Latest / Coopers' Code / The Jedi Lawyer: When Star Wars Inspires Trial Lawyers

Transcript

The Jedi Lawyer: When Star Wars Inspires Trial Lawyers · Coopers' Code

• 0:00
  Howdy and welcome to the show. We thought we'd do something fun
• 0:03
  for this particular show. The day that this is dropping is
• 0:06
  is May 4th. And for those of you who are in
• 0:09
  the know, there is a bit of a tradition in terms of May the
• 0:12
  fourth be with you. A while back I wrote on the
• 0:17
  topic of the way of the Jedi lawyer, and so I, we thought
• 0:21
  that we would go down that path today.
• 0:25
  For way background, I, I grew up as a Star Wars kid.
• 0:29
  Probably no surprise to to some of you who've listened to the
• 0:31
  show in terms of an occasional bit of nerdiness.
• 0:34
  I had the Kenner dolls and, and, and various things in terms of
• 0:38
  playing with it. But the, the piece that most
• 0:41
  appealed to me in terms of the Jedi mindset was the aspect of
• 0:46
  the force. The, the idea that it was some
• 0:50
  form of, of almost spirit. And it was probably the closest
• 0:53
  I had in terms of, of coming to religion at that that time in my
• 0:57
  life. The idea that there is a force
• 1:00
  that that binds us and surrounds us in an energy field in terms
• 1:04
  of how we engage. I continue to believe that that
• 1:08
  is a way that I have embraced the trial life in terms of
• 1:13
  trying cases. There is definitely an energy
• 1:16
  when you're dealing with clients, dealing with opposing
• 1:20
  counsel, dealing with the energy within a courtroom and with
• 1:24
  jurors. And if you can truly tap into
• 1:27
  that energy in terms of absorbing it, feeling it around
• 1:30
  you, it's the kind of thing that can really impact one's ability
• 1:34
  to, to succeed and be fully aware of 1's surroundings.
• 1:39
  So a, a, a story that I share related to this.
• 1:42
  We were trying a case in Roseville years ago.
• 1:46
  And we, we did our closing argument.
• 1:49
  And I, I used a bit that I, I really enjoyed.
• 1:53
  I all great ideas tend to be plagiarized from others.
• 1:57
  I talked about how the defense had created, in essence, A Petri
• 2:00
  dish for negligence. And it was a, a piece that I had
• 2:04
  borrowed liberally from, from Bill Veen, my, my mentor, the
• 2:09
  topic I, I was unaware at at the time that I was presenting it,
• 2:13
  so offended the defense lawyer that he lost his focus when he
• 2:20
  got up and he did his closing. He, he was visibly angry when
• 2:24
  completely off script and spent the 1st 20 minutes raging about
• 2:28
  how inappropriate it was to compare its client's corporation
• 2:32
  to a, a, a, a Petri dish in terms of where, where bacteria
• 2:36
  gets cultured. We were able to talk to the
• 2:39
  jurors after that was done and they, they found his closing to
• 2:44
  be disorienting, his anger to be misplaced and that it really did
• 2:50
  not help his client very much in terms of, of that.
• 2:54
  So why do I bring that up when I'm talking about the way of the
• 2:57
  Jedi lawyer? There is this almost Zen mindset
• 3:02
  that can be very helpful when we are approaching our cases.
• 3:07
  So for those of you who don't know all the background on Star
• 3:12
  Wars and some of the thoughts related to it, the idea of Star
• 3:17
  Wars and the force and some of the other pieces were were
• 3:21
  liberally borrowed from Joseph Campbell, the the hero with 1000
• 3:25
  faces. And those also were based in in
• 3:29
  in large part on on young archetypes.
• 3:31
  So there are three principles that show up when you are
• 3:36
  embracing the the Jedi lawyer lifestyle that's embracing
• 3:40
  change. It's fighting smarter and and
• 3:43
  it's knowing your fear and not not having fear.
• 3:47
  Fear is something that is going to exist no matter what.
• 3:51
  What it is, is facing your fear, embracing it and going forward
• 3:56
  despite the, the fear that you have.
• 3:59
  I'll use an example. These solo episodes for me
• 4:02
  sometimes are, are quite, quite frightening.
• 4:05
  When I have guests on, I, I am able to shine a light on guests
• 4:09
  and help them provide wisdom and, and knowledge to our
• 4:14
  listeners. When it's just myself, I, I
• 4:16
  oftentimes have a, a bit of an imposter syndrome mindset and I,
• 4:20
  I worry about whether my contents could be well received.
• 4:23
  So right now I'm, I'm one of the ways I'm embracing my fears is
• 4:26
  sharing my fear with you. As we go down this path.
• 4:29
  When we talk about embracing and using change, nothing in life
• 4:34
  goes as expected. If you seek to control, you'll
• 4:37
  find yourself doomed to misery because controlling things is
• 4:41
  exceedingly hard and, and, and rarely satisfying.
• 4:44
  So an example that that I find really compelling in terms of
• 4:50
  embracing and and using change. Years ago we were in another
• 4:54
  trial and our client had suffered A partial foot
• 4:57
  amputation. And that what that meant is it
• 5:01
  was very difficult for him to, to, to toe off.
• 5:05
  When you're walking, as you, as you step forward, your foot goes
• 5:08
  down and you use your toe to propel yourself forward.
• 5:11
  He was missing the, the first half of his foot.
• 5:14
  And so his forward propulsion was, was really quite hard.
• 5:17
  It was hard on to move quickly and, and hard on the stairs.
• 5:20
  So in in the middle of his direct examination, the fire
• 5:26
  alarm went off at the courthouse.
• 5:28
  And this is down Norwalk out District in Los Angeles.
• 5:32
  We're on the 4th floor. And everyone was excused from
• 5:37
  the courtroom. All the jurors went out the the
• 5:40
  courtroom door, all the lawyers, all the staff, our client all at
• 5:45
  the same time. And the, the jurors watched as
• 5:49
  our client struggled to get down the stairs and struggled to get
• 5:53
  out the front door and, and was one of the last people out of
• 5:57
  the building. Now this was it.
• 5:58
  It was a, a drill. It was not a, a real emergency.
• 6:03
  And so while there was no risk in the moment, the jurors saw
• 6:08
  what happened with our client in terms of his mobility.
• 6:11
  And, and that actually became a pivot in the case.
• 6:15
  That became an opportunity and became something that that we
• 6:18
  talked about in closing argument and talked about how the jurors
• 6:23
  could see the stress on this individual who had always been
• 6:26
  very self-sufficient, self reliant.
• 6:28
  He had been a truck driver, social supporter for his family.
• 6:31
  How, how this was a huge issue for him in terms of, of his, his
• 6:38
  life safety and, and mobility. And then the jurors saw that and
• 6:43
  appreciated it. And, and that's an example of
• 6:45
  taking something that happens and embracing it instead of of
• 6:48
  getting concerned about what happens in the case Also listed
• 6:52
  fighting smarter and not harder. That is a common theme on the
• 6:58
  the contingent fee side. And, and what I mean by that, we
• 7:02
  contingent fee lawyers often times are faced with numerous
• 7:07
  lawyers on the other side. So a corporation can go out and
• 7:12
  hire as many lawyers as it feels is necessary and can throw as
• 7:16
  much force as it would like at us.
• 7:19
  So if one tries to outwork the other side, you can can find
• 7:23
  yourself sometimes in trouble. So that's that's an area we're
• 7:27
  finding smarter and not harder. Is is a way to think about
• 7:31
  embracing the case. An example when one has a 40
• 7:35
  page meet and confer letter. So the other side has decided
• 7:39
  that it's going to spend a lot of time and money going through
• 7:43
  line by line with discovery responses.
• 7:45
  These are areas, by the way, where the defense team can can
• 7:49
  really get in and and try to take us off of our path.
• 7:55
  So that's an opportunity to figure out a different solution
• 8:01
  to the 40 page meeting infer. So refuting it line by line
• 8:07
  turns into this hydra like problem where A-40 page meeting
• 8:12
  confer becomes a 60 page response becomes 120 page back
• 8:17
  and forth. So there are other ways to deal
• 8:20
  with this type of issue. We find using the phone
• 8:24
  sometimes works. Finding a way to cut through
• 8:28
  that, Gordian, not a A1 paragraph response of you're,
• 8:32
  you're seeking to just find problems with everything.
• 8:36
  We've provided you with all the information that that we have
• 8:38
  related to this. And and if you continue to
• 8:40
  believe that there's a deficiency in our responses,
• 8:43
  then we invite you to to engage with the court.
• 8:46
  There are simpler ways forward with almost every fight that
• 8:50
  gets brought to you on knowing your fear and facing your fear.
• 8:54
  I always use the example of of the fear related to, to solo
• 8:58
  episodes. There is another area where I
• 9:01
  have have found that acknowledging my fears has, has
• 9:04
  been very powerful. One of the things that always
• 9:08
  gave me the most consternation and, and most concern in trial
• 9:14
  was jury selection. And that was in in part because
• 9:20
  one has been going along doing motions and lemonade, getting to
• 9:23
  know the judge, working through issues.
• 9:26
  And, and then at a certain point that 75 to 150 person panel
• 9:30
  comes in and that the judge completes the judicial void
• 9:34
  here. And and then it's time for
• 9:37
  someone plaintiff Slayer to to get up and, and start asking
• 9:41
  questions. And, and that is a very cold
• 9:44
  room from the the, you know, the idea of of say working stage or
• 9:49
  working comedy. No one wants to talk.
• 9:53
  And so getting up and, and starting that conversation when
• 9:59
  you've got a bunch of people who are suspicious, who are familiar
• 10:03
  with billboard lawyers think that we are ambulance chasers
• 10:06
  and, and that we have start on the back foot.
• 10:09
  That fear of engaging that dialogue is, is something that
• 10:13
  that to this day, that is the moment when when my hands start
• 10:17
  to sweat a little bit. The way that I have addressed
• 10:20
  that is by embracing it, it's by getting up and saying to the
• 10:26
  panel, hi, I'm Miles Cooper, I represent Joe Smith.
• 10:31
  And we're going to be asking you some some very detailed
• 10:36
  questions. And and we're doing that because
• 10:38
  we want to make sure that we have the right jurors for this
• 10:41
  case. And because of that, we're going
• 10:43
  to be asking you questions that might ask you to expose things
• 10:47
  about yourself that that might be a little bit less
• 10:49
  comfortable. And if it's too uncomfortable,
• 10:51
  we ask you to let us know and we'll talk to the judge and see
• 10:55
  if we can take that up in private.
• 10:57
  But on, on the more global things like, Hey, how you doing
• 11:01
  talk about yourself in front of a bunch of strangers?
• 11:04
  It's a big ask. So I'm, I'm going to let you
• 11:07
  know that as we go into this, this is the most challenging
• 11:11
  part for me in, in trial. I, I, when I get up here, I have
• 11:14
  a lot of fear because getting up and talking in front of a bunch
• 11:19
  of strangers is, is concerning to me.
• 11:21
  So I'm letting you know my fears because I wouldn't ask you to
• 11:24
  expose anything without exposing a little bit myself too.
• 11:27
  So with that in mind, and then I go into talking to, to some of
• 11:31
  the jurors, there are different ways that people approach things
• 11:36
  that had I've found has worked for me that that actually was
• 11:39
  something that came up through a Jerry Spence program.
• 11:41
  And it, and it, it's in essence, taking the thing that is most
• 11:44
  concerning for you or, or the, the thing that is the biggest
• 11:47
  weakness for you and turning it into a strength in terms of
• 11:50
  being open and vulnerable and transparent when working with
• 11:53
  the jury as you go forward, as we go forward, this, this idea
• 11:58
  of a Zen mindset, this idea of being calm, cool, collected,
• 12:02
  embracing change. It, it is a, a practice.
• 12:05
  It is not perfection. I, I have talked with various
• 12:09
  folks about the idea of, of this perfectly balanced Zen monk or,
• 12:14
  or Jedi warrior who, who never loses their cool, who's always
• 12:19
  able to face whatever is thrown at them.
• 12:21
  And, and the reality is that working on this for ourselves,
• 12:26
  this, this Jedi lawyer practice it, it's an asymptotic curve.
• 12:31
  Or if, if you use it a, a, a surfing analogy, you know, you
• 12:35
  might catch that perfect wave and then there will be the next
• 12:39
  wave. And that might not be perfect.
• 12:42
  In the rowing world where I, I came from, you were always
• 12:47
  seeking to have that perfect stroke.
• 12:50
  The idea of the perfect stroke was, you know, dropping your
• 12:53
  blade in just the right angle, just the right time, providing
• 12:56
  just the right force on it. And, and you were lucky if in
• 13:00
  the course of your career you got a few perfect strokes.
• 13:03
  And even if you reach the point where you're getting perfect
• 13:05
  stroke after perfect stroke, each time you got a new stroke,
• 13:10
  there was the opportunity for perfection in that, that new
• 13:13
  approach. So when I, when I say this is in
• 13:17
  practice, is, is a practice and not perfection, There will be
• 13:20
  things that will throw you off your game every day.
• 13:24
  Most likely you will walk out and, and think that your day is
• 13:31
  going to be just fine and, and, and fine that there is a parking
• 13:35
  ticket on your car and suddenly you're upset about something
• 13:39
  that, that you have no, no control over in terms of the
• 13:43
  parking ticket. The thing that you do have
• 13:45
  control over is, is your response.
• 13:48
  So you want to make sure that as you're approaching life, you,
• 13:53
  you just embrace everything and, and acknowledge that you are not
• 13:56
  perfect along the way. That for me is, is, is the macro
• 14:01
  overview of, of the way of the the Jedi lawyer.
• 14:05
  I hope you enjoyed this little snack bite sized podcast for May
• 14:10
  4th and may the fourth be with you.
• 14:15
  To all of you listening out there, thanks for listening.
• 14:18
  Please e-mail us at podcast at Coopers dot law with questions,
• 14:21
  comments, feedback and suggestions for who we should
• 14:24
  have on the show. Like what you heard?
• 14:26
  Share us with a colleague and leave us a Foster review on your
• 14:29
  podcast platform of choice. To all of you doing justice out
• 14:32
  there, happy hunting.