Latest / Salish Wolf / #58 Simon Kehl on Project Quiver

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#58 Simon Kehl on Project Quiver · Salish Wolf

0:06
Welcome to Project Quiver, a father daughter journey across
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the globe to capture the artistry and spirit of the
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world's finest traditional bow carvers.
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I'm Todd, the father. Ella is my daughter.
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Together we're on a mission to create a stunning coffee table
0:20
book that profiles more than a dozen master bow years and their
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unparalleled skill. For each chapter, we travel to
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the Bow Years workshop. Carve a bow under his guidance,
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photograph his woodcraft in detail and share his story here
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on the Salish Wolf Podcast. The book is called Quiver The
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Art of life. Through bow craft and this
0:38
journey, our living story is Project Quiver.
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Simon, thanks for joining me today.
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Where are you right now? I'm sitting on the side of the
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small mountain river, Melissa, maybe You see now it's a 28°
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where I'm sitting, but water is crystal clear and icy cold.
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So yes. And I did a little snorkeling in
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the river in the afternoon with the kids and family.
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And now I was looking for a quiet place, as suggested.
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And yeah, I'm curious about your question and my answers as well.
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How many kids do you have, Simon?
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32 boys, one girl, The boy's 13, and the youngest is the other
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boy. He's 9 right now.
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Yeah, and they're doing well. Are any of your kids into
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archery or bow making like you are?
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I don't try to push anything in my direction because I know from
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my childhood that you shouldn't just press your kids into the
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things you're interested. As parents, I don't think you
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should try that because mostly it it doesn't work.
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Sometimes it can, but often it doesn't.
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So let your kids do what they want, try to guide a little bit,
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but yeah, certainly don't push them into your direction.
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I think. Yeah.
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Yeah, that that sounds like some sage advice.
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I've discovered that too, as a parent.
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Just give them the space and give them the love and the
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opportunities and they'll find their own path.
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How is it that you got into bow making and archery?
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Oh, it was it. It's because of a storm.
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A storm hit my golden chain tree in the garden.
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You know, when we bought this house, it was surrounded by a
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little forest because the ancestors, they planted lots of
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lots of plants in the garden. And then the house was
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abandoned, abandoned for for quite a while.
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And when we bought it, there was quite of a forest amongst there
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were two golden chain trees. And yes, this is the story, yes,
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about how I got into bow making. It's, it's funny, you know, I
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was doing the stuff myself. I, I cut the, all the wood and
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we, we, we, we removed all the trees.
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And then with this storm, the second, the second of these
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golden chain trees fell and I went to cut it into firewood and
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I cut and cut. And then while cutting, I just
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realised how beautiful this wood really is and I stopped cutting.
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Then yeah, I went back to the Internet and just googled
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Laburnum golden chain tree and yeah, I found some stuff.
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Yeah, they like it for carving and turning, especially because
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of the nice structure and the colour it has.
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And one article also was about bow making and so and that
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caught my attention. And at the same time I put some
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of the pieces I had. These were like 20 inch pieces
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ready for fire. I put them on the Internet.
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We have that little website in Switzerland where you can can
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put your little ads to sell things and give away things.
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And I just put some pieces of the laburnum wood on this site
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and for for selling them cheap. And already the next day my
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phone rang and it was my friend Mick.
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I didn't know Mick then, but he's my friend nowadays.
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And he was just speaking about my wood and if it was still
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available and how long the pieces were.
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And I said to him, yeah, I cut them down.
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But there were still a little, a few longer ones as well.
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And so he was very interested and said he he will come, he
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will, he will drive by the next day with his his other friend
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Andy. And they were really pleased
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with this mood they found there the other way the other day.
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And yeah, it turned out they had AAI would say a gathering.
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They just built both together. And they also had set up this
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bow building association just the next hill from me.
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And yeah, that was my fate. So they took away all my
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laburnum staves. But the deal was they will teach
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me how to make a bow. So I have a free ticket for a
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bow class they were doing at this time there.
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And yeah, I, I was. For me, it was OK.
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I didn't know what I had there and gave away.
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Luckily I kept a few pieces. I still have them today.
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But yes. Then I didn't wait actually for
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the Bomate King class because I couldn't.
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I just went the next day to get the state from Mick and started
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myself in my little, little, how we say, workshop.
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OK, the workshop, yes. OK, Yeah, I started making a bow
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in between, got a little advice from Mick and Andy, but in the
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end I think I I did it mostly alone.
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The Internet helped a lot. So the Internet is very
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effective in transferring knowledge and the work is these
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forums on the Internet, different ones.
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I started with the German forum, found it pretty interesting.
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But soon then found myself on Primitive Archer, the famous and
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biggest primitive bow making site.
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Yeah, that's my little story. I still have the bow.
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It's an ash bow. Still nice.
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That's amazing. Thank you for sharing that.
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I think when I am there with you in Switzerland, we're going to
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be making a laburnum bow, aren't we?
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Yes, we will. Tot I, I, I'm, I'm about to
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prepare this day for you. Yes.
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Great. It's interesting to me because
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where I am on my farm right now in in British Columbia, I have
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one laburnum tree that I never knew the significance or
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importance of the laburnum wood. It's just a beautiful tree.
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As you said, the golden chain with the, the flowers, the
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yellow or golden flowers, the chain down from it once a year.
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But I can see it from where I'm sitting and talking to you right
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now. So it'll be nice to carve a bow
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out of laburnum. I'm I'm not about to cut this
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one down, but it's sure is a beautiful tree.
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Yeah, it's magic and it's rare. And but.
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Exactly where I am now in my holidays.
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If you walk up here, maybe 3 hours, 1000 meters of elevation,
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you will find the golden chain trees the the wild ones, not
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those for the garden. And you mentioned Mick and Andy,
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they were kind of your first teachers.
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Are they based in Switzerland? Yes, they are based just one
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village across the next hill and we still have this boat building
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thing. How long ago was was this when
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you started? Oh, that was maybe I'm a late
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starter. It's it was maybe 2014 I think
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yes was pretty much 11 years now.
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And did you know right away after carving that first bow
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that this is something that you wanted to do?
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I just knew that I wanted to do another one and then I made
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another one and after that I knew I have to do one more.
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So and that's how it evolved. And it didn't stop.
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Did you have an interest in archery before you made that
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first bell? Not really.
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Somewhere deep, Somewhere deep inside me.
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Maybe it was sleeping my interest.
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I did some archery when I was a kid, but not not very intense
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and not professional. We just had a bow and I remember
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I did some arrows myself. After I lost my bought arrows, I
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went to the forest and I picked some shafts and I made my own,
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my own arrows and I was really proud when they flew straight
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and they when they flew well. So that's maybe that that that
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came back to surface in 2014. Yeah, well, that's amazing.
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And are you making bows now as a full time occupation or is it a
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hobby? It's something in between, it's.
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OK. Most important job is my family
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primary. I'm a father of three kids and a
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husband of a hard working wife. My wife engaged me as the
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housekeeper and to look after the kids when she goes to work.
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So I'm a really happy man. I can stay at home and.
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Yeah, And after I've done all the laundry and all the kids are
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happy and fat, I I can make bows.
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Yeah, that's about my. Yeah, that sounds beautiful.
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The importance of bow making is very high, but it's only my
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second occupation. But I'm very happy with the
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situation and I am very thankful to my wife that she makes it,
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makes it happen. You know, I've been working as
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well in the office for a long time, but someone I don't know,
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after three years of bow making, I had that dream and you know,
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it, it wasn't, it wasn't really a good dream, but it I had that
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dream when I turned 40 years old that if you go on like this, if
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you, if you do this job until you're 60, you get you, you will
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get your cancer. You, you, you will not, you will
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not be happy. So I, I already saw my my
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burnout coming and I had that dream, yes, that told me to stop
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with this. And I also then, yeah, I always
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had this in my mind. Yeah, I did another degree in,
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in business. And but then my wife, yeah, she,
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she said she wanted to start her own business and we still had
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these three kids. And I of course, I told her to
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support the thing and keep things in order at home.
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So, and she was, she was OK with that.
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So, and that was a little bit of a change in my bow making as
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well, of course, because yeah, I could work during the days
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because when I started bow making the first, I would say
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5-6 years, I was doing both for recreation and for for finding
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my own middle. And I always did it at night
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because I had to work during the day.
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And that was pretty, pretty hard sometimes.
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But it always full fulfilled me. So it, it gave me energy to make
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the bows. I think making bows, if it works
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and yeah, it it gives you a lot in a positive way.
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I think if people would make more bows, the world would be a
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better world. Because making a bow is quite
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like a meditation. You're on your own, you're for
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hours, you're on your own in your workshop, you and the wood
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and the tools and the time flies.
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And after you land you have to bow.
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And it's very satisfying. For me it always was and it
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still is because when I made bows for myself at night, I
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couldn't imagine selling a bow because it's a holy thing and
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you don't want to compromise your holy thing with the
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commercial aspects. It's yeah.
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And I, I do know many bow makers that make bow for themselves and
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they wouldn't sell because it's not the same.
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And you know, I was thinking a lot about this before I sold my
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first bow and it also it took a while.
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Also, for a long time I thought, no, your boss, they aren't good
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enough. I also told everybody my bows
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are not good enough. I I can't sell them yet.
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And it was quite of a process. But in the end, after I had the
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opportunity to build more bows, when I stopped my my profession
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as a lawyer, yeah, I had more time for making bows.
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It it's not getting more professional is not only bad
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because also if you want to get better in something like that,
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you have to invest more time. And you only have the time if
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you do it professionally and if you start, if you have time to
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get better. Yeah, you need that time to get
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better. And you need to make a lot of
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bows. At least I needed a lot of bows
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to get at the point where I could sell them.
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And still I am not always. I don't always feel well when I
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give away self bows. You have often you have the
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doubts, will it? Will it hold together,
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especially as I'm doing a lot of U bows.
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U is, yeah, sometimes difficult. You never know.
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And yeah, it's still a difficult thing that takes a lot to Yeah,
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to feel good with giving away the bow then.
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What is your favorite bow wood to work with Simon?
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Oh, my favorite bow wood is of course you.
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And I don't tell that because I would claim it's the best wood,
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but it's the best wood that I can get in my area and the best
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woods that I can cut myself. And I have a connection to that
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wood when I go and get my own staves.
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And yeah. And I learned to love my root.
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I, I, I, I always tell I'm I'm married to you.
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She's my second wife. And yeah, I'm happy with her.
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You just got to learn to live with your wives and then you
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will be happy man. So does you grow near where you
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live in Switzerland? Yeah, we have some.
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We have quite a quite a bit, but it's also a bit protected.
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But it's only a bit protected. So you won't get in jail if you
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cut the tree, but you can't just go and cut any tree.
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You always have to ask the owner, of course, but there are
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sometimes you will find owners for different reasons that give
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you a three or two or A5 or A10. Sometimes you're lucky.
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And if you have open eyes and yeah, sometimes ask the right
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questions at the right place at the right time, then you can cut
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your own you. And I'm very happy about that,
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yeah. And what kind of bows do you
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enjoy making the most? Is there a certain style of bow?
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Not really, I like diversity in my bow making.
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That's what I like most. I don't like making the same bow
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twice or even more. That's why I don't really like
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making the Alps because yeah, for me it's the same every,
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every time. Of course every bow is as its
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personality and it's an individual piece of wood still.
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It's still making a self bow. But the concept is very rigid I
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think, and I don't think it's the best bow, but many people
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want 1. So if you have you, you have the
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people ask about you, about making the the English Longbow
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and I always try to convince them to make another boat, but
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sometimes it doesn't work and then I make that English Longbow
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again. Yeah.
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And are you now making bows mostly for customers or are you
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still making them for yourself and just out of your passion for
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bow carving? Yeah, that's one of the bad
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things on ongoing professional as well.
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So you have to make the bows that the customers want and not
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the bows you have in your mind. So I still have my personal
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projects. I have a few staves, special
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staves that I just have, but I know what they should become,
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but I don't have the time then. So I have to make the bows that
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customers want. I don't mind.
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I like making their bows as well, but I don't do mine.
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It's it's theirs. Yeah.
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And are you taking custom requests or are you making bows
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and then putting them on the Internet for sale?
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Oh, you know I haven't started long now for with selling bows.
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When I decided to sell my bows finally, I already had a bunch
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of bows that I made for myself. So I had a lot of bows to offer
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for clients that I put online and many of them still are for
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sale. I had that stock to start with
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when I started selling my bows and but since then my stock
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didn't grow a lot. Sometimes you get underweight
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with the bow and then you have one more bow for your stock of
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course, because you have to make another one.
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And so I still have bows in stock, but the stock is getting
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smaller. And in making bows, do you use
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machines or mostly hand tools? It's an interesting topic.
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Of course, you know, the purists, those, of course, they
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only use the, the hand tools, some even stones.
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But I'm not, I would say dogmatic in any way in my bow
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making. I'm not dogmatic in materials
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and I'm not dogmatic in tools. I don't mind using hand tool, no
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power tools. And you know, I think when you
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make a lot of bows, the power tools help, really help a lot.
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And they are also, they're not easy to manage because it's also
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a thing you got to learn to handle a bandsaw and to know
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where to cut and not to cut too much somewhere in the crooked
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wood. It's not so easy using this.
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I made a lot of mistakes also and I paid a lot of staves and
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but finally I I'm using a lot of power tools as well.
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I'm using Sanders and I'm using a belt sandal sometimes.
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I'm not hiding this. I know it's not cool for some
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people but I'm using power tools as well if they help me to make
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a good go quick. But there is a point in making a
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self bow where you quit using the power tools.
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OK you can use the Sander until the end almost but other power
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tools you can't use anymore. You need the feeling then in the
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end. And my very favorite tools for
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sure is the rest and the draw knife.
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The draw knife is fantastic tool.
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You can do almost everything with the draw knife.
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You can chase a very thin ring on EU stave, almost flawless.
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And you can work very rough, but you can work very precise as
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well. I have a bunch of draw knives.
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I have tall ones. I have those with the very flat
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edge, and those were with the steep edges and the tall ones
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and the sharp ones, the short ones and the big ones.
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And I'm often switching between my favorite three while making
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the bow. 1st it's the draw knife you use and then I switch to the
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rest and then it was the scraper.
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But I stopped using the traditional cup scraper because
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you know, bow making and making lots of bows is hard work for
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your body as well. I have that thing in the elbow,
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but I think it's from, it's from different things, but it's also
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from holding you, but it's also from drawn.
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I think it's like a little tennis elbow.
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It's not so bad at the moment, but I have other things.
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You know, I have my dump. I destroyed my dumps a little
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bit with the card scraper, using it excessively.
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And I would like to warn all the novice bow makers from using it,
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using it excessively over the years.
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You will get our trotic. I think it's our trotic in
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English things. And you know, I realized it's,
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it's, it's really bad. No, now it's, it's a little
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better because I built a device. I think it's I was that famous
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poem maker. He made the scraper.
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It's named after him. I don't know it yet, but you
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just mount your you just mount your scraper on a piece of wood
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where you can handle it more comfortable and yeah, without
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destroying your thumbs. So that's another aspect of
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making lots of self bows. It's physically is it is pretty
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hard work that also I I think it justifies to use the power tools
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as long as they're useful for you and make it a little bit
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less, less hard. So that, but that's just my
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opinion about that. Yeah, well, it seems, seems like
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you're speaking from experience. And yes, you said earlier about
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how bow carving is very therapeutic to the soul.
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It's very meditative, it's very healthy in that perspective.
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But certainly there are some some negative consequences on
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health. And I one of those that I
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noticed is all the sawdust. So I'm really trying to figure
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out how not to breathe in a lot of the sawdust, especially
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because some of the woods have more toxic sawdust than others.
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But yeah, also the tools in the repetitive use.
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Yeah, if you do it once, it's no problem.
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If you do it twice, it's no problem.
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But if you're in that sawdust for hours every day, it's a
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different thing. So and that, that's what
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something I changed when I started working more in my
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workshop. After making myself a bit more
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professional, I started protecting myself, of course,
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because I realized it's not a good thing being in that sawdust
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all day long. And I have installed the air
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purification in in my workshop as well, of course.
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But that all is not perfect. You still get contaminated a
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little bit, but you know, life is deadly.
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But you should, yeah, a little bit you have in your own hands,
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of course. Yeah, that's a good idea,
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installing that and and it's definitely something I recommend
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for anyone who's going to be doing bow carving long term.
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Like you said once or twice, not a big deal, but if you're doing
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it every day for years and years, it's hard to tell what
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the consequences will be. People always, yeah, they are
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frightened about you and you sawdust especially because you
32:45
is toxic. But I think I don't react to it
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and I'm happy I don't react allergic to any any of the woods
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until now. But I'm aware of that the
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allergic reactions, they can come from one day to the other.
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It's not, it's not sure you're not, you're not the one that get
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hit from it. So yeah.
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But I'm, I'm very happy. I tolerate the sawdust pretty
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well. I don't have negative reactions
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myself. Simon, are you teaching
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workshops at all for bow carving?
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Are you strictly carving on your own?
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Oh, I got, I I got, I got requests over time.
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I didn't advertise that, but as I got requests, I was thinking
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about a, a setting to do teaching at my place.
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And yeah, I found my setting for teaching.
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And what I don't like about teaching the usual go classes,
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you know, they start at Thursday evening and they finish at
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Sunday afternoon and you just have that short time to make
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that bow happen. And I, I saw in, in other bow
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classes, I, I was helping out that quality is not guaranteed
34:39
like that. And it's always a stressful
34:42
finish in this, in this setting. And, you know, now I have
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students that just visit me at my home.
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They just give a call. Do you have time?
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You know, I'm always at home. I'm, I have the time.
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I don't have big groups. I have two or three people
35:08
maximum. And yeah.
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And they also, they don't live very far, so they don't have too
35:19
long driving time. So we can be very spontaneous
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and we don't have a finish line for the bows.
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So they just pass by, work a few hours and then leave again and
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then they come again until the bows are finished.
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That's how I do it sometimes now just also integrating them in my
35:48
daily workflow. So these are side projects of of
35:53
my bow making. So I I let them build.
35:59
That sounds great. That's a really nice way to do
36:02
it. With that lack of structure, how
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do your students and your customers find you?
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It's evolving now. You know, when I was starting to
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selling to sell my boss, I made a Facebook account, of course,
36:23
and I made an Instagram account and I also I I, I, I made an
36:30
Internet site and also making that site was something pretty
36:36
new to me and not something very pleasant for me as well.
36:43
But I gave myself into that project as well.
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I made the Internet site. I found a pretty cool Internet
36:53
address with the South bow dot chapter and I make lots of pics
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of my bows, or I must say I made a lot of pics.
37:08
I don't do them regularly anymore, but that was more or
37:14
less my advertising. You can reach a lot of people in
37:18
Facebook and Instagram for free and that worked pretty well for
37:25
me. And you know, with all the nice
37:30
pictures and the Internet site, I finally got some requests.
37:38
I also put a few bows on Etsy. Etsy is quite an international
37:44
place and that also worked pretty well for me.
37:52
It's a lot about the nice pictures because how, how can
37:56
you sell a bow if not making a nice pictures of it or even a
38:04
video shooting the bow. And you know, I made a a few
38:11
articles in a German bow make in a German archery magazine.
38:18
And yeah, that also helped me. Of course.
38:24
That's it. And now it evolves.
38:28
Now it's already yeah, there is a rumour about that bow maker in
38:34
the eastern Switzerland. And yeah, you know, I even, I
38:42
even stopped with Facebook and Instagram a bit in the winter
38:49
just to avoid too many requests because I see if I have more
38:57
than about like 10 almost. I'm getting nervous and I don't
39:04
have the time for my personal projects and I still have, yeah,
39:11
a bunch of personal projects as well, bow making and other than
39:17
bow making. And so I can, I think I can
39:22
regulate it a bit now with making more posts on social
39:29
media and that will give more orders.
39:35
But finally, yeah, I myself, I'm a little bit surprised it worked
39:40
so well because really I'm a a newcomer and in the beginning I
39:50
didn't really believe it would work out.
39:54
And yeah, but it does. I could make more pose and I
40:02
could have more autos if I wanted so.
40:05
It's OK now for me, I still have time for my personal projects.
40:11
Well, you sure have done a good job with like you said, your
40:14
photos, your websites great. I found you I think through my
40:18
daughter and I found you through Instagram and you build
40:22
beautiful bows. Your your level of skill is at
40:26
the highest and it's obvious that you're very passionate
40:29
about what you do. And I'm excited to come and
40:34
visit with you in September and to be able to feature you and
40:38
the upcoming book Quiver. I think you're going to be a
40:43
great addition to the lineup of Bowyers who we are, who we're
40:47
documenting in that book. Yeah, I'm looking forward to see
40:51
you as well and your daughter and showing you a little bit of
40:56
Switzerland, showing you the the yew trees in the gorge.
41:01
That'll be great. Looking forward to that.
41:05
Thank you so much and thanks for taking the time today, Simon, to
41:09
meet while you're on vacation. We can't stop now, Todd.
41:15
We can't stop now. I'm talking now about bows.
41:19
I'm not finished yet. You want to.
41:22
I'm not going. Then the connection's been
41:24
checked. All right, fine.
41:27
Now you see I I changed my location, I'm now in the middle
41:31
of the. It is better.
41:33
Off the river and sometimes it it helps just a few meters.
41:39
Yeah. We, we haven't talked about bow
41:42
physics. We haven't talked about what is
41:45
tell me about. We haven't talked about
41:50
technical bow building. I don't know.
41:54
We missed a lot. All right, well, I'm I'm all
41:58
ears. Let's let's start with the
41:59
physics. You know what can you teach?
42:02
Us about the physics of bow building.
42:04
Oh, I can't, I can't. I can't teach you about the
42:07
physics. I can't.
42:08
I can only tell you it's very interesting, but I'm not the one
42:14
to teach. And because I'm trying to
42:18
understand bow physics since I'm making bows.
42:23
And yeah, at first it seems like something very simple, A bow.
42:32
But if you look closer and if you start making them and
42:36
feeling them, it's all other than easy, simple.
42:43
It's a very complex, very dynamic process that happens
42:50
when you draw the bow, and understanding that physics from
42:58
the physics side is one thing. I'm trying to since I'm making
43:08
bows with every bow. You have these thoughts about
43:13
string angle, bow length, bow widths, bow shape, bow profile,
43:21
till shape. And you can't put the things
43:27
together. You never can put the things
43:31
really together. The only way to put them
43:35
together is like making your bow perfect, making your bow look
43:44
beautiful because every detail matters.
43:50
And yeah, I'm not talking about bling, bling tips or arrow pass.
43:57
I'm only talking about the shape of the bow.
44:00
And every part of the bow does talk with all the rest of the
44:08
bow. It's, you have two limbs, but
44:15
with connecting them with the with the string, yeah, you
44:22
connect them and the bow is one thing and it acts as one.
44:28
So what to tell you about that? You know, it's it's, it's a very
44:36
complex equation, a very dynamic equation that you can't solve by
44:43
yourself, a computer program. Yes they can, and they are
44:47
interesting as well. But take the salvation of the
44:54
equation is making a beautiful bow and making it look
45:01
aesthetic. There is a lot of mathematics
45:04
behind the bow and you can describe the bow with
45:07
mathematics pretty simple, but when it starts moving it gets
45:13
dynamic. It gets very difficult, but
45:19
describing it in mathematics is one thing.
45:22
How you say? I just found out for myself.
45:27
Maybe it sounds too simple and yeah, a bit flat, but a
45:36
beautiful bow is a good bow, and a good bow is a beautiful bow.
45:43
It's very simple. I can.
45:46
By the looks of a bow, I can tell you that Richard's good or
45:52
it doesn't. And you don't even have to
45:55
string that bow. It's all from the nice
46:02
proportions. What are some of the biggest
46:05
challenges that you've had with bow building?
46:09
To make them not fail, because no matter.
46:14
And what techniques do you use so that they don't fail?
46:16
What have you learned? Make them beautiful.
46:21
Make a beautiful till so you can minimise the risk of
46:29
catastrophic event by spreading the stress in the wood.
46:36
That is the safest way to make a safe bow to spread the stress,
46:43
but it's not the way to make the best bow.
46:48
Making the best bow doesn't mean to spread the stress but to
46:54
concentrate the stress as much as you can without failing.
47:03
So that is the the recipe. But to make a good bow, but it's
47:12
always like you're on the edge, you can decide to make a working
47:18
horse and overbuild your bow. Take a piece of Osage, make your
47:25
bow like 70 inch long 75 and make a 50 LB bow.
47:33
So it won't let you down, it won't fail, but it won't be fun
47:39
shooting. So bow making always happens on
47:45
the edge if you want to make a good bow.
47:48
And no matter what material you use, you always have to design
47:53
your bow onto the onto that edge where it's shortly before
47:59
failing. No matter what where you're
48:02
using carbon or wood porn sinew, if you overbuild your bow, it
48:12
won't be a pleasure to shoot. I see that you don't just make
48:17
self bows, you also have many beautiful laminate bows on your
48:22
website. Can you tell me about your
48:24
process of making laminate bows and wood selection?
48:30
The laminates are my, I would say my lab.
48:37
You know the problem with making self bows is you can't really
48:44
experiment because every stave is different.
48:48
You can't run an experiment, make a bow, change a little
48:53
thing, make the same bow again with little differences and see
48:57
what happens. And that changes a little if you
49:02
start laminating bows. So you can repeat a design
49:08
pretty close and that's what helps a lot this making
49:15
experiments and see what happens if you just change something on
49:22
your bow. And also when you make the
49:27
laminate, you can like go with very you don't need very much
49:37
wood. You don't need to tiller a lot
49:39
in the end because you're gluing in tiller, you make your your
49:50
tapered laminates and gluing tapers where it's needed.
49:56
And so my goal always is to glue up something, then rough it out,
50:04
make it shiny and string the bow and it should look good then
50:11
already without too much tailoring.
50:15
So that's the goal. Do you have specific woods that
50:18
you like to use in making the laminates?
50:22
I only use the strongest woods because my laminates are very.
50:38
Let's say on the edge. No, I make them short, I make
50:44
them pretty slim and they are very optimised so only the best
50:54
woods will survive in a laminate of mine.
51:00
I tried many woods, but in the end it's only a handful that
51:05
really works in these designs. It's a Osage.
51:10
It's it's it's you and a few tropical woods and all the other
51:18
woods that are available in sizes that can be laminated.
51:24
They don't work. They're just too weak.
51:31
What are some of the tropical woods that you use?
51:36
I have the I have kind of fake, fake lemon wood.
51:46
Then I have EP of course. Then I have the blood wood.
51:51
That works really well and I just bought myself a boil
52:01
stream. I have a little trunk of snake
52:08
food now at home. And you said fake lemon wood.
52:16
What do you mean by fake lemon wood?
52:18
You know, the original lemon wood that was used very often in
52:25
the 50s of the last century. You don't get that anymore.
52:33
They just make it disappear. The boilers, you can't buy it
52:41
anymore. And now there is kind of fake
52:45
lemon wood that you can buy that has similar properties, but it's
52:49
not the original. It has the nicer colour.
52:57
What? Yeah, it has the better color.
53:02
It has a real lemon color, but it's not so strong.
53:09
Interesting. OK, Yeah, I live where I live in
53:14
Costa Rica, we have lemon wood, but it's it is hard to find
53:19
because it's I believe in Nicaragua it's a protected tree
53:22
and in Costa Rica it's it's hard to find available.
53:25
I have about four of them in my backyard by my archery range,
53:31
but they're too beautiful for me to cut down to use.
53:34
But I'm hoping to find some lemon wood someday that I can
53:37
use to make some bows. I haven't worked with it yet.
53:40
Yeah, if you find a few locks or boards I would maybe even but
53:49
pay for shipping. Yeah, 90 centimeters is what I
53:56
need. I need 97.
54:02
For laminating, no. I'm I'm fine with how?
54:09
Long have you been, why have you learned?
54:16
So you said the the laminate bows are your lab building
54:21
those. So what are some of the things
54:22
you've learned from building the laminate bows?
54:28
Oh, I saw some on the on the Internet forum, some primitive
54:32
ultra. There was a guy called silent
54:35
sniper. He really he had the splendid
54:39
laminated pose. I went to my knees every time I
54:44
saw them, but Apple, you, you don't see much of them.
54:51
But finally I started myself and I started pretty simple.
55:00
One of the first was an experiment I did because you
55:05
know all the boyers, they say a lot when the day is long.
55:13
And so many said you can't make a bow from large, which is a
55:19
conifer tree and you can't make a bow from from this and that.
55:26
So finally I tried to prove the opposite and took a piece of
55:32
large and glued up a piece of a piece of ash.
55:40
And I think this was my first laminated bow.
55:45
And. Yeah, then I went on.
55:49
But finally I found out a lot myself, not everything, but
55:58
finally I teach myself with making one after another and
56:05
changing little things. And they got, they got more
56:12
complex and even more complex. And yeah, nowadays they look
56:20
almost like the modern bows. I know that.
56:23
But every piece in this has a meaning.
56:27
I don't do laminations only for the look.
56:33
Every lamination in my bows has a certain purpose.
56:42
So I try to keep them as simple as I can.
56:46
But it looks I can't keep them very simple in the end.
56:53
Now they got quite complex I must say.
56:56
But I have fun making those. And yeah, trying new things.
57:04
Bow making is for me is 1 big experiment.
57:10
Every bow should be a little experiment.
57:14
Every bow should have at least one aspect that is new to you or
57:20
to me. And if that is the case, and if
57:25
it's only a little detail, then it's OK for me.
57:29
But I don't like doing things. Yeah, twice, totally the same.
57:38
It's one big experiment every bow with an experiment.
57:44
What wood do you most often use for the back of your laminate
57:48
bows? Oh, you know, I when I start the
57:53
time, I've been using ash for four years or maybe seven years,
58:03
only because my approach always was to use the wood that I can
58:08
get in my area and ash. You can use ash for a backing,
58:14
But I finally found out it's not reliable.
58:18
And if you want to do both for clients, then you you must have
58:25
a a reliable back on your bow. If the bow explodes, it's never
58:31
good and it's totally avoidable. So I then bought some a little
58:39
Hickory for the backing. But first I'm using I'm using
58:45
bamboo as a backing because even Hickory let me down sometimes.
58:51
So finally, when making natural bows, there are two reliable
58:59
backings that I really can suggest, and it's only bamboo
59:07
and sinew. Everything else will let you
59:12
down if you're not lucky. Yeah, I don't see any SUNU back
59:21
bows on your website or Instagram.
59:24
Do you make a lot of those? I I did a few in the past.
59:31
I also I sold a few, but for quite of a time the I went
59:41
without seeing you. I put it aside telling the sinew
59:46
bow is lumpy and it's the sinew is too heavy and it but I came
59:56
back to seeing you now with making horn bows again.
1:00:02
You know I I made a few home bows a few years ago.
1:00:06
But then stopped because it took too long for me.
1:00:10
I don't have so much patience sometimes to wait.
1:00:15
But right now I'm doing pretty much horn, sinew, wood
1:00:23
composites and it's also my favorite bow at the moment is a
1:00:29
horn sinew composite and it's also the most.
1:00:34
What type of? I didn't get you if.
1:00:42
What type of horn are you using? I'm using only the Buffalo horn
1:00:52
from Asia. I get them really nice already,
1:00:59
flattened strips, long strips and they allow me to make my
1:01:05
projects. Are you on my Internet site
1:01:09
right now? You're watching the site.
1:01:14
I can be. I have it here on a tab.
1:01:17
Yep, I'm there now. You know I have two types of
1:01:20
hornbows now. The one is the turbo Longbow.
1:01:25
This is. A.
1:01:28
Horn, bamboo, Longbow that I claim for myself this invention
1:01:36
somehow a little bit. I had the dream of making such
1:01:42
bow for a while. I didn't really believe.
1:01:46
Well, those are are. It worked out.
1:01:49
They are gorgeous. But I had the dream of making a
1:01:56
Longbow with a piece of horn on the belly where the belly is
1:02:02
most stressed to realise the design and the pre tension of
1:02:09
the string I wanted. So I'm building these bows with
1:02:15
lots of reflex which leads to very high string tension.
1:02:20
And the clue of this bow also is that it's a long bow that has a
1:02:27
big reflex built in. But the the Longbow has really
1:02:34
has the advantage that you can realise very thin and slim autos
1:02:41
and reduce mass on the tips. That's the big advantage of the
1:02:46
Longbow. And this bow combines a huge
1:02:51
reflex and low arrow tip weight. So shoots really well and I
1:02:59
achieved with this bow something I have been dreaming of for
1:03:06
long, namely getting in concurrent with the modern bows.
1:03:14
So with this bow I found an Archer on more than one like my
1:03:21
team Archers and they shoot like Swiss championships long bow
1:03:27
class and they win. They win Swiss championships
1:03:31
with the all natural Longbow against the glass bows.
1:03:35
And this is just something that is so satisfying as a Boyer you
1:03:40
can't imagine. So I am super proud of this bow
1:03:46
and super proud on the outros shooting it that well.
1:03:52
You should be. They are absolutely gorgeous.
1:03:56
As you're in, as you suggested, I went to your website and I
1:03:59
had. I don't think I had seen those
1:04:01
before, but those are incredibly beautiful bows, both the long
1:04:05
bows and the lightning bows I was looking at.
1:04:08
Yeah, the Lightning is my favorite at the moment.
1:04:11
The Lightning just is the the logic evolvement of the Turbo
1:04:18
Longbow. So I couldn't make the turbo
1:04:22
Longbow any shorter without the bamboo breaking because even the
1:04:29
bamboo will get on its limits with that much reflex and tiller
1:04:35
like that. So then I had to dream of sinew
1:04:41
backing these bows, make it a little recurves and just build
1:04:49
it as true home bows. And they turned out to be really
1:04:55
fantastic bows. And you know, people are now are
1:05:00
just, they're requesting these bows now.
1:05:04
I, I went with them. I, I had one, I went with my
1:05:09
personal boat to the boat fair. It's I think it's bit more than
1:05:14
a month now and I brought my personal bow there and I came
1:05:20
home with the five warders and three people that want to come
1:05:27
and build such bow at my place. So this one lightning strikes.
1:05:37
If you don't mind me asking, how much do you sell one of your
1:05:40
lightning bows for? These are 1400, but it's just a
1:05:46
startup price. Maybe, but I must say that seems
1:05:50
like a. Really good price.
1:05:52
Yeah, but I know I have a pretty good workflow when making these
1:06:03
laminated bows. I can glue them up pretty quick.
1:06:09
I have cool machines for making the laminates for tapering them,
1:06:16
and I couldn't make them without the machines and those helped me
1:06:24
a lot. And the good thing is, you know,
1:06:28
I get bored very quickly. I get bored when I have to make
1:06:33
more than three self pose in a row.
1:06:36
So I'm trying to guide the oldest a little and I'm really
1:06:43
happy when I can. After three self bows I can make
1:06:47
3 laminated and after gluing 3 bows I looking forward to make 3
1:06:55
self bows again. So I need, I really need
1:07:00
diversity. Yeah, well, your work is
1:07:04
incredible. And we, as I said earlier, we're
1:07:07
so excited to have you in this book.
1:07:09
And the more I look at your bows, the more I'm just
1:07:12
astounded by how beautiful they are.
1:07:15
And I know they perform at the highest level.
1:07:19
So like I'm just, I'm amazed at what you've been able to create
1:07:23
and what you've learned and. I'm I'm amazed by that.
1:07:26
You've been doing this film making.
1:07:29
You know, I, I never thought, I never could dream if you ask.
1:07:34
If you told me 10 years ago that I would do something like that,
1:07:38
I couldn't imagine so. But it's just it, it comes out
1:07:45
of my heart. Yes, they, the ideas come out of
1:07:50
your mind. It's first is the idea and you
1:07:55
have to visualise something and then dream of it and then try
1:08:05
and fail and stand up and try again.
1:08:10
Yeah, well, I feel like I could spend a month with you instead
1:08:14
of only a handful of days. I would love to try carving a
1:08:19
bunch of different styles, but I I won't be greedy.
1:08:22
I'm happy that I get to come and carve a bow with you, and my
1:08:26
daughter's going to have an amazing time taking photos.
1:08:28
Of all, you will make the five. Bows.
1:08:31
Time. Time will be much too short it.
1:08:34
Will it will. Unfortunately our our trip would
1:08:37
take six months if we took as much time with each Bowyer as as
1:08:41
we want to, so trying to keep it somewhat realistic so we can get
1:08:45
all 15 in over the course of a few months.
1:08:49
So and and did you did already visit all the American bowyers
1:08:53
now the US bowyers and the Canadians?
1:08:57
Yeah. So three of the four Americans
1:08:58
we visited with and we start the three Canadian bowyers next
1:09:03
week. So over the course of August,
1:09:08
we'll do all three Canadian bowyers and then at the end of
1:09:10
August we'll leave for Europe, come to see you and a handful of
1:09:15
others. Yeah, looking forward, we'll be
1:09:18
cool. Thank you, Todd.
1:09:22
Great, great. Well, thank you again and I look
1:09:26
forward to seeing you in in a month or two.
1:09:31
See you. Thank you, Todd.
1:09:33
Have a good time. Thanks for listening to Project
1:09:44
Quiver on Salish Wolf. Follow our journey on Instagram
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at Project Quiver as we seek out the world's most extraordinary
1:09:51
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1:09:57
The Art of Life through Bow Craft, arrives in 2026.
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1:10:05
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