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Do The Cardinals Need A Clubhouse Babysitter? · Kenny Wallace Media

0:00
What's up, everybody? It is episode 3, Low Hanging
0:04
Fruit. The second episode that we've
0:06
called it Low Hanging Fruit. So that's still the name of the
0:09
podcast. For now, I'm Charlie Marlow.
0:11
That's Brendan Schaefer. B Schaefe.
0:14
How you doing buddy? Hey, I'm doing really good.
0:16
Glad to be back with you. I like low hanging fruit.
0:19
Honestly, it's kind of growing on me too.
0:21
Yeah, I like it as well. And I think so far a lot of the
0:24
people do. So the big news actually
0:27
happened, what, last Friday? So we're almost a week away from
0:30
the Matt Carpenter news and there's a lot to talk about.
0:34
We can discuss the signing. John Mosalak had a press
0:39
conference. I saw you put that on your
0:40
YouTube channel. Matt Carpenter met with the
0:42
media. I did not get get to see that
0:45
one and I know you're all involved in all this so I'll
0:48
just throw it to you. First.
0:49
Matt Carpenter signs with the Cardinals one year deal.
0:52
Cardinals only have to pay about 740K.
0:55
Your. Thoughts.
0:56
My My first thoughts when it happened were of course, like
1:01
again, we always have talked about the Cardinals just doing
1:04
the most Cardinals Z things. And how Cardinals Z is it to
1:08
bring back a guy that the last time he was here and left,
1:11
people were ready to see him go and it was it was time and you
1:17
got to have a nice little send off.
1:18
And people, you know, people were irritated with Carpenter
1:21
the last couple of years of him in Saint Louis because he wasn't
1:24
performing well. But then it was like, OK, you
1:26
know, he, he got somewhat of a send off and they didn't have to
1:29
get too terribly awkward, Like they didn't cut him.
1:32
It was fine. Now he can go on to do whatever
1:35
he wants to do and he had a nice little rebound with the Yankees,
1:38
got him a contract with the Padres.
1:39
But then last year, he kind of reverted back to old ways and
1:42
wasn't performing. So a Cardinals team that lost 90
1:44
games, you're going, all right, how can you try and improve on
1:47
the margins of the roster? Let's bring back Matt Carpenter
1:50
to hit 180. Like, that's the way a lot of
1:52
Cardinals fans are feeling about it.
1:54
And from like a performance standpoint, I don't know that it
1:57
would be too reasonable to expect anything beyond that in
2:00
2024, when in 2021 it was problematic.
2:04
So I I I think I understand some frustration from the fans from
2:08
that perspective. The interesting thing is the
2:10
whole notion of clubhouse leadership and how that point
2:13
was really driven home by John Mosalak.
2:15
And it seems like that conclusion that he draws is
2:18
coming from within the Cardinals clubhouse, saying, yeah, this is
2:21
something that we need, which is a really fascinating angle in
2:24
all of this. Yeah.
2:25
So when the news happens last week, I'm running around working
2:29
out, running a couple errands. I see it, I go, OK, I'm going to
2:32
jump on, I'm going to do a video on it and I kind of, instead of
2:36
doing my research first, I did it while I was doing the video
2:39
because I'm like, let's see how did he hit last year?
2:42
Where did he play defensively the last couple years?
2:45
And I was, as I was immediately processing it.
2:48
I'm trying to think how this makes sense and I probably
2:50
overthought it because I was focused too much on how it
2:54
potentially helps the Cardinals from a baseball standpoint.
2:58
And I know John Mozelak said that's half of it.
3:01
But I think it's even less than half it, it sounds like, and I
3:05
don't want to play the percentage game we can, but it
3:08
sounds like it's more like 75% of this move is for the
3:11
leadership piece and 25% of the move is for whatever he can give
3:16
you on the baseball field. And I don't think there are very
3:18
high expectations for that at all.
3:21
But as I'm trying to piece together well, how does it make
3:24
sense? OK, Can he play a little first?
3:26
Could he still play outfield? He was doing that for the
3:28
Yankees a little bit. Could he ever play third base?
3:31
No. When you listen to John Mosalak,
3:33
this is way more about the clubhouse and leadership.
3:37
And then lacking voices and getting back to that good old
3:40
Cardinal Way baby. And what's interesting about
3:43
that is, OK, we know they lost Yadi and Albert and then the
3:47
next year they were terrible. Like we we saw that play out.
3:51
Interesting though, because Albert was only there for one
3:53
year. So I'm sure he was a very net
3:55
positive effect on the clubhouse the year that he was back.
3:58
But he it's not like before that there was this obvious Albert
4:02
voyage for 10 years and then he comes back and so that part's a
4:05
little bit iffy for me. But Yadi obviously ran this
4:08
organization right as as the the the head honcho from the catcher
4:13
position and was really, really important to kind of how that
4:16
clubhouse function. And then stepping into the next
4:19
season of 2023, you looked at it and said, all right yes, there's
4:23
a little bit of a void there because of guys that have been
4:25
here. But Paul Goldschmidt is a
4:27
veteran. Nolan Arenado is a veteran.
4:29
The the the drop off really shouldn't be that significant.
4:32
You still got Adam Wainwright, but then Wainwright gets hurt.
4:35
And so it's kind of a weird year for him from a leadership
4:38
perspective because when everything is going to hell in a
4:41
handbasket in April, he's not even there for a lot of it,
4:44
right, Because he's rehabbing or whatever.
4:46
So he's not like hands on in the way that he otherwise would have
4:48
been. And then you just think about
4:50
the leadership styles of Paul Goldsmith and Nolan Arenado and
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it's been a lot's been made about it.
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But I think a lot of what's been talked about and reported as
4:58
pretty accurate. We're like Paul Goldschmidt is a
4:59
guy that leads by example and he will.
5:02
He'll speak up and and say things to guys when he thinks it
5:05
needs to be done. But it's not really his style to
5:08
get up on the table and rah, rah and and in a way that you could
5:11
see like we're not in that clubhouse when the players are.
5:14
You know, a lot of the times the media gets a glimpse, but we
5:17
don't get the full picture. But you could imagine like Yati
5:19
or Molina in the way that his personality goes that that he
5:22
would have run that clubhouse in a particular manner.
5:25
And then there's Arnado, who like, it's not that he's not
5:27
going to be vocal necessarily, but he's an intense guy.
5:31
He, his leadership is almost the example of just how ridiculously
5:36
committed he is to his own individual craft and others can
5:39
pick up on that. But he's not necessarily that
5:41
conventional type of leader either, which is not to
5:45
necessarily knock him. But if those are the two guys
5:47
that are sort of the leaders of your clubhouse, you go out and
5:50
think, all right, it could be helpful to maybe have a little
5:52
bit more muscle in that regard. And I think with the the press
5:56
conference from John Louis Zaelic, you hear him basically
5:58
say in talking with guys like Goldie and Arenado and Ollie
6:02
Marmel, that was the conclusion that the Cardinals from within
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the clubhouse said, hey, we need a little bit more.
6:08
But then I think about Matt Carpenter, he's not really that
6:10
vocal leader either, at least you know from what I can recall.
6:13
So again, we don't see everything within the clubhouse,
6:16
so you can take it with a grain of salt, but it's very
6:19
interesting that the guy that went out and got like, was he
6:22
vocally leading the clubhouse in 2020 and 2021 when he was
6:25
hitting 180? I don't, I don't know how
6:27
realistic of an expectation that is, Charlie.
6:30
Yeah, and that's why I think the whole leadership aspect is is
6:34
overblown and here's why I say that now.
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Now look, you and I are are doing content in YouTube, so So
6:41
nothing is better for views. Let's be honest then what
6:45
happened last year with Tyler O'Neill, For what happened last
6:48
year with Wilson Contreras and and those were off the field or
6:53
on the field, but but clubhouse leadership type decisions.
6:58
I think most people agree that the Cardinals didn't handle
7:01
either of those well at all. Surely with Contreras even you
7:05
can make the argument with Tyler O'Neill, OK, he needed to
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hustle. Maybe it's better to keep that
7:11
in house. My point though is to me we only
7:14
talk about a lack of leadership when a team is bad.
7:17
I don't remember and I've been here since 2008.
7:20
I could be wrong. I don't remember ever talking
7:23
about the Cardinals lacking leadership.
7:25
Now, to be fair, Yachty had essentially been here the entire
7:28
time, but also they were winning the entire time.
7:31
Even the years where they didn't make the play offs, go back to
7:34
2008, go back to the end of the Matheny era.
7:38
They were still a winning ball club.
7:39
And so we talked about leadership with Matheny.
7:42
But that was also based more on decision making and handling A
7:46
bullpen and Travis Ichikawa and things like that.
7:48
So what I'm trying to say is to me, the media and the fans, we
7:52
go leadership route when a team is bad.
7:55
If the team was good last year, we wouldn't discuss it.
7:58
But I think it's fair to say that John Mozelac is a pretty
8:01
straight shooter. But also teams don't tell you
8:04
everything. So the fact that John Mozelac is
8:07
willing to say, hey, we did lack voices last year, I I think it's
8:12
even worse than we thought it was.
8:13
I I want people to know that. But big picture to me, the team
8:17
sucked because the pitching sucked.
8:20
We wouldn't talk about leadership if the team won 86
8:24
games, made the playoffs. Even if they didn't make the
8:27
playoffs and they won 85 games, we wouldn't be having these
8:29
these conversations. The pitching sucked last year.
8:33
Everybody was depressed. They sold off assets.
8:36
It was a freaking Adam Wainwright side show for the
8:39
second-half of the season. That's why everybody was
8:41
depressed in my opinion. But I do think there is
8:43
something there with the leadership.
8:45
But I think we're overblowing. But can you maybe connect some
8:48
of that pitching stuff to the lack of and again, this is going
8:53
to, this is a careful line to walk because you're not
8:54
necessarily trying to rip a guy and say, well, it was this guy's
8:57
fault, But that's essentially what the pitchers did to Wilson
9:01
Contreras, and that's not very good leadership, right?
9:04
Like your new catcher already has a tough job ahead of him
9:08
because he's replacing a legend that was beloved in the the
9:11
place that he was and the guy who kind of ran the clubhouse.
9:14
And you're going to go within the first few weeks and
9:16
basically throw that guy under the bus to the manager, to the
9:20
general manager or the the the Pobo.
9:23
Like if the pitchers were telling Moe and telling Ollie
9:25
like this, this Contreras guy, we've got some, you know, we got
9:29
some things to work on here, OK. But like what's the way in which
9:32
they went about doing that that led to the sudden benching of
9:35
the catcher that they had just signed for 87 and a half
9:38
million. So the pitching was bad, but the
9:40
pitchers also maybe kind of did some of the scapegoating, right?
9:43
Like, like, and then you think about the way that they go out
9:47
and sign new pitchers that are veteran and they want to kind of
9:50
reset the clubhouse from that standpoint to carp on the
9:54
position player side. OK.
9:55
But that they haven't made many moves in that regard.
9:57
They kind of felt like the group they had from a position player
10:00
standpoint was pretty good and could probably compete this
10:03
year. That's why they didn't make too
10:04
many moves in that area. Pitching was the complete
10:07
overhaul and it's almost like the type of guys they brought
10:09
in. Every time they brought one in,
10:11
they talked about the value of his veteran experience in the
10:14
way that he can kind of help within the clubhouse.
10:16
And you think about who's gone, OK.
10:18
Jordan Montgomery was really good from an on field
10:21
standpoint, but it's not that he was.
10:25
I'm not going to say that he was like the problem with all of
10:27
this, but he was kind of the new guy as well.
10:29
And he's been in some different clubhouse environments.
10:32
And I feel like I get the sense from him that it was just sort
10:34
of like what's going on here. Like, some things aren't maybe
10:36
the way I'm used to having them and just a level of discomfort.
10:40
I they never would say, like, yeah, Jordan Montgomery doesn't
10:43
want to throw to Contreras. They never really did say that.
10:46
But very consistently, Andrew Kisner was catching Jordan
10:48
Montgomery. You could go back and look for
10:50
the game logs and it was like a lot.
10:51
No, eventually Wilson started catching him again.
10:54
This is kind of tea leaf stuff. Not like legitimate stuff that I
10:58
can say, Oh yeah, this was happening.
11:00
But you kind of look at that. And then the Jack Flaherty, I
11:02
mean, when the benching happened, it was shortly after
11:05
an outing where Jack Flaherty gave up like 27 runs and after
11:08
the game said we're throwing pitches that don't make sense.
11:11
And I mean, Flaherty has kind of tried to go back to that comment
11:14
even, like, within the last few weeks and say, you know, that
11:16
was misconstrued. I didn't mean it that way.
11:19
Was that a comment that led to everything with Wilson
11:21
Contreras? I don't think so.
11:23
But I bet there was more being said behind the scenes.
11:25
So without like dropping the hammer and saying like, OK,
11:28
that's the problem with last year's leadership.
11:31
You could at least kind of look and say they wanted to kind of
11:34
reshuffle that rotation and and get guys in there that they felt
11:37
like we're going to be good with a handle on that aspect of
11:40
things. So while I do think just to say,
11:43
hey, every guy you bring in has got to be just a great leader
11:45
and that's going to get you 20 extra wins, might be a
11:48
simplistic view. I also think there were some
11:50
things probably going on where they said like it's why they're
11:53
attacking the offseason in this way.
11:54
We don't maybe know what all of them were, but you can look at
11:57
their actions now and say maybe there's a reason that all of
12:00
this leadership stuff is important to the way the
12:02
Cardinals are building their team this year.
12:05
Right. To me, this one is all about
12:06
nuance, and there's a lot to it. It really could have been the
12:09
perfect or imperfect crapstorm of everything happening
12:13
negatively last year. You can start with coaching
12:16
staff. Dusty Blake, Mike Maddox moves
12:19
on. Joe Mcewing.
12:21
Now bench coach is different. But I'm just I'm.
12:23
I'm throwing everything out there.
12:24
It's relevant, yeah. Pitch clock is New World
12:27
Baseball Classic. Here's here's Wilson Contreras.
12:30
I'm gonna, I'm not gonna go. Everybody else did.
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He should have went too. Because hell, if every pitcher's
12:35
gonna go, what does it matter if he's there?
12:37
That's no catching. Can I say like catching AAA
12:40
guys? Hate hearing that as the excuse.
12:42
I still think that's the biggest one that started it because when
12:46
they had all of these other things, they didn't have the
12:48
immediate rebound to, like have that foundation to bounce back
12:52
from the things that were going wrong because they didn't
12:54
coalesce and come together and spring like a normal team would.
12:57
Again, Ollie Marvel, during the season when it would get brought
13:00
up, was very careful that you could tell that he wanted to say
13:03
more than he could because he knew how it would sound.
13:05
And that's savvy of him. Cardinals fans won't respect
13:07
that, but that's savvy of him. But I buy into it and say that
13:11
had an impact to where when the snowball began rolling down the
13:14
hill, they didn't have the foundation within there to stop
13:17
it. But you're right, like the
13:18
coaching factor, don't you think?
13:19
Mike Maddox being around. Not a knock on Dusty, but it's a
13:22
factor of experience and wisdom. Could it could he have had a
13:25
guiding hand to steady that ship with a brand new catcher in in
13:29
April? Maybe.
13:30
So You just didn't have any of the things you needed.
13:33
Adam Wainwright wasn't the Adam Wainwright that we know because
13:36
he was hurt and then couldn't pitch well because he was still
13:38
hurt. All of those things had an
13:40
impact. But I I like talking about the
13:42
World Baseball Classic thing because I think when we get to
13:44
spring, you're going to sense a difference.
13:46
Because that's not going to be a factor.
13:48
I don't know if people buy that. People might call it excuse
13:50
making, but I actually think it's real.
13:52
Yeah, and then here's the other part to me.
13:55
Sometimes we assess blame. Oh, it's either Contreras's
13:58
fault or the pitcher's fault. It was everybody's fault.
14:01
And that's why two things can be, can be true at the same
14:05
time. Did the pitching staff throw
14:07
Wilson Contreras under the bus, specifically publicly?
14:11
What we what we heard with Jack Flaherty.
14:13
You mentioned Montgomery wanting to throw to Kisner.
14:17
Yes, I right. You can you can kind of go
14:20
through the game logs and you can you can extrapolate there.
14:23
Do I think Jack Flaherty handled that well?
14:25
No. Do I believe him after the fact
14:27
when he's trying to sanitize the record?
14:29
No. But I get why he's doing it.
14:31
Here's the other part though. Let's not take this also totally
14:35
off the plate of Wilson Contreras.
14:37
Wilson Contreras was doing something that was so bad that
14:43
nobody wanted to throw it in. That's essentially what
14:46
happened. What happened was it was a
14:48
mutiny from the starting pitchers and they said something
14:51
has to change to a point. I've never seen this in my life,
14:55
but they took a guy who's 7-8 years in the big leagues and
14:58
said you cannot catch. Even though you've caught for
15:01
6-7 years, you cannot catch in the big leagues for eight days.
15:05
So two things can be true. At the same time, Flaherty
15:08
should have handled it better. I mean, first of all, the
15:11
pitcher should have pitched better.
15:12
That's that's the biggest part. But Wilson Contreras?
15:15
Meatballs they were throwing. I mean, that was the thing,
15:18
really. OK, but hold on, hold on.
15:19
All the other stuff. But Wilson Contreras was also
15:23
doing something that was so odd. I've never seen this in my life.
15:27
I'm 41 years old. I've never seen any catcher on
15:30
any team be taken out of the line up for eight days to clean
15:34
things up. So he must been doing something
15:36
also that was really not on the same page.
15:38
Let's be real. And I think some of that, like
15:41
the reporting that then came out, I don't remember if it was
15:44
like Michael Kay when they played the Yankees or something,
15:46
but that there was maybe like a pitch calm angle to all of this.
15:49
And like imagine like the the the reporting that he came up
15:53
with was, he said, oh, I talked to some Cardinals people and
15:56
they explained it, that he was calling pitches that certain
15:58
pitchers didn't throw. But like Pitchcom is a
16:00
relatively new thing. And if you're pressing a button
16:03
on there that is a button designated for whatever pitch in
16:06
the guy that's out there on the mound is like, I don't even know
16:08
what that what do you. I don't even know what that is.
16:11
And you've got a pitch clock as well that you have to, you got
16:14
to throw a pitch within you know the 20 seconds you can see how
16:17
there could be some discord there and some people not on the
16:19
same page. So maybe that it was as simple
16:21
as that. Maybe there were some other
16:23
things going on. But you're right, like what
16:25
would have been best is everybody to come together, come
16:27
together in a very team oriented way, take some responsibility
16:30
for their roles instead of pointing fingers at each other.
16:33
I feel like Wilson got all the fingers pointed at him and then
16:35
how did he react within that? Like, publicly he was a St.
16:38
about it, but like, privately, that had hurt.
16:41
Because you're like, I'm trying to do my best here, but I'm not,
16:43
you know, there's something that's not clicking.
16:45
And so while I think responsibility could have gone
16:47
all the way around, the hurt feelings might have came from
16:50
the fact that one guy felt like you.
16:52
It was all being pinned on him for whatever amount of
16:55
responsibility he had. That could not be a good feeling
16:58
when you're in your first month with a new team.
17:01
Yeah, another part of this and I'm I'm just kind of going off
17:03
on a tangent but there's there's also there's reasons that guys
17:07
don't get contracts from their previous teams.
17:11
All right. I mean Wilson Contreras can hit.
17:12
We we know he was never a great defensive catcher but he wasn't
17:15
terrible. He was serviceable.
17:17
The the Cubs did not want to sign Wilson Contreras.
17:20
I think something we also need to bring up is, you know, Wilson
17:24
Contreras as a winning catcher in his 30s, that's that's still
17:29
something that we need to figure out if if he's a guy who can
17:33
catch 100 and 10115 games and lead a staff, lead a winning
17:38
staff. Right.
17:39
It's it's fair to wonder that. And I think when you move on
17:42
from Kisner, the 50 game backup, I mean would it be crazy to see
17:46
even next year if it's more of a timeshare with Herrera, if
17:49
Herrera hit. So I I think, I think Wilson
17:53
Contreras got thrown under the bus.
17:55
But also he was doing something so, so poorly and so odd in the
18:00
scheme of baseball. They just don't do that.
18:03
You don't do that. You don't say we're gonna make
18:05
him an outfielder. You don't pull him for eight
18:07
days unless something is really, really bad.
18:11
I mean, there had to be some things going on, right?
18:12
We've kind of hinted at what we think some of them might have
18:14
been. Will we ever know the full
18:16
story? Perhaps not.
18:17
What I think is interesting though with the Kisner angle is
18:20
that that's a guy that signed with the Rangers this offseason
18:24
after the Cardinals non tendered him, signed a Major League deal
18:27
for almost 2 million with the old Cardinals pitching coach who
18:30
just won a World Series. And when I tweeted about that,
18:32
just kind of, I thought it was interesting that that's where he
18:34
ends up with a nice little contract for the season.
18:37
People were ripping me like, oh you're you just hate the
18:40
Cardinals. I'm like, I just think it's
18:42
interesting to point out because everybody talked about, you
18:44
know, you look at Cardinals fans and they're not too hip to Dusty
18:47
Blake. I think it'd be interesting to
18:49
give him a chance this year and see how Year 2 looks a little
18:51
bit different with another year of experience under his belt.
18:54
But it's very interesting to me that the, the guy that goes to
18:58
another team, wins the World Series, then says, hey, that
19:00
catcher from Saint Louis is pretty good, we should get him
19:02
on our staff. I just thought was notable.
19:05
And the Cardinals, I feel like almost made the decision because
19:08
part of it last year was, yeah, maybe pitchers were asking,
19:10
yeah, I'd rather throw to Kisner, which is like a a nice
19:13
compliment to kids. But if the Cardinals have
19:16
another plane in place where like, we we did pay Contreras.
19:19
And even though that stuff happened at the beginning of the
19:21
year, we do kind of need him to to take the load here at the
19:24
catcher position the next few seasons.
19:26
We can't, we can't keep having this sort of preferential stuff
19:29
coming from the pitching staff. We'll take away the toy and we
19:33
like this kid Herrera and he's going to come in and and be an
19:36
important part. Like Mosaic said, we wanted to
19:39
to play. We wanted to catch.
19:40
I would be surprised if both guys fully healthy.
19:43
If Herrera isn't starting 5060 games this year at a minimum,
19:48
like I I do think it's already going to be more of that split
19:51
and they'll keep contrarison with DH opportunities, etcetera.
19:54
But yeah, it's really interesting the dynamic of you
19:57
had this catcher that everybody wanted to throw to last year and
19:59
now the organization said our plan is that that guy's not
20:02
going to be on the team anymore because we kind of need to go
20:05
all in on on what the current plan is going to be.
20:09
How about this argument? Go back to the Tony Larussa
20:11
days. Veteran managers, One World
20:14
Series, you got Dave Duncan, arguably the greatest pitching
20:17
coach we've ever seen. You had Mark McGwire at the
20:20
time. He has cachet.
20:22
You got folks like Dave McKay, veteran coaching staff.
20:25
How about the argument that this coaching staff, Ollie, Dusty,
20:30
Blake, Turner, Ward, a lot of new guys, you bring in Daniel
20:34
Discalso, how about the argument and people are bringing this up.
20:37
I think it's fair that this particular coaching staff, it's
20:40
not Tony Larousse's coaching staff.
20:41
Maybe this coaching staff does need more player veteran
20:47
leadership to counterbalance a young staff.
20:50
I don't even know if I believe that, but I think it's a fair
20:52
talking point. It's probably one that we bring
20:54
up when a team loses, but I think there's something there
20:57
potentially. Yeah.
20:58
I mean, I could see the point of view.
20:59
I just think like when you think about adversity, a veteran
21:03
coaching staff is going to have that wealth of experience to
21:07
know how to handle adversity compared to a coaching staff
21:10
that hasn't been in that position at the big league level
21:12
altogether before. And that's kind of what you saw
21:15
last year where everybody was in relatively new roles And I think
21:20
underrated is maybe the the value of a good bench coach.
21:23
Which is not to say that Mceuing is a bad one, because he's been
21:26
one a long time in this league. But he also wasn't maybe the
21:29
right bench coach for last year's team, but it was.
21:32
He was the one that they kind of had to settle upon when Matt
21:35
Holiday took the job and then said no thank you.
21:37
So that kind of put him in a bit of a bind where I liken it to,
21:40
if you're playing like an old school 2005 MLB video game on
21:45
your PlayStation and you get a little notification pop up in
21:48
franchise mode that says, hey, your bench coach is retired, you
21:50
need to pick a new one, you go, I don't really think I care
21:53
about that. So I'll just go to the top of
21:54
the list of like the free agent bench coaches and it'll say like
21:57
Jay Mcewing there because he's been around and has done it.
22:00
And you just plug him in and say all right on with the the rest
22:03
of the day. That's kind of how it felt like
22:05
for the Cardinals last year. And I don't think it was
22:07
anybody's fault in particular, but I just get the sense it
22:09
like, all right, with a full offseason to really get to pick
22:13
our guy, you know, it was just obvious that they were going to
22:16
go in a different direction. And I feel like the camaraderie
22:18
with Ollie Marmel and Daniel Descalso is going to be such
22:21
that maybe you do gain a little bit more cohesiveness from that
22:26
coaching unit than you had last year.
22:29
But as far as, like, experience, yeah, you could say there's an
22:32
experience deficit in in having guys who've been around the
22:35
block when the coaches maybe haven't necessarily been in the
22:39
roles that they're in. It probably can't hurt.
22:41
And maybe that's part of what the Cardinals are doing here
22:43
with the the moves that they're making.
22:45
All right, it's time to hold you accountable now, OK?
22:48
Because Twitter was going crazy. When I say crazy, that means I
22:53
think one or two people said, hey Brendan, how can you love
22:57
this Matt Carpenter move so much?
22:59
Is is that a fair characterization?
23:00
Because I looked at your tweets, it did seem like you were very
23:04
pro. This move may maybe the most pro
23:08
I I've seen of people. So again, I'm going to hold you
23:11
accountable. Explain yourself.
23:13
Explain yourself why you love this Matt Carpenter move so
23:15
much. Yeah, I think my first tweet
23:17
when it happened was, am I crazy To think the Matt Carpenter
23:19
thing is great And a lot of the replies said yes, you very much
23:23
are. And then I, and then even before
23:26
the John Mosalak presser, I then kind of thought about, all
23:29
right, what's the, what's the angle here for the Cardinals.
23:32
And I think I tweeted something to the effect of, you know, we
23:35
know the Cardinals are chasing veteran leadership.
23:38
When Carpenter was here last time, he came attached to a
23:41
prohibitive contract and the expectation of playing time.
23:44
None of those things are here now.
23:46
And the fact that he's got kind of the cardinal way in his
23:49
blood. He knows what it looks like to
23:50
win in Saint Louis. And I simply said I could see
23:53
it. Like, I could see that those are
23:54
the boxes they've wanted check because they've told us, not
23:57
because we outside think that that's the only way to win.
24:01
A lot of people would say get talented players and you'll
24:02
probably win. But we know that this is what
24:04
the Cardinals are after because they've done it three other
24:07
times this offseason with the pitchers that they brought in,
24:09
right. And so that was sort of my my
24:11
logic and my angle on it. And then I simply said I love it
24:15
for the same reason that Charlie loves when there's, you know,
24:18
clubhouse discord that he gets to talk about on YouTube.
24:20
I think it is chaotic and fantastic and just like the I
24:23
knew what the reaction would be. I knew that it would be a a
24:26
strong reaction from Cardinals fans and I continue to explain
24:29
to people I am not in a position in my life where I was in 2011
24:33
as a senior in high school, where I lived and died with
24:35
whether the Cardinals won. I think it's great.
24:37
When they do well, I want them to do well.
24:39
Does this move automatically lead to five more wins this
24:42
season? I don't think it does, and it
24:44
doesn't bother me. I don't lose sleep over the fact
24:47
that it maybe isn't the most effective use of their roster.
24:50
And I like the Matt Carpenters around because I just think it's
24:52
kind of fun. So I I think my the context of
24:55
that is my position on this is not the Cardinals have got to
25:00
win the World Series this year or I'm a sad boy.
25:02
It's let you know let's have some chaos because it makes life
25:05
more interesting. And people may not love that
25:07
explanation, but that is kind of where I was coming from.
25:10
Yeah, and you mentioned the the roster part of it.
25:13
I found that maybe the funniest part after I watched or listened
25:18
to John Mosalak and it was on your YouTube channel because it
25:21
was almost like now it seems like the narrative is the 26th
25:25
man doesn't even matter, right? It's funny to me because every
25:28
spring training we have fun on the radio and hey, what's the
25:32
roster? Who's going to be on the bench?
25:33
Who's in the bullpen, who's the 26th man?
25:36
It almost came across. As John Mosley said, well, it's
25:38
the 26th man. I'm used to 25 man roster.
25:42
This is kind of a freebie. And look, you have to pay
25:44
somebody the big league minimum anyway.
25:47
Carpenter's making 7740. The Braves are paying most of
25:50
that. But I do find it funny that now
25:52
we're basically saying it doesn't really matter.
25:54
It can be 1/2 coach, half leadership.
25:57
He gets a couple of bats, by the way, anybody who's saying these
26:00
at bats aren't coming from someone else, that's just wrong.
26:03
They are. Even if it's 150 at bats.
26:05
Those are coming from other people.
26:07
Just so everybody knows. I just find it funny that that
26:10
now the 26th man on the roster doesn't matter.
26:12
And this is another tangent. I've always thought the 26th man
26:16
on the roster should be what I call AI.
26:18
Wrote this down. A DFGA designated fast guy.
26:23
It should only be a dude who just look.
26:26
Can you even hit? Can you drop a bunt?
26:28
You steal a bag? You you pinch run.
26:32
It's fun. Designated fast guy.
26:34
I'm thinking of Chambers. Adrian Chambers, Somebody like
26:39
that to add a little juice to a roster, but now it's like it's
26:44
the 26th man. Who cares?
26:45
He's kind of a coach. I just found that kind of funny.
26:47
I think it is funny. I think it is a great way that
26:51
you would explain this away if you wanted to make it look
26:53
better than other people think. It is the decision to have Matt
26:57
Carpenter back. Look like the 26th Man is so,
27:00
you know, so valuable that I think it just probably came
27:02
together at Jackson Holiday's wedding.
27:04
Did you see the picture of all the you know that that's
27:07
probably where it happens. So they go you know what would
27:08
be great if we just had you back this year?
27:10
Wouldn't that be fun? Well, the veterans told me that
27:12
they wanted him, so we got him like that's again if you wanted
27:15
to take a simplistic view and and do some dot connecting it.
27:18
It's kind of a funny way to look at it but so yeah, I could the
27:22
26 man be used in a different way.
27:24
Sure they could go out and sign somebody that they pay 5 or $6
27:27
million to that's you know got good numbers last season and
27:31
could contribute. But this also is kind of the
27:33
perfect out for the Cardinals to not spend more money because
27:36
they can say, wow, this is they really wanted the veteran.
27:38
The clubhouse felt that they needed it and this one so
27:41
happens to be the Major League minimum.
27:43
It rather than go out and sign a veteran that's going to cost 6
27:46
or $8 million. It's kind of like a good little
27:49
out for the Cardinals to where they don't have to.
27:52
If they can explain why they did this, and people may not agree,
27:54
but it least is an explanation that kind of lines up where they
27:58
don't, they're not being looked at like, well, why in the heck
28:01
did you not spend? It's like, well, the clubhouse
28:02
really wanted this veteran, so we had to go get him.
28:05
Yeah, and Speaking of Jackson Holiday, we had Matt Holiday on
28:08
the radio show. Was that yesterday?
28:10
Hot Take Central Five Night of the Fan, Brendan's in on on
28:13
Fridays. Matt Carpenter is at the the
28:16
Holiday compound there around Stillwater to hit with with Matt
28:22
Holiday. So Matt Holiday was talking
28:23
about that and working with Carp and trying to fix some things
28:27
and he's saying you know the exit velos are there where there
28:29
could be an improvement. So, so we'll see.
28:31
I don't think he's going to hit 180 again but maybe whatever he
28:34
gives you offensively, OK, he's he's probably going to have a
28:37
couple nice moments, hit a home run here, draw a walk, whatever
28:39
it is. But when I was talking with Matt
28:43
Holiday and here's where maybe we'll transition to something
28:46
else, because I was, I was thinking as we're doing this
28:48
show, this is the time of year where there's not a lot going
28:50
on. He just talked for for 30
28:52
minutes about Matt Carpenter. But as I was thinking about that
28:55
Matt Holiday falls off the Hall of Fame ballot in his first
29:00
year. He gets four votes.
29:01
And I think that's fair, to be honest.
29:04
But just Hall of Fame voting in general.
29:06
I don't know. I don't know how much you pay
29:07
attention, how much you care about it.
29:09
But I just kind of look at it and I scratched my head a little
29:12
bit with some of these alleged PED guys and I wonder why some
29:17
guys, their vote total increases and others don't.
29:22
If I was voting, I'd probably have to say either I let none of
29:25
them in or I let all of them in. The one that really jumps out to
29:29
me is or I guess there's two. But if we're talking about
29:33
alleged PE DS, like why is a Rod and Manny Ramirez?
29:39
Why are they not going up as as steadily as Gary Sheffield, for
29:45
example? Make that make sense to me?
29:47
And they've got better numbers, right?
29:49
Like more home runs, more impressive careers.
29:52
I and you'd have to maybe remind me the circumstances surrounding
29:55
Sheffield. I know.
29:56
And we talked about this on on my radio show in Columbia the
29:59
other day too, where it's like there's some there's some
30:03
history of it with with Sheffield.
30:04
I don't specifically remember when it was, but a lot of
30:07
voters, and I'm in BBWAAI cannot vote on the Hall of Fame until
30:10
10 years of of service in the organization which will be a
30:14
while yet to come. But I know that a lot of folks
30:16
with the way that they vote, they view it as guys who were
30:21
found to have been involved in PE DS after Major League
30:24
Baseball, kind of took the hard line stance after McGuire, after
30:27
Sosa, after Raphael Palmero and all that.
30:30
Those are the guys that they say you knew that that was like
30:32
specifically a rule in Major League Baseball.
30:34
You did. You did a suspension for it
30:36
anyway because you just kind of shirked the rules later on.
30:39
And so like those guys don't get the the same benefit of the
30:42
doubt. Sheffield now to be clear still
30:44
didn't get in and that was his last year on the ballot.
30:46
So he's he's done in terms of like the writers are not going
30:49
to be able to put him in if Gary Sheffield is ever to make it
30:52
it's going to come from you know the the other ways that they do
30:55
that the veterans committee down the road.
30:57
But I think that might be the distinction that a lot of
30:59
writers do take is when, when were your your associations with
31:03
PE DS and was it like before or after the notion of Major League
31:08
Baseball said like don't do this like McGuire was before, right.
31:11
Like technically they they didn't have a a rule in place
31:15
where they said you can't do this type of whatever he was
31:17
doing. But if of course everybody kind
31:20
of knew like OK, that's not cool to be doing even though a lot of
31:24
players were doing it. So I think that's kind of the
31:26
line and the distinction. Me personally, I would have had
31:29
Gary Sheffield voted in, but I also would have a hard time not
31:32
voting in a Rod or Manny Ramirez.
31:34
But that's kind of like the morality angle that a lot of
31:37
folks would say they they were just too far removed from, like
31:43
the timeline of when all of that took place.
31:46
Yeah, if I was voting, I I like to think about it like this.
31:50
For the Hall of Fame, I have 3 buckets always.
31:52
Like the the bucket analogy, my buckets are you say the name,
31:56
you go Hall of Famer. My other bucket is you say the
32:00
name and you say not a Hall of Famer.
32:03
So there's a, there's just a couple people in that first
32:06
bucket. You say the name Boom Hall of
32:08
Famer, right? Derek Jeter.
32:10
There's a million people in the bucket where you say not a Hall
32:14
of Famer, but then there's a nice solid percentage.
32:16
And I would put somebody like Matt Holiday in there where you
32:19
go not a surefire Hall of Famer, not a not Hall of Famer, but
32:25
let's have a conversation. And I think it's fair that Matt
32:27
Holiday fell off the ballot, but I bring this up because when I
32:31
look at the guys that got in and and by the way, I don't really
32:34
care that much. But I do feel like we're kind of
32:37
starting over the last five, 1015 years to let everybody in,
32:42
right? Because what I'm seeing is, and
32:45
I'm not trying to take anything away from Adrian Beltrade, Todd
32:48
Hilton, Joe Mauer, like those surefire guys where you go,
32:52
boom, they're in Cal Ripken, whoever, George Brett, Tony
32:55
Gwynn, guys that were thinking about coming up.
32:58
Now this has all gotten very muddied with the steroid guys,
33:02
but I I really feel like now we're kind of putting everybody
33:06
in. And it's a lot of guys that I
33:08
think are OK. They're probably Hall of
33:11
Farmers. I'm not going to be mad about
33:12
it, don't get me wrong. But they're not those names,
33:15
like, boom, they're Hall of Farmers.
33:17
You know, Babe Ruth, Ted Williams.
33:19
It seems like we're putting kind of everybody.
33:23
I I do think there's a fair argument to be made that we're
33:25
we're making this the Hall of very good.
33:28
What do you think about that? I think another angle of it
33:30
that's interesting is when you look at the guys like Beltre and
33:34
Mauer that get in on the first ballot, that it used to be where
33:37
voters would kind of look at a guy and say they'd have almost a
33:41
fourth bucket Charlie, where they'd say is this guy a Hall of
33:43
Famer? Yeah, probably so.
33:44
But not this year like first, first ballot, that's reserved
33:48
for the greats of the great. Whereas now I feel like, and I
33:51
don't know if that's voter demographic, skewing a little
33:54
younger and saying, my logic on this is if the guy's a Hall of
33:58
Famer I'm going to vote for in the first year that I'm eligible
34:00
to do so. I'm not going to have like a
34:02
gatekeeping of, well, he's a Hall of Famer, but not till next
34:05
year because I only such and such guys are deserving of being
34:08
first ballot. But like knowing that that's
34:11
kind of historically how it's been, I was surprised that Joe
34:14
Mauer got in already. Not that eventually he would be
34:17
one, but you think about the guys that had to like tick up in
34:20
percentages for six or seven years before they got their due.
34:24
It's interesting that Joe Mauer goes right in.
34:26
I don't know if that's part of the changing of the times or
34:28
what it is. Adrian Beltre, I mean, he had
34:30
three thousand hits. He he played for a long time and
34:32
was really good. I wasn't that surprised to see
34:35
him go in on the first ballot just because I do think that
34:38
3000 hit kind of threshold is important.
34:41
And then at that point a lot of guys are, unless there's some
34:44
other reason that a guy's going to be held out at that point, it
34:47
makes sense to have him in. But yeah, I like Todd Hilton.
34:52
It feels like a name where I'm like, yeah, it makes sense that
34:53
he's a Hall of Famer, but then you kind of go and look at the
34:55
numbers and you go well. He didn't really hit a lot of
34:56
home runs, but he was a great hitter.
34:59
His OPS of like 950 for his career, they held against him.
35:02
The Coors Field aspect of that for a long time.
35:05
Like you, you feel bad saying it's getting watered down just
35:08
because a lot of these guys that are going in were obviously
35:10
really great players. But it does kind of feel like it
35:13
feels like what you're saying. A little bit is the case.
35:16
And I don't know if that's a bad thing or a good thing.
35:18
But it it, it almost feels like once one guy gets in that you
35:21
can then compare later generations and say, well, if
35:23
that guy's in, this guy's got to be in.
35:25
Look, they're the same player that may be contributing to it a
35:28
little bit. That's.
35:30
Where I go with this more so than just so everybody knows.
35:33
I'm not trying to denigrate the guys that got in, but I feel
35:37
like when you're kind of letting almost every very good player
35:41
in, then you do open it up to a lot of guys where you can go,
35:45
well, wait, that dude's numbers are the exact same and and he's
35:48
not in. And the one I brought up
35:50
yesterday with Matt Holiday is like Andrew Jones versus Jim
35:55
Edmonds. I mean if you look at their
35:56
numbers, they're, I don't want to say they're exactly the same
35:59
player, but they're pretty damn close of elite Gold Glove center
36:02
fielder, power OPS. Edmonds is better.
36:06
The WAR is within a couple. I think it's 60 to 62, whatever
36:09
it is. And so, so basically the fact
36:12
that Edmonds falls off on the first ballot, which is insane,
36:16
and Andrew Jones now has almost 62% of the vote, that makes no
36:20
sense. The people who are clamoring for
36:22
like the Dale Murphy's of the world.
36:23
And I'm not even saying that Dale Murphy should or shouldn't
36:26
get in. But I feel like when you put so
36:28
many people in that are just probably very good, then there's
36:33
and maybe this is the fun of it because now you can make a case
36:35
for a lot of other people. My last, my last thought on this
36:37
before I throw it back to you is when I started this and I said
36:40
basically you run down the names.
36:42
You say who's a surefire boom Hall of Famer of these names?
36:45
This is my opinion. And Beltre Beltre is very good,
36:48
but he was also never Beltre to me was never as good as Manny
36:52
Ramirez. Beltre was never as good as a
36:55
Rod. So when I say Adrian Beltre,
36:57
Todd Hilton, Joe Mauer, Billy Wagner, Gary Sheffield, Andrew
37:00
Jones, Carlos Beltran, Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez.
37:03
The only two guys to me that I think when I hear their names
37:07
are surefire, Hall of Farmers are the two guys with the lowest
37:10
vote total from that bucket. And that's a Rod and Manny
37:13
Ramirez. And I think that's kind of odd.
37:15
Would you vote them in though, knowing the steroids are like,
37:17
what would your stance be on steroid guys?
37:19
Because every voter kind of has to make that decision.
37:22
At this point, because I feel like steroids guys are already
37:25
in and I'm not going to sit there and tell you exactly who I
37:28
think, but I would. There are definitely 1000%
37:33
steroids guys in the Hall of Fame right now.
37:36
And if they're in, I'm putting the other guys in.
37:39
Especially if. I mean, you can make the case.
37:42
I mean, a rod's numbers are insane.
37:44
I don't like a rod as a person. He did a lot of shady stuff.
37:46
He cheated a lot. Do you think that's part of it?
37:48
People just don't. But I mean, also Manny Ramirez.
37:52
Come on, dude. Manny Ramirez with the Red Sox.
37:54
I mean, clutch RBIs, ridiculous numbers.
37:58
Manny Ramirez is a fantastic player, so big poppies in Manny
38:02
Ramirez isn't. Like goes in immediately and I
38:05
don't know what's saying, I don't know if there's ever any
38:07
steroid stuff with big Poppy. I I I don't think anything was
38:09
certainly like I'm saying I don't believe there was, but I
38:14
was a kid with a lot of that, so I wasn't necessarily following
38:17
it super closely all the time. If there was, it would have only
38:20
been whispers and never anything that was shown.
38:22
And again, I don't have any reason to believe that that he
38:24
was involved in any of that. But everybody loved Big Papi,
38:28
right? Like personality wise, everybody
38:30
loved him. Hold on, yeah, because I don't
38:33
have a great memory, but this is from USA TODAY, so this is from
38:39
2022. That big PAPI tested positive
38:45
when it was an anonymous. OK, Sports Illustrated revealed
38:49
details of the O3 results that were intended to remain private,
38:53
that 104 players tested positive that long suspected Sammy Sosa
38:58
came up positive, as did the transcendent Alex Rodriguez.
39:02
I thought Big Papi was in that. OK, Ortiz, you see, tested
39:06
positive for a banned substance during ostensibly anonymous
39:10
survey testing in 2003. So that's that's the thing for
39:13
Big Papi. Right.
39:14
So is there a narrative thing that's unfair to certain
39:17
players, but is it's kind of washed away for others because
39:20
people want it to be? And I'm not.
39:22
I don't want to denigrate any specific riders because I'm.
39:24
I'm part of this writers group. I don't get to vote on this yet.
39:28
You're. The problem?
39:29
But if I were like, thinking about it from that perspective,
39:31
I would be like, all right, if there was a even a whisper about
39:34
David Ortiz, why were we so ready to vote him in right away?
39:38
Is it because Manny Ramirez was not as the the personality you
39:42
know he had some some run in some people didn't like him a
39:45
rod. I mean a lot of people don't
39:46
like him. For me it's almost easier
39:49
because I didn't actually cover those players ever during their
39:52
playing career. So I'd be like, I don't know, I
39:54
didn't I didn't talk to him. I didn't have any negative with
39:57
him. So they're probably in because
39:58
look at their numbers. Like that's why I wonder if it's
40:00
for younger voters a little easier.
40:02
Because you and and people, I believe that most of the writers
40:06
would really strive to not have bias.
40:09
Kind of come into their voting. You'd you'd hate to think that
40:11
that would be part of it. But like is it easier for folks
40:14
who didn't have as close of a relationship or they didn't get
40:18
screwed over by a guy to say, yeah, I'm going to vote.
40:20
I would vote him in because I don't have that negative thing
40:23
in the back of my mind. I don't know if that's what's
40:25
going on. But I agree with you.
40:27
If you list off all those names, I think there's some worthy ones
40:30
like I think Carlos Beltran gets in, will get in, probably would
40:33
already be in if not for the science dealing stuff that he
40:35
was part of. But that's more recent and
40:37
people take some time to say I care about that and that's bad.
40:40
And then they're like, I actually don't care about that
40:41
anymore. I'm going to vote him in year
40:42
seven with the guys like Manny and A Rod.
40:45
They're they don't have a high enough vote total to where
40:47
they're ever going to get put in by the writers.
40:49
But if I had a vote and people might say, oh you the ethical,
40:52
whatever, I probably would put him in for the same reason that
40:55
you're saying like if any of these other guys that are in
40:57
already also were involved in steroids.
41:00
Is it just because they were not not a Dick to people and so you
41:04
you like? What is the the rationale I
41:06
think is a fair thing to ask. I do think what you mentioned is
41:09
true in terms of time heals all wounds back in the day.
41:12
Did I care more? Oh, they're they're disgracing
41:15
the baseball record book, which I I I still believe, but I just
41:19
don't care as much. I'm 41.
41:21
I have kids. I just, I just don't care as
41:23
much. And when these guys, you know,
41:25
there is that, that public, I keep using the word
41:28
sanitization. But, like, they rebrand
41:31
themselves. You do some TV, you become a
41:33
hitting coach like Mark McGuire. You apologize.
41:36
You get older, you do some charity, you get fat.
41:39
You see him, you see him at Old Timers Day.
41:41
You're like, Oh yeah, they cheated, but now he's 55 years
41:44
old. Put him in.
41:45
It means a lot. I get that.
41:47
I just don't really care that much.
41:48
I know we're going to, we're talking about this for 1520
41:50
minutes. I truly don't really care that
41:52
much, but I do think it's interesting.
41:54
It's not an easy thing for the writers.
41:57
I just think. I think they're really kind of
41:59
putting themselves in a weird spot by being picky and choosy
42:02
with some PED guys. And that's the other thing is
42:05
like, it's hard to paint with a broad brush and say, well, the
42:08
writers, because you've got some writers and they've, they've
42:10
changed the policies on this. But for a while, it was like
42:13
even if you hadn't covered baseball in decades, as long as
42:16
you you qualified back in the day, you still had a chance to
42:19
vote. Now I think you have to have
42:20
covered the game within a certain number of years before
42:23
then you you eventually do kind of retire from the Hall of Fame
42:26
ballot, but then you've also got, you know, younger folks
42:28
that are just getting in and now they're getting an opportunity
42:31
to vote. How different are they from the
42:34
person that's decades their senior that saw baseball
42:37
differently? It's it.
42:37
There's a generation gap that it it all coalesces into what the
42:42
voting percentage is. And so people look at that and
42:44
say, oh the writers. But like there there are a lot
42:47
of different demographics represented when you talk about
42:49
the writers that it's not really like A1 size fits all thing.
42:54
And then there's the aspect of, like the writers have voted
42:57
multiple times overwhelmingly to have it enforced that all the
43:01
the the public ballots are released, everybody's ballot is
43:04
released. But the Hall of Fame itself has
43:07
said, no, we don't want it, we don't want to do that, even
43:09
though the writers voted to have it happen.
43:11
So now it's up to each individual writer to say I'll be
43:13
responsible for what my vote is and I'm going to tell everybody
43:16
so that if anybody has a problem with it, they can at least know
43:19
who voted for who, who didn't vote for whom.
43:21
And and a lot of writers do release that, but not all of
43:23
them do. So that's kind of part of the
43:25
angle as well of when people get mad about Hall of Fame stuff.
43:28
That is another thing that goes into the bucket, if you will.
43:31
So maybe Cardinal fans will get mad about this and maybe this
43:33
will be our last topic unless we think of something else.
43:35
But you brought up Joe Mauer. Joe Mauer gets 76.1% of the vote
43:42
on his first ballot and he gets in along with Adrian Beltre and
43:45
Todd Help. But I think this is interesting
43:48
because obviously couple what couple 3-4 years from now Yadi
43:53
or Molina will be on the ballot. Do you think there's a chance
43:56
Yadi or Molina doesn't go in on the first ballot?
43:59
And I bring it up because Joe Mauer just got in barely his his
44:04
career wars 55.2. Yadi's I think is let me let me
44:08
find it, Yadi's is 42.1, obviously different players.
44:12
Mauer much better offensively. Yadi much better defensively.
44:17
What do you think about that? Any Any chance you think Yadi
44:19
doesn't get in first ballot? Did Ozzie Smith go in on the
44:22
first ballot or was he on there for a while?
44:26
I was. I was too young to know the
44:28
answer to that. Like it feels like there's a
44:30
comparison to be made there because Yadi was very much
44:33
renowned as a defense first player, had some clutch moments
44:37
and really turned himself into a nice hitter by by the end, you
44:40
know, by the middle of his career.
44:41
And then had had some numbers that he was able to put up.
44:44
But like that's kind of a comparison that you might draw
44:46
because nobody would question that, that Ozzie Smith is a Hall
44:48
of Famer. But you know it wasn't
44:52
necessarily because of his offense.
44:53
You think of the go crazy folks and maybe the clutch moments.
44:56
But like, he was the wizard he was defensively the best there
45:00
there ever was And Yachty to a lot of folks is the best there
45:05
ever was defensively as a catcher.
45:06
And like how what does it do for his Hall of Fame criteria that
45:11
you see the Cardinals absolutely go in the tank the year that he
45:14
leaves and then the first thing they do is bring him back in
45:16
whatever capacity he's willing. You want to be here full time,
45:19
that's fine. We'll take you.
45:20
Just wait. Whatever you want to do.
45:21
Yadi like, we'll bring you back. Like I I think that kind of
45:24
speaks to it. So he should be a first ballot
45:26
Hall of Famer in my opinion. The fact that Joe Mauer does get
45:28
in on the first ballot I think helps because if he doesn't then
45:31
you could have people make the case.
45:32
It's like well, Mallory even had to wait his turn.
45:35
He had more war. Like what do people look at?
45:37
I don't there's a lot of criteria I if I had to guess I
45:40
think he does get in on the first ballot.
45:42
But I wouldn't put that at like 100% confidence interval like
45:45
it. There's a chance that you you've
45:47
already heard in the conversational ramp up the
45:49
closer his his name gets to being on that ballot.
45:52
But a lot of writers that are not from around here, you know,
45:55
not NL Central guys or Saint Louis based writers will be on
46:00
those, you know, those coastal elitist Charlie.
46:03
They'll look at it and say, I mean with these numbers, why did
46:05
it? It's just those Cardinals fans,
46:07
man, they think this guy's so good, they're so annoying.
46:10
I'm just not going to vote for him the first time.
46:11
Maybe later I will like, is there maybe going to be some of
46:14
that sentiment? I don't know.
46:16
It's going to be the most fascinating discussion in terms
46:20
of like that we've had in in, I don't know, a long, long time in
46:23
terms of Hall of Fame because there are going to be a lot of
46:26
people that I think are like, yeah, obviously he's a Hall of
46:28
Famer. They're going to be some vocal
46:30
people that say he's not and they'll use the the, the
46:32
offensive numbers as the argument and it's going to be a
46:35
firestorm. That is my prediction.
46:37
I think he probably squeaks in on the first ballot, but if he
46:40
doesn't, just imagine the carnage.
46:42
I mean, it's going to be crazy. Yeah, I'm seeing Ozzie Smith
46:45
2002 gets in with 91.7% of the vote.
46:50
So I. Think he was probably first
46:51
ballot if that was the case, right?
46:53
That was 2002. His last year was 1996, so I
46:58
think that's right. So I I think what's interesting
47:01
though, and you brought up Ozzie Smith and I only say this just
47:04
because I think it's kind of a a decent conversation piece to me.
47:07
The difference though is that Ozzie Smith had a much greater
47:12
national profile because of not just go crazy folks, but because
47:17
of the flip, right. You grew up, you're watching
47:20
This Week in baseball. You would always see Ozzie Smith
47:24
making these unbelievable, acrobatic plays all over the
47:29
highlights, all over. Sports Center Ozzy Smith had
47:32
this national profile. He was flashy.
47:35
You just, you remember. You remember moments go crazy
47:38
folks. The flips and the great plays.
47:41
I think Yadi it's much more nuanced and that's where you you
47:45
really appreciate Yadi more when you did watch him.
47:48
I understand why somebody who didn't even watch the NL Central
47:51
could look at Yadi and go yeah, Yadi's great, but look at his
47:54
numbers, OK. He's he's to me he's not a Hall
47:56
of Famer. You had to appreciate Yadi every
47:59
day. How he handled his staff.
48:02
How nobody ever ran on him when he was catching.
48:04
How the team ERA was what 1/2 run lower for his entire career.
48:08
How the team freaking fell off the gosh Dang map the second he
48:12
left. So to me, there's a lot more
48:15
nuance with the Yachty conversation than somebody like
48:18
somebody like Ozzie Smith. So I wonder the fact that Mauer
48:21
just snuck in. I could see Yachty not getting
48:24
in first ballot and then Cardinal fans go crazy.
48:28
There's like 400 riders or something that voted like 390
48:31
something this year. Like how many of them do you
48:34
trust to have that nuance? I'm not knocking them.
48:37
I'm not saying they're bad at at filling out the ballot.
48:39
I'm just saying like it's it's a it's more of a question than
48:43
Cardinals fans think it's going to be, not because I think it
48:47
should be a question. I would vote for him on the
48:49
first ballot. I I don't think I would vote
48:52
until like five or six years or so down the road.
48:55
So I I should hope that I would never get the chance to vote on
48:57
Yachty because he should probably already be in before I
49:00
ever get a chance to do it. But again, I think for the the
49:04
exact reasons that you're saying, it's going to be
49:06
interesting. And like you think about other
49:07
fan bases that are either coast, you could pick it.
49:11
They they if they follow baseball, they know that Yachty
49:13
was just synonymous with the Cardinals for like 20 years.
49:16
And that should speak to something because the Cardinals
49:19
were winning in a lot of those years.
49:20
But like how much gravitas does that carry for somebody checking
49:25
the box on their ballot when the time comes?
49:28
I think it should be a yes, but I I am very curious to know
49:31
whether it will be from some of those that didn't have the
49:34
upfront close and personal seat that everybody in the middle of
49:37
the country did throughout his entire career.
49:39
Like people around here, they know, but does everybody else
49:42
know? I guess we're going to find out
49:43
in a few years. You know, we did.
49:45
We we, we figured it out. We had 30 minutes on the topical
49:50
news of Carpenter and the roster and then we did 20 minutes.
49:53
We did the the typical sports talk radio, which is when you
49:56
don't have anything to talk about.
49:58
You basically say, hey, should Pete Rose make the Hall of Fame?
50:00
And then you talk about the Hall of Fame for 20 minutes.
50:03
But we did it. Did I miss anything, Brendan?
50:06
I mean, this is the time of year.
50:07
We need some games, man. We need Spring training.
50:09
We need some Grapefruit League games.
50:10
Did it? Did I miss anything on On Low
50:12
Hanging Fruit Episode 3? I don't think you did.
50:15
I think we're so very close to being able to have some some new
50:19
topics to talk about within the next few weeks.
50:23
You did a great job too, of plugging my YouTube channel,
50:25
youtube.com slash at B Schaefer 12.
50:28
You love Charlie. He's got like, just a behemoth
50:30
subscriber count. But help me out.
50:32
I'm trying to catch up a little bit.
50:34
Brendan Schaefer, Saint Louis Cardinals writer searching on
50:36
YouTube. That's where my B Shave Daily
50:38
podcast is. But I'll.
50:40
I'll eventually get Charlie, you know, to do more of these
50:42
podcasts once we have more to talk about.
50:43
He just went, I'm busy guy. I want to go once a week.
50:46
I don't have. We'll see, you know.
50:48
We'll see what we'll see if it picks up some steam.
50:50
Oh dude, during the season I'll for sure do more than once a
50:53
week. But right now this is the
50:54
deadest time of year. So let's be real.
50:56
There ain't that much to talk about, but we figure it out.
50:59
By the way, you know my channel, it's a team.
51:02
It's 590. I get a lot of help from 590.
51:05
By the way, we just, we just added the Seeing Red podcast
51:09
with Bernie Nicholas and Will Leach to this YouTube.
51:11
It was already on podcast, but now you can watch it on this
51:13
YouTube channel as well. So very nice.
51:16
We're trying to create a great channel for just Cardinal fans
51:19
to get a lot of different voices, Brendan.
51:21
That's what we're doing. I I respect the hustle and we'll
51:25
continue trying to emulate what you're doing and and continuing
51:28
to partake as we we keep it rolling with low hanging fruit
51:31
all. Right.
51:32
So everybody, please comment, like, subscribe this channel,
51:36
Brendan's channel, share the video, share the show, share the
51:39
channel, put it on social media, put it in your group text.
51:42
Let's go. Low hanging fruit.
51:44
Episode 3. Brendan.
51:46
Great stuff as always, Sir. You too.
51:48
I'll talk to you next week. Maybe.
51:49
Maybe something will happen this week.
51:51
Who knows? Probably just once next week.
51:53
Yeah. All right.
51:55
See you guys.