Latest / Two Personal with Joy Taylor / Joy Taylor Gets Real with Les Alfred ABOUT Peace, Pressure & Purpose

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Joy Taylor Gets Real with Les Alfred ABOUT Peace, Pressure & Purpose · Two Personal with Joy Taylor

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I've had to get really strict with myself and be like, okay, girl,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: you just spent the past hour scrolling and you're saying
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: that's work, but is it really all right?
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: I'm so excited our very first guests for season three,
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Les Alfred, thanks so much for joining us.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having me Joyce.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: She is a media entrepreneur, a cultural storyteller, and she
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: hosts the weekly podcast She's so lucky. I've been following
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: you for a while and you also had my my
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: dear friend Taylor Rooks on your show as well. And
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: I love your contents, I love going I really actually
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: like your threads. If you don't follow, you don't follow.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: That's up there. I'm like, I feel like I get
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: to know you through your threads, my real thoughts. Yeah,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: it's a very vulnerable space. You know. Threads has become
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: really really fun. I'm so grateful that threads is having
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: this emergence because I didn't miss original Twitter, particularly black Twitter,
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: and when Elon killed it, he killed Twitter good and solid,
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: I was like, man, I miss being able to like,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: do do that, do what you do on threads.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: Just get those thoughts out.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Do you find it like therapeutic.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: Sometimes, but.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: I I just want to get stuff out of my
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: head and I sometimes don't want people to respond to it,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Like I don't want everything to be a conversation and
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: a back and forth and people poking and tell me more.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I don't want to. I just I
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: said this, and that's it. I've moved on.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. The bots haven't fully infiltrated yet, which
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: is nice. I do get a lot of well this
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  Speaker 2: past week, people have not been very happy with me
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: on threads. But why well, you know I'm going I'm
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: coming for the Christians right now. I'm coming for the
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Christians week. It's a holy week, and that there the
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: set is, the set is not operating very well. I
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: was born and raised in a Baptist church, so I
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: have really deep trauma and thoughts and I'm thoroughly educated
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: on the church process. And when I say that, I
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: mean minimum of three days a week, sometimes seven days
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: a week of some sort of church activity. So I
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  Speaker 2: was immersed in that experience and I just think that
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  Speaker 2: they're not doing well right now. Black Christians, White Christians, Catholics,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: the fake Christians, the trap wive Christians, like they need
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: to get organized. Yeah, so they're not happy with me
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: right now, But I really wanted to talk to you
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: speaking of all of that, like how are you managing
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: just not getting overwhelmed? Because we're all getting inundated with
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: this constant bad news all day all day. It's actually
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: kind of hard to find good news. And because the
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: bad news is so bad, the good news doesn't really
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: even bring me any comfort anymore. So how are you
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  Speaker 2: handling all that?
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  Speaker 3: It's hard?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I think I try to toe the line
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  Speaker 1: between making sure that I'm well informed but also focusing
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: on what I can control, and it's a dance, and
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: some days it's it's better than others. Some days then
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I do just go down the doom spiral of all
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  Speaker 1: of the bad news.
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  Speaker 3: Because how can you not right?
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  Speaker 1: And then there's other days where I'm like, Okay, I
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: know enough, let me focus on what I've got in
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  Speaker 1: front of me, what I can control, helping the people
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: that I can help, and that's the best that I
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: can do. And it's a constant kind of dance between
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: the two.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Where do you find peace? I know I get asked
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: that a lot, like how do you get how do
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: you find balance? Like, girl, none of us have balanced right,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: but I take naps like I am a shut my
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  Speaker 2: brain off person. Like if I get overwhelmed, I'm like,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: all right, it's just this feels like a good time
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: to not be on earth. But how do you find
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: not your balance? How do you find your peace?
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  Speaker 1: I think I'm a pretty peaceful person naturally. I do
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  Speaker 1: think it is more so in my personality to be
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  Speaker 1: relatively centered. Like I wouldn't say that I'm necessarily a
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  Speaker 1: very combative or confrontational person. I'm also not somebody who
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: easily gets worked up. Once I'm worked up, I'm worked up,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: but it takes a lot to get me there. And
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  Speaker 1: so because I naturally kind of know my center, I
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  Speaker 1: have my little practices that keep me in it. I'm
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: a big fitness girl, meditation girl, journaling girl. Like those
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  Speaker 1: things kind of keep me in that center that I
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  Speaker 1: usually stay in.
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  Speaker 2: Do you have a lot of hope right now?
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  Speaker 3: Not really?
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  Speaker 2: I mean I don't, so it's I'm not it's not
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  Speaker 2: meant to be like a I guess a judge question
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  Speaker 2: because I do not, and I'm desperately clawing for it.
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  Speaker 1: But no, I mean, do I think that life will
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  Speaker 1: go on, Yes, do I think that there has been
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  Speaker 1: a lot of damage done and it's going to take
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  Speaker 1: a lot of work to get to like a positive
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  Speaker 1: place collectively.
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  Speaker 2: Also, yes, what's the biggest I mean, it's hard to choose.
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  Speaker 2: There's so many, so many options, But what's been the
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  Speaker 2: biggest shock for you? Because I think the bigger shocked
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  Speaker 2: for me, and it has been very difficult to shock me.
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  Speaker 2: But again, I think it's the collective, not the collective
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  Speaker 2: that's not true. I think it's the lack of like
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  Speaker 2: reaction to the people that are being most affected by it,
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  Speaker 2: Like we are really desensitized.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think everybody is kind of not at this point.
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  Speaker 1: As a coping mechanism. I think maybe what's most shocking
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  Speaker 1: for me though, is like feeling like collective intelligence is
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  Speaker 1: moving in the wrong direction in terms of like literacy,
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  Speaker 1: media literacy, just overall, like cognitive ability does not seem
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  Speaker 1: to be moving in the right direction. And I think
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  Speaker 1: that's what's the scariest of all. Like, I think in
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: order to move forward in a good direction, it requiress
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  Speaker 1: most of us to be sharp and feeling like ooh,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of people are not sharp, right,
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  Speaker 1: now and they're not getting sharper and actually the goal
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: of what's happening is to make people less sharp.
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  Speaker 3: Is what is really scary?
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  Speaker 2: Do you feel? Because I mean, I feel like I'm
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: at an advantage being a black woman because we've had
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: to be excellent for so long that. Yeah, the the
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: dummy part is not it's not applicable, and they're they're
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: they're not really coming for us. Right now, we're gonna
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: get a little bit of a break in that regard. Yeah,
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: I feel like, in a weird way, I feel positions well,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: like as a collective society, we're probably all doomed, but
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: like I've had we have had to be so far
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  Speaker 2: ahead for so long that as all those things like
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: reading and and and you know, business and financial literacy,
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  Speaker 2: like those things are not an option for us to
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  Speaker 2: not figure out and be great at. So I kind
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: of feel like in an advance avantageous position.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, as well as just pattern recognition of
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: knowing when the shit's going to hit the fan and
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: how to cope with that, that's in our DNA.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I asked my therapist because I just
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: my algorithm is destroyed. It's just it's just an insane place,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: and I it's hard for me to just disconnect, Like
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm like clinging to the last threat of empathy
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  Speaker 2: that I have in my body because I just feel
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: like so many people just do not act in their
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: own interests and they're overwhelmed by this group think and
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: it's just so frustrating. And I'm talking to you about it,
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  Speaker 2: and she was like, you need to take a break.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Like but I was like, but why are we not?
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  Speaker 2: And she was like, because this isn't about black women,
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  Speaker 2: this is not our fight, and we organize this so
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: we're not Like did you just see the viral vide
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  Speaker 2: of the grandmother who was or I don't know if
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: she was a grandmother, but like the older white woman
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: who was who was doing the interview, Oh yeah, at
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  Speaker 2: the protest at the NOKIS protests. And he was like,
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  Speaker 2: there's no diversity, and she was like, this is not
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  Speaker 2: about black people.
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  Speaker 1: They get That was not the answered. He had nothing
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  Speaker 1: to say.
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  Speaker 2: He could not that thought could not even have ever
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  Speaker 2: percolated in his smooth brain that this was not about
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  Speaker 2: us and other people are going to do this fight.
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  Speaker 2: But it really did give me. It gave me a
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  Speaker 2: lot of peace when she said that, like, this is
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  Speaker 2: just not about us.
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  Speaker 3: Somebody gets it. Yeah she does. I mean I can't
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  Speaker 3: speak for anybody else.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Are you a therapy girl?
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: I go in and out. Yeah, I'd been in therapy
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  Speaker 3: for the past couple of years.
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  Speaker 1: I'm actually currently on a break from therapy because me
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: and my therapist just kind of decided that I was
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: like a good in a good spot and the things
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: that we really wanted to work through when I started,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: we kind of got to a good place to So
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: I'm in a little bit of a break.
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  Speaker 3: Right now, but it's it's good. I've had my moments.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I go through the therapy breaks. I'm not on
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: a therapy break right now, but I actually have therapy
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: later today. But uh I did. I I think sometimes
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: with therapy you reach sort of a plateau where and
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: I always know that I've reached that one. I'm like,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: what am I going to talk to her about this week?
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Like I don't really feel like rehashing my childhood this week.
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  Speaker 2: I'm doing okay. Yeah, so like, let's let's take a break.
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  Speaker 2: Let's let's go make some more mistakes, ever some material.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, come back to you in a few months.
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  Speaker 2: See what else we need to to revisit. Yeah, it's
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: it is like an ongoing, an ongoing process. So I'm
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: gonna pry. I don't know if you're gonna give me
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: the answer or not. But I saw that you said
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: you have some lofty goals for yourself. I do. I
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: love this. I'm gonna steal this from you. Actually, so
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: also follow her on TikTok. But your posts about earning
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: your screen time, yes, so helpful. I'm gonna tell you.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: I watched it and I was like, you know what,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: should let me pick up my book? Hayley gave me
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: the the what is it? What is it called a
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Court of Thorns and Roses? I've joined. I've joined the cult.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm in for a ride minute now.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I usually read like really horrific history books, nonfiction,
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  Speaker 2: so I'm like, I gotta try.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: I know, I know, I know punishment, I know, I know.
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  Speaker 2: I know. I'm a glutton. So I was like, I
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: need to just take a break. So I'm gonna I
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: don't usually read fiction, but I'm going to do that.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: But I literally watched the video and I was like,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: you know, she's right, let me. I don't. I'm gonna
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: watch this video like and then I'm gonna put this
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: down and read my book because I do like to read.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: But the reason I bring that video up is because
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: you said you have some really big aspirations for yourself.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Are they private aspirations? Are you sharing them?
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I can share them a bit, and part of it
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  Speaker 1: they're a little bit abstract, so they're not super concrete,
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  Speaker 1: like I know a lot of us are raised to set,
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: you know, smart goals where it's like specific, measurable. Not
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: really that, but it's more so moving in the direction
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: that I want to be in. But I feel like
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six I have been on this or
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: had a bit of a personal reckoning where I'm like, yeah,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: I've worked really hard to get to a certain point,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: and I actually don't think that I've worked towards the
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: right thing. I've been so heavily in like the influencer space,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: and even as a podcaster my show, I think a
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: lot of people would still consider it as more of
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: like an influencer show as opposed to a media platform
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: and realizing that that's actually not what I want to
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: be doing and where I want to be, and I'm
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: kind of in a point of like not burning it
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: all down. I mean I would love to burn it
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: all down, but metaphorically burning it all down to kind
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: of rebuild to my future state where I would like
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: to be less of an influencer and more of an
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: actual media personality.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: I want to be an author.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: I want to have a media company that does not
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: revolve around what I'm posting on Instagram, and it just
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: requires a lot of un packing habits within myself, also
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: unpacking habits within how the audience expects me to be,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: and building a new team that really understands my full vision.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: And it just requires a lot of focus. So I'm
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: trying to be really protective of that focus right now.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's well, congrats. First of all, that's that's a
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: big revelation, and I feel like I'm going through something
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: a little bit similar and in like a completely new chapter.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: And it does require a lot of focus, which is
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: why I love that you posted that. Because our brains
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: are so short. Now, Like I find my attention span
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, no, I want a need to do this,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: Like I need to pour my energy into this, and
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: then I'm just like, oh, it's a butterfly. Like, I'm
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: so distracted, and it's because our brains are now becoming
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: condition to that. But it's like, how do you do
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: that when when your business now is being on those
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: platforms that are scientifically designed by geniuses to keep you
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: in that cycle.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: I mean I've had to get really strict with myself
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: and be like, okay, girl, you just spent the past
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: hour scrolling and you're saying that's work, but is it really?
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Is that actually doing something that's helping to build your business?
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Is that actually doing something that's helping your audience that's
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: making you money or are you just zoning out watching tiktoks?
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: And sometimes it's okay to do that, but not like
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: all day.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: And I've had to get a little bit more strict
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: with myself about what's actually moving me forward and what's
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: keeping me distracted.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do that too, because I'm like, oh no,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: this is I need to get ideas. I don't get ideas,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: but I'm not I get I get recipes. I was
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: just about to say that save a recipe. Yeah, save
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: the little salmon recipe I'm gonna try tonight. But yeah,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: it is. It's a It requires a lot of discipline,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: and I think relearning discipline is important too. That's something
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: that I'm really trying to focus on. It was my
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: word for for last year and this year, I'm really
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: trying to be more creative because I've I've felt that
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: muscle go very dormant in me. And I also think
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: that social media has played a big role in that
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: as well, because rather than like actually doing it myself,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: I'm watching other people do it, and it like really
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: requires something more of you. What's what's the thing, what's
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: the thing that you're like, what's the next step?
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: I think the next step, at least for me Right now,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: I'm focusing a lot on writing, So doing a lot
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: more writing. I have such a love hate relationship with
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: the book The Artists Way. Have you ever done The
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Artist's Way?
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Girl?
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Everybody's done it. I've never made it through. I'm doing
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: it again. I'm trying to make it through, but at
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: least doing my morning pages each day to do actual writing,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: taking creative writing classes because I really want to get
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: a book deal. Like I would really love to be
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: an author within the next couple of years. So I
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: would love to get a book deal within the next
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: year and start focusing more on writing, doing more substack,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: like actually getting in the reps for that particular skill
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: and restrengthening it because I used to be a good
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: writer when I was younger, and then I got on
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: social media and my brain rotted.
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: So I'm trying to get that back.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: So that's been like my number one focus is building
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: up my writing muscle.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: What kind of book would you like to write?
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: For my first book, I will probably do some sort
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: of self help because I feel like I can get
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: a book deal easier with that and it's a natural
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: segue from the podcast.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but in the future, I would love to write.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Fiction, and that's going to be the bigger challenge because
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to do that. But I love
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: reading fiction and it makes me so happy and like,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: I love the idea of doing it, and I have
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: stories that swim in my head, but I'm like, Okay,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: I got to learn how to get them on the paper.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: So but that's for like a later I don't know.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: I feel like in my forties is when I'm really
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: going to be in like my fiction era forties.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I'm on the cusp of forty yeah. Same, yeah, but
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to forty. I had an amazing thirties.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Definitely some ups and downs, but I feel very much
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: like a very present person. I'm always planning for the
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: future and it's always kind of there. But I think
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: being present really helps you one set goals, but to
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: just really feel like enjoy the experience of what you've
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: worked for, Like you've built things, you've had experiences, you've
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: had disappointments, you've had triumphs, and if you're constantly like
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: living in a different space other than the present, you
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: really don't ever get to enjoy those things exactly.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that there's a balance of it too,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: and some of my thought processes might be a little
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: more like toxic than people may think. I actually don't
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: think it's bad to move the goalposts and to have
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: something that you're working towards, because at least I know
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: for me, like that drives me. I like having challenges
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: and I like rising to the occasion.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: But you can't.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: You have to be able to rise to the occasion
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: when it calls for it and enjoy where you're at
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: and have some sort of harmony.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: Between the two.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: But I also don't think that it's a bad thing
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: to want to keep race in the bar and to
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: see what else you have in the tank.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: What's been the moment that you've been really, like the
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: most proud of.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: Ooh.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: I think being self employed and like turning what I've
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: been doing into an actual business that sustains me and
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: sustains the team.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: It's probably the thing I'm most proud of, especially.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Because I didn't I didn't really have help with that,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Like I didn't have a mentor. I didn't My family's
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: not subsidizing my life. I don't have a partner subsidizing
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: my life. Like it's vision and leadership that comes from me.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: And also I do get to work with great people
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: around me who help with that. But it's been me
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: and this noggin working stuff out, and even though I'm
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: so far from where I want to be, the fact
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: that I've even gotten to this point is something I'm
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: really proud to know.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: It's an incredible accomplishment and it's good that you feel
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: pride in that. Sometimes I'm around people in the business
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: and they're like, well, like, I don't, Hugh, I don't
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: like that, like you did something Like it's not arrogance
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: to say like, I worked hard and I did this,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: and I appreciate the work that I put into it.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: I appreciate the people that I work with m HM
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: that they believe in me. But like I figured it
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: out and I'm proud of That's what's been the most disappointing.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: I think it's been a long road for me.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: I've never had any one moment where it was like
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: something really popped off, or that it was really quick,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: or that it felt like I've made it. Like it
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: still feels like every day is such a climb, and really,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: do I feel like you've made it? No, not at all,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: my god, And so I still feel like sometimes I'm
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: still there's still sometimes where I feel like I haven't
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: made any progress from where I was at ten years ago.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: And I know that's not true, but sometimes it feels
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: like it. And that's what's most frustrating. It's like, damn,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: why do I got to be the person who has
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: such a slow climb when there are some people who
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: like pop off, you know, in a year, in two
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: years or whatever.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: But I think that's just not my testimony.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know, Like the landscape is changing so much.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: I talked last week about like the creator versus journalists.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: I saw that conversation and I have, you know, lots
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: of thoughts on it. But I also believe that in
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: the process and there is no substitution. There's no substitution
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: for hard work, but there really is no substitution for experience.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: And while I don't think in any way that the
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: people that pop off quickly aren't working hard, the skills
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: that experience gives you cannot be so they just can't
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: be learned overnight, like to be able to do a
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: long form show, to be able to run your own business,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: to be able to write, to be able to do
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: live events, like whatever it is that your skill set
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: is you acquire over your time and in this business
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: or for any business in that matter, because you know,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: if you're and this isn't you know, media isn't applied
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: to you. A lot of people can feel that way,
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: and I felt that way definitely very early in my career,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: like wow, like this person's getting this opportunity and that
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: person's getting this opportunity. And one of the things that
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: helped me very early was understanding like, that's not necessarily
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: going to be your journey. Storr. If you can hear
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: my stomach growling. I didn't have I didn't ee yet.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: You know, your journey is your journey for a reason.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: And one day when well, I feel like you've made it.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: But one day when you have that feeling, you'll know
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: why it.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: Took so long to you Yeah, I get that.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, You'll you'll feel that yeah, and you'll tap into
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: a skill that you were like why did I have
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: to spend time learning this? And then it will you know,
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: it'll really, it'll really come to you. Do you deal
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: with imposter syndrome?
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: Not as much anymore.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: It's very rare that I have an opportunity where I'm like,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: oh I feel like I didn't deserve this, or oh
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: oh I don't feel good enough for this.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: I don't really feel that too often.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: No, did you? What's what's been your what's when? Your
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: takeaway over all of the business, because I you know,
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: people talk a lot about media and journalism in the
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: creator space, and in a very negative way. I there's
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: there's negatives to every business to me, and it's just
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: it takes time to learn how to navigate it. But
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: have you had that whole Hollywood experience? What do you
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: mean by Hollywood, like just just hating the business. Like
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: there are times when I actually hate this business very Yeah,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: but I love it so much that it's not going anywhere.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I do get really frustrated by the bandwagonness of
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: it all, where it's like people only think you're popping.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: If if other people are saying you're popping, I'm like, actually,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: my shit's been popping this whole time. You just didn't
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: recognize it. You just knew here right exactly. You're just
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: seeing you just I generated this motion and now you're
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: trying to hop on now that the motion's here, but
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: you didn't care before you know, you saw X y Z.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: That aspect of it can be a little bit frustrating.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot of people complain about transactional relationships.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: I actually think all relationships are transactional. Yeah, and that's
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: how it should be. I actually don't think that's a negative.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: Like why would I be in a one sided relationship
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: of any sort business personal friendship? It doesn't make any
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: parent like, it doesn't make any sense. There has to
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: be mutual transactions there. I think people look at the
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: situations that they're in sometimes that are one sided and
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: kind of create paint a bigger picture of it that way. Yeah,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: what's been your experience working with women in the business?
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm actually really grateful that I've had a
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: lot of really good experiences, especially because my show I
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Interview all women.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm at almost four hundred episodes.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Now, I've maybe had no, I've had two male guests.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Amazing, almost four hundred.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: But I've actually had a lot of really positive experiences
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: in terms of working with other women. And it doesn't
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: mean that I haven't had some weirdness. But I also think,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: and maybe this goes back to what I was saying
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: earlier about it taking longer to pop off, and maybe
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: I am grateful that things are picking up for me
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: in my thirties.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: Also, being a little bit older, you just learn.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: How to like clock weirdness and have that discernment before
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: where if I were in some of these spaces in
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: my twenties that I'm in now, maybe I wouldn't have.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: But now I can just be like, Okay, yeah, I
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: don't like that, that's not for me, and I know
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: how to navigate it better, just with age.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely a skill that you acquire and it
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: requires trusting your gut and trusting yourself also, which it
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: has taken me. I mean, it's still a journey I'm
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: on with the self trust because if you have a
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: bad experience when you did trust someone, it really I think, well,
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: at least for me, is it's been hard to overcome
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: that you talk a lot about decent answering men. I
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: it's been the greatest experience of my life, the centering men.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: And I think people have a kind of a mess
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: up idea of what that means. So what does that
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: mean to you?
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: It's funny that you say I talk a lot about
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: decentering men, because I feel like I don't talk a
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: lot about it, and that, to me is the definition
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: of decentering men like I do, haven't. I think I
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: did an episode about it a couple of years ago,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: mainly because a couple of years ago it was just
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: such a hot topic and I'm like, let me get
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: some content in with this keyword. But in even a
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: lot of my content what I talk about, I don't
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: really talk about men at all. I don't really talk
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: about my dating experiences that often, and that, to me
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: is the definition of decentering it. Because it's like you know,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: I might do it, I might experience it. I have
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: things that happen. Those are for people who know me
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: in real life, but like nobody out in the ether
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: is entitled to that information. And I think for me,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: what that looks like in practice is I'm gonna be me,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna do me. I'm going to go for the
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: things that I really want, regardless of who is or
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: isn't in my life. I'm not saving anything for later
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: if somebody might be around or waiting to hold off
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: on something based off of who may or may not
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: be there in the future. I just don't even really
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: factor that into a lot of my decision making.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: I think it's it's a really powerful thing to do
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: because so much of being a woman, from our just
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: from birth is about men. Whether it's how we dress
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: or how we do our hair, or if we wear
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: makeup or don't wear makeup, if we do our nails,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: or whether we go to school or not, or you
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: know what, like what kind of clubs we join, Like
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: everything is about like getting or acquiring or having the
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: attention of men or not getting the attention of men.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: It's just it's just always about them. Don't be too
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: much of this because Menmalda don't don't do this too
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: much because menmo or don't do If you don't do this,
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: then men woe. And it's it is just like an
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: all consuming experience and I yeah, I agree, it's so
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: it's it's really changed my life because, especially when you
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: were well for me, I had just had like a
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: very traumatic childhood and if you have trauma, that makes
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: it even more difficult to you know, siphon off those attachments.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: I also saw you talking about not being messy, which
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: I really wanted to talk to you about because I
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: don't know that I would be described entirely that way.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: But I am a very private person and in my
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: personal life is incredibly private to me, it's incredibly important
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: that it is private. It's not secret. There's a difference
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: between the secret and private. The people that know me,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: and like just like you said, the people that know
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: me know what's going on in my life. There are
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: lots of things I share. I share an enormous amount
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: about my past and my childhood, my thoughts, my trauma,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: but there are certain things I don't want to share.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: And have you found that that has affected you negatively?
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Not being messy in some ways, I think, especially in
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: the current landscape, because the algorithm rewoards mess I think
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: especially right now. I think after during and after the pandemic,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: there is definitely a big shift I think in the
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: online space, especially when it came to content that became
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: a lot more salacious, a lot more think piec a
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: lot more. Whatever can solicit an emotional reaction out of people,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: the fastest is what gets celebrated, and naturally a lot
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: of those types of conversations it's very easy to get
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: people triggered and turned into keyboard warriors. So I do
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: think from a work perspective, it has like negatively affected me.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: But that's also just so not who I am. Like,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: I'm not somebody who walks around saying and doing shit
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: just to get a reaction out of people.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: And if I were to do that, it would be so.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Inauthentic and probably sounds so weird because I don't even
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: know how to operate that way. And it doesn't mean
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: that I don't like mess like I love tea, I
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: love a little gossip if I hear it, but I'm
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: just usually not the person to deliver.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: It right or do you give a follow up loud
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: opinion about it. Yeah, I feel you on that so
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: much like doing things that are inauthentic to you. It's like,
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: if you have an audience, people know right away it
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: feels very like why is this here? Why? Why are you? Okay?
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: It can sound right to check on you.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's well, how do you navigate being I guess,
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: you know, having relevant conversations and infiltrating those spaces of
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: conversation without the mess.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: It's hard, I mean, and I do think a lot
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: of what I talk about is evergreen. So I don't
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: really do like coverage of current events naturally in conversations,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: it will happen, and I think in the conversations I have,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: it's always coming from the lens of being like a.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: Conscious person with what's going on.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: But I don't really do like hot topics, here's what's trending,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Here's what happened this week, so on and so forth.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: So I think, because that's not really the nature of
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: what I do, that lends itself well. And I think
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of it has just been training my audience
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: for knowing what they can come to me for. So
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: it's like if you're looking for a hot take on
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: what happened on Love is Blind. I'm not your girl,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: but if you're looking for a good book recommendation and
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: you need some tips to like help you get your
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: money up, they know to come to me for that.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you have to you have to have a
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: a trust with your audience too, Like that's that's very important.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: What is your opinion on the current gender war that
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: has been drummed up for the past couple of years.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: I think, do you do you go to cheesecake factory?
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Do I go to cheese I haven't been a cheesecake factory,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: and so I do enjoy escake factory.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: I think cheesecake factory since that I don't. I don't
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: have one near me. I do love cheesecake factory.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: I do too, but it's more of a like suburban thing,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I'm like, I'm in New
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: York City. I don't I don't even know where the
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: closest it would actually go to New Jersey to get.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: For you to go to say factory in New York, Like,
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: that's crazy, that's that's that's a pilgrimage. You don't need
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: to me.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: But I don't even know if like the gender war
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: is real.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: I feel like so much of it is conversations kind
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: of what we were just talking about that get drummed
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: up online for engagement. But I do think in real life,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: I don't think people actually talk to each other like
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: that as much as we would be led to believe.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: I think most of it exists on the internet for engagement.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: I absolutely agree. Like I think, well, first of all,
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: you have no problem getting attention from men.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Most of it I don't even want they can actually keep.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: Of course, of course, so and what I what I
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: mean by that is like the boisterous like I would
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: never blah blah. That's not No one acts like that.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: No one is walking down the street like, oh my god,
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: she has different tonio polish than her nail is. Like
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: I could for like, that sounds great on Twitter, but
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: that is it's just not applicable in real life. But
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I do think that there are some parts of that
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: that have have infiltrated politics. Certainly, there's a wild like
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: movement of attack on feminism. Every time someone brings up
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: feminism and outside of the Internet, I have to like
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: adamantly remind them that, like you are talking to a feminist.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: There's that, make no mistake about it. I am a
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: business woman. I wear it, I once, I have my
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: own make accounts, I have owned homes, like I own property, car,
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: like I vote. All of those things are a result
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: of feminism. Whatever your particular version of it is is
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: irrelevant to me. What's your opinion on I guess that
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: like on just how feminism as a whole has been
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: sort of I don't know if it's been rebranded or
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: just like stolen.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think what a lot of people
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: when they say they have beef with feminism or whatever,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: I think the real beef is with capitalism, but they
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: misplace that towards feminism. I am all for women having
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: as much power and autonomy in their lives as possible,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: be it personally, professionally, financially, reproductively, whatever that is, having
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: a level of agency and choice to control your own
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: destiny and do what you think is best for you.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: I do think sometimes there are conversations and again, my
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: algorithm is just all full of like women, So I
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: do see different perspectives of it where it's like, oh,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: I'm tired of going to work, and these feminists fought
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: for you to work.
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: Now, women are going to be working either way. Because
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: of feminism.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: You're allowed to get paid and actually keep it and
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: to have life saving measures in place if you get
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: into a hairy situation. But you're going to be working regardless.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: So really your beef is with late stage capitalism, not feminism.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: And I think we're all tired. Wouldn't we all love
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: to like relax in a field and eat berries all day?
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: Would love that?
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: That is not the world that we live in, right
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: or that was designed? Yeah, that was designed from a
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: lot of different things, and so I think I think
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of it's very misplaced.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, it's it's and words matter, and like
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: we started talking about it, like the the ability to
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: have intellectual conversations with nuance is just not available on
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: the internet. It's why, you know, platforms like yours are
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: so important because it's a space where you you know,
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: bring in experts, bring in people that aren't trying to
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: conjure up thief or you know, arguments and animosity and
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: just giving like pure information. I feel like there's a
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: there's actually like more of a war on information because
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: we're just in such a post truth society, which is terrifying.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and education and literacy and like all of these things,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: that's what's terrifying.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: So I like, I struggle with this a lot, and
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: I've actually been been straight up told like you you
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: aren't what you do, and I don't know, I just
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: disagree with that. But how do you separate your identity
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: from your career.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I do.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: I think like work is a big part of my life,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: but it's because I've worked really hard to create work
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: that I enjoy, and I do work that I.
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: Believe helps people, Like if.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: The girlies who listen to my show tune in take
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: something from it, apply what they learn, it makes their
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: lives better. Like that is my whole mission is to
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: create infra content that helps, if applied, make someone's life better.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: That is a big part of my identity and I'm
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: okay with that because I know my why, which is
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: to help my audience improve their lives, not necessarily to
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: support the bottom line of some gazillion dollar corporation, which
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: again we all kind of have to play a role in.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: And I know I have brand partnerships and stuff that
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: do have to help that, but to me, that's what
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: funds at the end of the day, helping my community
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: that rallies around me, and that is a big part
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: of my my identity because why not, like I'm doing
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: exactly what I want to be doing. I created it
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: so that that could be a big part of my life.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: And I feel pretty unapologetic about that.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I I mean, also, your work is
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: what you do every day for actually most of the day. Yeah,
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: how can you separate the two? What advice would you
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: give someone who isn't doing something necessarily that they love
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: and struggling with that identity crisis.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: I think it's also okay to not be doing what
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: you love all the time, because there's also aspects of
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: what I do that I don't love all the time,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Like every week when I'm sitting down to record ad reads,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I hate this, But.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: That's what makes it all possible, correct.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: But I do know when I had jobs outside of
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: self employment that I could not stand, then it was
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: like the things that I did outside of work mattered
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: that much more. That was when I really honed in
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: on my wellness practices and spending time with friends and
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: spending time with family and just making sure that that
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: time I'm outside of work, even if I was tired,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: even if I sat in traffic, even if I didn't
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: feel like it, it made showing up for those things
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: that much more important.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the that's the true balance, I think, because
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: we've all been in spaces where we're doing things we
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: aren't inspired by. The Only thing for me is if
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: I spend too much time in an uninspiring place, I
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: will lose it. Yeah, like I will. Have you ever
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: seen I think It's is It? Is it? Joy? Is
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: it that emotional movie? We're like the like the the
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: the ghosts people inside Out?
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Joy is the main character inside out? Yeah, like the
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: ghost people are like, oh no, it's not inside out,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: it's it's uh, it's it's soul. Oh, I'm mixing up
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: the Pixars movies. Pixar the Lost Souls. I feel like
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: a lost soul, those like like big giant things are
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: just roaming around like they've lost their creativity and their inspiration.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: I felt that, Yeah, I felt that big time. But
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: I think it depends on how you handle that. Because
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: for me, when I felt that, that was motivation to
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: get out and do something else. But I think when
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: you sit in that space for too long and you
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: just fester over it. But that doesn't inspire any sort
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: of movement. That's when it gets really tedious.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I completely mix up those pics. I was like
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: one of these deeply emotional Pixar movies that's probably too
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: much for children, is what I'm is what I'm conjuring on.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: But how did you feel any I guess shame and
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: reinventing yourself or like moving in a different direction. Did
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: you feel any grief over that?
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: It was hard, I think, especially when I was in
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: my mid twenties. Well, backing up a little bit, I
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: started my career in the most corporate of corporate environments
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: straight out of college. I worked at this large, super corporate,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: super boring company for like five years, and I hated
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: every minute of it. But I felt very pressure to
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: stay there because my family was like saying, this is
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: going to be really good for you. Stay here, you
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: never leave, this is good, you know whatever. But I
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: just knew that it like wasn't right for me. And
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: so when I finally five years later, did decide to
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: leave that company and start doing different things in my career,
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: I struggled a lot because I just felt like I
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: was letting a lot of people down. And also just
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: the environment that I came from. It was seen as
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: like that's as good as it gets. And so if
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: you're dissatisfied with that, then like you're ungrateful, Like who
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: do you think you are? This is you went to
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: college when not a lot of people around you did.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: You got this good job when not a lot of
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: people around you did. What more could you want? But
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: I knew that there was more meant for me, and
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: so it took a lot. It took all of that
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: five years to be like, no, I want more. I'm
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: willing to get it, and it's okay for me to
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: want more and it doesn't make me bad or ungrateful.
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: Once I got.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: Over that first hurdle, then it's just been on from there.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Then it was like, okay, whatever, Now I'm not afraid
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: to pivot, try something else, do something else, reinvent because
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: at the end of the.
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: Day, like I'm the one who has to do this stuff.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Even for that quote unquote great job that I had
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: that my parents loved, they weren't at that. They weren't
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: in that cubicle with me. They weren't sitting in two
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: hours of traffic each way to work for me to
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: get to that office. They weren't sitting in these meetings
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: where I was the youngest person there and the only
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: black person there, and people.
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: Were talking to me crazy. They weren't.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: I was, And so I had to be like, Yeah,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: this doesn't work for me, and I'm going to find
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: what is. And if other people don't like it or
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: don't understand it, they'll come around or not. But I'm
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: the one experiencing it.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: And that's really brave. I think brave is like a
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: word that people throw around a lot and that it
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: has a lot of weight to it, but it is brave,
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Like when everyone around you is pressuring you to stay
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: in a situation that you're unhappy with, whether it's a
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: job or a relationship or a friendship or even family,
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: it is brave to break out of that.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: It's hard and it's taking a risk, yeah, but I
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: think you learn to trust yourself. And I had to
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: learn it's not that if I take a leap or
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: if I do something else, I know it's going to
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: work out perfectly, but I trust myself enough to figure
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: it out regardless of what happens. And then Once you
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: have that self trust, then it can take you anywhere.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Did you have a lot of anxiety when you made
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: when you finally made the decisions?
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: So much? Yeah? Yeah, and wh where did you put
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: all that?
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: I think I channeled a lot of it into exercise
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: because fitness was also a big part of my background.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: I had side jobs and fitness for most of my twenties.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Even when I started creating content, it was very wellness focused,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: so I would channel a lot of it into wellness.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: But I just knew I had to try, like I
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: saw where not trying and staying in a little bubble
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: and staying in the same setting got me. And I
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: knew that I didn't want to waste any more time
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: doing things that didn't work for me. So it got
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: to the point where I was more afraid of staying
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: stagnant than I was of failing. And once I got
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: to that point where it's like, even if I try
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: and fail, it's better than not trying at all, it
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: was so freeing.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: It's very scary.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's there's you know, endless and I'm sure
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: you've talked about it on your show and books about
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: you know, taking taking the leap, and I will say, like,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: you know, everybody doesn't have to be an entrepreneur. You know,
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: everyone doesn't have to have their own thing. But whatever
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: it is that you're in you want to do and
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: are inspired to do. If people are pushing you in
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: a different direction, you do have to trust yourself. There's
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: also just knowing that, like there's a practical way of
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: doing things, because I've had friends that have just jumped
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: out the window on things and I'm like, WHOA, Like
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: I support, but like, let's, you know, let's make sure
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: the finances are right first, and like let's make sure
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: we have a plan. Let's make sure that you're in
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: the right mental space to activate this plan because there
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: are going to be some hurdles and stuff. So I
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: think there's a practical way of doing it. That's just
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: the Capricorn in me, I guess, But you know, I
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: do think that you once you have the plan, just
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: breaking through that wall and trusting yourself and just also
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: knowing like if it doesn't work, you can get another job,
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: Like you can get another relationship. You can't get another
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: you know, parent or brother or sister, but like you
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: can you can cultivate relationships that are positive for you,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: and you shouldn't you? You are the one, like, that's
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: the that's the point that you made that is that
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: really should I help cut through for people? You're the
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: one that has to experience this, yep, and this is
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: your life. M Was there anyone encouraging you to do it?
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: I did have a boyfriend at the time who I
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: dated for most of my tonies, who was really supportive
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: of that and was very encouraging for sure.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so that was helpful.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: That gave you like comfort and confidence.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: Mm hmmm. Yeah.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: What is your what is your circle like now? For
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: your support circle?
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: My support circle, I mean, my family has definitely come
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: around now. They get it so thankfully. My parents are
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: very supportive. I'm a younger brother who's like very supportive,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: very encouraging. I have a nephew who's two, who funny enough,
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: he's like he's cool with me when I'm back home
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: and we hang out. He's so uninterested in like facetiming me,
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: but he will sit and like watch my pun episodes.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: He's way more interested in watching me on YouTube than
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: he is if I'm like on the phone trying to
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: talk to him directly. So that's his little version of support.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: Let's give me we love those views.
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: We love Thank you, nephew.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: But I also just have really great friends, And I
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: have friends who do similar work, who I can go
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: to and like vent and who get it. And then
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: I also have friends who don't at all, who I
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: can just be normal with.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: And I think that it's so important to have both.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Female friendships have been just like the cornerstone of my life.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: And I feel so lucky that I have a really
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: wide web of strong female friendships. And I've had horrific
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: experiences with women, just like I've had horrific experiences with men.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: But I think especially our generation, the support of like
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: women and women being in the same spaces. I mean, obviously,
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: like you know, Taylor and I am Jay and I
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: have so many other friends in the space that just
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: having someone that you can call and they're not going
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: to judge you for saying the thing that if you
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: said out loud somewhere else would get you crushed, Like,
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: how has that been for you?
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: So helpful? So helpful?
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: You just got to have those people who you know
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: you can go to, and you also got to have
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: the discernment of like what stays in the group chat
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: or what stays with friends, and then what you can
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: share outwardly.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: And you know, but I do.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Think having people who I know that I can vent
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: to who get it is so helpful.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: It's the it's the world, and it's the little things,
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Like it's the times where you're you're like, why did
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: she get that job? But you have no business dealing that,
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: but you need someone to be able to say it
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: out loud to and then them be like, you know
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: that's not meant for you, da da da da da,
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: or like and it sounds like like haters shit, but like, listen,
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: we're all human beings. Like sure we go through moments
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: where we're like that I wanted that and I need that,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: or you know, I worked so hard for that and
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: it feels unfair, or I feel like I'm being overlooked,
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: or you know, even just vincing about things that are
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: going on in your life that are affecting your business.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Is having women friendships is it is? Yeah? I just
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: feel I feel so lucky. What what avice do you
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: give young women who are coming into the business. I'm
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: sure do you get you get asked that I do?
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: I mean I think a lot of it is around
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: I think people ask the wrong questions oftentimes, Like people
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: will be so focused on I want to start a podcast?
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: What microphone do I get?
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, who cares?
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: What do you? What?
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: Do you want to say?
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Something that records sounds?
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like, whatever you can afford, just whatever. You're
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: focusing on the wrong thing. What do you want to say?
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: And why do you want to say it? And who
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: needs to hear it? And why are you the person
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: who needs to deliver that message? And do you know
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: who you are enough to know what message you need
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: to deliver? Like, I think those are the types of
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: questions that people need to be asking. But also so
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: those are the questions you have to ask yourself, Like
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: I can't answer that for somebody. They have to be
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: able to be a bit more introspective. And I do
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: think that a lot of people get so focused on
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: the external or thinking that less has the answer to
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: my problem. And I probably don't have the You probably
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: have the answer within yourself, but you just have to
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: be quiet and still enough to listen to yourself and
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: sometimes just try shit and sometimes it won't work, and
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: then you try something else. But feeling like this person
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: who might be a few steps ahead of you has
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: the answer to something. We probably don't have the answer actually,
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: because we're just trying stuff too.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: We've just been trying stuff.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: For a little longer, and people would be so much
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: more served by doing than sitting around and waiting for
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: somebody else to give them the answer to something.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, And a lot of what you're saying
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: aligns with what I always tell people, which young people,
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: you need to know what you want to do and
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: in a creative space, whether it's media or podcasting or
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: you know, acting, but whatever. Like, there's so many different
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: jobs in this space, and the answer is going to
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: be found along the journey further down. If you don't
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: have the inspiration to say I want to do this thing,
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: there's just too many options. There's too many ways to
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: get this jacket. You're not training to be a doctor,
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: you're not training to be a teacher, like there are
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: traditional jobs that have these ladders and these systems in
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: place for good reason to make sure that you're qualified
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: for these particular positions. There's nothing to say that somebody
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: can't just roll over and start the podcasts of the
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: year because they're wildly interesting and they're doing it from
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: their couch, like that's how the world is now. But
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: you have to know what you want to do, and
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: I think knowing who you are is really important. Do
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: you feel like you have a good sense of self?
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: I do, yeah, especially now, And I think a lot
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: of that's come from just again, like being I guess
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: I'm moving into my late thirties now, so I think
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: so much of that comes with age and with experience
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: and living in different cities and doing different things and
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: trying different things and realizing what feels good and what doesn't.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: But I've also had to learn to let myself evolve.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: And I think that when you're younger, especially like in
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: your early twenties, you're a new adult, you think you're
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: so grown and you think you know everything. And the
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: older I get, the more peace I have and not
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: knowing everything and being willing to learn and having the flexibility.
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: To evolve and learn.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: So while I do feel like, yes, I have a
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: good sense of self, I also know that my current
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: form is not my final form, and there will be
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: so many versions of me to come, and I'm really
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: excited to meet those versions too.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's I mean, that's a sign of
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: intelligence that you know that you know a lot, but
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: what you don't know is so much more infinite, And
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: in these times where that's constantly being attacked, and in
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: our businesses I've talked a lot too, it's good that
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: you have that sense of self about you because so
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: often I'll run into people and especially like it happens
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: a lot in the sports space, which is all obviously
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: the other half of my career, where it's like you
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: changed your mind, like, well I got new information. Yeah,
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: well what are you talking about? Like if they come
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: out and tell me that this thing is actually horrible
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: for you, and there's all these years of studies and
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: all of this information by experts and people that are
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: that are well beyond my scope of something, I'm gonna
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: listen to that, or I'm gonna apply that or now
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: I know. Okay, So do you not listen to the
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: weather like they told us it's gonna rain today, so
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna bring an umbrella. Yeah I have new information.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sometimes you just change and your interests change.
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: When I was ten, I was obsessed with soccer and
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: all I wanted to do all day was play soccer
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: and watch soccer and think about what soccer players were doing.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: Now I don't really care that much about soccer because
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: I'm interested in other things. And we change and we evolve,
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: and I think also sometimes when you have more of
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: a public platform, how people meet you as how they
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: want you to stay and they have a really hard
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: time seeing the evolution in other people, but yet always
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: want that grace for themselves.
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's yeah.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: I think that's really I think that's what child actors
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: go through a lot, is that they like people see
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: them as these children and then you know, five years
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: later they're now adults and they can't their brains cannot adjust.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Why are You're not a child forever?
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: Like this is just the way that I like, they
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: literally cannot be.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: That's kind of the goal to get older. You do
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: you fight the because in all of that, something that
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: is so frustrating to me is everyone wanting to define
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: you and so you do not have the space to
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: be a multi hyphen it. Do you deal with that
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: a lot? Do you have to fight that? Yeah?
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: It gets so annoying when people tell me what I
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: am or who I am.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: I'm like, you don't know. You don't know what I do.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: You don't know what I am, You don't know what
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: I'm capable of, you don't.
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: Know what I think.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: You know, you saw a five second clip of one
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: thing five years ago and you took it and you
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: ran with it. But I don't think it bothers me
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: to the point where it affects the decisions that I make.
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: But it gets more annoying than anything else.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I find it very frustrating. In business. I run
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: into They're like, Okay, well can you just define, like
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: what do you do one thing every day? Right? I know,
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: and it's difficult for maybe sales, but like get creative,
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: you know, like people people do actually do multiple things.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: I also think it is, you know, not to bring
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: men into the conversation, but it is something that is
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: very specific for women as well, Like we have to
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: always fit into a box, yes, and when a box expands,
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: it has to be a box that everyone is comfortable with.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: So you're now a wife, or you're now a mother,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: or you're now this or you're that, And there's these
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: these just like cubes of things that you have to
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: stay in. And if you're going to cross over. Why
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: does it make sense that you cross over? And then
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: it becomes the idea of like women having to have
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: it all and I don't. I don't have a desire
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: to have it all. I have a desire for peace
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: and happiness.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think the definition of like having at
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: all kind of changes because like you're all might be
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: different in my all. I've also experienced that a few
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: different times in moving to different cities. As we were
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: talking about before we were recording how I used to
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: live in la and now I'm in New York. And
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: every time I would move cities, people would be like, well,
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: why did you move?
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: Was it your job? Was it a partner?
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: And I'm like no, I just kind of wanted to.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: I just like the city and and what flexibility and
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: decided to check it out. But the idea that like
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: a woman can make decisions that aren't solely based on
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: something outside of her is like foreign to so many people.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's again, I think it's also important what you do,
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: because you you know, establishing yourself as a woman that
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: has a purpose and doesn't need to be propped up
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: and listen, it always sounds like you're like attacking marriage,
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: you're taking children, or you're attacking for like, it's it's
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: not about that, But showing up as a woman in
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: herself and her own purpose is important because you're you're
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: a whole person. Yeah, and you could you can make
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: those decisions and choices on your own totally.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's for those things, especially when
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: it comes to things like marriage and children. I've always
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: been kind of on the fence of them of like,
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: if it happens and it feels good to me, and
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: it feels like that's the next step in life that
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: I want to take great and if it doesn't happen,
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to hate myself. But people get really
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: uncomfortable when you're a woman who does not have those
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: things and does not hate herself because we're supposed to
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: be in this constant pursuit of it and to feel
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: down bad if there's certain things that we haven't done
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: yet and I just refuse to do that.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: Well, it's a very fearful space because it's traditional. So
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: if you're not doing the traditional thing, then you're just
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: this riotous Jezebel, then it.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Must mean that you like hate the family. And I'm like, no,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: I just haven't done it.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: Also, what I do has nothing to do with you. Yeah,
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: like it really, really truly doesn't. You can have your
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: own existence completely outside of me, and I can be
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: happy for that experience for you and even participate in
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: that experience for you. So you're aitiness early. What is
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: your take on this? This kind of like scary skinny
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: that's going on right now?
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is scary. I mean I think that there's
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: different sides of it. When we think about something like
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: the GLP ones and how popular they've gotten, Like, I
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: also have people in my life who those have really helped,
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: who had really unhealthy relationships with food, health concerns and
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: like in moderation medications like that have really helped. And
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: then I also know people who have issues with body
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: image the other way, where it's just like wanting to
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: shrink away as much as possible, which is deeply concerning.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: And so for me, it's like I try not to
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: really make comments about people's bodies either way, if something's changed,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: if something's not, if like to maintain a space of
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: neutrality for myself and other people as much as possible.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: I also know that I have a lot of privilege
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: sense that I've always been kind of a smaller person,
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: and I don't know what it's like to experience something
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: like an eating disorder or to experience what life is
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: like in a larger body, because you are treated very
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: differently and life is very different, and so I don't
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: know what any of those experiences are. I've always kind
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: of existed somewhere in the middle, which is a big
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: sense of privilege in and of itself. But I think
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: ultimately I just want people to be healthy and to
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: make the best decisions for them. I do think it
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: is scary that we're seeing some of the kind of
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: celebration of what appears to be like emaciated figures again,
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: because it's like, damn, I thought we got past this. Yeah,
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: you know, what goes up must come down. But then
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: it's also like, uh, that's also kind of shitty that
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: people's literal bodies are not fashion trends that go in
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: and out of style, Like, it's our bodies, it's how
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: we live. So yeah, I don't know, it's concerning, but
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: I try to I try to not perpetuate it.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm with you, Like a person bodies,
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: a person's body, and in general I don't even have
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: thoughts on it, Like in general, I just don't think
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: about what people's body, what's going on people's bodies. I'm like, okay,
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: that is of no concern to me as long as
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: people are healthy. And then it is difficult to say,
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: you know, you look at someone and say, okay, you're healthier,
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: you're not healthy. I'm like, are you their doctor? You
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: don't know anything about it. What I guess what's concerning
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: to me is, you know, there's all these societal pressures
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: that are being put on everyone to fit into these
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: boxes that are literally physically impossible for everyone to fit into.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: And its like from a celebratory standpoint, it's a little unnerving.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: And as a woman who is coming into, you know,
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: a different aging phase, my body is constantly coming up
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: with new fun things for me to deal with. Like
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: I'm like, all right, I guess this is new, Like
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: I have to adjust to this now, and I'm just
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: happy to be healthy, like genuinely. And there's so many
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: things that as a younger woman, women would say and
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: I'd be like, oh please, girl, like whatever, like you
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: always want to be fit, Like yeah, I would like
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: to be fit, but I'm healthy and that is not
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: a thing that everybody can say.
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: So from my finished journey, that's like that's where I
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: am right now for sure. As long as I wake
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: up and feel good, I'm cool. You're getting what everybody
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: I brought today.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I even think I mean again, this is
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: going back to like me maybe focusing a little too
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: much on work. Whatever the way I think of it
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: is like the practices that I do daily that are
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: wellness related are training me to go do that. Like
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: I'm recording three.
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: Podcast episodes today. That's a lot.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I got up and I worked out this
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: morning so that I could have the focus and the
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: stamina and the energy to be able to do what
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: it is I need to do in a day. And
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: if I feel strong and if I feel good, that's great,
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: that's a bonus. But for me, it's literally training me
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: to do the things that I need to tackle in
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: a day.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you have three today? M hmm, girl, she's working.
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: When I'm in town, I gotta make it count ye,
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: I fet it in you know in.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a lot. But do you ever feel like
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: because I be tired after talking and I love the talk,
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: it's my favorite thing to do. But I like need
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: silence like not. I don't want to hear a peep
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: when I get home. Nothing, no music, no sounds, just
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: sit there and sometimes I turn the lights off.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, I want to be in my little introvert bubble
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: after after this week, for sure?
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: Are you an like one of those? I absolutely? What
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: is it called? I can't remember what it's called, but
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: it's like the ambervert ambervert, like where you're both.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm definitely an introvert. I'm like a social introvert.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: So it's like, do I have social skills?
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: Can I talk to people? Can I go be social
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: and enjoy it? Absolutely? But I do hit a point
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: where I need that recharge time.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm the same. Well I would I do. I
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: like being around humans less than actually like talking to them.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: I want to like to observe. But I definitely reach
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: a point too where I'm like, Okay, my battery is out.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Like people who know me, they'll be like I can
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: literally see the end of the battery go. And then
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: you're just like, you don't talk anymore. It's time for
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: joy to go. Well, before before you go, how is
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: your spirit? How are you feeling where are you? Like,
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: you know, just emotionally right now, you know what?
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: My spirit actually feels really good. Last night, I was
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: on the phone with a friend of mine. We were
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: kind of catching up because we'd been playing phone tag
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: for a while. Q one was like really rough for me.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: It was just yeah, it was just like a rough
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: couple of months. I left my immune system somewhere back
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five because I kept getting sick.
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: The winter in New York was just.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: Like really tough this year, and like I was going
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: through a lot of work things and just experiencing a
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: lot of rejection and a lot of setbacks, and so
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: I had a rough start to the year. But I
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: do feel like now that we're into spring, it's Q two.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: I have just felt a renewed sense of energy where
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: I'm feeling just a lot more optimistic about the things
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: in front of me that are within my control. And
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: so I feel good. My spirit's in a good place.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: But I'm glad kind of the seasons have shifted.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: I feel you that that, uh, that winter in New
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: York is some thing like I can't could not I've done.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: I've done my winter time. I grew up in Pittsburgh,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: so it's not for me, but I'm I'm glad you are.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: You're coming into that that new spring phase. I don't
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: know who was talking about it. I was at sun
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: Dance and someone was talking about how like the winter
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: really is we don't operate in the way that winter
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: is supposed to be, like winter is supposed to be
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: for rest and we just work through it. And spring
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: is actually when the new year starts. And it really
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: had had me thinking a lot about about that, that
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: we don't take the rest that we need. And yeah,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: like the spring should be the awakening time. And so
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm so glad that you're experiencing that. Thank you,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming on. That's pleasure. I
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: was really excited that you agree to because I've been
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: following you for a while and I love what you do.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: So make sure that you follow less Alfred and you
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: go and subscribe to her podcast She's So Lucky and
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: all the other things that she has coming up, and
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: when her book comes out, you go buy it, but
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: for now follow her subseec Thank you, Thank you. Is
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: there anything that you have coming up that you want
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: everyone to check out?
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: No, no, I mean, just new episodes that she's so
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: lucky every every Tuesday. And yeah, people can follow me
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: on all the socials like you said at less Alfred.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome. Well, thank you so much. I
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: really appreciate it. If you're looking for really just a positive, uplifting,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: informative and I just feel like you're very kind.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: I was on my best behavior with you today. Girl.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: I'm usually cussing up a sailor storm. You could still cut.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: That's the thing.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: I do think people think that I'm potentially more wholesome
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: than I am. Just because I'm not messy doesn't mean
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: that I'm like super wholesome.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: So you can cuss, you can do whatever.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well I fucking loved having you. Thank you. But yes,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: she's so lucky pod, and thank you so much for
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: coming on.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having me