Latest / SisterSmart Leadership / 2: How To Deal With Not Getting Promoted

Transcript

2: How To Deal With Not Getting Promoted · SisterSmart Leadership

• 0:00
  Jill Avey: We don't ever allow rising stars here.
• 0:03
  That's what I was told when I was an up and coming marketing director signaling
• 0:08
  that I had nowhere to go but out if I wanted to make it to VP anytime soon.
• 0:12
  And that was unfortunate for me because the brand that I had built
• 0:16
  had just won the award for hottest footwear brand in the industry.
• 0:20
  And I thought, gosh, if not now, probably never.
• 0:23
  And ultimately I did leave that company for Columbia Business
• 0:27
  School where I hoped that I could learn how to increase my influence.
• 0:31
  And I didn't know what else to do differently.
• 0:33
  I didn't know where to turn.
• 0:35
  And, coaching wasn't as popular back then.
• 0:38
  And my boss, didn't even have a leadership book for me to
• 0:42
  read that he could recommend.
• 0:43
  I felt kind of stuck.
• 0:45
  And now today I know that there are people that can help you identify your weak
• 0:51
  spots and what leadership skills you need.
• 0:53
  And Sarah and I are here to do just that for you.
• 0:56
  I'm Jill Avey, a career success coach, and this is Sister Smart Leadership, the
• 1:02
  show that explores how women can rise from director to vice president and beyond
• 1:06
  by fully leaning into their feminine energy as their biggest advantage.
• 1:11
  Let's get you one step closer to the recognition and promotion you deserve.
• 1:16
  Jill Avey: It can be demoralizing to not get that promotion that you were hoping
• 1:19
  for, but we don't want you to lose heart.
• 1:22
  If this has happened to you, you now have information that you didn't have before.
• 1:26
  So it's important to learn how to take feedback on your way up the ladder,
• 1:30
  and this is a great chance to practice.
• 1:32
  It doesn't mean this is the end of the line for you.
• 1:35
  Instead, you can think of this as the beginning of your new journey.
• 1:38
  I did eventually get that promotion, but it just took a few more years
• 1:41
  and it took a different company so,
• 1:43
  Perhaps you've ever heard this when you've asked for a promotion,
• 1:47
  you're great at what you do.
• 1:48
  Why would you want to do something else?
• 1:51
  Oh, you don't have enough executive presence, and then there's no explanation
• 1:56
  of what that would look like if you did.
• 1:58
  Oh, we don't have the budget for that.
• 2:01
  If I promoted you, I would have to promote everyone else at that level.
• 2:05
  I can go on and on with all the lame excuses that I've heard, but the bottom
• 2:09
  line is this all means one thing.
• 2:12
  You aren't being seen as the leader that is at the next level.
• 2:16
  The cure for this is to work on your leadership skills.
• 2:19
  Unfortunately, many women get stuck at this point because they turn to
• 2:23
  improving their technical skills instead.
• 2:26
  And while it's okay to take a hard look at your technical skills and see if
• 2:30
  you've got what you need for right now and in the future, you know what your
• 2:35
  industry needs, and really having that vision of where you're going, this is
• 2:39
  the time to take these steps instead.
• 2:41
  I'd like to introduce Sarah as our coach at Sister Smart as well.
• 2:45
  And Sarah, I know you'd like to talk about first, the growth mindset and resilience
• 2:50
  that you need to take this kind of
• 2:51
  Sara: feedback.
• 2:51
  Yeah, this is such a great topic, Jill, so I really appreciate
• 2:55
  you bringing this forward.
• 2:56
  And those lame excuses.
• 2:59
  Like they're very elusive.
• 3:01
  That's how we know that.
• 3:02
  It's like, okay, what, what does that mean Even, so, so getting clarity, right?
• 3:08
  So not letting this knock you off balance, but really taking it in and.
• 3:13
  It's like the first step is being able to self-reflect like,
• 3:17
  how am I driving my career?
• 3:19
  How am I showing up?
• 3:21
  When, when you hear that, and so one thing I like to look at first in that
• 3:25
  self-reflection is how is my mindset?
• 3:29
  And I love how the Sister Smart program goes into really creating the
• 3:34
  foundation of having a growth mindset.
• 3:36
  Am I showing up and looking at these challenges like that there
• 3:41
  is a gift in this challenge, right?
• 3:43
  And so the one gift I feel like when we don't get the promotion is looking at your
• 3:49
  leadership and looking at the holes and getting feedback from other people inside
• 3:56
  of your inside of your industry, right?
• 3:59
  Jill Avey: I think that's a really good thing to think about here is in
• 4:02
  positive intelligence, we think about there's a gift in every situation.
• 4:06
  So even if it's a terrible situation, you can create a gift out of it.
• 4:10
  And you know what you're talking about, Sarah, here is that mindset.
• 4:13
  Often we don't take the steps to really take that deep look at ourselves
• 4:18
  and, and our situation and our career and these kinds of setbacks can
• 4:22
  make a hard stop and really do that soul searching that we need to do.
• 4:26
  And, so sometimes this can be the impetus that's a huge gift to
• 4:30
  be able to really take a look at things and, sometimes we need that.
• 4:34
  We need that motivation because we get caught in the day to day and we're not
• 4:38
  doing that kind of thing regularly anyhow.
• 4:40
  Yeah.
• 4:40
  And you also, we were talking about getting feedback from people.
• 4:43
  Tell me a little bit more about How you can do that.
• 4:46
  First I'll start with, in our Sisters in Leadership program, we've got what's
• 4:50
  called the four question interviews, and I think that's a really great way for people
• 4:55
  to go out and have some conversations with like three to five people.
• 4:59
  Three of the questions are all on positive things and what you're
• 5:02
  doing when you're doing well.
• 5:03
  And then the one question at the end is about, what do you see
• 5:06
  me doing when I'm not at my best?
• 5:08
  And so that's a really great question to help you find those blind spots and
• 5:11
  the, the things that might be holding you
• 5:14
  Sara: Yeah, and that's so much different than the traditional 360 where you
• 5:18
  may not know who's answering what?
• 5:21
  You get that nice, I mean, in a gentle way because you're having
• 5:24
  a conversation, you're building trust and you're really finding out
• 5:28
  like how are you being perceived?
• 5:30
  and if we don't have these like conversations, it could
• 5:34
  be years till we find out what people's perceptions of us are.
• 5:38
  So I think that is a really great tool to just level set.
• 5:42
  Like, where am I?
• 5:43
  How am I being perceived in the organization?
• 5:46
  Along with self-reflecting on, how am I showing up as a leader?
• 5:51
  Yeah.
• 5:51
  Jill Avey: I remember one client who did the four question interviews.
• 5:54
  She was a program manager.
• 5:56
  She led a lot of meetings and it was very good at, at her
• 5:59
  job and was, highly rewarded.
• 6:02
  But she found out in these interviews that she was not being perceived as
• 6:07
  being open and really listening very well, and she thought she was, Very open.
• 6:12
  And so that, that came as a shock to her and it was one of the best gifts
• 6:17
  that they could have given her because she through our program, she created a
• 6:22
  whole different way to run her meetings.
• 6:24
  And it, it really shifted that for her.
• 6:27
  And she became, like the best at listening instead of being perceived
• 6:31
  as sort of pushing things through more.
• 6:33
  And so that was a really powerful thing for her.
• 6:36
  Sara: Oh wow.
• 6:36
  What a gift.
• 6:37
  Jill Avey: It was, while it, she wasn't being held back from a
• 6:40
  promotion, it was, the same sort of factors that she got from that.
• 6:45
  So mentorship is another thing that you've talked about in the past, Sarah.
• 6:48
  Sara: Yeah.
• 6:49
  And as a coach I have seen clients just benefit so much by working one-on-one
• 6:56
  with a coach, focusing on their goals and helping with leadership skills.
• 7:01
  But the mentorship, I feel like it goes really hand in hand with the coaching
• 7:05
  because the mentors are inside of the organization, they know the political
• 7:10
  climate of the organization, they could help put certain stones on your
• 7:15
  in, in your path to support you to get the support you need to the next
• 7:19
  level, and they can even open up.
• 7:22
  Different doors with with their network who, with people you
• 7:25
  may not know or have known of.
• 7:28
  So I think mentorship is really important.
• 7:31
  Especially when working with a coach and you have really specific goals,
• 7:34
  like, I want to uplevel my, my career, I want to uplevel my leadership.
• 7:39
  And those mentors have probably walk through the fire, so to
• 7:44
  speak, and they can support you in getting, to that next, growth level.
• 7:49
  So I highly recommend working with a mentor.
• 7:52
  Some organizations have, more Organized type of mentorship programs.
• 7:58
  But if, if your organization doesn't, I recommend just
• 8:01
  looking at different org charts.
• 8:03
  Like who would you like to have as your mentor?
• 8:06
  And then just checking in, like doing an informational interview.
• 8:09
  Tell me a little bit about the day in the life of, of you and,
• 8:12
  and would we be a good fit?
• 8:13
  Like, could you support me and, and leveling up?
• 8:17
  So I highly recommend mentorship.
• 8:21
  Jill Avey: Mentorship can be so powerful because when you're talking
• 8:24
  to leaders who are at levels above you, they have a different viewpoint of the
• 8:27
  whole organization and they understand the politics of the organization in
• 8:32
  a very different way than you do.
• 8:34
  And so I always, I always appreciate when people can do both coaching
• 8:38
  and mentorship to have that that information coming from inside the
• 8:43
  company that, as coaches, we don't know the ins and outs of every company.
• 8:47
  And so having that guidance is, is really powerful for people.
• 8:52
  I'm totally with Sarah here, that, we should we really encourage people
• 8:56
  to go out and find, find mentors when there's not, even, when there
• 9:00
  is a formal mentorship program.
• 9:03
  I mean, it's always good to have a handful of people that you can talk to.
• 9:07
  Especially when you're getting feedback like this of, you're not ready yet
• 9:10
  for a promotion that, that outside feedback and that mentor can tell you
• 9:16
  more about how you're perceived within the company rather than just your team.
• 9:20
  And they have, they have that bigger view.
• 9:22
  So I think that could be really helpful in these, in this circumstance.
• 9:27
  There's always leadership programs like Sisters in Leadership, which
• 9:31
  really bring that whole community aspect so you can look at what.
• 9:36
  Other women who are in the same situation that you are doing what are they facing?
• 9:40
  What are they doing differently than you're doing?
• 9:42
  What are the same struggles that they're having and how are they going
• 9:45
  about solving those those issues?
• 9:48
  And Then there's also our curriculum that's built to give you those
• 9:51
  leadership skills that you need to be seen at that next level.
• 9:55
  So, as women, we need to be performing at the next level that we want to get
• 10:01
  promoted to before we can get that promotion because we're promoted based
• 10:05
  on our performance, whereas men are typically promoted based on their.
• 10:10
  Potential.
• 10:11
  So we really have to do our leveling up ahead of time before, before
• 10:16
  people can see that potential in us.
• 10:18
  Sara: One other thing that I feel can hold women back and we talk about it in
• 10:25
  Sister Smart and one of the resources, how women Rise is being able to
• 10:31
  communicate and share your achievements.
• 10:35
  I know sometimes we'll feel like, oh, I don't want to brag about myself.
• 10:39
  And it's really, it's not bragging, it's providing information to your leadership
• 10:46
  team who's extremely busy, right?
• 10:48
  On what the work that you're doing and the impact that you're having.
• 10:51
  So how can we do it in a way that we're providing that information regularly.
• 10:56
  It's not just every six months, right?
• 10:59
  Or we're not waiting to be seen, noticed, and then eventually promoted,
• 11:02
  but we're actively engaging in the work we do, the impact our brand.
• 11:08
  Jill Avey: Yeah, I think almost all of our clients come in having
• 11:12
  some room for improvement here.
• 11:14
  Because, you know, it's so tempting to just keep your head down and keep
• 11:18
  working harder and hoping people will notice that how, what you know, how
• 11:23
  great you are and what, what good work you do and what good ideas you
• 11:26
  have and how much potential you have.
• 11:28
  But that's not the reality.
• 11:29
  And the reality is, like you said, people have busy lives and
• 11:33
  they're not necessarily even paying attention to what you're doing.
• 11:36
  So having that time that you, go out and, and socialize your work and your ideas
• 11:43
  and, get feedback on things and find out, here's, here's something that I'm working
• 11:47
  on and, what do you think about that?
• 11:49
  You can really improve what you're doing.
• 11:52
  And then at the same time you can also let people know what.
• 11:56
  What you're up to.
• 11:57
  And, and that can really help increase the visibility of your work.
• 12:02
  And I think visibility is one of the things that women can almost always
• 12:06
  improve on is making, making their brilliance more visible to everyone else.
• 12:11
  Sara: And not to mention you're building relationship.
• 12:15
  When you are, communicating and having these conversations with others,
• 12:19
  becoming more visible, like building that relationship, building trust, right?
• 12:24
  They know where you eventually want to go.
• 12:27
  So I think it's kind of like if we go to, talk a little bit about what
• 12:30
  Brene Brown speaks to is like really being authentic and transparent at
• 12:35
  who we are in these conversations.
• 12:38
  Jill Avey: And I think the last question on my mind, Sarah, is how do
• 12:41
  you know when it's time to move on?
• 12:43
  Or do you stay at your current company?
• 12:45
  Sara: Yeah, that is such a good question because when we don't get the promotion,
• 12:50
  we want to know is it time for me?
• 12:52
  So I think one indicator is, when you have the conversation with your manager
• 12:57
  about feedback, is the feedback clear?
• 13:00
  Do you know what the gaps are in your leadership, or is it that elusive,
• 13:06
  "you're just not ready yet," "you need to build your executive presence,"
• 13:11
  "you need to show up a little bit more like so and so, right?"
• 13:14
  So really get them to tie down some specific behaviors.
• 13:18
  So you want to make sure that your manager is your cheerleader,
• 13:22
  that they're supportive of you.
• 13:25
  And so you know, one way to figure that out is with the
• 13:29
  feedback that they give you.
• 13:30
  And then also, How is their political standing in the organization Are
• 13:36
  they an up and coming leader?
• 13:39
  Are you working with an up and coming team?
• 13:42
  So those are a couple indicators to give you some information that, is it the time
• 13:47
  to start looking at something external or is there a group or a team position that
• 13:54
  you could move to make a lateral move?
• 13:56
  Jill Avey: I think that's such good advice.
• 13:57
  Sarah.
• 13:58
  We had one client that.
• 14:00
  She worked really hard over the whole program.
• 14:03
  She made great gains.
• 14:04
  Her leadership had had improved so much, and yet her boss still
• 14:08
  was not recognizing that in her.
• 14:11
  It was like he saw her as the person that he had met, years before when she was a
• 14:16
  consultant and knew him and it's like when your parents see you as a kid, always,
• 14:20
  sometimes people don't see your growth and they're they're not your cheerleader
• 14:24
  and they're not there trying to see your growth and trying to help you get there.
• 14:28
  And so this was a boss that didn't have a lot of that social capital.
• 14:33
  And she just wasn't able to to get the promotion that she was looking for,
• 14:37
  and so she ultimately ended up looking somewhere else, got that promotion
• 14:41
  in in the new job, got a huge raise.
• 14:43
  It was great for her.
• 14:45
  And right after that, This boss got moved to a special project and so
• 14:50
  he was no longer even in leadership.
• 14:52
  So really the company was seeing that he wasn't a great leader either.
• 14:56
  And then the, that was her skip level boss.
• 14:58
  And then her boss actually took a new job right then too.
• 15:01
  So the whole department kind of fell apart right after that.
• 15:04
  So sometimes that ambiguity that you're talking about, Sarah can
• 15:07
  be a symptom of something much greater that's going on that's just
• 15:11
  not going to support your career.
• 15:13
  I do tend to encourage people to stay where they're at first because, , you
• 15:17
  know, it's like the new used car when we get a new job, it's the devil that
• 15:22
  you know where you're at and so you are often able to make a lot more gains.
• 15:28
  You already have relationships created, you already have
• 15:31
  successes in that role probably.
• 15:33
  And so building off of that with, building your leadership skills can
• 15:37
  make a tremendous difference for people.
• 15:39
  And I've seen people really turn around situations that weren't working for
• 15:44
  them at all, but through the leadership program that we have, they've been
• 15:48
  able to, really have a different brand and a different reaction from people.
• 15:53
  When they're, speaking to people.
• 15:55
  What that can do is it can really help you to make those moves because the
• 15:59
  company knows you and they trust you.
• 16:02
  And so often you'll get opportunities within your company that may be harder
• 16:07
  to get that jump from director to VP that we talk about a lot in our program
• 16:13
  that often they're looking for VPs within the company because it's less risky for
• 16:18
  the company to, to hire from within.
• 16:20
  That can be a little bit harder leave going outside.
• 16:23
  So that's something to consider as well.
• 16:26
  And often, often there's so much that you can do to improve within
• 16:30
  your organization, even when it's not going great for you now.
• 16:33
  Sara: right.
• 16:34
  Because we never know if we're going to get a lemon.
• 16:36
  Jill Avey: Exactly.
• 16:37
  Sara: so, and you've got the social capital and the relationships
• 16:40
  and where you're at right now.
• 16:43
  So see if you can make it work there before checking out something
• 16:48
  new, is what I hear you saying.
• 16:50
  Yeah.
• 16:51
  Jill Avey: Yeah, I think that's so right.
• 16:52
  And then, If it's not working for you, that's your, that's your cue to move.
• 16:58
  And sometimes this company was a great fit when you started, but it's
• 17:02
  grown, or it's gotten bought out or merged, or management's changed.
• 17:07
  Lots of things can change where you're just not a right fit anymore.
• 17:10
  This doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with you, it just means that
• 17:14
  this isn't the place for you to thrive.
• 17:16
  And so determining that can be really important as well.
• 17:20
  Sara: And that's what I love about the other thing about your program
• 17:24
  is the community of support of women.
• 17:26
  Like to share these conversations and experiences with, and then, and
• 17:30
  then hear what, what other, women have done in those situations.
• 17:35
  So just having that internal.
• 17:37
  Internal mentorship within the program I think is great to bounce these,
• 17:41
  these situations off of each other.
• 17:44
  Jill Avey: It's so great because there's always other women who have gone through
• 17:48
  ups and downs like you have, and when you're going through disappointing
• 17:51
  news where you thought that maybe this was your time to get promoted and then
• 17:56
  you find out this isn't happening.
• 17:59
  Everybody's had some kind of disappointment like that in the,
• 18:02
  in the community and so you can get a lot of support and there may be
• 18:05
  somebody that is going through that same thing right now or has recently.
• 18:10
  And so it's wonderful to hear how other people deal with it and the
• 18:14
  steps that they take and how and how they are, work to move forward.
• 18:19
  I remember when that happened to one of our members she was in line to get
• 18:24
  promoted at her six month review, and her boss had told her she needed to work
• 18:28
  on her strategic skills and, and she had done that and her boss had acknowledged
• 18:33
  that they had really improved and that they were excellent now, and, and
• 18:37
  so she thought this was a sure thing that she was getting this promotion.
• 18:41
  And instead what happened was she didn't get the promotion.
• 18:45
  Her boss ended up leaving and she ended up with a new manager who used
• 18:49
  to be her peer, and she was really disappointed with that and, but
• 18:53
  she had such a great attitude and she didn't let that hold her back.
• 18:58
  She created a great relationship with her new manager and this new manager really
• 19:03
  got behind her and helped her to get more visibility of the executive team.
• 19:08
  And so I think she ended up stronger in the company because
• 19:11
  of that situation happening.
• 19:13
  And then she was really, right on target and they had, they promised
• 19:17
  her that she would get that promotion.
• 19:19
  At the next, at the next review.
• 19:21
  So it really helped her a lot to position herself in a much stronger place.
• 19:26
  And when you talked about resilience and growth mindset, she really
• 19:29
  brought that to this situation.
• 19:32
  And and, ended up the gift, that we talked about in positive intelligence.
• 19:36
  That gift was that visibility to senior leadership that will
• 19:40
  help her from, from here on out.
• 19:43
  Sara: What a great story.
• 19:45
  I love that.
• 19:46
  Jill Avey: She was so inspiring.
• 19:47
  So we like to end each episode with three shifts that you can take today.
• 19:51
  So first, take a look at each of the roles that you've had in the past and
• 19:56
  see the common skills what you were using when you were at your best.
• 20:00
  These are the things that you're going to really want to emphasize.
• 20:02
  So in the second, Shift that you can make is to look for opportunities to move up
• 20:07
  into roles to do more of what you do well.
• 20:11
  And that might be, inside your company, it might be special projects, it
• 20:15
  might be a lateral move or it could be a move outside of the company.
• 20:20
  Sometimes we have to move on, is where we need to go.
• 20:23
  And then third, determine which skills you need to build to get there.
• 20:26
  So you know where you want to go and where you are now.
• 20:30
  You've been told there's a gap, so determine what skills those are.
• 20:34
  Do some interviews with people like we were talking
• 20:36
  about, can be your first step.
• 20:37
  We're talking to that mentor.
• 20:39
  These are the, the things that we can do to get there.
• 20:42
  I'd love to hear from you in the comments.
• 20:44
  What is, is this something that's ever happened to you that you've
• 20:47
  got overlooked for promotion?
• 20:49
  Has it happened to anybody that you know?
• 20:51
  and what is one thing that you would say to encourage somebody to if it's
• 20:56
  happened to them, to, to keep going and to keep, to keep Keep focused on
• 21:00
  their path forward and to find out, what the solutions are rather than
• 21:04
  letting them this hold them back.
• 21:06
  The next things that you can do are to download the career map
• 21:10
  checklist, there'll be a link in the show notes for that.
• 21:14
  And what this will do is it will help you determine your next steps.
• 21:17
  So this will really help you to look at your career so far and where you want
• 21:22
  to go and how that will and how you can map out that trajectory for yourself.
• 21:27
  And if you are a female leader who has the ambition to rise up the ladder so
• 21:32
  that you can have greater impact on your world, subscribe either on YouTube or
• 21:37
  where you like to listen to your podcasts.
• 21:40
  And we'll, we'll be covering the the topics that women leaders need to
• 21:44
  succeed in today's workplace, from executive presence to communication,
• 21:48
  and there's so much more to come if you'd like to come along.
• 21:51
  Thank you so much for joining us.
• 21:52
  We'll see you in the next episode.
• 21:54
  If you're ready to fully lean into your feminine leadership and get promoted
• 21:58
  from director to vice president and beyond, hit that subscribe button so
• 22:02
  you'll get all the episodes to come and check out the recommended video here
• 22:06
  to see how women are rising up without playing by the old rules that built these
• 22:10
  male dominated industries and systems.