Latest / Wellness, Actually with Emily Oster & Perry Wilson, MD / Bess Kalb's Late-Night Panic Google

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Bess Kalb's Late-Night Panic Google · Wellness, Actually with Emily Oster & Perry Wilson, MD

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: This is parent Data. I'm Emily Oster. Hello Best calv
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Hello Emily Oster. Thank you for joining me on late
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: night Panic Google.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me Emily, who I called professor
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Aster off off the recording.
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's Emily to you and everyone else who I've
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: ever encountered.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Great.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, can you introduce yourself?
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, I am Best Calb. I am a TV writer
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: and an author and a parent of two small children.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: How small are your children?
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: My kids are five and two, just turn five and
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: about to turn three.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Are they do you like? Are they good?
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: They are very good?
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: You're a fan?
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: They are very very good. Yes.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: I always like to ask that at the beginning. And
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: then somebody once was like, does anyone say that they're not?
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: And I'm not sure we have yet had anyone say
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: that they're not a fan of their children.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: I think I think it's just evolutionary, you know, I do.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: I think my children are extraordinary and the best people
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: in the world. Yes, but does every parent yes.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes we do, Yes we do.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: They're perfect and wonderful. Anyway, I'm sure you're perfect. What
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: a coincidence everyone on this call has perfect children?
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: So great?
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: Well that we have that in common. So tell me
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: your late night panic Google.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, So my late night panic Google, which I recently
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: found out horrifyingly, is the same late night panic Google
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: as my mother. Yes, oh yes, I mean we cannot
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: escape our past, we cannot escape our faith. But it
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: is finding the cities or towns where climate change will
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: have the least effect, and then a Zillow search in
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: some Michigan peninsular, like you know what I'm not. I'm
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: I'm going to gate keep it.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I don't feel like a peninsula again.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: And when I proptly said that to my mom, she
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, I went down the Michigan route, and
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: you think that you think that water source is important,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: but what you're gonna want is elevation. And of course
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: she was right, and I also that's also how I
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: found out. This is a deeply private conversation just for
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: all of your listeners, but yes it is. It is
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: finding like lists of where climate change will have the
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: least effect and then the like cheapest possible real estate
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: in that place.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: I want to unpack this, but I wanna. I want
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: to go back to the thing, to the finding that
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: it was the same as your mom's late them at
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: Panic Google, because I feel like part of becoming an
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: adult and a parent is realizing all of the ways
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: in which you said you would not be like your
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: parents and then are in fact exactly like them.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Like I remember as a.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: Kid saying that I would buy Jiff peanut butter. My
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: mom always bought the like natural stirrup peanut butter, you know,
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: And I was like, this is garbage.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: It's so you can't stir it. It's all weird.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: I was like, when I'm an adult, like I'm gonna
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: choose Jiff, like the choosy moms.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Remember that the choosy moms cho I'm gonna be a choosey.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna be a choosy mom.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna choose yep, and like lo and behold sitting
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: in my cabinet is like natural. It's like even worse
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: because I got this like nine pound tub of natural
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: peanut butter and like turn and like now I'm storing
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: it in like jam jars, like having individually repackaged it.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: So it's like it's even worse than my childhood.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: You could pour a foundation with that exactly.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: And now my daughter's like my daughter's like where's she's
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: like when my kids are I'm like, yeah, you'll wait,
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: You'll find you.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Were raised by by different moms. I was raised on
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: on jiff, and I think before school I would have
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: like a some Moors pop tart and like a head
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: off to learn killed.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: I have ever had a Smores pop tart whole life.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: This is the body that some Moors pop tart. Now
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Mount Sin I g I doctors have to deal with.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: But I shout out absolutely if I can drive any
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: business their way. But now I'm sitting here being like,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: oh my god, are you sure that melon is the
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: pre cut melon is probably? Oh god, you know, and
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: and you know you will only see like a seed
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: oil not to sound insane, but a but a no
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: filler agent organic peanut butter as I as I sit
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: here just sort of atrophying from lucky charms being in
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: my bone marrow.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: But your kids, but it's all like it's gonna be back.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: Your kids are going to be like easily eating some
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: more pop charts are out of your house.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: It basically went out the window. By the way, you know,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: there was there was only there's only so much time
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: I did that. And now I'm like eh, this gram
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: cracker is you know, from a vending machine. You're fine.
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: It's like the like with your first kid when you
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: make the baby food, and then with your second kid
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: when you're just like some off my plate, Yeah, have
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: some bad tie.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: My second kid literally his first food was kanji. That's
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: exactly which you know.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: It's a great food.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: It's a great food. Yes, I mean it was. It
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: was rice cereal, totally right. Please, Yeah, he.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Doesn't have any allergies. Great, it was good.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Another divine thank God there.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, but let's get back to your late panic Google,
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: because I feel like, actually, this is this is a
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: sort of in the space of like almost the existential
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: panic Google, which is literally anything you can do, there's
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: nothing you can do about it. You're not going to
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: buy the as you've identified on this peninsula or on
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: a hill or whatever.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: You're not doing anything.
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: And I think it's it's like, whether this particular issue
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: is on everyone's mind or not, there isn't an inherent
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: aspect of kind of these midnight fears that are most
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: of the time we cannot we cannot do anything about them. Yes,
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: you know, agreed, And it's and I yeah, it's you know, yes,
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: but then what do you do?
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, what how do.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: You how do you reconcile that I'm getting into that,
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: I'm getting into that sort of midnight godless headspace, like
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: when you just feel forsaken. I So it starts as
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: for me, the panic Google. This one specifically started as curiosity.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: The panic knew it needed to get out, and it
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: was like, just just raise the question, just raise the
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: question in her mind, like what are some what are
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: some places you know? Flooding has been in the news,
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: there have been all these horrible disasters. My kids were
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: born in la We live in New York now, but
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: my kids were born in fire season, and so it
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: felt apocalyptic. There were times we never think God had
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: to evacuate, but there were times we were, like watching
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: the air around us sort of turned purple on IQ air.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: It was it felt really high stakes and really present.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: And so this started as a like, sure, we're safe
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: in the sort of pristiniar air of New York City,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: but we don't we're safe, And it's that question and
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: then it leads to then it leads to panic because
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: the more you the more it's the rabbit hole. It's
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: the more you go down and the more you learn,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: the more you see the dangers everywhere, and it turns
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: into it goes from like curiosity to panic to obsession
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: where I'm like on Google Earth, look at looking at
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: the street view to see, like, h that house across
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: the street looks like it's actually on an incline. Well,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: there's a flash flood if I've ever seen. And my
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: husband sleeping without a without just the peaceful sleep of
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: a non Jewish person versus me with like inherited Oshkenazi trauma,
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: back up and go in the night.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: I uh, you and my mother in law. You and
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: my mother in law just got along.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: So great totally. I mean, I feel like I exist
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: because of whatever. The like pagrum version of a panic
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Google would be like like being plugged into the whisper
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: network of the Tsar's army being like, we gotta go,
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: let's get on a boat, and so that's my We've
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: got to go, Let's get on a boat.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: It does it make you feel better?
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: No, no, but it does exhaust me in a great way,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Like I find myself being kind of spent at the
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: end after the street view, and then when I compare
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: some places in Vermont, and I'm just like I'm thinking
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: of road access. Like there's a certain point where exhaustion
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: does take over, and frankly, melatonin does take over. Get
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: some CBD gummies and you know, I swear by the
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: like it's all placebo, probably, but I swear by the
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: like extra strength melatonin.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: God, that's a real that's a real thing.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I it does. It does. I feel I
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: feel the fog taking over and I and I just
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: then dreamed a dreamless sleep because I've done all of
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: my anxiety and my waking life. I think anxiety relaxes me.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: I'm finding it. This is a therapy session.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: You are a dog. No, okay, anxiety, but it's I
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: don't think it's anxiety.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: And I think it is actually very core to the
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: thing that relaxes people in this in this setting, which
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: is like it's it's almost the illusion of control.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: It's just sort of getting it out.
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: It's almost the illusion of control of like, Okay, now
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: I have like like this is a thing which I
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: need to worry about. Oh, I've like taken my fifteen
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: or twenty minutes to worry. I've like gone down the
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: rabbit hole. I worried about it. It's not that I've
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: gotten rid of the worry. It's just like I did
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: the job. The job was to worry about it.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: I worried. I did something that was related to my worry.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: I like engaged with it, and now I can go
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: I know, I can go to sleep, and I do
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: think in a deep way. That is some of what
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: people are doing when they're panic googling is kind of
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: like I'm worrying.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: I'm worrying. I'm doing the worry. That's a job I
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: have to do.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: I do it and then I can like, then I'm done,
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: I've completed my job.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: That is. Yes, it's externalizing it, it's compartmentalizing it. It
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: is like the anxious person's version of mindfulness meditation, where
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: you just sort of you get all of your worry
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: out and it's done. You're right. It's sort of like, yeah,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: it's there should be a browser just for anxious moms
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: in the middle of the night.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: That's all that's all browsers.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's literally a but why.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Goodness for you? Instagram's feeding you this. That is.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: But I think we could make a lot of money
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: if we did, like a worry Safari that just you
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: can only access it after eleven PM and before it
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: cuts you off.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: Yes, but it's like it's like only gives you like
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: twenty five minutes and then it's you on it.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: You've complete.
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: Oh we could be that when you get on and
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: it's like here help, we're gonna help you worry. And
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: then at twenty five minutes, it's like you finish, you fit,
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: and you got a little star, like you did your
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: worry for the day, like a little crown.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you go to bed because you need that. You're
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: gonna be rich.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: We're gonna be so rich. We're gonna buy the peninsula.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: We're gonna have an Elon Musk bunker resource hoard.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: I'm voting Vermont.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: By the way, Yes, I'm throwing I'm throwing people off.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, go to Michigan. It's either.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean but okay.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: But in series is actually this as a as both
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: an anxious person and as a piece of parenting advice.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: This this kind of like worry space is something that
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: comes up a lot.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: This is a reasonable technique with your kids.
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: Also if they get anxious, to explain, like you can
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: worry about this for a set time. This is like
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: a piece of advice that that uh, one of my
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: friends got at some point, Like you can tell your kid, like,
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: here's your fifteen minutes of worrying, and we're gonna like
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: sit and we're gonna worry together. We're gonna engage with
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: worrying and listening all the things. But at the end
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: of fifteen minutes, like we will be done and then
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: like we can do it again tomorrow.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: But like we don't get to worry in the other
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: times of the day because your worries get here. We've
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: made a place for them. We made them a home.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: It's so smart. It's a designated freakout time. It's so great,
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: like a padded room. It's great.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: It just needs an app.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: Okay, So if any VC funders are listening to this,
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: we'll be calling you for our app. And in the meantime,
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: I hope that everybody enjoys their their worry time.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Bess, thanks for being here.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Thank you Emily, thank you. I can't wait for our
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: to celebrate on our yacht.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Absolutely okay.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: Four