Latest / Best of Business / Sarah Trotman, ONZM: What failure teaches us

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Sarah Trotman, ONZM: What failure teaches us · Best of Business

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  Speaker 2: would introduce Calm McDonald, but Kyle apparently has somewhere else
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  Speaker 2: better to be than here tonight. Don't know where, don't
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  Speaker 2: in the meantime it's my very great pleasure to introduce
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  Speaker 2: a doctor Emma Woodward. We've had her on the show before.
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  Speaker 2: She's back. Dr Eimer, It's lovely to have you back here.
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  Speaker 3: It's lovely to be back.
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  Speaker 2: And this is going to be one of the last
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  Speaker 2: times because you were you were immigrating back to where
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  Speaker 2: you immigrated from.
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  Speaker 3: I am I'm going to head back to my own
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  Speaker 3: t and YI for a short period of time, so
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  Speaker 3: I'm going to head back to England on Friday for
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  Speaker 3: an undisclosed amount of time, but for a really good reason.
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  Speaker 3: So but yeah, it's a sad, sad week because it's
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  Speaker 3: the week where you're realizing how much you're leaving behind
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  Speaker 3: and you haven't realized what you're goinging yet.
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  Speaker 2: Well, look, we have loved having you on and it's
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  Speaker 2: most that you can come and do one last show
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  Speaker 2: with us. But I hope that maybe who knows, we
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  Speaker 2: can have you back at some point in the future,
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  Speaker 2: So willing Now, Look, I guess tonight, where's many different titles.
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  Speaker 2: In fact, I think we'll actually probably let her tell
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  Speaker 2: us about them herself as we get into the story.
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  Speaker 2: But she is well known to many throughout the country
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  Speaker 2: through her business endeavors as well as her roles with
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  Speaker 2: local government. Her name is Sarah Trottman. She is here
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  Speaker 2: with us here in our Auckland studio tonight. Sarah, good evening,
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the show.
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  Speaker 4: It's great to be here, Thank you so much, Hamish
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  Speaker 4: looking forward to it.
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  Speaker 2: So look, this is where we kick things off and
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  Speaker 2: begin by asking you tell us a little bit about yourself.
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  Speaker 2: Where were you born, where'd you grow up?
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  Speaker 4: So I was born in the mighty Lower Heart and
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  Speaker 4: grew up in Wellington. So I went to Saint Michael's
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  Speaker 4: and Tita Catholic Primary School and then Saint Mary's just
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  Speaker 4: opposite Parliament in Wellington Catholic Girls School. And at the
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  Speaker 4: ripe old age of fifteen, I'm showing my angel weebit
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  Speaker 4: because to mention school c as opposed to NCAA level one,
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  Speaker 4: I think it is.
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  Speaker 2: I did school cee as well. Yeah, that's all good.
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  Speaker 4: And my mother who went on actually to be she
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  Speaker 4: was a school teacher at the time and went on
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  Speaker 4: to be principal. But she said to me, if you
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  Speaker 4: don't get school, see, you're leaving school. And I thought,
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  Speaker 4: oh gosh, I bed to do a bit of study.
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  Speaker 4: So I did a bit of study and I got
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  Speaker 4: school see by two marks, and she said you're out anyway,
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  Speaker 4: So which wasn't the deal, I might add. And so
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  Speaker 4: I went actually to work for a business that my
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  Speaker 4: father had taken over because they owed him some money.
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  Speaker 4: And I ended up being with that firm for about
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  Speaker 4: fifteen years and thoroughly enjoyed it and used to sort
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  Speaker 4: of feel a bit embarrassed, to be honest about the
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  Speaker 4: fact that I never went to university like all my
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  Speaker 4: clever friends and my four very clever siblings. I think
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  Speaker 4: they've all got two or three degrees each. And then
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  Speaker 4: I realized, actually, when I went on to become a
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  Speaker 4: mentor with Business Mentors, and as you know, i'm Chief
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  Speaker 4: Executive Business Mentors, now I realized that actually we've got
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  Speaker 4: a nation of small businesses, business owners that are generating
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  Speaker 4: wealth for the country. And I should have been really
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  Speaker 4: proud at the age of twenty six to be running
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  Speaker 4: a multimillion dollar business with twenty odd staff.
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  Speaker 2: I want to find out more about this multimillion business,
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  Speaker 2: million dollar business at twenty six, at least, just go
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  Speaker 2: back a couple of steps. When you went to a firm.
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  Speaker 2: What was the firm? What did they do when you
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  Speaker 2: were fifteen?
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  Speaker 4: Well, funnily enough, it was Deck Collection credit management company,
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  Speaker 4: which is interesting because that was the organization that owed
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  Speaker 4: my father some money.
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  Speaker 2: So I had.
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  Speaker 4: A computer bureau and they he used to do all
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  Speaker 4: of their computer processing. In fact, he was one of
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  Speaker 4: In fact, he was the first exporter of software in
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  Speaker 4: New Zealand back in nineteen sixty nine.
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  Speaker 2: Do you remember like that, did you feel sort of
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  Speaker 2: resentful about leaving school all.
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  Speaker 4: At fifteen, So I'm not an academic, not at all.
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  Speaker 4: I started in that business actually folding letters and answering
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  Speaker 4: the phone and flirting with the photocopia salesperson, the jack
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  Speaker 4: that came in to fix the photocopia. And no, I
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  Speaker 4: really loved my work. In fact, I've been in the
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  Speaker 4: workforce for forty years and always really enjoyed my work.
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  Speaker 4: That's not to say that it hasn't had some very
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  Speaker 4: stressful times.
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  Speaker 2: Well, look, I bet, so let's move through that a bit.
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  Speaker 2: So you stayed with the firm for fifteen years, and
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  Speaker 2: by twenty six had you graduated to some sort of
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  Speaker 2: more senior position within the.
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  Speaker 4: Years, So what had happened? So we sold the family
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  Speaker 4: firm when I turned In fact, I must have been
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  Speaker 4: I was pregnant with my second child, so I was
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  Speaker 4: thirty two, and the rest of the family didn't have
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  Speaker 4: an interest in it, so it did have to be sold.
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  Speaker 4: I'd had enough of it, but I sort of worked
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  Speaker 4: my way up through the business. But you know, a
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  Speaker 4: lot of people might think, oh, it must have been
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  Speaker 4: a really cruisy ride because you worked for a family firm.
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  Speaker 4: It was quite the opposite. I can tell you, you know,
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  Speaker 4: there was a lot of a lot of pressure on
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  Speaker 4: me to perform lead by example. So I just worked
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  Speaker 4: my way up into working in the legal department, and
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  Speaker 4: then with the advent of PCs the Computer bureau seesed
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  Speaker 4: to trade and Dad did come into the business, but
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  Speaker 4: then he flipped out of a jet boat and had
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  Speaker 4: quite a serious head injury. So one minute I was
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  Speaker 4: his right hand woman at age twenty six, and the
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  Speaker 4: next minute I was responsible for the business. It was
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  Speaker 4: huge pressure for a young person, you know, to have
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  Speaker 4: to meet a payroll of twenty plus staff when you're
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  Speaker 4: twenty six years old. But I, you know, by that stage,
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  Speaker 4: had what eleven years in the business, so knew it well.
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  Speaker 4: And yeah, just progress through through the business.
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  Speaker 2: That's quite a lot to take on when you're twenty six.
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  Speaker 4: Hindsight, I absolutely agree.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, So with you know, on one hand you've had
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  Speaker 2: your father's had a serious a serious accident. But on
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  Speaker 2: the other hand, you know, you've got this marvelous opportunity.
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  Speaker 2: How did you go about being able to actually apply
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  Speaker 2: all of that that was necessary without it getting too overwhelming? Ah,
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  Speaker 2: that is a.
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  Speaker 4: Very good question. Firstly, let me say, I didn't look
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  Speaker 4: at it as a wonderful opportunity, not at all. In hindsight,
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  Speaker 4: it clearly was. But Dad and I were very close
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  Speaker 4: because you know, I worked in his business and whilst
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  Speaker 4: he wasn't there day to day initially he came into
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  Speaker 4: the business and both businesses work side by side anyway,
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  Speaker 4: so we've always been very close and it was very
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  Speaker 4: distressing for me when he flipped out of a jet boat.
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  Speaker 4: He of course came back to work, and it wasn't
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  Speaker 4: until sort of the few months afterwards that we realized
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  Speaker 4: just how challenged he was, and he never worked again, really,
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  Speaker 4: but I remember he would lie in his office on
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  Speaker 4: the floor just you know, basically so exhausted and with
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  Speaker 4: a thumping headache, and in hindsight, it was a huge
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  Speaker 4: amount to deal with. You're right, but at twenty six,
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  Speaker 4: of course, you've got boundless energy, no children at that point,
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  Speaker 4: and as I say, had grown I'd grown up in
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  Speaker 4: the business, so I'd been there eleven years and understood it,
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  Speaker 4: and I had an outstanding team. Outstanding team.
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  Speaker 2: Did you see any what effect it had on you
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  Speaker 2: or having to go through that experience like either positive
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  Speaker 2: or otherwise?
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  Speaker 4: I think I just sucked it up and got on
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  Speaker 4: with it.
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  Speaker 5: There.
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  Speaker 4: You know, it was one of those situations where you
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  Speaker 4: didn't have there was no option. You had to make
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  Speaker 4: a success of it. People were relying on you. Dad
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  Speaker 4: was relying on me because suddenly he was out of action.
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  Speaker 4: The twenty plus staff were relying on me, Their families
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  Speaker 4: were relying on me. So as a team, I mean
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  Speaker 4: when you run a small business. When you were and
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  Speaker 4: a small business, you're very much like a family. You
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  Speaker 4: support each other, you understand each other, You look after
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  Speaker 4: and nurture each other. And that's exactly what we did.
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  Speaker 4: We all came together and I was also president of
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  Speaker 4: the credit the Associated Credit Bureau. We established a sort
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  Speaker 4: of code of ethics and an association around decollection and
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  Speaker 4: credit management, so as I was doing that as well.
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  Speaker 2: So it was really just about finding a way for
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  Speaker 2: you and the rest of the team for just to
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  Speaker 2: port each other through what would have been a bit
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  Speaker 2: of challenging times, especially with such an instantaneous change in
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  Speaker 2: the leadership.
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  Speaker 4: No, you're right, if I was to look back, it
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  Speaker 4: was very much about looking after each other.
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  Speaker 3: You know.
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  Speaker 4: It wasn't about me being the boss. It was about
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  Speaker 4: us as a wonderful team that respected each other coming
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  Speaker 4: together to make a success of the organization.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, we've got to take a break. When we come back,
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  Speaker 2: we'll keep the conversation going here with our guest tonight,
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  Speaker 2: Sarah Trupman. Back after the break.
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  Speaker 6: Nutters Club now on News Talks.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: It'd be welcome back to the show. My name's Hamish Williams,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: and in the Auckland studio with me tonight, doctor Emma
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  Speaker 2: Woodward and our guest Sarah Truppman, who's talking about her
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  Speaker 2: life and experience, especially in business. And and so, you know,
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  Speaker 2: the way that you got your business education was quite
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  Speaker 2: unconventional by I guess, you know, anyone else's standards, you know,
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  Speaker 2: I mean you just sort of learned on the job.
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  Speaker 2: But even having said that, you sort of seem to
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  Speaker 2: really know how to build, you know, especially your team
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: that you're referencing that that worked so well. So is
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  Speaker 2: this the point where we just say that you've you know,
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  Speaker 2: you've sailed on and there have been no major challenges
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  Speaker 2: and it's all been great or has there been?
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  Speaker 4: I wish I could say that. Golly, there's been some
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  Speaker 4: real highs and some real lows and the first time
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  Speaker 4: that springs to mind is I've done a few startups
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  Speaker 4: and one of them was an organization called bizone. So
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: we had the largest events for business across the country,
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  Speaker 4: had about twenty thousand business owners come to our business
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  Speaker 4: expos in Auckland, Wellington and christ Church.
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  Speaker 2: There's a lot of people and we.
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  Speaker 4: We entered the Deloitte Fast fifty at one point and
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  Speaker 4: we were listed in it, which was wonderful, and it
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  Speaker 4: was the fastest growing business own one hundred percent owned
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  Speaker 4: by a woman in New Zealand. So I was pretty
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  Speaker 4: proud of that, and again a great team that made
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  Speaker 4: that happen. And I had that business for ten years
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  Speaker 4: and so as you can imagine, I had some spectacular
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  Speaker 4: highs with such a fast growing business. And then the
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  Speaker 4: GFC hit at the same time as me taking the
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  Speaker 4: business model into Australia and sinking five hundred thousand dollars
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  Speaker 4: into an online offering that was basically a dog. So
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  Speaker 4: the business failed and it was an incredible probably the
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  Speaker 4: most difficult time for me in business, but again incredible
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  Speaker 4: experience because you learn so much in failure. In fat
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  Speaker 4: Craig Heatley, who won Entrepreneur of the Year once said,
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  Speaker 4: you learn ten times more in moments of failure than
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  Speaker 4: you do success. And I can tell you I learned
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  Speaker 4: a lot, including how tough I am.
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  Speaker 2: So even though you know, we learned through failure, the
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  Speaker 2: experience of it can sometimes be quite hard in terms
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  Speaker 2: of feeling really overwhelming, you know, especially when you're dealing
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  Speaker 2: with big amounts of money like you were. You know,
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  Speaker 2: half a million dollars. There's still a lot of money.
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  Speaker 4: Oh, I mean, it was my entire network that I'd
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  Speaker 4: worked sort of what twenty five years in my life for.
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  Speaker 4: It was incredibly difficult. I remember hearing somebody on the
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  Speaker 4: radio or maybe I'd read it in a book or something,
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  Speaker 4: some entrepreneurs talking about laughing in the face of failure,
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  Speaker 4: and I just remember thinking, you have no idea what
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  Speaker 4: true failure is. If you think that you can laugh
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  Speaker 4: in the face of failure, because it was it was
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  Speaker 4: pure hell.
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  Speaker 2: So what was it doing to your state of mind
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  Speaker 2: at that point?
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  Speaker 4: Well, interestingly enough, somebody said, so I sold my family home.
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  Speaker 4: I have two children, and I separated from their father
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  Speaker 4: when they were five and sort of four, and so
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  Speaker 4: when I sold my home, I was in effect turfing
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: my two teenage children out of their home as well.
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  Speaker 4: So that in itself was very challenging because of course
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  Speaker 4: I'm dealing with the trauma. I mean, business owners are
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: often quite emotionally tied to their business. So it's very
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  Speaker 4: difficult as a business owner, when you've put your blood,
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: sweat and tears into a business, to in effect separate
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  Speaker 4: the failure of the business from yourself. So you feel
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  Speaker 4: very much like a failure, which you of course shouldn't,
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  Speaker 4: but you do.
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  Speaker 2: That's the reality of it.
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  Speaker 4: And so I was talking to somebody about this and
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  Speaker 4: they said, Sarah, you were just going through so much
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  Speaker 4: at the moment, you really probably need to go and
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: see your doctor and make sure that you're okay. And
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: you know, I think when the going gets tough and
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: the tough get going, I sort of for me, I
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: was just focused on getting through that very difficult year.
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: You've got creditors that need to be paid, you've got
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: personal guarantees that you're given to banks, etc.
• 15:34
  Speaker 7: Etc.
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  Speaker 4: So it was a very interesting and difficult year. But
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: I did go and see the doctor and she gave
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: me I think it was about twenty five sort of
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: back of the envelope questions where you did a test
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: for or answered some questions and that gave the doctor
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: a sense of whether you had any depression or anxiety.
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: And she said, well, you're not depressed, but you're off
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: the scale for anxiety. And she said, I really need
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: to give you some pills to come you down. I said,
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  Speaker 4: to be honest, if I'm feeling like I'm managing, because
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: I didn't feel like I wasn't managing, and I'm off
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  Speaker 4: the scale, then I must be superwoman. And I walked
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: away and I thought I actually felt quite good, you know,
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  Speaker 4: that I was off the scale but still coping. And
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  Speaker 4: then a few months later I went back to her
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  Speaker 4: and said, actually, you know this is going to really
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: take its toll if I don't get myself on some pills,
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: which I did for about six months. I think it
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: was just to calm everything down. It was such a
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: chaotic time for me.
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  Speaker 2: When we're talking about the effects that long term anxiety
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  Speaker 2: can have and where I'll bring you, and Emma is
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: to say, you know, we can kind of think, you know,
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  Speaker 2: and you've seen this a few times. You know, you
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: know I double down, you know, the tough get going,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: but also too. Anxiety takes a physical toll on us, right,
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  Speaker 2: So what are some of the signs that we should
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: look for to actually know that perhaps we're getting just
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  Speaker 2: a little bit too much of writing the lightning of
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  Speaker 2: that anxiety.
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  Speaker 3: I think that's a really good question because actually, if
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  Speaker 3: you are used to high functioning kind of behaviors, you
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: can mask a lot of the anxiety. The anxiety provides
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: a lot of the adrenaline you need to keep doing
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: to achieve your goals. So actually there's a kind of
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: a pro social benefit of it in a way because
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  Speaker 3: it enables you to do the thing that you think
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: you're good at. But eventually that starts to run out,
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  Speaker 3: and it does have an impact on your body. You
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: hit burnout, you become tired, you become brain foggy, you
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: become forgetful, you get sick more often, your immune system
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: kind of becomes dysregulated, and then you start missing those
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: goals that you were achieving before, which is when the
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: mental health impact sticks in. And that's why anxiety and
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: depression are so closely linked, because you can't achieve to
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: the same level that you were before. And as you mentioned,
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: your whole sense of self worth is wrapped up in
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: this one thing. If you cannot do that thing well anymore,
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: that takes a big toll on your sense of self
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: and your identity.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Is that what you found too well.
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: One of the things that I was quite disciplined worth
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: is I thought, this is the most stressful time in
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: my life. I need to eat well, need to exercise,
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: I need to limit alcohol intake, and I need to
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: find little moments of joy. I remember when I was
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: in business. My father used to say that when he
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: was in business, he'd sometimes on a bad day, just
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: go out and buy a CD, just, you know, do
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: something little that gives you joyful moments. And at the
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: end of each day, I would think, Okay, what was
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: the most joyful thing that happened to me today? In fact,
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: I still do that, I think, what are three great
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: things that happened to me today? Sometimes they can just
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: be looking at a beautiful tree, you know, But just
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: to keep those positive thoughts and keep everything in perspective
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: easier said than done.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Of course, we've got to take a break. When we
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: come back, we'll keep the conversation going here with our
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: guest tonight, Sarah Truppman on the Nutters Club back soon.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: This is the Nutters Club thanks to New Zealand on
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: air on news dog.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Z'b Welcome back to the show. My name's Hamish Williamsworth,
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Doctor Emma Woodwood and our guest tonight, Sarah Truppman here
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: in the Auckland studio. So look, Sarah, where you kind
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: of left us in the part of the story was
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: that you know you'd had this terrible experience with the
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: failure of the business. You know you'd lost a significant
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: amount of money, you had to sell the family home
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: to teenage kids. You know that is a hard space
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: for anyone to be in. Where on earth do you
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: begin to try and make a plan to change any
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: of that, to find a way forward? What was it
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: that you started to do That.
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: Is a very very good question. I did feel quite overwhelmed,
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: as you can imagine. And what I did is every
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: day I woke up and worked on what the next
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: steps were, and some days I felt like I'd bitten
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: off more than I could choose, so I just pegged
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: it back a wee bit. But every day I went
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: to bed knowing that I had achieved something towards I
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: can't even say towards a goal, but towards sorting out
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: the impact of failure. As I say, there's credit is
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: to be paid, there's the bank to keep happy. And
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: I have to say one thing that was very important
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: to me, and I didn't even think of it consciously,
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: but I remember saying to the bank, you know, thank
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: you for supporting me through this. This is when I
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: came through it. And the woman looked at me and
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: she said, do you know one thing that I've really
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: admired about you over this last years? You have never
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: once failed in your integrity to others. And I thought
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: that was very interesting, and I was quite surprised that
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: she said that. And she said, you'd be amazed that
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: when people have got their back against the wall, they
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: do things that they actually wouldn't normally do. And I
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: felt quite pleased with myself about that. And she said,
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: and that's why I've backed you, That's why I've been
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: prepared to walk alongside you over the last year or so.
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: But what I had, of course, since I had some
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: intellectual prop which I sold around town, various things. I mean,
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: I remember, I'm going to segue, but here, so bring
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: me back. That's right, Bill Day, who won Entrepreneur of
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: the Year ages ago, probably fifteen years ago. I remember
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: hearing him speak once and he said, you know, being
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: an entrepreneur, being a business owner, it's like you're making
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: love to your partner thinking this would be so much
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: better on satin sheets. And it was so true.
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: We had our business expos in Auckland and I went,
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: actually I could run them in christ and Wellington as well,
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: and once of course we'd done that, I was like, well,
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: I could add on Excellence and Business Support Awards, you know,
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: where we actually celebrated quality business support in the country
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: that was benchmarked against an international criteria. We all talk
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: about championing export businesses, but we never talk about quality
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: business support for those business owners. And then we had
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: a magazine that went to twenty thousand odd business owners.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: And there are a few other things. I can't remember
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: of those now, got it's been ten almost fifteen years.
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: So what I did was I sold different aspects of
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: the business to different sort of entities. And then I
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: was selling the Excellence in Business Support Awards to somebody
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: and to an entity and they said, quite like the
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: IP but we like you too. Would you come and
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: work for us? And I thought, I'm going to need
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: a job sometimes, you know you do, there's a time
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: in your life where you need to go, Okay, I
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: actually now need to let go of that experience. So, yes,
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: I had my business for ten years.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, it just.
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: Went up and up and up and up and then
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: crash through. I remember sitting on the couch of my
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: accountants in my accountant's office and saying, where did this
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: all go wrong? And she said, do you know I
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: can't answer that for you, Sarah. It was quite a
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: complex sort of perfect storm. Ultimately, I take full respec consibility,
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: as any business owner needs to, but it was it
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: was quite a complex failure.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: And is that you're trying to make peace with what
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: was a difficult situation.
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: Trying to understand it. Yeah, I still don't understand it,
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: to be honest. What I can say is I was
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: too optimistic. And I can tell you right now that
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: you show me a startup entrepreneur and they will take
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: three times more money than they think they're going to take.
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: They'll take three times longer than they think they're going
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: to take. Business is complex. I mean, I've got two kids,
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: and I can tell your parenting is pretty complex, but
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: running a business is way more complex. So I don't
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: think I've ever made peace with that, to be honest,
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: I've definitely moved on. And it was definitely a character
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: building experience and I learned a lot from it. I gosh,
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: thinking a loud, I wonder if it's and I'm absolutely
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: not suggesting it's like the death of child, but I
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: thought that sprung to mind as we were just chatting.
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: You know, there's something that I'll never let go of.
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: It's a part of me. It was very complex, it
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: was very difficult, but I look on the positive side
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: of it.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: I learned so much, so deeply personal then just you know,
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: absolutely and you know when you say like a child like,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: you know, you're part of your identity, part of you
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: was wrapped up in all of this.
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: And it's I mean, I never hesitate to talk about
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: business failure. It's something that a lot of people don't
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: talk about. And I did this still today ut University
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: and I met somebody there who had actually done a
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: PhD in entrepreneurial failure and I just about hugged her.
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: Just wonderful, and because she had done a real deep
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: dive into talking to business owners, who had experienced complex
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: and fairly spectacular failure, and she also agrees it's just
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: not talked about enough.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Well, we're talking about it tonight and we'll take a break.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: When we come back, I'll get doctor Emma, and I'd
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: love you to talk about why it is that we
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: struggle to talk about failure because most times that's actually,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: as you've said, Sarah, that's where you do most of
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: your learning. So let's continue to talk on that topic,
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: why we fear failure? Back soon here on the Nutter's Club.
• 25:37
  Speaker 6: Nutters Club now on News Talks.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: I'd be hey, welcome back to the show now. As
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: I just said before we went into the break, I
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: was really interested to find out from you, Emma, about
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: why is it that humans, you know, sort of have
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: this just challenge to be able to want to talk
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: about failure in terms of it something that's going to
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: happen at some point in your life, right, but we
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: always seem to shy away from it, or we have
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: others that are so quick to judge us with it.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: So what's going on in our minds that makes us
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: feel this writtenance to want to be able to talk
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: about these things when it could actually be so healthy
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: and of value to us good.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: And I just want to acknowledge that not all cultures
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: view failure in the same way. And so in our
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: culture and the culture that we're talking about in terms
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: of business and a capitalist society or a neoliberalist society,
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: failure is highly highly linked with shame. And when you
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: kind of have this sense of shame, what that does
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: is activate your nervous systems. So the evolutionary purpose of
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: shame is to give you a short, sharp, horrible feeling
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: to make you act more in line with the norms
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: of your society. Because when we used to live out
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: on the planes, if we didn't behave in line with
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: our tribe, they'd oursed us and we get eaten by wolves.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: So we feel that horrible, quick, kind of awful feeling
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: of a shame. Don't make us change our behavior, so
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: we're reaccepted by a pack. Now, over years and years
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: and years, the failure and shame have become conflated. So
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: when we experience failure, instead of being able to talk
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: about it openly and curiously and from a learning perspective,
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: we're actually blinded by shame. And so that stops us
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: thinking because when we're activated, our brain changes. We can't
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: be global and creative in our thoughts. We've become very
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: closed and narrow and specific in our thought and that
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: leads to rumination. So we kind of get stuck in
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: a loop. And so I think largely we find it
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: very difficult to talk about failure because failure in society,
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: the society that we live in today is so imbued
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: with a sense of shame and shamefulness. And that's why
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: we're quick to judge other people too, because everybody loves
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: to judge somebody else, because what do you get if
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: you judge somebody else? You get a hit feeling better
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: about yourself. So in a society where everybody's needs aren't
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: met in an equal way, judgment becomes to the forefront.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: And the more we are judged, the more we kind
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: of feel like we need to hide our true selves
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: and can't talk about our failures, and it becomes self fulfilling.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: It's a very good explanation. Thank you. So you raised a.
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: Really interesting point there in me You're right, I mean,
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: in the U is a business failure is a badge
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: of honor. If you haven't failed, you haven't pushed yourself
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: hard enough and in fact, funnily enough, before my business failed,
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: maybe I had a six sense I was headed that way.
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: But what I did is I put together this group
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: of about six to eight entrepreneurs so that people like
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: Kim Crawford Wines, Saint Pierre Sushi, urgent Careers, these amazing entrepreneurs.
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: And I called it and if people want to google it,
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: it's bizone biz z one stuff ups. And there's some
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: videos there of these exceptional business people talking about the
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: times that they failed and how they picked themselves up
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: again and the impact that it had on their business,
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: their families. I remember Erica Crawford from Kim Crawford Wines
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: said she'd never used to employ people that hadn't failed
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: because she didn't want them failing on her watch.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, there we go. This seems to me some method there,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: but also to you know, you've really outlined, you know,
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: some of your principles and values, and you know, you
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: were making some observations around about how that's actually been
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: a guiding light and steer a story.
• 29:24
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: I've been sitting here and listening and all I've heard
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: lots of things that have come out naturally through your
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: story that the things that we teach people in therapy.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: You've kind of touched on the concept of radical acceptance,
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: you know, accepting the things you can't change. You can't
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: work it out. It just isn't right. It didn't turn
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: out in accordance with your preference, and you've got to
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: continue on anyway, you know, And how do you hold
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: those your perspectives in place. You've talked to gratitude practice,
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: which is the antidote to our negativity bias. I'm going
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: to try and find those micro moments of joy in
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: every day, otherwise you do become overwhelmed by the tough
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: stuff you've talked about, eat, sleep, move, the things, the
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: most basic things that we're basically meat suits that traverse
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: the earth. And if we don't eat and well enough,
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: we don't sleep well enough, and we don't move well enough,
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: then our body doesn't work properly, and then it can't
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: feel our brain, and our brain can't feel our body.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: So you have got all of these key components all
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: the way through your story and your values about being
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: led with integrity. Now, values are a tricky thing because
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: they're different for everyone, and sometimes you need to know
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: when to use them. And when not to use that
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: one and choose another one in its place. But it
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: sounds like you are quite values led, and our values
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: are I say that our emotions are the biological push
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: behind our behavior, and our values are our aspirational pull.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: And it seems to me that when the emotions have
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: taken over, you've chosen to lean into your values.
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: I'm just trying to think how I articulate a thought
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: that's just come to my mind. You, because when you
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: see it, sometimes we need to turn off of value.
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: I really struggle with it. So I have a deep
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: sense of fairness, which is I think what carried me
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: through so successfully with my business Vailue. But when people
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: wrong me, or wrong someone that I love or someone
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: I've never even met before, I just have this deep
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: sense that if I can put it right, I need
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: to and I hold people to account fiercely. And in fact,
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: I mentioned that to someone recently and they say, yes,
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: but you hold yourself to the same standard. I had
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: a situation I'm involved in. I'm elected onto Auckland council'swaite
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: and met our local board and I had a situation
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: where the first term I was elected and I can
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: tell you, politics is not something I enjoy. I do
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: it for my community service, you know, because I've got
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: some governance experience, I've got some commercial experience. I'm interested
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: and care about the community i'm elected to represent, and
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: therefore it's you know, I sort of have a duty
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: to step up, and I wish more good people did.
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: But I had a situation the first time I was
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: elected where I got myself arrested protesting misinformation and manipulation
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: of my community, and I just felt so strongly about it.
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: And I can tell you that being put in a
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: paddy wagon and taken to mounted in prison for processing
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: was a walk in the park compared to a day
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: in council at those at those times. But you know,
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: there was a really good example of how probably I
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: could have turned off that value old justice dull. And
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: then the second term I swore I'd never go back
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: to the council again. And then I got convinced to
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: stand again. And the first time I stood, I was
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: the only one of a right landing team in a
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: team of a group of seven, so six on the left.
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: And then the next time I stood, we got a
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: majority across the line, which was just wonderful. And then
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: one of the people that we campaigned with actually voted
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: with the other side to secure herself as the chair
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: of the local board. And I was just I'm still
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: to this day gobsmat that somebody would act without integrity,
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: and I relentlessly hold her to account. I can tell
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: you that, I just want.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: To pick something up in there, though, Sarah, as you know,
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: you've you have come back from your failure and you've
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: actually had a lot of success going forward, and it's
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: been recognized at quite a high level. And I'm talking
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: about when you given your it was Queen service awarded
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: at that point. Do you want to talk to us
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: about what that was, how that came about.
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: Ah, yes, I suppose I could. I actually, I can
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: tell you that one day I cleared fourteing banked up
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: messages because I don't know, I seem to send people
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: to ants phone and then they go into the stratosphere,
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: never to be heard from again. So one day I
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: cleared all of my voice messages that were banked up.
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: I went off to a meeting, came back, by golly,
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: there was another voice message there. So I cleared it
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: and it was this chap and he said, oh, you know,
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: it's Jim Smith from the Prime Minister's Honors Unit, and
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: we're very disappointed that you haven't replied to the letter
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: that we sent you four weeks ago. And I thought, oh, no,
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: somebody's getting a queen's honor and I haven't seconded it
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: or something. So I canceled my next meeting and I
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: rushed my PO box and I opened it up and
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: it was a letter from the Honors Unit saying that
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: I'd been nominated for an Officer of the New Zealand
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: Order of Merit. And I was absolutely gobsmacked, to be
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: quite honest, And it was interesting because it did cause
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: me to stop and reflect, why would somebody like me
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: be deserving? And I'm not saying I wasn't deserving. It
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: was huge honor that my peers nominated me. I still
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: don't know who nominated me for that, to quite honest,
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: but I thought, why me? Why not the woman that
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: gets up, you know, that's living on the poverty line,
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: that gets up every Saturday morning and takes the oranges
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: to Rugby, And you know it might be a soulo
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: mother with three children. And so you know, we all have, sorry,
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: many of us have a deep commitment to do what
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: we can. And I've been very fortunate, you know. I
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: remember growing up my father used to always say, be
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: nice to somebody that doesn't have any friends, and never
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: forget just how lucky you are to have been born
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: into this family. I mean, we were just mom, dad
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: and five children, but you know, we were well cared for.
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: We were given a good education, we were taught right
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: from wrong, and very much that if you have the
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: skills to step up and support your community, you need
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: to do that. So I felt a bit embarrassed about it,
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: to be honest, and I never used to wear the pin.
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: And then my sister said that was very disrespectful. So
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: I do wear my hi Queen's honor.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Yes you wear that, but you've also you know, we're
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: the experience of what you've been through as well. We've
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: got to take a break, but when we come back,
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: I wanted to find out about how you manage your
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: anxiety differently now than how you did before. Oh okay,
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: give you a couple of minutes to think about an answer.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: We'll be back soon here on the Nutters Club.
• 36:39
  Speaker 6: The Nutters Club, on News Talks.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: They'd be welcome back to the show. And at this
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: point I would also say, we welcome your calls tonight.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: So you know the phone number, don't you. Oh, eight
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: And I'd like to talk about your experiences with failure
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: in life. Perhaps it's been an experience that you've gone through,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: could be something that you've learned out of it. It
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: could be that you are grappling with some level of
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: failure in your life at the moment. And I'd love
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: to hear from any one who has been through it,
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: much like Sarah has talked about her own personal experiences,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: and what your experience might have been or what it
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: is right now, and especially if perhaps you're struggling with
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: it tonight, because I would love you to be able
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: to talk with Sarah, to talk with doctor Ehma, because
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: these two people understand this very well. One has experienced it,
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: the other one can give you some damn good clinical
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: guidance on it. So pick up the phone eight hundred
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: and eighty ten eighty your experiences with failure. So, Sarah,
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: I guess you know, like I asked the question before
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: the break, is there anything that you do differently when
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: it comes to managing your anxiety or when you have,
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: you know, challenging situations in your life now that you
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: do differently prior to what you used to do.
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: To be honest, there isn't anything that I do differently.
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: I sort of face the challenge head on. If there's
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: one thing that I learned from the first time I
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: experienced a set back, it would be that this too
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: will pass. That is just such a simple statement, but
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: it is so true. You know, there's so much that's
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: good about life, but there's also times when life is
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: very difficult, and I guess you've got two options. You
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: can either face the challenge in a very honest, authentic way,
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: or you can sider pull a duvet over your head
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: and just think that it's going to go away, and
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: it's not going to. So you really do need to
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: face your challenges and, as I say, sometimes just do
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: some very simple things. There were some days when I
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: experienced my real challenge with my business failure, where I
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: would just chunk down into really small, bite sized pieces
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: things that I was going to do that day. It
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: might be make three phone calls, you know, and be
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: quite grateful that they went off to answer phone.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: You've just touched on another really important thing. A guy
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: called Rex and I wrote a paper in the early
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: two thousands called Rainbow's in the Mind, and he tried
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: to break down hope. What is the components of hope?
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: And he says action plus self belief equals hope. Now,
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: I'd add in community in that as well. I don't
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: think any no person can exist on their own. But
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: that's what I heard, is like, yes, you were working
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: in a hopeful way, just those small actions every day.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: Action plus self belief equals hope. This too shall pass.
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: I also had some very good people around me. I
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: talked earlier about sitting on my accountant's couch and just
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: going where are we at? How did this happen? And
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: both of us just being amused by it. Well, my accountant,
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: my heir dresser, and my lawyer with the only three
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: people that knew exactly what was going on. I mean,
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: I speak very freely about failure now, but I certainly
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: didn't at the time. Put my end up going hi, everyone,
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: I'm experiencing failure and by the way, it's hellish. But
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: funnily enough, my hair dress it because he was somebody
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: of course that I totally trusted. He knew me well.
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: Every time I sat in his chair for the last
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: twenty odd years, I'd tell him about, you know, what
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: was joyous and what wasn't joyous. And the other thing
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: is I remember being out at a dinner and I
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: started just putting my toe in the water. As I say,
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: we just do little things. But I was starting to
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: come through my experience and feel more comfortable speaking with
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: people about it. And I remember saying to this chap, yes, yes,
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: my business has failed. And I must have worded it
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: in a way to imply that I had failed, which
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: I imagine is quite sort of common. You know, we struggle
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: to separate out a failure from ourselves. And he just
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: looked at me as if I was completely stupid, and
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: he said, Sarah Trupman doesn't fail. And I've never forgotten
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: that because what I was experiencing, what I thought was
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: going on, was very different to what he thought was
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: going on.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: We are going to head off to New Sport and weather.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: But when we come back, I've got a bunch of
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: texts here, We've got some calls coming in, so we're
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: going to take your calls and have this conversation around
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: how have you dealt with your experiences of failure? And
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: I know that this would be quite a hard one
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: for you to talk about out there, because, like we've said,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: it's not something that naturally most of us want to
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: talk about. But it could be a very good conversation
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: for you to have with us. So please give us
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: a call, oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty, or
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: text us on nine two ninety two. We'll be back
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: shortly here on Another's Club.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: This is the Nutters Club thanks to New Zealand Air
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: on newstalksz'd.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: Been previously on the Nutters Club. We were joined by
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: guest Sarah Truppman. Good news, she's actually still here in
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: the studio with us, but she was sharing us, sharing
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: her story of her life and especially her life in business.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: She had a very unconventional education into business where she
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: was sort of essentially drafted into a family business at
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: age fifteen, ended up working there for the next sort
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: of twelve years or so. Sarah ended up becoming one
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: of the senior managers running the place, really because her
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: father had experienced an accident, and it went on to
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: be the foundation for what has actually been a very
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: successful business career, but that is not without having experienced
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: significant failures through that career. The one that that sticks
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: out the most was when she had a business that
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: dissolved around the GFC. It's the Global Financial Crisis, which
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: was it round about circa two thousand and nine from memory,
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: and it saw her lose well pretty much everything, life, savings,
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: the family home. And here's the thing is that Sarah
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: has talked about what it is that she learned from
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: that experience, and although she was experiencing excessive anxiety at
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: the time, she also too came to have peace in
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: the fact that things do pass and in her own
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: words hallish as it seemed at the time that actually
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: with time with patients and some pretty intense self care,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: but actually just doing those small things in life, you
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: can actually find your way forward. And she did, and
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: I think that's really important. So look tonight really wanted
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: to continue that conversation and get your contribution to this,
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: and that's to talk about your experiences of failure. What
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: did it teach you, What was it that happened, But
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: what more importantly did you learn from it? And how
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: have you done things differently going forward? Or are you
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: someone at the moment, who perhaps is going through that
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: feeling at the moment and you need a little bit
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: of help on how to actually navigate that. If that's you,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: please pick up the phone, because I actually can't think
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: of to better people for you to have a chat tonight,
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: to being of course, doctor Emma Woodward and our guest
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: Sarah Tropman. Okay, I've got a few texts here, guys.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: I have got some calls coming in, but I'll go
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: to them in a moment, but I'm going to go
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: to the text first. Nice one here It just says
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: she speaks so clearly, so beautifully. That's obviously about you, Sarah.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: So there we go. That's a nice one, isn't it.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: This one says it's from Sally. Thanks Sally. Sally says, Hi, guys,
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: are we able to know how her anxiety actually manifests
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: and impacts Please? Still unsure as it hasn't really been
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: said yet. So when we're talking about your anxiety, I
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: don't know. Can we talk about this and more generally,
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: because it's what is it that creates anxiety? Does it
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: change from person to person? Emma or you know it doesn't.
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: What causes anxiety changes from person to person. But actually
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: there was some research done in twenty twenty that showed
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: all human beings tend to feel anxiety and that we
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: all feel similar emotions in the same physiologically. So when
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: we get anxious, you know, we all recognize that our
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: palms might not get sweaty, or our mouth gets dry,
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: or our tummy gets kind of tight, or our muscles
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: get tense. So we all feel anxiety in a similar way.
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: How that presents, manifests, or what triggers it can be
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: different for each of us.
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: Okay, gosh, Sally, that is such a good question because initially,
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: when how much was reading it out, I thought, well,
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: I didn't really feel anxiety, and then I realized that
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: it's just this immense pressure. So I think it would
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: be fear to say that I was very calm throughout
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: at the same time as experiencing anxiety. And I was
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: just going to say to Emma the professional, is that possible?
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: But it must be because that's what I experienced.
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: I was very calm, I was very considered, I was
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: very proactive with the situation that I had ahead of me.
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: But I felt immense pressure, and I think that's because
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: I was calm. That's when I saw the doctor. Sorry,
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: I didn't see the doctor because I was calm, but
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: I went to see the doctor just to share with
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: her the immense pressure that I was under. And then
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: when she said, you know, you're certainly not showing any
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: signs of depression, but you're off the scale for anxiety,
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: that's when I realized, actually, I was probably handling things
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: quite well, and that taking one day at a time,
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: being calm, not bearing my head in the sand, and
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: also having really good people to speak to. I think
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: it's important. I had a wonderful drink one day with
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: a story game changer. I mean, you'd know the business
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: if I mentioned it to you, and he was sharing
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: with me some challenges that he was having, and I
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: looked at him and I said, will you stop talking
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: to anyone that will listen and go and start talking
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: to people that actually understand what it's like to call
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: a friend and say, hey, hey, Mish, hey Emma, Sorry
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: I haven't chatted to you for the last six months.
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: I've been pretty busy with my business. Do you mind
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: sticking the payroll in your credit card? You know, people
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: that actually understand your challenge. So for me. I would
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: strongly recommend to any listeners that they actually reach out
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: to people that they feel can really make a difference
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: for them.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: Let's go to the lines. We've got some calls here
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: that come and let's go to Jay. Jay, good morning
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: to you. I'm just trying to get Jay on there. Jay,
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: good morning, good morning. Good to hear you. I can
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: hear you loud and clear. Jay.
• 48:10
  Speaker 5: Yes. So we've got a bit of a unique, unique
• 48:13
  Speaker 5: situation that's kind of it's very embarrassing for me. Little backstory,
• 48:19
  Speaker 5: had quite a traumatic childhood and then I was the
• 48:26
  Speaker 5: victim of a random assault, like just over a year ago. Anyway,
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: since then, like I'm having these really bad like nightsiers
• 48:35
  Speaker 5: every night, and and for the topic, I'm feeling like
• 48:39
  Speaker 5: a failure of a husband because it's affecting my marriage.
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: My wife's here as well, she's wants to speak and
• 48:45
  Speaker 5: say her part as well. And like we've been seeking
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: help and like they've given me some medication to stop
• 48:58
  Speaker 5: the nightsiers, and they sometimes work and all that, but
• 49:01
  Speaker 5: and then there's like problems with like the medication being
• 49:05
  Speaker 5: addict say, then they stop it and then they get
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: real bad just not triggering for anyone. But I've got
• 49:15
  Speaker 5: very violent in my sleep, and like my wife has
• 49:18
  Speaker 5: been hurt at times.
• 49:20
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I can get hurt punches and lashures out and
• 49:23
  Speaker 8: the sleeping's unaware of what's happening. I've got long recovered
• 49:28
  Speaker 8: from a stroke, so it's really important for me not
• 49:31
  Speaker 8: to get hurt. And sleeping in other beds is it's
• 49:38
  Speaker 8: that's hard to when and you want to make sure
• 49:41
  Speaker 8: that they're all right in their sleep as well as
• 49:45
  Speaker 8: it's We're in a bit of a a sort of
• 49:48
  Speaker 8: a situation where it's really really hard and waiting for
• 49:51
  Speaker 8: mental health to come jump on board and sort of
• 49:55
  Speaker 8: in that waiting game. So but I don't really know
• 49:59
  Speaker 8: what help we can get.
• 50:04
  Speaker 5: Other than although my mental health is good, yeah when
• 50:08
  Speaker 5: I'm awake, but there's stuff going on in the background
• 50:12
  Speaker 5: that it's causing these really bad dreams that I can't control.
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: And it's a fifty in our marriage and everything, and
• 50:21
  Speaker 5: it's like given to the point where like my wife
• 50:24
  Speaker 5: doesn't really not to do.
• 50:26
  Speaker 9: Okay with me?
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: Jay, do you mind if I just asked a couple
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: of questions, Yeah, sure, it's Emma. By the way, how
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: long of the night here has been going on for
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: is this since the random attack?
• 50:42
  Speaker 5: So like through childhood traumas, I suffered with night terrors
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: like right for my teens, and then then they kind
• 50:52
  Speaker 5: of stopped. I didn't have any for years, and then
• 50:58
  Speaker 5: in the assault happened, and then I didn't have any
• 51:02
  Speaker 5: until just like one night, about what eight months ago?
• 51:06
  Speaker 5: Eight months ago. It just started one night and it's
• 51:11
  Speaker 5: happened every single night since and.
• 51:15
  Speaker 8: Multiple times through the night. It sounds my work as well.
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: It sounds like you're both dealing with a lot. Do
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: you feel that they are they are linked. There's some
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: psychological element to the night roost? Is that your feeling
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: you're the expert in yourself? Is that what you're your
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: kind of judgment on that is?
• 51:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so some of them do. Like sometimes I see
• 51:39
  Speaker 5: my childhood as users. Sometimes I see like I see
• 51:46
  Speaker 5: an attacker, or sometimes it's just random things like it's
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: always to do the situations and my dreams are always
• 51:52
  Speaker 5: things that have happened, okay, yeah, and it's just like replaying.
• 51:59
  Speaker 9: The past.
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: So sometimes when we've experienced things are extremely overwhelming and overpowering,
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: our processing gets stuck and that is your brain trying
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: to process the experiences that have happened to you. Are
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: you able to access any support through ACC or have
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: you have you gone down those routes?
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: Have you spoken with your GP?
• 52:20
  Speaker 10: Yes? I have.
• 52:21
  Speaker 5: I have dealt with ACIS a lot in the past.
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: I couldn't you know, like how you go through a
• 52:29
  Speaker 5: process with ACC and then you've got to do a
• 52:32
  Speaker 5: big two three hour appointment where that we've got to
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: give the whole story. Well, I attempted that like many times.
• 52:39
  Speaker 5: I finally did it again when in my twenties. Yeah,
• 52:42
  Speaker 5: and then that was like nearly fifteen years ago.
• 52:46
  Speaker 11: And then.
• 52:48
  Speaker 5: Just recently, like then everything stopped. I was feeling my
• 52:52
  Speaker 5: life was good. The dreams and everything had gone and
• 52:55
  Speaker 5: I was on the good path, and then it just
• 52:57
  Speaker 5: seemed like everything just started again. And I've just recently
• 53:01
  Speaker 5: like seen a GP and doctors and prescribed some medication
• 53:07
  Speaker 5: to help stop the dreams, which works probably like slick
• 53:13
  Speaker 5: sleep us into the time. Okay, and there's a process
• 53:17
  Speaker 5: starting again.
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: Have you ever heard of anything called e M d R. No,
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: so I movement desensitization reprocessing, and it sounds I would
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: encourage you to have a Google have a look at
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: it because it sounds like it might be something that
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: would be really suited to you. And I know that
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: you can get any mdr therapist through ACC so that
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: might be something that you might want to look at
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: me to be able to kind of address some of
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: those those issues that your brain is clearly trying to
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: process from your past and is coming out when you're kind.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: Of a.
• 53:57
  Speaker 11: Jane.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there's there's a few different things. And Jane, look,
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: I just want to say, first of all, thank you
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: very much for having the courage to call the show tonight.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: You know that takes an immense amount and it obviously
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: shows that you're really committed to wanting to find a
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: solution to this for yourself, and just awesome to hear
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: that you've got your wife there with you as well.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: Like you know, you two are obviously a hell of
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: a team, and I can hear just the way that
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: you're talking to us tonight that you've clearly got immense
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: support in each other and for each other, and that
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: that is incredibly special. Yeah.
• 54:37
  Speaker 5: So shout out to my grandmother because we've been talking
• 54:42
  Speaker 5: to her about the situation and she mentioned this show. Yeah,
• 54:49
  Speaker 5: so we waited up so it was our first time
• 54:52
  Speaker 5: tuning in and in calling because we didn't know about it.
• 54:56
  Speaker 5: She told us about it, so with what we would
• 54:59
  Speaker 5: call and yeah, give a bit of the story and said,
• 55:03
  Speaker 5: let's see what advice we could get.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: Jake, you don't have to let it stop here if
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: you also, if you want to send us a message
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: to get any other questions or anything like that, any
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: other information, and we're more than happy to do what
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: we can. You can find us on Facebook on the
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: Nutters Club n Z and if you need to send
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: us a message through there, you're most welcome to. And
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: the most important thing I would say is don't make
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: this the last time that we talk. You're You're most
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: welcome to come back. And I'd love to hear how
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: you get on with seeing what options are available to you,
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: and if anything we can do to help, we certainly will.
• 55:37
  Speaker 5: Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, well, we're speaking as many.
• 55:42
  Speaker 8: That let's send us you just whatever is out there
• 55:46
  Speaker 8: for us to give us any advice and how we
• 55:51
  Speaker 8: can improve things.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: Well, I hope tonight has been of value to here.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: But I must say I really appreciate you calling in,
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: and you know, I would hope that doctor m has
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: been able to give you a bit of direction there.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: Great stuff. Go well guys, and hope we get to
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: talk to you again. Eh, yep, all right, all right,
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: have a good night you two. Wasn't that sweet? I
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: just love having a having the husband and wife team
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: to call on the show. And I don't know if
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: we've ever had a dual call like that. We have
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: had it in the time. Sometimes we've had people call
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: it and they start like certain, you know, the wife
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: yells in the background and says, you got that bit wrong.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: I've had that happen a couple of times.
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: I really working on that together. Are they from the
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: love that they obviously have for each other. I just
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: thought it was really beautiful, and they're obviously both being
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: very gentle with each other and trying to get through
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: it together, and they will get through it.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: Find that solution together. Oh yeah, it's awesome when you've
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: got someone there holding your hand when you're trying to
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: figure out life's challenges. So well done. You to look
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: forward to hearing from you as to how you get on.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: All right, We've got to take a break when we
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: come back. More of your calls, more of your texts here,
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: tonight on the Nutters Club.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: This is the Nutters Club thanks to New Zealand Air
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: on News Dogs.
• 57:07
  Speaker 9: That'd be.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Nutters Club. We have had our
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: technical difficulties resolved for now, so I will I will
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: head back to our calls. Let's go back to Alby.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: He's been very patient and holding on there. Alb, sorry
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: about that. We just had the agreements on this anyway,
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: long Christmas.
• 57:29
  Speaker 9: Or something like that. But one thing that I shamed
• 57:33
  Speaker 9: of my life. You know, I had my poll by
• 57:37
  Speaker 9: and my manic side or mania comes out, and I'm
• 57:44
  Speaker 9: really ashamed. I've got in trouble with the folee. I
• 57:48
  Speaker 9: wouldn't have the argument. I'm a net revert for myself
• 57:55
  Speaker 9: and I hate look back looking back. I hate myself
• 57:59
  Speaker 9: doing that, lost a lot of friends. But now I
• 58:04
  Speaker 9: am learning from that, be humble and be nicer people.
• 58:12
  Speaker 9: And it shis drive it. Yeah, over the years of
• 58:17
  Speaker 9: taking it as told, you know.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: I can imagine so because you know, we have all
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: these sort of experiences that are related sometimes to our
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: mental health conditions that we have, and I wonder, you
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: know what what has changed to you, Alb to be
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: able to be at peace with that.
• 58:36
  Speaker 9: I think the maturity now seventy even though I've got
• 58:42
  Speaker 9: a cold. I've had a lot of help from Kevin
• 58:46
  Speaker 9: Smith from more from really in the right directions and
• 58:55
  Speaker 9: listening to me and understanding medication. Stuff like that is
• 59:03
  Speaker 9: within about four years now, and he's a very nice person.
• 59:08
  Speaker 9: And I realize how leaning from him. They just say
• 59:16
  Speaker 9: greetings to someone or something simple. We're going to a shop,
• 59:21
  Speaker 9: I'm over there, I have you know, and please and
• 59:26
  Speaker 9: thank you and editing Peter, excuse.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: Me, that's all right, Elan. I think you know, it
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: sounds good to me that you've you've just had basic,
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: a basic way of being able to approach those challenges.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: And like you're saying, we were talking about this earlier
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: in the show. We're saying, how important having those principles,
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: like you were talking there about manners and you know,
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: actually being polite with people. Just how important is to
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: know exactly, even when you are having to navigate something
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: as complicated as bipolar, knowing exactly who albe is though
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: you know that's not necessarily who you are. You are not,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: you are not the bipolar. You are LB, and you
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: are polite and kind and a courteous person.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 9: And it's good also to take part of it to
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 9: listen to people rather than talk.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not enough of us do that sometimes, you know,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: people are all just sort of waiting for their turn
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: to speak, you know, and we just actually need to
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: just listen a bit more, right.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: I really like that. Do you know you never know
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: what other people are going through?
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 5: Eh?
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 9: No, that's right. Yes, it's really good having on the
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 9: shows a lot. I've got quite a lot from there.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: Lovely, Thank you, Alby. That that makes staying awake all
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: the more worthwhile.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 6: Lovely to chat.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 9: I've got Barney here and he's my pet rock Wheeler.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 9: He looks, he looks after me.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: Loves fantastic. Well, all the all the best to you
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: and Barney and you guys. It'll probably be a bit
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: too hot for the jacket at the moment to be
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: fear Alby, But I'm glad that you got it all nonetheless,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: and look forward to hearing from you again soon.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 9: Mate, Thank you very much.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: Go well, Okay, I've got another text message here. You
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: might be able to help me on this one, Emma.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: There's a little acronym in it, so I'm not up
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: on all of the acronyms, so maybe you'll know what
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: it is. The text Donna says, I've got COPD.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's pulmonary heart disease and lungs.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: Yea, and she is. And I get depressed with it
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: some days, and I feel like I don't want to
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: live with it. There's no foundation to go to for it.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: I feel really alone with this. Any advice for people
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: who are suffering some of these, you know, really rarer and.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: Also intense physical symptoms that absolutely do change. That's a
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: life altering diagnosis, and to live with those symptoms will
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: be incredibly difficult. So it would be about finding the
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: things in your life that give you those micro moments
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: of joy amongst the other parts that give you a
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: bit more suffering. I think also the Internet is a
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: great place because you can find communities of people outside
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: of your local community who you can share stories with
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: and share kind of experiences on how other people manage
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: to so you don't feel so isolated and alone with
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: your own experience. But I just want to acknowledge that
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: must be really difficult, and I can understand how isolating
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: that would be, and it would be you know, taking
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: each day as it comes and trying to find the
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: bonents of joy in your life that you can to
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: find some balance.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: So advice there is see if you can find yourself
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: a group online, there is a lot. I mean, look
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: during COVID, you know, we saw just an absolute explosion
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: of there being all the more support groups of people online.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: I still think it's amazing that all of alcoholics anonymous
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: went online and you could like literally go and jump
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: in a meet in every fifteen minutes if you so wished.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: And I thought, well, there you go, rather than having
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: to wait till two o'clock at the local church whatever
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: it is. That's a wonderful evolution of it. So hopefully
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: you've got access there and you can make a go
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: of that. Thanks very much for the text, Donner. Right,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: let's go back to the lines. Going to go to
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: Peter Peter, good morning.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 7: Oh, good morning. Look, yesterday my friend and I Guge,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 7: traveled on the bus for two hours. We got off
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 7: was hot. Were first we walked into the dairy. He
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 7: was by the fridge. I was looking at dice scream
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 7: rolls by the counter and edited to the The shopkeeper
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 7: came and asked me, oh, what can I get you?
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 7: I was looking at my move on fish because he
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 7: looked so fiercely. I looked first to tur I said
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 7: to wow, sweemy, sirp you know, just you know, to
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 7: tea bob comes. He looked at my bird and hey,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 7: free bird, you wanna bum? He looked at me yep,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 7: oh chu and then yep, he's twenty forty seats or
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 7: three D sets. It gave me two T C Google,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 7: I gave what's my mate? We walked out and uh,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 7: he looked at your hydrated Yeah, lettle bird. Is that
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 7: I went home got depressed. Now I've just got so
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 7: depressed after that.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: That's the question. Is it paid him well?
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 7: I looked good name. That's all I could offer, a good, good,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 7: free each and just really.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 5: Well.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: Peter, I'll tell you what I'd say is that you
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: know it doesn't matter in all honesty. I think it's
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: more about the gesture rather than how big the gesture is.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: And if all you can afford is a ten cent
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: bubblegum gift, you know to offer a friend, even if
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: you'd like to do more, the fact that you're still
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: willing to give something is what is significant here. So
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: you're a good person for being considerate to somebody else,
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: even if it's not as much as you want to do.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: I think sometimes we all feel like we want to
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: do more, but we do what we can. And that
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: was you doing it.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: I think too we often underestimate that just being you know,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 4: you were on the bus with your mate for two hours,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: Just being with your friend for two hours is a
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: beautiful gift.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, Peter, thanks for the call. Good to hear
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: from you. Go well, hey, this text message just came
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: in for ALB. I'lbe hopefully you're still listening. Sure you are,
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: it says, hey LB, as a Bipolar II sufferer, I
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: can really understand how you feel. Thank you for sharing
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: your condition. Keep strong and never be ashamed. You have
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: a lot to offer others. Stay kind and be good
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: to yourself. From another Nutter in christ Church, that's very nice.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: They didn't put a name on a ALB, but I'll
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: just say to other Nutter in christ Church, good on you.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: Thank you very much, lovely that they identified the strength
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 4: to the LB has well.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, bipolar is an exhausting condition for people,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: of course, And.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: When Donna, I think it was Donna that text in earlier.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: I thought to myself, Gosh, she must be a strong
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 4: woman to be coping with what she's coping with.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: We are going to take a break. When we come back,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: I've got Matt on the line. I'd love to hear
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: from you as well. Oh, eight one hundred and eighty
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: ten eighty back in a moment. It's overnight talk on
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: news talks edb Hey, welcome back to the Nutters Club.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: Will go straight back to the lines. We're going to
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: Matt now, Matt, good morning to you. Good morning. How
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: are you very good? You're very very cheaper for this
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: time of the day. That's good to hear.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 11: Well, I'm not sleeping much anymore.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: Why why not? What's going on with the sleep?
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 6: Matt?
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 11: Oh, that's just their heads not being quiet. There's a
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 11: lot of stuff going on in my brain. I'm just
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 11: trying to get help with stuff, and I'm not kidding it.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 11: Everything is just failing.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: That's how you're feeling.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 11: What's happening? Well, you know, there's very little feeling.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how long you've been going through this, Matt? How
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: long's the sleeplessness been happening?
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 11: Ah, go for a year?
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: Over a year, that's quite a while. And look have
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: you gone to have you gone to talk to a
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: doctor about the sleeplessness at all?
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 11: Yeah, he's put on something I do fool. I'll probably
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 11: get a bit two or three sleep a day.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: And that's been Yeah, because I mean, you can't go
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: on with so little sleep. Only two or three hours
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: a day is not going to be sustainable. And I
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: think it's probably amazing that you've been able to continue
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: as long as you have already. I mean it must
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: be exhausted.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 11: I've got to Oh, I've got two kids that rely
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 11: on me, and yeah, I don't want them to see
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 11: me like like a failure.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: Well, the fact that you are prioritizing your kids, Matt,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: means that you're not a failure. Because people who look
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: after their kids and put them first, that is the
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: very definition of not being a failure. That is being
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: a success. That is incredibly important. And you are still
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: rising to that challenge despite the fact that you've got
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: your own health challenges.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 11: Well, it's it's the whole trying to put on this
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 11: mask of being everything's fine and it's not. I'm just
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 11: crumbling on the inside.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: Well, look, the fact that you can acknowledge that it's
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: that it's not going great for yourself at the moment.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: That's that's a really important first step because what it
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: allows you to do is then to figure out how
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: to make a plan to be able to get to
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: be able to make things better for yourself.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 11: I've tried to make a plan, I've applied for jobs.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 11: I've lost my vehicle, and I've gone and marooned myself
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 11: and I'm trying to get another one. And then that's
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 11: it's a hit in the brick wall.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 7: It's just.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 11: I've got no help on my own, and and that
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 11: that's hard.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: Well, look in terms of being alone, you know you've
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: got you've got us to be able to reach out to.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: And I'm really happy that you have called us here
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: tonight in terms of being able to figure out how
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: to figure out the you know, how to solve the
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: vehicle issue. Whether there's got to be a way forward
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: for you on that front, and there's a lot of
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: different ways that you can go about doing that. One
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: of the things that I would say to you, Matt,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: in terms of being able to know all of your options,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: have you had a chat with anyone at the Citizens
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: Advice Bureau?
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 5: No?
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 11: No, No, Because it's making phone calls. I can renew guys. Yeah,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 11: but it's not during the day. I'm a complete mess.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 11: I don't like the telephone. I avoid it like the plague.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: What's making you avoid it? What are you worried about?
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: When you you know, what's the feelings that you get?
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 11: Maybe you get this the bad credit loan places. Yeah,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 11: and I'll try it and I'll own them. And it's
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 11: just every time I ring them, that's no, sorry, we
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 11: can't help you. No sorry, we can't help you in it.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 11: It's the whole no sorry, we can't help you. It's like, yeah,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 11: that's what I'm going to get. So that's what that's
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 11: sort of imprinted in my brain.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: So yeah, okay, and I get that. So when you
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: call the Citizens Advice Bureau. The thing about these guys
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: is that they are dealing with people like yourself, going
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: through life's challenges all day, every day, and their bucket
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: of compassion is pretty much endless. They are incredible human beings.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: And so you know how you said you don't have
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: any problem calling us that feeling that you've got, you know,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: when you've picked up the phone to call us, I
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: need you to you to have that feeling. When you
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: pick up the phone to call the Citizens Advice Bureau,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: it's like calling the same people. They'll they'll only want
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: to help you. That's that's exactly it. And they could
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: talk through the options with you and actually give you
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: some information on that. So when you pick it up,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: just know that you're calling good people just like us,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: who will be there to help you.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 11: Good. I'll give it to go tomorrow.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: That's awesome man. And hey, that's all you can do.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 11: Give it a go on that COEOPD that well, I
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 11: think it was Donna. There's no support.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: Yep, there is. Oh, good news.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 11: The word range. I just I remember seeing it at
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 11: the doctors and I had a look the Asthma Society
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 11: of New Zealand. They have a COPD support groups and
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 11: they meet Noruckland and Wellington. Apparently that's all of New Zealand.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's excellent news, very very good to.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 11: Here one coming up on the twenty seventh of November.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, you know a lot of details. You're very knowledgeable
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: on this. This is great.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 11: It's not knowledgeable at the paid sitting in front of me.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: Well no, I mean you've got more and more information
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: on it than me.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 11: So that's it's the worst thing to get hold of
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 11: the Sthima Society.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 3: Can I just say something, Matt, see that motivation that
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 3: you've just used to find out some information for Donner.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 3: Can you try and garners in the Monder that motivation
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 3: to do that for yourself tomorrow? And I'd be really
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: grateful if you could call back next week and let
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: us know that you've done that, because when you know
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: that you've got to check in, you're more likely to
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: do something.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 11: No. I get the old I'm not worth it.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: I get that, but the support of people to tell
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 3: you that they're going to help you through that process.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 3: I think it's really important that you try and make
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: that one small step for yourself. You've just done something
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 3: amazing for Donna. That was beautiful. I want you to
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: try and find that for yourself.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 11: It was just I remember seeing a poster the doctors.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 11: Do you have COPD there's help.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: That's fantastic. Yeah, Well, Matt, I'm gonna I'm just going
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: to reiterate here, is that you are so worthy, you
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: are so deserving of help, and the fact that you
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: know you are looking after your kids. This is what
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: makes you so valuable. Right, and you are a part
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: of our nutters club. You have called in here and
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: you deserve to get this help. And the people sitting
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: on the other end there at the Citizens Advice Bureau,
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: they would love to help you. So I hope that
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: you do give it a go and look, give us
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: a call back next week. I'd love to hear how
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: it's going for you.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 11: Oh I will. I'll give them a call tomorrow.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: Good man, that's what I want to hear. You're awesome, Matt. Okay,
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: good to talk to you.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 11: Thank you, you go well, yeah.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: All the best. Yeah, that's that's a lot going on
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: for Matt. But you know, this is the thing. We
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: just make a plan, like you were saying, Sarah, you said,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: you know, when you were you know and sort of
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: trying to rebuild things. You just made really simple plans
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: for the day. Right, I'm going to do those three
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: phone calls.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 4: And Matt, if you write it down, you can cross
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 4: it off when you've done it.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: Oh A nice Dopam.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 4: I'm looking forward to listening and next Sunday, Matt, to
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 4: hear hear your progress.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: All right, we've got to take a break. When we
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: come back. I've got Tina on the line. Couple of
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: texts if you want to come, and then this is
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: probably the last part to get on the show. Roman
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: Travis will be up with you next from one am
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: through to a five am. But in the meantime we'll
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: be back here shortly on the Nutters Club.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 6: This is the Nutters Club thanks to New Zealand air
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 6: on newstalg.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: Z'b welcome back to the Nutters Club. We are going
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: to go straight back to the lines as time is
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: fast evaporating here on the show tonight. But well I'll
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: just say before I go to the next call, it's
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: been a really great conversation tonight with you all, even
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: with some of our technical challenges, but we've been getting
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: through no problem. Radio. Let's go to Tina. Tina, good
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: morning to.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 10: You, Good morning.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: Hi.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 7: Hello.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 10: I know you're running out of time, but I've called
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 10: because look, I was watching just historical stuff on the internets, okay,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 10: and you wouldn't credit this up pot lifeline. You're not alone.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 10: A lifeline ed just came up boom right in front
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 10: of me. And I mean I suffered with depression and
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 10: so I just put on historical stuff. So just text
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 10: my and then it's like twenty four ls available, call
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 10: this number, and I have you know, I have older
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 10: abruse my my daughter does treat me badly and it
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 10: courses a lot the depression, and so I went, what
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 10: the heat, Maybe I need to call this. So I
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 10: called that eight hundred number and it's like twenty four
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 10: hours available, twenty four hours and just popped up on
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 10: my ownt net and look, I called it and I
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 10: got we're available at seven am. And I was just like,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 10: what it's come out twenty four hours available, and I
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 10: just would like people to know that, like this is
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 10: I cannot believe it, but it's honestly popped up. If
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 10: you call eight hundred five four three three five four
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 10: three three five four boom, you'll get We're not available
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 10: until seven am.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: So have you tried? But the other number that you
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: could try it is one seven three seven, So one
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: seven three seven. It's the National Mental Health Help Line
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: and they do have people on twenty four to seven.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 10: But the whole thing is I was just watching something
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 10: that's come up on my aunt knees and I and
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 10: I was just like, WHOA, because my daughter has been
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 10: very very you know, mean to me and I just thought, oh,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 10: you know, I do need to speak to.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: Somebody, and you absolutely deserve to as well.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 10: Yeah, and I called and it was like I got
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 10: sid name, and so I thought, I called you because
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 10: you know, I'm so it's just it's important to me
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 10: that I let other people know. I'm a tape for myself.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 10: But I just thought, oh, my goodness, it's it's not
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 10: that's available twenty four hours. And I'm so sorry.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 5: But you know.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 10: Everyone, and I've suffered with depression for I mean, I
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 10: had bought a very very late in life, and you know,
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 10: my family say this is orderly. She's just I can't
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 10: do anything right.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: And well, the one thing, Tina, what you have done
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: right is giving us a call tonight. And I am
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: sorry that. You know, you obviously expected that there was
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: going to be somebody answering the phone when you called
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: Lifeline and there wasn't. And look, I don't I can't
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: explain to you why that is. I'm not responsible for them.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: But the good news is is that there is someone
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: available for you to speak to right now, and you
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: are one hundred percent deserve to be able to have
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: that opportunity, to be able to have a chat with someone. Obviously,
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: what's going on with your daughter would be very distressing,
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: very upsetting. So if I could encourage you to give
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: one seven three seven a call, there will be somebody
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: there to answer. They are a twenty four hour service. Tina,
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: thank you so much for calling. I'm glad that you did,
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: because as important sometimes and we are just trying to
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: get through to talk someone, you know, So do you
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: guys ever have that you know, Sarah and Iman, you know,
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: do you just you need to talk to somebody in
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: that moment? And you because I've kind of got a
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: bit of a I've got a few people that I'll
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: call and if I can't get them, you suddenly you're
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: kind of sitting there being like damn it, I know.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 3: And for Tina, it was almost like it wasn't on
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 3: top of her, and then she got prompted into an action,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 3: and then she couldn't get what she needed, and then
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 3: her first instinct then was to warn other people, to
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 3: support other people so they wouldn't have to feel the
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: feeling that she'd just felt, which I thought was really
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 3: lovely of her actually, but you're right, you know, one
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 3: of the first things that we do, because human beings
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 3: are social creatures and we're wired for connection. When we
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 3: feel in pain, we reach out to people. That's our
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 3: natural response. And then if that need hasn't been met
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 3: over time by supportive people, then we start to withdraw
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 3: and become reclusive, which is self fulfilling. So keep reaching
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 3: out and if you need to call that number and
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 3: there will be someone on the end of it.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: Now just in that time too. I have just had
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: a text from Matt. Matt again has come back with
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: the number for the Asthma Foundation for Donna Nice, So
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: I'm going to pass that on to a Donna. But
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: the eight hundred number for the Asthma Foundation, if anybody
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: else wants it is oh eight hundred double two seven
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: three two eight. That's oh eight hundred double two seven
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: three two eight.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 3: And Matt, take that energy and apply it to yourself
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 3: this week.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: It's so easy to sometimes help everybody else, and then
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: you know, we leave ourselves secondary.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 4: Tina. I just wanted to mention too, Sarah here that
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 4: Age Concern might be a good organization to reach out
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 4: to tomorrow. They also have wonderful groups where they bring
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 4: people together, so they might be a better option for
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 4: you than lifeline. Perhaps try them both.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: Brilliant, Thanks very much, Sarah. That is great. Okay, I'm
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: just seeing that number through to Donna now, so Donna's
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: got that at her fingertips. It's done. Okay, We've got
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: another couple of text here. This is one that maybe Emmy,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: you can give me a quick steer on sees. My
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: husband passed two years tomorrow. My doctor says I'm suffering anxiety,
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: not depression. Can this be correct with grief? Thank you, Margaret?
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 3: Yes, hello, Margaret. I'm firstly, I just want to acknowledge
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 3: you know, that's a big event and a big anniversary
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 3: coming up for you, So go gentle on yourself. That's
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 3: been a big change to your life and that's going
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 3: to be bringing up a lot of emotions for you.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 3: But anxiety and grief obviously are interlinked because a grief,
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 3: especially it's unexpected or a loss or a change that's
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 3: not in accordance with your preference, makes you feel out
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 3: of control and things become very uncertain. And when we
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 3: feel like things are out of control and things are uncertain,
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 3: unnatural response to that is anxiety. So they're very very
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 3: closely linked. So there are lots of management strategies you
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 3: can use. But first of all, if you're feeling anxious,
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 3: or you're feeling sad, or you're feeling low, it is
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 3: totally expected you've experienced a loss and you're about to
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 3: approach an anniversary of that loss. So please be gentle
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 3: with yourself tomorrow.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 4: Margaret Sarah here and I just I'm a funeral celebrunt
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 4: among other things. And one of the things that I
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 4: do notice is the grief, of course, isn't just when
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 4: your loved one has passed. You've often been looking after,
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 4: say your husband, for some years before he's passed away,
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 4: so I'm with him at Just be really gentle. Two
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 4: years is a very short period of time, and behind
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 4: your self. Just do little things every day that give
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 4: you some joy, and just remember that grief is one
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 4: of those it's not a straight line. It comes and
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 4: goes in different waves.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: Well, look, that is a wonderful place to actally, say,
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: Sarah Trotman, thank you very much for being our guest
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: here tonight on the Nutters Club. It's been a great
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: conversation over the last couple of hours. Thank you, thank you.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 4: I really enjoyed it.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: And doctor Emma Woodward Thank you for being with us.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: I am so sad this may be the last time
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: for some time, but safe travels. Thank you for your contribution.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 3: Thank you very much and a pleasure.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: As always, remember to the rest of you, be kind
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: to each other, be kind to yourself, and we look
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: forward to your company next week here on the Nutters Club.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: This is the Nutters Club, thanks to New Zealand on
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: air on News Talks EDB. For more from News Talks EDB,
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: listen live on air or online, and keep our shows
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: with you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.