Latest / The CITIUS MAG Podcast | A Running + Track and Field Show / Josh Kerr On How He Broke The Mile World Record In 3:42.66 | Full Race Recap, Breakdown + Reflections

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Josh Kerr On How He Broke The Mile World Record In 3:42.66 | Full Race Recap, Breakdown + Reflections · The CITIUS MAG Podcast | A Running + Track and Field Show

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What's up everyone? You are listening to the CDs Mag
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podcast. I'm your host Chris Chavez, and
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every week we go beyond the results to bring you
2:00
conversations with the biggest names on the track, the roads,
2:03
and behind the scenes. From world class athletes and
2:05
coaches to innovators shaping the sport.
2:08
If it's happening on the track, we're covering it with real
2:11
insights that sharpen minds, deep dives into the moments that
2:14
define careers, and the kind of access to the pros you won't get
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anywhere. Else.
2:19
So let's get into it, because we love track and field.
2:25
My guest for today's episode is Josh Kerr, Mile world record
2:29
holder. On July 18th at the London
2:31
Diamond League in front of 60,000 people, Josh ran 342.66
2:38
to break Hisham El Garage's record that had stood for 27
2:42
years. It was the longest standing mile
2:44
world record in the history of the event and one that many
2:47
believed might never fall. He did it by calling a shot four
2:51
months in advance, jumping on this podcast and telling me why
2:55
this mattered to him and why Brooks was throwing so much
2:58
support behind him. You got to give him props.
3:01
He locked himself into a specific date and venue and all
3:04
of this was set in motion before he had even finished rehabbing
3:08
the calf injury that he had at the World Championships in Tokyo
3:11
last September. Josh is already one of the most
3:14
decorated middle distance runners of his generation.
3:17
World champion, two time Olympic medalist, 2 time world indoor
3:20
champion, but the world record puts him in a whole nother
3:23
category. He's now the 7th Brit to hold
3:26
the mild world record in the 1st and Steve Cram in 1985.
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He joins a line that runs through Rodger Banister, Sepco,
3:34
Steve Ovett, Steve Cram and now it's all Josh Kurz, the race
3:39
commentator on the world feed, which was Tim Hutchings called
3:42
it the ballsiest world record in the history of middle distance
3:46
racing. It is really hard to disagree
3:48
with that statement. This conversation was recorded
3:50
just a couple days after the race and Kyle Merber joins me as
3:53
my Co host. We get into the full art of
3:55
Project 222, how Josh pitched the idea to Brooks.
3:59
We go deep on the spikes that were built specifically for his
4:02
foot strike. And I thought one of the coolest
4:05
parts was Josh walking us through the whiteboard session
4:08
in Albuquerque where they debated every split.
4:12
The 1200 meter time trial two weeks out that converted the
4:15
last remaining skeptics hand up. That was me.
4:17
The mental performance framework that kept him in flow state when
4:20
60,000 people were watching him and what was happening
4:24
internally when he cracked that smile just before the gun went
4:27
off. And then obviously when he went
4:29
deaf with 150 meters to go. The end into what Tokyo taught
4:33
him. The cage door philosophy that
4:35
Danny Mackey lives by and who the performance was really for.
4:39
Which is maybe not the answer that you would.
4:42
So without further ado, Josh Kerr, welcome back to the City
4:46
of Smack podcast. We have a special guest on
5:00
today's podcast welcoming in mile world record holder Josh
5:04
Kerr. I've introduced you as Olympic
5:06
medalist, world champion in the past, but now finally mile world
5:10
record holder. I'm sure with the 50 plus
5:13
interviews that you've done in the last couple days, it's
5:16
settled in at this point. Yeah, I think so.
5:19
You know, listening to yourself talk about it for for a while is
5:22
is, yeah, it helps for sure. But no, it's, it's been, it's
5:25
been really fun. It's been like, really great to
5:28
see people outside the sport as well, like, can I get into this
5:32
a little bit and understand what are sports really about and
5:36
pushing the boundaries of things?
5:37
So it's been, yeah. It's been a good journey,
5:39
actually, Yeah. I was going to expect to see
5:42
your face on like The Tonight Show or something.
5:45
What has been the outlet or the interview that you've done that
5:49
you're like, wow, kind of pinch me moment.
5:51
That's pretty cool that you know they're paying attention to
5:53
track and field right now. You know, I think the, the
5:57
interview side of things is the way that it comes out normally
6:01
is like the next day and during, you know, that that evening it's
6:04
like all very like quick Sky News, BBC like interviews and
6:10
live stuff. You know, I just did a bunch of
6:12
live stuff this morning with Good Morning Britain and and
6:15
Channel 4 and but then like long term, then it kind of becomes a
6:19
little bit more chat showy and podcasting and things like that.
6:22
So yeah, we've got some really good stuff kind of in the
6:25
pipeline. But yeah, people care.
6:27
I mean, that's really cool. You know, you know, even like,
6:31
you know, Elon tweeting about it, like that's cool.
6:34
You know, I someone showed me and I was like, should I tweet
6:38
back? I mean, I haven't tweeted in
6:39
like 15 years. So yeah, your last tweet is like
6:41
a photo of you and me running in Santa Monica, which is kind of
6:44
crazy because 2023. You know, and so just didn't
6:49
feel right. You just left that one as it
6:50
was. We've got some limited time with
6:52
you. We want to obviously unpack the
6:56
day First off, I guess like calling your shot four months
6:59
out, super exciting, something you've done in the past.
7:02
But I think in hearing Danny talk about it and some of the
7:06
other people in your circle, it really, I guess like started to
7:09
weigh on the team six weeks out or something like that.
7:14
Like what when when people say like it, it started to get heavy
7:17
and the pressure was mounting. What exactly, about six weeks
7:21
out, started to make this feel different than the pressure of
7:25
an Olympic Games? Yeah, it's, it's a great
7:27
question. I think six weeks out was I
7:30
think around that kind of five weeks out time was, was when I
7:33
ran that last 800 and it didn't kind of go the way we wanted it
7:38
to go. For me, the pressure really
7:41
never got different because I'm not like, I don't listen to the
7:47
outside noise. I don't have outside.
7:49
Like, you know, I wake up in the morning, I chat to people I see
7:52
in person and that's it. And so like, I was in my own
7:55
world. But that's not how my wife
7:57
works. That's not how my parents work.
7:59
It's not how Danny works, it's not how Julian works.
8:01
So, you know, they see the externals a lot more than I do.
8:05
And you can see it in the way that I'm coached a little bit
8:07
and like, you know, Daniel put some pressure on me on some of
8:10
the workouts as well. I've been like, you know, these
8:11
are the numbers that I'm thinking or like, you know, we
8:14
want to look smooth doing this or, you know, you know, put
8:17
yourself in that mindset. So, yeah, I could feel the
8:19
pressure a little bit, but I don't know, I just don't.
8:23
I just don't care about anyone else.
8:25
I genuinely don't care. Like I'm I was trying to do
8:28
something that no one had done. I was trying to bring a positive
8:31
like like part of this sport, like a moment for everyone.
8:35
And like I was trying my fucking best.
8:37
And like that's all I could do is like, you know, you know, I
8:40
if I go out there and I run through 43.4 or like even if I
8:44
ran like in, you know, 343 high or whatever, that would be my
8:48
best. And I would have looked around
8:49
and gone. You know, that record was better
8:52
than me. And I'm like, I'm sorry that you
8:54
guys thought I was going to be a moment, but that's all I had.
8:57
Like, that's why I would have been.
8:58
And, and if that's your approach, then you're not
9:02
scared. You just go in there with a
9:04
whole heart and a full cup and you just go fuck it.
9:06
Like we're sending this and whatever the result is, it's
9:09
like a Christmas present. That's what I always felt like.
9:12
How much of the fact that this is just a quote UN quote off
9:17
year and needing to find that motivation?
9:19
I mean, you've been running global championships for about a
9:22
decade now. Was calling the shot just the
9:25
thing that you needed to kind of keep yourself honest and keep
9:28
doing those little things in 2026?
9:31
Yes, it was a balance of things. It was like 2026.
9:35
Like, you know, I approached Danny about it for, you know, a
9:39
while ago and and you know, Tokyo obviously didn't go the
9:43
way that we wanted it to, but like the Tokyo prep camp went
9:45
extremely well. And so, you know, I was still
9:49
limping around when we went into the HQ at Brooks and we were
9:52
like July 18th, like, let's do it.
9:55
And they were like, buddy, I would love, I'm going to do it
9:59
because there's no ND as I'm going to release like my
10:03
presentation to Brooks at some point.
10:05
And like, you know, obviously I asked for a nice big sexy bonus
10:10
and they kind of laughed initially and they were like,
10:14
what are you talking about? Like this is this is crazy.
10:17
And then like when it kind of hit them where I was like, yeah,
10:19
but I will have ran the world record.
10:20
And they were like, oh, yeah, OK.
10:23
And then it started, the ball started rolling.
10:24
And then I started running well and things like that.
10:27
And then, you know, we went from there.
10:29
But it was a crazy process and it was so fun.
10:33
But it was, it was definitely not like, yeah, the, the
10:36
marketing of it is great. But like, you know, we got, we
10:39
got some realms and odds for a while and then winning world and
10:42
doors. They're like, oh fuck it, this
10:43
guy's still pretty good. Like, that's good, you know?
10:47
You've worn suits to press conferences.
10:48
Did you wear a suit to the Brooks presentation?
10:50
I think I wore something similar, but with like a Brooks
10:53
shirt under or something like that where, you know, you got
10:55
to, you got to keep the main thing, the main thing with those
10:57
guys, you know, keep the the the Brooks shoes on for sure.
11:00
But yeah, it was, it's funny because they then take the
11:04
presentation and then they bring it to their, their bosses, you
11:07
know, the, the, you know, CMO Melanie, she's incredible.
11:09
And they're like, alright, we're going to need, we're going to
11:11
need some budget, you know, for, for marketing and, and shoe
11:15
development and, and they bought in massively and it was amazing
11:18
from then on. But yeah, I think that the first
11:21
one was definitely like trying not to get laughed at the
11:23
boardroom for sure. When they devised the spike,
11:26
right, I think one of the details that they shared was
11:29
that it was meant to give you a feeling like you were running
11:32
downhill. What exactly is it I guess that
11:36
the testing and the science showed about just sort of like
11:38
you're running efficiency and all that kind of stuff that
11:41
really that's sort of like how they tailor made this thing for
11:45
you, like and your particular foot.
11:47
Strike Yeah. So my my initial thing with
11:50
spikes is that so say this is where my question came in to
11:55
them was like, I was like, OK, so say I'm like a, you know, 120
11:59
LB, like 5 foot, whatever female 800m runner.
12:03
And then you've got like me like 6 to, you know, I'm not going to
12:07
say my weight publicly just because this is my biggest
12:10
question. Trying to run 342 in a mile and
12:15
the power up it through it. I was like, you know, a size 6
12:18
spike and a size 11 spike. Are those the same density of
12:22
foam? Because I don't think they are
12:24
like I don't think they should be, but they are.
12:27
And so I'm like, is the bigger the spike that the more dense
12:30
the foam? And they're like, Oh well, every
12:32
spikes different this and that. And I was like, I, I need a
12:34
spike that like feels my like, like built for me and not built
12:40
for like everyone. And so that was my biggest
12:43
problem initially was like, I need, I need something that I'm
12:46
not going to squeeze the full foam and then take the power up.
12:49
And so we got the phone like super dense and hard.
12:53
And and then from there we what they're claiming as in like, you
12:58
know, they're a lot smarter than me, but this is my dumbed down
13:01
version is you have like a spike that can do a lot of things in a
13:06
round. So if you have to slow down, you
13:08
have to pick it up, you have to go and make your moves and
13:10
stuff. They just cut that part off a
13:11
spike, that back half of the spike.
13:14
They've just cut the brakes out of them.
13:16
And so I can't heal strike. It's like if I'm not running 50
13:18
fives or faster, then the spike doesn't perform super well for
13:23
me. And then where I'm like
13:24
pronating, they're like holding me back in the spike.
13:28
They're like, they like build up the inside of the the right
13:31
spike a bit as well just to hold me into the plate.
13:34
I've heard people say that the reason Josh got this record is
13:39
because of that special Brooks spike.
13:41
And when you hear that, you go, no, I'm really good.
13:44
Like, that's why I got the record.
13:45
Or you like, yeah, like, hell yeah.
13:48
That's This is why I presented this idea to Brooks.
13:50
Let's sell some shoes. Yeah, I, I think it's a balance.
13:53
I think they, I mean, they deserve the all the, the kudos
13:56
they're getting. They worked incredibly hard.
13:59
I think, you know, you, you know, the end of the day, if you
14:02
put most people in that spike, it's not going to happen.
14:04
Or, you know, you build someone a spike, it's you know, it's
14:06
still not going to happen. But I think, I think those are
14:10
the 1% that we we need, we needed for sure.
14:14
Like I didn't get it by a lot like I had, I definitely had
14:17
some stuff working against me and it within, you know, the
14:20
situation of it being in London and like a pacemaker dropping
14:24
out, you know, 5-6 days before. Like those aren't ideal
14:27
conditions. And so, yeah, yeah, I think if
14:31
we don't have those spikes, then we could be on the wrong side of
14:34
of the number for sure. As someone who's been like super
14:37
transparent about like everything that goes into a
14:39
performance like this. So I guess like, are we missing
14:42
anything when we kind of just do like the checklist, right?
14:44
So it was a spike. Then there was like the custom
14:46
speed suit pacing. The biggest one, of course is
14:50
obviously like the training, the mindset side of things.
14:53
Like you've been working with the same mental performance
14:55
coach now for 6 plus years and then Bicarb, are you one of
15:00
those guys who's like, I guess you, you using it?
15:02
Yeah, I use it. I I don't promote it because I'm
15:05
not like like I'm not branded, but like I have it in videos.
15:09
You can see I I started using that like a year and a half year
15:12
yeah year and a half two years ago maybe so not through I
15:15
didn't do it in the Olympics in 24 and so my new PB now has it,
15:19
but it wasn't. I can run partly I can run 32779
15:23
without it, but no, I think the other performance coach side of
15:26
things is, is huge. Like it's the first time he's
15:29
ever travelled with me to a race.
15:32
And so he arrived on the Tuesday and we were able to do our
15:35
grounding sessions in the morning and, and like, and like
15:38
our wind down sessions in the evening.
15:39
That's like what we're going to maybe focus on a little bit more
15:43
when we come out with our, our like race week video.
15:45
And we have a lot more behind the scenes with that.
15:47
And you can kind of see how powerful the, the work that
15:50
we're doing is because it's really like Danny did his job
15:55
incredibly well. Like my legs were ready to run
15:57
through 42 and maybe faster if, if I got it right.
16:01
But like the, the toll it takes to to be able to show up on the
16:05
day and do I felt pretty bad all week, if I'm being honest.
16:08
Like up until like the Thursday, I was feeling pretty rough.
16:13
Just that traveled caffeine cleans, like all that stuff,
16:16
like I was just feeling a little bit like down, but as soon as I
16:20
was running fast, I felt great. When I was running my regular
16:22
speed, I felt a bit bit sluggish, which tells you a lot.
16:25
We all know like the worst the pre race, the better the race.
16:29
But you know, I, I think that's the side that we're going to try
16:31
and focus on a little bit more. But I think people are are
16:34
starting to understand the the team and of people it takes for
16:37
sure. From the sports psychology side,
16:41
I think that the thing that is most impressive about the entire
16:45
build up and everything that you did was coming off of a
16:48
disappointing World Championships, the ability to
16:50
just immediately recalibrate and set a new goal from afar.
16:54
It seems like you just took that disappointment on the chin and
16:57
like you handled it really well. You didn't come out with, like,
17:00
a bunch of excuses, like there was no, like, the sob stories
17:05
were pretty limited. You didn't really see.
17:07
You just were like, yeah, it happened.
17:08
And we moved on really quickly. And so I guess it's easy to be
17:11
mentally strong when things are going well.
17:14
How key was having someone like that in your corner at, you
17:18
know, essentially during your offseason?
17:20
I think what I realized and and maybe I'm wrong, but like, no
17:24
one cares about you. Like, no, no one cares.
17:28
Like, like, yeah, I mean, I wanted to go like I had a really
17:31
good camp going into Tokyo and I went over there and I wanted to
17:34
retain my title, but I didn't. And then like, that's that was
17:39
it. And it was like I I wanted to
17:40
share like if people were worried about me, like, yeah,
17:42
like this is what happened. I put myself in the wrong
17:45
position in a race and I went over my cab and I stranded.
17:48
But like then it was like, alright, well, that sucks, but I
17:52
don't want to be like the biggest thing was like, I don't
17:54
want to be remembered to for being that guy.
17:56
Like I, I, you know, you can make all the inspirational edits
18:00
you want on Instagram and TikTok that makes me look like I'm a,
18:03
I'm a battling through like all my adversity, but like it's just
18:06
not who I want to be. And I've created this incredible
18:10
team of people and like, internally, like, I let them
18:14
down because my positioning like, I was like, right, like
18:17
world indoors, like world record, like, like this team is
18:21
good enough for that. I didn't do my job.
18:23
And like, it's really tough. And like when, when we're in
18:28
London, you know, a big thing that, you know, Danny's a big
18:30
UFC guy, a big thing that he's saying is like before I I shut
18:35
the cage door, just let me do everything I can.
18:37
I'm like, yeah, definitely. And you know, sometimes like,
18:42
like if you can get the right people in your car and they do
18:44
their job extremely well and they shut the cages on you, like
18:47
100% is on you. And I love that feeling when
18:50
it's like everyone else has done what they've done and now it's
18:52
my job. And it was time to just show up
18:55
and, and do what I was capable of doing.
18:56
And it's it's easier said than done for sure, but it's just
19:00
like, I just have so much trust in my people and I'm having such
19:03
a good time doing it like that, you know, this is what I want to
19:06
do, you know? And so that's, that's been a fun
19:08
journey. But yeah, I didn't want to get
19:10
down too much. But I also just went straight
19:11
onto vacation in Japan. And so how bad is life, really?
19:15
I got a pair of crutches and I was gone, you know?
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Train in the heat. Don't overcook it.
21:27
So there's obviously so many people involved in the lead up
21:30
to it. Now what I love hearing about is
21:33
taking me to the night before when it comes down to dialling
21:37
in the final race plan of what the splits are you guys are
21:40
looking for? Like is that you Brandon and and
21:45
Danny? Is it just you and Danny?
21:47
And then like, how did that final, I guess like before he
21:50
closes the the cage door, how did that final meeting go?
21:54
So we had that meeting like 3 or 4 weeks ago.
21:58
I'm a big believer in the job is done over 2 weeks to go.
22:02
And so it's very much a Jose thing.
22:05
My performance coach, he's like, you know, I have this, we'll
22:08
show, we'll show it that I think Julian and recorded during our
22:12
meeting. We had a we had a big meeting
22:14
with me. I don't know if we're fuck, I'm
22:17
just going to say Drew Wendell, who's our new assistant coach to
22:20
Brooks piece. I don't know if that's out yet,
22:22
but maybe it is. I don't know.
22:23
Maybe I've ruined it. He's fucking awesome.
22:26
Julian, Danny and Brandon and we sat in Albuquerque and I rolled
22:30
in my big ass whiteboard that had every split that you can
22:33
even imagine. And we debated it for about an
22:35
hour and when we got it and we finished and we decided what the
22:39
splits were going to be and and how the lights were going to
22:41
run, it was done. And like, you know, I was forced
22:44
to then put my whiteboard away because I spent months on that
22:46
thing. Like like legitimately months
22:49
trying to figure this thing out because the actual 9 meters
22:51
makes this math so difficult dude.
22:54
Like it's so frustrating, but I needed to know the splits so
22:58
well that if I ever needed to come up for air and see a split,
23:01
I knew exactly what it meant. I can go back to work.
23:04
And and so, yeah, we had that meeting.
23:06
It was great. And it what didn't go the way I
23:09
want, not wanted it, but thought it would go.
23:12
But it was different than I thought.
23:13
And everyone was confident in it.
23:15
Split was done and and that was over like and then I was forced
23:19
to put the white. But the way it was done two
23:21
weeks before and, and the big thing that my performance coach
23:25
kept saying is it's done like the performance is done like
23:28
you, you can't, you can't work this out anymore.
23:31
There's no way if you're in your analytical brain, you can't be
23:33
in flow state. So you have to get out of your
23:35
analytical brain as early as you can.
23:38
And as long as you've done the work, the cramming for that
23:40
stuff is not smart. Because as soon as you go, OK,
23:43
well, that split is this. And it means this I need to
23:45
close and that like that's way too much thinking in a race of
23:49
of of only three minutes and 42 seconds.
23:52
We ended up getting fifty 53151.1246.5341.4 for 1600 and
23:58
then 34266. How would you have drawn it up?
24:02
We, I think we drew it up AT55155551554557549.
24:10
I think it's how we had it drawn up as 342.9.
24:15
So we weren't far off. I think what happened was
24:18
there's there's a touch of wind and the first lap was fast
24:22
because of me. I wanted to get out well and
24:27
then let the Pacers go round versus like me waiting for the
24:29
Pacers to go and then sitting. So what we did was we made the
24:33
1st 209 meters A274 with the lights instead of 27 seven.
24:40
So the 27 seven hours are split and 27 four is what we had for
24:43
the first two or nine and then until the 800 mark.
24:46
From that 209 mark we had it at 27/7.
24:50
And then from there we slowed it down to 2785 and then we then we
24:54
picked to back up a little bit to 27.
24:57
Yeah, 27 six, something like that.
24:59
So I knew as soon as I like because I had lots of things
25:02
that I could look at. Like I had the Pacers, I didn't
25:04
have to, I didn't look at the pace of 1st 800.
25:07
And then I had a look at the case split of the 1009 split and
25:13
I was like, yeah. And then I saw 246.
25:16
Anything was fine. And then I was looking at it a
25:20
bit. I saw the 300 ago.
25:21
I needed that at three O 1. Got it.
25:23
Three O 1, anything on the 3/28, Your promised land and then
25:27
straight down the last last 100. So yeah, I mean, there was
25:30
obviously a lot going on, but it was as quick as like peeking at
25:33
it and then coming straight back.
25:35
So yeah, there's a lot of a lot of math going into it, but it
25:39
was it was fun. It was a fun journey.
25:41
When during the build up were you like, oh, I got this like I
25:46
can do this. Look for my own personal
25:49
journey, We went back, we looked at tape.
25:52
I believed in day one in March. I said I think he can do it.
25:56
And then as you did your workouts, I kept analyzing it
26:00
with Chris on the pod. But the 262 workout, that's what
26:04
I was like, oh, we're we're doing it.
26:07
The 206 hundred 203 sets. I think it was.
26:10
That's when for me it clicked. I said, yeah, unless there's a
26:13
thunderstorm, I think Josh has it.
26:15
So for. You until the 1200.
26:19
Yeah, it was that was a great. I mean, those workouts like the
26:23
four eights were a good start. But like I learnt.
26:27
So we have to cut quite a lot from that video because I, I
26:29
just went into it a little bit with Danny during one of the,
26:32
the breaks and I was like, I was like, Danny, like this pace is
26:35
too fast, man. Like as in it's not too fast for
26:38
my body, which is why the rats were able to be on.
26:42
But what happens at like the 300 meters, 400 meters into those
26:46
reps? And what I find was that once I
26:50
relaxed into the pace, thinking like, I've got three more laps
26:54
to go, I was like, that's so far.
26:57
And so I was 600 meters into these 800 reps being like, like
27:01
to have AK left, like I can't wrap my head around that right
27:04
now. That was really hard for me to
27:05
wrap my head around. And so he had already decided
27:09
that we're going to do the 12 on a time trial with Brandon.
27:11
But like, that was that was my, that was my thing.
27:14
But I called him back in April and I was like talking them
27:19
through this and, and this and that.
27:21
And like I wasn't, I was in a bit of a mood.
27:24
And he was like, Josh, I think I believe that you can do this
27:26
more than you can right now. And I was like, he's a realist.
27:29
Danny is not going to blow smoke like guaranteed.
27:32
And so I was like, oh shit. Like that's a big confidence
27:35
boost. Like, you know, we've been in
27:37
shape to do before, like we'll be all right.
27:39
And then, yeah, the workouts were were just like turn up, do
27:43
your job, go home and and not holding too much weight into it.
27:46
And then the other twelve time trial was that was probably the
27:49
easiest one I've done. And then my performance goes,
27:53
goes, you know, I went out to him.
27:54
I was like, I, I wanted that to feel harder and I don't know
27:58
why. And he was like, OK, talk to me
28:00
about that. And I was like, well, I wanted
28:02
it to feel like real, but it doesn't feel real because it
28:06
wasn't that hard. And then the question that he
28:08
kept asking me was, well, what if it was easy?
28:11
And if I'm being honest, like that race wasn't hard.
28:14
Like I've been in hard races, and not to say it wasn't
28:17
difficult on the legs, but like it was just easy.
28:21
It just felt right. And the pace, the body knew what
28:23
the pace was. So yeah, it was just flowing
28:26
through a lot of emotions. But yeah, we, I don't know, the
28:28
144 helped a little bit too. Kyle, you had a question about
28:32
just sort of like training over the last five years and how
28:34
certain things have gotten trendy And so like, what was it
28:37
exactly? Yeah.
28:39
Obviously, given Jakob success the last 5-6 years, Threshold
28:44
has become something that every coach in America and probably
28:49
across the world is saying like we need to do more, we need to
28:51
do more threshold. Given this performance and you
28:55
having a bit of a different training approach to Jakob, what
29:01
would coaches or athletes be wise to take away from what you
29:05
do in your approach? Like is there something trendy?
29:07
It's like, hey, 1200 time trials, that that's the thing to
29:11
do a week out. Or is it, hey, maybe mileage
29:15
isn't everything, you know, 70 miles a week does get the job
29:18
done, whatever it might be. It maybe it's not even on the
29:21
track and something you're actually doing when you're
29:22
running. But what would you hope it is?
29:25
I I hope and you know, the the double threshold and threshold
29:30
training has has a lot of science to it and I get it.
29:33
I just think that sometimes, sometimes athletes are seen as
29:38
the rule when they should be seen as the exception.
29:40
And, and I think, you know, and I'm saying it the same for what
29:44
I just did. Like I'm not telling you this is
29:46
the right way to train. I'm saying it works for me.
29:49
And I think what, what really gets me, I'm going to go off a
29:53
little bit on this bit because I think it's important.
29:56
I understand the threshold training and athletes want to
29:59
run mileage and they want to do this stuff and they want to do
30:01
the lactic testing and they want to like do the whole Instagram
30:03
thing or whatever. Like learning your paces is so
30:06
important as a kid. Like knowing how, how, like if
30:11
your coach should give you effort based stuff and you
30:14
should know what your effort is without having to know what your
30:16
blood lacta is. If you want to start getting
30:19
specific and you're working on one percents, 2 percents, 3
30:21
percents and you want to be really specific on that, that's
30:24
fine. I, I just don't understand
30:26
younger athletes doing the lactate testing because they
30:30
want to be able to be in their zones and stuff.
30:32
Like you need to learn that. You need to, it's like you need
30:34
to learn what pace is you need to run.
30:36
You need to run a 400 and no within at least a second or a
30:39
couple seconds of what split you're going to run.
30:42
Like I think that internalizing of like effort and pace is super
30:46
critical for younger athletes. And so if you want to do like
30:50
higher mileage double sessions, I understand that you don't want
30:53
to go over the limit. But at what level is like a
30:56
coach's job, like to tell them, you know, you need to
30:58
internalize this stuff or else when you get to races, you don't
31:01
know what like if you're going to front run, you don't know
31:03
what split you're going to run. And like, I don't know.
31:06
I just, I dislike that element of it.
31:08
I like people exploring different training modalities,
31:11
but that one just like I don't get that one personally.
31:16
There's two moments from the race that I want it just kind of
31:20
unpack a little bit deeper. One, it's at the starting line,
31:23
like with the 60,000 people, you know, getting ready to watch you
31:27
do this. You do crack a smile, I think
31:29
right before when they announce you.
31:31
And then two, it's with what is it 150 meters to go?
31:35
You go absolutely deaf. Like, and you've said it many
31:39
times and told the story like on this podcast before of just sort
31:41
of like the last time that happened was obviously at the
31:44
the Paris Olympics. What's happening like internally
31:48
in your brain in both of those moments, One where it's sort of
31:51
like you're cracking the smile, and the other time was where
31:53
this feeling that was all too familiar from another great race
31:57
in your career is suddenly happening in this other big
32:00
moment. Yeah, I mean, it's a great
32:02
question. I think, you know, I'm, I'm a
32:03
very present athlete. It's, you know, it's what we
32:06
work on a lot is like, you know, the only thing you can affect is
32:09
right here right now. And, and there's not many times
32:12
in your career where you can have 60,000 people all expect
32:15
you to run a Howard record. Like there's, that's never going
32:17
to happen to me again with the history behind it and
32:20
everything. And I was told to enjoy it.
32:22
Like, you know, it was so fun. Like I had an absolute blast out
32:26
there and I'd done the work, like I'd done the work and I
32:29
knew I was going to, I was going to enter the tank and whatever
32:31
the result was going to be was, was going to be.
32:34
And so it was just time to enjoy it.
32:36
And I was talking to Brandon on the start line, and I was saying
32:39
things to him that I've never realized that he didn't hear.
32:43
And it almost actually changed the trajectory of what we were
32:46
trying to do. So like, going back to what I
32:49
said earlier, like, you know, Jose kept saying that, but what
32:51
if it was easy? So I said the kidder, but what
32:54
if it was easy? And he goes, take it easy, OK.
32:58
I was like, I was like, oh, no, like disaster struck, but you
33:02
know that. So that was really fun.
33:04
I was just taking it in because people were going crazy and they
33:07
cared like again, like I didn't know how much people care.
33:10
Like I actually said something to Brandon and Julian like
33:14
couple days before, like we, we hadn't done the amount of
33:16
Instagram stories that I wanted to do.
33:19
And I was like, people aren't going to know what's going on.
33:21
And Brandon's like there's a lot of content out of there, dude.
33:24
Like it's a big deal. And I was like, oh, OK, that's
33:27
that's good to know. And so like going in the same
33:30
and people like caring, like really matter to me.
33:32
And then with 1:50 to go, yeah, again like I just wasn't
33:38
fighting the body. Like the big thing that we work
33:39
on, and I would recommend for younger athletes or anyone
33:43
really, like we work on a non judgmental like mind.
33:47
And so, you know, whatever emotions come up, like we greet
33:51
at the door and we welcome them in and we explain to them why
33:54
they should be there. And, and like, so when doubt
33:57
comes in, it's like, OK, like any comic, I understand why
33:59
you're dying, run out of anxiousness comes in like you're
34:01
like, OK, like that's OK. But these are the reasons that
34:04
we've worked and we're ready to go.
34:06
And then they kind of just flow through.
34:07
So nothing's super sticky. And so, yeah, the, the hearing
34:11
thing is a weird one just because in Paris it happened so
34:14
early and in that one it happened so late.
34:16
And so I think it has to be mental versus physical.
34:19
I'm exploring it a little bit. I'm not too sure.
34:22
But it just, you know, again, it felt like a little bit like I
34:25
was out of the body just kind of watching myself do it.
34:27
And my body knew what 55 pace was after running it so many
34:31
times. It's like it wasn't too
34:32
difficult to hit this hit the splits and I was just having a
34:35
good time. Josh, in terms of hyping the
34:38
crowd up in the lead in and everything.
34:40
So I've been on a big kick where I say we need to give athletes
34:43
microphones more often. Like I think you did a great job
34:47
in giving a very inspiring speech about the next generation
34:51
and what they should take away from it right after.
34:54
So I guess was that fun? Was that difficult?
34:58
Did you already know what you're going to say in that moment?
35:00
But also, would you ever hype a crowd up before a race if we
35:02
gave you a microphone? I mean, I had a good time.
35:07
I think it was nice to be able to speak to every like, because
35:10
I was just kind of shouting at my own family and like, like my
35:13
people. And there was still an event to
35:17
go. And so like I'd said, this is
35:20
Spencer. I was like, we should go last.
35:21
And he, I think what his dream scenario was is that I pumped
35:25
the crowd up enough for the world record that Keely would
35:27
then go like have an electric crowds come into.
35:30
What realistically happened was we got it.
35:33
Everyone was going crazy. We couldn't settle people down
35:35
and they were standing on the start line for an extra 15
35:38
minutes. Like that's how it ended up
35:39
happening. So I felt bad about that one.
35:41
But yeah, I think it, it was really fun.
35:45
And, and did I rehearse it? No, but I but kind of like I, I
35:50
knew someone would ask me the question, like, what did you do
35:52
this for? And if I'm being honest, like
35:57
I've done, I've felt like I've done a lot for like my family's
36:02
situation and like financially being able to make, you know,
36:05
like money for like my future and my future kids and things
36:08
like that. And you know, there's
36:10
definitely, we're at a point now where I'm doing it for me.
36:13
Like I like, I know that it's selfish at this point, like, but
36:17
I'm not doing it for me. Like now I'm doing it for like
36:19
8-9 year old Josh. Like there was like going to the
36:22
going to the Meadowbank Stadium on a, on a dark night with my
36:25
parents driving me there and in the stands, like with a dream
36:29
and like, that's who I did it for.
36:31
And so I wanted that to come across to to people that need
36:36
that inspiration right now. And like, you know, that may be
36:38
struggling with an injury or maybe being like, there's no way
36:41
I could do that. Like, you know, you have to
36:44
start somewhere. And so I just wanted to make
36:46
sure that that that came across a little bit.
36:49
Two quick ones to close it out. He shot Melgourouge.
36:52
Has he reached out? He was supposed to be there.
36:56
I heard he wasn't allowed in the country.
36:59
I don't know what happened. No, he hasn't reached out.
37:03
I don't, I've never talked to him or, or whatever.
37:06
I, you know, I, I, it was his record.
37:09
But like, I just always viewed it as like, I always just
37:12
thought of Roger Bannister. Like I just kept thinking like
37:15
he's just the greatest of all time.
37:17
Like he was the reason that people care about the mile and I
37:21
think. And so I just thought that that
37:23
was just the guy I kept thinking about and but no, I've never
37:27
spoken to him before, never had any contact.
37:29
So I, I got told that he took his office at Instagram bio.
37:34
So I don't know, he's been respect, I guess.
37:37
And then the final thing is, when's the when's the next 15?
37:42
It's a good question. Obviously got to call me just
37:43
next week, Wednesday, Saturday of next week, which I'm super
37:47
excited about. And then it's like, you know,
37:50
we'll be very transparent and host.
37:53
Call me. So sad.
37:54
I'll be Saturday. I'll have more media to do.
37:56
I think Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. And then, you know, I'm going to
38:00
sit down, have a meeting with Julian and and Danny and just,
38:04
you know, chat about what's possible.
38:06
Really. I know that Ray's kind of been
38:09
on on Air World Ultimates a little bit for a wild card
38:13
because I just have absolutely no point in my world rankings,
38:16
like a million, so nowhere near it.
38:19
So yeah, I, I don't know, I would love to keep going.
38:21
I feel fresh. I feel good.
38:23
Men say I'm in a really good spot.
38:25
I'm having a great time with it. And I just want to race like I
38:28
want to keep keep the momentum going.
38:29
But also there's this element of flying too close to the sun that
38:32
that Danny's worried about. And I get that.
38:34
So yeah, there might have to be a bit of a balance with it all,
38:37
but I want to keep going. And as soon as we have those
38:40
race plans, it will be announced 100%.
38:43
Perfect. Well, Josh, we always appreciate
38:45
you making time for us and it's been really cool to celebrate so
38:48
many big moments in your career, whether it's at Milrose Games or
38:52
at in Paris at the Olympics with you.
38:53
And now here to when you get to call yourself a world record
38:57
holder. So always, always a blast and
38:59
always a pleasure. Thank you guys.
39:01
Appreciate it. All right, that's a wrap on
39:04
today's episode. Thanks for listening, for the
39:07
time, the curiosity, and for making this show part of your
39:10
routine or your run. A big thanks to our producer
39:13
Jasmine Fair and to everyone behind the scenes who helps make
39:16
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39:18
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We'll see you next time. Thanks again for listening.