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SMNTY Classics: A League of Their Own · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and I'll put a
0:07
Speaker 1: Stephane never told your production of I Heart Radio. And uh,
0:19
Speaker 1: we have another we've been doing on the movies movie
0:22
Speaker 1: content lately. Uh. And we have a classic that I
0:26
Speaker 1: wanted to bring back on a league of their own because,
0:31
Speaker 1: as we mentioned in this episode, at the time, we
0:35
Speaker 1: knew Amazon Prime was gonna have the show. Uh, and
0:39
Speaker 1: it has come out. I have not watched it. Have
0:41
Speaker 1: you watched it? I'm excited. No, but I was seeing
0:44
Speaker 1: people right about it, and I'm so excited for it.
0:46
Speaker 1: I'm very excited for it too. Maybe we can do
0:48
Speaker 1: like a spoiled Saturday on that I have seen, like
0:52
Speaker 1: there was every time. But I saw a story about
0:55
Speaker 1: how there was a review bombing of it because there's
0:57
Speaker 1: a queer relationship. I think there's a couple of queer
0:59
Speaker 1: relations ships. I think so, I believe. So yeah, very excited. Yes,
1:05
Speaker 1: um so yeah, Well we'll definitely have to We'll have
1:08
Speaker 1: to check that out and come back to it. But
1:09
Speaker 1: in the meantime, here's this classic episode. Hey, this is
1:18
Speaker 1: Danny and Samantha, and welcome to stuff I've never told
1:20
Speaker 1: you protection of I Heart Radio. So here's my question
1:34
Speaker 1: for you today, Samantha. Okay, what was the last movie
1:39
Speaker 1: you watched? Oh that's that's not fair, because I've rewatched
1:43
Speaker 1: things and I feel like I'm a loser. I actually
1:45
Speaker 1: just watched The Conjuring too, because I realized it was
1:48
Speaker 1: on HBO Max, and I was like, oh, yeah, I
1:51
Speaker 1: love this movie. Well not in this sort of love
1:53
Speaker 1: this movie, but I just love horror films in general.
1:56
Speaker 1: So it's been a while since I've seen that one. Yeah,
1:59
Speaker 1: sounds like I'm a big fan. Yum. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
2:03
Speaker 1: the Crooked Man. Yeah, that Crooked Man one is always freakish. Yes,
2:09
Speaker 1: I'm trying to I'm actually trying to write a scary
2:13
Speaker 1: children's rhyme right now. Um, and I was thinking about
2:17
Speaker 1: that one. You know, the ones that are like not
2:19
Speaker 1: meant to be scary, but when you really think about it,
2:21
Speaker 1: they're pretty freaky. Yeah. Well, I mean anything involving witches
2:24
Speaker 1: and such. You're like, oh my god, that's really bad. Yeah.
2:28
Speaker 1: They're all trying to poison you and eat you, every
2:30
Speaker 1: single one of them, according to these rhymes we tell
2:33
Speaker 1: our children, right, So, and I kinda I'm very proud
2:37
Speaker 1: of you because I did get text message last night.
2:41
Speaker 1: But what was the last movie you saw? It was
2:46
Speaker 1: a League of their Own and I was like, oh
2:49
Speaker 1: my gosh, I really wish I was sitting there with
2:52
Speaker 1: you watching it. I would just want to know your reaction.
2:54
Speaker 1: So tell me what is your review. Oh? I loved it.
3:00
Speaker 1: I thought it was so fun. I was like, this
3:03
Speaker 1: is why I'm so surprised it wasn't already a part
3:05
Speaker 1: of your repertoire. Yeah. Yeah, I was surprised how much
3:12
Speaker 1: I liked it because I was pretty sure I was
3:14
Speaker 1: gonna like it. But in general, sports movies aren't my thing,
3:19
Speaker 1: right right, And I was like, how no offense to baseball?
3:24
Speaker 1: But you know it's not the most usually action packed,
3:29
Speaker 1: so you didn't watch the rookie either I'm guessing the
3:31
Speaker 1: children or angel in the outfield. I you know, I
3:35
Speaker 1: have a really funny memory of Angels in the outfield,
3:37
Speaker 1: because that's I think. I've told you the story where
3:41
Speaker 1: I was nine years old and I thought I was
3:43
Speaker 1: going to die because I've just seen Air Force one
3:46
Speaker 1: and I have a very overactive imagination, and I saw
3:48
Speaker 1: some gas in the air um and I drinking an
3:53
Speaker 1: entire six pack of Fresco because I thought it was
3:55
Speaker 1: beer and I wanted to get drunk one time before
3:57
Speaker 1: I died. I don't know what that says about me.
4:00
Speaker 1: But Angels Leading Outfield that was the movie that was
4:03
Speaker 1: playing when I did this, So I did see that.
4:06
Speaker 1: Did the correlation? What about Filled the Dreams? I did
4:09
Speaker 1: not see that. No, Oh you've never seen that? No,
4:12
Speaker 1: no should I. If you build it, they will come.
4:17
Speaker 1: I'm just saying from there. Um, I loved that movie.
4:24
Speaker 1: I loved The Sad Lot, which apparently I was. I
4:27
Speaker 1: haven't seen it in a while, but I did someone
4:29
Speaker 1: tweet saying that it did not age well. So even
4:32
Speaker 1: though I don't care for baseball, I loved all of
4:35
Speaker 1: those movies because it has that sentimentality like, um, of
4:40
Speaker 1: this is what the good Old Days was supposed to
4:44
Speaker 1: be or looked like, and has this kind of nationalism, which,
4:47
Speaker 1: you know, thinking back on it definitely seems propaganda ish.
4:52
Speaker 1: But yeah, I can't help it. I'm like, you know what,
4:54
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be American, and I want to be
4:57
Speaker 1: all American type of person, so this fits in, right.
5:01
Speaker 1: So if I don't really like baseball, I can at
5:03
Speaker 1: least enjoy the movies, right right, Yeah, I I guess
5:12
Speaker 1: I did. I didn't pick up on this, but I'm
5:17
Speaker 1: sad that I missed the League of thing my own
5:19
Speaker 1: because I did love it, and that is the topic
5:22
Speaker 1: of our feminist movie Friday this time after Samantha. Yes,
5:26
Speaker 1: she was so disappointed that I hadn't seen it. So
5:30
Speaker 1: I think I'm both disappointed and shocked. It was just
5:33
Speaker 1: like a kind of like I was awe struck that
5:35
Speaker 1: this was not a part of your movie. Yeah, well
5:39
Speaker 1: now it is. Now it is. I'm so happy now
5:42
Speaker 1: it is. Um And yes, this was also partly inspired
5:45
Speaker 1: by our Baseball episode, so you can see that for
5:48
Speaker 1: the real history that inspired this film. Um and Yeah,
5:52
Speaker 1: like we mentioned in that episode, it is getting an
5:54
Speaker 1: Amazon Prime reboot with more Awaren of Color and l
5:57
Speaker 1: g pt Q plus characters and storylines. So yeah, interesting
6:01
Speaker 1: to see where that goes. Also, this is gonna be
6:05
Speaker 1: fun because I wrote the description before I've seen it,
6:09
Speaker 1: So now I'm going to see how accurate I was
6:13
Speaker 1: what you wrote a description before you saw it. Yeah, okay,
6:16
Speaker 1: what do you just kind of like, Okay, this is
6:18
Speaker 1: what I know of it. Well, I knew it was
6:21
Speaker 1: about the history and we had just done that Baseball
6:24
Speaker 1: episode and I was reading articles about the feminism of it.
6:27
Speaker 1: So I was like, okay, um, let's see how this
6:30
Speaker 1: actually plays out. And I already know I got one
6:32
Speaker 1: thing wrong, so that's it's interesting alright. So A League
6:37
Speaker 1: of Their Own is a film directed by Penny Marshall
6:40
Speaker 1: and it started Gina Davis, Rosie O'donnald Madonna, Lori Petty,
6:43
Speaker 1: and Tom Hanks. It went on to make over a
6:46
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars over a hundred million dollars, not one million, UM,
6:50
Speaker 1: making Marshal the first female director in history to have
6:53
Speaker 1: two movies across that mark, the other movie being Big Um,
6:57
Speaker 1: and it also napped two Golden Globe nominations. At the time,
7:01
Speaker 1: this was a pretty big accomplishment in itself to have
7:04
Speaker 1: a movie directed by woman and starring primarily women, and
7:08
Speaker 1: telling a story largely about these women and their relationships
7:11
Speaker 1: with each other, like romance is very minimal in this movie. Um.
7:17
Speaker 1: Women in sports movies were rare too, outside of being
7:21
Speaker 1: usually the support of mother, girlfriend, wife daughter um and
7:26
Speaker 1: Marshall even spoke about this, saying that when Sony signed her,
7:29
Speaker 1: they told her, well even let you make that girl's movie. Wow,
7:34
Speaker 1: how nice of them. Um. It was co written by
7:37
Speaker 1: the son of an EX player and another X player,
7:40
Speaker 1: Levon Davis, consulted on the movie. Yes, and like we
7:44
Speaker 1: said in the previous episode about baseball, it tells the
7:47
Speaker 1: two story of the All American Girls Professional Baseball League,
7:50
Speaker 1: or the A A g p b L. But in
7:54
Speaker 1: brief here's the story. The a A g p b
7:57
Speaker 1: L was one of the first women's leagues and certainly
8:00
Speaker 1: the most successful, established in nineteen forty three when many
8:03
Speaker 1: of the male players left to fight in World War Two.
8:06
Speaker 1: It did continue for about a decade after the war ended,
8:10
Speaker 1: and the film follows some of the players of the league.
8:13
Speaker 1: The actors reportedly trained for months to learn how to
8:15
Speaker 1: play baseball and played real games for footage for the film,
8:18
Speaker 1: which is fantastic. That sounds fun, That sounds painful. Did
8:22
Speaker 1: you see those bruises? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going
8:26
Speaker 1: to talk about that later. But Gina Davis said in
8:28
Speaker 1: an interview, Um, how many bruises and scrapes they got
8:32
Speaker 1: playing in those outfits? And um, we mentioned that briefly
8:36
Speaker 1: in our baseball episode about like how can you you
8:39
Speaker 1: don't have the same protection sliding to basses not helpful. No,
8:45
Speaker 1: they really weren't. They really weren't. Um and this movie
8:49
Speaker 1: is considered to be majorly impactful. In twelve, the Library
8:53
Speaker 1: of Congress chose it to be added to the United
8:54
Speaker 1: States National Film Registry for being quote culturally historically are
8:58
Speaker 1: aesthetically significant And a lot of people and you listeners
9:02
Speaker 1: have expressed how important this movie was in terms of
9:05
Speaker 1: what we believed women could do, what a woman was
9:09
Speaker 1: and could be, And a lot of people described it
9:11
Speaker 1: as an entry point into feminism for them. Several of
9:15
Speaker 1: the baseball players we referenced in that episode the Baseball
9:18
Speaker 1: so mentioned seeing a league of their own as being
9:21
Speaker 1: this formative experience and an inspiration for them. But they'd
9:25
Speaker 1: never known that history, that seeing women play baseball was powerful.
9:31
Speaker 1: It was a great way to tell a story. So
9:33
Speaker 1: speaking of the story, let's talk about the plot. Um.
9:36
Speaker 1: The main characters are Dottie stoic, no nonsense and her
9:40
Speaker 1: husband is away at war in the army. Um Jimmy
9:43
Speaker 1: Dugan played by Tom Hanks, who you know, has some
9:46
Speaker 1: really good iconic lines, who was their alcoholic team manager,
9:50
Speaker 1: which he has That's how you introduced his attempts at Stern,
9:53
Speaker 1: often softened by his demeanor to so nice. He's just
9:57
Speaker 1: the lovable guy. Then you have made nickname all the way.
10:01
Speaker 1: May played by of course Madonna Um, and she's sort
10:05
Speaker 1: of the quote bad girl, always making jokes, smoking cigarettes,
10:08
Speaker 1: having sex to all the lud jokes. I love her.
10:11
Speaker 1: Rosie O'Donnell plays Doris, essentially the embodiment of quote I'm
10:15
Speaker 1: not having it. And then there's Kit, Dottie's younger sister
10:17
Speaker 1: who is sick of being in her shadow, played by
10:20
Speaker 1: Lori Petty Yes. And the movie opens with formal baseball
10:25
Speaker 1: player Dottie Henson played by Gina Davis, attending the opening
10:29
Speaker 1: of an exhibit on the A G P b L
10:32
Speaker 1: at the Baseball Hall of Fame after she's tried to
10:35
Speaker 1: her talk her way out of it. She was very
10:37
Speaker 1: nervous to go, reluctant to go um, but when she
10:41
Speaker 1: gets there, she sees her past friends or colleagues, and
10:46
Speaker 1: she reminisces via flashback of her time as a player
10:49
Speaker 1: for the rock Ford Peaches, which was one of the
10:51
Speaker 1: A A G P b L teams, one of the
10:54
Speaker 1: original founding teams with World War Two threatening baseball in
10:59
Speaker 1: this country, owner of the Harvey Candy Bar Empire, he
11:03
Speaker 1: gets this idea. Basically, this rich guy gets this idea
11:07
Speaker 1: to put together a women's league to save baseball, and
11:11
Speaker 1: the person in charge of recruiting played by John Lovice
11:14
Speaker 1: Caesar play at a local game um and attempts to
11:17
Speaker 1: convince her to try out for the league, but Dottie refuses,
11:21
Speaker 1: saying she's happy with her life on a farm her husband.
11:24
Speaker 1: She's waiting for him to get back. However, her sister
11:27
Speaker 1: Kit is very very excited about this, very eager for
11:31
Speaker 1: something new. She wants to get out of their small
11:34
Speaker 1: town and she is. She goes for it, but the
11:39
Speaker 1: scouting guy tells her she will only be accepted if
11:42
Speaker 1: she convinceds Dottie to come along. That Dottie has the
11:45
Speaker 1: goods and she doesn't. Basically, he's saying that Dottie is
11:48
Speaker 1: very pretty and she is not Um. Also, she didn't
11:51
Speaker 1: play as well in that particular game that he saw. Um.
11:56
Speaker 1: Dottie roulents and agrees for her sister Um. At tryouts,
12:01
Speaker 1: they meet the cast of characters all the way May Doorge, Murphy,
12:04
Speaker 1: Betty Spaghetti Horn, Shirley Baker, Ellen sued Gotlander, Marla Hooge,
12:09
Speaker 1: and several others, all encompassing a wide swath of women
12:12
Speaker 1: and experiences. Those who are chosen. Um. After the tryouts
12:16
Speaker 1: are split to four teams, the Rockford Peaches, the Receiving Bells,
12:19
Speaker 1: the Kenosha Comments, and the South Bend Blue Socks. Right.
12:23
Speaker 1: So the main cast goes on to be a part
12:25
Speaker 1: of the Rockford Peaches, managed by Jimmy Dougan, unfortunately because
12:29
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to be there, but he's doing it
12:31
Speaker 1: because it has to and he can't go to war
12:32
Speaker 1: because of his injury. Blah blah blah. Um. They have
12:35
Speaker 1: to deal with the chaperone and the annoying child of
12:38
Speaker 1: one of the players who was really funny I will
12:40
Speaker 1: say who they later grow to tolerate and even like.
12:43
Speaker 1: The team is covered by Live magazine and there are
12:46
Speaker 1: to do something to catch the public eye to boost
12:49
Speaker 1: flailing attendance. I love those things, by the way. Um,
12:52
Speaker 1: Dottie rises to the challenge catching a ball while doing
12:55
Speaker 1: a split in address in a short skirt. Uh. And
12:59
Speaker 1: this ends up on cover and sure enough, more and
13:01
Speaker 1: more people start to tend the games and they find
13:04
Speaker 1: success friends troop and commoderie. Ya. Yeah, they do encounter
13:09
Speaker 1: plenty of sexism and patriarchy all along the way. I
13:13
Speaker 1: mean from Marla who was hitting just amazing, and then
13:19
Speaker 1: when the scout saw her face was like no because
13:21
Speaker 1: she wasn't traditionally beautiful. And only through Dottie and Kit
13:25
Speaker 1: refusing to go and like a heartfelt speech by her
13:29
Speaker 1: dad did Marlin get to go? Um? And then yeah,
13:33
Speaker 1: when they see the skirts, the uniforms are like, how
13:35
Speaker 1: are these are not baseball uniforms? Are we going to
13:38
Speaker 1: play in that? Um? Yeah, priority is given to more
13:42
Speaker 1: attractive players. There are jeers that women can't play baseball,
13:46
Speaker 1: and of course yeah, there is no crying in baseball. Um,
13:50
Speaker 1: which they often challenge head on. I think it's Ellen
13:52
Speaker 1: sus Or is a baseball at that guy's really fantastic,
13:55
Speaker 1: Like he comes out and does all of this like oh,
13:58
Speaker 1: I'm just a girl and then throws it at his head. Beautiful,
14:02
Speaker 1: maximover beautiful. Yes. Um. When the league was first founded,
14:08
Speaker 1: the players were forced to attend charm school, where they
14:13
Speaker 1: were taught how to wear their makeup, how to wear
14:15
Speaker 1: their clothes, how to wear their hair, how to act.
14:18
Speaker 1: No drinking or smoking, no dating without a chaperone, pretty
14:21
Speaker 1: much no doing anything without chaperone, yep um. And this
14:24
Speaker 1: was presented as selling femininity, the image of the girl
14:28
Speaker 1: next door, particularly to ben overseas, and also to prevent
14:31
Speaker 1: anyone from thinking any of the players were lesbians heaven
14:35
Speaker 1: for did um, even though many of them were. It's
14:40
Speaker 1: never really like in the movie, but true historically. Yes.
14:48
Speaker 1: At one point, Rosie o'donnald's character says, people always made
14:52
Speaker 1: me feel like I was a weird girl or not
14:53
Speaker 1: even a girl, just because I could play. I believed
14:56
Speaker 1: them too, but not anymore. I mean, look at there's
14:58
Speaker 1: a lot of us, right. And then she is up
15:00
Speaker 1: the picture of her boyfriend and throws it out the window,
15:02
Speaker 1: loving it so uh. In the movie, there's a radio
15:06
Speaker 1: report and it goes quote careers, and I want to
15:09
Speaker 1: try to do it like the woman she was so fantastic,
15:12
Speaker 1: But I don't think I can because I don't have
15:13
Speaker 1: that disdain. But I'll try so. Careers in higher education
15:19
Speaker 1: are leading to the masculization of women, with enormously dangerous
15:22
Speaker 1: consequence to the home, the children, and our country. When
15:25
Speaker 1: our boys come home from war, what kind of girls,
15:27
Speaker 1: will they be We're coming home too. So there's also,
15:32
Speaker 1: of course racism, and we did talk a little bit
15:34
Speaker 1: about that in our episode about baseball, black women were
15:37
Speaker 1: not allowed to play in the league, and this is
15:41
Speaker 1: briefly hinted at in one of the scenes where a
15:43
Speaker 1: black player throws a pitch to a very far away
15:46
Speaker 1: catcher and then walks away. And this is supposed to
15:48
Speaker 1: be based on Mammie Johnson who we mentioned in our episode. Yes.
15:54
Speaker 1: As Dottie becomes the star of the team, Kit fumes
15:59
Speaker 1: and there's sibling rivalry reaches the point that Kit is
16:02
Speaker 1: traded to their Scene Bells, which leads to a pretty
16:06
Speaker 1: big fight between them. One of the Peaches team members
16:09
Speaker 1: leaves after learning her husband died in the war, and
16:12
Speaker 1: when Dottie's husband returns injured, she was planning on doing
16:17
Speaker 1: the same. However, she changes her mind and returns for
16:20
Speaker 1: the World Series matchup between the Racine Bells and the
16:23
Speaker 1: Rockford Peaches, pitting the sisters Dottie and Kit against each other.
16:29
Speaker 1: There were Scene Bells, It's a it's a tight game,
16:32
Speaker 1: but the Scene Bells are victorious after Kit ignores the
16:36
Speaker 1: sign from the third base coach to play at stafe
16:38
Speaker 1: and stay there and knocks her sister over on home
16:41
Speaker 1: plate and knocks the ball out of her hands. It's
16:44
Speaker 1: such a great scene. And by the way, the husband
16:46
Speaker 1: is Bill Pullman, justin case no one knew, and I
16:50
Speaker 1: love because he's just on there for like a very blip.
16:52
Speaker 1: But I'm like, yeah, and they showed him in the
16:55
Speaker 1: stands and he's like, that's more what. However, the sisters
17:04
Speaker 1: they do make up after the game, um, and Dottie
17:08
Speaker 1: returns home to the farm to be with her husband,
17:11
Speaker 1: while Kit continues to play. Most of the other women
17:16
Speaker 1: continues to play for a couple of seasons. Um. And
17:19
Speaker 1: through this throughout there's like this undercurrent of when the
17:22
Speaker 1: men get back from war, it's going to be canceled. Um.
17:26
Speaker 1: But uh was his name, Sloan Stein, Sloan's creator. Uh?
17:32
Speaker 1: He that guy. Um, he and I was close. I
17:42
Speaker 1: was close. Uh. Yeah, he stepped in. He proved, well,
17:47
Speaker 1: he didn't prove the women proved, but he he was
17:50
Speaker 1: kind of behind the scenes fighting the fight to to
17:52
Speaker 1: argue that they should continue once Um, the war was
17:56
Speaker 1: over and men came back, and he did for for
17:58
Speaker 1: a couple of seasons, um, and then cut back to
18:03
Speaker 1: flashback over the exhibits and they're all kind of like
18:07
Speaker 1: talking with each other and like, oh, what are you
18:09
Speaker 1: up to these days? Looking at the images, and um,
18:12
Speaker 1: it's very sweet. Yeah, it is really sweet. I do
18:15
Speaker 1: love that. Um. Mr Harvey, the one who created the
18:18
Speaker 1: game essentially, or the teams or the league rather, is
18:22
Speaker 1: played by Gay Marshall. You gotta love that, which is
18:24
Speaker 1: the brother of Penny Marshall. Um. They're such a great
18:27
Speaker 1: duo as feel like. But yeah, I did love the
18:30
Speaker 1: beginning scenes because you see reference to Dottie and no
18:34
Speaker 1: one knowing who she was because she left within the
18:37
Speaker 1: first after the first year, but she could have been
18:39
Speaker 1: one of the greatest players. I think that's how to
18:42
Speaker 1: how they described her out of how amazing she was.
18:44
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. But hey, you gotta do what you gotta do. Yeah,
18:49
Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about that, but first we're
18:51
Speaker 1: gonna pause her quick break for a root from her
18:54
Speaker 1: sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsored. So, yeah, we
19:11
Speaker 1: did want to touch on some things, the first one
19:15
Speaker 1: being feminism. Surprised, so women getting sweaty, dirty athletic and
19:21
Speaker 1: are actually talented? What and at this time, there are trailblazers.
19:25
Speaker 1: For many of the characters, baseball was away and perhaps
19:28
Speaker 1: the only way to escape boring or abusive situations. It
19:31
Speaker 1: was a way for them to have a profession, developed
19:33
Speaker 1: their skills and be compensated, and also to develop female friendships,
19:38
Speaker 1: which is fantastic. They're at times angry, they were sad,
19:41
Speaker 1: They're passionate, they were even lustful Madonna. Um. Yeah, and
19:47
Speaker 1: while I was watching this, I I got I have
19:51
Speaker 1: never really thought about it before, but it is interesting
19:53
Speaker 1: that the especially kind of you know, nostalgic um idea
20:00
Speaker 1: of a father's son bonding moment is playing catch, like
20:04
Speaker 1: you go out and play catch, and there's not really
20:09
Speaker 1: that equivalent with a daughter. Um. I would say I
20:17
Speaker 1: was probably the most active one among my siblings, and
20:20
Speaker 1: my dad and I used to just kick like a
20:23
Speaker 1: soccer ball back and forth, so I guess we had
20:25
Speaker 1: sort of that thing going. But it is interesting, as
20:28
Speaker 1: you say that, because in the characters that you see
20:31
Speaker 1: Marla his speech he says that he treated her like
20:33
Speaker 1: a boy, and you know how to treat her like
20:35
Speaker 1: a girl after the mom dies, and as in fact
20:38
Speaker 1: that you also see Rosie O'donald's father who comes in
20:41
Speaker 1: to watch his games, say he's coming to see his
20:43
Speaker 1: daughter play and he's gonna take her out for a
20:45
Speaker 1: big seake, which is exactly kind of that reminiscent mill
20:49
Speaker 1: father's son bonding, you see, But it's being changed into oh,
20:54
Speaker 1: I can do this with girls too. Yeah. But that's
20:58
Speaker 1: an interesting thing because, like we talked about in our
21:00
Speaker 1: baseball episode, there still is this very like baseball is
21:03
Speaker 1: a masculine thing and they were kind of breaking gender
21:07
Speaker 1: norms by doing it, so like the act in itself
21:13
Speaker 1: is masculinalized. So I still feel like it's got this
21:15
Speaker 1: idea of like, oh, I can bond with my daughter
21:19
Speaker 1: the way I would do with a son. Like it's
21:21
Speaker 1: not like you know what I mean. They're kind of
21:24
Speaker 1: fitting it in to the question of how gendered is
21:29
Speaker 1: the way we raise children? Yeah, and what do we
21:31
Speaker 1: look at Not that I should take away from thinking.
21:33
Speaker 1: If that's what you enjoy, that's wonderful, but it doesn't
21:35
Speaker 1: necessarily mean that we should limited in that scope. That's
21:39
Speaker 1: a big of the big question. I'll leave the phone um. Also,
21:43
Speaker 1: by the way, when this came out, we were in
21:45
Speaker 1: the midst of third way feminism. So it was kind
21:47
Speaker 1: of like a push of hey, look, women did things
21:50
Speaker 1: a long time ago and they can still do things.
21:52
Speaker 1: How about that? Yeah, this was like, uh, you know,
21:56
Speaker 1: Delma Louise also came out Buffy the Vampire Slayer charms,
22:01
Speaker 1: which I could have a fun We've talked about it, like,
22:04
Speaker 1: which is having this resurgence during third weight fabinism um.
22:09
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was a part of that. And then yeah,
22:13
Speaker 1: this idea of like ladylikeness versus manliness and how women
22:18
Speaker 1: or gay athletes entering a sport demasculinates it. And therefore
22:23
Speaker 1: there's this need that we see in the movie to
22:26
Speaker 1: separate women with jesse outfits, to have them go to
22:29
Speaker 1: charm school, to paint them as novelty acts, so as
22:32
Speaker 1: to not threaten gender roles or the masculinity of the sport.
22:38
Speaker 1: Um from Christine Holmond, images of muscular women are disconcerting,
22:44
Speaker 1: even threatening. They disrupt the equation of men with strength
22:47
Speaker 1: and women with weakness that underpins gender roles and power relations,
22:50
Speaker 1: and that has by now come to seem familiar and
22:53
Speaker 1: comforting to both women and men. And I wanted to
22:57
Speaker 1: add in here. I did not get to talk about this.
23:00
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was a thing yet when
23:01
Speaker 1: I did my Last of Us to a review, but
23:05
Speaker 1: I talked about how a lot of m dudes game
23:09
Speaker 1: or dudes are mad at that game. One of my
23:12
Speaker 1: favorite ways they're protesting this game is they're trying to
23:18
Speaker 1: prove that one of the main characters, Abby, who is
23:20
Speaker 1: really really muscular, um, could not be that muscular. It's
23:24
Speaker 1: impossible for her to be that muscular. And they're doing
23:27
Speaker 1: it by following what they call the Abby workout, her workout,
23:31
Speaker 1: and like taking pictures of their muscles, and I'm like, well,
23:34
Speaker 1: I feel like she's had the this fictional character has
23:37
Speaker 1: had the last laugh because you are. But I mean
23:41
Speaker 1: you're improving yourself, right, you're working out a lifting I
23:44
Speaker 1: mean yeah. They do it by the image of this
23:50
Speaker 1: muscular woman. They believed it was impossible, that they started
23:54
Speaker 1: working out to prove it was impossible. So um, all right, um.
24:00
Speaker 1: And I will say that I did read some read
24:03
Speaker 1: the ending of this movie as a returning to patriarchal
24:05
Speaker 1: norms that this was kind of like a gender It's
24:09
Speaker 1: just like nonconforming period where we're breaking all the norms.
24:13
Speaker 1: When Wartime was happening because in their reunion scene they
24:17
Speaker 1: all mentioned their husbands. It's like the first thing I
24:20
Speaker 1: did eventually stop this kind of you know, weird baseball
24:23
Speaker 1: thing I was doing, and I got married and settled
24:25
Speaker 1: down and like doing their patriotic duty when the men
24:30
Speaker 1: were at war by playing and then leaving as part
24:33
Speaker 1: of that when the men returned. Um. So that's that's
24:38
Speaker 1: one interpretation I read um baseball as the American pastime.
24:45
Speaker 1: We definitely talked about this that much when we did
24:48
Speaker 1: the baseball episode, and it occurred to me that both
24:50
Speaker 1: baseball and football North American football are the two sports
24:54
Speaker 1: where I really can't think of a female equivalent. Um,
24:58
Speaker 1: like there is, but you know, as much Maller, they're
25:01
Speaker 1: both American, And I was gonna say, in the female
25:04
Speaker 1: version of the football, American football is lingerie football. That
25:08
Speaker 1: was the only way that could happen. And I'm like,
25:10
Speaker 1: what the bloody hell are you? I could see you
25:14
Speaker 1: censoring yourself and I'm here. That was a pause. But
25:20
Speaker 1: if we do call it the American pastime, if it
25:23
Speaker 1: is that, then excluding women from it means they aren't
25:26
Speaker 1: part of America's story, and that transgressing playing baseball playing
25:32
Speaker 1: this American pastime threatens America itself. That steep stuff. And
25:39
Speaker 1: of course, of course, because this is what we do.
25:42
Speaker 1: Another favorite part of this movie and a theme, is
25:46
Speaker 1: the female friendship. We can live and love and help
25:50
Speaker 1: and support each other, and this movie elevated that. I
25:52
Speaker 1: love it. So it's described in a few places as
25:56
Speaker 1: a buddy movie for women and family movie because you know, sisters,
25:59
Speaker 1: you gotta love the sister's part um. I think they
26:02
Speaker 1: do a great job in telling the stories how they
26:04
Speaker 1: really none of them are competing with each other. There's
26:07
Speaker 1: a little bit of competition between Dottie that's more familial
26:10
Speaker 1: than anything else than gender based. But the rest of
26:13
Speaker 1: them are really good at trying to help each other
26:15
Speaker 1: and push each other. Of course, you do have the
26:18
Speaker 1: catty main girl bit a little bit, yeah, but it's
26:22
Speaker 1: not intense. Yeah. And I really appreciated how like, I
26:27
Speaker 1: mean skill, gotta recognize skill because I feel like in
26:30
Speaker 1: the beginning, Doris and all the way may kind of
26:34
Speaker 1: being braddy to Dottie and then she like, show no,
26:37
Speaker 1: I'm good, and they immediately are like, oh no, I
26:40
Speaker 1: gotta I gotta meet this person. I gotta know how
26:43
Speaker 1: she does what she does, like seeing that the skills
26:49
Speaker 1: and and the areas where the other women excelled, Like,
26:52
Speaker 1: I really liked that part of it. That right, they
26:55
Speaker 1: just respected each other exactly that when they rent through
26:58
Speaker 1: the trials and all of them kind of came out
27:00
Speaker 1: together like, Okay, we're all pretty good. Coo coo cool,
27:02
Speaker 1: we can do this. Um. And every time we talk
27:05
Speaker 1: about Madonna in this movie, Playground, that song comes in
27:10
Speaker 1: at the end of the end of the credits because
27:12
Speaker 1: she used to meet my playground. Oh, I still love
27:17
Speaker 1: that song. I love that song. Oh my god, all
27:20
Speaker 1: the films anyway, Going back, as we were talking about, sisters,
27:23
Speaker 1: Kitty and Dottie step up and it's beautiful for Marla
27:27
Speaker 1: after she's deemed as not attractive enough to play despite
27:31
Speaker 1: displaying a ridiculous talent in her abilities and refusing to
27:36
Speaker 1: get on that train and putting their foot down literally
27:39
Speaker 1: and say we're not leaving without her. I love that. Yeah,
27:43
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of examples of that throughout the film.
27:45
Speaker 1: Another one is one of the players can't read, another
27:50
Speaker 1: one steps up to to help her and does it
27:54
Speaker 1: like in a really kind and gentle empathetic way. And
27:56
Speaker 1: then Madonna later we see Madonna all the way may
28:01
Speaker 1: teaching her how to read. Poor. No, I believe it
28:05
Speaker 1: is a romantic novel. How dare you? You're right? I'm sorry,
28:10
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I've got to get these facts correct. Um. Yeah,
28:14
Speaker 1: just touching examples throughout of them looking out for each other. Um.
28:18
Speaker 1: And then yes, sisterhood. Um, that is a very big
28:21
Speaker 1: theme throughout. Um, this rivalry between Kit and Dottie, where
28:26
Speaker 1: Kit feels like, um, she's living in her sister's shadow,
28:30
Speaker 1: and you do see that. I mean, she's not wrong
28:34
Speaker 1: being told she's not as pretty, she's not as talented.
28:37
Speaker 1: And then Dottie kind of doing the older sister thing
28:40
Speaker 1: where she's very like always giving her tips, always kind
28:45
Speaker 1: of critiquing her kindly, but like you know, always always
28:50
Speaker 1: got the know it all. Yeah. Um, but yeah, and
28:56
Speaker 1: I loved I loved that as well. I was worried
28:59
Speaker 1: when I read. I didn't know that there's like a
29:00
Speaker 1: sister drama in this, and I was like, oh, no,
29:04
Speaker 1: is it going to be super catty? And I mean
29:06
Speaker 1: it got pretty intense, but it was never as bad
29:10
Speaker 1: as I thought. He was going to get it right, yeah,
29:14
Speaker 1: and and you know they in the end, Kit did
29:18
Speaker 1: what she thought was right and she well it paid
29:22
Speaker 1: off for her. YEP. I always thought, though I didn't
29:25
Speaker 1: know for sure, like do you think Dottie did it
29:27
Speaker 1: on purpose? I wondered that I don't know for sure,
29:31
Speaker 1: but I always had this back of my head like
29:34
Speaker 1: did she accidentally or did she actually drop it? Yeah,
29:38
Speaker 1: I don't know. I thought about it too. I think
29:40
Speaker 1: she accidentally, um, because otherwise, I mean, I'd be really
29:50
Speaker 1: cutting for Kit to find out later. They seem like
29:52
Speaker 1: the type that just respected good competition. But also it's possible.
29:56
Speaker 1: I did think it too. I mean, like Dotty knowing
29:58
Speaker 1: this was her last game leaving and then trying to
30:01
Speaker 1: help her sister, maybe she felt like she owed her. Yeah, no,
30:06
Speaker 1: it's definitely possible. Um. I also thought that when she
30:10
Speaker 1: gave Ellen Sue the tip. At first, I was like, oh,
30:13
Speaker 1: is that to help Kit? But then I realized, no,
30:16
Speaker 1: that's what she said in the beginning. M Oh that
30:19
Speaker 1: was going after her for sure. Yeah. There was no
30:22
Speaker 1: mercy on that one. Yeah, But I like I thought
30:28
Speaker 1: their relationship was really fleshed out and I could connect
30:32
Speaker 1: with as someone with siblings. They're no sisters. Um, I
30:35
Speaker 1: can connect with those kind of dynamics. Oh yeah, I
30:39
Speaker 1: have a sister and she was adorable, you know, perfect blonde, small,
30:45
Speaker 1: cheerful woman. And then me coming in coming in literally
30:49
Speaker 1: the adopted girl, m under her shadow. I can definitely
30:53
Speaker 1: feel that in comparison to how am I. It has
30:57
Speaker 1: nothing to do with my sister, has everything to do
30:59
Speaker 1: with my own and security. Reason. I could relate to
31:01
Speaker 1: Kit on that and that childishness to want to prove
31:03
Speaker 1: themselves as beyond and just as good, if not better. Yeah, yeah, um,
31:09
Speaker 1: And I liked how um did you know Tom Hanks's
31:14
Speaker 1: famous line is there's no crying in baseball? But in
31:18
Speaker 1: the end, like, um, he kind of gets to replay
31:21
Speaker 1: the scene and doesn't yell at her when she's tearing up.
31:23
Speaker 1: But then also Kit has that moment that Dottie sees
31:26
Speaker 1: where she's sort of like tearing up and upset and
31:29
Speaker 1: people are kind of being supportive of her. So um,
31:33
Speaker 1: that was nice, nice to see. I loved it good yea. Um,
31:38
Speaker 1: and we did want to talk about the legacy of
31:40
Speaker 1: this movie a little bit before we close out here,
31:42
Speaker 1: But first we're gonna pause for one more quick break
31:44
Speaker 1: for a word from her sponsor, and we're back, Thank
32:00
Speaker 1: you sponsor. So in a Bitch Media article called thanks
32:04
Speaker 1: to Sexism, we still need a League of their own
32:06
Speaker 1: twenty five years later by Brittany Data krzaz Um, she
32:10
Speaker 1: details how many women and girls in baseball still faced
32:15
Speaker 1: the sexism depicted in this movie, down to being outright mocked, um, undermined,
32:20
Speaker 1: and laughed at. She cites the reporting sports journalist Jessica
32:24
Speaker 1: Luther around they recently established girls Travel Baseball, formed by
32:28
Speaker 1: dads and daughters interested in playing the sport, and they
32:31
Speaker 1: encountered all kinds of nonsense, boys teams dropping out of
32:34
Speaker 1: tournaments when they learned they'd have to play against girls,
32:38
Speaker 1: to the point they'd enter only the first initial and
32:40
Speaker 1: the last name on the g TB roster to hide
32:43
Speaker 1: the gender of the players. Um, grown men heckling them. Um,
32:48
Speaker 1: real nice. The MLB didn't ban the practice of hazing
32:52
Speaker 1: rookies by making them wear the A A G P
32:54
Speaker 1: B L outfits until um, of course he's from mail
32:59
Speaker 1: mail rookie. So that's pretty recent, right, and baseball players
33:04
Speaker 1: are still seen as men, as are the fans. Women's
33:08
Speaker 1: clothing is still police, not just in baseball, but in
33:11
Speaker 1: other sports as well and in general. UM Gina Davis
33:16
Speaker 1: shared in interviews that the actors would be covered in
33:18
Speaker 1: scrapes and bruises because they lacked the protection playing that
33:22
Speaker 1: men's clothes would have offered them. I mean, just the
33:25
Speaker 1: scenes of them, they had that hell little montage of
33:28
Speaker 1: all of the injuries they had. I was like, I
33:32
Speaker 1: wasn't paying looking at that. I could not imagine because
33:37
Speaker 1: you were thinking, Okay, so they're expected to play like this,
33:40
Speaker 1: but that they get hit with balls and such. They
33:42
Speaker 1: don't have any covering on them. They're just literal flesh
33:44
Speaker 1: that gets hit by something. What. Yeah, they weren't even
33:49
Speaker 1: wearing helmets. I don't but helmets weren't being used at
33:52
Speaker 1: that point. I guess in any baseball wouldn't. Yeah, I
33:55
Speaker 1: mean it's one of those things were in a weird way.
33:58
Speaker 1: It feels almost and I put heavy quotes on this,
34:01
Speaker 1: but like tougher, Like they had to be tougher than
34:04
Speaker 1: male players because they were being forced to wear these outfits.
34:08
Speaker 1: Um and like I can just imagine because I've had that,
34:13
Speaker 1: like sliding into home base a couple of times without
34:16
Speaker 1: you know, like in short or something, and it hurts,
34:18
Speaker 1: and like the pause that I would take in my
34:21
Speaker 1: brain knowing this is gonna hurt, it can cost you
34:24
Speaker 1: a game because like you're that minute, like split second
34:27
Speaker 1: of oh god, this is gonna hurt. Um, So I'm
34:30
Speaker 1: sure it affected gameplay. Um, and I am. I'm very
34:36
Speaker 1: interested to see what the Amazon Prime show will be like.
34:40
Speaker 1: I'm excited. I'm excited about what that's gonna be like.
34:43
Speaker 1: And by the way, um, I don't know if I
34:44
Speaker 1: didn't know those until looking it up, but Dolores Lee
34:47
Speaker 1: was an extra in the movie who is an a
34:50
Speaker 1: a g p p L player. She was a former
34:53
Speaker 1: player and she was in the stands and one of
34:55
Speaker 1: the things I'll have to go back and look for her,
34:56
Speaker 1: but she was actually in the movie as well, and
34:59
Speaker 1: they do give credit to her, which is nice to see.
35:01
Speaker 1: But I'm really excited to see what the show could
35:04
Speaker 1: look like. That it looks like a lot of good
35:07
Speaker 1: actual storytelling, so as opposed to the movie that you
35:09
Speaker 1: do see a lot of historical things, but they bring
35:12
Speaker 1: in a lot more depth I guess any TV series.
35:15
Speaker 1: But I'm excited to see what that looks like. Yeah, Yeah,
35:18
Speaker 1: me too. Um, And I guess in closing, this movie
35:23
Speaker 1: has a lasting legacy, and it inspired a new wave
35:26
Speaker 1: of players of events honoring players from the movie. But
35:31
Speaker 1: we still have a long way to go. Um, and
35:34
Speaker 1: I'm I'm happy to see some of that progress being made.
35:38
Speaker 1: One of the actors from the film, Megan Kavanagh, told
35:41
Speaker 1: the Chicago Tribune. I hear it all the time, people
35:44
Speaker 1: say we watched the movie on the bus on the
35:45
Speaker 1: way to our games. So many girls say if it
35:49
Speaker 1: wasn't for that movie, they wouldn't have played ball. What
35:52
Speaker 1: more can you ask for? Yeah, I mean I still
35:55
Speaker 1: watch it as a punk get pumped movies sometimes. I
36:00
Speaker 1: told you this was my movie, one of my movies
36:02
Speaker 1: to watch while the election was happening and giving myself
36:07
Speaker 1: some hope. Um, and just really wishing for a different turnout.
36:13
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I guess maybe this year. Any
36:16
Speaker 1: you wanna you wanna join me for my get pumped movies? Yes, okay,
36:22
Speaker 1: so this is this is gonna be my tradition. So
36:24
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be watching the League of their own. I
36:26
Speaker 1: think last time I watched that enough First Wives Club,
36:28
Speaker 1: whichever made you watch before? And I don't know why
36:31
Speaker 1: First Wives Club, but it just made me feel like
36:34
Speaker 1: because well I think actually I do know why now
36:36
Speaker 1: that I thing about it. Um anyway, Um, but just
36:42
Speaker 1: kind of like in hopes that women can just be
36:44
Speaker 1: on top after being wronged so many times. That was
36:47
Speaker 1: kind of that theme. But yeah, we'll have to let's
36:50
Speaker 1: look into that another movie to it. Yeah, I'll I'll
36:54
Speaker 1: think if I have any movies like that, I'm sure do. Yeah. Um.
36:59
Speaker 1: And if you steners, if you have any movies for
37:01
Speaker 1: that list, oh, please send them to us. Um and
37:04
Speaker 1: also let us know what our next movie pick should be.
37:09
Speaker 1: You can email us at stuff Medio, mom Stuff at
37:11
Speaker 1: iHeart media dot com. You can find us on Instagram
37:13
Speaker 1: at Stuff I've Never Told You, are on Twitter at
37:15
Speaker 1: mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always to a super producer,
37:18
Speaker 1: Andrew Howard Things Andrew, and thanks to you for listening
37:22
Speaker 1: Stuff I've Never Told You protection of I heeart Radio
37:24
Speaker 1: for More podcast or my Heart Radio iHeart Radio app,
37:27
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows