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The Bunkhouse Podcast Live _ Grief_ Faith_ and Finding Your Mission After Loss with Jake Kelly · Military Broadcast Radio | MBR Talk

• 0:07
  There were times I was looking at myself in the mirror.
• 0:09
  Dude, why are you putting on khakis?
• 0:15
  Where Gunny Holly, who was blown up and killed, who had two
• 0:19
  children. I lived in a reality for about.
• 0:22
  I think 15 years that it should have been me.
• 0:29
  The source of strength has never been you, it has always been
• 0:32
  from somewhere else. It's just my belief that mine is
• 0:34
  from God and I. I choose to rely on God and I'm
• 0:38
  far from perfect. I screw up all the time, but my
• 0:41
  life is at peace. I have found a point past the
• 0:45
  storm where I am at peace. When things got really bad,
• 0:52
  which they will, we all are going to have times in our life
• 0:54
  where we just can't handle some things.
• 0:57
  To know that reaching out for help is an option.
• 0:59
  It's the same as going to the doctor.
• 1:01
  When you you can't get over the common cold and it's turned into
• 1:04
  something crazy, sinus infection, you got to go to a
• 1:08
  doctor and get medicine. It's the same with your mental
• 1:10
  health. Hey everybody, and welcome back
• 1:32
  to The Bunkhouse here on Military broadcast radio where
• 1:34
  we give veterans a voice. If you could please follow the
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  I guarantee you there'll be a story out there somebody needs
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  listening and they're going through any kind of hard times
• 1:56
  right now or feel like they may or you may know somebody that
• 1:58
  might need some help, Please know that there's somebody out
• 2:01
  there you can call 998988 with a mental health crisis line and
• 2:05
  for veterans press 1. That'll get you over to the
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  Veterans Mental Crisis helpline as well.
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  So again, I just know that you're not alone.
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  There's always somebody out there and and if need be, e-mail
• 2:18
  the e-mail the show. We'll get you in in touch with
• 2:20
  somebody if you need it as well. All right.
• 2:24
  And now, before we get started, I bring my guest on Word from
• 2:28
  MBO. The station where our veterans
• 2:31
  voices are heard. MBR talk.
• 2:34
  Hey, thanks for supporting our channel by watching and
• 2:36
  listening. Find us on the web at MB.
• 2:39
  Radio. Dot.
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  All right, now I have everybody tonight.
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  I have Jake Kelly. Jake, welcome to the show, man.
• 2:47
  Hey, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here, man.
• 2:50
  Oh yeah, so, so everybody listening, I had Jake on my long
• 2:55
  form pre record format. His episode should be launching
• 3:00
  either December or January. I'm, I'm at a point where I can
• 3:05
  almost launch 2 episodes a month of my pre record where I
• 3:09
  primarily only do 1. So I'll keep everybody posted on
• 3:12
  that as well. Could Jake real quick give
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  everybody a little bit about yourself, a little bit about
• 3:17
  your background and stuff? Yeah.
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  So armor officer by trade, I'm still active duty 15 1/2 years
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  commissioned out of Stephen F Austin in Texas.
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  Did my platoon leader time over in 3rd Calvary Regiment at Fort
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  Hood, Texas. Did my command time, my company
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  command time, and 57 CAB out of Fort Stewart with third ID.
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  And then after that took my family.
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  I did 3 deployments throughout that time to the Sinai, to the
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  regionally aligned forces over in Europe and Eastern Europe and
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  then over into Korea. After that did some time as a
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  observer controller out of Fort Irwin and that's when I decided
• 3:58
  to, for the health of my family, V tip over to functional area
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  where you do simulations work. So now I work for Transformation
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  Training Command within the Army, and I do experimentation
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  on modernization and future efforts for the Army, both
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  technology and formational design.
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  That's awesome man. You are the first active duty
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  service member that I've had on my show.
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  So again, again, thank you. Thank you for your continued
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  service to our country SO. Yes.
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  Sir, we'll get into a little bit more about about your book here
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  out here in a little while. But what, what were some things
• 4:39
  that kind of got you into branching out and, and really
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  wanted to kind of talk about like the mental health space for
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  yourself? Yeah.
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  So 2018, so it's my third operational deployment over to
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  Korea, but 2018 was a rough year.
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  My daughter was born in March. We deployed over in January.
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  I got to come home. And if you do the flight time
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  and how much time back then you got off for your kids nowadays,
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  So just get a lot more time off. But back then came out till I
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  got to see her about 2 1/2 days. And then I wasn't going to see
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  her till she was seven months old.
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  So that's hard for any father, but it's just something we deal
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  with. But that year in general, hey,
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  it was a rough year. I had a soldier in January, I'd
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  already flown over as the Advon and one of my soldiers back home
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  at Fort Stewart took his own life.
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  And of course, just like every time you hear this story, it was
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  the IT was the guy that was laughing all the time.
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  The guy was smiling all the time, the guy that was friends
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  with everyone. So it hit the whole troop.
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  Since I was Calvary at company's a troop hit the whole troop hard
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  and we we did a memorial service.
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  Of course they do the one for the family back here before
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  everyone had to fly out, but we did one over there as well just
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  around the Bradleys. And then and Fast forward to
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  September and one of my greatest mentors, Sergeant Major Timothy
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  Bullard, who was with the, he was in Afghanistan with the SFAB
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  and he had just left our squadron right before we
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  deployed and he had gone down there.
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  You know, I, I was at his wedding.
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  We have his wedding pictures with the, with our family
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  laughing in it and having drinks.
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  And he was probably one of the greatest NC OS I've ever met,
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  worked with. He was killed by a green on
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  blue. So that hit the whole squadron
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  hard. It hit our true part cause a lot
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  of my soldiers and myself had been there.
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  He was with us on the European raft.
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  We'd been together a long time. And then I come back from Korea.
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  I finally get to see my little girl, really get to see her.
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  I'm starting to PCs. The world is kind of getting
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  right again. And in November, I came out
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  command October and we were in the middle of the move.
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  I'm driving back from a gym that I was working out with because
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  we were up staying with my mother-in-law and I get a call
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  that one of my close friends who had been to we'd we'd been and
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  known each other since we were young lieutenants at Fort
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  Benning, where I'm at now. Drew Ross was killed also with a
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  different unit in Afghanistan. So man 3, three in one year.
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  It just that final one just kind of broke the camel's back and
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  you know, for the, and that was 2018.
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  So continued my life, continued pushing, did what soldiers do.
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  You know, we, we don't go to sick call.
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  You go, you just find a way to put a Band-Aid on, wrap the
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  wound and keep going. And I did that for a long time.
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  And it wasn't until 2023 or so that I started realizing I
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  probably need to do something about this instead of letting it
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  just keep going in my head. And so I, I turned back to
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  writing and that that's what led me down the path of writing a
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  book. And it what started off as me
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  working out my own issues turned into about helping my own mental
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  health, turned into something that I was hoping that is
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  hopefully helping other people as well.
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  Yeah. So, so you mentioned that you
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  turn back to writing. So what what did you write
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  before you join the army or or like what what kind of got you
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  into writing in the 1st place and they like originally?
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  And, you know, we'll probably get into it, but the book is is
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  a poetry book, which sounds weird for especially combat
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  arms, but poetry always was drawn to.
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  I wrote it in high school, got out of it just because of life,
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  you know, joining the Army, going to college, joining the
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  Army, raising a family. And you don't realize it, but
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  you've really run out of time that you have silence and you
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  have that quiet not just around you, but also in your mind.
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  And it took getting back to that silence, really to bring me back
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  to writing again. Yeah, I've definitely found some
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  peace and healing and writing myself.
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  I know we talked about it on my prerecord show a little bit too,
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  but during some of my probably my downward times in in a sense,
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  like I started journaling and it kind of started kind of kicked
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  off into a little bit of a little poetry writing as well.
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  So I have like probably four or five different poems that I've
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  written just based off of stuff that I started journaling about,
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  you know? Well, and you know, sorry.
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  Oh, go ahead. No, go ahead.
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  You know, and I, I was on another podcast that made me
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  think of this when I said on there, where's the AUSA one?
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  But they were asking me, you know, what's what's the linkage?
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  Where does poetry come in? And it doesn't automatically
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  scream out to you. But then when you think about
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  it, we are trained in that language from the time we go to
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  basic because we sing cadences and those cadences are sung as a
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  way to get you not thinking about the 12 mile run you're on.
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  And mile 10 is you're dying. And what is a cadence?
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  It has rhythm, it has rhyme. It's 2032 hundred people singing
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  in unison with none of us having a voice meant for the stage and
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  hence why we're in the military. So it's poetry, It's the same
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  thing. You can take any of my poems and
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  sit there and have 20 guys say it over and over again.
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  It's going to be a cadence. Yeah, no, you're right.
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  Because like I think a lot of us like whether like music or
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  anything, like a lot of at least veterans I know like we, we can
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  relate more probably to music and stuff like that.
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  Really do a lot of things outside of like, especially in
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  the civilian world, there's a lot more things like that we can
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  definitely relate to and it helps us.
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  Like I've known folks like these big buff dudes and like they go
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  to the gym, they put their headphones on just so they can
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  zone out, but you'll be very surprised at what they actually
• 11:06
  listening to when they work out a lot of times. 100% true.
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  Every single military movies that has, you know, death metal
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  music playing that that is not true.
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  At all. You're pumped enough already
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  about what you're about to go do.
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  You don't need the death metal. You listen to Call Me Maybe or
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  something out there. Yeah.
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  Oh yeah, exactly right. So leading up to the starting of
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  writing, like what were some of the things that probably your
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  wife probably noticed you starting to kind of withdraw
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  stuff like that? Like what was, what was that
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  like leading up for you? I mean, IA lot of it was the
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  same stuff I think a lot of guys go through is, you know, you for
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  one, you didn't want really associate with civilians because
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  they didn't understand they're not going to Why would they?
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  They're not going to ask about it because it's uncomfortable
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  for them and therefore they're not asking Makes you feel like
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  they don't sorry, they don't care.
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  And you know, COVID actually helped me a lot in this aspect.
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  But being able to put up, take off the uniform, going home,
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  because anyone listening that was in the Army and was in 3rd
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  ID knows what the modern Express is and the Modern Express is
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  real. You don't stop.
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  You are truly a soldier 24/7. And if you do that long enough,
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  you know, in three years, I was employed for two of them, I was
• 12:36
  with that unit. You stop remembering how to take
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  it off. You may take it off at home
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  physically, but you have not mentally taken it off.
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  So forgetting to step away from that, forgetting that my spouse
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  is allowed to have her own opinion, have her own thoughts,
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  and she's not someone I can order around, you know, and
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  forgetting that other people have emotions, which sometimes
• 13:00
  in the military forget because we, we bottle those up on
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  purpose. You know, Colonel General,
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  anyone can yell at you and it may hurt your feelings and
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  you'll go back to what you were doing.
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  And that's just our life. But out in the civilian world
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  where we do exist, that is, I mean, it is where most of our
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  time is spent, whether we believe it or not, it's not the
• 13:21
  same. And, and you can hurt people
• 13:25
  with comments, you can hurt people with words, you can hurt
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  people with a look on your face, 'cause my, I don't have a poker
• 13:30
  face. So I got to be careful with.
• 13:34
  But she saw all that. I, I, you know, never to the
• 13:39
  point of what some people have seen where it becomes anywhere
• 13:41
  near abusive or anything, but it was that in my my tones at
• 13:46
  times, my ability to quickly become agitated.
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  She saw that. Yeah.
• 13:53
  And and if you could tell us a little bit more like you, you
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  said COVID kind of helped you because it allowed you to take
• 14:01
  the uniform off finally for like a change.
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  And So what, what was that like when COVID happened?
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  Being home and not having to put the uniform on and, and actually
• 14:10
  being able to be a father and a husband more than just after
• 14:16
  work, right? What?
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  What was that like for you? You know, COVID, COVID was
• 14:19
  weird. I think everyone has a different
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  story when it comes to COVID, especially in the military.
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  But I was stationed at the time up at Carlisle Barracks, working
• 14:29
  up there in Pennsylvania. And if anyone doesn't know about
• 14:32
  the very small base, it's the war college for the army and to
• 14:36
  all the Lieutenant colonels who are going to make Colonel go to.
• 14:39
  But they also have a very small amount of captains at the time,
• 14:42
  which I what I was who are doing some of the more grunt work to
• 14:46
  make sure that the school runs. But COVID made us all pretty
• 14:51
  much 95% remote. So I'd, I'd owed my, my wife
• 14:58
  because she, you know, gave birth and spent the first seven
• 15:01
  months with a colicky baby and dad not around.
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  And then I rewarded her by taking her out to Fort Irwin,
• 15:07
  CA, which is in the middle of the desert.
• 15:10
  Like you can see Death Valley from, yeah, beautiful stars.
• 15:13
  That's about all that's out there.
• 15:15
  So when we went up to Carlisle, she was like, I'm picking the
• 15:18
  house. And she did.
• 15:19
  So she picked a 12 acre farmhouse in the 1800s an hour
• 15:24
  from the office, which thank God for COVID because I'd be
• 15:29
  bankrupt on gas money alone. But COVID happened.
• 15:32
  So I was working from home and you know, you put on you put on
• 15:35
  uniform top when you had to do teams calls.
• 15:38
  But besides that, you know, you PT was on your own.
• 15:41
  And I, I like PT so I kept up with that.
• 15:44
  But I would do my work and then I would go build a fence.
• 15:48
  I'd do my work and I'd go do repairs on the House.
• 15:51
  So I'd go play with my little girl.
• 15:53
  She was two to four. She was.
• 15:56
  We were there when she was two to three years old.
• 15:58
  So it's an amazing time to get to really.
• 16:02
  Yeah. Just be a dad.
• 16:06
  Brought me dad. No, that's good when you're when
• 16:11
  you're able to be home more. It's, it's definitely a change
• 16:15
  in pace and it's a hard dynamic to get used to, right.
• 16:21
  Like when I when I retired that that was a lot of the stuff that
• 16:29
  I that I always struggled with was because again, I worked 100%
• 16:32
  remote. Soon as it's like I retired, I
• 16:34
  worked 100% remote. So not yet, definitely not used
• 16:37
  to that ever in the, in the, in the military even like during
• 16:40
  COVID, we work remote for maybe a month at most, I think it was.
• 16:44
  And then went back, really started going back to the office
• 16:46
  kind of. But yeah, so it's it's a
• 16:50
  different dynamic when you're finally able to be home.
• 16:54
  Yeah, it is. And you know, there's there's
• 16:56
  actually a a chapter in the book and way I describe it is
• 17:00
  chapters one through 9, which they have a write up in the
• 17:03
  beginning of each chapter about what that chapter's about.
• 17:05
  Chapters one through 9 are what every soldier experiences.
• 17:09
  It's why you joined, it's deploying, it's leaving your
• 17:12
  loved ones behind, and it's about the good and the bad of
• 17:15
  the deployment. You know, 'cause there are good
• 17:16
  things. I mean, it's, it's boys weekend
• 17:18
  every single night. So there are good memories we
• 17:22
  have. And that's where a lot of our
• 17:23
  bonds come from in the military. But then after that, Chapter 10
• 17:29
  onward is what I, not every soldier and veteran gets to, but
• 17:33
  it's what I hope they do, talks about that healing.
• 17:35
  And one of the first parts of that is coming home and learning
• 17:38
  how to put the gun down. And the gun is a metaphor.
• 17:40
  You know, not everyone has deployed now everyone has combat
• 17:44
  deployed, but that we've learned to carry those weapons.
• 17:49
  We learn to fight, we learn to take orders, we learn even the
• 17:53
  Garrison environment and learning to put that down and
• 17:58
  pick up your child, something we struggle with sometimes.
• 18:04
  Yeah, you're right. Because we we've learned to
• 18:09
  always have the armor own right and, and, and be ready for the
• 18:14
  fight whenever it may come. And being in a position to where
• 18:18
  that no longer has to be your primary mode right is that's
• 18:25
  that's a hard, that's a hard thing to find and to do.
• 18:28
  And it is to let your guard down and take off the armor and be
• 18:32
  that soft, compassionate person that you're that you need to be
• 18:36
  for your family. So real quick, we'll take a
• 18:43
  break here in just a few minutes.
• 18:44
  But before we do going through all of this, what kind of
• 18:55
  started you on kind of walk us through real quick the process
• 19:01
  that you got from just starting to write journaling again to
• 19:04
  getting to where you got to publish?
• 19:08
  So I really did start writing. So I I got the idea, I got the
• 19:13
  inspiration, started going back to it because I was blessed to
• 19:17
  have a family gift us a trip up to a ranch in Colorado.
• 19:21
  It's a Christian guest ranch, all inclusive and amazing place.
• 19:24
  And they also do a lot of work with veterans and they do
• 19:28
  Healing Warrior weeks where veterans apply and you come for
• 19:31
  free. I mean, you have to buy a plane
• 19:32
  ticket, but that's it. But we got to go during the one
• 19:35
  of the regular weeks. And one of the things they do is
• 19:37
  cowboy poetry. And that's where I originally
• 19:39
  got the cowboy inspiration. But I connected with it because
• 19:44
  they weren't talking about me. They were talking about cowboy.
• 19:46
  I just happened to have tie like I happen to be able to relate to
• 19:49
  it. And that's why the book is
• 19:53
  written the way it is. But I started writing and my
• 19:57
  quiet moments where that was, I was TDY for work and I'm sitting
• 20:01
  in a hotel room alone. Or, you know, later on, a lot of
• 20:04
  the book was written, written from a deer stand where you're
• 20:07
  just sitting there waiting for something to come along and you
• 20:09
  have the only thing you have to do with your thoughts.
• 20:12
  And I was just writing. And it wasn't until about four
• 20:15
  or five, six poems in that my wife saw them, started reading
• 20:20
  them. And I think it opened up for.
• 20:25
  Aperture to what I was working through, but also she said, you
• 20:29
  know this, you should make a book.
• 20:31
  This could help other people. So she was the one that pushed
• 20:34
  me to this. And then, and then I started
• 20:38
  focusing on, I locate a publisher, small time publisher
• 20:41
  that really they've, they actually published mainly
• 20:44
  Homestead books, but I had a link in because I knew I'm
• 20:47
  really good friends with the husband of one of the person who
• 20:50
  helped run it. And I said, hey, look, I don't,
• 20:54
  I'm not looking for y'all to publish because you probably
• 20:56
  will say no because it doesn't fit y'all area.
• 20:58
  But what do you think about it? And after she read it, her first
• 21:01
  response before reading it was, oh, yeah, this, this definitely
• 21:05
  isn't in our wheelhouse. But after reading, she said we
• 21:07
  can publish this. And so that's how it got out
• 21:09
  there. Yeah.
• 21:11
  Oh, that's awesome, man. All right, we are going to take
• 21:14
  a quick break, about a 3 minute break.
• 21:15
  When we come back, we're going to talk more about the actual
• 21:18
  the details of the book and and and got really get dig into to
• 21:21
  what that is and we'll be right back.
• 24:24
  Welcome back, everybody. And so before the break, Jake
• 24:26
  and I were talking about really what kind of got him into, I
• 24:32
  guess a mind space or mindset to where he really wanted to start
• 24:35
  writing, started kind of journaling and started writing
• 24:38
  and got to where he was, where he really got to where he
• 24:40
  published his own book. So real quick, Jake, Jake, if
• 24:44
  you could tell us a little bit about your book.
• 24:47
  Yeah, So it's, it's called the Spurs of Service.
• 24:51
  The book is I I describe it as a memoir of the soldier.
• 24:55
  You know, of course I'm Army, so I say soldier.
• 24:57
  But anyone that served in the military, it it really walks
• 25:01
  through our entire life. So, you know, someone can pick
• 25:03
  up this book who just joined or their family members can pick it
• 25:06
  up who someone just joined and they can see, you know, what
• 25:09
  what lies ahead or someone can pick it up who is now out and
• 25:14
  they can look back and reflect on their own experiences.
• 25:19
  But the book walks all the way through, you know, from the time
• 25:23
  we first joined, you know, it's written from a man's
• 25:26
  perspective. So, you know, joining in what
• 25:28
  it's like to be a man in the in the world today.
• 25:31
  And I describe men, you know, as protectors and then goes into,
• 25:38
  you know, that first deployment when you first leave, when you
• 25:42
  first, for, for a lot of these kids, you know, it's the first
• 25:45
  time leaving the US and going overseas, going somewhere,
• 25:50
  leaving behind your loved ones. You know, those chapters
• 25:52
  dedicated to the, the spouses we leave behind and the children we
• 25:56
  leave behind. And not just writing about how,
• 26:02
  what from the soldier perspective of, you know,
• 26:04
  kissing that little girl, 'cause I once again, I have a daughter,
• 26:07
  kissing her on the forehead and leaving also to the, to the
• 26:11
  spouse that's back home, still holding that child when they
• 26:13
  watch you walk out the door. And then, and then it really
• 26:17
  gets into the coming home, you know, and, and sometimes that is
• 26:22
  the hardest part is coming home back to a world that in our mind
• 26:25
  should have stopped while we were gone.
• 26:27
  It shouldn't have kept moving. We've been over there and
• 26:30
  whatever over there is, and they've all and the world just
• 26:34
  had to keep going and learning to put down the rifle, learning
• 26:38
  to take off the uniform, learning to be with your family
• 26:42
  again, leave your boots at the door.
• 26:45
  And then as it continues on, because I am a Christian, I am a
• 26:49
  man of faith, finding that healing.
• 26:52
  And the book is written to finding that healing both in the
• 26:55
  wilderness but also in God and what he can bring to you and how
• 27:01
  he can take those wounds and close them up.
• 27:06
  Oh that's awesome, man. So where did the title Spurs of
• 27:12
  service come from? So several points there.
• 27:15
  So you know, I'm a Calvary officer through and through.
• 27:18
  So we do wear spurs for anyone that served in the cab, you
• 27:24
  know, we earn them. It's gold.
• 27:26
  Spurs are earned for deploying with a unit, A caliber unit and
• 27:29
  silver earned by a trial, if you will, that is hosted back at the
• 27:33
  home station or it can be done overseas as well.
• 27:35
  But the trial is usually three to five days long of just
• 27:40
  getting the heck beat out of you.
• 27:42
  And there's some mental tests, but a lot of it's physical
• 27:45
  endurance. And you earn those spurs.
• 27:48
  And those spurs are a point of pride.
• 27:51
  You know, we, we put them on and man, anyone that's not calving,
• 27:54
  the army hates seeing guys wearing spurs because there's an
• 27:56
  arrogance that comes with them. There's a pride that comes with
• 27:59
  just like in the infantry with the different badges they have.
• 28:03
  So, so it is a reminder of the pain you went through for them,
• 28:07
  but it's also pride in there. And, and you know, the same
• 28:11
  thing goes with the Cowboys. The Cowboys wore the spurs and
• 28:14
  they were meant for doing hard work and they were worn with
• 28:16
  pride. But those spurs automatically
• 28:21
  carry with them, like I said, a reminder of the pain you went
• 28:25
  through, a reminder of the brotherhood.
• 28:27
  And if you see someone else wearing them, you're
• 28:28
  automatically know that they what they went through was
• 28:31
  similar to your own. So you have a connection, but it
• 28:35
  the the book goes through the pain, but doesn't make it a
• 28:40
  we're a victim. It it's it's pride in what you
• 28:43
  see the written throughout. You're never going to find a
• 28:45
  veteran on the streets that isn't proud of what they did.
• 28:48
  I mean, you may find some. I'm not going to speak for all
• 28:50
  of them, but no matter what we went through or still going
• 28:54
  through, we're proud of our service.
• 28:56
  You know, I mean, you'll never, I mean, you're a Marine, so
• 28:58
  you're never going to meet a Marine that, oh, you were a
• 29:00
  Marine. No, I'm, I'm always a Marine.
• 29:02
  You know, you're not going to meet that.
• 29:04
  Marines are the most prideful out there.
• 29:09
  Yeah. But you're not going to find
• 29:11
  many people that look back and say, Oh, well, you know, it was
• 29:15
  OK. No, they may have hated it the
• 29:17
  whole time in, and they may have complained the entire time in,
• 29:20
  But man, when it comes time to tell someone else outside the
• 29:23
  military about it, that chest comes out.
• 29:25
  Those shoulders roll back, 'cause we're proud of what we
• 29:28
  did and the brotherhood that was formed in those bonds.
• 29:33
  Yeah, no, you're absolutely right.
• 29:35
  It's it's it's like those spurs for the for the Calvary.
• 29:39
  I think it, it's the same way that that Marines, we feel for
• 29:44
  the eagle lobe and anchor like we earned the eagle lobe and
• 29:46
  anchor. It's, it's not just given to us.
• 29:48
  It's like when I went through recruit training, we didn't get
• 29:52
  to, we didn't get our eagle lobe and anchor until we were done
• 29:54
  with the Crucible, which is like the culminating event right
• 29:56
  before graduation, right. And so, and that's the moment
• 30:00
  that you they technically say that you're now a Marine is when
• 30:03
  they when they give you your, your eagle open anchor.
• 30:06
  So yeah, I mean it's the same. I can see that being a lot of
• 30:09
  the same with when it comes to dispersed for you guys.
• 30:13
  Right. And you saw people not earn it.
• 30:15
  I mean, if everyone got it when it means something, but when you
• 30:18
  see people that don't make it and you go, I'm still here.
• 30:21
  And this guy on my left and right, they're still here that
• 30:24
  that builds that brotherhood and makes those artifacts, if you
• 30:28
  will, so valuable to us. Yeah.
• 30:31
  And I think that like, like you said, like that, the ones to
• 30:35
  your left and the ones to your right while we're in service, it
• 30:39
  we, we, we learn and we just train to fight as a team.
• 30:43
  And everything that we do, we don't look at any battles.
• 30:46
  Like we try not to go into any battle solo.
• 30:49
  We always try to, we try to attack everything as a team,
• 30:52
  regardless if it's physical kinetic combat or if it's a, a
• 30:56
  problem that we're trying to, to determine the best solution for,
• 30:59
  right? We always have a team.
• 31:01
  And I know one thing that we've talked about in the past is how
• 31:05
  for some reason, we're not taught to fight mental health in
• 31:08
  that same fashion, right? And So what, what would you say
• 31:13
  to people out there right now listening about ensuring they
• 31:16
  build that the right team? Because you can also build the
• 31:19
  wrong team around you when you when you like, when it comes to
• 31:22
  mental health. But what?
• 31:23
  What? What would you tell somebody out
• 31:25
  there listening right now about building that team around them?
• 31:27
  Yeah. Well, and you know, First off,
• 31:28
  like you said, you can build the wrong team.
• 31:30
  And sometimes that team is very popular in the military culture
• 31:35
  because we do like to drink and that team may be at the bar and
• 31:39
  it's not anything bad to go have a beer or two.
• 31:41
  But sometimes that team can if you get in the wrong ones and go
• 31:44
  down a hole. But we, we struggle to find
• 31:47
  teams because mental health is personal.
• 31:52
  It's kind of like, you know what, no one wants to go to sick
• 31:55
  call because if you go to sick call, your first sergeant's
• 31:57
  going to yell at you since sergeant's going to tell you,
• 31:59
  you know, you're worthless or whatever.
• 32:01
  But we, we learn to hide these things.
• 32:04
  But it is, I think I said it on the podcast, and I don't mean
• 32:09
  this as an insult, but stop being stupid guys.
• 32:12
  You know, we, we are trained, as you said, battle buddy rushes.
• 32:16
  The smallest element you operate is with a battle buddy.
• 32:19
  You would never charge a bunker by yourself.
• 32:22
  Yet here we go charging into probably the worst battlefield
• 32:25
  you could ever go into because it's in your mind.
• 32:27
  You can't turn it off. I don't know.
• 32:31
  I need to do this alone. I don't want to burden anyone.
• 32:34
  Take, take whatever you're saying to yourself, whatever it
• 32:37
  is, and now put yourself back in training and combat, wherever it
• 32:42
  is. Put yourself back there.
• 32:43
  Turn to your battle buddy and say and say those exact same
• 32:47
  words about the mission you're about to go on and picture their
• 32:49
  face. I don't offer any, you know,
• 32:55
  psychological breakthrough for anyone.
• 32:57
  All I can offer is common sense. And that's why I take across and
• 33:00
  I know and I, once again, nothing I say is meant to insult
• 33:02
  anyone that's struggling with this, but it it's true.
• 33:06
  Get out of your own head and get out there and find that battle.
• 33:10
  And you know, as you mentioned in the very beginning, OK, some
• 33:13
  people out there will say, well, man, I don't have anyone.
• 33:15
  Or maybe I, you know, some of us went down some dark Rd.
• 33:18
  Maybe you burned every bridge with every relative and every
• 33:21
  battle you ever had and you like look around you and you're
• 33:24
  standing on an island and every bridge around you is burned.
• 33:28
  That's not the case. You know, you, you mentioned
• 33:30
  beginning reach out. Maybe you don't like the VA.
• 33:33
  I know the VA has a really bad rap, but I'll tell you they
• 33:37
  they're making strides, but they are bureaucracy, but they're
• 33:41
  making strides to really get after this.
• 33:44
  But if you don't want reach out to them, we don't reach out to
• 33:46
  someone with PhD on their name because that as well can be
• 33:50
  scary. Or hey, you know the one thing
• 33:52
  we talked on the podcast, Yeah, they won't understand.
• 33:56
  OK, reach out to one of us that will and find me on Facebook,
• 34:00
  find me on LinkedIn, find any of us.
• 34:03
  I know I'm not going to put my phone number out here 'cause I
• 34:05
  already get enough junk text. But, you know, reach out and I
• 34:09
  don't have to know you if I know you're a soldier or you're in
• 34:11
  military. I know we have a common
• 34:13
  relationship and we'll talk anytime of day or night, but the
• 34:17
  amount of leaders out there that would do that for you.
• 34:21
  I, I can't speak for every leader, but I guarantee the
• 34:24
  majority of that. I know if they weren't, if they
• 34:27
  were in charge of you commanded you 10 years ago and you found
• 34:30
  them on Facebook or so where you had their cell phone them and
• 34:33
  you called them tomorrow and said this is special.
• 34:36
  So and so maybe, maybe not. They won't remember you, but if
• 34:38
  you tell them, hey, I was in 57 cab, Sir, I, I'm really
• 34:42
  struggling. They're going to put down
• 34:44
  whatever they're doing. They're going to talk to you
• 34:46
  because we do care. We absolutely care.
• 34:51
  Yeah, you're, you're absolutely right.
• 34:52
  And that's definitely one thing that I've, I've found in the
• 34:56
  network that I've started building and and gotten up been
• 34:59
  been able have the pleasure of being a part of since
• 35:02
  relaunching my podcast back in April.
• 35:05
  Every veteran that I talked to that does this exact same thing.
• 35:08
  Even if they don't talk about mental health directly or that's
• 35:11
  not what they primarily talk about on their shows, that's one
• 35:14
  message they always give. If somebody's out there
• 35:16
  struggling, just shoot, e-mail the show.
• 35:20
  We, you may not, you may not be able to help you directly, but I
• 35:24
  guarantee you we'll get you in touch with somebody that can
• 35:27
  help, right? That's the big thing is, is
• 35:29
  that's the big thing that I, I try to make sure to get across
• 35:32
  is that, that, that no one's out there alone.
• 35:34
  Even if you feel like you're alone, I promise you there's
• 35:36
  somebody out there that's that's willing and wants to help and.
• 35:43
  You know, I see it a lot where people will say, you know, no
• 35:46
  one understands, no one knows what I went through.
• 35:49
  You know, we're a massive military.
• 35:51
  Someone went through. You did not deploy as your lone
• 35:55
  soldier out there like in the movies.
• 35:58
  You were with a company or with a platoon or with a battalion.
• 36:01
  Someone went through that exact moment with you and they're
• 36:05
  there to talk to you about it. And the book has a poem and
• 36:11
  dedicated and written about the suicide about my 1 soldier.
• 36:17
  It's called drowning in the river and I don't mention his
• 36:20
  name. I respect for his family but I
• 36:22
  have no shame towards him. But of losing 2 men I was very
• 36:27
  close to, he is the one I still struggle with today because he
• 36:32
  was my responsibility. And that's I don't say that to
• 36:36
  make this about me. I say it to once again reiterate
• 36:38
  my leadership point. No leader.
• 36:40
  And not, not for our OER or officer evaluation report, not
• 36:43
  for a write up. We don't want to lose y'all
• 36:46
  because you're our responsibility whether you're
• 36:49
  still in our unit or you. You were in our unit a decade
• 36:53
  ago. And I don't say that as you're a
• 36:55
  bird. And I say that as we bonded with
• 36:57
  y'all, whether you realized it or not.
• 37:00
  More than we could ever say or speak or put in the words.
• 37:07
  And losing y'all, especially to something like suicide, just, it
• 37:14
  doesn't have to happen. We can fight this battle
• 37:17
  together and we'll go into the hell of the fires of hell
• 37:19
  together with you. That's fine, whatever you need.
• 37:22
  But I just hate how many people go after it alone when once
• 37:26
  again, there's a battle buddy out there, there's a squad out
• 37:29
  there, you know, there's a platoon waiting for you.
• 37:34
  Yeah, no, there, there absolutely is.
• 37:35
  And, and, and and you're right, doesn't matter if we served in
• 37:42
  the same unit 5 years ago or 15 years ago.
• 37:46
  It's like if you, if somebody called me today, like somebody I
• 37:52
  served with, they called me today, I would answer the phone
• 37:55
  immediately, right? Like that's just how it is.
• 37:58
  I mean, shoot, I even ever so often I'll text, I'll text ever
• 38:02
  like a few handful of people ever so often, like, hey, man,
• 38:05
  just checking in on you start thinking about you today and see
• 38:07
  how you doing. You know, just that.
• 38:10
  And just that little bit of of acknowledgement too can go a
• 38:13
  long ways for somebody as well. And actually, I want to, I want
• 38:18
  to, I want to challenge everybody listening that if, if,
• 38:22
  if you have 5, not even 5 minutes, if you have time to
• 38:26
  scroll Facebook on your phone, you have time to do this.
• 38:30
  Just check on somebody, check on one person, even if it's just
• 38:33
  one person, you know, just go check on him, say just shoot him
• 38:35
  a little quick text or you have to text.
• 38:37
  You can just do a voice, voice text now, like a voicemail mode
• 38:40
  to him now, you know, say, hey, just thinking about you wanted
• 38:42
  to check in on you see how you're doing.
• 38:43
  Hit me up when you get a chance, right?
• 38:45
  Really that simple. You know, I'd like to challenge
• 38:49
  everybody to do that at some point in it in the next week, I
• 38:52
  guarantee you find. That that.
• 38:54
  Little action meant more to that person than a then most have.
• 39:01
  Most things have to them in a while.
• 39:03
  Can almost guarantee it. Yeah, especially.
• 39:06
  For them, once again, you've said I'm still in, but I've, you
• 39:10
  know, 15 years in, I have a lot of people behind me that have a
• 39:14
  lot of brothers that got out over time, some because they
• 39:19
  chose to and some because they had to.
• 39:23
  And while you may still be doing fine, I know in my case I'm
• 39:27
  doing fine 'cause I'm still in, I still have this purpose, this,
• 39:30
  this role to serve. Some of them don't.
• 39:34
  So you may be fine, but you know, reach out to the ones that
• 39:37
  especially the ones that were forced out.
• 39:40
  Some of them struggle a lot because they didn't get to
• 39:42
  finish up their time as they as they wanted to.
• 39:45
  And it can affect them 'cause they may think in their mind
• 39:47
  wrongfully. So I didn't, I didn't get out
• 39:50
  with honor because I was for that's not the case.
• 39:52
  You served whether you served six months or you served 20
• 39:57
  years. You served, you picked up, wrote
• 39:59
  a check and. Your check wasn't.
• 40:02
  Cashed same as mine. Not cashed, but doesn't.
• 40:06
  Make your service any less. Honorable, Yeah.
• 40:09
  No, I agree and. Real quick, before I dig in on
• 40:12
  that one, I'm going, I'm going to start the challenge for
• 40:14
  everybody right here. Oh.
• 40:17
  Says tap and hold. Hold on.
• 40:19
  Hey brother, just sitting here thinking about you, man.
• 40:21
  Haven't talked to you in a little bit.
• 40:22
  I just want to make sure you're doing OK.
• 40:24
  He'll be back when you can talk to you later.
• 40:25
  Bye there. It is just sent it to one of my.
• 40:28
  Buddies I served with and deployed with Afghanistan, so I
• 40:31
  challenge everybody to do that for at least one person.
• 40:34
  He'll be amazed at the reaction you get back from them,
• 40:37
  guaranteed. Man, I thought you started that
• 40:39
  challenge and. That thing kicked off, It'd be
• 40:41
  amazing to see the results of it because yeah, there's I, I don't
• 40:45
  even know. The numbers are not going to
• 40:46
  make them up. But there's 3 million people in
• 40:48
  the military. You spread that out.
• 40:50
  Those 2 million texts, another 2 million.
• 40:51
  I mean, you could affect some brothers and sisters out there
• 40:54
  that maybe sitting there right now staring at a bottle or
• 40:57
  staring at whatever. And they may write you back and
• 41:01
  y'all may end up going down a rabbit hole and you find out
• 41:03
  that they gave their life to Christ and they're doing
• 41:06
  amazing. And that's great because then
• 41:07
  they're sharpening you, you know, but it's, it's a good way
• 41:11
  to check in on somebody, like I said.
• 41:14
  Took what, 3, four seconds of my time, right?
• 41:17
  And that's the thing. It's if you got time to scroll
• 41:20
  on Facebook, you got time to check in on somebody,
• 41:22
  guaranteed. Yeah.
• 41:25
  So back to the back to what you? Were saying about like the ones
• 41:28
  that have to get out early and I'm I'm I'm actually an example
• 41:32
  of that because like I had, I had to retire at 16 years
• 41:36
  because of a medical board. I was found unfit for continued
• 41:39
  service because of some medical ailments I had going on some
• 41:42
  issues with my lower back, nerve issues, muscle issues, sleep
• 41:46
  disorders, you name it. I pretty much had it documented
• 41:50
  in in my medical records and had a.
• 41:55
  Surgery on my. Elbow completed in 2019 and I
• 41:59
  just for whatever reason, my body wasn't recovering like it
• 42:02
  needed to to get back to full duty and all of those other
• 42:05
  things just kind of exacerbated at one time.
• 42:09
  And I will say that was probably one of the biggest things for me
• 42:12
  during my transition was like, did I feel like I was ready to
• 42:16
  get out? Yes and no.
• 42:17
  Like I knew my body needed, it was time to get out.
• 42:21
  But like mentally for me, I definitely felt like I had more
• 42:24
  to give to the Marine Corps then then what I'd given to up to
• 42:28
  that point of 16 years. Cause 'cause I could still do my
• 42:32
  job. I did IT and, and, and security
• 42:34
  stuff. And like I could still sit
• 42:36
  behind a computer. I could still do the technical
• 42:38
  side of my job is I couldn't do the Marine Corps stuff anymore.
• 42:41
  I couldn't go to the rifle range, I couldn't deploy.
• 42:44
  I couldn't do like those things that made U.S.
• 42:46
  Marines. And so the Marine Corps is like,
• 42:48
  well, sorry for you. It's time to go then.
• 42:53
  So yeah, I mean, I it, that definitely hit me hard.
• 42:58
  And it didn't really start hitting me that hard until about
• 43:02
  6:00 or seven months post my retirement.
• 43:04
  That's, that's when it really started hitting me.
• 43:06
  Was about six or seven months after I was super excited when I
• 43:10
  retired. I had a retirement ceremony and
• 43:13
  stuff like that. But then six or seven months
• 43:15
  down the road, it was like, OK, what do I do now?
• 43:18
  Right. Like now what do I do?
• 43:21
  I had a, had a remote job and it was OK.
• 43:24
  It wasn't great. I was doing my podcast, but
• 43:28
  I've, I started feeling overwhelmed with it a lot, you
• 43:31
  know, and so like, I didn't feel like I was making any traction
• 43:33
  with it. I didn't know if I was really
• 43:34
  getting through to anybody. And so like it really started
• 43:39
  all of that started kind of compounding and, and, and kind
• 43:42
  of settling and like sinking me down and not in a good way
• 43:45
  either. So I think.
• 43:50
  That's probably one of the biggest.
• 43:51
  Things is, you know, finding the mission after you take the
• 43:57
  uniform off, right, Because you said, like you said, when you're
• 44:00
  during COVID, that allowed you to take the uniform off and know
• 44:03
  what that was like. And then eventually started
• 44:08
  turning into writing and stuff. And, and, and what I correct me
• 44:12
  if I'm wrong here, but what I've noticed, like you've already
• 44:14
  found your mission outside the uniform and that's giving back
• 44:18
  to the community and, and really talking about mental health and
• 44:21
  the importance of talking about mental health and breaking that
• 44:24
  stigma, you know, and it's talk. If you could tell me a little.
• 44:29
  About that like how that how that has helped you and your own
• 44:32
  healing just kind of finding that mission.
• 44:34
  Yeah. So you know first.
• 44:36
  I'll jump back on what you said about, you know, getting out
• 44:39
  before you're ready. And I, I literally just saw
• 44:42
  this. So, you know, forgive me if it
• 44:45
  insults anyone. We talk about survivor guilt all
• 44:48
  the time. You know, survivor's guilt's a
• 44:49
  big thing in the community that leads to a lot of mental health
• 44:52
  issues. But we.
• 44:54
  All we don't talk. Much about service guilt and you
• 44:58
  know that may that can be from you got out before you wanted
• 45:01
  to. So I didn't do the time I wanted
• 45:02
  to. I could've given my country more
• 45:04
  their service guilt on I didn't deploy on those combat
• 45:07
  operations that took my friends lives and I was over for my
• 45:13
  case. You know, I was over in Korea
• 45:14
  like great over over up on a border that just so you know,
• 45:19
  it's been cold for a long time. But I actually was having, you
• 45:24
  know, a conversation on a different podcast and it was a
• 45:27
  really respected senior NCO in the military who said this to me
• 45:31
  'cause we were talking to kind of deeper on this.
• 45:32
  He said you wrote a check just like everyone else.
• 45:35
  The government life cashes some checks and some checks they
• 45:40
  don't. Doesn't mean you didn't write
• 45:41
  it. We all walked in, we all raised
• 45:43
  our right hand and we all set an oath and we were willing to go
• 45:46
  through with that oath if need be.
• 45:48
  Because you didn't, because you weren't called to, doesn't make
• 45:52
  your service any less valuable. It doesn't make it any less
• 45:55
  honorable. Great friend of mine, we were
• 46:01
  together all the way up until Majors and he end up having some
• 46:05
  medical issues, had a lump in his chest.
• 46:07
  They took it out. He had a stroke.
• 46:08
  This guy could have been in general easily.
• 46:11
  And he's out now. It doesn't make his service any
• 46:15
  less valuable. And I know he struggles with
• 46:16
  that because he he was a soldier, soldier.
• 46:21
  And sorry that that's off on a tangent, but finding a purpose
• 46:25
  when you get out and and I know you know, some listen might be
• 46:28
  like, well, you're not out, so how can you speak on this?
• 46:30
  Yeah, but I get out every single day when I go home.
• 46:33
  And I found my mission. So you said so I do care about
• 46:36
  mental health, but my first and foremost mission above all life
• 46:39
  is to be a good husband, a good father.
• 46:41
  You know, I'd have a little girl who has some medical issues and
• 46:44
  we almost lost her. She almost died multiple times.
• 46:48
  And it was a wake up call that my first mission, my priority
• 46:54
  mission above all else, is being at home and being the father she
• 46:57
  deserves and being the husband my wife deserves.
• 47:01
  Yeah, I'm not perfect at that at all.
• 47:03
  I I fail every single day. But I got to keep trying.
• 47:06
  But finding a place out there in the world, you know, maybe
• 47:10
  someone says I don't have family or someone says I got that down
• 47:13
  right. I need to, I still need
• 47:14
  something else. The, the amount of veteran
• 47:19
  organizations out there that are looking to help.
• 47:22
  And I honestly think a lot of veteran organizations we fail at
• 47:26
  because we offer a one week, we offer a 2 day retreat, a one
• 47:30
  week retreat. Well that that's great.
• 47:32
  You're in, you know, you're up in the clouds.
• 47:35
  So that one week you're back with veterans, you're back
• 47:37
  talking old telling war stories around a campfire, wherever you
• 47:40
  may be going. And then you go back to the
• 47:42
  regular world and you just miss it again.
• 47:45
  What? What I think a lot of healing.
• 47:47
  Comes from similar to your podcast, similar to me being on
• 47:49
  podcast is I'm getting to talk, I'm getting to talk, tell it
• 47:53
  repeatedly. I'm every single one of these is
• 47:54
  therapy for me 'cause I'm talking to people and I'm
• 47:56
  getting a message out. So find finding that purpose,
• 48:00
  whether it's you're a Christian that's in the church, whether
• 48:03
  you're an outdoorsman and it's out with some veterans retreat
• 48:07
  that takes veterans hunting wounded veterans or something
• 48:09
  you know or it. Could be in the office.
• 48:13
  But walk in there and say I'm going to give this place the
• 48:15
  best I can because that's because this is what I'm called
• 48:18
  to be. But we, we struggle with finding
• 48:22
  a calling because there's not much higher, especially if
• 48:25
  you're not Christian. There's not much higher than
• 48:26
  serving your country, you know, above that is serving God.
• 48:31
  Yeah, but. A step.
• 48:33
  I put in between that is, is family and I think a lot of us,
• 48:38
  we come home and we struggle to be that person because the house
• 48:43
  can be silent and we don't like silence.
• 48:45
  The house can be and I don't say this.
• 48:51
  Wrongly, the house can be. Boring and what we're used to
• 48:54
  going into and it we're not used to that silence.
• 48:59
  We're not used to that crazy. So sometimes we we strive to
• 49:03
  make it exist where it doesn't need to be.
• 49:07
  Yeah, but. We we struggle to find.
• 49:10
  That purpose, and I'll tell you the best, some of the best
• 49:13
  coping and the best dealing and the best healing veterans I know
• 49:15
  out there are the ones who are heavily involved in those
• 49:18
  programs, helping their brothers and sisters, 'cause that's no
• 49:22
  matter who it is, that's, that's our mission.
• 49:24
  Because we've been that way since the day you got into basic
• 49:26
  training year, that one guy next to you that could not lift his
• 49:29
  rifle, so you had to help him. And the drill Sergeant drilled
• 49:32
  into if you didn't help him, you're going to be punished as
• 49:34
  well. We learned to help each other
• 49:37
  and to lift each other up. No, you're absolutely right.
• 49:40
  Like. Doing doing my shows like this
• 49:44
  is my own type of therapy. Like for myself, like yeah it I,
• 49:49
  I love being able to share stories and have veterans come
• 49:51
  on in, in service members come on share stories and and and
• 49:54
  talk about hope and healing and stuff like that.
• 49:57
  But it's, you're right though, like just talking about it
• 50:00
  'cause it gives me the ability also to get into conversation
• 50:03
  and, and share some of my stories and my back stories and
• 50:07
  some of the stuff that I've been through, you know, and again,
• 50:09
  like just this in itself is a form of therapy for me too. 100%
• 50:14
  is you know. All right, we're going to take
• 50:17
  one more. Quick break.
• 50:19
  And then when we come back, we're going ahead and close it
• 50:21
  out with what we really how we now look at what strength versus
• 50:27
  weakness is. That's how we're going to close
• 50:28
  out tonight's shows. But this next break it is a
• 50:32
  quick segment of one of my partners.
• 50:36
  I've, I've, I've started working with Cave Arts Challenge America
• 50:40
  Veterans Art Society. Amazing group out there.
• 50:45
  Please go out there and check them out.
• 52:57
  O all right. Welcome back everybody.
• 53:02
  So the close out tonight's show, one thing that I always try to
• 53:07
  talk about and I think it's extremely important is what we
• 53:12
  think of strength versus weakness now from what it was
• 53:16
  when we're in uniform. I know from my experiences in
• 53:21
  the Marine Corps in uniform strength was how fast can you
• 53:26
  run, how many pull ups can you do, how many crunches can you
• 53:28
  do, how fast can you do the obstacle course, like those
• 53:32
  types of things, right? And since retiring, I've quickly
• 53:38
  come to realize. That's all good and well.
• 53:43
  But your mental strength has to be up there at the same priority
• 53:47
  as your physical strength does, right?
• 53:50
  And and and, and Jake, I know that's one big thing that you
• 53:53
  harp on a lot about is, is, is mental strength.
• 53:57
  If you could just talk us, talk us through that a little bit.
• 53:59
  Yeah. So first.
• 54:00
  Example, you know, example analogy I'll give is, you know,
• 54:04
  we talk hiding from your mental health struggles is not
• 54:08
  strength. And that's what a lot of us do.
• 54:09
  We compartmentalize it. We throw it off to the side, we
• 54:12
  put it in the back, we go lift some more weights, we go drink a
• 54:14
  beer or whatever it is. But think about it this way.
• 54:20
  When you were in the military. You owned the night.
• 54:23
  You put on your night vision devices, you picked up your
• 54:25
  weapon and we went out into those woods.
• 54:28
  We went out into that town and we owned the night.
• 54:30
  We weren't scared of anything. What would you have?
• 54:33
  Said to that soldier. If he had said no, I'm scared he
• 54:35
  threw his blanket over his head or what?
• 54:37
  Just like a child does when there's a monster in the closet.
• 54:41
  That's what you're doing with mental health when you're.
• 54:42
  Compartmentalizing it. You're saying, I don't want to
• 54:44
  look at this, I don't want to face this.
• 54:46
  And then somehow we flipped the script and said that's strength.
• 54:49
  That is strength by tucking it away because you're not willing
• 54:52
  to face it when every other aspect of your life, if you
• 54:56
  threw it away, if you put the blanket over your head, that'd
• 54:59
  be seen as fear, That'd be seen as weakness.
• 55:01
  But for some reason, we flipped the script on that and we say it
• 55:04
  the other way around. So facing your mental health
• 55:07
  challenges, talking to someone about it, that is the strength
• 55:11
  that you really need. And that is a sign of your
• 55:13
  strength is going to that once again, as we talked earlier,
• 55:15
  going to that counselor. And if you don't want to do
• 55:17
  that, go into that battle buddy. I despite the battles we have in
• 55:23
  our own mind, I would be amazed to ever hear a story where you
• 55:28
  went to a battle buddy and said, man, I'm struggling and This is
• 55:31
  why. And they looked at you and
• 55:32
  called you, you know, pick a word that they use in the
• 55:35
  military or said you're weak or anything because now they're
• 55:38
  probably going to listen. They're probably going to be
• 55:40
  late. They're probably going to say,
• 55:41
  I'm going through the same thing now.
• 55:44
  Even when you, when you first had me on here or asked if I
• 55:48
  wanted to be on the live side, you said, you know, you're still
• 55:50
  in the military. Are you willing to talk about
• 55:52
  this stuff? Yeah.
• 55:53
  Military's not going to come after me for talking about
• 55:55
  mental health because every single one of us is struggling
• 55:57
  with it in some way or another. Every single man out there in
• 56:00
  today's world is struggling with it one way or another, whether
• 56:02
  they're in the military or not. But we drill this into us, you
• 56:07
  know, not, and this isn't a hit on the military.
• 56:09
  It's just the way we operate. You know, if you go to sick
• 56:14
  call, you're a little weak, but that's just 'cause, you know,
• 56:17
  you sprained your ankle, whatever.
• 56:18
  But you, you keep going, you wrap up that arm, you wrap up
• 56:21
  that wound and you get out there and keep going, 'cause you want
• 56:24
  to be with the men. So we've trained this into us to
• 56:27
  not show weakness. But that is that's because the
• 56:30
  military has a mission. Once you get out, it's.
• 56:33
  OK to get that wound looked. At it's OK to take time to put
• 56:37
  more than just a Band-Aid on and do actually go get the help you
• 56:40
  need. No one's going to kick you out
• 56:42
  of the unit. No one's going to, you know,
• 56:45
  tell you can't deploy or say you can't be on that rock March.
• 56:48
  You've already done that time. So find that help and get that
• 56:52
  mental strength, get that taken care of.
• 56:56
  You know every. Everyone struggles.
• 57:01
  Every single one. One of the strongest men I know
• 57:04
  was Sergeant Major Bullard, and while he didn't tell me to his
• 57:08
  to my face, I can guarantee before he died, even that man
• 57:12
  struggled because we all do. The difference is, are you
• 57:16
  willing to go get help for it? I want to talk about it.
• 57:21
  Oh, you're absolutely right. And I I.
• 57:23
  Think that's definitely something that I've I've come to
• 57:27
  realize in a lot of veterans that I've I've come I've talked
• 57:31
  to you that are on well down their healing journey path.
• 57:37
  That's one of the biggest things that they also will say is what
• 57:40
  they realize is real strength comes from being honest about
• 57:45
  your being vulnerable about what you have going on, right?
• 57:49
  Like it, it takes courage to talk about these things
• 57:52
  publicly, right? And I commend you for for doing
• 57:57
  it, especially still being active duty, because most of us
• 58:00
  out there veterans wise, we know, or at least we assumed
• 58:04
  that if we tried to talk about certain things like this while
• 58:06
  we were on active duty, that somebody would say something or
• 58:10
  we would get blackballed or some type of stigma would be put up
• 58:13
  on us, right? Like that's the reason we just
• 58:16
  didn't talk about it then, you know, You know.
• 58:20
  I I doubt what happened, but if it did, I'd be OK.
• 58:22
  I'd be at peace because the whole point of this book and the
• 58:26
  whole point of going these shows was to try to help one person.
• 58:29
  And if I've helped one person, that's all that matters because
• 58:32
  I lost 1. So if I can help one, it's.
• 58:36
  Not equaling out my loss. But it it's proven that I'm
• 58:40
  still valuable in some way or another.
• 58:44
  No, I, I, I, I, I commend you for that because like you, like
• 58:47
  you just said, it's even if somebody did try to say
• 58:51
  something negative to you because of what you are doing
• 58:54
  doesn't matter because you're doing what you know is right and
• 58:57
  what needs to be done right. And that's.
• 59:01
  Yeah, and I've received, you know.
• 59:02
  People have said stuff about it's just the fact of what I
• 59:05
  did. I mean, I once again Combat arms
• 59:08
  and I wrote a book of poetry. Yeah, I did.
• 59:11
  And that's how I worked through it.
• 59:12
  And I'll tell you, I've had some, you know, some former SF
• 59:17
  guys, 20 years in the Special Forces that have read it and
• 59:20
  written reviews on it, that it helped them.
• 59:23
  So I take it as we, we can go down the rabbit hole of whether
• 59:27
  what's tough and what's not tough, but it doesn't matter
• 59:29
  when it comes the your, your mental state is a totally
• 59:33
  different muscle. And you know, I wrote a book of
• 59:38
  poetry and I'm still a warrior. You're no longer in the
• 59:40
  military. You're still a warrior.
• 59:42
  You have mental health issues. Guess what?
• 59:44
  You're still a warrior because when you went, when you broke
• 59:46
  your leg on a jump, on a bad airborne jump and you broke your
• 59:49
  leg, that doesn't make you not an airborne soldier.
• 59:53
  Getting after and tackling the. Issues that you're dealing with
• 59:55
  in your own inner self does not make you any less of what you
• 59:58
  are, it just strengthens you and allows you, gives you more
• 1:00:00
  resilience to keep going rather than slowly deteriorating.
• 1:00:07
  You're absolutely right, Ben. We are at time now and I want to
• 1:00:12
  give you an opportunity real quick.
• 1:00:14
  If there was one thing that you wanted to make sure that
• 1:00:18
  somebody heard tonight, if they're listening, what would
• 1:00:21
  that one thing be? Find where your peace is AT.
• 1:00:26
  Find where your peace is AT and chase after that.
• 1:00:29
  It doesn't matter if it makes sense to other people, doesn't
• 1:00:32
  even matter if it makes sense to your family.
• 1:00:33
  Because at the end of the day, when you find that peace, you're
• 1:00:37
  going to be better for your family where that's in God,
• 1:00:40
  which I do hope it is. But whether that's out hunting,
• 1:00:43
  where that's out helping veterans find your mission and
• 1:00:46
  find your peace and chase after it.
• 1:00:50
  That's awesome. Thank you for that, Jake.
• 1:00:51
  Again, thank you again for coming on the show tonight, man,
• 1:00:54
  and sharing your story. For everybody out there
• 1:00:56
  listening, please go out there and check out Jake's book.
• 1:01:00
  Again, Spurs of Service, go out there and look for it.
• 1:01:04
  Telling you, I got my copyright here.
• 1:01:06
  It stays right here beside my desk.
• 1:01:07
  I pick it up, I try to take a break a little bit from work all
• 1:01:11
  throughout the day. I'll pick it up and read through
• 1:01:12
  every a little bit here and there.
• 1:01:14
  So yeah, trust me, you'll, you'll enjoy it.
• 1:01:16
  Even if you're not into poetry. This is a book, I think a poetry
• 1:01:19
  book you can get behind. In my opinion.
• 1:01:21
  This could, this could actually open you up to be more involved
• 1:01:23
  in poetry, in my opinion. But again, again, thank you
• 1:01:27
  again, everybody follow the links, share, like comment,
• 1:01:31
  share this, share this show with somebody who you think needs to
• 1:01:33
  hear, hear a good story. And, and and here's some hope of
• 1:01:36
  some some healing. And as always, be the light in
• 1:01:39
  someone's dark. you for listening today's
• 1:01:51
  episode. Of the bunkhouse that this
• 1:01:52
  episode speaks to you or made you think of someone who might
• 1:01:55
  be struggling. Please share this with me.
• 1:01:57
  And remember, you don't have to carry this along.
• 1:01:59
  There are people who care and there's always the next step.
• 1:02:01
  If you'd like to stay connected, press follow and leave a review
• 1:02:04
  for more veterans and their families can find these stories.
• 1:02:07
  You can also connect with me and find other resources by
• 1:02:10
  following the links and the shadows.
• 1:02:11
  And as always, he is light in someone's dark.