Latest / DEADBUG SAYS / Tales From The Bottom Down #11 W/ Jack Luna

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Tales From The Bottom Down #11 W/ Jack Luna · DEADBUG SAYS

0:10
[SPEAKER_04]: We live in an age where every corner you turn, there's someone waiting in the shadows.
0:18
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the lips, or a switchblade deck.
0:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, lies in manipulation, but they do the blade to the day.
0:32
[SPEAKER_04]: And you're looking to set yourself free.
0:35
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll keep walking.
0:37
[SPEAKER_04]: I love the edge of that cliff, because these materials will both be lit up.
0:49
[SPEAKER_04]: If you are here, while there's no excuses, because you signed up to it.
0:54
[SPEAKER_04]: So you sit down, shut the fuck up, smoke him if you got him, and enjoy, or not.
1:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Because you are entering a no-go zone.
1:04
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm not talking about my eyes, oh.
1:08
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm talking about Tails from the bottom there.
1:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm dead bugging.
1:12
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm here with my boy, Jackaluna.
1:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Jack, you know, good son of a bitch.
1:16
[SPEAKER_04]: How you doing?
1:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm here.
1:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad.
1:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Smoke him if you got him.
1:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna smoke him because I got him.
1:22
[SPEAKER_01]: How you doing, Debug?
1:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm alive.
1:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess that's something.
1:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Now first, let me take care of a little bit of business, Jack.
1:29
[SPEAKER_04]: If you listen into this here, podcast over on your podcast, provide a like Spotify Rappel.
1:35
[SPEAKER_04]: This is complimentary and it's something that you usually find over on Patreon.
1:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Patreon is a subscription-based service that for as low as a buck.
1:43
[SPEAKER_04]: You get this and much more.
1:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Not think about it.
1:45
[SPEAKER_04]: What can you get these days for a buck?
1:47
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you can't even get a hookroom bag or dash for a buck.
1:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I guess you could, but she'd have no legs and she'd probably have flipper arms and be right around on her skateboard and give you a nasty rash.
1:58
[SPEAKER_04]: And I mean, that's the one thing we won't give you is a nasty rash, right Jack?
2:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
2:03
[SPEAKER_04]: A man of few words, I'll leave a link for everyone in the description.
2:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, Jack, I just want to jump into this episode.
2:10
[SPEAKER_04]: None of our usual pre-story, Chitty Chad.
2:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I prefer it.
2:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, me too.
2:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, Jack, you have a cry.
2:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Have a squeeze out of fuel, like one of those pretty ladies that you love standing at the proverbial altar of regret, Jack.
2:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Ha ha ha ha.
2:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I try not to.
2:26
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I really do.
2:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I try to push it down, but there are times when it,
2:31
[SPEAKER_01]: When it hits me, so yes, to answer your questions simply, yes.
2:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really don't have a problem with crying if I really feel it.
2:38
[SPEAKER_01]: But I really do try my best not to and hold it together, especially if there are people around.
2:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, because you don't want to be perceived as a scissor.
2:47
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a certain level of scissorness that is accepted within our society.
2:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm glad to hear you say that, because, yeah, I was holding back a bit there.
2:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I cry all the time, dead bug.
2:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I was crying before we started here.
3:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, Jack, I think we've spoken enough on this topic and we'll move on.
3:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, okay.
3:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for your honesty, Jack, I guess.
3:08
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought it was a safe place.
3:10
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not that safe, Jack.
3:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Why didn't you stop before you lose any more of your dignity?
3:16
[SPEAKER_04]: But now that you've got all confessional with us, Jack, and compromised yourself, I'm...
3:20
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to do you one song on a tell you story.
3:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh well.
3:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to expose my gentle side, my more feminine side, to you, Jack.
3:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
3:29
[SPEAKER_04]: And yes, sure, I might be risking ridicule and kick back from mylessness, but I'm going to take that chance, Jack.
3:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Because, Jack, if I'm being honest here, and honesty is the best policy, the closest I get to being feminine is sitting down to the capiss.
3:45
[SPEAKER_04]: That's very feminine man, but that's where I draw the line.
3:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Now Jack, I'm gonna take you back The long time ago, a time when my great passion was roller skating
3:58
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm serious Jack.
4:00
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a healthy pursuit.
4:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Lacing up and hitting the concrete and besides that, I was good Jack.
4:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe even the best.
4:09
[SPEAKER_04]: And I had the whole outfit as well, Jack.
4:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Everything.
4:12
[SPEAKER_04]: The skin tight, purple, spandex pants.
4:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Those fluorescent yellow leg warmers that came up to my knees.
4:21
[SPEAKER_04]: No way.
4:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, Jack, I was the real deal.
4:25
[SPEAKER_04]: An individual committed to the art of roller skating.
4:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Baby blue roller skates with white lightning bolts on each side.
4:32
[SPEAKER_04]: And I even had bomb bombs on him.
4:36
[SPEAKER_04]: And I know what you're thinking, Jack.
4:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Gay, but these pom-poms were skulls, knitted by my grandmother, from my dead grandfather's sweater.
4:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, what a cool, right?
4:47
[SPEAKER_04]: And in some ways, Jack, believe it or not, this was almost like a superpower.
4:53
[SPEAKER_04]: And I will go out on those streets, and I will fuck a weave in and out of the cars, go down on one foot, stick the other leg out.
5:02
[SPEAKER_04]: roll under the trucks while they're driving.
5:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Hold on to the backup buses.
5:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, Chad, I was the magic Johnson, a roller skating.
5:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, except I won't black.
5:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Or at ease.
5:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah.
5:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, that too.
5:16
[SPEAKER_04]: But if I did have it, I wouldn't tell you because, well, it's not relevant to the story, Jack.
5:22
[SPEAKER_04]: What if I did have it?
5:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I hope is a friend you wouldn't know that against me.
5:25
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
5:26
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
5:26
[SPEAKER_04]: A little bit.
5:27
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, Jack, I'm trying to tell a serious story here, so we zip it up and listen like you promised.
5:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought I'd let the Lego front though.
5:34
[SPEAKER_01]: The Lego front while you're skiing down the streets a bit much.
5:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Like with a with a fingerless leather gloves high five and fucking dudes when you cut the others.
5:43
[SPEAKER_04]: But dude, in all seriousness, I did have a pair of the fingerless gloves.
5:51
[SPEAKER_04]: It's incredible, but in all seriousness, Jack, they do protect you, you know, from scuffing your hand.
5:59
[SPEAKER_04]: I failed to see what you were.
6:02
[SPEAKER_04]: You could drag your hand along, but... You know, Luna is safe to eject you, because you're changing my emotional story into a story of ridicule.
6:09
[SPEAKER_04]: But I'm going to give this one to you, Luna, because God knows I've given you a hard time in the past for years stories.
6:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
6:14
[SPEAKER_04]: A good sport.
6:15
[SPEAKER_04]: So why were I roll a boot and one day, Jack?
6:17
[SPEAKER_04]: That's cool kids slang for roller skating.
6:20
[SPEAKER_04]: So I was at Rollis Gate one day on the mean streets of Mississauga, and it was then that I came across my arch-rival, my arch-rival and Rollis Gate.
6:32
[SPEAKER_04]: A real swinging dick, and his name was Nizadoma Dean.
6:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Sounds like Mississauga?
6:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, Judge Jack.
6:38
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, he were a Pakistani kid, and he had this big afro.
6:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, when I used to call him a Pakistani kid, I would short form it.
6:47
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a long time ago, Jack, the vernacular of the era, but he used the protest and say he's not a pack as Danny, he's from Trinidad, but I used to raise my fist and say shut the fuck up, and that will be the end of the discussion, Jack.
7:01
[SPEAKER_04]: So we'd be out in the streets doing our thing, trying to outdo each other with our stunts, going in between cars, doing our disco moves, Chris crossing our legs and whatnot, and then jumping parked benches with sleeping elbows on them.
7:14
[SPEAKER_04]: doing synchronized dance moves around parking by lawns.
7:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
7:19
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the one that's in a while you collaborate and grab hands and eat swingier head?
7:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, most definitely Jack.
7:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me tell you, it wasn't always a competition.
7:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes we'd work together to become one.
7:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Do any synchronized dance moves where I would pull through my legs and lift them over my shoulders?
7:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Or vice versa?
7:37
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a sight to behold.
7:38
[SPEAKER_04]: And on one such day when we were doing this and working on this very complex manoeuvre and a large crowded gathering was cheering.
7:46
[SPEAKER_04]: A car moving at a high speed jack mounts the sidewalk.
7:52
[SPEAKER_04]: And bumps into me and knocks me the fuck over and skids off.
7:57
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm laying that jack.
7:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, my Spandex has ripped this blood everywhere.
8:03
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm dazed because I was in the middle of a trek.
8:08
[SPEAKER_04]: and out of this 1973 black Chevy steps my father Jack oh no and he's looking down at me in the scust and you know what he says to me Jack why hangin with that standing kid Jesus Jack that's inappropriate what he said was my son's god damn liberachi that's what he said Jack liberachi and he fucking pit me up by my fucking jacket and he's screw me in the fucking car
8:38
[SPEAKER_04]: And he drove me home, Jack.
8:40
[SPEAKER_04]: He drove me home, he went straight into the garage, and he took out his hammer, and he smashed off each of the wheels on my roller skates.
8:47
[SPEAKER_04]: No way.
8:49
[SPEAKER_04]: This is tough stuff.
8:50
[SPEAKER_04]: And as I stood up in these boots, it used to have wheels on them, and I was sliding around on the garage floor.
8:55
[SPEAKER_04]: My father looked at me and discussed, and he said, one day, you will thank me for this.
9:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, this is tough stuff, really.
9:02
[SPEAKER_04]: And Jack, I'm not going to lie to you.
9:05
[SPEAKER_04]: I want straight the bed.
9:07
[SPEAKER_04]: I missed my dinner, and I lay in that bed and I cried.
9:10
[SPEAKER_04]: I cried and I cried all night.
9:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Because this is something as a 23-year-old man I had.
9:18
[SPEAKER_03]: What?
9:19
[SPEAKER_01]: You were 23 years old at the time?
9:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Well yeah, I was 23.
9:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You know the problem in my life?
9:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought you were like 12.
9:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Well Jack, fuck how could I become good in such a short time?
9:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I was 23.
9:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I had been doing this for years.
9:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Asad was probably 12.
9:33
[SPEAKER_03]: But I was 23.
9:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Jesus, Jack, are you listening to the story?
9:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Well this is tough, man.
9:42
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, this is a story that I had to share.
9:44
[SPEAKER_04]: I had to put out that Jack.
9:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, me too a little bit.
9:49
[SPEAKER_04]: I had to let you know that men can cry.
9:51
[SPEAKER_04]: It still be strong.
9:54
[SPEAKER_04]: And I feel that I've wept, but I'm still strong.
9:59
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't talk that.
10:00
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't talk that.
10:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Godhead, Jack.
10:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Godhead.
10:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Spill your guts.
10:06
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, let it all out.
10:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Be strong.
10:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
10:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh... Ah fuck man, with that story, this is going to bring it down a notch.
10:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It's when I'm doing the true crime thing there are times.
10:20
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when I'm doing the researchers and hit me so much, but when I bring it all together, and it gets to a certain part of the story, especially when it has something to do with kids, especially if it comes to a 911 call where you can hear the children say screaming in the background, happened to me recently.
10:35
[SPEAKER_01]: where you can hear the kids screaming for their father who just killed their mother and they're going to lose their dags, he's killed the mom and that happened to me recently where I just kind of broke break and I can say honestly that that's about the only time that I've cried in a long time is quite recently and publicly on an episode.
10:54
[SPEAKER_01]: but you and I had spoken about it and it hit you sometimes doesn't it what we do what we do in the moment and if you are recording it you have to ask yourself do I put this out to the public is this going to make me look like a sissy maybe even a fruit jack and the answer is no is no if it's genuine and it's coming out as long as you're not blabbering when I'm the same way
11:20
[SPEAKER_04]: when I'm doing these intense or dark cases, special children are involved in.
11:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Shit's next up there.
11:27
[SPEAKER_04]: You get overwhelmed and I usually stop.
11:32
[SPEAKER_04]: And then I'll highlight it and delete it because I just don't want to give that.
11:36
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's about giving how much you want to give of yourself to people.
11:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because it leaves you vulnerable.
11:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you want to be reborn?
11:45
[SPEAKER_04]: If you leave it in,
11:46
[SPEAKER_04]: It leaves you vulnerable to criticism, possibly.
11:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I believe myself out there all the time.
11:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So something like that, I just leave an inch.
11:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that it's honest.
11:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And I hope that the audience can understand that it's honest, but you're right.
11:58
[SPEAKER_01]: The price you pay is that someone can take it in a way and make fun of you for it or whatever.
12:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's worth it if it's genuine.
12:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they don't know what the fuck's going on and they're twisting into something that they want it to be twisted into.
12:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And if I know it's true, then I'm willing to leave it.
12:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm interested, though, you just said that so when you're doing true crime, when you're doing the stuff that we do, you've had times, where you've actually broken up a bit, eh?
12:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
12:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course.
12:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, I'm only human.
12:29
[SPEAKER_04]: And different things, the fact, man.
12:32
[SPEAKER_04]: No, sometimes I'll cry at a frustration, sadness, I'll even cry at anger.
12:38
[SPEAKER_04]: But I'm not trying to solicit any money at a people, like a lot of individuals out there on YouTube, who put their shocked face in the thumbnail, tell everybody how shocking it is all day.
12:50
[SPEAKER_04]: But that's no weakness, Jack.
12:53
[SPEAKER_04]: That's just us putting ourselves out there.
12:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree.
12:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it hits me when I relate it to something
13:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Or it has to do with the child version of myself.
13:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's something difficult I went through in the past and I can relate to it, then it suddenly brings that back and I can't help it, but for the most part, I try not to cry.
13:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to help emergency responders keep it together.
13:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know guys, the paramedics, I'm sure you do too.
13:22
[SPEAKER_01]: They say that yes, when they have a quiet moment, maybe later on that evening, when they're seeing the kids running around and play around them, they just pulled a kid out of a car.
13:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Earlier that day, it'll suddenly hit them later on, but in the moment for the most part, I'm certain that they stay very professional.
13:36
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm reminded of an incident involving myself in some emergency responders.
13:40
[SPEAKER_04]: When I did the six o'clock news,
13:42
[SPEAKER_04]: years ago I was used six o'clock news guy and that involved everything it didn't I eventually evolved into doing crime but when I was a six o'clock news guy was just doing anything that was happening in the city I worked for something called city magazine and it was just anything you know if there's an event if there's a picnic there's a part so so at at one such time I was writing around with emergency responders
14:08
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'd be in the car just to see how they're, they're daikos.
14:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And we'll recall that to a train station.
14:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Mentoronto, who we're right there.
14:16
[SPEAKER_04]: And these guys carry their emergency kits.
14:19
[SPEAKER_04]: And a woman had, I still don't know how it would have happened, but she had been pushed in or she'd fallen.
14:25
[SPEAKER_04]: This never became clear to me between the train and the ledge of the train, you know where you stand.
14:32
[SPEAKER_04]: So she'd fallen into that small truck area, that little space.
14:37
[SPEAKER_04]: and as she had fallen the train this is when the train was coming so she was stuck in between the gap you know where they say mind the gap in England we say mind the gap so you don't step into the gap she had stepped she fallen she'd been pushed whatever reason when the train was coming in and the train had come in Jack and it has twisted her body like a top.
14:56
[SPEAKER_04]: I see yeah peeled like an apple, shook like a corn, twisted right around whether
15:05
[SPEAKER_04]: No signs of injury.
15:07
[SPEAKER_04]: In fact, she seemed more annoyed.
15:08
[SPEAKER_04]: She was just there talking to everybody.
15:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And the emergency services that were talking to her, and the yelled that we had to clear the platform, and they told the other guard that they had to call her family.
15:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Get them there so as possible.
15:24
[SPEAKER_04]: And I said to the guy, well, you know, she seems fine.
15:26
[SPEAKER_04]: What's the deal here?
15:27
[SPEAKER_04]: Just look, let's just get her out.
15:29
[SPEAKER_04]: And he just looked at me.
15:30
[SPEAKER_04]: She shook his head.
15:32
[SPEAKER_04]: And he said, she's been twisted in two when the only thing holding her together is the train.
15:38
[SPEAKER_04]: If we move the train, she will fall in two and she will bleed out.
15:42
[SPEAKER_04]: There's nothing left of her.
15:43
[SPEAKER_04]: There's nothing we can do.
15:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So they brought this woman's family and they cleared the platform.
15:51
[SPEAKER_02]: They cleared the platform.
15:53
[SPEAKER_04]: They might self-included, so her family could say goodbye to her, and that woman died.
15:57
[SPEAKER_04]: They moved the train, and she died instantly.
16:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You might as well be, I mean, there's a lot of pieces of that piece.
16:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Two imagine being, imagine being the train driver, it's like, okay, hit it.
16:13
[SPEAKER_04]: And that was the one and only time that I saw a merchant's super-sponged as crying.
16:20
[SPEAKER_04]: And I cried, too.
16:22
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was angry with myself because I thought, and this isn't professional.
16:27
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
16:28
[SPEAKER_04]: And I went home and I just laid in bed and cried.
16:32
[SPEAKER_04]: And I told my girlfriend at the time, and you know, and she cried.
16:36
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was just that memory of talking to this woman who was essentially already dead.
16:43
[SPEAKER_04]: That was it for.
16:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And she didn't even know it.
16:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that when you're that close to death, you have this switch that kind of goes off.
16:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You know you're about to die.
16:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen a few times when people are about to go and they're worried about everybody around them, more so than themselves.
17:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like the endorphins go for them or something, where they become the calmest person in the room, isn't that true?
17:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an odd thing.
17:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And they said that she was in shock, and she just didn't know what was happening.
17:16
[SPEAKER_04]: And they said, what had happened to her was a one and a million thing.
17:20
[SPEAKER_04]: If she'd fallen a little sooner, she would have went on the tracks and been killed instantly.
17:23
[SPEAKER_04]: If she'd fallen a little later, she would have been thrown back on the platform.
17:29
[SPEAKER_04]: But it was just that that miller second in time that she fell.
17:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
17:35
[SPEAKER_01]: That she went in between the train and the platform.
17:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Did they clear the family away when they moved the train to leave her alone when they moved the train?
17:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I've held a couple of hands while people are passing children in homes that I work in and all that stuff.
18:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Two of them will be terrible.
18:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And they just are looking at you and I won't get into all that.
18:07
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm reminded of an image I saw when that earthquake happened.
18:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Turkey?
18:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, with a little kid died trapped under the rocks.
18:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, holding hands with his What was his grandfather or something like that?
18:22
[SPEAKER_04]: That stuff's well, um That for the grace of God, but you know, Jack, I think we're better get into our tails here Before we both start blubbering in now while I let you get yourself together.
18:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, I figure I'll go first of that.
18:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, we do
18:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Our first tale, Jack, is going to take us to North West Minneapolis, June 17th, 2021.
18:45
[SPEAKER_04]: 6.15 in the morning, Mr. Jaga, out, joined the day, getting exercise, which is important, Jack, if you want to live a long life.
19:00
[SPEAKER_04]: And as this jogger makes his way along this paved trail by the side of the Mississippi River, he sees something up ahead on a picnic bench.
19:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Perhaps someone outplaying basketball at the nearby court had left their ball there.
19:15
[SPEAKER_04]: But as they move closer Jack, they discover it's not a basketball, but as someone's head.
19:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Sitting there, with his eyes wide open, just minding his own business, looking like a goddamn religious icon.
19:31
[SPEAKER_04]: And on this hat that sits without a body, minding his own business is written the word perv.
19:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Right there on the forehead, Jack.
19:40
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a little unusual.
19:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Yet damn skipy it is.
19:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And Puff is short for Puff at front of you listeners out there who are ignorant.
19:49
[SPEAKER_04]: And there it is.
19:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Plain is a nose on your face, Jack, carved into his forehead.
19:54
[SPEAKER_04]: So this Ronald loses his shit, pisses his pants and he runs and it goes and calls the cops.
20:02
[SPEAKER_04]: And the first thing they noticed that although the weather is hot,
20:06
[SPEAKER_04]: This head has been on ice jack, it's frozen.
20:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Weird.
20:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Like a goddamn TV dinner jack.
20:17
[SPEAKER_04]: He cakes.
20:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Except this isn't swansense, and there's no peace or watery applesauce.
20:25
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, overheated brownie.
20:28
[SPEAKER_04]: None of the above jack, none of the above.
20:30
[SPEAKER_04]: And the cops, they can't figure out what's happened here.
20:33
[SPEAKER_04]: The fact that they had it been frozen, meant someone to kept it on ice and stored it.
20:38
[SPEAKER_04]: They removed it from the freezer and carved the name perven it while it was frozen, because there was no blood in the wound.
20:46
[SPEAKER_04]: And they carved it deeply, I might add, so someone made a fuck of a lot of effort, Jack, and then they go stick it on this park bench for the world to see.
20:57
[SPEAKER_04]: So after, for the next six weeks, Jack, they started finding more body parts, frozen as well.
21:04
[SPEAKER_04]: If they weren't, they had been Jack, and they were spread all over Minneapolis.
21:20
[SPEAKER_04]: On arm, they find a leg in the Mississippi River.
21:24
[SPEAKER_04]: So these body parts have been placed in different locations, some public, some not so public.
21:30
[SPEAKER_04]: But the police say, and here's the thing, Jack, the police say that they have been posed for maximum shock effect.
21:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Now they have a gun as the details.
21:39
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm not sure how you would pose a cock, right?
21:42
[SPEAKER_04]: To make it more shocking than it already is, but that's what the police say.
21:49
[SPEAKER_04]: to send an intentional message.
21:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
21:54
[SPEAKER_04]: It seems to be troubling you Jack.
21:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Speak up, your Mark's friends.
22:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was going to say, when somebody does this when they spread the body parts of part, it's like, to me, you have a better chance of your crime not being discovered bury it maybe in one spot rather than putting it out there in multiple spots.
22:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So, so your initial thought on that is like they're just trying to spread the parts.
22:20
[SPEAKER_01]: so that they can't put it all together for lack of a better term, but I mean, no, the reasoning is so that people will find it all and they're trying to terrorize the community and also further disrespect their victim in my opinion.
22:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Exact the Mundo Jack, exact the Mundo.
22:36
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's what the cops also think that this is someone who not only wants to humiliate the victim, but they want to send out a message.
22:45
[SPEAKER_04]: any if you think about a jack this isn't unlike what something that the cartiles would do they do this line max go yes send a message you want to cross this this is what you want this is what you get yeah and they'll they'll have to um put the parts in plastic which is a way the unintentionally but you're preserving evidence in that too it's it's uh
23:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It's holding on to the evidence in the bag.
23:10
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not being exposed to elements and bugs and all that kind of stuff, too, which is interesting.
23:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is what the cops are thinking.
23:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Now remarkably, on not so remarkably, due to the general moral decay of modern civilization, there are CCTV cameras at each of the locations where the body parts were found jack.
23:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, but it equally won't surprise you, Jack, when I tell you that none of those cameras at the set locations were working.
23:41
[SPEAKER_04]: No, I'm not surprised.
23:43
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not.
23:43
[SPEAKER_04]: They never are.
23:44
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I have a suggestion that I could pull forward to many Apple's is local districts and councils.
23:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
23:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Perhaps they could use some of that money that they take in from people, parking tickets and fines that are ridiculously high and they could take that money and put it back into the
24:02
[SPEAKER_04]: So they would walk, what do you think, Jack?
24:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.
24:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And even when they do have the footage, it's always in a super grainy.
24:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I posted a picture on my Instagram one time.
24:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You know those photos of better space that are crystal clear of these other universes and shit out there, the new ones that we're getting from that new telescope out there.
24:21
[SPEAKER_01]: We have those images from deep-deep space and then you have a guy walking into a store about to buy a shovel and you can barely see his face because it's so pixelated.
24:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm more money needs to be put into these cameras, certainly.
24:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Priority's Jack.
24:36
[SPEAKER_04]: priorities.
24:38
[SPEAKER_04]: So the cops stop poking around and investigating this frozen head and the rest of the limbs and the cock and whatnot.
24:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And however, and there's no documentation of how they found it, they eventually find out who this gentleman and the set extremities belong to.
24:52
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm guessing this in person reports.
24:55
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is a couple of months later that they come up with
25:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Someone who was suffered from mental health issues, drug addiction.
25:10
[SPEAKER_04]: A man who has had troubles, documented troubles.
25:14
[SPEAKER_04]: He's got two kids.
25:15
[SPEAKER_04]: He has a girlfriend or had a girlfriend who were having difficulties.
25:19
[SPEAKER_04]: He has former partners.
25:22
[SPEAKER_04]: And of course, he's had issues with drugs.
25:26
[SPEAKER_04]: But by all accounts, he doesn't have an enemy in the world.
25:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Not an enemy in the world, Jack, but I'm going to put it to you that he appears to have had at least one.
25:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, he has a bit of a surprise, Jack, the autopsy show that he had no drugs in his system at the time of his death.
25:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Johnson had last been seen about a week before his death caught on a bus as CCTV camera throwing a bag of Excrument on a bus driver That's not good.
25:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I mean, we all know how bus drivers can be.
26:02
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean how many times have you gone on a tour bus?
26:04
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a last bus home You pull out your ticket and there's a bit of damage from the snow and they tell you they won't accept it and get off the bus I mean, sometimes these guys got to come in and we're looking service
26:17
[SPEAKER_01]: In my opinion, with my interactions with bus drivers, yeah, I know you agree.
26:20
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, and this was the last time he was seen, throwing a bag of fickle matter on a bus driver.
26:28
[SPEAKER_04]: because he wouldn't accept his ticket.
26:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Now I've mentioned this Johnson has two very young kids with an ex-partner who seems to be a lovely woman.
26:38
[SPEAKER_04]: She appears to be disabled.
26:40
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not sure she's always sitting.
26:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Which I guess is neither here nor that to this particular story.
26:45
[SPEAKER_04]: But they asked her about him.
26:46
[SPEAKER_04]: And she said he was a gentle kind individual.
26:51
[SPEAKER_04]: and he wouldn't hurt a hair on anyone's head.
26:55
[SPEAKER_04]: And cops spoke to several other officers as exes and they said the same thing.
26:59
[SPEAKER_04]: They were a good shed.
27:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Now you know how I feel about talking to ex-girlfriends looking for kind words.
27:04
[SPEAKER_04]: I do.
27:04
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like finding loose change in Hobos pocket.
27:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was about to say it wouldn't be the same for you.
27:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, or me, yeah, to be fair.
27:13
[SPEAKER_04]: You're never going to have an ex-girlfriend say something positive about you, you know, anything.
27:18
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, did he do that?
27:19
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, when asked you question, do you think your ex-boyfriend would fuck a corpse?
27:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I think there's just this thing possibility.
27:27
[SPEAKER_00]: He had a boner at my grandmother's funeral.
27:30
[SPEAKER_04]: The lick of the lips.
27:31
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, they decide they are.
27:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Women can be vindictive, Jack, especially exes, preparely not, Adam's exes all had good things to say about him.
27:40
[SPEAKER_04]: And by all accounts, Adam was working at turning his life around.
27:43
[SPEAKER_04]: And just the day before he attempted to check himself into a mental health facility.
27:48
[SPEAKER_04]: So tell me, Luna, in your loan at opinion.
27:51
[SPEAKER_04]: What's going on here?
27:52
[SPEAKER_04]: What's the capa?
27:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, but wait a sec, Jack.
27:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me give you the last bit of information here.
27:58
[SPEAKER_04]: This case has currently been handed over to the FBI.
28:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Now I've found the Minneapolis police and I asked for an update on this because I know someone in that press department.
28:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And she told me that they were too busy to handle this case and that they have passed it over to the FBI and they've washed the hands of it.
28:20
[SPEAKER_04]: And when they pushed this friend of mine, she said that they had found a bullet wound in one of the legs and that they figured that it was an accidental death.
28:34
[SPEAKER_03]: It was an accident that Jack, like this guy, shot himself in the leg.
28:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Did they accidentally carve the word perfect to his forehead, too?
28:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, exactly.
28:46
[SPEAKER_02]: They wouldn't, they had no comment on that, but they said that they had passed it onto the FBI.
28:50
[SPEAKER_04]: And if I want to talk to the FBI, good luck.
28:53
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, basically out, because you know, the FBI are going to be returning my calls out there.
28:56
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's where it stands.
28:57
[SPEAKER_02]: They figured the cops say they'd have no time for it, it's been passed on to the FBI, and they figured the public aren't at risk because this guy had a gunshot wound that appeared to be self-inflicted.
29:10
[SPEAKER_04]: And this wasn't a fatal gunshot wound.
29:13
[SPEAKER_04]: This wasn't what killed him.
29:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, well, the head was intact.
29:18
[SPEAKER_04]: So they don't even know what killed this, Joker.
29:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Not a fucking clue.
29:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and that's uh, like a year ago, there's a last update on this from what I'm seeing here.
29:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
29:32
[SPEAKER_04]: What are your thoughts here on this Jack?
29:34
[SPEAKER_04]: And I know it's an emotional one, so don't stack tear and up on us.
29:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll try not to.
29:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tighten up my roller skates here.
29:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Take a cheap shot, say Jack.
29:43
[SPEAKER_04]: That's so beneath you.
29:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Fuck you.
29:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Fuck you, Jack Luna.
29:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Fuck you.
29:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Up the ass until it bleeds.
29:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the thing, okay, so Perv is carved into his forehead, which gives me the impression that he had done something that nobody is aware of, and whoever did this to him felt the word, ordebug, that they're doing that as a red herring, and trying to get the public in the police to kind of dismiss him thinking, okay, this guy's a Perv who gives a fuck.
30:18
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a pedophile.
30:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, as I thought, that were to me would say Perv would be a pedophile, to me.
30:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Just screwing around with a woman or someone else's woman, that wouldn't- No, that qualifies pervert.
30:32
[SPEAKER_01]: No, definitely not.
30:32
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, this is the ultimate, you know, for me, they say, pervert, they're sending a message, but Jack, the large group of friends, and his exes, say that this isn't the case.
30:44
[SPEAKER_04]: They stand behind him and say, definitely not.
30:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you exactly what I think just on first impression.
30:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that he got into some kind of altercation with some low-down dirty people because he's in low-down dirty situations and that person might be mentally ill and they've decided to take this opportunity to have their big weird serial killer style moment where sometimes in the past there have been women who have been posed or the body parts have been strewn about and they'll carve their chest a word like whore or bitch and I'll ask you this
31:16
[SPEAKER_01]: When a woman is found with anything carved into them, it's dismissed as the perpetrator just being a sicko.
31:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that in this situation, because it's a man and the word is purve, the public is probably swayed in a small way, like, well, maybe he got what he had come into him.
31:36
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll take seriously a...
31:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Someone is sending a message, right?
31:42
[SPEAKER_04]: And then the police would think, and the public would think, this joke ahead had come in.
31:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, let me put this to you, Jack.
31:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe it were a cover up.
31:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I'll tell you something else that indicates that we're possibly on the right track here, is that this person is well thought out.
31:58
[SPEAKER_01]: because the body is found frozen, which means they kept it for a period of time to screw up the time of death.
32:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe they're not that intelligent, but they've thought this out because they had to sit with this body for a period of time.
32:13
[SPEAKER_04]: If they froze it, well, there's a case over here in the UK that involved the murder of a schoolgirl and she was 16 years old and a name was Leanne Timon, and she'd been abducted just before Christmas returning from a shopping trip with a friend.
32:27
[SPEAKER_04]: and they found her body the following year in August, laying in the forest, and it was perfectly preserved.
32:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Although it was eight months later, when they found him, she looked like she was taking a nap in the grass.
32:42
[SPEAKER_04]: And then when forensics went check the body, they had found out that she had been in and out of the freezer.
32:49
[SPEAKER_04]: And they figured that the guy that the pedophile had been taken in or in or in and out of the freezer.
32:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Fucker than he put her back in.
32:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
32:58
[SPEAKER_04]: and then he take her out again when he wanted to use her.
33:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Look at God damn TV dinner jack in and out.
33:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Now here's where the real cleverness comes Jack and I'm giving people credit for being clever when I don't know him.
33:12
[SPEAKER_04]: But no one knew whether she was sexually salted or not, because
33:18
[SPEAKER_04]: she was being taken in and out of the freezer because of this all the forensics DNA were damaged.
33:26
[SPEAKER_04]: So they saw things like inner tearing and the general information or whatnot, but they couldn't
33:35
[SPEAKER_04]: They couldn't link it to any sexual or anything sexual, and they eventually arrested a pedophile, but they couldn't arrest him for sexual violating it.
33:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And family and friends, they were happy with that.
33:46
[SPEAKER_04]: They didn't want to dig any deeper, because they didn't want to think the unthinkable.
33:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Not wanting the victim to be treated in such a heinous way.
33:55
[SPEAKER_04]: I put it to you while I was taking her in the net of the freezer so much to watch a movie with, movie nightingales.
34:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, extending it for that purpose so you think that these guys did this because they're smart or this is just totally By check
34:13
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a few answers to that question, but I'm leaning towards the person doing this probably inner dispute between the two.
34:22
[SPEAKER_01]: The person is fucked up.
34:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe there's a group of them who did this and they decided to freeze the body obviously and then when it came time to getting rid of it, they decided to have some fun with it.
34:33
[SPEAKER_01]: stirring it about the city.
34:35
[SPEAKER_01]: But when I say about the the frozen thing and trying to disrupt the time of death and all that, that was Richard Caclinski, the hitman, they called him the iceman.
34:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, I mean, I'll be sure.
34:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, who would do that?
34:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:51
[SPEAKER_01]: He did that for that purpose so I don't want to put them in the same category whoever did this as that I just think that he didn't know what to do with them for a period of time and then decided hey, maybe we'll uh Big be clever.
35:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, try to be clever and they have been clever to this point.
35:07
[SPEAKER_04]: That's give him credit because they have a condom Well, the at will the FBI have said that they believe that He may have been killed in front of and I don't know why this is a group of people Right
35:21
[SPEAKER_04]: and that they're all afraid to talk and they they feel it could be cartel related but for me the piece the pieces don't fit this guy was just a junkie with mental health issues who's trying to get help he's trying to get his life together
35:37
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't see him being a big enough deal for this attention.
35:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not high level.
35:42
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
35:42
[SPEAKER_01]: You're exactly.
35:44
[SPEAKER_02]: He just looks, he just looks like a street guide, doesn't he?
35:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, just one of those wise guys going around trying, the type would be bumping a cigarette off asking if you had some change for some soup and one non.
35:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
35:53
[SPEAKER_01]: But you do have to consider that maybe he was a pervert.
35:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe there's something going on that we don't know, but I mean, he did throw a bag of shit at a fucking bus driver, which is a little weird, don't you think?
36:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, maybe he did do something loaded like sneaky and herhanted with a child or with a 14-year-old girl who's father was involved with something and found out.
36:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he was wrongly accused by whoever did this to him as doing something he didn't do, and they just figured it was him.
36:21
[SPEAKER_01]: He's...
36:22
[SPEAKER_01]: He's on the streets.
36:23
[SPEAKER_01]: He's in these strange situations.
36:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he did do something fucked up.
36:27
[SPEAKER_04]: OK, so you're saying there is a chance that this guy could of a... could be a perf.
36:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd say anybody with the word perf carved in their forehead might qualify as someone who possibly did something perverted.
36:40
[SPEAKER_04]: So why the smoke does fire Jack?
36:42
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that's what you're saying to us.
36:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, okay, okay, but then I'm I'm gonna throw it back to you Jack and we just throw it back to you Yeah, and I'm gonna say that maybe it's just people hating on homeless fucking around and maybe the police Who say that to busy to handle the case?
37:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Because they say they say it was a self-inflicted wound and he wasn't murdered I'm gonna say to you that it's just the cops saying we don't give a fuck because it's just another stuff who's a homeless person
37:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I can totally agree with that.
37:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And giving the information to the public that he had the word per card to his forehead, don't you think that's a piece of information they should probably kept to themselves?
37:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think so.
37:27
[SPEAKER_02]: To well, I did keep it in the beginning because this reminds me a lot of that story.
37:30
[SPEAKER_04]: You told me about the guy in Houston or was it Arizona who said, oh, oh, the homeless guy.
37:40
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, he's just victimized for being homeless.
37:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, does.
37:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, does.
37:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Just fucking around with them.
37:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
37:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, dude, putting his head on a bench, I see this bench now.
37:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It's right when you come in down that path, when you're running or you're riding your bike, it's just off the road.
38:00
[SPEAKER_01]: The person who dropped these pieces off could have been riding a bike themselves, which might be indicative of them being within the homeless community, because you know this homeless guy, so just steal fucking Amazon boxes off of Portuguese shit.
38:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Could be like a group of one of these guys, a friend of his, somebody he knows,
38:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And to start dropping them around this park bench, they didn't even clean this bench off uh, which is reminiscent of that case too.
38:22
[SPEAKER_04]: There's blood there, which makes you wonder what park surfaces are spending all that money on because they certainly aren't spending it on working CCTV cameras.
38:30
[SPEAKER_04]: So there you have it, Jack.
38:32
[SPEAKER_04]: As of this episode of Tales From The Bottom Down, this case remains unsolved.
38:38
[SPEAKER_04]: And if there are leads, they ain't telling us, and we both give an our thoughts on it.
38:42
[SPEAKER_04]: So, and for me, this is a sad one because he's obviously falling through the cracks of society and he's trying to pull himself back up.
38:51
[SPEAKER_04]: He's got two young children.
38:55
[SPEAKER_04]: A pretty girlfriend, ex-girlfriend who still appears to love him.
39:00
[SPEAKER_04]: And in cases like this, I always think that everybody is someone's child, you know, every one of these people have a mother and family members, that will miss them and, you know, I don't hold much hope of this case getting solved because I think priority wise, a druggy and a homeless man.
39:21
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's not high on the list, let's be honest here, I think it's crossed and if there are any updates I'll pass them along.
39:30
[SPEAKER_04]: So what do you got for us, Jack?
39:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I'm good.
39:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, so.
39:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna take my dark tail to a small skiing village in Colorado, the name of it is Breking Ridge.
39:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going back to early 1982 dead bug.
39:49
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the late evening of January this 6th.
39:52
[SPEAKER_01]: 1982.
39:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice.
39:54
[SPEAKER_04]: This is my favorite year for True Crime.
39:57
[SPEAKER_04]: I just love everything about it.
39:59
[SPEAKER_04]: The smells, the sounds, the yellowed photographs.
40:06
[SPEAKER_04]: It just, for me, I love this year.
40:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I know you can.
40:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a snowstorm.
40:12
[SPEAKER_01]: that is brought this former mining town at the base of the Rocky Mountains 10 mile range to a standstill.
40:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll try to paint the pitcher a bit for you.
40:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you would see this on a postcard.
40:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You might think that Santa Claus lives in this little mountain village going from a bird's eye view.
40:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's this snowstorm rolling in.
40:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Something similar to what's going on inside.
40:35
[SPEAKER_01]: My little garage studio in the middle and nowhere right now dead bug.
40:38
[SPEAKER_01]: We're currently being swallowed by a spring snowstorm out here, and it's early morning, not late evening as it is in the story, but you know, it's dark outside, and whatever this happens, these storms roll in, to small places like Breking Ridge and this meant community or out in the Prairie where I'm at, I just, that's how I picture it.
40:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It's being swallowed, you know, a little patch of people huddled in their homes, being swallowed by the storm.
41:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And like I said, it's 1982 and back then you didn't have everyone tuned to their cell phones for whether alerts, the news would get around through word of mouth.
41:16
[SPEAKER_01]: You do like the farmers or whoever would know about this.
41:19
[SPEAKER_01]: They looked at their, they're all manac and they know what's about that happened.
41:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And well, you remember when we were kids, remember when your kid jack you'd wake up and now my basement was my bedroom was in the basement.
41:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And you would wake up.
41:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And you knew it was a snow day because you couldn't hear cars.
41:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's interesting.
41:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that ends everything.
41:42
[SPEAKER_04]: It just insulates everything that beautiful snow silence.
41:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
41:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
41:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't live in the basement, but I had this weird room that should have been a closet and outside of my window, that's where they piled on the garbage.
41:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, that would dead in the noise, but I could look at the window and I would see, I would just see the sheets of snow coming down and I'd think the same would be like, wow, it's going to be, everything felt very different.
42:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you said, yeah, the sounds of no cars out there.
42:11
[SPEAKER_04]: That gentle crunching sound is the wheels ran over the snow.
42:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yes.
42:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, people struggling to get to work because it could be a snowed as a snowed for the kids, but often workers would be pushed to go to work to regard this, right?
42:24
[SPEAKER_01]: The plight of the common man, Jazz.
42:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyways, this is what's happening and people...
42:31
[SPEAKER_01]: They would meet up at the Old Town Saloon here in Brecking Ridge.
42:36
[SPEAKER_01]: They'd ride up the storm together when this type of thing would happen.
42:40
[SPEAKER_01]: They know next day they probably won't have to go to work because it's going to be real bad.
42:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Treacherous.
42:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's hills.
42:45
[SPEAKER_01]: and uh... when you get a snowstorm in a hilly area that everything shut down you can't fucking drive through the stuff it doesn't matter how it doesn't matter if you have chains on your tires it shuts it down and I guess the location means that the snowplows but there's probably not a lot of snowplows hitting the roads like they are in Toronto or something right yes no there is there is there is they probably have one snowplow like where i'm at good luck you know that's this the plows coming in a couple of days
43:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So, they ride out the storm together surrounded by mountains and trees, drinking at the downtown Saloon.
43:22
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so much history to bug in this place.
43:24
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a haunted little place, initially brought to life by the gold rush, like I said.
43:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think you'd like this spot.
43:29
[SPEAKER_01]: You already said that you like this time.
43:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But this spot in particular, it's very historic, colorful.
43:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Because of its history, but also the buildings are all kind of different colors.
43:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a, and so
43:44
[SPEAKER_01]: and
43:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, back in the 80s, I think you would have liked it.
43:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe not today.
43:50
[SPEAKER_01]: The hipsters have taken it over and pacified it quite a bit, but back then, I think you would have really liked it.
43:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds ideal.
43:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Beautiful.
43:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You might be in that saloon and joining the company of a couple of blondes as the bar lights flickered in the old wooden saloon shifted with each buffered of the storm.
44:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice, nice.
44:10
[SPEAKER_04]: You know the place.
44:11
[SPEAKER_04]: I do Jack, me shit now with a rum and a coke and a big boner.
44:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, with your... with your... with the wheels of your fucking roller skates knocked off, sitting down, just taking a break with a few lines.
44:26
[SPEAKER_04]: But I wouldn't be wearing the roller skates, because that would be embarrassing.
44:29
[SPEAKER_04]: I would just be sitting that with them, so these women know what I was into.
44:34
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'd just be chilling.
44:36
[SPEAKER_04]: A chilling jack.
44:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Marked if you will, but chicks dig a guy in roller skates.
44:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, especially the way that you would hang on to them, they would be tied together with the shoelaces they'd be around your neck, I'm assuming.
44:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You got them right, they would be jacked, but I'm getting the feeling that this flattery is turning quickly in the mockery.
44:54
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, I'll move, so speaking of blondes, it'll be the misfortune of two of them to get stuck with that a ride home this night.
45:02
[SPEAKER_01]: both had been in town drinking, and neither would make it home.
45:07
[SPEAKER_01]: At least one of them was drinking.
45:09
[SPEAKER_04]: And let me interrupt you right here, Jack.
45:10
[SPEAKER_04]: These are good looking girls.
45:12
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you're failing to tell a listeners this, but these girls are tasty, Jack.
45:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
45:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, classic plans of the era.
45:20
[SPEAKER_04]: They look like sunshine girls.
45:22
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, page three sunshine girls from the Toronto Sun.
45:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, these two girls could be sunshine girls, Jack.
45:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm familiar with the sunshine boys, but yeah, I heard that there was sunshine girls in that paper to watch out, I'm starting to get worried about it.
45:37
[SPEAKER_04]: But they would have the fact that I believe for Muroma that the sunshine boys were on page 47.
45:42
[SPEAKER_04]: That's exactly the fate of those, certain man who would enjoy that sort of thing.
45:46
[SPEAKER_04]: At the Sunshine Boys, we think we talked about this before.
45:48
[SPEAKER_04]: They were in black and white.
45:50
[SPEAKER_04]: That is correct, Jack.
45:51
[SPEAKER_04]: You had to match the bait in black and white.
45:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't believe they were doing that to us.
45:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So homophobic.
45:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Trying to take away from the sexiness of the situation.
46:01
[SPEAKER_01]: But these girls, they like the feathered, you know, the blonde hair.
46:12
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the moment I was looking for.
46:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So, their loved ones initially assume they'd weathered at the storm and shacked up with friends.
46:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're not too worried when they don't come home that evening.
46:24
[SPEAKER_01]: The first one I'll talk to you about is a net shnie.
46:27
[SPEAKER_01]: She was 21 years old working as a cocktail, right, waitress.
46:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And she also worked at the holiday in town in Brekingridge, this small Colorado town.
46:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And the pretty blonde had left working around 430pm.
46:42
[SPEAKER_01]: She had a prescription to pick up from the pharmacy.
46:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And a net, she would often hitchhike home, something that was commonplace in the area and beyond, back in 82.
46:53
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was, it was.
46:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but this place, in particular, because everyone considered it really safe to do it there.
47:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone knows everybody in this town.
47:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the population was around 5,000 people.
47:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And usually you wouldn't be picking up a ride or grabbing a ride from a stranger, it'd be someone you knew.
47:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
47:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And these two girls were known to hitchhike, but they also were known to be very careful about doing so.
47:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So they would normally just take a ride from someone that they knew.
47:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And they wouldn't take rides from two men in a vehicle, which is a, I know intelligent move back then, you should only take rides from a single driver.
47:33
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's a 21-year-old girl at, I mean, living out in the middle of nowhere.
47:37
[SPEAKER_04]: So I mean, although smart, I mean, it's not street smart.
47:40
[SPEAKER_04]: She sounds like a country girl to me.
47:41
[SPEAKER_04]: And she looks, but does she's gorgeous?
47:46
[SPEAKER_01]: This 21-year-old, she goes missing at 4.30.
47:49
[SPEAKER_01]: The last time people see her is either at a bar or just walking along the street after the pharmacy.
47:55
[SPEAKER_01]: She would go for drinks after work sometimes.
47:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, she was a cocktail waitress and knew the scene.
48:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But she won't turn up again until the following summer.
48:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus.
48:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to leave it at that for now.
48:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And move on to the details of these other vanished blonde, this dark and stormy night, because what happens to her, we know more immediately.
48:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It is 29-year-old Bobby Joe Oberholzer.
48:23
[SPEAKER_01]: who had been out celebrating a promotion from Secretary to Office Manager of a real estate office.
48:28
[SPEAKER_01]: She worked at.
48:29
[SPEAKER_01]: She was out having drinks with the friends, certainly.
48:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And like in that, Bobby Joe wouldn't make it home.
48:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Her husband, Jeff, would become worried and headed around midnight looking for a young wife, braving the elements and checking in every bar to know a veil.
48:48
[SPEAKER_01]: He even goes to some of her friends, places, and he ends up waking people up, and they're like, no, last time we saw her, it was around 7.30, Jeff, so he's very worried.
48:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a worry.
49:00
[SPEAKER_04]: And she's a good looking girl.
49:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, she's a good looking girl, she's a good looking girl.
49:05
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, if she wasn't, you'd be less worried.
49:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, she's okay, fucking, you know, she's okay, so she's out somewhere.
49:12
[SPEAKER_02]: but you know she's so fucking ugly I don't care she'll be back there's no one's gonna hurt if she's safe because I mean that's jack that is a general rule in life that one is a grass but if you're you're really fucking ugly you're okay you're safe
49:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it's one plus of that, but unfortunately for her, it's not the case in her situation.
49:37
[SPEAKER_01]: She is very pretty and if I would say it might be thinking, I don't know, the relationship maybe she went off with another guy, you know, that's a possibility, but Jeff doesn't think so.
49:49
[SPEAKER_01]: They're close and they have a great relationship.
49:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Well no guy ever thinks so.
49:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's face it.
49:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
49:56
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what you're going to do?
49:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Never.
49:59
[SPEAKER_04]: She's got me.
50:00
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, never.
50:01
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's always a possibility, Jack.
50:03
[SPEAKER_04]: You know why I used to have a saying is a kid.
50:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Women are like cute little kittens.
50:07
[SPEAKER_04]: And if the cute little kittens chances are that they've got no, and you can take that to the bank, Jack.
50:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Tell all your friends.
50:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead, Jack.
50:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead and tell them.
50:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
50:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know.
50:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:18
[SPEAKER_04]: If you're ugly, you're protected by genetics.
50:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Tired old cats and up at the pound.
50:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Fight for scraps at the junkyard.
50:27
[SPEAKER_04]: You better stop right there.
50:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Jack will get misogynistic.
50:29
[SPEAKER_04]: So this guy basically thinks that his woman hasn't run off with someone else.
50:33
[SPEAKER_04]: If he suspects fall play.
50:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
50:35
[SPEAKER_04]: And I know that he's concerned about her because she regularly hitchhikes.
50:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Bobby Joe, like young and netted often hitchhiked after work, Jeff, uh, he'd been concerned about this habit of his wives.
50:45
[SPEAKER_01]: He'd given Bobby Joe a heavy brass ring.
50:48
[SPEAKER_01]: It would be car keys, but she doesn't have a car.
50:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what exactly what it looks like.
50:51
[SPEAKER_04]: It looks like a big brass ring with a hook.
50:55
[SPEAKER_04]: At the end of it.
50:57
[SPEAKER_04]: that you can wrap around your knuckles and it certainly looks like it could do some damage.
51:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's got a hook, yes.
51:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's given it to her so that she could keep it on her and place it over two fingers.
51:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It's big enough for that for her to slide two fingers in, went alone, and the idea being she could use it like a brass knuckle if in danger.
51:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what it looks like brass knuckles.
51:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you ever been hit with brass knuckles or someone holding a bar in their hand like a metal bar in their hand?
51:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you ever been punched with that or hit anybody with that?
51:23
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but I can't imagine it being a pleasant experience.
51:26
[SPEAKER_01]: What about you, Jack?
51:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you ever been kissed by your brass sweetheart?
51:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I have, so, you know, I've been in fights and been punched in the face and all that, but I once was in an argument with a group of guys with my friends, and one of them came at me and sideswept me with a metal bar in his hand, punched me in the side of the head and knocked me out cold.
51:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Jesus.
51:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, unfortunately, I had my friends around to kind of crowd around me and dragged me out, but it was like lights out, man.
51:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Lights, it was like, hit with a brick.
51:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Jesus, Jack, where do you and your buddies hang out at?
51:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Because exercise yacht?
51:56
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm gonna get the positive thing, this is what you were with your friends.
52:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was a cheap shot, but unlike any punch I've ever taken in my life with that metal bar on the guy's hand.
52:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So, even a lighter, even a lighter held in your hand will make the difference of just a...
52:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Stabilizing the knuckles to get a good clean shot.
52:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'll keep that in mind the next time the mailman is late.
52:17
[SPEAKER_04]: But we're digress in here, Jack, carry on.
52:19
[SPEAKER_01]: We have two pretty blondes, vanished under cover of the previous night's blizzard, in this sleepy ski resort village, nestled in the mounds, and I'll say that they find Bobby Joe.
52:30
[SPEAKER_01]: who's husband is looking for almost immediately.
52:33
[SPEAKER_01]: A rancher discovers her wallet the next morning.
52:36
[SPEAKER_01]: The contents of it are blowing around his driveway.
52:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
52:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Around 730 AM he finds this evidence.
52:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And with this information, he's able to go to the phone book and get a hold of the husband, overhauled sir, and he answers.
52:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And he comes over to the ranch, the ranch for tells him where he's at, he's not too far away.
53:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And Jeff begins looking around and finds his wife's backpack in a snow drift.
53:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Also one of Bobby Joe's gloves with blood on it, some Kleenex with blood on it.
53:13
[SPEAKER_01]: The brass ring, the brass ring that he gave her, he doesn't discover it right away.
53:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's lost in the snow when they find it later.
53:20
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's also in the driveway.
53:23
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a terrible thing that you'd have to find your loved one like this.
53:29
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just terrible.
53:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Something I'm guessing just being ahead forever, just terrible to go out to have your fears confirmed, which I'm guessing they were when you found her body.
53:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and he begins doing the investigation.
53:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Jeff, right away, I mean, he rounds up some friends.
53:46
[SPEAKER_01]: It's funny because it's 82, so it's not like you're just calling people on your cell phone.
53:50
[SPEAKER_01]: He's driving around in this shitty weather now, right?
53:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the next morning, the plows that we talk about have come through, he's slipping and he's sliding, but he gets up a group of friends, and they begin cross-country skiing.
54:02
[SPEAKER_01]: A nearby pass, I think, was called Huzoor Pass, where Bobby Joe was known to at times, he checked through after work.
54:10
[SPEAKER_01]: and they soon discover her body in the snow, dead but.
54:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Frozen.
54:16
[SPEAKER_04]: So the police don't discover the body?
54:18
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
54:19
[SPEAKER_04]: And I guess because in these rural areas when these big snowstorms hit us, no friends move in, the only way to move around is on skis.
54:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Cross country skiing.
54:30
[SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly what's happened.
54:32
[SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly what's happened.
54:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So they find the body it's frozen in the shadow of a mountain.
54:39
[SPEAKER_01]: and investigators are soon on the scene.
54:42
[SPEAKER_01]: It's possible they bring fire trucks out there, which can get through a lot more, or maybe a plow, maybe they do get the plow to plow through.
54:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that information, but I'm assuming this kind of thing happened to be able to clear the way.
54:53
[SPEAKER_01]: She is closed on one of her wrists, there's a zip tie.
55:00
[SPEAKER_01]: She's been shot in the chest.
55:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Terrifying because when you see that twist tie, you know that she was incapacitated and she wasn't able to move.
55:08
[SPEAKER_04]: These are the same sort of twist ties that the cops use when they want to arrest a lot of people at once.
55:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, especially if there's a group they want to quickly apprehend a few people and just disable them while they figure out what's going on.
55:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean you can only imagine the terror that this young woman must have felt.
55:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So she's been shot in the chest.
55:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And some accounts say twice in the face.
55:30
[SPEAKER_01]: But I read that her husband Jeff identified her by her face in the body bag.
55:35
[SPEAKER_01]: See what happened was the cross-country skiers get there, they're able to notify the police.
55:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Jeff's not quite on the scene yet when the police get there and by the time he does get there, they have put her in a body bag already.
55:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And he has to ask them to unzip it to expose her face and he breaks down crying, yeah that's her, that's my wife.
55:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, let's not this count how being shot in the face.
55:58
[SPEAKER_04]: I've been in a few crime scenes and sometimes the bullet wounds can be little holes.
56:04
[SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't even look like a bullet wound and it doesn't mess up the rest of the face.
56:08
[SPEAKER_04]: It just all depends on the caliber and the positioning.
56:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
56:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.
56:13
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
56:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Could be like I said, it's conflicting accounts, but so in the same article that I read on this, which was giving me actual quotes from Jeff and the
56:26
[SPEAKER_01]: it is said in that one that she's been shot twice in the chest.
56:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But an important detail here, there is an orange woman's sock, like it's clearly a woman's sock.
56:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It's orange found by the body.
56:38
[SPEAKER_04]: And the interesting part about this, although it's a woman's sock, it doesn't belong to the victim.
56:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll get to that, but the husband Jeff, he is considered to be the prime suspect right off the bat, though there's no proof that he's done this.
56:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's pretty standard practice when you're investigating the unexplained death of a loved one.
56:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
56:59
[SPEAKER_01]: it is, it is.
57:01
[SPEAKER_01]: But he doesn't do himself any favors to him, but because when Jeff learns of 21-year-old Annette Schnee disappearing the same night, in one of his many interviews with police, later, you know weeks later, he claims to have had a premonition that this other girl in that is going to be found just a few miles from his house on July 4th of 1982, Jesus.
57:26
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like a sear, like he thinks that he is a psychic or something.
57:30
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, listen, I'm starting to have some visions.
57:33
[SPEAKER_04]: So he's a scoothe say, a crescan, a goddamn hill, Billy Nostrid Thomas.
57:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, he's just, he's also very, I guess, on as it's hard to say that about someone who claims something like that because he's, I'll maybe stupid Jack.
57:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You initially think he's a fucking wacko, right?
57:53
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's being honest, he's had these dreams about this other girl being found.
57:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And Debug, she is found on July 3rd.
58:01
[SPEAKER_01]: of 82.
58:02
[SPEAKER_01]: He said July 4th, she's found what?
58:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Like six much later.
58:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Six months later.
58:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
58:09
[SPEAKER_01]: In the summer and he's already said July 4th, he's found a July 3rd by a young boy fishing.
58:17
[SPEAKER_01]: He discovers a net shnie's body in Sacramento Creek, which is only seven miles from Jeff the Witterwars house.
58:24
[SPEAKER_01]: who says she'll be found near my house on July 4th.
58:28
[SPEAKER_04]: And this kid finds a almost in that location.
58:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Faced down in a crack.
58:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
58:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's fishing and he goes runs to his father and his father calls police.
58:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So when they get there to this creek, they find that she's been shot in the back.
58:45
[SPEAKER_01]: She's faced down.
58:47
[SPEAKER_01]: The water, she'd been frozen over the rest of the winter there.
58:51
[SPEAKER_01]: There's an exit wound at her chest.
58:53
[SPEAKER_01]: The angle they can see upon a besking further is that it was downward at about 30 degrees indicating she may have been running away down the hill towards the creek when she was gunned down.
59:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Or... She'd been executed.
59:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
59:09
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, here's the way, Jack.
59:10
[SPEAKER_04]: What a...
59:12
[SPEAKER_04]: a horrible way to go, a horrible way.
59:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't imagine which way it would be worse.
59:18
[SPEAKER_01]: But for me, her running away thinking maybe she's free and then getting gunned down.
59:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's the thing, both victims didn't die from their wounds initially.
59:28
[SPEAKER_01]: They both died from the elements they'd do.
59:31
[SPEAKER_01]: How horrible, Jack.
59:33
[SPEAKER_01]: How horrible.
59:35
[SPEAKER_04]: What a way feel life to be ended
59:41
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't even imagine.
59:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And in these elements, the cold.
59:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
59:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So in Bobby Joe, the first girl's case, they think she escaped the vehicle, I'll get to that, and she was shot, and then left there to die in the elements.
59:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And it would be a slow death because the blood would be like molasses because of the temperatures and the freezing.
59:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I never thought about that.
59:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It would categorize in a way, maybe, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight
1:00:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the other girl in Nat, they think that she escaped as well, or he let her go, and as she was running away, shot her, that's one of the possibilities that she crawled into the creek, crawled onto the frozen creek and eventually sunk into it.
1:00:20
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, that's too, they think that that's probably when her fuck.
1:00:25
[SPEAKER_01]: The similarities in these girls' murders are, are disturbing.
1:00:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, check this out then.
1:00:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So, one thing is that the bullet that is recovered from a net and the bullet that is recovered from the Bobby Joe crime scene, they figure out that it came from the same gun, that which ties the two, but also tying the two murders is that, on a net, when they find it in the creek, she has a barefoot and the other one has an orange soccer.
1:00:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, this is disturbing Jack.
1:00:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It's disturbing, but it can only lead to one conclusion, the same guy, the same guy.
1:01:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Bingo the same night hours apart and I'll get to that as well because I'll kind of paint paint the scene for us But also in this younger girl like a net's possession is one of John Oberholzer's business cards Who is the husband of the other victim who's being seen as the prime suspect My life right Jack a business guy for his small appliance repair company.
1:01:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I bet he wanted to repair and get inside a hot piping
1:01:35
[SPEAKER_04]: So he's something doesn't seem right here, Jack.
1:01:37
[SPEAKER_04]: This girl doesn't seem to me the type who'd worry about her fridge being broken, right?
1:01:42
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, he, he is questioned on that.
1:01:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And he goes, oh shit, because he's been saying, he's been saying to this point, I haven't met this guy, I've no idea who this is, because they questioned him on a net.
1:01:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when they find the card, they ask him again, and he's like, oh wait a minute.
1:01:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember picking your up hitchhiking and I gave her a business card.
1:02:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I always do that.
1:02:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I always give everybody my business Yeah, I bet you do So they're like this John John's John's done both of these.
1:02:11
[SPEAKER_01]: One thing I should mention is that a net had She wasn't just in her sock in her bare foot.
1:02:18
[SPEAKER_01]: She had boots on and they were on the wrong feet
1:02:22
[SPEAKER_02]: because it says Jack that there's no sign of sexual interference but her her her boots were on the wrong feet and as it was broken.
1:02:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you got it.
1:02:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Investigators they figured that is that John must depict up a niche knee on her way home on January 6th of 82 and killed her.
1:02:41
[SPEAKER_01]: clothing on the body looks to have been put on funny like he said like in a rush the boots are on the wrong feet the zippers broken on the jeans at the ideas that John raped her somewhere in the woods had her put her clothes back on then driven her to the creek and let her go and decide to execute her as she was running away or just straight up executed her underneath and she rolled down the hill.
1:03:01
[SPEAKER_04]: I like that I like the thought that uh not like but I like is the theory that that he did let her go let's say he's lighting her
1:03:11
[SPEAKER_01]: and then he shot her.
1:03:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a little better that forcing someone on their knees than I'm knowing, yeah.
1:03:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Because maybe she had a second of hope.
1:03:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, me too.
1:03:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So she apparently, and that had lost her sock.
1:03:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is just what they're hypothesizing.
1:03:29
[SPEAKER_01]: They think that she had lost her sock in John's truck because when John allegedly later picked up then shot his wife at 730,
1:03:39
[SPEAKER_01]: The sock fell out when she got out of the vehicle to run away from John and fell onto the ground when she got out, which is incredible that the sock would have been left in the vehicle and then dragged out by the next victim later, linking the two crime scenes.
1:03:53
[SPEAKER_01]: This is incredible.
1:03:55
[SPEAKER_01]: This is incredible.
1:03:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is what they're thinking.
1:03:58
[SPEAKER_02]: But why would he kill his own wife and then go out and get someone else who looks just as tasty?
1:04:03
[SPEAKER_01]: You got it.
1:04:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the thing is, he didn't kill his fucking wife.
1:04:07
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't do this.
1:04:09
[SPEAKER_01]: John, he passes polygraphs a couple of them.
1:04:12
[SPEAKER_01]: He also has an alibi of being at work.
1:04:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Then with friends.
1:04:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Iron tight alibis, because polygraphs aren't admissible in court.
1:04:20
[SPEAKER_01]: right.
1:04:21
[SPEAKER_01]: No, they're not iron tight, but he does have an alibi as well.
1:04:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's enough for the case to go cold for four decades, only fuck.
1:04:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And in that time, DNA found at the murder scenes, when DNA comes to be valid.
1:04:40
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
1:04:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It clears John all the hearts are completely, he's cleared based on the DNA.
1:04:46
[SPEAKER_01]: The blood that's on his wife's club is not his blood.
1:04:48
[SPEAKER_01]: It's another man.
1:04:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
1:04:50
[SPEAKER_01]: How soon was he cleared?
1:04:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Did this take years from to be cleared until DNA took years?
1:04:54
[SPEAKER_02]: So he was always a suspect.
1:04:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he was exiled from the community.
1:04:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody thought that it was him.
1:05:00
[SPEAKER_01]: No one would let him in their house, so you had no friends all the sudden he had to move.
1:05:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But even though he had an alibi and the polygraph said that he didn't do it, the public opinion in the cops and the cops, the cops thought he was him the whole time.
1:05:18
[SPEAKER_01]: In a small they just didn't have enough to go on because he passed the polygraph and because he had an alibi.
1:05:23
[SPEAKER_04]: And I guess there's always a chance that the alibi could be faked and we all know that cycle pass can occasionally pass a polygraph test.
1:05:33
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so there you go, they should doubt.
1:05:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I psychopath to be good at that, right?
1:05:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Because they don't feel all that guilt, and they don't get nervous, and all the things that set off a polygraph.
1:05:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So he, so this guy's life, this guy's life was Roni lost his wife and he's accused of this heinous crime.
1:05:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:05:49
[SPEAKER_01]: One thing that did clear him initially because the DNA had an evolved to the point and I'm not completely schooled on this, but whatever it was that they could tell that the blood type, not the DNA, but the blood type was not his type.
1:06:01
[SPEAKER_01]: They at least had that initially, which further ruled him out in the, in the cops eyes.
1:06:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But the DNA, when it came to be,
1:06:08
[SPEAKER_01]: really, you know, strong, strong form of evidence to be able to use, they were able to tell that it wasn't his DNA.
1:06:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So it'll take until 2018 in the popular use of genetic genealogy for investigators to begin to hone in on the true killer.
1:06:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It comes down to a Brecken Ridge residence, resident, a former minor who would have been 30 in 1982 and in the area, his name is Alan Lee Phillips, and at this point he's in his late sixties he's the owner of a mechanic shop.
1:06:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And investigators have been looking at his brothers and nieces and stuff because the way that they get a hit on this is if one of them have applied to find out their genealogy through where the sites we all know how works with the Golden State Killer that's how they got him.
1:07:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And they find that Alan Lee Phillips lives in the fucking town, where these two women were murdered, so they obviously are going to look at Alan Lee Phillips.
1:07:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, they approached his brother first, and his brother said, no, he has lived there.
1:07:15
[SPEAKER_04]: But I got an estranged brother who lives there.
1:07:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Who is Alan Lee Phillips?
1:07:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You got it.
1:07:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And investigators, they start staking him out.
1:07:25
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a bit of a hermit living in this hovel.
1:07:30
[SPEAKER_01]: The desperate to get a sample of his DNA.
1:07:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, I shouldn't say hollow.
1:07:33
[SPEAKER_01]: He did have money.
1:07:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just, you know, he's a hermit.
1:07:36
[SPEAKER_01]: He actually got married, had three kids, had a couple of stepkids, but I believe he's single at this point in kind of living alone.
1:07:42
[SPEAKER_01]: They stake at his home, winning on Garbage Day, frame to bring out some trash, and week after week did bug on Garbage Day.
1:07:49
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't emerge from the house of the garbage.
1:07:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, what the fuck is this guy putting his garbage?
1:07:55
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't put his garbage out to a bug.
1:07:57
[SPEAKER_01]: They think he's possibly burning it.
1:08:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Which?
1:08:01
[SPEAKER_01]: is a little suspicious.
1:08:02
[SPEAKER_01]: That's definitely a reason for concern.
1:08:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And it'll take a while for investigators to get a break.
1:08:09
[SPEAKER_01]: They finally ended up following him to a sonic restaurant, a little puke and go.
1:08:13
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, okay, he's eating in there.
1:08:16
[SPEAKER_01]: He comes out with a bag and they follow him to the post office.
1:08:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they see him bring the bag into the post office.
1:08:23
[SPEAKER_01]: But when he emerges from the post office, he only has his mail and not the bag.
1:08:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So the office is going to the post office.
1:08:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And they find his trash bag from Sonic, and they retrieve a napkin from the bag that he wiped his face with.
1:08:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Then go, you got your saliva.
1:08:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:08:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And the match that they make is one and a trillion that it's not him.
1:08:48
[SPEAKER_01]: It's absolutely him.
1:08:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And they make the arrest weekslayers long as it takes to make the match.
1:08:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And the old man at this point, he's shocked to be putting cuts.
1:08:59
[SPEAKER_01]: They say his mouth is just hanging open.
1:09:00
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not saying anything.
1:09:01
[SPEAKER_01]: He's just cleaning the police shock.
1:09:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm assuming that he'd heard about the Golden State Killer thing, or just about the genius.
1:09:07
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why he's not putting it in his garbage, right?
1:09:09
[SPEAKER_04]: This guy is one kg son of a bitch, Jack.
1:09:13
[SPEAKER_04]: And like you said, when you see the picture, I'm getting arrested.
1:09:16
[SPEAKER_04]: He never saw it.
1:09:17
[SPEAKER_04]: He never saw it coming.
1:09:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so he's dead to rights with the DNA evidence.
1:09:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Alan Lee Phillips denies the charges.
1:09:27
[SPEAKER_01]: It's soon found he'd been accused of picking a girl a lot when he was in his early 20s, taking her to an abandoned cabin, raping her, tempting the rape her, beating the girl over the head with a rock, trying to kill her before deciding to let her go when she begged him enough.
1:09:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And he ended up serving six months in prison for that violent attack.
1:09:49
[SPEAKER_01]: back when he was in his early twenties.
1:09:51
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
1:09:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So there you go.
1:09:53
[SPEAKER_01]: With his history of violence, right?
1:09:55
[SPEAKER_01]: He's their man in the DNA evidence, obviously.
1:09:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's no data better.
1:09:59
[SPEAKER_01]: He's been living under their noses this entire time.
1:10:01
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a friend of every many in the community because there's a mechanic business, although he is a hermit, because he doesn't want to get too close to anybody because he has this hanging over his head.
1:10:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So Phillips is arrested in February of 2021, and it's then that they
1:10:19
[SPEAKER_01]: They'd actually had them the night of the murders and nobody put it together.
1:10:23
[SPEAKER_01]: That night, Deb Buck, January 6th of 82, Alan Phillips had become stuck, while driving his pickup through a dangerous pass in the mountains nearby the two murder scenes, and this is unbelievable.
1:10:36
[SPEAKER_01]: He was drunk and attempting to avoid detection when the blizzard caused him to slide backwards into a ditch.
1:10:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Phillips.
1:10:44
[SPEAKER_01]: He tried to walk.
1:10:45
[SPEAKER_01]: This is like a ram in a try to walk away from his vehicle, but it was too cold for him to get anywhere where he can get help.
1:10:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And he realized he's probably going to die out there.
1:10:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so cold.
1:10:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It's getting shut down by the blizzard.
1:10:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Or at the very least, have a very uncomfortable night.
1:11:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And he returns to his truck.
1:11:03
[SPEAKER_01]: He's drunk.
1:11:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Very drunk.
1:11:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I worn out from murdering two young women because we know that that's what he just done now.
1:11:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's stuck as a result of wanting to keep a low profile after these murders.
1:11:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything I discussed about Jeff Oberholzer, the hypothesis of how he killed these girls, and what has initially thought to have been Jeff's wild night of murder, this man, Alan Phillips, has actually just completed.
1:11:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So, he'd first stolen a net, Schnee, around 430pm, just as the clouds were rolling in.
1:11:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And it Schnee whom he rapes a gunpoint in the woods before ordering her to get dressed,
1:11:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he was gonna go and let her go dead bug.
1:11:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Why I get her to dress again, you know?
1:11:49
[SPEAKER_01]: He'd let the first girl go.
1:11:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he probably had second thoughts when he let her go and decided to shoot her down by the creek as she tried to get away.
1:12:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Fuck, we already discussed how they both froze after being shot that initially died from their wounds.
1:12:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And then apparently, hungry for more, he heads back in the town to find another girl.
1:12:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Jesus Christ, I mean, what are the odds that you find two girls as good looking in the fuck ass needle and nowhere?
1:12:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we're in the fuck ass, both of them are where.
1:12:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And these girls could be, there could be models.
1:12:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Both of the thumma.
1:12:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Both of the thumma and both, they think, probably, were familiar with him.
1:12:33
[SPEAKER_02]: He was known in town, so... Maybe the trust, and that's what he does.
1:12:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, he's a known guy while he's 30 years old at that time, but he would have been around the bars and that was a barkeeper like she was a cocktail waitress and it's not that he knew both of them, they were familiar with them.
1:12:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So it also I heard it said that he likely had picked them up before.
1:12:59
[SPEAKER_01]: He was one of the guys who would pick up the girls when he was coming through ten.
1:13:03
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just like everybody helped everybody out when it came to the hitchhiking, especially young good looking blons or just trying to get home after work.
1:13:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So Bobby Joe has picked up around 730 pm as the weather is getting really bad.
1:13:16
[SPEAKER_01]: she was trying to get home to her husband Jeff before it was too late and she had to hunker down with friends as he assumed initially that she had done.
1:13:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And when Alan Phillips brought her out to Hoosier Pass and put a gun in her face.
1:13:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Slapped a zip tie on one wrist, means to disable her so he could rap her by a mountain face, under the cover of Darkness on the Inveloping Blizzard, she'd fought him, dead bug.
1:13:41
[SPEAKER_01]: The thought is that she got the best of Phillips hitting him hard with the brass ring, Jeff had given Bobby Joe for such an occasion.
1:13:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, wow.
1:13:50
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is a sturdy girl.
1:13:51
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean this looks like a sturdy girl.
1:13:52
[SPEAKER_04]: She's a good looking girl, but she looks healthy, a healthy country girl like that can public give.
1:13:57
[SPEAKER_04]: If she needs to.
1:13:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And she did, I'll get to it in a second.
1:14:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Like so Phillips being drunk and surprised by the supercharged punch to the forehead by this basically a brass knuckle.
1:14:07
[SPEAKER_01]: He takes the gun off of her because he's a requirement for his head and shit.
1:14:11
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, what the fuck?
1:14:12
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got a big gash over his right eyebrow where she cut him open.
1:14:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And when Bobby Joe had tried to run, she gets out of the passenger side, he'd recovered, and shot her dead.
1:14:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Then gone driving around tossing her belongings at the window, and that's when the rancher found it, and all that kind of stuff later on.
1:14:29
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what they believe happened.
1:14:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Chase.
1:14:33
[SPEAKER_04]: So, they never confessed any of this.
1:14:35
[SPEAKER_04]: This is just what the investigators...
1:14:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
1:14:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Believe top, and he never admitted to it.
1:14:41
[SPEAKER_01]: But we need to come back to him being stuck in that snowdrift that night.
1:14:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So after trying to covertly get back home after a wild Wednesday night, it's a Wednesday, by the way.
1:14:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Through a particularly harrowing section called Gwanella Pass, where nobody in the right mind would be driving an storm, it's around midnight when a pasture plane flies over him, stuck, and destitute and worried for his life.
1:15:06
[SPEAKER_01]: and Alan Phillips begins flashing his headlights SOS.
1:15:09
[SPEAKER_01]: That's three short, three long, three short flashes of his headlights.
1:15:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And this passenger jet is going overhead.
1:15:17
[SPEAKER_01]: with a hundred odd people on it when there's just all happening.
1:15:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
1:15:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And so initially I thought it was like a sess now or something like that, right?
1:15:25
[SPEAKER_01]: But from when I read further as it's an actual pasture plane, it doesn't have a shit little people on it, but can hold like a hundred hundred people on it.
1:15:33
[SPEAKER_01]: This is starting to get a bit crazy.
1:15:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I mentioned, the back end of its truck had got stuck, which left his headlights pointed skyward.
1:15:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And incredibly a local sheriff's deputy from the area is on the flight above looking at his window and sees the distress single down below.
1:15:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And he tells the pilot and the pilot radios it in, which is unbelievable luck for Philips down there as he was eventually going to freeze.
1:15:58
[SPEAKER_01]: like he stuck in the middle of a mountain pass in the in this blizzard and he likely would have preserved for a while the temperatures are frigid well it's jack it's about 35 below with windshield factor that's pretty fucking cold that's pretty cold you're not going to live thought that long in it
1:16:13
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but so lucky that his vehicle went ass and so that his lights were pointed skyward for the SOS to work.
1:16:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm believe that lucky that you have a sheriff's deputy who knows what SOS is.
1:16:28
[SPEAKER_01]: What are the odds?
1:16:31
[SPEAKER_01]: That's insane.
1:16:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So even luckier when the fire department comes out to rescue him, they don't put it together.
1:16:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Later when they hear about the two other girls being murdered, they just think that Alan Phillips with a gash on his head when they find him, they just think he was hammered out by these two murder scenes by chance.
1:16:51
[SPEAKER_01]: and they just laughed it off with the killer who claimed to have hit his head on his truck while drunkily taking a piss Jesus Christ and they'll snow hit him in the face and he fell and he hit his head on his truck Jesus Christ I mean you know this is and you'd wish this guy were to fucking frozen to death yeah
1:17:10
[SPEAKER_01]: some comments on that a little bit later, so I'm starting to wrap it up here, but the truth as we know Deb bugged was that he'd been struck by the brass ring about Bobby Joe's.
1:17:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Blood found on that brass ring and on her glove later would be part of the DNA evidence that would bring him down.
1:17:25
[SPEAKER_01]: a Colorado newspaper article from January of 82 has the story of Bobby Joe Oberholzer's body being found and the story of her killer's miraculous SOS rescue side by side in the news paper.
1:17:40
[SPEAKER_01]: The story is right there, like literally connected by print dead bug.
1:17:45
[SPEAKER_01]: They're right beside these two articles, but it'll take 40 years for them to fucking connect it.
1:17:50
[SPEAKER_01]: They even have a photo of Alan Phillips for the paper in this article.
1:17:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have the Bobby Joe missing, where is she?
1:17:57
[SPEAKER_01]: There's her killer in the article doing the SOS signal.
1:18:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, hello, I'm the one I did it.
1:18:02
[SPEAKER_01]: That is insane.
1:18:05
[SPEAKER_01]: It's insane that this prick was able to continue living.
1:18:10
[SPEAKER_01]: 40 years.
1:18:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So like we know, he gets arrested.
1:18:14
[SPEAKER_01]: The DNA, all that shit, 2021.
1:18:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Phillip wants the case to go to trial.
1:18:19
[SPEAKER_01]: He hires a pretty expensive defense lawyer.
1:18:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And they try to blame old Jeff Oberholzer, like the poor guy hasn't been through enough.
1:18:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So he has been a Bobby Joe.
1:18:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:18:29
[SPEAKER_01]: They claim that he, they claim that he killed his wife because she brought home cold pizza the night before.
1:18:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Something that Jeff in his detrimental honesty, it's shared while being in a terror case They're like if you're getting a fight to the- well last night, we had a fight She brought home cold pizza was pretty pissed about it and they think this is the reason she just cries I mean, I can see the point of view.
1:18:53
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, no one likes cold pizza, but I mean to kill over it I mean, come on Jack, come on
1:19:00
[SPEAKER_01]: and the other girl too.
1:19:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:19:02
[SPEAKER_01]: He'd also, he'd also shared, while being interrogated, you know, the psychic musings on where I next snow would be found.
1:19:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Shit, shell.
1:19:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I know a girl named Snall, I keep saying snall.
1:19:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Shell had been found.
1:19:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And, but when they put the blood and Bobby Joe's glove,
1:19:18
[SPEAKER_01]: As a result of her bobbing philips in the fore and causing a gash when they put that blood in the DNA match to philips Bengal in front of the jury.
1:19:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and they said that it's one in 17-quid Jrilion Which is two in a quarter to million times Earth's population wouldn't have been able to water down that result anybody else other than him
1:19:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So, ballistics, you know, they match the bullets, the orange sock, tie, and etched now to the Bobby Joe case.
1:19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: He's dead to write.
1:19:50
[SPEAKER_01]: He shows no emotion in court, but unfortunately after being convicted in sentenced to two life sentences, Alan Lee Phillips dies at 72, just recently in prison.
1:20:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I say that, it's unfortunate because it's believed he could have been a serial killer and responsible for more murders, and there was hope that he could get some confessions out of him.
1:20:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Without a doubt I mean because I mean he's just killed now.
1:20:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, why do we stand for me?
1:20:15
[SPEAKER_02]: It seemed very Clear on this.
1:20:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean did he did he fuck both the girls?
1:20:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, he did rape and that shell because her closing was put back in one half a night
1:20:33
[SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't, he wanted to rape Bobby Joe, but Bobby Joe fought him off before he could get the zip tie attached to our other wrist.
1:20:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And she punched him in the head with the brass ring and tried to escape out the bridge.
1:20:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Which is a real boner killer if you get punched by a brass knuckle.
1:20:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it pushed me out of the mood.
1:20:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, anytime it's happened to me, it's done the same.
1:20:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I try, but it's difficult.
1:20:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So, they still have his DNA, and the investigation continues, Deb, but we'll see what more we learn this fascinating case is time goes on.
1:21:04
[SPEAKER_01]: This guy's definitely a serial killer.
1:21:06
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you just don't just don't suddenly get up at a bed and kill two women in one night and then quit.
1:21:11
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
1:21:12
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I agree.
1:21:15
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a quote from Alan Lee Phillips.
1:21:17
[SPEAKER_01]: We have from his first known victim, the one who survived when he was in his early 20s.
1:21:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:21:22
[SPEAKER_01]: She remembered him saying as he tried to kill her with a rock quote, I don't know.
1:21:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why I do this and quote.
1:21:33
[SPEAKER_04]: I say that very same thing every time I piss on the toilet sea jack.
1:21:42
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, I don't know why I do this.
1:21:45
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the same as when you wear it, you get that little p-drip when you come out of the bathroom in the office and everybody sees it.
1:21:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
1:21:53
[SPEAKER_04]: No matter how many times I shake a jack, there's still a lot of little wet spot.
1:22:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, dabbing it your stuff with your palm.
1:22:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll stop messing with your roller skating story.
1:22:10
[SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, I'll call myself a stockjack.
1:22:13
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll put up to you and now you're just throwing it back on my face at every opportunity.
1:22:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you need a tissue jack?
1:22:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and tell me shall we care about each other.
1:22:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I think at this point.
1:22:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, I think you may be right.
1:22:28
[SPEAKER_04]: So at this point, Jack, we don't know if this guy's a serial killer or not.
1:22:32
[SPEAKER_04]: But him saying, I don't know why I do this.
1:22:35
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's kind of a giveaway.
1:22:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:22:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
1:22:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So one more quote, this is from Dave Montoya, the fire chief of the time who helped rescue Alan Phillips.
1:22:47
[SPEAKER_01]: He would later say, quote, had I known I would have left him there.
1:22:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he continues with some of our own thoughts that we've said here so far, again, further in the quote, he goes, who has luck like that?
1:23:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, really, you commit two murders, you get stuck up at the top of a past trying to flee the scene and everything else, and you get stuck where you know you're probably going to die and you ask for mercy from God and you get it?
1:23:12
[SPEAKER_04]: If you were to write this into a movie that a guy murders two girls, he gets stuck in the snow, ass up, flashes his SOS signal to a plane, and that happens to be a cop inside that plane who knows how to read SOS.
1:23:27
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they tell you you would joke and that it was unbelievable.
1:23:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've never said I'm in trouble believing myself.
1:23:32
[SPEAKER_01]: When I found out the detail of him going in backwards, that made sense to me, but it's just like the incredible luck of it for him.
1:23:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it should be made into a movie.
1:23:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure it will be at some point.
1:23:43
[SPEAKER_01]: You probably see it on Netflix next week, the way they gobble this shit up.
1:23:47
[SPEAKER_04]: I can picture it now with TV movie The Week starring Billy Bob Thorne and Britney Spears.
1:23:51
[SPEAKER_04]: And what a great story, Jack.
1:23:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks man.
1:23:54
[SPEAKER_01]: This was great too.
1:23:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I had a quote from you here, quote from Deadbug on this, sometimes this life leads me to despair.
1:24:02
[SPEAKER_01]: God, I'm good and that's how you feel about that.
1:24:06
[SPEAKER_01]: For 40 years he gets away from wave with it and maybe kills others too that we're not aware of.
1:24:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Well Jack, that's pretty safe to say that this guy is done up before because these were good-looking girls and you know what they say once you get the hunger.
1:24:20
[SPEAKER_04]: You've got a feed, Jack.
1:24:22
[SPEAKER_04]: You've got a feed.
1:24:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, I agree.
1:24:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, Jack, on that note, I think it's time that we say Adios.
1:24:28
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll see everybody next time on Tales from the bottom down.
1:24:32
[SPEAKER_07]: Till death to us part, till death, till death, till death.
1:24:46
[SPEAKER_07]: Till death to us part.
1:24:50
[SPEAKER_07]: Until death, until death I ain't to overtake you To hold and you have, through dark and to bed To my heart doesn't move, I choose you And I ain't to overtake you
1:25:14
[SPEAKER_07]: For better and worse, I'll accept your thirst Your smiles into my shed wounds On the wife of a bad man On the lover of the damned State tight with a killer at night Every night despite a kiss a killer good night
1:25:33
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm the wife of a bad man, I'm the lover of the day Sleep tight with a girl at night every night, I guess a killer good night I ain't gonna take you through sickness and house Through dirty cash wealth, with a broken and bruised eye take you
1:25:57
[SPEAKER_07]: And I don't take you To every night I don't sleep Every secret you pee By solemnly loud stand by you I'm the wife of a bad man I'm the lover of a damn It's the type with a killer at night Every night despite a kiss a killer at night I'm the wife of a bad man I'm the lover of a damn
1:26:26
[SPEAKER_07]: Sleep tight with the killer at night, every night, just by a kiss of killer good night To the past, who was born?
1:27:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Geez, is it just me or is there anybody else here tearing up?
1:27:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Why does a man have to be so strong?