Latest / The You Project / #2182 The Gillespie Algorithm - David Gillespie

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#2182 The Gillespie Algorithm - David Gillespie · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I get a chance, it's Harps, it's Dave. Oh, it's
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: tiff Oh, it's us. It's the bloody project that you.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: It's five point thirty five, and it's dark dark in
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the PM. Of course, Tiffany and Cooker's back much too.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: David and my surprise, she's apparently been on some kind
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: of David Gillespie sabbatical. I'm not sure if she had
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: some kind of issue with him. I don't know if
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: they had a clash, but there seems to be some
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: kind of tension. Let's see if we can kind of
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: maybe repair some of the damage, build some kind of
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: emotional bridge in between being inspired by DJ himself. Tiff
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: what actually transpired between you and Gillspo, because you both
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: had a little dig at each other at the start there.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Well, Gillsbie came in firing about me not ever showing up,
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: and I was just reminding him that there has been
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: a recurring pattern start to emerge where you and I
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: sit here each fortnight going I wonder if Gillspo's going
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: to show up like he hasn't done it every fortnight
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: for as long as I can remember.
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: Well, he turned up tonight, Yeah, it turned up tonight. Yeah,
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: it's good.
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: See it happens.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: We might have to review the payment structure.
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: Maybe.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: I think I.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Think his punctuality could be commensurate with the wages lack
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: thereof there should be, or there could be some kind
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: of inverse correlation possibly, who knows, who knows? How have
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: you been, sir?
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: Anyway? How's life in the Sunshine State?
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: Pretty good? Pretty good? I pretty busy? Had a few
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: videos going with that again, And.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I like those. Have you seen his little
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: ai like him? Written by him, but inspired by him,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: of course? But have you seen any of them?
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Tip, I have seen one of them.
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: I think they're real good, Like, yeah, I like them, Yeah,
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: I came short. They're basically video versions of the articles
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: I write. So for the people who don't want to
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: read the article or can't be bothered listening to us
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: talk about it, they can go and watch video and
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: it takes them about three or four minutes.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: I actually think, like, I don't think you've been funny
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: when you say that, But truly, for a lot of
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: people like watching the watching the little cartoony kind of thing,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: although it's not so cartoony. Some of them are more
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: just like a little realistic kind of a like a
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: mini mini mini documentary. But yeah, very consumable and for
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: me it locks in better.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: And you know that you.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Did a or you got AI to do a summary
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: of the paper that I had published.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: I've sent that to quite a few people.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank god for this, because that other thing, that
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: one hundred age monstrosity. I'm like, yeah, I don't want
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: to read it, and I wrote it. So yeah, here's
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: here's what Gollespo's AI thinks of it. So and it's
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: funny because it's written with a bit of humor as well.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: So a question for you before we.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: Start talking about our different topics, how do you decide?
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Because you have so many balls in there, and you're
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: pretty smart, I'll give you that you're pretty smart, but
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: you don't have endless energy or time. How do you
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: decide what gets your attention?
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: I do have a schedule, so and I try pretty
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: hard to stick to it. I've tried it the other way,
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: which is just whatever interests me, and that just usually
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: ends up with me missing a lot of stuff. So
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: I each day of the week, I have two hours
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: in my calendar where I have a thing set in
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: there for that. So this morning, for example, it's the
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: day that I start work on next week's video, so
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: I will I had a two hour slot this morning.
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: That was that that was in there between six and
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: eight am. So I do that every day and try
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: as hard as I can to stick to it. Sometimes
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: that gets blown up, but yeah, I try to stick
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: to it.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: What is your productivity dependent mainly on what is it energy?
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Is it the accountability process or structure you have in place,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Like some people are really busy but not productive. Some
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: people are quite productive and not that busy. Like what
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: it's the key factor for you to stay kind of
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: doing things that you want to do at the pace
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: you want to do.
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: I can't focus. I have found I can't focus at
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: the highest level for more than about two hours. Well,
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: so I figure.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: It's like that's a bad thing. I'm like, fucking hell,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: mine's about four minutes.
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: But yeah, it's kind of something I noticed when I
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: was in university. I like a lot of people made
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: a lot of fun of the way I used to
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: study because I would do four hours a day, two
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: two hour blocks and that was and I would only
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: do it during swatvak and the exam period and the
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: rest of the time, I pretty much take the time off.
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: But in those two hour blocks, I had to be
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: one hundred percent focused, you know, And I found that
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: any more than about two hours and I just can't
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: do it. That's it for me. But if if I
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: really lock it in and say, Okay, this two hours
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: is for this and this alone and nothing else and
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: no distractions, nothing, it has to be this, then I
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: get a lot done.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: What's the context and environment and situation that you have
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: to create to get that complete focus, attention and productivity.
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: The biggest requirement is quiet. I can't have music. I
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: don't know how people do this with music on. To me,
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: the only way I can do it with music is
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: if I get so focused that I can't even hear
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: the music, and then what's the point in having it
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: on at all. So it has to be quiet. I
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: have to have no distracting noises, no television on that
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: kind of stuff. I mean, I don't mean I have
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: to sit in a soundproof cubicle, but it just means
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: that I can't have anything that could be distracting going on.
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: Noise wise, I can't have anything that's giving me notifications either,
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: you know, like email, or Facebook or Instagram, any of
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: that sort of stuff. All the notifications have to be off.
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: And if it's something that allows me to disconnect from
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: the Internet while I'm doing it, then I will so
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: that there's no chance I'm going to be interrupted by anything.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Do you have a time of day where you are
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: cognitively better like you geat first thing? Yeah, right, first.
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: Thing in the morning. I get up at four every morning.
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: I walk the dog and then I do whatever I'm
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: going to do, and that that's the best time. I mean,
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: the brain science says it should be the best time.
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: That the minute after you wake up is the best
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: minute you're going to have all day long, because your
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: brain's in absolute top condition if you've had a decent
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: night's sleep, and because all of the oxidative crap has
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: been cleaned out of it, all the connections are working
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: and working really really well, so you're going to have
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: your best focus as soon as you wake up, which
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: is why the absolute worst time a day to have
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: an exam is like a late afternoon or evening exam.
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: The best time to have it is first thing in
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: the morning because your brain is just in better nick
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: at that time of the day.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: It's also the reason I have my operations at nine
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: am not five pm. I'm like, don't put me at
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: the end of the day. Also, don't send me. Don't
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: send me to court at the end of the day.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Not that I've been to court, but.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And the funny thing is that while there is some commonality,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: like you said that most people's brain works optimally earlier,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: I mean with other things like exercise or training in
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: the gym or whatever it is that you do, it
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: seems to be different for different people. I know this
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: is not where we're going tonight with this, but I
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: find it interesting to figure out how muscle.
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know, depending what you're doing, None of
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: what I said applies to anything other than the brain.
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: It's just because of the particular architecture of the way
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: the brain works and the way it's cleaned. So the
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: purpose of sleeping for humans and every other animal on
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: the planet, which is almost all of them that sleep,
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: and if you think about it, sleeping is an illogical
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: thing to do. You know, in an environment where you're
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: unconscious and therefore unable to defend yourself for a third
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: of your life. That seems like a pretty big design
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: flow there's got to be a bloody good reason to
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: do it. And the bloody good reason is your brain
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: won't work if you don't do this, and during that
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: time when you were shut down, your brain is actually
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: being disassembled and cleaned. Yeah, so it's going to work
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: best straight after it's cleaned.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Have you heard of a thing called by phasic sleeping?
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: It kind of it's self explanatory the term. But Tiff
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: and I spoke about this briefly that until was it
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: the seventeen hundreds.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: I asked you to look it up, doesn't matter.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: It was like until about sixteen seventeen, eighteen hundred. Apparently
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of people around the world slept twice a day.
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: Like they'd go to bed.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: It they'd go to bed at seven or eight or
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: eight or nine o'clock at night. They'd wake up and
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: then sometimes they'd eat. They'd be up for two or
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: three hours. They do work, they'd eat, they'd socialize some
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: of them, and then they'd go back to bed at
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: like three or four. So they'd have two sleeping installments
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: per day.
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah. You actually these are average numbers, but you generally
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: have four sleep units in a day. Now, you can
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: either take them all together. So let's say, for example,
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: that your brain and every brain is different in this respect.
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: But let's say the average brain needs eight hours of sleep.
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: There are four two hour blocks. Now you can take
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: them consecutively in an overnight sleep, or you can take them.
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: Have two hours, now, get up, wander around, have another
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: two hours. As long as you get those four two
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: hour slots, it doesn't really matter much whether you do
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: them consecutively or with big breaks in them. And I know,
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: for example, I was an exchange student in Germany in
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: my youth, and most of my host families there would
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: come home from work at one o'clock in the afternoon,
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: have a good two hours sleep, get up, and go
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: back to work. It was like the Spanish siesta, but
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: it was German. And apparently that's just the way they've
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: always done.
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: It, the Germans.
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: Yester. Yeah, and their shops accommodate that. So their shops
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: are shut between one and three because they assume, oh,
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: everyone's going to be at home having a sleep, and
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: then they open till nine o'clock at night because that's
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: when they've come back to work and they're going to
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: work there.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, have you found how many kids, you have
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: about thirty five?
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: Isn't it six six?
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: I thought it was thirty five?
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: But or is it a curious experiment for you or
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: observation for you? So you've got eight people, well not
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: now you have, but at some stage had eight people
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: in the house, I guess.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: And seeing how.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: All the different kids work, or how their brain works,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: their body works, their sleep works, their metabolism works, their
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: emotional system works, It's like it's almost like a day
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: to day in real life kind of study watching all
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: these people grow and evolve and all be quite different
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: around the same kind of their.
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, oh definitely. I mean with six kids, we had
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: three boys, three girls, three left handers, three right handers,
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: so perfect experimental set, you know. And yeah, so it
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: was interesting. They pretty much have also split into types,
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: like half of them are like my wife and half
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: of them are like me in terms of their approach
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: to sleep and things like that. So the ones that
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: I like my wife need more sleep than the ones
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: that are like me. I don't need as much sleep,
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: And people are different on that. But whatever is the amount,
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: and most people will know the amount that they regard
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: as a good night sleep. Some people say four hours
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: is a great night sleep. I was will say six,
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: I was will say, I've got to have ten or
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: it's not a good night's sleep. But whatever it is,
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: you've got to get it in order for your brain
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: to work.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: I think James is a mini you. He's a mini
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: me help you.
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: He's actually one of the ones that's like my wife.
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: So really, yeah, I'm not.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: Sure about that. I've met him.
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: He's pretty like you. You're interesting because you're like a
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: like to talk to you. You would think you were
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: all science, like very left brain. But I also feel
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: like there's a real creative component to the way that
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: you work. Not creative as in liturgical dance, but like
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: you have to have like problem solving is both a
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: logical and a creative process, right.
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: Oh, absolutely, yeah, yeah, it's I've got to have the
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: challenge of having something new defined.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And I feel like that where that, you know,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: the part of your brain where you're trying to figure
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: out what you'll do next and why and how you
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: might pull it together and why it's like I don't know,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: and that like writing books, and your most recent book,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: which is fabulous.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: Everybody the name escapes me. What is it?
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: Because I have attention recovery plan right with you on
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: the name, But that's what it's called.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Shit name, great book, Ignore the name by the book.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: That's the take home message from Jumbo. But yeah, like,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: because that was a lot more creative than most of,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: if not all, of your other books, am I right?
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because I was trying out something new there. What
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: I was doing there was and you would have seen
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: there's maybe thirty, maybe forty little historical examples in there,
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: all the way through stories. Yeah, they're all true, and
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: they're all based on something that has actually happened, which
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: I'm trying to use as a bit of an analogy
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: to what I'm trying to explain to try and give
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: people a way into it. Because one of the things
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: that I get feedback, particularly from my wife on is
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: you understand this, and that's great, but you've got to
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: bring me with you, and I need a narrative to
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: bring me in. And so what I was trying in
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: that book is that I've done it a little bit before,
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: but this time I really went full on. And every
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: time I'm introducing a new concept, I'm using a historical
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: example so people can think, oh, yeah, I get that
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: how that works.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Now exactly when I'm teaching or when I'm coaching young
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: speakers or new to the industry speakers like young Tiff,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: who's not a novice anymore. We've taken her l plates off,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: she's got on a big girl pants and she's doing
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: work with companies. But one of the first things I'm
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: sure I taught you, Tiff, is, you know, what's the
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: thing that you want to teach. What's the idea, what's
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: the concept, what's the truth, what's the insight that you
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: want to share with your audience. Now, tell us a
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: story about that, because people resonate with stories and humor,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: but not so much data typically. But if you're telling
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: me a story, if you're trying to make a point
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: about how devastating statins can be or whatever the potential
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: con like when I talk about child hood obesity, I
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: just have to talk about myself, and then that gives
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: me permission. You know, Once I talk about my experience
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: and a few kind of the emotional and social and
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: physiological intersection of all of that, and then I go
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: to unpack it further, people are already on board because
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: they've heard a story.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: Now they're emotionally connected. Now they're curious.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: So I think storytelling is it can be a huge
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: part of the science of delivering science.
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: For me, I think you're right. It's a mistake I
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: made a lot during the first few times I wrote
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: about things. It took me a long time to understand
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: why my first book did as well as it did,
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: Sweet Boys, and it was my story. It was me.
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: I was just writing about what I did. And then
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: later books I wrote I didn't do that. I was
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: just writing about the science, and they didn't tell anywhere
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: near as well as Sweet Poison did. And I've found
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: that I can't write for the audience of me because
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: I don't actually like reading stuff like that. You know,
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: someone hands me the newspaper and there's a feature article
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: in it. The first three pages of it is telling
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: stories about things to get you into wherever it is,
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: and I just can't stand that. I want to just
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: cut to the chase and you know what's actually happening here.
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: But I'm also not the usual person reading about this stuff.
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: And I'm not saying it's better or worse. It's just
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: I don't read things that way. Show me a graph,
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: and I love it tell me a story and I'm
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: losing me. But what my wife has consistently said to
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: me is I need to hear a story. You need
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: to walk me into this with a story. And so
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: that's what I've started doing that more and more.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Well, she's smarter than you for a start, that's right,
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: especially with social and emotional intelligence, social awareness. It's like, she's.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Absolutely right, Like when you you even on this, when
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: you tell stories, like I love all your stuff, but
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: I'm more drawn in when you're telling me a story
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: about the origin of some scientific breakthrough, like the baby
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: oil story or not the baby the sunscreen origins.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: I remember you, you know, and.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: A lot of other things where I'm like, I remember
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: the story, but not so much the data around it.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: And many people have come to me over the years
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: and gone, I heard you speak ten years ago, and
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I remember you telling the story about when you're a
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: fat kid at the swimming sports And they can tell
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: me the story that I told them, and it was
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: a four minute story ten years ago. But that's the
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: thing they remembered because it resonated with them and it
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: kind of reminded them. I kind of reminded them of themselves.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: In my story whatever it was. But yeah, I think
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: there's and that's the constant. I think a challenge with
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: communication is that like the only person in the room
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: who thinks like you as you people might be similar,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: but you know, as you said, you're very analytical, you're
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: very logical, rational, Like, give me the data. Fuck around
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: with all your fluffy words and your stories and your
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: bullshit and your adjectives.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: I don't need them.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Just give me the data and I'll figure it out
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: from there. But then it's like, how do how do
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: you share the science? Like I just did, as I
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: said to you before we went live, I just did
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Friday Night to Sunday Night in Queensland and it was
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: both a doctor in genetics, Denise Vaness, who's fabulous, and
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: myself and she was sharing.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: Some of her research.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: I was sharing some of mine, plus a lot of
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: other stuff, but trying to disseminate that stuff in a
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: way which is going to create a connection and curiosity
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: and engagement and be memorable but then most importantly be
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: usable or operationalizable.
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: You know, can I you know what am I going
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: to do.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: At the end of these forty eight hours of information
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: and data and downloads and graphs and slides, of which
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: I do very little, but for me, and I say
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: to them, what.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: You hear or what you learn or what you know
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: or what you.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Understand as a result of this weekend matters, But what
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: you do matters much more because it's action that changes
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: obviously outcomes and results. And so getting your information out
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: there is one thing. But then doing it in a
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: way where you know there's a degree of engagement, inspiration,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: or something that's more likely to lead to behavioral change,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: you know. And I think that's a skill in itself.
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: Well, I think it makes it easy to remember. Like
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: you said, if people are coming out to you and
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: telling you about something you told them ten years ago,
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: and if that had been in graph, they wouldn't be able.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: To oh one hundred percent. Yeah. Do you have an
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: accountability process?
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: I talk about this all the time with people about
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: you know, people who talk about a plan having a plan.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: I said, let me see the plan. Usually they don't
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: actually have a plan. They just have an idea of
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: how shit will work out. Let me see the written plan.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Timetable structure. Accountability process KPIs along the way, you know whatever.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: I feel like people are.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, we need the stories and the inspiration, but then
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: we also need a process or in a structure or
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: a protocol to work.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: Within so that we can actually move the needle.
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: Nothing formal. I guess it's Mine's very output focused in
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: the sense that if I'm spending two hours writing, I
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: expect to see a thousand or two thousand words out
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: of the end of it. You know, if I'm if
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: I'm spending time on a video, then I expect the
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: video to be either finished by the end of that
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: or or substantially better than when I start it. You know,
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: if I'm doing an article, I expect the article to
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: be done or know what's wrong with it and what
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: needs to be done. So because all the things, or
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: most of the things I do, have a very defined outcome,
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: it's really easy to see whether I've achieved that or not.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: And if I don't achieve it, then it's really punishing
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: as well, because if I sit there and I think
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: I've theoretically been writing for two hours, but I have
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: five words on the page, what I knows have I
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: been doing?
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: So it brings you back to it as well. So
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: I guess there's that in built thing which is you're
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: looking at what you did with your last two hours
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: and saying, have I achieved anything? What?
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: Like with you?
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: I thinking, I've just wrote the title of tonight's episode.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: It's called how does Gillespie work Good?
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: I'm liking it.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: How do you know, like when you write some thing,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: it's kind of it's really when you write it and
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: then you read it and then you reflect on it,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: you get to the end, yep, how do you it's
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: not the right term, but quality control?
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: Do you?
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Is it instinctive? Intuitive? Do you look at that and go,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: like I have a one to ten rating system, which
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: is very me right, But like Melissa might listen to
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: a podcast we did because she edits it, and I'll go,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: what was that one to ten?
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: And she goes, that was a seven? And I go,
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: what would have made it an eight or a nine
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: or whatever?
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Or I'll do a presentation that she's in and or
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: sometimes I'll do something and I go, that was a five.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: I fucked that up?
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: That was How can you be objective or how do
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: you evaluate your own work without involving others?
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: Usually with time, I very very rarely say write a
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: piece and then public shit immediately I usually write it
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: to the point where I think, oh, it's pretty good.
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: This covers it, and then I'll generally put it away
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: and maybe come back to it in a week and
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: have another look at it. And when if I get
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: it out and I read it, because so much has
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: usually gone on in that intervening week, I've probably forgotten
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: a lot of what I wrote or why I went
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: a certain way or whatever, and so I am tending
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: to read it cold. And if I read it and think, jeezu,
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: this is good, then I'll probably a genius, right, you know,
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: then up it goes straight away. But if I'm looking
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: at this is much more likely if I'm looking at
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: it and think, oh, yeah, but what about you know,
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: because I'll notice things that I've sort of had in
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: my head but clearly not ever made it to the page,
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: And so I'll usually then have another go at editing it,
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: and if it's a substantial edit, then I'll probably put
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: it away for another week before I publish it. But
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: if it's minor stuff, you know, we're understanding a paraaffe
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: or two, then I'll probably go then, yeah, So it's
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: sort of a give myself a break come back, and
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: it's based on something I was taught by an old
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: mentor of mine when I first started practicing law, which
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: is back in the olden days when people would send
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: you letters. He always said, you heard those, tif you
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: heard of those. Then you get some paper route and
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: you'll write on it. Not with pen and you know
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: what a pen and quil, but you know close and.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: The He said to use animal skins when he started.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: And animal skins, Yeah, you have.
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: To get the right kind of feather, goose feathers of
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: the way to go, you know, for the for the writing,
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: he said, never respond immediately to anything. Always give yourself
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: twenty four hours before you respond, because you read it,
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: you think of a response straight away. It's usually wrong.
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: It's it's usually the wrong thing to say. And I
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: think that's a really good rule, even more important now
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: with email. Read an email when it comes in, but
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: don't do anything about it for a day.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: Yes, do you? How do you?
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: This is an.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Introspective question and somewhat h self analytical, But do you
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: think you're a better writer or speaker?
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: Like as in like doing what we do now?
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: Like you are?
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: Well, you're definitely one of our.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Most popular guests, if not the most popular and you're
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: a great communicator or do you think it's on par
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: like the way that you the way that you right connects,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: the way that you speak connects. Do you see yourself
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: as a writer or a speaker or an educator and
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: how do you kind of I'm not into people rating
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: themselves too much, but I think a bit of self
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: awareness around where I need to improve or what I'm
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: okay at doing, I think that's not a bad thing.
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I need to write in order to
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: speak in the sense that I can speak off the
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: top of my head about a lot of different things,
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: as we do on this show. But that's only because
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: I've written an awful lot about a lot of different things.
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: I think if you asked me something cold, you know,
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: an opinion about something that you saw on the news
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: today that I had never looked at, I wouldn't give
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: you a particularly good answer. So I think what writing
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: does for me is helped structure my thoughts in that
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: it's sort of like an argument with myself where I'm
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: putting it down and then coming back at it and thinking,
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: does that make sense? What would challenge that assumption? You know,
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: that kind of thing, and it's only once I've been
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: through that process that I feel I'm competent to speak
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: well about that. And I know even when i'm doing,
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: like you know, after in this phase now where I'm
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: promoting a book or whatever and I go out, I
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: do speaking things. The first few are pretty pretty rough,
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: honestly pretty rough, and I learn from watching the audience
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: and what they're responding to and what they're not responding to,
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: and it gets better and better, but it also gets
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: more the same. So speaking takes a lot of practice.
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: I guess writing does too, but I think I need
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: the writing before the speaking.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: Yes, do you.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I've often wondered about your your memory and your recall,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: which seems to be fucking endless and instant. Do you
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: think you have an identic memory?
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: Potentially a little, it's not. It's not fully photographic, but
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: I certainly can remember the pay and the location on
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: a page of a fact if I've read it.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: So that's crazy.
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: So it's not like full photographic where someone can say,
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: you know, you could just say, can you tell me
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: read out page twenty three of that book you read
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: three months ago? I can't do that, but if you
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: gave me the book and said, fine, in that book
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: where he talks about this or that, I'd probably locate
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: it pretty quickly.
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: I feel like my memory is average, not terrible, not great.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: But what I can do is I can look at
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: numbers and look at it intensely and almost like snapshot it,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: and then a minute or two later shut my eyes
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: and see the number on the page, but not recall.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: It the normal way. Do you know what I mean?
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah? No, that's so that's kind of what I'm experiencing too,
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: but for more than just numbers. So it's I couldn't
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: read every word on the page. If you said, where
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: was the word elephant on that page, I'd be able
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: to pretty reliably tell you where it was. So it's
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: not full photographic, but it is from what I can
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: tell better than what most people experience.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you see.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know if this is true, but from the
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: outside looking in, you seem very very well self regulated
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: in public anyway. You know, you don't seem to have
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: huge emotional peaks or troughs.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: You seem to be well, like I said, regulated emotionally.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Do do you ever? Do you get angry as much
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: as normal people?
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Do you get or are you. I feel like you're
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: more logical and practical than emotional most.
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: Of the time. I probably do get as angry as
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: anybody else, although if we do get to it today,
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: we'll talk about that a little bit, but the irritability
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: factor in addiction.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: But.
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: I think I probably do. I've got to remember I've
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: had significant training through the legal professions and as an
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: in court advocate and as a mediator to and a
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: lot of that is quite explicit training about controlling yourself,
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: so being able to step back from something in real
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: time and not let emotions be conveyed or let emotions
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: ruin the point you're trying to make. So there's always
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: a temptation to respond personally, particularly when you're attacked personally,
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: and that certainly happens a lot with some of the
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: things that I write about. But yeah, I think I
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: think it'd be wrong for me to say, oh, yeah,
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: I'm just naturally a really chill person. I think it's
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: more that I've been trained to act properly.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: When you said trained, is there specific training around around
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: emotional regulation self control situationsliness?
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: Oh there is?
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, how does what does that look like?
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: Like? So? Yeah, so I'm an accredited mediator. So part
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: of mediation is you can't become part of the problem.
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: You can't. You can't can't get in the middle and
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: start taking sides or reacting emotionally to what people are saying.
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: You've always got to be able to be pulled back
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: and say, well, on the other hand, you know, or
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: what do you think about that? Marjorie. You know, it's
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: you've got to It's always a temptation to get in
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: there and have a view or have a position or
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: get involved, particularly when some people are really quite angry
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: about whatever it is they're saying and you can copy it.
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: And yeah, there's very explicit training as part of being
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: trained to be a mediator in how to deal with that.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that reminds me a little bit tips bloke as
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: a paramedic, and it's very similar, Like you're often the
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: work he does is in the middle of very very volatile,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: if not dangerous situations where you've got to be captain equanimity.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: You know, you've got to be the karment. You've got
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: to be the calm and the.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Chaos, even when people are doing shit and calling your
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: shit in real time in person.
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, I'm not facing that, but yeah, it'd be
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: similar training. It'd be you know, getting people to take
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: a breath, step back, drop out, you know, in the
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: sense that don't react.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: I had a meeting today with a couple of people
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: from my UNI. We're talking about someone else's project, doesn't
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: matter who or what, but we're talking. It was an
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: intersection of business and AI and psychology. But we're talking
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: in a business sense about forward planning and the idea
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: of you know, where do we want to be in one, two,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: three years, coming up with some clarity around that, and
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: then reverse engineering it and saying, well, this is.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: Where we are now, this is where we'd like to be.
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: With that in mind, what do we need to do
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: now or change now?
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Do you have anything like that where you have a
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: kind of a timeline with where you would like to
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: be or your business be or your writing, like do
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: you go in two years, I would like to have
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: done this or that or it's nothing like that.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: Not really a big forward planner in terms of on
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: a year to.
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: Year basis, not unless it's contractually imposed. So you know,
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: if I'm working on a publisher's deadline, then I have
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: an external thing that I have to work towards they're
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: giving me a deadline. They're saying, we need manuscript by
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: this date or we need edits by that date. So
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: that yes, but for me personally, no, I don't do it.
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: I probably should, but I don't. And the idea that
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: I'm planning a business is kind of foreign to me
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: in the sense that I you will have gathered by
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: now that I'm really really terrible at this kind of stuff,
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: just mostly because it doesn't interest me, the the nitty
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: gritty of promoting you meant this, I thought you meant podcast. No, No, no,
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't do this.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: That's hurtful.
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't do this if I didn't find this interesting.
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: It's the fact that I'm still doing it after whatever
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: three years or whatever we'll be doing now. You know
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: that says it's interesting, But to me it's I don't
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: like the grind of trying to sell stuff or market stuff,
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: or you know, all that kind of repetitive stuff. And
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: I probably should do a lot more of that, but
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: I just can't be bothered. And I guess if I
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: had a business plan or something that made me do that,
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: but then I wouldn't I'd consider that to be a
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: waste of my time. Honestly, I feel as much more
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: interesting things to do with your time.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: I also think that would probably like if all which
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: that definitely is not you. It's not me either.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: I hate selling shit like i've i reckon in eight
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: years and twenty three hundred episodes, I don't know that
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: I've ever promoted any of my books to sell, and you.
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: Never stopped talking about them. Come on, Craig, you're always
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: good banging on about bloody first book, What a great
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: title it happened. Yeah, YadA, YadA, YadA.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: Well there's not even any in print, so you can
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: relax about that.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: So I'm not trying to sell anything, not even available
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: most of them anymore.
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: But see, you know you're pushing that they're rare collector's items.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: That's true.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Everybody, get on board the fucking rare Craig Harper collection that's.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: Going to be worth nine dollars one day.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I feel if you all of a sudden
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: became the coerced sales guy, you wouldn't be you anymore.
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: That's definitely not you. That's not a great fit for you.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: That's someone else's job to sell your shit, not you.
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree with you, and it's unfortunate. I'd probably
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: be a lot richer if I had a different view.
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: But that's a you've got to spend your time doing
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: things that are interesting, I think.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: So you have obviously a bunch of articles on substack,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: and then you have your free schools dot org, which
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: is a massive undertaking and organization or whatever it is.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just does so much great stuff, and
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: your legal practice and your books, and you stick your
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: head in here once a fortnite and you seem to
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: be overwhelmingly busy, but also maybe efficient is a better word.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: Busy, but efficient, not you know, productive, not unproductive. Is
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: there something that is.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: Not at all related to any of these things that
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: you do or we know about you, or we know
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: you are linked to something that you would like to
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: do or try in an alternate, alternate reality, like you know,
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: just some other project or focus that's unrelated to anything
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: you currently do, not to say.
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: Letter interestingly, Yeah, no, you know what, I don't think
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: there's any boundaries on what I do. So if there
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: there are definitely projects that I have very definitely got
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: parked on the back burner that I would love to
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: bring to the front burner and start really focusing on
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: and just don't have the time to do it at
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: the moment. But it's that's my voice. It's not like
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: I'm restricted and saying, oh, you couldn't do that. You
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: just you don't have the ability to do that, or
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: you don't have the desire to I do. It's just
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: a time thing there, and I'd love to talk to
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: you about one of them in particular, but it's kind
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: of in a patent process at the moment and I
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: really can't talk about it. But when it is, which
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: will be soon, hopefully we will talk about it. But
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: that one has been sitting there for ten years in
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: the bottom drawer, and that whole ten years I've been thinking,
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: I really wouldn't mind spending more time on that. But
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: I've also learned that if I can't give it proper focus,
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: like if I can't guarantee this project gets definitely at
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: least two hours a week, I know there's no point,
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: you know, And so I won't take on something new
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: until I know I can give it the focus it needs.
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: I'm glad you give up us the focus. We thank you.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: So with all that in mind, all that business that chaos,
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: the good chaos, the stuff on the front burner, the
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: back burner, the current stuff that maybe one day stuff.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: How do you prioritize, Like what's the how do you
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: figure that out? What does get your attention?
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: And more so the things that I've decided, the things
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: that I've decided I am focusing on, And there's maybe
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: five or six, maybe seven at any given time besides
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: my actual job, those are the things. They all get
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: the same amount of focus, and that's I guess the
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: test is if I can't. The only way I put
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: something else in that rotation is if one of those
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: things resolves or is no longer active for some reason,
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: then something else can go into its slot. But that's
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: the test. I don't want to take on something unless
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: it's got a slot.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: As your kids have gotten older and you've gotten older,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: obvioushly has the I mean I'm assuming here. I could
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: be totally wrong, but I guess the fact that there's
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: less active parenting because your kids are not four and
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: five years old anymore, has that created more space? Be
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: that real space or COVID absolutely absolutely liberated you somewhat.
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: It means I can take on more things. Yeah, it
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: means that things are sitting in the bottom drawer less long.
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: You know that there are things. So this video project,
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: you know where I'm doing videos on this, that is
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: one of those things that were sitting there for a
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: long time, and I did nothing on because I knew
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: I couldn't give it the time a slot opened up
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: because something else resolved. So I'm doing that and I
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: will keep doing that till I decide that either there's
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: no point doing it, or you know, some other endpoint
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: is reached. And I guess this is where I fail
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: is I don't have particular goals. I don't have. It's
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: not like I can say to you until I'm making
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: a billion dollars a minute doing it, because I don't
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: have a goal like that. It's it's until I get
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: to a point where I feel it's I'm not adding
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: any value.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: But I think somebody like you, who is a fucking unicorn,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: you don't need what a lot of people need because
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: you're driven, you're focused, your creative, you're you know, you're intelligent,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: all of that stuff, and I don't think you need
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: what a lot of people do need, which is they
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: need this constant accountability or kicking the barm or if
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: anything you need an off switch or know periodically, but
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: I feel like you're going away for somewhere to rest
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: is not an option your wife to rest and you
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: take a laptop pretty much.
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: And that's because I tend to get bored really really quickly.
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: But it happens by force sometimes because you know, Lizzie
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: will say, well, you know you're taking a week off.
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: It's happening. Here's a book. You're going to read it
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: and step back, because left to my own devices, I
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: would never take any time off.
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And do you in the moment have that awareness
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: like are you aware of that or do you just
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: you realize that once the better half with way bigger
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: social awareness and intelligence and emotional intelligence, then you points
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: that out.
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: You go, oh, that's not a bad idea or that's
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: not a bad Oh.
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: No. I usually fight it. I usually fight it, and
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: it's only because she's more powerful than me by see
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: to her demands. But it's I'm always glad that I've
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: done it when I do it, because it feels like
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: I've had six years off if I take a week off.
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: But yeah, I usually fight it. So it's not something
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: that I think Oh, that's a great idea. I'll do that.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: I also think when you're analyzing, you know whether or
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: not something's optimal or optimal or a complete waste of
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: time or ineffective, like, irrespective of your model.
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: Let's forget of.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: How you work and how you prioritize, and how you
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: evaluate this or that and what you give attention to.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: I would skip all of that sometimes, and I'd go, let's.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: Look at the output. Let's look at the let's look
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: at what you're doing being creating. And you go, well,
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: you're creating great stuff.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Your output is high quality and abundant. And then I
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: don't think you really need to over analyze the process
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: because whatever you're doing is working. So let's maybe not
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: fuck it up doing what somebody else thinks you should do,
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: somebody who's less productive and less successful than you, which
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: may be the case.
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: Often it's like, well, you've also got to be prepared
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: to toss stuff in the bin, like you really do.
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: One of the things I found really early on is
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: if it's not good enough, it's not good enough. You know,
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: Sometimes you write something and you think, well, this is
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: a bit wrong. I'll come back to it in a week.
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: And have a look at it, and you have another
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: go and you still can't get it right, and you
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: come back a week later and you have another go
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: and it's still wrong. And at that point, at some point,
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: you've got to be able to say, well this just
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: isn't going to work and toss it, and then you've
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: just wasted those three weeks. But you know, you have
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: to be able to make that call. So you can't
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: get so attached to something that you can't pull the
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: pin if it has to be pulled.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Can you share one thing with us You don't need to,
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: but big or small or medium that you thought was
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: a good idea.
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: Oh, absolutely, a great example.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: That's a idea.
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So I started, I don't know, there's a trendy
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: word for this kind of thing now, a charity which
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: was an app about providing a marketplace for secondhand school
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: uniforms for schook its obviously, and I got the app
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: all written, got programmers in, had it there. It was
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: called click to Sell and it it worked beautifully, but
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: you weren't selling so much as a lot of the
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: things on it were free. It was just people using
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: it as kind of like this. Just before there was
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: such a thing as Facebook marketplace, but it was that
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: kind of thing. It was an app. We got some
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: other charities involved in it, got a partnership up with
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: Harvey Norman where they would start to do computers through
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: it and shoes and things like that. But it just
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: never got to the point where it was going viral
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: without effort, and you know, it got I don't know,
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: ten twenty thirty thousand downloads or whatever it was. It
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: just wasn't enough. And it was a great idea and
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: I loved it and it was doing good, but it
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: was never going to achieve what I wanted Wich is
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: to provide a true marketplace for secondhand school gear, you
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: know amongst Australian schools, and so yeah, at one point, yeah,
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: you just I had to make the hard decision and
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: pull upin, which was painful, but yeah, that's I could
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: be grinding away at that today and and have produced nothing.
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: But it wasted a lot of time. You have to
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: at some point bull apin if something's not working.
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I remember, and we'll wind up after this.
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: Tiar for you angry yet a little bit, a little bit.
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: You've got three or four minutes to go. You've been
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: very good, David Knight.
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: Very very good. I'm very proud of your tip.
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: I did have a protein bar before. You did have one.
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: You did have one, did I did have one?
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: I did have I remember years ago, David speaking at it. Anyway,
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: I seeing a conference some business now I kind.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: Of remember which organized that. I think it was an
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: industry organized an industry conference. Anyway, the guy before me
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: got up and spoke about a bunch of things, one
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: of them was work life balance. And I was sitting
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: there thinking, by his logic or he's in inverted k
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Commas science, I'm doing everything fucking wrong, right, except I
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: think I'm happier and more fulfilled than him, because I
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: was working like eighty hours a week. I had five
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: businesses at that stage, and five different teams of employees
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: and five local and all of this stuff. And you know,
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: I wasn't killing it, but everything was going all right.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: And in the middle of it at this point in
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: my life anyway, I really I was quite good. I
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: was quite happy.
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: I was.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: And it occurred to me that, like when you talk
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: about work life balance, they're often talking about almost like
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: I visualize a seesaw with work on one side and
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: or scales.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: I guess work on one side and life on the other.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: And when you find this right balance of hours, then
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: you found the sweet spot, you know.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: And and I went and chatted to him later and
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: he was nice, and I wasn't. I wasn't.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to ask him, and I said, what
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: if somebody's doing twenty hours a week of something they
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: fucking hate and somebody's doing eighty hours a week of
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: something that stimulates the mixcites and gives them joy and fulfillment.
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: And he didn't really have an answer, you know. So
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: for me, I think it's how much work matters.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: Of course, I think, you know, there's there's a point,
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: but I call it work impact, Like what physical, mental,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: and emotional impact does your work have on you and
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: your work environment and the things that you're doing, or
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: you know, is your work essentially something that you would
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: want to be exploring or doing or like for me,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: even this talking to you, you know, we're sponsored by Nova.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: We don't make a million bucks, but we you know,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: we make a few and we have good sponsors. And
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: you know nothing about this for sure, but nothing about
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: most of what I.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: Do feels like a work experience.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: For me, So I feel like I've a little bit
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: won the almost like the career lottery, and I feel
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: like I haven't had a job, which I haven't had
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: a job for, you know, nearly forty years, and you know,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: do you feel like that? Do you feel just when
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: you're working? Is there any sense of, oh, this is
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: a fucking grind, I don't want to be here.
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: No, I've certainly had jobs like that, probably a long
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: time ago now. But I have a day job now.
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: You know, I work as a lawyer, and.
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: I'll forget that.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know you do, but sometimes I'm like
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: Helen Earth, does he how many hours a week would
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: you work as a lawyer?
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: Like thirty seven and a half? Because I work for
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: the public service, so of course it's thirty seven and
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: a half. But it's it's but I don't dislike that job.
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: It's it's not the same as doing the things I
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: do outside of it. It's probably not as intellectually challenging
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: as that, but it's not a bad job and it
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: keeps me interested. So it's like, I don't know who's
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: that quote TIF or not? Is you know the perfect
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: place to be is to be paid to do the
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: thing you love. Well, I don't think I'm there, But
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: a lot of the time I'm being paid to do
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: things I love, and the rest of the time I'm
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: being paid to do things I don't mind.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, I think we're all on the same
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: page with that. Anyway, the name of the book again
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: one more time. Lets we most will keep a shout
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: out while we're here.
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: The Attention Recovery Plan. Worst title in the world, I know,
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: but there is no it's all right, there's worse.
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: There's there's a book or pull your finger out. That's
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: the worst Thailand the world.
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, anyway, let's let's pre promo. Is that the
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: right word radio word for it? Let's pre promo it.
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: I do want to talk about what we were going
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: to talk about today, which is how being an addict
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: destroy his impulse control and why things like TikTok and
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: Instagram are actually responsible for the violent crime wave.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about that and if you want to
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: very much. No, no, no, I was I was just
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: thinking right then, I wonder if we could pull it
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: forward a we can do it next week.
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: But we'll we can do that. If you want to go,
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: do you want to do it next.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: We should probably off here, but fuck up, let's do
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: it on here. So hang on, let me just get
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: my phone out while everyone's listening. Uh, five o'clock next Wednesday. Yeah,
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: let's do that perfect, all right, mate, We appreciate you.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Will say goodbye off air in ten seconds. But Tiff,
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: thanks for not eating anything on the show and getting
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: too angry.
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: Thank you very much for you next time.