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Interview: Atul F. Kamath, MD · AHF Podcast

• 0:06
  Joseph M. Schwab: Today, my guest is Atul Kamath at the Cleveland clinic in Cleveland, Ohio.
• 0:12
  Joseph M. Schwab: He's a professor of orthopedic surgery.
• 0:14
  Joseph M. Schwab: He's been a friend of mine for a long time, and I'm very excited to have him on the AHF podcast.
• 0:21
  Joseph M. Schwab: Before we go any further, Atul, just tell everybody a little bit about yourself, your background, and your practice.
• 0:29
  Atul F. Kamath: Thanks, Joe, for having me today.
• 0:30
  Atul F. Kamath: I'm excited to have a little chat here.
• 0:32
  Atul F. Kamath: and, my, background, I'm, grew up in New York, and, New York City, then Long Island, and then did, most of my schooling on the East Coast.
• 0:43
  Atul F. Kamath: I went to Harvard, undergrad, Harvard Medical School, then some training in Philadelphia for general surgery and orthopedics at Penn.
• 0:52
  Atul F. Kamath: I then did a fellowship at Mayo Clinic, so a little bit of a foray into the Midwest there for me in Rochester, and then I spent a year, almost a year in Europe, doing the Mueller Hip Fellowship, in Europe, training on young hip reconstruction as yourself, and then also doing some other innovative things, one stage for infection, and really understanding the hip.
• 1:18
  Atul F. Kamath: And then orthopedics from a global perspective, from different perspectives.
• 1:22
  Atul F. Kamath: So that was an interesting time abroad.
• 1:25
  Atul F. Kamath: And then I went back to practice in Philadelphia at the University of Pennsylvania where I did my orthopedic training.
• 1:31
  Atul F. Kamath: I spent about five years there prior to coming to Cleveland, Ohio, and I've been here for about six years now.
• 1:39
  Atul F. Kamath: So that's a little bit of my background.
• 1:41
  Joseph M. Schwab: Primarily doing adult reconstruction.
• 1:44
  Joseph M. Schwab: and still doing hip preservation.
• 1:47
  Atul F. Kamath: Yeah, I would say probably about 25 percent of my practice is in the something related to hip preservation or joint preservation.
• 1:54
  Atul F. Kamath: That's hip arthroscopy, pelvic osteotomy, surgical dislocations, and then other things like AVN management or cartilage treatments around the hip, primarily it, but also some around the knee, including some osteotomies around the knee as well.
• 2:08
  Atul F. Kamath: So
• 2:09
  Joseph M. Schwab: So when did you get it first involved with the anterior hip foundation
• 2:14
  Atul F. Kamath: This is going back several years now I think in the inaugural, kind of groups, that you were part of, so now we're going back probably.
• 2:24
  Atul F. Kamath: 2017, where some of the discussions were, Hey, should we get a group together that focuses around, anterior hip surgery, but just hip surgery in general?
• 2:33
  Atul F. Kamath: And how do we understand that push innovation, explore boundaries of anterior hip surgery?
• 2:39
  Atul F. Kamath: And as when, looking back, even five or seven years, anterior hip surgery.
• 2:44
  Atul F. Kamath: didn't have that momentum it really has now.
• 2:47
  Atul F. Kamath: It was starting to gather a lot of steam, but so this was a little bit in, I would say, the earlier days of the Anterior Hip Foundation, and then also a collective that, of course, a lot of the founding members had put together.
• 3:02
  Joseph M. Schwab: and you were teaching, anterior approach courses at the time, right?
• 3:06
  Atul F. Kamath: Yes.
• 3:06
  Atul F. Kamath: Yes.
• 3:07
  Atul F. Kamath: So I think, a lot of us, some of us met through some of these courses that we were teaching some of them through projects or research or trying to look at the hip and, from the anterior approach side, I had taught courses that were traditional joint replacement courses, but I was also involved in other things like hip arthroscopy or young hip surgery.
• 3:27
  Atul F. Kamath: And for me, it was looking along that spectrum, that continuum of, can we just not just talk about anterior hip from the joint replacement aspect, but really the anatomy is the same, pelvic osteotomy, as is just more of an extension of an anterior based approach to the hip.
• 3:43
  Atul F. Kamath: So a lot of the teaching, a lot of the fundamentals, a lot of the anatomy, and then also the same, in, terms of the initial crew that was developing this organization, really had that kind of broader focus of not just hip replacement, let's, think about it broadly.
• 3:58
  Joseph M. Schwab: Yeah.
• 3:58
  Joseph M. Schwab: And it's, you alluded to this, the last decade or two has really seen a tremendous growth in the field of hip surgery, anterior approach, hip preserving surgery, in that evolution that you've seen.
• 4:12
  Joseph M. Schwab: is there anything that you would want to impart maybe to younger surgeons or is there any lessons that you've learned from it that you would want to share?
• 4:20
  Atul F. Kamath: Yeah, I think it's, we're going back to the anatomy, right?
• 4:23
  Atul F. Kamath: So I think as a comprehensive hip surgeon or just orthopedic surgeon in general, it's always good to go back to the fundamentals of the anatomy.
• 4:31
  Atul F. Kamath: I think it's, whatever your training bias is or what your exposure to say, for example, in my residency, we did a lot of posterior approaches to the hip.
• 4:38
  Atul F. Kamath: We did some anterolateral approaches.
• 4:41
  Atul F. Kamath: I saw a few, now this is going back some time, some MIS2 incision approaches.
• 4:45
  Atul F. Kamath: I saw very little anterior approach, but I was always fascinated that.
• 4:48
  Atul F. Kamath: Hey, we should probably, as hip surgeons or, joint replacement surgeons, we should start understanding the hip from multiple facets.
• 4:56
  Atul F. Kamath: So for a surgeon just out in training or in training, or, I think it's, whereas your workhorse approach may be a posterior approach or workhorse approach, maybe something else, you should probably, delve into the anatomy, learn the fundamentals, even go to a course or two just to explore the anterior approach from the anterior approach perspective.
• 5:17
  Atul F. Kamath: And then that, I think, makes you a better or more comprehensive hip surgeon in general.
• 5:22
  Atul F. Kamath: and then again, there's things like revision surgery, anatomy, other things that I think we can expand upon, as we grow in our learning curve on just in surgery and orthopedics in general.
• 5:32
  Atul F. Kamath: I think the fundamentals for the young surgeon, just keep an open mind, think creatively, think differently, and then just expose yourself out there.
• 5:39
  Atul F. Kamath: to different philosophies or techniques.
• 5:41
  Atul F. Kamath: I think it's I think that's probably the best advice I could give.
• 5:45
  Joseph M. Schwab: What was it in your educational journey and your, in your medical training and your orthopedic training that sort of drew you towards the hip?
• 5:52
  Joseph M. Schwab: And I recognize you do knee replacements as well, but certainly you've done that whole extra year, focusing on the hip as an area of specialty.
• 6:01
  Joseph M. Schwab: What was it that, drew your interest there?
• 6:04
  Atul F. Kamath: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 6:05
  Atul F. Kamath: I think, in orthopedics, you go through different rotations, you do some pediatrics, you do oncology.
• 6:10
  Atul F. Kamath: I, it's a little bit of a combination.
• 6:12
  Atul F. Kamath: I love the craftsmanship associated with joint replacement surgery.
• 6:16
  Atul F. Kamath: I liked, taking a problem and finding out the result, within 30 40 an hour, whatever it is, minutes.
• 6:24
  Atul F. Kamath: you know what the end product is in sort of your craftsmanship, at least, from the 30, 000 foot view.
• 6:29
  Atul F. Kamath: And obviously we follow up, we measure our outcomes in decades, not, two months or three months.
• 6:35
  Atul F. Kamath: But I think as craftsmen, we get a sense of you've made an immediate difference in that patient's life.
• 6:40
  Atul F. Kamath: And pretty quickly, during the case, you say, okay, we, this is a nice product that I'm fashioning here.
• 6:45
  Atul F. Kamath: So I, really gravitated towards the reconstruction part of orthopedics, and that, tended to fall within hip and knee replacement and knee surgery.
• 6:54
  Atul F. Kamath: Now, I think it's also fortunate.
• 6:55
  Atul F. Kamath: I met a lot of mentors and then also folks that were close to my training that I said, yeah, this is neat.
• 7:02
  Atul F. Kamath: I want to be like them or they have just a great way of looking at the world.
• 7:07
  Atul F. Kamath: and so you meet mentors that kind of, you get learned from, but then also want to fashion, maybe your career upon, In terms of the young hip world, actually, I think, as going back, we're, not that old, but in terms of our careers, things like hip arthroscopy, if you look at 10 or 15 years ago, was vastly different than it is today, right?
• 7:28
  Atul F. Kamath: So I, do remember in training very skilled surgeons, we would, I would be a mid level or senior resident and a very skilled surgeon was learning or developing their caseload for hip arthroscopy.
• 7:43
  Atul F. Kamath: and it would take a couple of hours, to do things, just in terms of safely accessing the joint, doing repairs, doing other, shaping around the hip.
• 7:53
  Atul F. Kamath: I, do think as techniques, as implants, as other instrumentation has changed, and our understanding and discipline has changed, volume over time.
• 8:01
  Atul F. Kamath: Some of these things can take less amount of time.
• 8:04
  Atul F. Kamath: I think we can do more sophisticated procedures.
• 8:06
  Atul F. Kamath: something like a labral reconstruction was inconceivable to me maybe 10 or 15 years ago just as a trainee but now it's something that we can do technically, in the right hand with the right volume.
• 8:18
  Atul F. Kamath: so, for me, it was something where I got a very little bit of a taste to, hip arthroscopy or impingement, I did see a little bit of osteotomy work and some cartilage work.
• 8:28
  Atul F. Kamath: but really it was, I think, that sparked my interest and said, you know what, I, this is, I like the reconstruction part of it.
• 8:35
  Atul F. Kamath: I like the anatomy, this whole emerging field of young hip surgery and hip preservation, at least in the U.
• 8:40
  Atul F. Kamath: S., was more of an emerging field at that time.
• 8:44
  Atul F. Kamath: and that was, when I went to Mayo Clinic, I really, there was two major mentors and examples for me there.
• 8:50
  Atul F. Kamath: Robert Trousdale Rafael Sierra, those two were living and breathing the, for this continuum or spectrum of hip surgery from young hip surgery to joint replacement, primary joint replacement up to revision surgery.
• 9:04
  Atul F. Kamath: So I really saw that whole spectrum and they were doing it consistently, weekly, in and out, but they really had that.
• 9:09
  Atul F. Kamath: I brought the caseload, that expertise that I said, this can be done in practice.
• 9:14
  Atul F. Kamath: And this is really, the cutting edge of the hip preservation world, both technically as well as clinically, and then also obviously academically as well.
• 9:23
  Atul F. Kamath: And that, was a little bit, I said, listen, I'm going to really jump into this.
• 9:26
  Atul F. Kamath: It's fascinating.
• 9:27
  Atul F. Kamath: It's an emerging field.
• 9:29
  Atul F. Kamath: There's lots to learn about it.
• 9:31
  Atul F. Kamath: And that's where applying and then doing the Mueller Reconstruction Fellowship in Europe was a stepping stone to say, listen, I got a taste of it in residency.
• 9:39
  Atul F. Kamath: I got a full exposure during fellowship, but to really do this in practice, as it's there's some technically demanding aspects of it.
• 9:47
  Atul F. Kamath: And I do feel like you have to immerse yourself, whether it's mentors early in your practice.
• 9:52
  Atul F. Kamath: Or doing an additional fellowship type training or additional cadaver labs.
• 9:57
  Atul F. Kamath: And that's where I said, listen, I'm going to spend some time additionally after a first fellowship to do a little bit more training.
• 10:03
  Atul F. Kamath: and really at the cradle, as as you're doing right now and have been doing for many years, really.
• 10:09
  Atul F. Kamath: Being in touch with the, font really of the young hip world in Europe, and then Switzerland.
• 10:15
  Atul F. Kamath: for me, it's, a lifelong journey, but that interest was sparked for hip early on.
• 10:21
  Atul F. Kamath: And I think then I just, it snowballed from there.
• 10:23
  Joseph M. Schwab: Yeah, I'll echo the influence that Rob Trousdale and Raphael Sierra have.
• 10:30
  Joseph M. Schwab: I think many of us in the hip preserving, surgery realm, owe a debt of gratitude to a lot of the work that they've done and a lot of the research that they've put out that has helped.
• 10:41
  Joseph M. Schwab: solidify this area.
• 10:43
  Joseph M. Schwab: moving on a little bit more towards, your new role with the anterior hip foundation.
• 10:48
  Joseph M. Schwab: The AHF is lucky to have you come on this year as one of the primary officers as the treasurer.
• 10:55
  Joseph M. Schwab: And so tell me a little bit about your role.
• 10:57
  Joseph M. Schwab: What is the role of the treasurer for the AHF?
• 11:00
  Atul F. Kamath: Yeah.
• 11:01
  Atul F. Kamath: It's exciting, to be back in a leadership capacity with AHF.
• 11:05
  Atul F. Kamath: I think it's a dynamic organization.
• 11:07
  Atul F. Kamath: Obviously it's grown tremendously.
• 11:09
  Atul F. Kamath: I'm excited for your leadership in the next year or so, year plus.
• 11:13
  Atul F. Kamath: so it's, really nice to see this development, and the organizational roles that have been founded.
• 11:21
  Atul F. Kamath: the treasurer role is really a liaison with industry.
• 11:25
  Atul F. Kamath: there are the financial aspects of it, the bookkeeping aspects, the, fortunately, the AHF is a very healthy organization at this point in time, both.
• 11:34
  Atul F. Kamath: membership wise as well as organizational and conference wise, but also financially wise.
• 11:40
  Atul F. Kamath: I think it's really in a good spot right now.
• 11:42
  Atul F. Kamath: So there's the financial piece and the kind of the day to day books and other or other aspects of being a treasurer as part of the organization.
• 11:50
  Atul F. Kamath: But what also really excites me, is really diving in and learning from industry, really being a liaison to them.
• 11:57
  Atul F. Kamath: See how, They can showcase their products, but also push us as surgeons to say, listen, think about the, hip surgery or anterior approach from a different light, or, hey, there's new products or innovation.
• 12:08
  Atul F. Kamath: And then, in the other aspect, if there are great ideas from our organizational members.
• 12:13
  Atul F. Kamath: we take that and can work with industry more closely, to develop, to push the boundaries, to think about hip surgery, not three or five years from now, maybe 10 years from now as well.
• 12:23
  Atul F. Kamath: So I think that's a huge and exciting role, to really be, right at the cutting edge of technology and innovation, but really working with our industry partners, and then allowing them to showcase their products and talents and other things that are.
• 12:38
  Atul F. Kamath: Annual meeting coming up, but in a little bit, but then also throughout the year with different events and then ways to touch points with our membership as well.
• 12:46
  Atul F. Kamath: So I'm really excited for that piece of the role as well.
• 12:50
  Atul F. Kamath: I do have a background.
• 12:51
  Atul F. Kamath: I have an MBA.
• 12:51
  Atul F. Kamath: in terms of some of the financial stuff and the organizational leadership type things, I hope to lend a little bit of that expertise to the overall synergy of the group.
• 13:00
  Atul F. Kamath: but again, also my, interfacing with industry has been long, long term, a decade plus in terms of working with companies that are very big, working with companies that are small, companies that are, just starting up as well.
• 13:12
  Atul F. Kamath: So they're, even in their infancy.
• 13:15
  Atul F. Kamath: so really along that spectrum, and I think the AHF really tries to give a voice to the big companies that are players and have done really big things with industry.
• 13:24
  Atul F. Kamath: And then also some of the smaller companies that.
• 13:26
  Atul F. Kamath: May have technologies that are blooming or merging, or have a very niche product that I think needs a voice as well.
• 13:32
  Atul F. Kamath: So it's really an opportunity to see that balance across the industry.
• 13:36
  Atul F. Kamath: it's really also a nice balance to leverage some of my relationships over time and then our collective relationships to the AHF and then some of the skill sets that I have in terms of being this treasurer role now.
• 13:47
  Atul F. Kamath: So I, I'm really looking forward to it.
• 13:49
  Joseph M. Schwab: When you're looking with your AHF lens at, what makes a good industry partner and what makes a good relationship between the AHF and an industry partner, what are the things that are most important to you?
• 14:02
  Joseph M. Schwab: What are you looking for?
• 14:03
  Joseph M. Schwab: both in terms of what the, partner can bring to the Anterior Hip Foundation and what the AHF can bring to that partner.
• 14:11
  Atul F. Kamath: Yeah, I think that's a, great question.
• 14:13
  Atul F. Kamath: I, certainly it is a community of learning and development.
• 14:17
  Atul F. Kamath: so that industry partner again, whether big or small, or having a product that's been on the market for 10 years, or product that's just emerging or pre market, it really, I think, has to go through the lens of how does this helping our community, education wise.
• 14:32
  Atul F. Kamath: from looking at the hip from a different angle, so to speak, or, our trainees, and then also things like research, are there ways to analyze the techniques that we're doing?
• 14:42
  Atul F. Kamath: How do we understand them better?
• 14:44
  Atul F. Kamath: So I think really, if it's a partnership truly between industry, that industry partner, really has to allow us tools to explore those different avenues.
• 14:54
  Atul F. Kamath: to really push the boundaries of what we're looking at, of course, is great ways for industry to partner in terms of some of the financial aspects, right?
• 15:01
  Atul F. Kamath: We are an organization that needs funding for things like educational labs or fellowships for traveling surgeons, both abroad and domestic.
• 15:10
  Atul F. Kamath: so these are things that, I think financially, of course, industry can help support us that way, but it's really that energy and relationship.
• 15:19
  Atul F. Kamath: And willingness to partner in different avenues to really explore our mission statements or our core mission pillars of education, teaching, innovation, camaraderie and community.
• 15:29
  Atul F. Kamath: I think those are ways that I think industry and again, you don't have to be a multibillion dollar company.
• 15:34
  Atul F. Kamath: There are relationships that can be built at the ground level for smaller companies as well.
• 15:38
  Atul F. Kamath: And I think it's an exciting part every year to see the new companies that are out there.
• 15:42
  Atul F. Kamath: and they have everything offered that the big companies have as well.
• 15:45
  Atul F. Kamath: So it's not simply monetarily, but it's really also the relationships that we're trying to build as well.
• 15:52
  Joseph M. Schwab: I for one am really looking forward to seeing what you do with our industry partnerships for this next year and going into the 2025 meeting.
• 16:00
  Joseph M. Schwab: I'm really excited to be working with you on the AHF and I'm really happy that you were able to take a little bit of time to talk with me today.
• 16:06
  Joseph M. Schwab: Thanks Atul.
• 16:08
  Atul F. Kamath: Joe.
• 16:08
  Atul F. Kamath: Thanks a lot I'm looking forward to all the work we're going to do together and I would encourage everyone to attend our meeting and really looking forward to the industry relationships We're going to build over the next year plus.
• 16:19
  Joseph M. Schwab: thank you for joining me for another episode of the AHF podcast.
• 16:23
  Joseph M. Schwab: If you want more information, you can check us out on Facebook, LinkedIn, or X, or you can visit us at our website, anteriorhipfoundation.
• 16:33
  Joseph M. Schwab: com.