Latest / The SHEA Podcast / COVID-19 Vaccine Planning Statement, 11/5

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COVID-19 Vaccine Planning Statement, 11/5 · The SHEA Podcast

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Rapid Response Podcast brought to you by the Society of Healthcare Epidemiology of America, promoting the prevention of healthcare associated infections and antibiotic resistance and seeking to advance the field of healthcare epidemiology and antibiotic stewardship.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Dr.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Waleed Javeed.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the hospital epidemiologist at Mount Sinai Downtown, and I'll serve as your moderator.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Discussion on the podcast does not reflect Shay's perspective but facilitates communication of multiple perspectives and experiences as we go through this challenging time together.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: She is excited to launch this episode of the podcast series COVID-19 updates, what we know now.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Today's discussion will focus mainly on the vaccine planning statement.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Our speaker today is Dr.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Marcy Greese, Chief Infection Prevention Officer and Hospital Epidemiologist for Christiana Care.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining us today.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Before we start our discussion, I would like to turn it over to Dr.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Henner Han to get us started with a brief news update and a guidance update for this week.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: As of November 4th, 2020, there have been 47,059,867 confirmed cases of COVID-19, including 1,207,327 deaths reported to the World Health Organization.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: The Food and Drug Administration issued an alert on November 3rd to clinical laboratory staff and healthcare providers that false positive results can occur with antigen tests for the rapid detection of SARS-CoV-2.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: The FDA is aware of reports of false positive results associated with antigen tests used in nursing homes and other settings and continues to monitor and evaluate these reports and other available information about device safety and performance.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: The FDA reminds clinical laboratory staff and healthcare providers about the risk of false positive results with all laboratory tests.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Clinical laboratory staff and healthcare providers can help ensure accurate reporting of test results by following the authorized instructions for use of a test and key steps in the testing process as recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: A study published in Nature Medicine on October 29th evaluated wearable sensor data and self-reported symptoms for COVID-19 detection.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Researchers develop an app that collects smartwatch and activity tracker data as well as self-reported symptoms and diagnostic testing results from individuals in the United States and assessed whether symptom and sensor data can differentiate COVID-19 positive versus negative cases in symptomatic individuals.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: 30,529 participants were enrolled between March 25th and June 7th, of whom 3,811 reported symptoms.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Of these symptomatic individuals, 54 reported testing positive and 279 negative for COVID-19.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Researchers found that a combination of symptom and sensor data resulted in an area under the curve of 0.8 for discriminating between symptomatic individuals who were positive or negative for COVID-19, a performance that is significantly better than a model that considers symptoms alone.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: CDC issued guidance on antibody tests on November 3rd.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: In general, a positive antibody test is presumed to mean a person has been infected with SARS-CoV-2 at some point in the past.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: It does not mean they're currently infected.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Antibodies usually start developing within one to three weeks after infection.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: CDC states that we don't have enough information yet to say how protected someone might be from being infected again if they have antibodies to the virus.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Confirmed and suspected cases of reinfection with the virus have been reported, but remain rare.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Healthcare providers who use antibody tests must know how the different tests work and use caution when interpreting test results.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: False positive results can be minimized by choosing an antibody test with high specificity and by testing populations and people who are likely to have had COVID-19.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Antibody test results should not be used to diagnose someone with an active infection.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: A report in MMWR published November 2nd on birth and infant outcomes following laboratory-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection and pregnancy from March 29th through October 14th, 2020, describes longitudinal surveillance of pregnant women and their infants.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Among 3,912 infants with known gestational age born to women with SARS-CoV-2 infection, 12.9% were preterm, higher than a national estimate of 10.2%.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Among 610 infants with testing results, 2.6% had positive SARS-CoV-2 results, primarily those born to women with infection at delivery.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Another report in MMWR published October 30th on transmission of SARS-CoV-2 infections in households in Tennessee and Wisconsin from April to September 2020 assessed household transmission of SARS-CoV-2.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Among 191 household contacts, 102 had SARS-CoV-2 detected in either nasal or saliva specimens during follow-up for a secondary infection rate of 53%.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Among 14 households in which the index patient was aged less than 18 years, the secondary infection rate from index patients aged less than 12 years was 53%, and from index patients aged 12 to 17 years was 38%.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Approximately 75% of secondary infections were identified within five days of the index patient's illness onset, and substantial transmission occurred whether the index patient was an adult or a child.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: A study published in JAMA October 30th evaluated peripheral oxygen saturation in older persons wearing non-medical face masks in community settings.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: And in this small crossover study, 25 people were evaluated wearing a three-layer non-medical face mask.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: And wearing this type of mask was not associated with a decline in oxygen saturation in older participants.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: The results do not support claims that wearing non-medical face masks in community settings is unsafe.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the news for this week.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: I now want to move to the discussion with Dr.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Drees.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, Dr.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Drees, on October 14th, Shea released a statement for healthcare setting preparing for COVID-19 vaccination.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Can you provide a brief overview of statement and how it came to fruition?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you very much for inviting me to be here.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: Since June of this year, I have served as Shay's liaison to the ACIP, the Advisory Committee for Immunization Practice for CDC.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: And what that means is that I'm a non-voting member, but I am there at all the meetings regarding COVID vaccination planning as well as other vaccination issues.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've been heavily involved in listening in on kind of what all the decision making is taking place.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of that has been reviewing the available evidence, both in terms of the specific vaccine candidates as well as reviewing the epidemiology, reviewing modeling, and reviewing really what do we know about the COVID vaccines right now.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: Clearly, there's still a lot that's not known.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: And there has not yet been a vaccine that's been approved, but yet at the same time, we have to be in planning for the time that a vaccine is approved, because that may happen in a very short order once the FDA approves a vaccine and then the ACIP decides whether to recommend it.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: So we had gotten some questions from our members around can we share any of this information and what should healthcare epidemiologists be thinking about as they're starting to plan their vaccination programs?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: I worked with Grace Lee, who is a voting member of ACIP, as well as heading up some of the vaccine safety work, as well as Debbie Yokoe, to start to draft a statement that was then run through the board of directors of SHAY, and we incorporated their feedback before making it public.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: And hopefully it will be useful for people as they begin their planning process.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: The statement itself is very helpful.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for doing that.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk a little bit about making the vaccination a condition of employment?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, so Shea in general is certainly supportive of making vaccines that are recommended for healthcare workers a condition of employment.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: However, I think given this vaccine and how new it is and the fact that we are not going to have long-term safety data for this vaccine, I think everyone is comfortable saying that at this time should not be a condition of employment.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's very different requiring flu vaccine or MMR that we have decades of experience with compared to a vaccine that we may have only six months of experience with in a phase three trial that has 30,000 people.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: So the statement does explicitly state we do not recommend that it be made mandatory at this time.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, I should say also that should these vaccines, one or more vaccines, be approved under an emergency use authorization, which is not entirely clear that that will happen, but it's likely they could not be made mandatory anyway because of the EUA requirement.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: So in some cases it may be a moot point.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: But what we do recommend is, you know, if if a vaccine is mandatory, then you have to cover any adverse events of said vaccine under workers' compensation.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so if it's not a mandatory vaccine, an individual healthcare facility would have the option not to cover anything that happened under workers' comp.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: We do recommend that any healthcare facility that is offering their healthcare staff a vaccine that any adverse event also be covered under workers' comp on a voluntary basis.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think that's given that many of these people would not be getting vaccinated were they not healthcare workers, we believe it's the right thing to do to cover anything that might happen.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: That is very helpful to know the thinking behind the statement as well as the vaccination as a condition of employment.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: On one hand, it might make sense for that extra level of commitment, but then also we need to look at all facets that as the vaccine might be under emergency use and cannot be mandated regardless.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that there's the potential for kind of shooting ourselves in the foot, right?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think the vast majority of healthcare workers are not against the vaccine, nor are they necessarily first in line for the vaccine.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: They just want to know more.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: If you mandate it out of the gate, you have a potential for really turning people off versus, you know, if you make it available and educate and really make it something that we promote in a positive way, as opposed to mandating, I think we'll get a lot more engagement from our healthcare workers.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: That does make sense.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: So with the likelihood for initially insufficient doses of vaccine for all healthcare personnel, the document has recommendations on how healthcare systems should consider planning for distribution.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Why are these factors important?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: We know that initially the supply will be constrained.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: We don't know exactly how many doses will be available when they first become available, and we don't know how quickly additional doses will be made available.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: So we're really trying to plan for that initial, hopefully very short period of time where the supply is highly constrained.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're not going to have enough doses initially to vaccinate all healthcare personnel.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I would add that healthcare personnel is a very broad definition.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's really all paid or unpaid staff who may have contact with patients or with secretion.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not just people that have direct hands-on care responsibilities, but it really could be anybody working in the hospital.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it could be those that only work with other healthcare workers.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: So the definition is very broad, which means that we really have to try to prioritize for when those initial doses come into play.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: And the ACIP has really hesitated to put out any specific guidance around prioritization until we have more details about a specific vaccine candidate, just because we don't know yet in terms of efficacy, is it going to be differently effective with younger versus older persons?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: There's just so many questions that will hopefully be answered by these initial phase three trials.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: They really didn't want to put out any statements of prioritization until we have an actual vaccine candidate.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: So while I would expect some of that information to come out once a vaccine is actually approved and recommended by ACIP, as we start to plan ahead of time, we need to really just think about who would be first in line, assuming that we can't vaccinate everybody at first.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: Things to consider are, you know, obviously what is their risk of acquiring COVID.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: Our experience is that working on a COVID unit, while you may have more exposure to COVID-positive patients, you also have a lot of PPE, and we have very few acquisitions from patients in that setting, versus working in a non-COVID unit, you might actually be higher risk.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know that I would necessarily rank those that work on COVID units higher than those who work on non-COVID units, but certainly those that provide direct patient care are at higher risk than those who are working from home primarily or doing remote visits, that sort of thing.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: Other things to consider obviously are age.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: We know that people 65 and older are at higher risk should they acquire COVID.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: And those that have underlying health conditions that put them at increased risk should they acquire COVID.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: So those are all things you may end up having to have like an internal prioritization, kind of taking all those things into account as you begin your planning process.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: ACIP also, though, does not want to be overly prescriptive.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: Having learned the lessons from the H1N1 vaccine where demand was initially very, very high.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: It was very restricted in terms of who could get it.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then by the time the supply opened up, people didn't want it anymore.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of vaccine went unused.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's a balance between having to have some sort of prioritization, but still including some flexibility so that we're not wasting doses initially and that we're vaccinating the highest percentage of healthcare workers that we can.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: That was very helpful.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Just the planning in itself, looking at all the factors can be a daunting task.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the factors you have mentioned are really important to consider.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Can you speak a little bit about ensuring vaccine distribution is fair and recognizes the healthcare inequalities apparently within even the healthcare workers?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I think as everybody listening to this knows, you know, COVID has been disproportionately affecting communities of color for a number of different reasons.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so even within the healthcare workforce, we really want to take that into account.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: If you look at the healthcare workforce as a whole, it is very reflective of the community as a whole in terms of its racial and ethnic diversity.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: However, if you look at specific job types, their disparity quickly becomes apparent.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: The higher wage physicians are less likely to be black or brown.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: The lowest wage workers, environmental services, escort, dietary, et cetera, may be more likely to be black or brown.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: And they may have other risk factors, like they may be more reliant on public transportation.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: They may live in more crowded environments and not be able to social distance outside of work as much.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: So we really want to make sure that equity is considered really in all stages of planning.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so that whatever methods you're using to reach out to your healthcare workforce, you need to make sure that you're reaching out to all these different groups of people.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: For example, for our internal flu planning, we have an electronic system that allows people to pre-register for their flu vaccine.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's works great for us in terms of data acquisition, but it doesn't work very well for our folks that don't use computers every day, right?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: So we have to use different methods to capture the information for those staff.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: But keeping issues like that in mind as you're planning.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: And also you may have to tailor your communication differently to your physicians and nurses compared to your EVS and other workers.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: So just kind of keeping that equity in mind throughout your planning process, I think, is extremely important.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're absolutely right.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: We saw that in New York City and then across the country, the inequalities as well as the challenges sometimes that we face in getting all healthcare workers vaccinated, even for flu.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: All these things need to be kept in mind.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Another question what are the key talking points to counter vaccine hesitancy, even among the healthcare providers?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's a lot of misinformation that's being spread in the media in general.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, like many things, COVID-related has become somewhat politicized.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I know there's a general impression that this vaccine is being rushed, and certainly is being rushed because we don't have 15 to 20 years to develop a vaccine, which is what sometimes it takes to bring a vaccine to market.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think being very transparent about what we know today and what we don't know, and then updating that information as more information becomes available is really important.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: And really educating about what the process is.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, I think there's a general distrust of really any government agency in this day and age and the idea that they will succumb to political pressure to just get a vaccine on the market no matter what.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: The whole terminology of operation warp speed, which has provided a lot of funding for these vaccination efforts, is not necessarily reassuring to people, right?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: So what generally people have to understand is that a lot of what's being expedited is the manufacturing, as well as taking away a lot of the financial risk from the pharmaceutical companies.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because typically what would normally happen is you'd do your preclinical work.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: If that looks okay, you'd go on to phase one.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: If that looks okay, you'd go on to phase two and on to phase three, et cetera.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: And only after all that science is done would you even consider applying for approval and then starting to manufacture.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: So it takes a long time.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: What's happening through this process to just to move things faster is that the government has provided literally billions of dollars to support widespread manufacturing of a vaccine before we know whether it's going to be efficacious.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the risk there is financial, right?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: So if the science does not bear out that any of these vaccines are safe and effective, those doses are going to get thrown away.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: The FDA has a advisory committee that is private citizens, they're academicians, scientists, subject matter experts that are advising the FDA, and they are being appropriately cautious in terms of what criteria a vaccine would need to meet in order to meet either an EUA or a regular approval.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: They don't work for pharmaceutical companies, so they have no motive to put something out there that is not safe and effective.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: And likewise, the ACIP, who would then recommend a vaccine once it's FDA approved, is also entirely private citizens.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: They're not CDC employees, they're not pharmaceutical employees.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: Observing these meetings, I've been so impressed at how thoroughly the data is being looked at, how cautious people are being, and everyone really wants to do the right thing.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: And they know they really probably only have one chance to get this right.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: So they do not want to rush anything to market and have it go bad and then lose all credibility forevermore.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the process is really, really sound.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: We just need to be really, really transparent about what this process is and be honest about what we don't know at the time that the vaccines do become available.
• 19:52
  unknown: Dr.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Dries, that was one of the best explanations and comprehensive explanations that I've heard.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: With all that you have explained, we are able to articulate it correctly to all our staff on how we communicate it to everyone.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's gonna make a huge difference.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: One of the key elements for this outbreak or for this vaccine development has been how it gets communicated.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really where the key would be.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Another element I was thinking while you were speaking on this was about the data that will become available once the trials have come to fruition and the review of those trials and that information might also help us articulate the case for vaccine.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk about the purpose of ACIP and the role it plays in the greater vaccine schedules and planning?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: So the ACIP, again, is a committee of the CDC.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: It is staffed by CDC employees, but the 15 voting members are not CDC employees.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: But the process basically is a pharmaceutical company will develop the vaccine, do their clinical work, submit to the FDA for approval.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: The FDA then decides whether this vaccine is to be approved or not.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: And they have a couple different mechanisms to do that, like we've talked about.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: Once a vaccine is approved, whether it's under EUA or not, then the ACIP will review and say whether they actually recommend that vaccine and for what populations.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: So an example, a non-COVID example is for the earlier shingles vaccine.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: So the FDA approved the vaccine for 50 and above.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: The ACIP recommended it for 60 and above because the data was stronger and they felt like the cost-effectiveness data was not there for the ages 50 to 60.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: So the ACIP is not obligated to approve something or recommend something once the FDA has approved it.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: Given the close working relationships we've had, the ACIP has had with the FDA all along.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: I believe everybody's on the same page and that they all want the same thing.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: The ACIP can and does make an independent decision from FDA.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then once that ACIP recommendation comes out in MMWR, then that obligates insurance companies to cover the vaccine and the vaccine schedules are updated annually and that sort of thing.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: In the case of COVID vaccines, the government has said that the cost of these vaccines will be covered.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: So no one should really have to pay out of pocket for them.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: So the insurance issue is probably less of a critical role there.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: But again, the ACIP had decided to recommend or not recommend each vaccine as an individual candidate, as opposed to what they do for flu vaccines, is they review flu vaccines as a whole.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: They don't kind of split individual candidates up for different populations and that sort of thing.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: So even after the healthcare providers are vaccinated, how critical will appropriate PPE still be in the healthcare settings?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: So vaccines are really one tool in the toolbox, right?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: So you wouldn't, if you're driving your car, you wouldn't turn off your airbags just because you have your seatbelt on.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: All these things together, as we're just getting started, we are not going to have enough people vaccinated to make a difference in terms of community spread or herd immunity.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's recommended that 50 to 70% of people will need to be vaccinated to achieve a reasonable herd immunity where we may be able to quote unquote go back to normal, but it will take a while to get there.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: So doing all the other things that we've been doing is still really critical.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: And even, you know, for an individual provider, once you're vaccinated, that doesn't mean that you can stop using your PPE when you care for patients, just because we don't know on an individual level how robustly people will respond.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, obviously we don't know yet what the data looks like from these phase three trials.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: But again, you just want to protect yourself in as many different ways as possible.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's very helpful.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: The next question is a question that's asked of us all the time.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Will you get the vaccine and will you encourage your family members to get vaccinated as well?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the most important things for any vaccine in terms of public acceptance is that it's recommended by a healthcare provider.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think that we can expect anybody to be vaccinated if we ourselves are not comfortable getting that vaccine.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: At this point, obviously I want to see the data.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: The early, the phase one and phase two data looks encouraging for these vaccine candidates in terms of the antibody responses that they generate.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: But until we see the phase three data to see that that actually prevents COVID illness, I certainly would reserve a decision.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: But yes, absolutely, if the data looks good and the vaccines are approved by FDA and recommended by ACIP, I am very confident that the safety and efficacy data are strong enough to make those approvals happen.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, I would, you know, again, I can't expect any other healthcare provider in my hospital to get vaccinated if I don't feel comfortable doing that myself.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the message I think we need to all share to really increase confidence within the healthcare workforce, which is what's going to be needed to increase confidence among the public in general.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: You really nailed it pretty precisely that we do need to look at the trial data and information.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Once we have the recommendations from FDA as well as the ACIP and the data from the trials is available, I think getting vaccinated ourselves is going to be crucial in our ability to have others get vaccinated.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Those are all really, really great points, and I really appreciate your perspective.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate our speaker for sharing her perspective and experiences.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you, Waleed.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's been great talking with you and sharing this information with the Shay membership.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast can be accessed on Shay's Online Education Center, Learning CE, under the Rapid Response Program.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: You will also find resources such as recorded webinars, healthcare facility outbreak preparedness, and the SHA COVID-19 town halls.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: You can now receive 50% off 2021 SHA membership using the coupon welcome 2021 during your checkout.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: That concludes this episode of Rapid Response Podcast.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for tuning in.