Latest / Legally Brunette / Killer Thriller: She Burned Her Sleeping Husband Alive. Would You Have Acquitted Her?

Transcript

Killer Thriller: She Burned Her Sleeping Husband Alive. Would You Have Acquitted Her? · Legally Brunette

0:06
Speaker 1: Amy Robock and TJ.
0:07
Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan. Hey, everybody,
0:15
Speaker 2: Elisa Donovan here and this is Killer Thriller. Joining me
0:19
Speaker 2: today is the incredible Emmy nominated actor Richard Maser. Richard's
0:24
Speaker 2: remarkable career has spanned more than five decades across film, television,
0:29
Speaker 2: and Broadway, but one of his most unforgettable roles came
0:33
Speaker 2: in the groundbreaking nineteen eighty four television movie The Burning Bed,
0:38
Speaker 2: where he portrayed defense attorney Arian Gray. Danis, the lawyer
0:42
Speaker 2: who defended Francine Hughes, who killed her abusive, alcoholic husband
0:47
Speaker 2: following years of horrific domestic violence. At the time, the
0:53
Speaker 2: case forced America to confront difficult questions many people had
0:57
Speaker 2: never seriously considered. When in an in doors years of abuse,
1:01
Speaker 2: why don't they just leave? What does prolonged trauma actually
1:04
Speaker 2: do to the mind? And when the legal system fails
1:07
Speaker 2: to protect someone, where do we draw the line between
1:11
Speaker 2: justice and survival. Francine Hughes was ultimately acquitted due to
1:15
Speaker 2: temporary insanity, and burning bed syndrome, also called battered woman syndrome,
1:20
Speaker 2: became something studied by academics and used as a defense
1:23
Speaker 2: in other cases of women killing their abusers. So this
1:27
Speaker 2: was a groundbreaking case that has had a massive impact
1:30
Speaker 2: on actual policy and is considered to be a major
1:33
Speaker 2: part of laying the foundation for a modern awareness of
1:36
Speaker 2: domestic violence.
1:38
Speaker 1: Richard, Welcome to Killer Thriller. Thank you so much for
1:41
Speaker 1: speaking with me today.
1:43
Speaker 3: Hay to be here.
1:45
Speaker 2: I'm truly honored to meet you. You've had an incredible
1:50
Speaker 2: career that spans more than five decades, with memorable roles
1:54
Speaker 2: in everything. I feel like you've been in every movie
1:58
Speaker 2: and TV show ever made. But there is one project
2:04
Speaker 2: that we're going to talk about today, the Burning Bed,
2:06
Speaker 2: which wasn't just successful, it helped change the national conversation
2:12
Speaker 2: about domestic violence. And I was blown away by this
2:16
Speaker 2: movie when it came out. I was thirteen and I
2:18
Speaker 2: didn't see it then, but I remember this that I
2:21
Speaker 2: remember it happening and feeling like, oh my god, this
2:25
Speaker 2: is there's something really important happening. And so for people
2:30
Speaker 2: who aren't familiar with Francin and Hughes in this case,
2:34
Speaker 2: just walk us through what happened and what it's about.
2:38
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, it's a really long time regard
2:41
Speaker 3: for me you probably are more up on this than
2:44
Speaker 3: I am. But essentially what it's about is Barafacet played
2:49
Speaker 3: this woman who was married to a man who was
2:58
Speaker 3: very abusive, drunk. His whole family was kind of an
3:06
Speaker 3: abusive family, and that he came from. Paul um Out,
3:12
Speaker 3: who played the the husband, was just wonderful and I'll
3:18
Speaker 3: tell you a little story about that later. But and
3:22
Speaker 3: then what happened was she she had two young children,
3:26
Speaker 3: and she was tired of being abused and didn't know
3:33
Speaker 3: how to get out of it, and ended up one
3:36
Speaker 3: night he beat her up, and then he got drunk.
3:38
Speaker 3: He was really drunk, and he fell asleep in his bed,
3:42
Speaker 3: and she came into his room and she poured gastling
3:45
Speaker 3: around and she set it on fire and burned the
3:48
Speaker 3: house down with him in it, and he was passed out.
3:51
Speaker 3: He probably was unconscious through the whole thing anyway, and
3:57
Speaker 3: then she right everything. She tried going to the police
4:02
Speaker 3: for help, and so this was a murder obviously on
4:07
Speaker 3: the one hand. On the other hand, she it was
4:10
Speaker 3: self defense, was the was the claim. And I played
4:15
Speaker 3: her lawyer who came up with that defense. And it
4:20
Speaker 3: was a really it was a really extraordinary experience for
4:24
Speaker 3: all of us. Farah, who had done some really good
4:28
Speaker 3: work just prior to that. She she'd done a few
4:34
Speaker 3: dramatic roles that had really, you know, lifted her out
4:37
Speaker 3: of the Yeah, well Charlie's Angels, then all kinds of
4:44
Speaker 3: things that all the all the all the posters that
4:48
Speaker 3: cheesecakes stuff. I mean, she's a beautiful woman, and and
4:52
Speaker 3: and it really it furthered her career. But this was
4:57
Speaker 3: not about any of that. And and she really just
5:02
Speaker 3: I believe I'm not positive. I think I don't know
5:06
Speaker 3: that she got to produce this credit, but I think
5:08
Speaker 3: she was instrumental in getting the project going. I think
5:11
Speaker 3: she was very near and dear to her heart.
5:14
Speaker 1: Yeah.
5:15
Speaker 3: Bobby Greenwald, who directed it, was just a wonderful kind
5:22
Speaker 3: of visionary guy. Also, we were very lucky Grace of Risky,
5:27
Speaker 3: who played Paul's mother. I can't believe. I'm just tollling
5:30
Speaker 3: you all these names out of my mind. She was unbelievable.
5:34
Speaker 3: She's always unbelievable, great, great, great, great actress. And it
5:39
Speaker 3: was a real honor and a privilege to work with her.
5:44
Speaker 3: I'll tell you a moment that happened later on after
5:47
Speaker 3: we get into the show or whatever you want.
5:51
Speaker 2: The whole cast is really pretty spectacular. And I'm always
5:56
Speaker 2: whenever I speak about movies that you know, came out
6:01
Speaker 2: in the past, I always I'm just so sort of
6:05
Speaker 2: blown away by how it's a really powerful movie. Like
6:10
Speaker 2: it is a very very well crafted and well put
6:15
Speaker 2: together directed acted movie, and everybody is so good, including
6:20
Speaker 2: the children when they're on the stand, like everybody.
6:23
Speaker 1: It's just it's not exploitative, you know.
6:27
Speaker 2: It really walks that line of being incredibly impactful but
6:33
Speaker 2: not being exploitative, and I think that's very difficult, especially
6:37
Speaker 2: with subject matter like this.
6:40
Speaker 3: Well, I'm just going to do a little aside. I
6:43
Speaker 3: was very very fortunate to have participated in three different
6:51
Speaker 3: event movies like The Burning Bed. One was The Burning Bed.
6:55
Speaker 3: One was a picture called Fallen Angel where I played
6:58
Speaker 3: a paedophile who who groomed the little kids for child pornography.
7:05
Speaker 3: It was a really disturbing film and it completely changed
7:10
Speaker 3: that conversation. Also uh highest rated television movie of that season,
7:17
Speaker 3: which The Burning Bed also was in it season. And
7:22
Speaker 3: then another film called Adam, which was about Adam Walsh,
7:26
Speaker 3: John and Reve Walsh's son who was kidnapped and murdered,
7:30
Speaker 3: and I was fortunate enough to be in that and
7:34
Speaker 3: the sequel we did to that.
7:36
Speaker 2: I interviewed Joebeth Williams about that movie. Yeah, that was
7:40
Speaker 2: really something.
7:41
Speaker 3: She was unbelievable and and as I mean, as was
7:46
Speaker 3: Dan Travante, and it was again it was a great
7:49
Speaker 3: and we were meeting we met all the people we
7:52
Speaker 3: were playing, which was spooky. You don't always get to
7:55
Speaker 3: do that. Yes, yeah, yeah.
7:57
Speaker 1: Did you get to do that with this movie?
8:00
Speaker 3: No? No, I never met Gridanis he was. I don't know.
8:06
Speaker 3: I mean, it just wasn't something we were doing at
8:10
Speaker 3: that time. John and Revey were so integral to the
8:14
Speaker 3: making of Adam and and of course Fallen Angel. There
8:21
Speaker 3: it was. It was completely It was not based on
8:25
Speaker 3: I mean, it was based on reality, but not on
8:27
Speaker 3: a particular truth one.
8:29
Speaker 1: Specific case, right, I remember that one too.
8:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that was Yeah, that one must have really
8:36
Speaker 3: flipped you out for a long time. Yes, I knew.
8:39
Speaker 3: I knew. I knew women of a certain age because
8:43
Speaker 3: they would look at me strangely when they would see me,
8:47
Speaker 3: and I would know that they had seen Fallen Angel
8:49
Speaker 3: as young girls. Let me ask you something about Fallen
8:52
Speaker 3: Angel If I came, yes, it had this amazing rollout.
8:57
Speaker 3: I don't know if you know this. It was one
8:58
Speaker 3: of the great marketing rolottes for And first of all,
9:03
Speaker 3: there were all of the promos for the show were
9:07
Speaker 3: just a black screen with white letters. There were no pictures,
9:11
Speaker 3: no nothing. It was just blah blah, blah blah blah.
9:15
Speaker 3: And then what Jim Green did, who was one of
9:21
Speaker 3: the producers who had been in marketing uh prior to that,
9:26
Speaker 3: and with one of the networks, he sent h three
9:31
Speaker 3: quarter inch videotapes to to to the affiliates all over
9:38
Speaker 3: the country about a month before the picture was gonna
9:43
Speaker 3: come out, and and asked them to invite religious leaders
9:50
Speaker 3: and teachers and people in the community to come in
9:54
Speaker 3: and watch a screening of this. And it created this
9:58
Speaker 3: amazing buzz one. But also it created this atmosphere of
10:05
Speaker 3: don't be afraid of this film, show this film to
10:08
Speaker 3: your children, don't you know when everybody was very nervous.
10:13
Speaker 3: It was, I mean, when no one had ever done
10:15
Speaker 3: anything like this. It was It's not that it was
10:19
Speaker 3: so graphic, but it was very emotionally disturbing and anyway,
10:25
Speaker 3: so so it ran the first time, and it was
10:30
Speaker 3: the highest rated movie of the season, and then two
10:34
Speaker 3: months later they ran it again in prime time, which
10:37
Speaker 3: had never been done with a TV movie before, because
10:41
Speaker 3: the response from people who had who had not allowed
10:48
Speaker 3: their children to see the film was so intense, saying,
10:52
Speaker 3: when are you going to run this again? I need
10:55
Speaker 3: to see this with my children so we can have
10:58
Speaker 3: this conversation. And they did it, and it was the
11:03
Speaker 3: second highest rated TV movie of the season. Went around
11:06
Speaker 3: the second time, it was Oh my gosh.
11:09
Speaker 1: That is that is genius. Also though, that's a really
11:13
Speaker 1: smart way to do it.
11:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just I The only reason I told that
11:18
Speaker 3: story was because I think with all all three of
11:23
Speaker 3: these they were they were kind of seismic. They had
11:27
Speaker 3: a kind of seismic effect throughout the population. And and
11:33
Speaker 3: and I had done Phllen Angel before I did Adam, Oh.
11:37
Speaker 1: That was before. That's what I was wondering. What year
11:39
Speaker 1: was that it was?
11:41
Speaker 3: I was released in eighty nineteen eighty and and and
11:46
Speaker 3: Fallen Angel. The guy that I played, who was the
11:53
Speaker 3: man named Jay Howl, who was who was the what's
12:00
Speaker 3: the word? Uh, he was the chief assistant. I'm not
12:06
Speaker 3: thinking of the word uh to Paula losing her last name.
12:11
Speaker 3: She was a senator from Florida, and she had had
12:16
Speaker 3: been abused as a child and was very into this
12:20
Speaker 3: kind of thing and and she wanted to do legislation
12:25
Speaker 3: about it but wasn't sure what to do. And and
12:29
Speaker 3: Jay and he's he's the guy who played in in
12:32
Speaker 3: Adam Okay J Powell. Uhh. I saw a screening of
12:38
Speaker 3: this and he went Paula, oh, with someone of the
12:42
Speaker 3: w I can't remember. Anyway, he went into the senator's
12:45
Speaker 3: office and he said, I have to show you this film.
12:48
Speaker 3: And she watched the whole film. And then when and
12:52
Speaker 3: they were really like completely flipped out by this. And
12:56
Speaker 3: when when I met Jay, he came to the set
12:59
Speaker 3: while we were.
13:01
Speaker 1: Uh.
13:02
Speaker 3: And when I met him, he said, I can't believe
13:06
Speaker 3: I mean we this changed the entire conversation, uh in
13:11
Speaker 3: our office about what needed to be done, how it
13:14
Speaker 3: should be done, everything else anyway, So, I mean, this
13:18
Speaker 3: is these connections.
13:19
Speaker 1: Paula Hawkins, Paula Hockens, and.
13:21
Speaker 3: Snaky Good Research. Let's go back to the burning bed.
13:26
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, no, no, these are all I mean, this
13:29
Speaker 2: is something that you know it's incredibly meaningful to do
13:33
Speaker 2: work like this, you know, and we don't always get
13:37
Speaker 2: to do things that are you know, have such a
13:41
Speaker 2: strong and important impact.
13:43
Speaker 1: But I do believe like that is the reason that
13:46
Speaker 1: many of us get involved in this business.
13:49
Speaker 2: I mean to sort of, you know, so I feel
13:51
Speaker 2: like it can be a very noble business at moments,
13:55
Speaker 2: and things like this, like these projects are certainly those
14:01
Speaker 2: those moments.
14:01
Speaker 1: And because so the with.
14:04
Speaker 2: The Burning bed and your character you whose name is
14:09
Speaker 2: Arian graydness, I'm saying.
14:12
Speaker 3: Great, then we pronounced its.
14:14
Speaker 1: Great, Danis said, yeah, Marian graddanis.
14:18
Speaker 2: So he had the difficult job of helping a jury
14:21
Speaker 2: understand years of abuse rather than just judging a single night,
14:26
Speaker 2: so that the legal question wasn't simply did she do it,
14:30
Speaker 2: because she actually admitted that she did, but it was
14:34
Speaker 2: what happened to her over thirteen years. So how unusual
14:39
Speaker 2: was that argument at the time?
14:42
Speaker 3: Well, I I one of the reasons that the film
14:45
Speaker 3: got made is it was a very unusual argument that
14:49
Speaker 3: that that, you know, this kind of vamptive self defense
14:57
Speaker 3: from this kind of abuse could be used as a defense.
15:01
Speaker 3: Number one. Number two, I think the circumstances and also
15:05
Speaker 3: the which came across beautifully because of the way Barah
15:11
Speaker 3: played it. But but her her persona was such that
15:17
Speaker 3: she was not a violent person. She was not a
15:19
Speaker 3: you know, she was a very sweet and uh you know,
15:24
Speaker 3: a great mom and everything else. Yeah, let me for
15:29
Speaker 3: you a story about we We got to rehearse for
15:35
Speaker 3: a day, which was very unusual in a TV movie.
15:39
Speaker 3: You didn't have enough time and and and you really
15:43
Speaker 3: had to move pretty quickly. It wasn't like shooting a
15:46
Speaker 3: feature film. But but everyone wanted this to be really great,
15:50
Speaker 3: especially faris so and what we focused on primarily in
15:54
Speaker 3: the rehearsal was the courtroom. So we were we went
15:59
Speaker 3: into the set that we were going to shoot in
16:01
Speaker 3: before we ever started working, and we rehearsed through the
16:05
Speaker 3: courtroom scenes. And the first scene that I was doing
16:10
Speaker 3: with Farah on the stand, I you know, and we
16:15
Speaker 3: didn't know each other, but she was really open and nice,
16:20
Speaker 3: and I'd been around she knew who I was, you know.
16:22
Speaker 3: So I went over. I went over to her and
16:27
Speaker 3: I said, listen, when we do this, don't worry about
16:33
Speaker 3: anything except me. Stay focused on me. I'm going to
16:37
Speaker 3: take you where you need to be looking. And I
16:42
Speaker 3: don't know why I thought that was the right thing
16:45
Speaker 3: to do. It was just my idea of what I
16:47
Speaker 3: would do if I were a defense counsel and my
16:51
Speaker 3: client was on the stand, and how I wanted the
16:56
Speaker 3: jury to be seeing her, and so I stayed away.
17:01
Speaker 3: I came in and out with her, but she focused.
17:04
Speaker 3: She told me the story the entire time, and then
17:08
Speaker 3: I would lead her over to the jury box and
17:12
Speaker 3: I would stand right by the jury box, and she'd
17:15
Speaker 3: still be talking to me, but she'd be facing them,
17:18
Speaker 3: you know, and wouldn't have to deal with the discomfort
17:22
Speaker 3: of talking to people she didn't know about some of
17:25
Speaker 3: this very very intimate and disturbing stuff. And that turned
17:29
Speaker 3: out to be a very useful tactic, which when her
17:34
Speaker 3: elder daughter was on the stand and she had a
17:38
Speaker 3: really tough job, and she was a very sweet I
17:44
Speaker 3: don't know, she was eleven maybe or twelve when we
17:47
Speaker 3: did it. She was really I mean she, I mean,
17:52
Speaker 3: she was fair of us. It's daughter. She had to
17:54
Speaker 3: look kind of beautiful, you know, and she was really
17:58
Speaker 3: a sweet looking girl, and she hadn't done much of anything.
18:02
Speaker 3: So I had the same conversation with her. She was
18:06
Speaker 3: really nervous in the rehearsal, and I said, you're just
18:09
Speaker 3: talking to me, don't worry about anybody else. There's nothing
18:12
Speaker 3: else to think. And we didn't have jury members when
18:14
Speaker 3: we were doing the rehearsal, and we were just a
18:17
Speaker 3: jury bus. I said, but just stay with me, and
18:21
Speaker 3: and we did that, and then when we shot, she
18:25
Speaker 3: was like just laser folks. Then, you know, And and
18:30
Speaker 3: I did the same thing with her and Bobby and
18:33
Speaker 3: I figured out, you know, when you know, I would say,
18:39
Speaker 3: when do you want to see the jury? When do
18:40
Speaker 3: you want me to bring her over there? But I
18:43
Speaker 3: also knew when in what she was saying, it would
18:47
Speaker 3: be good to have the jury thing her full up.
19:05
Speaker 1: Those scenes are incredible.
19:08
Speaker 2: I'm so happy that you told this story because they're
19:12
Speaker 2: so powerful, the courtroom scenes. And I've got emotional when
19:17
Speaker 2: you were just telling me that because I remembered the
19:19
Speaker 2: feeling of watching it where it's incredibly intimate, like that's
19:25
Speaker 2: what you feel and there is this connection with the
19:28
Speaker 2: two of you, in particular with you and Parah where
19:31
Speaker 2: it feels like I'm getting chills. She is like I
19:36
Speaker 2: am going to trust this person, like I feel safe
19:39
Speaker 2: with this person telling him this information. You know, it's
19:44
Speaker 2: so good, it's so powerful. And that young actress who
19:49
Speaker 2: I mean, just like I'm.
19:52
Speaker 3: Going to tell you it's a spooky cruss connected story here. Okay.
19:56
Speaker 3: So I told you Abrat Fallen a Angel, and Dana
19:59
Speaker 3: who was the girl in that she was sixteen, but
20:02
Speaker 3: she was very little and she was playing like eleven
20:06
Speaker 3: twelve year old. I think she was eleven, uh in
20:10
Speaker 3: the in the show, and and and I you know,
20:15
Speaker 3: and and what what I did in Fallen Angel, which
20:19
Speaker 3: creep people out so much, was I was. All I
20:23
Speaker 3: did was I tried to be the best person she
20:27
Speaker 3: had ever met in order to get her confidence. And Okay,
20:32
Speaker 3: so when after we shot the Burning Bed, it was
20:38
Speaker 3: almost all done. It was I think the last day
20:40
Speaker 3: we were shooting, I had I was waiting around to
20:46
Speaker 3: do a some wildlnes and and in the courtroom, but
20:55
Speaker 3: Pharah was off. They were off at Fara shooting something
20:58
Speaker 3: in the jail set in the same studio, the same
21:03
Speaker 3: sound stage. So I'm sitting in the in the courtroom
21:07
Speaker 3: all by myself, and in walks the older daughter. I'm sorry,
21:13
Speaker 3: I can't remember her name. She was so wonderful. Anyway,
21:16
Speaker 3: So she walks in and says, oh, hi. She came over.
21:19
Speaker 3: She gave me a big hug, say hi, And I said, so,
21:23
Speaker 3: how you doing, because she did a lot of stuff
21:26
Speaker 3: that I never saw, you know, I said, how did
21:28
Speaker 3: the rest go? And how was that? And it she said, oh,
21:31
Speaker 3: it's great and she and she looked at me and
21:34
Speaker 3: she said, you know something, no one everybody talked to me,
21:40
Speaker 3: and everybody treated me like I was a little kid,
21:43
Speaker 3: except you. I never felt that way with you. You
21:47
Speaker 3: always just talked to me like we were on the
21:51
Speaker 3: same level. And it really, it really made a big
21:56
Speaker 3: difference to me. I really felt like you saw me
21:59
Speaker 3: and you heard me and blah blah blah. And and I said,
22:02
Speaker 3: well that's great because you were wonderful and you really responded.
22:06
Speaker 3: And while I was sitting there listening to this, this
22:10
Speaker 3: was this was almost verbadeim a line that Dana says
22:14
Speaker 3: to me in Fallen Angel about how I am in
22:18
Speaker 3: that I had, you know, and I got really weird,
22:24
Speaker 3: and a chill thing happened. And I thought, because when
22:27
Speaker 3: I was doing Fallen Angel and playing this really despicable guy,
22:32
Speaker 3: you can't play a guy you can't play a character
22:36
Speaker 3: that you don't have some compassion for, even as horrible
22:43
Speaker 3: as they are. And and I, you know, I read
22:47
Speaker 3: a lot of material about, you know, transcripts of these
22:50
Speaker 3: people being interviewed, and they always thought they were doing
22:53
Speaker 3: the right thing. They were they loved the kids so much.
22:57
Speaker 3: You know, it's really odd. And while I'm sitting there
23:01
Speaker 3: with with the I keep calling her the older daughter.
23:06
Speaker 3: I feel terrible about that. Yeah, Okay, while I'm sitting
23:10
Speaker 3: there with her and she's saying this to me, I thought,
23:13
Speaker 3: you know, if I were that guy, I could go
23:18
Speaker 3: anywhere I wanted with her. I could have her do
23:22
Speaker 3: anything I wanted her to do. And the difference between
23:26
Speaker 3: him and me is that is that little switch that
23:31
Speaker 3: that I don't flip, and that he flipped, you know.
23:35
Speaker 3: And I thought I knew that when I was doing
23:37
Speaker 3: the other role. But this was the most graphic example
23:42
Speaker 3: of that. You know. She was this lovely little about
23:46
Speaker 3: to be really blossoming little girl, and and and if
23:53
Speaker 3: I were bent that way, it was you know, it
23:57
Speaker 3: was so weird. Yeah, but it's also but it's also
24:01
Speaker 3: it's also true that I.
24:04
Speaker 1: Did Kris her name.
24:07
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I don't know if I never knew,
24:10
Speaker 3: if she I know. I ran into her a couple
24:12
Speaker 3: of years after that, I think, and she she was working,
24:15
Speaker 3: so I hopefully she does did a bunch of work.
24:19
Speaker 3: But anyway, she thank you for that. Yeah, so that's
24:25
Speaker 3: the cross connection. I want to go back to the
24:28
Speaker 3: Burning Bed because I want to tell you a couple
24:30
Speaker 3: of other things. Really greatly. I got nominated for an
24:34
Speaker 3: Emmy for this, okay, And when I got when I
24:39
Speaker 3: got the nomination, I was just sitting there, going, what Now,
24:46
Speaker 3: I did a really I did a completely good job
24:48
Speaker 3: in this in this, in this film, I delivered exactly
24:54
Speaker 3: what and I added to it. I know all of that.
24:57
Speaker 3: But PAULA. Matt killed in the movie. He killed in
25:02
Speaker 3: this movie. And well, I am one hundred percent convinced
25:06
Speaker 3: I'm saying this in public for the first time, that
25:10
Speaker 3: Paul was the person that a lot of people thought
25:13
Speaker 3: they were voting for. They knew my name, they knew
25:17
Speaker 3: my name, and they knew it was a guy in
25:20
Speaker 3: the Burning Bed, and they just went, oh, that must
25:23
Speaker 3: have been him, because they knew my name. Paul had
25:26
Speaker 3: done American graffiti and a couple of other things. I
25:29
Speaker 3: don't know how much else he done at that point,
25:33
Speaker 3: but he was not as well known in TV circles
25:35
Speaker 3: as I was, and I was one hundred percent convinced
25:39
Speaker 3: that it was a mistake. But you know, I still
25:42
Speaker 3: I'm not. I don't need to belittle myself. I was
25:45
Speaker 3: very proud of that performance, and you know, and I
25:48
Speaker 3: knew I wasn't going to win, but it was It
25:50
Speaker 3: was okay because it wasn't that kind of role.
25:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, he I mean, you're you're very humble to say that,
25:57
Speaker 2: but about yourself. His his performance is phenomenal because it's
26:03
Speaker 2: also you know, there are so many things that are
26:06
Speaker 2: heartbreaking about this, but they you know, he wasn't Mickey
26:11
Speaker 2: Hughes is not portrayed as angry every minute of the
26:14
Speaker 2: day right that he is this and the abuse it
26:18
Speaker 2: wasn't constant violence. There were apologies and promises and moments
26:23
Speaker 2: of kindness and you know which all those things are
26:26
Speaker 2: very typical and abusive dynamics. So do you think that
26:30
Speaker 2: people underestimate how difficult it is to escape an abusive relationship?
26:37
Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely, I think. I mean it's been demonstrated in
26:44
Speaker 3: in fiction many or you know, and in document and
26:53
Speaker 3: documentaries also so many times how I you know that
27:00
Speaker 3: first of all, the the fear of trying and not succeeding,
27:06
Speaker 3: very big fear. And and most people, as I understand it,
27:11
Speaker 3: who have who are in abusive relationships, make an attempt
27:17
Speaker 3: and then regret it afterward because they they they suffer
27:22
Speaker 3: tremendously afterwards. But also there's this, as you said, this
27:26
Speaker 3: character was he was charming, which is why they got together.
27:30
Speaker 3: And they didn't get together because he was abusive. They
27:33
Speaker 3: got together because it was charming, you know. And but
27:37
Speaker 3: and I'm just going to go back to one more
27:41
Speaker 3: little thing I want to give you from the courtroom
27:46
Speaker 3: in the when I when I'm cross examining Gray Subiski, okay,
27:51
Speaker 3: which is my favorite moment.
27:53
Speaker 1: She plays Mickey Hughes, the character of Mickey's mom.
27:56
Speaker 3: And and she is she is a tough, you know, countrywoman.
28:02
Speaker 3: She's played a lot of those. She's really really good
28:05
Speaker 3: at that. And I and I was trying to think,
28:10
Speaker 3: how do I, as the lawyer, how do I show
28:14
Speaker 3: them who she really is? And we never talked about it.
28:19
Speaker 3: I just I went up to her. I had a
28:21
Speaker 3: pet in my hand, I believe, and I'm talking to her.
28:23
Speaker 3: I'm asking her questions and I got really close to
28:26
Speaker 3: her and I said something that I knew would trigger her.
28:30
Speaker 3: And then as soon as I said I started to
28:35
Speaker 3: walk away, and she went like this. She swiped at me.
28:38
Speaker 3: She tried to grab me, like she was really angry,
28:42
Speaker 3: and she tried to grab me. And that was the
28:45
Speaker 3: whole This is what this boy grew up with. This
28:48
Speaker 3: is what this is what Paul's character grew up with.
28:51
Speaker 3: I think he grew up with and that's how he is.
28:55
Speaker 3: But it also said, that's that's who was in that
28:59
Speaker 3: bed and when it was burned, was that the product
29:04
Speaker 3: of that woman?
29:05
Speaker 2: That is such a great say, I remember that moment,
29:08
Speaker 2: I remember that part of the sea, and she she
29:10
Speaker 2: does it's like you have she for a second gets
29:13
Speaker 2: like you can see the violence in her.
29:15
Speaker 1: You know, she's.
29:16
Speaker 3: Trying to keep it together. She's trying to bullshit her
29:19
Speaker 3: way through and she's trying to keep it together. But
29:23
Speaker 3: but I just I and I wanted to figure out
29:26
Speaker 3: a way to trigger her. Yep. And when the first
29:28
Speaker 3: time we did it, I had, you know, Grace just
29:31
Speaker 3: went like that and it was so great. And then
29:33
Speaker 3: we did it so good yeah, you know it was.
29:37
Speaker 2: She was great to work, I mean, is another reason
29:40
Speaker 2: why this film is so powerful, because it really it
29:44
Speaker 2: tells the nuanced bits of these people's lives as best
29:49
Speaker 2: it can, so you understart can start to understand how
29:53
Speaker 2: abused people abuse people, or how someone could turn a
29:57
Speaker 2: blind eye.
29:58
Speaker 1: Or you know.
29:59
Speaker 2: One of the things that it's so heartbreaking is that
30:02
Speaker 2: Francine repeatedly asked for help she but she couldn't get it.
30:07
Speaker 2: I mean, she talked to her own family, to her mother,
30:10
Speaker 2: to his mother. She was told things like you have
30:13
Speaker 2: to take the bitter with the suite and all these
30:16
Speaker 2: things that are just and the final act, before she
30:22
Speaker 2: lights things on fire, the police actually came to the
30:26
Speaker 2: home because he had been beating her, but because they
30:29
Speaker 2: didn't witness it, they weren't able to arrest him.
30:34
Speaker 3: Right, which is crazy, right, crazy? And a lot changed.
30:40
Speaker 3: You know, you can't credit the film with all this,
30:43
Speaker 3: but a lot changed after that film in terms of
30:47
Speaker 3: how these things are dealt with. And also there are
30:50
Speaker 3: a lot more resources available, even if even if the
30:57
Speaker 3: the law enforcement isn't in a position to to take action.
31:04
Speaker 3: But also I think a lot of there's been a
31:07
Speaker 3: lot of training that's gone on also of law enforcement
31:11
Speaker 3: people to.
31:12
Speaker 4: To to remove people, at least temporarily if they're not
31:18
Speaker 4: even if they're not being arrested, when there's actual signs
31:22
Speaker 4: of abuse.
31:23
Speaker 3: And and stuff. And again it's also how do they
31:30
Speaker 3: do people go to the hospital? Do they get it documented?
31:34
Speaker 3: Is it you know? Or and if it isn't and
31:37
Speaker 3: it's like two days later, it's it's the you know,
31:42
Speaker 3: they don't have the information that the the contemporaneous information
31:47
Speaker 3: in right, right.
31:49
Speaker 2: Right, So the the real Francine who's She watched the
31:54
Speaker 2: movie with her children when it premiered, and then some
31:58
Speaker 2: members of Mickey Hughes's family publicly said they believed that
32:01
Speaker 2: it wasn't an accurate portrayal, which is not a surprise
32:05
Speaker 2: considering well.
32:06
Speaker 3: Also there was a book prior to the film, if
32:09
Speaker 3: I'm remembering, Yes, there was, and you know, and that's
32:13
Speaker 3: one of the things filmed and especially TV movies at
32:18
Speaker 3: the time, they were very very very sensitive about, uh,
32:23
Speaker 3: you know, slant you know, libel suits and slander suits
32:27
Speaker 3: and stuff like that. And consequently, once you have something
32:31
Speaker 3: come out in one format, let's say a book, and
32:34
Speaker 3: there's no legal action taken or if there is legal action,
32:38
Speaker 3: it's unsuccessful, and you're basing what you're doing almost entirely
32:44
Speaker 3: on the other work.
32:46
Speaker 1: You're you're in the clear, then you're safe, right.
32:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, And a lot I think everything we said in
32:54
Speaker 3: the courtroom was straight off the transcripts.
32:57
Speaker 2: The book was written by Faith McNulty.
33:00
Speaker 3: And I'm ninety nine percent sure that everything no, not
33:04
Speaker 3: not even straight off out of the book, but straight
33:07
Speaker 3: off the actual port transcripts. Okay, because a lot of
33:12
Speaker 3: times when you're depicting, I've done this more than once,
33:16
Speaker 3: and it's a it's a bitch to do transcribe material
33:21
Speaker 3: because people don't speak the way.
33:25
Speaker 4: I do.
33:27
Speaker 3: That don't speak the way you think they will. And
33:30
Speaker 3: uh and and uh, there are a lot of you
33:33
Speaker 3: know that, I mean your brain as or my brain.
33:37
Speaker 3: He was always correcting the grammar or or something, you know.
33:42
Speaker 3: And and sometimes and I've had like I did this
33:45
Speaker 3: other film, another true crime thing called The Demon Murder
33:50
Speaker 3: Case that I did with Kevin Bacon.
33:54
Speaker 2: I'm your one degree now, yeah, I think I'm three
33:58
Speaker 2: degrees of Kevin.
34:01
Speaker 3: No three no, no, your two degrees because.
34:04
Speaker 1: Me yes, Oh so now I'm closer that's right. I
34:07
Speaker 1: was three before. You just brought me a step closer, right.
34:11
Speaker 3: So anyway, so yeah, it was crazy, weird case. But anyway,
34:17
Speaker 3: I played also, I played his attorney. I don't remember
34:22
Speaker 3: if I was his attorney, and the press secure I
34:25
Speaker 3: don't know. I think I was Jesus, I can't remember.
34:29
Speaker 3: I think I was his attorney, but I'm not sure anyway,
34:34
Speaker 3: And my closing argument I if I if I missed
34:42
Speaker 3: the or an and we had to go back and
34:45
Speaker 3: do it again. They were paranoid about doing anything that
34:50
Speaker 3: was paraphrasing. It was a little and also a grey
34:54
Speaker 3: Danis had a real the guy who I was doing
34:57
Speaker 3: the demon murder case, he his grammar was all over
35:02
Speaker 3: the world. Man, I could not I could not retain
35:06
Speaker 3: my brain just kept trying to fix it. But the
35:09
Speaker 3: great Danas I was much easier to do much anyway.
35:13
Speaker 1: Sorry, yeah, I.
35:17
Speaker 2: Mean that was I was going to ask the question of,
35:20
Speaker 2: you know, how how to film aker's balance telling the
35:24
Speaker 2: victim story while knowing and recognizing that there are real
35:28
Speaker 2: families on every side, and how do you you know,
35:32
Speaker 2: do you think do you approach these characters differently than
35:36
Speaker 2: someone who is purely fictional.
35:40
Speaker 3: I know, I don't. I don't think so. I mean, basically,
35:43
Speaker 3: you're doing you know, my whole deal And people have
35:48
Speaker 3: said this to me over the years, but my whole
35:50
Speaker 3: deal is always I want to I want to be
35:54
Speaker 3: the guy who is supposed to be there doing what
35:57
Speaker 3: he's doing. You know. That's that's my Yeah, that's my
36:03
Speaker 3: whole orientation to it and my heroes growing up, the
36:08
Speaker 3: guys I grew up like, hoping that I would be like, well,
36:14
Speaker 3: my my main guy was Spencer Tracy, but but who
36:18
Speaker 3: I'm nothing like by the way, but but uh, but
36:22
Speaker 3: my but my later guy was was Gene Hackman, who
36:26
Speaker 3: I'm also nothing like. But the thing that both of
36:29
Speaker 3: them did that I was so taken by, uh was
36:36
Speaker 3: they they were both able to do what I just described,
36:41
Speaker 3: which is be the guy that they said they were
36:45
Speaker 3: and nothing else, you know. I mean, Tracy was Tracy
36:50
Speaker 3: could be so simple and just kill you, and and
36:56
Speaker 3: Hackman was the same. You Never, I never doubted anything
37:00
Speaker 3: that Gene Hackman did, including playing you know, oh god,
37:07
Speaker 3: what's his name the villain and Superman Lex Luthor. You know,
37:12
Speaker 3: I never doubted it. I never doubted that he was
37:15
Speaker 3: Lex Luthor, even though she was nothing like my image
37:19
Speaker 3: of Lex Luthor from reading comic books.
37:22
Speaker 1: Right, it is like nothing inflated.
37:24
Speaker 2: It's like a very authentic because now as you're talking,
37:28
Speaker 2: I have this just to go back to Fallen Angel
37:31
Speaker 2: again for a second.
37:33
Speaker 1: If that came out in eighty one.
37:35
Speaker 2: I think I was ten, so I did not see
37:37
Speaker 2: this movie, but I remember your image, your face, being
37:43
Speaker 2: on the screen and having this feeling like or maybe
37:47
Speaker 2: seeing some other something and where I knew that it
37:51
Speaker 2: was negative, right, Like I knew that this character was
37:54
Speaker 2: not a good man. But I was so confused because
37:58
Speaker 2: I remember seeing your face and feeling like.
38:01
Speaker 1: Wait, this looks like such a nice man, you know,
38:04
Speaker 1: like I And it was really confusing.
38:06
Speaker 2: So even from the standpoint of somebody who wasn't you know,
38:10
Speaker 2: I didn't watch the movie. I was too young, it
38:14
Speaker 2: was like it was real, like you were you were
38:17
Speaker 2: doing the job, like I have an image of my
38:19
Speaker 2: mind of that in my mind.
38:22
Speaker 3: Well that's I mean, that's the plan, you know. Jeff Bridges,
38:27
Speaker 3: who also I mean I can't think of him that
38:31
Speaker 3: way because we kind of came up together. But uh, Jeff,
38:38
Speaker 3: Jeff said, I'm going to misquote him. There's something like
38:44
Speaker 3: acting is about the accidents that happened and taking advantage
38:49
Speaker 3: of them. And that's that's true. That's the thing that
38:52
Speaker 3: happened with Grace, with the when Jeff snatched at me.
38:56
Speaker 2: It's such a powerful I'm so glad you brought that
38:59
Speaker 2: up because that's such a strong.
39:00
Speaker 3: Moment and and and it also it's I think that's
39:07
Speaker 3: back to what you just said about humanizing the bad guys,
39:13
Speaker 3: as it were. That's one of the things along with
39:16
Speaker 3: Paul's performance, which as you said, was very textured and
39:20
Speaker 3: a lot of things going on in it. But but
39:26
Speaker 3: knowing from that one moment how she treated her son,
39:33
Speaker 3: because she was willing to reach out to smack me
39:39
Speaker 3: way bigger than she was, and you know, she just
39:42
Speaker 3: knowing that that kind of violence that she instilled.
39:46
Speaker 2: That.
39:48
Speaker 1: That's the reaction, right.
39:50
Speaker 3: And also that she instilled that method of dealing with
39:54
Speaker 3: frustration or anger or or or any motion. That she
40:01
Speaker 3: instilled that in him, I think humanized him in retrospect,
40:07
Speaker 3: you know, even though it's it's kind of the nail
40:10
Speaker 3: in the coffin that in my opinion, that helps her
40:13
Speaker 3: get acquitted. I think it's also it also humanized him
40:19
Speaker 3: because it was like this kid didn't have a chance,
40:22
Speaker 3: he didn't have a chance.
40:39
Speaker 2: She ultimately, I think, did says something like her son
40:43
Speaker 2: wasn't right or something like that.
40:45
Speaker 1: But the dad.
40:47
Speaker 2: Just never you know, he just never succumbed to any
40:53
Speaker 2: of that and just never admitted there was anything wrong.
40:57
Speaker 2: And I just I don't even know what the question is.
41:01
Speaker 2: I feel like that sort of ability to shut something off,
41:09
Speaker 2: I don't do you think that that kind of behavior
41:12
Speaker 2: has changed that because we've become like a therapized society
41:16
Speaker 2: or something that is changed, Like, I don't know what
41:18
Speaker 2: the answer to that is.
41:19
Speaker 3: Oh, no, no, no, I mean because when you say
41:23
Speaker 3: we've become a therapized society, that's still a very small
41:28
Speaker 3: slice of the American populace that's a therapized society. I mean,
41:34
Speaker 3: I think there are a lot of people who just
41:36
Speaker 3: who you know, that's not how they grew up. It's
41:40
Speaker 3: considered weakness. You don't you don't get introspective, you know,
41:45
Speaker 3: you know, And I mean and actors, you know, actors
41:49
Speaker 3: are by nature you have to be a empathetic and
41:57
Speaker 3: you have to be also I think you have to
42:04
Speaker 3: be introspective, even though between us, I mean, I'm as
42:10
Speaker 3: as close as I may be to some of the
42:13
Speaker 3: characters that I've played, none of them is me. And
42:17
Speaker 3: I only get to do what I what what they
42:20
Speaker 3: do because that's what they do. Yeah, you know, I
42:24
Speaker 3: don't get to do that because that's what I want
42:27
Speaker 3: to do. I get to do that because that's what
42:29
Speaker 3: they do. Because if left to my own devices, I mean,
42:32
Speaker 3: I am not by nature particularly outgoing, and I'm not
42:36
Speaker 3: I'm not I'm certainly not violent. I've played a bunch
42:43
Speaker 3: of violent people. I'm not violent. I'm not you know,
42:49
Speaker 3: I'm not. I played. There was a whole period of
42:52
Speaker 3: time from the like mid eighties through the end of
42:59
Speaker 3: the nineties where everybody's dad and I was. People have
43:03
Speaker 3: come up to me and said, oh my god, you're
43:06
Speaker 3: you're the dad that I grew up with, you know,
43:09
Speaker 3: you know, always you know, And I said, but I'm
43:12
Speaker 3: not that, that's not me. I mean, their elements of
43:17
Speaker 3: me in there, but that's you know. Uh so that's
43:22
Speaker 3: you know. And Paul, by the way, perfect example, wouldn't
43:28
Speaker 3: I mean, he literally wouldn't step on an ant if
43:31
Speaker 3: he could avoided. He was so he's such a sweet,
43:35
Speaker 3: sweet man.
43:36
Speaker 2: And and and he really does look, uh, you know,
43:41
Speaker 2: like that kind of when a psychopath is taken over,
43:46
Speaker 2: you know, when you're it's like you become a different person.
43:49
Speaker 2: You really see that in his performance of the two,
43:53
Speaker 2: you know, like the kind of sweet charming side and
43:56
Speaker 2: the other like it's pretty, he's diabolically good.
44:00
Speaker 3: It's it's really true. And and and I think, you know,
44:05
Speaker 3: when I think back on it now, I said this
44:08
Speaker 3: out loud to you for the first time in public,
44:12
Speaker 3: about the feeling like I'd somehow gotten nominated by mistake.
44:17
Speaker 3: I was nominated for a supporting actor all and I
44:20
Speaker 3: bet that Paul was considered by people and probably voted
44:26
Speaker 3: for by nominated by people for best Actor. And that's
44:31
Speaker 3: that's a tough category to break through. And you know,
44:34
Speaker 3: you have movie stars, even then, you had movie stars
44:38
Speaker 3: coming in and doing things, and you had people who
44:42
Speaker 3: you know, are the whole movie and the subject of
44:46
Speaker 3: the movie not And even though in you know, as
44:50
Speaker 3: far as the lead, yeah, he's not quite the co
44:55
Speaker 3: lead in it. You know, it's really because he's dead
44:58
Speaker 3: for a big chunk of the.
44:59
Speaker 1: Mo did you did you know anything about the case,
45:04
Speaker 1: before you read the script and before you knew you
45:07
Speaker 1: did not you were unaware.
45:09
Speaker 3: No, And I was offered this role. Also, I didn't
45:13
Speaker 3: know audition for this. I don't remember. I was offered
45:17
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff back then in TV movies, but
45:21
Speaker 3: I don't remember. There must have been something something about
45:26
Speaker 3: Great Danus that Bobby was reminded of or the producers
45:31
Speaker 3: were reminded of. I don't know. Yeah, no, I knew
45:38
Speaker 3: nothing about it. And and as I said, I think, yeah,
45:43
Speaker 3: because when did this come out? I don't remember eighty.
45:45
Speaker 1: This came eighty four four.
45:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, so so yeah, and Fallen Angel, I'm pretty sure
45:52
Speaker 3: it was released in eighty.
45:54
Speaker 1: I think they said nineteen eighty one and they looked up.
45:57
Speaker 3: Oh, maybe you know what it might be. We shot
46:02
Speaker 3: it in eighty and it might have No, it's you
46:05
Speaker 3: know what was eighty was eighty? Was Fallen Angel? That
46:09
Speaker 3: was it? Yeah? So it was the year before, And
46:13
Speaker 3: that also could have been why I was offered the role,
46:16
Speaker 3: because not that they were at all the people were
46:20
Speaker 3: at all alike, but.
46:23
Speaker 2: That was but it was so successful and they were like,
46:25
Speaker 2: we want this guy and everything we do because he
46:28
Speaker 2: seems to have the magic touch, not exactly. But if
46:34
Speaker 2: somebody watches The Burning Bed today for the first time,
46:38
Speaker 2: what do you hope they take away from it?
46:42
Speaker 3: It's a great question. Well, I hope that they understand
46:46
Speaker 3: that it's true and or as true as we could
46:50
Speaker 3: make it. And I hope also they they're rooting for
46:56
Speaker 3: her and uh, and that they also understand that it's
47:07
Speaker 3: that the defense was righteous and legitimate because I that
47:13
Speaker 3: I I had an absolute belief just from reading the script,
47:18
Speaker 3: but let alone from and again, I didn't see I
47:23
Speaker 3: didn't see much of anything for her dead outside the court.
47:27
Speaker 3: I mean we had a little bit of stuff other
47:30
Speaker 3: than that, right, Yeah, I mean I didn't see all
47:32
Speaker 3: the stuff that went on with Paul and with her
47:35
Speaker 3: and all of that that was and not until I
47:39
Speaker 3: saw the film, and I was not that But I
47:42
Speaker 3: just me too, me too and her. I think did
47:46
Speaker 3: she win?
47:48
Speaker 1: She was nominated?
47:49
Speaker 2: And did we look up she was? I know she
47:54
Speaker 2: was nominated for the Emmy for the Golden Globe. I
47:57
Speaker 2: don't think that she won, right, do we have that info?
48:03
Speaker 3: Yeah?
48:04
Speaker 2: I don't think she did, which I I find. I
48:09
Speaker 2: just she's incredible in this movie, Like I just she's
48:14
Speaker 2: so good.
48:16
Speaker 3: And the thing is, you don't know, you don't know
48:19
Speaker 3: what else.
48:20
Speaker 1: Right, there was probably Yeah, it's always a question.
48:25
Speaker 2: Well, this has been amazing. I really, I'm truly honored
48:29
Speaker 2: to speak with you. I'm I'm not kidding when I
48:31
Speaker 2: say I've been a very big fan for so long,
48:34
Speaker 2: and when we started doing this podcast, I wasn't thinking
48:38
Speaker 2: about like, oh gosh, I'm going to get to talk
48:40
Speaker 2: to people that I really admire.
48:41
Speaker 1: I wasn't sort of considering that part of it. So
48:45
Speaker 1: it's a real pleasure and an honor.
48:48
Speaker 3: And what is the what is the basic theme of
48:51
Speaker 3: the show? I mean killer Shriller? You could be a horror.
48:55
Speaker 2: Thing, right, No, So it's we cover true crime uh cases,
49:01
Speaker 2: but through the narrative films and TV shows that they're
49:04
Speaker 2: based on. So I've spoken with people from who did
49:09
Speaker 2: Murdoch Death in the Family, Mandy Matteney who created it,
49:12
Speaker 2: and I spoke to spoke to Jay Smith, Cameron talked
49:16
Speaker 2: with Skeet Ulrich about the Elizabeth Smart film that he
49:21
Speaker 2: did based on her life. So it's you know, I
49:24
Speaker 2: talked to actors and producers and directors and all people,
49:29
Speaker 2: but but based on the narrative stories and how that
49:33
Speaker 2: is to like bring a real person's life to life
49:37
Speaker 2: and the responsibility of that.
49:39
Speaker 3: And you should take a look at the Demon murder Case.
49:42
Speaker 3: I'll come back and talk.
49:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's a great title.
49:47
Speaker 3: It's crazy. No, it was. It was what it was
49:50
Speaker 3: called in the press. H it was a true story
49:54
Speaker 3: of thing that happened in Connecticut. And Kevin was the lead.
50:00
Speaker 3: Andy Griffith was in it, who is such amazing man.
50:04
Speaker 3: He was so such a wonderful guy. Really, oh wow.
50:09
Speaker 1: And and.
50:12
Speaker 3: You know, for someone who was as famous as he
50:16
Speaker 3: was for as long as he was, he was so
50:20
Speaker 3: accessible and I mean, humble doesn't even get to it,
50:26
Speaker 3: you know, he was. He just did. There was no
50:29
Speaker 3: bullshit about him at all, which was so great. And
50:33
Speaker 3: I forget who else was in the film. There are
50:35
Speaker 3: a lot of really good people, it does.
50:37
Speaker 1: They're telling me here, it's already on our list.
50:41
Speaker 3: Oh cool. Well, let me know. I'll do a shorter
50:44
Speaker 3: one for you on that one. No.
50:46
Speaker 2: Never, I love the stories. This has been so lovely.
50:49
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Richard.
50:51
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you, okay, and good luck with all of this.
50:54
Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah. So well, let's maybe we'll have you
50:57
Speaker 1: back for that one? Okay, and you should watch this.
51:00
Speaker 1: You should watch The Burning Bed if you haven't watched
51:01
Speaker 1: it recently.
51:03
Speaker 3: Happen? Where where? Where did you find it?
51:05
Speaker 1: Where did you find it? Is it on Prime? Amazon Prime?
51:07
Speaker 1: It's streaming?
51:08
Speaker 3: Oh? Really? Huh?
51:10
Speaker 1: Oh for sure? Yeah, it wasn't hard to locate. Yeah. YouTube.
51:14
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, it's on YouTube.
51:16
Speaker 3: She's saying, I have watched very little of what I've done,
51:22
Speaker 3: very few. I mean back in the day when I
51:25
Speaker 3: I guessed it on a lot of things, I never
51:29
Speaker 3: watched them. I don't know why. I just because I
51:32
Speaker 3: was busy, I was doing others. Yeah.
51:34
Speaker 2: I think it's usually, especially back then, we couldn't just watch.
51:37
Speaker 1: You couldn't.
51:38
Speaker 3: It's like.
51:39
Speaker 1: Record it on a VCR maybe you know.
51:43
Speaker 3: Well I'm pre VCR also. I mean they came in
51:47
Speaker 3: well after I had started working. But a thank you,
51:50
Speaker 3: thank you, thank you.
51:53
Speaker 1: This has been great.