Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Steven Alexander about his choice of The Daleks (4/7)

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Talks to Steven Alexander about his choice of The Daleks (4/7) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:40
  Welcome back to, oh, gosh, what is it?
• 0:43
  But I have some of the clubhead knife.
• 0:46
  Can you start this call me, Steven going, you do it.
• 0:50
  Hello, and welcome back to hamster with a blunt.
• 0:52
  Penknife with me. Steven Alexander, my guest
• 0:56
  today. Joe flawed say hello, Joe.
• 0:58
  Hello. My God, that was excellent.
• 1:02
  I might just cut by into every episode, you know?
• 1:05
  Honestly, I was almost erotic, okay.
• 1:10
  Steven, where are we? Yes.
• 1:12
  Where did we leave Doctor? Who we left him on the planet
• 1:16
  skaro trapped within the Dalek City and they just ripped a
• 1:21
  Dalek, our he's casing. So you know that's another
• 1:24
  that's another murder for Doctor.
• 1:25
  Who probably. I don't know if the Daleks
• 1:28
  hives. Maybe you hear it snoring.
• 1:30
  I don't know. Any person coins on it sizes as
• 1:32
  he does, and never here. Yeah yeah yeah it's probably
• 1:43
  Dalek Dalek play or something or garlic jest or actually, no.
• 1:47
  Maybe he's the one then that gets the anti-radiation drugs
• 1:50
  and goes and he basically they could have told this entire
• 1:55
  story from his point of view and it's just a Dalek having a
• 1:57
  really shit day. Yes it's always the same garlic
• 2:02
  suffering. Let's see if it's the same
• 2:04
  garlic suffering. Joey okay well what let's do
• 2:07
  that, shall we? Yes I was gonna say something
• 2:09
  about so it's there but I decided not to you don't need to
• 2:12
  make sense of this. You may go on others where
• 2:15
  you're expected to know big things on this one.
• 2:18
  You just have to talk. Excellent, I can do that.
• 2:22
  Let's go. I refuse to say that about you.
• 2:24
  Fantastic value. All right.
• 2:26
  In five, four. Three, two, one.
• 2:31
  Let's go. Here we go.
• 2:34
  Doctor Who theme? Yeah, lovely old titles as but
• 2:38
  is it better? Wilkie's pain torch that we see
• 2:40
  in doctors and titles. However, they did this my God, I
• 2:45
  did. See on the special features,
• 2:46
  they were talking about how they did the lettering and how it's
• 2:50
  kind of like absorbed into the time.
• 2:52
  I mean, for the time there was nothing like this welfare, this
• 2:56
  title sequence. Oh God.
• 2:58
  No, no, it's yeah, yeah. It's one of these things, that's
• 3:02
  very hard to imagine from the point of view, of 1963 viewer
• 3:06
  because previously all they'd have had All things like gold
• 3:10
  ranging from space. What's up a 1951 cereal?
• 3:15
  I mean, all of this most of this is lost.
• 3:17
  So strange replaces 1951 serial news broadcast as part of
• 3:20
  whirligig A children's TV program whirligig.
• 3:24
  Yeah. Why you went whirligig either?
• 3:25
  Okay. Go on so much 50s in 1953.
• 3:29
  They had the quatermass experiment, has heard of that
• 3:32
  will have heard of but is now but I'd fit three versions
• 3:36
  missing either. How do you think Ian does with
• 3:39
  it? Dalek voice.
• 3:40
  Not bad, not bad. Um there's like engineering
• 3:45
  Frontier space when Pertwee as ago and it's clearly her.
• 3:48
  We going I found the door open but I think I do think this
• 3:54
  whole set piece around him trying to escape out of the
• 3:56
  Dalek and then then coming in and blowing the shelter buggery
• 4:00
  is yes, marvelous. Yes, yes.
• 4:03
  This, this whole business with, with Ian in the Dalek and, you
• 4:07
  know, it's not easy. It's not his holiday.
• 4:09
  Cough, you know, he's actually there in the episode.
• 4:12
  So yeah. So we got quite a mess.
• 4:14
  We've got various plays soda, plays of things, like 1980 1984
• 4:19
  in 1954. Okay, you defied, The Adventures
• 4:23
  of Superman, The Strange World of Planet sakes which I know
• 4:27
  nothing about that. Oh excuse me, that sounds
• 4:30
  incredible. Yeah, h.g.
• 4:33
  Wells, The Invisible Man, which is another sort of like,
• 4:36
  trend-setting sci-fi show Big one.
• 4:40
  That is probably most like dr. Who are the Pathfinders series?
• 4:43
  Which are available on DVD. And I have seen, have you any
• 4:48
  quality? Is it any good Pathfinder's in
• 4:52
  space both? I saw Paula father's face of
• 4:54
  both by understand miles. Basically, it's a bunch of kids
• 4:56
  in there and then gerbil. Okay.
• 4:59
  It's probably their job and they all go into space together and I
• 5:02
  spend the whole serial wondering if the gerbil was going to be
• 5:05
  okay. That is it, was it okay?
• 5:08
  Was it done? The eyes slickly as stylishly as
• 5:12
  this it didn't have the 60s aesthetic so it didn't have
• 5:17
  again. It was more 1950s in my view
• 5:20
  because with the 60s you get all these curves, you get the
• 5:22
  interesting set design. You get this kind of psychedelic
• 5:26
  feel to everything the surrealism.
• 5:29
  What else would you voted Verde for Andromeda?
• 5:32
  Okay, which they remade years later and it was good but a bit
• 5:37
  boring and the drama. A breakthrough.
• 5:39
  And then the other one, that's probably actually also quite a
• 5:42
  lot, like this is what I'm just going to school.
• 5:47
  Let me look it up. It is called out of this world
• 5:52
  which was an a TV series, as a precursor to out of the unknown.
• 5:57
  And there's one episode of that that exists where they adapt an
• 6:01
  Asimov Story, one of these ones from the iRobot series and
• 6:06
  they're all fantastic. So you should definitely read as
• 6:08
  a more of and his stuff. I have very little Asimov had.
• 6:13
  The adventures of Don Quick been on yet.
• 6:17
  The Adventures of Done Quick, let me have my timeline.
• 6:20
  When I think, that may have come a little bit later because
• 6:22
  there's an episode where the, he goes to a planet with his
• 6:26
  psychic and the evil overthrows. Use people was currency and
• 6:31
  Colin Baker, and Kate Amara are two of the people that are like
• 6:35
  money. All that stuff.
• 6:38
  That's definitely much much later The Adventures of done
• 6:41
  quick here we go. He's a Don Quixote.
• 6:45
  The / mol antihero tilting at planets instead of windmills was
• 6:51
  1970 essentially what we're saying is there has been science
• 7:00
  fiction before this but it's nothing like this really no.
• 7:07
  And I mean, yeah, I mean you could say there's nothing like
• 7:09
  this before or since, you know. So if this is totally unique but
• 7:13
  in a way this is also I feel that this story breaks so many
• 7:18
  boundaries in terms of what it sets out to achieve and the
• 7:23
  surrealism that he gets on screen.
• 7:27
  Because yeah, because nothing quite with all the Sci-Fi play
• 7:32
  for today's and things. They can be quite absorbing but
• 7:35
  there's nothing that feels Why as totally atmospheric and
• 7:40
  engaging and I think this is genuinely like suspenseful is it
• 7:44
  it's got real sad and this like this whole sequence now this is
• 7:48
  the first but certainly not the last cutting through a door
• 7:51
  sequence, it will see your doctor.
• 7:54
  Especially now Terry Nation story top top garlic activities,
• 7:58
  cutting through, yes. Screaming their heads off on
• 8:02
  blowing up. What we not whining is
• 8:04
  definitely 10 - yeah. Oh, creating putting engines
• 8:12
  into planets and moving them about.
• 8:15
  Yeah, that's just like a mad Hobby.
• 8:18
  And there's shots of the lift here, which I should mention the
• 8:20
  shots of the left, where they used the inlay technique and you
• 8:22
  see the lift going up and down our again, it's a very simple
• 8:26
  effect but it's just brilliant. It looks so good.
• 8:30
  That darling, look with the cutting torch.
• 8:32
  That's awesome. I got a DUI.
• 8:36
  I was either cutting torch will clearly in a minute and I want
• 8:38
  you to tell me if you think it looks rude.
• 8:40
  Okay. Well it's me you're talking so
• 8:42
  so they are probably but I do love it when they give Daleks
• 8:47
  like extra appendages like the flame throwers in Dalek is
• 8:51
  master plan, things like that order.
• 8:54
  The rifles in death for the Daleks I love it.
• 8:59
  Talking about Dalek appendages. Okay, so that's either to see
• 9:03
  the two lines. The two slaps around the Dalek
• 9:05
  Weiss. Like if you look at one of the
• 9:09
  old original is original layout designs, which are on the PDF
• 9:13
  materials with this on the DVD, you can see that the gun was
• 9:17
  originally on the top slot and the sucker was on the bottom
• 9:21
  side. So they're out of alignment.
• 9:22
  So the gun was having the subconscious and it was supposed
• 9:26
  to be that the middle, the slats could spin around and the gun
• 9:30
  and suck a good point in any direction.
• 9:33
  And that was, there is a much simpler to do it this way
• 9:36
  because like, how would you have the controls in it and stuff?
• 9:40
  I mean, I mean, I have a feeling how they had more money.
• 9:43
  Yeah, we might have got a very different design all together.
• 9:47
  Oh, yeah. So what the hell?
• 9:50
  You so that's like a shell of a Dalek there.
• 9:53
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brilliant.
• 9:57
  They've already trashed. One of their Dalek props.
• 9:58
  Well, I have a feeling that was probably just like a dummy.
• 10:02
  Dalek, you know, Yes. Yes, the first step dummy,
• 10:06
  darling. Look at these, they actually
• 10:08
  Bill lift into this set. No, no, Joe, no, no.
• 10:15
  If you look right. Okay, in that shot, if you watch
• 10:18
  it again, you've got the doctrines, Susan and Barbara
• 10:21
  standing clearly to either side of the lift and they couldn't
• 10:26
  put their hands over the front because it's an English.
• 10:28
  I've been fooled all these years.
• 10:31
  No, yeah, but no. Yeah, you knew that.
• 10:34
  I also did. But like what do you say?
• 10:36
  I'd like to say, I did know that but this is great.
• 10:41
  I love this whatever you do like looking because obviously out
• 10:44
  that window it's just another part Studio.
• 10:46
  But we're supposed to believe it's like a Vista of the forest.
• 10:51
  Yeah, and this is also one of my favorite shots of the entire
• 10:55
  thing is then bashing of the window from the other point of
• 10:58
  view And the tried attention of the Dolls.
• 11:01
  Is it, is it against the camera again?
• 11:03
  Yeah, I'll put my pit may put my little use.
• 11:06
  Mainly Kyle got off Central Mass on Twitter.
• 11:09
  Yeah. He used to do doctor who gives
• 11:12
  that don't have watched the inlay here.
• 11:14
  Watch the Dalek go off. None of the Daleks can cross the
• 11:18
  edge of the lift frame because it's part of a different shot.
• 11:23
  And I do is my camera. I'm gonna say to you right now.
• 11:27
  That is still effective for the time, but yeah, you don't
• 11:32
  question it. Just looks like there it is.
• 11:34
  Oh yeah. Don't say who gives that needed
• 11:37
  to exist, but how long is clearly a window there?
• 11:40
  But they were clearly not happy against a window.
• 11:46
  No one actually touch the glass. No, because there's many.
• 11:49
  It's plastic space glass Joe aspect.
• 11:52
  Well Terry Nation does like his space medicine space food.
• 11:57
  I'm sure is space Patrol. Space, special Security Service
• 12:00
  everything stays in. Yeah.
• 12:03
  This would be, this would be a space commentary.
• 12:08
  Yes, yes, it could be now, okay. I've question here about the
• 12:12
  Dalek art that they used to throw hell is that I say it's a
• 12:19
  very interesting collection of that they have.
• 12:24
  Yeah, maybe it's the mark one travel machine.
• 12:28
  I've got a bit of trivia for you now because I happen to know,
• 12:31
  there was an art display on the Contour of Darren, and this was
• 12:37
  the showpiece piece of art is the Darren favorite.
• 12:43
  You've read that book having you oh yes, I am.
• 12:45
  Yeah, the dark out is Facebook. It's marvelous.
• 12:47
  I should have brought it with me.
• 12:49
  Is it stories? Or is it just information is
• 12:53
  information? And there's a glossary of Dalek
• 12:55
  terms and pictures and maps of skaro.
• 12:59
  All the kind of things you need to know about the Dalek way of
• 13:02
  life. Isn't there like a forbidden
• 13:03
  letter on skaro? Is it Q or something?
• 13:07
  There's a forbidden lesser. Oh yeah.
• 13:10
  Something like that, isn't it? Yes.
• 13:12
  All I remember, is that I group a group of Daleks having a
• 13:16
  conversation together is called a bring deep ulam, a bring
• 13:21
  particular, a bring to Gilliam of the Daleks.
• 13:24
  What can I just say? Every time I see a dark like a
• 13:26
  group of dialects. Now, I'm just going to say it's
• 13:28
  a Brenda. Gilliam is everything okay,
• 13:31
  brother? Do you think tennis is a good
• 13:33
  leader or easy? Just a deluded old kit.
• 13:36
  I think that he's very foolish to just go in there and start
• 13:40
  making a grandiose speech because he's just asking to be
• 13:43
  murdered. But there's the kind of attitude
• 13:48
  you know I mean they've got this this kinda like caught sensible
• 13:51
  caution this kind of attitude where yes if you greet someone
• 13:54
  with open arms and say that I am afraid nine times out of ten,
• 13:58
  they will be friendly back and this their dialects in which
• 14:01
  case they'll just kill you right out.
• 14:03
  So it's the same thing that they did in the dominators, they were
• 14:06
  the do syrians who are just like, you know, oh no, we can't
• 14:09
  possibly fight. We welcome everybody with open
• 14:12
  arms and then he walks in with a cork and just murders of Get
• 14:15
  them on love that scene. I especially things Hebert is
• 14:19
  Brian. Can't you teach your prize is
• 14:24
  funding amount of chest hair on display with the thals you know
• 14:28
  I mean well they are okay I know I know I do this too much and
• 14:35
  you're going to slap my wrist. I know you are but those foul
• 14:38
  trousers. I need you to explain them to me
• 14:41
  because there's a lot of holes in those trousers.
• 14:44
  Well, I'm actually going to talk about something else entirely,
• 14:46
  but we always used to have a laugh because the Daleks of
• 14:53
  given they've got some stuff for the farms, you know, they've got
• 14:55
  stuff that falls need and it looks like well, they've got
• 14:58
  awesome balls of wall. A few triples in some pork
• 15:01
  rolls. I'll be excited.
• 15:03
  Oh, it's so funny. Ha ha growls, but after the
• 15:06
  pandemic, we know that you're desperate, if you're in trouble,
• 15:11
  the one thing you want is toilet paper.
• 15:14
  All's, I've clearly run out. They have had the ultimate
• 15:16
  pendulum. Had a radioactive pandemic?
• 15:19
  Exactly. Yes.
• 15:20
  And you know, you get together and say we've got toilet paper
• 15:23
  and thousand come rushing in with their shopping.
• 15:25
  Trolley stop fighting over it. There is so much.
• 15:28
  That is great about this set piece.
• 15:30
  Now though, I love the Daleks in the shadows, I love the fact
• 15:36
  that the arms are Twitchy excited, they want to kill and
• 15:39
  that music where it's like, born.
• 15:44
  It's really good. Oh yes.
• 15:47
  Yeah, this was Sinister music coming in and I was just perfect
• 15:52
  and tell mr. Standing there, making his
• 15:54
  speech in front of the Garlic's. Another great thing about Daleks
• 15:59
  in Manhattan, evolution of the dog, you're on a roll is when
• 16:03
  you call she is out in New York in the park and he's making his
• 16:09
  speech for the Daleks and saying how great it is to be peaceful.
• 16:13
  Until you know, promote peace, and we are all the same
• 16:16
  underneath and the docks just killing is greater then.
• 16:19
  Yeah, I love that view is fantastic.
• 16:22
  So, here we go. We got genuinely, like kids that
• 16:25
  are really excited. These dialects, like we're gonna
• 16:28
  murder, we're gonna kill people. Oh yeah.
• 16:33
  You guys he has got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven,
• 16:36
  toilet rolls. That could see the thals through
• 16:38
  for at least an hour, they're cautious.
• 16:40
  Okay, why does it take so long? Warm them because I think he
• 16:44
  might have been able to save time.
• 16:45
  This is life. Well, perhaps he's just thought,
• 16:50
  hmm. There's an old get sorbet,
• 16:53
  didn't particularly get on with there's a, there's a role I
• 16:56
  quite fancy. I'll wait till they shot down.
• 17:00
  Oh well. But then he hasn't seen the vows
• 17:02
  before, has he? And he doesn't necessarily know
• 17:04
  that the Daleks are going to kill them straight or all years
• 17:09
  in the guns which yeah, ladies maybe you can't excuse.
• 17:12
  His baby and maybe it can't be excused trousers with hexagons
• 17:15
  cut out of them. Well now.
• 17:17
  Okay. But yeah, I know my decision of
• 17:19
  comment about the the trousers but this is the first in a long
• 17:23
  line of unusual space where that we see in Doctor Who.
• 17:28
  And I absolutely think the climax of all of these weird is
• 17:32
  those seeds of Death costumes where they all look like they're
• 17:36
  wearing underpants on the outside of their costumes.
• 17:40
  Yes. I'm particularly seeing as its
• 17:42
  main The old been cast in that story so it looks particularly
• 17:46
  bizarre God, I am really famous is Crown.
• 17:50
  I am so resisting saying what that Dalek gun looks like
• 17:54
  twitching like that. I'm not going to say, well let
• 17:58
  me talk about Services crank you thank you.
• 18:00
  Oh thank God you're here. Thank God.
• 18:02
  You are here out of soft metal and the news is getting more of
• 18:09
  my God. How can he not see them?
• 18:12
  Oh maybe he can. Maybe he's like you know,
• 18:14
  there's all Daleks around me. Let's be friends.
• 18:16
  He's going to school. I think he's got a Death Wish.
• 18:20
  Yes, sick to death of this pacifist.
• 18:22
  Bunch O is a widely word. Got out of his shell is telling
• 18:26
  them. Watch TV special effects.
• 18:27
  Shot in a second when they blast the wall and it blisters, it's
• 18:31
  really good. Oh yes, yeah, there's faster.
• 18:38
  Yeah, that's perfect but so effective because it just do it
• 18:41
  It just right. That's what you were saying
• 18:43
  about the lift then is this the same sort of thing when they
• 18:45
  superimposed in? Yes.
• 18:48
  And to be honest, I'm not actually quite sure how they did
• 18:51
  it. I know you can cut things up and
• 18:54
  put in lays over the other. I just don't quite know how it
• 18:57
  works. I've got a feeling that supposed
• 18:59
  to be fruit, you know, not triples, that's difficult,
• 19:04
  Stone. Black and wild have learnt know.
• 19:05
  Is that the fruit and veg stall on Darren?
• 19:08
  All right, is full of those I would ever saw.
• 19:11
  Siren? What?
• 19:12
  I mean? Darren.
• 19:17
  Well, it sounds exhausting to him.
• 19:20
  I'm sure the word Baron. Oh, okay, but all icky.
• 19:28
  So, donek Baron zaral, go with it will go with it.
• 19:33
  Okay? So this is the first time we
• 19:34
  really get to see the doctor engaging with an alien race
• 19:39
  like, but on a nice level, a gentle level.
• 19:41
  Oh, yes, he's made friends. Hasn't even ready and he's, he's
• 19:46
  already out. Patronising the mall is Ali.
• 19:48
  Yeah. So in your list of IMDb where
• 19:53
  does die only fall, they actress who plays die.
• 19:56
  Only dhoni, she didn't do a huge amount.
• 20:01
  She was in a couple of things as Virginia whether all and she
• 20:06
  what? I can't remember that.
• 20:08
  It's I didn't make a proper notes.
• 20:09
  Can I say she's pretty Shut about shut about 40 roles using
• 20:13
  a couple of films. This is not her best.
• 20:15
  She's not, this is not what she's best known as he stretched
• 20:18
  full in this. Like, she's really Bland, I
• 20:24
  think that's the point. That's what vowels are like.
• 20:28
  Look at. Look at those Bland what was she
• 20:30
  wearing on our heads as well is that supposed to be like a tree
• 20:33
  or something? I'll come on.
• 20:36
  I'm a doctor who fan. I love people wearing stupid
• 20:39
  headgear like that. I watched Babylon, 5 and I
• 20:41
  wasn't bothered by Londo mollari haircuts.
• 20:44
  I'm not one of those haircut. I know people wouldn't watch 15
• 20:52
  simply because of that hair. I would watch Babylon 5, but it
• 20:56
  was nothing to do with the hair. Oh, no, I'm sure I'm going to
• 20:58
  shut up right now Shaw. Okay, you okay.
• 21:00
  Yeah. Anyway, which means that it's
• 21:02
  obviously episode 4 of the Daleks, which is broadcast on
• 21:04
  the 7th of January, 1964. Okay, and things are starting to
• 21:09
  pick up a bit. So it's 5:15 again, 24 minutes
• 21:12
  37 seconds, so the viewer so far.
• 21:16
  I've gone from six point nine two, six point four to eight
• 21:18
  point nine, and they added another million on this week's
• 21:21
  and 9.9. Shut up.
• 21:24
  That means always editions. Yeah, they've gone for a 67 78,
• 21:28
  and 45 and now hit 29. It's at the peak of the, the
• 21:33
  cereal There's more hiding. So yes, so very exciting for for
• 21:40
  the makers of Doctor Who because this is, when I think, you know,
• 21:44
  you've got a success. I think when you're in the like
• 21:46
  the top 30, you know, you're you're popular, right?
• 21:51
  Yeah. And when you've gone from about
• 21:53
  6 to almost 10 million viewers, you know you wow they must be
• 21:57
  feeling very pleased with himself.
• 21:58
  I freaking love Sydney nubbins in the documentary.
• 22:05
  He says oh yeah yeah you know I was the head of drama and I knew
• 22:09
  exactly what I was doing because I told them no be ends and
• 22:14
  that's what made Doctor Who. Yes.
• 22:20
  And also when he left the BBC, they did a big interview with
• 22:26
  him I think in the 70s or something and it's all on
• 22:30
  something nice film stock and I think that would be worth
• 22:33
  tracking down and watching it since Like, I think that's what
• 22:36
  they cut into the the documentaries.
• 22:39
  You know, that that yeah, he was actually involved in Doctor Who
• 22:42
  was making quite a long time. Like well, into trout this time.
• 22:47
  I know that I know he helped use Patrick troughton.
• 22:50
  Yeah. Yeah, because he was, he was, he
• 22:52
  was, he was head of serials wasn't me for a long time.
• 22:56
  So he had involved, probably out involving the old shows and sort
• 22:59
  of making all the executive decisions.
• 23:02
  So, very different to the way he is.
• 23:04
  Now where you've Got an executive producer, he seems to
• 23:06
  have a lot of control over the show.
• 23:08
  Yeah, but then I understand there's a lot of mentally as
• 23:11
  well from from the upper floors. So executive producer, unless
• 23:14
  your name's Carol Skinner and then you will be erased from
• 23:18
  Doctor Who I don't know who she is.
• 23:28
  I like, I like the intelligence of what's of the script in this
• 23:32
  point of the regulars arguing. Whether it's the right thing to
• 23:38
  do or not to get the files to fight for them.
• 23:43
  Yeah, I think I know exactly. They think they can go so
• 23:47
  they're all packing up and saying, well, we're having a
• 23:49
  nice time with the files for all vowels.
• 23:50
  Can't help them. Whatever, I can't help everyone.
• 23:55
  I don't think it's Barbara, who's kind of like saying that
• 23:59
  they shouldn't help them isn't here.
• 24:01
  Yes. And and especially in no, in the
• 24:04
  next episode, when they realize they've got to go back in, she
• 24:07
  changes her mind in a heartbeat, she's like, no, they should
• 24:10
  fiber as I agree with the doctor.
• 24:12
  Yes. And it's all she's, it's like
• 24:14
  proper drama because drama essentially is conflicting
• 24:18
  points of views to arguably. Really yes to an extent.
• 24:24
  I agree. Yeah, I think I think a lot of
• 24:27
  drama is brought out of conflicting points of view and I
• 24:30
  think our Barbara is quite contrarian in this and it's very
• 24:35
  interesting for our character but she holds these strong point
• 24:38
  views and she's got the historical perspective as a
• 24:40
  history teacher as well so she could probably look at the wider
• 24:44
  picture. If you want to imagine the
• 24:46
  writers thought about it that much you gotta remember a lot of
• 24:49
  the first story was for parts long.
• 24:51
  So there's Every possibility that the viewers at home that
• 24:54
  had been watching from the beginning for this is the end,
• 24:56
  they're kind of escape, the Daleks will just leave them to
• 25:00
  get on with their own business. Now let's go back to the top of
• 25:02
  this and this is what I'm thinking are certain about this
• 25:06
  guy who died is that temperature bear, but this rug pull
• 25:12
  Cliffhanger now where it's like, oh shit.
• 25:16
  That fluid tank is back in the sea and even how it short when
• 25:20
  we pan across all their faces. It's it's it's a terrific
• 25:24
  Cliffhanger. Yeah I was like it's just
• 25:27
  looking at the camera and it just goes shit.
• 25:30
  Yeah, I just remembered there's another three episodes, but I do
• 25:36
  like the fact that it again is not a moment of Jeopardy, is it?
• 25:39
  It's a, it's a promise of dangerous to come.
• 25:43
  Yeah, audience face here. Look.
• 25:52
  I mean I can't believe the doctor did not have a spare like
• 25:56
  oh no he hasn't got any mercury has got a definite link.
• 25:59
  He's well you know he's always been meaning to, you know it's
• 26:02
  always been meaning to go pick up with their.
• 26:04
  You remember when Clara showed it which tile dish to use she
• 26:07
  obviously pointed out the wrong one.
• 26:10
  Yes. But with no spare those bears in
• 26:12
  it even though it's supposed to be infinite and a labyrinth you
• 26:15
  know? Yeah yeah.
• 26:17
  Well you've mentioned Clara, haven't you?
• 26:20
  Thank you. Thank you.
• 26:21
  I will try get her in there somewhere.
• 26:23
  I've worked before we end this episode.
• 26:25
  I want to ask you a question about his fingers, because I
• 26:29
  think this is a terrific lifting up.
• 26:31
  Your, what's your favorite kind of clever?
• 26:33
  Is it? The moment of Jeopardy is it,
• 26:36
  when the plot pivots in another direction?
• 26:38
  Is it a reveal? I don't, I don't know.
• 26:43
  I think it's really hard with a lot of the old Doctor Who
• 26:50
  stories where I didn't watch the first broadcast to gauge the
• 26:54
  impact of a cliffhanger. When I think about Doctor, Who
• 26:58
  Cliffhangers that most affect on me, one of the ones I like a lot
• 27:02
  is the ending to Battlefield Park one because that's where is
• 27:07
  the one where Ace is trapped in the water and the doctor was
• 27:10
  knocked out. By the stake as to F.
• 27:12
  So too. Is that so too?
• 27:14
  Yeah, okay, Last Airbender oh yeah, they're soaked one's a bit
• 27:17
  dull. Absolutely was great because we
• 27:19
  were in the playground talking about how they were going to get
• 27:22
  out of it for quite a lot of time that week you know saying
• 27:26
  how well but he's got the sword, maybe can use the sword to help
• 27:29
  or something like that and and we were completely wrong at the
• 27:32
  end because the way the gap between crazy.
• 27:34
  So I think any Cliffhanger that gets you thinking of it between
• 27:40
  the Woods is a good Cliffhanger. Well, last time we got together,
• 27:44
  we were talking about survival and we talked about give hangers
• 27:47
  at the end of episode 2, where it was a stunning around and
• 27:52
  having like the cheese influence.
• 27:54
  So, if I were to ask you, we got two and a half minutes of, as I
• 27:57
  asked you to name three Cliffhangers in Doctor, Who that
• 28:01
  you absolutely adore. And anything to do that.
• 28:05
  Hit me, okay. Journey's End stolen, the
• 28:08
  forklift angle between those two.
• 28:10
  Where the Doctor is regenerating.
• 28:26
  The spot. Now, I am on the spot now and
• 28:29
  I'm probably going to go mainly for new series ones.
• 28:34
  Okay. Remember it to the Daleks part
• 28:35
  one, where he's adopted? The Dalek goes up the stairs,
• 28:38
  okay? All those years after flight?
• 28:41
  Yeah, he's going upstairs. Of course, that's the best
• 28:43
  Cliffhanger over and other ones have the biggest impact.
• 28:52
  Oh yeah. He goes to his day when the
• 28:56
  Daleks come out in the sphere. Okay, so okay, right, so with
• 28:59
  those three so now that that was give me my gauge of where you
• 29:03
  are a cliff hangers. So he went for, you went for
• 29:05
  massive spectacle, which is solar there.
• 29:08
  You went for a moment of Jeopardy, which was remembrance
• 29:12
  and you've always got the one on me.
• 29:13
  Go and you went through a reveal.
• 29:15
  God damn it. There's nothing linking those
• 29:17
  for you at all. You just love them all I do like
• 29:22
  you when yeah. When Just like, oh my God and
• 29:26
  the floor drops away and use thing.
• 29:29
  What the fuck. That's the kind of cliffhanger
• 29:31
  or like I think the one in human nature, family of blood is
• 29:35
  brilliant because it's so goes against.
• 29:40
  It's basically you've got to make a choice between Joan and
• 29:43
  Martha. I do that has ever been done
• 29:45
  before and for them to do it to pull off a cliff hanger what
• 29:50
  like 35 seasons So the show or something that has never been
• 29:56
  done before. That is a goddamn Miracle.
• 29:58
  Yes. What do you think?
• 29:59
  It's a cliffhanger every week you can I have one of the
• 30:03
  classic ones here. That's a good ones belong.
• 30:05
  I can you pick another too quickly?
• 30:07
  Oh my God, I just got 30 seconds.
• 30:08
  Okay, I'm going to go for the war Games episode 1, where you
• 30:11
  genuinely think that the doctor is dead at the end of that
• 30:15
  because that's so fatalistically episode.
• 30:17
  And I do want to be obvious, I don't know.
• 30:20
  I want to say case 193, I'm not going to say that I'm going to
• 30:23
  say See your death episode 2 where he's like, I think that's
• 30:26
  exactly the question. I should be asking you doctor
• 30:30
  because it's a massive pivot in the plot rather than a moment of
• 30:35
  Jeopardy serves to pop very exciting.