Latest / Fit for Hiking / Ep. 52 Solo Backpacking, Work-Outdoorsy Life Balance & Getting Strong For Adventures w/ Emily Zarnow @hikeology
Transcript
- Hi, my name is Brady and I'm a longtime fitness professional and Midwest girl turned mountain living hiking addict. And combining my knowledge of fitness and passion for hiking, I've helped hundreds of women get lean and strong for the trails. Think of this as your one stop shop for both education and inspiration on all things female wellness, trail talk and adventure. Hiking, female metabolism, motherhood, nutrition, travel and fitness are all topics you'll hear discussed here. If you are outdoorsy and active, looking to level up your health, unlock your potential, and become inspired to live your most vibrant life, you're in the right place. You're listening to the fit for Hiking podcast. 1s Hello and welcome back to another episode of the fit for Hiking podcast. Today we have a special guest. We have Emily Zano, who you may know her on Instagram with her account psychology. She's also a former Mountain Metabolic clients and we connected years ago. It feels like through Instagram. So happy to have her on the show. Emily is a full time art director photographer based in Los Angeles, but she loves to get outdoors on the weekends as a weekend warrior, hiking, climbing all the things. She founded her Instagram account and blog her psychology in 2014 with the intention to help other women feel empowered in the outdoors. So we're going to just kind of talk about all sorts of different outdoors, fitness, backpacking, all the things today. So thank you so much for coming on, Emily. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm honored that you wanted to talk to me. Yeah, I'm excited in particular to hear about one of your more recent adventures that we'll get into in a little bit, but could you start by telling everybody kind of how you got into the outdoors, and what did that look like for you initially? Yeah. So I'll, I'll try to keep it as brief as possible. It's a little it's like a little bit of a two parter, three parter in this little disjointed. But, um, I think, like you, I grew up in the Midwest as well. I grew up in Ohio, um, and pre-Internet. As a kid in suburbia, playing outside was like, really what we did for entertainment? Yes. Yeah, I was so yeah, I was lucky. I had, like a creek in my backyard and a really cool wooded area, and that was kind of like my, my little haven. And, um, my dad was also like a really big Ansel Adams fan. So at some point when I was like a teenager, he handed me, um, down a couple of his minolta like film photography, film cameras, and, um, it was just really fun for me because I could take them out in my backyard and I could go play back there. And and that was kind of just a fun place where I could let my imagination run wild, and I could pretend I was like an explorer and just have fun and just be outside as a kid, which was awesome. Um, and then when I got a little bit older, I actually started working as a summer camp counselor in Northern Kentucky. And so the majority of my summers were really just spent like sleeping outside, rock climbing, kayaking, and like, teaching kids basic outdoor skills and team building skills and stuff, which was which was really fun. And I will say, I'm a huge advocate for sending your kids to camp or being a camp counselor. It's like the best. I think it's like the best worldly experience that you could give a kid to, just like expose them to the outdoors and, and other cultural, you know, people from different cultures and just different experiences. It's just really cool. Um, but on top of all that, too, I was like a competitive soccer player, and I spent all of my time outside being active, and I really, I really didn't know anything else. Um, but then when I moved, I moved to Chicago for school, and I was studying design and photography, and suddenly I was like, in this big city, which was really fun and exciting, but it was such a lifestyle change. And, you know, like the weather in Chicago. I'm sure you're familiar with is very similar. Yeah. So like, summers are insanely hot and humid and winter is very depressingly cold. And it definitely drained me. So, um, after graduating, I decided I wanted to move out to Los Angeles, and I think in my head, I was imagining myself like living on the beach, learning to surf, like, you know, just having this, like, California SoCal experience, like fantasy world. But, um, but yeah, that was kind of a rude awakening when I got out here because it was like, you know, it's expensive to move from Chicago to the West Coast. I mean, anywhere. But it was expensive coming coming from Chicago out here. And, um, I was coming into the job market in 2010 and it was still recovering from the recession. And of course, like, I couldn't afford an apartment near the beach like I, you know, can afford really anything. So it was just not really what I imagined in my head. And I. Became like, super sedentary, like I wasn't. I was driving instead of walking, and I was sitting at a desk from 9 to 5 with a job that was like really stressful. And I was, you know, commuting 45 minutes each way. So suddenly it was like just a complete lifestyle change in a whole other direction. Um, and it really kind of took a toll on me mentally and physically. So, um, that was weird coming to Los Angeles, which is like such an outdoorsy city, you think? And like, suddenly you're, like, strapped inside, um, working all the time and trying to keep up with the grind. And, um, fortunately, though, I had a friend, and this is kind of like the two parter of it all. Um, I had a friend who, um, from was from back home and, you know, living in a big city, you get a lot of visitors, which is great. Um, and so she was like, I'm coming to visit you. And she had been, like, tapped into this whole world of hiking out here that I was not really aware of, like I knew about Griffith Park and Runyon Canyon, which are like great green spaces in the middle of our city with hiking, hiking trails. Yeah. But, um, but she was like, we got to check out this waterfall. We got to go bungee jumping off this bridge like she had, like, all these crazy ideas for things. And she, you know, she lived thousands of miles away. So she would come out and visit me. And we started taking these weekend trips just out to the San Gabriels. And it was like it just sort of clicked with me. All of a sudden this, like, light bulb moment of like, I live in this really big, dense city that can be really overwhelming and a little hectic, but it's also surrounded by mountains and desert and ocean, and there's like so much here to explore. Um, and it just really ignited this passion in me to get out and explore it. More like I realized I hadn't even scratched the surface, and I'd been here for a year or two and really didn't know much about where I was living. And, um, yeah, it was just that was just like one of the catalysts that I think inspired the inception of high ecology and just, like, inspired me to get outside more and explore more and kind of tap back into that childhood sort of imagination that I had when I was little. It kind of like pulled it all together full circle, which was really cool. And. Been doing it ever since. That's awesome. I was thinking when you were talking about your childhood, my sister and I were the same way, and we lived in, like, absolute suburbs, like townhouse. And yet we'd find, like, a little pocket of trees and we'd be like, wow, we're in this, like, amazing wilderness for us. And we'd, like, play all these imaginary games. And we felt like we were in the wilderness. Right? But we're like, literally in the middle of, like a patch of, like five trees. Yeah. It's so funny, though, because I do think that even if you grow up somewhere that's not quote unquote like outdoorsy nature based, if you're a kid, you have that imagination. Like you can still foster that love for like being outside and just play outdoors. And I do think that that like, is something that can stick with you your whole life. And it makes me sad how many kids now are kind of growing up in a very, like, different world because, yeah, we didn't really have like phones or, you know, I mean, computers were a thing, but like, I don't remember, like 1s playing on a computer until I was like in middle school or something. And my whole childhood, it was just so different. Yeah. Um, so I think that's cool that you got back to that as an adults. And Denver is kind of similar, where like if you get caught up in the day to day, you can really kind of miss out on like everything that's you have access to. Yeah, yeah. Expensive city. You have to work really hard and you're not like in the mountains if you're in Denver, right? Yeah, exactly. I do think, like, all it takes sometimes is just to remember, okay, I am like, close enough that I can, like, experience these things pretty regularly. I just have to put in a little bit more effort. Yeah. And it's like all of these things are really thin, like a half hour to an hour away and then, you know, go 3 or 4 hours away and you're in the Eastern Sierras, which is like, yeah, a playground that's just like amazing. And I think another really cool thing that happened was like, I appreciated Ohio when I would go back and like it, it taught me to look for things in Ohio when I would visit that I never thought, like, there's like a beautiful cave systems there that you can hike and there's like these grottos and I don't know, it was just like, yeah, it turned something on in me that I kind of forgot existed in, like my college and like early work life stage. It was just really it's just been really cool to kind of get back into all of that and, and explore more. Yeah, I do the same thing now when I go back to Indiana and Ohio too, because that's where I still have family. Um, you know, I'm like, oh, there actually is so much cool stuff that you find, like, you just have to look for it just like anywhere else, you know? Yeah. Um, okay. That's awesome. That's a really cool story. Um, so I really like that you have such a great balance because you are working full time in a career that you're passionate about, but you're also making time for these adventures on the weekends, sharing about them. What does that balance look like for you? Yeah. It's, you know, it's tough like. And I'm sure you have experience with this too. It's like I've always kind of walked this fine line between loving the outdoors and like, loving being alone and seclusion, but then also loving my job and like, loving the intensity of the city and like, you know, just fast paced ness of it all and restaurants and all of that. But, um, I'm a senior art director at a branding agency, so it can be like very stressful and very time consuming. And oftentimes we have crazy deadlines and turnaround times and projects that keep us at the office late or like into the weekend. And it can just be hard to, like, shut that part of your brain off. Um, and luckily, after years of kind of bouncing around in house and agency jobs, I landed at an agency where, like, my CEO now really cares about mental health and well-being. And so she's really open to like, you know, take time off, make sure you're taking your time off, like, not trying to like, you know, take advantage of her employees. And I think I've also learned from years of experience that to be good at my job and to be the most creative I can be, I really need to be, like, happy and well-rested and feeling fulfilled, um, outside of work and be doing creative things for myself, outside of work. Um, and that's something it took a while because there were times early in my career, like there was a trip. My husband and I went to Brazil and I, I took a day off. That's like an 18 hour flight. Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah. So it was like literally a long weekend in Sao Paulo, like, because I was too scared to take time off. And and I think I learned a lot from that. Like, I can't believe I, I can't believe I did that and I'm like, kicking myself now, you know, ten years later, like, I can't believe I did that. So now I'm like, no, I'm taking my time. Um, I'm definitely still like very much a weekend warrior. And oftentimes I'm squeezing trips into the mountains or at the desert into a very short window. But yeah, for me, it's worth it, because being in nature and like being with my camera out in nature kind of brings me peace. And it ties those two sides of me together that are kind of opposing. It's like the side of me that like, loves technology and being on my computer and the side of me that also loves being in nature. It's like a nice way to to balance them and bring it together. So yeah, that's what I've kind of found. It's like trying to find that thing that can kind of tie it all together and make it worth it for you. Yeah, I like that you mentioned the two different sides, because I kind of find myself in a similar boat where I don't really love to be like hardcore outdoors, hiking, backpacking every single weekend. Like, yeah, yeah, I actually really don't anymore. Like I used to probably a little bit more than I do now. But now I love weekends at home where I don't do anything all weekend. I love, like going to the city and like going to nice restaurants and getting dressed up. Like, I think it's nice when you can find that there are two parts of yourself and you don't have to only identify with like, I'm super outdoorsy and I never, like, do anything else. That's like under like a city girl umbrella, if that makes sense. Well, and it's like at some point it starts to turn into, like the thing that you love, like, I love being outside and I love backpacking. It turns it into work, though, when you're like, I have to do it every weekend. So and I think, like for me, yes it does. It is like a form of stress relief. But like for my husband, it kind of stresses him out because I'm like, go, go, go. And he's like, but I can't be like that all the time. Yeah, I'm tired from the workweek. Yeah, yeah. He's like, so can we. So I've like it's been good for me though. That's balanced. That part of me out that's like, okay, maybe not every weekend has to be, you know, so strict getting outside. Like I don't want it to become a chore. I want it to be like when I need it, I go there and when I don't, it's okay. And it's, it's okay to get things done around the house. Yes, I yeah, I'm always working on that balance myself too hard. It's hard. So you recently shared on your account about a solo backpacking trip that you just completed in April. Um, so what was the trail? And tell us a little bit about that experience, because that was your first solo, right? Yeah, yeah. Um. Oh my gosh, it's it's funny because I'm like, I, I was saying earlier, like for your listeners, this is probably seems like not that big of a deal, but I feel like because I feel like I follow so many women who are out solo hiking and backpacking, and I'm just kind of dipping my toe in the solo backpacking stuff now. But somehow in all my 35 years, I have only just went on my first solo backpacking trip. I actually don't think it's as common as you think for like, yeah, a lot of women, like it's still something that's like, I've actually never solo backpacked. Yeah, a lot of solo hiking, but I've never solo backpacked. So that's something that I still am, like, interested in hearing other people's experiences, because to me, it still feels kind of out of my comfort zone. Yeah, yeah. No. And it's it totally makes sense because like, yeah, I've like, I feel like I've been doing this forever. I've been hiking forever. I've been outdoorsy, like, my whole life. But but it was never something that I had done. And I think as women too were often like maybe a little bit more timid with it and intimidated by being alone in the outdoors. But but yeah, this trip, um, I would definitely recommend for anyone who is like trying to find a good. Sort of beginning backpacking trail or solo hiking or solo backpacking trail because, um, it's really all planned out for you. So it was the Trans Catalina Trail. It's located on Catalina Island, which is about 22 miles from mainland Los Angeles Long Beach area. Um, and I think the full trail is about 38.5 miles or 38 miles, something like that. And I personally only did 26 miles, essentially hiking from like harbor to harbor, because I wanted to put it into a weekend without taking PTO. 1s Yeah. But, um, but it was a really amazing experience. And I think the reason it's really great for first time backpackers or solo backpackers is because you can really plan it all out from start to finish, and it feels pretty safe. Um, like if anything were to happen, I feel like you have like an exit route pretty easily. Whereas like, maybe if you were up, you know, in the Rockies, around the Sierras, like it might be a little bit more intimidating or a little bit more isolating. Um, but yeah, you, you basically like book all of your campsites ahead of time. You figure out the dates you want to go. Um, you can even request to have them, like bring firewood to your, um, campsites. So if you want to have a fire, you can have a fire. Yeah. Um, and then there's, like, plenty of potable water along the trail. So, um, it feels like you're getting off the grid, but you have, like, some, some backup, and you don't feel like you're completely isolated, which I think was really cool. Um, but yeah, this was definitely a good example of, like, the whole weekend warrior lifestyle, though, because, like, leading up to this trip, um, I was like, I was feeling so prepared. I had like the weekend before, like, laid all my gear out and I was like, okay, I'm going to do this. Like it was a goal I set for myself in 2024 to solo backpack at least once. Um, and I think it was just like I wanted to kind of prove to myself that I could do it. Um, but yeah, I like I prepped really hard for it, and I was all ready for it. And then in the middle of the week, this, like, fire drill came into work and like, all hell broke loose. And it was just like I was up every night that week till like, midnight working and then had to catch a 6 a.m. ferry out of Long Beach to get to the island. And I had like three hours of sleep, and it was just like it was a little hard on that first day. And I was like, what am I doing? Like, I can't believe I decided to do this. So like, I was having all these like, doubts in my head. Um, so like I definitely went through that for sure. Like that first time experience being like, what? Did I make a huge mistake? Like, I'm out here by myself, I'm on three hours of sleep. I have to hike 11 miles today. Like, what am I going to do? But, um, I think that kind of made it even more of an experience like and like, prove to myself, like, you can do this. Like you've done this before, like you're fine and, um, yeah, it's just it's a really cool trail. I will say it's a really hard trail. It's, like, deceptively hard because you're. You're in an environment that kind of feels like, I don't know if you've hiked in like the Santa Monica mountains at all, but it feels very coastal. Obviously it's an island, and it's it's not like mountainous, the way that, you know, the Rockies or the Sierras are where you feel like you're you're up there. But, um, it's a lot of elevation gain and there is no shade, and it's just relentlessly uphill. And that first day you're just like, am I like, I must have passed the campsite, not be right, not be right. Like so it's a it's a hard, hard trail, um, for sure. So I don't want to, like, make it. I don't want to like, downplay it. Like, oh, it's a beginning backpacking trail. But it is, I think, for the reasons that I stated earlier, like a great trail for people who kind of want to dip their toe in and feel safe. Um, everyone on the islands like, really friendly and really supportive. And there's even, um, there's an airport on the island that you can hike up to and, like, get a hot meal, charge your phone if you need to. So there's like, it's just it's just a it's a great little. Yeah. It's just like it felt good to be able like I can reach out to my husband and like, let him know I'm okay. Like, yeah, have that little comfort. Yeah, yeah, it was nice, so I definitely recommend it. Um, it was a lot of fun. Definitely. What would you say your biggest takeaways were of like that experience of doing it solo versus when you've done, you know, group backpacking in the past? Yeah. Um, I think one thing that I really loved about it was that I could just hike whatever hike I wanted. Yeah, I'm admittedly like a very slow hiker, no matter what kind of shape I'm in. Like, even if I'm in the best shape of my life. Like, I love to take breaks. I like to take pictures. Um, I just really like to take in the scenery. So being alone was nice because I didn't have that pressure of, like, a group or somebody else who was like, come on, like, keep up with me. Or like, we have to get to a certain time. It was like I could just kind of like, go at my own pace. Um, obviously, you know, there's time restrictions based on, like, trying to get somewhere before dark, but, um, but yeah, I just didn't. I didn't feel that pressure of of having anyone else with me to kind of, like, determine the pace I had to be at and or anything like that. And, um, I will say though, like, I love being alone and it's funny, like, I probably my drives my husband nuts. Um, but I love to be alone and I solo hike a lot. Um, and it's something that I find when I solo hike, too. I definitely miss, like, sharing cool experiences with other people, though when you're out on the trail by yourself, it's like there was one night, um, on the Trans Catalina Trail where I actually, like, camped out directly on this beach. And it was beautiful. There was like this amazing sunset. And like, right as the sun went down, like, all these frogs just started croaking and, like, singing and it was just, like, so magical. And I was like, I'm by myself. Like, I wish, I wish I could, like, turn to somebody else and be like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. Like, are you are you hearing this? It's so cool. So there's some of that, like loneliness. Um, and I feel like I've heard a lot of other solo backpackers and hikers talk about that a lot is like the loneliness that also comes with it a little bit. Um, so I definitely felt that. And it's I'm trying to figure out, like, how do you how do you balance that out and how do you capture that? Because it's it's hard when you have those moments and you're like, I'm a little sad. Like, I wish I could share this with somebody. So, uh, that that always has been a hang up for me with solo. The idea of solo backpacking, because I am such a social person, and so I feel like I do it mostly for the social aspect, like I love just getting outside with other people. So I think that would be definitely hard for me. Yeah, yeah. Um, that's so cool to hear about, though. How would you say you worked up the confidence to get to the point where you were like, okay, I'm ready after so long? Of of, um, not doing those things solo? Yeah. I mean, I think I, like I mentioned like, my husband's amazing. I love him, obviously. And we travel and hike together very often, but he is not a big fan of backpacking. He's not a big fan of camping. Um, and like, he'll tolerate it for a night. But anything more than that, he's he's kind of out. And honestly, like, I don't have a lot of friends who are into backpacking the way that I am or into even hiking the way that I am. So it's hard because I want to go do things, and doing them alone is intimidating. Or I know that it puts a lot of stress on him because like, he worries about me when I go by myself, like I, I feel pretty confident in myself. But I know that he gets a little anxious when like, you know, maybe he hasn't heard from me or I haven't returned, like quite as soon as he expected. So a lot of that I think has always weighed on me. And it's probably why I haven't done anything really solo for so long. Um, but I kind of just came to the mindset lately. I think just getting older, I've been like, screw it. Like if I can't find anybody to come with me, like, I have to go do these things. Yeah. Otherwise I'm not going to get to experience them. So, um, so that's been a real motivator. And then I think I mentioned to like just following other women on Instagram, particularly solo hikers and backpackers. Like that's been that's been huge for me because I've seen a lot of that uptick lately. And it's it's really empowering and it's really exciting to see that happening in the world. And, um, that's been awesome. And I think also leading up to this trip, one thing that I made sure I did was like, I went on a couple group backpacking trips, and then I actually took my husband on a on a backpacking trip. And I really, like, did everything and kind of like planned everything out. I got our meals together, and once we did that together, I was like, okay, if I can take him out, I can take myself out. Yeah, that's a really good idea. Yeah, yeah, it just gave me a little bit of the confidence of, like, I took care of us on that trip and it was great and went off without a hitch, like, I know what I'm doing so I can do this. Yeah. That's awesome. Okay, so I kind of want to pivot a little bit, um, and talk about a little bit of the fitness side of things, because in the beginning of 2023, you worked with Mountain Meadows Metabolic Coaching, and I had the privilege of being your coach, which was really fun. Um, and some of your goals were kind of based around, like getting a little bit stronger for climbing. Obviously hiking is a big factor for you and just overall improved body composition. So could you share about your experience in the program and kind of how that translated to your outdoor experiences? Yeah, yeah, I loved it. Um, little backstory that like kind of didn't go into detail earlier with my whole move to LA and everything was, um, during that whole time of like. Becoming a lot more sedentary and kind of familiarizing myself with like the work life balance and all of that. Um, I was diagnosed with PCOS, so I struggled a lot throughout my teen years with like really painful periods and anxiety. And then when I started working full time and I was like more stressed and less active, my hormones just like went crazy. And as a result of that, I gained like £30 very quickly. My skin was a mess. It was like I didn't recognize myself and it was it was really rough there. And I think over the years I've tried just about everything. I've tried Whole30, I've done paleo, I've done like every bootcamp there is that exists, like, um, and some things did work for a little while, but nothing was really sustainable. Um, and then during the pandemic, I was really experimenting a lot more with like home workouts. And I think that was when I came across your page and I really related to your story. Um, I actually you know, tried one of I think I tried one of your, um, smaller programs first, actually, that was just like not one on one coaching or anything. It was just like a schedule of workouts. And, and when I done that, um, I found, like, it was really great because it was tailored to hikers, and I was integrating it in with some of my other workout routines and like some of my yoga and stuff like that. And I just found it was great to have that added guidance and structure. And I noticed a lot of change just from like that month long program. I think it was that I had done. So that was kind of my gateway drug. And then and then in 2022, I was I was getting back into rock climbing, and I had set some big backpacking goals for 2023. And I quickly realized when I started climbing again that I was really out of shape and like, my upper body strength was just like really lacking. And I had thought back to, um, that program that I had done with you, and I'm like, the name of it is like slipping my mind, but. Um, I just remembered, like, I had a lot of success with that. And so I, I was definitely really interested in doing the Mountain Metabolic program, and it really just aligned with my overall goals, because going back to the whole PCOS diagnosis, like studies really show that strength training, like slow strength training, is really good for curbing cortisol levels and boosting metabolism. And a lot of what your program was based in was like based around that. And then it also aligned with my hiking and my climbing goals. So it was just like a really great way for me to take both of those things and kind of put them together. Um, and it just really helped me get stronger on the climbing wall, but then also on the trail, just like increasing my, my confidence overall. And um, yeah, I really I really enjoyed it. That's awesome to hear. So what would you say to someone who maybe has similar goals to you? Um, but it's kind of like nervous to make the leap and invest in something like coaching if they haven't done something like that before. Yeah, I would say go for it. Obviously. Um, I, I am like a, I'm such a big fan of all of like the, the fit for hiking programs and your ethos and like what it stands for. Um, but I, you know, I understand like it's, it's an investment and it can be a little scary. I think a lot of people might hesitate because they're afraid, like, it'll be a waste and it won't work, but. I think whether or not it works a is is actually like really up to the individual. Like your program has laid it all out. You're giving people the tools and at the end of the day, like it's really up to them to use those tools. So that's like my opinion on one case. But then B, I don't think there's really a world in which it doesn't work. And unless you just like, don't participate. I, like you said, it really is like how much you're willing to put into the process. Yeah, yeah. And maybe you don't necessarily see like the results you expected or maybe what you wanted, but you will find positive results out of it one way or another. Like for me, I didn't necessarily lose weight and that was fine because that wasn't my goal. I was more concerned with like getting stronger than losing weight. But obviously losing weight is always a perk. Um, but what I took from the program was really more of like, um, mental was more mental, and I think it like laid a foundation for me that set the rest of my year up for success, which was amazing. And while maybe the scale didn't move, I saw changes in my body based on like my climbing progression. I think I moved up like two grades throughout the three months that we were working together. I was seeing muscles in my arms in my back that I was like, so surprised that I even had. I was like, I didn't even know this existed. Um, yeah. And I was like, just confident on the wall, which for climbing is such like climbing is so mental. And so having that confidence and being like, I'm strong, like I can make that move. Yeah. Having that insecurity was like huge for me. So, um, you know, I go back and I look back at videos from like that time period and I'm like, oh my gosh, like my back looks like so like and it's just it's just really cool to see that actual like physical progression. And that to me is like worth so much more um, than like losing a couple pounds or something, like, I want to see success like on the, on the wall and on the trail. Um, which was awesome. And I definitely. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. That's. Yeah, such good stuff to hear. I love seeing another woman who's just getting after it. Weekend warrior. You're just you're crushing 1s it. Um, so where can listeners find you? 1s Um, yeah, I am kind of a one trick pony. I just hang out on Instagram, mostly at psychology. Um, and or you can try to follow my blog, which I will, uh, you know, honestly, uh, you know, admit I very intermittently update, but that's psychology la comm. So yeah. Thanks. We will link those in the show notes. And thank you so much for coming on today. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It's so fun to talk to you as well. All right. Thanks for tuning in everybody. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the fit for hiking podcast. As always, I hope it leaves you feeling inspired and informed on how to take your health and adventure into your own hands. For more content like this, be sure to follow along with my daily posts at Ponytail Underscore. On a trail that's ponytail underscore on a trail. You can also stay up to date on my new episodes being released at Fit Underscore for hiking, and find more free resources at Pony Tail on a trail.com. Happy and healthy trails.