Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / Kevin Carlson on Five Investor Exits, a Chapter 7 Bankruptcy, and What He Learned from Both

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Kevin Carlson on Five Investor Exits, a Chapter 7 Bankruptcy, and What He Learned from Both · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:07
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:11
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:14
adversity. As you listen today, let one
0:17
idea shape what you do next. My name is Anthony Kotaspodi and
0:21
today's guest is Kevin C Carlson, Director of Strategic
0:25
Business Development at Top to Bottom Business Solutions.
0:29
The firm is a family owned partnership headquartered in
0:31
Cornelius, NC with offices in Wilmington, Fort Mill and
0:36
Charleston. Top to Bottom delivers
0:38
bookkeeping, accounting, payroll and consulting services that let
0:42
business owners focus on what they love while experts handle
0:47
the numbers. The company has grown from a one
0:50
person shop in 2016 to a team of more than 50 professionals and
0:55
was a Small Business of the Year finalist at the Lake Norman
0:58
Chamber. Clients praise its communication
1:02
and the care it brings to every account.
1:05
Now Kevin draws on more than 20 years in strategy and
1:08
operations. He began his career in Consumer
1:11
Packaged Goods, leading successful teams at Procter and
1:14
Gamble, Coca-Cola and SC Johnson.
1:18
He then spent almost 2 decades in consecutive roles working
1:21
with investors, resulting in five successful investor exits,
1:26
the most recent in 2022. He also serves as a volunteer
1:31
mentoring transitioning U.S. military veterans via the Honor
1:35
Foundation and the Special Operators Transition Foundation.
1:40
Now, before we get into all that good stuff, today's episode is
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All right, back to our guest, the Director of Strategic
2:41
Business Development at Top to Bottom Business Solutions, Kevin
2:44
Carlson. Thanks for making the time to
2:46
Share your story today. Anthony, thank you for so much
2:49
for having me here and allowing me to participate.
2:52
All right, let's go have some fun, shall we, Kevin?
2:54
So I want to focus on just a little bit of what you were
2:58
doing before you got to top to bottom, lots of stops along the
3:01
way, but I want to pick out a couple of some of your longer
3:05
tenured places. Tell us about the work that you
3:08
were doing at Jefferson Wells International and specifically
3:12
I'm interested in and how you came in as the 11th employee and
3:17
helped to drive growth to 1400 employees and $140 million in
3:22
revenue per year in just four years.
3:25
Yeah, we, we had a lot of fun at the time before, right before I
3:29
joined Jefferson Wells. And by the way, the name of the
3:32
company at that time was called Audit Force.
3:35
I was working for SC Johnson and I've been there for many years
3:38
and I just, you know, it was sort of a fish out of water, the
3:41
big company thing. And I was tired of handing my
3:43
brain at the door. And the, the general counsel
3:47
for, for FC Johnson and I were neighbors and I started talking
3:51
to her about things and she said, well, I can introduce you
3:55
to somebody and, and maybe they've got an opportunity for
3:58
you. And this gentleman is Mike
3:59
Harris. And I met with Mike Harris and
4:02
Mike Harris said I want you to come go to the company and lead
4:05
sales and marketing. And audit force at the time was
4:10
a investor backed startup. I was doing about $800,000 in
4:14
sales. I had two offices and but we had
4:18
big plans and the whole positioning of audit force was
4:21
an alternative to the Big 5 at the time, external audit
4:27
accounting firms who were net effect exposing their clients to
4:30
a conflict of interest because they were auditing their own
4:32
work, they did consulting and they were also the external
4:35
auditor. And we would see later on how
4:37
they'd come back to bite them. Yeah.
4:38
Absolutely correct. This is pre Enron, pre
4:41
Sarbanes-Oxley. And so our positioning was that
4:44
as a no conflict of interest alternative and we were, we, our
4:50
strategy was office opening. We would put in a group of three
4:54
or four people in Cleveland, OH and say build a $2,000,000
4:57
business. And when you end up with 25
4:59
locations, obviously you're, you're doing you know, 70 to $80
5:03
million. But anyway, I I joined in sales
5:06
and marketing as the 11th employee and executed the go to
5:10
market office opening strategy, the client acquisition strategy,
5:15
the the market penetration strategy.
5:19
And within a relatively short period of time we went from
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what's 800,000 to 140 million in sales 1400 employees and we sold
5:28
the company to Manpower Incorporated.
5:30
And so when you go to the Manpower Incorporated website,
5:33
you see Jefferson Wells that is the company, a division of
5:37
Manpower that that we had started it at auditors.
5:42
So Manpower has a division of the company that is specifically
5:45
offering these auditing services.
5:48
Well, it the, the, the auditing expanded into other things in
5:52
the financial services sector and what manpower has done with
5:56
it is probably different than what we did.
5:58
But at the end of the day, that was that's how it got started.
6:02
11th employee. I was the only non CPA certified
6:06
internal auditor in the company at the time.
6:09
And so trials and tribulations and and but a lot of success
6:13
and, and I got the bug right, a big company background and now I
6:17
have been in the investor backed startup community and that led
6:21
to what I did after that. But just think about, you know,
6:25
I have this incredible need to learn and the learning was
6:28
incredible. Consumer Packaged Goods,
6:30
professional services, office opening startup investor back
6:35
going to, you know, I had never presented at a board of
6:38
directors meeting with all these, you know, private equity
6:40
investor people. So the learning curve was very
6:43
severe. And there were a couple times
6:46
where, you know, it's like I thought I was going to get
6:48
fired. But, and you know, an anecdote,
6:52
I had one board meeting, it was this gentleman, his name is
6:54
Bruce Smith, and he was a very, very intense, powerful, you
6:57
know, arrogant guy. And he was appointed to the
7:01
board, really as the sales and marketing expert.
7:04
And I was on a road trip to Denver, I think.
7:06
And I got back, it was like 3 in the morning and I sat in my car
7:10
in the garage and finished my board report and emailed it to
7:15
the secretary because the board meeting was at the 10 AM and I
7:18
was pushed, right. So anyway, I get out, we have to
7:21
drive to Chicago for the board meeting from Milwaukee is where
7:23
we were based. And, and when I, I was sitting
7:27
in the conference room at the investment firm and Bruce Smith
7:32
walks in the door and he looks at me and he and he takes his
7:35
board report. He takes my report and he tears
7:38
it in half and throws it on the floor.
7:40
He says that report is a piece of shit.
7:43
What is going on with the business?
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And so the rest of the room was stunned and I just sat there and
7:49
and he and I went toe to toe for about 45 minutes.
7:53
And and at the end, you know, in all fairness to him, he said,
7:57
OK. He said, I think you know what
7:59
you're doing and and I'm pleased to what you got going on and go
8:03
for it. And then the chairman said,
8:07
well, that's all the time we have.
8:09
You turned a meeting and and that was it.
8:11
So the whole board meeting was Bruce Smith and I, you know,
8:14
dealing with the turn across the table, what you think about in
8:17
your career and in most business professions, you never prepare
8:21
for that. You don't trade for that.
8:23
And so, you know, you have to be able to think on your feet and,
8:27
and, and stick with it. But you know, the test, there
8:30
wasn't as much the specific knowledge of what was going on
8:32
in the business. It was my behavior and how I
8:36
reacted. And I think that was a big part
8:38
of it. And so the rest of the people,
8:41
it was like 8 other people at the board meeting, they just sat
8:44
in their chairs to just watched and big and like, wow, you know,
8:50
boom boom, boom, boom, boom. And so then you think about, I
8:52
came out of there a, a much stronger, a much more
8:56
articulate, a much more focused professional as a result of that
9:01
discussion. So the learning there was
9:03
incredible and benefited me a lot down the road.
9:07
Do you think Bruce did this with other people?
9:09
Did he have here's maybe there's a little bit of a different way
9:13
to ask it. Did he have knowledge of what
9:16
your experience, your expertise level was prior and he was doing
9:20
this as an intentional test to see just how good you were?
9:24
Why I think it was an intentional test.
9:27
I don't think it was as much to see how good I was.
9:30
It was to like, does this person know the business?
9:34
Do they have a plan and, and can they execute?
9:38
And then the other part of it, I think was this is how does how
9:41
does this person do under pressure?
9:43
You know, what can he take? Is he tough enough for this?
9:46
And you think about when you go into investor backed startups,
9:50
OK, and you're underwater on cash flow, OK, every nickel
9:56
matters. And so a lot of risk, you know,
9:59
the statistics on success on investors, you know, investing
10:03
in companies like that, statistically it it, it's not
10:06
very good. So there's a lot at stake, and
10:09
so are you up to the task? And, you know, they would fire
10:13
and hire and change people out, you know, without hesitation.
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So at the end of the day, though, you know, it was like,
10:22
it was a very unique experience. I've never had anything like
10:25
that happened before. After many years at a fairly
10:29
high executive level in CPG companies, right.
10:34
So it was a watershed experience for me and well served me very
10:38
well relative to, you know, what I was able to do and qualify for
10:43
in the future. Why do you think you held up so
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well in that moment? Well, it's almost like, you
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know, getting home at 2:00 in the morning, finishing my board
10:54
report, emailing it at 3:30, getting 3 hours of sleep and
10:58
getting in the car. It's like, what else can they do
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to me? I mean, it's sort of like, and
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then on the other hand, you know, I'm respectful of the fact
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that, you know, there's a lot at stake here.
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And so I don't have any problem with somebody approaching things
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that way. And So what are my choices, you
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know, and once again, you know, I could fold and look like
11:20
Mickey the mope. I could just walked out.
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I could have cried, you know, broke down emotionally,
11:25
whatever. But no, this is, I wanted to
11:28
play in the major leagues in business, and this was it.
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And so then you start thinking about, oh, OK, can I measure up?
11:37
You know, am I tough enough? Am I smart?
11:40
Am I knowledgeable enough? And here's an example where my
11:43
learning and my depth of knowledge, learning about the
11:46
business and the situation really was the differentiator, I
11:50
think is if I was any less prepared or any less
11:53
knowledgeable, it would just RIP me up.
11:56
Up to that point in your life and your career, had you done
12:00
much personal development work? A lot, and I demanded it.
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So what about? What did you do?
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Well, I at at. At SC Johnson, there's this
12:12
thing called the Center for Creative Leadership there in
12:14
Greensboro, NC, I think, and in San Diego and SC Johnson for
12:19
certain high potential individuals would spend 40 grand
12:23
and send you to these events. And I went to the one in San
12:26
Diego and it was such a powerful, beneficial experience.
12:30
You know, you have a 1 to 1 interaction with an industrial
12:34
organizational psychologist, PhD for a week.
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And then you're doing a lot of these group events and tests and
12:41
you work in teams and stuff like that.
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And it was a very rewarding, powerful, positive experience.
12:47
And then three years later, they sent out a note and said, hey,
12:52
we got 2 Oakland slots at CCL in North Carolina.
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Is anybody interested? I said, I'm, I, I want it.
13:00
And So what you think about and, and you know, when I started my
13:03
career at Procter and Gamble, you know, I want the feedback,
13:06
right? So I go to the sales seminar and
13:09
the, the salesperson says to me, the leader of the the seminar
13:13
says, you know, hey, Kevin, you, you know, you, you just, you
13:17
talk too fast and, and your tone is too strict And you don't, you
13:22
know, you don't just communicate very well.
13:24
And you look like a train, you know, walking down the hallway
13:27
with all your boxes and stuff. And I said, OK, so he said, you
13:31
got to learn how to manage your tempo.
13:32
So I went and bought a metronome.
13:35
And then what I would do is I would make a presentation and I
13:40
would record it and then I would play it back and I would set the
13:46
tempo on the metronome to like, what was my speed of speech,
13:50
right? And you're, and I went, you're
13:52
right, I'm too fast. I talked too fast.
13:55
And so then what I would do is I would set the metronome to a
13:59
lower speed and I would give the presentation against that lower
14:03
speed. And so then Anthony, what I
14:06
learned how to do is to manage the tempo of my speech and how
14:13
to use inflection and, and especially in high stress
14:20
situations, you can really lower the threshold of the
14:24
conversation, I'd say of the intensity by, by how you manage
14:28
your speech. So how does that metronome help
14:31
you change the pace of the speech?
14:32
So metronome. Tick tick.
14:35
Well, you know, there you, you develop sort of a tempo of how
14:39
you speak and how you pause and at what speed you actually
14:45
operate. And so to me, you know, I had
14:49
heard from a friend that that was a good way to like
14:54
understand what your speech tempo is and then put it in a
14:59
place where you would want it to be.
15:02
And for me, it was a game changer because then I went to
15:05
the next training seminar and I employed, you know, the
15:10
differences. And the same seminar leader was
15:13
just astounded. He said you really paid
15:15
attention to the feedback. I said yes, I did.
15:17
What else did you learn from working with that organizational
15:20
psychologist about yourself? Well, you know, The thing is,
15:24
and I would play out as an example, one of the feedback
15:28
things I received in a performance review was I hadn't
15:32
failed enough. And, and you know, and at SC
15:38
Johnson, you know, to some extent they didn't know what to
15:40
do with me. So like when they sent me to
15:42
Denver, I was in corporate for a couple of years and I went to
15:45
Denver and, and there was this big account there, one of the
15:49
first warehouse club type entities.
15:51
It was called warehouse club and they ultimately got bought out
15:55
by Costco, I think. But but you know, they had fired
15:59
SC Johnson and we weren't doing any business there.
16:03
And, and, and so I, I had worked on this, the warehouse called
16:08
program in corporate and I made a pitch to this guy, you know, I
16:13
know you're mad and all that. I wrote him a letter and said,
16:15
I'll call you. So I went in there and, and we
16:18
started doing business again while the, the budget was based
16:21
on, you know, no business there, right?
16:23
So within like four months of the start of the fiscal year, I
16:26
had 100% of my quota for the year knocked down.
16:31
So then it was like the life of mentality takes over.
16:33
You know, you don't want to put too much on there or of, you
16:35
know, bigger not next year, right.
16:37
But the at the at the end of the day, you know, I haven't failed
16:41
enough. And so I asked the psychologist,
16:44
you know, help me understand this.
16:46
You know, I, I mean, it is failure, a prescription for self
16:49
development. And the psychologist said, no,
16:53
you know, you don't. How are you?
16:55
You know, so you try to fail to learn.
16:58
You know, it's ridiculous. You will fail and there will be
17:02
things that you could have done better that you'll learn from,
17:06
but it's not a prescription for success to encourage or or go
17:10
after failure. I mean, that's just ridiculous
17:13
and stupid. I've never heard of that.
17:14
So that's the kind of discussions I had because, you
17:19
know, I'm open to the feedback if you want to learn somebody
17:23
felt I accept it because then it's a matter of what you do
17:27
about it and what you gain from it, and then how you can advance
17:31
and grow and develop as a result of doing better with what you
17:35
not know. So we've got to go back to the
17:38
warehouse club example there. What did you say to get your
17:42
foot back in the door? And then how in four months did
17:45
you win back all that business? Well, I had a sort of an inside
17:50
track because you know, warehouse club at the time, you
17:53
know, if you went into a grocery store and bought, you know,
17:55
Shout laundry soil and stain remover, it came in a 22 ounce
17:59
jug. Well, warehouse club wanted
18:00
larger sizes. So I've been part of the
18:03
development in corporate of the gallon shout.
18:06
OK, I had been part of the development of the 218 oz pack
18:11
pledge furniture Polish. So it was 14 oz in one can at A,
18:15
at a Kroger and where else club. They wanted larger sizes and
18:19
bigger packs, right? So I've been part of that
18:21
program. But I wrote the head buyer there
18:23
a letter and I just said, you know, I understand that there's
18:27
been problems and they were way before my time.
18:31
I said I don't think it's good that companies like ours are not
18:38
doing business in some way, shape or form.
18:40
I can't really rectify the emotional things that or the
18:44
things that you might feel that we did wrong or didn't pay
18:47
attention to. But I was a core part of the
18:51
team that developed these new warehouse plug packs.
18:54
I have really high depth of knowledge on what these programs
18:58
are. And I think it believes both of
19:01
us to at least take a step back from maybe what the problems
19:03
were and have a discussion about maybe what the future could be.
19:07
And I said I will call you at 10 AM on Tuesday, Da, da, da, da,
19:13
da. And in order to request an
19:16
appointment with you. And I made sure I I sent a
19:21
letter. I gave him like a week and a
19:22
half. And then at 10 AM on Tuesday, I
19:26
called him. He picked the phone up.
19:28
Hey, this is, I think his name is Steve Schwarz.
19:32
Steve Schwarz. I said, hi, this is Kevin
19:35
Carlson with SC Johnson. Steve, did you receive my
19:37
letter? Yes, I did.
19:39
I want you to come in here this Thursday at 10 AM OK, Steve, I
19:44
will be there. Thank you so much.
19:46
I'm so glad that we can have this opportunity, he said.
19:49
You're very welcome, Clint. That was it.
19:51
So, you know, you know, if things are at the absolute
19:57
worst, the the distance you can gain in terms of accomplishment
20:03
is substantially greater, right? And I'm just not afraid.
20:08
Where does that lack of fear come from?
20:10
Well, there's a there's a a Native American saying, it says
20:13
the the significance of the accomplishment is a measure of
20:18
the magnitude of the challenges one overcomes.
20:21
OK. And so then you start thinking
20:23
about where, you know, I want the biggest problems.
20:28
So, and that I could take you back to Coca-Cola where I took a
20:33
job that nobody else wanted and turn, you know, lemons into
20:37
lemonade. But at the end of the day, I
20:40
want the big challenges. I always wanted the biggest
20:42
problems and I had opportunities to to do that.
20:45
So then you start thinking about, OK, there was a lot at
20:48
stake there. You know, we have this huge
20:51
investment in warehouse club programs and we've got a major
20:54
player that doesn't stock the products.
20:57
I think we should we should fix that.
21:00
And if I'm really as good at this job as people said I was
21:06
because they pointed me to it, then I should be able to take on
21:09
these issues and resolve them. OK, so we got the.
21:13
People, the people that set the quotas were the ones that were
21:17
singing the Blues. Well, I'll be sure set his quota
21:19
higher. OK.
21:22
So we've got to hear about what you did at Coke, the problem
21:25
that you solved there. And then I want to get into
21:27
present day what you're doing with TOP.
21:30
Well, at, at Coca-Cola, I was at P&G for like 2 years and I was,
21:36
my customers all recommended me to Coca-Cola and I was in Fargo,
21:39
ND calling on retail grocery stores selling P&G paper
21:45
products. And Coca-Cola said, hey, we want
21:49
you to join our company, come to work in St.
21:52
Louis, MO, which is like St. Louis, MO, big city, big city
21:57
and run our college recruiting program and, and do some special
22:01
assignment type things in preparation to be a first level
22:04
sales manager with our company. And I was just a sales Rep and
22:07
went, oh, sounds good. So I did that for six months in
22:11
Saint Louis. Then I got promoted to be the
22:13
district manager in Memphis, TN and, and I was the district
22:19
manager there for like 4 months. And then on Christmas Day and I
22:23
forget what the year was, I'm at my parents' house, right?
22:27
And I'm what, 202324 years old? The phone rings and my mom picks
22:35
it up and she says, Kevin, it's a Mr. Haas from Coca-Cola and he
22:40
wants to speak with you. And Tim Haas, who was the EVP of
22:44
intergalactic, you know, sales and marketing at the foods
22:47
division of Coca-Cola, which was Minute Maid and Butternut Minute
22:51
Maid chilled and frozen juices, butternut coffee, high C.
22:56
You know, it was a drink box. It wasn't bottles and cans, it
22:58
was food. And I picked up the phone and,
23:01
and he said, Kevin, we've got a devolving situation in
23:06
Indianapolis, IN. And I mean, I, I would like you
23:09
to go there and set up a new sales team and take ownership of
23:12
this situation and, and make it happen.
23:15
I said, well, what's going on there?
23:16
Well Procter and Gamble Minute Maid was by far and away the
23:21
market leader and had a very profitable enterprise with a lot
23:27
of 30 share. Most of the FCOJ and Chill Lords
23:30
use frankly was private label but Minute Maid was the
23:33
established brand. Well, PNG had bought a company
23:36
called Ben Hill Griffin and was planning on spending $100
23:40
million in Indianapolis, IN and Atlanta, GA to launch their
23:47
their Citrus Hill brand. So PNG was coming into Coca
23:50
Cola's backyard and they're profitable business.
23:53
And they were scared to death because in the the reason they
23:57
chose Atlanta and Indianapolis was the category development
24:01
index of orange juice consumption there was low.
24:04
So there was a marketplace category expansion opportunity
24:08
and then they were going to spend a lot of money and then,
24:11
you know, min and aids go on man, we're screwed if they get a
24:15
a foothold. We've got to stop.
24:18
And Coca-Cola Foods had used brokers to represent that in
24:22
those markets. And what they decided to do in
24:25
Indianapolis as part of the defense plan is put in a direct
24:28
sales force. And so Tim Haas wanted me to go
24:31
up there. They had recruited 3 new
24:34
salespeople right out of college.
24:36
And so we were all supposed to come together in Indianapolis,
24:40
put together a plan and rebut the Ben Hilgriff and Citrus Hill
24:45
P&G launch in the face of like huge spending.
24:49
I mean, it's just A at that moment in time, there's a a lot
24:54
more money than it even sounds to death.
24:56
So he said, do you want to do it?
24:58
I said, well, sure. He says, well, do you know what
25:01
you're getting into? I said, maybe it's better that I
25:03
don't, you know, I said, but what I really need to know is
25:08
what does success look like? So if you and I are having this
25:12
conversation in 18 months or two years or whatever the lengthy
25:16
assignment is, what's going to define success?
25:21
And he says, you know, I really don't know.
25:24
What I need, though, is something better and different
25:27
than what we've had up there. And I think you're the guy to do
25:30
it. So OK, I'll go.
25:33
And I, I, you know, kissed my mom and shook hands with my dad
25:39
and they said, you know, I, I need to go back to Memphis and
25:43
get packed up because I'm going to Indianapolis and they're
25:45
going, wow. So anyway, the team we brought
25:49
together, you know, three people, 2-3 recent college
25:54
grads. And you know, the, the starting
25:57
point though, is we didn't even know where the accounts were.
26:00
We had no records because the broker had all that.
26:03
And you know, the way the brokerage works is they submit a
26:06
bill to Coca-Cola every month and Coca-Cola pays it.
26:09
So I got a map of the whole area.
26:11
We put it up on the board and then we said, OK, here's a
26:15
Kroger store. We put a blue pin in it and then
26:18
a Marsh store was a red pin and then I'm O'malley's was a green
26:22
pin. And we plotted out where all the
26:24
accounts were and then we figured out who is the direct
26:28
buying accounts, you know, who were, who were buying products
26:31
direct from us. And then the retail accounts
26:33
were where we needed to make sure we had distribution and
26:36
pricing and all that kind of thing.
26:38
And then I took a, a marker and I said, OK, Susan, this is your
26:42
territory. Steve, this is yours.
26:45
This is before Google Maps. Yeah.
26:48
And and then I was like, OK, you know something very fundamental
26:54
approach to the business distribution, pricing,
26:57
promotion, OK and shelf space in position.
27:00
So are we in distribution, yes or no?
27:02
Are we priced correctly, yes or no?
27:04
Do we got promotions going on? OK and and, and so on.
27:08
And we just went to work. And then every Friday afternoon
27:12
I, this is where I sort of developed the concept of what
27:16
what I call operational tempo. So we would run, stop, start,
27:20
continue exercises every Friday afternoon in a little pizza
27:25
place called Ale Emporium and drink beer.
27:28
And what I mean by stop, start continuing, this is working.
27:30
So we're going to continue to do it.
27:32
This is not working. So we're going to stop it.
27:34
And this is what we're going to start doing that we think will
27:36
work. And we were wildly successful
27:39
when I took over the market on and was, was like, we were like
27:44
30% of plan on revenue. I mean, they were just eating
27:48
our lunch because they were giving the stuff away, right?
27:51
And we'd go to stores and there's no Minute Maid chilled
27:54
oranges, right? Because, and you know, at that
27:58
time, the chilled orange juice had a 30 day cold life.
28:02
So anyway, Long story short, we were wildly successful.
28:06
Good, good. That's a great story.
28:08
I just want to make sure we leave enough time for what's
28:11
going on at top to bottom. How did this opportunity come
28:14
about? What are you guys doing there?
28:15
Why have you grown so quickly? Take us through this story,
28:18
Kevin. Yeah.
28:19
Well, you know, Chris and I got in the boat together some time
28:22
ago, 2019. And so I've been part of top to
28:26
bottom on a in many different ways over the course of time.
28:31
And so about 3 years ago, he decided that oh, he wanted to
28:36
acquire companies and because other bookkeeping payroll
28:40
companies. So because I had done a lot of
28:42
Amino A work and then down that path, he engaged me to come in
28:46
and help him specifically with that.
28:49
Well, that didn't go. We we did a few deals and and
28:53
you know, the problem with bookkeeping firms, mom and pops,
28:56
it's like when you know, you would buy it, but only half the
29:00
clients would come over. So then you got into a problem
29:03
with the previous owners who wanted to pay out and that OK,
29:06
so that really didn't work out. But then he approached me and
29:10
said, OK, I want to be in a position to increase the value
29:16
of top to bottom longer term because I think it's in our
29:20
interest to have a plan that we can either, you know, stay in
29:24
the business and be more profitable.
29:25
We can partner with somebody else or we can exit and sell it.
29:29
And so I've been helping him with, with those things for
29:34
about the last year and a half. And you know, he, he considers
29:38
me his trusted advisor and I consider him like a really good
29:41
operator and, and business friend.
29:43
And so we just understand each other and, and so on.
29:47
But where we're trying to go is last year we grew the business
29:52
over $1,000,000 in one year. So we went from you know, three
29:57
and a half million to almost 5 million.
29:59
We're expecting to to approach 6,000,000 this year.
30:04
And then we've also got an issue that's going on with new
30:06
launches. One in we sell bookkeeping and
30:09
payroll services, but we're getting into tax services.
30:13
We're also getting into higher end advisory control ship type
30:16
services. And so our our longer term plan
30:20
is to get to about a 10 million revenue company.
30:23
And then what are our choices and options?
30:26
That's our point. So from 3 1/2 to $5,000,000 in
30:30
one year, you think you'll go from 5:00 to 6:00 this year.
30:34
So up until this point, what are the big growth levers that
30:36
you've been pulling then? One is there's huge client
30:41
dissatisfactory with current providers and we're able to
30:44
leverage that because our clients are happy.
30:46
Our CSI is well over 95 S 2 is we've really narrowed our focus
30:53
in targeting our efforts against places where we know we create
30:57
the most value. So as an example, we're in the
31:00
franchise or franchise market, OK.
31:04
And the one thing aside from the fact that we've established very
31:08
nice equity presence there, we're viewed as a dependable
31:12
provider. And then it's also a center of
31:15
gravity market in that, you know, a franchisor that has 200
31:19
locations. Guess what happens if the
31:21
franchisor writes an umbrella agreement, says, hey, we prefer
31:24
that you use these guys. You know, the growth is
31:27
exponential. In January, we acquired 36 new
31:31
clients in January. One month.
31:34
One month and the most significant thing and this is a
31:38
result of our you know work on the whole M and a front is Chris
31:43
only delivered one of those deals.
31:47
So our business developed a team with our focus strategy, our
31:52
client service satisfaction. Most of our business really
31:58
we're not in the, you know, cold call top of the funnel type
32:02
thing because we get a lot of referrals and recommendations
32:04
and things that come to us because we have happy satisfied
32:08
customers. And that's hard due in, in
32:12
bookkeeping. It's exceptionally difficult to
32:14
do in payroll because payroll is become there's a little bit of a
32:19
downward spiral going on in payroll and and you know, low
32:22
cost provider wins. But bookkeeping has really been
32:26
our our growth engine and then benefiting from the fact that we
32:33
were we really work well with clients.
32:36
So why do you think your customer satisfaction scores are
32:39
so high on the bookkeeping side of things?
32:42
Well, when, when they call us, we pick up the phone.
32:48
So it, it's, it starts there and then we've got, we understand
32:53
the importance of our staff and how they feel and how they
32:58
approach things with clients. And so everybody is coached and
33:02
supported relative to delivering client service satisfaction.
33:06
And then, you know, we are very, we pay attention to our, our
33:11
clients in a lot of ways, even to the point, well, you know,
33:16
are we priced right with them and that kind of thing.
33:19
But you know, the whole idea and you'll see this in a lot of our
33:22
literature. It's all about free and value,
33:25
right? And so how do we ensure that
33:28
we're creating value for our clients and putting them them in
33:32
a position to succeed? And, and so that's really the,
33:36
the, the motivation. But at the end of the day, I
33:41
dissatisfaction with current providers, which is a help to
33:44
us. We're, we're good at client
33:46
service satisfaction. So we get a lot of referrals.
33:48
The best sales and marketing strategy in the world is to take
33:51
great care of the people that already choose you.
33:54
And then and then now we're wearing our focus broadening
33:57
your appeal relative to Centers of Gravity franchise or
34:00
franchise type stuff. Kevin, I've talked to, I'm going
34:04
to say hundreds of companies about their payroll providers.
34:08
I don't know that I've come across somebody yet who's like,
34:11
oh, we love our payroll company. Why is that?
34:16
Why is this such a hard area to check the the customer
34:19
satisfaction boxes? Well, The thing is, it's, it's
34:23
like everybody tries to automate to make money and then, you
34:28
know, it's fraught with errors and omissions and problems.
34:31
So it's like sort of garbage in, garbage out.
34:34
But there's, you know, the, and people like ADP and paychecks
34:40
give it away. You know, you think about, if
34:42
you look at the, the reports for ADP and paychecks where they
34:46
make their money, it's on interest gained on float because
34:50
they're like one of the biggest banks in the world.
34:53
So then you start thinking about, well, how do you make
34:55
money in payroll? Because it's all, you know, you,
35:00
you get sold down to another provider for like $5 a month on
35:06
cost. So nobody loves their payroll
35:09
provider yet they're really not interested in paying what it
35:14
would take for the payroll provider to be perfect.
35:17
So that's the run. So let me see if I understand
35:20
this. You're saying that, you know,
35:22
the big names like ADP out there, they're charging very
35:26
little because, in fact, where they're making the bulk of their
35:28
money is the float of holding your payroll.
35:32
So you may cut paychecks on Friday, but you've got to submit
35:36
your payroll by Tuesday or Wednesday.
35:39
And so ADP is taking that money, your money, and earning interest
35:44
on it for a handful of days. That's correct.
35:47
In fact, I think at one point in time, ADP was never considered a
35:51
bait. But relative to asset size, it's
35:54
one of the biggest banks in the United States.
35:57
Fascinating. And so they've set the the bar
36:01
in terms of price very low where if you're going to provide a
36:05
level of customer service that's going to make people happy, the
36:08
price has to be higher than that because that's there's got to be
36:11
a level of human support and interaction.
36:13
That goes into that's correct. And so then you think about,
36:17
well, the future of payroll services is not very bright if
36:21
that's all you do. And so even if you look at the
36:25
big players, they've got all these other add-ons and you're
36:27
doing benefits and HR now they're they're one step away
36:31
from being like a PEO and, and, but that's not what their core
36:36
business was and where they got started.
36:40
So. Where do you see payroll going
36:42
for top to bottom? Well, we are expecting from a
36:47
strategic standpoint that if all's we do for somebody is
36:51
payroll, we're probably at risk. And and you know, then you think
36:56
about, OK, what is the problem we need to solve there.
37:00
It's like, hey, we're not going to go underwater just to keep
37:04
somebody in the opera. And so we don't have a lot of
37:09
real major focus on payroll other than where they're we're
37:14
also doing bookkeeping. We're trying to be rock solid in
37:19
terms of service level and all that because the anchor really
37:22
is the bookkeeping. And then you start thinking
37:24
about controllership and tax and all that stuff we would do down
37:27
the road. But we're, it's not an area
37:31
where as a standalone you would invest in.
37:33
And nobody is really. I was just at a, a webinar
37:37
conference and we were talking about payroll and it's like, you
37:39
know, nobody's investing in it. And it's a, it's a race to the
37:42
bottom on price. And so it's, you know, it's sort
37:46
of like the Model T. It's just, you know, the
37:49
business opportunities are going away.
37:51
And so some of the new business initiatives that you're working
37:55
on, you mentioned tax, how, what tax services will you provide
38:01
and how do you grow into a related but a new area like
38:05
that? Well, we're fortunate and we
38:08
have a large number of existing clients that are already happy
38:12
with us. So it, the plan is not to like
38:16
put a website out and cast a wide net, say, hey, we can tax.
38:21
It's, it's more of a measured step growth opportunity within
38:25
our existing client base. The data we have is people are
38:29
coming to us and say, hey, I want you to do my tax.
38:31
And then you think about in the infrequent time that we do lose
38:36
a client, one of the highest reasons is I I'm going somewhere
38:40
where they can do my taxes. So the, the opportunity for the
38:44
market is pretty much right there.
38:48
And which also enables us since we're not spending a lot of
38:52
money on marketing and all that kind of thing.
38:56
You know, we could do it very cost effectively and at a very
38:59
nice mark. So, but we're, we'll, we'll miss
39:05
this year's tax season basically.
39:08
But to us the big idea is like with our bookkeeping, it's a
39:11
month in recurring revenue model where we give a monthly report
39:16
based on their results. It says, hey, tax wise, here's
39:19
three things that you should look at.
39:21
And then when you get to the end of the tax season and you
39:24
process the return, you know, it's there like it's we, we're
39:29
prepared, right? There's none of this last minute
39:31
scramble. So we can give our clients a lot
39:33
more predictability around their tax planning and they'll and
39:37
their tax situation and over the course of the year.
39:42
And then of course, at the end of the year, it's it's, it's a
39:44
lot easier. So in addition to providing a
39:48
service where you'll you'll help them file their taxes, are you
39:51
going to layer in additional advisory services on top of
39:54
that? Yes.
39:56
And so you, you think about OK. You just have QuickBooks and you
40:02
do everything yourself and then you get an accounting manager
40:05
and then you all source it to somebody like us and we do your
40:08
bookkeeping for you and then you grow and then you need an
40:12
accounting manager. And then ultimately you get to
40:15
the point where hey, controller type person would be an
40:19
advantage. So a step up from just doing the
40:23
blocking and tackling bookkeeping.
40:25
And we do a little bit of off the cuff advisory and
40:29
suggestions and recommendations as part of our value
40:31
proposition. But there's another level in
40:33
terms of control environment, data integrity, reporting, you
40:38
know, month end close risk management, you know, those
40:41
kinds of things. And then above that component,
40:45
then you got, you know, CFO type stuff.
40:48
And we're probably a ways away from that, but there's a very
40:53
much undeveloped market. There's this big misconception
40:57
in the market. Everybody think it's fashionable
40:59
to have ACFO. Well, how many small businesses
41:03
are reporting to shareholders, you know, accessing capital
41:07
markets, running a treasury function, right, trying to, you
41:13
know, plan for an IPO, all of this.
41:15
That's CFO stuff, it's externally focused stuff, right.
41:19
Yet it seems to be fashionable to have a fraction CFO.
41:22
Well, we are going to focus on control environment, data
41:27
integrity, reporting, risk management, those kinds of
41:31
things and making sure that you know the the risks around the
41:38
accounting function, especially if somebody grows is are are
41:41
proactively managed effectively. Kevin, I want to switch gears on
41:46
you for a moment. And you know, behind every
41:49
success story, there's usually a chapter that almost broke
41:53
somebody. I'd be interested in exploring a
41:56
time in your life where you had a really serious challenge to
41:59
overcome and how you got through that.
42:02
Yeah, well, I went through Chapter 7 liquidation with my
42:08
own conflict. So if you look at my background,
42:12
I had this organization called SDC and after Jefferson Wells
42:19
and after several adventures past that, I took the, took my
42:27
capital and decided I was going to own and operate my own
42:30
business. And so I bought a company, I
42:34
left, I was at the human resource consulting firm.
42:37
I was EVP of worldwide sales and marketing.
42:41
And I, you know, went and bought my own company, left there and
42:46
bought my own company. It was a commercial HVAC
42:48
contractor and it had some specialty engineering type
42:53
things though regarding building energy management, pressurized
42:58
buildings for ventilation purposes, energy efficiency in,
43:03
in cold climates. And then we also had quite a, a,
43:06
a, a interesting spray finish application technology where we
43:13
built spray boots for people and did finishing lines for people.
43:17
And we went great gods. And so, you know, I, when I took
43:22
over the business or bought it, it was like 1,000,003.
43:25
And we had a pretty good pipeline and I built it up to
43:28
like 6 or 7 million. And then the tsunami was the
43:35
2008, 2009 financial crisis, which destroyed capital
43:40
expenditure pipeline. So my, my business project
43:45
pipeline went from like 1,000,005 to like 200,000
43:50
overnight. And the only people that wanted
43:53
to work with me were in government because they were the
43:56
only one, you know, like Texas schools that wanted a new paper
43:59
and stuff like that. The other thing that happened is
44:01
the bank that I worked with failed.
44:05
And so, and then I was a union shop.
44:09
I had 14 sheet metal worker union people.
44:14
The, the, the sheet metal, the national sheet metal Workers
44:18
Union filed a class action lawsuit on like 500 contractors
44:22
alleging pension fund contribution violations.
44:27
And so all of these things came together and then the bank
44:32
failure, the regulators come in, you know, they had special
44:35
powers, right? And so they reconciled my cash
44:38
account with I had a couple of loans there and wiped out my
44:43
cash account and reconciled against the loans.
44:47
And so no business, no cash, OK, lawsuit from the union, you
44:55
know, economic crisis, it was like this is over.
45:01
And so, you know, it all sort of came crashing down and, and like
45:06
it did for a lot of people. I mean, General Motors went
45:11
bankrupt, right? So I, I felt when this all came
45:16
down, I woke up 1 morning and I looked at my checking account
45:19
and I had like $0.30 in and that was it.
45:24
And I had gas in the cars and all this kind of stuff.
45:26
And it was sort of like, OK, what are my choices?
45:30
I could go color in the corner and, and just, you know,
45:35
hideout, I could, you know, do something drastic.
45:41
I could or what am I going to do about it?
45:43
So it's not, you know, and you know, within my learning and my
45:46
training and so on was like, wait a minute.
45:48
You know, it's not what happens to you.
45:50
It's how you handle it. So I just said I felt sorry for
45:55
myself for about 15 seconds. And then I said, all right, what
45:59
is the way back? And I started, I went and saw
46:03
counsel with a bankruptcy attorney and he told me what I
46:05
could and couldn't do and all this kind of stuff.
46:08
And so I had a plan and we exited the, the bankruptcy as a
46:15
Chapter 7 liquidation. And the, you think about where,
46:20
where you find success, right? So all my employees got paid at
46:26
least for all their work days and their vacation and stuff
46:29
like that. And then at the conclusion of
46:32
the whole bankruptcy process, and my attorney was also a
46:36
bankruptcy judge, right? And so he knew the other judges
46:39
and he, the the judge that adjudicated my case, pulled me
46:45
aside and said, you know, I just want to commend you for how you
46:48
handle things because people in your situation would be trying
46:51
to hide assets and do things outside the rules and all that
46:54
kind of job. And you, you handled everything
46:58
except for it and made my life, my decision making much easier.
47:04
So I really wanted to make sure you knew that.
47:08
So and then from that, I found an opportunity to run a company
47:16
for a private equity firm in Minneapolis, Saint Paul called
47:20
Platinum Group. And so I had a job, right?
47:24
And, and, you know, we just started the path back.
47:29
So the point is, it's like not much bothers me.
47:33
You know, I was like the Bruce Smith thing and the, you know,
47:35
getting in the boardroom and tearing up my board report or,
47:40
or, you know, the bankruptcy and coming out of that and all that.
47:44
It's like, what are you gonna, you know what?
47:46
You know, there's a movie, Jeremiah Johnson.
47:48
I don't know if you've ever seen it.
47:49
And Robert Redford's in it. And you know, it's a whole story
47:52
of this mountain man. And you know, everybody's trying
47:54
to kill, you know, for like 20 years they've been trying to
47:57
kill Robert, the Robert Redford character and the guy that
48:01
taught him how to survive in the mountains at the beginning of
48:03
this whole thing. So 20 years later, you know,
48:07
here's Jeremiah, you know, cooking a rabbit or something,
48:10
here comes this guy that taught him how to survive, right.
48:13
And so the, the, the, it's Will Geer was the was the character.
48:19
And he said, he said, hey, so Pilgrim, was it much trouble?
48:25
And Jeremiah goes, what's wrong? So I look at that from the
48:29
standpoint of this is nothing, you know, and and like, find me
48:33
a bigger problem, you know, make my accomplishment greater
48:38
because of the low point where it start.
48:41
And so it it just didn't ultimately just didn't phase me.
48:44
And now I look at what happened post since that and companies
48:49
that I've been involved with and the Jefferson Wells team, we got
48:55
the band back together and did another one called Patina
48:57
Solutions. And so the relationships and
49:02
performance that we all in respect we all have for each
49:05
other, we got together and did it a second time, which is the
49:08
exit in 2022 by the way. So and so it just, I just don't
49:12
let things like that bother me. Do you not let things like that
49:17
bother you now because you developed thick skin going
49:22
through things like the bankruptcy years ago?
49:25
Or did you have that thick skin already heading into it?
49:29
Well, you know, and, and we probably don't have time for
49:32
this, but I could look back at some problems with Coca-Cola
49:35
that, you know, most people would not survive or handle and,
49:39
and stuff like that. I think it really, it's always,
49:41
I feel like I have a choice, you know, I'm in, I, I can choose
49:46
you this or that or this. And then it's not what happens
49:50
to me. It's how I handle it.
49:53
And so what's the upside, you know, and, and, and what are my
49:57
choices and what's the upside? And I always want to go for the
50:01
upside. And so thick skin, yes, but you
50:05
know, patience is a virtue. self-control is a skill in very,
50:09
very difficult volatile situations.
50:11
I, I, I'm able to manage myself. I rarely blow up, although I do.
50:18
But at the end of the day too, and I think it comes with the
50:20
lessons of experience. You know, if you, if, if you're
50:24
faced with a very challenging situation for maybe the fifth
50:29
time, your, your ability to handle it, I think is a lot
50:33
better than the first time. And so did you pay attention and
50:36
did you learn and grow and develop over the course of from
50:42
first one to fifth one? And then and then, you know, to
50:46
me it's always a long term vision.
50:48
You know, what does success look like in three to five years?
50:52
You know, if I'm sitting here three years from now, what
50:55
outcomes, if I achieved them would mean I was successful.
50:58
So that also helps in terms of thinking this is nothing.
51:02
So I think a lot of people, you know, they hit a rough patch and
51:07
it turns into an opportunity for a downward spiral for them.
51:11
They don't have that mindset or that belief to say that I've got
51:16
a choice in this moment. It's I feel like a victim to my
51:20
circumstances and when is when are things going to actually
51:24
turn around and go my way. But you're wired differently.
51:29
Do you think you were wired that way from the start, like you
51:32
popped out of the womb that way? Or did you have some good
51:35
teachers early on that set your mindset on the right path?
51:39
Well, I, I, I think there's sort of a, you know, environmental
51:44
affinity of my, my family that I grew up in, my dad was a
51:48
Chevrolet car dealer. So, you know, when he was, when
51:52
he was out of high school, he was a farm labour.
51:57
And then he decides to get married to my mom and they moved
52:01
to the big city of Mankato, MN. And he goes to work at Sears and
52:06
selling appliances. And after five weeks, you know,
52:11
when the Commission checks came out, he went to his boss and
52:16
said, hey, where's my Commission check?
52:19
And your boss said, well, I get your Commission for your first
52:22
year here. And my dad, I'm out of here.
52:26
And then he went to work selling cars at a, at a Chevrolet
52:30
dealership. And after being there and being
52:32
like the top salesperson for for 13 years, he, the zone manager
52:37
for Chevrolet said you should have your own dealership.
52:40
And so a friend of our families that he had sold cars to for
52:45
years mortgaged his house and his a huge amount of Ford, Ford
52:53
stock, Ford automobile stock to enable him to get the loan from
52:57
the SBA so he could buy this dealership.
53:00
And then the, the Chevrolet's own people helped him and he
53:02
went into business. And this is in like 1967.
53:05
And I grew up in that environment and I worked at that
53:08
dealership working with my dad shoulder to shoulder from 4th
53:11
grade. Ah, and in 1974 when the big oil
53:15
prices hit, OK, the babe called my dad up one day and said we're
53:20
pulling the plug man. And my dad said come get all the
53:23
cars. I don't care because all the car
53:26
dealerships were going out of business.
53:27
Yet he got past it. And so then he start thinking
53:31
about I saw that was part of it was there and and that helped
53:35
me. So I had sort of an advantage, I
53:38
think be based in that experience.
53:40
So when I get into, you know, doing my own thing, I had the
53:45
benefit of that learning and that experience.
53:47
And my dad was always very, very focused on the positive and, and
53:53
he built an incredibly successful business.
53:56
And I had a part in that with the this parts business that he
53:59
did and stuff like that. But I never went into business
54:01
with him in the dealership anyway.
54:04
But at the end of the day, I think that was part of my
54:06
grounding that helped me, you know, deal with those things in
54:09
later life. What would you say is your
54:12
superpower, Kevin? I have an incredible need to
54:16
learn and I, I just, I need to know and I, and if I'm in a
54:23
situation where, you know, and I do my homework and so I read, I
54:32
mean, I've read hundreds of books and, you know, not that
54:36
I'm looking for an answer, but I'm looking for perspective, you
54:40
know, help me understand this better.
54:42
And, and, and then I really gravitated to a couple of
54:46
authors early on that helped me a lot and were clearly
54:50
differentiators in terms of me adapting their ideas relative to
54:55
my ability to contribute and, and great value in my
54:58
professional life. And that's Peter Drucker and
55:01
then W Edwards, Danny. And tell us what you got from
55:05
those. Yeah.
55:06
Well, Drucker's book, The Effective Executive, I, I, I
55:10
reread that every year. What do you get from it?
55:14
Well, what do I get from it is what do you take attitude?
55:17
Yeah. It's like, you know, the true
55:19
measure of any true executive leader is they always ask the
55:24
question, how can I contribute? How can I create value?
55:30
And then the other part of it, Deming, you know, in terms of
55:32
the cost of quality versus the cost of rework, which you know,
55:35
you don't need to know much more than that, but it's like make
55:38
the investments on the front end and you know, and and that, but
55:42
the other part of it too, is then you practice it.
55:46
So then you think about, to me, leadership is results.
55:49
And that's a Drucker state, right?
55:52
And you know, culture eats strategy for breakfast.
55:54
He never said that, But how can I contribute?
55:59
You know, I always look at it from the standpoint of where can
56:01
I maximize my contribution? And then when you move past
56:05
where you're an individual contributor, and then you have
56:08
to learn how to be effective working through others.
56:11
OK, So then you start thinking about, well, you know, what?
56:16
What people do when you're not around is way more important
56:19
than what they do when you're there.
56:21
So what do you leave them? Do you leave them with tools and
56:24
training and direction and confidence and authority?
56:29
And so the other thing that Drucker, I learned from Drucker
56:32
is how do you get scale? So if you ask people scale,
56:39
well, we've got our organizational structure.
56:41
We're going to restructure this. And because we want to improve
56:44
our scalability, we want to align, you know, that kind of
56:47
joke. It's a man that's nuts.
56:48
It's crazy. That's just like, you know,
56:51
McKenzie Gobblesby to me where you get scale is, is the person
56:57
that's at the scene either with the project, the product, the
57:03
component, the customer, the situation, OK?
57:09
Are they confident, competent, trained direction and do they
57:13
have authority and can they decide, can they decide in the
57:17
best interest of both the client and the company.
57:21
And so when you have that and you build on that, if people
57:26
make mistakes and, and all that kind of stuff, but and then, you
57:30
know, you want to see people grow in advance and develop on
57:32
their own, put them in a situation where they can operate
57:36
that way, and then you really see the difference.
57:40
But scalability to me, speed and flexibility and go to market is
57:44
that the person at the lowest level of the organization is
57:47
equipped to decide and choose and make a good decision.
57:51
And they're have the authority and tend to.
57:54
It's not this internal like we have to rework you know who
57:58
reports to who kind of a thing. Well, we'll think about when
58:01
that happens and all of a sudden you're going to lay off 1800
58:04
people who goes? What happens to their model and
58:08
scale then? Nothing.
58:12
So, so why even think about it? But that's also a reason I want
58:16
to stay in SNB small business companies because you can have
58:20
that because, you know, the thing you need to think about,
58:24
especially as a companies get substantially larger, OK, is you
58:28
have to be able to get it done with the people you have.
58:33
So all this a player and upgrading top rating and all
58:37
that kind of stuff, to me is just a mistake.
58:39
You can't afford it. And then you, you know, you're,
58:41
you're hanging your head because you're not successful all the
58:44
time. So you have to take a step back
58:47
and say, Hey, I got 300 people and I or 400 or 1000, whatever
58:53
it is. How do, how do I get the job
58:55
done and meet the objectives with the staff that we have
58:58
first before you start thinking about especially coming to a new
59:02
situation And a private equity firm called me up once and he
59:05
said, hey, Kevin, we got this developing situation and, and we
59:09
want you to go in there and take ownership of it.
59:11
I said, OK, what is it? They said, well, it's a 200
59:14
person company and they're doing this and this and this and da
59:17
da, da, da. I said, OK, so when do you want
59:21
me to go And you know, we work out the deal and all that.
59:25
And then the you know, the head partner called me up.
59:28
He says, well, the first thing we want to do is we got to cut
59:30
costs. We want you to lay off 75 people
59:35
really. He said, well, who who goes,
59:39
well, we don't really care you just because we are cut the
59:43
expenditure. I said, well, you know
59:45
something, wouldn't it make sense that we pay attention a
59:48
little bit to what people do before we just arbitrarily go in
59:50
there and do this? And then I said, you know
59:52
something, you don't need me to do that.
59:55
That's not what I do. I if my job is to go in and like
59:58
fire 75 people, I'm not going to do this because the statistical
1:00:04
fact is that if you get a 10% or greater productivity lift from
1:00:10
the people that are there. Your turn around will be
1:00:13
successful. It doesn't take much.
1:00:16
And then the you know, you don't want to your your speed to
1:00:19
market and your speed to a turn around is based on lift and
1:00:23
growth and advancement of the people and what they can
1:00:26
accomplish day-to-day out. Especially when you think about
1:00:30
the scale of a company that's that large.
1:00:32
Now, not everybody will sign up for the new regime.
1:00:35
And so if there's an attitude problem or a willingness problem
1:00:39
or a confidence problem or, or, or credibility problem, they go
1:00:45
and I'm very quick, you know, when you know, it's sensitivity
1:00:48
to one person becomes insensitivity to the rest of the
1:00:51
group. I'm ahead of the curve on that.
1:00:53
I can tell you right now because I'm not going to poison the the
1:00:55
pot for those that are doing the job by somebody that's not
1:00:58
carrying their fair share. But at the end of the day,
1:01:00
you've got to be on the scene and make those decisions.
1:01:03
But at the end of the day, you think about the opportunity to
1:01:07
grow 10 to 12% productivity and make the turn around.
1:01:10
That's what I do. Love it.
1:01:13
Kevin, I've just got one more question for you today.
1:01:15
But before I ask it, I want to do 3 quick things for the
1:01:18
audience. First of all, you want to learn
1:01:20
more about what they're doing at top to bottom.
1:01:22
Their website is lettertthe#2bbsolutions.com.
1:01:29
T2 bbsolutions.com. We'll have that in the show
1:01:33
notes for everybody, but one more time, it's T2
1:01:36
bbsolutions.com. Also, if you're enjoying the
1:01:39
show, please take a moment to subscribe wherever you're
1:01:42
listening. It sends a signal that helps
1:01:45
others discover our podcast. So thank you for taking a quick
1:01:48
moment to do that right now. And as a reminder, you can be
1:01:52
the hero advisor that helps clients give their employees
1:01:54
access to therapists, doctors and prescription meds while
1:01:58
paradoxically increasing their net profits, real gains that can
1:02:02
change how a business is valued. Contact us today at AD back
1:02:05
benefits.com. So last question for you, Kevin.
1:02:08
A year from now, what is 1 very specific thing that you hope to
1:02:11
be celebrating? Well, personally or
1:02:20
professionally? Give me both.
1:02:23
Well, professionally it's I, I want top to bottom to be further
1:02:29
along the path to success that we've laid out three to five
1:02:33
years out. And I've got some very clear
1:02:36
measures in place to see where that's at.
1:02:39
And the other thing is I, I just, you know, I, I, I look at
1:02:45
everyday, excuse me one day at a time, especially at my age,
1:02:50
right? And I just, I'm glad if I'm
1:02:54
still here. I feel very fortunate about my,
1:02:57
my life and, and what's happened and, and to a large extent, my
1:03:01
wife and I and our grandkids and kids and all that are living a
1:03:04
dream out here in coastal North Carolina.
1:03:07
And it's like, I'm very, I feel very fortunate to have that.
1:03:12
And so I'm very thankful. Kevin Carlson from Top to Bottom
1:03:17
Business Solutions, I want to be the first to thank you for
1:03:19
sharing both your time and your story with us today.
1:03:21
I really appreciate you being here.
1:03:23
Anthony, this has just been a a real privilege and and benefit
1:03:26
for me. I really enjoyed our
1:03:28
conversation. Hopefully I didn't get too far
1:03:30
off the path for you, but if I can help create value for you
1:03:34
and your clients, I'm certainly glad to do it.
1:03:38
Folks, that's a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories
1:03:40
podcast. Thanks for learning with us.
1:03:42
And if one thing stood out, put that into action today.