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Matrix: From Bullet Time To Big Ideas · Have You Seen?! The Movie Podcast

• 0:00
  Dylan: There is no spoon.
• 0:20
  Joe: Welcome to Have You Seen the Movie Podcast, where every movie is a premiere.
• 0:24
  Dylan: This week we're ending season one with one of the most influential movies ever made.
• 0:28
  Dylan: Imma Joe has lived inside the Matrix since 1999.
• 0:32
  Dylan: I am unplugging for the very first time reality, philosophy, bullet time, and a movie that changed cinema forever.
• 0:40
  Dylan: Man, where to even start with this one?
• 0:43
  Dylan: I know I've said that a couple times, but man.
• 0:46
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 0:46
  Dylan: Um the just the whole concepts of everything is really cool.
• 0:54
  Joe: Yeah.
• 0:54
  Joe: Um there's so many layers.
• 0:57
  Joe: Right.
• 0:58
  Dylan: Because you were kind of saying before that the um the whole AI takeover started with term the Terminator.
• 1:06
  Joe: Yeah.
• 1:06
  Joe: The kind of kind of the maybe not even the inception of it, but um the kind of showing of what that would look like.
• 1:18
  Joe: Because there's the whole like 1984 and the government and all that kind of stuff, but like Terminator really kind of shows the how the machines take over.
• 1:28
  Joe: And then this really shows like I mean it's not connected, but it's almost like aftermath the way you just yeah.
• 1:38
  Dylan: So it came out in 1999.
• 1:40
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 1:41
  Dylan: The turn of the millennium.
• 1:45
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 1:46
  Dylan: I mean that was an interesting time.
• 1:49
  Dylan: I was gonna say, is this the movie that started Y2K?
• 1:52
  Joe: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:53
  Joe: I think people were more afraid of Y2K because of it.
• 1:57
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 1:57
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 1:58
  Dylan: Because, you know, dude, it's crazy like reading back on like all the Y2K stuff.
• 2:04
  Dylan: Uh-huh.
• 2:04
  Dylan: That like uh I'm like, why would people think that?
• 2:10
  Joe: Yeah, I don't know.
• 2:11
  Joe: Society has put so much faith in technology that you know, when that happened, it was like, oh, whoa.
• 2:20
  Dylan: Well, and it's just it also falls down to kind of herd mentality of you know people kind of blindly following whatever.
• 2:30
  Dylan: Anyways, being plugged in back, yeah.
• 2:34
  Dylan: Plugging back in.
• 2:36
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 2:36
  Dylan: Um, so the you could definitely see where it got a lot of its influence from like from the genres though.
• 2:49
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 2:50
  Dylan: Um all the sci-fi, but then also blending in kind of the philosophy of it.
• 2:56
  Joe: Mm-hmm.
• 2:56
  Joe: Yeah, I think the biggest influence was the anime.
• 3:00
  Joe: Yeah.
• 3:01
  Joe: Um, if you watch anime, I don't.
• 3:03
  Joe: Uh there yeah.
• 3:05
  Joe: Um, there's just a lot of a lot of the ways they move, um, the way they shot things, the way they use um you know, fast edits or slow edits and and that kind of stuff.
• 3:21
  Joe: Um that was really blew my mind because it was like almost for the first time you could see what an anime would look like in real life.
• 3:30
  Dylan: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 3:31
  Dylan: So um so for a quick plot setup, a hacker discovers reality isn't quite what it seems, and is given a choice.
• 3:44
  Dylan: Yes.
• 3:47
  Dylan: I had high expectations going into this one, just pretty much from everybody being like, you haven't seen The Matrix, you have to go watch it right now.
• 4:01
  Dylan: Right.
• 4:01
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 4:02
  Dylan: So um it definitely met expectations though.
• 4:08
  Joe: Uh-huh.
• 4:08
  Dylan: It was like definitely a good watch.
• 4:11
  Joe: What was kind of the like maybe you had it in your mind that it was a certain way and it wasn't?
• 4:15
  Joe: Like, what were the things that kind of changed?
• 4:18
  Dylan: It was definitely more philosophical.
• 4:20
  Dylan: And then there were times where I thought like the CGI was a little outdated.
• 4:28
  Dylan: Okay.
• 4:29
  Dylan: Like going I don't know if it's like going into the screen, uh-huh.
• 4:34
  Dylan: But like going past all the the numbers and stuff.
• 4:37
  Dylan: Oh yeah.
• 4:38
  Dylan: I was like, see, like something like that looks to me looked really dated.
• 4:44
  Joe: Okay.
• 4:44
  Joe: Yeah.
• 4:45
  Joe: Yeah.
• 4:46
  Joe: Uh we'd have to go through it because some of that, I wonder if that was purposeful.
• 4:52
  Joe: Yeah.
• 4:52
  Joe: Because like the green screen was made to look archaic.
• 4:56
  Joe: I could see if if it's well, I mean green screen by like the numbers that are going up and down.
• 5:01
  Joe: Yeah.
• 5:02
  Joe: That was meant to look old, like, you know, old technology.
• 5:06
  Joe: Right.
• 5:07
  Joe: Uh and whereas like green screening with people in it is like a different thing.
• 5:14
  Joe: That's different.
• 5:16
  Joe: Yeah.
• 5:16
  Dylan: So yeah, but um then there were like there were other parts where I still felt it.
• 5:24
  Dylan: I felt like it was pretty modern though.
• 5:26
  Dylan: Like it didn't feel outdated.
• 5:28
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 5:29
  Dylan: So there's just a few that stuck out to me.
• 5:32
  Dylan: But then as a whole, you know, it was still really good.
• 5:36
  Joe: Yeah.
• 5:36
  Joe: I I was kind of upset because my matrix was my matrix was glitching.
• 5:41
  Joe: Yeah.
• 5:42
  Joe: I don't know why, but uh the player was kind of glitchy and yeah, that was weird.
• 5:48
  Joe: Yeah.
• 5:49
  Dylan: It kept like skipping or something.
• 5:51
  Joe: Yeah.
• 5:52
  Joe: I have to check that out, but darn it, Sony.
• 5:56
  Joe: Give me a new player.
• 5:59
  unknown: No.
• 6:01
  Dylan: So what with with that at the end, um you like I don't know if you want to get into that now, but like you paused it and was like, just so you know, like it just the skipping just like ruined it or whatever.
• 6:16
  Joe: Yeah, because the best part for me is when Neo learns, um, like basically he he embraces that he's the one, and so then when he starts fighting the agents and specifically Agent Smith at the end, um he's just moving his arm back and forth like it's nothing.
• 6:34
  Joe: Like he goes from like getting shot and then being alive again to like taking him out.
• 6:41
  Joe: Yeah, and that whole sequence for me, like especially the effects part of it, uh, were really awesome because um that a lot of that stuff was like in the can kind of stuff.
• 6:53
  Joe: It wasn't CG, it was uh the way they shot it, and and so I was like, oh, it's just not just not what it was.
• 7:02
  Joe: Yeah.
• 7:03
  Dylan: So what was it like for you seeing it in theaters when it first came out?
• 7:09
  Joe: So the interesting thing was that in '98, there was rumors about a Superman movie, and Warner Brothers was working on it, and that ended up being a Tim Burton thing that uh Nicolas Cage was gonna be Superman in.
• 7:26
  Joe: Oh, yeah.
• 7:27
  Joe: So when I first saw the trailer for for The Matrix, and they showed basically that Trinity scene, I thought it was Superman.
• 7:36
  Joe: I thought it was like yeah, I was like, oh my word, like this is gonna be awesome! Like uh, because if you watch the original Superman, there's like Zod and you know his henchmen and stuff, and she looked, she was dressed like one of them, and I was like, wow, this is like a different take, and this would be awesome.
• 7:54
  Joe: And so, yeah, when I first caught that, I was like, is this the you know Superman movie they've been talking about?
• 8:01
  Joe: That thing ended up getting canceled.
• 8:03
  Dylan: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 8:05
  Joe: But um, what ended up happening was uh when it came out, I saw it with my youth group.
• 8:12
  Joe: And because of the you know, Judeo-Christian undertones, like a lot of people went to see it really because it's just like opened up, yeah, that that kind of thought process and stuff.
• 8:30
  Joe: And um then with it's kind of the mix of the philosophical Judeo-Christian and then just the technology and the the CG and all that stuff that we hadn't seen before.
• 8:43
  Joe: Like now it's you know, I mean, there are movies that kind of made fun of it and stuff, and then we have all the Marvel movies that just this is the kind of stuff that was almost invented to make that, yeah.
• 8:57
  Joe: So so it was uh yeah, and and I still I I still think it holds up.
• 9:04
  Joe: There's a lot of lot of things that they did in there that kind of like um when I've talked about Terminator stuff, they use a mix of practical and CG.
• 9:16
  Joe: Yeah.
• 9:17
  Joe: And so like even when Keanu's coming out of the pod, that that kind of um robot thing comes in and grabs him, but then when it switches, it's it's a physical thing grabbing him and he's interacting with it.
• 9:32
  Joe: And so the blend of things is they didn't rely on technology to to show the technology right they had the story and used the technology to tell the story, so that made it awesome, yeah, for sure.
• 9:49
  Dylan: Yeah, um, so who plays Neo?
• 9:54
  Joe: Keanu Reeves.
• 9:56
  Dylan: Really?
• 9:56
  Dylan: Yeah, he looks so young in there, yeah.
• 10:00
  Joe: Um yeah, he had done speed and point break, and he was kind of you know on top there.
• 10:06
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 10:07
  Joe: But um Will, I guess Will Smith had been offered the part.
• 10:11
  Joe: Oh, really?
• 10:12
  Joe: Yeah, oh man, from West Philadelphia.
• 10:15
  Joe: Born and raised.
• 10:16
  Joe: Yeah, I think he was uh, you know, had done he was doing the show Fresh Prince and all that.
• 10:25
  Joe: Yeah, so um I think he was offered the part but didn't understand it, and Val Kilmer was gonna be Morpheus, and so it would have been a different, you know, uh different characters, different part.
• 10:39
  Joe: I could see Val Kilmer being Morpheus, though, like with that that kind of undertone of deep voice and all that.
• 10:46
  Joe: Yeah.
• 10:47
  Dylan: Um I mean cu because um Man in Black came out in ninety-seven.
• 10:53
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:54
  Dylan: So it would have been right up his alley.
• 10:57
  Joe: Yeah, right.
• 10:57
  Joe: And I don't know, like I I think he didn't want to do any more sci-fi, or there was just a lot of things.
• 11:03
  Joe: I I don't know.
• 11:04
  Joe: When you're in that place where you can pick and choose, I think he had said this was one that he regretted.
• 11:10
  Joe: Oh, I'm sure.
• 11:11
  Joe: Yeah, because it's like but the thing about it too is nobody really understood the like there were people who understood the script and there were other people who didn't, yeah, and it was like, yeah.
• 11:23
  Joe: Um, the other person who I would have been interesting to see because so Keanu Reeves from this movie went on to do tons of martial arts movies, you know.
• 11:36
  Joe: Oh really?
• 11:37
  Joe: Yeah, and so it would have been interesting because Johnny both him and Johnny Depp were up for the part.
• 11:43
  Joe: Yeah, like they were they were like the last ones to like be and um you know Johnny Depp obviously didn't get it, and so that would have been interesting to see Johnny Depp in martial arts, yeah.
• 11:55
  Dylan: That would have been very different, yeah.
• 11:58
  Joe: Who knows if Keanu Reeves would have gotten Jack Sparrow?
• 12:01
  Joe: Yeah, well so who played Morpheus?
• 12:10
  Joe: Uh Lawrence Fishburn.
• 12:12
  Joe: You know, the funny thing about him, and I don't think he ever uh and we'll we can we'll talk on another episode more about this.
• 12:20
  Joe: I don't think he ever put it down or anything, but he played um Cowboy Curtis on the Pee Wee uh Herman show.
• 12:27
  Joe: Oh and uh and so like the Pee Wee Herman show was like a Saturday morning kind of show, and so he was cowboy Curtis.
• 12:34
  Joe: So it was cool to see him, and I had seen him in other things, but it was cool to see him in this movie.
• 12:39
  Joe: Like, hey, that's cowboy Curtis.
• 12:41
  Joe: Cowboy Curtis is is helping Neo.
• 12:43
  Joe: Funny.
• 12:45
  Dylan: So yeah, he definitely did a good job portraying the the mentor role though.
• 12:51
  Joe: Yeah, he said he wanted to play it like across of Darth Vader and Ben Kenobi.
• 12:55
  Joe: Yeah, you totally see it, right?
• 12:57
  Joe: Yeah, he just has a really good, you know, um just the way he you know carries himself the whole time.
• 13:07
  Joe: Right.
• 13:08
  Joe: And and then there's like a humility too, because when he when you know, when when Neo gets past a certain point, he's like, I'm honored to meet you, you know, when they first meet.
• 13:19
  Joe: And because Neo's like, oh, I've heard so much about you, and you're a legend, and and you could see that on his computer he was trying to track Morpheus down already, and yeah, and then it's like table's turn.
• 13:31
  Dylan: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:33
  Dylan: He said, You've been you know searching for years to find me, and I've been searching my whole life to find you.
• 13:40
  Dylan: Yeah, like what a lie! Yeah, I know.
• 13:45
  Joe: Yeah, that's crazy.
• 13:46
  Joe: Yep.
• 13:46
  Joe: Um oh, one other uh person I had heard that was was gonna be cast as him was Samuel L.
• 13:54
  Joe: Jackson.
• 13:54
  Dylan: So I could totally see that too.
• 13:57
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:59
  Dylan: So yeah, and then you were um talking about Trinity earlier.
• 14:05
  Joe: So who played her?
• 14:06
  Joe: So Trinity was played by Carrie Ann Moss.
• 14:09
  Joe: Um, and she she had been in a couple of things before this, but this was like kind of a big break.
• 14:16
  Joe: Yeah.
• 14:16
  Joe: Um, yeah, and apparently she had, you know, we'll talk more about this, but she had spent a three-hour audition doing martial arts the whole time.
• 14:28
  Dylan: Whoa.
• 14:29
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 14:30
  Dylan: Three hours.
• 14:31
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 14:32
  Dylan: Man.
• 14:32
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 14:33
  Dylan: That's crazy.
• 14:34
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 14:35
  Dylan: She did such a good job, like playing the the the female hero.
• 14:43
  Dylan: The female hero, yes.
• 14:45
  Dylan: But yeah, um I've I kind of felt like the love kind of line was weird.
• 14:55
  Joe: The the kind of falling in love with it.
• 14:58
  Dylan: Yeah, because I felt like it was I felt like it didn't really serve the plot.
• 15:03
  Dylan: And it kind of just diluted it more than anything else.
• 15:08
  Dylan: And I just I just was kind of like, why do we need to have that in there?
• 15:13
  Joe: Yeah.
• 15:13
  Joe: I I could I'll say why after, but let's get through.
• 15:19
  Dylan: So um, so then Agent Smith.
• 15:24
  Dylan: Hugo Weaving.
• 15:25
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 15:27
  Joe: Mr.
• 15:27
  Joe: Anderson.
• 15:30
  Dylan: His delivery of that character was excellent, though.
• 15:34
  Joe: Yeah.
• 15:35
  Joe: I mean that guy's that guy's like British.
• 15:38
  Joe: Yeah.
• 15:38
  Joe: So like, you know, he's also he also plays an elf on Lord of the Rings.
• 15:43
  Joe: Oh, really?
• 15:44
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:45
  Joe: Which is interesting, uh interesting contrast.
• 15:48
  Joe: And then he played uh Red Skull on Captain America.
• 15:52
  Joe: Um, okay.
• 15:54
  Joe: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 15:56
  Joe: Yeah, and um this is a great part, you know.
• 16:00
  Joe: I you know, he also said, like, oh, I just thought when they said, you know, we're doing martial arts, it was gonna be a couple of weeks, you know, like we're just gonna do whatever, you know, like and this ends up being, and that's part of the whole anime thing is is that um in anime the fighting is so exaggerated, yeah.
• 16:22
  Joe: And in in a good way, but when you when you bring it to film, you have to do even more of that, you know.
• 16:30
  Joe: So he was not prepared for the level of intensity.
• 16:38
  Dylan: And then who's the one that was good guy turned bad guy?
• 16:43
  Dylan: Yeah, that was Cypher.
• 16:44
  Dylan: Cypher.
• 16:45
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 16:46
  Dylan: So who played him?
• 16:47
  Dylan: Joe Pantliano.
• 16:49
  Joe: Um when we were watching it, you had to point out to me, but you said he also played uh so he played um Bob um oh what's it Bob Keane in La Bamba, and he was one of the Fratelli brothers in Goonies.
• 17:11
  Joe: So yeah, and you didn't recognize him.
• 17:15
  Joe: No, I didn't.
• 17:17
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:18
  Joe: See, that was cool too because I had seen those movies, you know, by then.
• 17:23
  Joe: And so like, and especially seeing him as Bob Keane and in La Bomba, where he's helping Richie and everything, and and then seeing him not only like like just look more like hardcore, like you know, with this mustache and or goatee and all that, but then like being uh the guy who turns Neo in, you know.
• 17:44
  Joe: Or Morpheus, I guess, but by way of you know, so the kind of underlying arc of all the characters.
• 17:54
  Joe: Um what what a lot of people seeing right away, and I think what they were kind of going for is that you know, there's a lot of little drops when they first meet Neo, and there's a lot of little drops inside um the conversations where they they'll say Jesus and then refer to Neo.
• 18:18
  Joe: Um and even at the first really the first meeting, the guy goes, Oh, you're my savior, my own personal Jesus Christ.
• 18:28
  Dylan: Man, did I black out during that?
• 18:30
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:31
  Joe: So, like there's all these little points, and so if you broke things down, Lawrence or uh Morpheus would be like John the Baptist, you know, making the way, going to find the savior, Neo being Jesus, and then Trinity kind of being the Mary Magdalene, um, and then ultimately Cyphers the Judas of the situation.
• 18:58
  Joe: And so, like the a lot of the that Jodeo Judeo-Christian undertone of it, people kind of saw, like, oh wow, like this is like this is like the gospels in a sci-fi modern retelling.
• 19:14
  Joe: Yeah, exactly.
• 19:15
  Joe: Yeah, modern retelling, basically.
• 19:18
  Joe: Um, so that was an interesting thing, and I think that's why like I went with my youth group, and like we you know, like it's like why would you go see that with your youth group?
• 19:29
  Joe: Um but that was a that was a big pull for for a lot of people too.
• 19:36
  Joe: So like the the interesting thing too is um not to like I I feel like everything holds up, but some of the things that date it is some of the music.
• 19:48
  Joe: Yeah.
• 19:48
  Joe: You know, because like just the name of the band speaks for the movie, you know.
• 20:03
  Joe: Yeah.
• 20:04
  Joe: And so that was a cool, cool pick.
• 20:08
  Joe: But then a lot of the other stuff um is just this industrial kind of uh you know, music that's kind of you know, kind of stuff, and um that one of you know, the that sequence where they're shooting up the the bank, you know, it's definitely doom doom doom.
• 20:28
  Joe: You know, like there's a lot of those points.
• 20:32
  Joe: Um but yeah, the main um composer was Don Davis.
• 20:40
  Joe: Um but yeah, the I think the cool parts stick out with with like rage at the end, yeah.
• 20:47
  Dylan: Yeah, I know when in the nightclub scene when they were playing uh Dracula, uh huh.
• 20:52
  Dylan: You and I were like jamming on the couch.
• 20:55
  Joe: Yeah, exactly.
• 20:56
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:58
  Joe: That that's the kind of cool music that comes out that's like yeah, all right.
• 21:02
  Joe: So one of the biggest things was that you know, I mentioned Hugo Weaving thinking that it was gonna be a couple of weeks.
• 21:10
  Joe: Uh-huh.
• 21:11
  Joe: So the whole cast, and I forget what the years were, but they started like a year or so before any filming happened.
• 21:18
  Joe: Really?
• 21:19
  Joe: Yeah, and they took like over four months to do all the training.
• 21:25
  Joe: Wow.
• 21:26
  Joe: Yeah.
• 21:27
  Joe: So they uh there's a famous martial arts choreographer named Wu Ping, and he was he's one of the top guys in martial arts movies industry, and so they got him and his team to come and and like basically start from scratch, start from the ground up and be like because nobody, you know, like there was there's maybe a couple people who had some martial arts training, but they really had to get you know, when you have that sequence uh with Keanu Reeves and more.
• 21:59
  Joe: Morpheus or Neo and Morpheus, and they're fighting in the dojo, like um they have to use and learn all these martial arts because they're kind of playing like upload kind of thing, you know, and so they they had to go through intense training with that.
• 22:19
  Dylan: Plus, um well, and with all of the martial arts stuff in movies, it's not just about making it look like you know how to do martial arts, it's about not throwing a punch.
• 22:33
  Dylan: Right.
• 22:33
  Dylan: Yeah, you know, not actually taking the other person out.
• 22:37
  Joe: So that yeah, that's the interesting thing too, is once you know martial arts and when you learn the discipline of martial arts, you're you're able to pull your punches because you start to know your own strength.
• 22:48
  Joe: And like that's why like some disciplines will do boards or do other things, so that you can see how strong you are, and when you hit the person, you pull your punch because you're you know, tournaments and things like that, you're not trying to hurt the person, you're just trying to get a point.
• 23:03
  Joe: Yeah, and so that discipline of four months of them learning all this martial arts, they actually in the in the close-up uh cuts and stuff, they had to hit each other.
• 23:15
  Joe: So I'm sure they were somewhat padded, but they were hitting each other at times, yeah.
• 23:20
  Joe: And and so they with that discipline, they could pull the punch, but without having to, you know, but they still would go home with bruised because you're still hitting each other regardless.
• 23:32
  Joe: So yeah, it's interesting, yeah.
• 23:35
  Joe: And then, you know, also with that was was all the wire work discipline and learning how to move on wires and yeah, how to move freely and do a spin or do a jump without depending on it and and having that as more of a safety net than anything, yeah.
• 23:56
  Joe: You know.
• 23:57
  Joe: So and that I think that's what really gives it that anime feel because um once you have the wire work going and then you can throw in that bullet time, that just that just makes everything pop.
• 24:16
  Joe: Yeah.
• 24:16
  Joe: Um the bullet time thing uh is really cool because they basically used um like hundreds of cameras in an array.
• 24:30
  Joe: Um so if a person is sitting in the center, it would be hundreds of cameras circling the person, and so then they would do an action shot, and those cameras were all getting everything at the same time, yeah.
• 24:44
  Joe: And then you kind of stitch it together in you know, in in the computer, but um they use something called interpolation.
• 24:53
  Joe: Um it's the estimation that needs to occur between two images, and so if you ever have a TV that looks like that has that soap opera effect, yeah, what it's doing is it's looking at the frames ahead and frames behind and smoothing out the picture.
• 25:12
  Joe: Okay, and so this technology was used, and I think it was invented with this movie, but um, they use interpolation to uh for the computer to see the frames ahead and behind and then smooth things out so it looks like just one frame.
• 25:29
  Dylan: Yeah, yeah, that's super interesting.
• 25:32
  Joe: Yeah, it's like super nerdy, but uh but yeah, I uh it's really cool.
• 25:40
  Joe: Uh the cool thing too is the way they built um the matrix is they would have like if you're in the matrix, things are more grid-like and square, yeah.
• 25:52
  Joe: And if you're in reality, things are just more fluid and yeah.
• 25:57
  Joe: So like you can go back and look at like a lot of the the way things are are laid out, like buildings and uh rooms, like forced perspective stuff and and all that.
• 26:08
  Joe: There's just a lot of more grids, yeah.
• 26:11
  Joe: And then the undertone of it all is green, um, whereas when you get to reality, it's all colorful and like it there's grays and stuff because of where they're at, but right, you know, there's more color pop in there as opposed to everything having a green tint, right?
• 26:28
  Dylan: It's just all kind of washed, uh-huh.
• 26:30
  Joe: Washed in green.
• 26:32
  Joe: Um, and then the cool thing with like their costumes.
• 26:37
  Joe: I was kind of mentioning this while we were watching it, is that in reality they're wearing what they can or what they have, right?
• 26:47
  Joe: You know, and then in their in the matrix, they're their own avatar.
• 26:52
  Joe: And so it's like they're wearing what they would choose to wear in the you know, that's why they're all stylish and like cool looking, and you know, it's like um it's funny because playing video games and when you build your own avatar, you know, you add all this.
• 27:08
  Joe: Yeah, right.
• 27:10
  Joe: Like, like there's more hours spent on the avatar than your game.
• 27:14
  Joe: And so like it's it's funny to think about it in that term, but like it's you know, and then the the other thing too, I think what I noticed was that as Neo got more confident and more accepting of the Matrix, his his clothes changed, you know.
• 27:33
  Joe: Oh I felt like that that was kind of uh something in there if it wasn't it seemed like it, because he goes from wearing just kind of a normal kind of shirt and you know slacks or something, to when they go to the bank, he's full on decked out and has like, you know, whereas Trinity, she's dresses more like that more often, you know.
• 28:00
  Joe: Yeah, and it's almost like him putting on his cape, like going, we're gonna go save Morpheus.
• 28:06
  Joe: Yeah.
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: At Red Pill Pharmaceuticals, we believe in truth, clarity, awakening.
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: Ask your doctor if red pill is right for you.
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: Or don't.
• 28:22
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• 28:26
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• 28:30
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• 28:33
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• 28:37
  Speaker 5: Red pill helps you see reality for what it truly is.
• 28:40
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• 28:43
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• 28:49
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• 28:56
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• 29:05
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• 29:12
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• 29:14
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• 29:16
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• 29:19
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• 29:20
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• 29:22
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• 29:25
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• 29:27
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• 29:29
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• 29:31
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• 29:34
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• 29:38
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• 29:48
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• 29:59
  Joe: So one of the biggest things um that that kind of building this world is so there's Bruce Lee, who I literally have on my uh table right here.
• 30:11
  Joe: Uh he's done, you know, he his last movie was Inner to the Dragon, and he passed away.
• 30:17
  Joe: He had a son named Brandon Lee.
• 30:19
  Joe: Um so Brandon Lee um made a movie called The Crow, and on that movie, he was accidentally shot um on set, and so he passed.
• 30:35
  Joe: There's there's his stand-in and stunt double on that movie named Chad Stolinsky, and he ended up being Keanu's stunt man on The Matrix.
• 30:47
  Joe: Um and so he actually started uh the process of doing um different kinds of handguns on set that where everything um was able to you're able to show like fire come out of it, but nothing else works.
• 31:08
  Joe: So like it's essentially a rubber gun with like a flare on it or something.
• 31:14
  Dylan: Oh interesting.
• 31:15
  Joe: Yeah, and and so you're it's it was a really really cool thing, but it was because of the accidents that happened on set that he like started this process.
• 31:24
  Joe: Well, um so yeah, he he was um Brandon Lee's stunt double, but they needed to finish the crow, and so he ended up being his stand-in as well.
• 31:38
  Joe: So he like finished that movie for him, and he was like they were like best friends.
• 31:42
  Joe: So he was yeah, he was uh his uh Keanu Reeves stuntman on The Matrix, and then they would go on years later to do the whole John Wick uh uh series, yeah.
• 31:54
  Joe: Yeah, so Chad Solinski's the main producer and director on the John Wick series, which Keanu Reeves is like it's almost like for me a not a sequel, but like you almost want to think this is Neo.
• 32:08
  Joe: Yeah.
• 32:09
  Joe: This is what Neo's been doing for the past.
• 32:12
  Joe: So ultimately, uh when the Matrix um was being developed in the early 90s, the Wachowskis were thinking of Brandon Lee to be Neo at the time.
• 32:29
  Joe: Oh yeah, yeah, and I have always had this like feeling and under like I was when that movie came out, I was like, if Brandon Lee was still alive, he would have been amazing in this because he is already, you know, he grew up in martial arts with his dad.
• 32:47
  Joe: Yeah, and so then he took that on as an adult and you know did martial arts movies, and so his last movie wasn't even considered a martial arts movie, it was just a comic book movie, and so this movie would have been like just huge, yeah, right up his alley, yeah.
• 33:05
  Joe: Yeah, so when they started filming, Keanu Reeves had um had a neck injury, and so then he had to get his neck fused, and so then the four months that he worked uh worked on the prep part of it, yeah, he had to wear a neck brace.
• 33:24
  Joe: Oh and to keep his neck in one position, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 33:30
  Joe: That's what it does, but uh because he had these you know pins and all this stuff in there, he he had to like be extra cautious about that, yeah.
• 33:41
  Joe: And he could only do certain moves and things like that, and then at the end, they found out that it didn't fuse.
• 33:47
  Joe: So really, yeah to get stuff done and and uh it just it didn't delay the process, but they because they were the wanting to work with him and keep him going, but it took it took a long time.
• 33:59
  Joe: But there are points where he looks a little stiff and and that could be why.
• 34:04
  Joe: Yeah, you know, especially in the um the dojo scene, um, he kind of seems a little stiff there.
• 34:11
  Joe: Um, but then in the dojo scene as well, um he does a little tribute to Bruce Lee.
• 34:18
  Joe: Oh, really?
• 34:19
  Joe: Yeah, because Bruce Lee is known to have his arms out and then kind of uh scratch his nose.
• 34:26
  Joe: Oh yeah, yeah, that little nose scratch thing.
• 34:28
  Joe: That was like a little tribute to him.
• 34:29
  Joe: Oh yeah.
• 34:31
  Joe: He's one of the best martial artists out there.
• 34:38
  Dylan: Okay.
• 34:38
  Dylan: With the Oracle?
• 34:40
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 34:41
  Dylan: Why why did she tell him that he wasn't the you know, because she I mean, I kind of felt like watching it, she kind of just uh beat him down is not kind of the right way to say it.
• 34:59
  Dylan: But she kind of was like, you're you're not it, you're not the one.
• 35:06
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:08
  Joe: And it's kind of weird.
• 35:10
  Joe: It's like, was she saying that to build him up so that he would he would take it on?
• 35:15
  Joe: You know, like or was she just wrong, you know?
• 35:21
  Joe: Right.
• 35:22
  Dylan: Because it's like it seemed like she was right in a lot of other things, but you know, I yeah, because they're they're like, you know, everything she's ever said has come true.
• 35:33
  Dylan: And so for her to be like, well, you're not the one to save everything, it's like, oh, well, why are we watching this movie then?
• 35:42
  Joe: Yeah, yeah, right.
• 35:44
  Joe: Yeah, exactly.
• 35:45
  Joe: It's like what's the why why are we here?
• 35:48
  Joe: Hey to look at the spoon.
• 35:51
  Joe: Right.
• 35:52
  Dylan: The there is no spoon.
• 35:53
  Joe: Yeah, there is no vase.
• 35:55
  Joe: There are no cookies.
• 36:00
  Dylan: So out of this whole movie, could you pick out a favorite scene of yours?
• 36:04
  Dylan: Or favorite scenes?
• 36:07
  Joe: Yeah, that's a hard one.
• 36:08
  Joe: So one of my favorite scenes, and part of this is because it's a it's a scene that you would show to show off like um your new TV or your sound system, yeah or both unless your disc is skipping.
• 36:26
  Joe: Um is the bank scene, the when they're the lobby shootout, yeah, when they're going in there.
• 36:32
  Joe: It just, I mean, everything about it dynamically, uh, with the effects, things that are going over your head in Atmos, um, just the the bullets going by your head, all that kind of stuff.
• 36:45
  Joe: It just it's all there.
• 36:46
  Joe: And then the amount of coordination and technique that all went in there because like other than removing wires, there was no CG in that shot whatsoever.
• 37:01
  Joe: So those columns were like so good.
• 37:04
  Joe: I know, right?
• 37:05
  Joe: Those columns were were like you know, loaded with with you know they were rigged to blow.
• 37:10
  Joe: Yeah, rigged to blow.
• 37:12
  Joe: Um uh Carrie-Ann Moss only had one shot at doing the wire work on the wall, yeah, because it would take like 10 hours to reset everything.
• 37:22
  Joe: So they were like, you just got this one time, no pressure, but yeah, no pressure.
• 37:27
  Joe: So there are multiple cameras and things, but you know, just seeing uh how you know, because everything's in fast time.
• 37:35
  Joe: So when they're doing those spins and they're doing the the wire work, it's just like boom, boom, boom.
• 37:40
  Joe: Yeah, and so it just yeah, that that's one that sticks out to me.
• 37:45
  Dylan: Yeah, and something that I thought was cool was when he's on the rooftop dodging the bullets for the first time, yeah.
• 37:54
  Dylan: And Trinity is like, how did you do that?
• 37:58
  Dylan: You're moving like them, yeah.
• 38:00
  Dylan: And it's like such a cool moment, right?
• 38:02
  Dylan: You're like, wait, maybe he is yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:07
  Joe: And um that whole bullet time sequence, they that was one of the first things that they like started on trying to figure out because they came up with ideas of putting like um a camera on a rocket and making it go fast to see like, you know, but they're like you know, wrecking cameras and they're like right, you know, they were you know, the Wachowskis had only done one film to to you know show the the studio that they could do it, so they were kind of operating off the cuff with like a good budget, you know.
• 38:42
  Joe: Uh and so they finally came uh you know along with the bullet time thing and and um and it just works.
• 38:50
  Joe: It just it's just such a cool yeah, you know.
• 38:55
  Dylan: Yeah, when Neo is fighting Agent Smith.
• 38:58
  Dylan: Uh-huh.
• 38:59
  Dylan: Like that whole sequence through there is just so good.
• 39:02
  Joe: Yeah.
• 39:03
  Joe: Yeah.
• 39:04
  Joe: Um from the train scene on or what what part?
• 39:08
  Dylan: Like pretty much from what sticks out to me most is like when he hits room 303 and just gets gunned down.
• 39:19
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 39:20
  Dylan: And they're like problem solved.
• 39:22
  Dylan: Right.
• 39:23
  Dylan: Let's blow this popsicle stand.
• 39:24
  Dylan: Yeah, exactly.
• 39:26
  Dylan: You know, start to walk away.
• 39:29
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 39:29
  Dylan: And um he, you know, comes back.
• 39:34
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 39:34
  Dylan: And they all like turn around like in unison and like start to fire.
• 39:40
  Dylan: And like they're the three of the agents are just in perfect unison right there.
• 39:45
  Dylan: Like really showing the matrix coding, uh-huh.
• 39:49
  Dylan: You know, uh-huh.
• 39:50
  Dylan: And then um, you know, Neo fights back and uh and takes the agent out.
• 39:56
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 39:56
  Dylan: And you know, to uh you know, to the other people, like that had never been done before, and they're like, just run, you know, they'll try to fight.
• 40:06
  Joe: Yeah.
• 40:06
  Joe: And it's so cool how he just stops the bullets, yeah.
• 40:10
  Joe: He's like, no, you're done.
• 40:13
  Joe: You're yeah, it uh that is a cool um the other thing too is when they're saving Morph Morpheus.
• 40:23
  Joe: Um I like the helicopter shot and you know all the effects that went into it, because like when that helicopter hits the side of the building and then everything ripples instead of just explodes on its own.
• 40:36
  Joe: Like, yeah, there's just a ripple, and it's like showing like slow motion, but it's just like, yeah, you're just like, what?
• 40:43
  Joe: Yeah, right.
• 40:45
  Dylan: Right.
• 40:45
  Dylan: Because I was like, is the helicopter like going to like sink into the building?
• 40:50
  Joe: Yeah, yeah, and then it just boom.
• 40:53
  Joe: Yeah, just like explodes, yeah, it's really good.
• 40:58
  Joe: Yeah.
• 40:59
  Joe: And the Trinity opening, I think that that really that if you're gonna if you're gonna start a movie off with the uh yeah, that that totally and especially to to like to show her abilities and her like um strength and all that, like how capable she is.
• 41:22
  Joe: Um and it just yeah, that is total.
• 41:28
  Dylan: Yeah, and then trying, you know, the the cop is like, oh well, I got two units in there, like, you know, it's just a woman, right?
• 41:38
  Dylan: You know, severely underestimated.
• 41:41
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 41:42
  Dylan: They're already dead.
• 41:43
  Dylan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 41:44
  Dylan: What a delivery.
• 41:46
  Dylan: Yeah, they're already dead.
• 41:48
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:50
  Joe: Initially, the studio didn't really understand the film and what was going on, and uh like I said, there were actors who understood what was going on, and there was actors who passed because they couldn't wrap their mind around the whole thing.
• 42:07
  Joe: Yeah, but it's funny because even in the script, the Wachowskis detailed how they were gonna work things out.
• 42:15
  Joe: And so yeah, and so it actually made it easier for special effects to figure out what were they gonna do, what they were gonna do, because they had already in detail set up like we want to try this, do this, shoot from this angle.
• 42:30
  Joe: Yeah, and then they were comic book artists, so their storyboards were incredible and incredibly detailed, and were able to show like what angles and what people were gonna look like doing what.
• 42:42
  Joe: Um the they had uh done some comic books where they had shown where Neo goes into the um when Neo goes into like the um interrogation room and they're like, you know, well, how are you gonna how are you gonna make a phone call when you can't speak?
• 43:02
  Joe: And then his mouth kind of gets um shut.
• 43:06
  Joe: They had done a comic book where a character that had happened to a character, yeah.
• 43:10
  Joe: And so they were like, we want to use that for the movie because we want to, you know, that's such a good moment too, though.
• 43:15
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:16
  Joe: And a lot of that stuff, especially when you're first figuring out what's going on, like that's one of the big reveals.
• 43:23
  Joe: And and so that mouth thing, and then with the little um squib or whatever you call it, the little tracker that they put inside him.
• 43:31
  Joe: The bug.
• 43:32
  Joe: Yeah, the bug.
• 43:33
  Joe: He gets bugged.
• 43:35
  Joe: Um, it's it's it's really really blows your mind.
• 43:39
  Joe: So the studios just were like, what?
• 43:41
  Joe: You know, and because they had already done the movie prior to prove, okay, we can we can write a script, we can do this movie.
• 43:50
  Joe: Right.
• 43:50
  Joe: And that movie had done pretty well.
• 43:52
  Joe: Um, they were like, Okay, we gotta, we gotta just have faith that they know what they're doing, and we're gonna have people around to you know, help.
• 43:59
  Joe: Them and whatever.
• 44:01
  Joe: So uh Lawrence Lawrence Fishburne was one of the first people that read it and was like, I get this, like I understand what they're going for.
• 44:08
  Joe: Yeah.
• 44:09
  Joe: Yeah.
• 44:09
  Joe: And it if you're not in the cyberpunk anime, like if you're not in all that, you're not gonna understand like how you know how that can um all come to play out.
• 44:23
  Joe: Yeah.
• 44:23
  Joe: And then the the funny thing is that when they're coming up with the code for the for the green screen for the matrix is the um uh art director had uh uh scanned in menus of sushi recipes and used those letters for the for everything going up and down.
• 44:44
  Joe: Oh really?
• 44:46
  Joe: Yeah.
• 44:49
  Joe: So we should go get sushi this week.
• 44:51
  Joe: I know we're having steak tonight.
• 44:57
  Dylan: I know what it's supposed to taste.
• 44:59
  Dylan: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:01
  Dylan: During that scene, I turned to you and I was like, is that why we're having steaks for dinner?
• 45:07
  Dylan: Not that I'm complaining, but ignorance is bliss.
• 45:11
  Joe: So funny.
• 45:12
  Joe: Yeah.
• 45:13
  Joe: Yeah, it's it's an interesting scene too with that because you finally realize like he's turning against everybody.
• 45:21
  Joe: You know, how are you sitting in front of Agent Smith and like how is this all happening right now?
• 45:26
  Joe: You know.
• 45:28
  Joe: The other thing with the Matrix, um, inside the matrix, uh, when they do the Matrix simulation is that they hired um multiple sets of twins and triplets to be the extras going back and forth.
• 45:44
  Dylan: Oh, really?
• 45:45
  Joe: Yeah, because it would be like, I mean, now you would do it like I've seen it done in in movies like Bohemian Rhapsody, where they're trying to simulate a crowd and they'll just take you know, a section of the crowd and replicate it all through and change colors and stuff like that.
• 46:00
  Joe: Well, rather than doing that, because that technology was not around at the time, they hired multiple twins and triplets to walk around to give this digitized, you know, replicated, you know, feel to it.
• 46:16
  Joe: Which I'm kind of thankful that uh we didn't have the technology because it makes it more real, you know.
• 46:23
  Joe: Yeah, right.
• 46:24
  Joe: It feels just more grounded in reality in some ways.
• 46:28
  Joe: Um there were 42 wins and 52 nominations for Oscars.
• 46:33
  Joe: They won four Oscars, but there were 42 wins and 52 nominations overall for different awards.
• 46:40
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:41
  Joe: It got um a nominee for the neo bullet dodging um scene.
• 46:50
  Joe: Yeah, um best film editing, best sound, best effects sound effects editing, best effects visual effects, um BAFTA best sound, um visual cinematography nominee, production design nominee, uh best editing nominee, um oh, science fiction and fantasy, academy of science fiction and fantasy.
• 47:21
  Joe: Um they won a Saturn Award, Best Science Fiction Film, Saturn Award for Best Director, uh or directors um nominee for Blu-ray.
• 47:32
  Joe: That that's the thing too.
• 47:34
  Joe: Um so Best DVD Blu-ray collection.
• 47:37
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 47:37
  Joe: Um, I I never thought I would own all of them, but somebody was selling their Blu-rays, and they had a box set and they give me a really good deal.
• 47:48
  Joe: So like there is so much uh depth in all the extras that we couldn't even cover in an hour.
• 47:55
  Joe: Yeah, because it's just I mean, there's there's a two-hour documentary on the making, there and and that's on a full Blu-ray disc.
• 48:03
  Joe: And then there's um there's something called the Animatrix, which is like a totally different set set of stories and things like that, of you know, like spin-off kind of thing.
• 48:17
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 48:17
  Joe: And I haven't watched it, but back in the day when they came out, people were all like, yeah, wow.
• 48:23
  Joe: So and it was expensive at the time, but you know, glad to have it at a low rate.
• 48:29
  Dylan: Right.
• 48:30
  Dylan: But um well, I guess if people want the long the long cut, yeah, yeah.
• 48:35
  Joe: But I was happy that we watched this version in 4K because of the movies you should be watching in 4K, it's this.
• 48:43
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 48:44
  Joe: Because even if something, even if the effects pop out and aren't the greatest at some point, like for the most part, there the color, the picture, all that stuff, uh the scene where um the rain or the not the rain but the fire extinguisher is coming down on the water changers.
• 49:06
  Joe: Yeah, that that shot and Keanu Reef shooting through and bullets coming up, like everything just look amazing.
• 49:15
  Dylan: So, Joe, out of ten red pills, what would you rate this movie?
• 49:25
  Joe: I'm at an eight.
• 49:26
  Joe: Yeah, I'm right there with you.
• 49:28
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:30
  Joe: Um I love Keanu Reeves.
• 49:34
  Joe: Um, one of the movies that he doesn't get a lot of uh like or he gets flack for is Dracula, and I just I thought he was really good in that.
• 49:41
  Joe: Oh um, uh, but but I I really love Keanu Reeves, I love the John Wick stuff, he's just a great actor.
• 49:50
  Joe: Um from what I hear, he's a great person, and yeah, you know, just all the martial arts stuff that he's done and taking and learning martial arts in that movie and then taking it on in his life is really cool, yeah.
• 50:03
  Joe: Right.
• 50:04
  Joe: Um so and then the cast in this movie is just amazing, and you know, like Carrie Ann Moss was like up and coming, um and she's done a lot of stuff, and having Joe Pantliano and Lawrence Fishburne, like they're they just just really great people, yeah.
• 50:24
  Dylan: Um so yeah, I definitely felt like the movie lived up to all the hype that people gave it.
• 50:32
  Joe: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 50:34
  Dylan: You know, because uh I feel like a lot of times stuff gets overhyped, uh-huh, and so you're like, you know, oh well, now it didn't meet my expectations.
• 50:44
  Dylan: Yeah, but yeah, it was right on the dot.
• 50:48
  Joe: Yeah, it it definitely does.
• 50:49
  Joe: And over time, I remember, you know, again, seeing it in the theaters and seeing it at friends' house, and yeah, and it's always like no matter what the format or media it comes to, uh, because I've seen it on big screen TVs that were rear projected and you know, like and a stereo system, and that was it.
• 51:08
  Joe: And now to be at home to watch it on a nice screen and atmos and you know in your own home, like it's just yeah, it just makes it so yeah, for sure.
• 51:20
  Joe: So so for next week's episode, we aren't doing an episode.
• 51:25
  Joe: What?
• 51:26
  Joe: Well, we've got some surprises coming, so keep an eye on our socials and uh we have a couple of different things coming out, but we're going to be taking a little break.
• 51:38
  Dylan: Thank you for listening to Have You Seen the Movie Podcast.
• 51:42
  Dylan: And seriously, thank you for being part of our first season.
• 51:45
  Dylan: Whether you've been with us since episode one or you just plugged in along the way, it genuinely means a lot that you've spent your time watching movies and hanging out with us.
• 51:54
  Joe: If you've been enjoying the show, make sure to follow it on your favorite podcast app and leave us a five-star rating.
• 52:01
  Joe: It helps more than you know.
• 52:02
  Dylan: Now on Audible.
• 52:04
  Joe: Now on Audible.
• 52:05
  Joe: And we still want to hear from you.
• 52:07
  Joe: Text us your name and a movie suggestion using the link in the description.
• 52:11
  Joe: A lot of what's coming next starts with you.
• 52:14
  Dylan: That's right.
• 52:15
  Dylan: You can follow all of our socials in the description as well, and everything you need is right there.
• 52:20
  Dylan: This has been season one of Have You Seen, and we'll be back soon with more movie premieres.
• 52:26
  Dylan: I know Kung Fu.
• 52:28
  Dylan: So you're telling me this whole season was just a simulation?
• 52:33
  Dylan: You need to believe, Mr.
• 52:35
  Dylan: McMahon.