Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 511: 11 years of experience, 3.94 GPA. 725 GMAT, 3.91 GPA

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MBA Wire Taps 511: 11 years of experience, 3.94 GPA. 725 GMAT, 3.91 GPA · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, August 17, 2026. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going?
• 0:28
  Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graham.
• 0:30
  Speaker A: So this episode, I'm just going to be. We got to put this out there at the start. We're pre recording this episode because I'm actually, in theory, when you listen to this, I should be on vacation somewhere with any luck. So in any event, just want people to know that recording this in advance. So if, you know, if something crazy has happened in the interim, you know, the world has ceased to exist, then you know that that is what it is. But how are things going, Alex?
• 0:54
  Speaker B: No, everything's good. I mean, obviously again, we're pre recording a couple of weeks ahead, so I can't really talk about what's going on in the MBA admissions world, but yeah, everything's good. We're actually some good summer weather here in Cornwall, but unfortunately I know that other parts of the world are just really suffering with this heat wave. Heat.
• 1:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everywhere. So, you know, one thing I was thinking about is, you know, here it is when this episode's airing, it's, you know, we're already past the mid August part and so the mid August point. And there are, you know, I mean, there are going to be so many deadlines coming up. So I'm going to probably ask you in our next episode to start running these down because there are a lot of deadlines coming up. But in any event, hopefully everyone's diligently working on their essays while I'm on vacation. In any event, in terms of the stuff that we're going to cover in this episode, I do have a couple of admissions director Q and A's that I wanted to review, both from European MBA programs. And then of course, you picked out some candidates that we're going to talk about as usual before we get into. Into that. We are. We have some events on the horizon. September 1st, Alex, you and I are going to do a live stream at noon Eastern. That's a Tuesday. It should become kind of a monthly habit going forward. And again, the idea is there is just for you and I to be able to connect with candidates who listen to the show or just people in the clear admit community who want advice as they approach deadlines. There'll be many deadlines around that September 1st date, so should be a pretty exciting time. And then after that, in late September, we're going to have our application Strategy series where we get together with I think 20 to 25 top MBA programs and ask admissions directors questions about their applications. And then into October there'll be many more events as well, so lots to come. Stay tuned. Just go to clearadmit.com events in order to get any details and sign up for those. Alex, before we get into candidates, I did want to go over. We have these two admissions directors that we connected with and the first one is Ali Eliasari, I hope I'm pronouncing that right. And he works for EM Leon, which is in Lyon, France. And you know, it's a program that I admittedly know less about. I'm guessing a lot of our listeners too, but it's kind of an interesting program. So I wanted to just share some of what he said in the Q and A that we did on the site. So the first is just, you know, we said like what's something you want people to know about when it comes to your program? And Ali says what truly defines the MBA is not only its academic content, but, but the intensity of the collective experience that it creates. With a deliberately small cohort, the program fosters a level of interaction that goes far beyond classroom exchanges. Discussions become deeper, more challenging and often continue well beyond formal sessions. Each year we bring together around 40 participants representing more than 18 nationalities. This diversity is not incidental. It is central to the way learning happens and the perspectives of are confronted. The program is also designed as a compressed 11 month journey. So rather than spreading the learning over time, it concentrates it into highly immersive format, into a highly immersive format aimed at accelerating professional transformation and reshaping how participants approach leadership and general management. So, you know, just learning a few things here. Very small program, 40 candidates, you think about, you know, Wharton or some or Harvard, you know, these are like programs with like 900 candidates or 800 plus. Right. So really small and really fast. 11 months. So kind of interesting to hear that.
• 4:29
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean it seems like very typical for a one year program in terms of 11 months intense over that 11 months. I know, I think that's INSEAD's model, right?
• 4:39
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 4:40
  Speaker B: In terms of European schools are often more often one year versus two, London business school being one of the exceptions and so forth. But yeah, you're going to know those 40 folks in your classroom. Really, really, as you go through this really intensive experience.
• 5:01
  Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:03
  Speaker B: And you would presume therefore make relationships that persist through your career, which I think is super, super valuable and so forth. So yeah, no, very, very Very good.
• 5:14
  Speaker A: Yeah. And the other thing that we asked, we have this question this year which I've been mentioning on the show, where we say that conversations about MBA value center, often on jobs, salaries, on roi. And so we asked the admissions deans who took part what are some other ways that students benefit from the MBA experience. And so Ali had this to say with regards to that. At EM Leon, he said career outcomes and salary progression are certainly important considerations when evaluating an MBA. In fact, the Financial Times 26 ranking places EM Leon's international MBA third worldwide and first in Europe in the Value for Money category, a measure that evaluates return on investment by considering tuition fees, program duration, opportunity cost, and post MBA salary. However, some of the most meaningful benefits of the MBA experience are much harder to quantify. At EM Leon, we often see profound personal and professional transformations through our early makers philosophy. Participants develop an entrepreneurial mindset, learning not only how to analyze opportunities, but also how to turn ideas into action in complex and uncertain environments. Another key benefit is the strength of the network, which is what you were talking about, Alex. Our international MBA brings together experienced professionals from a wide range of industries, functions and nationalities. And the relationships built within the cohort, as well as with alumni and corporate partners, often continue to generate opportunities years after graduation. So in any event, he goes on to just talk about, and I thought this was really interesting, he talks a lot about how many people do the program, talk about how the greatest impact was not necessarily the salary, but it was the confidence that they gained in terms of being able to navigate and go forward in their career. So we've heard that from other schools too, this idea about a kind of personal transformation and confidence, things like that.
• 6:58
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that's a core benefit of the majority of these top tier MBA programs, quite frankly. Right. So you get that confidence without, you know, being arrogant or whatever, but to be able to make decisions, to be able to build product, be able to build markets, et cetera, et cetera.
• 7:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
• 7:16
  Speaker B: So, yeah, no, very good.
• 7:18
  Speaker A: And I've just realized, you know, in a few months, I'm going to be going to EM Leon because GMAC is hosting a conference for European business schools that are going to all gather in Lyon. So for the first time ever, it's going to be right, you know, too far from me, which is great. So I'll report back as to what the campus is like because I've never been in. Other Admissions director Q and A News. We caught up with Louise Marie Fisher Dale, who is the admissions director over at Imperial in London. And we asked her, what is something that you wish people, applicants knew more about when it comes to Imperial's MBA program? And Louise Marie says, I wish more applicants understood the depth of our focus on innovation and leadership development and how these themes run throughout the entire program, not just a single module or elective. From day one, students are immersed in an environment that challenges them to think differently, question assumptions, and develop an entrepreneurial mindset. This is not something that happens in isolation. It's woven into the curriculum, the projects, and the community around them equally. The leadership journey is deeply personal, and we invest a great deal in helping each student understand who they are as a leader, their strengths, blind spots, and how they can grow. By the time they graduate, they leave not just with business knowledge, but with a clearer sense of the leader they want to become. So I know you probably know more about Imperial than some of our listeners, just given that you're in the uk. I mean, it is one of those schools as a university that's really well known. Correct. I mean, especially for kind of engineering, health, tech, life sciences and obviously business too.
• 8:50
  Speaker B: But yeah, yeah.
• 8:51
  Speaker A: What's your. Yeah. So any thoughts on what she had to say also?
• 8:54
  Speaker B: Great campus. Beautiful. Great location. Just, just, just like London Business School. I mean, you're right in the. Of the city there, in London.
• 9:05
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 9:05
  Speaker B: And I've done some work for Imperial, so I'm a little bit biased too. Right. So I help, you know, courses in digital marketing and so on and so forth. But yeah, I mean, that focus on leadership makes a lot of sense. And, you know, people don't necessarily consider Imperial's MBA program at the very, very top of the European schools, but it's right up there.
• 9:28
  Speaker A: Yeah. And growing.
• 9:29
  Speaker B: It's. And, and growing. Absolutely. So. So, yeah, no, very good.
• 9:34
  Speaker A: Yeah. I know a lot of people over there on the team and they're doing impressive work to kind of bring that school into the conversation more and more.
• 9:41
  Speaker B: Yeah. Because like you say, the other parts of the university Right. At the elite tier of their respective disciplines. Certainly during COVID Imperial was one of the leaders in. In the, in the science side.
• 9:57
  Speaker A: Yes, totally. Yeah. I think a good equivalent, it would be almost like if Princeton University in America decided to introduce an MBA program. And, you know, it would take a little while for people to kind of, you know, figure out that, wow, this is like a top thing. So anyway, they're doing great work over there. One other thing, though, that we asked, and I thought this would be useful for anyone tuning in, regardless of what school you're applying. We did ask Louise Mary about essays, and we just said, like, how do you approach the essay portion? What are you looking for? And she said, essays give us the opportunity to learn more about a candidate than what their CV alone can convey. Above all, we're looking for authenticity. We want candidates to write from the heart and let their true personality come through who they are, what drives them, and why they are pursuing this path. And since we're not able to meet every candidate in person before they submit their application, the essay is often our first real window into who they are as an individual. It is a valuable chance to make a human connection beyond the numbers and achievements on a page. One of the most common mistakes we see is, is over reliance on AI to write or heavily polish essays. While it may seem like a helpful shortcut, the result is often essays that begin to sound alike. Polished but impersonal admissions teams can tell the difference, and a generic essay is a missed opportunity. The one key thing candidates should keep in mind is this. Write like yourself, not like you think an MBA applicant should sound. Your voice is your strongest asset. So what do you think of that?
• 11:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, very good. And we're going to do an episode of this podcast, deep diving into what are the key uses of AI. And actually, maybe we've already done that, I think.
• 11:33
  Speaker A: Yeah, maybe we'll have aired.
• 11:34
  Speaker B: Yeah. Depending on how we juggle your vacation podcast. But if it hasn't aired already, I'm really looking forward to that episode because there's lots to talk about.
• 11:45
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
• 11:46
  Speaker B: And finding that right balance with how to use the AI tools to enable you to present great content, great essays, etc. Etc. Without using them in the way of just sounding like everyone else and, you know, sounding like it's clearly written by AI and so forth. So. So there is a fine balance there. But I'm a big believer, Graham, that, you know, in the real world, in the future, AI is. Is a big part about our toolkit. So folks in admissions understand that, and applicants should be using those tools to great effect.
• 12:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally. A couple other. Just little notes. We continue to publish additional kind of bonus episodes of the podcast even while I'm away, because I recorded all these admissions Director Q&As, so you should be seeing some in the feed when you hear this episode. There should be some additional ADCOM Q&As in the feed. I think I've had, well, MIT, Sloan, Kellogg, so there's been a handful of schools, NYU. They've all been coming on the show and they're all either in your feed right now or forthcoming. So definitely tune into those and share them with friends who are applying to these programs. I think it's been a great use of. I've just had so much fun connecting with admissions deans and I really appreciate their time and so obviously to the extent that everyone can tune in, that helps too. Otherwise, you can write to Alex and I, as usual@infoearadmit.com, use the subject line wiretaps. Alex, you picked out some candidates for us to discuss. Should we into that?
• 13:22
  Speaker B: Let's get going.
• 13:22
  Speaker A: All right, so this is WireTaps candidate number one. So this week's first candidate is coming from an apply wire entry that you've picked and they want to start school in the fall of 27. So they're applying now, they're working on their applications. They have six schools on the target list and those schools are Carnegie Mellon, Harvard, Insead, mit, Sloan, Wharton and Stanford. They have been working in manufacturing and they're hoping to get into maybe management consulting or potentially tech. They have a number of ideas and they list a number of companies. Their undergraduate GPA is a whopping 3.94. They are located in the Philippines and they want to land in the US despite being located in the Philippines. They're actually of Pakistani origin they say and they actually have 11 years of work experience. They are a senior manager. They've been working at a top fast moving consumer goods company and it sounds like they've had like they've run factories. They get into a lot of detail here but they have had a lot of experience and very impressive experience. They're currently, it sounds like an acting plant manager and they drove the facility that they are managing from number 15 to number 2 globally in 18, 18 months. So and there are a number of kind of accomplishments like that. They also have co founded a digital marketing agency on the side. Just having some sounds like some entrepreneurial fun there. They're thinking in the short term they would love to go to MBB Consulting, ideally in the operations or digital technology practice. They also though could see themselves in an operations tech or strategy role for a tech company like Amazon or Microsoft or Google. And in the long term they're hoping to lead an AI native automation venture. So they mentioned all the schools and I listed them already but they clarified there are a few of these schools that they're applying to where they're thinking of joint degrees. So mit, Sloan, they talk about wanting to do the LGO degree which is an operations focused degree alongside the mba. It's an MBA Ms. They also mentioned potentially doing an MBA and an Ms. In Engineering at Wharton and there was another one too in any event. Oh, Tepper also has an MBA, Ms. offering with a kind of robotics kind of option. In any event, lots of degrees, lots of options and they would love to attend a STEM designated program because they want to be able to stay in the US for three years. One thing you'll note is that they have not taken the gre. They will be taking it later this month and they are targeting a 325 plus and they know they say that the deadlines are a bit tight. So anyway I'll stop there because they gave us so much information. Alex. But what do you make of this candidacy?
• 16:10
  Speaker B: I mean this candidate is impressive. I think again from a professional standpoint they seem to have done really well at work as a senior manager and they've got some really impressive outcomes to illustrate that. So I think their opportunity to show impact growth at work is absolutely going to be there. So that's very good. You would argue again the length of work experience makes them a little bit unusual, bit more unorthodox for full time MBA candidates with 11 years of experience. So they're going to be challenged by making sure that they can show fit and establishing the why now versus potentially why not five years previous and so on and so forth. So that might be in the back of the mind of the adcom. I mean their GPA is outstanding right. They were number one I think in their graduating class and it's again a really tough engineering discipline, electrical and electronics engineering and so forth. They finally a project so so they have the academic chops, they have the professional background and and so on and so forth. Don't know as much about their outside of work stuff although I think they, they did co found a digital marketing agency so that's certainly outside of their core yeah sort of career. So that, that obviously took up some time and might add some interesting complement to, to their overall profile. As you say they gre. Well they're planning to take the gre. They say 325 but I want this person to get a 330. I, I think you know if you're as smart as your academic record illustrates get a, get a test score that correlates with that especially with that longer years of experience to show that they're really ready to hit the ground running when they start their MBA. So I want to see a 3 3rd GRE score to really help support what appears to be strong evidence in other parts of the application. But they will be challenged, Graham, in terms of this fact that they're 11 years of experience rather than four or five years of experience as making sure that they can show fit. And that might even sort of impact their opportunity for MBB consulting directly after because again, you know, that stereotypical recruits would be four or five years out versus 11. But there's definitely some strong elements to this profile, Graham.
• 19:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think so. I have kind of incomplete information when it comes to academics because although they have 3.94amazing GPA from the number one school in Pakistan and in electrical engineering and electronics, I mean, so that ticks the box. But I need, like you say, I need a test, test score and I need a high test score because again, that'll be a recent indication of their academic aptitude. So, yeah, and I don't, I mean, 11 years of work experience, I, I pegged them at being probably 32 years old and I did a little math. I'm like, wow, when they graduate, they might be 35. And I think MBB can be a little bit more challenging. I mean, not to say they wouldn't take someone, they're not ageist, but I do feel like they often, you know, they take the folks who are, you know, in, in their late 20s or maybe 30 at most or something, and, and they work them, you know, to the bone a little bit for a few years. So it's, I don't know. So I, I kind of wonder if the transformation from what they're currently doing just into tech might be easier.
• 20:02
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 20:03
  Speaker A: As something to pitch. But I definitely encourage them. You know, obviously they say they're going to take the gre. I really hope they buckle down and get a great result on that test because that will help. And then the only other thing that jumps out at me is I look at this list, I see Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, mit, insead, and they mentioned maybe Carnegie Mellon. And I look at that group of schools and I'm like, wow, there is not a safety in the bunch. I mean, I guess you could argue Carnegie Mellon's a bit easier to get into than some, than like Stanford. But, you know, I just wondered like, why is it so top heavy? Right. These are all. And they, they referred to INSEAD as a safety in their note. And I was sort of like, gee, you know, I mean, it's possible that they'll, you know, get into any number of these, but I, I would maybe spread my odds A little bit more.
• 20:49
  Speaker B: What other programs would you recommend?
• 20:51
  Speaker A: Well, I guess it'd be great to know if they're really focused on tech and maybe not mbb. You know, there are any number of programs. I guess I just sort of wondered, you know, are they.
• 21:00
  Speaker B: Ross.
• 21:01
  Speaker A: Yeah, Ross comes to mind. Or if they, you know, they said they wanted a safety in Europe. That's why they, they mentioned insead. Yeah, I, I don't. I mean, yeah, you put me on the spot a little bit in terms of where else. But I think, you know, even Kellogg, I mean, if they're trying to just sort of balance a little bit, I mean, they are really top heavy here right now.
• 21:18
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 21:19
  Speaker A: And yeah, you know, there could be other schools in Europe. I guess that makes sense too. But yeah, it's. I don't know, I just a little worried they're going in, you know, super high. And I just, I mean, obviously it'd be really helpful to know what that test score is.
• 21:32
  Speaker B: Yeah. But you're right because they got Harvest, Stanford, Wharton on their list. So if you eliminate those. Not that they can't get into those three, but they are obviously really difficult for anyone to gain access to and this candidate does have, have some challenges in terms of that. 11 years of experience, etc. Etc. So if you eliminate those, they've. In the US they've just got Sloan and Tepper and there's a gap between the two. So my, my, my thing is. All right, how do you fill that gap? Ross might be one of them. And maybe another top 16.
• 22:07
  Speaker A: Yeah. Cornell.
• 22:08
  Speaker B: Yeah. Johnson. Yeah, Exactly.
• 22:11
  Speaker A: So, yeah, I, it's, yeah, it's an interesting thing. The one thing I do want to clarify is on their entry they mentioned they have no US work experience and they wonder if that. They list that as one of their liabilities. I totally disagree with that.
• 22:22
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 22:23
  Speaker A: Yeah, they actually, I mean, it's kind of interesting. They went to school in Pakistan. They're working in, in the Philippines. Like, I'm not worried about that at all. And US Schools routinely take people with no US work experience. That's kind of the point when you're an international. So I'm not worried about that. They've actually worked out of country. They're fine in that area.
• 22:38
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 22:38
  Speaker A: And yeah, so they have some work to do with the narrative, like what. Why do they want to do what they want to do and how do they weave it together with their past experiences? But to me, the big question mark right now is school selection and a test score.
• 22:48
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 22:49
  Speaker A: And the two are kind of tied to each other a little bit. So we'll see how it goes. I do want to wish them the best of luck on the test as they go on to take it this month. Hopefully they'll keep us posted and we can see how things evolve for them. But yeah, best of luck to them.
• 23:03
  Speaker B: Yeah, very good.
• 23:04
  Speaker A: Let's move on and talk about WireTaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate this week has just five schools on the target list. Those schools are Chicago, Booth, Columbia, Michigan, Kellogg and Wharton. They want to start school in the fall of 27. And again, this comes from an apply wire entry. They mentioned that their work experience to date has been working in strategy and growth at a series B startup. And in the post MBA kind of world, they're hoping to get into maybe consulting or tech, they're not sure yet. It sounds like their GMAT score is a 725 and their GPA from undergrad is a 3.9. They've got four years of work experience, they're located in South Asia and they want to land in the us. They mentioned that they have been kind of very focused on go to market strategy and they are currently chief of staff to the founder of the company that they work for. They have an economics background in terms of their studies. And this person mentions that she is female. So that's kind of the background that we have. I just, in case you're curious because I was a 725 is like 760 plus on the GMAT in terms of the old scale. So a very, very good test score. Great gpa. South Asian, female, what do you make of this candidacy?
• 24:25
  Speaker B: Well, I can ask you a quick question, Graham. What do you think is better, the 391GPA or the 725 GMAT score?
• 24:35
  Speaker A: Boy, I would need to know where they went to school. And she didn't share that. But I think, I mean obviously a 3.91 is amazing. It's four years worth of data points. So, you know, you could argue that even though we don't see many 725s on the new test. So both are pretty, pretty stellar, I gotta be honest.
• 24:52
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think that's absolutely fantastic. And yeah, sure we should see some correlation between a high GPA and a high gmat. And that's why I think our previous candidate we talked about with a 394 GPA needs to really be a bit more ambitious with their GRE score of 325 because they really should be kicking that into the 330s. But anyway, back to this candidate. Their academic profile and their gmat. Absolutely fantastic. And it seems like, I mean, obviously we don't have quite as much depth in terms of what they've actually been doing, but they've probably got some really interesting work experience working in the startup environment now Chief of Staff, etc. Etc. To the founder. So lots of exposure in that type of role, I would presume, in terms of being able to show that growth and impact. So if they can also articulate some outside of work activity in terms of what else they're interested in and their passions, etc. Etc. Presuming they're going to target round one because they've already got got the GMAT completed and so on and so forth, I'd say go for it. You know, they're targeting some of the very top schools and they should be targeting some of the very top schools.
• 26:13
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, I agree. And I think that was the one piece of the puzzle that was missing in the century was that sort of what do they do in their spare time? Yeah, but again, yeah, economic, I mean, you know, economic background plus all those grades and test score. I mean it's, you know, it's a stellar academic profile. I mean, I think the work experience, like you say, they've probably gotten a chance to wear a lot of hats or have their fingers in a lot of different areas. When you're kind of chief of staff and dealing with strategy and working directly with the founder, that's a great exposure. Right. So, yeah, so the only question mark I say is the extracurriculars, as you point out. But I think this is a really strong candidate and the school choice, the list of schools on the target are there seems to be a little bit of a Midwest focus because they've got Booth, Kellogg and Ross and then they have kind of Columbia and Wharton. I mean, these are, you know, hard schools to get into. But this candidate, I feel like will do very well.
• 27:09
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 27:09
  Speaker A: You know, obviously still has to go through the hoops of like putting together a great application, but the ingredients are definitely here. I'm assuming they have something extracurricular that they do. But in any event, yeah, I think this is a really strong candidate. What would you say if I said this candidate was from India?
• 27:24
  Speaker B: I. I'd stay say pretty much what I've just said.
• 27:28
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 27:29
  Speaker B: Quite honestly.
• 27:30
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 27:30
  Speaker B: I was just curious, especially if they' happening round one, Right.
• 27:33
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it should be fine.
• 27:34
  Speaker B: They should have all their doctrine row for round one. I think go for it. And, and again, it'd be if they had some stuff outside of work that's, that helps sort of complement everything else. That would be fantastic. And, but, but there's a lot to like here.
• 27:48
  Speaker A: Yeah. And then the one last thing we didn't talk a ton about, just the kind of career plan.
• 27:52
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 27:52
  Speaker A: You know, I think they sound, they didn't give us a ton of insight there on what they want to do. Exactly. But I think, you know, know, they can kind of pick their, choose their own adventure. I think any of the paths would potentially be open to them.
• 28:04
  Speaker B: Yeah. So, but, but I mean, you know, short term MBB consulting, that makes a lot of sense and I presume that is their short term goal in terms of consulting.
• 28:14
  Speaker A: I think so. Yeah.
• 28:15
  Speaker B: And then to, you know, they've got that startup experience, so to transition back into tech, that, that makes a lot of sense to me. So. So perhaps they've really, they really have thought that through.
• 28:27
  Speaker A: Yeah, maybe. Maybe.
• 28:28
  Speaker B: And it can, can work out.
• 28:29
  Speaker A: Well. Yeah, that's a good way to look at it because she listed those two things and if you think you have one is short and one is long, then it works. Yeah. So it's just unclear. But yeah. In any event, best of luck to this candidate. I appreciate her sharing her profile. You know, lots of work to do between now and those deadlines. But as we said, should be a really strong candidate. Alex, we've done it once again. Let's get together in a week's time and record another episode. But thanks for picking out all these candidates.
• 28:54
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe everyone. Take care.
• 29:14
  Speaker A: Of.