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Plato's Republic, Book 8: How Democracy becomes Tyranny · Mahon McCann

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  SPEAKER_00: hello my name is mahon i'm an irish philosophy phd researcher
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  SPEAKER_00: and part-time lecturer philosophy and ethics and this is lecture eight
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  SPEAKER_00: of plato's republic series
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  SPEAKER_00: course we'll be dealing with book eight in this lecture if you haven't seen the other lectures
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  SPEAKER_00: i recommend checking them out the link will be in the description let's jump in book
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  SPEAKER_00: a returns us
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  SPEAKER_00: to the main plot of the republic after the digression of book five six seven if you remember
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  SPEAKER_00: in book two the main plod of the republican really is this question of why is
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  SPEAKER_00: the just life better
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  SPEAKER_00: than the unjust life why do the wages of justice outweigh those of injustice when oftentimes
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  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the just person might get nothing but suffering and pain and death for their,
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  SPEAKER_00: their virtue.
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  SPEAKER_00: and in order to address that question plato has this methodology where he's going
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  SPEAKER_00: to build a city in speech basically and in the larger structure of
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  SPEAKER_00: the city we'll start to see justice and injustice emerging and really this city is
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  SPEAKER_00: a metaphor for the psyche which is what he talks about next in book four which is
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  SPEAKER_00: the tripartite psyche so how he uses the city as a metaphor for our mind
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  SPEAKER_00: for our psychology and how justice and injustice emerges in that and so after
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  SPEAKER_00: that he's kind of put up
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  SPEAKER_00: the philosopher king as the most just person the true just life
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  SPEAKER_00: which is what we see dramatically in the cave the person who is the most just and so
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  SPEAKER_00: that raises the question of who is the most unjust you know Glaucon suggests
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  SPEAKER_00: in book 2 that really to address this question they need to get the most just person
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  SPEAKER_00: and the most unjust person
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  SPEAKER_00: and put them up like two statues
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  SPEAKER_00: that kind of compare
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  SPEAKER_00: and contrast them with each other.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so they've established
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  SPEAKER_00: The Philosopher King
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  SPEAKER_00: as the most just person
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  SPEAKER_00: and now we need to establish
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  SPEAKER_00: the most injust person
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  SPEAKER_00: who is the tyrant, really.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so in order to do this
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  SPEAKER_00: Plato's going to again return
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  SPEAKER_00: to this kind of city methodology
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  SPEAKER_00: and discuss the degeneration of different constitutions from aristocracy which is
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  SPEAKER_00: the philosopher the one ruled by the philosopher king with the kind of
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  SPEAKER_00: different levels as a metaphor for how the soul should work
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  SPEAKER_00: um and how it degenerates through these other regimes
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  SPEAKER_00: into tyranny base so in this chapter we're going to see
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  SPEAKER_00: each regime and we're gonna see how the regime
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  SPEAKER_00: falls apart but also had the character
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  SPEAKER_00: of the typical person affects the regime as such that the regime has
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  SPEAKER_00: a particular value system and this value system becomes the character of the people
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  SPEAKER_00: who participate and then their kind of degeneration is what creates you know
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  SPEAKER_00: the next regimes very interesting scheme and so here's an image of the five regimes
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  SPEAKER_00: which I stole from the internet sorry I should probably put a
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  SPEAKER_00: i'll leave a link to the actual post here in it but it's a great illustration really
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  SPEAKER_00: of how these regimes the top one it's an aristocracy kind of a monarchy in a way
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  SPEAKER_00: with the philosopher king basically at the top and then this degenerates into
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  SPEAKER_00: a timocracy and then an oligarchy and then a democracy and then a tyranny okay
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  SPEAKER_00: and we'll go through each of these the degeneration of each constitution and
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  SPEAKER_00: the character that it leads to so plato says
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  SPEAKER_00: it is necessary that there also be as many forms of human characters
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  SPEAKER_00: as there are forms of regimes or do you suppose
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  SPEAKER_00: that the regimes arise from oaks and rocks
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  SPEAKER_00: and not from the dispositions of men in the cities
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  SPEAKER_00: which tipping the scale, as it were
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  SPEAKER_00: draw the rest along with them
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  SPEAKER_00: so basically he's like
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  SPEAKER_00: the constitutions come from the character
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  SPEAKER_00: of the people
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  SPEAKER_00: they're
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  SPEAKER_00: and they also causally kind of constrain their characters
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  SPEAKER_00: so
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  SPEAKER_00: democracies create democratic characters,
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  SPEAKER_00: oligarchies create
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  SPEAKER_00: oligarchy characters
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  SPEAKER_00: but also
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  SPEAKER_00: oligary characters
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  SPEAKER_00: create oligarky
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  SPEAKER_00: and vice versa.
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  SPEAKER_00: So there's five constitutions
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  SPEAKER_00: and there's
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  SPEAKER_00: five characters
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  SPEAKER_00: but the point of these
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  SPEAKER_00: this kind of comparison
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  SPEAKER_00: between the constitution
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  SPEAKER_00: character again
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  SPEAKER_00: is this question
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  SPEAKER_00: of the most unjust
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  SPEAKER_00: in the just life
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  SPEAKER_00: why is the just
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  SPEAKER_00: life happier?
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  SPEAKER_00: it's kind of a weird idea that constitutions can create characters in people
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  SPEAKER_00: but you can think about it like this the laws of a state aim at a particular type
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  SPEAKER_00: of person it constrains the probability space of the type of person that you can be
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  SPEAKER_00: in a particular state
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  SPEAKER_00: or a particular regime and so within those laws they aim at an ideal character uh in
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  SPEAKER_00: that sense the
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  SPEAKER_00: ideal character is actually what makes the laws valid or not it's the source of their authority
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  SPEAKER_00: and so like in our own state you know you can't murder you can steal you can ritually sacrifice
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  SPEAKER_00: people and these are norms of behavior that we just follow
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  SPEAKER_00: and make up who we are that constitution aims at a particular character and each one
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  SPEAKER_00: that plato is going to talk about you know for aristocracy in this case it's
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  SPEAKER_00: the lover of wisdom timocracy the lover of honor oligarchy lover of money lover
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  SPEAKER_00: of gain democracy lover of freedom and then tyranny obviously just yeah a lover
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  SPEAKER_00: of desire so let's jump in and talk about the first one
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  SPEAKER_00: which is aristocracy we've really i mean
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  SPEAKER_00: plato doesn't deal with it that much in this chapter because it's what all the other chapters
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  SPEAKER_00: have been about really in terms of the myth of the medals it's where gold is at the top
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  SPEAKER_00: then silver and then bronze so gold are the rulers below that are
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  SPEAKER_00: the auxiliaries, the warriors and then the producer class at the bottom
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  SPEAKER_00: but so everybody kind of plays their role in this hierarchy. In terms
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  SPEAKER_00: of the tripartite psyche it's where reason and spirit work
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  SPEAKER_00: together to govern the appetite and that creates psychological harmony
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  SPEAKER_00: which is justice and Plato's like this is
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  SPEAKER_00: ideal, this is where things are working well but because
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  SPEAKER_00: things change
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  SPEAKER_00: you know there's always decline uh any change from this kind of perfection is going
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  SPEAKER_00: to lead to a degeneration of of the ideal constitution or the ideal state now
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  SPEAKER_00: the reason he gives for the uh degeneration of the state in book eight or
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  SPEAKER_00: the aristocracy is uh
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  SPEAKER_00: i mean a source of constant consternation really which is
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  SPEAKER_00: the nuptial number my students are very interested in this a lot of the time uh
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  SPEAKER_00: which is just i mean it's one of those strange things that has kind of been lost
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  SPEAKER_00: to history but it's called the nuptial or the fatal number the plato uh
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  SPEAKER_00: brings up this enigmatic mathematical formula basically for a divine cycle
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  SPEAKER_00: that governs human reproduction and
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  SPEAKER_00: the state stability you know you can look this up there's calculations
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  SPEAKER_00: of it something like if you don't yeah if you don't reproduce properly at
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  SPEAKER_00: the right times then it leads to a downgrading of the quality of the people in
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  SPEAKER_00: the city and then
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  SPEAKER_00: this kind of intergenerational decline means they're not as good as
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  SPEAKER_00: the previous ones and then they produce ones that are even worse than them
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  SPEAKER_00: and it basically society breaks down he says it leads
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  SPEAKER_00: to intergroup conflict intergroup civil war and really the decay of the city
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  SPEAKER_00: the nuptial number thing it's crazy Ficino writes a lot about it
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  SPEAKER_00: if you're interested basically it's a problem
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  SPEAKER_00: of intergenerational transmission it breaks down over time
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  SPEAKER_00: and so yeah the city kind of starts to fragment there's conflict
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  SPEAKER_00: and this is resolved with the invention of private property
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  SPEAKER_00: so some people go this is mine some people say this is yours and this is what leads
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  SPEAKER_00: to timocracy according to plato so the iron and bronze classes start
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  SPEAKER_00: to prioritize wealth and property over virtue obviously which is the gold
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  SPEAKER_00: and silver class kind of care about virtue and in this way timocracy is like
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  SPEAKER_00: an intermediary between oligarchy and aristocracy
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  SPEAKER_00: there's good stuff in it like even though people love honor they still kind of
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  SPEAKER_00: because they love honor they still have some virtue but also that love
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  SPEAKER_00: of honor means they make a lot of war which kind of nourishes the spirited
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  SPEAKER_00: and appetite of parts but not reason and so
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  SPEAKER_00: they start to love wealth more and as Plato kind of argues
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  SPEAKER_00: the more they value money making
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  SPEAKER_00: the less they value virtue Plato actually describes them
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  SPEAKER_00: as like they're like opposite ends of a scale basically that they go
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  SPEAKER_00: in opposite directions
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  SPEAKER_00: so basically like when wealth and honor are valued
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  SPEAKER_00: above virtue people practice it less you know what is valued is practiced
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  SPEAKER_00: and what is not valued is neglected and the result of this neglecting of virtue
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  SPEAKER_00: for honor and for wealth is that you end up with two cities kind of forming
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  SPEAKER_00: people start to value wealth and so they start
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  SPEAKER_00: to see things in terms of rich and poor really
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  SPEAKER_00: instead of virtue. And so you get a
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  SPEAKER_00: wealthy and powerful minority, the ones that are
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  SPEAKER_00: the most pursuing honor, that take over
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  SPEAKER_00: a lot of stuff, and they put themselves
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  SPEAKER_00: above the law basically
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  SPEAKER_00: They become a kind of upper class
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  SPEAKER_00: and you can see how this is
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  SPEAKER_00: becoming an oligarchy essentially
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  SPEAKER_00: And so then people in the lower class
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  SPEAKER_00: started going well they don't care about virtue or
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  SPEAKER_00: you know give shit about any of this stuff so like why should we do it as well
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  SPEAKER_00: that starts to become
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  SPEAKER_00: all about wealth an interesting thing plato does in this chapter is that as well as giving the
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  SPEAKER_00: degeneration of the state he gives a psychological evaluation really of the
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  SPEAKER_00: degeneration of the character
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  SPEAKER_00: of the people in the state
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  SPEAKER_00: so he talks about the timocratic youth basically who's born in the aristocracy
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  SPEAKER_00: but he's a lover of victory and honor really he's he's not as apt as the music and
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  SPEAKER_00: the arts and giving speeches he's a bit more savage and his right
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  SPEAKER_00: to rule he think comes from from might
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  SPEAKER_00: and war you know he's seen people uh criticize his reason loving father as
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  SPEAKER_00: as being too reasonable and uh
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  SPEAKER_00: and basically that he's soft because he's he's not fighting people enough and so
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  SPEAKER_00: while his father waters the reason in his soul all the others kind of water
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  SPEAKER_00: the spirit and the appetite and this this gives him a kind of inflated love of honor
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  SPEAKER_00: over reason
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  SPEAKER_00: at the start when he's younger this means he wants to make war
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  SPEAKER_00: and Plato says he'd be brutal to slaves but tame with powerful people you know
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  SPEAKER_00: to kind of get his own reputation up but as he abandons virtue he becomes more of
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  SPEAKER_00: a money lover really and you can kind of think about that
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  SPEAKER_00: where it's like he loves war and competition and then that transitions
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  SPEAKER_00: to like business and power and wealth because there's an element of status there
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  SPEAKER_00: as well and Plato really argues that this is because
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  SPEAKER_00: the the democratic youth has been abandoned by the best guardian which he says
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  SPEAKER_00: which is argument mixed with music it's an educational failure Plato's arguing
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  SPEAKER_00: that they failed to really enculturate the love of virtue in the democratic youth
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  SPEAKER_00: and so honor has become a kind of substitute and that there's some good stuff with
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  SPEAKER_00: the love of honor again it does kind of lead
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  SPEAKER_00: to some virtues maybe courage maybe some elements of moderation but it doesn't lead
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  SPEAKER_00: to wisdom is Plato's problem and so it's on the road to getting into trouble so
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  SPEAKER_00: the next constitution is oligarchy
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  SPEAKER_00: basically oligarchy is when the rich rule the poor do not poor have no no rule in us at all
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  SPEAKER_00: And wealth and property is preferred to virtue
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  SPEAKER_00: and civic duty.
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  SPEAKER_00: And how does this degenerate?
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  SPEAKER_00: Like, why does the oligarchy fall apart?
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  SPEAKER_00: He gives the example of a ship again,
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  SPEAKER_00: a sea captain where it's like
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  SPEAKER_00: should you choose your sea captain
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  SPEAKER_00: is should it be the person who knows best
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  SPEAKER_00: how to run a ship
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  SPEAKER_00: and how to navigate
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  SPEAKER_00: and go with the stars in the sky
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  SPEAKER_00: or should it just be whoever's wealthiest basically.
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  SPEAKER_00: So like in an oligarchy
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  SPEAKER_00: rich people start to get all the jobs
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  SPEAKER_00: they get all these opportunities
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  SPEAKER_00: which starts to make things break down basically the focus on
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  SPEAKER_00: the money making gives them all the opportunities and creates a class of people
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  SPEAKER_00: that are basically outside of the civic and economic life of
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  SPEAKER_00: the city state this is what he talks about with two cities one rich and one poor and
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  SPEAKER_00: so you start to get a class of people in oligarchy who are unemployed
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  SPEAKER_00: who are homeless who have no purpose in the city really they have no no role in it
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  SPEAKER_00: in its upkeep and so they become disenfranchised really what's the downfall
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  SPEAKER_00: of oligarchy obviously
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  SPEAKER_00: the disenfranchised majority will overthrow this wealthy minority eventually you
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  SPEAKER_00: know plato predicts
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  SPEAKER_00: so much of history of uh based on this one idea of like yeah that's that's how
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  SPEAKER_00: that goes the way he describes it very interestingly like that if they go to war
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  SPEAKER_00: or they're on a ship together or something the poor people who will be tanned
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  SPEAKER_00: and lean will start to see how pasty and flabby the rich people are
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  SPEAKER_00: and think they're weak and
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  SPEAKER_00: so think well basically we can just take whatever they've got and overthrow them
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  SPEAKER_00: and that's how the oligarchy becomes a democracy but before we get into
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  SPEAKER_00: that i mean he gives the psychological account again of why
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  SPEAKER_00: how uh the democratic youth uh becomes oligarchic so the son who's the going to be
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  SPEAKER_00: the oligarch has the democratic youth as a father basically because of his love
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  SPEAKER_00: of honor uh he loses property and he becomes you know hooked
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  SPEAKER_00: on money making basically he thinks money is the really really important stuff so
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  SPEAKER_00: the honor loving part of him is dethroned when he is not victorious and he switches
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  SPEAKER_00: to money loving uh as an alternative
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  SPEAKER_00: he makes reason and spirit subject to appetite because he values money
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  SPEAKER_00: above everything else basically but in the oligarchic youth this love
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  SPEAKER_00: of money actually restrains the other appetites in some sense he has
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  SPEAKER_00: an inner civil war between them but his need to make money and kind
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  SPEAKER_00: of be successful I suppose restrains the other appetites but then obviously
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  SPEAKER_00: when he has money and he has more opportunity he's gonna need to meet those needs
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  SPEAKER_00: and so it articulates that he's he's split in two in a way in the same way
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  SPEAKER_00: the city's split in two between the rich and the poor so does
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  SPEAKER_00: the oligarchic youth become split in two and so the oligarchy becomes a democracy
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  SPEAKER_00: because the people who overthrow the wealthy class decide well that was unfair
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  SPEAKER_00: so we're gonna have everything in common
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  SPEAKER_00: equality for everybody basically and plato says to
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  SPEAKER_00: the uneducated eye this would seem like the fairest regime basically
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  SPEAKER_00: so he says democracy is all about freedom
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  SPEAKER_00: and equality people can arrange their lives anyway they please it's
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  SPEAKER_00: the most colorful of all of the regimes in the aristocracy the you have the lover
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  SPEAKER_00: of wisdom is the kind of dominant character timocracy it's the lover
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  SPEAKER_00: of honor oligarchy obviously it's the lover of money
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  SPEAKER_00: but in the democracy it's kind of like a you know a thousand flowers bloom all
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  SPEAKER_00: the different regimes and characters come to exist in
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  SPEAKER_00: the democracy you know you've got money lovers you've got wisdom lovers you've got
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  SPEAKER_00: honor lovers and so it looks the most pleasing Gledos like it has all these it's
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  SPEAKER_00: an amazing ground to study all the different regimes and different characters
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  SPEAKER_00: that are possible
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  SPEAKER_00: and so what's the problem basically like why doesn't this work
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  SPEAKER_00: that Plato's identified and he argues that the focus on freedom leads to a lack
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  SPEAKER_00: of self-regulation basically a lack of norms a lack of values
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  SPEAKER_00: that can restrain people pursuing pleasures destructively
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  SPEAKER_00: so basically it becomes decadent the extreme freedom turns to extreme slavery
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  SPEAKER_00: to desires the freedom that's been dispensed to everybody with no kind
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  SPEAKER_00: of authority really
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  SPEAKER_00: leads to chaos people aren't responsible people aren't competent and then that leads
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  SPEAKER_00: to the opportunity the decadence that leads to the chaos leads to an opportunity for
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  SPEAKER_00: an authoritarian to kind of come in and reinforce order top down
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  SPEAKER_00: as plato is well aware then democracy relies on personal responsibility and virtue
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  SPEAKER_00: and because of the emphasis on freedom
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  SPEAKER_00: there's not enough emphasis on responsibility and virtue,
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  SPEAKER_00: and that causes the corruption of the state.
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  SPEAKER_00: And obviously this is then going to be
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  SPEAKER_00: the kind of tinder,
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  SPEAKER_00: the kindling that leads
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  SPEAKER_00: to the emergence of the tyrant
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  SPEAKER_00: that Plato identifies.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so turning to
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  SPEAKER_00: the psychological transformation,
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  SPEAKER_00: how does the oligarchic youth
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  SPEAKER_00: raise these democratic children?
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  SPEAKER_00: Basically.
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  SPEAKER_00: and socrates makes an important distinction here between necessary
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  SPEAKER_00: and unnecessary desires so necessary desires are ones that we can meet that we have
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  SPEAKER_00: to meet you know like drinking water and eating food
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  SPEAKER_00: and unnecessary desires are ones that we don't have to meet and that can be removed
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  SPEAKER_00: with training basically it's like you don't actually have to have them
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  SPEAKER_00: but obviously the democracy doesn't make any distinction between necessary
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  SPEAKER_00: and unnecessary desires and because of
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  SPEAKER_00: the freedom people can just you know gorge themselves on whatever desire comes along
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  SPEAKER_00: and so they're kind of slaves to desire virtue in that sense leads to self mastery
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  SPEAKER_00: and freedom and so
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  SPEAKER_00: the democratic youth is kind of just vulnerable basically
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  SPEAKER_00: to whatever desire comes along Plato says seeing the citadel of
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  SPEAKER_00: the young man's soul empty of knowledge fine ways of living and words of truth they
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  SPEAKER_00: the desires occupy the citadel themselves really interesting Plato recognizes
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  SPEAKER_00: because Plato would say our character is defined by what we love or what we desire
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  SPEAKER_00: so like
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  SPEAKER_00: the philosopher king loves wisdom desires wisdom democratic desires honor loves
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  SPEAKER_00: honor the oligarch loves money
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  SPEAKER_00: so the love of freedom itself as a good leads to this kind of vacuousness really
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  SPEAKER_00: that unfortunately can be occupied by just whatever desire is most dominant and
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  SPEAKER_00: that creates the kind of colourful society for sure that Plato's identifying
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  SPEAKER_00: but it also leads to corruption because there's no normativity to follow
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  SPEAKER_00: and as things become kind of more corrupt uh he argues the
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  SPEAKER_00: the democratic youth will be kind of confused in
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  SPEAKER_00: a way he said they'll try out everything it's pretty funny he says
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  SPEAKER_00: the one minute you know they'll be drinking and listening to the flute
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  SPEAKER_00: then they'll be exercising
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  SPEAKER_00: and doing gymnastics then they'll be trying philosophy and money making and
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: if he admires a soldier you know he'll go and try and be a soldier
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: but basically lacks the kind of discipline necessary to actually become anything
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: and i mean jesus like social media is is a pretty good example of that um
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: of just trying out everything and i've done it myself you know i'm not above any
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: of this but
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: basically the way of virtue that plato is recommending can't be can't be this kind
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: of dilettante thing where you just try out everything and in so the influence of
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: the social circumstances in the democracy is that he starts to hear the older people
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: who are kind of far down this degeneration from like aristocracy to democracy
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: to oligarchy to democracy you know they start
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: to praise like insolence is good education anarchy is freedom
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Wastefulness is magnificence.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Shamelessness is courage.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: So vices start to become smuggled in as virtues.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's a kind of concept creep, like the meaning of words starts to change.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: What you call courage isn't actually courage anymore.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so the democratic youth has trained really badly basically.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: The things they think are good are actually bad things for Plato.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: They've been taught anarchy is freedom.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: They've got shamelessness is courageous.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: you know
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: all the virtues are have become meaningless and that there's no way then for them
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: to kind of yeah to really cultivate these virtues and obviously
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: as things become more corrupt you're on a one way track to
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: the tyrant basically democracy turns into tyranny in this case
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: the freedom becomes decadent and
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: a single ruler seizes power wields absolute control just for the purposes of
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: the ruler's personal gain
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: it's a world of oppression of fear of manipulation violence of murder
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: and it's generally unstable leads to complete ruin societal collapse and
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: so yeah not very good but the cause of this is
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: the democracy rejecting all normativity and responsibility in the name
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: of freedom they refuse to have any master even the true the good and the beautiful
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: because of their oligarchic masters were bad masters they just refuse
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: to have masters at all but
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: you know that leads to immorality the psychological transformation of
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: the democratic youth into the tyrant is something we'll talk a lot more about
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: in book nine really it's pretty much the basic cycle of like the chaos set up
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: a charismatic leader as a champion he makes war first he's nice people love him but
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: then he becomes paranoid punishes own people and Plato says transforms from a man
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: into a wolf he kills more people until he has no friends or enemies basically
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And he has to fight anybody that's virtuous or gifted because they're a threat
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: to his authority, even though he's corrupt basically.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I give the example of Paul Pott in The Khmer Rouge where he killed
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: everybody with glasses in case they were smarter than him.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: yeah crazy so the tyrant is the opposite of a doctor Plato says a doctor draws off
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: the worst and leaves the best but the tyrant destroys the best and leaves only
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: the worst you know he's the kind of final conclusion of this degeneration so
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: in place of the great but inappropriate freedom people enjoyed
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: under democracy they put themselves into the harshest and most bitter slavery to
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: a slave which is what we're going to talk about in the next book because
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: the tyrant is a complete slave to their desires Plato describes the tyrant as like
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: a person living in a dream they're not even awake basically
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: so yeah slavery to a slave so here's kind of summary of how
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: the regimes work how they kind of fall apart you know the monarchy aristocracy based
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: on wisdom is the best this degenerates into honor and degenerates into greed
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: and degenerates into pure freedom you know
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: without normativity and then that turns into tyranny and you can think about this as
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: a psychological degeneration as well this is like the start where
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: the tripartite psyche is oriented properly and then how we start to fail reason
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: and how that leads to tyranny basically in the psyche thank you very much
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: for listening in the next book we're going to talk about the tyrant and why
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: the just life is 729 times better than the unjust life