Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 190 - Sean MacDonald - CEO Kainova Therapeutics

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Episode 190 - Sean MacDonald - CEO Kainova Therapeutics · The BioHub - by Avetix

0:05
So welcome back to another episode of the Biohub and
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Avetics podcast. Today, I'm joined by Sean
0:11
McDonald, CEO of Kynova Therapeutics.
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Sean has spent more than two decades building and leading
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biotech companies with deep experience across strategy, deal
0:21
making, fundraising and corporate development.
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Kynova, formerly Domain Therapeutics as a clinical stage
0:27
company focused on unlocking the potential of GPCR biology in
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immuno, oncology and inflammatory diseases.
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In this conversation, we talk about the story behind the
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company's rebrand, the renewed excitement around GPCR drug
0:40
discovery, how Sean thinks about building culture across
0:43
international teams, and what is next for Kind over.
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It's a pleasure to have you, Sean.
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How are you? I'm fine, thanks.
0:49
Thanks very much for inviting me to be here.
0:52
No, it's, it's seriously a pleasure to have you on.
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I'm excited about this. I I just want to start with you
0:59
and the origin story. So you've spent, like I said, 20
1:02
years building companies, doing deals and shaping strategy and
1:05
biotech. What originally drew you into
1:08
the industry? I would say it was a love of
1:13
science, or at least a curiosity that was started pretty young.
1:19
I think it's long out of business now, but there used to
1:21
be a kind of monthly magazine for kids called Zoo Books.
1:25
OK. And each, each month it was a
1:27
different animal or a different sort of grouping of animal
1:31
species, etcetera, that you go through.
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And I got that for one of my birthdays and really, really got
1:37
into it. And then I learned what marine
1:39
biology was at the age of 9 and just sort of, I think stayed
1:44
interested in science through high school into, into
1:46
university. And it was a realization that,
1:50
you know, I, I just liked understanding how things worked.
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I think that I remember very vividly in a university
1:57
inorganic chemistry course where all of a sudden I can understand
2:00
the periodic table of elements because of the orbitals, you
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know, and I think there was that, that, that interest that
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that drove me into industry because it was an industry where
2:09
you can use science, where you need to kind of understand a
2:12
little bit of that in order to be successful.
2:16
But at the same time, I realized during my undergraduate degree
2:19
that kind of pursuing science right to the end was not for me.
2:24
I was not a big fan of micro pipetting that, you know, that
2:28
sort of all night lab work. It wasn't the thing that
2:31
motivated me. So I was quite lucky to to
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connect with some folks on the business end of the industry
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early enough to to kind of move in that direction right from the
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get go. Yeah, I love that.
2:44
And then into the industry. What?
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What's then LED you to Canova? That's another bumper pool
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story. So I got into the industry kind
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of relatively quickly, ended up in business development.
3:00
So, you know, licensing, usually working for the small biotech
3:05
and licensing to big pharma. I did that in, in Canada.
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So right now I, I live in Montreal, Canada, but spent
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almost 10 years in Europe, about half that time in Copenhagen,
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Denmark, the other half in, in, in, in, in Belgium.
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And, you know, sort of moved around always doing business
3:25
development, but you see a lot of different things as a result.
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I tried my hand at being CEO for a small little startup right
3:36
before the pandemic hit. So I can say with experience
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that being a cash strapped biotech going into a pandemic is
3:43
not great. And so I lived through that, you
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know, at one point went down to 0 salary.
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So I took on some just consulting mandates to help pay
3:52
the bills or we're trying to get this company off the ground and
3:56
it was really through that, I would say.
3:58
So the company unfortunately didn't succeed, but but the
4:01
consultancy mandates kind of continued and I connected
4:05
through one of Domain Therapeutics at the time
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investors to to come in and help, you know, management
4:13
through some, some, you know, challenges in 2023.
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And then ultimately, you know, through some, some again,
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different bumps here and there, ended up being offered the role
4:25
of CEO in April of 2024 and haven't looked back.
4:28
That's awesome. And you know, when you stepped
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into that CEO role, you know, there, there was an element that
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the company was going through a a bit of an evolution, which
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more recently has include the rebrand from the main to to kind
4:41
of a why, why was that change important?
4:45
I think that Domain Therapeutics was founded in 2008.
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I think it probably goes without saying, if we think about what
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we were doing in 2008 and what the world was in 2008, there's
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been a lot of change. And I think that, you know,
4:59
through its history, Domain has adapted.
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It's it's a great survivor, but I think ultimately when they
5:09
wanted to bring in some new capital, then they had to start,
5:13
I would say, streamlining their strategy to look a little bit
5:16
more like a traditional biotech company.
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What I mean by that is they had a lot of single asset company
5:22
spin offs. They had, you know, some
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internal programs. They had a lot of pharma
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partnerships through their history, they actually, you
5:28
know, were able to generate quite a bit of revenue through
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those partnerships. But around 2021, they realized
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that, you know, what they needed to take this platform that they
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had that have been so successful in partnership and develop up
5:40
their own pipeline. That's a tough transition.
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And you know, as you drive now kind of from science and
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preclinical development, which was a, a, a really, really a, a
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big strength at, at domain towards clinical development.
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You know, this, this is a, you know, a big, big transition.
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And, and I think that from an expertise standpoint, from
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positioning standpoint, from a operational standpoint, it
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requires, it requires some changes.
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And so I think that that coupled with the fact that between 2021
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and 2024 financing environment markets everything, you know a
6:16
lot of different changes there as well that that created a lot
6:19
of adversity. And so from a strategy
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standpoint, from a pipeline focus standpoint, from an
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indication focus standpoint, from a structure standpoint.
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So you know, we, we did go through some painful
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restructuring, particularly at our French site, but also a
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Canadian site. We have made our first hire in
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the United States now as we're pivoting more towards North
6:38
America. But ultimately, you know that
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those changes we're very, very important in order to be able to
6:45
attract few further investment. And I think ultimately Kinova
6:49
Therapeutics is the last step in that chain.
6:54
And so the way I describe it to somebody at JP Morgan wise, if
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you think of you, you're rebuilding the car from the
6:59
inside out. Well, Kinova is kind of the
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final paint job, but it's a reflection of these changes that
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we went through over the last kind of almost 24 months now and
7:09
the and the resilience of the team, but also forward-looking
7:13
towards now a future where we're a clinical stage company, strong
7:18
differentiation from a clinical asset standpoint and and
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continue to drive forward towards ultimately potentially
7:24
commercialization ourselves in the United States.
7:27
Yeah, I love that. It's almost, you know, it, it
7:30
looks clean, it looks smart, it looks, it looks incredible, but
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it's almost more about what it actually represents and what
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you've gone through as a company.
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Yeah, yeah. And I think I know over the
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word, right. It was it was a very interesting
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rebrand. A lot of different options.
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I bet you know, to to look at and turn both in terms of name
7:51
as well as scheme. But Kynova so Kairos is is is
7:54
Greek for kind of pivotal moment or a moment of change and Nova
7:58
obviously new innovation looking forward.
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And so the combination of those two.
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Love that. We felt was a great a great
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reflection of of where we find ourselves.
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I love that. I love that.
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So let let's talk about kind over a bit.
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So for, for people who, who don't know you guys, can you
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just walk us through the company and the science and, and what,
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what you're building? So as I mentioned Domain
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Therapeutics, you know, it's been around for for a long time
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and it was really based around GPCR drug discovery.
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It had a platform, a technology platform that allowed kind of
8:32
better understanding of the downstream signalling of GPCRS.
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And you know, some of the other technologies you get to lock the
8:39
GPCR in a certain configuration to allow for, you know, drug
8:43
discovery. In our particular case, we can
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deal with the native confirmation.
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So what that means is that number one, we're, we're more
8:52
likely to actually find something that's trying to do
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what it is you want to do with the GPCR.
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And, and #2 it actually allows us to kind of TuneIn or tune out
9:02
certain types of functionality. So you know, instead of a
9:06
straight antagonist, which silver competitors are, you
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know, are, are are obviously able to get, we can get
9:11
allosteric modulators, we can get biased allosteric
9:13
modulators. And so that that the strength of
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the technology platform is really the basis for our
9:19
pipeline. And so as mentioned with the
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transition now more towards clinically focused company, it
9:24
really is the pipeline that we're we're focused on that that
9:28
is driving the value. So we have two assets in
9:31
particular one now is is finishing off well, finishing
9:35
off knock on wood, fingers crossed Phase 1 two trial in in
9:40
Australia just opened up some sites in Europe as well.
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This is a monoclonal antibody that's been FC optimized for T
9:48
Reg depletion. So it's an immuno oncology asset
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targeting A GPCR called CCRA just present on the surface of T
9:55
regulatory cells. We're not the only ones pursuing
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this. It's it's a relatively hot
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target at the moment in the IO space.
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We're keeping a close eye on disclosures from some of the
10:04
competition, upcoming AACR and ASCO meetings.
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But ultimately what we're seeing is clear T Reg depletion at a
10:12
biomarker level in the blood. We're now repeating that, you
10:15
know, same task in in, in tumors and we're seeing some sustained
10:18
responses and some pretty sick patients in our phase one, which
10:23
is which is very encouraging for us.
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The second asset small molecule, this one is an inflammatory
10:29
disease. It targets a GPCR called Part 2,
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heavily differentiated from the competition.
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This is one of our biased allosteric modulators, which we
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think has a more nuanced therapeutic approach as compared
10:42
to the straight antagonists. Lots of interest, lots of
10:46
strategic interest in particular around that asset.
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And so you know, this is something that we we, we might
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be able to see some movement through the course of the year
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and in finding a partnership. But obviously we've also defined
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a pretty clear path forward for us.
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Just finished off the the talks program and our our can move
11:02
that into the clinic as we move into 2027.
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So really promising assets, you know, from a, from a positioning
11:09
standpoint, you know best in class in both cases for Part 2,
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arguably first in class just given the approach as compared
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to the rest of the field. But ultimately for us, you know,
11:20
very excited to have these in hand and obviously to have
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assets that have come out of a platform that is still
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attractive for industry. So in February, we actually
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signed a a small collaboration with with a large pharmaceutical
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company that you know, more of an option deal in the beginning,
11:38
but has the potential to bring in some real revenues as we move
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into 2027. Oh, it's super exciting for
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sure. It's super exciting.
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When you were talking about being founded back in 2008 and
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now you alluded to some resilience and change across the
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company, right? What?
11:56
What's that been like as the company has has evolved so much?
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So the business models, you know, that they go through and,
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and I think that being close to or, or going through periods of,
12:09
of financial challenges, OK, let's call it creates scar
12:14
tissue within teams. And this, this scar tissue I
12:20
think can, can kind of manifest itself in a couple of different
12:24
ways. 1 you know, for, for, for some people having those types
12:31
of experiences, it's, it's, it's traumatic and you know, they,
12:35
they, they almost, when they go through it again, then they
12:38
almost get paralyzed. I think what's great about
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domain, that's where I'm talking about resilience.
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The scar tissue in their case is, yeah, well, we still got to
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show up to work, deliver the data, do what we need to do and
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move on. You know, now whether we have
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500 million in the bank account or 500,000, we still need to do
12:56
the same things. And they, and they, you know,
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they, they don't get all in a, in a tizzy about it.
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And I think that was very interesting for me to see
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because coming in, I've, I've certainly experienced what I
13:10
described in the former case in, in, in groups that have maybe a
13:13
little bit less experience. But you know, this is a team
13:16
that's been together for a while.
13:17
This is a team that's lived through several ups and downs,
13:19
several different crises. If you think about, I mean, 2007
13:24
was a biotech crisis, 2015, the pandemic, These guys lived
13:28
through all that and domain, you know, persevered, not just
13:32
persevered, but succeeded. Let's face it, the pipeline that
13:34
we have now that's in clinic are ready to move into clinic was
13:38
conceived years ago, you know, during the pandemic and
13:41
developed during those times of, you know, stress and, and
13:45
challenge. So I think that that resilience
13:49
that, that, that scar tissue, that experience of being able
13:52
to, to, to persevere regardless has been critical in terms of
13:56
the, what we've been trying to achieve, you know, in terms of
14:00
change and, and, and, and evolution over the last couple
14:03
years. It's cool, and you know, we've
14:05
always come full circle now in the fact that GPCR biology is,
14:10
yeah, becoming popular, though at least there's anyone you'd
14:12
interest in it again. Why do you think the field's
14:15
becoming exciting again? Sure.
14:18
Well I mean look GLP 1 is a GPCR.
14:22
So I think that, you know, coming back in a cardio, the,
14:25
the renewed interest in cardio metabolic, in particular success
14:29
in obesity or the interest in obesity has, has, has played a
14:33
role in that. Historically GPCR targets have
14:37
delivered in cardio metabolic and CNS.
14:39
Those are kind of the two therapeutic areas where they've
14:42
been the most successful. I think that new modalities as
14:50
well as you know, I, I, I would say better understanding of some
14:57
of this GPCR biology, so new tools of the academic level to
15:01
better understand how these GPCRS play a role in indications
15:05
of side of cardio metabolic and CNS.
15:07
Coupled with the fact that both CNS and cardio metabolic are
15:12
making a bit of come of a comeback from a market
15:14
perspective, you know, has contributed to the renewed
15:16
interest. I think for us, what's great is
15:19
that there's so many GPCRS, there's so much diversity and,
15:26
and, and coming with the, the, the platform that we have that
15:29
not only allows us to deal with a particular GPCR, but also
15:33
segment which biology we want to hit for that GPCR really allows
15:38
us to come with quite, you know, differentiated profiles, let's
15:43
say in the therapeutics that we develop and a lot of white space
15:46
to play with. Yeah, I'm going to pivot a
15:50
little bit here as well. So you, you talked about earlier
15:53
being, you know, based in France, Canada and more recently
15:57
in, in the US, How do you think about building and maintaining
16:02
a, a strong culture across teams in, in different countries?
16:07
Yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a good question.
16:11
That's a tough one that it's we, you know, spend a lot of time on
16:16
because I think that for, for me, culture's a very, very big
16:23
word. And, you know, I think that
16:26
obviously from a corporate culture standpoint, there's also
16:31
the, the personal culture that needs to be compatible, right?
16:36
And I don't try to play with the personal culture because I think
16:40
that, you know, there are differences between Canada and
16:43
the United States. There are differences between
16:44
the United States and France that that personal interaction,
16:49
you know, and how they engage with the local office.
16:52
That, that that to me is something that you know what we,
16:57
we, we, we try not to touch. We let the local flavour the
17:00
local. I would say that local flavour
17:04
live for me, I think I'm and what I try to do is just be
17:09
very, very clear on the ends. And so the local culture sort of
17:12
the means is sometimes of how they'll engage.
17:15
So for instance, just give you an example working from home.
17:21
This this is, you know, the practice is a little bit
17:23
different. So just sort of come up with one
17:26
generalized rule you try to apply internationally in the
17:30
exact same way. You know that that's not really
17:35
what this is about, right? You, you, you, you end up having
17:38
different people who are engaging that in different ways
17:41
because it's more common in one jurisdiction versus another, for
17:43
instance. And it's not really about
17:46
working from home, it's about having the flexibility to
17:49
deliver on X, right? And the flexibility to deliver
17:53
on X might be different if you're working in a lab versus
17:56
if you're, you know, doing financial statements.
17:58
And so again, it's more to try to tease out, well, what what is
18:02
the performance criteria? How can we really clearly
18:06
explain what it is we're trying to accomplish and then be
18:09
flexible with the different tools that they can apply in the
18:12
local cultural context to be able to achieve those ends.
18:16
And so that's what I'm trying to do.
18:19
I'm, I'm not saying that we succeed, you know, perfectly
18:22
every time. But I think that as we are now
18:26
also trying to build more in North America, bringing in more
18:30
people that are, are counterbalancing some of that
18:33
historical French head office dynamic.
18:37
This is something that we're we're, we're trying to to, to
18:39
do. Yeah.
18:41
Yeah, it's interesting for sure. When you talk about those
18:45
different the cultures of different countries, I think
18:48
it's it's really interesting and.
18:51
And I think, you know, because behaviours are going to be
18:54
different because the cultural context in which they do it, and
18:57
so the interpretation is going to be different.
18:59
But regardless of whether the team member is in France, Canada
19:04
or the United States, if you need to deliver data set X, you
19:09
know, you need to deliver data sets X.
19:11
That's an objective criteria and how you deliver that obviously
19:16
GMP also is, you know, cross-border, but then how you
19:21
deliver within the context of GMP, you want to come in early
19:24
and leave early because that's kind of what you do in your
19:27
local culture. Sure.
19:28
You want to do that from home. Well, if you can still deliver
19:31
the data, sure. And so we try to be, you know,
19:34
would not legislate behaviours, but really kind of focus on, on,
19:38
on the ends and, and have that kind of provide them the
19:41
cultural framework in which these individual local cultures
19:45
can interact. Yeah.
19:47
And it comes back to that resilience piece you talked
19:49
about earlier. You know, this kind of behaviour
19:52
that is just distilled in the company because of the people
19:55
you've hired and what what they've been through as a whole
19:58
business. Yep.
19:59
No. And that and that, you know, I,
20:00
I think it, it makes it tough to hire new people.
20:03
That's true, yeah. Right.
20:05
How do you look at that? And behaviours.
20:08
I think it's, it's to, is to spend the time getting to know
20:10
folks. I think that's, that's what it's
20:13
about. I think that we don't take
20:15
hiring lightly. I think we've, you know, we
20:19
haven't been doing a lot of hiring over the last, over the
20:22
last couple of years as we've, you know, really worked to, I
20:25
would say stabilize your financial picture.
20:27
But in, in hiring our Chief medical officer, I think it's a
20:29
great example. We had an opportunity to engage
20:32
with Jean Marie and a consulting basis 1st to get to know each
20:36
other first. Yep.
20:38
And ultimately to have a level of, of, of trust and belief in
20:42
what he could contribute to the team before then.
20:45
We ultimately went through the, the, the final process and
20:47
brought him on board. So we're very lucky to be able
20:50
to have that dynamic. I, I, I don't think that's going
20:52
to be a template for how we can do it once we sort of start to
20:56
hire more broadly. But I think that ultimately
20:58
taking that extra time to make sure of that fit to your point
21:03
that, that they maybe not that same resilience, having lived
21:06
through all these different things, but the very least the
21:08
benefit of that resilience that I'm going to call it corporate
21:11
maturity of being able to recognize that, well, they're
21:14
doing something. They're, they're doing it
21:16
differently than I am, but they're achieving the same ends.
21:18
And that's what's most important.
21:20
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I that's becoming way more popular by the
21:24
way, this one of contract to perm sort of scenario making
21:27
sure people the right profile and yeah, it's so, so important.
21:31
You know, you don't want to get that wrong.
21:32
You've you've nailed a culture that's right.
21:35
You know you don't want to change that dynamic in any way.
21:37
Yeah, yeah. So.
21:41
Yeah, personally you, you've been involved in in billions of
21:44
dollars worth of partnerships and and transactions.
21:48
How does that experience shape the way you you think about
21:52
leading a biotech company today? Sure.
21:55
I, I think that I, I'm gonna call it the, the, the standard
22:00
template for a new biotech company.
22:02
And so if you have a platform, right, your first deal is to try
22:06
to get your brand name. So get a big pharma name
22:09
attached to validate your platform because people rarely
22:14
they don't trust you, but they do trust once you're kind of
22:17
validated with that external name.
22:18
So you know what you might put up with getting a lower upfront
22:22
as a result. So it's not a great, the PR
22:24
value is in the name, not necessarily in the in the in the
22:27
first upfront right now you've got your name.
22:30
Well now the PR value comes in the size of the deals that you
22:33
ultimately can go for next. And so then all of a sudden, you
22:36
know, you're bringing in more capital etcetera.
22:40
The next step I think is, is then, well, how can I capture
22:46
more value from these partnerships?
22:47
You might do a Co development or ask for a Co promotion option or
22:51
something like that. But now you're actually
22:53
capturing a little bit more value from the development
22:56
process. This becomes almost more part of
22:59
your pipeline as well as theirs as opposed to being a straight
23:02
up licensing type of deal. And ultimately with that
23:04
capital, with, excuse me, external capital coming in from
23:09
investors, then you're developing up your own pipeline
23:12
that then you can take farther and farther yourself, right.
23:15
And so I think our Genex has done this brilliantly.
23:21
You know, they are now multi multi multi billion market cap
23:25
company that started out with the technology platform and and
23:29
doing licensing deals. I think AB links is another
23:31
great example, both on opposite sides of the street in Ghent,
23:36
again in Belgium, but you know, another great example that
23:39
actually got bought for the asset that it developed
23:41
internally, even though it's signed hundreds of billions of
23:44
EUR worth of, of, of deals with, with pharmaceutical companies.
23:48
And so you know that, that mentality of, well, let's, what
23:52
are we using the deal for, right?
23:55
What are we trying to accomplish with these deals?
23:57
And then what, how is it that we capture the most value for the
24:01
longest period possible, which just happens to align with what
24:04
shareholders mostly want? I think is, is the, is the
24:08
benefit of that, of that deal making history.
24:11
And so I think you know that and, and, and I hope my, my VP
24:16
of business development would agree with you when I say this,
24:18
but I think also to understanding, not easy come
24:21
easy go. But you know what, sometimes you
24:23
do your absolute best. There's a change of employee on
24:28
the other side of the table and has nothing to do with your
24:31
asset, has nothing to do with all the hard work you put in.
24:34
But it, it, it unravels and you need to be able to pivot quickly
24:38
and have your backups and, and, and think through what that, you
24:41
know, pipeline of, of potential deals are in order to do a deal
24:45
because these things are not done overnight.
24:48
Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah.
24:51
And I imagine you've been part of those scenarios that you have
24:54
had to pivot quickly or at least had to learn from from those
24:58
kind of situations. Well, yeah.
25:00
And I think that, you know, the the best way to ensure that you
25:05
do deal is to have three or four interested parties.
25:10
And everybody always thinks 03 or 4 interesting parties I can
25:12
bid up. And, you know, we're going to
25:14
have this great auction and I'm going to triple the price, which
25:17
is possible, right? But but the reality is that, you
25:20
know, again, these things take time.
25:23
I was on a panel recently where I used the analogy, we're
25:27
selling Swiss cheese, right? Some people will look at a piece
25:32
of Swiss cheese and see cheese. Some people will look and just
25:35
see all the holes in empty space, right?
25:38
I mean, the reality is it's both and the assets that we have, the
25:41
companies that we have, right? And so there are going to be ups
25:44
and downs in this conversation. Some people will focus more on
25:47
the holes, some people will focus more on the cheese.
25:49
And you don't know quite at what point it's going to pop.
25:53
So you got to juggle these different balls in parallel.
25:56
And I'm, I'm mixing all my analogies there, but you know,
26:00
making all this stuff. Yeah, it's interesting.
26:01
Very. Well, but ultimately to be able
26:04
to to to to jump on the one when it's ready, try to maximize the
26:09
value that you can get and then move forward.
26:11
I think, you know, it's, it's hard to do, but that the, the,
26:16
the statement, anything between your best and worst case
26:19
scenario that closes is a win, which means your worst case
26:24
scenario is X and you got X + 0.1 and it closes.
26:29
You should be celebrating. Even though it's, it's hard
26:33
sometimes because particularly if we're chasing after that big
26:35
press release value that, you know, something, something
26:38
really, really large, you know, we, we don't necessarily feel
26:41
like celebrating, but it's still a win.
26:43
And that's why it's really important to understand why
26:45
you're doing it and what ultimately you will not accept
26:48
and you will walk away from. Yeah.
26:51
And then if we look ahead, what you guys are doing at kind over
26:55
what, what cube milestones or developments are you most
26:58
excited about? Our CCRA programs, the DT 7012
27:03
clinical trial is going to read out this year.
27:06
And so as you move into the back half of the year, you know we'll
27:09
be presenting some key data sets coming out of that trial that's
27:13
going to be transformative for us.
27:15
You know, we, we think the data set is evolving in the right
27:19
direction. I think that there's still
27:23
another 3-4 months of, of, of key data generation ahead of us.
27:26
So we're all waiting impatiently.
27:30
You know, this is not something operationally speaking that you
27:33
can move forward more quickly. The, you know, patients are
27:36
getting treated. We're waiting for the data to
27:38
come. But ultimately, you know, this
27:41
is really a big moment for the company.
27:44
Very, very excited for what the, the, the impact is going to be
27:48
for that particular asset. I think that, you know, we
27:51
continue as I mentioned to to move forward our Part 2 program,
27:55
the DT 9046. We think that that could be the
27:59
subject of a transaction between now and the end of the year,
28:02
which also is very, very exciting for us.
28:04
So this is the, you know, a case of now we have an asset that
28:08
we've taken forward ourselves. We defined what the target
28:10
product profile was. We have now generated the data
28:14
set that is attractive to strategic partners.
28:16
And so that's a little bit different than a platform deal
28:19
where often they're coming with the target and help to define
28:22
the profile in in combination. And I think lastly, so that's
28:26
obviously quite exciting for us as well.
28:28
And I think the last piece and you know, not to be under
28:32
undervalued is the platform itself.
28:34
It it continues to generate interest and I think that coming
28:38
back to what it is we're trying to do when we're doing these
28:42
deals, I think it's a great source of non dilutive revenue
28:45
to de risk ultimately, you know our own internal plans as we as
28:50
we move forward. So I think it's it's very
28:53
exciting year in 2026 and early 2027.
28:56
I think continued support from our investors is is helping us
29:00
to really kind of drive that execution.
29:03
But obviously the new investors that we're speaking with are
29:06
waiting for that key data set if you move over to the back half
29:08
of the year. Yeah, super excited for you
29:10
guys. Thanks so much for talking all
29:12
that through. It's a pleasure to have you on.
29:15
Lovely. And this, this brings us to the
29:17
final question, which is a question I asked all my guests.
29:21
If you if you could have dinner with any scientist or innovator,
29:24
past or present, who would it be and why?
29:27
Sure. So I think that, I mean, it's a
29:32
tough question because there are a lot of people I'd love to pick
29:35
their brain. I think ultimately I'll settle
29:37
on Democritus. So we got to go way back now.
29:41
Greek, excuse me, Greek philosopher.
29:44
He's the guy that kind of, well, a little bit of controversy,
29:47
whether he came up with it or he just elaborated on it, but the
29:50
atom. And so we're talking, you know,
29:52
hundreds of years BC, you know, this person kind of came up with
29:57
that concept. Look to the natural world.
29:59
He was also a mathematician, but ultimately he was known as the,
30:04
I think the the happy or smiling philosopher.
30:08
And so he really had kind of an outlook to kind of focus on
30:12
being satisfied with what you have, you know, like that.
30:15
I don't think he coined the phrase, but you know, comparison
30:17
is the thief of joy. So not, not to get too bogged
30:21
down in that, not as I would say dour as the Stoics, but you
30:24
know, still still kind of satisfied with what you have.
30:27
So really kind of focused on moderation, both in terms of,
30:32
you know, your your own personal life, but in terms of, you know,
30:35
not not having the pursuit of wealth is just being something
30:38
in its own right. And so I think that the
30:41
combination of the mind, that curiosity to look at the natural
30:46
world and then to be able to kind of piece together concepts
30:50
that stayed with us for thousands of years with that
30:53
that type of outlook. And I mean, I like Greek food as
30:56
well. So I guess that's a practical
30:58
reason too. Yeah, you hit both notes then.
31:02
I love that answer. That's so good.
31:04
Thank you so much for coming on, Sean.
31:05
It's been a pleasure. Excellent.
31:07
Likewise. Thank you very much.
31:08
And please everyone like and subscribe to the Bio Hub and
31:12
thank you again, Sean.