Latest / Nightmare Success In and Out / Two years of Solitary Confinement to National Leader of Reentry

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Two years of Solitary Confinement to National Leader of Reentry · Nightmare Success In and Out

0:00
What happened? Hi, I'm Frank Cassidy.
0:05
Welcome to the diversity chairs in our podcast.
0:11
We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in love
0:16
with others all night. Some of the prisons we both got.
0:37
It's where you come to. What happens when you work here
0:40
becomes a reality. How do you adapt, survive,
0:43
overcome. And if you like this show.
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If you like anything in this show don't forget to follow
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subscribe like comment all that good stuff that helps the show
0:51
grow. Guys I have AI have a big fan of
0:56
this guy I just told him that for probably sound like I was in
0:59
his fan club but I am it's Jay Jordan and I want to read real
1:04
quick here from because I was reading different things about
1:07
Jay and I watch some stuff on YouTube and but the Guardian the
1:11
way that they start this out in the Guardian this is when Jay
1:14
Jordan was getting out of prison in 2012 in an ambitious plan to
1:19
turn his life around. He's going to sell life
1:22
insurance to store all cars get a real estate license establish
1:26
a community barbershop. It was one problem.
1:28
His criminal record barred him from every single industry. 10
1:33
years later Jordan has led a successful campaign to give
1:37
millions of California residents the opportunity to clear the
1:40
criminal record and be free from the similar barriers state
1:46
lawmakers pass they build championed by Jordan allowing
1:51
for automatic sealing of a wide range of arrests and conviction
1:54
records, the most far reaching reform of its kind in the US
1:59
Experts say the hard treatment of people with criminal records
2:03
are uniquely American phenomenon in a country that is a global
2:07
leader in incarceration, perhaps 10s of millions of people in
2:12
poverty denying them access to jobs, housing, education, other
2:15
basic rights. And the thing about Jay Jordan
2:19
is he's a doer. He doesn't just talk about it
2:22
when there's problems, he goes out and he finds solutions for
2:25
him and gets right in the middle of it.
2:27
He's passed 100 laws in the last 10 years.
2:30
Nobody does that. He's Co founded Time Done, the
2:34
CEO of Alliance for Safety and Justice where again that
2:40
individual has passed 100 laws in that time period, 10 years
2:45
benefiting reentry for justice impacted people.
2:49
If you want to find him on Instagram, there's a lot of
2:52
people following him. He's Mr. J Jordan with over
2:55
1,000,000 followers on Instagram.
2:58
It's an unbelievable story. It's it's homeless, it's it's
3:03
getting into the community and giving back.
3:06
It's building a wall. And I want to talk about his
3:08
wall because it it actually had a huge impact.
3:11
And it's not the wall you're thinking, Jay Jordan.
3:15
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Tell them Brent from Nightmare Success sent you.
4:02
OK, Jay Jordan, we're back. Welcome in, my man.
4:07
How are you? I'm good.
4:09
Thanks for having me. How are you, Brent?
4:10
I'm good. So I I was telling you before we
4:13
got. I I was so intrigued with this
4:16
YouTube interview. I was watching from big boy TV
4:20
that I got so enthused, I pulled my laptop over to my wife,
4:23
Julia. You got a list of this guy.
4:25
He's he's hitting on all cylinders.
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And I mean, I heard about your background.
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I mean you you had a dad that was a minister from Oklahoma.
4:33
I think you have some of that DNA in your blood.
4:35
Your bomb was from California. And it but Jay, I mean you've
4:42
been on quite a journey, man. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely been
4:48
a a journey to say the least. It's, it's.
4:53
I've had a run. Well, I want to Let's let's go
4:55
back and and tell me a little bit about Little Jay, Little Jay
5:00
Jordan. When he's growing up, what was
5:02
life like? Siblings.
5:04
I know. I think you're one of eight.
5:08
Take us, take us back into that world.
5:10
Yeah, I I had a great upbringing, man.
5:12
I I like, you know, my parents are both ministers, academics
5:20
and practitioners. You know, I don't come from a
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broken home. I don't come from a
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statistically wrecked home. You know, I I came from a a
5:33
household of love and appreciation and authenticity
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and faith. You know, in fact traditional
5:38
family values. It was the external forces,
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right, that really began to kind of knock the the the train off
5:49
the track. You know, growing up I had a No
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one really knows this, but I I really love you know what folks
5:57
do with foundations, Like, say, on the stuttering foundation?
6:02
Because I had and still have a debilitating stuttering problem
6:06
like it was. Are you?
6:07
Kidding me? Yeah, yeah.
6:09
No, no, it was. I can't.
6:10
Believe that. I mean, I I would never have
6:12
thought that. Yeah, yeah, it was bad.
6:14
It was really, really bad. I so much so Brent.
6:17
I used to go into convulsions, eyes rolling back in the head
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like I'm, you know, having a seizure.
6:25
When I would say difficult words, I would get tripped up,
6:27
you know, and it lasts like literally from I can remember I
6:31
had a stuttering problem. And so growing up with that
6:36
going to school, you can only imagine kids would say things
6:41
and I reached the point of time to where, you know, I got tired
6:45
of them saying things and I would do things.
6:47
So you would say something, you're going to get a response.
6:50
And that was really kind of, you know, started me on this journey
6:54
of, you know, not liking authority.
6:58
I remember I used to go to the school Creekside Elementary and
7:02
God bless educators, God bless special education folks.
7:07
Everyone working in that field, they are doing God's work,
7:10
literally. It is so difficult to work with
7:12
kids that have stuttering problems or ADHD or any of that
7:16
stuff because they're not only dealing with the element itself,
7:20
they're dealing with the pressure society puts on the kid
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and all the trauma that comes from that.
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The one thing that I didn't like about it was we they they sent
7:33
me like in the middle of the day.
7:36
So all the kids were kind of like they sent me to a tiny
7:39
little room that everyone knew if you went to that room, there
7:42
was something wrong with you in terms of your ability to, you
7:45
know, keep up. Yeah, academically.
7:50
And I used to go to this room and all the classrooms were
7:53
lined up in the library and the and the room was right there.
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So everyone. Oh man.
7:59
I would walk out of my classroom every Thursday and go to this
8:04
room and do speech therapy. And I would leave.
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And I would see kids looking. I'd be like, Oh my God, they
8:09
know. But I have this ailment.
8:11
And it was so bad. Like, it was so bad.
8:13
You know? So that was really, I won't say
8:18
traumatizing, but it's oh. That sounds traumatizing,
8:21
though. I mean, I think stuttering in
8:22
general would be something that you're always thinking about,
8:26
you know? But it's it's in the back of
8:27
your mind. Is it going to happen?
8:29
And I got to get stuck. That's that's something I I I
8:33
get that, absolutely. Yeah and that and that was that
8:37
was that was tough that was tough growing up with a
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stuttering problem and and and you know so you end up what ends
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up happening is you compound your friends based on similar
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circumstances and in my case the circumstances was well the world
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is against me are people really don't know who I am.
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So there's other people like that in school.
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Just so happens that they weren't they were dealing with
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economic challenges at home that I wasn't dealing with.
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So we would link up and you know, that became my circle of
9:11
friends, you know, Wesley and Lamar and all my homies that I
9:14
grew up with. You know, Nate, shout out to
9:18
Nate Callaway. You know drummer in Vegas one of
9:21
my closest friends. You know grew up with these guys
9:23
and you know we would fight and you know get in get into it and
9:29
somewhere along the line 131415, you know you begin to compound
9:34
the behavior with substances. You know, and I'm from North
9:39
Ogden and it was everywhere. And I remember doing this
9:42
speech, you know, later on in life to a bunch of 8th graders.
9:47
And you know, the question was, is we the gateway drug?
9:51
You know, like and and my response to that was absolutely
9:56
it is, but not for the same reasons that these other people
10:00
are saying. Right.
10:01
I don't agree with what they're saying, which is you smoke so
10:03
much weed that you want to start smoking crack, doesn't have to
10:06
do that. My gateway what, What caused it
10:10
to be a gateway drug for me and so many others that end up
10:13
smoking weed or doing what? Drinking whatever it is when
10:15
you're younger is you are around an older crowd that can have
10:19
access to those things. So while I can get access to
10:24
weed because you know some guy going to sell me a 5 pack of
10:27
weed, you know, on the street for sure, even though I'm 1415,
10:30
he doesn't care. He's going to sell me the five
10:31
pack a week. I can't go to the store and buy
10:34
papers, I can't go buy a lighter.
10:36
So who don't have to have the 18 year old and then the 18 year
10:39
old? Introduces you to older people
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to become your mentors that you and.
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They're drinking now. I'm drinking.
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They're riding around cars now. I'm riding around in the cars,
10:47
1516 years old. Now I'm not going to school
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because I want to get picked up and go smoke and go drink and go
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do whatever and that into compound, yeah.
10:56
And that's how. Jay you mentioned something I
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don't know how big a deal it was because I until you just
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mentioned that about stuttering. I I've, you know do research on
11:05
people because I have curiosity about what you know that person
11:08
is I'm talking to. But so I didn't know that about
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the story, but I thought it was interesting that you brought up
11:14
to that at school that, you know, there were two different
11:18
phrase and one of them had the coffee cake on it and the other
11:23
one didn't. And if you had, you know, a an
11:27
extra $0.25 or a a a food stamp or whatever it was, you could
11:32
get that coffee cake. And so you had a day like that
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where you picked up a couple of extra food stamps or whatever
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and you got that coffee. It's somebody or somehow hold on
11:44
you. But it it made you feel like
11:47
they were bringing you down, like you had turned into those
11:52
rotten person, and that you had, you know, you were the kernel of
11:56
the world. Yeah, I remember that.
11:57
So it was second grade. 2nd grade I mean. 2nd grade, it was
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second grade. It was second grade, Brent.
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And I didn't know that I couldn't take the tickets off
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the, you know, like tickets. It was tickets and and you would
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have to have a ticket in order to get an extra the coffee cake.
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And I just took a ticket from my teacher's desk and went and got
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me a coffee cake. Oh man, it was a big deal.
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Oh, you stole the ticket. I'm like, you know, the ticket
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was right there. I didn't know I'm.
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I'm in second grade. I wanted to coffee cake.
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And coffee cake is what you wanted.
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Oh man, it was. It was.
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Happy to coffee cake. It started my criminal activity
12:34
started in second grade. Bread.
12:35
I was, I was destined to go to prison from there, you know, oh,
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but, but but it shows you like, you know, we really don't think
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about the little things that happen when you're younger that
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shake your perception when you're older.
12:50
You know, I was reading something around why a lot of
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young black or young boys of color grow up and you know, and
12:59
when they hit puberty, they just explodes into, you know,
13:03
alcoholism or violent behavior. And you know, some of the people
13:08
who you know, have a different school of thought is like oh,
13:11
because they're black or brown or whatever.
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But if you go a little a layer deeper and and you know, stop
13:16
with the ignorance, what you realize is between the ages of
13:19
three and five, the synapses in our brain are being, you know,
13:23
created, they're being developed.
13:25
And the synapses in your brain really regulate the neural
13:28
pathways. And so if you're told no, you're
13:31
right, that sends a signal to another part of your brain and
13:34
you get frustrated. That's when kids have temper
13:36
tantrums, because they can't regulate their emotion.
13:39
They. Want you to?
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You tell them no, there's no regulation that says, oh, daddy
13:44
or mommy told me, no, because it has sugar, because they're they
13:48
don't have those synapses yet. So between ages three and five,
13:51
it's very important to have conversations about why you're
13:55
telling the kid no and let them process those things and build
13:59
up healthy synapses. Well, what happens in black and
14:01
brown neighborhoods? The parents don't have time for
14:04
that because and not even just black and brown neighborhoods.
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Literally like economically disadvantaged neighborhoods.
14:09
So poor white people, if you are poor or if you.
14:12
I hate to use the term poor, let me let me take a step back.
14:16
If you do not have the economic means to slow down every time
14:21
your kid wants something. And to explain that if you are
14:25
working two jobs and are trying to get your kid to sleep at 7:30
14:29
so he can get up, or she can get up at 7:30 in the morning and
14:32
take and go to school so you can be at work by 8:15, you don't
14:35
have time to explain to your child why they can't have a
14:38
cookie because sugar is bad and you get cavities from that.
14:42
You don't have that time over and over and over, right.
14:45
And so compounding those things, you are yelling at your kid
14:50
saying, no, you can't have it, you can't have it.
14:53
And they're building up these synapses and their brains were
14:55
like, you know what? When puberty hits, right, it's
14:58
like I'm going no, exactly. And so throughout their entire
15:03
life, we criminalize that behaviour.
15:06
Yeah, education settings. Because in our education system,
15:10
unfortunately, teachers don't have the time because the
15:13
classrooms are too full and the funding is not there to slow
15:17
down and say, well, actually, Jay, this is what you're
15:20
supposed to be doing. I'm not going to send you to the
15:23
principal's office, but I'm going to explain to you why
15:25
taking that ticket is not the way to go about business.
15:29
Now, if you were to ask me for a ticket, I would have gave you a
15:31
ticket, but it's OK. The teacher did not do that
15:33
because rules and regulations say send Jay to the principal's
15:37
office. Call his.
15:38
Parent. Then there you And then it.
15:40
It reinforces what I was told when I was three to five, which
15:44
I was the last of eight. My parents didn't have time to
15:47
slow down and tell me, you know, hey, it's OK, don't cry, right.
15:51
And that happens all across the country, all across the world.
15:55
And that's why, you know, I'm I'm a big advocate for building
15:58
in social economic learning. Yeah.
16:04
Between ages of. That's what I like because I I
16:05
mean I don't want to jump ahead of your on the time done set.
16:08
But what I really like about what you do with time done is
16:10
you feed them what they need what do you need and and and you
16:14
build that person up. And then you said by hey, by the
16:17
way I'm going to need some help from you now if you're building
16:19
up, you're going to help to help me within the community here.
16:21
And there needs to be more of that dynamic And a lot of things
16:24
that we got going on with important topics of of
16:29
solutions. You know you got to build
16:31
somebody up to make them where they want to be able to make
16:34
something happen or make an impact.
16:35
They can't make it when they're down in the dead.
16:37
Yeah, or. And you have to help them
16:39
rebuild those neural pathways. Exactly.
16:43
It's funny when you say that, Dick, because I remember my dad,
16:46
he was an attorney by traders. So he when he when his when I
16:50
was little, he when he would spank before he spanked me, he
16:54
would set me down and ask me why he was going to spank me and I
16:58
would have to tell him why he was going to spank me and then
17:00
he would spank me. Yeah, it's literally.
17:06
Yeah, it's like, I don't want to do this, but we're going to do
17:08
I. Don't want to do this but tell
17:09
me why I have to do this. Yeah, yeah.
17:12
And that's the and that's building systems around the
17:17
biological nature of humans that go through these institutions.
17:21
And systems should be the way we should be building systems, but
17:25
we don't. We build systems to maintain
17:27
budgets and become efficient systems for the system's sake,
17:33
Absolutely, the participants say.
17:36
That's. Why It's also it's also how you
17:38
introduce somebody to that system like you know you had an
17:41
experienced young teenager fireworks are are are exploding
17:47
and and I think if I understand right Jay, there's the the
17:51
police officers show up and they think it was gunfire and I mean
17:56
that's a very negative experience to be approached into
17:59
the that world with police officers and you know the
18:06
heightened feeling of that as a teenager.
18:08
I mean, what? How old were you when that
18:10
happened? See.
18:11
Like probably 12 maybe. Young.
18:16
It's like a 6th grade. Maybe younger than that.
18:18
I So we're at church Thursday night.
18:22
Thursday was prayer night. And if you know anything about
18:26
Pentecostal black churches, prayer goes for a long time.
18:30
Prayer goes for a long time, man.
18:33
And we were there. It was probably like 8:00.
18:36
They've been praying for four hours straight, five hours, 3-4
18:39
hours straight. And you know, you they tell you
18:41
go in the car because you're tired.
18:43
You don't want to be in the church while they're praying
18:45
because they're going to call you up there eventually and
18:47
they're going to hit you with the oil.
18:48
And why are you in oil? You know, it's like we're all in
18:55
the car. It's me, my sister Erica, my
18:58
sister Lauren and a very close family friend, Katrina.
19:04
And she's outside, you know, I don't know why she was outside
19:08
the car. We're all in the minivan and we
19:10
hear fireworks going off. It's around 4th of July.
19:13
It's central Stockton. So central Stockton is really
19:15
known as a hotbed for, you know, drug abuse and criminal
19:19
activity. And, you know, she could we hear
19:23
the fireworks and we're trying to see where the fireworks are
19:26
AT. And Katrina's running around the
19:27
car. Let me in, let me in.
19:29
And so we're laughing like, no, no, no, we're not going to let
19:31
you in. And finally we let her in.
19:33
She's like that were gunshots. We're like gunshots.
19:35
OK, whatever. So we're kind of like all scared
19:37
and all of a sudden police cars come into the church parking lot
19:43
and mine, just a small church parking lot.
19:45
And so we're at the back of it facing the street and we can see
19:48
the cars coming in to the parking lot in the face.
19:52
Us and all like in a semicircle surround the car and all these
19:55
cops get out and draw their guns and we're out the car by this
19:59
moment and we're kids. Like they can visibly see, like
20:02
we are small frail kids. And you know, even even when we
20:07
exit the car, you know, they still have their guns drawn and.
20:11
You know, tell us to get on the ground and we're all crying and
20:14
trembling. I.
20:15
Had to be scary. It's my first time having a gun
20:18
pointed at me. I didn't know what to do.
20:21
And you know, oh man, the my parents and the deacons and the
20:26
women of the church came out of that church and let them have
20:29
it, boy. And that was that.
20:30
I had a sense of while I was scared.
20:33
I've never seen my fear in my dad's eyes and anger in my mom's
20:40
eyes. Like I've seen that day.
20:42
My mom was like a lioness. She she went from praying to you
20:48
know, listen, these are my babies.
20:50
You are wrong. Who like and and you know we got
20:53
a formal apology and but that was, you know very a very
20:59
traumatic experience. Something I remember for the
21:02
rest of my day, I and look, I didn't hold it against the
21:05
police, you know, but it's still, it's still, you know,
21:09
scared to have multiple guns pointed at you when you're a kid
21:12
and saying get on the ground, you know, it's not a, it's not a
21:14
good feeling at all. That's.
21:16
Your experience, So take this Jay into as you if you were kind
21:25
of getting into more and more things in your teenage years,
21:30
kind of walking in that wild arena on the streets and doing
21:35
can you walk us into the night that things went down for you?
21:42
Yeah, yeah. So like I was saying, you know,
21:46
growing up, I didn't have had a great upbringing, but my parents
21:51
worked, you know, they worked there.
21:53
They went back to school, they got their masters, they were
21:56
working. So, you know, when I, by the
21:58
time I came along in the 80s, they were already driving long
22:02
haul trucks, My mom working as an engineer, My mom's an
22:04
engineer by trade, My dad's a pastor and truck driver by
22:07
trade. And so it was, you know, we
22:10
were. That day me, Because I know your
22:12
dad's from Oklahoma. Your mom was.
22:14
Yeah, yeah, well, you know, it depends on who you ask.
22:17
It depends on who you ask. My my dad says he moved.
22:20
He moved to LA and this girl used to flag him down every day
22:25
and finally he stopped and picked her up.
22:27
And my mom, when she tells the story slightly different, she
22:31
says that this old creepy guy used to follow her home.
22:37
He got her in the car and then they have eight kids and 30
22:40
grandkids, like, you know, 20 years later.
22:43
But yeah, yeah, old country. That's a love.
22:49
Story, love story or it's a different type of story.
22:51
You know, pretty good who you ask.
22:53
But yeah it's it's so, you know, they they work.
22:58
The value of work and and and pull yourself up by your
23:02
bootstraps was like embedded innocent as a child.
23:05
But I really didn't have that connection with my dad.
23:08
He was always gone. He's always providing for the
23:10
house. And so, you know, I was always
23:13
that three to five years old. I didn't have those synapses,
23:16
right. And I think, and I believe
23:18
that's where, when I did hit puberty at 13, you know, I'm
23:22
already out there. I'm already, you know, smoking
23:24
weed. I'm already, you know, hanging
23:26
out with people that were significantly older than me, My
23:28
brother's friends, they're, you know, lived right on the street
23:32
where I used to walk home from middle school.
23:34
So it was always like stop at their house.
23:36
Fall into the the sibling order. Where did you fall into the?
23:39
I'm the last, oh. You're the youngest.
23:41
I'm the baby. I'm the last of eight, so it's
23:44
me, my sister, a year older than me, and then I have another
23:47
sister two years older than my brother.
23:49
And so my brother's friends is who I used to hang out with
23:51
because his friends had younger brothers.
23:53
So it was all of us. And then and we used to hang out
23:56
with them and see what they were doing, then emulate.
23:59
Like a little team. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:01
So we took it one step further than they did.
24:04
They were like drinking and smoking.
24:05
We were like, OK, we're going to fight, drink and smoke.
24:08
And it's it just escalated. I remember 1415 feeling like,
24:13
you know, I didn't want to be at home anymore and had like this
24:17
crazy idea that I knew what the world wanted for me.
24:20
And, you know, I was AI was a misguided kid and my parents
24:23
didn't understand. And, you know, I was a
24:25
privileged kid that just did some dumb stuff, you know, And,
24:30
you know, that was going on for two years and, you know, ended
24:33
up stealing a bottle of alcohol, going to juvenile hall for it,
24:37
for a bottle of alcohol. And, you know, at age 1819,
24:46
well, fresh out of high school. So this was like, graduated high
24:49
school. Ten months later, I'm trying to
24:53
figure my life out. I'm like, you know, all my
24:55
friends graduated. Nate went off to the Army.
24:58
I'm like, I can't, I can't be the only schmuck here in
25:02
Stockton not doing the thing of my life.
25:05
And so I decided to, you know, go and take a test, to go to UTI
25:08
Universal Technical Institute to build, you know, cars, to be an
25:12
automotive technician. And I did a.
25:16
Good job by the. Way.
25:17
Yeah, I know. And I took the test and I've
25:19
scored really high. I've always had like this knack
25:21
for learning and thirst for knowledge.
25:24
Just didn't really mesh with, you know, kind of my lifestyle
25:28
choice as a kid. And I, you know, I said, you
25:32
know what, I'm going to go to this thing in Phoenix, but I
25:34
want some money and, you know, with some friends and got drunk,
25:38
got high, ended up involved with a robbery 10 months after my
25:43
18th birthday. I was the only one that got
25:48
caught. We didn't get any money.
25:51
Yeah, we didn't get any money. Nobody got really hurt.
25:56
You know it was like a it was a dumb mistake by by misguided you
26:00
know kid that didn't know left from right and you know, because
26:07
there was a gun involved. They.
26:12
Had seven years, eight months and two strikes, you know, oh.
26:17
Man. Yeah.
26:18
And I was the 1st in my family to go to prison.
26:22
They, they they, I didn't understand at the time, but the
26:26
the the law, There's a law on the books in California.
26:30
It's a gun enhancement law. Yeah, Penal Code, never a guns.
26:34
Involved. Yeah, yeah, it's Penal Code 12 O
26:38
22.5. So if you're listening to this
26:40
and you're thinking about picking up a gun and using it in
26:43
the Commission of a crime, there is a law, Penal Code 12 O
26:47
22.5312012 O 22.53. Understand that law because that
26:54
law will put you in jail for life and you will never see the
26:57
light of day. And that's what I was charged
27:00
under. And luckily there's another law
27:02
on the books, Penal Code 12 O 22.5, not .53, but .5 that gives
27:09
a lesser sentence. And we got an attorney and I was
27:12
given that lesser sentence and the judge said either we give
27:16
you 13 years with one strike or seven years with two.
27:19
And my dad said, why would you take more years?
27:22
Because you know and you're not going to get out and commit any
27:25
more crimes. You had one crime but two
27:27
strikes. One crime, but two strikes and
27:30
and because I had a gun and then I, you know, the robbery and,
27:34
you know, I didn't understand it.
27:35
And my dad was like, well, if you want to get out and be a
27:37
knucklehead, then take the one strike and do more years.
27:40
I'm like, I'm not going to do double the years.
27:44
And so I hate I made the decision there that, you know,
27:48
listen, you know, I'm going to have two strikes and I have no
27:51
other chances. So this is me not looking back.
27:54
And you know, I took the deal. I remember the the day I took
27:59
the deal, you know, I went back to the pod in the county jail
28:04
and I felt a sense of relief because all the things, all the
28:09
disrespect, all the disappointment, all the anxiety
28:15
I caused my family, I felt like this was me paying for all of
28:18
that. What I didn't realize is it
28:23
wasn't me paying for harming my family.
28:28
It was actually going to do more harm to my family, me leaving
28:32
and my presence not being there. And so I had a lot to unpack
28:35
over seven years. Well, I mean I I it's something
28:40
we talked. It's something we talked about
28:41
here, Jay, a lot is you know when when somebody goes to
28:44
prison, their family goes to prison and and all those people
28:47
deal with that in their own way and hopefully they can lean on
28:51
each other. But it affects everybody.
28:53
I mean I had a wife and three daughters when I went to prison
28:57
and you know they were two were in college, one was in high
29:00
school and it was it was a lot to deal with.
29:03
And that, you know my wife happened to you know she was
29:06
like a superhero. She could have worn a Cape and I
29:09
think that's how we got through it because the way she handled
29:12
it and and how she got through it.
29:15
I think the girls look at that and he's at his strength.
29:17
But so many times, you know, family members just split and
29:22
scatter when that happens and and it becomes, you know, a
29:26
disaster zone. But before we get into, I want
29:30
to get into this next step of how you walked into your world
29:33
of of Prism. I want to recognize our new show
29:36
sponsor Cyber Success Podcast is sponsored by the White Collar
29:40
Support group. It's the world's first support
29:43
group devoted to people navigating the white collar
29:45
criminal justice system. I'm a member of the White collar
29:49
Support group, and I can tell you that this is a bunch of
29:51
people who help each other through the criminal justice
29:54
journey for free. Whether you're just starting
29:56
your journey or have made it through to the other side, this
30:00
is a great space for you. You can join us on Zoom Monday,
30:03
7:00 PM Eastern Time, 4:00 PM Pacific.
30:06
Or information, go to prisonist.org.
30:09
That's prisonist.org. Start here.
30:12
So today at that time, I mean taking on seven years is old is
30:17
that's a big you know I got a five year sentence and I
30:20
remember when I got sentenced to five years because I had, I was
30:23
probation to five years with my plate and you know she maxed
30:26
everybody out. And I I almost feel like when I
30:31
had that happen I I almost was like it was an outer body
30:34
experience. I was like Oh my God, that's
30:36
five years of my life. I don't even know if I remember
30:40
even breathing. It was just like, I don't know.
30:43
And then you figure out how to step through because you never
30:48
know how you're going to deal with something, but you just
30:50
start dealing with it. What?
30:52
How did you get into your? What was it going through your
30:56
mind at that time? I mean, I mean, I'm.
30:58
Only 19 years old, right? Yeah, I just turned 19.
31:03
I I had accepted it. I was.
31:04
I was. I was ready.
31:07
I was, well, you're ready. The county jail sucks, by the
31:10
way. They they make sure, yeah, yeah.
31:13
They make they make sure that you are ready to go.
31:15
Yeah, it's. Made so nice to go to prison.
31:19
And make sure you are nice and ripe.
31:21
You are nice and ripe and ready to go.
31:23
Out of here, right? Yes.
31:25
Yes, I was ready to go. I was ready to go and I just
31:28
didn't want I had. I had, I had heard all the
31:31
stories from people who have been to prison.
31:35
We're like, yo, prison is way better than this, you know, way
31:38
better than this. You have more freedom.
31:40
You can start your visits. You get on a program, you can,
31:42
you know, go to school. All these different things they
31:44
were telling me. And so I was ready to make it
31:47
right. I would like, you know, what I
31:49
got 7 years. I got 7 years to work on myself.
31:52
I spent the last seven years goofing around and, you know,
31:55
disrespecting my parents. Well, I had already at this mind
31:57
state that everybody that, you know, wanted me to succeed, I
32:03
was going to prove them right. And everybody that didn't want
32:06
me to succeed, I was going to prove them wrong, right?
32:08
That's why I had already made-up my mind that I was going to take
32:13
this seven years and turn it into.
32:45
I lose you there, Jay. You there.
32:58
I got you. You just froze up there for a
33:02
minute. I can hear you.
33:09
It's just it's funny. It just froze up out of nowhere
33:12
because you were fine. Yeah, I got you.
33:18
I can hear you. Can you hear me?
33:28
Can you hear me, Jay? Can you hear me, Jay.
33:36
Jay, can you hear me, Jay. Jay, can you hear me?
33:55
Can you hear me, Jay? You got fuzzy which is OK if
34:11
because it's FM. This Riverside FM corrects all
34:15
this stuff. But I've you're you all of a
34:18
sudden got. How's this?
37:47
OK, Jay, there we go. All right, we're OK.
37:53
OK. Was it on your side or my side?
37:57
I think it was on my side. It was.
37:59
Because I all of a sudden, I mean, you were really good, and
38:01
then all of a sudden you were you went fuzzy.
38:03
Yeah, it was on my side. It was on my side.
38:05
OK. So I'll bring you back into
38:07
where we were talking about you being prepared.
38:12
So I'll I'll just, I'll bring us back into that.
38:15
Yeah. So, Joe, you were saying that
38:17
really at the time that you got that sentence of seven years,
38:21
you're really prepared. You've been in the county jail,
38:24
everybody was telling you that prison's better.
38:26
And you were like, man, I I got to get out of here.
38:28
I'm ready to. I'm ready to get this going.
38:29
Yeah. I was right.
38:32
I was. I was right.
38:34
I they they definitely make county jail as uncomfortable as
38:39
possible. And when you're in there, you're
38:41
talking to a bunch of different other people, two types of
38:46
folks. One, people who've never been
38:48
sentenced or been to jail or, you know, prison 2.
38:52
The people who've been there and are telling you, hey, you know,
38:55
if you're if you're going to take a deal here or if you know
38:58
you're going to get some time, you know, get the best deal, go
39:01
to prison, start your time now. And there's a couple of reasons
39:05
for that. One, prison is just with a lot
39:07
more programming, a lot more freedom.
39:10
And then two, your time starts differently.
39:12
So in county jail you're you're doing like dead time.
39:15
It's not. You're not getting time.
39:16
It doesn't count for anything, right?
39:18
Yeah, well, you're getting, you know, a a day for day, right.
39:21
So it's like one one day is is one day.
39:23
But in prison in California at least there's like if you do one
39:28
day with no accidents or no incidents rather, you know, you
39:33
get time off for that. So it's I I didn't qualify for
39:37
time and a half, but it was like time and extra couple of hours.
39:40
Right. And so that leads up to the 15%,
39:43
which is 85%. You do 85% of your time, You
39:47
know, you go to prison, that starts.
39:49
So I was ready. I was ready to get going.
39:52
I was ready to kind of, you know, stop with the, you know,
39:56
you feel you feel like, OK, if you know you did it right.
40:01
There are folks who absolutely did not do it right.
40:04
Yeah, right. But the majority of people that
40:06
find themselves in jail, let's be honest.
40:09
They did that shit, right? It's it's like, you know, now
40:13
you're just negotiating, right? And so I'm literally negotiating
40:17
with myself while I negotiate with my attorney, while I'm
40:20
while I'm negotiating with the state and you.
40:23
Know it's funny about that, James.
40:24
You got like, when I was in prison, I felt like I had, you
40:29
know, everybody was innocent. Everybody was a professional
40:32
athlete, everybody was a millionaire.
40:35
You just kind of, like make up your own world.
40:37
It was kind of crazy because, I mean, you didn't know who
40:39
anybody really was unless they were, you know, close to.
40:43
You. Yeah.
40:43
Yeah. And that's, and that's what, you
40:45
know, I was like, you know, it's time to go.
40:47
So I I decided to, I decided to take my, my punishment.
40:51
And it was like, you know, let's go.
40:53
So I remember taking it and go transferring out, going to
40:58
Tracy. So I was in Stockton, San
41:00
Joaquin County and then they transferred me to Tracy Do, a
41:03
vocational institute. It's DVI is now closed by the
41:06
way, but DVI was reception center.
41:10
So you go to these reception centers and they classify you.
41:13
It takes about a month or two to classify you.
41:15
Your custody level, if you are level 1, which is the lowest or
41:19
your level 4, which is the highest, where you're going to
41:22
go, What do you want to do? You take your tapes test which
41:27
is your your education test to see what education level are you
41:31
in. If you don't score above like a
41:33
10 point O or 9 point O, they put you into remedial courses
41:37
where you have to go get your GED.
41:38
I had my GED and you know and I scored high.
41:42
So they're basically put me on the track for work.
41:45
So what do you want to learn right?
41:47
I, I, I wanted to go into auto mechanic, obviously, right.
41:53
Auto body and paint, which was the one that I actually chose.
41:57
And then you know, reception center was, was, was, was, was
42:01
interesting because you get your first taste of prison.
42:03
It's not really, it's prison, but it's not really the prison.
42:06
Prison 'cause you're locked down most of the day, but you get
42:11
your taste for the different cultures in prisons, right?
42:14
I'll I'll just say that in California there definitely,
42:18
yeah, definitely different cultures.
42:20
And I like, so I'm making a point, Brett, just to, you know,
42:26
I don't talk about prison politics, you know, publicly at
42:30
all full stop. You hear me say one, one or a
42:33
few things, you know, but in terms of like how prison goes,
42:37
how it's set up, I, I don't talk about that at all.
42:40
I leave that in prison. You know, there are still guys
42:42
serving times, still women server serving time in prison.
42:46
And you know when you're in there, you get all the tricks or
42:49
the trades you get. So I hear you.
42:51
Man. I do not say anything about what
42:54
goes on in prison, you know, at all.
42:58
But I would say that, you know, you get, I got my first taste of
43:02
the of the culture and definitely the segregation.
43:05
There's definitely real segregation that happens.
43:09
Forced segregation. It's not, it's not a chosen
43:12
segregation. It's forced upon you.
43:14
When you get in there, it's like you go over here, you go over
43:17
here, They classify you by race. That's what it is.
43:20
You go with the race, go, you're very primitive and you know you
43:26
get your first taste of how it's going to be.
43:28
And then I got sent to, I was Level 3 start, start starting
43:33
out. I had like 30 points.
43:34
So California is dictated by a point system.
43:37
You know, you lower your points every year.
43:38
You hire your points every year. If you get an incident, you
43:41
know, you get in a fight, you get 6 points or four points or
43:44
eight points or whatever. I mean, if you get to 52 points,
43:47
that's level 4. They ship you off to a more
43:50
secure maximum security prison. And it's by design.
43:54
They call it 180 or 270. Design is basically how prisons
43:58
were designed back in the medieval times.
44:00
That's when they came up with these designs and are really
44:03
based on the amount of people they can house in one unit and
44:09
and and and how many super, how many guards need to supervise
44:12
those individuals based on severity of violent level.
44:17
And so I went in there with 3234 points I believe and got to
44:22
Solano State Prison and Solano at the time in twenty O 420 O
44:27
five was definitely a prison that was in the midst of a war.
44:39
And so I went. I went.
44:40
I went when it was wartime. And I did.
44:43
Four years. I've heard of that.
44:46
I mean you. Know bloody Belmont has some
44:49
terrible stories down in Texas. The wartime.
44:52
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I did my the entire time I
44:55
was there, it was war. It was.
44:58
And you know, and if you've been to California prisons, you know,
45:02
you know wars have different battles.
45:04
You get into battles with different other factions.
45:06
And so there was multiple things happening when I was there, you
45:10
know, and and I won't speak on a lot of that stuff, but if you
45:15
catch me, if you catch me in person, then we can sit down, I
45:18
can you know explain to you. But so I I kind of doing wartime
45:23
and my points shot up quickly. You know, I wasn't, I didn't, I
45:28
didn't last going, I didn't last having a job that lasted about
45:33
like a month but before you're in war, right.
45:36
And so my time in prison was really spent politicking, and
45:47
that got me two years in solitary confinement.
45:51
Which guy was waiting for you to get there?
45:53
I I I cannot leave them fathom because I I saw guys that would
45:59
go to the hole for six weeks and come back looking different and
46:05
two years. I mean, they what?
46:09
How how does a man get through that mentally knowing?
46:14
I mean, I didn't guess you even knew how long you were being
46:17
locked down, did you? Well, initially they put you in
46:21
the hole and then you go through, you know, basically the
46:25
prison's version of court system and you kind of know based on
46:32
what happened, you know, my situation I can speak about
46:36
because it was, you know, you can look through the paperwork.
46:39
I was involved with a melee. You know, it was, you know,
46:43
someone got hurt and you know, I didn't do the hurting, but I was
46:46
involved with it. There's a.
46:49
Lot in prison, they take one person and the whole, the whole
46:52
group. Anybody's around there?
46:53
Everybody. Goes Yep, Yep.
46:55
I was. I was.
46:56
I didn't you know personally hurt somebody but somebody got
46:59
hurt and and I was. I was.
47:03
And and Jay, I'll tell you that that when I say that it it's it
47:09
seems and what you're talking about somebody got hurt and and
47:13
and and a thing that I remember was is it was the World Series
47:18
and somebody they chased somebody with a cell phone and
47:23
they couldn't find out where he went.
47:26
They chased me. Everybody's wearing the same
47:27
clothes and you know, they lost him.
47:30
And so they got the whole place and locked everybody down that
47:33
night for the 7th gate of the World Series.
47:35
And you know, it's stuff like that when you are in an
47:39
environment where you don't really have very many rights.
47:42
But in the prison system, if if, if you're around something, you
47:46
don't have to be involved in it. If you're just around something,
47:50
you know you're you're you're cooked.
47:52
Or if they see you talking to a, you know, somebody sees that guy
47:56
talking to the prison guard, that's that's, you know, a death
48:00
March for that guy, for Smith. And he might be talking about,
48:03
you know, getting a job at the food warehouse.
48:06
But you know, it's a crazy, crazy world when you when you
48:10
think about where you are in proximity to what's going on in
48:13
the in the prison environment. And that's and that's and that's
48:17
pretty much how might happen. It was wrong place, wrong time.
48:21
And you know, I I didn't, I didn't say much in the
48:26
proceedings. You know, I was just whatever
48:29
y'all going to do, I'm not going to try to defend myself, you
48:32
know, because you know, again, when you politicking, you can't
48:35
really say too much. So, you know, I let them do what
48:39
they do and they gave me about 18 months in the hole in in the
48:43
shoe. So you have the hole and it's
48:45
six months going through the process and in 18 months into
48:48
the segregated housing unit where they ship you out.
48:51
They ship me away from my family because Solano was about, you
48:55
know, 30-40 miles from my family.
48:57
So my family will be able to come see me and the girlfriend
49:00
at the time I had will could be able to come see me.
49:03
But when they shipped me down to Tehachapi, which is 300 miles
49:09
from my family, became increasingly difficult.
49:13
I mean, so I mean when I got there, how I got through was the
49:16
first question, Brent, Like I got there in two days after I
49:19
got there, her just banging on the wall.
49:22
So mind you, I'm in the hole hole.
49:26
I'm in prisons, prisons, the real stuff, right?
49:29
And I get there and I have none of my possessions.
49:33
I have no TV, no books, no anything.
49:37
And some guy starts banging on my wall and I know I'm going to
49:41
be there for at least two years and I have two strikes.
49:45
So at any moment in time they could say we want to take you
49:49
back to court because you were involved with someone getting
49:51
hurt inside prison and we're going to strike you out.
49:54
That was looming over my head. So I'm stressed out.
49:59
I get to the cell, I'm asleep for about a day because you
50:02
sleep it all off and you're like, Oh my God, I'm actually in
50:05
the shoe. I'm in the hole and not for.
50:08
A day. And not for a day, but for two
50:10
years by myself. And the second day I get this
50:15
banging on the wall. Poo poo, poo, poo poo.
50:17
And you know, somebody bangs on the wall, you get in the vent,
50:19
you start talking, Everyone knows who's been to prison.
50:21
Know what I'm talking about? Right.
50:23
So I hear banging on the wall. I don't want to answer because
50:27
I'm in jail. In jail.
50:29
And I beg you, struck out, banging continues.
50:32
Poo poo, poo, poo. Megan gets louder.
50:34
Poo, poo, poo, poo poo. I'm like, OK, I'm going to cuss
50:37
this dude out. I get up on my toilet, get in
50:40
the bed. I'm like, yo, what do you want,
50:42
homie? And he's like, hey, who are you?
50:46
Like, I'm Jo. And I give him where I'm from
50:49
and my credentials, right. You know, and the most you know,
50:53
meanest way I can give it to him without being disrespectful, you
50:57
know, because you never want to disrespect anybody and friends.
51:00
And that's a big deal. Yeah, and so he says that's what
51:05
you are, ask who you are and he starts laughing and he says my
51:08
name J0J 0J0 and I'm like student.
51:13
And he keeps saying it over and over and over and over for it
51:17
seemed like all day. And I begin to play that
51:22
question back in my head. Who am I?
51:27
You know, am I? Am I from N California, My crip
51:32
and my Jo and my this and my that and my, you know, I mean
51:36
and like that's what like. And I it was just like, you
51:39
know, you have a time to think. You have a lot of time to think
51:41
while you're in there. And so I just was literally
51:44
obsessing over that question because you obsessed over some
51:47
people obsess over some relationship or or like some
51:51
people obsess over the thing that happened.
51:52
And you know, if especially going through an investigation,
51:55
you're like, OK, well, what's going on here and try to, you
51:57
know, piece it all together? And I just became obsessed with
52:00
that one question and I couldn't shake it.
52:03
Who am I? And I couldn't answer.
52:07
I was like, well, who am I? I'm a man.
52:09
I'm like, that's about, you know?
52:10
Yeah, of course. Biologically I'm a guy like, OK,
52:13
but like, well, who? Like who am I like?
52:17
And I couldn't really answer the question.
52:20
And that's when it all broke for me.
52:23
It broke that's. Really interesting.
52:26
Yeah, that's what I mean. Did that happened to end the
52:28
time of of being in the solitary cell?
52:31
Yeah. Yeah, that's when it broke.
52:32
That's when that's when the damn broke.
52:34
That was the demarcation line there.
52:36
And that was oh, now I understand what my dad told me.
52:41
Now I understand what all these years what he was saying that
52:43
this is not you. This is not you.
52:45
And yeah, I realized it wasn't me.
52:49
I realized. I've seen the promise that you
52:50
had in you that you just recognized.
52:53
Yep, Yep, That. It was in that moment of just
52:57
complete and utter loneliness that I've been grasping for a
53:08
piece of me that I thought I needed to find externally.
53:17
But everything I needed was already in me and I didn't have.
53:21
To turn it. On external labels, on me,
53:24
everything that I've heard about myself, somebody told me about
53:28
myself. Right.
53:32
Yeah, that Brent, when you realize that everything up until
53:36
that moment came from external validation.
53:40
Yeah. And coupled with you didn't need
53:43
it because you already had in you everything.
53:47
That you needed. Great.
53:50
I was like, it was like a a revelation.
53:53
Like I just learned that I I just won the Lotto.
53:56
But I also lost it at the same time, right?
54:00
Only so from that point on that that is incredible.
54:05
At that moment you you basically turn to yourself and say, man, I
54:10
I'm Jay Jordan, I can do all the things I want to do.
54:15
What did you start doing because you're still in prison?
54:18
Oh man, I, I, I, I asked for a piece of paper and a pencil.
54:25
When you get a revelation like that, you write.
54:28
Got to start writing. Yeah, yeah.
54:30
Don't read, don't write. If you have an epiphany, if you
54:35
are feeling like I got it, stop everything.
54:38
Don't get on the phone like like sit down in a quiet room just by
54:42
yourself, no distractions, and start writing, start drawing.
54:46
I started drawing and sketching and oh man.
54:50
And then I started to write my parents, and I told my mom, I
54:53
said, can you please send me all the books?
54:58
That's that's all the books I. Made all the books and she would
55:01
send me reams and reams and reams of Internet searches.
55:05
Oh, I love my Mama. Just reams of Internet searches.
55:08
I'd be like, yo search this and this and this and this and this
55:11
and this and this. Because books will take forever
55:13
to get there. The next day mail me thick
55:17
Manila envelopes full of Internet searches, and my room
55:19
became like a law library of just like knowledge.
55:23
And I wanted to learn about history and math and different
55:27
theories and philosophy and democracy and how democracy came
55:31
to be. And do we live in a democracy or
55:34
do we live in a Democratic Republic?
55:36
All of it. All of it.
55:39
I became obsessed with just learning about society and
55:42
myself and religion. I read this book of the Golden
55:47
Bowl. It had to be about 1002 thousand
55:52
pages of just different spiritual practices and faith
55:58
traditions like everyone you can think of.
56:02
I devoured that book like five times.
56:04
You know, I was hungry, Brent. I got hungry, man.
56:07
I became so introspective. It was crazy.
56:11
And they put this guy in my cell after like 6 months, like 6
56:14
months ago passed and I'm growing a beard.
56:17
I never grew a beard before. My beard has grown.
56:19
My hair is all crazy and they're like, they think I'm going
56:22
crazy. I'm just hoping for knowledge.
56:25
I'm like, I'm getting out there like this guy.
56:28
I'm not talking to anybody. Yeah.
56:30
No, it's probably a good thing. It's not.
56:31
You're crazy. I'm.
56:32
Talking to him, I'm talking to anybody, you know, I'm not
56:35
really eating too much. I'm working out like crazy.
56:38
I keep getting these packages every day, these rims of paper,
56:42
reading them, like what? I'm putting them, using
56:44
toothpaste to put these papers on the wall, you know, I got
56:47
drawings. They're like this guy is losing
56:52
his mind, you know? But I was finding myself.
56:55
I lost my mind. But I found myself, you know, I
56:58
melted all the. I lost my mind.
57:00
But found myself you. Know and and and it was and it
57:07
was great. I mean, I wrote plays.
57:10
I learned. I read this book the The
57:12
Screenwriters Bible by David Trottier.
57:14
You know, I wrote plays for my mom and she would act them out
57:17
and send me pictures of the plays at the church and huge
57:20
productions. You know, massive productions.
57:23
You know, I wrote a book, you know, the Idiot's Guide to
57:26
Prison where I mirrored the operation manual of prison and I
57:30
like literally took chapter by chapter, basically said this is
57:33
what you do. This is what they want you to
57:34
do. This is how you do it.
57:37
Yeah. Yeah.
57:38
I wrote a master thesis called I am basically saying what I'm
57:41
telling you is everything that you need is already inside of
57:44
you. And when you, when you look for
57:46
external validation, you're watering down your true self,
57:49
right. Like it was just so much.
57:52
I think it was probably the culmination of, you know.
57:58
How close were you to getting out when all this was taking
58:00
place? So I got out in 20.
58:03
I I went to the hole in 2022. Excuse me, 2002.
58:09
No, 2004. I went to the hole in 2004.
58:14
Sorry, my dates are mixed up. I went to the Hole in 2008
58:20
because I was in the hole when Obama was elected.
58:22
OK. And then I got out the hole in
58:25
2010. Gotcha.
58:29
OK. And so I was seeing.
58:31
I was seeing all of the world crumble.
58:35
Yeah. My family going through it and I
58:38
love my parents. They still sent me stuff.
58:40
Even though they're going through their own stuff outside,
58:42
they still sent me stuff and wouldn't stop.
58:45
I've seen the address change. I'm like, why'd you move?
58:46
And they're like, oh, don't worry about it.
58:48
You know, all my family were living in one house together,
58:51
save money. And I didn't know any of that
58:52
stuff. Yeah.
58:54
And we were. And I was just learning and
58:56
learn, turn on the TV and I'm seeing the economic.
58:59
You know, downfall. I'm learning about that.
59:00
See me being, you know, about what Obama's doing, about the
59:04
like and just learning it. I learned all that I can learn.
59:07
And that's when I, you know, realized oh man, I'm gonna, I'm
59:15
gonna do something when I get out.
59:18
And I remember like, it was like, halfway through I'm like,
59:20
oh, I'm getting out, What am I going to do?
59:24
All right folks, we're going to end part one here with Jay
59:27
Jordan because he's got so much stuff to talk about once he gets
59:31
out, how he creates his world and re entry, all the incredible
59:35
things that he did in re entry. So TuneIn next week for Part 2
59:41
with Jay Jordan and some good stuff.
59:44
A whole other interview of incredible things that this guy
59:48
Jay Jordan has done since you got out all the way to have
59:51
another bill signed. You have a Newsome handing with
59:54
a pen. It's a big deal.
59:56
Hey, go. If you need a book to read while
59:59
you're waiting for Part 2, go to Amazon.
1:00:03
Brent Cassidy Nightmare success. Get my book put.
1:00:07
Keep it up with the likes and social media comments and the
1:00:11
Apple reviews. I'm loving it.
1:00:12
Go to brentcassidy.com if you're looking for anything else with
1:00:16
me. It's all right there.
1:00:19
I want to thank Jay Jordan for part one here today.
1:00:22
And as I used to say to my people when I was writing stuff
1:00:26
back and forth from level one, stay strong.
1:00:28
I'll do the same. You back there next week.
1:00:31
Thanks everybody.