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Food Addiction · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:03
  You're listening to Why we do what we do. Welcome to Why we do
• 0:16
  what we do. I am your food loving host Abraham and I am your
• 0:21
  tasty host Shane. Where a psychology podcast. We talk about all of the
• 0:25
  things that people do, and for the longest run in the history of this
• 0:29
  podcast, we have stuck to the same general topic. Now for many weeks
• 0:33
  we've been talking about addiction. Look at us go. Yeah, it's been
• 0:37
  super enlightening and hopefully as y'all are listening to this, you have gained some
• 0:41
  new perspective, maybe some new thoughts, some new ideas, or maybe just
• 0:45
  the general interest in studying this stuff a little bit more because it is pretty
• 0:48
  pretty complex. I think, Yeah, I completely agree. I like that.
• 0:52
  I feel like it's been I've learned a lot. I feel like it's
• 0:55
  been interesting. I've been really proud of the work we've done on these topics
• 1:00
  because it's I think we got to bring the sort of level of both science,
• 1:03
  skepticism and humanism that is endemic to what we try to do as a
• 1:07
  podcast to a topic that I think is complicated and difficult and affects an enormous
• 1:14
  amount of people that are out there so hopefully you've been with us on this
• 1:17
  journey, and if not, you're joining us for the first time. Welcome.
• 1:19
  And I always like to say at the beginning of these particular episodes that
• 1:23
  although these are themed around the same topic of addiction, we do specifically plan
• 1:29
  to have them be able to stand on their own. So if you have
• 1:32
  missed them up to this point, you're not gonna not understand what we're talking
• 1:37
  about. Will probably reference those previous episodes. It turns out we've been doing
• 1:40
  that a lot. Yeah, and I do recommend that you go check them
• 1:42
  out, but as I was saying, I don't think that you need them
• 1:45
  in order to understand what we're talking about today. This is not like a
• 1:49
  multi part series. It's just that we felt we have so much to explore
• 1:53
  in this topic that we wanted to just dedicate space to it for a while.
• 1:57
  Yeah, exactly each topic that we covered and this is not going to
• 2:00
  be an exhaustive list of stuff too. This series is not going to be
• 2:04
  exhaustive, but each topic that we've covered has deserved its kind of own spotlight
• 2:07
  around just a topic itself and unpacking it and giving it kind of the discussion
• 2:13
  that it needed, Yeah, precisely. So anyway, if you are joining
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  us on the day that those publishers, then I'd like to wish you happy
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  Bitcoin Pizza Day, which is definitely a day that needs some explanation, but
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  we're not going to do that now. We're just going to move on.
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  Yeah, good luck with that. It's Canadian Immigrants Day as well, and
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  Emergency Medical Services for Children Day that seem is very important. Yes, It's
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  Harvey Milk Day in California. Interesting, not the kind of milk that you
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  drink. Nope. It is International Day for Biological Diversity. That one is
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  fantastic. Definitely a huge fan of that. Yeah, I love that one
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  for sure. It's National Maritime Day as well, so for those of you
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  who are you know, boters. Yeah, it is National Solitaire Day for
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  those of you who are voters or for those of you who like card games.
• 3:00
  I love that too. It's National Vanilla Pudding Day, which, you
• 3:04
  know, I think that vanilla doesn't get the credit deserves. It's a pretty
• 3:07
  decent flavor, it is. It's really good, and it's in so many
• 3:10
  things like it makes it just makes things better, you know, It's like
• 3:15
  it's it's almost like salt, and that like you don't like salt just helps
• 3:21
  make everything better. But vanilla you actually could eat on its own and is
• 3:23
  good. You probably wouldn't want to just eat salt on its own, right,
• 3:27
  right exactly. It is Sherlock Holmes Day for you, sir Arthur Conan
• 3:31
  Doyle fans, and certainly not a Moriarity day. You know, we don't.
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  We don't like that guy as far as that think. It's right.
• 3:38
  It's World Goth Day, so get your hot topic gift cards out. It
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  is Healthcare Documentation Integrity Week as a critically important topic, and I'm I'm thinking
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  maybe we just do that all the time instead of just as week. Yes,
• 3:53
  yeah, we should do it all the time. It's National Safe Boating
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  Week, so for those of you who are on maritime Day, then just
• 3:59
  make sure you're also being safe while you're in a boat. Yeah, all
• 4:01
  week long. It is National une cycle Week, so one cycle for you,
• 4:09
  single cycle. And it's also National Backyard Games Week, so hopefully there's
• 4:14
  a lot of corn hole tournaments going on this week. You know, you
• 4:17
  could play board games in your backyard and then they could still be a backyard
• 4:20
  game. That's true. We should do that more often, could you might?
• 4:24
  Well, you can't play Monopoly in a windy place unless you're using credit
• 4:28
  cards. Well you shouldn't play it anyway. So anyway, we are going
• 4:31
  to get to our topic at hands today, which has nothing to do with
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  any of those holidays. We do like to share them because we think it's
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  fun and an acknowledgment of the day on which this publishes. And again,
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  if you're joining us for the first time, welcome. We're so happy to
• 4:45
  have you here. If you like to support us, at the end of
• 4:47
  this discussion, I will talk more about ways that you can do that.
• 4:49
  But really quickly, you can leave us a rating and review, join us
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  on Patreon, subscribe like, share us with a friend, pick up some
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  merch You can start a center to treat different addictions and call it why we
• 5:02
  do what we do, why we don't do what we do, something like
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  that, why we don't do what we did anymore? There you go,
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  and then just put our sticker on your lego or something. Anyway, I'll
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  talk more about those at the end of this discussion. Today we've been talking
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  about behavioral addictions and we're continuing that part. So we had originally started this
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  discussion, or these series of episodes, largely focused on chemical type addictions like
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  drugs and alcohol, that sort of thing. That's not to say that we
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  weren't talking about topics that were relevant to non chemical addictions, but we have
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  since sort of moved to talking more about some of the what you might call
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  behavioral addictions. Also you might refer to these, and we'll talk about that
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  today. I'm sure is behavioral excess, basically the repertoires that happen at a
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  frequency that is so high that it starts to become problematic. And we've talked
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  about gambling, We've talked about sex, and today we're talking talking about food.
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  I think this episode deserves a fair kind of disclaimer that I think people
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  generally have a pretty complicated relationship with food, and there are lots of ways
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  that manifests. And so just to kind of prepare everybody, we are going
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  to be talking about food and relationships with food and what that looks like.
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  So just if this is not something that's a comfortable topic for you, by
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  all means, turn it off or you know, skip around if you want
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  to. But we try to keep it light and we try to kind of
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  get into definitions and some science behind this, and specifically what we're going to
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  talk about is food addiction, but eating disordered and disordered eating in general is
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  going to come up quite a few times as we talk about this. Yeah,
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  good point, all right, So let's unpack the background here on this.
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  Yeah, so food addiction or eating addiction. Sometimes you'll see those terms
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  that are used interchangeably. This is classified as a behavioral addiction categorized by compulsive
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  eating, usually related to high fat, high sugar, or high salt foods.
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  So you'll see kind of those three things come up quite often. But
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  you'll see in relation to the term food addiction that will come up. So
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  not a lot of people who are addicted to like eating kale or uncooked onions
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  or something. We are going to talk about that. Actually, okay,
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  great, Yeah, Now I think it is important to clarify the difference between
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  food addiction and those other food related disorders or eating related disorders that someone might
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  experience. I think you might be hearing this and think about things like binge
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  eating for example. This does refer to episodes of this sort of uncontrollable eating,
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  just consuming, consuming, consuming, NonStop. That is I think a
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  definitely a discussion that deserves episode length or multi episode length treatment and discussion.
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  But we are not talking about binge eating as it relates to food addiction or
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  eating addiction. And then also you'll see the term disorder eating. So the
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  reason I put these two in here in the notes is because a lot of
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  times when you're looking up food addiction, these two come up as like kind
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  of primary examples is people eating too much or they have a disorder eating.
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  And when I say disorder eating, what I'm referring to is a variety of
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  disorders that relate to eating behavior or food related behavior. And this can include
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  compulsive eating, self induced vomiting, chronic restraint eating, the use of diet
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  pills, emotional eating, night eating, and secret food concocting, which specifically
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  refers to when people combine what they describe as embarrassing food combinations, like pineapple
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  and pizza, like pineapple, there you go, or like somebody mentioned,
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  like chocolate covered pickles. Somebody mentioned, oh, peanut butter and onion sandwiches
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  like stuff like that. That. People are like kind of like weird about,
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  they feel weird about, they feel guilt about. That's one of the
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  things they talked about people who like the toothpaste and orange juice combination type of
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  things, which, yeah, there's probably exactly one person out there, because
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  that is the worst I when I was growing up used to like to put
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  cheese doritos on my peanut butter and jelly sandwich. But I feel like that
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  was nice. Sure I could see it. Yeah, So I want to
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  come back to when we did our first discussion on sex addiction and we were
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  starting to unpackt behavioral disorders more generally, we sort of lumped them or further
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  broke them down, if you will, into categories of sort of biologically necessary
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  behaviors like eating, like sex that can be done to excess, and then
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  there's the sort of biologically unnecessary disorders like gambling or other, I mean other.
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  I think there's plenty that we could even think of that sort of look
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  like addiction. There's like exercise addiction, like those type of things right right,
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  where you have something that you don't actually need to do to stay alive,
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  but you obviously could do. And that sort of where I think there's
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  a utility there because there's something just I think inherently important about understanding our relationship
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  to biologically necessary processes as it relates to something like addiction, because we do
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  it all the time, because we kind of have too, or like we're
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  biologically prepared to do so in such a way that it's almost like we absolutely
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  have to. And so, in keeping in line with what we know about
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  addiction, food addiction again implies that there is a dependency, and we do
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  depend on food and it's not problematic because it is necessary for our survival,
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  right, But in this case, it's usually like a dependency on specific foods
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  and as you had mentioned, sort of those very highly palatable foods high in
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  fat, heind sugar, very very tasty if you will, like a cake
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  addiction, yes, yes, or chips or popcorn or something that's like not
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  you know, something that's like very specific and that we tend to overeat or
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  engage in that behavioral access that you mentioned. Yeah, like peanut butter for
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  me, me too. I love peanut butter, love chocolate. I could
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  eat so much chocolate sitting in one setting it could be a problem, but
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  I tend to keep that in mind. I have a very kind of like
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  I have too much of a sweet tooth. Well and that's a different conversation
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  for a different day. So what happens here in this space is that and
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  this is kind of what some of the studies have shown or people describe as
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  happening inside of this, is that reward systems in the brain are activated when
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  accessing specific foods. So what they say is that ongoing contact with these specific
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  foods can lead to pattern behavior and described as either a psychological or an emotional
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  dependence on accessing said food. And we're going to kind of talk about different
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  ways that manifest but essentially it's not necessarily a chemical dependency. Although some studies
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  show that people are highly sensitive to certain foods, what they find more often
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  is that when they're discussing what they call food addiction, is it's mostly psychologically
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  related or it's emotionally related. Yeah, I was going to say, based
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  on this, when we're talking about it invoking the reward system of the brain,
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  I think there's the quick side conversation to have about like, as we
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  evolved, it was advantageous for us evolutionarily to enjoy foods that were very colorically
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  dense because our food supply was not consistent often and not necessarily predictable. And
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  so foods that would sustain us longer and would give us more bang for our
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  buck, basically per bite more good. And now that we've engineered our way
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  to unrestricted access to these types of foods, what we've run into is we
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  then have to manage the biological necessity to want to consume colorically dense foods.
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  And a lot of people talk about this, and so a very short way
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  of saying that activates the reward system in your brain is we like stuff that
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  tastes good. Yeah, and it tastes good because it was It was good
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  for us to like that type of thing when we needed more calories. Good
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  stuff is good, is the way to frame that, right, I mean,
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  that's and that's really it makes sense, right, Like, there's very
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  rarely we eat food that were like, oh, this is disgusting, I'm
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  gonna keep eating it, right, unless it's like, I don't know,
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  some vegetable you don't like or whatever. But for the most part, we
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  tend to go after foods that we find pleasant to eat. Now, there's
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  a difference between eating food that is pleasant to eat, maybe eating too much
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  of that food and then going to the level of I desperately need that food
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  for comfort or peace or stress relief or whatever it might be. Like,
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  there is kind of that line that we get to that it's we have to
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  kind of pay attention to that piece. Yes, and so what we'll talk
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  about, I think some of the symptoms of food addiction. After we listen
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  to some adsh Okay, so we are back, let's talk about the what
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  we're sort of looking for if we're trying to identify food addiction. Yeah,
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  so there are some symptoms that you might look for. One of them is
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  compulsive overeating, and one of them is eating alone. Now this is not
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  mean going to a restaurant and have meal by yourself. There's nothing wrong with
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  that doing that every now and again. What this is talking about more so
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  is like most of your meals are eaten alone in secret, in private,
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  that kind of thing. I guess I have some confessing to do. There's
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  also gaining weight rapidly and then eating to the point of stomach discomfort, which,
• 14:18
  for those of you who are unaware, I don't know how often this
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  is the case. It seems like in my travels it's fairly rare. But
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  in Nevada specifically, we have what is called all you can eat sushi,
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  which is you pay a flat rate and then you get as much sushi as
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  you like for the entire evening. They're very strict about like you can't throw
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  out the rice, you have to eat everything, you can't waste any food.
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  But if you follow those rules, they will just keep giving you sushi
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  endlessly, and that incentivizes eating to the point of stomach discomfort, and most
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  people do. Yes, yes, yeah. See in Florida, we have
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  what's called a Golden Corral, and people do that a lot there too.
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  You know, somebody brought up the idea of eating sushi in the desert,
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  and how strange that seems and so fair. I guess maybe you know,
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  everybody's got their thing. I don't know. I mean the sushi I eat.
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  I feel I would feel pretty safe eating in the desert. But I
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  guess maybe if there was fish on it, that would be a different problem.
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  I mean, I'm only like a two and a half hour drive to
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  the ocean, so it's not like it's that far away. No, that's
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  not pretty where we're at, yeah, I mean further inland, obviously it
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  starts to get harder, but we're also close to Lake Tahoe, which has
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  a lot of fish, but also when you're eating a plant based sort of
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  lifestyle, there aren't no fish in the sushi to worry about. It's more
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  about the seaweed, nor and other vegetables they put in it, and like
• 15:41
  the sauces that they use. So there's that. I get that. So
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  some of the other things too, would be consuming feed rapidly, decrease mobility,
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  with from withdrawal or withdrawal from activities due to weight gain, and feelings
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  of guilt. There's also a feeling or sense of loss of control, depression,
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  mood swings are going to be expected, and then hiding consumption, so
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  you might eat late at night, eat in the car, hide foods to
• 16:07
  eat later. Those are all sort of things that you might be on the
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  lookout for. Something I want to point out, though, is that any
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  of these things that are described here might not necessarily be food addiction related.
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  So as an example, as somebody who grow up in a house where there's
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  maybe like food scarcity, consuming food quickly meant that you got seconds right right,
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  Like you ate your food quickly because there are multiple people and like the
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  first person to finish their plate was the first person to get seconds, which
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  meant you got more food. It wasn't because you were addicted to food,
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  is because there was a practical, pragmatic reason for it, right one hundred
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  percent or gaining rapidly could be a hormonal change, you know, or feelings
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  of guilt could just be your catholic. So, like, I think it's
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  really important to kind of remember that as we talk about this, there might
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  be some other reasons that these symptoms are coming up that are not inherently related
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  to having a food addiction, and that it actually comes back to what we
• 17:00
  talked about when we were discussing sex addiction is oftentimes what you're actually looking at
• 17:06
  is some other issue that's going on, and as part of the spectrum of
• 17:12
  like related things that go along with that particular condition or issue, you might
• 17:18
  see an excess of this particular thing. And so I think that that's very
• 17:22
  similar here to where like when you have what's seen sometimes as other mental health
• 17:26
  issues, you might have a corresponding change in other behaviors like sleep, like
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  sex, like eating that then look like those of the problem, when they're
• 17:37
  actually more of a symptom of the problem, If that makes sense, right,
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  the stuff that we just talked about, these patterned kind of behaviors that
• 17:45
  are occurring. If it's not treated effectively or addressed in some way, it
• 17:48
  can actually lead to more complex eating disorders, can lead to obesity and other
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  adverse health conditions that might arise from eating certain types of foods, right,
• 17:56
  like diabetes or heart conditions or fatty liver. There's a lot of things that
• 18:00
  could happen that are like actual medical conditions that can occur as a result of
• 18:04
  excessive eating of certain foods. It sounds like we should talk about how to
• 18:08
  treat this. Then, of course, we should talk about how to treat
• 18:11
  this. So we are going to do a full episode on treatments for addiction
• 18:15
  in general, like probably the next episode. Yeah, but since this type
• 18:18
  of addiction, and I say, I'm going to say, I'm gonna start
• 18:22
  here by saying this quote unquote addiction and you'll see kind of where that goes.
• 18:25
  But this type of quot unquot addiction appears to have a distinct characteristic compared
• 18:29
  to others, and we thought it would be good to kind of cover some
• 18:32
  of the things that are done to treat psychological food dependents, like why people
• 18:37
  are going to this type of food. Why they continue to access this food
• 18:41
  besides the fact that it just tastes well? So what, why or how
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  are we treating this? What are some ways that we're doing it. One
• 18:47
  of them is medication. Yeah, drugs of the solution to all things,
• 18:52
  isn't that funny? Drugs and drugs to treat addiction. That's right, Drugs
• 18:55
  that treat to treat drugs. So we have drugs like oh boy, okay,
• 18:59
  let's dex Samphetamine and fluoxetine are both approved. So these are a couple
• 19:03
  of drugs that are both approved to treat these types of concerns with unregulated food
• 19:08
  eating, if you will. There are also some off label uses, which
• 19:12
  means not prescribed for this, specifically SSRIs, the typical antidepressors like trazodone,
• 19:21
  and there are anti obesity medications and appetite suppressants that have also been used as
• 19:26
  a means to help reduce the compulsive eating. Yeah. So something that you'll
• 19:30
  learn if you study like any sort of behavioral psychopharmacology, like something that if
• 19:36
  for those of you who are listening, if you've never studied any of that
• 19:38
  psychopharmacology is super interesting but you learn that anything with the suffix of amphetamine is
• 19:45
  likely to have an appetite supressant type of maybe a side effect there or a
• 19:51
  lot of times that's what they used. Like, so anything with amphetamine is
• 19:53
  going to have that kind of piece to it. Good to know. Yeah,
• 19:56
  Now there's also counseling. Both psycho therapy and nutritional counseling have been shown
• 20:02
  to be effective in identifying possible causes for disordered eating as well as providing healthy
• 20:06
  alternatives and not necessarily food alternatives when I say healthy alternatives, but more so
• 20:10
  healthy coping skills for addressing those related concerns, more so different healthy eating habits,
• 20:15
  skills around cooking and nutritional choice making and stuff like that. There are
• 20:19
  some things that exist inside of that that just come from counseling and education,
• 20:23
  and so the often means that you're probably going to see things show them up
• 20:26
  in this space as you might expect, like cognitive behavioral therapy or CBT,
• 20:32
  Acceptance and Commitment therapy or ACT for functional analytic psychotherapy or FAP, and then
• 20:38
  dialectical behavioral therapy DNT. So there's a lot and they all have some some
• 20:45
  things in common, but they are they're essentially often, if not usually,
• 20:49
  one on one talk based sort of therapies right when you're meeting with a counselor
• 20:53
  to help give you some strategies and guidance around your language with respect to this
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  type of thing, exactly the next one that we so we've talked about medication
• 21:04
  and counseling, there is actually another what I would consider a bit more extreme
• 21:11
  but probably effective invasive. Yeah, definitely more invasive intervention, which is jaw
• 21:17
  wiring. Now, I actually had to have this done to me when I
• 21:21
  was a kid. I fell out of a tree and I landed on my
• 21:25
  face and it broke my jawbone. And so to ensure that my jaw grew
• 21:30
  correctly and didn't like skew to one side. And also, like when they
• 21:36
  put you in a cast, it's so that you don't move the bones that
• 21:37
  are broken to further and potentially further injure them. That's kind of the same
• 21:41
  thing with wiring your jaw. If you break your jaw, so they basically
• 21:45
  insert wires up into the up through your gums and then down to the bottom
• 21:48
  of your mouth, so you can only open your mouth is basically stuck at
• 21:52
  like a quarter inch open or almost like a centimeter open for those of us
• 21:57
  using the metric system, and it just stays that way all the time.
• 22:02
  And that happened to me when I was seven, and it was not fun
• 22:06
  and I definitely lost a lot of weight. But that is a that might
• 22:08
  be an intentional procedure to address overeating. Yeah, so jaw wiring is that.
• 22:15
  The way they describe it is they attach orthodontic brackets or kind of similar
• 22:19
  braces, and they wrap wire around the brackets, or they use bars and
• 22:22
  loops, or they use mental splints. There are a lot of kind of
• 22:26
  other applications for this, like you just mentioned breaking your jaw. But the
• 22:29
  reason that jaw wiring works is not because it addresses the concern for why you
• 22:33
  are eating that food. It makes it literally impossible to eat solid foods.
• 22:37
  So patients that have their jaw wired shut just end up on a liquid diet,
• 22:42
  yes, which is what happens to me. I had a lot of
• 22:45
  apple sauce and milkshakes and it was terrible. It sounds like a party,
• 22:49
  but at the same time, yeah, I would I would probably get real
• 22:53
  sick of milkshakes real quick, you know. Besides Jawa, there is another
• 23:00
  type of intervention that they talked about when I was looking at this, and
• 23:03
  it was a twelve step program. So, going back to the very first
• 23:07
  episode on this show, Alcoholics Anonymous showing up again in an episode. It
• 23:12
  is absurd how much Alcoholics Anonymous and AA has showed up in almost every episode
• 23:18
  that we've talked about this stuff. Isn't that wild? Yeah? And it
• 23:22
  was the second episode we did in this series. Our first one was actually
• 23:23
  like a defensive orgy, but it was the first like full like dedicated topic
• 23:27
  to a specific thing inside of addiction. But yeah, it is wildly pervasive
• 23:33
  in the realm of addiction. It seems like any I think that probably anything
• 23:38
  that finds itself with the label of addiction attached to it will find in that
• 23:44
  addiction anonymous thing attached to it, which you probably use is the twelve step
• 23:48
  program. Yeah. And so for food addiction or overeating, they have Overreaters
• 23:52
  Anonymous, So there is that group that exists for specifically for this type of
• 23:57
  concern. Yeah, talk about a party right there, you know, so
• 24:02
  we've been talking about I think all of these are based on you know,
• 24:06
  us digging around and funding some of the things that exist on the internet.
• 24:10
  And Shane, thank you so much for your time and dedication and putting this
• 24:12
  all together. But there's also like actual research that we should look at.
• 24:17
  So let's review some studies here. Yeah, so Golden Shriner, which by
• 24:21
  the way, is a great team of researchers, Golden Shriner together, Like,
• 24:25
  that's such a great team thing. That is pretty solid right there.
• 24:27
  I like that. I like that. You know, do you ever do
• 24:30
  that? Do you ever read some research and you're like, man, those
• 24:32
  names go together real well? Oh yeah, absolutely, I love it so
• 24:36
  much. So Golden Schriner two thirteen found that there are genetic factors that are
• 24:40
  related to possible food addiction, and what they found was that those genetic factors
• 24:44
  are heritable. So they basically said, there's a primary factor in food dependency
• 24:48
  that is related to dopamine and dopamgnergic This. I love when we get into
• 24:52
  these episodes that have like medicine and like biology and neurology because it makes you
• 24:57
  question whether you can read or not like or speak or speak at all.
• 25:03
  So dopaminergic receptor supersensitivity that I think they said that in Mary Poppins, didn't
• 25:08
  They Yeah, yes, that I'm not even gonna try to sing that.
• 25:15
  So basically what they said was people who suffer from this type of disordered eating
• 25:18
  are highly susceptible to dopamine increases, and their receptors are more likely to absorb
• 25:22
  dopamine like faster and more rapidly, and like the reward It basically goes back
• 25:26
  to reward systems, right, And so these folks that have this type of
• 25:30
  susceptibility have an added vulnerability to addiction in other areas, not just food related.
• 25:36
  So they kind of posit the idea that if you have this this super
• 25:40
  sensitivity related to your dopamine receptors, that you are not only susceptible to food
• 25:44
  addiction but other types of addiction. We also have Atoms and Colleagues twenty nineteen,
• 25:49
  and they liken food addiction to substance use disorders using the addiction model which
• 25:56
  we have talked about in these episodes. They describe some com and interventions that
• 26:00
  might be used, but note that due to the criteria in the DSM the
• 26:04
  Diagnostical Statistical Manual, the substance use diagnostic criterion would really apply to very few
• 26:11
  cases related to this idea of psychological food dependency. So there's just there's more
• 26:18
  research needed to help unpack this a bit more to make sense by trying to
• 26:23
  use that addiction framework. There's one thing I want to say about this is
• 26:27
  that whenever you read a study, every study ends with more research is needed,
• 26:32
  right Like, we can all get a scientist that is true. But
• 26:34
  when they go so far as to put that inside of the abstract, that
• 26:37
  tells you that there's a pretty large gap in that literature, right Like.
• 26:41
  I think if part of the results and part of the discussion overall in the
• 26:45
  abstract is we need more research on this, then there's a that's a pretty
• 26:51
  significant gap, absolutely, And then loss of and friends. And I like
• 26:55
  saying at all as friends now, by the way, I am nice.
• 26:59
  I like it. It sounds really wholesome. So Lasso and friends in twenty
• 27:02
  twenty one theorizes the food addiction and culture may be more linked than we studied
• 27:06
  thus far, so we haven't actually studied culture and food addiction too much.
• 27:10
  But what they did find was that the largest issues related to studying food adiction
• 27:12
  are related to lexicon. Some cultures don't even have the language to describe the
• 27:17
  phenomenon in some sort of meaningful way. And then also sociodemographic groups. Some
• 27:22
  groups just have access to more resources, so food addiction might be more prevalent
• 27:26
  in areas where there's not food scarcity, people can access that food. And
• 27:29
  additionally, they said, quote global variations in eating culture and presentation of similar
• 27:33
  constructs end quote raise unique questions inside of said research. So studying food addiction
• 27:40
  across cultures, and they did specifically say food addiction is not a uniquely American
• 27:44
  thing, which is kind of nice. Then it wasn't just like a USA
• 27:48
  number one type of thing. But they did say that it was actually really
• 27:52
  difficult to research because of the descriptions and the understanding and the food culture across
• 27:56
  the world. So right, yeah, exactly is that you start to move
• 28:00
  into spaces where just the culture is different around food, and it definitely speaks
• 28:04
  to if you move from one culture to another and you don't even have the
• 28:11
  similar symptoms of food addiction, it starts to raise the inquiry of like,
• 28:17
  so how much of this has to be due to culture? Then, you
• 28:21
  know, right, because it's not even like if you don't have the language
• 28:23
  for that doesn't mean that there's not some version of it that's out there,
• 28:26
  But if you don't even have the symptoms of it, then that I think
• 28:30
  speaks to something more contextually bounds to the nature of that the culture and that
• 28:37
  that area that is important for really understanding how something like this could even begin
• 28:42
  to take shape, right, I think that's that's a very important consideration.
• 28:47
  Yeah, and we do know that disorder eating is not culture bound, right,
• 28:51
  Like, I think that's a really important thing to this point, Like
• 28:53
  you know, and so like we so that is like kind of the one
• 28:56
  of the findings, but yeah, like it's just one of those things where
• 28:59
  it's like, hey, there's a glaring gap in this area. We do
• 29:00
  know that disordered eating and overeating is not a culture bound phenomenon, like because
• 29:06
  we did the episode on culture bound disorders, and it was the one where
• 29:11
  the there with the is aikiri. I think it was where some men in
• 29:15
  Japan had the fear that their penis was shrinking into their bodies. Oh yes,
• 29:19
  yes, yes, that's right, yeah, or like ghost sickness,
• 29:22
  right yeah. Yeah, So like we know this is a phenomenon that happens
• 29:25
  across cultures at least so at least at least disordered eating, I should say.
• 29:29
  So, it's it's super interesting to kind of look at that. And
• 29:32
  I think food culture in general, like cultures around food in general, is
• 29:36
  just really fascinating. So I'm glad that they're actually talking about what this might
• 29:38
  look like in those situations too. You know, this joke is a little
• 29:42
  late, but you had said, like we talked about Golden Shiner being two
• 29:45
  names that go really well together, and I was I was thinking, Abraham
• 29:49
  and Shane are two research names that sound like they go really well together.
• 29:55
  Well, we used to call ourselves Shanbraham. That is true, Shanebraham and
• 29:57
  ads and podcasts are things that should not go together. I think I'm gonna
• 30:10
  go ahead and say this now because we're reaching the end. This is gonna
• 30:12
  be a sort of short so I don't think I can jinx or curse it
• 30:18
  now because we were sort of reaching the end. We do have some more
• 30:21
  interesting tidbits and some important take home points. But hopefully we'll come in under
• 30:26
  an hour this time. Yeah, I think we will. But I think
• 30:29
  that you know, that's our superpower, so we'll see. Yes, there
• 30:32
  are some ways that specific areas, specific parts of the world have tried to
• 30:36
  address this type of problem. In Ireland, they implemented something called a sugar
• 30:40
  tax, and they actually implemented sugar tax not just for disordered eating, but
• 30:44
  it was really to help with concerns with obesity. What does this do.
• 30:47
  It does exactly what you think it does. It places a higher tax on
• 30:49
  what they described as harmful foods and drinks that were considered high levels of addictive
• 30:55
  types of foods. Right, so like sugar, candy, sodas, like
• 30:59
  those all have sugar tact in Ireland. Huh, how interesting. Yeah,
• 31:03
  that is not something that I had heard, but you know, Brazil actually
• 31:06
  did something like that. I think it was Brazil where they did like this
• 31:08
  color coding system for the quality of the food. Where it was I think
• 31:12
  it was like a sort of stop play. We maybe even talked about this
• 31:17
  in an episode where they did like green light, yellow light, red light
• 31:19
  on the labels of food that helped actually reduce over consumption of nutritionally derelict foods
• 31:26
  if you will. Yeah, that is kind of interesting. I think it'd
• 31:30
  be worth unpacking the data on this and see have these policies actually worked to
• 31:34
  address that concern. Yeah. Anyway, another interesting tidbit here is about fourteen
• 31:40
  percent of adults experience or meet the general characteristics of food addiction. And so
• 31:47
  that's kind of a lot. Actually, that's a lot more than I might
• 31:49
  have actually thought. But you know, I think given the levels of obesity
• 31:53
  that have been observed around the world, maybe that does make a lot of
• 31:56
  sense. Yeah. The problem with that statement that I just made is that
• 32:00
  obesity is not necessarily the result of an eating disorder or food addiction. Right.
• 32:05
  There are lots of things to understand and consider about that, but anyway,
• 32:08
  I was just trying to make sense of that number. Important to understand
• 32:12
  there are no data or studies on food addiction recovery. When I say no,
• 32:15
  I mean zero, there are are none. Yeah, exactly zero,
• 32:21
  which I thought was fascinating. Yeah, more researchers needed, More researchers needed.
• 32:27
  Here's one of my favorite segments that we do, and it's all about
• 32:29
  myth busting. So we are going to mixbust a little bit because we have
• 32:31
  gotten to We've got to do it. Okay, all right, So there
• 32:35
  is a myth going around that you cannot measure food addiction and That is false.
• 32:38
  The fact is that there is something called the Yale Food Addiction Scale,
• 32:43
  and it has been validated by multiple studies and can be used to help measure
• 32:46
  how serious a quote unquote food adiction might be for a person. I am
• 32:51
  interested in learning more about that. Yeah. Another piece here is that food
• 32:54
  can be as addictive as heroin or cocaine. Actually that is a myth.
• 33:00
  It cannot. It's much closer to nicotine or caffeine, which makes sense to
• 33:05
  a point. Probably less so as nicotine, I would guess, but caffeine
• 33:09
  I could definitely see where It's like, it's not like it's that difficult to
• 33:14
  quit. It's just you kind of don't want to a lot of the time,
• 33:16
  and stopping just means headaches, right or yeah, you get grumpy,
• 33:22
  get irritable. All kinds of stuff happen when you don't have the foods that
• 33:24
  you like, you know, right. So there's a myth going around that
• 33:28
  food addiction recovery is just weight loss, and that is false. The fact
• 33:31
  is that food addiction recovery may take on many forms, but we don't actually
• 33:36
  know since no studies have been done on this, We just don't know what
• 33:38
  food addiction recovery looks like at all. All right, this next myth it
• 33:44
  harkens back to a comment I made at the beginning at the top of this
• 33:46
  discussion, which is the idea that minimally processed foods such as fruit, quinoa,
• 33:52
  or nuts can be addictive. And I'm sure there are people out there
• 33:57
  who love, love, love those things and eat them a lot. But
• 34:01
  the fact is, there's actually no evidence to suggest that those are in fact
• 34:06
  addictive. And because we're talking about again, things that are biologically necessary,
• 34:10
  a lot of people are going to have a preference for certain foods that they
• 34:14
  eat a lot and that they really enjoy, that are perfectly healthy and nutritious
• 34:19
  and good for you. And it's like, how much kale can you consume
• 34:23
  before it becomes toxic? Like way more than you're going to consume before it
• 34:29
  becomes toxic. Yeah, you know, so you're not eating these nutritionally sound
• 34:36
  foods to the point of excess, to the point where it's like we need
• 34:38
  to be worried about the harm. R There are plenty of foods that taste
• 34:43
  good and you might be lumped into like the lower processed category. They probably
• 34:46
  could eat to excess, like if you try and drink a gallon of milk
• 34:50
  in one sitting, you can die from that. That will kill you.
• 34:53
  Yeah, and there are other foods I think that are similar, but for
• 34:55
  the most part, we're talking about these like very unp processed produce. You're
• 35:00
  probably very safe to eat that in whatever quantities you deem or meet your necessity
• 35:07
  to stay alive and fed, right, exactly exactly. So, I think
• 35:13
  at this point in time, there's not really much more to unpack about this
• 35:15
  stuff, but we do have a couple take on points that I think are
• 35:19
  necessary to kind of round this episode out. I think the first thing is
• 35:22
  that we are still kind of at that stage where we're asking the question of
• 35:25
  whether or not food addictions exist, and the answer is kind of, I
• 35:30
  guess. You know, there are some of the hallmarks of addiction, like
• 35:34
  excessive behavior, adverse consequences that we've kind of talked about at nauseum across multiple
• 35:38
  episodes, but it doesn't quite meet the addiction criterion at this time, especially
• 35:43
  set forth by the DSM. What we find more so is that there are
• 35:46
  a couple symptoms, but not all of the symptoms related to that, and
• 35:50
  really what it seems like is food addiction is less an addiction and more a
• 35:52
  result or a symptom of more complex disordered eating. So it's just maybe like
• 35:57
  one portion or one piece of the pie compared to the larger concern of disordered
• 36:00
  eating and maybe some actual food related disorders. Yeah, exactly. And I
• 36:06
  think you know, food addiction is more in line with some of those behavioral
• 36:08
  addiction or disorders that we've talked about and does not necessarily fit that sort of
• 36:14
  substance abuse model that we've used to talk about excesses that are more aligned with
• 36:20
  that sort of addiction piece, and as a result, they don't exist in
• 36:22
  the same way that we know addiction to exist. That's not to say that
• 36:27
  they're not important, they're not relevant, they don't affect people. It clearly
• 36:30
  does. Yeah, it seems different in a fundamentally important way from some of
• 36:36
  those substance use disorders, and it's more in line with the behavioral addictions,
• 36:38
  including complex psychological and emotional factors that lead to poor outcomes. And as I
• 36:45
  think you know, as we mentioned earlier, oftentimes what we're looking at is
• 36:49
  some other condition that in correspondence with that condition, we see concombinant increases and
• 36:57
  other behaviors where that it's not the I hate saying underline, cause I think
• 37:02
  that's a very loaded term that I think some sometimes suggests something a little bit
• 37:07
  mythical, like you're ID or you're psyche or something, or unconscious drives,
• 37:14
  Like that's not a useful way to characterize it. But oftentimes what you do
• 37:16
  have is some other set of circumstances that are important to unpacking this. And
• 37:22
  one that we didn't actually bring up in this episode is I think a lot
• 37:25
  of times you'll get behavioral excesses that are motivated by taking a break, by
• 37:30
  an escape. Right. It's like when you're stressed out, you eat when
• 37:36
  you're upset, you might eat these like highly comforting sugary foods when you want
• 37:42
  to take a break from work. Like one thing that you can do is
• 37:45
  like say I'm going to take a snack break, and while I can't do
• 37:47
  much else, while I'm like using my hands to shovel food in my face,
• 37:52
  which means I get to stop working for a little while, right,
• 37:54
  and not focus on my work. So there's a payoff for people that we've
• 38:00
  manufactured this culture of work such that motivating escape from work becomes a pretty relevant
• 38:07
  variable. And one reasonable way to escape that doesn't come with very much stigma
• 38:13
  is eating. And it doesn't have to be work either. It could be
• 38:15
  a lot of things, but like I think it could work as an escape
• 38:17
  and that could be very important for understanding why it happens to excess for some
• 38:22
  people. Yeah, I have a question for you. Shoot, we were
• 38:25
  talking about that and kind of going over that. I think you said a
• 38:29
  lot of really great things, but you said something that I don't understand,
• 38:31
  and that is the word concommonant. So can you tell us what that word
• 38:35
  means? Time? Yes, man, it's been a while since we've did
• 38:40
  a vocab, isn't it. Yeah, So, concombin it just means essentially
• 38:45
  that it goes together. They're collaterally connected. It's accompanied by something else.
• 38:51
  When you have an increase in people golfing, you have a concomitant increase in
• 38:59
  the same of ugly hats. Sure. Yeah, that's good. I like
• 39:05
  that. Just a really great example. Yeah, thank you. That was
• 39:09
  off the fly. So, yes, can combinant. Yeah, it's just
• 39:13
  it's just a way of saying that there are things that go together. But
• 39:15
  good catch good catch on the blackhand. I went, I went, huh,
• 39:19
  and then the transcript said it, and I was like, I looked
• 39:22
  it up to see if it was a real word or if you made it
• 39:23
  up, and then it was a real word. So I wanted to I
• 39:25
  wanted you to talk about that. See, we do live real time fact
• 39:30
  checking here. That's how you know you're getting the good stuff. Yeah,
• 39:34
  exactly. I actually really appreciate that because I definitely I have historically said things
• 39:40
  that I thought were words, and I was like, well, I mean
• 39:43
  it sounds like a word, but yeah, but commentant is a word.
• 39:47
  Yes, it's a good word. I like it. Thank you. So
• 39:51
  do you have anything else you want to add to this? I don't really
• 39:52
  have much more to add, you know. I think my biggest thing is
• 39:55
  that people are impacted greatly by food related concerns. Like that is certainly well
• 40:01
  within the realm of what we're talking about here. I don't know that that
• 40:07
  food addiction exists the way that we think it does, though, And I
• 40:08
  think that's probably like where I end up landing more than anything else. Well,
• 40:13
  and I think that the better way to think about it is how it
• 40:15
  relates to disordered eating. Yeah, I went through a period of time many
• 40:19
  years ago that I've discussed where I decided to do fasts like it was a
• 40:22
  daily fast as an interminute fasting is what it was called. But the way
• 40:27
  that I did is I gave myself like a one hour window that I could
• 40:30
  eat and then the rest of the day I couldn't. And I got really,
• 40:34
  really really into cooking and baking during that time, but I wouldn't eat
• 40:37
  most of what I cooked or made. But I was just like I spent
• 40:39
  my free time looking up recipes. I was like constantly every day, multiple
• 40:45
  times a day, at the grocery store picking up esoteric ingredients. It was
• 40:49
  like a really weird relationship to food that wasn't addiction, but it was like
• 40:54
  excessive. Yeah, it was excessive, but I wasn't even eating almost any
• 40:59
  of it. I would give it all away, but it was because I
• 41:00
  wasn't eating again unrelated, you know, there was other things going on.
• 41:05
  My motivation for food was like through the roof high, and so that was
• 41:09
  one thing I've had. But the I've actually kind of gone the opposite direction
• 41:13
  as I've gone later in life, which is I'm at the point now where
• 41:15
  I'm like, food to me feels like a waste of time. Sure,
• 41:19
  And I'm like, if I could never eat again, I would be pretty
• 41:22
  happy because I would just not be spending time on this thing. With the
• 41:25
  one major caveat that, like, as I mentioned, for me, food
• 41:30
  can be like a justification for taking a break, and I desperately need more
• 41:32
  of those in my life. I feel like I am just constantly busy and
• 41:37
  any opportunity to take a break is an opportunity that I will seize. And
• 41:39
  so that being said, like, I think it is reasonable to point out
• 41:44
  that I do very much look forward to and look for places where they have
• 41:47
  very good food, and that I do enjoy those experiences when they happen.
• 41:52
  But if I could turn off the feeling, Like what I've been saying lately
• 41:55
  is it's not so much that I like food as it is I hate feeling
• 41:59
  hung Yeah, And so like, if I could just turn that off and
• 42:01
  have that stop controlling my time, I think I would appreciate that a lot.
• 42:06
  Yeah, but I haven't actually got to do that experiment yet, so
• 42:08
  maybe I'm wrong. Yeah, one day, you'll get there, one day.
• 42:12
  So that's one thing I would add. The only other thing I think
• 42:14
  that would add is just going back to because we didn't talk about this too
• 42:16
  much and I just mentioned this, but thinking about the purpose the service for
• 42:22
  people, and I think that taking a break is one of them. I
• 42:25
  think that there's a lot of culture, tradition and comfort around food and food
• 42:30
  preparation that might start to look like addiction. Yeah, because of the routine
• 42:34
  and the habit around it. I think there might be some classism, sort
• 42:37
  of eliteism wrapped into this idea of like I get to have very fancy foods,
• 42:43
  and so people who will pay a lot of money for food, their
• 42:46
  obsession again could sort of look like addiction, and that what it's sort of
• 42:51
  more of a status, is related to their view of themselves and their worth
• 42:54
  of themselves, is like the kind of food that they could eat. I
• 42:58
  think you can see this in thisa of like providing food for other people and
• 43:02
  so you end up just consuming a ton of food in the meantime. So
• 43:06
  I think unpacking this behaviorally, I think if we unwrap the context and the
• 43:09
  purposes that food can serve for people, it'll start to make a lot of
• 43:15
  sense how food shows up in their space in a way that might look like
• 43:20
  addiction, and maybe it's even useful to call it addiction sometimes, But ultimately
• 43:24
  I think what we call something is related to how we want to then feel
• 43:29
  about it, how we want to think about it, and what we want
• 43:30
  to do about it. And so calling something addiction the way that we currently
• 43:36
  understand and use the word addiction, it inherently implies it's problematic, it occurs
• 43:40
  at a level and frequency that we consider it pathological, it's bad. And
• 43:45
  so in that space, we're essentially making a qualitative decision about whether or not
• 43:52
  something needs to be done about this, and sometimes it does. But again,
• 43:57
  sometimes treating the symptom means you're missing a part of the overall context for
• 44:01
  that person if they've got something else going on. And so if we start
• 44:06
  to look at under what conditions do we see this type of food seeking,
• 44:12
  food engaging behavior happen, then I think we'll start to unpack to what extent
• 44:16
  does this problematic? What function is the serving for this person? What else
• 44:20
  could we be doing to support them moving in a direction that's more valuable for
• 44:24
  them? And so I think, as you were saying, like, it's
• 44:27
  not that even maybe it is an addiction. Maybe it's not. It's like,
• 44:30
  how does that framework help us and helping to understand and support someone who
• 44:36
  maybe wants understanding and support, And that's where there's utility, if any,
• 44:40
  and having this discussion and just again, that's why I think the behaviorist orientation
• 44:45
  is the most useful one, is because we ask the questions under what condition?
• 44:49
  We look at the context, We ask what's the purpose for the person?
• 44:52
  And that tells us so much more than speculating hypothetically about what they're feelings
• 44:58
  about their dad were when they were two, you know, like or any
• 45:01
  other of the nonsense that's it wrapped up in, like how we superimpose hypothetical
• 45:06
  entities over the causes of behavior. Right, I think you nailed it.
• 45:09
  I scrambled in this episode to find a soapbox to climb onto and then yell
• 45:14
  for ten minutes, but I found one and I did it. There you
• 45:16
  go. Yeah, it's impressive. It's like that's one of your superpowers.
• 45:20
  You have so many apparently contain a multitude of these superpowers. So thank you
• 45:25
  all for burying with me through that. Again. But you know, I
• 45:28
  think part of us even wanting to do this podcast is so that we could
• 45:31
  sit here and unpack these complex psychological phenomenon using the context that's necessary to understand
• 45:40
  them, right, and that's where we find ourselves. So I feel good
• 45:45
  about that. Yeah, I feel good about it too. It feels great.
• 45:47
  Great. See, we knew, we knew the moment I said this
• 45:51
  will be a shorter episode that it damned it. Even though we didn't have
• 45:53
  very much left to say. I found a way. So we'll still be
• 45:57
  on. Well, I think we'll still come in it under an hour because
• 46:00
  what we're going to do now is I am going to stop talking so that
• 46:02
  I can breathe for a moment and let advertisers come in and try and sell
• 46:07
  you food. And then we're going to come back with some recommendations. Okay,
• 46:17
  let's recommend some things now. I want you to point out, for
• 46:22
  those of you who are joining us for the first time, we are not
• 46:25
  paid by the things that we recommend. I will love it if we were.
• 46:30
  If you were out there and you're like, hey, I love that
• 46:31
  that podcast just recommended our company or our brand or whatever, then we should
• 46:36
  give them money, And I say, yes, you should feel free to
• 46:38
  come over and join us, but none of these we have never recommended anything
• 46:42
  for which we have been paid. These are solely our personal experiences and recommendations
• 46:46
  that we like to throw out there for everybody. And sometimes they're not even
• 46:51
  things. They're like just a recommendation to do a thing right. But anyway,
• 46:55
  we're recommending some things recommendations. So I am as somebody, I will
• 47:08
  put a caveat here. As you know, I mentioned earlier that I have
• 47:12
  a sweet tooth, and I have learned over time that like what I prefer
• 47:16
  for sweets is usually chocolate, caramel, like those that type of flavor palate,
• 47:22
  butterscotch in that world, you know, savory, buttery, sweet like
• 47:24
  stuff like that. Love me some chocolate so much. Yeah. Oh well,
• 47:28
  So one thing that I always tried to avoid was jelly beans. And
• 47:31
  I don't know why, probably because Ronald Reagan liked them, and I don't
• 47:36
  want to do anything wrong with ragging likes, but it was it was one
• 47:39
  of those things where you know, like for some reason, the other day
• 47:44
  it was like I really wanted to try jelly beans. I really not tried
• 47:50
  them, but like I really wanted to like get some, So I bought
• 47:52
  a pack of jelly belly jelly beans, and it's so fun because there's so
• 47:55
  many flavors in there, and they do a really good job of having like
• 48:00
  very specific flavors that like match the flavor they're trying to accomplish. Nice.
• 48:05
  My recommendation is just going and buying yourself a pack of jelly Billy jelly beans
• 48:07
  nice and just kind of seeing what's in there and discovering what you like and
• 48:10
  what you don't like. Because you're gonna eat a chocolate pudding one and be
• 48:13
  like, I didn't think that I would like that one, but I do.
• 48:15
  Yeah, And then you're gonna try a juicy pear one and be like,
• 48:17
  did not like that? Yeah, so's it's gonna be fun to kind
• 48:21
  of explore that and see what's in there. That's great. I can totally
• 48:24
  get on board. That's really fun. And like some grocery stores will have
• 48:28
  like a section of their aisle where you can like mix and match to jelly
• 48:31
  belly flavors. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Yeah, and they're gluten free
• 48:35
  and vegan. Oh wow, how about that? Yeah? Pretty open to
• 48:37
  the public. Then, all right, jelly Billy jelly beans very nice,
• 48:40
  Okay, I am recommending a thing that you can do and not any particular
• 48:45
  brand or person to do it. But I'm hiring, I'm recommending. I'm
• 48:47
  not hiring. I'm recommending that you hire someone to do your yard work.
• 48:52
  Now, a lot of people like doing yard work, and I say more
• 48:54
  power to you. I personally man, this warn is a very sort of
• 48:59
  maybe mini length discussion, So I'm not going to do the whole thing,
• 49:01
  but let's just suffice it to say, I am acutely aware of the fact
• 49:07
  that I'm going to die someday and that every second that passes in my life
• 49:12
  that I am not doing something valuable to me is a second I will never
• 49:16
  get back, and that has gone forever. And so every second that I
• 49:21
  spend doing yard work, I feel my life draining away from me into a
• 49:25
  meaningless void where I'm sitting there pulling weeds, imagining myself Lena, my my
• 49:31
  deathbed, going well, that was a waste, and then just dying and
• 49:36
  life. Right, That's how much I hate it. So if you get
• 49:38
  paid to do yard work or you like doing yard work, then great,
• 49:43
  that's awesome for you. But my recommendation is that you hire someone to do
• 49:45
  your yard work and do something meaningful with your life instead, or get paid
• 49:50
  to do yard work, and then you're at least making some money doing something
• 49:52
  that otherwise you could be doing something else. That's my recommendation. And like,
• 49:58
  furthermore, like if you can afford pay someone to go out and do
• 50:00
  your yard work for you, and many people just doesn't apply. They like
• 50:04
  in apartments, they don't have yards, they don't have to deal with it,
• 50:06
  which then hire someone to clean your house. But furthermore, you're like,
• 50:08
  there's someone out there who wants that job, who could really appreciate making
• 50:13
  a little cash, and you know, they can just sort of put their
• 50:15
  time in and they get something done and you get something out of it,
• 50:19
  and they make a little money, and the world goes around. It's like
• 50:21
  a win win system. So you win by not having to do yard work,
• 50:23
  they win by getting some money, and then your yard wins by not
• 50:27
  being garbage. Yeah, it's a great system and that's why I'm recommending it.
• 50:30
  I love it. I love it absolutely. Okay, in the interest
• 50:32
  of getting this podcast to under an hour, I'm gonna read through my credits
• 50:37
  really quick. If you like to join us on Patreon, you get access
• 50:38
  to behind the scenes content and all kinds of bonus goodies which you definitely want.
• 50:42
  And the people who have already supported us on Patreon, who we are
• 50:45
  just indefinitely grateful too for all of their generosity includes Mike m Megan, Mike
• 50:52
  T, Justin, Kim, Joshua, Brad, Stephanie, Olivia, Brian
• 50:57
  Ashley, Kiara Christi and Michelle. You guys, thank you so much for
• 51:00
  just yeah, thank you, yeah, just the best. Indeed. Of
• 51:05
  course, I have my team of people without whom I could not make this
• 51:07
  episode. I've got writing in fact checking from Shane Jess and myself. Our
• 51:12
  social media coordinator is Emma Wilson, and our technical sound guru Maestro Extraordinary,
• 51:17
  is Justin Greenhouse, who just does the best work for us. So we
• 51:21
  love Justin. We do. And then if you would like to reach out
• 51:23
  and tell us something about your own issues with food addiction or eating disorders,
• 51:29
  or tell us something that we got wrong in constructive criticism or something we got
• 51:32
  right in heaping praise, you can definitely do that by reaching us directly,
• 51:37
  emailing us at info at wwdwwdpodcast dot com, or on the social media platforms
• 51:43
  we really look forward to hearing from people. As I said, we do
• 51:45
  sell merchover at our merch store, and no one looks cooler than one who
• 51:49
  has a podcast mug or shirt that they they are very true, that is
• 51:52
  very true. So they're like, man, that person listens to the podcast,
• 51:55
  they must be really smart. So smart, that's what they think.
• 52:00
  So you can go check out these things and of course leaving us a reading
• 52:01
  and review. Otherwise, I think that's all that I have to say.
• 52:04
  Is there anything you'd like to add or anything that I missed before we close
• 52:07
  this episode out in a timely manner, Shane, No, I think that
• 52:09
  covers it perfect. Then this is Abraham and this is Shane. We're out.
• 52:14
  See ya. You've been listening to Why We Do What We Do.
• 52:17
  You can learn more about this and other episodes by going to WWDWWD podcast dot
• 52:23
  com. Thanks for listening, and we hope you have an awesome day