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Bonus Patreon Release: Llyra! With Glenn Herdling and DManda Martini! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Green Walk and Lane Patreon channel.
0:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I am so happy to be joined by two friends that get to meet for the first time.
0:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Glenn Herdling and Amanda Martini.
0:08
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a wild combination of personalities that I'm going to have a great time just sitting back in smiling.
0:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And we are here to talk about my listeners know I love a 60's chick.
0:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I also love an early 70's chick.
0:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Lyra or Lyra, whichever way we decide to pronounce this name, is one of the archfos of name or the submariner.
0:26
[SPEAKER_01]: She is one of the most real housewives, ready of all of the Marvel Comics characters.
0:31
[SPEAKER_01]: She's delicious and so over the top, she fucking choose the scenery.
0:36
[SPEAKER_01]: She is the
0:40
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna jump in to this non-sensical and wonderful character that most X-Men fans may only recognize from the Atlantis attacks and rules when she was manipulating people into being brides of the snake god.
0:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that little storyline.
0:53
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna cover a lot quickly today, but this character's delicious, and it's gonna be a ton of fun.
0:58
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, let me welcome my two guests to the show, Glenn and Demand.
1:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll have you both introduce yourselves with your name and pronouns.
1:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Let us know your preliminary thoughts on Lyra or Lyra pronunciation.
1:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's your favorite story of hers?
1:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's begin with the incredible Glenn Herdling.
1:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to Gary Malkenlade.
1:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much Chad Glad to be here.
1:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I could to see you demand.
1:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So the reason that I'm here, you know, I worked at Marvel Comics back in the 80s and 90s and I wrote name more of the submariner for two years probably the best time of my life loved writing that series.
1:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just phenomenal and I loved bringing who my call Lyra into the fold and as I was saying before we started Lyra the reason I called her Lyra is that's what I thought her name was.
1:40
[SPEAKER_00]: When I said her name in
1:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Mark Roonwald never challenged me on that.
1:46
[SPEAKER_00]: So I assume that I must have been saying it correctly.
1:49
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna do a potato, potato, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, Lira, L
2:03
[SPEAKER_04]: But I'm a Washington DC based drag performer and cosplayer.
2:06
[SPEAKER_04]: So Lira.
2:08
[SPEAKER_04]: So I knew that she was a character for sure before doing all of the reading for this episode.
2:15
[SPEAKER_04]: So like, you know, she was just another villainous.
2:18
[SPEAKER_04]: She's like one of two who like claimed to then have a son of name or I think because there isn't the other lady who clone him as well.
2:27
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll get there.
2:27
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll get there.
2:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
2:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
2:28
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a whole, it's a whole, but there's like another one too.
2:31
[SPEAKER_04]: But so I was like, I knew that she existed bed reading this.
2:34
[SPEAKER_04]: She is, uh, as, uh, as a lot of, uh, my British fun, say a little bit of me, like this is a little, she is fantastic.
2:41
[SPEAKER_04]: I love how ridiculously over the top she is.
2:44
[SPEAKER_04]: She is one of those illnesses that's like evil to be evil and we'll do whatever it takes to just be evil and be
2:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I love this messy character back when I worked on the handbooks.
2:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I my listeners know I was well known as the X-Men guy the Daredevil guy and the Defenders guy But one of the subcategories that I would often delve into is the submariner.
3:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I particularly love the 1970s submariner run
3:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I famously hate the 1940s submariner stories, which are so awfully racist.
3:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the 90s name or when we get to John Bern, it picks up on a lot of stuff.
3:20
[SPEAKER_01]: But it lacks a lot of the fun, unless you get the right right around it.
3:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Glenn, you're in Jeff on a name or I could read all day long.
3:27
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so delicious, honey.
3:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we got a jump into crazy continuity for just a minute before we introduce this character.
3:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, more of the submariner was created by Bill Everett back as the first character of Marvel, basically, in 1939, he's kind of the man from another world.
3:41
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a little bit spocked like he's the white guy in the undersea race of blue people.
3:47
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got a real triangular forehead giant eyebrows that would put his
3:51
[SPEAKER_01]: professor access to shame and he has little wings on his ankles and he's truly a wild character.
3:55
[SPEAKER_01]: They bring him back in the bronze age early on in the fantastic four.
3:59
[SPEAKER_01]: He's been living as a vagrant for years.
4:01
[SPEAKER_01]: They find him on the street.
4:02
[SPEAKER_01]: The submariner gets his beard shaved off by the human torches flames and then he gets wet and he's like,
4:08
[SPEAKER_01]: name of the sub-mariner.
4:09
[SPEAKER_01]: He's sometimes a bad guy, sometimes a good guy.
4:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, along the way in the 1940s and 50s, we got a lot of continuity about this guy that doesn't really match the modern age and less modern writers try to make it work.
4:19
[SPEAKER_01]: One of those, he has a cousin, because if you have a male hero, you need a female counterpart, right?
4:23
[SPEAKER_01]: That girl is a Batman, so we have Namor and Namorah, who is later brought back pretty famously in the agent of Atlas in the early 2000s as a really fun character.
4:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Both of them are canonically mutants because they have a human parent and an Atlantean parent that has resulted in super strength and ankle wing.
4:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes the continuity says anytime a human fox and Atlantean that's what's going to happen.
4:47
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's not really how it works.
4:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Nemona also has a famous story where it's a huge retcon later by John Bern where she goes to someone because she and name are both unable to bear children.
4:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So she has a love of her life.
5:00
[SPEAKER_01]: She goes to a crazy scientist named Vera, not to be confused with Lyra.
5:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's a little creepy blue guy who's this awful clone specialist.
5:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And he takes a clone of Nemora and implants that clone into Nemora's own body.
5:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where Nama Rita comes from.
5:16
[SPEAKER_01]: She's a clone of Nemora, but technically she's a mutant in the same way that like Laura Kenny would be a mutant, right?
5:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Nemora Rida is introduced in the 1960s in a very bye-bye birdie fashion.
5:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I promised to do a trial of this character one day, and Nemora is kind of written off to the legends until she comes back later.
5:33
[SPEAKER_01]: The reason we have to establish all of that is because all of this ties into the complicated storylines involving Lyra,
5:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Lyra is a different character who has a human parent and a lumburian parent.
5:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, lumburia is different from Atlantis.
5:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Glenn, do you want to give everybody the like one paragraph summary of Marvel Comics Origins of Undersea Atlantis?
5:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Since you're the guy that rules it to the surface that one time.
5:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, I mean, we thought discovered that Atlanta was a thing back in the World War II during the Captain America era and everything.
6:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And the first time we hear about it when he attacked a sub, I think it was because a sub was dropping bombs or something.
6:11
[SPEAKER_00]: It was dropping torpedoes and things on it.
6:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Land is the first time we hear about it.
6:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's been around in the Marvel Universe for a long, long time.
6:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a long time.
6:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But the retconned history is like back to the like Hyborian era of like ancient humanity, there's a continent that sunk beneath the waves and like evolved differently.
6:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So these are like previous humans, they have their own set of gods, but Atlantis has hundreds of appearances and history that stretches back hundreds of years.
6:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also tied to the deviance, and this is where we have to take another quick continuity dive.
6:46
[SPEAKER_01]: We have the deviant capital of Lemuria, which is also tied to ancient times, but it's separate and distinct from the undersea kingdom of Lemuria, where in Atlantis they have blue skin, in Lemuria, undersea they have more green skin.
7:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the deviant Lemuria is where, like, everybody's a crazy genetic mom of like whatever mutation going off.
7:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where GAR comes from.
7:08
[SPEAKER_01]: GHAUR, that's the warlord priest that is tied to the internals in the deviant storylines.
7:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have Lemuria and Lemuria.
7:16
[SPEAKER_01]: We have mutant hybrids, including Lira, which we'll talk about.
7:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we have the crazy chronology of the sterile name or end name or end name or reta that all tie into this character's history.
7:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And I did that as succinctly as I could.
7:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Did I do go out?
7:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, that's fantastic.
7:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't have done it any better.
7:34
[SPEAKER_00]: You must have written the Marvel Universe and book.
7:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I sure did.
7:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So Glenn, let's take us back to the 1990s when you are put on this book.
7:43
[SPEAKER_01]: We shared this a little bit on the main show.
7:45
[SPEAKER_01]: My question for you here more specifically is how did you delve into researching the world of name or the submariner and what like storylines?
7:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I know this is I know this is a long time later.
7:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So whatever shows up here is great.
7:56
[SPEAKER_01]: But what what storylines or villains or superfos like really showed up is like the favorites that you really wanted to use.
8:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, with the favorites, I always love Tiger Shard.
8:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I loved the way his relationship with his sister and everything, who was then the wife of stingray and also, just that whole dynamic there, how he was cursed to be living in the sea.
8:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And I always thought he was a very misunderstood character and I thought, Bob Harris did a really good job of bringing that out.
8:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And so after I took over from Bob, I just wanted to extend that.
8:28
[SPEAKER_00]: But my history with Neymar goes back to,
8:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I always say, you know, I would get on the reprints of Hell to Estonish, and it was in Marvel Superhero.
8:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was the reprints of that and had the Hulk and Submariner, and I would just skip over it.
8:41
[SPEAKER_00]: The Submariner story isn't just read the Hulk story, so I had all these, you know, comics in my collection.
8:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when I was told, Glenn, you're writing name or I mean, I was, it was, I did a proposal.
8:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Puzzle for name or but it was really you know the editor was Mike Rockwich at the time and he said hey I need I need a plot of my desk like Friday say oh, don't you want the proposal?
9:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I just know I need the plot.
9:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, all right.
9:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So I got him the plot and then after that You know, I got him the synopsis for the rest of the series and the the first one I think we discussed as the last time with the first uh
9:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Come on, I did was the rhyme of the ancient submariner because I was just pressed.
9:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I needed some time to, you know, collect my thoughts and I am heavily of a big researcher.
9:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I love researching, I had a love to ask,
9:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Love doing that stuff, but I didn't want to go in there in half ass it, you know, so that's why I sort of I just do this sort of this it takes place in the future You know, the rhyme with the ancient Samariner, you know, I'll be some at least I'll have a month to then catch up and get my research We had had the saga of the Submariner was done back then that was even now Really and read 12 issue series that covers name or and in the modern days literally we're recording this in mid March just last Wednesday like 48 hours ago
9:58
[SPEAKER_01]: The new name or series, which is an 80 series by Jason Aaron, just wrapped up, which is also retelling name also origins.
10:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so like, here we go again, but yes, but that was a big help doing that, but I, you know, went into a lot of those stories that I had that, you know, the thing, the Marvel Super Heroes and told us reading those and, you know, called on a lot of things like, wow, I missed a lot of this character.
10:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I really missed, you know, when I was a
10:24
[SPEAKER_00]: skipping over those tales is that this is a lot of fun.
10:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was glad that I had those arrows able to look at those and then when I came in I had a lot of a lot of continuity, not a lot of a lot of things to when John Bern had he left a lot of things to be developed, right?
10:40
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there were a lot of the, you know, storyline, you know, plot, you know, things that threads that he just left hanging there.
10:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had to go in there and I had to resolve some of those because Bob Harris, when he did his
10:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all right, so I have to go into there.
10:55
[SPEAKER_00]: There's all these things.
10:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, I can't go in there and not resolve this.
10:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So I went in and when I had the whole Phoebe Mars thing and when Phoebe Mars appeared and was appearing to her brother and or no Desmond was appearing to Phoebe, excuse me, and you know, he was already dead.
11:09
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a, you know, who was this guy?
11:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Why was she seeing his ghost?
11:13
[SPEAKER_00]: What was going on?
11:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had to resolve this.
11:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I looked at the one character who could be behind this, it was a stretch.
11:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
11:24
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk all about Lera and we'll get into the crazy submarine or continuity, but I just want to tell you what a fun wild can't be journey.
11:30
[SPEAKER_01]: This is demand.
11:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I could do eight different episodes on name or specific characters with you beginning with Navarita.
11:37
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a fucking good time every time.
11:39
[SPEAKER_01]: His favorite wrote, my favorite rogues of his are Tiger Shark.
11:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Atuma is amazing.
11:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a big warlord crank and beer guy, but fucking Dr. Dorcus can get it.
11:48
[SPEAKER_01]: He's so fun.
11:50
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some really delightful villains in this rug's gallery.
11:52
[SPEAKER_04]: So I love Nema Rita because I was a big New Warriors fan in the early 90s when I like first got into comics because I got into comics through the training cards.
12:03
[SPEAKER_04]: And so one of the cards that I got was Firestar.
12:06
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like,
12:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, who's this?
12:07
[SPEAKER_04]: What team is she on?
12:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me, you know, read an issue and name Rita was cool because she was, um, she was kind of like the hard-nosed warrior kind of in that book.
12:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, I recently did a name Rita look based on her 90s appearance, which is awesome.
12:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Cause like, you know, reading back on her history, she was like this love, like love drunk kid in like the 60s and 70s being like, oh, cousin name where it's like so hot.
12:29
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's like girl.
12:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, that's your cousin.
12:32
[SPEAKER_01]: He's wonderful.
12:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I do a monthly trial on my show.
12:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Namerida is near the top of my list.
12:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I will make that happen sometime relatively soon.
12:42
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a long list, but she loves it.
12:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I love her and it's the perfect time because we're doing all these 70s chicks.
12:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're doing like Hellcat and Moondrag.
12:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Like in the next quarter, which is delightful.
12:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we're going to have you done, uh, have you done Firestore?
12:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Have I done Firestore?
12:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
12:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it firewood?
12:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I have.
12:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, I didn't like her classic look the yellow and I, but I added the, uh, uh, Luciano Vecchio Red Zipper up top because I thought that looked cute.
13:05
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
13:06
[SPEAKER_04]: So originally, my friend who did the mask for me, he did like really narrow on my face, kind of like what she usually does.
13:13
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, no, no, I need like the big 90s nonsense on my face.
13:18
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to be all like hit people when I turn my head.
13:21
[SPEAKER_04]: So you made me a second one.
13:22
[SPEAKER_04]: That was much bigger.
13:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
13:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I do low fire start and also as of this recording.
13:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Can't remember her last name, but Sadie, the redhead actress from Stranger Things has been rumored to be eyed for a new role in the Spider-Man movie.
13:34
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, please be Angelica Jinx.
13:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Please be Angelica Jinx.
13:38
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you gonna be?
13:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Here.
13:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got a lot of sidebar to that, that I can add.
13:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I first started at Marvel, I was, I hope you don't mind me taking it off of a little sidepad here, Chad.
13:50
[SPEAKER_00]: But I was on my first birthday.
13:52
[SPEAKER_03]: I was on my first birthday, please.
13:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Tom the Falcon, I was just the, I was an associate editor at the time, so I just sat outside his desk.
13:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And I sent out a lot of FedEx packages.
14:00
[SPEAKER_00]: But one of the things he asked me, some woman came out.
14:02
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, Glenn, this is a caddy.
14:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you just give her a tour of Marvel?
14:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, sure, sure thing, Tom.
14:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm walking around and everything.
14:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I won't buy a set.
14:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So why do you get a special tour?
14:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Who are you?
14:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Because, oh well, I'm the voice of Firestar.
14:17
[SPEAKER_00]: In Spider-Man and it's amazing.
14:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Friends, I was like, oh my god, that's so cool.
14:21
[SPEAKER_00]: That's so amazing.
14:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I was like, this is fantastic.
14:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm walking around with everything.
14:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, let me hear your angelic voice first.
14:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And she gives me angelic.
14:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I said, now let me hear Firestar voice.
14:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And she goes deeper and more heroic and everything.
14:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And so,
14:35
[SPEAKER_00]: as I'm walking around and I said, is there anything else I might know you from?
14:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there anything she could say, oh no, this is probably long before your time, but I was in this show called family affair and I was like, you're sissy, you are sissy, you're a family of
14:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I was then, I wasn't introducing it to the Bolpant people, and knew where's like, she's like, oh my gosh, she was in his Derek, she loved it.
14:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So I love that story.
15:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You better believe I have things to say about Firestar, but my show's trapped in 1975.
15:04
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not going to get to Angelica for a minute.
15:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, do you want to talk to us about Lyra's classic look?
15:10
[SPEAKER_01]: We first met her in 1970 in Submariner 32.
15:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And she is Ursula Underwater.
15:16
[SPEAKER_04]: She really is.
15:17
[SPEAKER_04]: I am.
15:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Earth was underwater, too.
15:19
[SPEAKER_04]: So again, she's also, she's also, again, very drag queen, which again, pardon me for a lot of us entertainers.
15:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, it's the big loud personalities that we always want to emulate.
15:32
[SPEAKER_04]: And like, Lyra definitely has that.
15:35
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think the loud personality plus the really loud look.
15:38
[SPEAKER_04]: So she has like the greeny olive skin, like the green spike here.
15:41
[SPEAKER_04]: And you can't really tell it's like, is it's spiky because we're underwater?
15:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's like moving, which is again, very Ursula, but it's a little bit longer than Ursula's.
15:49
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's kind of bright of Frankenstein.
15:52
[SPEAKER_04]: A little bit of that, too.
15:54
[SPEAKER_04]: And she's wearing the classic Lea Tard body suit, but it has a high collar, which I love a high collar.
16:02
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just dramatic.
16:05
[SPEAKER_04]: So you know that she's gonna have something to do when something to say.
16:09
[SPEAKER_04]: The side-hide boots classic.
16:10
[SPEAKER_04]: She has like a for city belt thing that has you know some like details on it that's gold So she has like it's giving like it's giving like heavyweight box of champion belt Yes, yes, and of course she's got like the big
16:24
[SPEAKER_04]: chunky gold jewelry like she is drag queen like that is drag queen cosplay drag like I would it again if I didn't already have you know all of my looks planned from now until the end of August I would be like oh we're taking this to flancon like we're walking around is a you know green lady and with a red high collar but another day another day.
16:44
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a woman who has to swim from place to place, who puts on my high boots and like the biggest fucking cape that must weigh 120 pounds under water.
16:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Or like, you let's say.
16:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Enjoy this per fashion.
16:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Listen, as this pick you taught me and great-muppet capers, sometimes you just need to put on your swimming gloves.
17:01
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like very true.
17:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, you just need, you need a good high heel to kick that water a little faster.
17:08
[SPEAKER_01]: It's 1970, Roy Thomas, and about Selby Shema have created Lyra.
17:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's the actress that would be her voice?
17:15
[SPEAKER_01]: What does she sound like?
17:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Does she sound like Sissy from a family affair?
17:18
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
17:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely not.
17:21
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
17:22
[SPEAKER_00]: It definitely deal a lot more, a lot deeper, a lot more resonant.
17:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to think about modern actors that'd be someone else.
17:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I almost feel like she's got a baritone.
17:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like Madeline con to me a little bit.
17:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
17:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that would be, that would be a good one.
17:39
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to make some little more modern, but yeah, Madeline Con would be good.
17:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have an opinion?
17:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Who does Lera sound like?
17:45
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, unfortunately, and my brain, as soon as there's like an over-the-top female villainist, I immediately want to go for a may-west or the iconic,
17:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Uma Sermon as May West as Poison Ivy kind of kind of vibe like that's that's like the voice that you just hear in your head Cause it again, it's that super can't be like melodramatic dialogue is she she fade done away as Joan Crow
18:12
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, probably a little bit of that, too, like, like, so not fade done away in mommy dearest, but like, fade done away in super girl.
18:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we're gonna do some lyric dialogue for us today.
18:24
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to pick whatever voice you choose.
18:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It is Submariner 32, 1970, created by Roy Thompson, Supyshana.
18:30
[SPEAKER_01]: The cover shows Lyra just kind of putting like something on display.
18:35
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like selling her wares.
18:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Namor is in a fish tank in an aquarium, and she's basically offering him to the public.
18:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Ladies and gentlemen, presenting our feature traction is like what we get.
18:45
[SPEAKER_01]: The title box on the cover says call her Lyra, call her legend.
18:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And they are absolutely correct.
18:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So inside we see Namor visiting the undersea kingdom of Lemuria for the first time in ages.
18:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a parallel of Atlantis.
18:57
[SPEAKER_01]: The humans here have a different kind of skin.
18:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more scaly and like a little bit more green.
19:02
[SPEAKER_01]: He finds they have a new leader.
19:03
[SPEAKER_01]: They are shouting, hey, Lira, Empress of all Lemuria.
19:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And she enters carrying a staff that has like a fangued head.
19:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So we get set energy right from the beginning.
19:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember set the snake god for later on.
19:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's getting very Ursula energy.
19:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And she says,
19:17
[SPEAKER_04]: You have done well, faithful gods, and long have I waited for this moment when the fabled sub-mariner should stand thus before me.
19:26
[SPEAKER_04]: You may go now, name or and I shall continue this audience in private.
19:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I know not who you may be female, but I have no desire for audience with you in private or before a world assembled.
19:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me speak to the mighty Carthon, that's the former emperor, or to the man who has taken his place, that's the head of Lemurian nation.
19:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Like all males, Prince Namor, you assume too much, or else you would not have asked to see the man who has replaced him.
19:53
[SPEAKER_04]: So you shall be granted the first part of your request.
19:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Look now upon mighty Carthon, and I speak to him if you have a mind to much good shall do you both.
20:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But with light turns on, Namor sees Parth on chained and surrounded by sharks.
20:10
[SPEAKER_01]: She married this guy to take over the empire and then left him in a trap, basically.
20:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And if Namor doesn't back off, Lyra's like, I'll make the sharks come in, because she can control wildlife with her mind, which is a skill we see in Namor do sometimes, but Lyra does it way better.
20:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, this is her top skill set.
20:25
[SPEAKER_01]: He's calling crazy, like, undersea creatures to do her bidding.
20:28
[SPEAKER_01]: She also gets to monologue about her origins and demand an air going to go back and forth as we summarize this because it's a long one But this is a crazy fucking story and this is a mutant character.
20:37
[SPEAKER_04]: I want you to remember the man to go ahead It begins two decades ago with a beautiful girl and a vessel off the coast of Sun Splash to Hawaii
20:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, rewind about 40 years, name or is the result of an American fisherman meeting at Lanty in Princess.
20:52
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a variation of that story, but it gets twisted around a few times.
20:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So you just gotta follow with us.
20:57
[SPEAKER_01]: We see a woman who's fishing for a prize exhibit to try to save her oceanarium, but they catch a man with blue scales in the net and he's only wearing red briefs.
21:08
[SPEAKER_04]: His name is, so I'm assuming Lyron?
21:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Lyron or Lyron?
21:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Lyron, Lyron, Lyron.
21:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Lyron.
21:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Lyron.
21:16
[SPEAKER_04]: His name was Lyron from the lost city of Lemuria, and he had been hurt when he was landed.
21:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And soon they're swimming and frocking together.
21:26
[SPEAKER_04]: They speedily became far more than friends.
21:28
[SPEAKER_04]: However.
21:29
[SPEAKER_04]: And soon during one of their short intervals that Lyuron could exist out of water, they were married!
21:37
[SPEAKER_04]: The Minister, a friend of the girls, father, bowed in secrecy on the ceremony.
21:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Though few knew of the reason why the small, oceanarian prospered after that day, as more and rare or seabies were captured.
21:50
[SPEAKER_01]: She married an undersea man and they just started collecting fucking rare animals and putting them on display, we suppose.
21:56
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, work, listen, I guess a girl's got to eat and a girl's got to do fishing like, I don't know that would be loud day.
22:04
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how it is, but I don't think so either.
22:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Then one day an attendant was careless.
22:09
[SPEAKER_04]: A girl was in the tank and lear on fought bravely, desperately to protect her two people of two wildly different worlds had entered the tank that day, but only one came out again.
22:21
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you're going to need a Los Angeles.
22:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, we see like some giant sharks have been captured and they like completely consume Lyron.
22:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So like the the father the guy the undersea guy is dead at this point.
22:34
[SPEAKER_04]: I love that I got in your notes.
22:35
[SPEAKER_04]: So just as we see one of the giant sharks had completely consumed him and she didn't use wild.
22:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Yet of that fleeting union twin baby girls were born.
22:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll call you, Lori, and you, Lira, after your father.
22:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so Lori and Lira, twin baby girls, the union of Lemurian man with a woman who owns an ocean area.
22:58
[SPEAKER_04]: And Hawaii.
22:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, in Hawaii?
23:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, name or...
23:01
[SPEAKER_04]: I was one of those children fated after my guild's developed at the age of six months to dwell forever underwater.
23:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Long have I lowed this existence for no man beneath the sea, not even Carthon could hope to be equal to my power.
23:18
[SPEAKER_04]: None save you, Neymor.
23:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so the origin is twins were born one of them develops guilds in like has to live in a tank.
23:25
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what we're told.
23:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's Lyra, the other one is Laura.
23:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So Lera puts a hand on name or space.
23:30
[SPEAKER_01]: She's all flirty flirty.
23:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you're so hot.
23:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god, she loves him I love that she's like all angry and then immediately switches gears to be like, but I still want to fuck like it's like a media We all have stuck with someone like this all of us
23:44
[SPEAKER_04]: What say you at Lantian, shall we join forces, you and I to conquer land and see a like?
23:52
[SPEAKER_01]: The tale of your birth is not unlike my own lair, and you remind me of myself when I was young and ambitious and cruel, but now my one desire is for peace with honor, and there is no room for conquest in my life, and he pushes her hand away.
24:04
[SPEAKER_04]: So, that is your answer, then I shall grind you beneath my heel, even as I did noble carthorn.
24:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And she literally summons electric eel monsters, which is very Ursula, to knock
24:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Namore wakes up in a cage inside the ocean area, but where the twin, Lori, who's the white version of Lyra, like the Caucasian version, is keeping him on display with chemicals that keep him unable to break through the glass.
24:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Namore ends up breaking free with the help of Lori and Lyra's mother, who is named Rhonda.
24:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Rhonda Morris is her name.
24:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Rhonda helps get name more out, but Lyra is waiting.
24:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's under to see, and she summons a hammer head, and octopus, some fangued fish, a sperm whale,
24:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And Namor has to like fight the whale.
24:56
[SPEAKER_01]: He knocks out Lyra and maybe kills her.
25:00
[SPEAKER_01]: He takes her to the surface to bury her.
25:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And when he gets her up into the oxygen, she changes form into Lori.
25:07
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not twins or they are.
25:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So Glenn, this is my first huge question for you.
25:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Our Lyra and Lori two people living in the same body were our Lyra and Lori the same person, but it's like a mental illness like a like a like a multiple personality switch when she's on this land, it's one and when she's under the ocean, it's the other I don't know if it's ever quite but explained I don't think it's been explained either and I was actually going to do a story with that were actually a work.
25:33
[SPEAKER_00]: who different people and then she assumed the identity of Lori after Lori died.
25:38
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a story that I had planned, you know, what, you know, a few months after I left the book, but I was, that's one thing I wanted to do with the series was take, you know, whatever happened to Lori.
25:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but one of her mutant powers, Leira, we learn, is that she can shift her hair color and her skin color.
25:54
[SPEAKER_01]: She's not a traditional shape shifter, although she does seem to be able to alter her hair, like the length and things.
26:01
[SPEAKER_01]: There's like a low level power.
26:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know if she's pretending.
26:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if she's crazy.
26:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if this is actually her twin and like it lives inside her.
26:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like Professor X and Cassandra Nova sharing a body.
26:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.
26:12
[SPEAKER_04]: But I wonder if her powers are kind of like an octopus where they can like fully shift everything around them but you can still tell it's an octopus like if that makes sense like they're like they can like move all of their like they can change like every color and like, you know, they're like a car fish.
26:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so it's it's it's an interesting power to give a C person because like it's it's like oh, it's still kind of makes sense for it I also watch the entire Disney documentary about octopuses and they are insane.
26:45
[SPEAKER_01]: They're amazing.
26:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, they're also fully alien
26:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So at the end of that first appearance, Leira is dead.
26:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Which we assume means Carthon is back in control of Lemuria.
26:54
[SPEAKER_01]: We never quite see that followed up on all the way up into Lemuria a lot of times.
26:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think Carthon has ever appeared again.
26:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's a couple issues later.
27:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Leira still does not, this is not a woman you say no to.
27:03
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the lady that will stalk you and murder your family.
27:06
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're married, she'll kill your wife so that she can marry you.
27:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's the wedding of Neymor the Submariner to the Leady Dorma who is a character.
27:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a enormously fond of a Glen or you a Leady Dorma fan.
27:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I love Leady Dorma.
27:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I wish that she had stuck around, but as we are about to see, that does not happen.
27:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, it doesn't.
27:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So it is the announced wedding.
27:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very little mermaid.
27:30
[SPEAKER_01]: They're very excited about all of this.
27:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But we return to the Morris Ocean area in Hawaii.
27:35
[SPEAKER_01]: We're on the Morris is keeping Lyra in a water tank.
27:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Remembering how she used to dive down to get sunken treasures for her mom in order to make her wealthy.
27:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, it turns out they have two ocean areas, one in Hawaii and one in Florida.
27:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So, this family's doing fine.
27:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Pilfering the riches of the undersea environment.
27:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So, now we are in Florida and Rhonda has spent all of her money on a machine that is going to reawaken dormant sea creatures.
28:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And she can use it to re-animate Lyra.
28:02
[SPEAKER_01]: This is bizarre science, you guys.
28:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So at the wedding ceremony, Lyra poses as Dorma.
28:07
[SPEAKER_01]: This is her first time using her power to pose us someone to try to fuck name more.
28:11
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna remember this later.
28:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And she marries name more in Dorma's form.
28:17
[SPEAKER_01]: But when he kisses his wife, he's like, wait a minute, that's not how Dorma kisses.
28:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And she says,
28:22
[SPEAKER_04]: The woman who you are forever married whose bonds to you can never be broken is lira Late the Empress of far off the myoria and now we're in of all Atlantis This is literally Ursula's plot
28:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So in the next few years, it turns out there I had some Lemurians kidnapped and hide Dorma in a secret place.
28:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And there is going to kill Dorma unless Namor is like, yes, you're my queen, and yes, you control Atlantis.
28:49
[SPEAKER_01]: But he says, never, not in a thousand lifetimes show a submit to base blackmail.
28:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Then it is you who have truly doomed your love not eye.
28:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And name more chases Lyra around, grabs her by the hair and is like, look, I don't hit women, but now I shall hit my wife and the god produce actually says the marriage is invalid like the undersea god is like, yeah, she's posing as someone else the god calls Lyra an ambitious true and she swims off like covers her escape with a bunch of sea creatures and then goes back to where she's keeping Dorma in a tank in the Florida oceanarium.
29:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, so the henchmen call over the intercom calling Lyra calling Lyra, Namor is attacking and he jumps in and he calls her a black heart at a heartbeat and Lyra has a cute little breathing helmet on and Namor beats up her guards and she, uh, she's like, oh no, he's beating me faster than I was ready.
29:39
[SPEAKER_01]: But she's ready for a big dramatic finale.
29:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So he fights off a giant.
29:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Crab.
29:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Lera shatters the glass and Dorma comes like spilling out and is now choking on oxygen and can't breathe.
29:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Lera talks her as this woman is dying, like choking to death in front of her.
29:52
[SPEAKER_04]: She says, ignorance, see cow.
29:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't you realize it was my plan all along that you two who love each other in so modeling a fashion, should perish at the same time.
30:03
[SPEAKER_04]: And in the best traditions of melodrama, you, a child of the oceans, gasping your
30:10
[SPEAKER_04]: open air, and he was equally a creature of the land falling beneath the onslaught of a very special foe.
30:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Dye, silently my dear, while I use my mental powers to summon my OOECHES!
30:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And horrifically, tens of thousands of leeches cover NAMOR's body.
30:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's truly horrifying.
30:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And Dorma, with her dying gas, punches Lyra in the back of the head, the leeches float away because she's lost her control, and Dorma's just about to perish.
30:39
[SPEAKER_01]: NAMOR rushes in, scoops up Dorma's body, and her last words to him.
30:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I must try to speak to say, I'd love you one last time before.
30:49
[SPEAKER_01]: A name war walks out with his lady love in his hands.
30:52
[SPEAKER_01]: His shadow, it's this really beautiful image.
30:54
[SPEAKER_01]: His shadow runs like really extra long, conveying like the weighted of the moment.
30:57
[SPEAKER_01]: He steps into the ocean, Dorma!
31:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And he tells himself, you have been proud, name war.
31:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Hottie, Lord of an ancient land, and there are those who will swear that you never truly loved the girl.
31:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You hold in your arms because you seldom held her close, or called her endearing names.
31:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But those scuffling ones do not stand this night upon a foam,
31:18
[SPEAKER_01]: or hear you cry out to the mocking ghost haunted wind, if they did, then perhaps they would understand, perhaps.
31:24
[SPEAKER_01]: You guys, this is insane.
31:26
[SPEAKER_01]: 1973 is when Gwen Stacy dies.
31:30
[SPEAKER_01]: This is before that.
31:32
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a love interest of a major superhero dying in his arms murdered by this crazy fucking woman.
31:38
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm nameora has a much more robust love life than Peter Parker ever did, right?
31:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So like he's had a lot of different, you know, love throughout his life.
31:48
[SPEAKER_00]: But this was his first true love.
31:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Dormora was the one that was going to be, she was going to be his queen.
31:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love that ending where, you know, we're saying, you know, he was never allowed to show that emotion to her in public because he had to be that,
32:01
[SPEAKER_00]: that regal being and could never be, but, you know, deep down, he loved her more than anything and anybody he is loving or probably more than anyone ever since really.
32:11
[SPEAKER_01]: There, I can't remember her name.
32:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, no, I do, uh, so I used to read all the Nancy drew on Hardy Boys books, like back when they were originally out.
32:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the early 90s, they, like, rebranded the books.
32:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, under, they were trying to make them a little more grown-up.
32:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, the continuity mattered.
32:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the very first book, uh, I think it was Joe's girlfriend,
32:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh, like they killed this major character.
32:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It was so starting it for anyone who reads the Hardy Boys books.
32:33
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm talking about.
32:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is a crazy moment.
32:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this is a moment where kids pick up this book.
32:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's like a death.
32:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Demanda, what are your thoughts on this?
32:41
[SPEAKER_01]: From one ignorant sea cow to another.
32:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
32:53
[SPEAKER_04]: because I mean, honestly, and truly, she's dying to serve neighbors' character, obviously.
33:00
[SPEAKER_04]: It's to then move his story forward and have him agree for a while and then kind of move on and all of that stuff.
33:07
[SPEAKER_04]: So I don't know if it's truly fridging, but it's also around the time when this does become a bit of a popular trope, because another famous, I guess it may be 10 years later,
33:20
[SPEAKER_04]: And the mid 80s is when Black Canary gets captured by like all of these robes and it's heavily implied that she is sexually assaulted numerous times by these by these people and anyway.
33:32
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's like it's like as someone used to read Gail Simone's original women and refrigerators blog 100 years ago when the internet was new.
33:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, like this definitely sort of has that air about it.
33:44
[SPEAKER_04]: But again, killed by a rival love interest granted.
33:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Unrequited, he definitely does not want to have a relationship with with Lyra, but it's at least an interesting twist on a like hard trope.
33:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And what have we learned about Lyra's psychology in this first appearance?
34:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Our first set of appearance is Glenn.
34:02
[SPEAKER_00]: She's just she's a nut job.
34:03
[SPEAKER_00]: She uses a total fucking nut job and she she might be bipolar with every you know They were probably and even probably split personality and who knows if even Lori is still existing somewhere in there We don't know and you know, and when we saw Lori for the first time Lori was just as evil as her right?
34:21
[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't she wasn't the so you know, I do these two evil beings living inside you.
34:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god There's no hope for you
34:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that she's just I mean, it's it's truly evil, but she's like just macabellian like like calling Dorma names that she chokes to death basically This is a crazy powerful female villain on the likes of like on the same par as like Madame Hydra like I think she has a really strong and like this is an era where women get to be evil evil and she's one of the really evil ones And like she's literally like and choke on it like she literally
34:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Like said that she's like and again bring all of the mellow drama and whatever she's like, oh, no, I planned all of I'm going to watch you die and then I'm going to sleep with your husband and then I'm going to like ravage your city for every resource I can get out like it's going to be it's going to be delicious.
35:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So she comes back a little while later it's about a year later in the comics where she's teamed up with Tiger Shark Tiger Shark is an Olympic swimmer named Todd Arles who got injured and then an evil scientist bonded him with an actual tiger shark So now he's like crazy shark like all the time.
35:24
[SPEAKER_01]: He's he's got a lot of really fun stories So they're teaming up.
35:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It is not a good combination tiger shark just call it keeps calling her like a wedge and his little buddy Lymondo is here That's the worst name in comics baby Lymondo is a terrible thing
35:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and basically the human torch gets involved, Alira summons some monsters.
35:40
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the end of this story, Tiger Shark murders Namor's dad, letter McKett, letter McKenzie dies at the hands of Tiger Shark.
35:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Namor in a year has lost his bride and his father.
35:49
[SPEAKER_01]: We then jumped to Submariner 50, and this is again early 70s, where Alira is back once again, and this time she's teamed up with the Namor's like evil cousin, Bira, who's like a guy with a blonde beard.
35:59
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got blue skin, he's fine.
36:00
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the shitty kid that wants to like rule the country.
36:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You see, you see this character and all the like gladiator movies, right?
36:06
[SPEAKER_04]: I was also saying he's also, but it was the Ocean Master and the Aquaman series, like, like the evil brother.
36:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, Aquaman, that's a whole gadget.
36:16
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't have time for today.
36:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So, she wants revenge and name more in this story, this is where he learns he has a little cousin named NAMORIDA, and she is present, and Lira is like delighting in this revelation.
36:30
[SPEAKER_01]: NAMORIDA points out to name more in one place, like look behind you name more, like Lira is back basically, and Lira gives us this juicy dialogue.
36:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, take a look, Galen Prince.
36:40
[SPEAKER_04]: It may be your last.
36:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Tis true.
36:43
[SPEAKER_04]: We've not met for many moons or tides, if you will.
36:47
[SPEAKER_04]: But we parted with vengeance.
36:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Yet I doubt not that you will yet remember.
36:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You!
36:53
[SPEAKER_01]: My eyes deceive me.
36:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It's but a dream, nay, no dream at all.
36:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Murderous, slayer of my beloved lady, Dorma.
36:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Accessory to my earth father's death I remember understandably Ignat of ignom the nomening the minis Minis what this sourced is this woman having the ocean?
37:13
[SPEAKER_04]: But ignominious one, no one forgets.
37:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Lera, late the lamented Empress of Lamiaria, nor does she forget the spurning of her chosen betrothed you.
37:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Scur, scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic scurlic
37:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and she literally uses the old phrase, how have no fury like a woman's score?
37:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And a name worth like, you would compound the felony woman killy then and be done.
37:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And she has a gun and fires it.
37:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, I have enough power to be able to do this.
37:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Namewars like, hatred is sweet to save her callous, which, and it fortifies every fiber of my being.
37:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I really hate Neymor speaking Shakespearean.
38:02
[SPEAKER_01]: He killed the only thing I've ever loved and for that, you shall die.
38:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And he swims right into her and the gun scatters.
38:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're, like, Neymor just dumps her in the mud and like swims away.
38:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's a weird resolution.
38:13
[SPEAKER_01]: In 51, we start to see Neymor read a flashing back to her own childhood.
38:17
[SPEAKER_01]: This is where we get the Neymora tie in Neymora.
38:19
[SPEAKER_01]: After the World War II, it went to live with the Lemurians.
38:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And she, like, ended up fighting with Lyra a bunch, which makes Lyra like 15 years older than we originally thought.
38:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's like deeper connections to Lemurie than we thought as well.
38:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And they want they both like want the throne.
38:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But the the heir to the throne is a guy named Murrow, M.E.R.R.O.
38:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So Lyra ends up poisoning Nemora, who like enters like a living death coma for like 40 years.
38:44
[SPEAKER_01]: There's something after this, but she doesn't revive until the agents of Atlas.
38:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Lyra married Maro, and she points, she poisons Maro, and then she allies with Vera and makes plans to conquer Atlantis with him.
38:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And then she promises to be Vera's consort one day.
38:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, Namorita ends up getting raised by Lyra and Vera.
39:03
[SPEAKER_01]: The first of all, Lyra and Vera is a terrible couple today.
39:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're raising Namorita as their own.
39:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And now we have this new plot against Namor, and they like show him Nemora's corpse.
39:17
[SPEAKER_01]: But you remember a few years back, I actually murdered your cousin too.
39:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought you were wondering what happened to her.
39:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Crazy Red Con.
39:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But what are your thoughts on this kind of deepening lower for Lyra in the undersea world?
39:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, it's just one of those things where she's killing every woman who ever meant anything to name more.
39:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So you see these things where he's just dumping her off.
39:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm surprised he did not make sure that she was dead at the end of every single confrontation.
39:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, but you know, I did the same thing.
39:49
[SPEAKER_01]: She had he actually left her alone again in one of the stories that I wrote So it's really shockingly violent where it all ends for each of these stories like she's murdered a lot of people that he cares about Demanded you have thoughts.
40:03
[SPEAKER_04]: I wonder if because of the times it was written that it was like well We can't have name or like killing a woman
40:10
[SPEAKER_04]: like on panel.
40:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And also, I mean, it is the sort of serialized storytelling of comics where, again, there, you should always leave it a little open-ended in case someone wants to go back and use this character again, or, you know, they have plans on the road, or something.
40:25
[SPEAKER_04]: So, like, it makes sense, but, like, in real life, like, you know that name words definitely would have like, ripped her face off.
40:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Both, both Dorma and Gwen Stacy's deaths are really resonant, right?
40:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, Dorma could have been saved under the right circumstances.
40:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And when Spider-Man shoots that web and Gwen's off the bridge and her neck pops, you know what I mean?
40:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, they're both really sad and kind of akin to each other.
40:45
[SPEAKER_04]: And also, like, they really haven't, like, come back officially.
40:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, there's been alternate universes and, you know, stuff like that.
40:52
[SPEAKER_04]: But there are also, like, deaths because they really mattered.
40:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Haven't really been undouched.
40:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Dorma was one of the exiles for a while.
40:58
[SPEAKER_01]: We're like an alternate Dorma, which is amazing.
41:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So, amazing Spider-Man 2013 through 2015 is where we next see Lyra.
41:04
[SPEAKER_01]: She uses an octopus to break the wizard out of prison.
41:07
[SPEAKER_01]: We're on top of the wizard today, but this isn't crazy character too.
41:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And Lyra watches a muse as the wizard goes after Spider-Man and they recruit Sandman and the traps her into the new frightful four.
41:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, pause.
41:18
[SPEAKER_01]: My listeners will know I've shared this before.
41:19
[SPEAKER_01]: The reason I ended up getting recruited to the hand because I used to write survivor fan fiction online starring Marvel characters.
41:25
[SPEAKER_01]: My first two seasons were about the masters of evil.
41:27
[SPEAKER_01]: My third season was about the Serpent Society, and my fourth season was called the Sinister 6 versus the frightful four, and Lyra was one of my cast members.
41:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got to research her and write her in this like fan fictional series.
41:37
[SPEAKER_01]: and later right her in the handbooks, which was a lot of fun.
41:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, so they lure name more into a fight with Spider-Man, but Lyra also poses like a sexy new neighbor in like skimpy clothes and is like flirting with Peter Parker.
41:48
[SPEAKER_01]: She's breathing oxygen again, which maybe that happens when she turns Caucasian, I don't know.
41:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So she knows his real identity somehow.
41:55
[SPEAKER_01]: In the end, Spidey and Neymor end up getting their powers swapped and their pulls and knife on Spidey and Neymor just knocks her out in one punch.
42:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, she is left alive at the end of this story.
42:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I summarized that really quickly.
42:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a fun read.
42:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I was probably, I think I was editing or the system editor on those at that time.
42:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's pretty neat.
42:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely do you have any memories of that story?
42:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that was all on the, during the whole, was that the serpent crown?
42:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
42:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Or is that the, uh, lunch is, uh, I just, uh, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I
42:49
[SPEAKER_01]: That's this book, I'll do it.
42:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And please, I mean...
42:52
[SPEAKER_01]: He used his little fancy telepathic hat to like white name wars memories.
42:56
[SPEAKER_01]: That hat turns out to be the serpent crown, which then gets pulled into the rocks and stuff.
43:00
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll be touching on that later when we get to the Avengers script readings, because Beast is part of that story in the early Avengers.
43:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, fast forward.
43:07
[SPEAKER_01]: The serpent crown is connected to the Elder Gods set.
43:11
[SPEAKER_01]: SCT, who's a giant snake god that's like think very love crafty, right?
43:16
[SPEAKER_01]: He wants to come to Earth and he has seven heads and he needs seven brides, basically.
43:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Gar, who's the warlord priest of deviant Lemuria, is he's back, that he has plans and he's teeming up Lira for regular Lemuria, and the two of them go on a quest to do a whole bunch of things across a line of Marvel books called Marvel Annuals, and it's a storyline called Adlantis, attacks, and many people have read it.
43:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It has been,
43:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Collected a lot of times, there's a funny side stories.
43:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Lyra is only tangentially part of some of the stories, but it results in the seven brides of set storyline.
43:48
[SPEAKER_01]: We're like Scarlet Witch and Storm and other characters.
43:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Get like our gene-grade, it's selected to be the gods or the wives of this snakehead.
43:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Demand, are you a fan of Atlantis attacks?
43:59
[SPEAKER_04]: So, ah!
43:59
[SPEAKER_04]: I only know it from reading like synopsis of the Atlanta's text storyline as like, again, my tangently X-Men.
44:09
[SPEAKER_04]: So I have read most of my quote-unquote comics.
44:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, my comment comes from uncannyxman.net.
44:14
[SPEAKER_04]: So I've read a lot of these issues like in synopsis form.
44:18
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is one of them because again, like Gene and Scarlet Witch, like they all get chosen to be one of the, and it's, it's very, it's kind of like this, where she's like, they were chosen to be seven birds of set stuff happens magic magic magic, it all ends out and all ends up okay.
44:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And do you remember what, so I mean, they were always looking for ways to theme the annuals in the summer at this time, but do you remember how it just attacks comes about.
44:38
[SPEAKER_00]: that this was in the beginning when we were trying to come up with you know different themes for the annuals for you know every year and I remember when this was proposed and I was not a big at the time I was like how often are these guys going to get their asses came when they come out there with their fish bowls on their head is kind of you know
44:56
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, killer clowns from outer space, you just got a plop them in the nose and they explode.
45:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And the same thing with, you know, these fishbowl guys is cracking in the head, they can't breathe anymore.
45:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Why did they want the surface world?
45:06
[SPEAKER_00]: What do they get to do with it when they're there?
45:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I never quite understood that whole lot, except.
45:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So my favorite annual is the new mutants one because there's that frotious horn that summons the sea monsters and the kids get to fight that's really fun.
45:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Lira is basically involved in the plot of this and she and Gar are like kind of scheming on each other but they're planning to take over the world.
45:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Her most prominent appearance in this run is an amazing spider-man annual 23 and she gets to say things like, hey, I'll set.
45:31
[SPEAKER_01]: She makes a deal with the gay Roman Emperor Tyrannus from subterranean who is another character.
45:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So much I would love to talk about
45:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Truly don't worry about it.
45:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a crazy thing.
45:42
[SPEAKER_01]: They end up turning him back into his human form and when he pops out and these like little tiny tight white panties Like it's truly hilarious Sharon, this is a funny character.
45:52
[SPEAKER_01]: She also gets to visit Magneto's like bermuda triangle island in one issue Which is kind of fun and in the end of course they get their asses kicked
45:59
[SPEAKER_01]: In Fantastic Four annual 22, which results in the end of the storyline, Lira gets a big power boost by set because he has joined the Seven Brides and are with the Seven Brides, and she's prepared to sacrifice her entire army.
46:12
[SPEAKER_01]: She fights NAMOR directly like she's up in power and able to fight him.
46:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And she tries to trick him into killing Nameda Rita, but he ends up with his hands around her throat and when the serpent crown disappears, she does as well.
46:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And that brings us up to Namor in the 90s, which is most of Lyra's appearances.
46:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to have any thoughts on her early history before we jump into some of your work with her.
46:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, I do my research meticulously, so I really wanted to make sure that I understood the character before I brought her in.
46:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And I really needed to resolve some of the flat threads that burn had left.
46:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I was done, and I wanted to really just put it in.
46:47
[SPEAKER_00]: bring that someone classic and they said, you know what, this makes sense.
46:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And yet did I extend her shapeshifting abilities maybe a bit.
46:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I did, but you know, she was also able to mimic a dorma, right?
46:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So she, her shapeshifting abilities was more than just her skin and her hair.
47:03
[SPEAKER_00]: She was able to like convince, you know, name or that it was that was his bride to be until they kissed.
47:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
47:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So I thought, you know, hey, how, where can I bring this in?
47:13
[SPEAKER_00]: What is her motive?
47:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, her motive is pretty much the same as it always was, right?
47:17
[SPEAKER_00]: She wants the thrones of both.
47:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Atlanta's and Lamar is she wants to bring them together.
47:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I had the whole Vera thing on top of it.
47:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So I kind of bring them all together.
47:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I had to bring all these flap points that burn had left just dangling there, which she did a lot.
47:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had to bring them all into and try to resolve them all.
47:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And I turned crazy in this one.
47:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause he's been like 14 issues exploring one tiny subplot that could have been done in two pages, but then he'll completely ignore other things.
47:44
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is name or trying to be an
47:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is one of the odd theories burn produces for name or is he's like sometimes a good guy sometimes a bad guy basically because of oxygen deprivation like if he's too long on the land or in the sea also he's sterile but later another writer like he
48:03
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think Lyra, I think for everything we know about her, there's three things we don't.
48:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, she is shady with her origin, she is shady with her powers.
48:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You can app up those shape shifting powers all you want because we don't know what her deal is.
48:15
[SPEAKER_04]: And her parents right before that, she gets like the power boost from sad and crying.
48:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so it works.
48:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, go demand it, that's what happened.
48:24
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go, you get a no prize demand.
48:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, no prize.
48:28
[SPEAKER_04]: I keep my little collection, my little collection of no prizes.
48:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So NAMOR is running Oracle Incorporated, which is like an environmentalist agency.
48:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Although, glad you kind of phased that part of his story out a little bit, which is appropriate, I think.
48:41
[SPEAKER_01]: That part of him, NAMOR and the business suit only worked for a minute for me in some ways.
48:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Phoebe Mars is like a very night early nineties, like power boss bitch, like Spikey, crew cut hair, and like short skirt.
48:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's who Lyra poses as,
48:56
[SPEAKER_01]: In order to fuck Namor's nephew, Leon Mackenzie, who's a shitty supervillain named the Black Mare.
49:02
[SPEAKER_01]: She gets pregnant as a result of this, and then what does she do, Glenn?
49:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Then she goes to Namor and she poses as Sue Richard, who had just lost Reed at the time, and she was on a quest tube.
49:15
[SPEAKER_00]: She was the only person that didn't think Reed was dead, everyone's like, already he's gone, and even Namor was like,
49:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Come on, Sue.
49:20
[SPEAKER_00]: He's gone.
49:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Let you and I go, go to it.
49:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, no way anymore.
49:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I could do it.
49:24
[SPEAKER_00]: But then Lyra takes over and becomes Sue.
49:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And then a moment of weakness seduce is name or at night.
49:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And then boom.
49:33
[SPEAKER_01]: The name or fuck Sue Richards.
49:35
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's really Lyra, which is a rapist story.
49:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we have to be clear.
49:40
[SPEAKER_01]: But also hilarious.
49:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, there is a scene in there where, you know, where Sue, where he, you know, where Sue learns what she did.
49:50
[SPEAKER_00]: She just kind of scoff at it.
49:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, come on, name where you're a playboy.
49:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So watch, she fucked you, right?
49:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's hells her.
49:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It was done to you.
49:57
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be called something else, right?
49:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this is a blind spot for me.
50:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's come up on my show before when it's a female getting raped.
50:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I am very strong feelings against.
50:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But when it's like a super villainous doing it to a man, there's something that I find amusing, but that's totally like bias.
50:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm a therapist.
50:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have odd biases that we discover sometimes.
50:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is funny, this is a chunky chewy story.
50:17
[SPEAKER_01]: When she reveals who she really is, demanded you wanna give us her line.
50:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, name or we finally consummated our marriage of so long ago.
50:26
[SPEAKER_01]: This woman has been waiting for years to fuck this man.
50:28
[SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't even want him anymore, but she said she was going to do it and she fucking did it.
50:32
[SPEAKER_01]: She's so milk here as well.
50:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Jeff is sure would draw us her like so juicy.
50:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Like she's so juicy.
50:40
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a full page of her in this run where she's just like dripping with like
50:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that for me.
50:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm crazy.
50:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember getting that art back when?
50:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause it's nuts.
50:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I loved any time I got anything from Jeff.
50:58
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just wonderful to script.
51:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, so we, you know, so we always did the Marvel method.
51:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would send plot, it would come back.
51:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And he would add things to it was like, oh, I can't wait to script this.
51:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot wait to, you know, dialogue this.
51:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, hopefully my, a fear of my Lyra voice comes as cross as well as demand is doing it.
51:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Neymor gets the FF involved, Elijah the laser fist is here.
51:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, there's a big fight, and Neymor is going to kill her, but she's like, remember how we fucked yesterday, turns out, I'm pregnant.
51:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Until a few years later, it's 53, Lira goes to Vera, who's in the body of Dormat.
51:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Glenn, I'm going to let you explain this to our listeners.
51:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So what the reason that so and he starts laughing at the end of that issue name more starts cracking up when she says I'm pregnant, you know, based on you and I having sex, you know, and then the fan has it for look at name Or like he's going nuts.
51:50
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going met but because he knows no one else does he knows that because he's a hybrid He is sterile and that's why he's like, yeah
51:58
[SPEAKER_00]: You really, you think that you, you've got my son inside you.
52:02
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a screwer than I thought and he just starts cracking up.
52:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why, you know, then later on, she goes, that's why she needed to get his genetic material from his nearest living relative to impregnate her and that's why then she goes to Vera and then wants to force grow the fetus into a full grown.
52:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So Vera is like a little while, like, why are he, like, genetic scientists, who's like an outcast.
52:26
[SPEAKER_01]: He lives in, like, a cave all by himself.
52:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And he has, like, some problems.
52:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And he has now created a cloned body of Dorma's to transfer his own mind into, which is kind of an odd, like, transgender story in a way.
52:40
[SPEAKER_01]: This man has, like, built the body that he wants.
52:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And so now, Vera wants to, like, she, this is not a patient woman.
52:46
[SPEAKER_01]: nor does she want to be pregnant for nine months.
52:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Nor does she want to give birth.
52:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's not interested in any of that.
52:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to know if it's a mother or not a process.
52:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Again, like we have science now.
52:55
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't have to do this.
52:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So he amps her up to like fully pregnant.
53:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And she says better that than to suffer the indignity of looking like a bloated pufferfish for nine months.
53:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Vera makes Lyra promise to take over Atlantis and build him a monument.
53:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And he says that he has copied Lyra's mind and put it into the fetus that is in her body, which is what he did with Nemora and Nemorida, remember?
53:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So Lyra thinks that she's going to give birth to her son with her own mind.
53:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's something about this like woman in a man's world who she just wants that man's body, so she can have the privilege and power that everyone else does.
53:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very, very interesting.
53:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So the baby's born, she names her kid, Learen, after her father, presumably.
53:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And the second he comes out of the tank, he's aged up to the age of 16.
53:44
[SPEAKER_01]: This is 16-year-old, demanded describe this character for us.
53:48
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the 16-year-old, the 18-year-old, the 18-year-old, the 18-year-old, the 18-year-old, the 16-year-old, the 16-year-old, the 16-year-old, the 16-year-old, the 16-year-old, the 16-year-old, the 16-year-old, the 16-year-old, the 16-year-old, the 16-year-old, the 16-year-old, the 16-year-old, the 16-year-old, the 16-year-old, the 16-year-old,
53:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, it is very, 902 on a, it's very 16 year old, but we still cast a 26 year old so we can work full time.
54:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, he is extremely beefy, but I do enjoy the, the fact that he has like bat wings on his ankles, but he's also green like his mother, just like a beefier version of, of name more.
54:18
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, also in the way that he's drawn, and especially like, you know, that very 90 style.
54:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, he's hot, again, just like a cast member
54:28
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like green sexy name words like a little more of a sleigh a little more lean somehow And it's the it's the reptile wings.
54:34
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a crazy character that I think has a lot of potential I'm glad I think you had big plans for him which is one of my questions for you to move it Oh, once Laryn comes out of the tank Lira swims over and murders Vera like breaks his neck
54:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And Lyra can sense it, Lyra can sense it coming because here's the spoiler.
54:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Lyra actually put his own mind into Lyra's body.
54:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Lyra thinks it's her mind, and that would not have worked by the way.
54:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Lyra versus Lyra in a man's body.
54:58
[SPEAKER_01]: She was not going to win that contestant with, I don't think.
55:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But now Vera's mind is in that body.
55:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so Tiger Shark at a character named Tamara Iran who is an alien red lady.
55:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't need to know more.
55:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Have arrived.
55:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Liren and Lira swim to the gates of Atlantis and they're like, it's name or sun and we show now take over and they fight Tiger Shark and Tamara to like defeat them and show their strength.
55:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Name or seize Liren for the first time and of course they get an affist fight.
55:24
[SPEAKER_01]: We jump forward.
55:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Liren leads Atlantis to the United Nations where he
55:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is interesting because he's kind of doing that thing that NAMOR was never able to, which is fascinating.
55:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And Lyra is super pissed in summons like Gigantus, which is like the monster whale to fight.
55:40
[SPEAKER_01]: She has the horn of produce, which I love.
55:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Blow the horn into monster appears.
55:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's my favorite thing.
55:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And NAMOR bursts through the wall.
55:45
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a huge fight.
55:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Lyra and then kills Gigantus with one punch through the skull.
55:50
[SPEAKER_01]: when shows you what Namewa is capable of.
55:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he's doing that thing where like years later, Dan's lot gave us the story.
55:56
[SPEAKER_01]: We're Dr. Octopus took over Spider-Man's body and then he was a better Spider-Man than Spidey was.
56:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Laeran's kind of doing that for a Namewa either way here.
56:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But so we learn that Vera is in command of this body and Laeran is now in command of Atlantis and the reason she finally realizes
56:13
[SPEAKER_01]: that Vera is in her mind.
56:15
[SPEAKER_01]: In her son's mind is Lyra and builds a statue of Vera, which is what Vera wanted her to do.
56:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, wait a minute, I would never have done this.
56:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So the next thing he does is he frames his mother for stealing the horn of produce and has her thrown in jail and like chained up.
56:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's there for years.
56:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So Glenn, do you want to talk about what your plans were with Lyra and Lyra, and if the book had not been canceled so unceremoniously?
56:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Lyra, I mean, ultimately during the whole fan, the Atlanta rising, he was a hero.
56:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Lyra was actually hero.
56:48
[SPEAKER_00]: He was trying to save.
56:50
[SPEAKER_00]: his people.
56:51
[SPEAKER_00]: He was trying to say, you know, and that's what Vera really wanted Vera wanted to show that he, because he was in this decrepit body.
56:59
[SPEAKER_00]: He was like, you know, he had the dwarfism and whatever else.
57:02
[SPEAKER_00]: He was like, you know, he was never taken seriously, but he had ideas.
57:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And he just wanted what was best for his people.
57:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And so ultimately, he'll, they come to Namorans that you're never around dude.
57:12
[SPEAKER_00]: You're always off with the X man or the band you're doing these other things and you're trying to, you know, fuck Sue and everything all the time.
57:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?
57:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?
57:18
[SPEAKER_00]: You're never around.
57:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's made to realize you know what?
57:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not.
57:22
[SPEAKER_00]: We have someone here now who can physically take care of Atlantis with someone who cares about Atlantis, but he would then say to Vera what I'm watching you.
57:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
57:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
57:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So you get to write these characters one more time and the second story in fantastic for unlimited number 11 with her trippy, which is a fun combination.
57:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd love to hear about where it's great with her.
57:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And Lannis has suffered a devastating attack, and there's all these corpses on the ground.
57:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And Lira is
57:48
[SPEAKER_01]: has the military and leaves like the city is abandoned but he just leaves Lyra like chained up in this like wreckage.
57:55
[SPEAKER_01]: She's just like it's like very zombie apocalypse.
57:57
[SPEAKER_01]: She got chained to the wall and everyone's dead around here and they were finds her down there and she's got a little bit crazy and she's like like that's not my that's not my mind and my son's body.
58:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It's that evil scientist who made me like give birth faster anyway.
58:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Lyra proposes like name or we can work together.
58:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go after Lyra and he's like bitch.
58:15
[SPEAKER_01]: No, and he tosses a dead fish at her It's like good luck.
58:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Like so I was long as you want and then just leaves her there and it's so good It's like he should have killed her probably, but it's so good.
58:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to talk about writing again?
58:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And what was it like to work again?
58:26
[SPEAKER_00]: He leaves her alive, right?
58:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but you know, he thinks he's she's got she's as good as dead, but how many times have villains done that to the heroes, right?
58:34
[SPEAKER_00]: What was it like working with her about this story?
58:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it was great.
58:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I was so happy that I got to work with her bond.
58:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I was a little, you know, herb was kind of doing his lifeout riff at the time.
58:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I was hoping I'd get true herb on it, but, you know, he was doing it.
58:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It was some fun stuff, and it was like, you know, because, again, I go back to my history as a comic book fan, and I was a total help fan when I first started collecting comics.
58:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And so herb was the first artist that I ever saw in the comic books.
59:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, who's kind of full circle now I'm working with herb.
59:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It was wonderful.
59:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Later this summer on my show, we're gonna be doing some episodes related to the rules of Marvel Magic.
59:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got some really fun stuff planned.
59:11
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a series of books called Mystic Arcana in the early 2000s by David Sexton, who's one of the handbook team that like I worked with.
59:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I've never met David, we get to meet on the show pretty soon, which I'm excited.
59:20
[SPEAKER_01]: He's gonna be really fun to collab with.
59:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But he did a book called Mystic Arcana Scarlet Witch.
59:24
[SPEAKER_01]: This is one of those like little series that takes all of the crazy Marvel divergent stuff and makes some rules for it that make it work, but it's dense.
59:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like encyclopedic dense.
59:32
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to like make notes and have spreadsheets to make sense of it all.
59:36
[SPEAKER_01]: But in this Scarlet Witch Mystic Arcana issue, which some X-Men fans may have read, there's a minor character named Ian McNee who visits sunken at Lantus because he's trying to gather a bunch of artifacts.
59:45
[SPEAKER_01]: He sees a swirling sea serpent there and it's Lyra.
59:48
[SPEAKER_01]: As she has like a snake tail now, and she's swimming around undersea Atlantis, he does a reading with her on a spell, and it says, the creature was once a little girl named Laura, who dreamed of being becoming a princess.
1:00:00
[SPEAKER_01]: The Laura grew up to be more than a princess.
1:00:02
[SPEAKER_01]: She became a queen named Lira, queen Lira wore a crown of serpents that was given to her by her master, the elder god set.
1:00:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But set took away her serpent crown and left her with a serpent's form instead.
1:00:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Lyra guards the crown she wants war.
1:00:16
[SPEAKER_01]: She isn't sure whether her new body is a punishment or a reward that she is not fond of her new job.
1:00:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And she hates the creature set as crowned as his new queen who is the snake woman Nagala.
1:00:28
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about Nagala another time.
1:00:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So Lyra, like, bargained with the gods and has now been cursed with this, like, serpentine body.
1:00:36
[SPEAKER_01]: She fights Nagala, uh, Ian McNuggets involved, and Lyra, like, mutates farther into a snake creature at the end of this story, and we've never seen her again.
1:00:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, what are your thoughts on this wrap-up for Lyra and the comics that she deserved?
1:00:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm full of you guys.
1:00:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that, you know, a lot of this, I was wondering, it almost looks like this picks up after the serpent crown saga and doesn't take into account anything that happened to her after that.
1:01:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was wondering where did this happen, where did set come back to her and do this to her?
1:01:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we're going to run on your human time scale.
1:01:11
[SPEAKER_01]: They will take their revenge whenever they see fit.
1:01:15
[SPEAKER_04]: her snake form is is kind of fun like it is interesting and I mean again if so if I were a writer which I am not but it's like a make it makes sense of my head I would think that like set comes back to be like hey I can finally come back now like let's do the thing Any season that she's now like this crazy woman tied to a wall who's like barely surviving I'd just be like okay you get to be snake guardian of the crown now like I'm not gonna leave you here chained
1:01:43
[SPEAKER_04]: crazy for me.
1:01:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Which I mean would kind of make sense.
1:01:47
[SPEAKER_04]: And also like when Ian McNee does this spell, he's getting the very like bare bones Wikipedia entry on like on her back from the spell.
1:01:57
[SPEAKER_04]: So I mean it's it's not gonna like he would think that with one of her biggest stories being that her son was the king of Atlantis.
1:02:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Like he would think that that would be something that
1:02:08
[SPEAKER_04]: but apparently the spell doesn't think so, which also like, I don't know, it's also kind of like, what a, what a come-up, and it's for a terrible character being like, yeah, you thought like you were doing something so cool and it's not even a blip on your wiki.
1:02:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, you're like, if any of you, you're nobody.
1:02:22
[SPEAKER_01]: If any of you jump to the Marvel Appendix, most of the Submariner profiles are written by me, anything with an in-chat man at the bottom, that's me.
1:02:28
[SPEAKER_01]: The Lear and Profile.
1:02:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Leirin comes back later in a group called Fathom 5, written by Fabian Nixieza in the New Thunderbolts run, and we've never seen him since, but it's fun to see that character utilized again.
1:02:38
[SPEAKER_01]: He has a lot of potential and a lot of connection to name or himself.
1:02:43
[SPEAKER_01]: My favorite thing about Leirah is that every story she gets to chew the scenery in a Mr. Sinister kind of way, right?
1:02:49
[SPEAKER_01]: She's so over the top and writers seem to really have fun with her.
1:02:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and you seem like you've had a blast writing this character.
1:02:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Not them you didn't have demand to do some of the dialogue.
1:03:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, I wrote
1:03:25
[SPEAKER_01]: her place in the mutant world, she has the potential to be like a really fun X-Men villain, her like mind control of secretures and her shapeshifting.
1:03:34
[SPEAKER_01]: She's kind of a crazy lady and she really wants power and there's so many innocent mutant characters she could go after.
1:03:40
[SPEAKER_01]: She's obsessed.
1:03:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Lyra versus Magneto is delightful.
1:03:45
[SPEAKER_01]: What are some of the stories you think we need regarding Lyra and then we'll start our wrap up?
1:03:49
[SPEAKER_00]: What I did with when I first started writing name
1:03:55
[SPEAKER_00]: he can ask and that's what I always like and I'd like that dichotomy with you know he doesn't command the sea creatures he asks for their help and but Lyra she commands the sea creatures so that's what I like you know a little bit different there between the two of them the story I would like would be you know I mean I had a whole bunch of things that we're going to be done I was going to have a whole all the sea gods during the Atlantis to
1:04:20
[SPEAKER_00]: now they're all pissed off that there's more land surface and not as much sea surface.
1:04:24
[SPEAKER_00]: They were always told, look, you won't have as many worshippers, but you'll have more area to rain over.
1:04:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we don't have as much terrain over, so we want more worshippers, and so there is going to be this whole, and we're going to have Norse God of the Sea fight name more, and then I had a lot of things that I want to do there, and I wanted to bring Lyra back, and I wanted to, you know, what is her origin?
1:04:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely who was, who was Lori?
1:04:48
[SPEAKER_00]: What is is Lori, you know, was it a congenital twin that it was absorbed into her somehow?
1:04:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Was there, you know, or are there a two personality still there or did that one personality ultimately die?
1:04:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's only there.
1:05:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So I really wanted to explore more of that.
1:05:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, what happened to Ronda?
1:05:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And what happened to Ronda?
1:05:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's right.
1:05:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And Karthan.
1:05:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So her mom is out there.
1:05:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Namedur gets pulled into the X-Men world from time to time.
1:05:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially during their utopia era.
1:05:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But we have evidence that there are lots of undersea mutants.
1:05:18
[SPEAKER_01]: From characters like Namedur and Namedur, to like more lesser non-characters.
1:05:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Frost still if anyone knows cross that was I was about to say like my story would be like having like a crazy adventure We're like cross-shot and like Lowa from from at the Academy x days and some other like more aquatic type characters Maybe squid boy cuz he's back now
1:05:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, I love squid boy.
1:05:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, and like have them just hang in there.
1:05:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Shark girl can be a shark girl.
1:05:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, shark girl.
1:05:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, and just have them just sort of like, you know, because like, we're now post croquois and then trying to figure out like, do we want to live in the seed?
1:05:52
[SPEAKER_04]: We want to like live on land.
1:05:53
[SPEAKER_04]: And most of them have to like live in both.
1:05:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe coming across Lira and like having her be like,
1:05:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I can like use these kids because none of them will probably have heard of me, and how can I manipulate these children into getting me, you know, back into power.
1:06:08
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that would be a really interesting little mini series.
1:06:11
[SPEAKER_00]: There's also like a light quality of the ocean.
1:06:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
1:06:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
1:06:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
1:06:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
1:06:14
[SPEAKER_01]: There's also a group of undersea mutants called surf.
1:06:17
[SPEAKER_01]: that are very little known.
1:06:18
[SPEAKER_01]: They show up in that new mutant Samuel we mentioned.
1:06:20
[SPEAKER_01]: One is eel who can like stretches body like Mr. Fantastic.
1:06:23
[SPEAKER_01]: One is shark skin who's like super strong.
1:06:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And one is under toe who can like control the water around him.
1:06:29
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a ton of super powered Atlantean characters and there's enough mutant mythology that I think there's some interesting stories that could be explored there.
1:06:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Leera is the perfect foil for this.
1:06:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Leera and gets involved because is Leera and a mutant too.
1:06:42
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a question I wanted to ask led as well.
1:06:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think he qualifies as a mutant?
1:06:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I definitely.
1:06:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't know.
1:06:48
[SPEAKER_00]: If you get powers from your parents, are you immune?
1:06:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, it always comes down to do you have the X gene or not.
1:06:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So if we're a half the X gene and she fucks name or is nephew, and then her child was born with the X gene, it would be the different.
1:07:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You either amutate or amutant, and I think it could be, you to, I don't know.
1:07:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:07:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:07:08
[SPEAKER_00]: The Franklin Richards is immune.
1:07:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Then why not?
1:07:10
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not.
1:07:11
[SPEAKER_00]: He's more.
1:07:14
[SPEAKER_01]: My episode, it's all I'm pretty worried about, Franklin Richards, that is definitively to say it stated.
1:07:18
[SPEAKER_01]: He is not of you at this point in time.
1:07:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, all right, then.
1:07:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Then I don't know if Lyron is.
1:07:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it just depends on the right, right?
1:07:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Or I think this character is delicious.
1:07:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I would love to play her off of Celine or Emma Frost or Cyclops.
1:07:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Shape shifting into like Emma's form and sneaking into Cyclops's bedroom.
1:07:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my goodness.
1:07:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Also like trying to have current saline do anything together because who's going to eat more like who's going to trip to scenery more Saline or Lira like it would be incredible, but we have not stated the one confrontation we must see above all others who's the one person that Lira must get in a fight with
1:07:58
[SPEAKER_04]: the invisible woman oh oh yeah right I mean because because also I again like you kind of mentioned that Sue kind of brushed it off and it's like I don't know I would be not if someone wore my face to like go like sexually assaults also I'm struggling more and you got to do it as me that's not fair
1:08:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Also that because it's like to me.
1:08:21
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the same thing.
1:08:22
[SPEAKER_04]: I talked about it when I did Extreats video about Misty one of the most baller things that Misty ever did was put on Carol's face to then murder her boyfriend with her bare hands And so he thought he was being murdered by Carol and then she videotaped it and then played it for Carol when she got home
1:08:41
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, I mean, it's like, that is evil beyond evil and it's like, yeah, like the mistaken lira kind of have that energy.
1:08:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it's also like really poorly drawn.
1:08:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't mean it's like that.
1:08:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's a clear amount story, but it's in a Marvel superheroes book in the early 90s.
1:08:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're watching Carol watch her, her boyfriend slash therapist get beat to death by mystique in her own form.
1:09:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And Carol spaces just like slowly like
1:09:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I love, we support women's drawings on this show.
1:09:10
[SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
1:09:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I would love to hear any final thoughts.
1:09:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And then where can people find you both online?
1:09:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there anything you want to plug?
1:09:16
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to put this out on the Patreon on April 23rd.
1:09:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I had a delightful time with you both.
1:09:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be thinking about this character.
1:09:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I fucking want to write the real housewives of the Marvel Universe.
1:09:26
[SPEAKER_01]: We're tossing her right in there with Sue Richards on the other side of the table.
1:09:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's going to be great.
1:09:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Mojo's running the whole thing.
1:09:33
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be awesome.
1:09:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go Glenn and the demand is the final plots where you can be found and then anything you want to plug.
1:09:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you're going to find me.
1:09:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm most still on Facebook.
1:09:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Still the only Glenn hurtling out there.
1:09:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can find me there on Instagram.
1:09:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Same thing.
1:09:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Only Glenn hurtling out there.
1:09:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not doing text.
1:09:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry folks.
1:09:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And then uh, but I like I said in the last episode, I'm gonna say here as well I'm starting a new app.
1:09:58
[SPEAKER_00]: It's called Adam stands for have a drink on me So if you go into a bar and you have the app you can let your friends know that you're at the bar So that you can know the aid they can join you or be your friends can buy you a drink
1:10:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It's great to see my friend and I have plans to have you back on already.
1:10:13
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to hang out with Janice Chang in a few weeks, which I'm very excited about.
1:10:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Going to be looking forward to it.
1:10:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Janice is wonderful.
1:10:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, to be in the martini, you can find me across most social media platforms.
1:10:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Again, it's mostly the
1:10:40
[SPEAKER_04]: you out there.
1:10:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't come.
1:10:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to do, but I can't come this year.
1:10:44
[SPEAKER_04]: That is devastating, but it's okay.
1:10:47
[SPEAKER_04]: It's okay.
1:10:48
[SPEAKER_04]: We will.
1:10:48
[SPEAKER_01]: My husband got a stick.
1:10:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's to the killby block party locally.
1:10:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a whole new new.
1:10:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And like we were expensive.
1:10:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can't go.
1:10:54
[SPEAKER_04]: So hopefully by April 23rd, we will have announced our new headliner is Jiggly Kelly Untay, famous from RuPaul's Drag Race.
1:11:03
[SPEAKER_04]: which will be very exciting.
1:11:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Also, I have my weekly baking show called Tumi, my ex-treats, where I bake little treats based on excellent characters using the Luciano Vecchio trading cards.
1:11:16
[SPEAKER_04]: So in April, because it's my birth, my birthday month, I'm doing my favorite characters from the original
1:11:22
[SPEAKER_04]: calibre this month, so I hope you guys have been enjoying that.
1:11:25
[SPEAKER_04]: And then in May, I just decided on calling it miscellaneous May from our friends at the Escape Mojoverse podcast because it is such a weird conglomeration of characters with the card set because it's from Luciano Vecchio's like commissions.
1:11:39
[SPEAKER_04]: There are some characters that like you just like they were just sort of like left over after like some characters just like kind of came together in certain months.
1:11:46
[SPEAKER_04]: So May is just kind of like the leftovers.
1:11:48
[SPEAKER_04]: They're great characters, please don't get me wrong, but they just kind of didn't fit in other months.
1:11:54
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're have miscellaneous May, and I'm really excited to just have a super random thanks.
1:12:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You have such charming energy when you host this little show.
1:12:03
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a little bit of a little dot-blad to know you.
1:12:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad the two of you got to meet as well, like this is just a fun crowd and I can't wait till we all get to hang out in person.
1:12:10
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be in New York, Glen, in August, so let's definitely plan like I talked to you on that.
1:12:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Please, we'll get together.
1:12:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Look me up.
1:12:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:12:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Lastly, I'm Chad Anderson.
1:12:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I keep my on social media.
1:12:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I got kiddos.
1:12:20
[SPEAKER_01]: The two of you are welcome to Adney just ask.
1:12:22
[SPEAKER_01]: They show you can follow Grimoch and underscore land on Instagram.
1:12:25
[SPEAKER_01]: The next picture I'm coming out immediately after this, we're building back into the 1980s into the world of the Micronauts.
1:12:30
[SPEAKER_01]: My friends Darrell and Alan are joining me, and we get to talk all about Acro Year, who's actually a really fucking great character.
1:12:35
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about it.
1:12:36
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of racial connotation with this character that's really interesting.
1:12:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's, he's mostly like a huge triumph, I think, that is largely overlooked.
1:12:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And then out on the main show right after this, we're going to be having the trial of Patsy Walker Hellcat, who's one of my favorite characters.
1:12:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So everybody watch out for that.
1:12:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you everybody for listening.
1:12:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I had so much fun today.
1:12:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you Glenn.
1:12:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, demand out.
1:12:55
[SPEAKER_01]: We will see you all back here next time on the Greenmonton Lane Patreon.
1:12:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And now stay tuned for some thoughts on fascism as a special guest and I talked about a red skull story and its modern applications.
1:13:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Beginning in 1964 with the debut of the brotherhood of evil mutants, a radical faction fighting from mutant supremacy,
1:13:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Marlva's extremist groups have been mirroring shifting global anxieties ever since, beginning back then, surfacing just as the Civil Rights Act was transforming the American landscape.
1:13:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Now the list I'm about to provide is certainly not comprehensive, but Hydrofollowed in 1965 is spousing fascist world domination in a time when Cold War proxy wars,
1:13:38
[SPEAKER_01]: and post Nazi recordings were at the forefront of global consciousness.
1:13:41
[SPEAKER_01]: In 1966, we thought saw three groups emerge that have enormous implications.
1:13:45
[SPEAKER_01]: The Secret Empire, a shadowy cabal manipulating political systems, reflecting pre-watergate mistrust in the United States government.
1:13:53
[SPEAKER_01]: The sons of the serpent, a white supremacist hate group paralleling the violent resistance to desegregation, and aim, or advanced idea mechanics, a science terror syndicate, debuting as the space race intensified fears about unchecked technological advancement.
1:14:08
[SPEAKER_01]: By 1974, the emergence of black specter, a domestic terror cell, and rocks on, a corrupt mega corporation, respectively, coincided with the Watergate's scandal and post Vietnam corporate cynicism.
1:14:21
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where we're out of my show right now, by the way, and all of this recession era villain stuff.
1:14:25
[SPEAKER_01]: The corporation was introduced in 1976, which weaponized capitalism and political corruption during America's economic stagflation crisis.
1:14:35
[SPEAKER_01]: In 1979, we meet the National Force, a Nazi-affiliated supremacist group, debuting amid renewed far-right movements and the Iran hostage crisis.
1:14:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember the Mutant Registration Act in 1981.
1:14:47
[SPEAKER_01]: We also saw that same era, the Project White Oake program.
1:14:51
[SPEAKER_01]: a government surveillance and control program targeting mutants eerily echoing Reagan era rhetoric on law and order and drawing fears of authoritarian overreach.
1:15:01
[SPEAKER_01]: In God Lobsman kills, we see William Strikers church waging a holy war against mutants through terrorism.
1:15:07
[SPEAKER_01]: A fundamentalist militia driven by apocalyptic beliefs, extremists reflecting someone who might bomb an abortion clinic, or take a gun to a gay church.
1:15:17
[SPEAKER_01]: The scourge of the underworld, a 1985 vigilante death squad group, emerged at a time of increasing concern over crime and the morality of extra judicial justice, and they're literally gunning down criminals without trial.
1:15:28
[SPEAKER_01]: The right in 1987, an anti-button paramilitary, covered in the smiling, re-economic spials on the green armor, and ultimatum, the underground liberated totally integrated mobile army to unite mankind in the mid-1980s,
1:15:43
[SPEAKER_01]: an Iraq no terrorist collective, and both of these groups reflected rising global fears of terrorism and ideological extremism, and then we meet around the same time the watchdogs, with their moral authoritarianism echoing America's rising religious right and censorship crusades.
1:15:59
[SPEAKER_01]: 1988 gives us the rivers, cybernetically enhanced mutant hunters embodying techno-paranoia and neo-fascism at the tail end of the Cold War.
1:16:08
[SPEAKER_01]: 1990, the mutant liberation front, a militant separatist group, debuting as the Berlin Wall fell, highlighting the global upheaval and radicalized youth movements.
1:16:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And the X forces the parallel for that group always, of course,
1:16:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Church of Humanity in 1990, a fanatical anti-mutant religious call to violently persecute mutants as demonic abominations, resembling real-world extremist hate groups that use religion to justify oppression.
1:16:32
[SPEAKER_01]: In 1992, we get the infamous Friends of Humanity, a pseudo-political anti-mutant hate group, reflecting the culture war backlash of the early 90s, paralleling rising white nationalistic rhetoric.
1:16:44
[SPEAKER_01]: The New World Order debuts in 1993,
1:16:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Emerging alongside widespread global conspiracy fears, following the Cold War, humanity's last stand in 1995 used deception and false flag attacks to demonize mutants, reflecting real-world paranoia following the Oklahoma City bombing.
1:17:03
[SPEAKER_01]: That same year, we meet gene-nation, remember, Marvel formed from traumatized underground survivors of the more locks, echoing societal reckoning with systemic neglect and urban decay.
1:17:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Operation Zero Tolerance in 1997, a government crackdown on mutant populations, paralleled increasing post-demestic terror legislation and fears of national surveillance.
1:17:24
[SPEAKER_01]: The purifiers in 2006, religiously motivated, embodying, organized hate, smarter, re-birth
1:17:33
[SPEAKER_01]: In 2008, we're jumping ahead just a little bit.
1:17:35
[SPEAKER_01]: We see Norman Osmore and literally take over the government as he launches hammer, a fully armed paramilitary force committing active crimes on United States' soil and fully sanctioned to do so.
1:17:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a really uncomfortable parallel for ice these days it feels like.
1:17:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And then finally, again, I'm skipping over a bunch.
1:17:52
[SPEAKER_01]: We have Orcas debuting in 2019 during a peak in real world nationalism and institutional backlash against progressive movements.
1:18:00
[SPEAKER_01]: who combined scientific authoritarianism and eugenic ambition and societal control and cultural control to preemptively annihilate the future of mutant kind.
1:18:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Together, these organizations, when you form a map this way and put them all in one place, it's kind of chilling.
1:18:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It represents cultural fear, extremism, political manipulation of power across six decades of moral storytelling,
1:18:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And frankly, the way we define terrorism really shows up here.
1:18:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is my kind of early thoughts on this before we begin our discussion.
1:18:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Pay attention to how evil is defined.
1:18:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Terrorist groups like Jean-Nation and the Brotherhood of people mutants commit crimes against innocence or structures to raise awareness for mutant causes.
1:18:38
[SPEAKER_01]: The murder is, of course, evil, but it's a very different kind of hate group evil that exists.
1:18:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of these hate groups are about secret groups of men doing secret things politically.
1:18:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Others are about hate directly, fascist white supremacism, that wants to target a specific population.
1:18:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Others are about government-controlled initiatives to keep the peace by silencing, quote, woke groups, again, Operation Zero Tolerance.
1:19:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the last category is the ones that are very ultra-Christian, using Jesus or God as the divine right for the terrorist groups to oppress others.
1:19:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Now realize what one quick thing, the gene nation and the brotherhood, they killed innocents, yes, but they did not seek to conquer the planet or build concentration camps, even the accolades and their moments of cruelty were seeking awareness for causes.
1:19:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But literally every other group ends up being pro-fascist, active oppression spaces, pro-Christian, often pro-conservativism and pro-white nationalism, while hoarding billions and building concentration camps.
1:19:35
[SPEAKER_01]: covering up things like pedophilia and money laundering.
1:19:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So literally all of these groups end in the same place which is concentration and internment camps.
1:19:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It's insane.
1:19:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So how do we define evil friends towards red and skull?
1:19:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So
1:19:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's jump to a Vazing Spider-Man, numbers 320 through 325.
1:19:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Staying behind the scenes, we see the Red Skull manipulating events around the world, weaponizing agents from Ultimatum and the Watch Dogs, while completing terrorist activities around the world.
1:20:03
[SPEAKER_01]: He orchestrates the assassination of the simcary and prime minister, Limka, at the hands of Saber Tooth, who shows up here.
1:20:09
[SPEAKER_01]: and begins manipulating events in the lives of superheroes and mercenaries, including Spider-Man, Captain America, Silver Sable, and Solo, the mercenary, all in an effort to drive the United States in Simcaria to war.
1:20:21
[SPEAKER_01]: When the Red School is finally exposed, is behind it all several dead in the skull, is ordering the destruction of the United States constitution, the burning of the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights, and he plans to frame both countries, a Simcaria and the United States for evil acts in other countries.
1:20:37
[SPEAKER_01]: The resulting wall would be so debititating, making it so much easier for me to work from within to destroy the United States.
1:20:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Red Skull tries bribing Spider-Man for $1 million to work for him.
1:20:48
[SPEAKER_01]: The hero refuses, and the Red Skull kind of easily abandons his plot.
1:20:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's because he's doing about 75 other evil things in this same era, while living in his Captain America Clone Body.
1:20:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me welcome my dear friend, Theodate Chase back to the show to talk about this crazy story.
1:21:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Theo, are you a Red Skull fan?
1:21:05
[SPEAKER_02]: He makes a good villain.
1:21:06
[SPEAKER_02]: You see a lot of people, especially X-Men fans who lament the fact that there aren't like straight up evil villains anymore.
1:21:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think the red skull will always the advantage of the red skull is that he will always occupy that space.
1:21:18
[SPEAKER_02]: He will always be the embodiment of evil.
1:21:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's the parallel for the red skull in the X-Men franchise?
1:21:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the red skull, they fight him directly too, but Magneto is not an apt comparison.
1:21:27
[SPEAKER_02]: No, because the red skull's whole thing even down to his origin is
1:21:31
[SPEAKER_02]: that he was meant to be just this embodiment of chaos like an evil like I think there's I mean if you want to talk about there's plenty of that argument never holds water with me because there's plenty of like anti mutant like bigoted like fascist villains of the extent fight they're just not the evil quote unquote evil mutant
1:21:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, uh, I feel like William striker, yeah, I've been on parallel or even bastion in his way.
1:21:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we almost had to create these like ultimate anti-mutant eagles and then veil it under patriotism or anti-national or anti, well, yeah, anti-woakness, I suppose, is the easiest way to phrase that in 2020, five.
1:22:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, before we get to Adam ourselves, let me hear your thoughts on the amazing Spider-Man story.
1:22:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I had you look into, uh, I'm assuming this is a story you had read before.
1:22:14
[SPEAKER_02]: It is, yeah, I've read, I read a lot of the 90s, like, like, fatherland spider-man when I was younger.
1:22:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Where everybody's eyes are bigger than their heads, and everybody, and, but it's all very dynamic and motion.
1:22:26
[SPEAKER_02]: This, this story is um, politically confusing.
1:22:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I think is the biggest thing because you have many, you have all these different lots and characters going on at the same time.
1:22:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Red skull is behind it all, but he's working with
1:22:39
[SPEAKER_02]: different organizations, including the watchdogs, of course, who you would expect.
1:22:43
[SPEAKER_02]: That's his right-wing fascist group.
1:22:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And but also ultimatum who are anarchists and the resistance appear, who are immune rights groups, like, like, you know, we didn't talk about the resistance.
1:22:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so, yeah, his existence is a group of mutants who have taken refuge in a city.
1:23:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Peepers is there, Mantalo is there.
1:23:03
[SPEAKER_01]: They are a fomenting protests against the government.
1:23:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's very parallel to groups like Actup who were protesting during the AIDS crisis in its odd way.
1:23:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But what the Red Skull has done here is he's taken groups that other people define as terrorists.
1:23:19
[SPEAKER_01]: and either hired certain people to dress as them because it turns people against everyone.
1:23:24
[SPEAKER_01]: He's done this in other stories with anarchists, even with like black panther derivatives.
1:23:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if I can take anything that Americans hate and then show them that those people are are equitable with Nazis that will make them hate those people even more.
1:23:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Does that parallel make sense?
1:23:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's not the same cause.
1:23:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Ultimatum is not Naziism.
1:23:42
[SPEAKER_01]: It's anarchy.
1:23:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the dissolution of borders.
1:23:44
[SPEAKER_01]: The resistance are not Nazis.
1:23:46
[SPEAKER_01]: They're anti-capitalism.
1:23:47
[SPEAKER_01]: They're anti-oppression.
1:23:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But they're still terrorists, the way that modern America would define them.
1:23:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So the red skulls putting his label on their cause to turn the cause against them.
1:23:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, direct parallels to 2025.
1:24:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's interesting timing for asking me to talk about this because my recent special interest has been the history of the U.S.
1:24:10
[SPEAKER_02]: intelligence apparatus.
1:24:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been reading a lot about like how Hoover just how like gig or Hoover described terrorism and like enemies and things like that to the United States.
1:24:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was.
1:24:20
[SPEAKER_02]: never really about the ideals.
1:24:22
[SPEAKER_02]: It was never about like what they specifically were calling for or acting for.
1:24:26
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just if they disrupted the status quo, they were the enemy.
1:24:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And like you have things in this book like part of why Captain Americans, Spider-Man, are both because they're trying to prove that the United States specifically the CIA didn't order the assassination of the
1:24:42
[SPEAKER_02]: of silver sails, uh, semiconductor, yeah, I can never save the name of that country.
1:24:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I've read it a million times.
1:24:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't care.
1:24:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, some care is prime minister is like the assassination of the simcary and prime minister is blamed on the CIA and they're like, oh, I can't be the CIA.
1:24:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Despite the fact that a set like assassinating leaders of independent countries is something known to be a thing that the CIA has
1:25:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, in some period rarely gets the primary focus in the books for any length of time, but there are long running stories even in the last couple of years where some carriers at war are making political deals and trying to survive on the borders.
1:25:16
[SPEAKER_01]: They recently got acquired by Latvia and then there's a bunch of like stories phomenting, like political disruption there.
1:25:22
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a country I get silver-sable is the connecting point, but this is a country that has a long history in comics as well.
1:25:28
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just I find the idea interesting that it's not about that this idea is terrorism is the evil regardless of what any of these one groups are fighting for like what they're calling for.
1:25:41
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't matter what the resistance or ultimatum are the lost dogs want even if they're encounter purposes because at the end of the day you can just slap the label of terrorism and that's makes them the bag.
1:25:52
[SPEAKER_02]: you get that a lot with that very black and white thinking with the character of solo who's basically the Punisher if the Punisher specifically targeted terrorists instead of like organized crime.
1:26:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, but also it was a lot more whiny.
1:26:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:26:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:26:08
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, these are really interesting when when you heard me kind of recounting the history of these terror groups at Marvel isn't it jarring to see them all in one place that way.
1:26:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's it's every it's every writer seems to pop up a new one so we just have all these countless groups and some run parallel and I think that some run parallel some are have similar goals some have.
1:26:29
[SPEAKER_02]: opposing goals, they're all just kind of there.
1:26:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that does parallel like real life.
1:26:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Anxiety is, too, is that people can't is that in real life, a lot of people can't seem to keep track of all these different groups and what they want.
1:26:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So they just it's easier to just say, this is all one thing.
1:26:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And especially with how Americans react to say middle Eastern groups, because they don't want to like, because that's such a complicated and complex area that people
1:26:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they didn't really know the difference between one group versus another and you get that comics as well with all these different like more fantastical like super groups, but yeah still well And always read through the lens of the superhero who along the way have to learn harsh lessons about what that means We see Spider-Man learning a lesson here, right?
1:27:16
[SPEAKER_01]: The big decision at the end of this is let's take the American tryhard who's definitely a hero.
1:27:22
[SPEAKER_01]: He he
1:27:23
[SPEAKER_01]: The way we define heroism is acts of sacrifice and acts of bravery, but the Red School basically saying, hey, I'll give you a million dollars, and the hero takes a minute to turn that idea down, right, which is what makes them a hero.
1:27:35
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's kind of a parallel to what we're all going through these days.
1:27:38
[SPEAKER_01]: What are we willing to take to keep us comfortable while ignoring the great eagles around us?
1:27:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Because had Spider-Man made that decision at the end, he would be playing along.
1:27:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So we draw the 2025 comparison, right?
1:27:50
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been a long time in comics where you can't really trust the person who says that they're good and noble unless they show you they're good and noble because there's always a red skull puff in a cigarette in the background, manipulating events.
1:28:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Look over there while I do this evil thing over here.
1:28:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And the weaponization of information too, right?
1:28:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I did this thing, but I told you they did it.
1:28:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So now you have to believe me and then give me money to do this other thing that I want to do, right?
1:28:12
[SPEAKER_02]: You brought up a good point earlier.
1:28:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I hadn't really considered, because I was really confused why there was a resistance member in this group, but I hadn't considered the possibility that Redskull was just trying to manipulate situations by having his minion stresses these different groups.
1:28:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, ultimatum is definitely there.
1:28:29
[SPEAKER_02]: like part of this, but like then you get the smaller groups that appear near the end like resistance where there's only like one member is carrying a gun rather than like using me in power so it's like is that actually a member of this group who's who's part of this there is red skull just trying to make it seem like it's all one thing.
1:28:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So with Theodate, how are you doing in 2025 America?
1:28:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's draw the modern implications here.
1:28:51
[SPEAKER_01]: We have all kinds of weaponization of news.
1:28:53
[SPEAKER_01]: We have paramilitary forces that are working for the government.
1:28:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So technically, we can't call them terrorists.
1:28:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But my word can we definitely call them terrorists.
1:29:02
[SPEAKER_01]: We're seeing internment camps.
1:29:03
[SPEAKER_01]: We're seeing the reduction of rights.
1:29:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything's on fire.
1:29:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It's crazy.
1:29:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel it's it's so stressful to basically watch people in power, implement decisions and changes that are going to be things are like great, great grandkids are going to be dealing with.
1:29:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, to this day, we're still dealing with things that we're done by people in power, like decades ago, and we're watching that happen again where it's going to be in a pill climb.
1:29:32
[SPEAKER_02]: to answer your question.
1:29:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, not doing great.
1:29:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that anybody is, but part of what you got to do at this time is to stick to your morals, stick to your like help those in your community, and that's definitely what I've been trying to do is be part of the groups that are heading in the right direction.
1:29:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you and I have known each other for a while now.
1:29:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I get to check in with you every few months.
1:29:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you are changing a lot of things and to do, to live boldly and to live joyfully in the face of this kind of oppression is an act of defiance.
1:30:03
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an act of joy every day that we choose to fight back.
1:30:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Making these little red school conversations has been so healing for me because it's helping me see things so clearly.
1:30:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Not to talk around it.
1:30:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been transitioning.
1:30:16
[SPEAKER_02]: living as more as a woman, as a queer woman publicly, and I picked definitely a time to do it.
1:30:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And part of it is just that I feel that I need to, you got to be yourself in, I mean, no, no, like I understand why people will feel the need to protect themselves.
1:30:36
[SPEAKER_02]: stay, stay more contained.
1:30:38
[SPEAKER_02]: But for me, I felt important that I had to be openly myself and when the rest of the world is saying that's not, this isn't the time to be that.
1:30:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I get this joy as a therapist.
1:30:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I get to walk people through transition over time and I'm not your therapist obviously.
1:30:54
[SPEAKER_01]: But
1:30:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Every time I see you, you're a little more yourself, which is such a beautiful thing to witness any time.
1:30:59
[SPEAKER_01]: As people learn how to love themselves, there's never been a more important time to live your truth and to speak your truth.
1:31:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So super fucking proud of you, just for living at this pace that you're living my friend.
1:31:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever speed that is, I am here as your friend and your ally, and I can't wait to hang out again on the main show very soon.
1:31:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Any concluding thoughts for today, there it is.
1:31:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, as far the story, um, I'd fun revisiting this.
1:31:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I haven't gone back and re-read in the 90s Spider-Man in a very, since I read it the first time.
1:31:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was a lot younger.
1:31:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's, it was a fun time.
1:31:28
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a fun time.
1:31:30
[SPEAKER_02]: The, a lot of dynamic art, a lot of interesting stories.
1:31:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I always enjoy seeing silver stable and things.
1:31:36
[SPEAKER_02]: She's a fun character.
1:31:37
[SPEAKER_02]: It's funny.
1:31:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I find characters like Paladin and solo endlessly exhausting both of them appear in this like the gun-toting mercenary guy.
1:31:44
[SPEAKER_02]: But then
1:31:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh yeah, she's awesome.
1:31:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Silver Seable can kick all of their asses.
1:31:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I really liked her with Nightcrawler.
1:31:52
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a story that's a conversation for it.
1:31:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.
1:31:54
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a fun story.
1:31:56
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, everybody.
1:31:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening.
1:31:57
[SPEAKER_01]: We will see you back here next time where my friend Phil Seabies gonna join me to talk about Red School versus Magneto.
1:32:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, that's a story that happened.