Latest / The Sports Card CEO Podcast / Episode 47, S2: Big Matt x Little Matt Special | Finding Value in Cards

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Episode 47, S2: Big Matt x Little Matt Special | Finding Value in Cards · The Sports Card CEO Podcast

0:00
[SPEAKER_02]: What is happening to everybody?
0:01
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a little mat and big mat.
0:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to the sports card CEO.
0:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god.
0:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Did he get another one?
0:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, get those on his way back and get another one.
0:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Get them on his way back and get them on his way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their way back and get them on their
0:22
[SPEAKER_03]: a 40-70 season and a season of life in the other and naturely baseball history from one of the Koenia Junior.
0:32
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a drive right on the panel.
0:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Evan, Simon, we're amazing.
0:36
[SPEAKER_04]: He is happy.
0:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, it's this one, man.
0:40
[SPEAKER_04]: He's a liar, the left, my truck has ripped them all around.
0:44
[SPEAKER_00]: What's up, guys?
0:45
[SPEAKER_00]: It's my truck.
0:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm listening to Sports Park CEO.
0:48
[SPEAKER_00]: It's current.
0:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Buff on hand.
0:50
[SPEAKER_02]: a little man I have been a little routine here jumping on talking about the market just to file a new son talking about sports cars.
0:56
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what we've been doing for the last four years.
0:58
[SPEAKER_02]: It's worked really well for us and so we're just kind of inviting you guys in the conversation a little man was happening today buddy.
1:04
[SPEAKER_01]: What's up?
1:04
[SPEAKER_01]: What's up?
1:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I told you I said, I'm in too much cars recently and I just want to talk about cars with someone so I'm glad to jump on and we're going to have a lot of great information for you guys today so stay tuned and we're going to be dropping some
1:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for sure.
1:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So, forgive me if I seem a little off today, friends.
1:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I, uh, I'm moving a little slow.
1:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I had an accident on the boat over Labor Day weekend and it has definitely put some pauses in my step.
1:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I was jumping up on the boat and I grabbed the rail.
1:34
[SPEAKER_02]: My hand was wet and it slipped and I fell.
1:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think I may have cracked a rib because my age is showing.
1:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So, forgive me if I'm a little bit slow.
1:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm, I'm kind of in pain, but that Matthew don't make fun of me, okay?
1:46
[SPEAKER_01]: make fun of you guys and what happens when you turn 45 I guess you get that old age of old age of 45 and that's what happens, but big match of trooper he still jump it on the podcast and we're gonna have a great episode today.
1:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's kick it off.
1:58
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the first topic we got?
2:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Well the first topic is I know where you sleep, so just keep that in mind.
2:03
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do want to talk a little bit about, you know, the market's been nuts lately.
2:07
[SPEAKER_02]: It seems like cards are at a fever pitch.
2:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, non-sports card markets go in crazy.
2:13
[SPEAKER_02]: There's just a lot of news and a lot of hype around cards right now.
2:17
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a big dual logo man, I think.
2:19
[SPEAKER_02]: They just went on auction Kobe and LeBron and that on auction at Golden Right Now.
2:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it is.
2:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, so there's just, there's a lot of a lot of hype.
2:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So we've got a couple of topics we want to talk about.
2:28
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to talk about MBA grading.
2:30
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to talk about finding value within certain cards and parallels.
2:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we want to have a breakdown here of two of the most iconic cards of all time.
2:39
[SPEAKER_02]: The 1952 Top's Mickey Manel and the 1984 Star Jordan 101.
2:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, definitely.
2:46
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, before you that, you got first and I want to share something before we do that, I want to talk about this idea of what makes a card valuable.
2:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And little Matt, you and I have been working on this idea, we've been talking about it.
2:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, how could we create an index that recognizes iconic cards on multiple factors, right?
3:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And different factors.
3:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So the factors that we came up with, so the factors that we came up with, Kashira?
3:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
3:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So grade, so a 10 would obviously be 10, like 100 on the scale.
3:18
[SPEAKER_01]: This scale's all 100, but then like grade within the card, because some cars are notoriously off-center, like the Ricky Henderson 1980 tops.
3:26
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a card that in a nine is like a top tier, top tier grade perspective per card.
3:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Then it would be the image of the card, the rarity of the card, the player, the set, and then a bunch of other things that we are still figuring out.
3:40
[SPEAKER_01]: But we're trying to find cards that, you know, would be at the top of that list because there's some cards that vary iconic, like the griffy 89 upper deck.
3:48
[SPEAKER_01]: But in terms of rarity, it gets so 10 because there's hundreds of thousands of them.
3:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a one.
4:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so again, what modern card manufacturers did since the 90s is they started putting serial numbers on cards, which takes care of, you know, the player, of course, it takes care of the scarcity, you know, all that kind of stuff versus these cards that were printed in the 40s 50, 60, 70s 80s, like for example, we talked about this, the Nolan Ryan rookie, okay, the 1968 Nolan Ryan rookie,
4:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Which by the way, somebody told me the other day that no one Ryan is the most overrated pitcher in all of baseball.
4:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Blast to me.
4:34
[SPEAKER_02]: What, what, yeah, that's what I said.
4:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, dude, most no hitters all the time.
4:38
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, it doesn't matter.
4:39
[SPEAKER_02]: His win loss ratio.
4:41
[SPEAKER_02]: He was terrible.
4:42
[SPEAKER_02]: He lost every third time he went on the mound or whatever the thing was.
4:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And his ERA was like five plus or whatever.
4:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, well, if you're just judging a pitcher on his wins and his ERA.
4:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess you could probably make an argument there.
4:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I said, but you've got a 20 plus year career.
4:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Seven know hitters and all these strikeouts.
5:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I said, longevity and, you know, dominant strikeouts, whatever.
5:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, it was an interesting couple.
5:07
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a great point.
5:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, you think longevity and dominance of the league is a big important thing.
5:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, think about it.
5:14
[SPEAKER_02]: No one Ryan pitched against, you know, yeah, I agree with me.
5:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, for Blacks, I'm not saying it's the greatest player.
5:19
[SPEAKER_01]: That means LeBron James is the greatest player to ever play, because my dad just admitted on that so that longevity and pure dominance for that long matters more than stats.
5:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you for just thinking about the problem with LeBron James, the problem with LeBron James, and everybody would say this, and I would agree, the problem with LeBron James is his ability to win,
5:43
[SPEAKER_02]: You
5:43
[SPEAKER_02]: No one Ryan, his win loss ratio was not good.
5:46
[SPEAKER_02]: He never won a sion.
5:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he only has one, you know, world series.
5:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that was his point against it.
5:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, he has longevity.
5:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, he has all this kind of stuff.
5:56
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, anyway, it's an interesting conversation.
5:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to get us off track because then we could talk about this forever.
6:01
[SPEAKER_02]: But going back to our conversation about cards and value and ranking iconic cards, the 1968 No one Ryan Topscard,
6:13
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, how many grade copies of that card do you believe exist 38,000?
6:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we talked about this the other day.
6:20
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like high 30,000s of that card.
6:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So that card is not scarce, right?
6:25
[SPEAKER_02]: That set is not particularly iconic, you know?
6:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, a high grade of that card is rare because it doesn't grade well because of sintering.
6:34
[SPEAKER_02]: But like, would you put a 1968 top snow in Ryan on your top 100 cards of all time?
6:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it has a question though, like if a car would you put a one on one black finite like my homes ahead of it because it's rare and scarce has a good picture or you put an iconic art I put an iconic card on there because it's affordable a lot of people can own it like stuff like that.
7:00
[SPEAKER_02]: affordability was one of the other points that we made.
7:02
[SPEAKER_02]: So right now for those that are following along here, let me kind of try to bring this back in.
7:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Our conversation is around iconic cards and ranking iconic cards into setting what to value over another card.
7:12
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're trying to complete iconic card sets or just going after like key cards, affordability has to play into it.
7:19
[SPEAKER_02]: you know to mean the market that the player plays in plays into it because again if the guys a Yankee or if the guys a big market team he's going to have more collectors of that particular you know team then you've got the rarity scarcity you've got the image on the card I mean there's some cards that you know to mean they seem to be iconic but they're just basic images and then you've got the player the grade and the set and so that's one two three four five six that's seven different factors right now that we're kind of rating this on
7:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And I want to take that conversation and rank what I would say or two of the most iconic cards of all time.
7:50
[SPEAKER_02]: The 1952 top's Mickey Manel and the 1984 Star at Michael Jordan 101.
7:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, but two right now.
7:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So Matthew, how many graded copies do you think exist of the Mickey Manel?
8:01
[SPEAKER_01]: 3000.
8:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Three thousand three hundred and twenty six is the official card ladder value right now.
8:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
8:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Now here's the thing card ladder does not take into account regraded cards.
8:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So if a pop or a certain number hit it's going to account for that the Jordan star how many do you think exists graded all companies with that card and this is I think even more than the man all matters about regrades because of how many have been crossed from back in from back into PSA.
8:27
[SPEAKER_02]: correct.
8:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So how do you think?
8:29
[SPEAKER_01]: 2,500 total, but only 680 with PSA.
8:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's 689 with PSA and there's 3,400 total, which shows you there's been some crosses.
8:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Now here's the kicker with this thing.
8:40
[SPEAKER_02]: At the national, I saw high-speed car chase post this.
8:43
[SPEAKER_02]: At the national 15 Mickey Manel 52's were graded by PSA.
8:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
8:49
[SPEAKER_02]: How many star Jordans do you think were graded at the national?
8:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna take a guess because I saw them on our story and I'm gonna say four.
8:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, okay, four.
8:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So you, there's no card information you might can get by you because you see everything.
9:01
[SPEAKER_02]: So four star Jordans were graded to 15 Mickey Manels.
9:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Now it's really interesting.
9:05
[SPEAKER_02]: There's been a lot of star transactions lately.
9:08
[SPEAKER_02]: The lot of stars have been graded.
9:09
[SPEAKER_02]: What would you say is the last sale for a PSA six star Jordan?
9:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Did it have an MBA sticker?
9:16
[SPEAKER_02]: It did not have an MBA sticker.
9:17
[SPEAKER_01]: 89,000.
9:18
[SPEAKER_01]: 102,000 dollars.
9:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I would is what that card just did.
9:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It had an MBA silver though.
9:26
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it wasn't.
9:26
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a bronze, which is basically just a.
9:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you just said it didn't have an MBA sticker.
9:31
[SPEAKER_01]: The last.
9:31
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
9:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So what did the PSA 7 do?
9:43
[SPEAKER_02]: 140,000.
9:44
[SPEAKER_02]: 147.
9:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So do you know the last sale of a PSA 6 Mickey Manel, 1952 tops?
9:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You divine throwing a number.
9:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I throw out 400k.
9:55
[SPEAKER_02]: $690,000.
9:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
9:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
9:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
9:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Very, very fantastic.
9:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I appeal just sold on fanatics premiere 690k.
10:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And then a seven, just prior to that, did 716,000.
10:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
10:08
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you have the same, same, essentially the same pot all great, but they don't, but really they don't.
10:14
[SPEAKER_02]: But same graded number of copies is fairly close.
10:18
[SPEAKER_02]: 3300 to 3400.
10:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I get that some of those have been crossed.
10:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go PSA to PSA though, and I think there's like, but then you're 21, then you're 21, 100 to 689.
10:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
10:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So if your PSA six manual is doing 690k and your PSA six Jordan did 102k, let's say, or 100k, that would mean that the upside to the star, if all other factors are equal, if the market caps the same, if the demand is the same, you still have a six X upside in the star Jordan.
10:51
[SPEAKER_01]: That's six x upside to the mantle.
10:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Michael Jordan is a bigger name than Mickey Menel.
10:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Michael Jordan is more liked than Mickey Menel.
11:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Michael Jordan is known more globally than Mickey Menel.
11:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And Michael Jordan is still living.
11:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So he has more opportunities to have more polarization and influence on the world.
11:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Like honestly, if you went to the woman's 10 mall right now and asked to 100 people if they knew who Mickey Menel was, how many would say, yeah, no Mickey Menel is.
11:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Good question.
11:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say 43.
11:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Dude, I'd say, like 20.
11:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Like 20.
11:23
[SPEAKER_01]: If you went up and asked who knew Michael Jordan, how many would say?
11:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it'd be double that.
11:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Ninety 98.
11:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Because 70 80 percent.
11:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
11:31
[SPEAKER_01]: 70 80.
11:32
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
11:32
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not a person that mall who doesn't know who would not not know who Michael Jordan is.
11:36
[SPEAKER_02]: So here's a comment on this thing though.
11:39
[SPEAKER_02]: So the star 101, right?
11:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
11:42
[SPEAKER_02]: The image on the card is not great.
11:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Dude, no, the, the, the, the, the flea images.
11:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Way better.
11:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And you get the population on the flea is like 20 X.
11:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Threat.
11:51
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so it, it's, it, this is kind of the same man.
11:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm kind of stuck on this because everybody's talking about the star 101, the star 101, kind of overcoming and being the most iconic card of all time.
12:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm I'm I'm sold out on it a little bit like I don't know what to believe here tell you what at when we were doing it the only car that like like the star Jordan on that scale we had the seven things literally gets at least a 90 on every single one every single so like that that it's one of the best cards ever ever produced
12:22
[SPEAKER_02]: This story set.
12:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the 84 stars not a particularly popular set.
12:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, now it is because of that car.
12:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, but what I'm saying is for years, nobody collected it for that reason.
12:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't understand how a hobby could all of the sudden turn on the dime and have a car that was not valued to be the most sought after car out of the last five years.
12:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't get that.
12:43
[SPEAKER_02]: because it gets really like newly gets recognized like there's been sort of saying it's like once PSA did that it changed everything and I'm like that literally shows you how much influence PSA has if all of a sudden they go oh this is a cool card you know what I'm saying like that blows my mind
12:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but give me a delorean and take me back to 2020, 2021, and let me go buy every single star Jordan I can, and then all of a sudden, Nat Turner or whoever at PSA goes, oh, this is a great card, and you literally watched that card go 100x overnight almost.
13:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't go 100x, that's excessive.
13:19
[SPEAKER_02]: It didn't go 50x.
13:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't even go 50x.
13:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Before PSA was gradient, they were still expensive.
13:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Look it up on Carl Latter right now.
13:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm on my phone, so I can't.
13:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Just go to, if you look it up on Carl Latter, see what like a BGS8 was doing.
13:32
[SPEAKER_01]: BGS8's are like 130k right now.
13:36
[SPEAKER_01]: See what they were doing?
13:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You can type in the date and just put before 2020, like 2020.
13:42
[SPEAKER_01]: First definitely not 50x.
13:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's see, September 7th of 2020.
13:46
[SPEAKER_02]: A BGS9 did 30 k. Now BGS9 does 300.
13:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's 10 x.
13:53
[SPEAKER_02]: But here's a BGS8 did.
13:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it's, well, BGS8 did 72 100.
14:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and now, so like, yeah, it's like 10 to 15 x.
14:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But definitely not 150.
14:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So a BGSA-8, a BGS-8 now would do what?
14:09
[SPEAKER_01]: 130, 140?
14:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so that's 20x.
14:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's just interesting to me anyway, but that was in 2020.
14:15
[SPEAKER_02]: But the thing is, as you could go buy a BGS-3 for like three grand, you know what I mean, like next to nothing.
14:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, sealed packs were going for 8, 9, 10k.
14:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just feel like, you know, I know you're take on this, but like this is one of those things like, how do you decide Ultimately like which and your your objective is is that Michael Jordan has longer sustainability because there's more people alive right now that know who he is
14:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think his polarization on the game like I don't think he's the best best of all time, but I think his polarization on the game is probably the biggest of all time just because like ability like no one dislike Michael Jordan.
14:57
[SPEAKER_01]: and how would you say the NBA was more popular now or more popular in the 90s?
15:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he changed the game.
15:04
[SPEAKER_02]: He brought, you know what I mean?
15:05
[SPEAKER_01]: My question is, like, what kids like, sit down and turn on the NBA right now?
15:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't watch the NBA.
15:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I watch the finals, but like, when you were a kid, would you sit down and watch Michael Jordan play?
15:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
15:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
15:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So the NBA was like, very popular when he was playing.
15:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know.
15:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that he has a much more like, he has way bigger of a fan base than Mickey Mantle does.
15:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And the difference with Jordan though is that, you know, if you look at total number of cards ever produced for Michael Jordan, there's, there's astronomically more than Mickey Manel.
15:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So the market, the market cap is spread among more assets among more cards.
15:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Because there was a lot of these, you know, exquisite patches and all those and stuff that were low number to whatever, like, so that's where a lot of his market cap is getting eaten up where Manel nobody else has anywhere to go.
15:56
[SPEAKER_02]: 15 years of cards produced, you know, and maybe a couple variations in each set.
16:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's probably a total of, I mean, during playing years produced, there's probably a total of, what would you say 30, maybe 35, making mental cards ever?
16:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just like the Bronx bombers and the home run leaders, like all those cards, but yeah, probably.
16:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So with Michael Jordan, you know, Michael Jordan had 35 cards in the Skybox set.
16:20
[SPEAKER_02]: It feels like.
16:21
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
16:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's what's so different about it where you're getting a saturated market for so many different cards.
16:28
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just a really interesting thing.
16:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So do you feel like 10 years from now?
16:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Star 101's prices will be closer to Mickey Manel prices or do you think that Mickey Manel will keep the strong lead?
16:40
[SPEAKER_01]: think Mickey Mannell will definitely keep a lead, but I think Star Jordan's and 10 years will be where Mickey Mannell's are right now.
16:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Right now.
16:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Star Jordan's 6 is and 10 years will be half a million.
16:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Half million dollars.
16:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
16:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's your upside there.
16:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So again, these are fun little games a little Matt and I play.
16:55
[SPEAKER_02]: We talk about this a lot.
16:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And we'll pick out cards.
16:58
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like we'll pick out like right now.
17:00
[SPEAKER_02]: The other day we were looking at the
17:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Both very similar in, you know, population, both very similar in kind of the IAPL, they're like these red back, you know, with the facial expression, the 48 has Ted Williams batting, but the Ted Williams 48 probably does double what the 41 play ball does in the similar grade or at least probably 60% higher.
17:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So when you can kind of like start to understand and figure out like cards and values and all kinds of stuff and analyze that market data, you can capitalize on that when you have conviction and a card.
17:36
[SPEAKER_02]: So Matthew, that leads us to the next point of this conversation.
17:39
[SPEAKER_02]: In this kind of market where things are just going crazy, how do you get creative and find value with cards?
17:45
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to look at certain things.
17:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to look at like if it's a card with a set or like a kaboom card, you have to find which kabooms of the certain player has the lowest population, the best image that I felt the year makes a good difference.
18:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a 2015 LeBron versus a 2018 LeBron's going to be huge difference.
18:06
[SPEAKER_01]: because in 2015, I mean, it wasn't really a significant year for a LeBron.
18:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But in 2018, 2018 LeBron, James Wright, arguably one of the best players of all time, went to the finals that year, like, I think that the year makes a really big difference.
18:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So, the, again, getting kind of specific here, you've bought two LeBron James Cubooms and two Patrick Mahomes Cubooms over the last, you know, two months.
18:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
18:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Why did you buy those cards?
18:30
[SPEAKER_02]: What were the cards?
18:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Why did you buy them?
18:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So I bought the 2024 Patrick Mahum's vertical caboom PSA 9 and then about the 2023 Patrick Mahum's vertical caboom in a PSA 9.
18:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So I bought those two.
18:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So what I noticed his Patrick Mahum's caboom's the horizontal ones.
18:45
[SPEAKER_01]: The 2024 horizontal has lit.
18:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I think has like
18:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you might pop down that right now, 2024, Patrick McCombs could boom, but basically, the horizontal commoombs, there's lots of hundreds and hundreds.
18:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And the vertical commoombs, the 2023 vertical, only has about 26 graded and the 2024 has around that number.
19:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So extremely rare compared to the horizontal, and if there's a 10x difference in pop, and only a 2x difference in price, I think that's a great value.
19:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that the 2020 and the other things
19:19
[SPEAKER_01]: The 2022 Patrick Mom's commitment is a similar pop count as a pop 24, and a PSA 8 is did 8,000 when the last sale on a PSA 9 of the 2024 vertical is only like 4500.
19:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that that card should be closer to value than the 2022.
19:36
[SPEAKER_02]: The 2024 my homes, if I'm looking at it right, it says there's only like 15 copies graded.
19:41
[SPEAKER_01]: No, look at the horizontal that.
19:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I was looking at the vertical.
19:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so the vertical is 15 copies grade 9, 115.
19:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Go look at the horizontal.
19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So we've got 2024.
19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: My homes could be.
19:50
[SPEAKER_02]: There's 900.
19:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So 900 compared to 15 and there's only a two X price difference.
19:56
[SPEAKER_01]: That's insane.
19:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, here's the thing.
19:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but if you look at this, the gold, which is number 10, did 47,000.
20:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So 47,000 for five less copies is what you're saying.
20:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's what it appears to be if card letters accurate.
20:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So, all right, card letters accurate, which there's only our card letters is a great job.
20:16
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have card letter.
20:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I strongly recommend it.
20:18
[SPEAKER_01]: But 15 copies great of the 2024 and it does 4,500 to 5k and the goal there's 10 copies of and it does 47,000.
20:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, that seems a bit bad.
20:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I went, sorry, sorry, that's a little off.
20:31
[SPEAKER_02]: That was BGS.
20:32
[SPEAKER_02]: There's 13 copies with BGS.
20:34
[SPEAKER_02]: It looks like total population on the 2024 Vertical Mahomes Caboom is 30.
20:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, even still, that's insane.
20:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think it should be at least a $10,000 card, maybe a bit more.
20:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You're seeing a lot of these Tom Brady Cabooms, even once which ridiculously high pop counts.
20:52
[SPEAKER_01]: go for tens of thousands of dollars in PSA nines and bucks jerseys too.
20:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think my homes could boom scene up rise.
20:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Patrick Holmes is still top two player in the league in my opinion.
21:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm a really big my homes glaser, but I think that my homes cards are extremely undervalued.
21:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I think especially his vertical could boom, so I'm really happy to pick those two up.
21:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And then going on the LeBron could boom.
21:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So you mind looking up the pop count of a 2019 LeBron
21:20
[SPEAKER_01]: There hasn't been a sale in a while, but just click, you pop count.
21:23
[SPEAKER_01]: But this card, I person a PSA 9.
21:26
[SPEAKER_01]: There hasn't been a PSA 9 sales since March.
21:28
[SPEAKER_01]: If y'all know the market on cadums is literally almost doubled.
21:31
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like dunkin' over his head.
21:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
21:33
[SPEAKER_02]: There's, it says pop 21.
21:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll excuse me, with that's just PSA.
21:37
[SPEAKER_02]: 52 total graded.
21:38
[SPEAKER_02]: The last PSA 9 did 10-5.
21:41
[SPEAKER_01]: When?
21:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yesterday.
21:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Really my gosh, that's really good for me.
21:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go.
21:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go.
21:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So I didn't know that was a sale there.
21:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So live reaction, but transparent.
21:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I paid $8500 on that card last week.
21:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was value a PSA 10 deck.
21:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You Compject me a PSA 10 to 25,000 23 18 win and then 25 before that win 23 was August 23rd and the 25k was June 24th.
22:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So the 23K sales seems really cheap because it did 25K in June.
22:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's a $30,000 card in PS810.
22:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So I saw the sale of the PS810 at 25K, and I figured the nine was like three times less than that, but the market's gone up.
22:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think I made a good buy there.
22:21
[SPEAKER_01]: 52 total graded.
22:23
[SPEAKER_01]: First year, Lakers, they won the championship.
22:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a bubble championship, but, you know,
22:27
[SPEAKER_01]: still got the chip that year.
22:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I bought the 2020 kabooom.
22:31
[SPEAKER_01]: The 2020 kabooom is special because I think the image the Amazon is insane and he's got like got the crown.
22:37
[SPEAKER_01]: It's cramory out of products but it's got like the crown and the image is great.
22:42
[SPEAKER_01]: A PSA 10's 15k.
22:43
[SPEAKER_01]: There's like a hundred grated of it and I got the PSA 9.
22:46
[SPEAKER_01]: for $5,500 at the national.
22:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's probably a $7,000 card.
22:51
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you can find value, especially in cabooms, I mean, we've talked about it for years there.
22:55
[SPEAKER_01]: That we think cabooms could be the next PMGs, especially the grain in the gold.
22:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you can find these rare cabooms, they're gonna be just as valuable because when people realize how rare they are, I mean, they're gonna eventually catch up at some point and I could see these rare cabooms, I could see these rare cabooms with 20, 30, 40 copies,
23:16
[SPEAKER_02]: So within the Kaboom kind of world, you know, I guess for people taking this away is you've got to understand there's horizontal and there's vertical, vertical, obviously there's much less of those.
23:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Understanding that population count, you're just basically saying that the market hasn't really called up to it because they kind of throw all the Kabooms in one bucket and then those who are kind of like up and up, they're, you know, the high-end's looking at greens and golds, but you're saying vertical Kabooms just present value right now when you break down the rest of the market.
23:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely and I like I don't care if it's a horizontal could boom, but if it's rare, I think it's a buy.
23:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Any card they're like, so Go ahead.
23:54
[SPEAKER_02]: They do look cool too.
23:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it did a good job on the design and then also too, it's kind of like, you know, tops taken over production.
24:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Piny Piny was in the in the zone there for a few years with that kind of print run.
24:05
[SPEAKER_02]: It'll be interesting to see how it, you know, the staying power of it.
24:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, another thing I think is important too is I talked about earlier the year of the card.
24:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the year matters a lot more than people think because you know there's some years like 1998 Michael Jordan hit the game one in shot won the finals like that's an important year for Michael Jordan cards.
24:25
[SPEAKER_01]: versus a 2003 Michael Jordan when he saw him a wizard.
24:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, that matters a lot.
24:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Or like a 2015 Steph Curry, unanimous MVP, NBA finals champion, like I think stuff like that matters a lot more than people think.
24:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, so how do you think it matters for a guy like LeBron, who's bounced around from the heat to the cabs to the lakeers, now the sixers?
24:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I think 20, I think 2013, well, here's what I thought.
24:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought LeBron was gonna go to the Miami heat.
24:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted to buy a 2013 LeBron Kabum.
24:54
[SPEAKER_01]: first year heat caboom and I thought he was going to go back to the heat and I thought that car was going to skyrocket and it turns out he went to the fixture so I was wrong but I think the year matters actually at the east end amount like especially like 2016 LeBron probably the greatest finals come back of all time like his caboom from that year is good value it's like it's a terrible image that's the only thing it sucks about it
25:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I hate the design that you're going to do so when you're getting into when you're getting into kind of breaking this stuff down how do you relate this to the baseball market because you know, Bowman Chrome is coming out this week and Bowman is starting to add a lot of new parallels and things like this and the other day you were talking to me about a minion card or something and I was like what even is this you know what I mean and then they did the garbage pill kids and I think we've been
25:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, minion cards are the stupidest thing like the players not even on the card.
25:46
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not any no picture of the player.
25:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's the stupidest thing I've ever seen.
25:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, but my point, but my point is is now with the non-sports market, pop culture stuff with the Disney and the Marvel and all this kind of stuff.
25:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Those kind of crossover cards, you know,
26:02
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you begin to translate this value into the baseball card market because, you know, Bowman Chrome, Bowman, there's all these different inserts and SSPs.
26:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they started to do it years ago and you have like the spotlights who are like, oh, those are cool.
26:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, then they started to do the, like, what's the show time with the show?
26:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, is that a manga?
26:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Showtime would be the three goes alter egos.
26:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, here's another thing yes, but here's the thing that you can look at like the alter egos Otani is a $20,000 card in the PSA nine, but you can get like a garbage pill kids like I bought one for 1500 like I don't know how different the pop counts are but the cards like just an insert difference can literally make like tens of thousands of dollars so like I would check pop
26:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
26:45
[SPEAKER_02]: What I'm saying is this who gets to decide, but who gets to decide which inserts win, like, you know, which inserts are value.
26:52
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a good question.
26:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think, phonetic.
26:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Is this a ready-made rookie?
26:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
26:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Phenetics does a really good job.
26:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Is this how Stuart ready yetting that?
27:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Dad, I will say, fanatics is a really good job of pumping the insert that they want to do well.
27:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, they did a really good job of pumping the minions card.
27:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, posting minion, Steph Curry card, minion, Cooper Flag card.
27:12
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, they were posted on the tops and the fanatics account.
27:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And people would repost it, make it think it's cool.
27:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, a thing to the top shows really well is like, when the product is about to come out, they'll post like, first look at 20, 26 tops, come up, they basketball.
27:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And the five images they put on there are the cards that they want you to buy.
27:29
[SPEAKER_01]: The cards they want you to see.
27:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So they posted the Cooper Flag True Blue Auto and they posted a LeBron James Alter Egos.
27:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the LeBron Alter Egos from two years ago does a thousand dollars for the LeBron Alter Egos this year, just because it's a picture of him sitting on a throne, the 15k.
27:45
[SPEAKER_02]: That's interesting.
27:46
[SPEAKER_02]: So, so then talk to me about this.
27:48
[SPEAKER_02]: These are two show hey SSPs.
27:50
[SPEAKER_02]: They're his rookie card.
27:52
[SPEAKER_02]: They were both the top's release and their image variations.
27:55
[SPEAKER_02]: One is that.
27:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And I care the importance of that card.
27:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Please explain to me.
27:58
[SPEAKER_02]: You have a please explain to me why a top's chrome batting show hey that is literally 10 to 20 X the pop of these cards.
28:08
[SPEAKER_02]: You mean selling from the same prices these cards?
28:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You mean bum and crap.
28:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's what I meant, sorry.
28:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So first off, I'd like to tell you your wrong.
28:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to tell you your wrong.
28:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And if not 10 to 20x, it's more of like a 100x.
28:19
[SPEAKER_01]: There are 6,000 PSA 10's alone of the Bowman Kremot Tony.
28:24
[SPEAKER_01]: There are 150 total great of that pitch.
28:28
[SPEAKER_01]: No, Tony.
28:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Those two show hey SSPs.
28:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to give you all a quick brief rundown on why those cards are important.
28:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Show hair is fixed tops SSPs that y'all probably familiar with.
28:37
[SPEAKER_01]: The hand on helmet is the rarest and it does the most.
28:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he has other ones like the warm up.
28:42
[SPEAKER_01]: He has like one where he's like warming up.
28:44
[SPEAKER_01]: He has the carrying bag from Bowman Crumb.
28:46
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a really big card.
28:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And he has the, I think one of the is like the width back.
28:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's like holding his back.
28:52
[SPEAKER_01]: The cool thing about these two that we have, one of them is the only one of him pitching and one is the only one of him hitting.
28:58
[SPEAKER_01]: there's no other ones of him hitting your pitch.
29:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you see that and you see this is the only Otani SSP of him hitting, it should be a lot bigger carbon.
29:07
[SPEAKER_01]: The importance of those cards is going to be insane.
29:10
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to be a really expensive card.
29:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you feel like the with cards that are rare images in such low population that are not specifically serial numbered?
29:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think that the hobby does not respond to them because they don't know what they are?
29:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's a perfect example when you're looking at cow rupken cards.
29:28
[SPEAKER_01]: A cow rupken 82 tops traded does $12,000 on a PSA 10 and there's $400 and you have a rose zero legacy that there's eight of them in the world sitting on your shelf and it does two K like that makes zero sense of my life.
29:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean again, and that's that's kind of.
29:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just because people know the card.
29:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if you're a Jordan, if you want to buy a Jordan card, does your immediate thought go to?
29:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to buy thunder and lightning or I want to buy a flier.
29:52
[SPEAKER_01]: For a new collector getting the United States flag.
29:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
29:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the exact reason.
29:57
[SPEAKER_01]: The same thing with the 89 Griffey upper deck.
30:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Would you rather have Griffey Lynch pens that there's 80 of that was $500 to years ago or the $4,000 PSA 10 upper deck?
30:08
[SPEAKER_02]: absolutely well and again that goes back to our original conversation with trying to rank iconic cards.
30:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah and again I am of the mindset right now it's like that's why I'm struggling in the hobby because I don't want to own I could care less to own an 89 star or an 89 star Griffey.
30:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I just keep care less to own it because it's so overproduced, it's so common, you know to mean?
30:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, but when I want to get into rare stuff, it's like, I see the value in it, but sometimes I struggle because the hobby doesn't see the value.
30:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, you and I argue about this all the time, it's like, who cares about owning a card if it's worth a hundred dollars?
30:44
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
30:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what's cool about owning a card sometimes is how much the hobby values it because you feel like you got something that's valuable.
30:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think another thing that's like, I think another, I don't know, like I, I think it's a great point that you made up about iconic versus rare, like it's the argument that we could go on for days, but to sum it up, like, I, if it's me give me rare, I either have rare over iconic.
31:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of people through collectors would rather have an iconic card just because it's what they owned when they were a kid or it's the nostalgia like our buddy David always said do the car I was always trying to pull the 96 tops Kobe when I was a kid and now
31:24
[SPEAKER_01]: There's like a million of them out there and like it's just I don't know.
31:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's nostalgia for a lot of people, but the other point I want to make is about how you said new people come in the hobby, they're going to go buy an 89 griffy up, up or deck instead of going and buying a riffy lunch pit, right?
31:41
[SPEAKER_01]: People are making the point now that boy, it's this is different from COVID.
31:45
[SPEAKER_01]: This this pump is different from COVID because people aren't buying tray lands.
31:49
[SPEAKER_01]: They're they're smarter now.
31:51
[SPEAKER_01]: They're buying Michael Jordan.
31:52
[SPEAKER_01]: just because they're buying Michael Jordan doesn't mean they're buying them at good prices.
31:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if you pay $100,000 for a flea PSA 9, okay you bought Michael Jordan but like the price is still way too hot.
32:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think people overlook that because a lot of people have the mindset that this is going to go on forever and ever.
32:10
[SPEAKER_01]: But if people are paying insane prices for not rare cards then it's not going to go on for much longer.
32:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, you know, what's interesting too is something else that I've recognized when to transition a little bit into this Disney market because for those who follow us on Instagram, you know, my brother, big Disney fan worked at Disney has started to get into the Disney cards.
32:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And we said, sure, man, we'll share it out on our, our socials and, you know, supported a little bit.
32:29
[SPEAKER_02]: We went and picked up a few cards and, and whatnot.
32:32
[SPEAKER_02]: But,
32:32
[SPEAKER_02]: everybody's selling them like everybody's selling them right like when when these cards the couple years ago people were actually collecting them and all sudden the trends started to happen and everybody started to liquidate because their cards had gone like 10, 15, 20, X, you know to mean like that's also too what makes a card in my opinion valuable is when it's not readily available all the time and you know I have a hard time in this market understanding how many of these
33:00
[SPEAKER_02]: griffy rookies can transact and there's still be buyers on them because ultimately it's like man, it's some point in time.
33:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, how many copies are there and how many people want those copies?
33:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
33:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I can play Legery.
33:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So I bought three cards this week, right?
33:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is really rare for me.
33:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Big Big buying week for Big Matt.
33:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I bought the 1997 Flair Ultra Platinum Adagion Cal Ripkin.
33:21
[SPEAKER_02]: which again, you never see that card.
33:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I've owned it one time and I grated it and I sold it because I'd made like 7x on the card.
33:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I paid 100 bucks for it sold it for like $700.
33:31
[SPEAKER_02]: But I found another copy and I bought it because it was like, dude, they were said to have printed less than 200 of these.
33:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I've only ever seen probably five for sale in four years.
33:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I bought that card.
33:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, and I paid $300 for it or something, you know?
33:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I bought the 93 finest refractor, which is the first year refractors.
33:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been chasing this card forever, and I probably overpaid a little bit on it, but I was like, I'm gonna buy this card, because I bought it one time, it got lost at PSA, I got refunded, I've tried to buy it in different grades, and I've never been successful.
34:02
[SPEAKER_02]: So I bought a raw copy, it like 1300 bucks.
34:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, first year refractor is just a rare highly sold after the 93 finest set.
34:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I bought a ripkin soul of the game today.
34:13
[SPEAKER_02]: a ripkin soul of the game.
34:14
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got the Kobe Bryant's.
34:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:16
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got the Kobe Bryant soul of the game.
34:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Just did $2,500?
34:19
[SPEAKER_02]: $50.
34:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you know much about the ripkin for?
34:23
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the same.
34:25
[SPEAKER_02]: $82.
34:25
[SPEAKER_02]: $82.
34:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm sitting here makes me mad because I'm like, I know Carp can Jr. isn't Kobe Bryant, but like $2,582.
34:31
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I'm saying?
34:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Like for the same kind of insert and stuff.
34:35
[SPEAKER_02]: So I feel like you just have to have the stones to kind of hold these cards long, and they've got to do well.
34:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I mean, sure.
34:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But just feel like maybe 99 gold finest that sold yesterday.
34:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You bid on the $19.99 finest RIPKIN PSA 10.
34:49
[SPEAKER_01]: The last it was $800 in the April, and it went for $1,700 on auction yesterday.
34:56
[SPEAKER_01]: because people are realizing that double.
35:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Every single one that gets bought is going straight into someone's collection and it's not gonna become available.
35:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But have you seen a PMG, have you seen a PMG rip can available the 1998?
35:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You've been looking for that car for so long.
35:12
[SPEAKER_01]: You haven't found one available.
35:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Nope.
35:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
35:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I haven't seen one in a year.
35:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
35:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, I think that's where, you know, for people who get into the hobby and start to understand like, you can go after deep value on these types of cards that are like, maybe not the star player, like your griffies, your jeers or, you know, whoever from that era, you can go after these kind of like all players and find some pretty value, pretty good value in cards.
35:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Because these these cards were just not
35:41
[SPEAKER_02]: produced.
35:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, to me, that's more fun than kind of just doing the run the mill going after, like, you know, what's up the layout?
35:49
[SPEAKER_02]: We bought a show hay of Tony, you bought a show hay of Tony, like, what was it a mercury or something like that?
35:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Like a top from cosmic, you know, and like, you know, you bought it, sold it off.
35:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm almost like a fire out or whatever.
36:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm just like, I don't know, man, just that kind of
36:04
[SPEAKER_02]: You didn't lose 500 dollars.
36:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I think he's sold the other lot.
36:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so the thing is it's like I just I have a hard time getting excited about these newer cards now I'm really struggling to kind of find because like I don't have the boom and player were after you know the Connors of the world of debut the walkers of the world of debut the you know all the guys it's so like
36:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Instead of going for the next Bowman guy and going for the next Bowman color, like I'm trying to find something else to kind of get me intrigued or whatnot.
36:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's where I go after these harder to find, you know, inserts or these vintage cards and these great eye appeals, like that's what's kept my hobby interest alive.
36:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think for folks that are really in it, you've got to be able to do that in order to kind of stay fresh with it,
36:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Shaquille O'Neill and Allen Iverson are up literally 300% in the last month.
37:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Shaquille O'Neill cards that were 2K are now going for 10K.
37:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And first it was Jordan Kobe and then it was like Mabron and Curry and now you see it's like these older players.
37:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Next it could be like 10 Duncan.
37:16
[SPEAKER_01]: right?
37:16
[SPEAKER_01]: For football, it was Brady Mahomes.
37:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Now it's like Manning Sanders.
37:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So for baseball, all we've seen so far is Griffey Bonds.
37:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Does that mean guys like Chipper Jones and Cal Ripkin are going to be next?
37:28
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're looking at the great 90s players, I think Chipper Tony Gwyn, like all those players have a lot of room to grow up, like go just because of the players like
37:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I mean, again, hopefully so.
37:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, maybe one of these days, there'll be some love for my, for my guy Ripkin.
37:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'll be in a good spot because I've got a lot of cool ones, but I will say this, you know, finding things that you can kind of like, and you know, get fired up about again.
37:56
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, one of the things that I would say have been in the hobby now since, you know, we've been really strong in it for four years now.
38:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know what, dude?
38:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be honest, the NFL kicks off next weekend and the twins were talking to me about their fantasy team and they're like, Dad, what do you think about this guy was like, I don't know.
38:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know who he is.
38:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
38:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
38:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
38:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
38:13
[SPEAKER_02]: You know the mean, like, I don't have, I don't have anything.
38:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm really excited about him.
38:16
[SPEAKER_01]: We went through that phase where we had all the two in J.L.
38:20
[SPEAKER_01]: and Watercards and we watched the Dolphins play every week.
38:24
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, the NFL is just like, it's so risky, man.
38:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can see a player do so well and his market still not go up because of how overpriced he was all right.
38:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah.
38:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for sure.
38:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, you got these quarterback.
38:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So who's the quarterback?
38:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Like Caleb Williams has been getting a lot of, you know, I come into the season after going to the playoffs last year.
38:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I think Bryce Young made the play.
38:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Really top five could be a top five quarterback this year.
38:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think his market would go up that much.
38:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Just because of how much he just because of how much he went up this summer.
38:53
[SPEAKER_01]: for no apparent reason other than he beat the packers and like I'm telling you do like I think he's ridiculously overpriced he hasn't done anything like Jane Daniels is underpriced Jane Daniels had an incredible rookie season got hurt he's gonna have a great season this year and he still have to put literally half the price of pale Williams and Jane Daniels is a better player
39:13
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it'll be, it'll be fun when they start playing again and you can kind of see some movement or whatever.
39:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's just like the exhausting part to me is like trying to figure out who the next guy is and put your money where your mouth is, your mind is, and then kind of waiting to see if they perform.
39:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I don't like that as much dude.
39:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't it feels like I'm I'm throwing a bet down on a on Vandal or something like I I liked Walker because he was local to us, you know what I mean?
39:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the guys that we really bought that we liked You know of course Connor like there was some legitimate like conviction about like their skill set You know what I mean, but like due to such a risky game man like it is such a risky game It's like getting in and get out, you know what I mean and like I just don't like playing risk now game
39:57
[SPEAKER_01]: completely agree with you.
39:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And we realized that, you know, we went through that phase of prospecting and now we're like, dude, just give me Michael Jordan, just give me Brady, just give me a little brown.
40:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we've absolutely crushed it on the goat market.
40:12
[SPEAKER_01]: you buy the right cards, even if the whole other market goes down, I think you do find buying the right the right the buying the right no cards.
40:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's the thing.
40:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
40:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I think right now the next season.
40:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was just going to share about what you finish with all.
40:25
[SPEAKER_01]: A card, what's the card that you think of?
40:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a card that immediately, I think of that has the same image, but a totally different population.
40:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I was thinking that Jordan Lynch pens and the Jordan natural born thrillers.
40:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Same, they, they, the cards literally look the exact same, but the lunch pens is 10 times rare and does 10 times more.
40:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a card that I think you say.
40:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that seems fair, that seems like it makes sense, right?
40:49
[SPEAKER_01]: But then you look at a card like a Jordan Star Quest red.
40:53
[SPEAKER_01]: There's like five levels of Star Quest.
40:54
[SPEAKER_01]: There's green blue red.
40:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I know there's a gold, the gold's really expensive.
40:59
[SPEAKER_01]: A red star quest Jordan just sold for like 25,000 in a PSA 10 and it's a pop like 50.
41:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I just bought the blue star quest PSA 10 for $1,800 and it's only a pop 100.
41:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So two X pop difference, 10 X price difference.
41:14
[SPEAKER_01]: When you see something that don't make sense in my mind, that means it's a pop.
41:17
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so that's kind of somewhat what we're talking about with bone and like an orange and a red right it's fit as fifth is rare, but if there's not doing double you know the mean it's the same same kind of concept versus a blue which is 150 but a gold is 50 it's a third is rare, but if it's only doing double you know the gold is going to have more more cloud.
41:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But all of that said, I think what's really interesting about all this is I still think there's value within these iconic goat type players like if you look at a 20 a 2000 in nine Steph Curry tops right like PSA 10 super low pop compared to a Jordan I know he's not Jordan, but just compare it to a Jordan population and pricing or compare a nine population and pricing you know to mean I think like a seven nine's doing like what six K right now.
42:06
[SPEAKER_02]: and a Jordan's doing how much in a non-fifty five.
42:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're talking about a 10x pretty much or pretty close to it.
42:12
[SPEAKER_02]: 8x difference.
42:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what the pop difference is.
42:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's something on the PSA 10 the pop is almost identical as well.
42:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, I feel like Steph Curry is a collectible name going into the next 20 25 years and so I think there's great value and curry.
42:27
[SPEAKER_02]: But you can do stuff like that.
42:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we even talked about like the early 1980s like the Larry Bird stuff, you know what I mean?
42:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the Larry Bird for solo card.
42:36
[SPEAKER_02]: That card in a PSA non does 1,500.
42:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're like, wait a second.
42:40
[SPEAKER_02]: That card does 1,500, Steph Curry does 7.
42:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Like again, when you have a name like Bird,
42:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like that there's more meat on that bone from a value perspective.
42:51
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we've seen the Larry Bird 1980 with the Magic Johnson Judy serving those cards have bumped up here lately.
42:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Point being is there are cards and there are players that are being a little bit slept on and overlooked because everybody's chasing the latest greatest shiny prospect or shiny new football player or whatever.
43:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's opportunities over here to just go find really cool rare stuff and again, if you have conviction in it, it doesn't really matter if you're making quick turns on it, but like put this stuff away for a little bit and watch the market do it.
43:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Mark is going right like it is everything's going to go up, but if the market goes down and you have the right stuff, that's going to go up.
43:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I feel like the rarity and scarcity is going to drive it.
43:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, I'd love to hear from our listeners like when you're looking at collectability of cards, you know, and you're looking at value systems.
43:39
[SPEAKER_02]: When you start talking about players and all this kind of stuff, it would be really interesting for us to do an episode one time, Matthew, of like really like ranking the top 20 most iconic athletes of all time.
43:48
[SPEAKER_02]: you know and and then and then see and like okay you know because I saw a guy other day talking about Wayne Grettsky and he had Wayne Grettsky's rookie in his top five iconic cards of all time and I was like I don't get that dude.
44:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean it's ridiculously iconic you know.
44:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the most iconic hockey card of all time absolutely.
44:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably a top it's probably a top 10 card of all time like 52
44:18
[SPEAKER_02]: and like a a bay brews County.
44:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it was in his list.
44:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Those ones you just mentioned and then a goutty Ruth and then he put grasskeeper.
44:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, yeah.
44:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, again, so I'd take grass skis more like I said, I caught them.
44:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're interesting.
44:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't agree with that.
44:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Take it all.
44:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, I don't care for hockey, so whatever, like who cares, you know what I mean, like no disrespect to the game or hit, but it's just not something that I'm, you know, I don't relate to it at all.
44:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Whereas I would relate more to Larry Bird than I would Wayne Gretsky, you know, or Steph Curry for that matter, because you guys have always liked him.
44:49
[SPEAKER_02]: But all right, dude, well, that, you know, again, this is just like a conversation.
44:53
[SPEAKER_02]: These are the kind of conversations we have all the time we just started to do one on the podcast and talk about that.
44:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So I would say, closing up Matthew, you know, where do you feel like you're going from here?
45:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we've had a really good year, you know, we had an early season of a bunch of prospect run up into to the, you know, debut, opening day MLB, then we kind of switch gears and went into goat stuff for the national or whatnot.
45:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're kind of like lean right now on inventory.
45:16
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we've got a bunch of options ending and it's kind of like, man, I don't even know where to go from here because stuff's gotten so expensive.
45:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what do you mean, it's a good question.
45:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Another big thing that's like tough, grading's extremely tough right now because of how long PSA's taking.
45:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But dude, if I can just, you know, I don't want to force any purchases.
45:32
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so that's something that you taught me very early on.
45:35
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, if you can't buy a lot, you know, if you're having a hard time buying,
45:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't go buy something just to buy.
45:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I felt like I just did that on that Otonny Mercury I just wanted to get a deal done.
45:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to buy something so I bought like a 3300 dollar lot And I probably lost like 400 500 bucks on it just because I tried to I wanted to get a deal That I was it's gonna get a deal done so I'm not gonna force anything But I think there's really good value buying on eBay right now like I just picked up a Jordan East West for Fractor on eBay I'll crush it on that card.
46:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I can keep buying iconic rare stuff
46:09
[SPEAKER_01]: stuff to gravy them BA.
46:11
[SPEAKER_01]: We never really got to talk about that, but if I can find a fresh label card that I think would MBA, I think it's a good buy, and if then if I can find a nice PSA 9 to crack and throw another shot at PSA, I think it's a good idea.
46:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you just got to be really strategic.
46:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I think about where you're going right now.
46:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And also, too, man, you're going to see the baseball thing we've been talking about the lockout.
46:30
[SPEAKER_02]: What that's going to do.
46:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's great opportunity in the off season.
46:34
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, again, Pico Armstrong is the example.
46:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Pico had an early peak.
46:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Pico fell off.
46:40
[SPEAKER_02]: People that believed in Pete Crow and got in when he went down are absolutely eaten right now.
46:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, that guy's getting so much ice.
46:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So many ice right now.
46:50
[SPEAKER_02]: probably the best defender in baseball right now he's the best hitter in baseball he's one of the fastest people in baseball I mean he is all the tools he's ridiculous man ridiculous yeah and and you're seeing you're seeing him just skyrocket so I mean there's always those opportunities it's just hard because there's a lot of players that you can kind of roll the dice on and if you get it right though man you can do really really well so I think in the all season there's gonna be a lot of positioning and jocking for who's gonna have that 27 breakout
47:20
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, dude, that's like essentially.
47:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was a good episode today.
47:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So good stuff.
47:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, friends, we appreciate you guys watching Little Matt.
47:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Always thanks for the time, dude, in the insight.
47:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, let's reconvene next time and talk about this iconic list and in the start, like, ranking some players.
47:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that would be good.
47:37
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, see you, peace.