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Loud for the Men: Partners, Cheerleaders & Dads Who Lifts Us · Loud & Lifted

0:00
Welcome to Loud and Lifted, the podcast where
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we celebrate bold women and brave moves. I'm
0:05
your host, Betsy Hamm. Today, we're doing something
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a little different. We're getting loud for the
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men. Through nearly every conversation we've
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had with women on this show, one theme keeps
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rising to the top, and that's support, and the
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importance of support in order to be successful
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in life. The kind of support that shows up late
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at night with a pep talk, early in the morning
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with coffee and calm, and every moment in between.
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That support comes from someone behind the scenes,
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a partner, a husband, a father, who's been in
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it with them, not just cheering from the sideline,
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but walking the path alongside them. They provide
0:41
unwavering support, strength, and heart. So,
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in honor of Father's Day, we're passing the mic
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to a few of those incredible men, the ones helping
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raise strong daughters, backing bold women, and
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proving that strength doesn't always need the
0:54
spotlight. This is a compilation of honest and
0:57
thoughtful conversations with the men who lift
0:59
us. Let's get loud for them. First of all, tell
1:10
me about your wife professionally and what she
1:13
does. So my wife is Margaret Miller better known
1:17
as the founder and where of all hats for all
1:21
things three little birds boutique she started
1:24
the business I think in 2017 out of our house
1:27
and has grown it to multiple locations and even
1:31
has integrated her own design company into the
1:35
company to produce and manufacture her own clothing
1:39
for the stores super passionate about what she
1:41
does and I've never met anyone who works harder
1:44
than she does. Oh, that's awesome. And I totally
1:48
agree. And we had the opportunity to talk to
1:50
Margaret on one of our first podcasts. And one
1:53
of her big takeaways, I think for everyone was
1:55
the fact of how supportive you have been to her.
1:58
Sounds like you're really the instigator to her
2:00
to give her the confidence and to be able to
2:03
do this. So talk to me a little bit about back
2:06
in Las Vegas, when you said, hey, you need to
2:08
go out on your own. Like, how did that even come
2:11
about? And did you feel really confident sitting
2:12
there? and getting behind it. Yeah. So I mean,
2:16
at the time she was involved in a company called
2:18
Lularoe, which I'm sure people listening to at
2:21
one point were familiar with. And it was really
2:25
good for her. She was one of the early people
2:28
who got involved in that and I think grew as
2:30
the company experienced a lot of growth. But
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there was some challenges with that. And I think
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a lack of creative direction that she was able
2:39
to provide. So, you know, when, when you were
2:41
a Lularoe consultant, you placed orders for things
2:44
and you just got whatever they sent you. And
2:47
so sometimes you got good stuff and sometimes
2:49
you didn't get good stuff. And, uh, it was really
2:52
frustrating when you would, you know, spend all
2:54
this money on this inventory and it would come
2:56
in and she's disappointed with, with what came
2:59
in. And I think at that time, you know, she had
3:01
grown to a point where it was evident to me that.
3:07
She understood a lot of the basic principles
3:10
of business and was able to be successful in
3:13
that. Why not give yourself the ability to have
3:15
a little bit more control of the direction of
3:17
it and your own branding and build some personal
3:20
brand equity at the same time. And so for her
3:24
30th birthday, we took a trip out to Las Vegas.
3:27
And I can remember we were at a dinner at a restaurant
3:29
at the Bellagio. And I said, listen, like...
3:32
You know, rather than continuing down this path,
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I know, you know, it's taking a risk and you're
3:37
kind of giving up a lot of the certainty in your
3:39
life right now. But I think you're going to be
3:41
so much more successful and so much happier if
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you go, go do this. And by the way, like, don't
3:47
worry about like the risk that we're taking.
3:48
Like we'll figure that out. I think it's just
3:50
going to be better in the long -term. So maybe
3:52
gave her a little bit of a nudge to kind of go
3:54
out on her own and try something without the
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support of some type of corporation behind her,
4:00
which was really a new experience for her. Uh,
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but I really saw the potential in it and potential
4:04
in her. And I thought she'd just be really successful
4:07
at it. Oh, that's so awesome. And so obviously
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there's ups and downs in any business. So how
4:12
do you support the ups and the downs on her throughout
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the years? Being a small business owner is no
4:19
easy task, right? It's like watching your day
4:22
off, turn into a quick work check every time.
4:24
Like there's, there's, it's really hard to turn
4:26
the switch off. And so I think, you know, for
4:30
her, she's always. thinking about and worried
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about not just her customers, but her employees
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and the community and everything really. So it's
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important for me to be able to support her through
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all of the challenges. There's financial challenges.
4:45
There's uh, people challenges, uh, both from
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a customer standpoint, as well as, you know,
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from an employee standpoint. And so, you know,
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I think we balance each other out really well.
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I tell people a lot of times, like the key to
4:58
success is having lots of dogs. So for those
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who don't know, we've got five dogs. And I think
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one of the things that is like incredibly valuable
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in our relationship, because there's plenty of
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days where like we say hi in the mornings and
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then like, we don't see each other till we're
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in bed at night. And by then we're both too exhausted
5:13
to talk to each other. But if it's nice out,
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you can almost guarantee that after dinner we're
5:18
gonna take the dogs for a walk, and it's usually
5:20
just the two of us. And so that's kind of our
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opportunity to kind of talk through issues, whether
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it's on the personal front, what we have going
5:27
on that week, and making sure that we've got
5:29
coverage for kids. get them to practices and
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whatever, but then also just to kind of talk
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through some business issues. And, you know,
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I don't have all the answers, but, you know,
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sometimes it's just being able to listen and
5:40
let her kind of express what she wants to talk
5:43
about and ask the questions. And she's pretty
5:45
good at coming to her own conclusions and figuring
5:48
the solutions out herself. Oh, that's awesome.
5:50
And that's so important being intentional about
5:53
spending time because you have a demanding career
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too. So you both are running in different directions.
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You have three kids. I forgot it was five dogs.
6:00
Good Lord. So there's a lot of chaos, right?
6:04
Going on around you and taking that time to make
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sure you connect is really important for the
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professional piece of it. And also, of course,
6:11
just personally. Yeah, I think, you know, having
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two people who have demanding careers that might
6:16
take us in different directions, it's really
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important for us to have, you know, some time
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for just the two of us. And then also just the
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time for us each individually too. And so you
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have to be intentional about it. And sometimes
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that means, you know, skipping out on doing some
6:30
things that, you know, you should get done, but
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just have to put them to the side and say, listen,
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I'll take care of that later. This is more important.
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That's very true. Prioritizing for sure. So is
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there one moment that you're most proud of her
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throughout the last few years of her career?
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I think collectively, one of the things that
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I'm really proud of is when we first started
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down this journey with her, I can remember Nick
6:53
trying to negotiate for her first location and
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she was working with or talking with a commercial
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real estate broker. that industry is predominantly
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male dominated. And she was talking with this
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person and without making any preconceived notions
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of what his intentions behind some of his comments
7:12
were kind of was talking to her like, Hey, is
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this a hobby for you? Is this a real business?
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You know, is you just some, you know, cute girl
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who's trying to do something for fun. It's like
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a real thing for you. And so, you know, it's
7:26
really amazing for me to kind of see the success
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that she's had over the years to kind of prove
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everybody wrong. Because I think people get into
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that business just to have one store and some
7:37
people it's, you know, they've got a rich husband
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and, you know, this is something to keep them
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busy, but I'm really proud of sort of what she's
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built and, you know, building this thing into
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multiple locations, being an influencer within
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the community and then a great role model to
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our kids too. Yeah. So let's talk about your
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kids. So you have two boys and a girl. So especially
7:55
with your daughter, what do you hope that you're
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showing her? I know she's young and her getting
8:00
married and have a career seems really far away.
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But what do you hope she's learning from the
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two of you and being good examples? Yeah, so
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I hope she sees sort of the way that that we
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treat each other and the balance that we have
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because Some people say marriage is 50 -50 is
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no in no way shape or form 50 -50 It's a hundred
8:16
a hundred and so, you know I hope she sees that
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we're both trying to make efforts to make sure
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each of us are fulfilled in our lives and that
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neither of us has a career that's more important
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than the other and it's not about who makes more
8:29
money and cash flow that we're building other
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things that are both complementary to one another
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I think Josephine's 12 going on 23 and her and
8:39
I are very different personalities and we tend
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to clash probably more than I do with my boys.
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I think I view my role as more making sure my
8:47
boys understand what it means to have a successful
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driven. a purposeful wife and you know how to
8:55
treat that person and making sure that you know
8:57
their life is just as fulfilled as your own because
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I think I see a lot of times you know the the
9:02
stereotypical male breadwinner female who has
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to uh the wife who's who's the cooker and you
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know the house cleaner and all of those things
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and for some women like that's not fulfilling
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life to them and so you know everybody needs
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to be happy and and uh for us that's that's not
9:17
a source of happiness when one of us is doing
9:19
all of that the other one's you know going out
9:21
having this great career and being social. Right.
9:24
No, I totally, totally get that in the same boat
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for sure. So what is some advice you would have
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for other men who think that maybe they need
9:32
to be a better partner and supporter of their
9:35
spouse or girlfriend? I think the first step
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is the same thing that I deal with all my clients
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is like really just sitting down and having a
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conversation about like, what do you want out
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of life? you know, what, what does that look
9:46
like for you? What is the ideal situation for,
9:48
for that person or that individual? And then,
9:51
you know, being their supporter, like you don't
9:53
always have to be in the spotlight. Like maybe
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that person has the personality and the desire
9:57
and the drive to be really successful at something.
10:00
And like their, their light's already shining.
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Your job is just not to block it. Stay out of
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the way of, of their happiness and success. And
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in my experience, you know, that usually works
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out for you, for you pretty well too. The only
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other thing that I think like really comes to
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mind for me is understanding how I think some
10:20
social stereotypes play into the emotional side
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of being a woman in business. Anybody who asks
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me can get my opinion pretty quickly on things
10:29
like social media and Instagram and TikTok. And,
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you know, I think that it's such a big part of
10:33
society today. And I'm like the most anti social
10:37
media person on the planet, uh, because I don't
10:39
really see anything good coming from it. That
10:41
being said, it's like a huge part of, of like
10:44
being in business today is to promote your products
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or services on social media. see the other side
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of it right where you know things aren't always
10:53
easy and there are challenges and it's it's not
10:56
all sunshine and rainbows and so I think it's
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it's really important for people to understand
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that just because you might see somebody feeling
11:04
happy or successful on social media doesn't mean
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that it's it's the same way behind the curtain
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and so particularly for your spouse or your partner
11:12
like you can't harbor these feelings of animosity
11:15
or jealousy you know for people who maybe or
11:17
appear to be having success the time and get
11:19
to know you know what's going on really with
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the person because it's not always the case.
11:25
No, that's so true. That's a great point. So
11:28
you said you're not on social media very often.
11:29
I want to make sure, you know, there's a viral
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video of you out there wearing flare jeans. Yeah.
11:33
It's not my favorite thing in the world to do.
11:35
And so, I mean, you bring up a good point. You
11:38
know, sometimes you're going to have to do things
11:39
that make you uncomfortable in order to help
11:41
your spouse be successful in their endeavors
11:44
too. I was going to say that's the, like another
11:47
level of being supportive, right? Like you're
11:49
there emotionally, you're there for the conversations.
11:51
You never knew that you were going to have to
11:53
do something like that. And it would be so...
11:55
popular, right? Yeah, that's good. And it's it's
11:58
kind of cool. I mean, I kind of view her as like
12:02
this rock star or this, you know, celebrity and
12:04
like I get backstage passes behind the scenes,
12:09
you know, jealous of that. Yeah. Mike Harrell,
12:12
thank you so much for joining me on Loud and
12:14
Lifted. You're one of our very first male guests,
12:17
so congrats to you. And the reason why you're
12:20
here today is because you are an amazing, supportive
12:23
man to an amazing wife. And we're here to talk
12:26
today about how you do such a great job supporting
12:29
your wife while you have your own very high stress,
12:33
high important career too. So first of all, let's
12:36
talk about your wife because that's fun. What
12:37
does she do professionally? She is actually the
12:41
chief revenue officer for a specialty insurance
12:46
pharmaceutical company that provides alternative
12:50
options for employers to be able to save money
12:55
on health care and medications and things like
12:58
that. She's been in specialty pharma, I would
13:01
say, for close to 20 years now as a vice president,
13:05
director, et cetera. Hey, the fact that you can
13:07
explain what she does is good because that's
13:09
not really like cut and dry and basic. Yeah.
13:15
I was just thinking, I hope that was right. I
13:17
know I'm close. I know I'm close. Erin will let
13:19
us know if not, but that sounded good. Sounds
13:21
important. And she recently got a promotion just
13:24
a few months ago, weeks ago. Yep. Absolutely.
13:26
From vice president to the chief revenue officer
13:28
in his company. So it's exciting and well -deserved.
13:32
She works hard. For sure. So through the years
13:35
and through her promotions, how have you taken
13:37
an active role in supporting her career? And
13:40
obviously I think she's had pretty strong ambitions
13:42
as well. Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing
13:45
is just kind of being intentional about how I
13:48
want to make sure that she feels supported, right?
13:51
I wanted to kind of relieve any stress that she
13:53
had, especially when traveling. It was time that
13:55
she had to travel a lot to let her know that,
13:57
you know, I'm here. I'm going to be handling
13:59
things. You know, we can get support of family,
14:02
but, you know, it's okay, right? You know, whether
14:05
it was. myself doing it, which I had to do at
14:08
times or her. I think that just trying to be
14:10
intentional and make sure that, you know, things
14:13
don't miss a beat. She's always great. We try
14:14
to pre plan when she's going to travel as far
14:17
as meals and schedule and everything like that.
14:20
And, you know, me just trying to take that ball
14:22
and run to the best of my ability to do the things
14:24
that she normally would do as well. So and we
14:26
should mention you have three kids. So especially
14:28
when they're young and they have. kind of an
14:30
age difference between your oldest and youngest.
14:32
So you've been living in two worlds here for
14:34
a while. Absolutely, right? Yeah, we have 18
14:37
who's soon to graduate from high school, 16 soon
14:40
to be a junior, and we have a seven -year -old
14:43
soon to be in third grade. So yeah, absolutely
14:45
the full gamut as far as raising children right
14:48
now. That's awesome. So what's one thing that
14:52
you're most proud of her through her career?
14:54
Honestly, one of the things that I'm really proud
14:57
of is, you know, I love her ambition and drive,
15:01
but more so I love that she's been able to persevere
15:03
through, you know, various scenarios, you know,
15:06
being in management, being a director, you know,
15:10
being a female and a male dominated industry
15:13
or positions group. I love the fact that she's
15:17
stayed the course no matter how rough things
15:19
have gotten and made the appropriate moves and
15:23
allowed her work to do the talking for her and
15:27
become successful. So I'm really proud of her
15:29
perseverance as well as her ambition and drive
15:31
not to let anyone knock her off of her direction.
15:36
And what kind of good words of encouragement
15:37
do you have? Because we all have those highs
15:39
and lows when she was probably down at some point.
15:42
Oh, absolutely. You know confidence which we
15:45
all go through. So, you know, how do you kind
15:46
of talk through that? I just try to remain positive.
15:49
I keep telling her like hey, it's going to work
15:52
out right I know she is she definitely someone
15:54
who is concerned and will worry You know, I try
15:58
to be positive and try to have like the most
15:59
respectful interpretation like hey Things are
16:02
going to work out. We'll figure it out. Like
16:04
we always have over You know our 21st 25 plus
16:07
years together like it's going to work out right?
16:10
You know have faith and keep doing what you're
16:13
doing, and I believe it's gonna work out, and
16:14
I do, especially when it comes to her. Yeah,
16:16
that's awesome. You also have a very important
16:19
job, and it's probably very demanding, so how
16:21
do you balance out that she also is there to
16:24
support you? The same, right? I think that we
16:27
try to make sure we hyper -communicate on things
16:29
that need, that has to be done, whether it's
16:32
appointments or... extended work hours or if
16:36
I have to travel or do something, right, be able
16:39
to hyper communicate and kind of adjust, you
16:41
know, kind of on a fly and stay agile. And then,
16:44
you know, she's also been very supportive, right,
16:46
throughout my career, where there's been changes
16:49
of companies or, you know, maybe a little bit
16:51
difference in my role or maybe I want to kind
16:53
of step out and start a LLC, which I've been
16:56
able to do. She's been there to support and help
16:58
me out through that. So that's great. So you've
17:01
used three really, I think, important words,
17:03
right? You started talked about being intentional
17:05
and you talked about being positive and optimistic,
17:08
which is huge. And now you just use communication.
17:10
So you got these three big buckets that you probably
17:13
focus on. Maybe you didn't even realize it, but
17:15
now that we're making you think about this, is
17:17
there anything else like that that you think
17:19
is important to have a successful partnership
17:22
in marriage and that's professionally and personally?
17:26
Yeah. I mean, I think that you know, you gotta
17:28
communicate, right? You can always be better
17:29
at communicating, but, you know, have to communicate,
17:33
especially when it comes to what you're, you
17:34
know, how you're feeling about your career and
17:36
your goals. I think that you need to, you know,
17:41
also... Guess you know like I said be positive
17:44
and support one another but then you know also
17:47
be there when things aren't going You know the
17:50
way that you want to write to have someone there
17:51
to kind of balance you out when maybe you're
17:53
ready to give up or You're ready to try something
17:56
different or you're ready. You know you're on
17:58
the ledge I think you know doing that as well,
18:00
and I think that you know Having you know mutual
18:04
respect right like I respect her and her career
18:07
goals, and I you know when she respects me and
18:08
my career goals right Nick It depends on kind
18:12
of where you are in life, right? Me being a talent
18:14
acquisition, you know, I've worked with so many
18:16
different types of individuals where, you know,
18:20
different things are important. I think a lot
18:21
of times people think, oh, someone will take
18:23
this job for more money. Well, you know, as you
18:26
become older, as you know, right, different things
18:28
become more important to you, right? Like I have
18:30
a daughter is graduating, going to college, right?
18:32
I have someone young and things are, you know,
18:34
it's different, important levels. And I think
18:36
that being able to understand that with your
18:39
partner is huge, right? Definitely. Sometimes
18:42
you might have to take a step back, right? For
18:44
the greater good, right? To be a good team player
18:46
and that's okay. Absolutely. It's that balance
18:48
for sure. Everybody can't be going a hundred
18:49
miles per hour in different directions. Yep.
18:52
I agree. So do you think there's still stereotypes
18:55
out there, whether it's for women and or men
18:57
just kind of like who's the breadwinner, who
19:00
has the big career? I mean, do you feel that?
19:02
Do you hear that? All the time, all the time,
19:04
especially when we're dealing with, you know,
19:07
let's say home repair outside salespeople where
19:10
they want to talk with me and I'm like, hey,
19:12
you need to talk with with Aaron, right? Because
19:14
they may be in some, you know, older traditional
19:18
or, you know, former ideology where like, hey,
19:21
I got to talk to the man of the house, which,
19:23
you know, is absolutely fine. But it doesn't
19:25
just need to be me. I don't have the final word.
19:27
One of the things I think that Aaron and I do
19:29
very well is that we try to, you know, mutually
19:32
agree on things like now. It's definitely stuff
19:34
that, you know, I will. Take a step back because
19:37
she's better at that and then you know vice versa
19:39
with me trying to lean into our strengths, right?
19:42
But oh, yeah, absolutely. I think you know, I
19:46
think women definitely get the stereotype of
19:48
settlement right like oh, you know He's the man
19:50
of the house or he's fixing and building everything
19:52
which I am NOT right or you know the meaning
19:56
Women has to do these certain things and cleaning
19:59
and all this other stuff. And, you know, we try
20:02
not to live by those rules, especially with children
20:05
and living in a different world, right? Right.
20:07
For sure. And when you're both working, it's
20:09
really hard. You have to juggle and whatever
20:11
you can outsource. Like I'm a big fan of outsourcing,
20:13
whether it's when the kids were younger, the,
20:16
you know, strong daycare or whatever it was.
20:18
Oh, 100%. Right. Because you're paying for your
20:22
time. I think that's what people don't actually
20:24
understand. Cause that's the commodity. You can't
20:26
get back. Right. Yeah. So what's something you
20:29
think people misunderstand about being the partner
20:32
of a strong, driven woman? The caveat for people
20:36
who don't know you is you're also a strong, driven
20:37
man, right? Yeah, I would say, yeah. That's a
20:39
very interesting dynamic, that you both have
20:42
this drive. You're both strong. I wouldn't want
20:45
to argue with either one of you on it. How does
20:49
that work from a partnership? I mean, we definitely
20:52
butt heads. I'd be lying to you if I say we didn't,
20:54
especially over time. But I would say it's also
20:57
what helps. us, right? It helps us become a partner,
21:00
like we're competitive and, you know, we both
21:03
have strong opinions and want to be heard. And,
21:06
you know, it's definitely times where it gets
21:07
me probably in more trouble. But I think the
21:10
biggest thing, you know, when it comes to that
21:13
is, you know, again, having that understanding
21:15
of your partner and who they are and kind of
21:17
what's important to them. And then you can kind
21:20
of, you know, I would say adjust accordingly,
21:23
so to speak. And when it comes to that, I think
21:25
that Again communicating and talking about your
21:28
goals and talking about things that are important
21:30
to you, right? So it is no surprise, right? Like
21:34
I don't come home with, you know, a new car without
21:38
obviously consulting with my wife, right? We
21:40
want to make the best decisions for our family.
21:42
I think the biggest misconception that goes into
21:44
that, especially when you dealing with someone
21:46
who is, you know, in a higher position or successful
21:49
is that they are a certain way, right? Like,
21:51
oh, well, you know, if your wife is in the C
21:54
suite, then, you know, she automatically means
21:56
that she's hyper aggressive and no nonsense and
22:00
hard nose and probably less sensitive. And, you
22:03
know, and those things don't have to be true
22:04
or vice versa. It's like, Oh, people will meet
22:07
my wife and you think, Oh, well, Mike, we know
22:10
that, you know, you're probably not in charge
22:12
or, you know, she's running this or, you know,
22:15
my wife's a black belt, right. And, and has been
22:18
for a long time. And so I always, when I tell
22:20
people that they're like, Oh, I know that she
22:22
can kind of beat you up. Right? So you hear all
22:24
types of things that come along with, you know,
22:26
either, and it's the same as you have a husband
22:29
who's in a, you know, a higher low position,
22:31
perceived, um, and people are always going to
22:34
assume certain things anyway. So I'm kind of
22:37
used to that, right? I, I try not to let outside,
22:40
uh, opinions, right, dictate who I am and what
22:44
I want to do, especially within my house. Nice.
22:47
our house. Oh yeah, good correction. I almost
22:51
let that go. That's my daughter, right? She constantly
22:56
is correcting me on my verbiage. Hey, so speaking
22:59
of your daughter, let's talk about your kids.
23:01
So first your daughter, who's we've just mentioned
23:03
18 and graduating from high school heading off
23:06
to college. So through these last, you know,
23:09
17, 16 years, what have you been trying to instill
23:13
in her or, you know, from what you're doing or
23:15
what your wife's doing to be that example to
23:17
help, you know, create this great path for her?
23:22
You know, one thing is I'm always talking to
23:23
her about effort, right? You can control your
23:26
effort. Also, don't let anyone stop you from
23:29
doing something you really want, right? Because
23:31
we're in a world where you see so many different
23:33
reflections or AI or social media of what this
23:37
is and what that is and how you should and shouldn't
23:39
be, right? Like, if you're passionate about something
23:42
that's something you want to obtain, then you
23:44
need to work hard at it, right? Everybody's talented,
23:47
so to speak, right? But talent isn't enough,
23:49
right? You'll have to persevere and work hard.
23:52
I've always tried to kind of stress that to my
23:54
daughter. Find your passion, but no matter what,
23:59
always put full effort into it and understand
24:01
it. you're the prize and you're the talent, right?
24:05
So whether she's going to college, yeah, she's
24:07
the talent, right? The school was lucky to have
24:09
her, whether it's, you know, a special relationship
24:12
or what have you. Those are things I've always
24:14
tried to reinforce my daughter and for her to
24:16
be herself. And if that's different than everyone
24:19
else, then that's okay, because at some point,
24:22
everyone was different and maybe got looked at
24:24
a certain way, right? But that time, that stuff
24:27
passes. That's very true. I mean, we don't want
24:30
to think about her growing up and getting married.
24:32
She's just getting to college, but down the road,
24:34
let's say 10, 20 years, we'll extend it. But
24:37
what do you hope that she looks for in that partner
24:40
that she's learned from watching you and Aaron?
24:43
I'd like to think that she can see that someone
24:45
can be her authentic self and still be everything
24:49
that's needed, whether it's a father or a husband.
24:52
And she still can be herself and love for that.
24:56
who she truly is and not who she's trying to
24:59
dictate to society norms and who she should be
25:03
and how she should act. So I think that's something
25:05
that I hope that she finds in someone, right?
25:09
I love that. That was so nice. So what's some
25:12
advice you have for men who want to be a better
25:15
partner to their wife, girlfriend? Oh gosh. I
25:20
feel like I should have also asked the women
25:22
this secretly, like unload the dishwasher and
25:26
take out the garbage that we lost. Yeah. I literally
25:28
can hear my wife's voice in the back of things
25:31
that I can do to help her out and I try to be
25:34
aware of. But I mean, honestly, I think the biggest
25:37
advice that I can give is that to always try,
25:41
right? You're going to fall down. You're going
25:43
to fail. You're going to make mistakes. Keep
25:46
trying, right? Try to get better, right? I always
25:49
want to be a better father or, you know, a better
25:52
husband and better at something that I'm doing.
25:54
Especially when you get, you know, you're blessed
25:56
with the opportunity to, you know, correct maybe
25:59
certain mistakes or better explain yourself or
26:02
your intentions, right? Because intentions versus
26:04
impact are two different things all the time.
26:07
So I think the biggest advice I gained is to,
26:09
you know, not give up and keep trying, right?
26:12
Right. No, that's a great point. And everybody
26:14
messes up and we have days where we're not great
26:17
husbands or wives or parents and that's life.
26:21
Yeah. Yeah. A lot of those days, moods and everything
26:23
else. But one thing I will do is I have no problem
26:26
apologizing, right? I apologize for my kids.
26:28
I'm sorry if I made you feel this way. You know,
26:31
this is my intent. Understand that everything
26:32
that I'm doing is coming from a place of love
26:34
and admiration. You are the best thing that's
26:37
ever happened to me. And you mean the most to
26:41
me, right? But I'm not perfect, right? Being
26:43
a parent doesn't come with a manual. Any other
26:45
parting words, thoughts or advice as we wrap
26:48
up? I would say, you know, overall, I think what
26:51
we can do better is, you know, forgive and be
26:54
able to move on. Right. I think that we got to
26:58
keep the main things the main things. Right.
27:00
And is everything else that serious and that
27:04
is that important to the grand scheme of things?
27:07
Right. We only hear what feels like a short time.
27:11
Try to keep the main thing, the main thing, and
27:14
let other stuff go. It's okay. You don't have
27:16
to forget, but you can forgive and act accordingly.
27:20
Well, great. Thank you. Thank you so much for
27:22
having me. I appreciate it. Maurice Knight. Welcome
27:25
to Loud and Lifted. Thank you so much for being
27:28
here. Today, we're going to talk about men and
27:30
the support that you guys have for the women
27:32
in your life. So let's start with talking about
27:35
your wife. Tell me about Leslie and what she
27:37
does professionally. My wife Leslie's been in
27:40
the Air Force for I think like 18 or 19 years
27:42
now. Currently, she works for the Department
27:45
of Defense, Mortuary Affairs. Prior to that,
27:50
and then coming up here soon, she'll be back
27:53
in her former position as Inspector General.
27:56
That's awesome. And you know, obviously a lot
27:58
of what we talk about in this podcast is professional,
28:00
you know, small business owners or in big corporate
28:03
organizations. And you guys live in this whole
28:05
different world being in the military and you
28:08
as well, also having a military career. Yeah,
28:12
yeah, definitely. One of us had to, so I recently
28:14
retired because one of us had to call it quits
28:17
so we can get some normalcy around the house.
28:20
Yeah. So let's talk about that first actually.
28:22
So you both have spent your entire career in
28:25
the military with crazy schedules and it felt
28:27
like one of you was deployed, what, like every
28:29
other year. You had small kids. Like, how have
28:32
you guys balanced both having these really successful
28:35
military careers and your kids? So once we both
28:39
got to the leadership level, I had just gotten
28:41
back from Iraq and we decided, you know, we both
28:46
can't have crazy successful careers and do the
28:50
things we want to do professionally at the same
28:52
time. So we made an agreement that every other
28:55
assignment, one of us would take that key assignment
28:57
and the other one would kind of take a background
29:00
role. And so we did that for a while until it
29:04
didn't work. So it worked for a little bit. But
29:06
once you reach certain senior levels in the military,
29:09
you don't have a choice but take difficult assignments.
29:13
So as things progressed, we tried our best to
29:16
do that. And then we just worked the flexibility
29:19
around each other's schedules. So fortunately,
29:22
we both worked for some amazing supervisors that
29:25
really did put family first and understood we're
29:28
only as good. at work as we are at home. So there
29:33
was a lot of exceptions for us throughout the
29:36
time and different things, but we all still continue
29:39
to work. You know, sometimes we had to, if she
29:41
was gone, I'd work and then pick up the kids
29:44
and then come home and work some more until I
29:47
was tired or vice versa. You know, she would
29:49
do the same thing. So if I was deployed, she'd
29:51
have to leave work early, pick up the kids, and
29:53
then she'd get home and kind of get back on and
29:55
finish up some things she didn't get to throughout
29:58
the day. So when she was deployed, especially,
30:02
did you ever sit back and be like, shoot, why
30:04
did I agree to this? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
30:08
You know, there's a lot of days I'd say. I wish
30:11
she would get out or what are we doing here?
30:14
I don't know how to do any of this. But I also
30:16
had a really good support network. You know,
30:18
my mom would come down here. She owned the hour
30:21
and a half away. So she'd come down and help.
30:22
A lot of friends would pick up the kids and take
30:24
them places. I even had supervisors pick up my
30:27
kids and take them places. So just to give me
30:30
a break and different time off and then. So you've
30:34
almost given that. bigger is normal than sacrifice
30:36
people do to support their wives is, you know,
30:38
you had to make changes to your career path.
30:41
And then also you had to be a single dad. Yeah.
30:46
So besides that, which is like one of the ultimate
30:48
things, how else have you supported Leslie through
30:50
the years? You know, I always say I'm her biggest
30:53
cheerleader and it really is a team effort and
30:57
selfishly, the better she does, the better we
30:59
do. So I know some people struggle with that
31:02
because there are still traditional roles. where
31:05
the wife is expected to be around the house and
31:09
keep things sane there. And the husband's expected
31:12
to go to work. But I think a lot of that's changed
31:14
throughout the years. And some marriages still
31:17
struggle with that, you know. It's always a team
31:20
effort and whatever she does and whatever she
31:23
excels in, you know, our family benefits from
31:26
it. So are you signing up for all housework and
31:29
chores and making dinner? Like, is that how this
31:31
goes now? No, I still don't like the full laundry.
31:35
At this point, you know what each person brings,
31:38
what strengths they bring to the table. So how
31:41
do you serve as that cheerleader? How do you
31:43
have that backbone support for her through the
31:46
years of her career? So in the military, I was
31:49
enlisted. I retired as a first sergeant. She's
31:51
an officer. She's a major. So I'm used to being
31:55
attached to an officer as their advisor, as a
31:58
senior NCO or senior enlisted. One of the things
32:02
that I've done, whether she likes it or not,
32:06
is I try to be a coach because not everyone has
32:10
a great advisor attached to them. So when we
32:12
talk about things at home, I try to advise based
32:15
off my experience as a senior leader and things
32:18
along those lines. I 100 % help her a lot of
32:23
things like making decisions on what the next
32:25
assignment is. And she'll say, what do you think
32:27
about this? Anything that's out there that's
32:29
going to... to improve her ability to do her
32:33
job and advance her career, I'm all over doing
32:36
it. If it means she's got to be reassigned for
32:39
a couple of years, you know it is what it is.
32:40
It only benefits us in the long run. So what's
32:42
one moment you're most proud of in her career
32:45
and watching her succeed? So she probably killed
32:48
me for telling you this story. I got back from
32:50
Afghanistan and we were talking and she wanted
32:54
to go from enlisted to being an officer. You
32:58
know to do that you got to go through a school
32:59
so we had MJ and six months after we had MJ she
33:04
had to go to this school and she had to take
33:05
a physical fitness test and Sit -ups after having
33:08
a baby is not the simplest thing to do and she
33:12
got there and You know she struggled with the
33:16
sit -ups and didn't pass when she got there and
33:18
at most schools They will send you home if you
33:20
don't pass they allowed her to stay and she came
33:23
out and She had to take her final one right before
33:27
graduation to become an officer. And I said,
33:29
I'm getting on a plane. I'm flying down there.
33:32
I'm going to do this PT test with you. And I
33:34
can't get the flight fast enough down there.
33:37
And I'm in the air while she's taking the test.
33:39
And when she gets done, she texts me and she
33:41
says, hey, I passed the entire class. Did the
33:45
sit -ups with her, ran with her. She was the
33:46
only one taking it, but they all came out and
33:48
did it with her. And that's pretty big to accomplish
33:51
something like that, you know, six to eight months
33:54
after having a child. So that allowed her to
33:57
become an officer and it's a big step, you know?
34:00
And plus, you know, a lot of these soldiers and
34:03
airmen, they're doing this at 18 to 20 years
34:06
old. You know, she's doing this after having
34:07
two kids. Right. I think it's a big step what
34:10
resilience it shows, you know, she has a commitment
34:12
to get it done and she, you know, she chased
34:16
after what she wanted and she got it. So we also
34:19
have this thing we do when you commission as
34:22
an officer, you do a first salute. So you have
34:24
to salute someone that's enlisted. So I did her
34:27
first salute as well. So I still have that. There's
34:29
a coin they give you. It's like a silver dollar.
34:32
So I still keep that. in my wallet. I love that.
34:35
All right. Let's switch gears a little bit. Let's
34:37
talk about your kids. So you're raising teenagers.
34:40
You have a, oh my gosh, soon to be senior in
34:42
a high school and a sophomore girl, and then
34:45
a son who's going to be a sophomore in high school.
34:47
So how do you guys try to be good examples or
34:51
role models to, you know, you have two different
34:53
versions, right? Like you're trying to raise
34:54
a strong girl, woman. You're trying to raise
34:56
your son to be, you know, a great future husband.
34:59
Like how do you guys think about that intentionally
35:01
when you both have these, you're both great role
35:04
models. So how do you like activate that to make
35:06
sure you're raising your kids to be like you
35:09
guys? You know, honestly, we don't think we're
35:11
doing a great job. It's not a normal family.
35:13
You know, there's a lot of families that are
35:15
single parents. And, you know, I kind of believe
35:17
when you grow up in that single parent home I
35:20
did for a while, you know, that's your expectation
35:22
is right there. You depend on your mom or your
35:24
dad. And it doesn't change that stage you're
35:27
seeing unless that parent gets married somewhere.
35:30
With our kids, they had the constant coming and
35:33
going of one parent home, another parent leaving.
35:36
And to me, looking at them and watching them,
35:39
I think that's a tougher, that's been a tougher
35:42
transition because there is no continuity. you
35:46
might have mom for this time and then you might
35:48
have dad for this time. And mom has a different
35:50
standard and dad has a different standard. So
35:53
it's tough on the kids to get to that point.
35:56
And I think for a while they really struggled
35:59
with it. Because like I said, sometimes work
36:02
has to come home with you. Is it the right answer?
36:05
It's absolutely not the right answer, but we're
36:08
fully invested in. when you're a leader, you
36:11
know, it just doesn't stop. And it's unfortunate,
36:13
but it just doesn't stop. You have you have people
36:15
that you're responsible for. So you have to take
36:17
care of them regardless of the time. And, you
36:19
know, I think our kids struggle a lot with phone
36:23
calls late at night, the different changes. So
36:26
we've had to try to put some things in a place
36:28
to minimize the impact to them. But, you know,
36:34
it's it's been a challenge. But I also having
36:37
kids that are resilient really helps. Our kids
36:41
don't complain a lot. They have learned to, unfortunately
36:46
or fortunately, they have learned to do a lot
36:49
of things on their own. So they've learned to
36:52
take care of some things. If mom was gone, Maya
36:55
would really help with MJ with his homework and
36:57
do different things along those lines. Yeah,
37:00
I was gonna say, I mean, obviously it's not a
37:02
great situation for your kids while you're going
37:04
through it, but they're both so independent and
37:07
mature and, you know, help to build their confidence
37:09
that they can do this. So it probably doesn't
37:12
feel good while you're going through it. Of course,
37:13
nobody wants their parent to go away for months
37:15
and be worried about where they are and what
37:17
they're doing. You know, I think seeing the other
37:19
side of like, hey, I was able to pull this off
37:21
when mom or dad was away. You know, we said to
37:24
the kids, you know, we've got to take a day at
37:27
a time. It's a long game. Well, really, what
37:29
the long game was that they now, they didn't
37:32
understand when they were younger, they now understand
37:35
why we did those things. So fortunately, our
37:38
kids are gonna go to college 100 % tuition free
37:41
to any college they work in the nation. And you
37:44
know, Maya, I think Maya struggled a little bit
37:46
more than MJ. She's more vocal than MJ with some
37:49
of this stuff. So she struggled a little bit
37:50
more for years. And then about last year, it
37:53
really clicked. And then this year it starts,
37:57
it's really we've noticed that change with her
37:59
as she's talking about college and picking a
38:01
place she wants to go and talking with friends.
38:03
She doesn't have to take loans. We don't have
38:05
to take loans. She doesn't have to do a lot of
38:07
things. She's not going to be, she's not going
38:09
to graduate with any debt at all unless she does
38:13
something crazy and takes a loan. But, you know,
38:14
she shouldn't even have to do that because she
38:16
has a stipend to stay in school as well. So I
38:19
think the long run might have been tough, you
38:22
know, coming through. But in the long run, it
38:24
really benefits the kids overall. Yeah, well,
38:28
that's great. And yeah, you guys deserve that.
38:30
You made some major sacrifices through the last
38:32
20 -some years. So that's pretty cool. So what
38:37
is advice that you would have for other men who
38:39
want to be more supportive of their spouses?
38:43
You know, I think it's a challenge for multiple
38:46
things. You know, sometimes guys are our hardest
38:50
critics. You know, we look at other guys and
38:53
they say just girls are caddy. Now, guys are
38:55
caddy too, especially husbands. So breaking news.
39:00
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can be caddy too, but we
39:03
can also be competitive. So sometimes it's hard
39:05
to watch, you know, certain things and want to
39:10
say something. But I would I would say. the spouses
39:15
the wife is no different than you know the guy
39:17
so like you got to kind of drop your pride and
39:20
Be cool with certain things and understand it
39:23
really is a team effort. No, it's not in even
39:25
though you're married It's not an individual
39:27
effort, you know, it's more of I think it's more
39:31
work being home full -time and trying to handle
39:33
kids and doing everything else than going to
39:35
work. I wouldn't want to be a full -time house
39:38
husband with kids at all, ever. So I would say,
39:41
you know what? You got to drop the pride and
39:43
understand the true benefits and the goals where
39:47
you're trying to get to with your family. If
39:49
you want to stay in the same spot, you're in.
39:52
And I know I have friends that work two jobs.
39:55
And just so their spouse can stay home and take
39:59
care of the house because it was a traditional
40:00
role, I think that's ridiculous. I think it's
40:02
absolutely ridiculous. Things have changed so
40:05
much over time. Dude, just drop the pride. Your
40:09
spouse is, your wife is killing this career.
40:13
Support her, get behind her, because it only
40:15
benefits you. Absolutely. That's great advice.
40:18
Thank you so much for being part of OutLifted
40:20
and thank you so much for being supportive to
40:22
the women in your life. To the men we spotlighted
40:25
today and to the many more like them, thank you.
40:27
Thank you for being steady when the storms roll
40:30
in, for making room when the dreams get big,
40:32
and for helping raise the next generation with
40:35
grit, grace, and a whole lot of love. Never underestimate
40:39
the power that support can be. Let's keep talking
40:42
about it, let's keep celebrating it, and let's
40:45
keep getting loud and lifted for the people who
40:47
make it all possible. Happy Father's Day, and
40:49
thank you to all the dads out there who are supporting
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the women in their lives.