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167: Persona 3 Reload w/ Wes · The #Backlog Breakdown

• 0:44
  Welcome to another episode of the backlog breakdown. I'm Nate, and I'm joined tonight, as always, by my friend and co host, Josh. How you doing?
• 0:53
  Hey, I'm doing good.
• 0:55
  You're doing good. And we're joined tonight also by a special with. By a special guest. Nate will talk pretty someday. Apparently not tonight. Uh, our friend Wesley Ray the hench and dad himself. How you doing tonight, Wes?
• 1:07
  Why, I'm doing fantastically. Thank you so much for inviting me on this wonderful radio show.
• 1:12
  Now, he's taking this entirely too seriously, but this is. This is the backlog breakdown. And, um, we're just a couple of guys, well, three guys tonight, uh, who love video games, love the church, and just wanted to explore that medium and hopefully sort of, you know, help our brothers and sisters engage that medium well. With that being said, I think it has been a number of weeks, Wes, I think since you've been on. When was the last episode that you were on? I can't remember off the top of my head, honestly.
• 1:47
  I think the number of weeks is almost like triple at this point. I'm pretty sure the last episode I was on was Final Fantasy. Like the. What was that? The. The book club with all the Final Fantasy games.
• 1:58
  Nine are all the Final Fantasies. Oh, my goodness.
• 2:02
  Well, the 2D Final fantasies, I'm pretty sure that was the last time. Either that or the portal one. It was one of the.
• 2:06
  That's.
• 2:07
  But it's been a number of weeks. Oh, yeah, that's right. We did talk about the PlayStation Portal. That was a.
• 2:13
  We did talk about PlayStation Portal, but as far as a full episode. So it's. It's been. It's been a minute. Yes, it's been you.
• 2:24
  Can we hear that again?
• 2:26
  Yeah, I was saying it's been. It's been there an undisclosed amount of time since we last talked to you. And, uh, just, you know, I guess just to sort of, like, catch up. How have you been, man, since that. That bite sized, I guess. I mean, we know because we sort of keep in contact, but for the, for the listening audience, I mean, since.
• 2:50
  Then, there's been a lot that's happened, an undisclosed amount of things that have happened, and, you know, some good, some not so good, but, you know, summer break happened, and I got to enjoy a nice summer with my family. We went camping as a whole family for, like, the first time in quite a while. Yeah, it's been. It was. It's been a great camping time. Yes. We just got back like a week and a half ago. And, yeah, summer breaks over, though. I have to work. I have to be a real adult. You know, nobody has any sympathy for me, the one who has entered, you know, ending my summer break and having to go back to the slavish world of, you know, being a teacher. But I get it. I get it. You're all jealous. That's understandable.
• 3:30
  Yeah. Yo, facts. I am kind of jealous of the way that the summer break thing happens. Now. I also know that, like, the way, like, because Megan's a teacher, too, but, like, during the school year, it's. It's. It's not like a clean 40 hours, so.
• 3:55
  Definitely not. No.
• 3:57
  A lot of work comes home.
• 3:59
  Definitely not. Yeah, I think I actually worked more Saturdays in the past year than I have in previous years. But, you know, I gotta make up for lost time.
• 4:12
  And that's like, even, you know, even when you sort of have, like, your. Your lesson plans sort of in place and your. Sort of your curriculum sort of, like, in a place to, you know, it's like there's still just a ton of work that just manages to come home.
• 4:28
  Exactly. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, being on more committees means I make more money. And you know what I can do with more money? I can buy more video games, not mind my finances and build up my backlog, because.
• 4:39
  Backlog, no. No budget shaming tonight, you know, but, yeah. So, Josh, it has been an undisclosed amount of time since we last spoke as well.
• 4:53
  That's true.
• 4:54
  What's been going on with you, my guy?
• 4:56
  Well, one of the things that's been going on, I went to a music festival with the pastor at my church. We had a good time. It was a couple hours away. It's called the is for Lovers Festival because it's put on by a band called Hawthorne Heights that their, their big song is called Ohio is for lovers and they do it all across the midwest. So at our stop, obviously, it was the Iowa is for Lovers festival. And I got to see a bunch of. It was, it was like from, I think they played from like three to maybe. What time did we leave? Maybe about eleven. So there were like seven or eight bands that we got to see. There were some that I. That I had only heard, but seeing them live was pretty cool. This band called action adventure was a lot of fun. Emery, I'd seen them a few times before. Honestly, like, Hawthorne Heights is not my favorite. They put on a good show. But the lead singer, because their band puts on these festivals, he was very positive and encouraging. I know we're all christians here. I think we know where I'm going with this. No, but just k love. No. Which is funny, because if you know that song Ohio is for lovers, it's so, like, over the top melodramatic. Cut my wrist and black my eyes so I can fall asleep tonight it's way over the top emo. But he was just very. Well, I guess, the whole band. But the sentiment they put forward was just like, you know, put yourself back, you know, when you first listen to this kind of music and remember and. And, like, there's always hope for tomorrow and, you know, we almost broke up these times and blah, blah, blah. And so it was, like, just a really positive atmosphere, which is kind of funny. But anyways, it was. It was fun. Got to see another band called Armor for Sleep, and then it ended with a yellow card, and they played through Ocean Avenue, that album, if you know. If you know. Which was just a lot of fun. So that was a good time. Lost my voice, stayed out, got home at, like, 145 in the morning, something like that. Then got up for church the next morning. So that was. That was fun.
• 7:03
  Sick, bro.
• 7:05
  Yeah. Yeah, we. We both made sure that we had coverage. Someone else. It was. He didn't preach. He had someone else come in and preach for him. And my wife led the music, so that was. That was intentional, which was good. But, yeah, other than that, fighting some sickness around the family stuff, which is always fun. Nothing major. It's not Covid, but it's just annoying, and it holds on, which is the most annoying part. But again, outside of those things, uh. Doing good, man. Doing good. How about you, Nate? How has it been?
• 7:39
  I I just feel like we're kind of in that season where it just, like, the hits stop coming and they won't stop coming.
• 7:50
  Oh, boy.
• 7:50
  You a rock star when you say hints.
• 7:53
  Oh, man.
• 7:54
  You mean something else entirely.
• 7:56
  I don't. Yeah. No, it just feels like we're kind of getting clobbered. So Byron finished his first week of daycare, and then we kept him home from church Sunday. Cause he wasn't. He was just, like, a little off. Monday of this week, I actually left work early because he would not stop screaming. We took him to the doctor's office, and I've got to admit, like, I was, like, dark places. Like, I was like, my child is going to need an appendectomy or something. Like, it's going to be, like, something where, like, it was just, like, his pain. Anyways, turns out he got ham foot and mouth disease, which is incredibly common, you know, with withdeze little children because they put everything in their mouth. And then when uh, Megan reached out.
• 8:52
  Even the big children do honestly.
• 8:54
  Yeah. Um. But Megan. Yeah. Uh, Megan reached out to the daycare and the daycare is like, we haven't had that in a while. I'm just like, oh, okay. It's like. Well yeah, but what it's like. And it's over the last couple of days. I had Tuesday off and then I stayed home today with him. But it's like he has gotten progressively better. But it was just like. It was heartbreaking those first couple of days because he was just uncomfortable. And then he was furious when you would try to give him. Because we would do alternating doses of Tylenol and Motrin. And he just was like, I am not having this. Like, he was like, nope, no, do not want this. No. Thank you. So. But we have been able to.
• 9:54
  We.
• 9:55
  Only needed really like consistent dosages. Wow. Like basically Monday and then like Tuesday he, he got a couple nips. And then today I don't think we gave him any until bedtime. And that was just like hopefully help him sleep. Um. So yeah, it's a. It's just been like there were a couple sleepless nights and I think like it's just, it's just. And it's like, you know, they call it ham foot and mouth disease. Right. Um. Almost all of his sores were in his mouth. Which is like. Was awesome because it meant he didn't really want to drink or eat right. Which is like super terrifying as a parent. Like I was yesterday, like just like yesterday I was taking one of like his medicine droppers. And just like for a while, like for every ten or 15 minutes, I was just like shooting 5 pedialyte into this kid. I was just like. I was like. And you know, of course. And he's thrashing around the whole time and he's mad at you and. But uh. But yeah, no, he's, he's kind of on the upswing. It's just. It's. It's always something, man. It's always something.
• 11:14
  Yeah. So sorry to hear that, dude.
• 11:18
  No, it's no fun.
• 11:20
  He's, he's doing better. Um. It's just like. I'll tell you what though. It. That, that first like when I got the call from Megan and it's like he will not stop screaming. Like I was low key freaking out. Cause it's like when your kids doing that, it's just like. Yeah. And it's, it's so out of pocket for him, like, so out of, like, character. Yeah, that, like. Cause he's really pretty, like, pleasant. He's, like, a little, like, happy go lucky kind of dude, and.
• 11:54
  But, yeah, see, all four of my children are, like, high emotion, so, like, they will be screaming for hours upon hours and everything, and I'm just like, yeah, that's normal. That's how it is, right?
• 12:09
  This is.
• 12:10
  This is.
• 12:11
  This is normal. This is fine. Yeah, this is fine. But, yeah, I feel like. Yeah, no, it's. It's. It's kind of one of those things where we're just. Like I said, it seems like we're sort of on the upswing, and that's kind of where we're at. But I. Yeah, moving along here, we. You know, we do have other forms to sort of, like, get to, and I think, you know, we. I think it's just time to talk about the things that we've been into since we last recorded, and, Wes, you.
• 12:42
  Mean report on some media? Let's report on some media.
• 12:52
  Beautiful. I can't believe you recorded this, Josh. This is amazing. This was taking you, like, weeks, you know?
• 13:02
  Yeah, I got to see that band live at the festival. It was pretty cool.
• 13:06
  Man, did you get in trouble for, like, you know, take it.
• 13:09
  Taking everything right now. I hate that. Well, and you know what, Wes? It is your fault that we have sort of gone down the AI music rabbit hole.
• 13:22
  Did I ever introduce you?
• 13:23
  Yes, yes. I. And I was writing. I was. I was writing, you know, scare quotes there. Tons of songs about Pokemon, mostly as a tribute to your shenanigans.
• 13:38
  Right.
• 13:39
  But I felt honored.
• 13:41
  Very much honored. Those songs were lit fleek, or whatever the kids say.
• 13:49
  The one about eating Pokemon, there was one that was just an absolute gem. I was really, like. It was freakish how good that one.
• 14:00
  Was right off the ethereal. I was just like, this is speaking to my soul in such a very specific way right now.
• 14:09
  But. Well, since we're on the topic of media, and since Josh has sort of ruined. Absolutely just guttered, my sort of emotional high. Wes, why don't you pick me up with, like, and just give me a couple things that you've been into lately, non video game related things.
• 14:27
  Okay. So, really, I've been. I've been watching a lot of stuff because, you know, I've been trying to get housework done, and dishes are just a great time to watch media with your headphones on that maybe you don't necessarily want the kids to be, you know, paying attention to. Or maybe it's incredibly boring. I don't know, but I'm trying to get off of YouTube a little bit. Like, actually watch shows. Shows. So at the beginning of summer, I watched this, I don't know, probably, like, a four hour long video about the Simpsons and growing up, you know, the Simpsons, they were absolutely evil. My parents hated the Simpsons. They thought it was just, like, absolutely corrupting to the soul. And I'm like, okay, yeah, that makes sense. Totally. Yeah. So I'd never watched it, and I was like, what? They're all. They're all weirdly colored and all that. It's really strange. It looked like a weird tv show. Cheap animation. But then I watched this video about, like, the Simpsons golden years, and I'm just like, huh. Some of these jokes are funny. Like, these little clips they're playing. It's kind of funny. Maybe I should check it out. And so, you know, the guy started, like, recommending, like, the best episodes, and I've kind of fallen down a rabbit hole to where now it's just like, that's basically all I've watched this week while I've been playing, you know, a certain video game that I'll mention later. But, like, there are so many funny episodes, and so many of them are absolutely not politically correct. Like, I've been absolutely flabbergasted by some of the jokes that they got away with. Like, back in the day, I'm just like, this would. This can't air today because it is not okay to talk about this. And I'm just like, well, this must be a fluke because, you know, this is just like the late eighties, early nineties and whatnot. And so I started watching some of the more recent episodes within the last couple years, and I'm like, some of these are actually pretty funny. I know that the stigma around the Simpsons is that it stopped being funny after, like, season ten, but I'm like, no, it's like, season 34. And this is actually, like, genuinely clever. And they do some really interesting storytelling things. I'm like, I guess they can get away with it because they're basically just writing their own check at this point. It's, like, the staple of american tv. And it's like, wow, this is actually funny. Like, I've had some good belly laughs, and there have been times where I've had to rewind, like, three times just to hear the joke again because it's like, oh, man. And if there's one episode in particular that I can, you know, plug here, I can't remember what season is. But it's called Homer's phobia.
• 16:39
  Just.
• 16:39
  Just watch it. Just go watch it, you know, and come back to me and talk to me about it, because it's hilarious. So that's mostly what it's about. I couldn't imagine. It's really weird, you know, but wow. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
• 16:54
  Yeah. Simpsons is, like, one of those things where I. And I just kind of have, like, apathy towards it. I recognize that some of it is probably pretty good, but I just don't care. It's like, one of those things where it's weird because there are so many people who sort of, in sort of my sort of context, who just celebrate it as, like, this sort of, like, gem on tv, and I'm just kind of like, yeah, I mean, I've watched a few seasons, but it's like. And it's funny. You're right. It is funny. It's clever. But I don't know.
• 17:39
  It's definitely low hanging fruit. It's not, like, mind blowing, but, gosh, it's just kind of, like. It's nice to laugh sometimes, and it's nice that you can just watch a show that can still make you laughter. And I think, in particular, you would like some of the opening bits that they do. They do opening bits, too. It's kind of crazy.
• 17:56
  Oh, yeah.
• 17:57
  There's this one I just watched the other day, and it was, like, homework. It's, like, sucked down to the couch, but then everything turns into, like, a Tim Burton, like, stop motion animation thing.
• 18:06
  I was like, nice.
• 18:07
  What the heck is this? This is, like, absolutely beautiful. Like, the way they made. It's, like, really gross and everything, like, inside the couch, but it's, like, absolutely beautiful animation, huh?
• 18:16
  Yeah.
• 18:17
  Okay. Okay.
• 18:19
  No, it's. It's. It's definitely, like I said, one of those things where I can kind of respect it, but it just, like, it just kind of, like, lands. It doesn't land with me, rather. It's just I've. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe it's. I just haven't seen, like, I always appreciate, like, the Halloween episodes, right?
• 18:38
  The.
• 18:38
  The treehouse of horrors, um, that kind of stuff. But I. Yeah. So. Well, yeah, I make no promises, but maybe one of these days I'll circle back around and it'll be your fault.
• 18:52
  Just that episode. Just that episode. It's really funny.
• 18:57
  What else you've been into, then?
• 18:59
  The only other thing I've been watching, other than the Simpsons, is actually just Star Trek at this point, because you know, and you have to blame Paul for this.
• 19:06
  Nice.
• 19:06
  100% Paul's fault. And it's just like, he's watching the original series with his kids, and I'm like, oh, I haven't watched the original series. So, you know, I got the subscription to Paramount plus, basically solely for Star Trek. And now I'm bouncing between episodes of the original series and rewatching some, like, choice episodes from Deep Space Nine and Voyager, which I actually enjoy. Voyager. A lot of people don't like it, but I actually found it really entertaining and has some of the most clever episodes I've seen. And then there's Enterprise, which is complete hot garbage, apparently. But I'm still, I'm trying to watch that, too. You know, I'm trying to watch all of Star Trek that I can because, you know, Star wars isn't good anymore and most of Star Trek isn't, but, you know, at least the old stuff is. And there's definitely more Star Trek than Star wars. So there you go. Oh, in prodigy. Star Trek. Prodigy on Netflix. It's actually one of the newest series, and it's an animated show. It's for kids. But actually, it's probably one of the best things Star Trek has put out in, like, the last 20 years, other than Star Trek. Picard, season three, not season one or two, but season three particular. And it's very, very good, like, genuinely good kids tv, but also keeping, like, keeping it respectful towards, like, the original season. And there are so many, like, homages to that original season, and so much respect paid towards the concept of, like, Starfleet and the Federation and the optimism and hope that it's supposed to, you know, empower people to do. And it's not a grim, dark little kids show. It's, like, really hopeful and nice. I'm like, oh, this is pleasant to watch. I really like this.
• 20:39
  There's another Star Trek animated show, though. It's, like, called below decks or something like that.
• 20:44
  Oh, yeah, it looks like garbage.
• 20:45
  Have you watched that?
• 20:46
  No, absolutely not. I will never watch that. No. It looks so gross. Ew. I hate that. Rick and Morty animation. I think it's just awful, that.
• 20:55
  And it's, it's kind of, yeah, it's got, like, the Rick and Morty vibes or, like, a family guy meet Star Trek kind of, like, thing. Yeah, just, like, bunch of gags and completely un, I just wondered if you had watched that at all.
• 21:10
  No, absolutely not.
• 21:12
  You haven't. So you can't weigh in on it at all.
• 21:15
  I'm sure it's absolute garbage based on the clips I've seen.
• 21:22
  Well, all right. Well, Josh, what do you got for us? Mandy?
• 21:26
  Um, okay, so stuff that I've been into. Well, I mentioned earlier that festival that I went to, the music festival, and so here. Here's my recommendation. It's the album Ocean Avenue by yellow card. It's the one that they played. It's. It's 21 years old, I think, something like that. And so. Okay, I get it. I'm biased. I have nostalgia for it. It came out while I was in high school, and so it reminds me of a certain time in high school, but going back and listening to it again, just kind of prepping for the concert, I'm like, you know what? A lot of these songs are actually really well written. And it's. It's actually. It's better. It holds. Not only does it hold up, it's like. It's. It's better in some ways than it used to be. It's not just nostalgia. And so I was very pleasantly surprised that something so nostalgic isn't just because of the rose colored glasses, but it's like, hey, I. This is actually a good album, so I would recommend go listen. Go. Go back, especially if you have nostalgia for it. But go back and listen to the album Ocean Avenue by yellow card because it's a good one outside of that. So I listened through this book, this audiobook that has been making the rounds. There's lots of controversy on it in Christian Twitter, and so I don't want to wade into the controversy, but I listened to shepherds for sale by Megan Basham. Then there's. Yeah, there's both sides of the debate. Go real hot on things. I will just say. So basically what it is is Megan Basham is a journalist, a reporter, and the thesis of the book is to show how the liberal leftward drift within american evangelicalism. She traces some of it, some of it back to some. Some organizations that have ties to. That have financial ties to other. Other organizations, basically, people outside of the church who would like to see the evangelical voting bloc to accept some of their progressive policies. Okay. And so they couch some of this in. In christian language. So she goes through a number of different issues. She goes kind of issue by issue, like, six, seven different issues. She tackles abortion. She tackles the response to Covid, the whole LGBTQ, RST, LGTV community stuff. And again, just the leftward drift of american evangelicalism and how. How basically, a lot of the arguments that are made for these things, immigration was another one, racial reconciliation. And that how it's come from some sources that just want the evangelical voting bloc to vote a certain way. And so they couch it in christian language so that christians can kind of accept these things. And so I think in that sense it is good to be aware of that there are, you know, there are forces because it makes sense on paper. Oh, yeah. Okay. If, if someone who is just totally not religious at all, you know, wants to capture christian voting, then, yeah, they would probably try and find a way to do that. And, and so there's been, there's been back and forth, you know, titling the book. Chris, shepherds for sale. That's really misleading because the shepherd is a pastor and you're saying these pastors are selling their pulpits. That's not exactly what it is. Okay. Um, it's, it's, it is more nuanced than that. Um, I would recommend checking the book out. I understand there's lots of controversy, but I thought overall it was good, even if in some ways it seems a bit overblown, like the first few chapters. Honestly, I'm like, okay, this really isn't that controversial. Like, this is kind of just boilerplate. But then when it started digging into some other areas, I was like, oh, yeah, no, I really don't like that. You know, I don't like how some of these people are upheld when, oh, they've done, you know, these deals or, or they have these certain viewpoints or, you know, one of the things that she brings out is that Christianity today, which is a major evangelical publication and has been for a long time, I believe it was started by Billy Graham. How their current staffers, she traced all of the political donations made by the staffers there at Christianity today and all except for one, which I think, I can't remember. It was a few dozen political donations that have been made over the past ten years or whatever, all except for one, were to democratic candidates. And to me, that's concerning, you know, like, you get that the magazine would have a certain viewpoint if that's the case. You know, so, so things like that where it's not like shepherds for sale, it sounds like, oh, you know, it's, everything's going to explode, everything's so bad, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, no, it's not that. It's not the end of the world, but it's some things to be aware of to, you know, as you encounter these things. And it's really an encouragement at the end of the day to be a berean to go back to scripture and make sure you're getting your beliefs from scripture and not from, you know, twisting scripture. So. So I thought it was good, and I would recommend it, but there's lots of controversy, so I get if people don't like it. Sorry. I did.
• 27:14
  The one that I saw, and I don't want to really wade into too much, is that apparently she names. She talks about, like, an in church scandal, and she names one of the victims, and that apparently, that name had been the person that she named. I did not want that story to be tied to her.
• 27:43
  Like, okay.
• 27:44
  Like. And I did see that one, and it seems like. It does seem like she did not correctly vet or she didn't confirm. Like, it's like, she relayed a story that was factual, and she named names, which, to a certain extent, I'm like, okay with. But there's also where the victim does have a right to their privacy.
• 28:10
  Yeah.
• 28:11
  In those situations. And apparently, like, apparently she didn't do that. And so that that was okay. I mean, like, I don't care. Like, you know, it's. Maybe someday I'll check it out. But, you know, it's. Yeah, no, it's one of those books that. Yeah, I've seen it kind of, like, making the rounds, and my general feeling just is, like, all political commentary is pretty dumpster fire. So I'm just kind of like, eh. Unless you're just saying, like, oh, they all kind of suck. Which it sounds like maybe she's doing that. I don't know. But, like, yeah. Anyways.
• 28:53
  But, hey, it got an endorsement from Mark Driscoll. I mean, come on. And it's got to be credible.
• 28:58
  Did it really? Oh, my goodness. That is hilarious, because that dude has been reported on.
• 29:06
  Oh, my God. Which I don't think necessarily speaks ill of the book. I think he's just that delusional about himself.
• 29:14
  It just shows how out of touch he is. Yeah. But, yeah, I don't think. Yeah. Like I said, oh, you know, maybe. Maybe someday I'll check it out. So I make no promises, but as far as what I've been into, just a book that had kind of been. I got a text from my uncle Barry, and he said, hey, you ought to check this book out. And it's called the Christ key, by, I think, chad Bird. Yes. That's what my notes say.
• 29:49
  I find it funny that you guys are both mentioning, like, good books and whatnot, and I'm just like, I watched tv. I saw a lot of episodes of the Simpsons?
• 29:59
  No, man. It's like sometimes, you know, I just come in here and talk about whatever garbage anime. But the Christ key, I had it right in my notes, but I didn't trust my notes. That just shows you Chad Bird does.
• 30:17
  Sound like a pseudonym, to be fair.
• 30:18
  Yeah. And I have no idea who he is, but it's one of those. It's. I feel like I've heard his name. I just don't. I can't remember. But the premise of the book is that a lot of times in the modern church, we tend to emphasize the importance of the New Testament over the Old Testament. But one of the things that he makes out is that a lot of times, especially in the gospel letters, and he's not trying to downplay the New Testament. I feel like you have to, like, there's, like, a weird caveat, but what he says is that there's a way that he puts it that might raise some eyebrows, but that essentially, especially in New Testament writing, when they were talking about the scriptures, they weren't referring to the other gospels. They weren't referring to the letters. They were referring to the Old Testament, the Torah, and I. That's kind of wild. And so he's. And he's basically sort of, like, throughout the book, he's trying to get the reader to sort of recognize the importance of the Old Testament and sort of saying, like. And he's, he's basically. And he even sort of, like. One of the things he says is, like, he talks about when Jesus met the two disciples on the Emmaus road, and he kind of walks them through the Old Testament and sort of shows them how, like, the Old Testament and the prophets, like, they were all talking. It was all talking about him. And so what Chad is trying to do in this book is really sort of open our eyes and sort of inflame our hearts for the Old Testament. Like, and I. It's really pretty interesting. And I would just. I'm not done with it yet. I'm about maybe a third of the way through it. It's pretty good. It's pretty good. I don't know where it's gonna. I'm gonna say, like, it's gonna hit. Like, it has hit me in some weird ways. I'm like, oh, I don't know how I feel about that. And it might make some people uncomfortable because. But it's good. It's really good. The, the other thing that I'm, I'm listening to, per se, is I'm listening to the death stranding novelizations.
• 32:47
  Ah.
• 32:49
  And it's kind of. I'm.
• 32:55
  There are some things that they describe in that book that I don't like having verbal descriptions of, to be perfectly fair.
• 33:02
  And, yeah, I wonder how much of that is like that, because it was originally written in Japanese. Right. They were written by a guy named Etori Njimajima thing. Yeah, yeah. Etori no Jima or Najima and. Or Nojima, however you want to say. I don't know. Like, I'm probably butchering it any which way you cut it. So they were written in Japanese, then translated into English. And so I wonder how much of that is a function of that and how much of it is just, like, literally, that's kind of how he writes. So it's. It's not. They're not bad by any stretch of the imagination. Like, I'm only in the first one. And again, it's maybe, like, maybe a third of the way through it. I'm also trying not to spoil the game for myself, but it's like, yeah, because I'm.
• 34:05
  But anyways, at least it doesn't spoil the gameplay.
• 34:08
  No. And that's, like, the gameplay. The gameplay is awesome in that game. And we will talk about this later. But, dude, you're allowed to be wrong. It is. Okay. Like, I just don't think that. What chapter are you in?
• 34:21
  I don't remember. Uh, yeah, no, probably the. I was gonna say the third. Not even. Not even. Yeah, still early on.
• 34:29
  Yeah.
• 34:29
  The third is actually, like, where it gets kind of good. Okay. I hate saying that, but it's like, yeah.
• 34:39
  Anyways, all I can say is, I'm from the novelization. All I can say is, if I never have to hear the words whale's anus again. That would be one.
• 34:49
  Oh, wow.
• 34:50
  Yes.
• 34:51
  Yeah.
• 34:51
  Because I had my son in the backseat when I turned it on. I'm like, oh, okay. It's describing stuff.
• 34:56
  Oh, that's.
• 34:57
  Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute here. We're not gonna listen to this right now, dude.
• 35:04
  Yeah.
• 35:04
  So, yeah, I don't. I don't remember that in particular, but, yeah. Like, early on, when he describes the opening scene of the game.
• 35:13
  Yeah.
• 35:14
  Whereas the beginning, it's like, the throat. The throat of the baby, and then it comes out the throat of your main character, Sam. That's right. Because it's after he dies.
• 35:23
  It didn't come out of the throat of the whale, though.
• 35:25
  Didn't. Did not. No, no. And I was like, oh, okay.
• 35:33
  So that was a dad fail. An absolute dad fail on my part.
• 35:36
  I mean, I'm glad the game didn't go there. Maybe the movie will go there. I don't know where the movie's gonna go.
• 35:43
  But, yeah, it was. It's. It's odd. Like, I don't know. But, uh.
• 35:51
  Wait, death stranding is.
• 35:52
  Yes. Oh, you know, you know, kind of what I actually like about it, and it's like, it's. And again, I don't want to get too into the weeds on this, but I'm actually kind of like, death stranding is like, it's got a fairly healthy doth, doth dose of absurdism. And we all know that. I really do sort of enjoy absurdism. I like absurdity. But anyways, before, I guess, like, that's all I've been into as far as, like, books go and sort of other media. But we are a video game podcast, so let's talk about the things that we've been playing. Wes, it looks like you've got a bit of a docket here for us. So what do you got?
• 36:38
  Okay. Okay, I'm gonna make this really quick. Real quick. So recently, within the last, I don't know, month or so. I don't even remember when it released. Maybe in July. Maybe it was July. Yeah, July 18, I think the Nintendo world Championships game released on the Switch. And let me tell you, if you liked NES remix on the, what was it? Wii U. On the Wii U, you are going to absolutely love Nintendo world championships. I've never had this much fun with a little arcadey game, honestly. And basically what it does is it lets you play all the, like, you know, speedrun portions of various Nintendo games going back. You know, you have the regular Super Mario brothers, Super Mario brothers, two lost levels, Mario three, Kirby's adventure, Metroid, you know, all the classics. Basically, they even put balloon fight in there. I mean, come on. Balloon fight. And what it lets you do is, like, play, like, little snippets. And your basic thing is just, you just need to go really fast. Just go really fast. Try to do whatever you need to do to beat it as quickly as possible. And then it ranks you based on grades and everything, and you even can go against other people, like, all around the world, even in Japan. Normally, we lose to people in Japan, but, you know, sometimes. Sometimes I actually do pretty well. Sometimes I score an s rank on a lost levels, like, level run, and I feel really good about myself. And I think I posted that video up in the discord, but it's just so much fun. They have new challenges every week. And you get to earn these little pins. And the deluxe edition came with, like, little Nintendo world championship pins and had, like, a facsimile copy of the gold cartridge Nintendo world championship that, you know, people apparently got. I'm pretty sure it's a myth, but it is so much fun. It's just, like, little bite size, you know, challenges that you can do, and I love it.
• 38:17
  Nice.
• 38:18
  You guys need to get it, play it.
• 38:20
  I've heard that the physical version, like, the physical edition is, like, one of. It's like, this is how collector's editions kind of stuff should be done.
• 38:31
  Wow.
• 38:32
  Nice.
• 38:33
  It came with, like, postcards of all of the box art for. Or the cartridge art for all the games included. It had, like, five pins. Like, then they look like root. Like, real. Like, you could have gotten these pins at the actual Nintendo world championships. And it has that facsimile cartridge, and it's so good. It's wonderful. I love it.
• 38:50
  Yeah. It's supposed to be a really nice little piece of kit.
• 38:54
  Yeah. But even if you don't get it physically, you can get it digitally for, like, $30. I'd say it's totally worth it. Absolutely worth it. So, other than that, though, I've been playing by, you know, Nick's recommendation. I don't know if you guys heard that little episode I put out where he tries to convince me to play Elden ring and Final Fantasy 16. So I decided, okay, I have Final Fantasy 16. I've beaten most of the Final Fantasies, if not all of them at this point, other than, like. I don't know. I can't remember which one I haven't beaten, actually. I gave up on eight, though, because eight is garbage. But other than that, Final Fantasy 16, I find it very interesting. It's really nice playing, like, a Final Fantasy game that's an actual Fantasy setting. It feels more like the first five final fantasies, whereas the Sci-Fi stuff started getting a little bit ramped up in six. But it feels like Final Fantasy one through five in a lot of different ways. There's no technology that I can see. It has the coolest sid in the world. The guy is, like, 44 years old, so he's really speaking to, like, the adult male crowd that's, you know, wanting to play these games. He smokes, and he has, like, the.
• 39:57
  Coolest northern european in Jr. Basically dead.
• 40:01
  Yeah, basically. But he looks younger than our own. That's the weirdest thing. He has, like, the coolest accent, like, this northern, like, european accent. And, dude, he's, like, the coolest character, and you meet him, like, really early on, you have a pet wolf or, you know, dog of some sort, and you got your, like, you know, Koromaru, you know, adjacent type dog, and you can pet the dog, and it's really fun. There's a lot of f bombs in this game, though. Holy cow. I was not expecting f bombs in my final Fantasy. I wasn't expecting nudity scenes either. It's kind of weird, but, you know, wow, it's. It's a bit weird. Yeah, it's a bit weird. It's pretty telegraphed. You can skip it pretty easily. So, you know, I don't recommend that part, but this game earned m rating. And I'm like, yep. Yes, you did. You earned your end rating well.
• 40:42
  And part of it was that they were really leaning into. I was hearing that, like, they really wanted to sort of embrace fantasy a la Game of Thrones.
• 40:54
  Well, I would definitely say they succeeded. It feels less nihilistic than that, though, because Sid, you know, even though he's, like, really down and out and he's like, there was this really good scene. I wish I had taken a video clip of it of where I'm at right now. I think I'm only in, like, I'm still in the first chapter. So, you know, about three or 4 hours in, but he's just talking about, it's like, you know, even though everything looks absolutely decimated, you know, we have absolutely no hope. I still fight because I have hope that I can, you know, basically, like, bring smiles to children and everything, you know, and doing the whole, like, you know, hope is the greatest thing ever speech. I'm like, wow, that was actually really good. George Rr Martin could never write anything that great, you know, well, he would.
• 41:34
  Write that and then have that person immediately butcher.
• 41:38
  If anything happens to the Sid, I am quitting this game entirely. Unless he goes out in a blaze of glory in, like, the most honorable way. This Sid is the best Sid, in my opinion, better than any other sid. He's so cool. I don't want to say I love him because, you know, but I do.
• 41:59
  It's okay.
• 42:01
  He's too cool to be in this game. And then finally, the evergreen game. I play all the time Pokemon go. I put more hours in Pokemon go than Nate has ever put in Marvel snap. And I will stand by that. I've been playing basically since July 2016 constantly.
• 42:16
  And do you have, like, an hour counter?
• 42:20
  I wish. No, but I know I've been playing since 2016, like, since it came out you know, I started. Stopped here, but I'm at level 47, and level 50 is a really, really hard grind for, like, you know, 100 million experience. But, you know, I only have three more levels to go until they will probably inevitably raise that level cap. And I play. I play all the time. Like, when you're talking about, you know, seasons in Marvel snap. And I'm like, oh, yeah, totally. I get that. You know, being matched up with people all around the world with the battles, and it's like, yep, yep, I get that. So it's fun. I think I just got my 110,000th Pokemon recently. So, you know, grinding them up into candy and feeding them to their brethren make them more powerful. Such a fun game.
• 43:02
  Delicious.
• 43:07
  It's so fun. Such a great game. I'm, like, one of the only few people playing. You know, even, you know, Nick and Paul have just kind of stopped. They're filthy casuals when it comes to Pokemon go.
• 43:16
  They dabble.
• 43:18
  I am the true hardcore right here.
• 43:23
  He is the hardest of the hardcore. But, Josh, how do you respond to all of that?
• 43:30
  I just say, wow, that's crazy to think back. Yeah. 2016, you've been playing Pokemon go longer than we've had this podcast. Yeah, that's.
• 43:38
  Obama was still in office, I think, at that point. No, no, Trump was in office at that point.
• 43:43
  Was he? No, no, it was because Pokemon go.
• 43:49
  That's right. Yeah. Hillary Clinton was still a presidential candidate when Pokemon go came out. That's how long I've been playing Pokemon.
• 43:58
  Go to the polls.
• 43:59
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 44:00
  Barf.
• 44:01
  So cringy. So cringy. Okay, well, something that's not so cringy is. You know, we have. Obviously, this episode is. Is one of our patron picks. It's a game that we played. I'm so happy to have played it again, sort of. It's kind of. And last episode was the same way with Elden Ring. Well, there's another one that's coming up here soon. And so I started digging into it. But the outer worlds. Mark recommended this game, and it's interesting because, like, I don't know, it's a bioware game, and so, like, I've definitely. It feels a lot like those, except more comedic, you know, out in space.
• 44:44
  And I know what you're doing. I was like, I corrected you, and you kept going. And then the more you talked about it, I was like, no way.
• 44:55
  Yeah. Problem?
• 44:56
  Nope. And then the self satisfied little smirk because he entertained himself.
• 45:03
  Yeah, I don't have a very good poker face. No, I have not played the outer worlds, just a little bit of outer wilds. And from what I've heard, you're supposed to go into this game blind, which I had, for the most part, gone in blind. So I still don't really know what's going on. I'll say that the initial start of the game was not exactly. I didn't want to just walk around and talk with people, and that's kind of what you do at the beginning, you know? And I got a little impatient. And I will say also that within the maybe hour that I've played, I've already rolled credits, so that's good. But again, I can't really talk too much to it. I'm intrigued. I know I said that for death stranding, too, but. No, I want to see where this one goes because it comes highly recommended. It sounds like it does some. Some cool things just with the medium of video games. So I'm stoked to see where it goes. But right now, I don't really. I don't know what I'm doing. It's wild, but I. Yeah, like I said, rolls and credits on that. So that's been.
• 46:06
  You might say it's outer wild.
• 46:09
  Yeah. Yeah, it's out there, man.
• 46:11
  No, I would not say that. But that's.
• 46:15
  That's really all that I've been digging into. Nate, how about you? What you been playing?
• 46:19
  Um, and I, you know, we already sort of, like, brushed up against this dude, death stranding. Um, and I am pretty much at the end of chapter three, and I've heard that the chapters after this, it sort of, like, moves a lot quicker once you sort of really get going here. But, yeah, uh, I I really like death stranding a lot. I'm. I'm into it. Like, uh, I've got enough tools in the toolkit, and just. Yeah, I. Okay, so, Josh, I have been. When you get into chapter three, like, you might come across roads, and I think the thing, like, I could have finished chapter three earlier, but I became obsessed with, like, basically dumping resources into building roads because it just, like, means you can, like, cross the map so much easier. And it's so cool. Like, it's kind of cool. Like, it's a really cool little thing where, like, the anime, and it's just like. And then people use them, and it's like, yeah, it. It sounds really dumb, but I guess I'm just a sucker for infrastructure, and you don't. You don't realize how, like, good and useful roads are until you don't have them. And then when you can put them in a game, it's like, oh, this makes, this is, this is so much better. But, yeah, no death stranding. Still playing that really. It just, it did kind of click for me where I was like, oh, no, can I get this? And it's no longer a question of, like, oh, do I, do I love this game or do I hate it? It's like, no, I'm pretty sure I kind of, like, love this game. It's definitely out there. And I think a lot of it, though, too, is like, it does sort of, without getting, again, too into the weeds, it does sort of, like, scratch a bunch of different itches that I like it that it's kind of got that desolation, that sort of, that sort of, again, that shadow of the colossus kind of vibe where there's this big open world and it's kind of, it's not empty. Empty, but it's. It's pretty desolate. And, like, there are like, yeah, you'll, you'll run into mules and stuff. But so it's got that going for it. It's got, like, really cool vibes. It is, like, kind of Sci-Fi post apocalyptic absurdism. And there's something about that that I'm just kind of, like, tickled by right now. And so I just. Yeah, but that and just more of toilet snapdein.
• 49:02
  Is this a game where you, like, date your toilet or something?
• 49:04
  Because surely no game would ever be announced. It's just like, it's Marvel snap. But I just try to, like, really limit it. Now, with Byron being sick, there has been a lot of, like, he just, like, needs cuddled and, like. Cause that's, like, that's the thing. Like, that's the awesome part, is, like, he just, like, wants kind of held. It's also, like, kind of, like, tough because, like, it means you can't do anything else really well.
• 49:30
  Sure.
• 49:30
  Yeah. And so there's a lot of, like, you know, there has been a pretty significant spike in Marvel snap playtime gotch over the last couple of. Over the last week. Yeah.
• 49:48
  Because you've gotten sick and spent more time on the toilet.
• 49:53
  Yeah, I have. I have.
• 49:55
  No, that's a lot of toilet time.
• 49:58
  No. So it's kind of like. But, yeah, that's really all I've been playing. It's like I said, I'm really kind of enjoying death stranding. I'm trying to sort of. Yeah, I don't want to, like, rush through it, but I am trying to kind of clear it. Um, we're gonna be recording the. The Death Stranding book club episode imminently, and I want to. I'm going to beat this game. Like, that's. That's just kind of where I'm at, whether I do that before or after the recording. But then, yeah, it's like, it's. I'm gonna sort of put my head down and sort of dig into outer wilds as well. So that's on the docket. Um, but, yeah, but, yeah, that's all I've been playing. And, you know, so that there's been no change to my beat down score. Josh, it doesn't sound like you've. Well, you said you rolled credits on outer wilds.
• 50:53
  Yeah, but because it's a patron game, I didn't own it before. I thought I had, but I didn't, so I purchased it for that. So it's just a net zero no matter what.
• 51:02
  Okay. See, I actually bought it a while ago, and so it'll just be, when I do get to it, it'll be an excuse for me to actually get around to it. So.
• 51:10
  Nice.
• 51:12
  Our beat down scores haven't changed at all. I think I'm still at a plus one or whatever. Although I was telling you guys, you know, off mic, that, um, metaphor that I've been re. Yeah, I've been reading review coverage or preview coverage of metaphor reference, and everybody saying that, like, and it's not really that big a surprise, but that atlas, uh, really did some cooking here. And, uh, especially coming off the heels of what I just sort of wrapped up, I'm like, okay. Like, okay. Like, I'm. I'm kind of, like, tuned up for it. Will I get to it anytime soon? No. Am I probably going to try and pick it up this year? Yes, but I haven't yet, so no need to talk about that. But, hey, you know, just sort of moving along here, guys. You know, something that we'd like to sort of just throw at you real quick here. Something that we'd like you to be maybe a little bit more interested in is we have a patreon, right? And tonight we're going to be talking about Persona three. Reload. And that was Wes, who is a patron. That was his patron pick, and we. So we're going to be. That's. And that's one of the perks that you can get for joining our Patreon for as little as a buck a month. You know, you get early and uncut access to each and every episode. There's a video feed that's exclusive to the patrons right now? No, and we'll always be. That particular video feed will always be exclusive to the patrons. There's the brohang, which is a podcast exclusively for patrons. They get special roles in our discord servers, and they get a lot more access to us. So. And basically, there are partners as we sort of endeavor and sort of, you know, with whatever this thing becomes. Orlando, you know, is. So, yeah, if you like what we're doing and you want to go a little bit above and beyond, that's a way that you can do it, you know? So, uh, that being said, wes, you're with us tonight here, and, uh, I think you. You have a desire to sort of, like, mount a little bit of a defense, because apparently I have slandered your podcast.
• 53:28
  I did not say slandered whatsoever. I am just saying maybe. Maybe you're overrepresenting a certain niche of, you know, episodes that I do. And I don't. I don't want to say, like, you know, painting a broad brush with my podcast, but my podcast is the Retronym podcast, and it is about, you know, retro content and everything. And, yes, I do tier lists on Pokemon, but let me promise you, dear listeners, if you have nothing, listen to the Retronym podcast. We talk about more, or I should say I, because it's a solo, solo joint there. I talk more about, you know, other things. You know, I don't just talk about eating Pokemon and setting them on fire in garbage cans while that content is there. And I fully support throwing some particular Pokemon in a garbage can and setting some of them on fire and, you know, possibly throwing some in a lake. That's not all my podcast is about. You know, I talked there would be.
• 54:22
  The fire Pokemon that you throw in a lake, right?
• 54:26
  Absolutely. Charmander. Come on, dude. A salamander with a tail on fire? How am I supposed to believe that? Come on. No, not happening. But, no, I talk about retro stuff. I think I did an episode about Kirby's dream Land recently. I don't know. I recorded it, like, two years ago, and they've just been sitting on my hard drive because my old computer broke. And, you know, it's like, what do you do? I don't know. Finally got a newish computer. I can finally do stuff. And. Yeah. Oh, and I did a little interview with Nick, who is another, you know, Playwell network person and person, I don't know how to say podcaster. And he tried to convince me to play Elden ring and Final Fantasy he.
• 55:04
  Is also a person.
• 55:06
  Yes, yes. And a patron. He's a lot of p words.
• 55:10
  Paustrellion Paw Strellian yes.
• 55:15
  Go listen to the podcast if you want, you know, short podcasts that are not 5 hours long. I don't know why you wouldn't want, you know, podcasts that are less than 5 hours long, but you know, my podcast is even faster if you listen to it at three times speed, I hear, which I do also. So, you know, like a sociopath, it's a couple minutes out of your day. Enjoy it. That's all I have to say about it.
• 55:38
  In courtesy of the Retronym podcast, we actually, in lieu of our regular commercial, because I think Wes wrapped it up really well there. He created this wonderful song for us that we'll be listening to as we discuss Persona three. Reload. Here we go. Turn around the mics.
• 56:12
  It's time to dive in deep.
• 56:15
  Persona three Reload.
• 56:16
  Where shadows never sleep, late's on the journey. First step on this row. While Josh, the veteran who knows the weight of the load, we're stepping into the dark el the clock strikes twelve.
• 56:34
  We got trusty dark into the shadows.
• 56:38
  We'Ve dealt he's the best boy brave and true fighting by our side in his midnight maze he's our guide and.
• 56:48
  Our pride.
• 56:53
  And our pride.
• 56:58
  From tartarest.
• 57:00
  Towers to the velvet rooms clothes every twist, every high, every low needs got questions as he faces the unknown Josh shares his love how this game's grown.
• 57:08
  We step into the dark count when the clock strikes twelve with our trusty dog who move into the shadows we.
• 57:17
  Dealt he's the best boy breaking the.
• 57:20
  Truth fighting by our side in this.
• 57:23
  Midnight maze he's our guy and I'll cry and I'll cry.
• 57:38
  From Tartarus Towers to the velvet rooms glow we'll explore.
• 57:41
  Every twist, every high, every low Nate's got questions as he faces the unknown Josh shares his love how this game's grown from father we our fates intertwined Nate's learning the ropes while Josh rewinds Kurumura's bark echoes the light in the night in the heart of the storm he's our beacon of light we're stepping.
• 57:58
  Into the dark hour when the clock.
• 58:01
  Strikes twelve with our trusty dog kuromuru.
• 58:05
  Into the shadows we delve he's the.
• 58:07
  Best boy brave and true fighting by our side in this midnight maze he's our guide and our pride join us now as we break it all down.
• 58:21
  In the world of Persona where shadows.
• 58:26
  Drown with core valley we'll make it through the free willow with a fresh point of view. And we're back. So tonight we're gonna be spending some time talking about Persona three. I don't know whether I love or hate that thing that you made, Wesley, that you made with my own two hands with. You slaved over and you totally didn't feed a prompt into chat GPT and then port it over to Suno.
• 59:19
  Hey, hey. Prompting takes a lot of work, man. You have to know exactly what to say. It's like working with children, okay? And I do that too, so, you know, it's hard. It's difficult.
• 59:34
  I don't believe you.
• 59:35
  He prompted with his own two hands.
• 59:37
  That's right.
• 59:39
  He used those ten phalanges to prompt. Do the prompting. But, you know, we're not here to discuss the merits of AI generated anything. We're actually here tonight to talk about Persona three. Reload which the AI might come into this. We will be. There's a.
• 1:00:00
  What's up?
• 1:00:03
  There's a distinct possibility that we will be talking about robots. The. I don't know why I say I don't know, like, I never said that before. And that's a distinctly, like, western pennsylvanian thing, like, calling them robots. And I did it. I started doing it, like, ironically. And then the dangerous part is, like, occasionally, like, I forget what I'm. If I, like, am I saying robot or robot? And it's. It's terrible.
• 1:00:32
  Just comes out.
• 1:00:33
  Because everything western is better. Everything western is better than the eastern part. Like, the United States, my guy.
• 1:00:40
  Come to western Pennsylvania, and I will very clearly demonstrate your error.
• 1:00:47
  My trip to Virginia was. That was something.
• 1:00:51
  We will. I will drive you. I will drive you 45 minutes deep into the heart of Yinzer country, and you will hear a foreign dialect that will be like, I had no idea. It will horrify you.
• 1:01:06
  I'll take you to Portland. There you go.
• 1:01:10
  That's just. I mean, I know that that's also be horrifying. I see it on the Internet all the time. Oh, but we're getting. We're getting off track again.
• 1:01:21
  Yeah, let's. Let's travel east past the ocean to a faraway country of Japan, where they created this game, Persona three. I guess you could go west also, but, you know, you could.
• 1:01:33
  Easier for me, you could.
• 1:01:34
  Spherical. You know, things.
• 1:01:36
  I mean.
• 1:01:37
  But it is referred to as the east.
• 1:01:40
  That's actually, like. I just. I just found this out that Orient actually just means from the east. And so, like, when they call that league, you know, I know, that's not, like, super PC, but, like, using the term oriental meant people like, the ramen flavor. Yeah, it means from the east. So, you know, and. And I don't. I think it would be fair to say that we all fans of Nippon, maybe not glorious. Yeah, maybe not to the extent of particularly one side character in this game that we. We could talk about, maybe, but, yeah, we're gonna be talking about Persona three. Reload tonight. And, Wes, since this was your patron pick, we're just gonna, like. I'm just gonna kind of, like, you know, for the most part, like, we'll just sort of dance well, and, Josh, you know, you're fairly experienced with it, but I'll just sort of, like, you know, I'll dance to your tunes here, so, you know, get after it, pied pipers. But, Wes, you are patron. This was your pick, so why don't you sort of kick us off here, my guy?
• 1:02:53
  Okay, so, Persona. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead.
• 1:02:56
  I would actually like to. I mean, we can. We can give some if we want to just explain what the game is, that's fine. But I'd like to know why you decided to pick this game for us to play.
• 1:03:05
  Oh, because. Okay, so here's the thing. So let me give you a little bit backstory on the west here. So, mister Josh, you've been very instrumental in my life, and you were the one to convince me to finally give Persona three a try for Persona three portable way back in 2020. I'm pretty sure it was 2020, and I busted through that. It was one of the best gaming experiences I've had, especially, like, definitely my favorite Persona game at this point. But, you know, I was like, man, this is not really approachable for people like, people like Nate, you know? And I'm gonna just let that go completely without commentary. But, you know, Nate, I just didn't.
• 1:03:41
  Know he was old.
• 1:03:44
  I didn't know if he would go for, like, the PSP version, because it is more of a point and click adventure rather than.
• 1:03:49
  And to be fair, I own all of them.
• 1:03:53
  That's true as well.
• 1:03:54
  I own fess. I own. I used to. I owned vanilla ps two, Persona three physically, and I own p. Three p. I have owned, or I currently own all of them. So I just.
• 1:04:14
  And how many times have you finished it?
• 1:04:17
  Zero.
• 1:04:18
  Zero. Except for now you've finally done it. And that was my big goal with this. I was like, the only way that we're gonna get Nate to really push forward and potentially put 100 hours into this JRPG is if I force the issue, you know, so that that was my patron pick for that reason.
• 1:04:34
  And to be fair, you had originally, like, picked, like, p three, p or fess. I can't remember which one, but I was. I fully intended to play it, but when the. The rumored remaster sort of was announced, I think at that point, it made the onboarding. Like, it was like I was going to just play it regardless, but this definitely, like, made it a lot easier for me to, like, I'm pretty sure.
• 1:05:00
  Like, I made my pick, and then a month later, they announced the remake, and I'm like, hey, guys, do we want to wait on this right now?
• 1:05:07
  Put this off? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:09
  So this is actually technically my pick for last year, I think for Persona three portable. And then it's just like, oh, well, this is coming out in February of next year. Okay, let's focus on that. So, you know, I knew that Nate would find something special because, you know, he's played four, he's played five, and, you know, this game holds a really high place in your listening as well, Josh. I was like, okay, come on, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's get it going. So that's why I picked it.
• 1:05:34
  I love it. I love it. Awesome. Well, that. That makes me happy, cuz. Yeah. Like you said, it's probably the only way that Nate would have played this game, and it's one that I've loved for. For quite a long time. I remember playing the original, or at least fess. I remember playing it on PlayStation because I've got a PS three that can play PS two games, and I remember playing it on that right after my son was born. So that was, you know, coming up on nine years ago, which is kind of crazy. So. And I hadn't played it since, but it did definitely leave a mark on me. You know, it's. It's very. It's a very memorable game. And I have watched through the anime a couple times since then because that's fun, but, yeah, glad to play it again.
• 1:06:19
  I think something to sort of note about this game is that it really does just sort of even going forward, like, because I. I don't know if either one of you had ever played per Persona two.
• 1:06:31
  Nope.
• 1:06:33
  A bit. A little bit.
• 1:06:35
  I played, yeah, I probably was about halfway through because it was apparently, like, two discs or like, there were two parts or whatever. And we. For the longest time, we only had, like, part one in the states. And I got about halfway through it, and I thought it was really interesting. But it was. And there were some things. There was, like, a rumor system that I remember or whatever, but there. It wasn't really, I would say, like, what we know about Persona now, like, Persona four and Persona five are way more heavily influenced by Persona three, and it's sort of form, then they are like, Persona two. And I think. So it established the template for what we know now and what we sort of wrestle with when we wrestle with those games. And I think that's pretty interesting. And just for that reason alone, I did sort of want to go back, because I have not gotten the good ending in Persona four. And, of course, we've talked about Persona five, you know, on this podcast. So I did. This was sort of, like a bit of a blind spot for me, and I had heard that this, like, everybody, you know, including you guys, is like, everybody who's played this is like, no, this is the best one. So. And, you know, as a bit of a, like, sort of, like, you know, kind of get. I would agree with that. I would agree with that. You know, like, just my. Sort of, like, my 10,000 foot view. Right. Is. I think that there are some things that form five do a little bit better.
• 1:08:28
  Sure. Yeah.
• 1:08:30
  Yeah. Because it's. It's. But it's mostly quality of life stuff, and frankly. So there are a couple things just. I'll give the pros and the cons. You know, I think this is the best one. I think, thematically, it's the punchiest. I think it has the best cast. I think, like, let's just be honest, the music for every. For three, four, and five, it's all good. It's all great. Like, the. The music for these games is just, like, it's all s tier, so I think. I think the. And I frankly, I actually like that three isn't as messy as form five. Like, there is. There is now. And granted, you know, and I've said this before, and I'll just sort of lay it out again. Full disclosure, I used. There was a power picks trophy guide, 100% trophy guide, and I use that to get the platinum on it. This sort of, like. And it just. It kind of just said, like, hey, here's, like, you want to sort of optimize your path and see everything that the game has to show you. Like, it was spoiler free, but it just said, this is, like, these are. This is what you're gonna do. And I just followed that, and it kind of, like, walked me through it, and I found that to be actually really kind of refreshing, but even. Even in comparison to that, because there's all these different social links. There's all the different, like, you know, there's the. The three stats that you can sort of manipulate. Was it academics, charm, encourage, courage, encourage. Yeah, and so, like, there's the different activities and I just, you know, it's a. It's a little simplistic. It's. But I frankly, I kind of like that. I think four and five with the different social and trying to balance all of that stuff, it gets, like, a little too messy and a little too cumbersome. And so I liked. I actually liked the fact that it was kind of, like, scaled back. I did like that. The one thing, and this is just a criticism that I think I have of the form, is that, frankly, these games overstay their welcome by about 20 to 30 hours. Every single time I got to the end of the game, I got to the end game and I just. I wasn't quite as powerful enough as I needed to be. And Tartarus sucks. Like, Tartarus is just. It is a bag full of wet farts. It is just. Especially at the end there. Like, I didn't mind it for a long time, but then there was just a point where I was like, this is awful. And I think that's one of the things that four and five both very clearly do better, is just they have, like, sort of an interesting, you know, level philosophy. Like, each. Each stage four is sort of like half four, and it makes sense. Four is like halfway between where they ended up going with m five still having some of, like, you know, the.
• 1:11:48
  Grindiness of three and the procedurally generated layouts.
• 1:11:52
  Yeah. And I didn't hate it, but I think. I think they would have been better. And this is just sort of like, this is armchair, like, sort of like, like playing armchair developer. I honestly think that if they would have thrown in some interesting set pieces and maybe had, like, every so many floors instead of just like, oh, here's. Here's like an extra hard boss fight. If there would have been, like, just say, like, ten levels, that would have just been, like, had like, a dedicated map, you know, and wouldn't have to be huge, but, like, sort of a more. I think that would have gone a long way. But overall, the game's like, it's a nine out of ten. It's. It's s tier, and it is. I think it is the best Persona.
• 1:12:36
  Yeah, well, if you don't mind me just kind of butting in, I think it would be helpful, too, just for anyone who hasn't played this game or hasn't even heard of the series Persona. The Persona series itself, you mentioned that. Well, obviously this is the third game in the series, but you mentioned that you played two as well. The first one came out on PlayStation forever ago. The Persona series is a spin off of the Shin Megami Tensei series. It's tangentially related in that it uses some of the same enemies, basically, as that series. But outside of that, it's a standalone series. It's also a standalone game. There's no, you don't have to play earlier games in the series or later games in the series. There are references to other games, but that's the extent of the connection. It's more like a Final Fantasy game where you can pick it up wherever you want to. But Persona three, and we've alluded to it, but it originally came out on PlayStation two. It came out in 2006 in Japan. And I think that's really important to remember as we talk about this game, is that we're talking about reload in particular today, which just came out this year in 2024. But that is a kind of newer coat of paint, a reworking of a game that is almost 20 years old at this point. And so it does carry over a lot of sensibilities from that time. In fact, Nate, you mentioned that this one is kind of what they built. Persona four and Persona five on it.
• 1:14:11
  Laid the groundwork for both of those games.
• 1:14:14
  Right. So it's amazing to me, actually, how well done it is in so many areas because, yes, like you said, it's a little clunky, but the fact that this was their, like, foray into this style of game, which was absolutely not common at the time. I mean, in some ways, I think it's groundbreaking where half the game is this social element people sometimes refer it to as a dating Sim, which, I mean, yes, dating is. Is there. If you want to romance a character, you can. And then you can have a few lines of dialogue that are different, but it's not like dating Sim just sounds really stinking weird, and it's not that. Well, but it is very.
• 1:14:58
  It's a bit reductive. Yeah. Yes.
• 1:15:00
  Yeah.
• 1:15:01
  But it is very, like all of the social, like the social management sort of like, interaction stuff is very visual novel esque. And a lot of those do tend to be sort of like romance stories.
• 1:15:17
  Yes. Yes, actually. Yeah, I think that's a much better way to put it, is more like a visual novel, is what your daytime stuff is doing, but then it's also combined with this other element of dungeon crawling. And we don't have to get into it right now because I'm just trying to lay the groundwork for anyone who doesn't even know what Persona is. But I think that's also where this disconnect or this dislike of Tartarus also comes from, is you have to put yourself back in 2006 and think of this game as if it were a dungeon crawler, which is where SMT came from, the original series. And I think that actually plays a lot into the decisions that they made with some of the things in this game. Whereas the newer games are not dungeon crawlers, there are very specific dungeons where four is pretty.
• 1:16:12
  But four is also significantly older, too, but four is pretty close.
• 1:16:21
  Yeah. Anyways, that was just kind of my rant on. Hopefully that helped you explain a little bit of where we're coming, because I think a lot of where we're going with this, we're kind of building off of now that you know what type of game this is. There's a lot to say about this one in particular.
• 1:16:39
  Yeah. I think just to sort of clarify how I would describe it, I would say it's equal parts turn based JRPG and visual novel set set in a jungian, you know, kind of cosmology.
• 1:16:58
  Yeah, yeah. All kinds of craziness going on. Yeah, for sure. All right. And with that, Wes, where would you like to take us from here? Talking about the game. Do you have any questions or. Or things to discuss to start us off?
• 1:17:12
  Oh, goodness. Hard to say. I don't know. There's a lot of different ways could go, and we've already squashed a conversation earlier, so we're not going to go there. But I think what's really important with this game is the fact that it's, well, it's very much unlike the two Personas that come after it, for sure. And this one feels a lot more sober in some ways. Like, it's still a funny game. Like, there's still a lot of good humor and comedic situations and whatnot, but it feels like this game tries to take itself a little bit more seriously, which I think is partially due to the fact that it's basically the bridge between, like, you know, old Persona and modern Persona, and it still has some of the stuff from, like one and two that it's still kind of holding on a bit there. And I think I was just gonna.
• 1:18:02
  Say, I think, yeah, maybe you're getting there and I'm sort of, like, sort of cutting you off at the pass, but I think it's just thematically, it's just heavier. Like, you know, and, you know, and I guess, you know, if you're still listening at this point in time to the episode, we're probably just gonna talk about spoilers. Like, we'll. Like, we'll try to give little bits of heads up, but, like, you know, unfortunately, like, play. You know, you should probably play the game. I think. I think all three of us would make no bones. Like, if you're listening this episode and you're have any interest at all in playing the game, go play the game. The rest of this episode will be waiting for you when you're done.
• 1:18:48
  Like, yeah. The only thing I'd add. Yes. This. This is one of my favorite games. I really like this one. And even kind of replaying and rethinking about these things, it's resounding. Yeah. I really like this game. I would say it's rated m. So just be. Be wary of that. Not that there is a lot of sexual content.
• 1:19:11
  I don't think there's really all that much. I just think it's heavy, and there's a lot of violence.
• 1:19:17
  Right, right. And if your conscience does not allow you to play a Shin Megami tensei game, there are some similar themes in this, as well, simply because now the enemies in this are not called demons like they are in Shin Megami tensei. Um, however, there is some sacrilegious imagery. I'll put it that way. Um, you're using different characters, and if that goes against your. Your conscience, like, just. Just be wary of that. I want to throw that out before we go into full on spoilers. Um, yes, we would all recommend this game, but you do have to recognize it's rated m. It's heavy. It is. It is violent. And that violence, I think, serves a very good purpose. It is ultimately redemptive. I don't think that's. Maybe that's a spoiler, but take that as you will. But there are elements to this. Yeah. That are just heavy and that you have to go in sober mindedly.
• 1:20:23
  You have to go in with your eyes open.
• 1:20:26
  Yeah. So, from this point out. Yeah. Now we can discuss any spoilers that we want to. And now that we have both cut wes off. Uh, let's.
• 1:20:35
  Let's let him talk again.
• 1:20:37
  Yes.
• 1:20:37
  Typical day in the classroom.
• 1:20:39
  Honestly, I feel like I'm back with my children.
• 1:20:42
  Uh, I know, I know. So, I think bridge.
• 1:20:47
  Yeah.
• 1:20:47
  Yeah, a bridge. A bridge. Yes. Absolutely. Okay. I think Nate actually hit the exact right term on the head with it being, like, more thematically oriented towards, like, I think death. Like, you really just can't, you know, cut it either way. Like, this game is about death. And I can't remember if it was even in, like, the opening movie in this game because I only watched it once and I didn't really like the song that much, so I kind of skipped it a little bit. But in the original opening with the one, like, absolute classic song called burn my dread. Oh, that song is amazing. It's so fantastic. If you haven't heard it, Nate, you really got to listen to it. Well, you must have heard it because it was in the last battle, but. Yeah. And the Latin was popping up, you know, just randomly, you know, as things did in the early two thousands. And anime, you know, a bunch of latin words and biblical references and everything. But it has this one particular phrase called memento mori. And that is a latin phrase that basically, remember your death. Remember, yes. Remember you will die. Keep it in mind. Understand what that is. So I think this game really, right off the bat, does a good job showing you this because, you know, you're introduced to this main character and he's just kind of thrown into it. He's getting off the subway station, but then all of a sudden, what does he see? He sees, like, you know, everything has a green and dark tint to it. He's seeing coffins, like, all out in the city. He's seeing blood, like, just lakes and rivers of blood everywhere. And it's just like, whoa, what's going on here? It's like you can't look at this type of imagery and not think about that sort of thing. It's like, this is death. Like, death is, in a sense, personified all around you. Well, not really personified, but, you know, the imagery of death is everywhere around you. And what this game does, it is it struggles with that because, you know, that that's what the dark hour is. It's a, you know, an hour. A lost hour at after midnight, basically. Or is it during midnight? Yeah, it's like a. An hour during midnight.
• 1:22:42
  And there's this hour that sort of gets, like, lost.
• 1:22:46
  And only those who are, like, attuned to their Personas can actually experience this. And this is when the shadows attack people and give them despair, pretty much. And, gosh, it's just like, you know, these characters are battling basically, like, you know, the personifications of, like, death and destruction and despair and depression every single night. And, you know, it's a little bit heavy handed. Not. Not gonna lie. Like, the imagery. It's like you don't have to be a college, you know, professor to understand it, but that's, well, kind of woven through all out the entire game. And, I don't know, it feels more sober minded because of that.
• 1:23:22
  Well, there isn't a. And I think, like, what's so sort of interesting about it, Wes and I. And I realize I cut you off again, is that.
• 1:23:33
  No, please cut me off. It's okay. It's all right.
• 1:23:35
  Okay.
• 1:23:36
  That's how we get into that.
• 1:23:37
  You talk about how it's interwoven throughout everything. It's like each character is in some way, shape, or form, like, just in humanity, we're informed by death, whether it's the threat of death or it's the result of death. It's kind of like if you look at all of the characters in the playable party, each one of them is in some way, shape, or form defined by a death that happened near them or, you know, or will happen or will happen. And if you look at all the different social link characters, it's all about sort of like, struggling with the death of a loved one, coming in terms with your own death. I would even say the. The little girl, it's the. The death of a marriage, you know, where, like, you know, and again, you know, sort of a spoiler here, but, like, her parents are getting a divorce, and part of, like, your whole social link scenario is her navigating that and trying, like, trying to prevent that. And it's. It's. I just think it's, you know, and each one of these characters is informed. I mean, you know, I can't think of a single. A single social link that didn't have. Wasn't sort of wrestling with, you know, death in some, like. And what that means for their existence, whether it's like, again, the. The loss of a loved one, their own sort of impending demise, sort of like, just all of it.
• 1:25:31
  Well, there is one in particular that I think actually stands out as a bit of a black sheep among the group. And correct me if I'm wrong, but, Junpei, is there anything in his backstory that talks about a death? Because I was trying to think about it.
• 1:25:46
  No.
• 1:25:46
  I don't think he's impacted by anything in the past, and I think that informs his characterization, because he is more of a silly character. He is the comic relief, and it's only when he comes face to face with an impending death where he really.
• 1:25:59
  Starts to change and, yeah, I think, though, too, like, and it's. It's not as emphasized, but I think, like, you know, there was the whole. With him, I think one of the things you could say is, like, one of the big ties. Okay, so there's. Yeah, there's definitely, like, the chidori arc, but I would also say, and he hints at it, but, like, he had this dream to become a baseball player, and it just, like, you know, and so, in a way, like, with him, his character is probably, like, a bit of an examination of what happens when your dreams die and they die in a way that kind of, like, crushes you. And, like, he just kind of resorts to being a bit of a clown and kind of a jack wagon, you know? And it isn't until, you know, it isn't until, like, again, sort of like, the chidori arc sort of works its a. Its way through. Through the game, which. But, yeah, it's. So I. You know, I think you're right. The most prominent sort of, like, part or sort of, like thing that actually, like, hits him is. Is something that unfolds during the course of the game. But I also think, like. Like I said, he is sort of informed by that. Sort of like the death of a dream. Whether it's really good.
• 1:27:23
  I never even thought about that, actually. That's. It's quite good. Well, it's got layers. Like an ogre.
• 1:27:29
  Yeah, I do. I do think. And I think that's. That's the thing, is, like. And maybe it's. It's. It's kind of like low hanging fruit because it's like. But I do think, like, you. You just. Just like death in so many ways for the world is an inevitability. Like, it is sort of. It saturates all of this game, and I think it does it in a really remarkable way. You know? And some of it's, yeah, a little heavy handed, but, um. But, yeah, so. And I think, like, frankly, that's why, like, thematically, just, you know, sort of. And again, comparing it to form v, that's why it's better than both of them, because it just. It's. Yes, there's levity and there's laughter and there's whatever, but there's also. It takes itself just the right amount of serious and, like, granted, there's. There is, like, you know, suspension of disbelief, you know, because it's a bunch of teenage. It's. It's a freaking anime. Like, you know, it's like, I made, like, we were talking about it earlier and I said, you know, we just played a hundred hours of anime and that's okay because it was good anime. Yeah.
• 1:28:43
  Yeah.
• 1:28:44
  But it's like, yeah, so there's a certain amount of ridiculousness, but I think it does the best job of, like, threading that needle. Whereas I think four and five, you know, if I had to say four is a little too light hearted and five is just like, five has some, like, serious, try hard energy. Like, the more I sit back and kind of look at it, it's like. It's like that dude, that just. It wants to be taken seriously, but it's. In the end, it's also kind of like laughable. How it's like. It's like a teenager just desperate to be taken seriously but not behaving in a way that merits being taken seriously.
• 1:29:26
  Well, I think it's interesting to think about that because vanilla Persona five definitely had that energy. And it took an entire remake plus adding like another 30 to 40 hours of gameplay to actually make that story make any sense. Versus Persona three, it's pretty much just perfect from the get out, you know, even on the PS two, you could play and get the same exact things.
• 1:29:44
  Yeah, the storyline is just. The storyline is complete.
• 1:29:52
  And about the story too, I think something that's unique to perhaps this style of game, but this game in particular, the way that it does it. So we talked about the different styles that the. That the game uses. That it uses this visual novel for half the game and then kind of a JRPG dungeon crawler for half the game as well. And so you have a main story that you're going through. You go day by day, you know, you have a calendar and things happen on certain days. And so you have your main story, but because you are also. There's this visual novel aspect to it. It is heavily weighted towards other character stories. And we mentioned it already how you have everyone in your party and they have their own stories, often with. Especially in video games, I think storytelling is done where you have a main character and then a party who comes around the main character who a lot of the times can tend to be pretty thin or all have the same exact motivations, maybe some different shades of similar motivations, but they all band together to accomplish a singular task. Whereas I think in this game you get a lot of individuality with the characters and because they are fleshed out a lot more because of the nature of the game. So gameplay wise, you are spending time with different characters and because of that, you get stat bonuses. It's easier to play the rest of the game if you spend more time with different characters. And so the gameplay goes hand in hand with the storytelling, and the storytelling is done in such a way that, like I said, there is a main story that's going on, but you have control over who you want to spend your time with and learn the stories that each of these characters are going through. So you have your main cast, which I think are very strong in and of themselves, but you also have ancillary characters that, again, give you kind of stat buffs and things like that through the mechanics of the game. But as you spend time with them as well, they have their own stories, and they're really only tangentially related to the main story. However, what I think this game does masterfully is that it uses that same theme. It's not quite as strong with all of the ancillary characters. Nate, you mentioned the girl Maiko, who her parents are getting a divorce. That one, my goodness, was powerful to me because you get it from the eyes of a child who's asking, is this my fault? You know, what should I do about this? Should I run away from home? Who's going through her own angst because her parents are always fighting and she wants to get out of the house. And you, as this high schooler, befriends her, which is a little weird.
• 1:32:47
  Regardless, what I think is something interesting, too, is it doesn't shy away from the weight.
• 1:32:53
  Yeah. Yeah. And. And as you said, it's not heavy handed, because I would. I would argue that she introduces you to another character who I think is probably my favorite, probably the best of the. The side characters in the game because it's so tragic. And that's a character who has cancer. And that that's, you know, we don't have to kind of get into it right now, but you have all these different stories that are going on. Some to greater and lesser degrees, are dealing with the inevitability of death, but also because death is inevitable, how do we then live? Right? Like, what do we actually live for? If we know that we are moving towards death, then what should we do with this life? And I think that's a really powerful question because you have some characters that are more along the lines, like you said, Nate, of the death of a dream or the death of a goal or I really want this, but it seems like the circumstances of my life are leading me in a different direction, and they have to grapple with that, of what am I going to do with my life. And most of them end up recognizing I'm not just living for myself and that actually I ought to invest in others. I ought to do the best that I can with the time that I have in enriching not just my life, but enriching others. And in so doing, I will be more fulfilled. And they make that tangible in a few of the stories, which is really powerful.
• 1:34:31
  I think you just summed up the whole game. I was like, okay, I had to chew on that, man.
• 1:34:37
  Yeah, he did a. I mean, yeah, I don't. I don't have anything to add there either. Like, that sort of just it. Like I said, I think it's masterful because they really just did thread that needle. There's a. There's a way where you could use, again, the same sort of, like, themes, and it just be obnoxious, you know? But they. They did it in a way that's, like, really kind of compelling and doesn't feel preachy, doesn't feel super forced or manufactured, but just. It feels like it's. It's got some real heart and which I think also, like, you know, lends a lot to the. It just the. The, you know, the. The believability, like the buy in, you know? And again, now. And I thought it might just be, like, pretty good to a pretty good idea, sort of looking at this. And, Wes, you had this in the notes, I think, as well, or maybe. But let's talk about some of the specific characters. Josh, you mentioned your favorite sort of side character in the game, and it was the young man that you meet who has cancer. And I would almost agree with you that it's probably one of the better ones. But towards the end of his, like, arc, it got really kind of dumb.
• 1:36:06
  Okay.
• 1:36:06
  Like, the story. Because, like, he wanted to write a story, and the story, it just, like. It just sounded kind of, I don't know.
• 1:36:22
  Like, okay, so it was very pretentious and weird and, like. So it's about this pink crocodile that doesn't have friends and can't hunt because it's a pink crocodile. What's going on here? And eventually, it cries enough to where it drowns in its own tears. So he's wrestling with how to finish the story. This young man who has cancer, he wants to be a writer, and he's wrestling with the story, and he's got this story about this pink crocodile. Okay, yes, that setup is ridiculous, but the way that he finally ends up finishing the story is that the crocodile cries and drowns in its own tears, but it cried so much that it created a river so that other animals could come to the river, like, basically creates this oasis so that other animals are nourished by its tears. And what he was saying is that my short life, I'm going to die of cancer. In fact, it's actually inferred that he's already dead. I'm going to die.
• 1:37:26
  Well, and that was the thing. It's like, it's not inferred. I think it is. They pretty much kind of hit you in the face with it because the final episode, and sort of like his arc, he just vanishes.
• 1:37:39
  Yeah.
• 1:37:40
  And it's like, nope, you were talking to a ghost, my guy.
• 1:37:44
  Right, right. But what he's saying with that story is that even though the crocodile in the story was not able to accomplish anything for himself, his life meant something to others, and that made his life worth living. So in the case of this young man with cancer, he's saying, I can't accomplish any of my goals. I can't do what I set out to do. I can't be the person that I want to be. And I don't understand the purpose of my life. And he's recognizing, but I provide, like my mom loves me, and maybe I'll just live for that. You know, it's the fact that others receive something from me being alive that makes my life worth living. Now, as a Christian like that, that's not. It's like I want to. There's something good there, but it's also. This is also somewhat empty in and of itself, but also, as a Christian, I recognize God's sovereignty over all things. And that, oh, that is ultimately very true, that God is working something even when I can't see it, even when my life seems like a total failure. It's a part of God's ultimate plan to bring something about. And I think. I think there's something beautiful about it that, again, I get it. It sounds very existentialist. And maybe that is just how. Maybe that was the purpose.
• 1:39:13
  Well, there's definitely an existentialist thread there.
• 1:39:16
  Yeah, yeah. But I do think there's also, especially as a Christian, there's something that you can take from that just to recognize that, like, oh, yeah, I might not ever accomplish my goals. I might get cancer and die. You know, my life might feel like a failure on paper. However, God is using it for something that I will never understand in this earthly veil, you know, which I think is. Yeah, I think that's really powerful and that's. That's why I liked it. I get it can come across as sappy and. But, yeah, I enjoyed it.
• 1:39:50
  Little. Little heavy handed, imprecious, but it's not bad. I just. I think I did kind of, like, just the end. Like, it was just like they could have. And I don't. I don't. I feel like he just, like, evaporated and maybe. Maybe I'm remembering this wrong, but, like, I feel like it would have been much stronger if, like, they would have just used cuts where he, like, he walked over and then sort of, like, the main character looks over and the camera cuts to that view and there's nothing there or something. I don't know. Like, there's just something about the execution that I felt left a little bit to be desired. Of course, I could be remembering it wrong because I do that sometimes.
• 1:40:33
  But wes, I definitely think going along with that, like, there are some areas of this game technically, that kind of fall apart a little bit because it is trying to remake a 2006 PS two game, and it's trying to be extremely faithful almost to a fault, in a lot of different areas. So, yeah, the presentation, I think, could have definitely done better. I definitely like that social link a lot. I feel like it kind of encapsulates the entire, really, the entire lesson of the game, to be perfectly honest, with the main character and everything. So, you know, but we can get to that.
• 1:41:06
  We can.
• 1:41:07
  But I definitely think one of the strongest moments, like, character wise and, you know, obviously we're spoilers, right? We're doing spoilers.
• 1:41:14
  Yes.
• 1:41:15
  Okay. Okay. As Shinra? No.
• 1:41:20
  Yeah. Shinjiro. Shinjiro?
• 1:41:22
  Yeah, I think. Is that his name? Okay. Oh, man, that boxer.
• 1:41:27
  No, Akihiko is a boxer. Shinjiro is the one.
• 1:41:30
  Oh, oh, the.
• 1:41:32
  Yes.
• 1:41:32
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:41:33
  His death in that game, like, you know, cuz. Cuz when I was playing it originally on the PlayStation Portable version and everything, I was playing it and I was. I probably drove Josh absolutely nuts because I gave him basically a play by play of literally everything I was doing in the game. When I got to that moment, I think all I did was I took a screenshot of that moment from, like, the PSP, like, screen capture, and I just sent it to you and you're just like, dude, I've been waiting for this moment the whole time.
• 1:42:02
  Yes. Because hit me like a truck, dude.
• 1:42:05
  It did. It did. And I just think that, like, the way they really set that up with, you know, you have Ken over here and he's new to the group and everything, and he's got a huge chip on his shoulder because, you know, his mom died. And then Akihiko, like, he's been with this group for a while and he knows exactly what happened. And then you have Shinjiro, who's been completely driven to despair because of it. Like, he just basically becomes a drunk. Like, just a hobbling drunk. That's just, like, basically eking out every little last minute that he has.
• 1:42:34
  Yeah. And when he finally joins, literally, on drugs.
• 1:42:37
  Yeah.
• 1:42:38
  To suppress his Persona.
• 1:42:39
  Yeah, to suppress the Persona, yeah, yeah.
• 1:42:43
  And then, like, when he finally, like, gives up on that and he joins the group and everything, and you see that confrontation between those two in particular, where Ken realizes, like, who's in his mind responsible for the death of his mother and Shinjiro, like, just accepting that, and he's just like, you know what? Maybe I'm not, like, the one responsible, but you know what? If you need to kill me, go for it. Like, that's fine. It's like, oh, that noble sacrifice just gets me every time.
• 1:43:10
  He also, though, understood, like, he was like, the thing that comes out is that he realized that he was living on borrowed time. That because of, like, the drug use and the suppression of his Persona, like, he was sort of, like, it was breaking his body down. And so it was just like, he was just kind of, like, going full steam until he just fell over. And I think the way that, like, he, because he ends up getting shot by, what is it? Dingleberry's name?
• 1:43:48
  Yeah, the leader of the death cult. I don't remember his name either, but he just sucked.
• 1:43:53
  Yeah, he sucks so much that I blotted his name out from memory. He was just, like, self important and whiny and then just, yeah, I did not.
• 1:44:07
  Takiya. Takaya. Takaya kayak.
• 1:44:11
  He sucked, but, you know, he pulls it.
• 1:44:13
  I mean, it's. Yes, I agree to all of that. But then you learn about their backstory, and it's like, ah, no wonder they're so messed up. Like they were experimenting.
• 1:44:24
  It's sort of like the other side of that, though, where it's like this self indulgent, like, yes. Were great wrongs done to them? Sure. But then they sort of, like, relish in sort of punishing everyone around them, right?
• 1:44:37
  Yeah.
• 1:44:37
  And it's like, no, no, it's like, it's like if you were going after the people who were responsible, like, that's one thing. But, like, the thing is like, you're just like, you know, it's like, I got hurt, and so now everybody else has to pay. And it's like, that's, like, that's always, like, the least compelling, sort of, like, villain arc where it's like, dude, it's. It's. You're just. You're just being a baby. Like, you're just being like, you got hurt and people did bad things to you. That does not justify you trying to burn the world down. Like, that just makes you a child. And unfortunately, like, you're a child with, like, nukes, you know, because, like, you're. You have this. This power, right? And then it's. Yeah, it's just like, I don't know, it's. I didn't. I didn't care for that different or the other organization because it just, like, it's realistic in the sense that, like, it makes a certain amount of sense. But I was just like, you know, I just don't. I don't appreciate that, like, that level of self righteousness, but, yeah, no, but just going like, the. I think I. I messaged you guys, or maybe, but, like, the. The funeral with Shinjiro. Like, Shinjiro's funeral was like, I think I might have been like, yo, like, some ninjas are cutting onions or something.
• 1:46:12
  And then I sent you that exact same screenshot, but from the reloaders. And I'm just like, yes. I've been waiting forever to post this.
• 1:46:19
  I got pretty misty because it was tough. And. And that's. That's the thing, too. It's like, it. They earned that.
• 1:46:29
  Like, yes. Yeah, there.
• 1:46:32
  There was a buy in, and I also just like, and I'm going to kind of, like, throw in a little bit of levity here. I was really bummed that after he left, the. Basically the only strike damage that you had, like, you had slash and pierce, and the only other strike damage that you had was akihiro or akihito or whatever. I was like, yo, that sucks.
• 1:46:59
  Could you imagine the people that probably did all that grinding to get him at a really high level?
• 1:47:05
  And then, dude, no kidding.
• 1:47:07
  No kidding. Yeah, well, and that was something that Final Fantasy Seven is really well known for. Taking a character in your party and then killing. Okay, but, you know, I hadn't experienced something like that, at least in a really long time, where there was actual, like, mechanical repercussions for the game. The game gave you a character in your party that you could use for a little while in the game. He just felt like another one of the cast members.
• 1:47:36
  He felt he filled a critical, like, a necessary role.
• 1:47:41
  Yeah, yeah. So I, you know, it's like, oh, the game's not gonna do that. You know, they're just gonna take him away. And sure enough, that's exactly what they did. And just something, again that I just love about that scene we talked about how, you know, he's basically kind of not giving up. Not giving up. But he accepts the fact that, okay, Ken wants to kill me, and I understand why. And he had been wracked with guilt about what had happened, you know, about the accidental death of Ken's mother, too. And so there's some form of, like, okay, like, go for, you know. Yeah. Just an acceptance that this is what he deserves. However, he also tells Ken, if you do this, you're not going to get the thing that you want. Right. This is not going to bring her back. Yes. Yes, that's it. You're not going to get satisfaction from killing me. And that frustrates Ken. And then to have the game, that enough would be a great scene. But then to have someone come out, in this case, it's Tokaya. I get it. You don't like him. I didn't like him either.
• 1:48:51
  But you're not supposed to like him.
• 1:48:53
  Right, right.
• 1:48:54
  He's the bad guy.
• 1:48:55
  I mean, speaking of sacrilegious. Yes. His entire is just something else. Extra. Very extra, as the kids say.
• 1:49:05
  Yeah, well, but then.
• 1:49:07
  So Takaya is gonna kill them both. And Shinjiro intercepts not only the bullet that was meant for him, but the bullet that was meant for Ken.
• 1:49:17
  For Ken. Yeah. So he ends up saving Ken's life, which is. Yeah, just such a cool picture, you know, that. That. And that, again, takes that same theme of death and uses it in so many ways because it affects Akihiko, it affects all of your, you know, of sees it affects Ken, but Ken especially. Right? Because now he's the recipient of. Of a death, a sacrificial death on his behalf. Right. And that ultimately affects him. And that, you know, not to make this too. Too weird, but that, like, washes away his need for revenge. Like, he recognizes that that is actually. It's more meaningful. So the ripple effect of that death is felt throughout the whole rest of the game, which is. Which is awesome. Until you get the next ripple effect of death at the very end of the game. But we can get to that when we get to that.
• 1:50:16
  I think I just. Since we're kind of tapping into party members, and it's a little simplistic, but I just loved one. I love Koramaro Kuriburi.
• 1:50:28
  Good boy.
• 1:50:36
  Oh, it's a not problem, but not problematic at all. What we just did, that's meme.
• 1:50:42
  A meme. Okay.
• 1:50:44
  Making my memes over here. Josh, you might get away with it. You present as maybe ambiguously asian, whereas Wes and I do nothing. But. But Koramaru's story, I just thought was really sweet, and it actually made the end of the game, like, a little more bitter.
• 1:51:22
  Okay.
• 1:51:22
  Because, like, part of, like, your arc with him is basically like, he's like, he becomes a. He becomes the main character's dog. Like, he was the dog of a local priest, a local Shinto priest. And when the priest died, the dog kind of, like, would hang around the. The temple to, like, fight spirits. And turns out the dog's a Persona user. It's. It's weird. Like, listen, it's an. It's a fucking anime, people.
• 1:51:48
  No, you mean it's awesome. It's not weird.
• 1:51:50
  It's also awesome.
• 1:51:51
  But look, also not so insane. Look, the dog can't talk. Okay? Is not that crazy. It's not absolutely insane. No, you just get a robot translates.
• 1:52:02
  For the dog can essentially speak dog.
• 1:52:06
  Yeah.
• 1:52:07
  At least it's not a bear turning into a pretty boy. Come on. At least we got that.
• 1:52:13
  Teddy. He's the worst. Just the worst. Him and Morgana both, they just.
• 1:52:18
  Or trash cats, which makes Koramaru so much cooler. I mean, he's already amazing, don't get me wrong. But even he's just in comparison to the other trash, I think he's like.
• 1:52:30
  An albino shiba inu.
• 1:52:33
  Yeah, I think so. And, like, a very stylized one.
• 1:52:38
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyways, he's just like a. And, like, sort of. And again, as you sort of experience his arc, and it's just like, there was that. That woman who wanted to, like, take him in, but he couldn't abandon the temple. And then, like, he. He basically becomes again, like. And I know it's like the house's dog, but, like, there's, like, exchanges that you have with a dog where it's like, the game basically tells you, like, koramaru is like, he's. He's basically your dog now. And then the game ends the way it does. And it's just like, I was like, oh, man. And granted, like, you know, he's gonna land on his feet because he's the goodest boy. But, like, I just, as, you know, what I will say is this. And it's just, like, sort of in playing that, like, I. You know, a couple years ago, we had to put down Nala and that destroyed me. Like, I I still kind of cry sometimes. Not. Not terribly, but over that dog. Like, she was just. She was a part of our family, and I. I'll probably. There always be, like, a little hole in sort of the. The essence of Nate McKeever that that dog used to fill. Um, you know, not to get too weird, but it's just, like, that storyline was just, like, so sweet and just, like, I don't know. It's the closest thing. I think it's what? Like, one of the closest things this game gets to being, like, really sappy. Like, really sappy. And I just ate it up. I didn't care.
• 1:54:16
  Sappy in the best way.
• 1:54:18
  Yeah. I was like. So I was just say, like, I think, like, his story, it's. It's not the most remarkable. It doesn't, like, have the most weight, but it was like, it just was like, oh, yeah, koramaro, best boy. But I think sort of, like, moving on. Like, we, you know, and we don't have to get too, too into the weeds as far as, like, plot. Like, obviously, we've talked about it, but, guys, the game is about death, and, you know, there's about halfway through the game, they introduce another character that I think we need to talk about, and I can't remember his name in that incarnation. You guys know who I'm talking, right?
• 1:55:03
  No, I don't know who you're talking.
• 1:55:05
  Scarf boy.
• 1:55:06
  Scarf Boyden. Oh, Ryuji.
• 1:55:09
  Ryoji. Yes. Or Ryuji. But he shows up, and he's sort of a transfer student, and you have this pretty short window with him. And so there's a little boy that visits you sort of, like, does. He's like, night visitations also, I thought, like, the prisoner get up. I really. Especially when, like, you compare that to Persona five was pretty cool. I'm just saying, like, you know, the little person, but this little boy, like, as you do sort of, like, missions through the, you know, doing the midnight hour kind of missions. Like, as you progress the storyline, this little boy will visit you and have conversations with you in the middle of the night. It's kind of weird, very cryptic.
• 1:56:00
  And he visits after each full moon, I think. Right. Is it after?
• 1:56:04
  Well, after. After basically, each boss encounter.
• 1:56:07
  Yeah.
• 1:56:09
  And then you hit a point in the game where basically, like, so you're basically fighting. What you realize pretty quickly is that you're fighting your way through the arcana, and then when you fight the final one, the little boy disappears, and this character, Ryoji or Ryuji, pops in and you can't, you. You have some interactions with him, but you don't really have any social links with him. And then it turns out that there's this whole incident that he's basically, he is the Persona of death. He is the arcana of death, and he was trapped there by a robot. He was like, you.
• 1:56:55
  It gets a little weird.
• 1:56:57
  It gets super weird. Like, this is why explaining the storyline of this game is not great. Like, it's, it's okay to, I think, talk about the themes, but, like, giving, like, an actual, like, story. Like, blow by blow is going to be an exercise not in futility, but it's, it's just going to be difficult. But turns out, like, there was this big battle between the, the arcana of, like, this, you know, death Thanados and this robot, I guess, who ends up becoming part of your character or part of your party as well. And she's, she's a girl robot. She's a cute little teenage girl robot that has gun hands. And I just, I don't know how much.
• 1:57:44
  With guns.
• 1:57:45
  Yeah, like, it's. It's, it's super. Like, if. Yeah, it's super american. But anyways, she is fighting him and she, like, apparently he wasn't, like, in his full power or whatever, and she realizes that basically she can, like, the only way that she can stop him is by sealing him. And she ends up using the main character as sort of a prison who, like, I think the kid was in some sort of accident or whatever, and. But she basically imprisons death into the main character. And then after you defeat all the Arcana, which is, like, the halfway point of the game, you actually unleash him. And he spends some time, like, hanging out with you guys. And it turns out that actually he's like the Herald of Knicks or something like that. They use a different term, but like, that basically through him becoming fully realized by sort of. So each one of those, like, Arcana bosses that you were fighting were unlocking more pieces of him or restoring more of his power. And when he's fully empowered, then it just sort of starts this, like, countdown till the end of time because basically, like, Nyx is the ultimate death. Like, it's going to, like, kill everything. And the game gets really, like, the, the game. It's. It's an anime game. It just, it's an, it's a freaking anime. Um, but again, it does a sort of a masterful job weaving all of the, the different threads. And yes, you do have to fight and kill death, which I'm.
• 1:59:31
  Except that. Well, are you talking about thanatos? Because that's. That's different. But if you're talking about Nix, you don't actually beat death or you don't. You don't kill death.
• 1:59:43
  You.
• 1:59:43
  That's.
• 1:59:44
  Yeah, well, you, you forestall like the inevitable death of everything or whatever. You seal it away.
• 1:59:52
  Right. That. That's exactly what happens. Yeah. So, so, yeah, the final boss is this, is this nix, you know, this personification of death come to the. The world to effect, you know, destroy all, all living things. And what's crazy is in the game, like, leading up to that, people are, like, going crazy. Some people just succumb to despair. There's the rise of this death cult. People are not walking the streets like they used to. Even just the areas you're going through are more desolate.
• 2:00:24
  They will show NPC's just kind of hanging out, but they look all spaced out just standing around.
• 2:00:31
  Yeah.
• 2:00:32
  Like, not doing anything. Just, it's. And not like typical NPC fashion, like where it's like there's like, NPC's that like, look like they have the animation of the. They just, they literally, they're kind of like this. Like they're like zombies just standing there.
• 2:00:50
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:00:52
  They have the apathy syndrome.
• 2:00:54
  Right, right. So at the very end of the game, yeah, there's the final boss. It's an awesome boss battle. We don't have to necessarily go through it if we don't want to, but it's this cool multi phase battle.
• 2:01:07
  Well, the longest freaking battle in the world.
• 2:01:10
  It is very long.
• 2:01:13
  Yeah.
• 2:01:15
  It is very, very long.
• 2:01:19
  There are 14 different phases, basically. You basically go through all the arcana.
• 2:01:23
  You go through all the arcana again. Yeah. And each time you sort of beat one, he sort of adds to his repertoire and he gets.
• 2:01:32
  Changes his weaknesses every single time. Every single time.
• 2:01:37
  Yeah.
• 2:01:37
  So I don't know. So one of the big differences that I experienced playing reload versus playing fess is that reload is considerably easier. So I don't know how hard this final boss was because I didn't, I didn't get up to it. My ps four died on me, so I didn't get to finish reload. I actually wasn't too far in only a couple dozen hours. But that said, I know at least in fesse it was not only a long but a difficult battle. And there were points at which the boss would heal herself, like, 9999 heal herself. And it's just like, are you kidding me? So not only is it 14 different forms? But then it would heal and yeah, you kind of have to go back to square one. And the original fest version, you couldn't control your party members directly, so it could be a frustrating battle. And I distinctly recall feeling like I was hanging on by a thread when I finally beat it. But it was fun. It was fun.
• 2:02:38
  That actually sort of brings to mind we did take some comments and questions from some of our listeners and friend of the show, Jono, I think, said a couple of things that could kind of weigh in and just to sort of echo your thought, uh, nothing regarding this version in sort of regards to Persona three reloaded, but he said, I did. I, and I'm paraphrasing a little bit, I did think it was a great choice that the original slash fest versions prevented you from directly controlling your teammates. It helps sell the idea that you're their commander and fellow comrade, and you need to trust their judgment and work around their quirks. It also makes the team feel less reliant on the MC. Persona three's cast seem like they all had their own motivation for being on SES or C's and their own schedules, as opposed to revolving around the main character as in the other two games. In theory, I get what you guys are saying, but also that AI probably was real dumb. Like you. You told me, Josh, like how Mitsuru, your favorite, how she just kept casting Marin Karen on characters.
• 2:03:52
  That's her one flaw, Nate. Her only flaw ever.
• 2:03:55
  That's pretty. Like, oh, she. So she's just going to rely on charm to get through situations. That's a fairly significant flaw here, boys. But I did think that was pretty. It was pretty relevant to some of that.
• 2:04:15
  Well into that point, I do think it does take something away. Now, mechanically, it is less frustrating. It is a quality of life point at which that you can control your characters, but in fess, you could at least give orders, so you could say generally how others ought to.
• 2:04:37
  I think I like that, and I kind of want to check that out because I like that idea. I think it's probably like garbage execution.
• 2:04:46
  But I think there's a middle ground that they could have met in the middle, because before I get to my kind of answer to it, if you put yourself back in 2006, okay, it's not that. Aren't jrpgs. Oh, you traditionally just can't control your characters. This was a deliberate decision made by the creators of original Persona three that you could not directly control your characters. And I think that is important. Just like Jono Spark was talking about is that I think it emphasizes the individuality of each of the characters. I think also the difficulty difference between reload and Fess gives you more of a sense of dread when you go in Tartarus, when you're playing Fess, than you do in Reload. I never felt like death had much of a. I did a few times.
• 2:05:39
  Reload is a power fantasy.
• 2:05:41
  Yeah. Yes, yes. Whereas fast did not feel that way through a majority of the game. So I think in a similar way, just following the themes that this game has, I think the individuality of the characters as told through the mechanics in fess, it bolsters the themes throughout this game. What I think they should have done, and this is me armchair, like, maybe this wouldn't have sold as many copies, but I think as you gain, I think the characters, you should not have been able to directly control them when you first just have them in your party. I think as you gain more social links with those characters and get to know them, I think to signify the trust that they have in you as the leader, then they would allow you to control them more and give them more different kinds of tactics so that maybe by social link seven or eight, then you can fully control them. I think that would marry that. The mechanics of the game with. With the theme that they are individual characters that are scared teenagers because the world is going to hell, you know, like, what is going on here? And you feel that more with fess. So that's my two cent.
• 2:06:59
  That's actually, like, a really great compromise. Like, as soon as you started, like, going down, that I was like, nope. That. That I think is the right call is like, that, you know? And just even having, like, maybe the characters, like, get a little smarter. Like, have them be a little more adaptive.
• 2:07:19
  Sure.
• 2:07:19
  That. Yeah, yeah, because, like, listen, all I'm gonna say is, like, you guys, like, and it's. But it's, like, having a character cast charm, like, just as a bit of a gripe, I just really was frustrated by the fact that, like, there were these. All these different status effects. And even though I would agree that, like, Persona three reload does not feel like a really hard game now, I just played on normal.
• 2:07:50
  I totally agree. Yeah.
• 2:07:53
  Like, it feels. But, like, even on normal, it's like, I don't know that I ever had a status effect go through now. I was afflicted by plenty of status effects, and it's. They're so useless for you as a player that you are better off abandoning them now. Like, stat debuffs and things like that. Yeah, like, go ahead. Yeah, but, like, Marin, Karen. Like, I forget what. But, like, the confused, the charms, all that stuff. Like, I don't think that I ever had that work.
• 2:08:28
  Like, I had Yukari had a bow that could freeze enemies also, and that was really helpful.
• 2:08:34
  Well, no, like, I'm, like, I'm not talking about physical status is. I'm talking about, like, the charms and the confuse and the dread and the different, like, mental or emotional status effects. Like, it never worked on shadows, but they were extremely effective on me. Yeah. Which was infuriating.
• 2:08:58
  Very much the same experience. Yeah. But I would also just say, yeah, this game is generally way, way easier even than. And easier than even the PSP version, honestly. Like, and you had direct control of your characters in that one, too. But I felt like it balanced out things a little bit better in that version, whereas this one, I think, is more, like, they really, like, lowered the bar in terms of difficulty. So I would say that's, like, one of the biggest drawbacks.
• 2:09:25
  I mean, I imagine if you turned it up to, like, hard, it would probably punish you. Like, Josh, if you want to. If you want to get good and you ever play this game again, you can just turn it up to hard and just punish yourself that way if that's what you really want. I mean, you might even go to, like, whatever the next hardest thing is.
• 2:09:44
  Merciless, I think, is, like, the most that I've heard in this one. And you're right. Yeah. I was only playing on normal. That's true. But there were also some other things. So originally in fess, even when you go into Tartarus. Cause it's supposed to happen during the midnight hour in the game. And so your characters eventually get tired in fess, which was frustrating because you would have to leave. Like, they would do much worse in battle. And then whenever you went to the bottom of the. Of Tartarus, they would just not be available in your party anymore. They'd have to sleep, and. And they took that away for reload, which, on the one hand, it was a frustrating mechanic in fess, but as it's taken away now, you can just, like, blast through Tartarus in a single night, which there was no way you were getting through all of a section of Tartarus in a single night in fess. Like, no way. I mean, minimum three or four nights. Like. Like, it was just not a possibility. And so the healing was harder to come. You know, things like that, that change a lot more about the game. Even though I understand why they were trying to make it more appealing to newcomers, making it quality of life, those types of things make it so that you don't get so frustrated when the enemy casts mudo on your main character and you die and you get a game over out of nowhere. I totally understand why you do that. But it does take away just from, again, that sense of dread. And I think that goes to even just how dungeon crawlers felt in 2005, 2006. You know, of like you don't know what's going to happen when you go into this dungeon. Whereas like you said Nate, this one feels more like a power fantasy a la Persona five and then four is kind of the midway, I would say in there. But but five, I think, felt a lot like a power fantasy as well. So. But you know, even in saying all that, because I do have some gripes. Those gripes in particular, other mechanics like theurgy and stuff like that. That make the game easier as well. Even with all those in place, I would not I would not be a purist and say, you have to go play fess. I would say that fess the story is stronger because the themes play through the mechanics better.
• 2:12:11
  But I also understand it's more holistically coherent.
• 2:12:14
  Yes.
• 2:12:15
  Is that all the pieces play well with each other. Like where it's like. And that's that's pretty uncommon in games. There's always there's always some, like, disconnect some. What is the Ludal. Auditory Ludo narrative? This. Yeah, well, and I'm saying like what I was saying is like there's always some sort of like because the game is interactive. There's always some sort of breaking between the sort of the way that you interact with the game and the thing that the game is is trying to tell you or save you. Um, you know, there are some games that do it better than others. But like that actually like that that kind of makes me want to go back and play fez and just see what happens and get frustrated.
• 2:12:59
  No, I'm kidding.
• 2:12:59
  That. But I would also need to one, my PS three would have to still work.
• 2:13:07
  Yeah.
• 2:13:08
  Because I think I had it digitally. And I would have to hook that back up, which is not happening anytime soon.
• 2:13:15
  You'd also have to just burn your dread of having to play it again.
• 2:13:19
  I think actually the PS two version might be available on my PSP as well. I'd have to look that up. Not that version or my Vita.
• 2:13:34
  Unfortunately not. It's just the portable version.
• 2:13:38
  Well, that's lame.
• 2:13:40
  It is the lamest thing I've ever heard.
• 2:13:42
  Terrible. Like, yeah, it's just, like, I think for all of the hassle, it's. I'm not saying it's outside the realm of possibility, but it's not very likely that, like, I. Yeah, so, yeah, I'm just saying, like, I do find this compelling. I also sort of hand wave it away where it's like, listen, ain't nobody got time for that.
• 2:14:04
  Right, right.
• 2:14:06
  And this is exactly why. This is exactly why I had to choose this version for the Patriots.
• 2:14:12
  Yes. Yeah, exactly. And so, for anyone listening, like, I would. I would recommend that you play this game. You know? Like, even though I think that fess does some things better overall, and I prefer to someone who played it then, do I want to play it now? You know? Like, I don't. I don't know. I would not say, don't play, reload and go play fest. Like, no, if you. If you have the ability to play, reload, then play. It's still a really good game. I think there are some things that it doesn't do as well, but it's still good. It did not destroy the essence of this game, even if it took away from some of that. Again, I've been using this word, that dread that you feel throughout the uneasiness that you have throughout this game, because I think something we mentioned earlier is that, yes, the game is melodramatic, but it doesn't go over and. And go into that. That real edgy feel. You know, it doesn't feel like a 13 year old. Oh, yeah. Wallowing death and gore and blood.
• 2:15:16
  It's not like, you know, trying to shoot Satan right in the face or anything like that. That would just be over the top if any game tried to do that.
• 2:15:23
  It doesn't. It doesn't glory in the weight in an unhealthy way. Yeah. It just lets the heavy be heavy. Lets the. The difficult thing be difficult. And it kind of. In some ways, it doesn't coddle the player emotionally. It just says, like, nope, this is gonna suck. Sorry.
• 2:15:43
  Yeah.
• 2:15:44
  And, I mean, you have. I think you have to respect that. And I think that, like I said, it just, you know, one of the things, like I said sort of at the top, and I've said leading up to this recording is that it is. It is my favorite Persona at this point in time. Like, and I think it's like the one where it's like, if you're gonna play any of them, play this one, because the other two are in some ways, like qualitatively better, but they're also like, frankly, a little weaker.
• 2:16:17
  Definitely in the story aspect, that's for sure.
• 2:16:20
  Yeah. And so, but, you know, Wes, I saw in the notes that you had this question posed or maybe that was. Maybe this was. Josh, I don't want to attribute this to the wrong, but it's like asking the question, is this worth your time? Why? And I would just say, well, um, it could be. And I think, like, if you have a desire, like if you like JRPGs and you're looking for some. Something substantial and meaty, it's definitely worth your time. I do believe that. Again, I just maintain, like, listen, at a b I played, I put in over 100 hours on this game and I got the platinum.
• 2:17:02
  That's right.
• 2:17:03
  That's more than me.
• 2:17:04
  And that's with. That's with a guide. That's with a spoiler free guide, you know, because, like. And there was. There was a lot of hours of just grinding because I needed to be at certain levels to get all of the things done. You know, the only thing is. And I'll sort of touch on a couple things here and then I actually, we have a couple of listener questions that I thought we could just sort of like do quick fire and we could respond to that way. But Jono again brought up something just that we talked about, like, in a way, like you. The point of the game is to defeat death. And so there's an ultimate Persona that you can craft if you get to the. If you fulfill all the requirements. And it is a blending of your original default Persona, which is it Orpheus. And then you meet Thanatos, which is interesting because Orpheus, if I remember correctly, couldn't die. He was like a demigod or something like that. Um, and like, they cut off his head and they used it as an oracle. Um, I could be.
• 2:18:23
  Is that what it was? He was the one with the. The, uh, loot. I believe he was. You know, his girlfriend had died.
• 2:18:31
  He descended into Hades to get his girlfriend and.
• 2:18:34
  Yeah.
• 2:18:35
  And then he looked back. That's what it was. I was thinking about the way that they used him in the Sandman comics and actually, like, he couldn't die, but apparently, like he just got his, like his head removed and he just. Anyways, it's.
• 2:18:52
  Kappa was detained from his head.
• 2:18:54
  Yeah, but it's terrible. I don't know why I'm laughing at that, but what I will say is that. And then you blend that. You, you. But you have to. You also have to fulfill all this different criteria, you fuse that with Thanatos, which is, again, the ultimate death Persona. It's like the initial primary antagonist, and you fuse those.
• 2:19:22
  It's basically the reaper is what it is. They're both death. Then Thanatos is the reaper.
• 2:19:30
  Yeah. And your ultimate Persona is called Messiah. And it's sort of like. It's the implications. It's sort of like defeating death. They're playing into some messianic sort of like, things. It's technically, it could be considered a second commandment violation. And it's just like, I think it's something to do. We think the game is worth it. Yes. But by nature of the worldview of this game, and again, I brought up the fact that it's a jungian cosmology. There's basically, there's some blasphemous elements in here. Like, it plays with. It treats all religions as sort of mythologies to be equally drawn from.
• 2:20:20
  Right.
• 2:20:21
  There are also. And because it is mature, there are some, like, Mara makes an appearance.
• 2:20:29
  I forgot about that.
• 2:20:31
  Yeah.
• 2:20:32
  And the thing, I don't want to.
• 2:20:36
  Say it, but male genitalia on a chariot. Yeah.
• 2:20:41
  And they do a sort of okay job in sort of, like, disguising it, but not really Nate.
• 2:20:51
  It's probably sometimes Amara is just amara.
• 2:20:56
  No, my guy. We will agree to disagree there, but, you know, so I think the game's worth playing. There are a few things that you should know, like, sort of like, going into it. Heads up. If you have interest in the genre, I think it's best in class, or it's at least in the conversation for best in class. As far as, like, jrpgs go, I know that you guys would probably both sort of agree with that sentiment, but do you have anything that you want to add on, you know, before we sort of button that question up?
• 2:21:28
  I would definitely agree with you. And I would also say one of the other concerns is, like, the character of Takaya himself is basically like, you know, if you're bothered by depictions of Jesus, well, he's about as, you know.
• 2:21:39
  As much as he looks like an albino sort of version of white Jesus.
• 2:21:46
  Yeah. With like a crown and everything. So it's like, if that bothers you, definitely don't play it, which, I mean, it did bother me a bit, too, when I first saw it, and I was like, that's kind of bizarre, but, yeah, to each their own.
• 2:22:00
  Yeah. And I don't even know what they were going for with that. Like, I don't even understand the analog at all.
• 2:22:08
  Well, take a. Definitely had a messiah complex. Yeah, true.
• 2:22:14
  By going around and killing like he was a mercenary, you know, he was. He was the leader of a mercenary group, so it. Yeah, that. I don't know.
• 2:22:22
  Well, he. He was an antichrist figure, you know, like, you know. I don't know. I don't know how to say it other than that, I. Do you remember what his Persona was?
• 2:22:36
  No. No, I don't.
• 2:22:38
  I'm going to look it up.
• 2:22:39
  Hypnos.
• 2:22:41
  Hypnos.
• 2:22:42
  Fortune. Arcana.
• 2:22:44
  Hmm. That's weird. That's a weird pick, but yeah. You're saying something, though, Josh.
• 2:22:52
  Yeah, I was just saying about that. About that Persona of Messiah, as has been said, if that bothers your conscience, then don't play it. I want to throw that out, but according to the wiki, what the compendium states about Messiah is that it appears before judgment day to save the virtuous. He's a universal figure appearing in myth around the world. Many stories involve his death and rebirth. So, just to back up, like what Nate said earlier, the game itself uses all kinds of different folklore and elements of different things. So it is not. I would say, it's not a depiction of Jesus himself, but of a Christ figure.
• 2:23:37
  Well, it's a gnostic understanding.
• 2:23:41
  Right? So it's not specifically referring to Jesus in that. I would not consider it a second commandment violation. However, I understand, like, if you don't even want to get that close, totally understandable. It is still sacrilegious. It's using these images, like, these themes in a way that is improper. Yes. So do with that as you will.
• 2:24:08
  And if that bothers you, never play shin Megami tensei for apocalypse. Never.
• 2:24:13
  Oh, yeah.
• 2:24:14
  Just don't play any shin megami tensei games, period.
• 2:24:17
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:24:21
  But, so, you know, we did have some write ins, and I figured it would just be kind of fun to sort of. Again, we'll do some just rapid fire here. Things. Things. Paul, the techno funk boy wants to know, are there chest high walls?
• 2:24:37
  Probably.
• 2:24:38
  Are they. Are they effective?
• 2:24:41
  I don't know if anyone.
• 2:24:41
  Super effective.
• 2:24:44
  Super, super effective. Yeah, you. You cannot. There's no guess. They actually do exactly what you need to be as long as you're inside the chest eye wall. But this is a dumb inside joke, but I still appreciate it. Bergen had this one. Okay. And again, just rapid fire questions here. Ethical question regarding the dating sim aspect of Persona. Is it better for you as an adult to force your teenage avatar to date a fellow virtual teenager? Or to make your real adult self force your virtual teenage avatar to date a virtual adulthood. And it's. And this is why we. We advocate for platonic playthroughs. There's a whole side conversation, but it's like, listen, if it feels skeevy, it's probably skeevy and you shouldn't do it.
• 2:25:48
  That's a great rule of thumb.
• 2:25:49
  That's fair. That's fair.
• 2:25:51
  But I also think it's definitely worse to have your teenage avatar dating an adulthood. Also, that's my two cent. That, unless it's a goth doctor, much more skeevy. Feels skeevy.
• 2:26:06
  What are you talking about? She was best girl, man.
• 2:26:08
  Don't like it. I mean, better than the. Better than the housemaid. But anyways, that's a totally different game. That is not this game. That does not happen in this game.
• 2:26:18
  We don't need to talk about. Yeah. Jono writes in with this one. What was your favorite social link? I think we already kind of hit those. Um, I. Hmm. But just in sort of, like, talking about this, um, was. Were. And you're like, so yours was the cancer patient kid, whatever his name was.
• 2:26:40
  Josh Akinari or something like that. Yeah.
• 2:26:44
  What was your. Would you co sign to that one, Wes?
• 2:26:47
  I mean, there's this one with this student council girl, you know, that was pretty great. It wasn't.
• 2:26:54
  Shut up, Chihiro. Shut up. The little mouse girl. You disgust me.
• 2:27:00
  She learned to open her mouth when she needs to.
• 2:27:04
  No, I would definitely say I think Mako is probably the best one.
• 2:27:09
  Yeah.
• 2:27:09
  Gosh, that's just such a. That one's a tragic one, and it's.
• 2:27:15
  A. Toromaru is one of my, I think, just favorite. I like, I just. I love that sort of arc. I would also sort of give just a little bit of a shout out to. She's kind of a side character, but Yuko.
• 2:27:30
  Oh, yeah, I forgot about her. Yeah. Never mind.
• 2:27:33
  Change my goes. You go. Yuko's social link is kind of, like, really heartwarming and kind of sweet, so I don't. She might be the one. She might be the one. And frankly, Wes, that we were talking about, who, in some ways, is really untouched by death.
• 2:27:52
  Yeah. Yeah, I could see that.
• 2:27:54
  I don't know that. I don't remember all the details, but it doesn't seem like she's got any great tragedy in her backstory. I just. I liked her. It was really sweet and kind of cute, and she is romanceable.
• 2:28:09
  She's way better than chie from Persona 4100%. If you're going sporty, girls, way better.
• 2:28:18
  Yeah. Because she's also. Yeah. Loves her family and. And wants to take care of kids.
• 2:28:24
  Isn't obsessed with me and martial arts. Maybe Chie was like, here are two things I love, and they are the entirety of my personality.
• 2:28:36
  Okay.
• 2:28:36
  That's all a Persona for.
• 2:28:38
  Okay. But this is something I wanted to rant on for just a second here is because, yes, there are some characters that that happens to, especially in future Persona games. This is my issue with basically all the other Persona three spinoff games that I've played. It happened in the dancing games. It happened in Persona. What is it? Shadow of the labyrinth. What is that? Persona Q. Persona Q? Yeah. And then to a certain degree, it happened with the fighting game, at least the first one as well, is that now that you've played three, you'll understand the cast of characters in this game is so strong and so well rounded that when they're pulled into other games, they become just one or two character traits. Like Akihiko in Persona Q is I just want to fight and eat meat. Like, how do you distill Akihiko's character down to those things? And that happens.
• 2:29:39
  So they made him void chi?
• 2:29:41
  Yes. Yeah, basically. And it's so annoying. Even with Persona Q, Shinjiro is in it, so it happens. They get pulled out, warped to this other universe before he dies, and he's in, and he's just sulking around, and it's like, dude. But I know what happened. Like, he's such a complex character. Instead, he's just like this sad boy, you know, in the back of the room.
• 2:30:06
  Angry, angry, sad dad energy.
• 2:30:08
  Exactly. And so sorry. And just a little mini rant. Is that it? It makes me sad. Every time I see these characters in a different context outside of this game, they get. Their character just becomes compressed into one or two annoying things, and I'm just like, but they are so good. They're such good characters, and you ruined them. So, yeah, rant.
• 2:30:34
  I think that, and we kind of talked about that, but, like, I think one of the things that three does sort of, and it's sort of best in class is just like, the cast of characters is really good.
• 2:30:44
  Yeah.
• 2:30:46
  But we got a couple more questions here. So with Persona three reload, and this is from our buddy Dorian. But with Persona three reloaded being my first Persona game, I absolutely loved it. Since you guys have played previous Persona entries, were there any letdown? Oh, no. Persona three entries, were there any letdowns for you? Personally, in this version. I think we already answered that. Yes.
• 2:31:11
  There's one more thing. No, one more thing.
• 2:31:13
  Okay.
• 2:31:14
  I really like the soundtrack for reload, but the PS two version was so much better. Like, those original tracks, like, they are forever burned into my heart, and, like, they tried. They tried with the remake soundtrack, but, man, there's nothing that can beat that original soundtrack.
• 2:31:32
  Didn't quite hit it.
• 2:31:34
  So I'm curious about something real quick, Wes. So you played the portable version. So when you start up the game does it, there's. There's a very distinct version, a fuller version of one of the songs in fess that starts off with just vocals, and I think it's in the opening, the opening animation of the game as well. Is that what plays in Persona three portable? Cause it's just so memorable to me. Okay. I'll need to find it, maybe send it to you or something. Because I'm. I'm just curious because that. Because, you know, obviously, I had turned the game off and on so many times in my 90 hours or whatever it was playing through the game, and I was surprised. I heard it. Just earlier today, after, like, going through a synopsis of the story, I heard that song, and some emotions welled up, and I'm just like, oh, wow. Okay. Because, you know, I just remembered all the chihiro and. And Ken stuff. And then the very end of the game, which I assume will spend at least a couple minutes talking about. Wow. Yeah. Anyways, yes, the original music is really good. Reload. Music is really good, too.
• 2:32:46
  Okay, one last question. This is actually from me to you guys, and I'll preface. This is. I started out the game and out the gate. I just thought Junpei was obnoxious. And then he does. He has this sort of, like, point where it's like, he was kind of growing on me, but I still felt like he was a bit of a. Just a dud. Like, I was just like, he's just kind of dumb. But, you know, I'd say, like, about a little past halfway into the game, it was like, oh. Like, some things happened to him that really just clicked and made him sort of, like, forced him to sort of, like, grow up, and he became a lot like, it just. It opened him up as a character because, like, he felt very, like, one dimensional and kind of, like, just, like, just annoying. And then it was like, oh, okay. Like, it kind of recontextualized him. Was there anything like that for you guys? Was there a character that you started out liking and then you did like a total 180 on. Or the other way around where you just, you started out and you're like, no, this character sucks to. And then, like, you hit a certain point, you're like, nope, they're the bee's knees. Did. Did either one of you have a character that you did a 180 on for good or ill?
• 2:34:12
  I mean, I can definitely say I didn't really, like, I guess, like, when you first introduced to her because it felt like such a weird anime trope, especially during, like, coming directly after that beach scene. And it's just like, that is just such a weird moment of the game. And then she appears, and you're just like, oh, yeah, this is one of those weird, like, mid two thousands romance anime tropes. And it's just gonna be this for the whole game. But then it didn't end up being that way. So it's like, oh, okay. This is a pleasant surprise because you assume it's gonna go one way if you don't know anything about the characters, but it doesn't at all. It's, you know, maybe hinted at here and there, but no, she tends to be portrayed pretty wholesomely, and I preferred that. Yeah, I like that.
• 2:34:56
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I agree with that one, especially with how the game ends. The only other thing that comes to mind for me is that Ken, as a kid, I wanted to like him, but he was a brat for quite a while. So. So there was a little bit of a roller coaster of, like, oh, yeah, I like him, but every time he opens his mouth, I like him quite a bit less. Until the scene with, with Shinjiro when he. When he sacrifices himself. And then Ken is like, no, I'm gonna live. You know, like, like, okay, this is worth it. Like, I'm gonna make my life worth the sacrifice. Then I'm like, okay, you go, man.
• 2:35:43
  So, yeah, I would agree, though. June Pei is the worst. June Pei is the worst for most of that game. Just an absolute.
• 2:35:49
  He's just. He's such. Just a little, like. And it'd be one thing, like, he wants to be like the. The noble rival kind of like, thing. He's like, I want to, like, he's throwing off like this. I want to be the main character energy, and he just kind of sucks. Like, and then, yeah, like, the stuff with Chidori goes down and, guys, if you want to know how that sort of plays out and what we're talking about, just. Just play the game. Or if you can't, well, I guess you didn't need to know anyways. But I think, Josh, we do need to start winding this down and land this plane. But I think before we go, we. You sort of said to it, we do need to talk about the ending. Like, and not just like. So you beat Nix, you sort of seal away the ultimate doom of creation. And there's this kind of thing. And frankly, what happens is that everybody forgets. There's this kind of, like, weird condition. Everybody. But Aigas actually forgets. And I think the main character as well, I think it implies that he remembered, or maybe he was the first to remember. But there's this thing on, like, graduation day where everybody, they made this pact before the final end that if they got through this thing, they were gonna meet up on, like, the graduation day for Mitsuru and Akihiko and, like, they were gonna celebrate together. And there's sort of the sequence where it shows people sort of like, I guess, comes to the main characters door and she's like, you remember, don't you? And he was like, and you, I think you say yes, or whatever. Anyways, it begins this sequence and everybody through the day, like, kind of like, like. So all this stuff that these people have been experiencing for months and months and months and months, they've, because of, like, the way that the whole midnight hour thing worked and there were weird absurdist Sci-Fi nonsense what triggered all of this? But they all sort of forgot. And then through this last day, sort of like, through the power of friendship, everybody just sort of, like, comes to terms and they start realizing all the different things and they all run together to the top of the. I'm getting a little misty, so I gotta be careful. I'm not gonna cry on camera. Everybody's running to the roof of the high school building to me. And the whole time, I guess, is sort of she's dialoguing with the main character and she's basically promising to stay with him. And this is kind of one of the reasons why I would say, like, if you want to go a romance option. I think Aigas is pretty potent, at least for just the game. I've heard that, frankly, the DLC, the answer sort of undermines a lot of that. But she's talking, she's dialoguing, and she's like, for as long as you're alive, I'll be here. I will never forget you. I will always be with you. And it's tough because everybody's running up to the roof and it, and it's the, the game sort of ends in a way where he could just be sleeping. But it's pretty strongly implied that the main character dies. He dies in Aygus lap. Yeah. With his, like, basically resting on her. And I don't know if it was like the prolongment of, you know, it's like maybe he should have died in that car accident ten years prior. And I, that the ceiling of thanatos in his body sort of saved him. And then this sort of began sort of like. And when you sort of like, he basically got through the end of it and it just like, he. It was just sort of like he was living on severely borrowed time. I don't know. I haven't done any, like, weird deep dives into this, but. And frankly, it just like, it just, it does exactly what it needs to. Like, the game, I think, wouldn't sit as much if there was a happy ever after. So that's, that's the ending. And it's, it's really sad. And like I said it, like, it's like all these people that, you know, you're sort of leaving behind as the main character, I think about again, like, sort of, I've mentioned the sort of affection that I have for Koramaru and the fact that, like, you know, the dog. The dog lost one master and now lost the second master. It's kind of like, it's just, it's sad. Sad the whole way through. Now. There is a weird bit of, like, speculation that because there's the, the girl. Who is it, Elizabeth that tends the velvet room door?
• 2:41:12
  Yeah.
• 2:41:13
  Okay. There's actually some weird stuff apparently, that's going on. Elizabeth has some sisters and all of the attendants of the velvet room. There is some weird stuff. And apparently there are theories within the fandom that there is something that Elizabeth and I think the answer actually sort of might lean into this, but Elizabeth is trying to do something to actually reverse that. But the main character dies at the end. They're like, you know, it's. And some of that is like, kind of inevitable because when he seals death, like, there's this part in the last fight where the rest of the party is like, they're just, they're kind of being crushed under the massive weight of this oncoming affliction and he sort of flies up to meet death and he seals it away. But in doing so, he has this move that uses up all of his life. And so, yeah, it's kind of a weird ending that in some ways doesn't make tons of sense, but also makes perfect sense. And you guys, thoughts on the ending of Persona three.
• 2:42:33
  Wes, you got anything?
• 2:42:35
  Nope. I think you encapsulated it perfectly. And, you know, I would say it make it. While it doesn't make logical sense, it does make thematic sense, going back to your word from earlier. And I think that's what I mean, that's really what matters in this game. Like, all of that imagery and everything that you saw at the beginning of the game is really fulfilled by the end, and it's like. I don't know. It's very poetic.
• 2:42:57
  Yeah. Yeah, just a couple things. So I guess throughout the whole game, she is a robot, and so she, you know, a lot of Sci-Fi talks about, you know, do androids dream of electric sheep kind of a thing? You know, how. What's the line between human and robot and whatever? And she's wrestling with death, and, like, oh, if humans die, then what does it mean to live? And if I don't die, then what does it mean for me to live? And so, like, the whole game, she's wrestling with through that. And so it's especially poignant at the very end, her just saying, like, you as the protagonist, like, you are the one who has provided me an answer. Like, I will protect you. I've seen, you know, what you do, and she actually physically cries at the end as well, kind of signifying that, you know, she's more than just a robot. Like, she can actually. She can actually experience that emotion and have that deep love and affection for someone else. So it's. So. It's really powerful there. She has, like you said, that whole monologue. It is a dialogue. You do have a couple options, but she goes on the whole thing, and it's very beautiful.
• 2:44:07
  It's also sad.
• 2:44:08
  It is. Yes, it is sad. So spoilers for the answer, or do you mind if I spoil a little bit of the answer?
• 2:44:16
  Yeah, I mean, what? Yeah, go ahead. Whatever.
• 2:44:18
  Okay. Because I know you might end up playing the DLC. So.
• 2:44:22
  So what happens by the time. By the. Unless I listen to this episode on repeat, which is probably, again, not impossible, but highly unlikely, there's a good chance that I might forget some of this. So.
• 2:44:35
  Okay, well, in. In what the protagonist does at the very end, like you were talking about, uh, he. The seal upon. Upon nix that he does, he is actually physically there sealing her. So think of it sort of like the famous Spider man movies where he stops the train by having the webs across, and he's holding on really strongly. He's basically doing that. It looks kind of like a little statue of the main character, but he is there physically sealing away death from coming and destroying the, the world is basically what it is. And so all his energy, and I think there is probably something to what you said as well of that, you know, because the main character is kind of this fusion of, of this kid who should have been dead with death itself kind of a thing, you know, whatever. But basically all his energy is going to sealing away is holding off and sealing away death. So in a sense, the game still does say death is inevitable. And I think you get that even just from him dying at the very end of the game. But it's also the self sacrifice of the main character. The reason that he died is to protect the rest of the world. So in that he is this figure. I don't even want to say it.
• 2:45:59
  Man, but he's a messianic figure.
• 2:46:02
  Yes. Yeah, exactly. Which, like you said, brings all these themes back together, and it's kind of like, how else could the game end? Like, that's. That's the perfect way to wrap this up. And I think it also helps as well, because in these games, if you played other Persona games, something that ends up happening is you end up gaining so much social standing throughout the game that you're pretty much the perfect kid. Like, you are perfectly charming and perfectly courageous and. And everyone wants to date you, and you're this perfect person. And I think the one thing that's amazing about this game in particular, that the other games don't do, at least not the ones that I've played, is that it doesn't just end there with, oh, yeah, he's just this great guy that everyone wants to be. But not only that, then he goes and sacrifices himself so he can't continue on. He doesn't get a happily ever after. He doesn't get a wife and kids in a perfect little family, like that journey to perfection that he's gone on in that perfection, whatever, it serves the purpose of pouring his life out for everyone else and the sacrificial death. And furthermore, what I love about this, as I was thinking about this game more, it reminds me of something that I believe it was Nikolaus von Zizendorf. Is that how you pronounce it? I don't know, but he said, and Nate, I know you've talked about this as well on the podcast before, at least a quote that's attributed to him. It says, preach the gospel, die and be forgotten, ultimately talking about how your life is not just about you, but it's about what you do in the purposes of God, the things that last eternally. Obviously, you're not preaching the gospel in this game, but I think it still hits on some of these same idea that the main character is forgotten by everyone else. Like, yes, you get these glimmers of remembrance at the very end. I guess because she's a robot, she can remember somehow things like that. But most of the world, everyone else in the world has no idea who the protagonist was, but he is physically up in the skies, sealing away this impending doom, this death that was about to kill everyone. And I just think that's such a beautiful picture of what a sacrificial life looks like. Even if no one responds, your sacrifice and your love still means something. What this game says is it makes life worth it. But again, as christians, we recognize that's not what makes life worth it. Being a part of God's story of doing God's work is what ultimately makes it worth it because it has eternal repercussions. But I just think it's just such a great image. It's such a great picture. And to have that come kind of full circle with the ending of this game. Yeah, it's just fantastic. And then just rethinking about all these things over again with this recommendation. West. It, man, it. It's definitely a top 25 game for me because all these things just kind of come back to mind. And, man, it's so poignant, and I don't know where I still need to nail down my list, but this one's. This one's pretty high up there, so thanks for.
• 2:49:28
  So just, you know, I have two thoughts real quick. Is Persona three currently on our top 100 list?
• 2:49:36
  I believe so.
• 2:49:37
  I can double check, but I would imagine just.
• 2:49:40
  Yeah, we traded five for three the last time we talked about it. Yeah.
• 2:49:43
  Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Just wanted to sort of, like, follow up and double check that. Okay. The other thing is, like, we were talking about how, like, in the game, the game sort of, like, explains, like, how he is restraining death. And what I would say is, like, you know, for believers, just something to keep in mind. And when you're. When you're thinking about this and is that our savior does not restrain death. He rules death with a fist. And it will not just be like, someday he will put death to death. And I think that we need to be reminded of that. It's like, yeah, there's something sort of romantic in the humanist sense of this being that gives just, again, the sacrifice, but the only sacrifice that actually mattered. For any of humanity redeems us out of. Redeems us out of death. It's not that we won't feel some of the sting. It's like we weren't meant to die. Let's just put it that way. But at the end of the day, the true messiah, he does not merely just hold death back. He crushes it underneath his heel.
• 2:51:05
  That's awesome.
• 2:51:06
  And we, you know, that that's something to remember and something to think on. But that. That being said, I think, gentlemen, this is a good place, you know, unless you disagree, I think this is a good place to just call it a night here and sort of, like, just wind. Wind her down. But, you know, we do have a couple of forms to observe before we can sort of really, like, call it the, you know, just the end of the night, and let's just, like, roll through some shout outs here, some quick fire shout outs. Wes, since you're our guest, I see you do have a shout out here, so why don't you sort of just, you know, take a rip?
• 2:51:42
  All right. I got a few shout outs. I'm gonna make them short and sweet to Nick portrait for, you know, having me wake up at 03:00 a.m. to join them, to record some nothing new under the porch. You know, it seems to be working. It fits into my schedule. Pretty exhausted each day, but, you know, it's a good kind of exhaustion. I did something really important, you know, guest appearing on his podcast, and there's some more episodes coming.
• 2:52:03
  Did some good work there.
• 2:52:04
  Yeah, that's right. That's right. And then for Paul, he always provides me with, like, you know, a plus fire memes during the day. Always gives me a chuckle. So, you know, there you go, Paul. You've been waiting this whole time to get a shout out. There you go. And then finally, finally, for my good favorite restaurant, Arby's. And you always have my back. I love Arby's, and it's fantastic. It feels like an arby's night.
• 2:52:28
  Respect. I'll put some respect on that. Josh, what do you got for us?
• 2:52:34
  My shout out is for someone we've already talked about who had some questions about this game, but he goes by redeemed Ronan in our discord. He just had a whole thread as a reply to talk further about the last bite sized episode I did on the morality of interactivity, and I really appreciated just how thoughtful he was with his reply there. And it's exactly the type of thing when we say, hey, if you have thoughts, you know, contact us kind of a thing. So thank you for doing that, man. It's good stuff. Love talking about it further.
• 2:53:06
  Yeah. Jono, aka the redeemed Ronin. Always just an insightful and really just top shelf dude. Top shelf dude always has something. Something interesting and helpful to say, which cannot be said for, I think, most people, including us, sometimes.
• 2:53:28
  I mean, I feel like he raises the general iq of the discord by, like, you know, 20 something points. So. Good on you, dude. Good on you.
• 2:53:34
  Well, yeah, yeah. Well. And just like. Yeah, so my shout out, and this is not really sort of. It's. He did post something recently here in the discord, but buddy, our buddy, friend of the show Mikey gear solid, he likes to do, like, the in game photography stuff. Like, if a game has a photo mode, Micah will spend dozens of hours just tinkering around with that. And in sort of prepping for, you know, our upcoming book club episode, he's been revisiting death stranding, and he's done some, like, photo mode stuff in there and just absolutely gorgeous shots. There was, like, one that he posted that I would. I was like, wait, this isn't real life. Like, he had tweaked. Like, he plays with the values and everything, and it's. It's really. It was really, really good. But apparently, he's been getting some retweets from the. The master magician himself, Hideo Kojima, has been, like, retweeting some of Micah's pictures, and I just wanted to be like, dude, that's sick. Yeah, man, Micah was really tickled when. When he shared that with me the one time, and I was like, yo, that's wild. Yeah, just shout out to him, Micah's a good dude. And, like, I am insanely envious what he can do with, like, an in game.
• 2:55:04
  Like, I don't have the patience for that.
• 2:55:06
  Yeah, I. Yeah, yeah, just. You got it. Like, yeah, the. The patience and the dedication, but shout out to you, Micah. That's. That's. That's pretty sick. And we're glad to see you sort of getting some attention for that. That's very cool, man. So, yeah, moving along here, it's time for us to do a challenge update. And so here comes a new challenger. Oh, yes. I actually really dig that. I'm glad we worked that in there. So the first episode of every month, which will essentially be this one, that's not when we're recording it, but that's when it's going to air. Little, you know, I guess, inside baseball, there but we talk about challenges in our updates. And so just to, you know, sort of like, I'll lay the table here. Mine was getting into a better sleep rhythm and I put in parentheses for really real. And all I'm going to say is like, yeah, I have a two year old, so back off. I have a two year old who, you know, recently got hand, foot and mouth disease, so back off. So my sleep schedule, especially lately, has been a doo doo canoe. But how about you, Josh? What was your personal challenge?
• 2:56:33
  Yeah, so mine was to start calorie counting kind of hardcore. And, yeah, it's somewhat of a same deal. Like, you talked about how you have a son, and so sometimes things just don't happen the way that you want them as much as you have. Like, these goals. Like. Like, there are things that are more important sometimes and. Okay, so you stay up with your.
• 2:56:57
  Son, you know, eating even the crust of your kid's peanut butter and jelly sandwich is more important than counting collards.
• 2:57:03
  Exactly. No, in my case, we just had. We had my parents come, you know, for. Stay with us for a week. And so I was much more focused on just being with family. Obviously, there's still healthy choices that I can make, but between that and then the sickness that's kind of been going around, it's like. Like I haven't been. I have not hit my goal of counting calories. Like, I want to, um, so I'd like to continue that, but I don't want to just say, oh, let's just do that again for another month. Um, I I do want to, um, but that's not what I'm going to focus on necessarily what you can hold me accountable to for the next month. Um, one thing that I. That I recognize that I want to get better at going forward is just my attention span. I think it's gotten to a point where whenever I feel a slight bit of boredom, I pull out my phone and start scrolling on something and I've just to an unhealthy degree to where it's like, why are you looking at. Why are you refreshing your email? You just looked at it ten minutes ago. Or why are you on Facebook again? You just looked at it. There's nothing new kind of a thing. So here's the plan is I want to. To figure out how many times I unlock my phone throughout the day. So I'm going to be searching for an app or something like that and just limit that, first of all, because obviously there are legitimate things you can be doing on your phone and that's fine. And there's nothing wrong with that, but those times where I'm just a little bit bored, and so I go to my phone, like, no, I need to think of something better to do. So to that end, I just. This afternoon, I went to the library, and I checked out a book that you recommended on our last episode, east of Eden. So I'd rather sit and read, even if it's just a page, half a page, when I feel bored, rather than pulling out my phone. So I want to carry a book. I've got my Kindle as well. I could do that, but I want to read instead. I want that initial tinge of boredom to be fed by reading rather than by looking at my phone. The other part of that is I just want to regulate how much I'm opening my phone and especially limiting what I call, what I've heard called, referred to as infinity pools, which is basically those things that you can refresh infinitely. Those lists, which a lot of social media does that, but also different websites. I go to slick deals a lot. I can get caught up with just something there, Reddit, things like that, where it has basically infinite content, if you really want to do that. And I don't really want to do that, so I want to regulate and limit those things.
• 2:59:46
  I got to say, when I first read Infinity pools, I was like, is that Nate's thing? Is that something to do with Marvel? Snap. I was pretty convinced.
• 2:59:55
  Yeah. I can't remember who I had picked that up from, but it was one of those attention. It was, like, a productivity something where it referred to an infinitely refreshing platform. So in particular, something like Facebook or Instagram or TikTok, where it just, you.
• 3:00:16
  Know, those things weren't always the way, like, right. That wasn't always. It used to be just, like, with Twitter and with Facebook, especially with those two, it's. You would only see, like, the things that your friends posted.
• 3:00:37
  You could get to the end.
• 3:00:38
  You could get to the end. And now that it, like, it's like, hey, have you seen this thing? Have you? And it's like, now that they kind of, like, I. It's actually one of the things that, like, drives me away from social media.
• 3:00:50
  Yeah.
• 3:00:50
  Is that it's like, I got on here to, like, keep in touch with people, and I can't even see what those people that I wanted. Like, I can't. Yeah. So, yeah, it's. That's cool, though. I like that. So, Wes, I saw that you had some commentary to offer, just, like, goals.
• 3:01:08
  Guys, come on. Come on. You're holding me to a different standard here. I don't want to have goals. I don't want any expectations. My goals are surviving. Get to bed.
• 3:01:19
  Yeah, dude. Dude. Survival is always a decent goal. Thriving is a better one, but survival is not a bad one.
• 3:01:27
  That's pretty much it. Anytime anybody asks me, it's like, how you doing? I'm like, surviving.
• 3:01:31
  Yeah.
• 3:01:32
  I'm alive. I'm upright.
• 3:01:35
  You're working hard. You're raising four kiddos. I mean, you're doing a lot, man. So don't feel like you have to add anything else.
• 3:01:43
  I'm trying not to.
• 3:01:46
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 3:01:47
  I think that really, for me, it's like regulating unhealthy habits that I have. It's nothing. It's not like, oh, I need to be better in so many because, yeah, it feels overwhelming when I do that, but it's like noticing the bad things that I do. Unhealthy eating, wasting time on social media, stuff like that.
• 3:02:07
  Yeah.
• 3:02:08
  But I think, like I said, like I was starting to say at one point in time, I think this is pretty much just where we need to land the plane. But, boys, it's Josh. If they want to get a hold of us, where can they do that?
• 3:02:22
  That's right. You can reach out to us on all our different socials. Links for that is on our Linktree. That's linktree.com. the backlog breakdown. Go check it out. We'd love to hear from you.
• 3:02:33
  Wesley Ray, the henchydad himself. Where can people find you on the interwebs?
• 3:02:39
  Basically nowhere, because I post nothing anywhere at this point except discord. You wander into the discord, I am there. I exist. Send me a message, you know, tell me how goofy I am, and you can listen to the retron in podcast if you want my thoughts on various, various retro topics. Beyond Pokemon.
• 3:02:57
  Beyond Pokemon. That being said, I think, gentlemen, we kind of. We. We pulled this thing down off the shelf. We pulled it apart. We looked at all the different bits and bobs. Well, as much as it was reasonable, I think we've had a heck of a conversation, and I think this is a good place to just sort of again, landed plane. Call it a night, Josh. Until next episode. What should they do, guys?
• 3:03:21
  Keep beating down your backlogs and we'll keep breaking down the benefits.