it. Hicks has not returned any of my calls. Well,
18:02
Speaker 1: that's a shock, huh? I'm really shocked that Hope Hicks
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Speaker 1: hasn't returned any calls from you. I mean, geez, these people,
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Speaker 1: all of these people are just unbelievable, folks. I honestly
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Speaker 1: don't even know what to say about half of them.
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Speaker 1: Princess Furial, Jordanian philanthropist, called her home number. Dorman answered,
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Speaker 1: I asked for a missed free-all, completely butchering the pronunciation.
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Speaker 1: Dorman was confused, so I said princess, and he immediately
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Speaker 1: told me where she was and who she was with.
18:36
Speaker 1: Peter Roth, chairman and CEO of Warner Brothers. Oh, that's
18:40
Speaker 1: not a shock, huh? I wonder how often Mr. Roth
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Speaker 1: was hanging out with old Harvey Weinstein. Listed cell number
18:49
Speaker 1: went to his son's phone. Yeah, I don't really want
18:51
Speaker 1: to talk about any of this, his son said. I
18:53
Speaker 1: don't want to be anywhere near this whole Jeffrey Epstein thing.
18:57
Speaker 1: And that's what it's all about, right? They don't want
18:59
Speaker 1: to be near it. Even if they had a relationship
19:00
Speaker 1: with Epstein, they don't want to be near it, folks.
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Speaker 1: They'd rather back away. They'd rather just, you know, like
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Speaker 1: I always say, the marathon approach. And now, as it's
19:09
Speaker 1: becoming more serious, it's turning into a sprint. But these
19:14
Speaker 1: people who don't want to talk about it, come on now. Now,
19:17
Speaker 1: I understand here, this went to his kid's son, right?
19:21
Speaker 1: I mean, to his son's phone. So I don't expect
19:24
Speaker 1: his son to answer for his father. But some of
19:26
Speaker 1: these other people that, you know, don't want to talk
19:29
Speaker 1: about it and they want to just avoid it, that's
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Speaker 1: not going to occur. The cat is now out of
19:34
Speaker 1: the bag. Jamie Grant. Global Chairman of Investment Banking, JP Morgan.
19:41
Speaker 1: I wonder, how many times has Mr. Grant been involved
19:45
Speaker 1: with some of the stuff we talk about in the
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Speaker 1: FinCEN files? I'm guessing a lot. As you all know,
19:51
Speaker 1: I think most of these bankers at this level, the
19:54
Speaker 1: Jamie Grant level bankers, are up to no good. So
19:57
Speaker 1: it would not shock me one bit if Mr. Grant
20:00
Speaker 1: wasn't involved in all of that sort of nonsense as well.
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Speaker 1: Listed cell number also went to his son, who told
20:09
Speaker 1: me his dad didn't know Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell. It's
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Speaker 1: sort of like the New York City business world. I
20:15
Speaker 1: would say Jeffrey Epstein is like a couple people removed
20:18
Speaker 1: from my dad. Oh, so now we're doing the seven
20:21
Speaker 1: degrees of separation of Kevin Bacon, huh? Yeah, look, my
20:25
Speaker 1: dad's friend's friend's uncle's cousin knows Jeffrey Epstein. That's why
20:29
Speaker 1: my dad was in the book. Uh, what? Robert Meester,
20:35
Speaker 1: former chairman of Aon Insurance and the man who introduced
20:38
Speaker 1: Epstein to Leslie Wexner. He's a sicko. Bye-bye. So that's
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Speaker 1: what Robert Meester said, huh? Oh, okay. That was very informative.
20:46
Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, sir. Kerry Kennedy, president of RFK Human Rights.
20:52
Speaker 1: Listed as an emergency contact for Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
20:56
Speaker 1: and Mary Kennedy and seemed very taken aback that I
20:59
Speaker 1: had forgotten Bobby was dead. I asked where he was. Yikes. Yikes, yikes, yikes.
21:05
Speaker 1: I then asked her about Mary Kennedy, who I learned
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Speaker 1: is also dead. Big yikes all around on this one.
21:12
Speaker 1: She told me she used to sell photographs to Mother
21:14
Speaker 1: Jones in her younger days. Well, okay. That was informative.
21:20
Speaker 1: And I'm sure that he had a bunch of phone
21:22
Speaker 1: calls like that, right? Calling people and they're like, what
21:25
Speaker 1: is this even about? And then it probably veered off
21:28
Speaker 1: into other directions when he realized that it was either
21:31
Speaker 1: a number of somebody who was no longer related to
21:35
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, meaning nobody that has a relationship with him
21:38
Speaker 1: or whatever have you. It would veer off into a
21:42
Speaker 1: different direction. Meryl Tish, former chancellor of the New York
21:47
Speaker 1: State Board of Regents and heir to the Lowe's Corporation. Me, hey,
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Speaker 1: I'm doing a story on Jeffrey Epstein. I was wondering
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Speaker 1: if you ever met the guy or interacted with him. Tish.
21:59
Speaker 1: I don't know who you are. How did you get
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Speaker 1: my number? Me. Well, I got it from Epstein's contact book. Tish.
22:07
Speaker 1: From who? Me. Jeffrey Epstein's contact book. Tish. No. This
22:13
Speaker 1: is ridiculous. Who are you? What's your name? Me. My
22:18
Speaker 1: name's Leland. I'm doing a story for a magazine. Tish. Oh. My. God.
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Speaker 1: You have to be kidding me. No, I can't help
22:27
Speaker 1: you out. Thank God. I mean, really? Me? Me? Meryl
22:32
Speaker 1: and Jimmy were listed with an address and this number.
22:35
Speaker 1: You're Tish, right? With a C. There's a David Tish
22:38
Speaker 1: listed as well. Don't know if you're related? Tish. Huh. Goodbye. Oh, man.
22:45
Speaker 1: That's a good one there. That lady seemed to be
22:48
Speaker 1: mortified that she was... involved with Jeffrey Epstein or that
22:54
Speaker 1: her name was found in that black book. I wonder
22:58
Speaker 1: what her voice sounded like on the conversation, not just
23:00
Speaker 1: reading the words, but I wonder what she sounded like.
23:05
Speaker 1: Joel Pashkal, board member of the Palm Beach Police and
23:08
Speaker 1: Fire Foundation. You're really pathetic, you know that? Yeah, man,
23:13
Speaker 1: people keep calling me up, asking for Muffy, and I'm like,
23:16
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just always polite, man. That's Elijah Hutch.
23:21
Speaker 1: 22-year-old aspiring music producer who lives in Flatbush in Brooklyn.
23:26
Speaker 1: He has the old cell number for Muffy Potter, wife
23:30
Speaker 1: of world-famous plastic surgeon Cheryl Astin, and the fourth greatest
23:35
Speaker 1: socialite in history, according to Town & Country magazine. The
23:39
Speaker 1: fact that we have a list of the quote-unquote greatest
23:42
Speaker 1: socialites in history, what sort of Moronic nonsense is that.
23:47
Speaker 1: They get a list. Socialites get a list of who
23:50
Speaker 1: the greatest socialites in history are. I have an idea.
23:53
Speaker 1: How about you're all idiots, okay? The whole lot of
23:57
Speaker 1: you are idiots. They'll text me about some dinner I
24:07
Speaker 1: went to, or how it was great seeing me with so-and-so,
24:10
Speaker 1: and I'm always just respectful, man, and just let them know,
24:13
Speaker 1: hey man, I think Muffy gave you the wrong number.
24:16
Speaker 1: Eli had no idea who Muffy was, or Epstein for
24:19
Speaker 1: that matter, and I almost didn't want to explain it
24:22
Speaker 1: to him, but I did. The child sex ring, the princes,
24:26
Speaker 1: the presidents, the suicide, the black book, everything. Out of
24:30
Speaker 1: all the people I spoke to, Eli had by far
24:33
Speaker 1: the most caught Cogent analysis of the situation. Damn, man,
24:39
Speaker 1: this is all sounding so strange. Find Eli Hutch on
24:43
Speaker 1: SoundCloud here. Let the haunting lyrics of Go Away give
24:46
Speaker 1: you strength as they did me. Awake at my desk
24:50
Speaker 1: at 4 a.m. so I could call every pedophile in London.
24:54
Speaker 1: You're gonna need more coffee, bro. Look, in fact, I
24:58
Speaker 1: should send you a six-pack of bangs because you're going
25:00
Speaker 1: to need those, I think. You're going to need the
25:02
Speaker 1: energy drinks. Step it up. You're going to need more.
25:05
Speaker 1: To call every pedophile in London is going to take
25:07
Speaker 1: you quite some time, my friend. What a world. Any
25:12
Speaker 1: phone can reach any other. It's almost unbelievable what a
25:15
Speaker 1: string of 7 to 12 numbers can get you. All
25:19
Speaker 1: I did for weeks... was sit on my couch, feel
25:22
Speaker 1: like dog shit, flip through this haunted book, and call
25:25
Speaker 1: people up one by one in between bouts of stress diarrhea.
25:29
Speaker 1: That's it. You just type the numbers in, and sometimes
25:32
Speaker 1: you get a ring. And sometimes, a person picks up. Remember,
25:37
Speaker 1: you know what I always say about being stuck in
25:39
Speaker 1: the house for six months, being locked down and shit?
25:43
Speaker 1: You really think that this guy would have went through
25:45
Speaker 1: this if he wasn't locked in his house? Probably not.
25:48
Speaker 1: So again, the quarantine has created some good content and
25:52
Speaker 1: it's really made people become pretty damn creative. The fuzz, maybe.
25:59
Speaker 1: I made the first call from a coffee shop in
26:01
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, Koreatown, the day after Epstein's suspicious suicide in
26:05
Speaker 1: his cell at Manhattan's Metropolitan Correctional Center while awaiting trial,
26:10
Speaker 1: a convenient turn of events for the rich and famous
26:12
Speaker 1: people who would now avoid exposure in court. Well, all right,
26:17
Speaker 1: guess he started before the quarantine. So this guy actually
26:21
Speaker 1: has a lot of pizzazz, right? That's a lot of focus. 2,000
26:25
Speaker 1: phone calls, calling all of these people and asking them,
26:29
Speaker 1: probably going through the same questions with all of them,
26:32
Speaker 1: talk about repetitive. And you know what? It turned into
26:36
Speaker 1: a fantastic story and a lot of work, right? The
26:41
Speaker 1: day after Epstein committed suicide, he made the first phone call.
26:45
Speaker 1: So He's been working on this for a lot longer
26:47
Speaker 1: than the quarantine, so props. The death was a national scandal.
26:55
Speaker 1: Followers of the Epstein case, I'm including myself here, reacted
26:59
Speaker 1: to his death with a burst of paranoia and anger.
27:03
Speaker 1: Conspiracizing was rampant. I had come across a screenshot of
27:07
Speaker 1: an unredacted section of the Black Book and determined to
27:10
Speaker 1: track down its source. I decided to check the most
27:13
Speaker 1: awful place on the internet, A-chan, where I was quickly
27:17
Speaker 1: rewarded for my intuition, an unredacted PDF of the entire
27:21
Speaker 1: book had been posted just a few hours earlier. About
27:26
Speaker 1: 12 seconds later, I was dialing Melania Trump's personal cell
27:30
Speaker 1: phone voicemail. Then I sent a text to David Copperfield. David,
27:35
Speaker 1: we need to talk. It's about Jeffrey. I love it.
27:39
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. Imagine sending that sort
27:42
Speaker 1: of text message to David Copperfield. Copperfield's reaction, he must
27:45
Speaker 1: have been like, who the, who the, who is this?
27:47
Speaker 1: What do you mean we need to talk about Jeffrey?
27:50
Speaker 1: Who in the hell is this? God, to be a
27:53
Speaker 1: roach in the rushes when these idiots got these, these
27:56
Speaker 1: phone calls or these text messages, it must have been,
28:00
Speaker 1: they must have been caught so off guard. I tried
28:04
Speaker 1: a couple more people, none of whom picked up. whereupon
28:07
Speaker 1: I was interrupted by a call from a restricted number.
28:10
Speaker 1: The guy on the line said he was with the FBI.
28:13
Speaker 1: He said there were reports of fraudulent phone calls being
28:16
Speaker 1: made on this line, which I immediately understood as bullshit.
28:20
Speaker 1: I wasn't committing any phone crime or trying to trick
28:23
Speaker 1: someone into doing so. I don't know about fraudulent, but
28:26
Speaker 1: I have a feeling I know what you're talking about.
28:29
Speaker 1: I said undoubtedly sounding cool, relaxed, and unbothered. He then said,
28:34
Speaker 1: I have a real call coming in. to what sounded
28:37
Speaker 1: like someone else in the room, his voice quiet in
28:39
Speaker 1: the way of someone who has just pulled the phone
28:41
Speaker 1: off of his face to look at it. He hung
28:44
Speaker 1: up and never called again, as far as I know.
28:48
Speaker 1: Whether the guy was FBI or private security goon posing
28:51
Speaker 1: as a fed, the call was an important development. It
28:55
Speaker 1: told me that the book I was dealing with and
28:57
Speaker 1: the numbers it contained were genuine. Every cell phone number,
29:01
Speaker 1: every yacht line, every private office number, they were all real.
29:06
Speaker 1: and every one of them was about to get a
29:08
Speaker 1: call from me. The art collecting scientist, you're so full
29:13
Speaker 1: of shit. The next day I began calling en masse.
29:17
Speaker 1: By now, in an effort to spare my girlfriend any
29:20
Speaker 1: psychic harm, I was operating from the Los Angeles Central Library,
29:24
Speaker 1: first from a foyer, my voice bouncing off the high
29:27
Speaker 1: marble ceilings with embarrassing levels of clarity and volume, and
29:31
Speaker 1: then from a corner of the library's art gallery... deftly
29:34
Speaker 1: maneuvering around any guests when necessary. That day had been terrible,
29:39
Speaker 1: full of wrong and disconnected numbers, and I was close
29:42
Speaker 1: to quitting the entire project out of both fear and
29:45
Speaker 1: hopelessness when I placed what was maybe my 50th phone
29:49
Speaker 1: call to Stuart Pavar, who answered the phone and told
29:53
Speaker 1: me Jeffrey Epstein was my best pal for decades. So
29:57
Speaker 1: to go back to... what he was talking about here
30:00
Speaker 1: with the FBI supposedly calling him. I don't doubt it, right?
30:04
Speaker 1: We heard what happened with Tara Palmieri in the Broken
30:08
Speaker 1: podcast about how the FBI talked to, it slips my
30:15
Speaker 1: mind right now, one of the butlers or whoever the
30:19
Speaker 1: gentleman was that they talked to on Broken, Juan Alessi.
30:23
Speaker 1: So how the FBI had talked to him previously and
30:26
Speaker 1: now how the FBI or security goons called this guy
30:31
Speaker 1: and tried to tell him that he was making fraudulent
30:33
Speaker 1: phone calls. And that's just the way they conduct themselves, right?
30:37
Speaker 1: They love to try and intimidate. They love to try
30:40
Speaker 1: and put fear into people. But you know what? Sometimes
30:45
Speaker 1: you just have to put that to the side when
30:48
Speaker 1: you're working on a story as a It's just, when
30:55
Speaker 1: you cover stories like this, there's bound to be some
30:58
Speaker 1: sketchy moments. Pavar, 90 years old, is an art collector, scientist,
31:05
Speaker 1: and a founder alongside Andy Warhol of the New York
31:10
Speaker 1: Academy of Art. How beautiful is that, huh? We all
31:12
Speaker 1: know about the New York Academy of Art and Eileen
31:15
Speaker 1: Guggenheim and all of the nonsensical BS that occurred there,
31:19
Speaker 1: don't we? He ended up speaking with me for over
31:23
Speaker 1: an hour about his very, very sick friend in a
31:25
Speaker 1: conversation we wound up publishing in its entirety. Stuart told
31:30
Speaker 1: me over and over again that Epstein suffered from satiricis,
31:35
Speaker 1: which he described as the male version of nymphomania, and
31:39
Speaker 1: that he used his money and power to make an
31:41
Speaker 1: industry out of having sex with underage girls. Sounds to
31:45
Speaker 1: me like Stuart Pivar is making this stuff up or
31:49
Speaker 1: going on, uh, you know, what, what he thinks maybe,
31:53
Speaker 1: because I don't think that, uh, Epstein was, you know,
31:58
Speaker 1: making an industry out of it. I think there was a, no,
32:03
Speaker 1: you know what? Maybe, maybe that is the right way
32:05
Speaker 1: to say it. Making an industry out of it. Yeah.
32:07
Speaker 1: All right. I think we could go with that. This
32:10
Speaker 1: apparently entailed Epstein having sex with three girls a day
32:13
Speaker 1: and hundreds and hundreds in total. He said he never
32:17
Speaker 1: knew Epstein was having sex with children until Maria Farmer,
32:20
Speaker 1: a student at the academy and an acquaintance of Pavar,
32:24
Speaker 1: had told him she had been assaulted and held hostage
32:26
Speaker 1: by Epstein. He also claimed that Epstein had never invited
32:30
Speaker 1: him to what he called the Isle of Babes, a
32:33
Speaker 1: reference to Epstein's private island where much of the child
32:36
Speaker 1: sex trafficking allegedly occurred. Yeah, it was an elite company, right?
32:43
Speaker 1: Only certain people... That Jeffrey Epstein was bringing to that island...
32:47
Speaker 1: Only some very select folks... Were invited to that island...
32:51
Speaker 1: People that Epstein knew... Had the same proclivities as him...
32:55
Speaker 1: Would be my guess... Pavar said he was in mourning
33:00
Speaker 1: for Epstein... Who had died just two days before we spoke...
33:04
Speaker 1: By turns morose... Defeated and indignant... Veering between florid ruminations...
33:09
Speaker 1: About teenage sexuality... And bitter denunciations... Of me and my
33:13
Speaker 1: life choices... He unloaded his thoughts and feelings about Maxwell
33:18
Speaker 1: and Leslie Wexner, Epstein's billionaire patron, as well as about
33:23
Speaker 1: nature of perversion, criminality, perhaps even life itself. On pathology,
33:30
Speaker 1: what's a pervert? There are all kinds of behavioristic aberrations,
33:34
Speaker 1: obviously including mass murderers. You don't call mass murderers perverts,
33:39
Speaker 1: do you? Uh, what? No, we call them mass murderers
33:42
Speaker 1: because they're killing people. Okay, perverts are people that do
33:46
Speaker 1: the things that your best friend Jeffrey Epstein did. Really?
33:50
Speaker 1: I was in mourning for Jeffrey Epstein? Sort of sick
33:55
Speaker 1: bastards in mourning for Jeffrey Epstein. On nature and civilization,
34:00
Speaker 1: and so all kinds of rules get made, and nature
34:03
Speaker 1: is not allowed to take its course on account of civilization.
34:07
Speaker 1: Jeffrey broke those rules big time, but what he was
34:09
Speaker 1: pursuing was kind of, I suppose, sexual urges which would
34:13
Speaker 1: Why am I telling you this stuff? Leave me alone.
34:17
Speaker 1: Go away. So this 90-year-old man goes on this rant, right?
34:21
Speaker 1: Starts prattling all this shit off to the author here.
34:26
Speaker 1: And then at the end, decides, why am I telling
34:29
Speaker 1: you all of this? Leave me alone. Go away. I
34:31
Speaker 1: wonder if he ended it by, get off of my lawn.
34:36
Speaker 1: On Epstein accuser Virginia Roberts and Epstein's child sex ring,
34:40
Speaker 1: Anyone who did one thing, let us say to some
34:42
Speaker 1: 16-year-old trollop who would come to his house time after
34:46
Speaker 1: time after time and then afterwards bitch about it, why,
34:50
Speaker 1: no one would pay attention. Except Jeffrey made an industry
34:53
Speaker 1: out of it. So this Stuart Pavard guy is obviously
34:57
Speaker 1: another sick bastard, right? Another one of these, you know,
35:01
Speaker 1: art world dealer sick dudes. We've talked about him previously
35:07
Speaker 1: when we were talking about the Academy. And just when
35:11
Speaker 1: you read the things that they would say about Jeffrey Epstein,
35:15
Speaker 1: or how they supported Jeffrey Epstein, or how they called
35:18
Speaker 1: one of these girls a trollop, or you called Virginia
35:21
Speaker 1: a trollop. It's just, you know, the nature of these
35:25
Speaker 1: sick bastards, the nature of these fellow travelers. On nature
35:31
Speaker 1: and civilization continued, the business of sexual attraction, the attraction
35:36
Speaker 1: of males and females in its natural state, is not
35:39
Speaker 1: the same as what happens when civilization puts up all
35:42
Speaker 1: kinds of rules. Because sexual attraction starts at a very,
35:45
Speaker 1: very young age. When I was 14, I had to
35:48
Speaker 1: deal with a girl who was only 13. And somehow,
35:52
Speaker 1: I remember it was at summer camp. And I stopped
35:54
Speaker 1: having to do with her because of the tremendous age gap.
35:59
Speaker 1: On me and my life choices, you're so full of
36:01
Speaker 1: shit it's terrible. You should not be writing about this.
36:04
Speaker 1: You're not qualified. This guy's obviously suffering from some form
36:09
Speaker 1: of dementia or something, Mr. Pavar. And sexual attraction starts
36:15
Speaker 1: at a very, very young age. So what does a
36:18
Speaker 1: 13-year-old being attracted to a 14-year-old have to do with
36:22
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein raping little girls? On himself and his life choices,
36:30
Speaker 1: why did I talk to you? I'm a dead fish,
36:32
Speaker 1: and you're going to ruin me. Luckily, I don't know
36:34
Speaker 1: anybody who reads the Mother Jones anymore. I can't believe
36:38
Speaker 1: it still existed. This guy's throwing all kinds of smoke
36:41
Speaker 1: at the author, huh? Firing. You got to have some
36:45
Speaker 1: set of balls to call Jeffrey Epstein your best friend
36:48
Speaker 1: and then try to bring the smoke to this author.
36:53
Speaker 1: On my having asked him to speak into yapping pointlessly...
36:59
Speaker 1: You asked me to, so to speak, into yapping pointlessly
37:02
Speaker 1: because I have nothing else to do for the moment
37:05
Speaker 1: and I'm relying on you to understand what I say.
37:08
Speaker 1: If you misquote me or anything like that, I will
37:10
Speaker 1: sue your magazine until the end of the earth. Tell
37:13
Speaker 1: me your name again so I can start writing a
37:15
Speaker 1: complaint to sue you. Oh, yeah, he'll probably call Alan Dershowitz.
37:20
Speaker 1: Right away, he's calling Mr. Underpants himself. Uh, Alan, I
37:25
Speaker 1: gotta sue Mother Jones. Can you help me out? That's
37:30
Speaker 1: the sort of people we're dealing with here. This guy
37:33
Speaker 1: is calling Jeffrey Epstein his best friend is saying he's
37:35
Speaker 1: going to sue a journalist for calling him and asking
37:39
Speaker 1: about some context of their relationship. You don't have that
37:45
Speaker 1: ability anymore. Okay? That's done. Somewhere in all this, Pavar
37:53
Speaker 1: managed to tell me the entire backstory of his decades
37:56
Speaker 1: friendship with Epstein. Pavar had met Epstein through the New
38:00
Speaker 1: York Academy of Art, where Epstein was a board member.
38:03
Speaker 1: It was at an NYAA function where he met a
38:07
Speaker 1: young Maria Farmer, who along with her younger sister would
38:10
Speaker 1: become one of Epstein's earliest accusers. Farmer, a painter, was
38:15
Speaker 1: at the Wexner mansion at Epstein's invitation for what she
38:19
Speaker 1: believed was an art residency when she alleges Epstein and
38:23
Speaker 1: Maxwell sexually assaulted her and held her hostage for 12
38:26
Speaker 1: hours with the aid of Wexner's massive security team. After
38:31
Speaker 1: the ordeal, Farmer soon learned that her younger sister had
38:35
Speaker 1: also been assaulted by Epstein and Maxwell during a similar
38:39
Speaker 1: artist residency. Pavar told me he ran into Farmer at
38:42
Speaker 1: a flea market where she told him this bizarre story,
38:45
Speaker 1: and I realized, oh my God, something was happening after
38:48
Speaker 1: years and years, which he, Epstein, didn't tell me. So
38:52
Speaker 1: Maria not only told the FBI, she told Pavar here,
38:56
Speaker 1: and he just went on record saying that. So for
39:01
Speaker 1: all the detractors who like to run their fat, stupid,
39:04
Speaker 1: idiot mouths, well, there you go, another witness, huh? Another
39:08
Speaker 1: person to corroborate it. My hour-long conversation with Pavar was
39:14
Speaker 1: genuinely illuminating. Pavar spoke about Epstein in the exact way
39:19
Speaker 1: many of his friends and colleagues would speak about him
39:21
Speaker 1: to me in the coming weeks. Reverence mixed with an
39:25
Speaker 1: acknowledgement of Epstein's essential disingenuousness. much has been made in
39:31
Speaker 1: the press of Epstein's intelligence mostly due to his vast
39:35
Speaker 1: wealth the glowing adoration of his elite peers and the
39:39
Speaker 1: long roster of high profile scientists and thinkers with whom
39:44
Speaker 1: he surrounded himself Pavar was the first person to peel
39:47
Speaker 1: back the curtain of Epstein's reputation with intimate, first-hand knowledge
39:52
Speaker 1: of the man himself and to counter the prevailing media
39:56
Speaker 1: narrative at the time. Pavar had attended a few of
40:00
Speaker 1: the now widely publicized intellectual summits at Epstein's house in
40:04
Speaker 1: New York. And we've talked about all of those and
40:07
Speaker 1: the power brokers that they brought in. You know, the
40:10
Speaker 1: Edge Conference and John Brockman and... and all of the
40:14
Speaker 1: power players that were brought into Epstein's orbit for these
40:17
Speaker 1: sorts of conferences. Epstein hosted dinner parties for world-famous scientists
40:27
Speaker 1: and thinkers from around the globe. People like Steven Pinker,
40:31
Speaker 1: Stephen Jay Gould, Martin Nowak, Lawrence Krauss, and Marvin Minsky.
40:36
Speaker 1: Jeffrey didn't know anything about science, Pavar said. He would say, oh,
40:40
Speaker 1: what is gravity? which of course is an unanswerable thing
40:44
Speaker 1: to present at a dinner to a bunch of scientists.
40:47
Speaker 1: And because he was Jeffrey, why, they would, and as
40:50
Speaker 1: the founder of the feast, they would listen to him
40:52
Speaker 1: and try to give answers. He was attempting, somehow, in
40:56
Speaker 1: his ignorant and scientifically naive state, to do something scientifically important.
41:01
Speaker 1: He had no compunctions about inviting people, and since he
41:04
Speaker 1: had money, they would listen. Yeah, I think it was
41:08
Speaker 1: more about the more than just the money, though, too, right?
41:11
Speaker 1: He was also offering them other things like the girls
41:15
Speaker 1: that he was sex trafficking. And we've talked at length
41:18
Speaker 1: about these nerdy ass scientists. You know that they weren't
41:21
Speaker 1: running around with the hot girls when they were growing
41:24
Speaker 1: up or even when they were in college. Just take
41:26
Speaker 1: a look at people like Jeff Bezos even and Elon
41:30
Speaker 1: Musk before they got all their money and all the
41:32
Speaker 1: work done on themselves. You really think they were running
41:34
Speaker 1: around with, you know, hot girls? Hell no, and these
41:37
Speaker 1: scientists certainly aren't. So when Jeffrey Epstein would have that
41:41
Speaker 1: island available and he'd have all these traffic girls, that
41:44
Speaker 1: would just be the icing on top of the cake, right?
41:51
Speaker 1: Epstein used his money and influence to brand himself as
41:54
Speaker 1: an avant-garde intellect, a sparkling autocrat dedicated to the pursuit
42:01
Speaker 1: of knowledge on the far-out edge of human perception. In
42:05
Speaker 1: large part, it worked extraordinarily well. You could build mountains
42:10
Speaker 1: out of the bizarre, nebulous claims of esoteric knowledge ascribed
42:14
Speaker 1: to Epstein. He was good at puzzles and finding things out.
42:18
Speaker 1: He could look at an organization and see what was wrong,
42:21
Speaker 1: one friend told me. Wexner, when asked by Vanity Fair
42:25
Speaker 1: about his relationship with Epstein, said that he was good
42:27
Speaker 1: at seeing patterns in politics and financial markets. Epstein's mind
42:32
Speaker 1: goes through a cross-section of descriptions, Joe Pagano, a longtime
42:36
Speaker 1: friend of Epstein, had said. He can go from mathematics
42:39
Speaker 1: to psychology to biology. He takes the smallest amount of
42:43
Speaker 1: information and gets the correct answer in the shortest period
42:46
Speaker 1: of time. That's my definition of IQ. Epstein's attempts to
42:51
Speaker 1: portray himself as a galaxy brain genius was surely helped
42:54
Speaker 1: along by his vast fortune. As I would find, the
42:58
Speaker 1: myth of his genius and the fortune were mutually reinforcing notions.
43:04
Speaker 1: His brilliance went largely unquestioned. Because how else could he
43:08
Speaker 1: be so rich? His wealth wasn't so mysterious once he
43:11
Speaker 1: understood just how brilliant he was. Yeah, sorry, I never
43:16
Speaker 1: thought Jeffrey Epstein was brilliant from anything we've read. And
43:19
Speaker 1: from the stuff I've heard from people who knew him,
43:22
Speaker 1: it was all a facade, right? It was all fakery.
43:26
Speaker 1: He had some ability in the stock market maybe to
43:29
Speaker 1: move some numbers and shit. And he had a good
43:33
Speaker 1: feel for money laundering. But as far as legally, he
43:37
Speaker 1: was nothing to write home about. He was no Wall
43:39
Speaker 1: Street powerhouse. He was no big shot. He wasn't anything
43:44
Speaker 1: like that. But Pavard didn't buy it. At least not entirely.
43:51
Speaker 1: He still called his old friend a very, very brilliant
43:54
Speaker 1: guy and said Epstein had a very low, how should
43:57
Speaker 1: I say, charming way of expressing himself. But Pavar also
44:02
Speaker 1: acknowledged that Epstein was a bullshitter. He couldn't concentrate on
44:06
Speaker 1: a subject for more than two minutes before having to
44:08
Speaker 1: change the subject. because he didn't know what anyone was
44:11
Speaker 1: talking about and would blurt out the dumbest things, Pavar said.
44:15
Speaker 1: In particular, Epstein had an affinity for posing pseudo-deep questions like,
44:20
Speaker 1: what is up and what is down, at the scientific
44:24
Speaker 1: summits he hosted on his private island. Doesn't shock me
44:27
Speaker 1: one bit, honestly. A pseudo-intellectual like Jeffrey Epstein is definitely
44:33
Speaker 1: going to ask questions like that, right? Trying to act
44:36
Speaker 1: like he knows what he's talking about. or floss like
44:39
Speaker 1: he's some sort of, you know, intelligent guy. And these
44:43
Speaker 1: scientists were all probably rolling their eyes in the back,
44:46
Speaker 1: you know, in their heads, in their minds, I mean. Meanwhile,
44:51
Speaker 1: acting like they care what this guy had to say
44:53
Speaker 1: because A, the money, and B, all of the others
44:56
Speaker 1: that came with it. The act would wear thin eventually,
45:00
Speaker 1: Pavar recalled. While everybody was watching, we began to realize
45:04
Speaker 1: he didn't know what he was talking about. Then, after
45:07
Speaker 1: a couple of minutes, Jeffrey had no attention span whatsoever.
45:11
Speaker 1: He would interrupt the conversation and change it and say
45:14
Speaker 1: things like, what does that got to do with pussy? Yeah,
45:18
Speaker 1: that sounds about right. That most definitely sounds about right, folks.
45:23
Speaker 1: And we know that Stuart Pavard was a friend of
45:26
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein's, and they probably were pretty close. It wouldn't
45:29
Speaker 1: shock me one bit, considering how close Epstein was to
45:32
Speaker 1: the Academy, sitting on the board, all the money he donated, etc., etc.
45:38
Speaker 1: So that is a tale that definitely rings true with me,
45:44
Speaker 1: the conversation Pavar had with the author here and what
45:48
Speaker 1: they talked about, because he most definitely had some intimate
45:51
Speaker 1: knowledge of Epstein, and him and Epstein most definitely were
45:56
Speaker 1: pretty good friends. Now, I'm not too sure that Pavar
46:00
Speaker 1: was involved in the actual you know, trafficking part of anything,
46:05
Speaker 1: but he certainly was rubbing elbows with Jeffrey Epstein more
46:09
Speaker 1: than just an acquaintance. And he, I don't care what
46:12
Speaker 1: he says. He most definitely saw some weird shit. And
46:16
Speaker 1: even if he didn't see anything weird, Maria told him
46:19
Speaker 1: what was going on and he still stayed friends with
46:22
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein. So Stuart Pavar is another one that, you know,
46:28
Speaker 1: it's good that he's talking, right? And he's talking about,
46:30
Speaker 1: you know, his relationship with Epstein, etc., etc., but he's
46:35
Speaker 1: not going to be able to pull the wool over
46:37
Speaker 1: anyone's eyes and act like he didn't see anything weird
46:41
Speaker 1: at Epstein's house. If you're over there and you're at
46:44
Speaker 1: his conferences and stuff, you saw a few weird things. Now,
46:48
Speaker 1: do you want to acknowledge that or not? Well, that's
46:52
Speaker 1: a different question, and that's probably where we are with Mr. Pavar, right?
46:56
Speaker 1: He is just... he, you know, in his mind, he has,
47:03
Speaker 1: it's normalized. That's the normal behavior for these people. So
47:07
Speaker 1: when Jeffrey Epstein has all this weird ass art and
47:10
Speaker 1: painting and shit on his walls, maybe this guy says
47:12
Speaker 1: to himself, yeah, yeah, you know, typical, just the way
47:15
Speaker 1: we roll in polite society. So that's going to end
47:21
Speaker 1: part one of this very lengthy article. And part two,