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Getting a Hot Tub for Your STR? Check This Out First · Short Term Rental Problems and Solutions

• Jeremiah Noll: Admit it you expected guests and contractors to act like you would. We were both wrong. Now you realize it's not all sunshine and five star reviews that means you're in the right place. There's a big difference between a hot tub that's a liability and one that's an asset. Today we're talking about hot tubs. Albert is trying to avoid a $20,000 mistake when choosing a good hot tub. He wants to maximize his return on investment, but keep risk in mind. That's because this is the community where we talk about the gross, awkward, and the operational messes, as well as the real strategies to help you keep going instead of quitting. And that's because you are not a quitter and this industry is somewhere where you can win. Welcome to Short-Term Rental Problems and Solutions. Let's get right into today's question. Good morning, Jeremiah. I bought my rental in Coolbaugh Township last week and applied for my STR permit. So now I'm working on getting a new hot tub. The house with a blow up hot tub and immediately found out how inadequate it is for an STR. So now I have to decide between 110 volt and 220 volt, new versus used, big brand versus unknown. And I don't want to just listen to the salesman. How many people should it fit? Is a lounger a waste of space? And where should it go? Because I don't think I want to put it in the same place as the blow up hot tub was. Thanks Albert. ⁓ Albert, I hear you. The inflatable hot tub mistake. The one that disconnects from wifi requires weird little cartridges for filtration and it shuts off when the temperatures outside reach 35 degrees or lower. It's more complicated to wrap with the lid. than a Chipotle burrito. One of my clients was in the same place and it was a nightmare that they didn't get rid of it right away. So you're making the right move. several decisions you want some guidance on and I'm here. Not necessarily as an expert, but I can tell you what I've learned over the last 10 years of dealing with hot tubs and short-term rental guests. Our objective is the highest on investment while managing risk. Is this going to be the niche of your rental? Is it going to be a hot tub with a house attached? Or is it going to be there just to check a box? What risks are you worried about that we need to manage? And what are our guest expectations? We to think about timing as well because you have just applied for your short-term rental permit and some of the costs that you might expect that are beyond just the purchase price. What makes this conversation different from generic advice that you're going to find all over the internet about what hot tub to choose is that short-term rentals are their own specialty. When we're talking about Airbnb use, there are a few things that make a huge difference in what set up to choose. One of those things is that draining the hot tub with all of its water and refilling it is much, much more common with Airbnb's than it is when you're using it personally. So most of the advice that's out there is about personal use and people would expect to drain and refill their hot tub sometimes once a year, maybe less. One, unreliable or dirty experience reverses your return on investment and ends up being your greatest liability. So if your hot tub completely fails and it's the main point of your property, then you're risking that bad review. You're risking a very expensive mistake. in sending back a credit to your guests or worrying about a review. And let's face it, your guests, your potential guests are probably not gonna read any of your reviews unless they're less than five stars. If there's a four or a three or a two star review there that says the hot tub was dirty and the host couldn't do anything about it. Now the niche that you're trying to fill is like gone. Now it's cost you money. to maintain that hot tub. And it's costing you money to compensate that guest. Another thing is marketability and revenue acceleration can cause this to be a greater investment than the real estate that it's sitting on. See the property that you bought, the short-term rental, it's the land, it's the house, it's the amenities, it's the furniture. All those things have a return on investment. And maybe that ROI is five years, 10 years, but your hot tub could be something that earns its own value in six months. Or it could be something that costs you money in the long run. So it's, it's not generic advice because we're talking about something that's likely to bring in some really good money, or it's likely to cost a lot of money and not bring anything in extra. another reason why you need STR hot tub advice is because your guests are going to do unspeakable things in your hot tub. You have to be prepared for anything. Your guests mostly know nothing about hot tubs and almost none of them understand the chemistry of your water. And those are just a few reasons why this is not your generic hot tub advice. This is why you can't just watch a video about 110 versus 220 volts and make a decision which one's going to be best for your guest. Because there's all these other parameters, there's all these other factors that you have to keep in mind when making this decision if you're going to do it right. So first, because this frames the entire conversation, are we talking about an asset that's gonna be the headliner of your rental? Or are we talking about something that you're just adding so that you show up in common searches? On Airbnb, a lot of guests will do a search for pet-friendly number of bedrooms and the presence of a hot tub. Sometimes ⁓ they don't care if there's a hot tub and it's just. nice to have that in the photos and they just it's a it's a secondary thing for them but sometimes it's the primary thing they're searching for So if you're making it the main selling point of your house, make sure you do it right. Over-engineer it. Buy something that's going to be reliable and bulletproof. At the end of the show, I'm actually going to go over some of the best hot tub setups that I've ever seen. Now, if it's just another amenity, then you have to control costs. Don't overbuy. Don't pay for things that aren't going to really bring you value. In that situation, if your main selling point of your house is that it is a lakefront property with an awesome dock, then the hot tub is really just an afterthought. There's not really as much of a point or as much of a potential return for adding in this amazing hot tub. It's really more geared towards having a hot tub and keeping that cost friendly. So what voltage to choose? Now for our listeners who are not electricians, there's 110 volts, which is considered plug and play. This is something that gets plugged into a normal wall outlet and you don't need an electrician to hook this up because it just gets plugged in. 220 volts uses the same voltage as like an oven or a dryer, an electric dryer. So it does require an electrician get involved to make sure that it's done correctly. tub, then there are some strong and cons. One pro is the prices are usually pretty good ⁓ and installation is pretty easy. Like this is as easy as it can get. In Coolbaugh Township, you are going to need a zoning permit, but those are far easier to get than a building permit. Does it save on electricity? ⁓ People debate this all the time. I don't really think it saves anything on electricity, but I also don't think it costs much more either. In my expectation and experience, ⁓ two hot tubs are built to the same level of quality, they're going to cost about the same. If one's built for 110, one's built for 220, the difference is in the heating elements capacity. It also could have a lot to do with the ⁓ voltage of the pumps. So you can have more jets, things like that. ⁓ nevertheless. ⁓ If it's just, I don't want to say in sleep mode, but if it's just maintaining a standard like 101 degrees temperature, then the lower voltage, the 110 hot tub is going to use the same number of kilowatts in order to keep that water warm as it would if it was 220. The 220 element would be on for less time. So the difference is actually in the jets. The pump has to run twice as long. while it's heating up the water for 110. That's in my opinion the only real price difference between the two for electricity usage on this one versus electricity usage on this one. The majority of your expense is going to be related to heating the water. Essentially the difference in electricity is the cost of pumping water through the filter and across the element to keep it warm. Because one element is going to get hotter, it's going to heat up the water faster and the pump doesn't have to be on quite as long. The other one, the pump has to be on, you know, almost constantly. it'll use a little more electricity from that perspective. Now the cons, ⁓ the 110 volt hot tub, it does lose about two degrees of temperature per hour in the winter time. if it's uncovered. lot of times guests ⁓ leave hot tubs uncovered and then they complain that it's too cold. Well, that's not surprising because you left it uncovered. So it's important that you have good clear cut rules for your guests so that they ⁓ this, they leave the cover on. ⁓ not just for cleanliness, it's also because it helps it retain the heat and nobody likes a cold hot tub. Now the ⁓ other con about heat loss is that even in the summertime, it loses maybe one degree per hour. Now that's up here where the average temperature in the summer is like 75 degrees. So it just being 30 degrees less than what the hot tub is supposed to stay at, it still loses temperature throughout the day. Now, another fact is that, you know, it takes about 29 hours for it to heat up from 55 degrees to a hundred degrees. So water comes out of the ground in this region at 55. if you're filling it up from your well, then you've got like 50 to 60 degree temperatures in your hot tub. And it's going to take around 29 hours for your hot tub, if it's 110 volts, to warm up that water to where people can use it. But it's not a big deal if you just have a hot water hose bib. Now, if you have a hot water hose bib and your water heater is a tank, then you're only going to have maybe 50 or 60 gallons of actual hot water. After that, you're putting cold water right through the water heater in order to put that in the hot tub, which brings it up a few degrees. Maybe you'll end up with something that's around 75, but your hot tub being 110 is still going to take a while to heat that up. So something to consider. is instead of getting a 220 volt hot tub, you could upgrade your water heater to a tankless. That's only possible if your water heater is on an exterior wall. Otherwise you might have to reroute some plumbing and things like that. That's a whole another conversation. If you have a tankless water heater, then your water heater will continue to heat the water regardless of the number of gallons it goes through. So that is one way to avoid this big problem of how long it takes for the water to heat back up you can just put hot water back into the hot tub. I do this at three of my properties and you know, one of them has 110 volt hot tub and it's perfect for that. Another downside is that there's barely any support for these models. Now, if you do buy them from like a local dealer or something like that, then you do get a little bit more support and that's a good thing, right? generally speaking, when we're talking about these ⁓ and play hot tubs, ⁓ not always bought new. Sometimes they're bought ⁓ ⁓ or from Home Depot. There's no support structure there. Even warranties that they come with are very difficult to get anybody out there for repairs for. ⁓ it exists, but it takes time. And when we're talking about short-term rentals, you don't really have time. You don't really have a week or two weeks for somebody to get out there to fix your hot tub. You need something done like as soon as possible. So it's best to not actually compare the value of this warranty versus that warranty, at the end of the day, ⁓ you're losing a thousand dollars or $2,000 in bookings, you might just get a new hot tub. Right. So, ⁓ The lack of support, I think it can be, you know, kind of written off, but, the 110 volt hot tubs also tend to lack some of those impressive features that guests are sometimes impressed by, right? Like the waterfall or like the number of jets. Like I've got one hot tub that has like 95 jets. That's a ton of jets. And then another one that's got like 10. So one has a smaller pump. So those 10 jets are fed with sufficient pressure where the other one with 95 jets requires three separate pumps. That way each of those jets has enough pressure. And even then it doesn't even seem like it's quite enough, but you can definitely overdo it with the jets. I don't actually see the point. I think it does look cool to have shiny jets. ⁓ It's really more about that wow factor, I think. So the way the hot tub looks, the way it looks at your property, is actually, think more important than the number of jets. The other downside, ⁓ the control panel can be a little bit confusing. Typically on these lower voltage units, you've just got four buttons and there's a temperature up, a temperature down, a jets and a light. And, you know, if guests push two buttons, they end up changing the mode. It can be confusing how to get back. You've got to have your manual somewhere on property. If you end up buying this thing used, you're probably not going to get a manual. ⁓ You have to think through those kinds of things as well. There's some value in keeping it simple, but there's not a whole lot of value in not knowing how to fix your thing. last thing is the filtration. So hot can go into different Sometimes they have filters or very small filters. ⁓ Like the one that you're replacing Albert, is a inflatable hot tub and it comes with these little like pucks and that's the filter and you've got to replace those like every week. They're not as good as what we're talking about in most hot tubs. Most hot tubs have like a five inch filter. Sometimes I've seen smaller ones. ⁓ I would opt for the ones with the bigger filters, the ones that are going to last a little bit longer, the ones that are going to allow more airflow over the element. Things like that I think are very important. now the pros and cons of a 220 volt hot tub. ⁓ of the pros is that it heats up pretty fast. In four to six hours, you can go from well temperature like 55 degrees all the way up to 100 degrees and the guests can use it. Which means it requires to be drained and refilled before a guest arrives, usually it's okay by the time they finish dinner. Typically these 220 volt hot subs are the ones that have all of those higher end features. They've got multiple pumps, many jets, and sometimes they even have waterfalls, which I think is just cool to look at. thing is larger capacity. So once you get into those like six, seven, eight person hot tubs, you're not talking about 110 volts anymore. You're talking about something that's 220 and that's because of the number of jets. That's because of the requirement for the pumps and the capacity to run water over a filtration system. And you tend to get more user-friendly controls. Sometimes it's ⁓ like a touch screen. sometimes the filters are like twice as big. So there's a lot more capability with a 220 volt hot tub. ⁓ You generally don't find that in the 110. So the cons, the downsides is that this requires a building permit. So building permit ⁓ requires an inspection. That's the difference between the zoning permit and a building permit. So in Coolbaugh Township, they're going to use Bureau Veritas and they will come out. They'll make sure that you have bare ground wire that's in a ring around the hot tub under the ground. ⁓ And this is just to current electrical code. They're going to make sure there's a disconnect. They're going to make sure that conduit running from the disconnect over to the hot tub. They want that conduit to be dug inches into the ground. They want the disconnect to be one that's made for a hot tub. it has a GFCI. It has to be the same size as the breaker that's in the panel, ⁓ which would like a double pole 50 or a 40, depending on the manufacturer specifications. ⁓ you have have the original instruction for the house. ⁓ this can be in PDF format and the easiest way to find this, if you don't have one is with AI, you know, you just put in the information that you can find on the hot tub. and you ask it for the instruction book, it'll usually be able to bring up something like that. That's the easiest way to find it. But nevertheless, your whole building permit requires multiple steps. So there's an inspection, you have to apply for it, costs money, but you also have to have an electrician do all of these different things. And that's usually gonna run you $1,500 to $2,000, depending on the complexity and the length of wire, you're talking about putting something on a deck ⁓ ⁓ don't to have a trench, it's a little bit easier. It's also pretty close to the house. You can have your disconnect there. ⁓ So there's, a lot of things to consider, but if you're going to go with that bigger one, you don't need an on-demand water heater. ⁓ On-demand water are nice because then your guests don't run out of hot water, but they also require more, a little bit more maintenance, ⁓ annual flushes, on and so forth. So there's pros and cons to all these different things and parameters. If you'd like to email me directly and go over some of these things, I can talk back and forth and we can help figure it out together. But nevertheless, the idea here is this is a downside, is if you're gonna go with the bigger hot tub and get 220 volts, you are gonna require this permit. And there's a lot of steps for the permit. You should just have an electrician do it, take care of things. Do not have a regular handyman do it. You'll probably fail your inspection. and then have to pay for a re-inspection after those repairs are made. The other side is these are more expensive. You get what you pay for, So these more expensive hot tubs, ⁓ sure they come with better insulation. There should be a better, more efficient system for them. The lid should be a little bit thicker. ⁓ should be built with higher quality materials. ⁓ seen some of these budget models that come with like panels that are constantly cracking and breaking ⁓ ⁓ poor insulation. So you end up spending a lot more money over the life of the hot tub and electricity because they're poorly insulated. So your total cost of ownership of that hot tub also has to do with maintenance calls. It also has to do with the quality of filtration because if it can be filtered better, then you don't have to refill it as often. It also has to do with the insulation quality because of cost of electricity. So the long-term cost of your hot tub can be paid for a lot earlier on by getting a better quality hot tub. So that's something to consider. also, if you have a local dealer, then they may come out for all those warranty issues. They might have good response time. You're going to want to judge that based on the reviews of that dealer. Now, ⁓ another downside to more expensive units is they're more difficult to replace. So if it's determined that your hot tub is just something that needs to be replaced with a new one, finding another one with the same features can be tricky. And if you bought one that was used the first time, you're probably not going to be able to buy one that's used the second time. So the last thing is that there is a lot more water usage. So if you're on a well, like you have to think about, well, I'm going to need 500 gallons every time this thing gets to get refilled. The smaller hot tubs typically only require 200, 300 gallons. But once you get the really big ones, you need a lot of water. And then all that water has to be heated up each time. So there's a cost for that as well. So it's not just about the water that's coming out of your well. It's also about the limited capacity that your well has. It's also about, you know, heating all of that up and so on and so forth. So next let's get into where to put this. So your highest return on investment is always gonna be an outdoor open layout. You know, people really like that open layout inside a house where you got your kitchen, your dining area, your living room all together. Well, having a private yard where everything is within view of one another, it promotes togetherness. It means that you can have one hero photo for your listing where all of those things are located in one picture. Instead of having to have three photos to describe all the outdoor amenities, you can actually have just one hero photo that shows the hot tub with the fire pit and the grill and the view right there in the background. And that is far more valuable from a marketing perspective. than having these things all put apart from each other. I've actually got a client right now who I think is making a terrible decision in where they're going to place their hot tub. Now at the end of the day, I said my piece, I gave them my input and I gave them a reasons, but it's their property. They get to do what they want. they've actually a gorgeous porch outdoor furniture on it. And it's been the main selling point of the house for forever. That porch and the fire pit are right near each other. There's awesome lighting. It's a really cool hangout spot at nighttime. And that's the perfect place to put their hot tub. But they don't want to put their hot tub within view of the driveway. And they want to put it in an area that's a little easier to get to without walking over hardwood floors. So I get it. I get their reasons. they're going to make a lot more money if they put it up where the fire pit is, up where that porch is, because then all of their outdoor amenities are in the same place where they're going to get instead is Not that. They're putting it on the other side of the house. You have to take stairs and it's like you have to walk kind of far from where the hot tub is going to go. You cannot see the fire pit. You can't see the front porch and you don't even have more privacy because you're actually much, much closer to another house. So you've got a lot less privacy. You've got it further from the other amenities of the property. And in order to market this, I'm going to have to take a photo of just the hot tub by itself and a photo of the rest of the yard, which again was the main selling point for this house for a long time. If they had put everything together, then I could have taken photos of just that one area and it would have been much more valuable, much more marketable. And that would have made my job a little bit easier as the property manager. But at the end of the day, I'm managing somebody else's property. So I don't get to make that decision for them. They chose which hot tub to use on their own. They choose where to put it on their own. And if I stopped managing this property, they're the ones who have to deal with it. But keep in mind too, that this property is for their personal use. The rentals is kind of a secondary purpose. If this was purely an investment property, they probably would have gone with my recommendations and just put it where I wanted it to be. Because then they would have been looking at Well, this is a $10,000 install. How long is it going to take for us to make our $10,000 back? And the answer with my recommendation is maybe six months. The answer with what they're going with is maybe 12 months, maybe two years. So they're just not looking at the same way a property manager would, but they listened and they heard my point of view and they still want to put it there. That's okay. I think that where you put your hot tub it should be. at least near all of your other things. So your fire pit should be there, your deck should be there, all of your outdoor amenities, everything that brings people together should all be in the same area. ⁓ One of my most successful rental properties used to have the backyard was the most private area and that's where the fire pit was. But the hot tub was in the deck and the deck was only in the front yard. And I didn't wanna go to the work of building another deck on the back of the property, although that probably would be valuable. It was just too much budget-wise at the time. So instead I moved that fire pit to the front yard and people actually use it now. Back then they were using the grill, they were using the deck, they were using the hot tub, but they weren't using the fire pit. It's like it was this amenity that they just kind of forgot about and they never actually went to and used. So by putting it in the front where everything else was, it actually got some use. And the same thing is true for your hot tub. If it's just out there in the middle of nowhere, then people aren't using all those amenities or are, but they're a lot more separated, a lot more spread apart. And not so much value in that. Think about the parents today, right? They're all helicopter parents. They want to be relaxing and enjoying their time, but they also want to be able to keep an eye on their kids. So if there's a fire at the house and a fire pit, then they feel obligated to sit within view of that fire to make sure that nobody's doing something wrong. Like little kids make mistakes sometimes. Sometimes they're just running around the fire pit and they trip and fall and they could get burned. Now a helicopter parent is not going to be able to go enjoy themselves in the hot tub knowing that there's fire going on. which means that you're now limited to one family activity at a time. And down by the fire pit, there's nothing but a couple of chairs. So if mom and dad are gonna enjoy the hot tub, what is there for the kids to do? Watch TV. They're not like sitting in front of the fire. They're not making s'mores. They're not doing anything outdoors. They're just playing in the grass maybe. So my advice to those homeowners that are putting everything apart from each other is maybe start moving some of those other things to where you want the hot tub to be. Maybe cover up the fire pit that's there. Cause in this situation it's actually dug into the ground and it's got a stone patio. that all up and abandon it and then put a new fire pit down near the hot tub That would be that would be one way to do this But they're also increasing their installation costs by making it so remote Because now you can't get all the different material there in order to create the pad and everything else that brings us into what to it on So your hot tub needs to be completely level. And typically if there's already concrete or there's already a deck there, those are both not level. And the reason for that is because they're not supposed to have puddles. They're not supposed to get water that stays and sits on them. hot tub though needs to be level. So there's four different places people will put a hot tub. One is on a concrete pad. One is on patio pavers, like on the ground. Another one's on bed crushed stone. And the last one is on a deck or in a deck. So there's benefits ⁓ and downsides to all of these different approaches, but it comes down to, ⁓ in opinion, your location, ⁓ where want to put it, ⁓ and accessible all of those different things are. If your deck ⁓ is feet above the ground, then you can actually get down there and you can add a couple more footers. You can reinforce the deck. and you can make it so that your hot tub can actually be supported by the deck adequately. Whereas if your deck is like two feet off the ground, then you're actually gonna have to pull up all the decking in order to get underneath it in order to maybe secure it a little bit better. So if it is only two feet off the ground, then the better option is actually to reframe your deck and leave a space for the hot tub, put a concrete pad on the ground. That way it's recessed into the deck a little bit and you don't have to reinforce the deck, you just have to reframe it. But all these things require permits. So you might wanna go that route, you might not. I know I did it. The one thing to consider if you're going to put it in the deck is accessibility of service. See, you have to be able to get to the control panel side for regular maintenance. This is what you have to open up in order to troubleshoot things with the warranty. If there is an error code flashing, you have to be able to get in there. So if you build the deck right next to it, you're not going to be able to get in that control panel. The other thing is if they ever have to take it out and put a new hot tub in, it has to be able to be taken out of that space. emptied and then lifted out of that spot. So ⁓ I did at my house, because I did this, I put a concrete pad on the ground the deck and I reframed the deck around the hot tub. But I left a three foot by ⁓ seven foot in the deck ⁓ and did framing and everything. It's a little bit difficult to explain, but it's a section of the deck so that if I ever have to service this, I can actually screw in a couple handles and me and one other person can lift this section out and place it back on the deck. And then we can get down with the hot tub and we can actually work on it. This also makes it far easier to get that thing out of there. So another thing to consider is the comfort of guests. So your guests are going to most likely be in their bathing suit, no shoes on, walking over to the hot tub, sometimes with a towel on or whatever. So you want to make sure that there's a way for them to get to the hot tub that's clean, meaning like on stones that are free of debris. If they're walking through grass or they're walking across sand, both of those things are going to end up in your hot tub, which is going to cost you in additional maintenance and cleaning and things like that. So you want to avoid sand and grass. Another thing that I don't like walking on is bare driveway gravel. So if you do put this on regular gravel, you're still going to want there to be something for guests to step on that's nice and smooth and flat. That's not like rocky and hard on their feet. Cause otherwise it's just going to hurt. They could use flip-flops. could do all kinds of things, but let's face it. Your guests are just going to walk barefoot to and from the hot tub anyway. So another thing that you should keep in mind. is the logistics of snow. So if your hot tub is all the way like 50 feet from the house in the yard, that might be a great spot for privacy reasons, but you've got to think through ⁓ what's going to happen when there's two feet of snow on the ground. You know, like I could give the guests a shovel, but are they going to complain that they have to use the snow shovel in order to get to the hot tub and back? Same thing with cleaners. They need to be able to get to the hot tub and get all the way around the hot tub. And if they have to shovel a pathway, they're probably going to charge you extra for that service. putting it all the way out there might be troublesome. Another really good thing to think about at this stage is your hot tub cover. So if you make it difficult for your hot tub cover to be taken off and put back on, then it's probably not going to get put back on. And if you're losing two degrees per hour when it's uncovered, then this is even more important. So I highly recommend having a lift, having an apparatus so that they can flip over the hot tub and lift it up to where it's not laying on the ground. It's not on the grass. It's not being kicked and it's not being dented and damaged or stepped on. If it's just lifted up and out of the way, then it's actually an opportunity for it to drain. You know, a lot of times that styrofoam gets filled with water. So it's an opportunity for it to drain and it's nice and clean and it's easy to put back on because you just pull it right back onto the hot tub and flip it back over. And now it's closed. This is going to promote better hot tub health, longevity, energy efficiency, and a lot of other things. So next you did ask about things that are new versus things that are used. So some things to consider, if it's used, it has to be moved twice. So you've got to get it out of somebody's yard or out of their house ⁓ and you've to get it into yours. you can get refurbished and those ones usually come with installation and delivery, but. You know, most of the best prices are on people who don't know what their hot tub is worth. They don't know the value of their hot tub. They just bought a house and they don't want it. So they're selling it. They put it up for 200, 500, 800 bucks and they don't realize that it was like a $10,000 hot tub and that only a couple of years old. Now they might not know this, but the chances are ⁓ they list it for $500, and people see the value in it, probably getting a hundred messages about it too. So if you're going to buy something used, you have to think about the logistics of how to get it, how quickly you can get it. You're going to have to pay somebody cash, things like that. So it's going to be a lot more easy for you to just buy something like this with like a dealer or to buy it new, have it shipped to your property, things like that. ⁓ The next thing to think about is it's useful life. Now, usually after a hot tub is installed, I don't know, maybe it's an $8,000 hot tub. After it's installed. You can't really sell it for $8,000. I've seen people trying to sell it for six, but usually they end up getting four or less for a used hot tub. it's because it was used, it was plugged in, it was in operation for a little while. So usually you're not going to be able to get 75 % of its value, which means ⁓ that it's at your house, if you bought it new, you're also losing all that value. But as the original owner, you've got the warranty on everything else. Another thing to consider is buying a used hot tub. Was it inside or was it outside? Outside hot tubs, they can get mice. They can get little nests growing in there. ⁓ There can be other types of damage from the sun. There can be discoloration. You might need a new cover. There's a lot of things to consider with outdoor hot tubs. With indoor hot tubs though, like a friend of mine actually has a 17 year old hot tub that is still running. because it was kept inside for its whole life. It was bought brand new, it put inside of a sunroom and it's been at that rental for 17 years. So like you can find a lot more useful life out of something like that. ⁓ I actually have a hot tub that I bought used and it was indoors for four years and then it was bought by this gentleman who had it outside for one year and decided to sell it. He sold it to me and I ended up buying it and putting it outside. So it's been outside now for like four years. So we're at eight years now, we're approaching the end of its useful life. I need to budget for replacement, but because I put it into the deck based on the size of that specific hot tub, now when it comes to replacing it, I've got to find another one that's similar dimensions that'll fit in that space. You see the other logistical challenges that go with this? If I was going to build something custom, like building the deck around the hot tub, I should have got one that would have a longer useful life. I'm putting it outside and everything else. So a lot of things to consider here, as you can tell. The last thing about new versus used the service network and the warranty. If you get something new, you might have a good warranty, you might have a good service network. Now there's limited value to that because you might be missing one or two reservations if this thing is out of order. But, know, ⁓ there some value if you can get a good service out there that can take care of it. ⁓ The next thing you asked about is size. So you didn't though tell me what your guest avatar is, like the kind of guests that you're trying to get after. if your guest avatar is a couple, then I recommend going with a two person to a four person hot tub. The the better. If your guest avatar is like multi-generational 12 plus guests, then skip the lounger and go for seating capacity. Look for things that are like six to eight people that you can put in one large hot tub. because you are trying to get a lot of people together there. Focus on your ideal guests and what they would want and then go with that. So now lastly, I did promise I would get to this, the best hot tub setups I've ever seen. These are like ideals. It's things that you can maybe get to if you're off at this point where you're still thinking putting in the hot tub. And if it's going to be the primary focus of your rental, then these are some things that you're going to want to do. So in my opinion, what guests are after when they're booking a house in a mountain market is that the hot tub is in a spot that's both connected and disconnected. So they want privacy from the outside, right? But they want personal interior connection. So like the other people that they're with, they wanna be with them. They wanna be near them. So part of that activity. So that would mean that it's away from the neighbors, but also away from the noise. part of the outdoor activities are things like the view. ⁓ it's a lakefront property, you wanna be able to see the lake from there. But also if not, then you wanna be able to see the fire pit. If there's a fire pit, the grill shouldn't be too far away from it. All the outdoor seating and lounging should be within view of the hot tub because it's about togetherness, right? so I was down in near Camelback and there was this cozy little house and it was on the stream, ⁓ which is a very nice stream. the hot tub was on the deck ⁓ overlooking the stream. It was the best spot for viewing this stream. ⁓ Some things that made this such a great spot ⁓ is that it was only steps from the sliding glass door. And it was the best spot on the property for viewing the stream and listening to it. There was an incredible amount of privacy. This house was surrounded by rhododendron those bushes that give you privacy round. And from the fire pit, you could see the hot tub and from the hot tub, could see the fire pit. And the grill only about 12 feet from the hot tub. The outdoor seating was all right there. The outdoor dining space was right there. and this hot tub was sized for three people. It had two seats and one lounger. So an incredible setup in my opinion. Now there are some ways that this could have been better because this is a little cabin for one couple. ⁓ If had two loungers instead of two seats and one lounger, it would have been a better hot tub. If there a hot water hose bib and an on-demand water heater, that would also be better. Even just for energy efficiency. there was a shelf nearby where you could put your beer down. or your iced tea, that would have made this a little bit better. And if there was a lift for the hot tub cover, that would have been ideal. Now the only way I can think to make that setup even better would have been if there was like a sun room that it could sit inside of and still have all of those views and a sliding glass door right off the hot tub that you can walk out into the rest of the yard. all of those things would have just been amazing and game changers. But in that situation, that hot tub is set up to be the main focus, the main purpose and reason why somebody is going to rent that house. is because of the hot tub and the stream. So what they're actually renting is the hot tub. What it happens to also have is some beds and a shower and a bathroom and a kitchen. And it's located in a spot that's really accessible to certain amenities like, you know, Camelback, the ski area. little bonus, ⁓ second best hot tub I have ever seen is inside a pool house. This is like a pole barn style pool house. So the ceilings are like 16 feet high and it's indoors and it's heated right so you're never cold you're never exposed to the rain or the weather so this thing can be used year-round in a lot of comfort The other thing is like it is a pole barn style pool house, but there's two different levels of windows all the way around. So you still have all the views of the yard that you want to. There's tons of privacy at this property the property is sitting on 10 acres. So in that situation, all the outdoor activities can be seen from the hot tub. That's the grill, the pool, the fire pit, the playground, and this massive yard that people tend to play a lot of soccer in. And because it was a large hot tub and there was a pool right next to it, you could actually pump water right from the pool into the hot tub. Now that was not necessarily beneficial in this situation because the hot tub was bromine and the pool was chlorine. And when you heat up the pool water, the chlorine tends to burn off a little faster. So that's the reason for them to choose the bromine. Choosing bromine versus chlorine is something that you should discuss with the person who's going to be maintaining your hot tub. If you're the person who's going to be maintaining your hot tub, Then I recommend bromine, but anyhow, ⁓ could this be better? Yes. In fact, it could. If there was a nice shelf nearby where you can put down your drinks, that would have made it better. it was a larger capacity, then that hot tub would have been better too, because it's only a six person hot tub. If had an eight or a 10 person hot tub there, that would have been, ⁓ you more ideal for that situation. ⁓ also there was no hot water hose bib. So when that hot tub has to be. ⁓ emptied and refilled, it's a bit of a challenge because now you have to empty the water outside and you've got to fill it up with hose bib from cold water. So could this have been a little bit better? Yeah. But I've never actually found a perfect hot tub setup, but I have found some that are just incredible. ⁓ them can be like the second reason why somebody's booking your property or can be the primary reason somebody's booking your property. If it's your primary reason, like if this is the one thing that you're putting into your property that you're investing into, then I highly recommend getting a top of the line model, something that's very energy efficient, something that has a good service network nearby, because this thing has to be very reliable it has to be like high end. So like the photographs of it need to be really attractive. And so like, you know, multiple lights around it and needs to look good with your landscaping. You've got to think about your landscaping as well. The lights, how it's going to look at nighttime, all these different factors are things that you should be considering. If this is going to be the primary purpose and focus of your vacation rental. But Albert, if you've got a house that's like lakefront and you're, you know, putting a hot tub there, think the people are booking your house because of the lake. They're not necessarily booking it because of the hot tub. In that situation, you want to be able to show up in search results. In which case, you know, you can put in hot water hose bib, a 110 hot tub that's made for four people and you can still, you know, check off that box. Most of your guests are going to know nothing about hot tubs. They don't really know which ones are impressive, which ones aren't. They don't know the difference between, you know, 220 and 110. And they certainly don't understand your water chemistry. so this kind of that we are talking about today is actually the reason I got into short-term rental property management. It's something I love talking about, something I love educating people about. And these are the kinds of challenges that no one talks about when they sell the dream of easy passive income. But they're exactly the kinds of problems that make or break your operation. If you've got a situation you want to share, please email me info @ galvanizedmanagement.com or reach out by giving us a call. Your problem might be the next one I break down and chances are you'll help a lot of other hosts in the process too. If this episode helped you, then share it with another host who's in the trenches. Like and subscribe too, because that helps us reach more people organically. That's how we make this industry better. I'd also love to see you follow us on TikTok at Galvanized Investments, Facebook and YouTube at Galvanized Management. Until next time, stay steady, keep learning and keep building something real. This is Short Term Rental Problems and Solutions.