Latest / When Killers Get Caught with Brittany Ransom / Anthony Sowell and the Dark Path that lead to the Cleveland Strangler

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Anthony Sowell and the Dark Path that lead to the Cleveland Strangler · When Killers Get Caught with Brittany Ransom

• 0:37
  Everybody in serial killer country.
• 0:40
  It's your girl. Brittany Ransom and I'm here,
• 0:42
  will pray Joyner and welcome to see Today, we are celebrating
• 0:48
  our podcast a story one year ago.
• 0:50
  Today we sat down and record, our first podcast, a little
• 0:53
  scared, and I'm sure and now 250,000 wasn't later.
• 0:56
  We're stepping in and 2022, a little less scared, but still
• 1:00
  ready to give you the Deep Dives, that many of you came
• 1:02
  back for over and over last year.
• 1:04
  If you're new here with Coach get caught, is a three second
• 1:06
  podcast. Meant to give you a little
• 1:07
  light. Snack is bright and I discuss a
• 1:09
  True Crime Story that's going on in the world this week then will
• 1:12
  lead you down a path of Lesner known.
• 1:14
  Well, known serial killers and As their childhood wives
• 1:18
  methodology. And most importantly how they
• 1:21
  got caught and Brian finishes us off with an episode of hair.
• 1:26
  I messed that all up. This is new, it's a new thing,
• 1:32
  so I messed up. So I start from the beginning.
• 1:34
  No, no, no, it's okay. Keep going.
• 1:36
  Okay, so sad and Brian finish us off with a paranormal palate,
• 1:41
  cleanser But before we get to the episode, I should have let
• 1:45
  you know that when Killers get caught dot shop is officially
• 1:47
  live. And look at this merch for those
• 1:50
  of you watching on YouTube or Spotify, this is our podcast.
• 1:54
  Merge drop. We have my glorious weenie that
• 1:56
  I'm wearing now and this rather snazzy mug.
• 2:01
  As well as our first series of shirts that we are calling
• 2:06
  dicted a fun creation of some of our favorite Cryptids from last
• 2:09
  season stylized to be a little on the thick side.
• 2:13
  Our first victim was inspired by the statue of the Mothman and
• 2:16
  Point, Pleasant West Virginia and it is going right here on my
• 2:20
  pink Hood. And scale just a little booty
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  tooch. Just a little booty tooch.
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  You can't see the high heels, but they look very nice.
• 2:29
  If you want to give her early symbol of their Instagram is
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  bonesy underscore Doodles are other artists is SK Dot.
• 2:37
  SK m dot artists and they are both on Instagram scam.
• 2:42
  Artist did all of our our logo and the image for the mug, which
• 2:50
  I call are arrested banner. And yeah, anyone who buys
• 2:56
  anything in the next month is going to get put into a drawing
• 3:00
  to win some custom swag. That Brian.
• 3:02
  And I are going to sign you get a personalized thank-you from
• 3:04
  one of us thanking you for being honest.
• 3:07
  Journey with us. And yeah that's just it, it's
• 3:12
  very exciting and I can't wait for the other designs to come,
• 3:18
  right. Yeah.
• 3:18
  Brian's waiting on a couple of other cool things.
• 3:20
  Like a cropped. Hoodie long sleeve sweatshirt
• 3:24
  without a hood, right? Yeah.
• 3:26
  Yeah. It's going to be so far when
• 3:30
  I've worn some of this stuff on Livestream.
• 3:32
  People are just like we wait. So once I thought he could have
• 3:34
  dropped well, Where you getting that mug?
• 3:40
  Just wait. You'll know, you'll find out
• 3:42
  when you just found out today. Well, here's the thing.
• 3:46
  If you are listening to this podcast right now, everything is
• 3:50
  up on the website. So it's when Killers get caught.
• 3:53
  Shop. And this week in True Crime, So
• 4:01
  do you remember Brian a couple months ago?
• 4:05
  There was that guy who was way too and to q and on and he
• 4:10
  killed. He took his two-year-old and
• 4:12
  ten-month-old to Mexico and murdered them.
• 4:16
  Yes, he is. So what I came across a couple
• 4:21
  days ago was his name is Matthew Coleman and he has apparently
• 4:26
  devoid of a constant diet of Internet.
• 4:30
  He's kind of come to his senses. They said, he poured out his
• 4:34
  heart in a jailhouse letter to a friend.
• 4:38
  They said he's really despondent and hopeless, he's reflecting on
• 4:41
  his mistakes. He made in life and wondering if
• 4:43
  there's any chance for Redemption.
• 4:46
  I doubt from your wife, you just killed her two under
• 4:49
  two-year-old baby so yeah, that's not gonna happen anytime
• 4:53
  soon. Yeah, it was August 7th and the
• 4:56
  family were planning to go on a trip.
• 4:59
  So like everything was already packed up his wife.
• 5:05
  Abby realized that they were like all gone.
• 5:09
  And she couldn't contact him at, he wouldn't answer the phone,
• 5:12
  nothing he took their van and drove from Santa Barbara,
• 5:16
  California. All the way to Mexico and two
• 5:18
  days later he took the kids to a ranch.
• 5:22
  It wasn't his, it was just some random thought of land, and he
• 5:26
  killed him with a spear phishing God, but he returned to the
• 5:30
  hotel, a couple hours later and he got arrested when he was
• 5:33
  trying to cross the border back into the u.s. and for folks who
• 5:36
  don't know, like people who get way too, Deep into Q&A on start
• 5:40
  thinking about like how everybody's made out of lizards.
• 5:44
  They've merged q and on with Illuminati conspiracies and
• 5:48
  honestly Illuminati has just become like a mega conspiracy.
• 5:51
  We've talked about it on the patreon.
• 5:54
  Yes, yes. Yeah.
• 5:57
  Like when I heard about the speargun, it was like that's a
• 6:01
  little bit of Overkill, don't you think my guy definitely and
• 6:06
  I mean he believed they were going to grow up to become Um
• 6:10
  not like yeah you know you're a monster like real most literal
• 6:15
  monsters. Yeah he thought they were going
• 6:17
  to be literally wizard monsters. Yeah.
• 6:21
  I feel super bad for the guy because like that's the thing is
• 6:25
  like when Trump was agonies people on especially like Trump
• 6:31
  was telling people to do things and get themselves arrested in
• 6:34
  trouble. None of those people that he
• 6:37
  edged on to hurt other people. He stopped paying for any of
• 6:40
  those people to Legal funds. He's on helping me those people
• 6:44
  out. So no words in it.
• 6:47
  That It took being in prison for four months to kind of deprogram
• 6:55
  himself when it comes to conspiracy theories and that's
• 7:00
  why thing anybody listen who likes them?
• 7:04
  It's fun to like talk about certain conspiracy theories, but
• 7:07
  when you cross that threshold of thinking that like you need to
• 7:10
  kill people. You got to step back.
• 7:14
  Yeah, yeah. You gotta think about what
• 7:17
  you're doing, buddy. But that was my True Crime Story
• 7:21
  this week. What you got?
• 7:24
  Okay. So this happened.
• 7:28
  It's a couple days ago. So, right actually take after
• 7:31
  Christmas so Minnesota, man. He confesses to killing his dad
• 7:42
  and his sister. He confesses to his brother,
• 7:47
  that he's killed them and the way they found a body, he's,
• 7:56
  they were just like sitting upright in their chairs.
• 8:01
  So I guess I guess right after Christmas or whatever they were
• 8:05
  doing, you know, you had these two over and you got two dead.
• 8:13
  Pieces with Dash? Yeah, yeah they're just sitting
• 8:18
  here. So the table set, the creep
• 8:24
  Factor. It doesn't say so The person who
• 8:31
  did it. His name is Ivan.
• 8:36
  Maybe I've been marked room Delilah and it's a double a dog.
• 8:47
  So I don't know if they'll be Russian, it's because he's like,
• 8:53
  he's a, he's a POC. So he's black guy.
• 8:56
  So maybe it's a different country.
• 8:59
  Yeah. His African name or something
• 9:01
  like that, you know, this is you tell anybody why he just ran him
• 9:06
  over these people know, okay? So this is a story to how it
• 9:09
  went well according to his brother who he told so he said
• 9:14
  like he his brother, his brother was acting weird and then he
• 9:18
  ultimately like he broke down and told him that.
• 9:22
  Yeah, I shot I shot dad in, you know, sister Like a couple of
• 9:28
  few days ago actually, so oh. So yeah, so the snow was
• 9:35
  probably not that nice just sitting there at the dinner
• 9:40
  table and I don't know, you know if it was dinner table just says
• 9:44
  they were sitting up sitting up in our chairs.
• 9:49
  Yeah. So yeah, you know, his brother
• 9:53
  went to, you know, investigator. He got the complete, the police
• 9:57
  to come over and, you know, the founder on locked in the, then
• 10:02
  they found. The dad in the sister, just
• 10:04
  there sitting upright in her chairs and apparent gonna strip
• 10:07
  root booster heads and like he's been arrested, of course, and
• 10:16
  he's charged with. I think we're seeing that.
• 10:21
  It's Second degree murder. Yeah, so yeah, I'm not sure it
• 10:31
  was like a holiday gathering that went wrong.
• 10:34
  It doesn't really like well. I wonder what happened.
• 10:37
  Great. You know what?
• 10:45
  It may be because Either he was, he was living with his dad and
• 10:53
  his sister, and he was trying to evict them and something went
• 10:59
  sour or he like, I'm in an addiction an addiction from
• 11:08
  life. But yeah I think he's he's he's
• 11:13
  gone to court his first Court appearances.
• 11:17
  January 12th. So you see yeah yeah yeah
• 11:22
  sometime soon. And yeah, that's about it.
• 11:26
  Oh, I got for this week. All right.
• 11:41
  Well, he's heading to my killer deep dive.
• 11:46
  And last year, this serial killer was requested.
• 11:49
  Multiple times that didn't have the time to cover them, but I
• 11:52
  aim to please and I actually had a secret Santa from Reddit, who
• 11:57
  got me booked and I assumed, you know what, that must be my sign
• 12:01
  from the Aether that it's time to cover Anthony style, one of
• 12:06
  Ohio's, most prolific serial killers and also Known as the
• 12:10
  Cleveland Strangler the main source of this week's podcast
• 12:15
  was nobody Swimming by Steve Miller and I think that title
• 12:19
  kind of gives you an idea why he was able to kill 11, women from
• 12:23
  2007 to 2009 and not even be a suspect despite the fact that he
• 12:28
  had a criminal record he also was known at like the local
• 12:31
  hospital for being a rapist. It was terrible time.
• 12:34
  This is going to be a terrible time.
• 12:35
  It's it was hard for me to write this one this week.
• 12:38
  It was bad from start to finish. Well, I guess one of those crazy
• 12:43
  things and there was a stench of death That started in like 2006
• 12:50
  and went on until 2009 that they blamed on a local sausage
• 12:55
  manufacturer, that was around the corner.
• 13:00
  Not they didn't check any houses.
• 13:01
  Nothing. Oh my God.
• 13:04
  Okay, okay, we'll wait. So you've been in Lancaster,
• 13:09
  right? So on the stretcher I'm not even
• 13:12
  sure if it's like if the factory still there, but you've been
• 13:15
  passed the hot dog Factory, right?
• 13:17
  I don't know. I mean I've been by a chicken
• 13:20
  factory and that's the friggin worst.
• 13:23
  I forget what street it's on. But there's a hot dog Factory in
• 13:28
  like in the middle of like the city we're not in Middle City
• 13:31
  but like terms outskirts of the city and like you drive past it
• 13:34
  just smells just like hot dogs and I mean I could yeah I can't
• 13:38
  I know chicken factory smell really bad because of how they
• 13:41
  keep the chickens. Like happen is all that poop and
• 13:43
  stuff but I don't think sausage factories are the same way and
• 13:47
  this is like a small one like in a community like these are
• 13:49
  houses and then there's this little tiny building.
• 13:51
  It's called Ray sausages. They're still around but their
• 13:53
  struggle, it partially because of what happened to you, right?
• 13:59
  But like every week I can only start at the beginning.
• 14:03
  Anthony cell was born August 19th 1959 to a single mother and
• 14:07
  Aunt Connie Garrison. He's one of seven children and
• 14:10
  neither he nor any of his siblings ever knew their
• 14:12
  parents, then their fathers. His siblings have spoken with
• 14:17
  the media or testifies of try out.
• 14:19
  Our trusty Garrison Owen Davis, Thomas L Allen Sal, a Tricia
• 14:25
  Davis Thatcher. His mom, Claudia struggled, as
• 14:29
  any parent would with so many children.
• 14:33
  Trying to provide for them with little resources, trying to get
• 14:36
  help from A system that makes it hard for you to actually do
• 14:39
  better while you're on it. And on top of that, Claudia was
• 14:42
  also supporting her mother Irene Justice.
• 14:45
  The kids never really had a solid place to live or anything
• 14:48
  of their own before. He was like five or six years
• 14:51
  old. He was a lot like the definition
• 14:54
  of a latchkey kid by kindergarten and for people who
• 14:58
  don't know what that means because it's not really a term
• 15:00
  to use anymore. So, latchkey kids were children.
• 15:03
  And who walk to school by themselves, they had a key on
• 15:07
  like a string or a lanyard around their neck and they
• 15:10
  walked home where they would also be alone for hours because
• 15:14
  their parents were working all the time.
• 15:19
  Now Anthony's older sister Patricia had a very serious case
• 15:23
  of asthma as a child and by the time she was 18 and Anthony was
• 15:27
  only like six or seven. She had five kids of her own so
• 15:31
  she didn't really have the time to help her mother.
• 15:33
  With Anthony or any of the other kids. and, At the point where
• 15:42
  Anthony's like seven years old, Claudia and Irene, you know Mom
• 15:46
  and Grandma have a home at six kids and now adult Patricia has
• 15:51
  another house with her own seven kids.
• 15:56
  So I said by 18, she had five, then she had two more.
• 16:00
  And so what would essentially happen is that like whoever was
• 16:03
  working would be watching the kids 13 of them.
• 16:08
  And by say watching, I mean, not watching because it's nearly
• 16:11
  impossible. Like I worked as a teacher for
• 16:13
  years and in the state of Pennsylvania, you are not even
• 16:16
  legally allowed to watch more than 12 children under the age
• 16:21
  of, I believe eight. So this is that, and this will
• 16:28
  be hard enough in the 60s and 70s, but the South kids also
• 16:31
  suffered from birth defects mental illness and some of the
• 16:34
  kids said, epilepsy all up and down the barbed wire and you It
• 16:37
  hard for, you know, spending money on doctor's appointment,
• 16:40
  that's taken more money out of the potential.
• 16:45
  And there was 0, both physical and sexual abuse.
• 16:50
  So in 1966, Anthony is hanging out at his older sisters house.
• 16:56
  He Witnesses his older nephew, take his younger niece into the
• 17:00
  closet and abuser as the time he didn't understand it, but he's
• 17:05
  he began to look at that as if it was normal.
• 17:09
  Later in life that he was psychologically evaluated.
• 17:11
  He told doctors that he was being molested as well.
• 17:14
  During this time, he told the doctors that it only ended when
• 17:18
  he did his older, his older Matthew you go.
• 17:25
  So remember this is his yesterday.
• 17:28
  Yeah fine. Yeah, that's what happens.
• 17:31
  When you have like, an older sibling having babies the same
• 17:33
  time. Mom is hmm.
• 17:38
  But he said, he couldn't exactly remember what stopped?
• 17:42
  But it's now August of 1969. Years later, Patricia dies of
• 17:48
  chronic bronchitis due to her asthma.
• 17:51
  She's only 27 years old, seven kids, and all of her kids were
• 17:56
  moved to the house on East Boulevard with Mom and Grandma.
• 18:02
  So now there's 13 kids at this house.
• 18:05
  Damn everybody, all the kids sleep into three to a room some
• 18:10
  of the children as well. Patricia's children didn't even
• 18:13
  know that Claudia was their grandmother.
• 18:16
  I think she was hurt there, Mom? Yeah, I think so.
• 18:19
  Hmm, it was just so chaotic and also Claudia was really mad at
• 18:25
  Patricia about the fact that she had so many children kind of
• 18:28
  like, you know, I'm parents like I don't want you to go down the
• 18:30
  same path that I went down and so she didn't like her
• 18:34
  grandchildren and the kids all new.
• 18:38
  Like, if she wanted to talk to you or talk to them, she be
• 18:40
  like, go get that black. So, and so They apparently said
• 18:45
  she was only nice to one of the nieces who was like skin.
• 18:49
  So a little bit of inter-family color isn't happening there,
• 18:52
  right? Yeah.
• 18:57
  That's all that house on East Boulevard is where physical
• 19:00
  abuse started. Claudia was so stressed with all
• 19:03
  the children like her and Irene, we're just working 24/7.
• 19:07
  Like, only one of them was ever at the house.
• 19:09
  That time, I know, Claudia had two jobs, everyone's working
• 19:11
  another job. So, what the stress levels that
• 19:15
  high, she started hitting kids And it became like her fuse was
• 19:19
  super short. Your chores weren't done
• 19:21
  correctly, you get caved, you know, switch extension cord.
• 19:27
  Unfortunately this is the old way that holder black folks used
• 19:33
  to deal with kids. And, you know, we look back at
• 19:36
  it now and it's awful and, you know, I look at my friends and
• 19:40
  I'm like so proud that all the people that I know who have
• 19:43
  kids, don't treat their kids like this.
• 19:46
  But I feel bad because we were treated this way and our parents
• 19:50
  were treated this way. That's yeah, that's the breaking
• 19:54
  of like it talk. I talked to tear about it like a
• 19:56
  lot like breaking that like generational curse and stuff
• 19:59
  like we got to raise our kids, a little softer and people like
• 20:03
  the world's not going to treat them that I'm like, yes, the
• 20:06
  world is not going to treat themselves.
• 20:08
  So at least they can have a safe place in their home.
• 20:10
  Exactly, exactly. But a 1970, the entire family
• 20:16
  moves to a house on page. Avenue.
• 20:18
  And it was large enough that almost all of the kids had space
• 20:21
  to living by themselves. A couple of the rooms they like
• 20:23
  partitioned off to make like two bedrooms.
• 20:26
  They had a big yard space to play in when both Irene and
• 20:30
  Claudia were at work. They would just play in the yard
• 20:33
  climate cherry tree. This was kind of the closest to
• 20:36
  a time of happiness in their childhood because there was
• 20:39
  never money for birthdays. No, sleepovers no candy or any
• 20:44
  food, that wasn't homemade and the beatings didn't stop.
• 20:47
  And when Anthony was spoke interviewed post being found for
• 20:54
  his crimes, he said that his child home was like a war
• 20:59
  constant yelling and screaming the being for brutal.
• 21:03
  Claudia would have the children strip and then she would tie
• 21:06
  them to the banister at the foot of the stairs, and beat them
• 21:09
  with an extension cord Earth, which and it happened pretty
• 21:13
  much every single day and sometimes in the middle of the
• 21:16
  night. Despite the fact that Happy's
• 21:19
  kids are school age, she was finds like an unwashed dish at 2
• 21:23
  a.m. and she wake everybody up for this, like ritualistic
• 21:26
  public lashing. That reminds me of slavery.
• 21:32
  Mmm-hmm. Yeah other times she just has to
• 21:37
  get mad and she walked into a kid's room and just start
• 21:40
  beating them while they were sleeping and the kid didn't even
• 21:42
  have any idea of what they did wrong. so, so remember the uncle
• 21:52
  well, So, Anthony had an uncle known as Junior.
• 21:59
  And this point. Now a lot of the older boys and
• 22:02
  some of the older girls are moving into puberty, which means
• 22:06
  that the, the boys are focusing on the girls and Anthony found
• 22:13
  out that his mom had a secret stash chips and sodas and candy
• 22:17
  and he would steal it, and he would blame it on his cousin
• 22:22
  Leona. So he could see her getting
• 22:27
  dressed. And he what it says he started
• 22:37
  sexually assaulting her when he was 13 and she was 12.
• 22:42
  And she said that before that they were friendly, but his
• 22:45
  whole demeanor changed after half.
• 22:48
  And we got really violent with her.
• 22:49
  Whenever she tried to avoid, like, going up to his bedroom,
• 22:52
  punch her in the face, gave her a black eye and the honest of
• 22:56
  this went on for years. Uncle Junior.
• 22:58
  Uncle Junior are sold his own sister Ramona and so did
• 23:01
  Anthony's brother Owen? Jr's younger sister.
• 23:05
  Renee was also being assaulted and this was happening every day
• 23:09
  in her home. And the girls were still being
• 23:12
  beaten by Claudia. So they had absolutely no idea
• 23:15
  who they could turn to all the girls began running away from
• 23:18
  home in their own teams. and even what's Claudia found out,
• 23:25
  or like learned with the girls were saying, she didn't believe
• 23:28
  them, which is also Sterile, like it's also an aspect of the
• 23:34
  black community that, you know, was very rampant during this
• 23:36
  time, too. She had nobody to turn to God.
• 23:43
  Not even safe in your own house is just terrible.
• 23:46
  Ramona, got caught running away. Should I put in a facility for
• 23:49
  troubled kids? Leona actually followed her to
• 23:52
  the facility and hid there for two months before they found her
• 23:55
  and they took her back home, the girls are just repeatedly picked
• 23:59
  up, put in the center return back to the hell.
• 24:01
  That was home a system failing them over over and over again.
• 24:07
  You'd like why would you do that?
• 24:08
  Why would you put them back like you're obviously running away
• 24:11
  from home for a reason? Like, I don't know if we can say
• 24:15
  about previously, protect the child, protective systems and
• 24:18
  staff but he obviously wasn't doing very well.
• 24:23
  Well, you gonna realize that the way out was trying to or so.
• 24:28
  So she went upstairs to her mother's bedroom, lock the door
• 24:31
  and set the bedroom on fire. After that, they put her in a
• 24:36
  psychiatric hospital and someone at the hospital believed her.
• 24:41
  She did continue to attempt suicide, and she ended up
• 24:44
  staying in that hospital. She's old enough to be released,
• 24:48
  she's since healed, and she's actually healed enough to talk
• 24:52
  about this. But I mean it's so
• 24:54
  heartbreaking. That that's the only way she was
• 24:56
  able to get home, right? Yeah.
• 25:00
  Now, by 1970, Anthony's. Just answering to your high
• 25:05
  outside. He's a shy, skinny kid, it gets
• 25:07
  pretty bad grades. You just wasn't good at school.
• 25:11
  He went at most days, you was just not exceptional and he
• 25:15
  lived in a home where nobody was paying attention.
• 25:18
  So he was getting apps that, you know, your basic English and
• 25:20
  math and like beans and like physical education, he would
• 25:24
  join like swim club or golf club didn't do very well.
• 25:29
  He did get, well, you can go Jess, which he played with his
• 25:32
  science teacher and that get continuous high school, but he
• 25:36
  could see you to try, and he was just never good at anything.
• 25:39
  Basketball football baseball. All.
• 25:42
  And then no one really understood.
• 25:44
  Why? But when we 17, he just quit.
• 25:51
  Yep, he made his first girlfriend Twila, Austin
• 25:53
  shortly. After drop it out, he was 13
• 25:55
  years old and a freshman. She lived in an area called the
• 25:58
  hill was considered to be upscale the time and they were
• 26:01
  just walking down the street from high school.
• 26:03
  Anthony was finishing his paperwork that said, he failed
• 26:06
  his junior year and he said, hi Twila and they just started
• 26:09
  hanging out. She actually liked the things
• 26:12
  and he was good at boxing. He was, she did it look like
• 26:15
  athletic police athletically. He's good chess.
• 26:19
  They'd hang out in Claudia's room when she wasn't home.
• 26:21
  They went to movies and she wasn't sure how but Anthony
• 26:25
  always had money for days. I was typical you know young
• 26:32
  relationship. Now this is 1977 anything's, a
• 26:38
  high school. Dropout Cleveland is a city on
• 26:40
  the decline. People are moving from the city
• 26:43
  in droves. The town's falling apart Twila,
• 26:48
  realized how he had all that money.
• 26:49
  Which was that Anthony was a thief.
• 26:51
  He sold stolen goods on the street.
• 26:54
  He had a list of misdemeanors by the time he was 18 from being
• 26:58
  caught, he picked up a drinking habit, got arrested multiple
• 27:01
  times for drunk and disorderly conduct.
• 27:04
  He also stole from people's houses sold that too.
• 27:06
  Sometimes assaulting the homeowner got arrested for that
• 27:09
  too and he managed to avoid jail.
• 27:11
  Time for more of the more intense crimes and when he
• 27:15
  turned 18 he decided it was time to leave his mom's house.
• 27:19
  You'll find this to be a verb recurring fee when it comes to
• 27:23
  serial killers. What do you think he did?
• 27:25
  Next? He left his mom's house, did he
• 27:32
  go in joining the Army? You bet your bottom dollar?
• 27:38
  You join the Army actually, he was intending on going to the
• 27:43
  Army and then he heard that the Marines were harder.
• 27:46
  So he decided to be a memory. Okay, yep.
• 27:50
  What's basic training? January, 24th 1978 at Parris
• 27:53
  Island, South Carolina and a month after his basic training
• 27:56
  started while I found out she's pregnant.
• 27:59
  They were both kind of happy about it and Julius L was born,
• 28:03
  August 1974 Anthony did very well in basic training.
• 28:08
  He was first in his class of 40, top marks and shooting great.
• 28:12
  A hand-to-hand combat became an electrician at Camp Lejeune and
• 28:16
  may of 1978 after getting his GED and studying electrical
• 28:20
  wiring, they moved him to Cherry Point North Carolina in 1979 and
• 28:24
  then in March 1980, who works for the 2nd Marine Our tract
• 28:28
  today, which is an aviation unit that supports the Marines during
• 28:31
  wartime. And I'm pretty solid that my dad
• 28:34
  did that during Vietnam, he fixed planes on base and
• 28:39
  Vietnam. I'm going to ask him about.
• 28:40
  That was pretty cool. He's next move was to Camp
• 28:45
  Smedley Butler in Okinawa Japan. And while it's can he met Kim
• 28:50
  lost? Say she's a fellow officer and
• 28:54
  Anthony considers this to be the best relationship he's ever
• 28:57
  been. Now Anthony was emotionally.
• 29:01
  Stunted from his traumatic childhood to the point where
• 29:04
  like an active affection was the kind of thing that would bring
• 29:07
  out like, violence in him and can't help him to accept love
• 29:12
  and being treated. Well, They got married, 91 in a
• 29:18
  civil ceremony, back in the u.s. at the Craven County Courthouse
• 29:21
  in New Bern North Carolina. They moved to a small trailer
• 29:25
  park off base and that was where Anthony sustained.
• 29:29
  A pretty life-changing injury. It's not what you think though.
• 29:36
  He's coming back home from a going away party for a fellow
• 29:38
  Marine. What was happening?
• 29:40
  Is that his sister Tressa and his daughter Julia had come down
• 29:45
  and They just they wanted to still give their respects o chem
• 29:49
  stayed with the sister and daughter and he just went to go
• 29:53
  say goodbye to his fellow Marine as he was driving back from that
• 29:56
  little bone away party. The car overheated and he lifted
• 30:00
  up the hood and he was kind of poking around and a hose blew
• 30:03
  off hitting him in the face so fast and he couldn't close his
• 30:07
  eyes, the injury caused to Second and third-degree Burns
• 30:13
  and split his eyes. And I got to tell you, I wanted
• 30:16
  to Google that but I don't want to know what that means.
• 30:20
  I have to Google it but continue flying for three months and they
• 30:25
  weren't sure using there and gain his say when the injury
• 30:28
  happened his daughter, they like he just said them away.
• 30:33
  He's didn't one of them dealing with him while he was injured
• 30:36
  cam. Tried her best to help him, but
• 30:38
  he started picking up drinking a lot.
• 30:40
  She was actually worried. He's going to get discharged
• 30:41
  from the Marines, Marines, for alcoholism.
• 30:46
  So 1984 Anthony gets sent back to Camp Butler in Okinawa.
• 30:53
  Kevin Anthony only really got to live like a married.
• 30:56
  Couple for about two years and then they were sent separate
• 31:01
  places. And then in January of 1985 she
• 31:05
  filed for divorce. The day she left the mine.
• 31:09
  Just the physical distance being listed for the divorce and Kim
• 31:15
  loss and actually died in California in 1988 and then Dust
• 31:18
  real accident. But she didn't really have any
• 31:21
  further contact with Anthony after the divorce.
• 31:26
  Now after their divorce, he also got discharged.
• 31:31
  He was finishing up his last bit of time and Camp Pendleton
• 31:33
  California. Like his son, the military was
• 31:36
  great, though. He got Awards all during the
• 31:38
  seven years, he's there Good Conduct medals with one star, a
• 31:42
  meritorious Master ticket, a sea service deployment ribbon, a
• 31:47
  certificate of commendation and two letters of appreciation.
• 31:50
  He was promoted through his time in the military, he never got
• 31:53
  demoted, This local probably the highlight of his life.
• 31:58
  So unlike some serial killers, you actually go to like Army and
• 32:03
  Navy and stuff like that Marines.
• 32:05
  He was actually really good at it.
• 32:06
  And he enjoyed his times of the year.
• 32:09
  I imagine, like for some of the people we talked about last
• 32:12
  year, it was the first place that Anthony would have
• 32:16
  experienced order. Wyatt.
• 32:23
  You know, like when it's lights out in the barracks, it's lights
• 32:28
  out in the barracks, you know, there's those rules and there's,
• 32:31
  you know, and you only get punished when you actually Break
• 32:34
  The Rules. Not, you know, whenever your
• 32:36
  drill sergeant decides, it is one beat your face in really,
• 32:39
  that's a completely different. So in some ways, it's positive
• 32:43
  for some people, but he comes back to Cleveland and like this
• 32:50
  back to normal. Like many low-income areas in
• 32:56
  the u.s. in the 80s. Cleveland was ravaged by crack
• 33:00
  cocaine and for people who don't know a lot about drugs cocaine
• 33:05
  mumbling your smoke crack, you heat up and then inject directly
• 33:09
  into the bloodstream especially harmful because the speed in
• 33:14
  which it gets to your brain. People who start cocaine get
• 33:18
  high, but it can take some time to do a job and essentially
• 33:21
  crackheads so fast that people are addicted to it.
• 33:23
  Just keep trying to get that same Rush that they got the
• 33:27
  first time they injected themselves.
• 33:31
  Now, before going into the Marines, Anthony been smoking
• 33:33
  weed drinking as a total shock to him, go to come back and see
• 33:37
  like the same street. So he used to walk when he was a
• 33:40
  kid that we're safe now, people just sitting out in the open you
• 33:45
  know, smoking crack can also spoken to sorry.
• 33:48
  Yeah, I forgot about that if you'd like I can heat it in the
• 33:52
  little spoon and then inject. It also sometimes smoke it but
• 33:57
  it's not good. It's what I'm going to say I
• 34:00
  feel like it's on par with like how heroin has been harming
• 34:06
  people and like the 2002. Yeah, yeah.
• 34:12
  Sure difference is that crack is cheap.
• 34:15
  Because it gets cut down from the pure cocaine and so I'll let
• 34:19
  you can afford a lot of it. Whereas heroin cost a lot of
• 34:24
  money. So it's a different
• 34:26
  socio-economic bracket. You would have been in if you
• 34:30
  were doing heroin versus practical.
• 34:37
  We also learned during this time that crack was so addictive.
• 34:41
  That women would do anything who were strung out to get ahead.
• 34:45
  I was something he would later take advantage of but in the
• 34:49
  moment he was a jobless man with a seven-year-old kid.
• 34:52
  Be left with her mom and a family that was still chaotic
• 34:55
  and terrified he drank every day.
• 34:58
  He moved back in with his mom on Page Avenue, where she stayed in
• 35:02
  the attic and he met other women, but none of those
• 35:04
  relationships were substantial or anyway.
• 35:07
  But now he liked it so he got angry.
• 35:13
  Now his sister Tressa, he's a little younger than him said
• 35:15
  that he came back from the Marines more serious and at the
• 35:18
  military made him, but I feel like we can kind of ascertain
• 35:23
  that Anthony had a bad streak before he went to the Marines.
• 35:27
  Yes, definitely. Well, you know I said he went
• 35:29
  moved to the attic, right? Twila and Julie were living in
• 35:33
  the Attic. And he kicked them out.
• 35:38
  Oh, he's like you can't stay in the room with me.
• 35:42
  This is our room. We can't seem to.
• 35:44
  Let me just like drink and be sad.
• 35:51
  He actually started snorting cocaine at this time.
• 35:53
  He got arrested for domestic violence.
• 35:55
  And 1988 spent eight days in prison.
• 35:58
  That wasn't his only violent running.
• 36:00
  One time, his sister Tressa was in an argument with another girl
• 36:03
  in the neighborhood and I do trust is like in her teens and
• 36:06
  29, year-old Anthony tells his other girl, like leave my sister
• 36:09
  alone and she kept talking smack and he's straight-up punch and
• 36:13
  teenager girl, a teenage girl in the face.
• 36:15
  Just straight knocked her out. Ridiculous.
• 36:21
  By that point, he was already on track.
• 36:26
  And he approved more criminal offenses, disorderly conduct
• 36:30
  possession, public intoxication. Now things get worse for him in
• 36:35
  1989. When he refused to let a woman
• 36:37
  who's dating the house. She was three months pregnant
• 36:41
  and her name was Mel. That sock wall.
• 36:43
  He bound her hands and feet with a tie and belt and gagged her.
• 36:47
  She would later tell the police that she thought she was going
• 36:49
  to die because she was losing sensation.
• 36:50
  And while her extremities for this Anthony was charged with
• 36:54
  kidnapping, rape and attempted grade.
• 36:56
  He pled guilty to attempted rapist is the lesser sentence
• 37:00
  and was given 15 years in prison.
• 37:06
  Now, you think that's a great. Great.
• 37:08
  I always hear like great was too terrible in prison, apparently,
• 37:12
  not Anthony. He got along with the other
• 37:14
  inmates. He they kept like, getting him
• 37:17
  parole hearings and he didn't really understand what they
• 37:20
  wanted him to do. The same line kept getting
• 37:23
  written in his parole reports lack of significant program.
• 37:28
  And what that means is that he doesn't understand that he needs
• 37:30
  to do certain things within the prison program to Capital and
• 37:34
  they would have him like Fill out.
• 37:36
  These questionnaires to assess his feelings about his Prime and
• 37:40
  is not allowed in general, and some of them are going to reach
• 37:42
  you that are specifically poignant here.
• 37:45
  So it was he like, I feel, I think, you know, those kinds of
• 37:48
  questions and they haven't filled in says, I feel nothing
• 37:51
  at this time of my life. I suffer no ill feelings.
• 37:55
  I failed to get myself out of trouble and the worst one.
• 37:59
  Most women just tell lies. so it seems in his head, he had blamed
• 38:06
  malbet for the fact that he's in prison, For the fact that you
• 38:12
  assaulted me and kidnap, you didn't let me leave the house,
• 38:16
  literally kidnap the pregnant lady and it's not her fault that
• 38:19
  you did that, but whatever not apparently.
• 38:22
  No, it's all her fault. He had one weird perk, this was
• 38:28
  that he was very serious about how people citizens.
• 38:31
  So apparently, some people say could name like Soul, it's a so
• 38:35
  wel L and he portrayed, he preferred selling for selling,
• 38:41
  So that's why I've just been saying it that way, I don't know
• 38:44
  the right way. Mostly double listening for a
• 38:47
  long time. I destroy names, so it's owl.
• 38:52
  It's owl. So it sounds, he never got
• 38:56
  parole. You never really got the point
• 39:00
  and so Monday. June 20th, 2005, he gets
• 39:03
  released from the Lorraine correctional institute in
• 39:06
  Grafton Ohio. He is 46 years old and his
• 39:09
  sister Tressa went to pick him up. up with all of her children
• 39:12
  because she had like seven kids by now, to the mini mansion
• 39:17
  house, he grew up in with his family gone repossessed because
• 39:21
  nobody can pay the mortgage Everything moved in with his
• 39:25
  sister and a few other family members and the area called
• 39:28
  Slavic Village was nine kids, three adults.
• 39:34
  He tried to make himself useful, like, cooking for people, and
• 39:38
  you play, like, Madden with all the little boy kids.
• 39:42
  It was nice, but he moved out a couple months later into his
• 39:45
  stepmothers house. Sir, Colonel Henderson cell,
• 39:49
  Segura was his biological father's third wife, Thomas L
• 39:53
  senior. Had died while he was in prison.
• 39:57
  He actually was 80 years old. He fell down the steps and 2003,
• 40:01
  but his death certificate also said that he had prostate cancer
• 40:05
  heart disease in a seizure disorder.
• 40:07
  So we're not claiming that they are not claiming the ball.
• 40:09
  Is what killed them? It's the fact that he had three
• 40:12
  major illnesses simultaneously at 18 years.
• 40:14
  I mean, Thomas Thomas. L senior never really had
• 40:23
  anything to do with Claudia but apparently he had reached out.
• 40:26
  Out to Anthony at some point and they talk to each other while he
• 40:30
  was in prison. So Anthony, the other places
• 40:32
  said he didn't realize that his dad died but he actually in that
• 40:37
  a Right up the questionnaire. He wrote very kindly about his
• 40:43
  father which I thought was very surprising considering that he
• 40:46
  didn't have any contact with his dad until he was in his 40s.
• 40:49
  All right? Now that's a Grandma's house.
• 40:56
  He was depressed because he got some letters that said that he
• 40:59
  had a registered sex offender. Which made him one of twelve,
• 41:05
  offenders in a 5-mile radius. And honestly, he was the boat,
• 41:08
  pretty. Humiliated by it.
• 41:10
  He thought it was gonna get in the way of him getting a good
• 41:12
  job and he was filing all these job applications and nobody was
• 41:16
  responding and then get a job as a prep cook at Jacobs Field.
• 41:22
  Which is where the Cleveland Indians played.
• 41:24
  Is a really good job actually. And so, in the middle of the the
• 41:28
  summer season, he gets a letter August 2005 saying that he needs
• 41:32
  to go through a sexual predator evaluation as part of being
• 41:36
  monitored for being a sex offender, which I didn't realize
• 41:39
  they do in Ohio. And I kind of think it's a great
• 41:41
  idea that everywhere, actually, not that.
• 41:44
  I didn't realize you had to check in every couple years.
• 41:47
  Oh yeah. Oh yes, you Brittany.
• 41:50
  Yo, let me tell you, I've heard the I just heard stories.
• 41:57
  Of like you know section sex offenders like not checking in
• 42:01
  for a while and like the states. They don't they don't check up
• 42:05
  on them. Yeah, that's what I heard too.
• 42:07
  I was like, people just do what they want.
• 42:09
  Yeah, they don't like they then they just go and live like
• 42:14
  normal lives when, you know, the reason why you're like register
• 42:18
  as a sex offender it, so you can't live a normal, damn life.
• 42:21
  It's like so people know what you've done and it's a away from
• 42:25
  you. Well, this analysis goes the
• 42:30
  word. It goes as wrong as it could
• 42:31
  possibly be. Go, he shows up for this
• 42:34
  meaning, September 1st 2005. They immediately tell him this
• 42:38
  records going to be part of a public evaluation.
• 42:40
  It'll be public. Like, if anybody looks you up,
• 42:42
  they will see this interview. So, of course, as they ask you
• 42:49
  to he, as I asked him questions, he decides.
• 42:51
  I'm not going to be honest about anything.
• 42:56
  Okay. He told them he grew up in a
• 42:58
  crowd of single-parent. Home said he had a lot of
• 43:01
  friends but then he was bullied and teased.
• 43:03
  He of course left out that he was a sexually violent child and
• 43:07
  that he and his nephews watched and also raped their siblings
• 43:11
  and cousins. He told the therapist he was
• 43:13
  never exposed to violence in his home or school with that.
• 43:17
  He just had a bad time. Now, it was true that he had
• 43:20
  never been suspended in school and he never been fired from any
• 43:23
  job. He told the therapist that he
• 43:26
  had admitted to the charge because he didn't think he had a
• 43:29
  good defense, you didn't want a longer sentence, and when they
• 43:33
  interviewed his public defender, James McDonald, the man was
• 43:37
  quoted. As saying all I can tell you is,
• 43:40
  I remember nothing about represent, so he Told the
• 43:48
  therapist that you've been alcohol before jail for that, he
• 43:51
  hadn't had a drink in 50 years when they discussed Stacks, he
• 43:55
  just straight up lot saying, Twila was his first.
• 43:59
  He did tell the people that he engaged in prostitution while
• 44:03
  abroad in the Marines and he did look at porn to the analysts.
• 44:08
  Looked over this interview, he seemed like a regular dude who
• 44:11
  just got a bad break on a rape case.
• 44:14
  And since the u.s. does have an issue with coercing, innocent
• 44:18
  people to admit to crimes, they didn't do the analyst wrote and
• 44:22
  is my opinion that would reasonable professional
• 44:25
  professional certainty, that mr. Self is not currently present.
• 44:29
  The following risk factors most significantly correlated sexual
• 44:34
  offense recidivism. Now, here's a fun fact for you,
• 44:40
  that I learned because I made a video Tick-Tock and I was very
• 44:43
  angry, but the rate at which sexual offenders reoffend is
• 44:49
  roughly 22%. So, about one in 500, people who
• 44:57
  have committed violent offenses about 36% and here's the worst
• 45:02
  one. People who go to jail for any
• 45:04
  reason have a 40 6.45. Point, six percent, likelihood
• 45:10
  of reoffending and suffering. That's you have horrible
• 45:15
  recidivism rates in this country.
• 45:17
  Our prison system. Does nothing to actually help
• 45:19
  people and prepare them for life out of prison.
• 45:22
  This is so true that that just reminds me of a joke.
• 45:26
  Like it's not, it's a joke but it's not a joke, which is joke.
• 45:30
  It's like, you know, someone going to prison and then they
• 45:33
  went right back to prison like a few months later for doing the
• 45:36
  exact goddamn thing. Yeah, that's one of the things
• 45:39
  from the TV show Orange is the New Black that they really got,
• 45:42
  right? When Casey got out of prison and
• 45:44
  she was back like, two months later and she remember in the
• 45:47
  show, she was just like, you know, I didn't have anywhere to
• 45:49
  stay, like I was sleeping on the floor with like 10 other people
• 45:53
  like it's just snow. Honestly, honestly Anthony had
• 45:58
  more than most and a lot of people who get jail, like he had
• 46:03
  a lot more help and people. Yeah, he had a lot more help.
• 46:06
  Yeah. Well, his job, with the
• 46:08
  Cleveland Indians ends, October 2nd, 2005.
• 46:11
  He gets another job at a packing plant.
• 46:13
  His next big job is doing molding injection at a custom.
• 46:18
  River. I think I made a mistake in my
• 46:22
  own notes. Buddies is like molding
• 46:25
  injections, at a custom shop, in March of 2006.
• 46:29
  The union job, we make good money and especially that was
• 46:33
  like right before the recession hit leave as Around town.
• 46:37
  He was known as a friendly guy. You go drinking with you but
• 46:39
  nobody ever got close to. He would entertain people at the
• 46:42
  bar with Chad about being a marine.
• 46:44
  His time in prison food storage travel in the world.
• 46:48
  He did make one friend, the owner of a convenience store
• 46:52
  named Sam Taya. This owner had been pretty kind
• 46:57
  to his parents Taylor was from Jerusalem and he had a rough
• 47:00
  time as a foreigner in the area and the South had taken care of
• 47:03
  him and he returned the favor. And then he gave up a strange
• 47:08
  Vibe of being both serious and intimidating, but also fine.
• 47:14
  So when people threatened Taya after, he had recorded, somebody
• 47:17
  selling drugs, to the store, Anthony Captain died out.
• 47:20
  And kind of a Riff Raff. Moved elsewhere in that could be
• 47:25
  in stores. Where he met the next and last
• 47:28
  significant relationship. Laura Fraser.
• 47:32
  Glory was an attitude got into a lot of trouble with the law
• 47:35
  based on her addictions. She's 37 and had four kids, who
• 47:39
  were all with her mother, because her time in prison, she
• 47:44
  was turning tricks for crack. When Anthony saw her holding a
• 47:47
  brown bag with beer and he offered her something better
• 47:50
  than here. And so, this being a normal like
• 47:56
  John and escort relationship, the two of them realize that
• 48:00
  they like each other. And they ended up just sitting
• 48:05
  around having drinks. Eating some Chinese food.
• 48:08
  They went to his house, the Stepmom was in and out of the
• 48:11
  hospital and so Anthony was currently living on the first
• 48:14
  floor at that point and they start kind of living together
• 48:17
  almost right away. Now when you're in prison for a
• 48:21
  long time you don't get access to the internet.
• 48:24
  I know. Now some prisoners have access
• 48:26
  to the internet but not back. How about that?
• 48:29
  They got access to the internet and cell phones and TVs.
• 48:33
  And some of that you got to be in good behaviour for sure.
• 48:36
  Yeah but Anthony got home, he realized that the internet was
• 48:42
  the incident. Internet wasn't a thing when he
• 48:44
  went to prison. He made an account on certain
• 48:48
  alternative sex websites. Where he was free to talk to
• 48:53
  people about these dark fantasy success.
• 48:56
  He he wrote himself as a dominant looking for a
• 48:59
  submissive. He was active on Black Planet,
• 49:02
  both places, he said he was single.
• 49:05
  And he kept telling Lori, he wanted to bring another woman
• 49:07
  into the bedroom. Lori was like, all right?
• 49:12
  Now things are going well for you, Anthony, and this is the
• 49:15
  year that people start noticing an odd smell 2006 Laurie,
• 49:20
  brought it up to him first, and he told her it was his stepmom
• 49:23
  at this point. He had moved up to the third
• 49:25
  floor and there was another family on the second floor and
• 49:28
  his mom was on the first, so he was blaming it on her being my
• 49:31
  bed, rest? Yeah.
• 49:33
  Then the, this, the middle family assumed that it was an
• 49:35
  animal that had crawled up under the house and died.
• 49:39
  He told his nephews, who came to visit that the basement Florida?
• 49:43
  The neighbors, blamed it on Race, sausage, that was next
• 49:45
  door. The City Health Department is
• 49:47
  getting complaints non-stop like somebody even said to the
• 49:50
  police. It smells like there's a dead
• 49:51
  body on this block. Oh, God.
• 49:55
  Now Renee cash and inherited, kind of the business from her
• 49:58
  family and she ran it with her siblings and she was, they were
• 50:02
  running Ray sausage, so the health department required them
• 50:07
  to pretty much rip up the ground in front of the plant and change
• 50:11
  out all of the greats. it's where the leftovers and blood
• 50:16
  and stuff. One cost the cost, the company
• 50:19
  thirty thousand dollars, God and nothing changed.
• 50:24
  The the health department was constantly checking the shop for
• 50:27
  cleanliness, nothing fat when I was ever found and that's of
• 50:30
  course because it wasn't raised sausage.
• 50:35
  Smoke was the only started when Ray and when Lori and Anthony
• 50:38
  were on the Rocks. So boring.
• 50:42
  It was always a crack at it but she had a rule.
• 50:46
  We can't be together if you use crack too.
• 50:50
  And Anthony hit it from her and she realized something was wrong
• 50:53
  and slowly dealers and other people would show up to the
• 50:56
  house at random times, they started fighting over, who was
• 51:00
  getting one from which dealer, who was using more, who was
• 51:02
  spending more of their money. Those arguments within the
• 51:06
  violent fights between the couple By June of 2006, Anthony
• 51:11
  doesn't even have the money to pay for a stepmother.
• 51:14
  Like Rank and Sabrina was actually trying to kick him out
• 51:17
  because she realized he was using drugs.
• 51:22
  The first of the major breakups happened shortly after that when
• 51:27
  Anthony got three thousand dollars from his tax return and
• 51:31
  Lori came home to a house party with kids as young as 12 at
• 51:36
  right, 15 kids were as young as 15 all over the house, drinking
• 51:41
  doing drugs. Oh my God, people in the house.
• 51:46
  Like people to go are like okay. She said one point there were
• 51:49
  like kids down behind the furnace like Like in up.
• 51:55
  Mhm. And then like, she's trying to
• 51:57
  look for Anthony. He will like, he's not here and
• 51:59
  so she saw it like, it was a very public like humiliation.
• 52:03
  She went back to her sister's place.
• 52:05
  You, she's really upset. This was start, their on-again
• 52:08
  off-again status that went on for quite some time.
• 52:11
  They would go back to date. They start fighting again.
• 52:14
  Anthony tell her to leave. The family on the second floor
• 52:19
  where the prompt is. So it's middle of 2006.
• 52:25
  Palm Bay is go downstairs and they see a piece of shirt tied
• 52:28
  to one of their cars and for people who didn't grow up in the
• 52:31
  hood, this is a sign that drugs are being sold at the property
• 52:34
  where the house where the car is the pompey's are like, you know
• 52:38
  what, I have had enough and they move out leaving his stepmother
• 52:43
  on the first floor, and him on the third Now, winter of 2007.
• 52:53
  So just after the season turn Anthony suffers a heart attack
• 52:57
  and he doesn't realize that he just realizes that he's sick.
• 53:02
  He doesn't go to the VA for like three weeks.
• 53:07
  And by the time, they look at him, that he suffered major
• 53:11
  heart damage, He also was dealing with atrial
• 53:14
  fibrillation, which is when your heart randomly just speeds up
• 53:18
  for no reason. It took until February 26.
• 53:22
  Well, I'm not even at by February 26.
• 53:23
  They thought he was dying. Man's it up giving him a
• 53:26
  temporary pacemaker and it actually worked, but they
• 53:29
  weren't sure that the pacemaker was going to stop
• 53:31
  defibrillation. They told him he was going to
• 53:34
  need therapy, but they weren't going to pay for it because
• 53:37
  that's how the VA treats veterans and the bill for the
• 53:41
  multiple pacemakers and everything.
• 53:45
  Was two hundred thousand dollars and we're God, mmm?
• 53:50
  What she obviously didn't have. He never went to therapy for his
• 53:53
  heart. He ended up having another small
• 53:55
  attack at the machine is job, and he had to quit.
• 54:00
  Now, he and Lori are on that. She would disappear for days, on
• 54:03
  end, for kids won't even know where she was, and they would
• 54:06
  call him and be like, where's mom?
• 54:11
  And then he would be mad at her when she came back and you be
• 54:14
  like, yo, your kids are calling me crying.
• 54:15
  Like, what are you doing? Yeah, she's like mind your
• 54:19
  business. Well, it's kind of my business
• 54:22
  now, because your kids are, like, involving me in this.
• 54:25
  I know, I know, You start using again, despite the fact that the
• 54:30
  man has a heart condition and should not be doing any sort of
• 54:33
  major drugs. And these first victim was May
• 54:39
  of 2007. She went missing on Mother's
• 54:41
  Day, my name is Crystal Dozier Christmas.
• 54:46
  I knew that his mommy's drugs and he even reported the fact
• 54:50
  that she went to Anthony sowell's house to score, but the
• 54:55
  police never filed a report and never checked campus house.
• 55:02
  June of 2007. He ramps up in Cleveland, the
• 55:08
  bad smell start. Again people call the health
• 55:11
  department over. Another nothing comes from it.
• 55:14
  Now that same month Sam Taya, has that corner store on the
• 55:19
  Block, one of his employees, says, like, yo, there's
• 55:25
  something nasty out in the dumpster.
• 55:32
  So, He goes out there and he sees these like two packages,
• 55:39
  they like wrapped up in plastic so you can't tell what they are
• 55:42
  but there's like it smells awful like death and there's flies
• 55:46
  around there and then he's just like I don't have time for this
• 55:51
  right now. I'll check it later.
• 55:52
  Get I'll take a check it later later.
• 55:54
  That day, the dump trucks take it away.
• 55:56
  It's never thought about it now, the rest of 2007, nothing else
• 56:01
  happens. But in early 2008, Lori comes
• 56:05
  home and finds the like the entire third floor.
• 56:09
  Apartment. Covered in blood like walls
• 56:11
  floor bed. He had tried to clean it up some
• 56:14
  and he just told her that someone had tried to Rob him and
• 56:18
  they got into a fight with a person when they're gone.
• 56:21
  Yeah. Gone.
• 56:23
  Huh, in February? She checks on Anthony again.
• 56:27
  He has a neck wound, so deep. You can see the like the white
• 56:31
  meat his neck. He told her he'd been attacked
• 56:33
  while he was scrapping an abandoned house.
• 56:36
  Now, here's the thing. Like, I list these in here as
• 56:39
  the victims, that we know what it is, considering the bad smell
• 56:43
  started in 2006, and he had multiple events like this, that
• 56:48
  we don't have any correlation to a missing person.
• 56:52
  There is the belief that he had more victims.
• 56:58
  And that these were people who fought back.
• 57:02
  And either, they were rape victims who never told on him or
• 57:11
  these are people, he murdered and he just supposed of them in
• 57:14
  other ways like the dumpster. A month later.
• 57:19
  March now, Lori's like you gets attacked again this time near
• 57:25
  Woodland Hills Park Lori doesn't really have time to focus on him
• 57:28
  to there's a warrant out for her arrest.
• 57:30
  She gets caught March 6, 2008 and ends up having the battle
• 57:33
  with the courts until August of 2008.
• 57:35
  Strangely enough go Anthony supports her the whole way
• 57:38
  testifies for her is just like she's one of a person, you know
• 57:42
  she really helped me when I got out of prison, yada yada yada.
• 57:46
  So she ends up not going to jail.
• 57:48
  But she didn't go back to you. He was very upset, he backed up
• 57:53
  all of her stuff and she like dropped it off at a friend's
• 57:56
  house. And by the time she got, when
• 57:57
  she went to the friend's house, she opened the bag and
• 57:59
  everything was cut, cut up into pieces, honey.
• 58:05
  I think it's worry broke up with him because she heard that while
• 58:08
  she was in like, can do, he was having women over the house and
• 58:12
  he was women who he murdered, she know about that part yet,
• 58:16
  but yet she's you'll find out. This week.
• 58:19
  Well, the second victim was to show Nicole over and she was
• 58:22
  last seen May 21st 2008. Almost all of Anthony's victims.
• 58:27
  It's the same Emma. They come from broken homes.
• 58:30
  Have, horrible lives that lead to drug addiction criminal
• 58:32
  prosecution, which make them people that no one is really
• 58:35
  looking after Shauna was the same day.
• 58:38
  She had a domestic violence charge with her ex she was part
• 58:44
  of a work release program and then she just disappeared and
• 58:47
  the courts. Just decided but oh, she must
• 58:50
  have just skipped and she's gone.
• 58:54
  All they know is that at some point, she left work, she met
• 58:57
  Anthony went to his house and never came out.
• 59:04
  His third victim was respond to what was Sean along.
• 59:07
  She was a Cleveland native with a long history of abuse drug
• 59:11
  abuse drug convictions. She had stopped returning her
• 59:16
  family's called and may of 2008 but she was living with a
• 59:20
  boyfriend and obviously of 2008. Her boyfriend obviously, didn't
• 59:25
  give too much of a damn because all they did was make up flyers
• 59:31
  and put them all around the neighborhood.
• 59:32
  She was never officially filed as a missing person.
• 59:35
  Wow. Not Anthony kidnapped and failed
• 59:39
  to kill the Nessa gay and September of 2008.
• 59:42
  She met him on the street. Sometime in August that you were
• 59:45
  familiar with each other. We get high together from time
• 59:47
  to time, but he never made a move to her.
• 59:49
  And so he invited her to his house on his birthday.
• 59:52
  August 19th. He attacked him in the home and
• 59:55
  tried to choke her with an extension cord.
• 1:00:01
  So that he could rape her and that's was able to fight him
• 1:00:04
  off. She never spoke about this to
• 1:00:06
  anybody until he was arrested because she didn't believe that.
• 1:00:09
  Anybody would believe her. She would later tell detectives
• 1:00:13
  that the same night. She was attacked.
• 1:00:15
  She saw a decapitated head that was his Emma, choke them.
• 1:00:22
  Rape them, Hilda, His fourth victim was Michelle Mason
• 1:00:28
  missing in October of 2008, just like the Shonda, Michelle's
• 1:00:31
  family, pepper, the neighborhood photos.
• 1:00:34
  They knew that she'd been hanging out with Anthony and
• 1:00:36
  they didn't want her to be near him, her parents even mentioned
• 1:00:40
  to the cops. This man that she's hanging out
• 1:00:41
  with his infected sex offender, but they told the family that
• 1:00:45
  this wasn't enough evidence to get a search.
• 1:00:54
  Sorry. Yeah.
• 1:00:55
  Well, that's number five, Tommy Carmichael.
• 1:00:57
  Her parents realized she was missing in November of 2008,
• 1:01:01
  which disclose at responding to them and she showed she wasn't
• 1:01:05
  even from Cleveland. But that they knew that she was
• 1:01:09
  there. So they cross they come to
• 1:01:12
  Cleveland. They show up at the Warrenville
• 1:01:14
  police station on November 2008. They ask you.
• 1:01:16
  They could submit a part A submitting a couple missing
• 1:01:19
  persons report for some reason, they don't do it.
• 1:01:22
  And so the family starts their own search for her people on the
• 1:01:26
  Block say, like yo, we saw her around Imperial street which is
• 1:01:29
  the street where Anthony lived. Her mom goes to try and follow a
• 1:01:33
  report at the fourth district station which covers Imperial
• 1:01:36
  street. And they won't take a report.
• 1:01:41
  Cleveland Police deny this behemoth.
• 1:01:45
  Her mother, find your missing car.
• 1:01:48
  You're the corner of 118th Street and Ken's New Street
• 1:01:52
  which is about a 10-minute walk to Anthony sowell's house.
• 1:01:57
  Sighing. Islam goes back to the 4th
• 1:01:58
  District, and it's just like she was obviously in your District,
• 1:02:03
  her cars here, like, help us out, and the fourth district
• 1:02:07
  police, tell her no go back to Warren's.
• 1:02:09
  Bill filed, a missing persons report there because you said,
• 1:02:12
  that's where she was living, but she was here, she ended up
• 1:02:17
  missing here. So when y'all do the search
• 1:02:21
  here, right? Well, Warren's will take the
• 1:02:24
  report, but this time so much time has passed. past that like
• 1:02:28
  you're starting a week behind when people go missing, you got
• 1:02:32
  24 hours to do something to find people, like 24 hours or 48
• 1:02:38
  hours and you got you're definitely behind on that and
• 1:02:43
  it's sorry. No, you're fine.
• 1:02:46
  I was going to say it's just funny, like yeah.
• 1:02:48
  All these people that are coming like hey my family member is
• 1:02:52
  missing and it just happens to be around the same area, right?
• 1:02:57
  No one's making a issue that like women are going missing
• 1:03:00
  left and right specifically around here you'll Street yeah.
• 1:03:07
  Looking like a several block radius, but regardless, just
• 1:03:11
  like the other women time passes, Sonya's, forgotten.
• 1:03:17
  Now, Gladys Wade, would be the second woman who survived her
• 1:03:20
  encounter with Anthony? That we know of that happened.
• 1:03:23
  December of 2008, lot of was a hardcore crack addict who had
• 1:03:27
  actually dropped in a college. Just before she was done.
• 1:03:30
  Like the two months before she was finished, because she was so
• 1:03:35
  addicted to drugs. That's what it does to you man.
• 1:03:37
  Like there's some stuff not even once not even once.
• 1:03:40
  No heroin no crack will cocaine. No Molly drugs.
• 1:03:44
  But you can like have horrible side effects of First time you
• 1:03:47
  take them not even once. Yeah December 8. 2008 she'd
• 1:03:54
  actually just gotten out of County Jail, her and her
• 1:03:58
  boyfriend got in trouble for attacking the Apartments
• 1:04:00
  maintenance, man. Now Gladys had a sister.
• 1:04:06
  Her sister was Twyla. And so after she gets out of
• 1:04:10
  jail, she goes to visit to Iowa, that's the mother of Anthony's
• 1:04:13
  child. She stopped at the corner store
• 1:04:17
  on Imperial and 123rd Street. And that's where she met
• 1:04:21
  Anthony. He offered to buy her a beer.
• 1:04:22
  She was like, no thanks. And as he was leaving the area,
• 1:04:27
  he grabbed her from behind a Chokehold cutting off her hair,
• 1:04:30
  she passed out and took her into the house.
• 1:04:33
  As soon as she woke up she started screaming as Anthony is
• 1:04:38
  like yelling at her. Take off her clothes she like
• 1:04:41
  Gladys fought back viciously. The two of them falling down
• 1:04:44
  like the first flight of stairs from the third to the second
• 1:04:47
  floor. During the encounter her hand
• 1:04:49
  goes through a glass, pane causing a laceration in her
• 1:04:52
  hand. There's blood everywhere, they
• 1:04:54
  fall down another flight of steps before, Anthony, it's just
• 1:04:57
  like this is too much. She runs across the street to
• 1:05:02
  the pizza place. They call the police.
• 1:05:04
  They didn't want her to be in the building because she was
• 1:05:06
  like just bleeding everywhere. Yeah.
• 1:05:11
  The police, she overhears Anthony telling neighbors that
• 1:05:14
  some woman had tried to Rob him and he hit her and that's why
• 1:05:17
  there's blood in the snow. Gladys takes off running into
• 1:05:23
  the night, so she finds another set of cops and they get her
• 1:05:26
  Nancy, they take her testimony that night.
• 1:05:29
  They take Anthony hands cuffed Well, here was that he had
• 1:05:34
  actually had succeeded in doing either.
• 1:05:39
  There was a record. He raped somebody in the past.
• 1:05:42
  Yeah but he can only drug her off the street to so it wasn't
• 1:05:47
  you're not wrong but he was removed based on he was released
• 1:05:52
  based on something called a straight and relief. and
• 1:05:57
  honestly Gladys had never heard of that ever happening before,
• 1:06:02
  but it is a political thing where Essentially.
• 1:06:10
  It was a 24-hour that you have 24 hours to get the charges
• 1:06:15
  together or they release the criminal.
• 1:06:20
  This was something that only existed in Cleveland in the 90s
• 1:06:23
  and like the early 2000s and the problem was with the straight
• 1:06:28
  releases that criminals will use aliases, which hindered the
• 1:06:31
  indictment process, they slide and it took the police too long.
• 1:06:36
  Like they missed the 24 hour window and the person will not
• 1:06:38
  release. That's exactly what happened
• 1:06:40
  here. When they failed to be able to
• 1:06:43
  come up with enough evidence to prove that, like it was he said,
• 1:06:46
  see, like he said, she said they released him on December 10th.
• 1:06:51
  They said, Gladys wasn't a credible Witness.
• 1:06:58
  But the number six is Tim Smith. She went by the name Candy on
• 1:07:01
  the street. What messing January 17th 2009?
• 1:07:04
  She lives with her dad and actually, they were really
• 1:07:06
  close. She gone out for a night of like
• 1:07:10
  fun and she never came home. Her dad, Donald Smith like
• 1:07:13
  absolutely love the crap out of his daughter, but she developed
• 1:07:16
  a drug problem in college. She actually worked Street
• 1:07:20
  around Imperial and she went missing while she was working.
• 1:07:24
  Again. He put out a reward for 500
• 1:07:29
  dollars for information for his daughter, but he never contacted
• 1:07:33
  Cleveland police because he didn't believe in their ability
• 1:07:35
  to help him find his daughter. I mean you wrong there but yeah
• 1:07:44
  there's a law in kidnappings after this probably because of
• 1:07:47
  the fight we thought us and the subsequent arrest.
• 1:07:49
  So I think he was trying to be a little bit more Discerning but
• 1:07:53
  either way, no one goes missing until again until April.
• 1:07:59
  That tiny dots escaped in April and Imelda Hunter and Nancy
• 1:08:03
  Cobbs both disappeared in April. So things are ramping up now.
• 1:08:07
  Tanya Das have been an ex of Anthony's before he dated Lori
• 1:08:11
  and I guess she had fixed in her head that she was gonna get him
• 1:08:15
  back. So they started like being, you
• 1:08:19
  know, nice to each other. Can she come see him in the
• 1:08:21
  hole? April 21st.
• 1:08:24
  Everything's gone. Cool.
• 1:08:26
  They smoked they watch the game and then just one moment.
• 1:08:29
  When time is not paying attention he's straight up like
• 1:08:31
  knocks her down on the bed, she described it as like Jacqueline
• 1:08:34
  high and she opted to comply instead of fight and the
• 1:08:41
  following morning she told him she had to go check on her
• 1:08:43
  granddaughter and let her go. Tanya never told the police
• 1:08:49
  because she was worried that she get arrested because they both
• 1:08:51
  been smoking. Crack it right there.
• 1:08:53
  And tone that is. Hey, this guy's all to me.
• 1:08:58
  Last time, Imelda country was seen was a few days before.
• 1:09:02
  Tanya's tack on April 18. Imelda was also an addict and
• 1:09:07
  she had an adult son who went to all her old Hangouts and her
• 1:09:11
  that she had been at the houses across the street, from the
• 1:09:15
  pizza place on Imperial. Similar to Kim Smith, dad,
• 1:09:19
  Imelda tried to find his mom on his own, never filed.
• 1:09:21
  A police report because He was just like screw thoughts his fan
• 1:09:26
  him and the rest of the family kind of peppered the
• 1:09:28
  neighborhood, the Flyers about amalga.
• 1:09:31
  Now here's the one that really like kind of wow I feel bad
• 1:09:34
  about this foot. Tanya had a best friend.
• 1:09:38
  Her best friend was Nancy Cobb. and so, after the assault that
• 1:09:43
  takes place on April 21st, Tanya tells Nancy that Anthony raped
• 1:09:52
  her and she's just like, you know, it was crazy.
• 1:09:59
  Nancy just assumes that maybe he just got too high, he freaked
• 1:10:02
  out and like his look, real aggressive during sex.
• 1:10:05
  Whatever Nancy goes, missing, April 29th, 2009.
• 1:10:12
  This her friend, like I don't know, maybe report this to the
• 1:10:17
  police or me. Well, not only did Nancy's
• 1:10:21
  family report her to the police. Nancy story was on the news but
• 1:10:26
  nobody had any idea where she was that made the game seven and
• 1:10:31
  eight. The next tax happened, about two
• 1:10:35
  months ago. June of 2009.
• 1:10:37
  Pick the ninth Alicia forts in, just like all of our other
• 1:10:40
  victims troubled past starting in adolescence, she went
• 1:10:43
  missing, just after visiting, the Imperial Corner Store,
• 1:10:47
  Anthony's block, her mother Inez, reported her, missing to
• 1:10:51
  the East Cleveland police, and they gave her a list of morgues
• 1:10:56
  hospitals and other police departments to go.
• 1:10:59
  Call boy, no. I thought you would find that
• 1:11:05
  one. Interesting.
• 1:11:06
  What the fuck? We're Not Gonna file.
• 1:11:10
  A missing persons report. Go look for your junkie daughter
• 1:11:12
  and all the mortise and Tenon. Yes.
• 1:11:14
  Go find her no more because she's pretty, she probably is
• 1:11:18
  God. That's oh my God.
• 1:11:20
  Yeah, she called them all, but no one.
• 1:11:23
  There was no delay. So it just vanished.
• 1:11:27
  Victim time was Janice web another.
• 1:11:29
  She was actually a former addict trying to get her life straight.
• 1:11:32
  She'd been going to AA for a couple months.
• 1:11:35
  But she met Anthony, she started using again even though she was
• 1:11:40
  back on track and her family has kind of separated themselves
• 1:11:43
  from her. She still called them every
• 1:11:45
  single day. So her sister, Audrey realized
• 1:11:49
  something was wrong, when she didn't hear from Janice by June
• 1:11:53
  2nd. Audrey found a missing persons
• 1:11:56
  report. Art, and she did the same thing
• 1:11:58
  as everybody else. She started putting up fliers
• 1:12:01
  around her around Anthony's house.
• 1:12:06
  Victim, 11 was Diane Turner. She went missing in September of
• 1:12:09
  2009. Diane also started traveling
• 1:12:13
  with drugs. She was epileptic.
• 1:12:15
  She had struggled with her mental health, she spent her
• 1:12:18
  childhood and adult life and out of the system, she didn't have a
• 1:12:21
  lot of family. And so, even though people on
• 1:12:23
  the street noticed she was gone, no one ever found a missing
• 1:12:26
  person report for Diane either. Now Anthony is disposing of
• 1:12:31
  these remains of all of these victims in around his house and
• 1:12:34
  it's not like people didn't say anything.
• 1:12:37
  Like, summer 2009, there was a handyman named James, Martin,
• 1:12:40
  who did some work, like, to another house on the Block.
• 1:12:43
  And he was just like, it smells like dead people here.
• 1:12:47
  Pretty much anybody who came around there, notice this just
• 1:12:51
  permeating set of death. But the next two attacks would
• 1:12:56
  be the things that would get Hannah.
• 1:13:00
  So, September 22nd 2009, it's pretty cloudy Tuesday.
• 1:13:03
  The tundra, Billups remembers that she was in the middle of a
• 1:13:07
  pretty bad crack habit. She knew Anthony, because he
• 1:13:11
  helped her score, she had been there with victim.
• 1:13:15
  Number 11 Diana and Nancy called But because Anthony had remains
• 1:13:24
  on the third floor, they were now hanging out on the second
• 1:13:27
  floor. He told her his room, his living
• 1:13:31
  space was too dirty didn't want to bring a woman there.
• 1:13:34
  So, the tiger had heard around the block that there was an
• 1:13:38
  accusation that he was the rapist.
• 1:13:40
  And so, she was like, yo, what's up with this?
• 1:13:43
  All these girls are saying, you did weird stuff to them and
• 1:13:46
  Anthony responds by attacking her and trying to rape her.
• 1:13:49
  Oh my fucking God. Come on.
• 1:13:54
  It's like well, you know, they're not wrong.
• 1:13:57
  She actually noticed him pulling away extension cord, out of the
• 1:14:00
  wall and he choked her until she passed out afterwards.
• 1:14:02
  She said he behaved normal. He apologized for ripping up her
• 1:14:06
  sweater and she was with a promise that if she came back.
• 1:14:09
  The next day, he gave her 50 dollars for a t-shirt, she made
• 1:14:12
  it across the street to a restaurant called by a man named
• 1:14:17
  place at Beth. She started like sobbing as soon
• 1:14:20
  as she walked to the restaurant door.
• 1:14:23
  She told the owner Anthony tried to kill her and that she played
• 1:14:26
  dead to get him to leave her be. She went to the ER reported that
• 1:14:29
  she'd been assaulted and raped. She talked to a counselor And
• 1:14:34
  the counselor there said, yeah, you're like the fifth woman to
• 1:14:38
  tell us that Anthony Sowell. Rach, you done.
• 1:14:44
  I'm fucking done. Ooh, pretty.
• 1:14:47
  I told you. If you frustrated, they tell you
• 1:14:49
  what what what do you what do you?
• 1:14:52
  What do you mean? What do you mean?
• 1:14:55
  Well the problem is for some of these women who are kind of
• 1:14:59
  transient By the time the process of the time like for the
• 1:15:06
  tundra, it was weeks before anybody from the sex crimes unit
• 1:15:10
  reached out to her. And there was a detective whose
• 1:15:12
  name was Durst, who did take the tundra seriously.
• 1:15:15
  But he had to then go do the legwork and try and track down
• 1:15:18
  other people and get interviews and evidence.
• 1:15:21
  So that goes well into October. The final attack that I think
• 1:15:27
  really like a lot like these two between like September and
• 1:15:30
  October that happened are the things that ultimately caused
• 1:15:34
  his demise. So while detective Durst is
• 1:15:38
  working the case pretty much the meantime. 51 year old, Sean
• 1:15:43
  Morris is salted by Anthony to October 20th. 2009 she'd been
• 1:15:47
  out kind of have a you know, day party and getting high during
• 1:15:50
  again she stood at the bus stop when Anthony saw her She knew he
• 1:15:55
  had connections to drugs, and that's all she really wanted for
• 1:15:57
  that. She wanted to score.
• 1:15:59
  So they had a pretty regular moment, getting high Sean, went
• 1:16:02
  home and as she was going to get on the bus, she realized that
• 1:16:06
  she had left her identification at Anthony's house.
• 1:16:09
  If she went back. When she went back into the
• 1:16:12
  house and ran upstairs, that's when he attacked her, he told
• 1:16:15
  her if she tried to scream or run, he would kill her.
• 1:16:17
  She says she remembers those thought, being very violent, but
• 1:16:22
  she screamed for help. He ran to another room to start
• 1:16:26
  closing the windows and left one window in his room where the
• 1:16:30
  attack was happening open. And which Sean naked.
• 1:16:36
  Climbs out the window on the third floor.
• 1:16:39
  Yep, Anthony comes around. It's like, oh no.
• 1:16:43
  And he tries to grab her to pull her back in and she's straight
• 1:16:47
  up. Let's go.
• 1:16:49
  Falling three floors three stories to the ground breaks,
• 1:16:52
  both her hands eight. Ribs, fractured her skull, but
• 1:16:55
  she is alive. Okay, now one of us that
• 1:16:59
  bastard's employees is like I just saw a lady fall out of a
• 1:17:02
  building Right across the street from me, right?
• 1:17:06
  Exact place. That is just like I am sick and
• 1:17:09
  tired of what is going on with the women and Anthony foul so he
• 1:17:14
  heads over. To the alley.
• 1:17:16
  And he sees Anthony down there trying to pick up shot Sean.
• 1:17:21
  It's just kind of, like, incapable of moving, just
• 1:17:23
  screaming. Help other people have come out
• 1:17:25
  of their houses and they are filming this interaction.
• 1:17:28
  Somebody ends up giving her their shirt to cover her up.
• 1:17:32
  And he tries to say that she's his wife and he need to bring
• 1:17:35
  her back inside that she had. Fallen out of balcony, the
• 1:17:38
  paramedics came and by that time she had passed out, he tells
• 1:17:42
  them. I'm her wife, they let him ride.
• 1:17:49
  and the ambulance now here's the thing Sean was unfortunately she
• 1:17:55
  was married and that person was not a right.
• 1:17:59
  It's a show he felt like my husband's going to find out that
• 1:18:02
  I was caught naked with a string.
• 1:18:06
  So she just told them that they were getting high she dropped
• 1:18:08
  her keys golf about only problem is the balcony wasn't on the
• 1:18:12
  same side of the alley and the police were real suspicious but
• 1:18:16
  both Anthony and Sean said it was an accident.
• 1:18:19
  So please for like are you sure it was an accident?
• 1:18:22
  And she's like, yep. Yep.
• 1:18:23
  Yep, so they could really do anything because nobody reported
• 1:18:26
  a crime so as he thinks he's safe, but let's hundreds case
• 1:18:31
  makes it to the department and they filed charges against him
• 1:18:34
  on October 28th. Nine, they sign a warrant to
• 1:18:38
  check his house on October 29th at six pm 13 SWAT members show
• 1:18:43
  up to raid his home. Now.
• 1:18:44
  This is just for the rape of the tundra.
• 1:18:48
  The SWAT team walk in and they're just like this place
• 1:18:51
  smells awful. So the team breaks with like,
• 1:18:57
  splits up a team, goes down to the basement.
• 1:18:59
  They're open all the doors on the first floor.
• 1:19:01
  Second floor, third floor, third floor, there is a locked door,
• 1:19:05
  the breach, the door. And there are the bodies of
• 1:19:08
  Tunisia for Stephen and Diane tartar in the basement.
• 1:19:12
  At the same time officers, find freshly, move dirt which is
• 1:19:15
  Genesis Webster means they stopped the search, leave the
• 1:19:20
  house and the change, the warrant pretty much they contact
• 1:19:23
  the Age to get a new war. Screw the rape charge murder and
• 1:19:29
  they contacted the court, Anthony's, not in the house of
• 1:19:33
  business. But they're recovering bodies
• 1:19:36
  everywhere. One of Anthony's neighbors goes
• 1:19:40
  and tells his sister truss up. That look police are in front of
• 1:19:43
  Anthony's house. And as she walks in, she finds
• 1:19:47
  Anthony combo sitting on Tresses couch.
• 1:19:51
  And she's like, you got to go back and talk to them, like
• 1:19:54
  they're saying that they found a body upstairs, and he only says
• 1:19:58
  two things on the right there, that girl made me do it and it's
• 1:20:03
  all going to come out now. when they pulled up though, he asked,
• 1:20:08
  he's like, take me back and so she did When the neighbor got
• 1:20:14
  home, she just straight-up wanted to the police and was
• 1:20:17
  like, the man you're looking for is that his sister's house?
• 1:20:22
  He admitted to us. That he did it.
• 1:20:25
  Now as soon as Anthony got back to trust his house, he took off
• 1:20:28
  running. He was staying in abandoned
• 1:20:31
  houses. They put a 12 thousand dollar
• 1:20:35
  bounty on his head Crimestoppers.
• 1:20:39
  Friday, October 30th 2009, they bring in like a whole like
• 1:20:43
  forensic team, who find the remains in the property, he had
• 1:20:47
  made very little attempt to hide what he was doing.
• 1:20:49
  Most of them were shot in the backyard, not buried, more than
• 1:20:52
  24 inches. Which did not hide them or the
• 1:20:56
  scent. She Crystal Crystal Dozier was
• 1:21:00
  found with a piece of cloth wrapped around her neck, her
• 1:21:02
  wrists and ankles were bound with wire tying.
• 1:21:05
  A Carmichael was discovered in a shallow backyard, Grant
• 1:21:08
  electrical cord around her neck and that's a hunter was there as
• 1:21:11
  well. A strap from her purse.
• 1:21:12
  Since around her growth Michelle Mason was partially covered in
• 1:21:15
  the backyard by dirt and blankets and plastic garbage
• 1:21:19
  bags. It even bother bury her like
• 1:21:22
  Crystal. She'd also been strangled with
• 1:21:24
  cloth. Tim Smith who hadn't even been
• 1:21:27
  reported missing was the last of the bodies.
• 1:21:29
  We found the backyard naked from the waist down wrapped in a
• 1:21:31
  blanket and clear plastic bags. She was also tied with strips of
• 1:21:36
  gall to show in a Culver was found and the crawl space in the
• 1:21:40
  front sitting room which is the same SWAT place.
• 1:21:44
  Where SWAT team member Richard Butler, found selicia Fortson
• 1:21:47
  Nancy cobs and Diane toner. So Sean is necklace fractured
• 1:21:52
  and she was bound with moderate growth.
• 1:21:55
  Nancy. Nancy was determined to be the
• 1:21:59
  fourth body. She had been strangled then
• 1:22:01
  close in five layers of black plastic bags and wrapped in a
• 1:22:05
  comforter. A 36-inch shoelace and 12 inch
• 1:22:10
  long. Sock were wrapped around her
• 1:22:13
  neck, and her wrists were bound with other shoe laces, Janice
• 1:22:16
  web and the Shonda long were also found in the basement.
• 1:22:19
  Anthony managed to hide until Halloween.
• 1:22:22
  So two days And the reason why he came out of hiding was
• 1:22:27
  cussing, you need to get high, and a man by the name of Joe
• 1:22:31
  Beale wasn't cost them walking around like a skeleton.
• 1:22:36
  And he saw Anthony and he called it, he didn't, he did get that
• 1:22:42
  twelve thousand dollars as well. Say he got his money.
• 1:22:45
  Damn, right. He got that 12 Grand Anthony
• 1:22:48
  tried to play it off. When the police arrived, they
• 1:22:50
  didn't have a picture because I guess cops didn't have cell
• 1:22:53
  phones like that at the time he wasn't late 2009.
• 1:22:59
  You had so, come on. Yeah, I don't know, but they
• 1:23:01
  didn't have a picture of who they were looking for. but that
• 1:23:07
  didn't really matter with the cops, they were just like this
• 1:23:10
  guy's wanted and that guy thinks you look like the guy and then
• 1:23:14
  you try to play it off like he was a druggie and the cops had
• 1:23:17
  already like talk to him the night before.
• 1:23:20
  They bring out a fingerprint scanner and he's just like,
• 1:23:22
  never mind. It's me.
• 1:23:24
  I did it. He's 50 years old, they said
• 1:23:29
  it's bonded. Five million dollars owed.
• 1:23:33
  This is good. No, but damn good.
• 1:23:40
  I take his lawyers. Almost two years to go through
• 1:23:43
  the thousands upon thousands of hours of CCTV, footage of
• 1:23:47
  Anthony's comings and goings in the area as well as all the
• 1:23:50
  Cements and records and charges against him.
• 1:23:52
  He's Charles started on June 6, 2011, he was charged with 11
• 1:23:55
  counts of aggravated murder and seventy four counts of rape,
• 1:23:59
  kidnapping tampering with evidence and abuse of a corpse
• 1:24:02
  he plead guilty by reason of insanity.
• 1:24:04
  But during the trial, he just changed it to not guilty.
• 1:24:08
  Trout took about a month, July 22nd 2011.
• 1:24:11
  He's found guilty of all, but two counts.
• 1:24:14
  The jury reconvene on August 10 2011 and they recommended the
• 1:24:18
  death penalty. Two days later, it was upheld by
• 1:24:22
  the judge. and September 14th, Anthony was put on death row, at
• 1:24:27
  the chili cook-off, Correctional Institution, which is when we
• 1:24:33
  find our next flaw in the system, is lawyers filed an
• 1:24:36
  appeal, the Supreme Court of Ohio because his execution was
• 1:24:41
  scheduled for October 29th, the following year, okay, he had one
• 1:24:46
  year there were not going to be 20 years on death row and Ohio,
• 1:24:49
  apparently No, they didn't get an appeal but they did get a
• 1:24:53
  stay of execution. She just didn't kill next year.
• 1:24:59
  Why not? They managed to push it off
• 1:25:02
  2013. He gets new lawyers.
• 1:25:04
  Who say that he didn't get a fair trial because the media
• 1:25:07
  coverage, but his previous lawyer suck, and they had an
• 1:25:09
  issue with the jury being chosen.
• 1:25:10
  When the court was closed from the public, these motions went
• 1:25:14
  on for a while, but in 2016, that appeal was rejected, May
• 1:25:17
  2017. He appealed to the US Supreme
• 1:25:20
  Court, they denied to hear the case saying that Ohio had done
• 1:25:23
  its job properly. February 2018, the Ohio Supreme
• 1:25:26
  Court, denied a third appearance, He'll may have 20/20
• 1:25:29
  was denied again. Pretty much through abusing the
• 1:25:33
  appeals process and he sells example to extend his life, an
• 1:25:37
  extra decade. He died.
• 1:25:40
  February 2021 and the turmoil. Oh, just last year.
• 1:25:46
  Yep. That Imperial Avenue house was
• 1:25:50
  demolished in 2011 on July, 16th 2021, it began building what
• 1:25:54
  they call The Garden of eleven Angels.
• 1:25:57
  It was dedicated on my birthday. November 6 2021.
• 1:26:01
  Hey for the first time and 2001 the five women who escaped
• 1:26:06
  Anthony told their stories and episode of snapped on oxygen on
• 1:26:10
  July 24th 2021. Ray sausage still struggling to
• 1:26:15
  stay in business, obviously was proven that the family's
• 1:26:18
  business was not the reason for the smell but that did
• 1:26:20
  negatively impact their business for quite some time.
• 1:26:23
  All right. Did he have Cleveland agreed to
• 1:26:25
  pay six of the 11 families, 1 million dollars due to botched
• 1:26:32
  investigations or feasible investigate the disappearance
• 1:26:36
  It's what about like? What about?
• 1:26:40
  Like the hospital and leave the the person who said, oh yeah,
• 1:26:43
  yeah, five other people who came here in like, wait.
• 1:26:46
  So that's not the hospital's called there.
• 1:26:48
  But all the hospital can do is take the rape kit, reports the
• 1:26:51
  police. The problem is, you've got
• 1:26:54
  somebody who's a junkie who's scared, they're going to be
• 1:26:56
  arrested if they talk to cops. So, by the time, the cops get
• 1:26:59
  there, the woman's though. And so now they just have this
• 1:27:02
  report. And this woman, they can't find
• 1:27:05
  And that well, I'm going to talk about like part of why.
• 1:27:08
  This is the problem and give me mod, like two minutes to
• 1:27:11
  grandstand. I know you've been looking for a
• 1:27:13
  while, but I painstakingly brought up the strictest history
• 1:27:16
  because it is important to ask you to decide that's the story.
• 1:27:19
  Socially, we have decided that some people don't deserve
• 1:27:21
  empathy, they deserve less caring, less respect.
• 1:27:24
  And those people are always the victims of man, like Gary
• 1:27:27
  Ridgway and Samuel, little and Anthony sell.
• 1:27:29
  A lot of times people ask me how our serial killer so successful.
• 1:27:34
  And I have So many times in the last year that serial killers
• 1:27:37
  are not so brilliant class of criminal, they are exploiting a
• 1:27:41
  loophole in our justice system. A blindness that our system
• 1:27:44
  possesses and like until we stop ranking in filing.
• 1:27:48
  Human value like this, we're going to see crimes like this.
• 1:27:51
  Persist, I also think this is why I am so hard on Cops in
• 1:27:55
  these pods fast because when a community does not have faith in
• 1:27:58
  the justice system, they don't use it.
• 1:28:03
  Too, many of his victims did not have faith in the Cleveland
• 1:28:06
  Police Department, and because they didn't have that Faith
• 1:28:10
  police were unaware, that they had a serial killer on their
• 1:28:12
  hands. It's all checks, and balances,
• 1:28:15
  and for the USA, everything is out of balance, and it has been
• 1:28:18
  now for decades. This is why we have the protest
• 1:28:21
  for unjust shootings and brutality and I feel it really
• 1:28:24
  feel like police officers, feel like everybody's ganging up on
• 1:28:27
  their profession right now, but like we want to be protected, we
• 1:28:30
  want to be able to call you. We want to believe that
• 1:28:33
  somewhere out there. When bad things happen, the bad
• 1:28:35
  guys get caught. That's the satisfaction of this
• 1:28:38
  podcast. You know that when you leave the
• 1:28:41
  episode, I have told you that Justice was done.
• 1:28:44
  It may have been delayed but it happened.
• 1:28:47
  I wish there were more cases where I could say, the bad guy
• 1:28:50
  gets got it doesn't take 10. 20 years for it to happen.
• 1:28:55
  Way we work on that as if we stopped our victims away because
• 1:28:58
  they aren't perfect people and we got to stop letting Predators
• 1:29:01
  go because they are nice, guys. But, you know, that's my
• 1:29:06
  grandstanding for the day I'm done. yeah, got a lot of
• 1:29:12
  feelings about I mean, what's your right though?
• 1:29:16
  You're like everything. You said absolutely correct?
• 1:29:18
  Like you stand wonder what's behind that.
• 1:29:20
  Link. If the, if the justice system
• 1:29:24
  worked in that Community then they would have called him like
• 1:29:30
  the first woman who report but specifically chose women who
• 1:29:35
  were addicts, and I don't know if it was as purposeful as say
• 1:29:41
  Gary Ridgway or Sam, Littles was but People who are streetwalkers
• 1:29:48
  or doing sex work or on drugs, should be able to report that a
• 1:29:52
  crime has happened to them and have some reasonable
• 1:29:55
  expectation. That will be taken.
• 1:29:57
  Seriously, that this is not what they deserve.
• 1:29:59
  Yeah. Because they aren't living the
• 1:30:02
  life that we approve to be. You know, I deal in the US and
• 1:30:06
  that just reminds me of the Green River Killer like, like
• 1:30:11
  seriously? Yeah.
• 1:30:18
  Great storytelling is always thank you.
• 1:30:22
  Well, what do we have today in our paranormal palette?
• 1:30:27
  Because that was a lot. Okay?
• 1:30:29
  This one you'll find enjoyable. Okay, okay, okay.
• 1:30:37
  So I talked about like two men last year that had a knack for
• 1:30:41
  finding frauds in the spiritualism community and
• 1:30:46
  exposing them, where the trial license that they were.
• 1:30:49
  Are we talking about more magic people, maybe?
• 1:30:57
  What magician hates ghosts, ghosts people mediums.
• 1:31:00
  Now, I wouldn't. Okay.
• 1:31:01
  So it's, this is not magicians that he kills people today.
• 1:31:06
  So, the two people I'm talking about, you know, the to Harry's
• 1:31:10
  Harry Harry, Houdini? Yeah, your price.
• 1:31:15
  And it occurred to me that I didn't know entirely well into
• 1:31:21
  like holding a seance and or what was considered a seance or
• 1:31:26
  honestly? Like, I've seen people just be
• 1:31:29
  like, all right, we're just sitting together, chilling.
• 1:31:31
  And then I've seen other situations where it's like,
• 1:31:34
  super elaborate, right? Yes.
• 1:31:37
  So, I'm like, well, who's right here?
• 1:31:39
  Do I need like, 57 candles and I need to, like, nobody intentions
• 1:31:44
  as I'm lighting them. Do I need a fancy table?
• 1:31:47
  Do I need a Ouija board? I got on.
• 1:31:48
  Oh yeah. So I wrote this down, I wrote it
• 1:31:54
  down. So I gotta say, okay, so demons
• 1:31:58
  your boy went on a search if they got to tell you about so
• 1:32:03
  seances today. Hey, are you like famous ones?
• 1:32:09
  So what I'm going to do is go over like what I say or else is
• 1:32:13
  what's considered Nerd a seance. There are some famous ones that
• 1:32:17
  I read about. I'm probably not gonna go to in
• 1:32:20
  deep like in depth with them because there's so much going
• 1:32:28
  into. What's a seance is and what it
• 1:32:31
  goes. Almost seances.
• 1:32:33
  So what are we contacted? We contacted ghost.
• 1:32:39
  Some people do. Some people do also, I have this
• 1:32:42
  real like Wonder because you know, I love my TV show about
• 1:32:46
  the cop and the lady. Amy Allan.
• 1:32:49
  It's not that files, you know? I love my dad files.
• 1:32:51
  Yeah. Okay, NEC stuff.
• 1:32:56
  This not just like judeo Christian.
• 1:33:00
  She she sees like some ancient things sometimes I'm like, can
• 1:33:03
  you talk to those things I just thought, you know, like, they
• 1:33:06
  don't want to talk to us, there's not.
• 1:33:08
  Not right. Maybe we don't want to talk to
• 1:33:09
  us. They're like ancient being.
• 1:33:11
  So like just been walking the Earth for like Millennia and
• 1:33:13
  they're like, can y'all just go somewhere, please, you're so
• 1:33:17
  beneath me. No, that's exactly what they're
• 1:33:30
  like. They're like little ants want to
• 1:33:33
  talk to me go away. Oh God.
• 1:33:37
  So if you're new to this end of the podcast, deep dark recesses
• 1:33:42
  of the podcast or to the Paranormal things, you're
• 1:33:46
  probably like, well, you know, WTF is a seance.
• 1:33:50
  Well, I got the answer for you right here.
• 1:33:53
  And according to many of my sources today, See aren't at?
• 1:33:59
  It's like the basic or is basically like an attempt to
• 1:34:02
  communicate with the dead in the afterlife, that's that's it.
• 1:34:08
  So the word Seance come originates from France and it
• 1:34:12
  means to sit or a session. So basically what it's a on,
• 1:34:20
  says you're sitting having a session trying to do it.
• 1:34:26
  I mean I don't say anybody could do it.
• 1:34:34
  Definitely. If you're like sensitive or like
• 1:34:37
  your if you know your medium mediums are mediums.
• 1:34:42
  Are the main people who hold sayings or who lead this Seance.
• 1:34:48
  See that's another thing I have seen people who are not mediums
• 1:34:52
  Do this, like how do you hold the commune with the spirits?
• 1:34:57
  Like how dangerous try just do it.
• 1:35:03
  Okay, the I'll make the rules. I know and no need to hook and
• 1:35:08
  she's do I, but people, if he would do these things, oh God.
• 1:35:16
  So, in the 19th century English, the word Seance referred to a
• 1:35:25
  meeting, a people trying to receive spiritual istic
• 1:35:28
  messages. So, so the meaning of It, kind
• 1:35:32
  of like, stay the same, but like, so you're not talking to
• 1:35:38
  they don't, they don't include the afterlife, they just include
• 1:35:41
  that they want spiritualists acknowledges.
• 1:35:44
  So, It's implied, it's implied, but it's not like, okay.
• 1:35:51
  That's so weird to me. So yeah, this was just like a
• 1:35:56
  meeting of people get together and talk about weird stuff D&D
• 1:36:01
  night for us. I know right baby.
• 1:36:04
  Basically that's like deity for us.
• 1:36:08
  So the Seance always has a medium.
• 1:36:13
  There's always a medium and there.
• 1:36:17
  They are there to basically just channeled the spirit here and,
• 1:36:22
  you know, have helped it communicate with people.
• 1:36:25
  That's something I would never do anyway.
• 1:36:28
  Even if I had the ability, you don't get to take control of my
• 1:36:31
  body? I don't know, boys.
• 1:36:38
  So normally seances are attended by people who want to contact a
• 1:36:43
  loved one or friend say they were like, I don't know, someone
• 1:36:49
  who knew this person. And hey, I remember that one
• 1:36:53
  time. This person had like buried some
• 1:36:55
  treasure in their backyard but I can't find it.
• 1:36:57
  So can you help me? That's just reminds me freaking
• 1:37:04
  episode Courage. The Cowardly Dog, when uses he
• 1:37:09
  hires like, I guess he doesn't hired it.
• 1:37:11
  They bring his medium and he goes to find, like he wants to
• 1:37:16
  find his brothers treasure or whatever the hell or a key to
• 1:37:19
  his brothers lockbox. And that's the only reason why
• 1:37:24
  he liked. He contacted.
• 1:37:25
  You want to talk to his loved one.
• 1:37:26
  He's like, where's the key? So I can get this money.
• 1:37:30
  Awesome. Yep, it smells Eustace.
• 1:37:33
  So yeah. So, they also, you know, people
• 1:37:40
  who like loved ones, they always, they also wanted to make
• 1:37:43
  sure that they're whoever had died had absolutely like passed
• 1:37:48
  over. They were doing well in the
• 1:37:50
  afterlife. There was actually an afterlife
• 1:37:53
  and that they didn't really end up in like, you know, he'll or
• 1:37:57
  something. What happens, what happens when
• 1:37:59
  you find out? I don't know, I don't know.
• 1:38:03
  Think you're probably talking to a demon if your total saying
• 1:38:09
  like, you know, you called Uncle Charles and he's like, what up
• 1:38:12
  call me and you're like oh is it nice and heaven?
• 1:38:15
  And Uncle Travis like haha, I don't know what happens like,
• 1:38:20
  okay. How's how's Purgatory?
• 1:38:22
  How you know, Purgatory neither. Sorry nephew, what is it?
• 1:38:40
  I'm pretty sure that's why. Yes, if you're in heaven, like
• 1:39:02
  we don't let them know that Angels really look like
• 1:39:13
  Monsters. Oh my God.
• 1:39:20
  Gabriel look like and you cannot respond to you as 20.
• 1:39:23
  Have a nice if you don't count his eyes.
• 1:39:28
  Okay. If we don't talk about that eyes
• 1:39:31
  and inhale demons are like the wardens.
• 1:39:34
  They're just like screening or phone calls through like hmm.
• 1:39:37
  This seems like something I can possess.
• 1:39:39
  Let's get this kid. Had it when your daughter
• 1:39:42
  called? Should I tell her that you're
• 1:39:44
  burning in hell that you're getting a pineapple should have
• 1:39:48
  been sure. But from Little Nicky, it is for
• 1:39:52
  Little Nicky. She did the Hitler's hilarious.
• 1:39:58
  But anyway anyway, so you know people trying to communicate
• 1:40:15
  with the dead friends, do whatever forms it to can.
• 1:40:21
  This also Was a time when you know, frogs were pop up a lot of
• 1:40:27
  frogs and he wanted to make like a quick Buck at their lips.
• 1:40:31
  Great table system. Oh my goodness.
• 1:40:34
  Yes, at the expense of other people suffering.
• 1:40:37
  It's like that's. So like they went through so
• 1:40:40
  much to make so much. Like, I just want to talk to my
• 1:40:44
  grandma and then, here it is. Person is, Here's my thought
• 1:40:47
  process, though, like if you're like, listen, I got like a to
• 1:40:53
  say, W minimum. And you like lie to this person
• 1:40:57
  and tell them like how happy like their grandma was so proud
• 1:40:59
  of you. I know she never said it but she
• 1:41:01
  loves you so much. And then like, you're done.
• 1:41:04
  I feel like there's not that much harm in that.
• 1:41:06
  I think the problem was there were people who got like a
• 1:41:08
  dicted going to the sansa's. Like the lady who.
• 1:41:11
  Um, yeah, it's just a mystery house.
• 1:41:13
  Yes. Yes.
• 1:41:15
  Like seeing those people every Sunday and she was probably
• 1:41:18
  paying she do. Definitely wonder-percent, they
• 1:41:20
  were charging for that groups. Groups of mediums coming to her
• 1:41:23
  house. So I feel like in that situation
• 1:41:27
  that sucks but you're just taking advantage of somebody,
• 1:41:29
  but like if you make somebody feel better like one time so
• 1:41:32
  nice. Yeah.
• 1:41:34
  But didn't you have people like, was it, Sir, Arthur Conan Doyle
• 1:41:38
  and he's just like, yeah. All this stuff is real.
• 1:41:42
  These mediums that, uh, told me exactly what I wanted to hear
• 1:41:45
  and stuff like that, and they're just doing like cold readings
• 1:41:47
  and shit. And to him and it's just, like
• 1:41:50
  nothing delighted me more than when Houdini was just like, My
• 1:41:55
  mom didn't speak English. This bitch like he was so he was
• 1:42:00
  like any letter? That should have come from.
• 1:42:03
  My mom should have been in german.
• 1:42:06
  Yes, he's like. When am I mom were English?
• 1:42:08
  He always fluid then. Chairman was like the mom medium
• 1:42:12
  is like, of course. Yeah, because everybody thinks
• 1:42:19
  like nobody else and I love it. Yeah, that was the best.
• 1:42:25
  Always always, stay the Houdini God.
• 1:42:31
  So, you know what? We need to have like a code word
• 1:42:33
  for you and I so that he died. You gotta let me know the code
• 1:42:39
  word somehow. You say you got to get it to me,
• 1:42:43
  somehow. Oh, and then we will have proof
• 1:42:49
  of. Yeah, there you go.
• 1:42:51
  There you go. Well, that's what I'll talk
• 1:42:53
  about that later to vote. Houdini, Seance that.
• 1:42:57
  Remember that from last year? That was a fun time.
• 1:43:02
  Okay, so this is normally how a seance is set up.
• 1:43:06
  Like I'm just going to like stereotype a seance.
• 1:43:09
  Okay. So it's a dimly dimly lit room
• 1:43:13
  of always. But the table when it of course,
• 1:43:18
  maybe maybe chairs, who knows, maybe you want some floor?
• 1:43:23
  You can't lose most definitely candles and you have medium
• 1:43:27
  there to lead Seance and probably there, you know, your
• 1:43:31
  friends, our families is there with you.
• 1:43:35
  Plus some weird-looking guy, who, who's just, who's just
• 1:43:42
  who's just like he looks skeptical and he's just standing
• 1:43:46
  in like a corner and you just waking up.
• 1:43:49
  They always have like septic shock.
• 1:43:51
  No, just a joke. Okay, it's funny that you
• 1:43:55
  laughed because I smiled at the exact moment you start that.
• 1:43:59
  Like before you even laughed I just was like wait a second,
• 1:44:02
  what? Yeah.
• 1:44:04
  Yeah. There's this guy, he looks
• 1:44:06
  skeptical at home or in the corners like wait a second.
• 1:44:08
  Is that is that Harry Houdini? Why are you here?
• 1:44:12
  At this very personal thing and my family are doing a little
• 1:44:17
  side note in Houdini like he was such a star that like it was
• 1:44:21
  just like listen Brittany I want to sit in on The Stance.
• 1:44:25
  You have to contact your mother. I've been like.
• 1:44:27
  Alright cool dude. Yeah.
• 1:44:29
  Yeah. It but remember when Houdini he
• 1:44:32
  did attended séances, he had to go in Disguise sometimes because
• 1:44:37
  mediums were like, I don't want writing this used to do it.
• 1:44:42
  Yeah. God.
• 1:44:44
  And it's like, like he may contact the family and if he's
• 1:44:49
  just like randomly shows up in a disguise, and it's just like,
• 1:44:53
  like, when I was writing this, I was just thinking of like,
• 1:44:55
  someone just like him. Houdini like you're okay.
• 1:44:58
  So you're at Like Sears with somewhere getting to your family
• 1:45:01
  picture taken, right? And and Houdini just walks in on
• 1:45:06
  and off the street and he just like oh don't worry about me.
• 1:45:09
  I'm just here to observe and then I might jump in like a
• 1:45:12
  couple of your pictures to just because that's just like me,
• 1:45:21
  laugh is funny. While you talk to this lady, I'm
• 1:45:43
  gonna hide under the table. I'm gonna, I love that thing.
• 1:45:49
  He did with his knees and like, he could tell when she was
• 1:45:52
  moving her legs. Like, when his Like walk behind.
• 1:45:55
  Yeah basically. Yes don't worry about me.
• 1:45:59
  I'm just you know I'm just I'm just you know don't you sit over
• 1:46:02
  here doing like let's look at like he's playing that game
• 1:46:09
  twister. Yes, she's like.
• 1:46:11
  All right I'm ready. Got one leg over here.
• 1:46:13
  What are by here? A little TV.
• 1:46:20
  Okay, so anyway, at the table to say on starts in the medium you
• 1:46:25
  know they enter this trance-like state that's which allows them
• 1:46:29
  to community to communicate with the spirit work.
• 1:46:32
  So they begin a channel, to Spirit.
• 1:46:35
  And for anybody who is confused channeling, it's not possession.
• 1:46:41
  Channeling is not possession. Channeling is consensual.
• 1:46:48
  As well as possession is not consensual at all.
• 1:46:52
  Absolutely, not consensual. I don't even trust people to
• 1:46:55
  wear a mask right now. I
• 1:47:14
  hate it. I hate it.
• 1:47:16
  Yeah, you know, yeah, like don't touch me.
• 1:47:20
  Don't, you don't have to, like, put your hand in your ghostly
• 1:47:22
  hand, on my shoulder just like, hey, see him across the room and
• 1:47:25
  just shout into this this way when you do I want you to like
• 1:47:29
  knock on the door like 27 times? Yep, you know, and that is
• 1:47:37
  actually like one of the tools that mediums use to get Speers
• 1:47:43
  the communicate with them. Like getting to tap on to Tables
• 1:47:47
  or like something a candle blows out or some like, well-loved
• 1:47:51
  channeling. And the auto writing though.
• 1:47:54
  Yes, alrighty. I mean I guess it happens during
• 1:48:01
  the channel lineup where they know I'm writing.
• 1:48:03
  The ghost is riding through my hand.
• 1:48:04
  Yep, you have to either taking control of my hand.
• 1:48:07
  Hmm. Interesting.
• 1:48:09
  I see okay and you know like the medium, they ask them questions
• 1:48:13
  and they answer them it. It's Clip that goes from, I went
• 1:48:19
  on. It's like you ask them
• 1:48:20
  questions. Like they're different tools
• 1:48:21
  that you use to get your goes to speak to you either like a turn
• 1:48:26
  off your mag light or you know dislike goes off whenever they
• 1:48:32
  want to communicate like yes or no question.
• 1:48:35
  If I worked at like one of those locations and I pretend to be a
• 1:48:38
  medium, every single person would get a letter.
• 1:48:40
  That just took like die die. You're like, I don't know why.
• 1:48:48
  I like I've been on this ghost tour.
• 1:48:50
  Like five different times notices die.
• 1:48:54
  Like they hate me. Now, I realize I'm just gonna
• 1:49:03
  like mess up. Oh, yeah, definitely woman.
• 1:49:09
  Owns this manner. And she talked about murdering
• 1:49:13
  ghost her entire life, and I'll just be like in the corner like,
• 1:49:19
  yelling, do the radio, you suck, just fucking everything up.
• 1:49:29
  Yeah, yeah stupid-ass bitch singing singing rap songs is
• 1:49:41
  like wait a second. Is this EVP say I like big butts
• 1:49:46
  and I cannot lie. What is a wop?
• 1:49:55
  They're like apparently the ghosts that there's some hoses.
• 1:49:58
  In this house, maybe we should get out of this house.
• 1:50:02
  Ha ha ha. Oh my God.
• 1:50:07
  The best part is like, in the EVPs, like, they don't hear,
• 1:50:10
  right? And so like they'd be like, I
• 1:50:13
  don't, I don't understand. I can't understand what you
• 1:50:15
  saying. There's what in the house Shoes
• 1:50:21
  shoes. There's some shoes in this
• 1:50:24
  house. Oh my god.
• 1:50:28
  Oh now some mediums. Some mediums did get fancy with
• 1:50:33
  it and they started producing some something called ectoplasm.
• 1:50:38
  Oh no. Yeah and that those were fun
• 1:50:42
  times when one what was it made out of Brian.
• 1:50:47
  Um, sometimes. Well, if for a frauds, they were
• 1:50:53
  found not to be like, made out of cheese cloth and stuff like
• 1:50:56
  that, like, she's cool. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, that
• 1:51:02
  they. Okay.
• 1:51:03
  So when was I think it was like when Houdini did the The contest
• 1:51:10
  for like, like, stop me with your spiritualism shit, right?
• 1:51:14
  So he just like, scoop it up and put it in his mouth.
• 1:51:19
  No no, no. They actually like head labs and
• 1:51:22
  stuff like that would be okay. Stuff on site.
• 1:51:25
  Was he like yo this is some cheesecloth cheesecloth.
• 1:51:33
  I don't understand how okay, I so yeah.
• 1:51:40
  They would give like they would give the median, not the
• 1:51:43
  mediums. They would give like Harry
• 1:51:44
  Houdini and or Harry prize for whoever like was like doing the
• 1:51:50
  doing the investigation on them they would give them like a
• 1:51:52
  sample of this ectoplasm and they go back to your lab and
• 1:51:55
  test it and stuff like that. And then like this is this is
• 1:51:59
  she's cool so I Googled it. Yeah ready for this and on the
• 1:52:06
  listing someone has made a tiny little go.
• 1:52:10
  Out of the cheesecloth and he's holding a sign.
• 1:52:13
  That says, here's my thing. Like I don't understand, this is
• 1:52:19
  just fabric. How is this ectoplasm?
• 1:52:21
  I think of ectoplasm, I think of Ghostbusters.
• 1:52:23
  Well, who well, they would put other things like you put things
• 1:52:27
  in it. Like the cheese cloth for cover
• 1:52:30
  yellow eggs. Whatever they could find.
• 1:52:33
  That was slimy. So like egg.
• 1:52:35
  White is pretty slow. Yeah.
• 1:52:39
  So they would do stuff like that cheese cloth.
• 1:52:41
  I was like, she's focused even gooey, you know it's just
• 1:52:46
  something they could put in something that you put stuff
• 1:52:48
  inside of but yeah you did also mention like automatic writing.
• 1:52:54
  That's also something that Spirit mediums use as well.
• 1:52:58
  Oh yeah, that creeps me out. yeah, so other than automatic
• 1:53:04
  writing mediums mediums. They have other tools they can
• 1:53:12
  use to communicate with the dead, okay?
• 1:53:20
  And like automatic writing. It's basically, you know, the
• 1:53:25
  other parameter channeling the spirit and it's either like
• 1:53:28
  they're writing on a piece of paper.
• 1:53:31
  Like just for now. Everybody in the league there.
• 1:53:33
  Is there asking questions to the spirit?
• 1:53:35
  And that's basically yeah. The spirit is control your hand.
• 1:53:42
  Or there's this there's this this cute little game that's
• 1:53:47
  been out for, I don't know. Like hundreds is like 100
• 1:53:52
  concerts a year. I think or something that's like
• 1:53:54
  that. I'll need a spear upward.
• 1:53:57
  It's the talking, they Corner talking board as well or as it's
• 1:54:02
  more, commonly known Ouija board.
• 1:54:06
  Not a fan. This is how they would get their
• 1:54:10
  answers when they wanted to let me talking to Spirits.
• 1:54:16
  So if you don't know what a Ouija board is a Ouija board,
• 1:54:21
  it's a basically, first of all, I'm shaking my head at you if
• 1:54:25
  you don't know what a Ouija board is.
• 1:54:30
  But I'll also explain what it is.
• 1:54:33
  It's really like a flat board and on it is written the
• 1:54:38
  alphabet English. Alphabet, I'm not sure if they,
• 1:54:41
  I didn't, I should have looked this up.
• 1:54:43
  If they had like, we drew Ouija boards for like, those are
• 1:54:47
  countries and stuff like that. I'm pretty sure other countries
• 1:54:49
  are smart enough. Not to use, like, Ouija boards,
• 1:54:53
  or not to make something like this to communicate with the
• 1:54:55
  spirit were. But here we are an So it has the
• 1:55:03
  English alphabet A to Z on it and then it also has numbers is
• 1:55:08
  029 on it and in each of the upper Corners it's a yes or no
• 1:55:15
  and I think in the middle of the top it says goodbye.
• 1:55:19
  Yeah or at the bottom says goodbye every.
• 1:55:22
  Yeah the bottom says goodbye and like like one side will say yes
• 1:55:27
  the other side say no. There's letters in the middle.
• 1:55:29
  And numbers. Yes, yes.
• 1:55:33
  Then it also includes a I can hold on the plant chat it
• 1:55:39
  includes the planchette for you to highlight the letters or
• 1:55:44
  whatever. Answer was yes or no or numbers.
• 1:55:47
  So they have that. Like I said it's also referred
• 1:55:52
  to as a talking board I call it the don't fuck with the board
• 1:55:59
  myself because I don't fuck with that board at all.
• 1:56:05
  Since you never know like if we're actually contacting a
• 1:56:09
  human Spirit or possibly a demon and just remember when you're
• 1:56:16
  using a Ouija board just you know say goodbye and if they
• 1:56:19
  don't say goodbye back to and say I said goodbye, so make sure
• 1:56:22
  you say goodbye. I don't know, like I shouldn't.
• 1:56:25
  I also should have looked up what happens when you say
• 1:56:27
  goodbye it. Ain't there like no, I think.
• 1:56:36
  And talking to ghosts and stuff. They?
• 1:56:44
  You close the circle. Yeah, it's kind of like if I'm
• 1:56:48
  on the phone with you. I'm I said, goodbye click
• 1:56:53
  basically, if you can be honest. Yeah you can be on the other end
• 1:56:59
  but I've decided to like, stop this, we're done here, is this
• 1:57:02
  terminated sorry sir? Well yeah, like Ouija boards.
• 1:57:07
  They were popularly. They were made Popular by Hasbro
• 1:57:13
  and like they were supposed to be like some type of like just
• 1:57:16
  they were supposed to be just like a basic like parlor trick
• 1:57:19
  type of thing and then people actually started taking it more
• 1:57:23
  seriously and like Leaving that to the cult and stuff like that.
• 1:57:29
  And that's where you get the best abdon by the satanic Panic.
• 1:57:36
  The seventies know, you gotta love that.
• 1:57:39
  I love that era. It's my favorite error.
• 1:57:43
  Everything was the devil. Everything was the devil's
• 1:57:45
  fucking metal. I loved it.
• 1:57:50
  Oh my God. But yeah.
• 1:57:53
  It's a parlor trick but you know something and I'll get into that
• 1:57:59
  as well as her eyes talk about this other thing.
• 1:58:03
  So I I wrote down like Bloody Mary and like handyman stuff
• 1:58:06
  like that. But I'm like, is that like, I
• 1:58:10
  mean, it's like a slumber party type of thing.
• 1:58:12
  Is that more like a summoning ritual for like, like, you're
• 1:58:15
  trying to like summon somebody instead of like trying to
• 1:58:19
  communicate with them because you're trying to like, yeah,
• 1:58:21
  it's like those are not saying Take situation.
• 1:58:24
  Yeah. But There is a game / challenge
• 1:58:33
  that popped up, like six years ago.
• 1:58:35
  Do you remember the Charlie Charlie challenge?
• 1:58:41
  No. Okay, yeah, wait.
• 1:58:45
  Wasn't that like writer who said there's that kid.
• 1:58:48
  But he saw in his house and sleeping.
• 1:58:50
  He had asked the kid how he died and I was the one rule.
• 1:58:53
  You weren't supposed to ask, he's like, taking pictures all
• 1:58:56
  over his house and setting up videos and things.
• 1:58:59
  Is that the guy with chocolate or possibly, possibly.
• 1:59:04
  I think the kid might have been named Charlie.
• 1:59:06
  I don't know if they had another was challenge associated with
• 1:59:08
  this. It was very good moment in
• 1:59:10
  Creepypasta history. Yes.
• 1:59:12
  Yes, sir. It was as well as with it Momo.
• 1:59:17
  I love the Mosaic because it was don't like the most thing.
• 1:59:21
  It was just a really cool statue and then they like tried to
• 1:59:23
  scare kids. Okay.
• 1:59:25
  Yes. That thing but then they had
• 1:59:27
  like the Moment Like it Like Moma was on WhatsApp.
• 1:59:32
  That was just somebody being a jerk.
• 1:59:34
  Yeah but yet it was on WhatsApp and like they would tell you
• 1:59:39
  things and she liked that it was just a weird thing to happen.
• 1:59:44
  But no. Okay.
• 1:59:45
  So Charlie Charlie challenge at its base based, basically
• 1:59:50
  raising you get like a piece of paper, right and on your right
• 1:59:56
  it for time. So let's get on a paper.
• 2:00:00
  You write yes and no thing, right?
• 2:00:05
  No, yes, no, yes, I think and that's how it was done.
• 2:00:10
  And You get two pencils. And you're like, just cross them
• 2:00:17
  over each other. Like we have one pencil
• 2:00:20
  balancing over the Elder one and whichever way that pencil went.
• 2:00:25
  Was this Charlie person? Answering your question.
• 2:00:31
  And for some reason this was believed to be a demon named
• 2:00:37
  Charlie. I'm not even sure why a demon
• 2:00:40
  would be named Charlie but So, this challenge actually
• 2:00:53
  originated in I guess. The Spanish-speaking countries
• 2:01:01
  and it was very it was just called a pencil game.
• 2:01:04
  So it's like a Magic 8-Ball. Yeah, so this High children.
• 2:01:14
  Oh Hi, anyway. Um so like people were
• 2:01:24
  interested in it because it had crossed language barriers, and
• 2:01:30
  like, it was just like this, this type of game just like
• 2:01:33
  connected everybody together. For like, I don't know for like
• 2:01:37
  the few couple months that it was popular on YouTube.
• 2:01:45
  And best. Because that's that's usually
• 2:01:47
  that's where I first saw on YouTube.
• 2:01:49
  Was someone doing the Charlie Charlie Challenge?
• 2:01:51
  And they were saying Charlie, Charlie blah, blah blah.
• 2:01:55
  Something something, how'd you die?
• 2:01:58
  Or who's going to am I going to die?
• 2:02:01
  Yes, no, I get that. The the the ritualistic aspect
• 2:02:06
  of it is the writing on the paper or whatnot, but it's like
• 2:02:09
  that, like crosses over into being like a tulpa.
• 2:02:14
  Look enough people believe a thing that becomes real.
• 2:02:17
  Yeah. Okay.
• 2:02:18
  Okay. Yes.
• 2:02:19
  Yeah. I feel like that kind of like,
• 2:02:20
  Charlie becomes the the taupe of they're not necessarily You
• 2:02:25
  should do a whole episode on that.
• 2:02:26
  That's got some very interesting.
• 2:02:28
  It's from the list. Yeah, that's right.
• 2:02:32
  That's how I thought. I feel like Bloody Mary and
• 2:02:34
  Candyman. Those are all cope with to.
• 2:02:36
  Yeah. Like millions of people were all
• 2:02:37
  doing, you know, the flickering light thing.
• 2:02:40
  At the same time, a lot of things could be topaz, but we
• 2:02:45
  will talk about that on top of the episode.
• 2:02:47
  Awesome. I think that's a really great.
• 2:02:50
  Yes, paranormal Concepts. I was doing research on that
• 2:02:55
  actually the other day and I was like, this is so much, just
• 2:02:57
  there's so much goes into it. I watched a movie on Hulu, like
• 2:03:02
  a called hookah lives. Oh, I love, I love that.
• 2:03:05
  Yes. And I was like so surprised when
• 2:03:09
  they were like at the table and I was like you're right, it is
• 2:03:12
  there's a fucking tool only in the movie it actually has
• 2:03:15
  catastrophic You know consequences.
• 2:03:21
  You didn't watch the first puka movie yet though.
• 2:03:23
  The one? Where the guy plays the actual
• 2:03:26
  point? Yeah yeah.
• 2:03:27
  Yeah. I saw that one.
• 2:03:28
  I was like, oh this is kind of fucked up.
• 2:03:30
  I was looking for like, horror Christmas movies.
• 2:03:33
  Recently on break But yeah, it's hopeless will get in the tour
• 2:03:40
  bus. So with games like the Charlie,
• 2:03:46
  Charlie Challenge, and, and Ouija board, there's this thing
• 2:03:51
  that kind of explains how they work, or how do I know you're
• 2:03:57
  gonna talk about? I forget how you say it, but I
• 2:03:59
  know it is. I'm going to try to pronounce
• 2:04:03
  his Idol motor as an idol motor phenomenon.
• 2:04:07
  Yeah, yes. So I had to Wiki this and see
• 2:04:11
  what the fuck. That meant anything.
• 2:04:13
  Because for people who believe in spiritual stuff, right?
• 2:04:16
  Yeah. I feel like the ritual aspects
• 2:04:18
  of using these toys are more important than like the, the
• 2:04:23
  movement of the planchette and that totally works with this
• 2:04:25
  concept. You know, she's that your
• 2:04:28
  subconscious is moving. Yep, that's basically.
• 2:04:31
  It is your like, I guess it's like you want an answer and you
• 2:04:37
  yourself who's holding the planchette or like the paper
• 2:04:41
  like that paper have two pencils are on balancing that you kind
• 2:04:44
  of like breeze into that direction or you like Make your
• 2:04:49
  hand move into the. I've read about this before and
• 2:04:51
  like they say that like the more people are together.
• 2:04:55
  The more you feel like you have less control.
• 2:04:59
  Yes. Yes, I can see that.
• 2:05:01
  You're not doing it. You think that you're not doing
• 2:05:03
  and everybody thinks they're not doing it?
• 2:05:05
  And together, you're kind of all collectively.
• 2:05:06
  Hoping something happens. Yep.
• 2:05:09
  And it kind of make it happen. And then you're like, who's
• 2:05:12
  moving? The planchette?
• 2:05:13
  Are you moving it? You're doing it.
• 2:05:14
  And I'm like, no, I'm not going. That's the funny part was doing
• 2:05:17
  it. All our people are moving it
• 2:05:20
  that you don't realize it. Yes, you're all moving it.
• 2:05:23
  Yeah, for me though I feel like they'll do virtual nature of
• 2:05:26
  stuff. Like I feel like repetitively
• 2:05:27
  doing certain things over and over again.
• 2:05:30
  That's where I feel like there's a lot of power.
• 2:05:32
  Oh yeah absolutely. Yeah you know you if you wake up
• 2:05:35
  every day and you talk to yourself in the mirror and you
• 2:05:38
  tell yourself positive things that that's a ritual and that
• 2:05:41
  has power over you you are meeting up consistently with the
• 2:05:45
  same group of people and you're all thinking about the same
• 2:05:47
  stuff. You're doing the same ritual
• 2:05:49
  over and over again. I feel like there's power in
• 2:05:51
  that and it's not a good thing. When you know you're sitting
• 2:05:55
  here like we're going to be the demon like okay if you're trying
• 2:05:59
  to contact a demon no it's not a good thing at all, created a
• 2:06:03
  ritual now based around something dark and I don't feel
• 2:06:08
  like the board itself is actually doing anything.
• 2:06:10
  No, no, it's just like something.
• 2:06:13
  You should really. I feel like the powers and the
• 2:06:15
  people and their connection to Spirit.
• 2:06:18
  Quality and stuff like that. Absolutely 100%.
• 2:06:21
  That's yeah, I love that. Yes.
• 2:06:24
  Absolutely. But yeah, I know, that was so
• 2:06:29
  interesting like ages ago, I was like there's a real physical
• 2:06:33
  like you're like your body has impulses.
• 2:06:35
  Yeah. Separate from your you knowing
• 2:06:39
  that you're doing It's wow. How cool is wrong?
• 2:06:45
  so, I talked about the tools. Of course, I want to talk about
• 2:06:51
  people who've actually, I don't know, use these tools, so, and I
• 2:06:55
  can't talk about people who use these tools when I'm talking
• 2:06:58
  about people. The two people who may have
• 2:07:01
  actually started this, whole fucking spiritualism stuff and
• 2:07:06
  that's the fox sisters. Yeah, it's a haven't Renee's
• 2:07:11
  right now. Of course we're gonna say is so
• 2:07:15
  mad. No.
• 2:07:19
  I love will reign and I will not stand for lowering slander.
• 2:07:23
  No, no no, no slandering will rain today, but they were both
• 2:07:28
  teenagers. Won't one was a teenager just
• 2:07:31
  was like Prix team so Margaret Fox and are they called her
• 2:07:36
  Maggie? And she was 15 and then Kate Fox
• 2:07:39
  and she was 11. So I have this story had to stir
• 2:07:50
  goodness. So yeah.
• 2:07:52
  So, I guess this there's a story behind how they started doing
• 2:07:57
  their spoofs through medium work.
• 2:08:00
  And so Story Goes that For like a week or so their household
• 2:08:09
  with their parents and stuff. They had just been experiencing
• 2:08:13
  some random knocking and like a lot of noises and bangs and
• 2:08:19
  stuff like going on at night and one night.
• 2:08:26
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 2:08:27
  One night Kate. She's like, I want to talk to
• 2:08:31
  this thing, whatever. I'm going to just talk and see
• 2:08:34
  if something answers me. and so she begins asking questions, you
• 2:08:42
  know, just random as questions and seeing if the thing would
• 2:08:46
  respond by knocking, she's like, if you're like a person or a
• 2:08:53
  man, if you're like a man knock like Twice done.
• 2:08:58
  Yeah like twice. If you died as like if you were
• 2:09:04
  murdered or something knock once and stuff like that and then
• 2:09:07
  like this thing would like knock back for her.
• 2:09:10
  And People in, you know, people caught wind of this, in the
• 2:09:18
  neighborhood, just like what's the word?
• 2:09:22
  Word is she just like here in the knocks of her house?
• 2:09:27
  No. - sister, I don't know, because that would suck.
• 2:09:34
  If your sister is like messing you up.
• 2:09:38
  It would suck those look so much.
• 2:09:42
  So so her popularity grew, of course, people from the
• 2:09:48
  neighborhood, heard about it. They'd come over to her house to
• 2:09:51
  hear these knockings. And in here to say, knocking an
• 2:09:54
  inch like answering her questions with these knocks, it
• 2:09:57
  were these noises. And there's a soul like oh my
• 2:10:00
  God. Like you're you're fantastic.
• 2:10:03
  You're a medium? Oh my God, like they know what?
• 2:10:06
  Obviously any homes. Those media inspector?
• 2:10:08
  I least. I don't think so not in the
• 2:10:09
  beginning. But that they like Katie and I
• 2:10:15
  don't know how Maggie got involved in this, but Maggie
• 2:10:20
  Maggie ended up, actually being like the manager for Katie like
• 2:10:25
  okay yeah, so They were so popular.
• 2:10:33
  I read this okay? They were they were popular.
• 2:10:35
  They were used in to seances. Okay well to see it.
• 2:10:38
  Two famous seances and they were both done by Presidential women.
• 2:10:44
  So first first the first lady's, okay.
• 2:10:50
  The first one was look it up. Jane, Pierce, she had, she had
• 2:11:03
  hired a fox sisters to hold a seance at the White House.
• 2:11:10
  And I think this was for, I guess her going to get her sons
• 2:11:17
  and she wanted to communicate with them and and they she it
• 2:11:24
  says that they didn't, she didn't give people like what
• 2:11:28
  happened. She didn't give them, you know,
• 2:11:32
  her reaction to their Seance or whatnot because well for one it
• 2:11:37
  was White House and it's probably confidential what goes
• 2:11:39
  on in the White House. And to, this is another reason I
• 2:11:45
  tell you that later. But another person another woman
• 2:11:48
  who Another first lady who hired the fox sisters was Mary Todd
• 2:11:55
  Lincoln. Oh yeah.
• 2:11:58
  She hired them to hold a seance. I think, first it was for Not
• 2:12:07
  not Abe. It wasn't for a bat first, but I
• 2:12:12
  think she had Sons as well, so she's trying to contact her sons
• 2:12:15
  and, and, and then she was trying to contact a gene and
• 2:12:20
  then. Yeah, I was like, that's yeah,
• 2:12:24
  yeah, that's sad. But, um, She also would not
• 2:12:33
  speak on it but on their Seance but she was like, she wasn't
• 2:12:37
  very impressed and you know, stuff like that she wasn't very
• 2:12:44
  so, okay. I'll tell you why later on down
• 2:12:49
  the line. Like after you going to do these
• 2:12:52
  two girls are, you know, you're famous for being mediums and
• 2:12:56
  stuff like that. And Zay.
• 2:13:03
  Want to, I think it's up Maggie, Maggie comes out to the public
• 2:13:06
  and she's like, hey guys, just want to let you know, like she
• 2:13:10
  just has her Her filming her, YouTube apology video.
• 2:13:15
  I just want to let you know that me and my sister actually had
• 2:13:18
  been faking this the whole time and they're like well how'd you
• 2:13:24
  do it? And she's like well when Kate
• 2:13:27
  was talking to people were there like responding to these knocks.
• 2:13:31
  I just be built like somewhere. Library banging like apples on a
• 2:13:34
  shoe strings and stuff like that against the wall I said it, it
• 2:13:40
  was her sister. I didn't want to give you the
• 2:13:46
  satisfaction. I have it now sir.
• 2:13:51
  I was right. Right.
• 2:13:54
  But yeah. So you know, after after all of
• 2:13:59
  these hearings is they had done and stuff like that
• 2:14:01
  communicating with people it was just Maggie behind the wall.
• 2:14:06
  Would apples and Kate just like going along with it.
• 2:14:10
  Now here's my thing. Nobody went.
• 2:14:13
  Yo, where's the other girl? Why is she not here?
• 2:14:20
  Oh my God. Oh my God.
• 2:14:22
  And and this is like, so some people believe this and some
• 2:14:26
  people are like no no, they were like they were course to like
• 2:14:31
  saying this because for one they were alcoholics and he died of
• 2:14:36
  alcoholism and people were like, well, someone had bribed them
• 2:14:42
  with alcohol to get them to say this.
• 2:14:46
  And that's like they The said this stuff.
• 2:14:52
  And I don't I mean I could see that happening.
• 2:14:56
  Someone like like what does what you just told me today with this
• 2:15:01
  horrible story? You told me today, somebody
• 2:15:04
  taking advantage of people in their addictions and other
• 2:15:11
  people. Yeah.
• 2:15:14
  Yeah. It's it was terrible other
• 2:15:17
  people were like, yeah, I guess he is that.
• 2:15:19
  Like I could see that they faked it because they're two or two
• 2:15:24
  girls, there, two teenagers and they're just bored in the house.
• 2:15:28
  And then the house board and like, this is like Jeff.
• 2:15:33
  Come on goose. Like obviously that little girl
• 2:15:35
  had just made up Jeff and was just talking to Jeff the
• 2:15:40
  Mongoose through the walls, her little imaginary friend.
• 2:15:43
  She is made up. But yeah.
• 2:15:50
  Also, I did want to touch on this Houdini say I'm staying
• 2:15:54
  which is still funny as fuck. I love the fact that he know.
• 2:16:02
  So apparently he didn't only give his wife a password.
• 2:16:06
  He gave like close friends to him a password as well, like
• 2:16:10
  different passwords for each people and like nobody has
• 2:16:15
  gotten the password at all. None of these mediums Well, you
• 2:16:19
  go and you have just like that's that's that's why I like
• 2:16:25
  nobody's real. And it's like I think the last
• 2:16:28
  one they did it last year. There's one that it 2020
• 2:16:31
  actually. They didn't want to 2020 is
• 2:16:34
  virtual it. A virtual Seance was for
• 2:16:37
  Houdini. Oh my God.
• 2:16:40
  Yeah. Um, what else, what else?
• 2:16:44
  I also want to touch on like other frauds, like, I don't
• 2:16:47
  know, like, John Edwards and Sylvia Browne.
• 2:16:50
  How they, what they do is they'll be a brown is the one
• 2:16:56
  who Said that the girls who were out of what's this mean
• 2:17:01
  Castillo. Yeah, that guy.
• 2:17:03
  Yeah, that. Yep, that they were dead girls
• 2:17:06
  that were dead. Yes, because I remember the one
• 2:17:08
  girl said she was watching the episode.
• 2:17:12
  That's where Sylvia Browne said to her mom.
• 2:17:15
  Your daughter's already dead. Yeah.
• 2:17:17
  And just, wow. This is wild.
• 2:17:20
  That was her biggest fail. A little time.
• 2:17:22
  That ended her career. I feel like you're a member.
• 2:17:25
  I think you're right, because she used to be on So shows and
• 2:17:28
  everything too. She's everywhere.
• 2:17:29
  She's always on the month, he'll show.
• 2:17:31
  Yes, I mean, all those guys. All they do is just cold reader
• 2:17:36
  are. That's all you do.
• 2:17:37
  That's all you do. And that's when those are, I'm
• 2:17:40
  like, in a room, full of, like, 200 people.
• 2:17:45
  Someone's experience a lot. Yeah, it's starting with the
• 2:17:48
  letter j. There's got to be a lot of
• 2:17:52
  people who've experienced a loss, and it starts the letter
• 2:17:55
  j. I'd say, yeah.
• 2:17:57
  And then the person will be like, oh yeah, well my grandma's
• 2:18:00
  little name is Janet or they were Dave, look around the room
• 2:18:04
  and see did it. Yeah, it's Janet.
• 2:18:06
  I can, I can feel a Jedi, feel a strong attraction to you.
• 2:18:10
  For some reason, this Janet I saw a great one online.
• 2:18:14
  We're like the guys like pulled up the idea that like whoever
• 2:18:19
  they were talking to was like cursing at them and the lady was
• 2:18:22
  like, that's definitely on my grandpa, she's like listen.
• 2:18:25
  Oh, right. Yeah.
• 2:18:26
  She was alive. She wasn't honest with you.
• 2:18:28
  But right now she's saying some stuff and I was like, bra, gasps
• 2:18:32
  lightly me better, yes, to Gaslight the person is say that
• 2:18:37
  Grandma is calling people names or you just go.
• 2:18:41
  You know what, maybe it's not your grandma.
• 2:18:42
  Maybe it's somebody else. Grandma's not angry right now
• 2:18:46
  like to go there, just to go that direction.
• 2:18:49
  Wow, yeah, sometimes mediums are just fucking scum.
• 2:18:54
  Yeah, that's what I think this is.
• 2:18:56
  I think John Oliver covered it like a couple years ago and very
• 2:18:59
  good episode. You did about, you know, just
• 2:19:03
  scamming for people out of my way sucks.
• 2:19:05
  Yeah, that's all I'm going to talk about today or mediums are
• 2:19:11
  or seances actually, but yeah. That's where I got.
• 2:19:18
  Hope you guys enjoy. Thanks so much for being part of
• 2:19:21
  art. Well, this, if you're watching
• 2:19:22
  good luck, because I got hot. I took off my hat.
• 2:19:25
  I put it back on, like, I'm over here being crazy for getting
• 2:19:28
  them on camera. I also forgot for a second, my
• 2:19:33
  facial expressions. I hope you guys enjoy those
• 2:19:35
  facial expressions but I hope. Yeah.
• 2:19:37
  Yeah, if you're still listening thank you so much for listening.
• 2:19:40
  Like roughly like 5,000 people last year.
• 2:19:42
  Consistently listen, all year long, that's incredible.
• 2:19:48
  The merchants out. We got our thick today is the
• 2:19:51
  Booty Man of West, Virginia shirts.
• 2:19:54
  And hoodies out today. The hoodies we got, we got
• 2:19:59
  beanies, you got mugs, you got t-shirts and everything, except
• 2:20:03
  for underwear. It's give us a mineral that I
• 2:20:06
  don't know about that. It's so great to be back in the
• 2:20:12
  saddle and telling you all the stories about how they got
• 2:20:15
  caught. And And also you know having fun
• 2:20:19
  with Brian. I missed.
• 2:20:20
  It was only a couple weeks. We were gone but I missed it.
• 2:20:22
  Yeah, same same, it's good. It is good to be back but I got
• 2:20:26
  a nice A little Second Wind here.
• 2:20:28
  Yeah thank you so much for listening.
• 2:20:30
  We love our. I couldn't be happier.
• 2:20:34
  Like I said, one thing I said I'm picked up yesterday I was
• 2:20:37
  like 20 21 was the best year of my life so I was like there's
• 2:20:41
  even more work to do but I could be happy to do it.
• 2:20:44
  Absolutely I feel the same good night.