Latest / Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections / Networking Unleashed: S1E54 An Interview with Gisele Marcus and Michael A Forman, Public Speaker

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Networking Unleashed: S1E54 An Interview with Gisele Marcus and Michael A Forman, Public Speaker · Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections

• 0:16
  Welcome back to Networking Unleashed, building
• 0:19
  profitable connections. I'm your host, Michael
• 0:23
  Foreman, speaker, strategist, and believer that
• 0:27
  the right conversation can change your future.
• 0:30
  Today's episode is a game changer. If you've
• 0:33
  ever felt awkward walking into a room full of
• 0:36
  strangers and unsure of how to make the first
• 0:39
  connection, this one's for you. My guest is a
• 0:43
  true master at taking the fear out of networking,
• 0:46
  and replacing it with a simple, powerful, practical
• 0:50
  step that can move you towards your next, whether
• 0:54
  that's a new opportunity, partnership, or breakthrough.
• 0:58
  Get ready for real talk, actionable advice, and
• 1:02
  the kind of insight that turns handshakes into
• 1:05
  high -impact connections. Let's dive in. Giselle?
• 1:10
  How are you today? And welcome to the show. And
• 1:14
  if you don't mind, give us a little bit about
• 1:16
  your background and what you like to talk about.
• 1:19
  Sure. Michael, thank you so much for having me.
• 1:21
  Glad to be here. A little about my background.
• 1:24
  I grew up in New York City, raised by a... My
• 1:30
  parents separated when I was single digits. Of
• 1:33
  course, I was single digits. I was primarily
• 1:34
  raised by my mother and my grandmother in New
• 1:37
  York City, in Harlem. The old Harlem, not the
• 1:39
  new. And my mom always had me reaching for excellence,
• 1:44
  right? So everything, I'll never forget like
• 1:46
  growing up, if I would get a hundred on the test,
• 1:49
  I would be able to go to this little store in
• 1:51
  our neighborhood and get like a little prize.
• 1:53
  And even once she took the incentive away, I
• 1:56
  still wanted to be a superstar in terms of whatever
• 1:59
  it was that I was doing. When I, after college
• 2:04
  and all the things, she would always tell me,
• 2:07
  when you go to work, keep your head down, be
• 2:09
  the smartest person in the room. This is how
• 2:12
  you get promoted. And I was like, I get that.
• 2:14
  And then out of college, I go and work at what
• 2:18
  was Anderson Consulting, it's Accenture now.
• 2:20
  And I never forget the first time when I saw
• 2:24
  a networking opportunity, someone had wheeled
• 2:27
  out like a bar after work, it's like a Friday.
• 2:30
  And I was like. clutching my pearls. I was like,
• 2:33
  oh my God, people are drinking at work. I can't
• 2:35
  be seen doing that. So I'm like trying to be
• 2:37
  on the peripheries so that no one sees me. And
• 2:40
  I'm trying not to be seen with a drink in my
• 2:43
  hand. And then also numerous occasions where
• 2:46
  employees would say, hey, we're going out after
• 2:49
  work. You want to join us? I'm like, no, I'm
• 2:50
  so busy. I have so much to do. I can't, I don't
• 2:52
  have the time. How do they have the time for
• 2:54
  this? I just didn't see it was important. And
• 2:56
  then over time, Michael, I learned. that what
• 2:59
  my mother told me wasn't exactly accurate about
• 3:03
  you get the promotion by keeping your head down
• 3:05
  and doing the work. I was like, I saw a lot of
• 3:07
  people getting promotions, but I didn't see them
• 3:09
  having their head down necessarily. So just on
• 3:13
  my career journey, I learned that networking
• 3:16
  is not a bad word and that it can help take you
• 3:19
  from here to there. But I learned it at a late,
• 3:23
  I feel like a late age. By the time I was 39
• 3:25
  is like when it really cemented in. And because
• 3:28
  of that, I enjoy sharing what I've learned with
• 3:31
  others. I have a TEDx on the topic called Networking
• 3:34
  Made Easy. And I just figured, hey, I'm going
• 3:36
  to spread good cheer like you do in regard to
• 3:39
  the hows of networking with practical tips that
• 3:42
  people can use to really take the stigmatism
• 3:44
  and the fear out of it. Fantastic. And I can
• 3:48
  understand, first of all, I come from New York.
• 3:51
  So I understand it. I come from Rockland County.
• 3:55
  It's about 30 miles north of New York City. And
• 3:58
  I spent my life, I moved down to Georgia about
• 4:00
  seven years ago. It's a whole different life
• 4:03
  down here. But I find that the networking that
• 4:06
  you were talking about, it's true, your mother
• 4:09
  was right. Okay, to a certain point, she was
• 4:13
  to get you started to get you into the business
• 4:15
  world. But knowing what we know, it's the social
• 4:19
  activity, also keeping it in check. But that's
• 4:23
  what helps get you ahead. So let me just start
• 4:26
  off by asking. What's the most unconventional
• 4:29
  networking strategy you've ever used that actually
• 4:33
  worked? Unconventional that actually worked.
• 4:39
  I would say the most unconventional is recognizing
• 4:46
  people by doing something different about birthdays.
• 4:56
  And what I mean by that, with social media now,
• 4:58
  your birthday is everywhere. Facebook, LinkedIn,
• 5:02
  et cetera, to the point that it's almost overwhelming,
• 5:06
  right? That I can't even keep up with it all.
• 5:09
  And what I came up with, I was like, well, the
• 5:12
  field is really crowded. So I started doing these
• 5:16
  half yearly birthday acknowledgements. So if
• 5:21
  your birthday is in December, I'm reaching out
• 5:24
  to you in June and I'm saying happy half yearly
• 5:27
  birthday, Michael Foreman. And when you do that,
• 5:31
  all of a sudden it's unconventional because first
• 5:33
  of all, Michael, who's doing that? So it gives
• 5:36
  you the opportunity to actually stand out. And
• 5:40
  if you can be consistent in doing that, people
• 5:44
  come to expect it. And it's a way to submit yourself
• 5:48
  into the minds of others. And then to actually
• 5:52
  help make that automatic and automated, there
• 5:55
  is this application that I use called Send Out
• 5:59
  Cards, where you can actually program it to send
• 6:03
  cards. You don't even have to think about the
• 6:06
  day. It just does it automatically for you. So
• 6:08
  I think also some people sometimes forget that
• 6:11
  networking is not just the physical, but sometimes
• 6:14
  you can use automation to help you as well. I
• 6:18
  love that you send out cards. I used handywritten
• 6:21
  .com. Okay, it's the same concept, but handywritten
• 6:25
  .com is one that I use for my thank you notes.
• 6:29
  And I always use a thank you note for every event
• 6:33
  coordinator or something else because that gives
• 6:36
  that homey touch. That's part of my follow -up
• 6:40
  that I always suggest because I have a secret
• 6:43
  sauce for the follow -up. And I tell everybody
• 6:46
  what it is. But I raise the possibility of getting
• 6:52
  a response, positive or negative. But I raised
• 6:56
  the possibility of a response to about 75%. Yeah,
• 7:01
  so it's really incredible. So we'll go over the
• 7:04
  secret sauce afterwards. Let me ask you another
• 7:07
  question. How do you recommend people overcome
• 7:10
  their initial networking anxiety or fear of rejection?
• 7:16
  Sure. This is what I tell individuals. And this
• 7:20
  can be, it's what I tell introverts, but it works
• 7:23
  for anyone. And one way to overcome the fear
• 7:28
  is to set a goal in mind. I happen to live here
• 7:33
  in St. Louis. It's a very generous region. So
• 7:37
  we have a lot of meal events, dinner events,
• 7:41
  receptions on the front end. And people always
• 7:44
  gathering. And sometimes it can be overwhelming
• 7:48
  when you see groups of people that appear to
• 7:50
  know each other that are chatting it up. And
• 7:52
  then you're like on the outside looking in. And
• 7:56
  what I tell people in that situation to take
• 7:59
  the fear out, find someone like yourself, right?
• 8:03
  So the other person that's in the room who isn't
• 8:06
  talking to someone. It's thinking the same thing
• 8:08
  you're thinking. Oh my gosh, don't want to do
• 8:10
  this. Fearful of doing this. But when you're
• 8:14
  approaching someone that's in the same situation,
• 8:16
  it's not as difficult. And I can understand how
• 8:19
  it's difficult to approach a group of people
• 8:20
  who seem user -friendly with each other. So that's
• 8:23
  one thing that I would suggest. The second thing
• 8:26
  is in these type of situations to take the fear
• 8:30
  out, give yourself a goal. Maybe that is you
• 8:35
  meet two people. three people. And that's it.
• 8:39
  And once you've done it, be done with it. And
• 8:43
  then you can just check the box and enjoy the
• 8:45
  rest of your evening the way that you want to
• 8:47
  enjoy it. But I think the important piece about
• 8:49
  that is if you focus on that two or three, then
• 8:54
  what's going to be important is what you were
• 8:56
  getting into before we were talking about handywritten
• 8:59
  .com is to make sure that you keep connected
• 9:02
  with that person somehow. We can talk about strategies
• 9:05
  to do that because once you've made that introduction,
• 9:08
  once you've broken that ice, do not be a one
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  -hit wonder. Make that work for you. And I feel
• 9:15
  if you do that at every event, you know, you
• 9:18
  will build up a network, particularly if you
• 9:20
  follow up with them. That's very true. And I
• 9:23
  always feel that the follow -up is probably more
• 9:26
  important than even meeting the person, but it's
• 9:29
  how you follow up. So when you first approach
• 9:32
  that person in the networking event, that's like
• 9:35
  you. Think about something other than the networking
• 9:39
  event, other than, oh, something, Giselle, that's
• 9:43
  a beautiful blouse you have on. Say, oh, where'd
• 9:45
  you get that? And just break the ice that way.
• 9:48
  And you'll have a small talk, a laugh. and say,
• 9:52
  hey, who are you looking for around here? Oh,
• 9:54
  I'm just looking for X, Y, Z. You know, what
• 9:57
  do you do? And have them start talking about
• 10:00
  themselves because you and I both know that people
• 10:04
  love to talk about themselves. And I have a very,
• 10:08
  have something called F -O -R -M that I remember
• 10:13
  whenever I'm trying to build rapport with somebody.
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  It's family, occupation. recreation, and a message.
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  I just think of that word form. And it goes with
• 10:27
  foreman. Isn't that interesting? And it goes
• 10:29
  with foreman. That's right. So it's very easy
• 10:31
  for me to remember. Okay. So how about first
• 10:36
  impressions? What are your top tips for making
• 10:40
  a memorable first impression at networking events?
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  So one of those, it gets back to what you're
• 10:48
  sharing that people like to talk about themselves.
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  So one way to make an impression, if you're at
• 10:54
  an event where, because sometimes this does happen,
• 10:57
  where they give you a list of the people that
• 10:59
  are going to be there, right? So one way to make
• 11:02
  a great impression is to take that list and see
• 11:05
  if there's someone that you're interested in
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  meeting. Then do what I call double click on
• 11:09
  that person. Go. The internet is our friend.
• 11:12
  There was a time when we didn't have this, but
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  now that we do, use it to your advantage. So
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  I'll go there, find out information about the
• 11:20
  people that I want to meet. So maybe I pick three
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  or four and make sure I have their photo, look
• 11:26
  for them and introduce myself. And individuals
• 11:31
  love nothing more than to know something about
• 11:34
  them. What a way to make an impression because
• 11:37
  you've actually done some homework. So I would
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  say that's one way to make an impression. The
• 11:42
  other is what you were saying, Michael, in terms
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  of when you meet individuals. I like that form,
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  the family occupation, recreation message. And
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  what was the M for? Message. A message that you
• 11:56
  can get onto the same level as them. Correct.
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  So what you want to do is we, surprisingly, you'd
• 12:05
  be surprised that you. very likely have something
• 12:10
  in common with the other person. It's just a
• 12:13
  matter of actually uncovering what that is. So
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  to your point about the first impression and
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  having these, what I call conversation starters,
• 12:23
  so to speak. And one thing you have in common,
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  you're at the same event, right? So what brought
• 12:29
  you here? So that's somewhere, something that
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  you can talk about. I like the recreation part.
• 12:35
  What types of things do you enjoy? And once you
• 12:39
  know these things about other people, it then
• 12:42
  allows you to focus in on that thing and ask
• 12:47
  them particular questions about that. Make them
• 12:50
  know that you are sincerely and authentically
• 12:53
  interested in them as a person. I think that
• 12:56
  is a good way to make an initial impression because
• 12:59
  people will remember that. Oh, I am into working
• 13:03
  with youth and sports, for example. And if I
• 13:08
  had a conversation with you about that, you'd
• 13:10
  probably remember that. And people are being
• 13:12
  bombarded with so much information today. So
• 13:15
  in order for you to break that ice and make that
• 13:18
  impression, it needs to be something that they're
• 13:20
  going to remember. And it's more likely they're
• 13:22
  going to remember something related to something
• 13:25
  that they enjoy and that they love. And if you're
• 13:27
  on the same page. That's very good. Very astute.
• 13:30
  Very good. I have to tell you, when you brought
• 13:33
  up youth sports. That's usually what I try to
• 13:36
  get the people, depending on their age, what
• 13:39
  I get them to because I was a baseball manager
• 13:42
  for 16 years. I was an umpire for three years.
• 13:46
  I coached three years of football, basketball,
• 13:49
  because for my children, I did that. So if I
• 13:53
  can get them to the youth sports. I can have
• 13:56
  them talk all day long and I can give them something
• 13:58
  intelligent, but that's what I try to do. And
• 14:02
  one other thing that you said was you have to
• 14:05
  be authentic, right? Because what happens if
• 14:09
  you meet this person three months from now in
• 14:13
  a different environment, are you the same person?
• 14:16
  Are you as authentic? And if you're not, that
• 14:20
  just shoots you in the foot right there. And
• 14:22
  that'll, again, goes to your follow -up and how
• 14:26
  important it is and how you do it. Let's move
• 14:30
  the conversation a little bit to online marketing
• 14:33
  or online networking. How has digital networking
• 14:35
  changed the game and what are some best practices
• 14:39
  for virtual connections? So it's changed the
• 14:43
  game in that it helps you connect with people
• 14:48
  faster than you could in person in terms of like
• 14:51
  volume. So that's the plus. And it's so great
• 14:55
  you're asking me this because we just did a podcast.
• 14:58
  I'm in higher education. And at my institution,
• 15:02
  we just had a session about networking specifically
• 15:06
  related to online. So I'm so glad you're asking
• 15:08
  this question. And one way, so it changes the
• 15:13
  game in that it increases the number of people
• 15:15
  you can get to know. However, let's go back to
• 15:18
  your word authentic. Is it authentic? If you're
• 15:23
  going after quantity and you don't know the people
• 15:27
  that you're connecting to, I would suffice to
• 15:31
  say that it's not necessarily an authentic connection.
• 15:35
  And if you saw that person walking down the street,
• 15:39
  would you be able to have a dialogue, know something
• 15:44
  about them? You probably wouldn't. And I have
• 15:47
  to say, what gets my goat is this. LinkedIn is
• 15:50
  a platform that many of us use. People I subscribe,
• 15:53
  whenever you connect to someone, send them a
• 15:56
  note if you don't know who they are. Because
• 15:58
  it happens to me all the time. People will get
• 16:00
  linked. Send me a note. I say, oh, nothing. Just
• 16:03
  say connect. And then I look and I see, oh, they're
• 16:06
  connected to 20 people that I know. So in my
• 16:08
  head, I'm thinking maybe I know them, don't remember
• 16:11
  them. And I don't want to say something that
• 16:15
  might turn them off. So then I go to two or three
• 16:18
  people, shared contacts. I say, hey. Jim Smith
• 16:22
  reached out to me in LinkedIn. Tell me how you
• 16:26
  know them or how you know them. Maybe that's
• 16:28
  how I know them. And they say, oh, I don't know
• 16:30
  that person. That is not helpful at all. So I
• 16:35
  pride myself on, in LinkedIn, I would say a good
• 16:40
  95 % of the people I'm connected to, I'm going
• 16:43
  to know something about them beyond the fact
• 16:46
  that I'm connected to them. And let me tell you
• 16:48
  a secret, Michael, you can't tell everybody,
• 16:50
  but let me tell you, you and your listeners,
• 16:52
  giving you this for free. And that is what I
• 16:56
  do is I always make sure in that first LinkedIn
• 17:00
  connection that I talk about how we met. For
• 17:05
  example, I just finished teaching an executive
• 17:07
  education class earlier this week. So there were
• 17:10
  people who just linked and I remembered them.
• 17:11
  So when I responded, I accepted and I said, it
• 17:14
  was so great. having you in my inclusive leadership
• 17:18
  course in executive ed yesterday. So at least
• 17:21
  that starts with whenever I have to go back to
• 17:24
  that person, I know how we met. Then I look and
• 17:28
  see who else do we have in common? Ah, I see
• 17:32
  so -and -so. I know them this way. So just trying
• 17:36
  to further solidify. And then I often add, based
• 17:41
  on what you do, let me know. how I might be helpful.
• 17:46
  I'm in the higher ed space. I work in inclusive
• 17:49
  leadership. However, I come from corporate, Fortune
• 17:53
  250 companies, being a P &L owner where I ran
• 17:56
  businesses up to $800 million. So if there's
• 17:58
  anything that I can do to help you, let me know.
• 18:01
  Or if there's someone in my network who can be
• 18:03
  helpful to you, let me know. So it might be that.
• 18:05
  Or depending on if it's someone who I want to
• 18:08
  further advance the relationship with, I may
• 18:10
  say, how about a virtual coffee? Or how about
• 18:14
  a virtual tea, whatever your favorite daytime
• 18:16
  beverage is. So that's how I believe that the
• 18:19
  online networking kind of changes the game. But
• 18:23
  I think it's up to us. It gets you so far, but
• 18:26
  I think it's up to you to make sure that relationship
• 18:28
  is authentic and to make sure that everyone that
• 18:32
  you add to your network, that you're adding value
• 18:35
  to them as well. It's really all about a two
• 18:37
  -way relationship. Any relationship that's one
• 18:40
  way, you can't use the word relationship. That's
• 18:45
  true. And you keep going back to the follow -up
• 18:47
  of the person. And we keep stressing that the
• 18:51
  follow -up is just as important. And here's a
• 18:54
  little tip that I give my listeners probably
• 18:56
  every other podcast. But at a networking event,
• 19:00
  when you finally get their business card, on
• 19:03
  the back of their business card, write down the
• 19:05
  date, the name of the function, and something
• 19:08
  you talked about. because that will help you
• 19:11
  in your follow -up. Now, I was in the mortgage
• 19:14
  industry. I used to go to networking events.
• 19:16
  I used to come home with a shoebox filled with
• 19:19
  business cards. And I said, look how good I did.
• 19:22
  And I'm like, I didn't do well at all, okay?
• 19:25
  But now if you go to a three or four hour networking
• 19:28
  event, come home with about 15 or 20 business
• 19:32
  cards, but those are actually people you connected
• 19:34
  with that you're gonna follow up with. And when
• 19:38
  you follow up using LinkedIn, I'm a big LinkedIn
• 19:40
  user, but you always find an article or something
• 19:44
  and attach it and say, look, I thought you might
• 19:48
  be interested in this. So anyway, yep. So that
• 19:53
  falls right into my next question of follow -up
• 19:56
  strategies. What's your foolproof method for
• 20:01
  following up? after making a new connection.
• 20:04
  You went into that, but delve into it a little
• 20:06
  bit further. Sure. So this might be considered
• 20:11
  old hat, what I'm going to say I do. And I welcome
• 20:15
  you or any other listener to tell me how I can
• 20:19
  be more efficient at doing it. So what I do,
• 20:21
  because I know if I don't calendar it or write
• 20:24
  it somewhere, it's not going to happen, right?
• 20:27
  So what I do, I actually keep an Excel spreadsheet.
• 20:32
  And as I meet individuals, I create a cadence
• 20:36
  in terms of how often I'm going to get in touch
• 20:39
  with them. So say I say I'm going to touch base
• 20:42
  with this person quarterly. I'll put that in
• 20:45
  my spreadsheet. And then I'll even, when I first
• 20:47
  meet them, talk about how I'm going to do that.
• 20:49
  So therefore I don't have to think about it when
• 20:51
  the time comes. So maybe when I get in touch
• 20:54
  with them three months from now, it may be that
• 20:57
  I know something that they're interested in.
• 21:00
  And like you, and you mentioned the article,
• 21:02
  that's another thing I like to do too. Google
• 21:05
  can be your friend or any other type of search
• 21:08
  engine. And you can put in whatever that thing
• 21:10
  is. Like I had a mentor who was into like triathlons.
• 21:14
  So I would put, and he would do them all over
• 21:16
  the world. So I would actually put that into
• 21:19
  a Google search and then have it let me know
• 21:22
  about these triathlons that are going on in places
• 21:24
  around the world. And then I would just put myself
• 21:27
  a note to say, if I haven't gotten any lately,
• 21:31
  to just go online and see, are there any going
• 21:33
  on abroad? And then I can just send a note and
• 21:35
  say, hey, I see this is going on in Spain. Are
• 21:39
  you participating? So that might be the first.
• 21:42
  The second might be the half yearly birthday,
• 21:46
  right? The third may be, how about you pick up
• 21:53
  the phone? I recognize that it's so easy these
• 21:57
  days to text, to email, but I do believe that
• 22:01
  nothing replaces just a voice. And even if you
• 22:04
  leave a voice note by way of text. It's a little
• 22:10
  different. So something a little bit different.
• 22:12
  Just say, hey, I was thinking about you, hadn't
• 22:14
  talked to you lately. And then maybe that fourth
• 22:16
  one is a virtual coffee. So I always just try
• 22:19
  to lay out a cadence in terms of the how. So
• 22:22
  when that time comes, I'm like, oh, what do I
• 22:25
  do? What do I say? What have I done in the past?
• 22:27
  Then I have a record also of what I have done.
• 22:31
  Have you looked at CRMs? I have, but I haven't
• 22:36
  found one that I feel is simple enough. Talk
• 22:40
  to me, Michael. I use HubSpot. OK, now they have
• 22:46
  a free version so you can get used to it and
• 22:48
  see all the makings of it. But look into HubSpot
• 22:51
  because that's what I use and it serves me pretty
• 22:55
  well. And that serves me well because of my follow
• 23:00
  up. OK, and how I follow up with the people.
• 23:03
  And it has tasks. so that I set a task. So all
• 23:08
  I do, the first thing every day is I go and I
• 23:10
  set, I see all my tasks that I have to do for
• 23:13
  that day. And it just keeps going and going.
• 23:16
  So that is one that I would strongly suggest.
• 23:20
  You heard it here first, listeners. You heard
• 23:23
  it here first. Okay, quality versus quantity.
• 23:28
  How do you balance building a large network with
• 23:31
  cultivating meaningful relationships? The word
• 23:37
  would just be intention. So I feel that if you
• 23:40
  have quantity, it's difficult to be intentional
• 23:45
  because it's too many people with which to keep
• 23:49
  up with. So the quality component comes out of
• 23:53
  the, I would call it the care and feeding that
• 23:55
  you actually give to your network by ensuring
• 24:00
  that they see that you see them, so to speak.
• 24:04
  Quantity. If you are going for quantity, I guess
• 24:09
  there are ways that you can make that work. So
• 24:11
  say, for example, if these individuals are all
• 24:16
  interested in a similar type of pastime, maybe
• 24:20
  something like a meetup, you know, where you
• 24:24
  invite these individuals and add others. So I
• 24:27
  think from getting at big groups, if you find
• 24:30
  something that everyone has a commonality around.
• 24:34
  and structure something around, that could be
• 24:36
  a way to get at quantity just based on a factor
• 24:39
  or two of interest. But I would suffice to say
• 24:44
  that's still a form of quality because you're
• 24:47
  actually giving them something of value. I think
• 24:52
  the quantity, I haven't seen someone, you tell
• 24:55
  me, Michael, of how you make quantity successful
• 25:00
  in terms of networking. Quantity really goes,
• 25:05
  I equate that to customers. Okay. I have three
• 25:10
  widgets. You should buy them. You bought them.
• 25:13
  That's a customer. Okay. Ever since the pandemic,
• 25:16
  we've gone to relationships rather than customers.
• 25:20
  So that's where my mortgage thing was. I came
• 25:25
  back with a shoebox full of cards. That was the
• 25:28
  quantity. Now, the quality is where I've evolved
• 25:33
  to, and that's the 15 or 20 business cards. And
• 25:37
  I think you'll get so much further when you go
• 25:40
  quality over quantity. Now, that's not for everybody,
• 25:46
  but for a very good salesperson that sells X,
• 25:51
  Y, or Z, quantity, that's perfect. But something
• 25:55
  for you and I, quality is a whole different ball
• 25:58
  of wax. Okay, let's go a little bit to personal
• 26:01
  brand. How important is personal branding in
• 26:04
  networking and how can one effectively communicate
• 26:09
  their unique value? Good one. Personal branding
• 26:13
  is also important. I think if we go back to your
• 26:16
  question before about making a memorable impression,
• 26:19
  branding is one way by which to do that. So for
• 26:22
  example, I'm admiring your tagline, building
• 26:25
  profitable connections, for example. I'm like,
• 26:29
  oh. wow, I can actually, I'll remember that,
• 26:32
  right? If I need something or a service that
• 26:36
  would align with that. I worked with a marketing
• 26:40
  company to help me with my branding. And when
• 26:43
  I think of all the things that I've done and
• 26:46
  how I combine what I do around inclusive leadership
• 26:49
  at work, pulling in this networking expert piece
• 26:53
  as well, at first I thought they were so diametrically
• 26:57
  opposed. Oh, it's two different things. And by
• 26:59
  working with a marketing person, she helped me
• 27:03
  see a way to pull it together and came up with
• 27:07
  the tagline, I make organizations hum. And I
• 27:11
  said, that's perfect because it aligns with inclusive
• 27:15
  leadership at the office. It aligns with my TEDx
• 27:19
  on networking. And it aligns with when I think
• 27:23
  about when I was in corporate and I've been like
• 27:26
  a five -time general manager running businesses.
• 27:29
  And I had a lot of success around turning around
• 27:32
  failed relationships. So I make organizations
• 27:36
  hum, fits there. You know, in higher education,
• 27:40
  I teach all about inclusive leadership, belonging.
• 27:44
  Again, that's really, it's people, right, that
• 27:47
  make organizations work. So again, I make organizations
• 27:52
  hum. When I meet individuals and they introduce
• 27:56
  themselves, I say, you know, I'm Giselle Marcus.
• 27:58
  I am in higher education. I teach around inclusive
• 28:02
  leadership. And also networking is something
• 28:07
  that along the way I've learned and have a TEDx
• 28:10
  on that topic. And really, I work at the intersection
• 28:13
  of inclusive leadership and networking, putting
• 28:16
  the two together. And my tagline is I make organizations
• 28:19
  hum. And oftentimes people say, oh, I really
• 28:22
  like that. And if you go to LinkedIn, you'll
• 28:24
  see that there as well. I think it helps you
• 28:26
  be memorable. So it's important to brand yourself.
• 28:29
  It's important to have that 30 second pitch so
• 28:32
  that people can understand what it is that you
• 28:35
  do and they can help identify how they can help
• 28:38
  you and vice versa. If they have a brand as well.
• 28:42
  That's very good. And the 30 second elevator
• 28:45
  speech. Now, when I lived in New York, I had
• 28:48
  two networking groups that I created. I created
• 28:52
  two, one in New York, one in New Jersey, and
• 28:54
  both had about 30 businesses in each. But the
• 28:57
  whole idea with that branding, with your elevator
• 29:01
  speech, is to not say the whole thing all at
• 29:06
  once. Say the first half and just make the other
• 29:09
  person say, what do you mean by that? What about
• 29:14
  that? And once you get them into the conversation,
• 29:16
  then you can expand your 30 second speech and
• 29:20
  go into further what you talk about. So that's
• 29:23
  all it is. You're just trying to grab the attention
• 29:25
  of them and have them ask you a question. Once
• 29:30
  they ask you a question, you really have them.
• 29:33
  I like that because really what you're saying
• 29:35
  is you're able then to make it more of a dialogue
• 29:37
  than a monologue. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay.
• 29:43
  networking mistakes. You ready? Ready. What are
• 29:47
  some common networking mistakes that you've observed
• 29:51
  and how can listeners avoid them? One of them
• 29:56
  is asking people for things and you don't know
• 30:00
  them from a can of paint. And if you don't know
• 30:03
  what I mean by that, that means if you don't
• 30:04
  know the person, you probably shouldn't be asking
• 30:07
  them for a favor, right? So sometimes People
• 30:11
  have not yet done what we're talking about, developed
• 30:14
  an authentic relationship, right? So let's say,
• 30:18
  for example, someone wants to get their child
• 30:20
  into some esteemed private school, right? And
• 30:25
  you know how hard that can be, right? The list
• 30:28
  along and you meet someone who has their child
• 30:31
  at that school. You just met that person and
• 30:35
  you grab their card. and you're on the fly at
• 30:39
  a networking event, you reach out to them afterwards
• 30:43
  and you say, hey, I met you at XYZ event. Hey,
• 30:47
  I love, I know you're a kid at such and such.
• 30:49
  I'd love to get my kid in there. Can you help
• 30:50
  me with that? Do not ask people for favors when
• 30:53
  you don't know them. So I think that's a networking
• 30:55
  mistake because if you do that, I'm looking at
• 30:57
  you with one raised eyebrow. So I think that's
• 31:01
  a networking mistake. The other networking mistake.
• 31:05
  is when you're reaching out to people that you
• 31:07
  don't know, if you don't give them a reason to
• 31:11
  grab onto why they should be interested, I think
• 31:15
  that's a flaw. If you're going to connect with
• 31:17
  someone, tell them why. And it could just be
• 31:20
  something complimentary. Hey, I see that you
• 31:23
  and I have a commonality in terms of we like
• 31:27
  purple elephants. Give them something. I saw
• 31:32
  you speak at. And I thought what you had to say
• 31:35
  was amazing. Give them something. So those are
• 31:39
  the two, what I would call, no, I add one more,
• 31:42
  three, the threesome here. The third one is just
• 31:46
  trying to collect as many contacts as you can.
• 31:51
  This speed dating, I would call it, right? Speed
• 31:55
  dating where you're just gathering information,
• 31:58
  but you're not doing anything with it. And then.
• 32:01
  Six months later, you decide that you're going
• 32:04
  to open the shoebox with all these cards in it,
• 32:06
  not knowing how you know this person and just
• 32:08
  aimlessly reach out to them, not knowing how
• 32:11
  you met them. So I think those are three fatal
• 32:13
  flaws of networking. Michael. Very good. There
• 32:18
  are so many points in all of those mistakes.
• 32:21
  which I've made. Okay. I've made all of those
• 32:24
  same mistakes and I've learned from them and
• 32:27
  I've learned what not to do, but there is so
• 32:29
  much I can't even go into it now. But we're going
• 32:33
  to save the listeners time, right? Save the listeners
• 32:36
  time. Okay. Because there's way too much for
• 32:39
  me to say. Can you share a specific example of
• 32:43
  how networking led to a significant professional
• 32:45
  milestone for you or a client? I can. So this
• 32:51
  is, yes, this is wow. Every time I think about
• 32:54
  it, I get goosebumps. So when I was working at
• 32:58
  Johnson Controls, I was a general manager and
• 33:00
  I was so interested in, I wanted to work abroad
• 33:04
  because I had an interest to be a general manager
• 33:06
  running like a large global business. But I knew
• 33:10
  my company wasn't going to allow me to do that
• 33:11
  if I could not evidence that I'm able to work
• 33:14
  outside of my home country successfully. So we
• 33:17
  went through this whole diatribe where they were
• 33:19
  like, hey, you're going to London. It was like,
• 33:21
  you're going to Egypt. And both of those things
• 33:24
  fell apart. Then, hey, you're going to South
• 33:25
  Africa. And that one actually stuck. So I was
• 33:28
  like, okay, great. But what I started thinking
• 33:31
  about was, and this was supposed to be a year
• 33:33
  to 18 months. So I was curious about, okay, so
• 33:36
  I have to give up the role that I'm in now to
• 33:39
  take on this role. So that's one thing. But when
• 33:42
  I get back. How would I be edged back into a
• 33:47
  role? Because clearly I can't go back to what
• 33:49
  I'm leaving because they're going to put someone
• 33:51
  else in this role and they're not going to say,
• 33:53
  hey, we're just going to keep your seat warm
• 33:55
  while you're gone. So I was just curious. I went
• 33:57
  to my HR person. I said, how would I go about
• 33:59
  finding, getting reoriented back into the company?
• 34:03
  I said, because I'm a little concerned about
• 34:05
  that, but I wouldn't want to say that out loud
• 34:07
  to too many people. So I was hoping and saying
• 34:08
  that to the HR person. She would give me some
• 34:11
  nuggets that I could hold on to. And her answer
• 34:13
  was, she said, you probably need to talk to Ian
• 34:15
  Campbell. And Ian Campbell was this amazing leader
• 34:18
  in my business who reported to our business unit
• 34:20
  president. He was the person that signed off
• 34:21
  on all the expat assignments. I came to know
• 34:24
  him because he was the sponsor of one of our
• 34:27
  employee resource groups. So I knew of him just
• 34:30
  that way. She said, well, go talk to him. She
• 34:32
  said, he can probably give you some advice. So
• 34:33
  now I'm like, how do I ask this question? Because
• 34:36
  I don't want him to think that. I don't know.
• 34:39
  I just didn't want it to be negative. I didn't
• 34:40
  want him to feel that I was worried, though I
• 34:42
  was worried. And he's very high in the pecking
• 34:46
  order in the company. So I go and I meet with
• 34:49
  him and I tell him about where I'm going. And
• 34:52
  he's like, yeah, I know. I'm excited because
• 34:54
  South Africa is one of, he's from the UK. And
• 34:56
  he said South Africa is one of the favorite places
• 34:58
  for him and his wife. So that was a good opportunity
• 35:00
  to have some great dialogue. So then I said to
• 35:03
  him, I said, yeah, I said, I was thinking about
• 35:05
  when I get back. How's the best way for me to
• 35:08
  position myself? I said, I think about companies
• 35:09
  like GE because traditionally a GE would tell
• 35:12
  you you're going to have this role. Then you're
• 35:15
  going to have this role. They can give you two
• 35:17
  or three roles forward. And in my organization,
• 35:20
  we didn't necessarily do that. I said, so what
• 35:21
  would you advise? I said, because I want to make
• 35:23
  sure that I position myself well when I return.
• 35:25
  He said, so glad you asked. And he told me a
• 35:29
  story, Michael, of someone talking about mistakes.
• 35:32
  He told me about someone who went on an expat
• 35:34
  assignment for three years. to Europe, came back
• 35:38
  three years later. Leadership had changed. People
• 35:43
  had pretty much forgot that he was away. So they
• 35:46
  had to scramble around when he got back to find
• 35:50
  him something. He had to wait until something
• 35:52
  was found. So it was somewhat uncomfortable.
• 35:54
  And I was like, oh my gosh, I really don't want
• 35:55
  that. So I said, how can I avoid that? So he
• 35:59
  said, what you should do, he said, because it's
• 36:01
  really, things change quickly. He says, you want
• 36:04
  to keep yourself in front of leaders. He said,
• 36:08
  so come back every quarter and make sure that
• 36:10
  you talk to your mentors and your sponsors. He
• 36:13
  said, then he said, of which I will be one. So
• 36:16
  he gave me the opportunity for him to be a sponsor,
• 36:18
  which is amazing. That's a whole nother podcast,
• 36:21
  right? So I said, okay, I'm going to do that.
• 36:25
  So I did what he asked me to do. And then I knew
• 36:28
  back to networking. He's someone that loves,
• 36:31
  he's a triathlete. And every time, and then he
• 36:35
  loves South Africa. So every time I would come
• 36:36
  back every quarter, I would bring him something
• 36:38
  like a water bottle about South Africa. FIFA
• 36:42
  was in South Africa the year I was there. So
• 36:45
  I brought him like a t -shirt back from that.
• 36:47
  So just things that would resonate with him.
• 36:50
  And he was reminding me, he said, then when you
• 36:52
  get, when you know six months in advance, when
• 36:55
  you're coming back, let me know. He said, because
• 36:57
  we need to start thinking about roles for you.
• 37:00
  He says, a lot of times we'll have things in
• 37:01
  incubation. And we can start saying, hey, we
• 37:04
  know Giselle's coming back. So I said, okay,
• 37:05
  great. So I did all the things he asked me to
• 37:08
  do. So that's the other thing I would say in
• 37:09
  relationships, follow people's instructions,
• 37:11
  right? When they give them to you. And what happened,
• 37:15
  Michael, was amazing. I was concerned about having
• 37:18
  a single job when I got back. I actually had
• 37:21
  11 internal offers for roles. That's nice. That's
• 37:27
  very nice. And it's so much more comforting when
• 37:30
  you know you have something to come back to.
• 37:32
  Correct. Because you can very quickly, especially
• 37:35
  in the corporate world, you can be forgotten
• 37:38
  about. And you don't want that ever to happen.
• 37:41
  So very quickly, give me three actionable steps
• 37:46
  our listeners can take today to improve their
• 37:49
  networking skills. Give me three quick ones.
• 37:52
  Sure. So the first one I would say is. make a
• 37:56
  plan in terms of how you are going to follow
• 38:01
  up with your network, your general plan, how
• 38:05
  are you going to make it happen? I would start
• 38:07
  with that. Second of all, I would think about
• 38:11
  what is your goal or goals so that you can then
• 38:16
  start to think about Where can I find individuals
• 38:20
  that can assist me on this journey? That might
• 38:24
  be organizations, that might be different geographies,
• 38:29
  et cetera. And number three, I would say, begin
• 38:33
  to think about the network you already have.
• 38:37
  So for example, if you have an undergraduate
• 38:39
  degree, those alum, that's a network for you.
• 38:43
  Think about networks that are already easy for
• 38:46
  you to actually get into. It could be if you
• 38:49
  are in a, for example, I am in like a National
• 38:54
  Black MBA Association, for example, and they
• 38:56
  have 33 different chapters around the country.
• 38:58
  So if I wanted to expand knowing people in that
• 39:01
  industry, in a particular segment, I could use
• 39:05
  that organization. So use what you already have
• 39:08
  first. That is absolutely fantastic. You are
• 39:15
  such a great guest. Giselle, if somebody wanted
• 39:19
  to get hold of you, either for a talking speech,
• 39:23
  even for you to coach them, how would they get
• 39:26
  hold of you? Sure. You can find me on LinkedIn
• 39:29
  at Giselle Marcus, G -I -S -E -L -E Marcus, M
• 39:35
  -A -R -C -U -S. And I also have a website, www
• 39:38
  .gisellemarcus .com. On Facebook, I am IamGiselleMarcus.
• 39:44
  See you there. All right. That's good. Giselle,
• 39:47
  I'll speak with you soon. Look forward to it,
• 39:50
  Michael. Thanks for having me. This was awesome.
• 39:53
  Well, hold on, folks. Don't go anywhere. Let
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  And of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing
• 41:18
  listeners, for tuning in and spending your time
• 41:21
  with us. If you're interested in my digital courses,
• 41:25
  being coached, or having me come and talk to
• 41:27
  your company, just go to Michael and fill out
• 41:31
  the request form. Remember, networking isn't
• 41:34
  about being perfect. It's about being present.
• 41:37
  So take what you've learned today, get out there,
• 41:40
  and make some meaningful connections. If you've
• 41:43
  enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to
• 41:46
  subscribe. Leave us a review and share it with
• 41:49
  someone who could use a little networking inspiration.
• 41:52
  Let's keep the conversation going. You can find
• 41:55
  me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, or my
• 42:00
  website, foreman .com slash podcasts.