Latest / The YMyHealth Podcast | Wellness and Healthcare Insights for Millennials / Testicular Cancer Survivor Story: Ben Freeberg
Transcript
- Melissa Schenkman (00:42) Alright, we will get started. First of all, I so appreciate you taking the time to do this. Thank you. And when I saw you do your standup routine, when we were at the Young Health Leaders Summit… I've got to talk to this guy. This will be perfect for YMyHealth. And also, I was so interested, just myself outside of YMyHealth, because it's not every day that somebody takes their life experience and uses it to drive what they want to do professionally and to make Ben Freeberg (00:47) Of course. Speaker 2 (01:14) I really appreciate that. Melissa Schenkman (01:15) You're very, very welcome. And I know it's not easy on either end with my health as well, but so incredibly, incredibly needed. So the first place I kind of wanted to start with you is kind of in your life, where has health been as a priority? Ben Freeberg (01:31) So, it's so funny. I think there was so much about my life before, I guess folks don't even know yet that I had cancer myself. But health has always been something that is just so paramount to how I want to live my life. Like I was always growing up. I was never a video game kid. I always would rather just throw a ball outside with someone. And when I had the choice and even when I didn't do everything I could to exercise and be outdoors and eat healthy when you can. Melissa Schenkman (02:08) Nice, very, very nice. And before your diagnosis, kind of what was your perception and knowledge about testicular cancer, about its occurrence, all of that? Ben Freeberg (02:02) Nothing in just an unbelievable way where, mean, folks have talked about how important early detection and everything is and how you should test yourself and go to your physician, but you never think it's going to happen to you. And I was a young, active, healthy kid. Why would I go out of my way to learn about all of these other pieces where it's a small percentage of it ever happening to me? I don't smoke cigarettes. Don't consistently fast food like all the things that would lead to that. I just didn't think I was going to experience. Melissa Schenkman (02:57) No, no, absolutely. And did you have any family history at all? Wow. Wow. So you were very much in the dark about before. Wow. And if you could tell us kind of a little bit about your story of diagnosis and what the official diagnosis ended up being at the time. Ben Freeberg (03:19) So I was diagnosed with stage 3A. It was after actually I, a year earlier, I was at a dinner and I just passed out at the dinner and I was sober. It was just a regular day. Nothing had happened. So I went to the hospital. I was like, something's wrong with me. And they were like, nothing's wrong. You're fine. You just passed out. I was like, but I'm incredibly active and healthy. And I wasn't doing anything differently. And they said, okay, we'll do some tests. I was like, okay, thank you. Literally what I came here for. And we did a few tests, nothing came back. And it turns out that was almost to the day a year to, the onset. And if we caught it there, I would have avoided chemotherapy. I would have avoided two surgeries. I ended up having blood clots in my lungs. And it was just all these pieces that made the cancer journey so difficult. And yeah, maybe I like wouldn't be here doing this fund today. If it weren't for how bad the experience was for me, but wow, was it frustrating to, I'm literally sitting there as a young, I was 24 at the time kid telling these doctors something is wrong with my body, please test me. And then being like, you're crazy and just go home and relax. I was like, I don't think going home and relaxing is what's going to stop the cancer from spreading. But it was a tough, it was a tough start. Melissa Schenkman (04:44) Wow, wow. And not hardly. And you know what? There is actually, I think it was last week, there was a story someone had sent me on PBS. And it's literally about young people going and finding these different things that are not the norm for them. And then people say, oh, you're crazy. There's nothing, there's nothing going on. And then later you find out, yeah, there is something going on. I know, I know what I'm talking about. So no, that's, that's a really, really, really great point. And this is such a common theme, which is the problem. Ben Freeberg (05:15) And it doesn't stop at the early detection, right? It's have to be your own care advocate throughout the entire journey. And it's, I had, I was treated, I ended up being treated at Memorial Sloan Kettering, one of the best cancer centers in the world. And I had good health insurance and I had my friends and family here and I understood the healthcare system at least at a high level. And it was impossible to navigate. And I had everything you could want and need and my able body. It just, take out any one of those things, take out not being able to afford a ride to the hospital, take out not being able to afford or pay for even understand that you should be eating healthy food and the insurance to cover the treatment. it's just, it's unfair. I know that wasn't your question, but. Melissa Schenkman (06:03) But no, excellent point and true. This is what people are dealing with all the time and people will be able to relate to because it is. I constantly hear about people who are educated at a high level of the system. They didn't have a background in healthcare. It's not what they did professionally, but they knew enough compared to some other people. And it was still so challenging to deal on a constant basis. And what were your initial thoughts? Cause here you are, you're this young guy, like living your life on the go. What in the world, what were your initial thoughts about all of this once you find out? Ben Freeberg (06:38) It all happened very, very quickly. And I don't know, you just, you just deal with it. mean, your, your thoughts and worries. It's just once you're worried about what the diagnosis is, then you get the diagnosis and then they can't, they're not giving you percentages. Like I remember asking all the time, like, okay, what, what's the chance? And he's like, I can't, they just, can't give that to you. Uh, and so it was just, I think the fear of the unknown. Um, and it was also like, I was just on vacation. Like I was on vacation with a job I liked with friends and I was going out and partying and then I couldn't leave the hospital for a week. What a crazy term for doing nothing. I just, just like that. so yeah, it's just, I, I really, I wish I was better at cataloging my thoughts, through it. And I, as you know, I just ended up comedy and I wrote a bit, about it, but it didn't perfectly encapsulate how I was feeling and thinking at the time, because again, in terms of priorities, you just want to be able to breathe. Melissa Schenkman(07:46) Exactly. No, exactly. And what was your experience kind of at the time and even as you were getting more into treatment, like finding resources about this type of cancer and your age for people like yourself? Ben Freeberg (08:01) So honestly, I really did try to stay off Google because it was not good. It's it's people, no one's, for every one person that's on there with validated clinically relevant information, trying to make you feel comfortable, there are a hundred people out there freaking out, sharing rumors, upset or frustrated. And so I didn't spend a lot of time .I will say one of the things I did do that I loved is I joined Imermen Angels, which is a peer to peer cancer support group. And Johnny has Johnny and has become a close friend. And they match you with someone with the same exact diagnosis as you down to like, they found me someone down to my blood clot, same stage, same treatment, same chemo. And he went through everything with I should check in with him. I'm going to send him a note after this. I was just the whole time if he went through the same thing as me, but he didn't have insurance. And so if he did that without like, without really a lot of family there, and it was years ago. And so it was actually quite helpful because he was like, yeah, okay, this week, you're going to feel bad that you're make sure you stay really hydrated. This is actually where you're sought to feel a little bit nauseous, maybe have the doctors proactively give you some anti nausea meds and things like that. Melissa Schenkman(09:27) Very nice and very, very helpful. Imerman is phenomenal and Johnny is phenomenal. know him as well. I am sure that to have somebody who had actually gone through it with all the specifics, what a difference at a time like that, that that can make for sure, for sure. And then for your family, I know you were saying you had your family and your friends kind of, what was it like sharing your diagnosis with them? Ben Freeberg (09:54) Everyone showed up. I think there was a lot of people I've tried with where unfortunately like they lose people, friends, family. I mean, there were a few friends of friends who like sent me notes or asked people to relay messages saying, don't do the whole chemotherapy thing. You should take these herbal remedies. And so there was some of that. It's just unfortunate that that, that that spreads and not to, not to knock it and say that don't do whatever you can, but chemotherapy and radiation and surgeries work. Like we are clinically getting there and curing and treating cancer. If you are diagnosed, go to an oncologist to get treated for your cancer. so everyone was just so supportive. I mean, we had parties in the hospital room. It was awesome. Like on the chemo floor, people would come and we'd bring games and it's, this is also what it was. So I couldn't even imagine folks going through this during COVID because you have to go there alone and you're just, it's, it means if anyone who's listening and reading this has someone in their life that's going through cancer right now, just call them or text them. Don't ask them anything. Don't ask them how they're doing. They're not doing well. Well, chances are. And even if they are like, they just, you don't want to put them in a position where you give them a task, but showing up and checking in and calling, my God. It's just, also like treat them like a human being. I think that the best thing that all my friends and family did was I wasn't coddled. I wasn't like people still like made fun of me and still like it, I don't know. I think I might be different in that regard to some others, but yeah, just treat people with respect and reach out. And I think everyone in my life very much did that. Melissa Schenkman (11:50) That's wonderful. And that makes a huge difference too. With everyone that I've spoken with, said they just want to be, you know, they want the support, but they want to just be treated like normal, like before as much as possible. It just helps so much in the process. And far as your treatment options, obviously you were saying about chemo and surgery, was just kind of wondering what was presented to you initially as options and kind of how did you navigate which things you were going to do? Ben Freeberg (12:18) I think I ended up just, I got like a semi second opinion. I trusted that the doctor I was going to was one of the best in the country for it. And it was a tried and true chemo regimen that has a high cure rate. There was a bit of back and forth on what surgeries I needed at the time and what I would need, but I just, if you're gonna trust your oncologist, trust your oncologist. It's actually quite unfortunate and tough because there are a lot of perverse incentives out there and there are, you know, still, there's a lot of ways that folks get reimbursed and paid for and covered on the insurance side, on the farmer side, on the oncologist side that, you know, you have to make sure you can't really unfortunately put full trust into it. But in my case, luckily, I was, I was able to do so. Melissa Schenkman (13:06) That's a very, very fortunate and great point there. And so if you could tell us a little bit about what you did, how much did you, how many rounds of chemo, things like that, just to give people an idea of what you had to go through? Ben Freeberg (13:17) How many rounds did I do? I think I did four. Four rounds of atoposide and cisplatin. It made me neutropenic. So I didn't have enough white blood cells to fight infection. And it was hard. Like you have to also, the part that was so hard to was, and this is like, I was in New York City, it was like a 10 minute cab ride away. Waking up at like 6, 6.30 in the morning. Melissa Schenkman (13:20) Okay. Ben Freeberg (13:45) To go pay for a cab, to go wait in a hospital, to then go for four hours, have someone pumping you. Like, there were no veins left in my arms. They had to start like going into my hands and that really hurts. And you're just like, to wake up in the morning to go somewhere where they are just pumping drugs that are saving your life, but also killing you is really, really hard. And so there are just so many different pieces of it that I don't think a lot of folks unfortunately fully appreciate on how difficult that journey is because what are you going to do? You're going to not go. You're like going to not go get your drug, but we're still at a point where a lot of folks are non-adherent. I mean, for chemo in hospital chemo, we're pretty close to like 97 % adherence, which is great for drugs and enrichment, but for oral chemotherapy and stuff that's delivered at home, it's close to 50%. And it's just everything from like issues on refilling your medication to cost. So a lot, a lot we could do to make sure that folks who are diagnosed have a treatment, actually follow through with it and get back to their, get back to their lives. Melissa Schenkman (15:01) Absolutely, absolutely. No, and there are so many barriers to cost, I think for younger people as well. What did they tell you in terms of considerations about having children? Because, we obviously with women, we've interviewed people, they had ovarian cancer and this was a big concern in fertility. And that's not something that I would take a guess was on your mind at that point in your life. Like it was not on theirs. Kind of what did they… to come back and talk to you about in terms of what their different options or things that you had to do in addition to treatment itself. Ben Freeberg (15:36) I wish it was done earlier. Um, they did bring it up, which was nice, but it was, mean, I had blood clots in both my lungs and we had to start chemo ASAP. So there, there wasn't a ton of time. Um, and yet it wasn't something that I really thought. What is it? Like was 24. I have plenty of time and it just, there were a lot of little moments like that where you just. It makes you think about everything differently. Melissa Schenkman (16:10) Of course, no, of course, of course. And far as some of the physical and emotional challenges that you face kind of during the treatment journey, if you could talk a little bit about those in conjunction with kind of how all of this at the time affected your professional life and your social life, right? Because you're in the prime of your life of doing all those things. How all of that intersected as well. Ben Freeberg (16:37) So on the friend side, that I don't think anything changed. I think to the other point, everyone was there and showed up and I live in New York City and yeah, there is a lot that I realized. was like, wow, like most when you're 24 to honestly 30 and it's plans are drinking somewhere. Like you're just. You just start going somewhere to drink alcohol or someone's hosting you to drink alcohol or going out to dinner where half the bill is alcohol. Like there are just so many different things where it's just, it's not very New York City social scene is not very accommodating to people undergoing cancer treatment. I will say that I think everyone did a great job. But I also, like you just, you have to just. You don't have a choice, right? Like you could have to be pissed about it or you could deal with it and find other ways people things to do. So I would say that that was all honestly fine. Family was good. The work stuff, the job I had at the time I was working for a venture fund and they were incredibly understanding. still covered my salary. I, during off weeks of chemo, when I had the willingness and energy to work, I chimed in when and where I could, which was great. So I ended up doing, actually I ended up not really taking that much time off, but I also think I was fortunate with the way I reacted to chemo. Yeah, it definitely did feel like your life is on pause a little bit in a time where not only do you not want to be on pause, you want to be accelerating. But I will say that as soon as I was finished with my treatment and surgeries, there's nothing that pushes you more. Then like a near death experience where you learn what's important and where there's opportunities for you to differentiate yourself. Melissa Schenkman (18:35) And I remember you saying something I feel like in your comedy routine about something about with your hair. Because when we were talking about you being with, I was going to ask you about like what physical challenges did you face kind of during treatment and then after a little bit after. So if you could talk a little bit about that. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was something interesting. Hair color maybe? Was that changed or something? Ben Freeberg (18:59) So I have, if people are just listening and not seeing, I have red hair. And one of the jokes was about how I lost all my hair, but it came back. It did come back thicker, but it still came back red, which is, just, when it first started growing back, it looked like bleach blonde. And it was really cool. was like, like this is all, the whole cancer thing was worth it. Like now I have cool blonde hair, but that only lasted until the first haircut, which is actually really interesting. But yeah, and you lose hair in like weird ways. like I, all the hair, beard kept the eyebrows, which is nice. Sometimes those stay or go. And then like on arms and legs, I lost half the hair. So it's just like, there's just so many weird things and quirks that again, for like certain people, like there's so many emotional, like to me, all of that was whatever, but yeah, getting. The way hair falls out when you're going through chemo is it doesn't just all fall out. I remember I was in the shower and I put my hand through my hair and then there was just one day just a clump of it. I was like, oh no, it was one of those moments where was like, oh my God, this is real. There is a drug that is really infiltrating my body and I really have cancer. And then it starts hurting. And so I ended up having to, like your hair hurts. It's this very weird thing where if you like talk to people that went through it, it's just, it's really annoying. And so I ended up just going to get it shaved completely off. And I remember that moment because I kept going into different barbers being like, Hey, I have cancer and I have a free buzz. And they were like, no. And I was like, what do you mean? No. They're like, how do we know you really have cancer? was like, I would like take like something off my head and be like, listen, like this is gonna fall out, can you please just shave my head? I am in actual pain. And it took me four different barbers and one guy, the boss said no, and the barber was like, can you just cool it? And he just took me. And that was my barber for like six years. Sometimes people come out of the woodworks to help and then sometimes it's just, so give me my 20 bucks for the haircut. So. Melissa Schenkman (21:18) That is no that is a good you should put that in the comedy routine which we're gonna talk about if you haven't already. Just to know just something to think but you know in terms of you know obviously you're really a positive person that both in talking to you now when we talked before kind of how did you keep up maintaining that positive spirit during everything as much as you could. Ben Freeberg (21:24) I have not actually. (says while laughing) Ben Freeberg (21:44) I mean, one, it's really hard. it, I wasn't positive the whole time. It's cancer. Like it's really, really tough. I really did make the decision. I was like, I could either be sad and have cancer or not be sad and still have cancer. And so there were a few things I did where one, you take your non-cancer moments. So like in the shower, when you're in the shower, taking a shower, like it doesn't matter if you have cancer. Like you're. Yeah, obviously, like if you're in a lot of pain or it's a really tough day and you're feeling faint, those times it's really tough, but most of the time it's nice. like things like that, playing games with friends, again, they didn't let me win. You have to fight for it. But like taking those like little moments that you're like, okay, this is regardless of what's happening, I'd be doing the same thing in the same manner. Those moments were really nice. I tried, it was really hard to read actually, unfortunately, like it's just hard to concentrate. There's a drug that's killing all your blood cells. But when you do, I spend time reading about like, I go back and forth about whether this part was the right, like train of thought, but people have it worse. Like I had a curable cancer that I was getting treated in the right way. And so honestly, spending more time with other cancer patients. And then there's also like, cancer is just one thing. People are dealing with their own stuff everywhere in the US and the world. so just really putting all of it into perspective, being like so many people, think, and a little bit I did too, right? Like the ‘why me?,’ like really, like what did I do? But no one wants to be sick or not afford something or not be able to do, obviously really putting that into perspective and, you know, just trying to look at the positive side. Melissa Schenkman (23:41.15) That's great. And after you finished active treatment, kind of what was that transition like to post treatment life and what are some of the challenges you've faced and things you've had to do to keep up with checking? Ben Freeberg (23:53) My god, it's so funny. I'm literally writing right now. It'll be posted. I'm almost done with it. If I finish it in time, it'll be posted tomorrow morning. Reflecting on my cancer journey and how my life has changed pre and post. I would say the biggest thing is that really during treatment, it was just so nice being outside. I was just happy being outside. It didn't matter. I was in a hospital, so I was good. And then afterwards… I was like, wow, like, okay, now that I'm not doing this, like now that I'm not on blood thinners anymore, not that I'm wrong, could like go and have a drink again and I can go and I like went for a jog and like being able to do all these things. was like, wow, life's amazing. And then it gets less amazing. Like it's just, it's just like anything like time, time heals everything, but also time like brings you back to like slowly it happened where I started getting annoyed by things again. I like started getting frustrated by things where like if those things happen to me during cancer, even though I've been like, okay, like whatever, like just brush it off because that is the least of my worries right now. So I try to when I can, but it's really hard. Melissa Schenkman (25:07) Sure. No, absolutely. Ben Freeberg (25:09) That’s okay. Melissa Schenkman (25:11) Yeah. No, no, no. Because well, it, it, and it just kind of goes to show, cause it is, you have two totally different perspectives for what, what's a big deal. Right. And then after, yeah, I was going to say, so, you know, if you could speak to that a little bit of, know, how would you say having it at a young age that you did in your twenties, how has that changed your perspective as a whole? And it sounds like that's what you're in the midst of writing. Ben Freeberg (25:17) Mm-hmm. Melissa Schenkman (25:37) A little bit. Ben Freeberg (25:38) Yeah, it definitely, it matures you a bit like I think as a young, active, white male in like a finance sector, you feel a little like, like, like people have problems, but I don't have problems. Yeah. And it was just like, the biggest wake up call of Yeah, you do. Like, and also it matters that everyone does. And so I think it actually made me a lot more empathetic, a lot more appreciative, a lot more like, okay, I should be spending my time doing things that matter with people that I enjoy spending time with, but also like making sure that you're comfortable spending time alone. I don't know. It's just. I was always seize the day, like I always was someone who tried to fit 10 plans into two plans and bring three different groups together when I was only supposed to have plans with one. Like I always did that. Sometimes that annoys people. Sometimes people appreciate it, but. Melissa Schenkman (26:46) Same way so I can relate to what you're saying completely. But yeah, yeah, no, that's a very that's a very very interesting perspective on it. You're welcome. Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. And that is because I think so many of us try to not everybody but a lot of people try to fit so much into your time on a on a regular basis. But now you know, you're are we going on? know five years are you going on year six of Survivorship? Ben Freeberg (27:15) Yeah. I, on January, it was January 8th, almost six years ago. So this January 8th will be six years from, from, from diagnosis. Melissa Schenkman (27:28) You guys know this as well. Congratulations, first of all, major congratulations. Now, as you are looking back almost six years, which is amazing, next month, know, one thing I was wondering about is, what do you wish your peers out in the world who haven't had cancer or another chronic type of condition, any type of major experience with a medical condition, you know, what would you want them to understand? about testicular cancer and also just life as a young cancer survivor. Ben Freeberg (27:59) So one, if you think something's wrong, like really push for the right treatment and tests because people always ask me, I'm gonna give myself a different first question first. Like what your magic wand is for cancer and early detection. Like if we can detect all cancers in stage one instead of three and four, meaning just like for folks, it means that it hasn't spread. Like just the, higher the stage, the more, not only more, difficult it is to treat more expensive, is the worst, outcomes, it actually for breast cancer in particular, if we find breast cancer in stage one, 97 to 99 % survival rate, if we wait until stage three and four, that goes down to sub 30%. And so it, we're literally talking about chances of life. And so. If we could detect it early and then we could also match folks to the treatment that are already out there, that's an amazing opportunity to improve where we are. So I would say for folks to know, just one, like just enjoy, like life is, it's just people get upset about things that, you know, you don't need to get upset about. And I know it's hard and difficult, but as much as you can spend time putting things into perspective and chatting with folks who are going through it and like, I think so many people just need to hear and see it. Like I've talked to people at certain healthcare strategics that I won't like go into who, but they've said, they've said stuff to me where I was like, wow, like go, go to a chem award and go say that to the face of a patient and their loved ones. Like go do that, go, go have that conversation and then tell me what you just said again and like, tell me how you feel. And so I think it's really easy to be disassociated in a way where I think just more people should just spend time learning, like knowledge is power in so many different ways. I would say it's the biggest, biggest piece. Melissa Schenkman (30:01) Absolutely, extremely well said. And it's true, unless you have either been in that person's shoes or you've gone and spent time with people who are going through treatment and know, you know, what day to day life is like. I'm sure those conversations that you had were most interesting. But yeah, from having talked to so many people throughout my career, I've had a much greater inside view, even though I have not. I had cancer myself, but it is, it's totally different perspective. Julie Woon (30:34) Now we’d like to take a minute to talk about today’s sponsor. Diekman Dysautonomia. Have you or a loved one been struggling with symptoms like fainting, a racing heart or crushing fatigue only to feel dismissed or unheard by doctors? You may be experiencing dysautonomia POTS or long COVID. Dr. Sarah Diekman understands because she has been there. As someone who faced POTS during medical school, Dr. Diekman knows firsthand the frustration of searching for answers. 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And so what we're doing is investing into startups that are improving care research outcomes in the care setting today. So the goal is how do we, there are people smarter than me investing in the next drugs, therapeutics, medical devices. That's all amazing. But today we're still at a point where cancer care is too expensive and outcomes aren't there. And so everything we're doing is trying to get applied, implemented, commercialized into the care and research setting today. Melissa Schenkman (32:19) Which is absolutely wonderful and so, so needed because it'll make the journey just as you all know, so much smoother and obviously save lives. I believe so. I believe and I do, I do very, very much. It's all about the healthcare system is just so complex the way it's become and there's just so many barriers. And if you can break down those barriers, it makes all the difference. Ben Freeberg (32:31) I think so. Melissa Schenkman (32:51) quality of life and saving lives. And I know also we were mentioning how you do comedy as well. And I had the pleasure of seeing that at the Young Health Leaders Summit back in August. And I was just really curious what made you decide to kind of incorporate parts of your experience in your routines. It's really effective. Ben Freeberg (33:08) One, I felt like I had to. Like I just like, in order to stay sane, you just, have to make it funny because if it's not funny, it's really sad. And so, and then I also do think it was like a people need to hear it. Yeah. And it's like, why not use what I think I'm pretty good at sometimes. Why not use that to try to make, make folks feel easier and just know that like it's just so easy to feel so alone in so much of it where if I could give folks something to laugh about or connect on, it'd be really interesting. Melissa Schenkman (33:46) Final question for you, but it's two part questions. So I'll tell you upfront, but I really would like to get some of your advice for our audience. know you've given some, a little bit more before we, we finished talking. And the first part is what would you, in terms of advice, what would you offer to millennials members of, Gen Z now? who've recently been diagnosed or in the midst of treatment. What are some key tips that you would like to share with them? Ben Freeberg (34:17) So first, it's so easy to get so sad and frustrated about so many different things. There is so much research out there that has proven that if you treat your body well, you spend as much time as you can outside, seeing water, seeing nature, eating healthy food, laughing, spending time with loved ones, and just relaxing. As difficult as that is, it will improve your outcomes. And so it's just the more you get stressed and sad, it's your body doesn't like, it's just like your body doesn't like sugar. Your body doesn't like sadness and anger and frustration. And if, and when you can treat your body as well as you can and make sure that your friends and your family, if you're fortunate to have, have those in your life are aware of that and don't be afraid to ask. Like I, I think I wasn't selfish enough during it. Like I just, still felt bad asking for things and like everyone wants to help truly. Well, I, that's my attitude. And then think you could well that into existence as well. And so just giving folks the opportunity to do so, even if it's something small and also honestly giving back and like, like joined in with angels and a mentor, like there's so many different things where. Honestly, even though it feels like it's the absolute last thing you should do is like spending time doing charity or any of that. think it actually is one of the more important times to, to do it. And then unfortunately you have to be your own care advocate. Like, do not be afraid to speak up. Do not be afraid to, if you read something, heard something, saw something, bring that up to your nurse, to your oncologist. Hopefully there's so many amazing patient advocacy groups too that are looking for different patients to support. So would say, know, really don't be shy, don't be selfish. It's your life. Do whatever you can to give yourself the best fighting shot and the chances of you offending someone or over-asking, over-reaching are so low when you're going through it. There was a I forget what org I forget what org did it But they gave out cancer cards like they actually gave out like when people like make the joke of I'm gonna play my cancer cart like they actually gave those out to people and so like don't be afraid to use your cancer card like just it's really tough and if people get frustrated or mad then So be it but yeah, that's I think that's the advice and also take all my advice with a grain of salt. Melissa Schenkman (37:04) Your sense of humor shines through. No, that's great advice. Really, really great advice. And I think those are definitely even for us and the different pieces we've done, people have not mentioned several of those things that you mentioned. I really appreciate sharing with people. Yep. No, those are, those are excellent pieces of advice. And, and the final part to my question, my two part question here is kind of now in thinking about millennials and Gen Z men and women out there who have not had cancer, you know, when it comes to being proactive about their health in general, practically educating themselves, what would you advise? And I know we are the most, I say all the time on the go, our generation, seriously on the go busy people. so prioritizing health is not always the easiest. So I really would love to hear from you, what you think about that and, how to motivate us, you know, and how we should proactively educate. Ben Freeberg (38:05) Yeah, 100%. And I'm sorry for this is the bad part of like doing comedy about this because as soon as you were saying that my like gut reaction was I thought you were gonna end the question with like, if they don't like should they get it? Like, is it worth getting? No, I I actually made that joke, during a meeting. They said something and I made some bad joke about when I was deciding whether or not to get cancer and they were like, wait, what? was like, obviously I didn't choose to get cancer. It's one that like, it's it's like a luck of the draw one that I had. So I don't know. I would say there's a few things that have been proven. Don't smoke cigarettes, like really don't. Like there's just, I didn't and I still got it so it's not an end all be all, but it is the number one cause. Don't go into tanning beds. Like there's just so many things where like people, don't worry about like the, my God, did you know like diet Coke, if you have it once a week could cause cancer. Like that stuff, sure, try to limit things that you know aren't purely good for you when you can. But like the things that we know are definitely not going to help and very much hurt like eating unhealthy, like not exercising, like smoking, like doing tanning beds, like not wearing sunscreen. Just give yourself a fighting, a fighting shot and, and make sure again, hammering home the early detection piece. I also as a young, healthy fit person, I like didn't really go into the doctor a lot to get like regular checkups because I was fine. Right? Making sure that you are staying on top of your health on a medical way and getting the right scams at the right times. And this is what's really hard is like people will ask me like, so if I was to go get a scan right now, which I do is like, it's unfortunately still at the point where it's not that easy. There are a lot of really interesting companies trying to make it that easy. but go to your doctor. I'm also, can't give clinical advice, but go to your doctor and you know, check in and talk with them and make sure that you're not just doing everything you can outside of outside of those checkups, also making sure that, you know, they're aware and at least, you know, hopefully getting the right testing done. Melissa Schenkman (40:26) No, absolutely. Excellent points because it is, it is so important to prioritize it and figuring out how to make it that priority and which things to focus on. And those are all excellent things to focus on is really important. It's really key for each of us. But, this was a fantastic conversation. Ben Freeberg (40:45) Thank you.