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Legally Brunette Presents: ‘Til Death Do Us Part - Susan & Josh Powell · Legally Brunette

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to an episode of Legally Brunette presents
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Till Death Do Us Part. I'll be your host, Emily
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Simpson with my sidekick Shane Shane, So till Death Do
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Us Part. The whole concept is basically, when we were
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: talking about cases and going through true crime, it's just
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: a reoccurring theme that we have lots of cases out
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: there of husband's killing wives, wives killing husbands, so we thought,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: why not separate them out anyway. So this case, we're
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: going to go over the Josh Powell Susan Powell case.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: And if you haven't heard of it, I think it's
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: one of those cases that stayed with me for years.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: I find myself thinking about it just randomly.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: One because it's unsolved.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: It's unsolved, I mean.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: And two because we lived in Utah at the time
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: that this took place.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: We did. So Shane and I were married back in
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: two thousand and nine and we lived in Utah together,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: and this case takes place in two thousand and nine
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: in Utah. So when Shane and I were living in
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Utah together, we were actually following this case in real
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: time on the news every night where Susan Powell she disappeared,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: and we're going to go through this case because the
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: layers in this case, the players, all the people involved,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: the tragedy of it just within this family and case
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: is just it's unreal. So anyway, all right, let's go
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: through it. So well, we know he did it, we
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: know he did it, we know he did but it was.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Never really well, he was never legally charged or anything.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: So right, we'll get through it.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: So Susan Cox Powell was a Utah mother of two,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: and she disappeared. This is back in December of two
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: thousand and nine under suspicious circumstances. Shortly after she vanished,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: her husband, Josh Powell, was named a person of interest,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: but was never charged in her disappearance, and her body
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: to this day has still never been found. In February
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: of twenty twelve, during a court ordered supervised visit, Josh
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: killed his two young sons before taking his own life
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: and a house explosion. The case later led to a
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: wrongful death lawsuit against Washington's child welfare agency was Susan's parents,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: arguing that the state failed to protect the children. And
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: we're going to get into that a little bit more as.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: We go through this now, we're going to order.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but now let's go back and let's just go
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: through this timeline. So in April of two thousand and one,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Susan and Josh are married. So Susan and Josh were
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: both members of the LDS Church. And I was also thinking,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: what also seems to be a reoccurring theme is that
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: a lot of people within the Mormon community or the
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: LDS Church keep coming up in our podcast. So we
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: talked about well our last episode just on regular Legally
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Brunette was Elizabeth Smart, which was an LDS family, and
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: actually Elizabeth Smart's father, Ed became very close with the
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Powell family, and not the Powell family, the Cox family,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: not the Powell family, the Cox family.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Well, and who are who's the Cox family?
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: That's Susan Cox, Powell's father mother. He became close with
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: them because she had disappeared.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Parents of the wife that.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Was killed, Yes, well or disappeared.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Friendly and friends with the Smart family.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Well with the father Ed Smart. So Susan and Josh
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: were both members of the LDS Church. They met at
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: a church function for single adults. They were engaged just
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: a couple months after meeting, and they got married back
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and one, when Susan was only nineteen
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: years old and Josh was twenty five years old. Okay,
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: first of all, let me say just a word of advice.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: I remember my grandmother saying this to me when I
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: was younger, that you should date someone in all four
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: seasons before marrying them. She only dated Josh for two months.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: I don't think two months is enough time to really
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: fully grasp someone's personality.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: You should. You should date them where you get to
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: see all of their personalities.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Right, you should see exactly, That's what I'm saying, at
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: least a year. I felt like that was the advice.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: It's like all four seasons one year. You should at
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: least that should be the minimum.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: And did you do that? Well?
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: I knew you.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: For I only saw a couple of your personalities.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Right, Well, now you know them all.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: There's a lot I think, do I?
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know. I turned fifty. Who knows what
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: this year will bring?
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: So our fifty What do you mean you turned?
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: I did? I turned fifty a couple of weeks ago.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: So you're currently fifty in your fifties, so we will
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: see what personality you get infty In my fifties. Yes.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: For a brief period following their wedding, Josh and Susan
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: lived with Josh's father, Stephen Powell, in South Hill, Washington.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Now Stephen Powell is the father and the father in law,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: the father of Josh Powell and Anne becomes a huge
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: player in this whole case because he's such a creepy,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: weirdo pedophile. But we will get into that. The pals
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: had two sons together, Charles born on January nineteenth of
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: two thousand and five and Bryden born on January second
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: of two thousand and seven, so the marriage starts to decline.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: By the summer of two thousand and eight, Susan and
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Josh Pal's marriage had significantly worsened. Josh was described as
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: exerting strong control over Susan and their money, despite Susan
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: being the main supporter of the family. I think, well,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: I don't think. I mean I read and researched, and
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Josh I don't think ever had a career. I know
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: he tried to be a real estate agent.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: That he he succeeded, and he did well in job interviews. Oh,
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: because he was very charming and you know whatever. So
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: he would do well in interviews, and then when he
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: got on the job site, he sucked. He didn't want
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: to work. He would try to figure out ways to
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: not work. He would try to figure out ways to
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: make more money without working, or get raises or complains.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: So he so maybe his two months dating was the same.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: It was a job interview.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Oh he did well during those two much and.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: Then once they got married, didn't she You know, he
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: starts to kind of be more controlling or whatever, less
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: of a you know, prince.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: I also I also believe he tried to be a
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: real estate agent, and see, in order to be a
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: successful real estate agent, that takes a lot of self motivation.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: You're working for yourself. You're the one you have to
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: be out there and anyway, so that didn't work out, right,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: So Susan, this is back in two thousand and eight,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Susan had a consultation with a divorce lawyer and he
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: recommended that she make a videotape to document herself. The
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: video has since become available to the public. This is
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: the video that she made and then she put into
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: a safe deposit box. So the video begins with Susan saying,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: this is me it's July twenty ninth, two thousand and eight.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Covering all my bases, making sure that if anything happens
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: to me or my family or all of us, that
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: our assets are documented. This is what she says in
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: the video.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Why would you at that point if you have I mean,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: she documented because she thinks her husband's going to hurt her.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Well. Also, in the safe deposit box, not only was
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: there the video, but she also had like a handwritten
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: note and a will and testament talking about how if
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: anything happens to me, it's not an accident.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: No, it was likely not to me. It's likely to
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: do to my husband. Even if it's an accident, it
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: was probably him.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: So she's kind of even clearing, like my break lines
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: aren't working.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: It's be goud of him, right, And that is what
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: what you just said.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: And let's just talk about that she and sleep with
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: them and make them dinner.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: No, that's what I'm saying. When you suspect someone that
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: you're married to could possibly harm you, and to the
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: point where you have a safe deposit box that he
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: doesn't know about and you're putting videos and notes in it,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: why are you not leaving? I mean I don't want
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: a victim blame at all, because she's clearly the victim
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: in all of this. And I don't know. I mean,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of conversation around him about domestic
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: abuse and control and things like that, so I don't
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: know psychologically what kind of control he had over her.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: But if you are legitimately scared in a relationship, why
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: are you not leaving?
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: She has no options, maybe finances.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Susan told her friends that she wanted to try to
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: save the marriage before leaving. I do think that she
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: did have a very strong faith in the LDS religion,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: and I know that family, marriage, children, all those things
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: come first, right you know you're ID.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: They do and they don't for you.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: That's true, But I'm talking about the teachings the religion.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: What is what is what is hammered into her head
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: is maybe she was not even concerned of her own safety.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: It was more about I made a commitment before God,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I married this.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Maybe she's hopeful that it can just be improved in
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: instead is splitting up. Maybe she's trying to fix it,
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: but you and I now know it's not fixable with him.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: No. And also I feel like if you're concerned for
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: your life, that that's irreparable. Maybe so this now we
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: get to December sixth, two thousand and nine. This is
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: the day before Susan goes missing. Susan and Josh have
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: a neighbor over at our Utah home on Sunday afternoon.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: The neighbor remembers Josh acting out of the ordinary, offering
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: to make them dinner and willingly doing domestic tasks which
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: he always avoided. I remember he made like pancakes or
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: something like the last day. Yes, this is her last
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: meal before she disappears. He made pancakes and he actually
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: like brought them to her, and I guess that was
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: just strange because he doesn't cook, he doesn't do anything domestic,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: he doesn't wait on her in any way, shape or form.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: But he's gay to her right, he wants to kill her.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Josh made everyone pancakes and eggs for dinner, and Susan
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: reportedly fell ill afterwards and took a nap about five pm.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: There's also speculation, and this hasn't been proven because her
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: body has never been found, but that maybe possibly he
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: puts some kind of drug into that last meal on
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: the pancakes, into the pancakes or something, so that she
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: was sedated or asleep or something. The neighbor left, as
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: did Josh Powell, who said he was taking his two
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: sons sledding. So now we get to December seventh of
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: two thousand and nine. This is the day of her disappearance.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: So this is when no one can find her. So
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: twelve thirty am Josh claimed he took their sons on
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: a late night camping trip while Susan stayed at home.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: First of all, the story is absolutely asinine to me.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: The children are very young at this time. What are
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: they like two and four or something?
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: Did take them?
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: He did take then we believe he.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Did the heck takes such young kids or even adult
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: kids camping midnight? And I remember it was below freezing
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: it was, and it just made And it's a Sunday, right.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because he talks about it, it's a Sunday. Because
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: he talks about how he gets confused because he didn't
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: go to work the next day.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Why did you go to work? I thought it was Saturday, right,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: and I took my kids camping at midnight?
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Right, So he said he was confused about what day
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: it was. Although he shows up at her work on
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: that Monday to pick her up from work, even though
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: he knows she's not at work, and he's.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: An adult and can read a calendar and a clock, so.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Anyway, he claims. Josh Powell claims that around midnight he
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: decided to take his two young boys camping into the
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: mountains in Utah. It was snowy, below freezing one, right
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: and below freezing weather with snow, and so that's and
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: he claims that she did not go and that he
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: just has no idea what happened to me.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: And I know you're going to get into this, but
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: he came back the next morning, right, yes, so it's
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: like he didn't. It's like, kids, wake up, we're gonna
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: go sleep in the snow. Right, we'll be back in
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: the morning, right, Mom's got pancakes, right, So.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: At nine am. This is on December seventh, two thousand
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: and nine, the Pals daycare provider becomes alarmed when they
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: fail to drop off their sons on time and she
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: could not reach either parent. She contacts Josh Powell's mother
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: and sister, who call police after they cannot locate the couple.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: So he's not answering a cell phone so many people
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: are reaching out trying to get hold of him.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Thinking he's at work and he probably should answer his phone.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Norse right, or thinking where are you with the kids?
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: If it's a normal Monday, he should be answering the
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: phone or reachable.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: So they ask for a welfare check because no one
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: he's not answering, They can't get a hold of Susan,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: so no one can get a hold of the whole family.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: So around ten am that day, police break into the
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Pals home and find no one there. They do notice, however,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: and this is very interesting, that when they break into
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: the home that there are two large box fans blowing
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: air onto a wet spot on the carpet of the
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: home and to the couch. So the couch is wet,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: there's a wet spot on the carpet, and there's two
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: box fans pointed at that. They found no visible signs
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: of a struggle in the house by fights.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Weird, Well, that's why there's no no signs of anything.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: There's like some little bit of blood drops that they.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Find, oh but not enough to be considered alarming.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but all it is is the wet couch and
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: the wet carpet and the box fans and the camping
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: at midnight with the two young kids. So that's where
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: we're at. Around five pm, Josh Powell finally returns home
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: with his sons, but there's no sign of Susan anywhere.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Powell is then taken to the West Valley Police station
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: for questioning.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Wait, can I ask questions? Did he when he came home?
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: They were there, right, I believe so, yes, And they
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: wanted to be like.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Why didn't answer your phone? Right? Said well, I didn't
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: want to use my battery because I didn't have a charger.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: And then when they looked in his call, he had
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: a charger was plugged in. Right, Yeah, it was like right, guys.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: He also when he was first, when they were first
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: calling him and trying to contact him. I do believe
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: that a police investigator finally had a conversation with him
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: and said, people are looking for you. You know you're
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: no one can find your wife. Couch is we the
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: couch is wet. We broke into your house and instead
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: of coming home, he drives twenty miles in the opposite direction. Yeah,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: so that's and.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: They don't he say he does, he doesn't. He claim
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: he made a wrong turn, probably something matter of fact,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: and then he kind of made it like, well I
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: was destroyed and what was going on?
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: But during that phone call, he is made aware that
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: his wife is missing because she did not show up
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: to work. That's very clear. So he drives to her work. First,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: he calls and leaves her a voicemail, Hey honey, you
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: know hi. Then he drew. Then he drives to her
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: work and sits outside.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, this is all before he comes home. Yes, when
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: the police are saying, we're at home and your wife's missing.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Right, your wife is missing. She did not show up
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: to work. Then he drives to her work, sits outside
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: her work, leaves a voicemail and says, Hey, I'm at
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: your work waiting for you to get off work. I'm
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: going to take you home because they only have one car.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's supposed to create alibis prior to yeah, the missing.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Right, he's trying to create alibis during the post facto
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: alibis exactly So, around five pm, Josh Powell returns home
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: with his sons, but there's no sign of Susan, and
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: then he is taken into the West Valley Police Station
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: for questioning. I watched I have you ever watched the
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: videos of him in the police station being questioned about
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: I've never hated someone so much. I mean, we do
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of true crime cases and I hate everyone,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: but I mean Josh Powell, just the narcissism.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: But you say that about a lot of people I know,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: But I'm just about me. Well, sure, I've never hated
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: someone so much, so it doesn't really mean a whole
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: lot in the same category as a killer.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Oh right, Anyway, have you watched his interrogation interviews or
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: not even interrogation, because they're not even that hard on him.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: I'm just talking about just trying to ask him basic
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: questions about his wife. He has like a ski cap on,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: he's sitting in the corner. He's just very narcissistic. He
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: acts like they're bothering him. He doesn't answer questions, he
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: doesn't want to answer. I mean, if your wife is
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: legitimately missing and no one can find her, and your
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: claim is that you had nothing.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: To do with it, oh instead of like, well she
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: goes here, or there's this, or like trying to give
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: more info and more resources, right, like helping that hear
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: some of her friends. We can call right.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: I've never seen someone so bothered by having to sit
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: and answer questions about assaulting. He's so offended and like
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: he's so just barely answers, doesn't want to be there.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: He oh, he's the worst question. Yes, And every time
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: we do these, I kind of wonder this, if if
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: I didn't show up somewhere one day, I don't know
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: if anyone would want to do a welfare check. Okay,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: if you didn't show up one day, you're supposed to
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: film and you're supposed to be somewhere and you don't
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: show up, Like, who's gonna be really that concern? Like
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: who is it? I don't know. All these people always
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: have like they didn't show up in five minutes late,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: and so everyone's like running around looking for.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: What you're talking about. Even when we were talking about
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: the case and Columbus the Tepee case, like when both
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: of them didn't show up to work the case like
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: five minutes la case, people are like, oh my god,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: they didn't show up to work.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: That's so weird, be like this is out of the ordinary.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: They'd be like, yeah, well something Look if.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: I was late to filming and they couldn't get a
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: hold of me. They people would be concerned because in
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: eight years, I have never been late ever, and I've
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: never missed, so that I feel like would set people off.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: I feel like they would look for me. I don't
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: know about you, though, I don't know if anybody would.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: People would just think that you were just hiding from me,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: that you just needed a break.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: People would ask you. They'd be like, he's been missing
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: for forty eight hours.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: You're like, he has, yes, I did not notice. The
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: day after Susan disappeared, her four year old son, Charlie,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: told investigators that his mom had gone camping with them,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: but she did not return with them.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: He also said that they went camping in an airplane.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: He did say they went camping in an airplane.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: And that's why I don't know what under context. I
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: kind of wanted to know that, but I don't think
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: there's video of it. But I wanted to know because
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: what if he was I don't know. I don't know
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: what if his I don't know. I mean, just because
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: he says they went camping an airplane doesn't mean everything
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: else is incorrect. It doesn't invalidate everything it comes out of.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: His mouth, right, But it's also hard to use that
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: as solid evidence.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: That you know, I know, Ugh, he's good for the defense.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Right, It's a piece, it's a piece of evidence. Roughly
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: ten days after Susan vanished, Josh filed paperwork to withdraw
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: funds from her retirement account. This is also interesting to me.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: This isn't two thousand and seven, So in two thousand
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: and nine when she disappeared, but in two thousand and seven,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: they both took out million dollar life insurance policies with
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: each other as beneficiary. First of all, I feel like
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: a million is a lot of money for someone that
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: kind of lived very simple lives, like he doesn't really
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: even have a job, and she's kind of the breadwinner
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: and they I don't know, it just seems like a
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: lot of money. They were living with her with his
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: dad when they were first married, and they lived in
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: the dining room and had partitions hanging up, and I
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: don't know, it just seems like a large amount of
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: money for.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: It seems like a lot of incentive, a.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Lot of incentives. Right. Police also found a hand written
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: will in Susan's safe deposit box, which we talked about
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: in the note, she described serious marital problems. She references
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: the million dollar life insurance policy that Josh had taken
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: out on her and suggested that if she died, it
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: might not be accidental. I would say that in two
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: thousand and seven, when they took out the million dollar
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: life insurance policies on each other, that that was that
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Josh's and it was his idea. I don't think in
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: any way, shape or form, that was something that she
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: came up with.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was taken out on him too, him too,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: but he doesn't.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's safe as a kitten, right, He's.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Like no, I no, But I wonder why he took
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: it out of himself. But it could have been cover
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: up or could have been a package deal or whatever.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Well, it could have been a way to convince her
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: that that's what they needed. I mean, how suspicious is
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: that if he goes here and he's like, look, we're
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: going to take out a million dollar life insurance policy
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: on you plan on going camping, and I'm going to
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: be the beneficiary. But don't worry about me. You don't.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Nothing's gonna happen to me. Yeah, although I do have
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: a life insurance policy on you, and you don't have
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: one on me, right, So there's that. So then in
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: January twenty ten, Josh picks up and moves to Washington
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: to live with his father. So less than a month
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: after Susan's disappearance, Josh moved away with his two sons
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: to his father, Stephen Powell's home in Washington. He stated
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: he wanted to escape the media tension. You know, there's
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: another interview I saw of him where this investigative reporter
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: that was following the case figures out like where one
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: of Josh's sisters lives, and then he drives there. He's
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: hoping Josh is there, and he actually runs into Josh
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: as he's parking and getting out of his car. Have
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: you seen that interview?
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Maybe a long time ago, but I think his sister
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: was opposed to him, right, and she was really calling
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: him out on well that behavior.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So he has one sister named Jennifer Graves, who
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: believed all along that he was involved, that he had
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: something to do with it, and she's estranged from the
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: family he had. But he also had two other brothers
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: and another sister. So I believe he was visiting some
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: siblings home or something, and this investigative reporter happens to
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: come up upon him right when he's getting out of
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: his car, and he like interviews him in the middle
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: of the street, and he's like, where's your wife? Do
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: you know what happened to her? Why would she run off?
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: And it's so awkward because he can't answer the questions.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: He looks around, he can't. It's it's like the most
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: bizarre interview.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: He was really bad at any of his alibi, any planning.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: He just killed her, and then after that he had
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: no plans right, any no idea what to say or
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: how to act, how to cover up.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: No, and he didn't participate in any of the searches.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's like a number one rule too.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: If you're going to commit a crime where you have
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: a body that disappears and then people are going to
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: search for the body that if you want to cover
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: up your crime, you should involve yourself in the actual search.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: When you're saying you had.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Nothing to do, you should act sad and you should
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: cry yes and not pull out a bunch of money.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: And you should answer questions when you don't want to
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: answer questions and you don't want to give any information
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: and you don't want to comply with the police file
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: for divorce. So then in twenty ten, about a year
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: after the first interview, detectives try and question Charlie again.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Now he's five years old. He was much more reluctant
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: to answer questions this time around, saying he couldn't talk
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: about Susan or camping because he's keeping secrets. So now
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: we know at this point that there's been conversations in
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: front of him. He's probably been coached in some way.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: I think, if I can go back, I think he
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: said when he said mom came with us camping.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Huh.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: He said she was in the back in the trunk,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: although I don't there's no trunk in a minivan. But
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: I don't remember if he said back or you know,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: in the like he referenced to her not being in
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: the seats right, and then he said they went on
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: an airplane.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Right. On July fourteenth, the twenty eleven, Steven Powell, so
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: this is the father of Josh Powell, gave an interview
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: on The Today Show making sexual allegations about Susan. See
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: this is where this family comes up with this idea.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: I believe I feel like there was a lot of
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: conversation about how let's change the narrative and let's start
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: doing interviews and talking about Susan being like sexually promiscuous.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: She had or a second life, right, Like, you.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Guys don't know what she's really like because they're getting
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: all this media scrutiny.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: She ran off in some reals, but you know what,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: you overlook some things to mention. So her cell phone
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: had the sim card taken out, right, So that's suspicious
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: because he's it's not traceable, right, And then he U
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: there was that, and there was there was a couple
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: other things. Oh, her purse, everything is like left behind, right,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: It's like another she just woke up and walked out
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: the door and left her kids and left everything the
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: freezing cold, and she likes to sleep with men. I
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: don't know where she is, right, It's like seriously, right,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: who else did Peterson was the same way? Right? It
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: was like Scott Peterson, Right, it was like she just vanished,
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: although he claimed she was adjuctive, So I guess that
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: would explain a little bit more why her purse and
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: everything's left behind. And then you have the Watts family,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: which we didn't go over yet. But it's the same thing.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: The wife is missing and everything is left in the
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: house as is, and she just leaves her kids.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Right, there's appears, right.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: That doesn't happen men more likely?
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it's true. No, it is true.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: I actually a man would even take his wallet, like
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: he would still take his wallet in his phone.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: When he leaves. Yeah, yeah, no, I yeah, you're right,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: so Susan. So in this case, Susan Powell's purse and
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: phone cell phone was found.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Were left behind. She's a history of like drugs or
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: something which might cause someone to make.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Your infidelity because they ask because they asked Josh in
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: an interview. I believe maybe it was that reporter I
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: was talking about said has there been a history? Because
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: they He's just like, I don't know. You know, she's
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: a very sexual person. She just ran off with some
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: other guy, right, She just walks out the front door,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: doesn't take any clothes with her, doesn't need a purse
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: or a cell phone, right, never wants to see her
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: kids again.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: But she was disciplined enough to dry the couch. Yes, Well,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: you know, before you leave, you got to make sure
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: it's cleaned up.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Right, So then when Susan. So then when Stephen Powell
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: does this interview this is in twenty eleven with the
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Today Show, he starts making these sexual allegations about Susan
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: to switch the narrative, right, he's trying to make it
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: into like she's some sexual.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Devian after she's dead. Now you're just going to taint.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Her, right. He announced that he had an intention to
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: publish Susan's teenage diary, which he says will show that
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: she was sexually open. He claims that he and his
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: daughter in law both acted sexually towards one another. Shortly afterward,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: police searched his home this is in Washington, and investigators
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: found hidden recordings that he'd made of Susan, the in law,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: the father in law. So this is when, So when
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Susan and Josh were first married, you know they're young.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: They lived with his father and they lived in the
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: dining room. It looks like a very small house. There
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: shift a makeshift room in the dining room area with
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: like some curtains and some partitions put up. Have you
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: seen the videos that he made.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: They showed a lot, you know, he followed her around
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: and stuff, right, yeah, I.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Mean like stalking yeah, and he was. He he would
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: take videos of her with her knowledge, where he made
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: sexual innuendos and videotaped her legs and her legs crossed
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: and her walking away. But he also had a lot
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: of videos that she was unaware of where he was
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: following her. And he's talking while he's making all these
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: videos of her, and he's talking about how he's in
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: love with her and she's the most beautiful woman he's
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: ever seen in the world. Oh and if she reached
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: down or bent over, he's like, Oh, she's doing that
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: for me. She knows that, I'm I mean, it was
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: just it's sick. He also would take her underwear and
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: smell them and make videos of it, and he would
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: lay her clothes out. But here's the thing. Obviously, Josh
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: is close to his dad because they live with his dad,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: and then when Susan goes missing, he only stays in
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: that house two months and then he moves to Washington
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: and lives with his dad. He has to know that
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: his dad has an obsession with his wife, but he
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem to have a problem with that. This is
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: where this whole Powell family is just I don't even creepy,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: all of them, all of them creepy, creepy family with
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: the dad as the patriarch of creepiness, and then all
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: the kids being products of him.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Well I think it's yeah, well he Josh is a
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: product of his father. I don't know if the sisters
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: did anything.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: No, well, I think the sister, well, the one sister,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Jennifer Graves, is like separated from the family. But there's
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: another sister named Elena, and everyone believes that she knows
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: more than she's willing to say, and she's a big
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: she constantly would defend her dad. So and then there's
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: the other brother that committed suicide, and I mean, we will,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: all right. So he claims that his daughter in law
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: acted sexually towards him, or they're towards each other, like
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: it was mutual, like they had this mutual sexual attraction.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: So police search his home in Washington. They find the
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: hidden recordings that he'd taken of Susan.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: I think like four thousand images and recordings.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't understand how this guy had a job
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: and like was able to.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: He spends all his time, probably on disability or something
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: something where he doesn't work, and he just is a creep.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: He would lay out her clothes and sniff her underwear.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: He collected her trash from the bathroom, like cotton swabs
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: and tampons. Did you see that? Like he would literally collect.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: I avoid the trash can.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well I would think, yeah, And he would put
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: them in ziploc bags and keep them. He also recorded
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: a conversation he had He would just lay it, like
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: lay them out. Yeah. He had videos of like all
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: this stuff laid out with like her underwear and her
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: clothes and photos of her and cotton swabs and underwear
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: and brawls, and I mean he was just a sick Oh.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: He also recorded a conversation he had with Susan in private,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: where he admitted to getting aroused by her and assumed
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: that she felt the same way. She voiced to how
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: uncomfortable she was by him. Stephen also possessed inappropriate materials
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: involving miners, some of whom were neighborhood children, that he
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: would film through windows secretly. So that's I don't remember
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: the age of minors. But that's why he gets arrested.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so if I remember correctly, Kriktman wrong. But
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: he gets arrested and now they can use that to
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: take the kids from Josh Powell, right, saying this is
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: not a safe environment that they're in, we have to
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: do our investigation. And then I think they put expectations
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: on him that he needs to correct in order to
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: get his kids back, right, to create a certain environment.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: So now the kids are under the state's control.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Right. So in November of twenty eleven, Stephen Powell, this
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: is the father in law, was arrested in charged with
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: voyeurism and possession of child pornography. Josh Powell was named
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: as a subject in that investigation, and following Steven's arrests,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Josh lost custody of his sons. And you're right, it
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: was because of an unfit environment. And what are these
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: kids being subjected to, Chuck and Judy.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Cox so that their father's a murderer.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Right, man? That Chuck and Judy Cox, these are Susan's
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: parents were granted temporary custody while the state maintained official custody.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Josh was a lit out weekly supervise visits.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: I remember every what seemed like every few months, they'd
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: have a lead of some sort for the location of
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: the body. Because Josh had said to a co worker
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: that you could hide a body in a mine out. Yeah,
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: So they kept looking in the mind and then he
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: said he went camping at the I think it was
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: like the Simpsons Park or something.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: It was, it's called Simpson something, And.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: So they went there immediately after, thinking well, maybe there's
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: a body there, and they said there was no signs
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: of anyone camping. It was all like snow and there
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: was untouched. So he never went there. So every few
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: what seemed like every few months, it would surface in
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: the news that they had a lead and they were searching.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: And then I remember Susan's parents, namely as her father
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: would like fly out and be there and he was
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: first hand, like on top of it. But ye, she
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: was never found.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: No, And they also searched Josh's computer and they found
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: lots of search on his computer for remote areas, so
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: he was looking for remote areas and I'm sure that
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: was his search for where to duck the body.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Also, I think they found another body while they were
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: looking for her, because I remember when they found a
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: body or maybe it was her first, and then it
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: wasn't soon after her disappearance, he rents a car and
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: puts eight hundred miles on it. So if you draw
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: a circle of four hundred mile you know radius or whatever,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: that's a huge area to search, right. And it's weird
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: that he rented a car, right and then returned.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: It and went eight hundred miles miles. Right. We also
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: how does the brother Michael's car come into.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Play, because they then they he Michael's car. The brother's
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: car was a four tourist and they got rid of that.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: He took it to a salvage yard and sold it
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: for like one hundred.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Bucks, right, just to get rid of it, right, because
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: he wanted it destroyed.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: He wanted it destroyed. It was in working order. They
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: then they found that, they find that out, so they
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: take cadaver dogs to Now this car, it's not in
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: his care, so they can search it and they have
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: kidaverdogs and cad averdogs find two spots where there was
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: signs of a corpse.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: A corpse a dead body human.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: And they thought that I remember, they thought they had
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: real big leads now like we're going to get this
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: and led nowhere. Yeah, you know, DNA know nothing.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: And also I believe they knew what salvage yard because
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: his brother Michael had reached out by email and wanted aeriel.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: He asked, he like it.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Went far away, He like supposedly passed like three or
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: four places that he could have dumped it off at
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: and went to a much much further location and got
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: rid of the car. And is there a reason? I
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: thought it was his distance, but you're gonna say it's
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: something else.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Well, he then he reached out and wanted like aerial photographs.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: He reached out to like a company, a drone company
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: maybe or so, I don't know exactly, but wanted aerial
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: shots of that salvage yard. And I they believe it's
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: because he wanted to make sure that that car was
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: destroyed or was following up to make sure the car
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: was destroyed.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but okay, I.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Don't know, but that so it's his. So the brother
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Michael has always been under suspicion that he was possibly
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: and he's very close with Josh. Josh and Michael were
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: very close, So he was always under suspicion that maybe
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: he wasn't involved in the planning or maybe the actual
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: murder slash disappearance, but that Josh had possibly moved the
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: body and that his brother was involved, and that because
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: there's the eight hundred miles put on a rental car
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: days after she's disappeared and police are searching for her.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: And then there's also they I you know, I don't
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: know what they did with the rental car other than
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: they knew it had eight hundred miles put on it,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: but they weren't sure, like.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: What, you know, they didn't have it or anything.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: I don't think so at that time. Now we're too.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: February of twenty twelve, evidence surface from a laptop from
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Josh's Utah home that contain cartoon pornography from various Nickelodeon
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: shows that was incestuous. A judge ordered Josh to undergo
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: a psycho sexual evaluation and take a polygraph test, which
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: he avoided doing throughout Susan's disappearance. Well, of course, you know,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: he wouldn't even answer questions. He's not going to take
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: a polygraph. Then, on February fifth of twenty twelve, just
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: days after this new court order, a state caseworker, Okay,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: this is where we're going to get into. This part
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: is so tragic to me.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: So the boys are now let's recap. So now I
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: think he's in his own house. Yeah, he went house
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: to conditions, right, but I mean it's he's not with
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: his father or anything, and his father's in jail and
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: custody over correctly, and so he's now trying to meet
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: the conditions to get his children back. And he's currently
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: under supervised visits weekly or bi weekly, who knows. But nonetheless,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: they come over to the house with a social worker
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: and the kids run up to the door and he
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: welcomes him in and then the social worker follows.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: Right. So this is February fifth of twenty twelve, just
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: days after this new court order, a state case worker
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: brought the boys to Josh's home for a supervised visit.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: And just like you were saying, he does. He opens
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: the door, the boys run up. He had this planned, right,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: he knew they were going to run up. Probably they
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: run into the house. He shuts the door, He locks
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: the social worker out. She cannot get into the house
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: and she's pounding on the door and he will not
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: let her in. She calls nine to one one and
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: she says, you know, I'm here for a supervised visit.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: The boys ran into the house and the father has
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: locked me out. He won't let me in. He attacks
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: the children with an axe. I don't understand this part, Like,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: how do you do something like that? He spread gasoline
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: onto the children and throughout the house. Then he lit
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: a match which caused the house to explode, and Josh
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: and both of the boys were killed within the house. Right,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: so we have a murder suicide.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: So now we have the mother who's missing, but we know,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: we know she's dead, right, And then you have he
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: killed himself.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: He kills himself, their two children, kills the two boys.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: So then Stephen Powell is convicted. In June of twenty twelve,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: this is the dad's the dad of Josh. Stephen Powell
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: was convicted of voyeurism and sentenced to two and a
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: half years in prison. The child pornography charge was initially
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: dismissed in twenty twelve. In twenty fourteen, the state appeals
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: the court and reinstates that charge. Then in twenty fifteen,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: Stephen Powell was convicted of possession of child porn and
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: sentenced to an additional five years in prison. He was
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: released from prison in July of twenty seventeen after serving
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: just seven years total, but he died of heart problems
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: about a year later, and I did read because I
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: read about his death when he was taken to the
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: hospital because he was having a heart attack. Investigators went
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: to the hospital because they were hoping to get some
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: kind of deathbed confession.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Drove around a bunch of circles before this guy was
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: this guy?
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: No, but they were hoping that they could get some
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: kind of last night confession like where's the body? How
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: was you know? Something? But he died of a heart
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: attack and they got no further information.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: And then got an opportunity to try that.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: I don't believe, so I know. I just know that
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: they got no information from him and now he's dead.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: So you know, everyone, a lot of people, I mean,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: anyone reasonable would think that the dad knows way more.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean, even if he wasn't a part
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: of it. After the fact, I'm sure Josh told him everything, right,
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: and I'm sure he was helping them like do this,
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: do that, don't talk to them right.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Right, And a lot of people believe the brother Michael,
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: because he was close with Josh, helped after the fact too,
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: even though and we even talked about Michael's car. Oh yeah,
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: that was Michael's car that had They had the cadaver
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: dogs that had a hit in the trunk on it
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: the trunk. So the brother Michael Powell, who was close
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: with Josh, ends up committing to suicide a year later
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: after Josh committed suicide, and he actually jumps off of
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: a building. I think he's in graduate school at the time.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: He jumps from a parking garage in Minneapolis. He was
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: thirty years old, and he died approximately one year after
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: his brother Josh committed suicide. The speculation is, did he
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: feel guilty, was he involved in some way? Did he
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: help move the body? Was he grieving from Josh dying
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: and his two nephews dying? You know, so so many secrets.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: This is why Susan Powell's body has never been found
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: because anyone connected that does anything is dead. No, the
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: father in law is dead, Josh is dead, the children
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: are dead. And now the brother Michael that he was
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: close to, commits suicide.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: And there's minds everywhere. I mean, I know, you know,
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: or four hundred mile radius. I mean, that's insane, right.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: So, after the twenty twelve explosion that killed the two boys,
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: the Cox family filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Washington's
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Department of Social and Health Services. This is a negligence suit, right,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: That's what I would assume that they.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Weren't negligence house so because like I mean, well.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: I mean just probably like a lack of duty of
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: care like somehow like all.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: Letting the kids run in the house, like lack of supervision.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Or even the fact that they let him have supervised
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: visits and when he was you know, a person of
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: interests and the death of their mother and all these things.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: And maybe the supervisors should have been at a remote
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: location where they have control instead of the house. I
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: don't know, right.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: In twenty fifteen, the lawsuit was dismissed. However, in twenty nineteen,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: the ninth US Circuit Court of Appeals revived the case.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: The wrongful death civil trial began in February of twenty twenty.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: We can't believe this case. It starts in two that
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: she disappears in two thousand and nine. Here we are
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty. This has just been an ongoing saga,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: and we followed it. We lived in Utah starting in
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: two thousand and nine all the way up to when
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: did we move back here twenty thirteen, so we were
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: literally living in Utah and the Susan Powell case was huge.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: This is why I wanted to talk about it because
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: I felt like it was like every night when we
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: would go to.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Bed, it felt like the Scott Peterson case. When we
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: were living in Utah. Yeah it was well we were, yeah,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: but we were in California at that time. But it
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: was like in real time, everyone's following it. Everyone's following
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: it and the developments and this guy that creeped walking
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: around and everyone knows he killed the wife, you know, right,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: but you're waiting for the evidence, right.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: So the wrongful death civil trial began in February of
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty and Tacoma, Washington. In March. The trial was
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: paused due to COVID nineteen, but they reconvened at the
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: end of July and August of twenty twenty, a jury
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: awarded the Cox family. This is insane. This is talk
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: about a jury award. The jury awarded the Cox family
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: ninety eight point five million against the state agency. A
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: judge later reduced the award to thirty two million, which
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: basically came down to sixteen million per child, and then
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: the Cox family announced plans to appear the reduction, and
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: I do believe that it's been do you know where
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: it's at now? I do believe the ninety eight I
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: do believe the ninety eight point five has been reinstated. Now.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know how feasible it is for the Cox
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: family to collect ninety eight point five, but that is
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: the final Yeah, that's the judgment judgment. Just recently, Susan
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Palell's mother, Judy Cox, passed away. This is according to
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: her daughter Denise, and she said that she can't wait
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: to see Susan and the boys. She couldn't wait to
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: see them again. That was the last thing that she said.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: And this is it's crazy. She just passed away without
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: knowing where her daughter is, without any answers, nobody found,
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: not knowing what happened to her daughter. A Judy Cox
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: remained publicly hopeful that her daughter's remains would someday be recovered,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: keeping her portion of the insurance proceeds and trust in
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: case Susan were found alive. That's another lawsuit. So there
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: was the wrongful death lawsuit that had to do with
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: the Cox family suing CPS right based upon the child.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: The children you know, dying a wrongful death suit. There's
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: also a lawsuit that had to do with insurance proceeds
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: because remember they took out those million dollar insurance policies.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Josh Powell changed the beneficiary to his brother Michael, and
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: so there was there was a lawsuit over who should
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: get those proceeds because we've talked about this before.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: Should you know, should able to collect right.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Should his family be able to benefit from him killing
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: himself and his children? And because there were because that
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: insurance policy also had writers on the children, two hundred
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: and fifty thousand each on the children. So then it
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: went in New York Life I think was the insurance
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: company was like, this is messy, Like we don't know
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: what to do with these insurance proceeds. So let's just
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: like kick it to a court and you figure all
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: this out, because this is messy. You have a woman
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: who disappeared, he's person of interest, he kills himself and
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: kills the children, you know who the brother is a beneficiary,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: and then he kills himself. So New York Life Insurance
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: Company questioned the validity of Josh's changes after the murder
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: suicide given Washington's community property laws and Josh's status as
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: a slayer. We've talked about that before slayer statutes. Susan's parents,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: the cox has fought for the funds for the boys,
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: arguing Josh couldn't benefit his family from the children's policies.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: So the final outcome this took place in twenty fourteen
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: to twenty fifteen. A federal judge ordered the proceeds for
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: the Sun's policies about two hundred and sixty four thousand
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: each split fifty to fifty between Chuck Cox that's Susan's dad,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: for Susan's estate and trust, and then the other for
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Michael Powell's estate that's Josh's brother. For Josh's policy, which
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: was over a million, a judge ordered a split about
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: half to Chuck Cox that's Susan's dad, and half to
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: Josh's family family, which would go to Michael's estate Alena
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: that's a sister, and John another brother. In twenty fifteen,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: a settlement finalized the distribution, with funds going to the
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: Coxes as conservators of Susan's estate and also to Josh's
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: family through Michael's estate. So anyway, it was very complicated.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: So all right, Anyway, do you have any final thoughts
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: on Josh Powell and Susan Powell? And I wonder if
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: they're still currently looking for her body, like, I mean,
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: I know how expensive that is. I guess they're not
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: unless there's some solid lead.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Like actively, but it's probably not necessarily cold either or closed.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: I saw some some guy that did a little investigation
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: on her and trying to figure out what the weapon
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: was that was used to kill her, and he theorized
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: that it was a power drill. What because or at
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: least it was used as part of it, like blunt
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: force trauma.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: Are you saying in the house?
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: This is like because just prior to I don't remember
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: the timeframe, but not long like months prior to, he
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: bought a kit like a power tool kit, had like
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: five power tools in it, and it's documented, like you know,
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: they showed the purchase price. You know, I think there's
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: a transaction of him buying it. There's actually home videos
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: of him using it and teaching his kids like home repair.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: And then there's when the cops are sweeping the home
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: or initially it's there, right and it's at a place,
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: and then and then when they did the search of
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: the home or the car, excuse me, the minivan. When
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: they took the minivan to search it, there was two
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: sheet rocks. I think there were sheet rocks. If not,
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: there were like MDF woods that were in the back
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: of the car and they were burnt. And I saw
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: photos of this. So they pulled out these you know,
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: it's equivalent of plywood, right, they pull it out and
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: it's burnt, and it's all this like melted plastic and
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: metal on there, and and it's a power it's the
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: power drill. And so it was that little bonfire, that
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: little mess was not there when they initially came to
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: look for her, and then when they came the next
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: day to search the home and the car they found
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: all that. So in between the time when his wife's missing,
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: he takes a blowtorch because he had one, and melts
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: this tool and then puts it in the back of
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: his car.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: Oh he melted the tool.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was destroying the evidence.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, so they did not do they did not take
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: it initially. Well, when they came back from the search,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: he had already melted it. So you're saying it was
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: shown it was in the house initially and there's photos
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: of it in the house.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's all the power tools and then later
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: the ones missing and they took They did take the
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: power tools as inventory and stuff. But then he said
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: there was no DNA testing done around it or anything
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: because they had no reason to think so this did
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: inventory anyway. So there's just a lot of mystery around this.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: How he killed her. I thought maybe possibly he strangled her.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: I thought maybe he put something in the eggs of
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: the pancakes that made her drowsy or sleepy so that
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: she couldn't fight back. And then she you know, she
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: said she didn't feel well and she needed to take
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: a nap. And then I thought maybe he strangled her.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: But but then that wouldn't It could have been both,
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: But then that wouldn't count for why he would have
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: to clean up the floor, because if he strangled her,
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: there wouldn't be blood, right unless I.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, you mean the white couch.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: So the couch was clean because he had to clean
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: the couch and he had to clean the carpet. So
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: there had to have been some type of.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Something or something. What did he have to clean? Why
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: was it wet? I don't know, right, good.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Question, but you know, even when you clean up blood,
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: it doesn't go away. They always I watch forensic files,
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: they take them at all. But then they did so
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: there was no blood because they had to.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: If there was blood're right, he wouldn't have been able
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: to clean it right so much that they couldn't find Tracy.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Right. That's why I always thought maybe he's maybe he
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: strangled her, because then there wouldn't have been blood evidence
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: left behind. Because I'm telling you, because if there was
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: any type of fight or something where there was blood,
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: they would have sprayed lubin all and it would have
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: lit up it and that would have been enough to
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: arrest him. I don't know, but they never could arrest him.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: So I think.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: It sounds dumb, but something is not obvious and odd,
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: like maybe you know, in a struggle, food flew everywhere
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: and spilt, and he thought, this looks like a struggle.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: I need to clean it up. So we're looking for
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: something more juicy, right, like blood or weapons. It's just
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: like he was just trying to tidy up so it
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: didn't look like a skull a struggle, and so it's
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: not anything more than.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: That, right, And now it's just a wet couch, it's
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: actually Tan what oh I thought you said White.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: I don't care what killer it is, you know.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: I think the most frustrating thing with this entire case
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: is those children obviously could have been saved if they
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: could have made an arrest of Josh Powell. And when
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: they interview investigators and detectives and everyone that was involved
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: in the case, they were so concerned about making an
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: arrest where a good defense attorney could have gotten him
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: off because there was no smoking gun like we were
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: talking about. They didn't know exactly what the weapon was,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: they don't know have a body, they don't know where
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: the body is, they don't know what happened that night.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: He doesn't answer questions. They so they felt as if
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: they didn't have enough to arrest him and be able
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: to charge him and keep him, and they thought that
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: that would bungle their, you know, their investigations, so they
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: just kept holding off, waiting for more.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, had they known what the outcome would have been,
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: of course they would have done differently, but they probably
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: thought time was on their side, something will surface, and
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: then nothing did.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, you have to be not only are you
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: one sick individual, because obviously this specific podcast and that
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: we're doing has to do with husband's murdering wives or
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: wives murdering husbands. But it is just next level to
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: be able to kill your young children. I mean, you
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: have to be.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Well tune in next week, I'm sure we'll find someone.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: You have to be just completely psychotic. And the way
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: he did it, exactly the way he did it, yeah,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: with a hatchet. I mean because we did we because
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: there was the whole you know, Annabel and I were
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: at that cheerleading competition last weekend. We were we were
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: in Vegas and there if you've looked at the news,
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: you know my news sources Instagram, but if you've paid
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: any attention to the news, there was the murder suicide
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: that happened in Vegas, and that is a mother that
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: killed her daughter in a Vegas hotel room, which I
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: cannot even fathom. And so you know, this case, talking
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: about two young little boys running into a house being
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: excited to see their dad and then him doing what
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: he did is just it's incomprehensible to me that someone
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: could do that. But we're not talking about regular people.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: We're talking about psychopaths. So there you go. We hope
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode of the Susan Powell case. There's
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: a lot of different documentaries out there that you can
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: find if you want to take a deeper dive and
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: watch it. It's really an interesting case, and I do
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: hope that someday the family has closure and that they
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: do find Susan's remains at some point. Anyway, thank you
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: so much for listening to Till death do Us Part.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: We will have weekly episodes on Husbands and Wives Again.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Our PSA to our listeners is divorce is always the
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: best option. Thank you for listening. You can follow legally
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: Brunette wherever you listen to podcasts, and be sure to
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: tell your friends and family. Thank you, thank you.