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Pensions - Exercising Control and Risk! · A Little Bit Richer

• 0:01
  Kia: Hey, it's Kia. We've talked a lot on this podcast
• 0:04
  Kia: about the importance of workplace pensions. Kim Brown did two
• 0:08
  Kia: great episodes with me on getting to grips with your
• 0:10
  Kia: workplace pension and why they matter so much. But today,
• 0:14
  Kia: we're diving deeper into how your pension is invested. If
• 0:17
  Kia: you've been saving into your workplace pension and wondering about
• 0:20
  Kia: its performance, this is the episode for you. So what
• 0:22
  Kia: does your dream retirement look like? Holidays twice a year,
• 0:25
  Kia: being completely mortgage free, or having the money to pay
• 0:28
  Kia: for your grandkids' education? Well, however your ideal retirement looks,
• 0:32
  Kia: knowing where your money is invested and how it's growing
• 0:34
  Kia: for you is going to be crucial. Welcome to another
• 0:37
  Kia: episode of A Little Bit Richer, brought to you by
• 0:39
  Kia: my friends at Legal & General. Today, we have another expert
• 0:42
  Kia: from Legal & General, Michael Porter. Michael heads up the Workplace
• 0:45
  Kia: Pension Product Team at Legal & General, so he's the right
• 0:48
  Kia: man to explain more on how pension savings are invested,
• 0:51
  Kia: changes you can make, and how investment risk is defined.
• 0:56
  Kia: Welcome, Michael.
• 0:57
  Michael Porter: Thank you, Kia. Nice to be here.
• 0:59
  Kia: I'm really excited to have you here and talk about
• 1:01
  Kia: one of my favorite topics ever, pensions. So first things
• 1:04
  Kia: first, can you explain more about how your pension savings
• 1:07
  Kia: are actually invested?
• 1:08
  Michael Porter: Absolutely. So the first thing to understand is that your
• 1:11
  Michael Porter: pension savings are invested, as you say in your question.
• 1:15
  Michael Porter: Your pension savings aren't held in a bank account or
• 1:18
  Michael Porter: a cash savings account, so where it gathers interest and
• 1:22
  Michael Porter: the value tends to go up and not down. Pension
• 1:25
  Michael Porter: savings are pooled together with other pension saver money, and
• 1:29
  Michael Porter: they then are invested into something called an investment fund,
• 1:33
  Michael Porter: which buy and sell different types of investments, which I'll
• 1:35
  Michael Porter: come on to explain later. But the value of those
• 1:38
  Michael Porter: can go up and down.
• 1:40
  Kia: I think when it comes to pensions, they're such a
• 1:44
  Kia: great tool when it comes to planning for your retirement
• 1:47
  Kia: and having that money stored there, but it can be
• 1:49
  Kia: quite confusing. So I'm glad that you broke it down
• 1:51
  Kia: for us. But let's get a bit deeper then. So
• 1:53
  Kia: can you talk a bit more about investment risk and
• 1:56
  Kia: what that actually means? Because I think when we talk
• 1:58
  Kia: about investments and pensions, retirement, you want to make sure
• 2:01
  Kia: that you've got that secure cushion there. So when you
• 2:03
  Kia: hear the word risk, you get a bit scared, but
• 2:06
  Kia: what does that actually mean?
• 2:07
  Michael Porter: So the first thing to note is that there are
• 2:08
  Michael Porter: different types of investments that your pension savings might buy.
• 2:12
  Michael Porter: There are equities, bonds, property, cash, or a combination of
• 2:18
  Michael Porter: those. Now equities are where your money gets put to
• 2:22
  Michael Porter: good work by investing into companies, and those are typically
• 2:25
  Michael Porter: listed on a stock exchange, and the value of those
• 2:28
  Michael Porter: companies goes up and down depending on how they perform.
• 2:31
  Michael Porter: Then you've got bonds. Bonds are basically companies or governments
• 2:36
  Michael Porter: that are taking out a loan, and with that loan,
• 2:39
  Michael Porter: they pay interest on the amount of money that is
• 2:42
  Michael Porter: being borrowed, and then at the end of that loan,
• 2:44
  Michael Porter: once it matures, they pay back the original amount of
• 2:47
  Michael Porter: that loan. You then have property. Property is investing into
• 2:52
  Michael Porter: commercial real estate or commercial properties. So that might be
• 2:56
  Michael Porter: a factory, a commercial unit, it could be an office
• 2:59
  Michael Porter: block. And when an investment fund purchases one of these
• 3:03
  Michael Porter: types of properties, the value of that property goes up
• 3:06
  Michael Porter: and down. But also, those properties tend to be let
• 3:10
  Michael Porter: out and then they receive rental income, which all goes
• 3:13
  Michael Porter: towards helping your savings grow. Then you have cash, and
• 3:18
  Michael Porter: cash isn't physically held cash, so it's not like cash under a
• 3:21
  Michael Porter: mattress. It's held on something called overnight deposit. Now that
• 3:26
  Michael Porter: might be with a financial institution or it might be
• 3:29
  Michael Porter: with the government, and they tend to be a bit
• 3:31
  Michael Porter: more secure. They're not guaranteed to not go down, but
• 3:33
  Michael Porter: they are a bit more secure. And then you have
• 3:36
  Michael Porter: a combination. So some investment funds might not be specific
• 3:39
  Michael Porter: to one of those types of investments. They might hold
• 3:41
  Michael Porter: multiple investment types, and those tend to be called multi-
• 3:45
  Michael Porter: asset funds or diversified funds, diversified growth funds. Then risk.
• 3:51
  Michael Porter: Different investments have different levels of risk. So basically what
• 3:55
  Michael Porter: risk means is it's the likelihood that the value of
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  Michael Porter: your pension savings might go down. Now they go up
• 4:01
  Michael Porter: and down all the time, but in the shorter term,
• 4:03
  Michael Porter: it's all about how likely is your money going to
• 4:06
  Michael Porter: go down the following day or that particular day, and
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  Michael Porter: that's what we call volatility. So one of the benefits
• 4:13
  Michael Porter: of having a pension is that your monthly savings go
• 4:16
  Michael Porter: into buying these investments. Now, you might have heard of
• 4:19
  Michael Porter: something called pound cost averaging. What this basically means is drip-
• 4:23
  Michael Porter: feeding your money into pension savings, and some months you'll
• 4:26
  Michael Porter: be buying investments when they're lower, sometimes you'll be buying
• 4:29
  Michael Porter: investments when it's higher. This smooths out your investment experience
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  Michael Porter: and reduces the level of risk attributed to your funds,
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  Michael Porter: but ultimately, it averages out and it reduces the amount
• 4:40
  Michael Porter: of risk that your pension savings have. You can think
• 4:43
  Michael Porter: about it a little bit like British weather, particularly in
• 4:45
  Michael Porter: summertime, when there might be dry days, there might be
• 4:49
  Michael Porter: wet, rainy, cold days. But if you look back across
• 4:53
  Michael Porter: history, typically, summer tends to be warmer, hotter, and drier
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  Michael Porter: more often than not. So that's the benefit of pound
• 5:01
  Michael Porter: cost averaging. So sometimes your money might go in and
• 5:04
  Michael Porter: you're buying investments at higher cost, sometimes you'll be buying
• 5:07
  Michael Porter: them at a lower cost, but ultimately it averages out
• 5:10
  Michael Porter: and it reduces the amount of risk that your pension
• 5:13
  Michael Porter: savings have.
• 5:13
  Kia: So that is a good thing to note there. So thank you
• 5:15
  Kia: for telling us about that. You've done a really good
• 5:19
  Kia: job at breaking down the different assets that can come
• 5:22
  Kia: with an investment fund. So can you explain to us
• 5:26
  Kia: a bit more when it comes to workplace pension, where
• 5:28
  Kia: are our savings usually invested?
• 5:31
  Michael Porter: So your savings are automatically invested somewhere. So that tends
• 5:36
  Michael Porter: to be called a default fund, or you might also
• 5:38
  Michael Porter: see it referred to as a default investment option. Now,
• 5:41
  Michael Porter: there are different types of default investment options. It might
• 5:44
  Michael Porter: be a single fund or it might be a combination
• 5:47
  Michael Porter: of different types of funds that leads to an investment
• 5:50
  Michael Porter: strategy. So you have somebody that's there managing your funds
• 5:55
  Michael Porter: and your investments on your behalf. So you've got the
• 5:57
  Michael Porter: safety and comfort in knowing that your pension is invested
• 6:01
  Michael Porter: by an expert. It's managed and it's looked after. It's
• 6:05
  Michael Porter: not guaranteed in terms of it may still go down
• 6:08
  Michael Porter: because in investments markets, you do get turbulence and you
• 6:11
  Michael Porter: do get volatility in the shorter term. But over the
• 6:14
  Michael Porter: longer term, equities, for example, they've proven typically to outperform
• 6:19
  Michael Porter: cash savings accounts.
• 6:21
  Kia: So when it comes to your pension, especially the workplace
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  Kia: pension, is it best to leave the investing decisions to
• 6:26
  Kia: the experts and use the default fund that your pension
• 6:30
  Kia: company offers?
• 6:31
  Michael Porter: So, generally, default funds are most appropriate for the majority
• 6:36
  Michael Porter: of investors. However, if you do want to take that
• 6:39
  Michael Porter: little bit of extra risk, there are different investment options
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  Michael Porter: available for you, and the best way to find out
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  Michael Porter: what they are is by going onto your pension account
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  Michael Porter: online, or you might actually have received an investment guide
• 6:53
  Michael Porter: or an investment brochure, which will tell you exactly the
• 6:56
  Michael Porter: different types of investments that are available to you. So
• 6:59
  Michael Porter: firstly, you want to really check, does this default fund
• 7:02
  Michael Porter: really meet my needs in terms of my expected retirement
• 7:07
  Michael Porter: outcomes, my level of risk and my attitude towards risk,
• 7:11
  Michael Porter: or should I choose my own investments? One of the
• 7:14
  Michael Porter: most important things to say though is if you do
• 7:16
  Michael Porter: go ahead and choose your own investments, it's a bit
• 7:18
  Michael Porter: like you are now on your own. So those investments
• 7:21
  Michael Porter: don't change throughout time. If you choose to be, say,
• 7:25
  Michael Porter: a hundred percent invested into one of those equity funds
• 7:28
  Michael Porter: that we talked about where it's buying money in companies across
• 7:32
  Michael Porter: the world, then it will stay invested in that fund
• 7:35
  Michael Porter: until you review it or until you make an investment change.
• 7:39
  Kia: That's a really good point that you make there. I think,
• 7:41
  Kia: yeah, if you make that change, now you've kind of
• 7:43
  Kia: committed to being hands- on to your pension until you
• 7:46
  Kia: get to the point where you draw down on it.
• 7:48
  Kia: We've touched on it a bit because you explain the
• 7:50
  Kia: different types of assets that are available, but can you,
• 7:53
  Kia: just for our listeners, explain diversification in simple terms? Because
• 7:57
  Kia: we hear diversifying your risk, diversifying your investments, but can
• 8:01
  Kia: you explain it in simple terms and what this means
• 8:03
  Kia: for not just your pension, but also other savings as well?
• 8:06
  Michael Porter: Definitely. So diversification, in its simplest terms, is not putting
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  Michael Porter: all of your eggs into one basket, so not going
• 8:14
  Michael Porter: all in on equities or all in into a bond
• 8:17
  Michael Porter: fund. So if you think about it a bit like
• 8:20
  Michael Porter: going to a buffet, so actually at a buffet you
• 8:24
  Michael Porter: would go and try a few different types of food,
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  Michael Porter: and the chances are then that if there's one part
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  Michael Porter: of that meal that you don't like, then there are
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  Michael Porter: going to be other options available to you that you
• 8:34
  Michael Porter: will like, ultimately. So that's the first thing. And the
• 8:37
  Michael Porter: other thing I would say is that you should probably
• 8:41
  Michael Porter: have a balanced diet as well. So not just all
• 8:43
  Michael Porter: about pension savings, you probably want to diversify where your
• 8:47
  Michael Porter: savings are invested, because they all serve a different purpose.
• 8:50
  Michael Porter: So pensions for example, saving into a pension is going
• 8:54
  Michael Porter: to help you towards saving for retirement. But then if
• 8:57
  Michael Porter: you've got medium- term savings goals, you might want to
• 8:59
  Michael Porter: invest in something like a stocks and shares ISA, or
• 9:02
  Michael Porter: have a cash ISA.
• 9:03
  Kia: Michael, you are the expert that we needed for this
• 9:06
  Kia: to break it down. We're going a bit further now.
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  Kia: We hear the words active and passive, and whenever I
• 9:16
  Kia: think about it in non- financial terms, I'm thinking about
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  Kia: if I'm in the gym, I'm active, if I'm sitting
• 9:20
  Kia: at home on a sofa, I'm passive. But these have
• 9:23
  Kia: slightly different meanings when it comes to investments. So what's
• 9:26
  Kia: the difference between a fund that's actively managed versus one
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  Kia: that's passively managed?
• 9:32
  Michael Porter: So an active fund is where you have a fund
• 9:35
  Michael Porter: manager that is actively looking to find different investment types
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  Michael Porter: or investment opportunities. So they would go out and they
• 9:43
  Michael Porter: would research companies. So if you're talking about an equity
• 9:45
  Michael Porter: fund, they'd go out and research the companies and then
• 9:48
  Michael Porter: identify those that they want to put into their investment
• 9:52
  Michael Porter: fund. So for a passive fund, that's where an investment
• 9:56
  Michael Porter: manager or a fund manager would invest into every company
• 10:00
  Michael Porter: that is listed on a particular stock exchange or within
• 10:03
  Michael Porter: an index. So if you invest in a UK equity
• 10:06
  Michael Porter: index fund, let's say, the index is the FTSE All-
• 10:10
  Michael Porter: Share. Now that is made up of the top 600
• 10:13
  Michael Porter: companies within the London Stock Exchange, which is about 2000
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  Michael Porter: companies. What your passive fund tries to do is it
• 10:21
  Michael Porter: tries to match the performance of all of those companies.
• 10:25
  Michael Porter: So it will hold those companies based on their relative
• 10:28
  Michael Porter: value, and then you'll see your fund go up and
• 10:30
  Michael Porter: down depending on how all of those companies in combination
• 10:34
  Michael Porter: perform. So active funds tend to hold less companies or
• 10:39
  Michael Porter: less investments, which might mean that it has a greater
• 10:43
  Michael Porter: amount of risk that we talked about because it's less
• 10:46
  Michael Porter: diversified, but a passive fund, because it would hold more
• 10:50
  Michael Porter: of those companies or investments, it will be potentially less
• 10:55
  Michael Porter: risky. But that's not to say that it wouldn't go
• 10:58
  Michael Porter: down in value.
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  Kia: I'm interested then, off the back of that, or the active
• 11:02
  Kia: fund, because there is someone who's actively going out there
• 11:05
  Kia: and researching, is there a difference between the two funds,
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  Kia: for example, maybe in the fees because you have someone
• 11:10
  Kia: who's actively working on that?
• 11:11
  Michael Porter: So active funds tend to hold a bit more of
• 11:15
  Michael Porter: an investment cost to them. So there are fees that
• 11:17
  Michael Porter: are charged as a result of it, which it's either
• 11:19
  Michael Porter: called an investment management charge or a fund management charge,
• 11:23
  Michael Porter: because they are having to go out, meet with companies,
• 11:27
  Michael Porter: they're having to do their investment research, they have analysts
• 11:30
  Michael Porter: that do all of the investigation and research, whereas a
• 11:34
  Michael Porter: passive fund, there's much more automation that's involved. So as
• 11:38
  Michael Porter: it tries to track the performance of companies, it will
• 11:41
  Michael Porter: buy and sell those companies based on how they perform
• 11:43
  Michael Porter: on a daily basis, which is far more automated, and
• 11:46
  Michael Porter: as a result, they tend to be a bit cheaper.
• 11:48
  Kia: Okay, that's good to know. Thank you so much. When
• 11:51
  Kia: you're looking at your pension savings and investments, can you
• 11:53
  Kia: see which companies your money's actually invested in? Can you
• 11:57
  Kia: see the breakdown or is it more of like an
• 11:59
  Kia: overview of where your money is?
• 12:01
  Michael Porter: So the first thing you probably want to do is
• 12:04
  Michael Porter: log into your pension account online. That's if your pension provider
• 12:08
  Michael Porter: or your pension scheme has that facility available. If you
• 12:12
  Michael Porter: don't know who your pension provider is, the best thing
• 12:14
  Michael Porter: to do is go and speak to your HR department
• 12:16
  Michael Porter: and they will point you in the right direction. But
• 12:19
  Michael Porter: once you've been able to register and you've got access
• 12:21
  Michael Porter: online, you can then see where your money is invested.
• 12:24
  Michael Porter: So what's the default fund that it holds? Typically, there's
• 12:27
  Michael Porter: also an investment guide that comes alongside your pension. So
• 12:32
  Michael Porter: you want to have a read of that pension guide
• 12:34
  Michael Porter: or the investment guide to find out what's the investment
• 12:37
  Michael Porter: strategy. Once you've identified that, if you want to even
• 12:40
  Michael Porter: delve a little bit deeper and really find out whereabouts
• 12:43
  Michael Porter: your pension savings are invested, pension schemes tend to offer
• 12:48
  Michael Porter: something called a fund fact sheet. And a fund fact
• 12:51
  Michael Porter: sheet is basically just telling you what's the name of
• 12:54
  Michael Porter: the fund, what's its objective, where is it invested, how
• 12:58
  Michael Porter: is it performed, what's its level of risk as well,
• 13:01
  Michael Porter: and you might even get to see the top 10
• 13:03
  Michael Porter: holdings of a fund. So it might be invested in
• 13:06
  Michael Porter: the top 10 companies within the FTSE 100, for example. Also,
• 13:11
  Michael Porter: the other thing to note is that if you're invested
• 13:13
  Michael Porter: in one of these passive funds, the chances are you're
• 13:16
  Michael Porter: going to be invested in all of those companies that
• 13:18
  Michael Porter: will be held within that index.
• 13:20
  Kia: That's good to know. So Michael, the stock market has
• 13:24
  Kia: seen a dramatic ride in recent years, so should people
• 13:27
  Kia: be worried that their pension savings won't grow very well,
• 13:30
  Kia: or that it might be better to save their money
• 13:32
  Kia: in a savings account or a cash ISA?
• 13:34
  Michael Porter: The last few years, we've seen quite a lot of
• 13:37
  Michael Porter: market turbulence, as we would call it. So that's where
• 13:39
  Michael Porter: investment markets have gone up and down. Now that's been
• 13:42
  Michael Porter: as a result of Brexit. We've had the Russian war
• 13:45
  Michael Porter: in Ukraine. We've had a lot of political uncertainty, and also COVID
• 13:50
  Michael Porter: as well. So these have been unprecedented times, really. But
• 13:54
  Michael Porter: the main thing to note is that your pension savings,
• 13:58
  Michael Porter: they're a long- term investment, so you're investing for a
• 14:00
  Michael Porter: long time, over 30, 40 years. So it's important that you
• 14:04
  Michael Porter: don't make any rash decisions. You might expect to see
• 14:07
  Michael Porter: your pension savings go down in the short term, but
• 14:11
  Michael Porter: history shows us that over the long term, they tend
• 14:14
  Michael Porter: to do quite well from a performance perspective. But again,
• 14:18
  Michael Porter: not guaranteed, can still go down and you might actually
• 14:21
  Michael Porter: get back less than you put in, but typically, they
• 14:24
  Michael Porter: will grow.
• 14:25
  Kia: When it comes to fees and charges, I know we
• 14:29
  Kia: touched on it a little bit, but what are the
• 14:32
  Kia: fees and charges that we can expect on pension savings,
• 14:35
  Kia: and how do they differ across different fund types?
• 14:39
  Michael Porter: There are lots of different types of fees, and they
• 14:40
  Michael Porter: might be charged in different ways, but typically the two
• 14:44
  Michael Porter: main ones are investment fees that we talked about earlier,
• 14:46
  Michael Porter: or a fund management charges, and then there's also an
• 14:50
  Michael Porter: administration fee. So this is the cost of the operational
• 14:54
  Michael Porter: servicing of your pension scheme as you change your address
• 14:57
  Michael Porter: or whatever it might be that you're getting in touch
• 14:59
  Michael Porter: with your pension administrator for. Investment charges can differ between
• 15:04
  Michael Porter: investment types as well. So the active funds that we
• 15:07
  Michael Porter: talked about earlier, they can tend to be slightly more
• 15:09
  Michael Porter: expensive. Passive funds can be slightly cheaper, and they also
• 15:13
  Michael Porter: differ across different investment types. There are some other charges.
• 15:18
  Michael Porter: You have something called additional fund expenses and transaction costs.
• 15:22
  Michael Porter: It's important that you know that these aren't charged by the pension scheme
• 15:24
  Michael Porter: provider or by the fund manager. They're the cost of
• 15:27
  Michael Porter: buying and selling the investments. So it's important that you
• 15:31
  Michael Porter: don't frequently switch funds. So when we talked about earlier,
• 15:35
  Michael Porter: can you choose a different investment from the default? Yes,
• 15:37
  Michael Porter: you absolutely can, but you incur a cost as a
• 15:41
  Michael Porter: result of switching, and frequently switching is going to eventually
• 15:45
  Michael Porter: reduce the amount of money that you have at the
• 15:47
  Michael Porter: end when you come to retire. And an example of
• 15:50
  Michael Porter: that is like baking a cake. So if you go
• 15:53
  Michael Porter: to bake a cake and you're constantly opening the oven
• 15:56
  Michael Porter: door, you're letting some of that hot air out and
• 15:59
  Michael Porter: it might not rise as much as you might expect.
• 16:01
  Michael Porter: So keep that door closed, let the oven do its
• 16:04
  Michael Porter: thing, and then you can experience what the cake is
• 16:07
  Michael Porter: like once you open it and the time finishes. But it
• 16:09
  Michael Porter: is important to say that different ovens, so if we
• 16:12
  Michael Porter: think about ovens as the investment types, different ovens would
• 16:15
  Michael Porter: cook at different speeds and you might get a different
• 16:17
  Michael Porter: outcome each time, and you're not always guaranteed to get
• 16:20
  Michael Porter: back what you put in.
• 16:21
  Kia: Michael, you have some of the best analogies that I've
• 16:24
  Kia: come across when it comes to explaining difficult financial jargon.
• 16:27
  Kia: Keep going. I always want to just ask you more
• 16:30
  Kia: questions so you can give me more analogies. That is great.
• 16:32
  Michael Porter: I've got more.
• 16:33
  Kia: I know you've got them loaded up. It was good.
• 16:36
  Kia: But before we end this episode, because you've shared so
• 16:38
  Kia: many amazing tips, can you share our listeners your top
• 16:41
  Kia: three tips on workplace pension investments?
• 16:44
  Michael Porter: Yep, absolutely. So it's important to remember that pensions are
• 16:48
  Michael Porter: a long- term investment. Don't make any rash decisions. You
• 16:51
  Michael Porter: might expect to see it go up and down, so
• 16:53
  Michael Porter: don't react based on short- term changes. Secondly, the sooner
• 16:57
  Michael Porter: you start saving, the more time that you give for
• 16:59
  Michael Porter: your investments to grow, and it's important that you start
• 17:02
  Michael Porter: early. And then finally, can you save a little bit
• 17:05
  Michael Porter: more? So are you making the most of that employer
• 17:07
  Michael Porter: matching contribution? Can you add a little bit extra in?
• 17:11
  Michael Porter: Or as you get a salary increase, maybe you might
• 17:13
  Michael Porter: be lucky enough to get a pay rise, could you put a
• 17:16
  Michael Porter: little bit of that towards your pension savings? Ultimately, putting
• 17:20
  Michael Porter: a little bit more aside today or sacrificing a little
• 17:22
  Michael Porter: bit today will only benefit you when you come to retiring.
• 17:27
  Kia: Michael, thank you so much for coming onto the podcast.
• 17:30
  Kia: You have been incredible breaking down workplace pensions in such
• 17:33
  Kia: simple terms for us to understand. Between your episode and
• 17:36
  Kia: the two episodes with Kim, I think we have got
• 17:39
  Kia: pensions down to a tee. So thank you so, so much.
• 17:42
  Michael Porter: Thanks.
• 17:43
  Kia: There's lots of useful information to help us get engaged
• 17:46
  Kia: and grow our workplace pension. Next time, we're talking all
• 17:49
  Kia: about parenting and finances with Charlotte Jessup from Looking After
• 17:52
  Kia: Your Pennies. I'd love it if you could review the
• 17:55
  Kia: podcast, spread the word, and help others get a little bit richer too.
• 17:59
  Kia: Keep up with the show on TikTok and Instagram at Legal & General.
• 18:02
  Kia: Thank you for listening. See you soon.