Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Mastering Hospitality with Birdie’s: An Exclusive Conversation with Tracy & Arjav Ep. 143

Transcript

Mastering Hospitality with Birdie’s: An Exclusive Conversation with Tracy & Arjav Ep. 143 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
Hello chef's this is Chef's PSA. I'm your host Andre Natara.
0:03
On today's episode I have our job Ezekiel and Tracy Malachek
0:07
Ezekiel. They're the Co owners of
0:09
Bertie's restaurant in Austin, TX, which was Food and Wine
0:12
Magazine's restaurant of the year in 2023.
0:15
Chef Tracy was a finalist for the James Beard Foundation Best
0:18
Chef Texas in 2024 and our job was a semi finalist for the
0:23
James Fear Foundation Award for Beverage Service in 2025.
0:26
Between the two of them, they have a tremendous amount of
0:29
accolades. In this episode, we keep it
0:31
simple, but it's a great conversation.
0:33
We talk about hospitality and cooking.
0:35
Stay tuned. There's a lot to unpack here,
0:48
but I think one of the things that has really meant a lot to
0:51
me over the years is going to restaurants and feeling seen.
0:56
I think like one of the the magical pieces of restaurants
0:59
and something I think is really important for restaurants to be
1:02
thinking more and more about is having a point of view in the
1:08
dining room. Something we talked a lot about
1:10
at Birdies is making sure, especially in a counter service
1:14
environment, can feel so transactional.
1:16
But like one of the magical pieces of it I think are when we
1:18
can do like really bespoke things for our guests.
1:23
You know, people have hard days sometimes and they come into
1:25
restaurants looking for love, empathy and a place to just kind
1:28
of melt away. And when we can see that and do
1:32
things to help get them to that place, it's a, it's a win for
1:37
the restaurant, it's a win for the industry.
1:40
And I think it's a, a win for the guest.
1:41
And I think those things are really, really material and
1:44
important, you know? One of the things that we were
1:46
talking about before we started recording was how sometimes, you
1:50
know, the industry gets a bad rap, but we don't talk about all
1:53
the positives that go into the industry.
1:55
You, I mean, you were just saying right now how we were the
1:57
first ones culinary industry. We're the first ones to step up
1:59
for the fires and you know, we're the first one to give in
2:03
charity. You're involved with World
2:04
Central Kitchen and I don't think enough people talk about
2:07
the good that the restaurant industry, the culinary culinary
2:11
industry that chefs do. I, I totally agree.
2:14
I think, you know, for me, like the best part of this industry
2:17
has always been the people. And I think it's so important
2:21
for us to talk about the generosity most restaurants
2:25
exhibit on a day-to-day basis, whether it's within their
2:28
community, whether it's with their teams.
2:30
You know, we, we went through this period of reckoning, I
2:33
think with the toxicity conversation.
2:35
But I think we're mostly out of it now.
2:37
And I think it's really, really important for us to be talking
2:40
about all the good restaurants do, nourishing people's souls
2:45
and nourishing our communities. I think it's not something we
2:47
talk about enough. Providing jobs for a lot of
2:49
people that couldn't get jobs right.
2:51
The restaurant industry has always been the one place like,
2:54
you know, if if if things aren't goable, you can always go back
2:57
to cooking. Like what's that expression?
2:59
You know, as long as you if you know how to cook, you'll always
3:00
have a job or. Something like that.
3:02
Yeah. Yeah.
3:03
I mean, look at, you know, the LA fires.
3:06
Any kind of of issue that happens, restaurant folks always
3:09
step up. And as most people know,
3:12
restaurant tours typically aren't in it to get rich.
3:15
We do it because we love it and we have a passion for the craft
3:18
of cooking and or of taking care of people.
3:21
And I think that generosity and that level of humanity really
3:25
comes out. And, you know, whenever I see
3:28
it, you know, something terrible that happens.
3:30
I have so much pride in our industry in the way, that, you
3:33
know, our fellow restaurant tours, Step up, help out, you
3:36
know, and these aren't, as we know, restaurants.
3:39
They're not gazillionaires, You're not, they're not these
3:41
big fancy companies with a ton of money.
3:43
But it's all just kind of that attitude of like, let's do what
3:46
we can. Let's help people, let's do the
3:48
right thing. And I love that.
3:50
You know, it's funny you say, you know, we're not
3:52
gazillionaires, you know, the restaurant industry.
3:54
But it, it's, it seems to be like the number one gripe that a
3:57
lot of cooks and chefs have when they're coming into the
3:59
industry. It's like, I can make no money.
4:00
I have to work two jobs. I'm sure this conversation has
4:05
come up a lot. Have you have you figured out a
4:11
way to solve that issue? Because I don't talk about it
4:13
often because it's like I don't have a solution.
4:16
You know, restaurants have small margins.
4:17
You know, you're, you have to deal with food cost, labor cost.
4:19
You have to have a busy restaurant and restaurants are
4:22
your restaurants very busy. But not all restaurants are busy
4:24
everyday, right? And it's one of the more
4:27
challenging things is that I often get presented with the
4:31
with, with the challenge. Like, how would I solve it?
4:33
It's like why I don't have an answer.
4:34
That's why I don't talk about it, because I don't know how you
4:37
solve it. Well, I think, I mean I don't
4:39
know if we've solved it. I think we have bridged the gap
4:42
and I think one of the most important things you mentioned
4:44
it is talk about margin. You can't do anything before you
4:47
start thinking about your margin, right.
4:49
So like our, our intent with doing kind of a counter service
4:52
fine dining restaurant, the big wine list was we have to shift a
4:57
little bit of the burden onto the gas and say this is maybe a
5:00
little less convenient than having like a reservation and a
5:03
plan. But what we, that means is we
5:05
get to be an extremely lean labor model.
5:08
And one of the benefits of being in Texas is we don't, you know,
5:10
we don't take the tip to minimum like the tip credit.
5:15
So everybody at Bertie's starts off at between 8:00 and $9 an
5:20
hour plus tips. Then the the benefit of that is
5:25
that like the cooks get tipped out, the dishwashers get tipped
5:28
out all full. Time.
5:30
Yeah, yeah, correct. And, and the benefit of that is
5:33
that like it's based on the number of hours you work.
5:36
And I think it's really important to build a meritocracy
5:41
and a merit based system. And the the benefit for us is
5:45
like we always ask ourselves, is this good for the restaurant?
5:47
Is this good for our team? Is this good for our community
5:50
and is this good for our investors?
5:51
In that order. And I think, you know, often
5:55
times like restaurant tours begin the conversation with, I
5:57
want to take care of my team. And that is a really important
6:00
thing to start with. But you can't really take care
6:02
of your team if you can't take care of yourself.
6:04
We often use the analogy of like making sure the oxygen mask is
6:08
on yourself before you put it on, you know, your kid.
6:11
But like, I think one of the things we talked about toxicity
6:13
a little bit, I think part of the toxicity, like my thesis
6:16
behind why there was so much toxicity.
6:18
So there's a lot of pressure on ownership, but there's a lot of
6:21
pressure on the chefs and the owners of restaurants because
6:24
margins are so thin. So till you can solve for the
6:27
margin issue, you can't really solve for anything else.
6:30
Yeah, and that's the thing that most people don't talk about it
6:32
it it really is. You have an immense amount of
6:34
pressure top and bottom, you know, top pressure coming from
6:38
investors, owners, chef, you know, we need to make food
6:40
costs, labor's too high, whatever.
6:42
And then bottom compression, it's like, can I get a day off?
6:45
I need the weekends off. Hey, so and so's being mean to
6:47
me. So and then, you know, sometimes
6:50
chefs have, you know, meltdowns and and you wonder why it's
6:53
like, well, it's not an easy job.
6:55
There's a lot of pressure involved and there's a there's a
7:00
big financial investment that usually goes into a restaurant
7:02
and then a small margin on the back end.
7:04
So. But like, you know, one of the
7:06
things we did was like, we knew that and we made a conscious
7:09
effort not to overinvest. We bought our plates from
7:12
crate&barrel for $1.99 each when we opened.
7:14
And then we like realized we could buy better things.
7:18
Like we're upgrading our sound system next week for the first
7:20
time because the first sound system we bought was like a
7:23
bunch of Bose speakers, like tethered together by wireless.
7:26
That obviously doesn't work that great, but it was enough to open
7:29
the restaurant. You know what I mean, I think.
7:30
A house party vibe, yeah, I'll. I'll tell you what you know.
7:33
I, I know we, we glossed over and I know your restaurant, but
7:36
a lot of people that are listening don't know your
7:37
restaurant. And I think you have one of the
7:39
most unique models for any restaurant.
7:42
Can you explain like, like I want to explain everything like
7:47
from the, the arrival experience to what it looks like.
7:50
And for someone that's never been to birdies, what what to
7:54
expect when they go and what the thought process was in creating
7:59
that sort of in creating that system of a restaurant.
8:02
Sure. So we wanted to have and create
8:06
everything we loved about a restaurant, but remove some of
8:09
the things we didn't need to have.
8:12
So we call birdies fine dining counter service.
8:18
So you arrive to birdies. Maybe there's a line on a busy
8:22
Friday, Saturday, maybe there's not.
8:23
It just depends on the day. When the lines long, we do what
8:27
we call wine in line. We also serve non alcoholic
8:30
beverages in line so people can, you know, have a a drink and
8:34
stay hydrated while they're waiting and catch up with their
8:36
friends. No reservations.
8:39
No reservations. No reservations.
8:40
Show up, just show up and then you order at the counter.
8:44
The counter person just explains and spiels the menu who we are,
8:49
what we do. And then once you place your
8:52
order you grab your flag and then you pick a seat inside or
8:55
outside. So the insides, 25 seats
8:58
outsides fiftyish seats. So the inside, I like to say,
9:02
feels like New York. The outside feels like Austin.
9:05
OK. And I agree with that by the.
9:07
Way, thank you. Thank you.
9:08
And then essentially once you sit down, it transitions to a
9:11
full service kind of traditional restaurant experience where you
9:14
have hospitality touches from our servers.
9:18
Our dining room team is just so amazing and warm and checking up
9:22
on things, you know, do you need another beverage, another dish?
9:25
We, the way I paste things, whether it's myself or my
9:29
executive sous chef expediting that night, we expedite like
9:33
it's a normal fine dining restaurant where we don't, if
9:36
you order, let's say 7 things, everything isn't order fired all
9:38
at once. We'll course it out.
9:40
So it's a nice experience. Of course, if someone has kids,
9:44
we try to, you know, go that extra mile and hey, do you need
9:46
to be out quickly? Do you have an out by time?
9:48
Because we have a toddler and we know sometimes when we're dining
9:51
with him, we got to go. So we really just try to, we try
9:56
to be a neighborhood spot that's elevated.
9:59
And that's why we just wanted to create.
10:00
You can have a fantastic bottle of wine or you could have a
10:02
Miller High Life. Yeah.
10:04
And so if someone's coming in and they're ordering and they
10:06
have allergies, how do you handle that?
10:08
Just curious because like it's probably an issue.
10:10
Yeah, well, especially because I changed the menu all the time
10:13
and it's always hard to keep up. So it's always a conversation
10:16
where thankfully the way our restaurants laid out is the
10:19
counter person is like 7 feet away from Expo.
10:23
So they can just say, hey, you know, double confirming we can
10:26
do XYZ dishes. It's these allergies.
10:29
We'll do a, a verbal confirmation and then they'll
10:32
also indicate on the ticket, you know, we have an allergy stamp.
10:35
We'll we'll notate that on the ticket as well.
10:38
Make that exception, whatever it is, if it's a what type of
10:40
allergy, if it's like a cross contamination issue.
10:44
And then we kind of go from there.
10:46
And I mean, out of curiosity, I've never seen this model by
10:49
the way, I think yours was the first time I've ever seen it
10:52
where you're doing elevated fine dining, but you're ordering at a
10:57
counter. Is this something that you came
10:59
up with or is had been done before?
11:01
I'm just curious. I've never seen it so.
11:03
We were inspired by some places at lunch in Los Angeles.
11:07
Squirrel and Destroyer were the two big ones serving elevated,
11:10
really thoughtful, delicious food from the counter service
11:14
model we had never seen it done with for dinner or for like with
11:18
an extensive beverage program. How many wine bottles are on the
11:22
list? And we have like 350 bottles on
11:25
the list at any given time. But I think, you know, to, to
11:27
kind of close the loop on what Tracy's talking about.
11:29
I think the thing that was always missing to me those
11:32
counter service restaurants was hospitality.
11:34
And I think that's really the edge that kind of I think has
11:39
been the secret sauce to like, what has made our restaurant,
11:42
you know, work for us is that it's a reflection at the end of
11:45
the day of the two of us. And we wanted to feel like an
11:48
extension of our home to some degree.
11:49
So, you know, I think for better or worse, like all our quirks,
11:54
our idiosyncrasies are reflected in the restaurant in many ways.
11:59
And I think, you know, for me, like the most important thing at
12:03
a restaurant has always been getting a sense as to like a
12:06
personality. Like, I think there's
12:08
restaurants you walk into and you're like, oh, like, I don't
12:10
like, I, I feel connected to this person because I, I feel
12:14
like I know what kind of music they listen to, you know, what
12:17
kind of car they drive, what kind of clothes they wear based
12:19
on just like the way and the vibe of the restaurant.
12:22
And I think for us, like, the restaurant had to have a level
12:26
of warmth to it because I, I, you know, I grew up in an Indian
12:30
family and like, food and hospitality were like
12:34
inextricably linked. And I think the way our
12:39
restaurant has always operated is 1.
12:41
Like, there's some rules around hospitality, right?
12:43
Like we treat solo diners, for example, like royalty.
12:46
I think it's like the ultimate compliment when someone wants to
12:48
eat at your restaurant by themselves with a book.
12:51
So we always do something special for them.
12:52
But I think the difference is no.
12:55
I preach this all the time. It's like when I when it's
12:56
someone's birthday, for example, it is so easy to just send them
12:59
an extra dessert. Happy birthday on.
13:01
On a plate. And I think, and to me that
13:03
feels lazy. It's lazy.
13:06
And I think one of the things we've like, really tried to
13:09
incorporate is like, find out more, ask questions, be good
13:12
listeners. Like those are the things we
13:14
talk about even in the spiel, like when someone greets you,
13:17
when you sit down after you place your order.
13:19
There's a formula where people are allowed to improvise around
13:23
to make it themselves. But we need to be hitting these
13:25
four points and one of them is active listening, which is have
13:29
you been here before? I have.
13:30
OK, then ask a follow up question.
13:32
That's not good enough. When was the last time you were
13:33
here? Right.
13:35
So we have a little more data and we always like the thing we
13:37
always say is always be collecting dots.
13:39
So you can always be connecting dots.
13:41
And part of that is like, OK, what year were you born?
13:45
Oh, you born in 1987? Hey, do we have any like Madeira
13:47
from 1987 that we can pour them as a little treat at the end?
13:50
That feels like a way more notable birthday gift than
13:55
putting a happy birthday candle on something.
13:57
When, when I ate at your restaurant, I I thought it was
14:01
some of the most intuitive service that I've had probably
14:05
in Austin. If I'm, if I'm being very
14:07
honest, like I, I don't think I've had a better service
14:09
experience. I mean, arguably in, in quite
14:13
some time. And I'm saying in Austin, but
14:15
I'm also thinking in other cities.
14:16
I'm like, I mean, I could argue that that's really one of the
14:19
best. And I remember, you know, I'm
14:21
sitting there with David Sousio, who who's also a podcaster,
14:24
shout out to him. And we're sitting at at the at
14:27
the at the chef's counter, right?
14:28
Is that, is that what you call it?
14:29
Yeah. And you're asking questions and
14:33
I got something special. And I'm not a big wine drinker,
14:35
but you're you're hooking David up with stuff and he's so
14:38
excited about it. And you got something special
14:41
for me. And I'm like, thank you.
14:42
And it's like, you knew what I drank like in one question and
14:48
you nailed it perfectly. Thanks.
14:50
Like, I don't even remember what your question was like doing.
14:52
And I said, I don't really drink wine.
14:53
And you're like, do you like this?
14:54
And I was like, yeah. And then boom, it's there.
14:56
And it's like incredible. Now, the reason I wanted to
15:01
bring this up is because I was so impressed by what you did and
15:07
the service that you were giving.
15:09
But how do you scale that to a team of people that, hey, it's
15:12
my first day on the job? And how do you transfer some of
15:16
that magic to new employees? Because I mean really, if you
15:19
could figure that out like you've solved most of the
15:23
problems. I mean, Teresa and I both worked
15:24
for Danny Meyer for a long time. And I think one of the things
15:27
you learn very early on in your tenure working for him is you
15:30
hire for personality, not for skill set.
15:34
And I think it's so easy. And I think we've fallen into
15:36
this trap before where we hire for skill set because we think
15:40
it's going to make our life easier, but it actually makes
15:42
our life harder because they're not good cultural fits.
15:45
So we we hire people who have a natural proclivity for
15:49
hospitality. It's like part of their DNA.
15:51
And then we teach them how to deploy that in a way that's
15:55
makes sense to the restaurant, right.
15:57
And I think, you know, there are people at this restaurant that
16:00
have more hospitality and them and are further along.
16:03
They're kind of curved than I was at their that at their age.
16:06
We just want to be able to provide them the structure and
16:08
the tools to be able to do that. So, you know, we ask a lot of
16:11
deep questions when we're hiring people and that feel maybe a
16:14
little almost intrusive. You know, like we ask them
16:17
questions like like if someone was having, if you were having a
16:21
dinner party, what are the first 3 things you do for somebody
16:23
when they get to your house? Well, I.
16:24
Mean sense of arrival first thing right when you welcome
16:26
them at the door. Exactly.
16:28
But like, you can tell them like, like, you know, but
16:30
someone's like, first thing we do is we offer to take their
16:33
coats, offer them a beverage, and then we sit, sit them down
16:37
and offer them a little snack while we kind of catch up before
16:39
dinner. That's like, oh, OK, there's a
16:41
template here for like, you understand hospitality
16:45
intuitively. I don't have to teach you those
16:47
things, you know? So like, I think part of it is
16:49
being, again, a good question asker and then listening
16:52
actively to what people say. But.
16:54
It's, it's so interesting what you're talking about, how you
16:56
were talking about earlier connecting the dots, like ask
16:58
this question and what's the follow up?
17:01
I, I know this from doing podcasts and having, you know, a
17:05
bunch of friends and all I do is talk to people.
17:06
That's my job now is a lot of people don't know how to
17:09
communicate. So how do you teach someone
17:11
that's 21 years old, it's their second job right out of college
17:15
and they're they're, they're working for you.
17:17
It's like, how do you teach them?
17:19
Like they think they know how to have a conversation and connect
17:21
the dots, but you're watching them and they don't.
17:23
So how do you give them those skills?
17:25
Is there like a blueprint that you give people for that?
17:27
Constant gentle pressure. Yeah.
17:29
There you go. Yeah.
17:31
It's like a, it's a, you know, we're, we're still growing like
17:34
we, we have an executive coach now that has like helped us grow
17:37
tremendously over the last year, become better communicators
17:41
within like our relationship within our work relationship
17:44
within like the management group, you know, so I think, I
17:47
think it's so easy to be like, well, I'm good at this,
17:50
therefore, but like, the truth is like, none of us are great at
17:54
anything and we're always trying to achieve that.
17:56
And like, that's the fuel that keeps us going.
17:58
And I think Tracy's cooking is reflective of that, like her
18:01
cooking style, you know, some of the dishes she cooks today
18:04
compared to like even the dishes she cooked during the opening
18:07
menu, there's an evolution on confidence that you continue to
18:10
see. And her like cooking, like my
18:13
communication has gotten better and better over the last few
18:16
years. I think her communication has
18:18
gotten better. But I think part of it is just
18:20
like if, if our, you know, we're in our business everyday and
18:23
people see us pushing all the time.
18:25
And it's kind of like the the like Kobe, Steph Curry, like
18:29
those analogies because it's like, if the best player on your
18:32
team is the hardest worker, then there's no reason for you not to
18:35
take coaching. You know what I mean?
18:36
If we're taking coaching every day.
18:38
Yeah, How do you know on the subject of hospitality, like I'm
18:44
sure because like I said, I, I, I give you a tremendous amount
18:47
of credit. Like your hospitality skills are
18:48
excellent, but when you go to other restaurants, I'm sure you
18:52
see things that kind of like grind your gears now if you
18:55
wanted to. This is chef's PSA.
18:57
So we're improving the world here.
18:58
So if you wanted to give people some advice like what are some
19:01
simple actionable steps that people could take in their
19:03
restaurants now to offer a better hospitality experience?
19:07
And it could be generally you could be very specific it's.
19:09
Important to over communicate, you know, I think restaurants
19:11
like the absence of communication leads to like
19:14
people telling them they're like telling themselves their own
19:16
stories and their own narratives.
19:18
And I think it's really important to over communicate
19:21
with guests, over communicate with your team.
19:23
And I think, you know, like to answer your question like on the
19:26
nose, like what can restaurants do better?
19:29
I think they need to invest and bring back the maitre-d' like
19:33
the maitre-d' like like an old school maitre-d' who could work
19:36
the floor, I think and like a run service in a real way.
19:41
I think that is the key ingredient because I think, you
19:44
know, people assume that people come back just for food and I
19:48
don't think that's true anymore. There's just too much
19:50
competition. And I think the way you
19:52
differentiate yourself now is in the dining room, you know what I
19:55
mean? I think you can have incredible
19:57
food and a terrible experience in the dining room, and it's not
20:00
going to make you want to come back, you know?
20:02
But if you have both things like humming at a high level, it
20:07
makes an experience magical. And you think about all the best
20:10
restaurants in the world. It's not just one side of the
20:13
coin, you know? And I think, like, what Will
20:15
Gedera did at EMP in New York, like, I think that like what
20:20
Danny has done with his restaurants.
20:21
You see the people who have scaled their restaurants.
20:25
You know, I'm thinking about Danny here in particular.
20:28
There's been an emphasis on the dining room because he
20:30
understands that people connect with restaurants through their
20:33
interactions with the dining room.
20:35
The food has to be good. That needs to be like a, a
20:39
baseline operation. What you can't, you assume when
20:41
you come to birdies that you can expect an incredible meal.
20:44
The thing that catches you by surprise is the hospitality.
20:47
And I think that is what people need to be investing more in now
20:51
because there's a huge like, you know, there's a lot of talent in
20:55
the kitchen. I think the dining room side has
20:57
been under invested in and there's less talent kind of
21:01
waiting to like jump in because we haven't talked about it as a
21:03
meaningful. Career from you no, and I think
21:05
you hit the nail on the head. It's like there's there's
21:08
there's career professionals in in in the dining room and I've
21:11
I've worked with some great ones.
21:13
You're a great one as well. And but I only know a few like
21:18
like if someone because I get the phone call often, like, Hey,
21:20
do you have a chef Easy. I have a lot of them.
21:22
Hey, do you have someone good for the, for the service team?
21:25
I got 2. You know, I got two people that
21:28
I would call that. That's, that's pretty much it.
21:31
But why do you think that is? Like why?
21:32
Why have we not put enough focus on the dining room side like we
21:35
do on the culinary side? I felt like there were more that
21:41
I worked with in New York that I saw.
21:43
Like I felt like, I don't know. I feel like I knew a lot of
21:45
dining room people who were like really long term professionals.
21:50
That's just me personally. Maybe it was like I was at Grand
21:52
Mercy Tavern for three years and there were so many people who'd
21:57
been there for 2530 years. Because there's a conversation
22:00
in New York where you can be a career waiter and make 6 figures
22:02
a year and like, live a really good life, right?
22:06
You think that's changing in Austin?
22:07
I mean, there's a lot of there's a lot.
22:08
Of that's changing in Austin, but I think that there's a
22:09
conversation piece that's missing, right, which is like
22:12
this is actually like a really good career and a meaningful
22:14
career for the right person. And I think, but it's also a
22:18
pendulum thing, right, Like you think about like if you like
22:20
think about the history of restaurants, it began with like
22:22
the power of the restaurant tour, right, And then slowly
22:26
over time, that move towards like chefs controlling
22:29
everything. I think of Dave Chang as kind of
22:30
being the like face of that movement in the early aughts
22:34
where it's like this is what we're eating, like you have no
22:37
choice, you're at my restaurant. This is what's happening.
22:40
And that's kind of like shifted then with EMPI think when you
22:44
saw more balance, right? Like it was the first time I can
22:47
think of a restaurant that like had a dining room personality
22:51
that was as strong as the kitchen personality.
22:54
And they moved to #1 restaurant in the world, right?
22:57
I think Thomas Keller has always understood this.
22:59
Like the best hospitality I've ever had at a restaurant has
23:02
been at the French Laundry because it was fun.
23:05
You assume it's not. And there's like an element, I
23:07
think in fine dining where people go to fine and forget the
23:10
fun. And I think sometimes in the
23:12
cash you feel. Like I'm comfortable to do
23:15
anything because the captain's like, glaring at you if you do
23:19
something wrong. But the opposite's also true.
23:21
Like I think casual restaurants can be sloppy.
23:24
And I think, and I think there's a line between the two where you
23:27
have to under like we always talk about service of our
23:29
restaurant as jazz, right? Like you have to have a
23:32
fundamental understanding of what the classics are before you
23:35
can improvise. And I think what we try and
23:37
teach during training is the classics like no backhanding,
23:41
like how to properly pour a glass of wine, how to properly
23:43
open a bottle of wine. But then we allow people to
23:45
break those rules depending on what service is doing on a given
23:50
night. If we're rocking, I'm not going
23:51
to bust your chops about like backhanding someone when we're
23:54
slow. I will like, what's your excuse?
23:56
You know what I mean? I think those are the kind of
23:58
things we think about a lot. But like, for us, our service is
24:02
predicated on her food, right? Our wine list is predicated on
24:05
on the kitchen. So like, you know, for us, like
24:07
we take our cues from the way Tracy is leading Tracy's
24:10
cooking, there's a lot of things for us because we're a
24:15
partnership where, like, everything she's doing has to be
24:19
reflected in the dining room, which is Tracy's food is really
24:22
precise, deeply technical, but on the outside looks simple and
24:27
effortless. And the same thing needs to be
24:28
true in the dining room, where there's everything is rooted in
24:31
a lot of technical elements, but it should feel effortless and
24:34
fun. Which brings me to, to your
24:39
food. I was talking with him.
24:41
I was in, I was in Charleston last week and I was having a
24:43
good conversation with somebody. We were talking about Gramercy
24:45
Tavern and the, the guy that I was talking to was talking about
24:51
how great Gramercy is and how the food is just amazing, blah,
24:53
blah, blah. He was trying to explain what it
24:55
is like he was trying to, he was trying to put in a box.
25:00
And then I had mentioned your food in in conversation and then
25:04
I was like trying to put it in a box like your food.
25:07
And I'll tell you how I described your food.
25:10
So I, I, I hope that I did it justice.
25:12
I said your food tastes like, if you have a chef that's extremely
25:18
talented and they invited you over to their house and they
25:21
cooked for you like they loved you, That's what your food
25:24
tastes like. Oh.
25:25
My gosh, I'm going to cry. That's so nice.
25:27
Thank you. Yeah, that's that's why I
25:28
explain. It's like they're not cooking to
25:30
show off. They're cooking because they
25:31
love you. A really talented chef cooking
25:34
like they love you. That's your food.
25:36
Thank you. And when I ate at the counter
25:38
there, you know, I was sitting, you know, with David Sue.
25:40
He's also an extremely talented chef, you know, worked in
25:44
Meadowood 3 Michelin stars. Like, he's, he's great.
25:47
He's he's a total badass, you know, ran Charter Oak.
25:49
He knows food. And when we were like chefs do,
25:52
we're looking at the food. And you sent over a fish dish.
25:54
I don't remember exactly what was on.
25:55
It was a seared fish, maybe some beans underneath.
26:00
And he says, you see this fish? I said, yeah, he's like a lot of
26:03
chefs would say it needs a little more this or it needs a
26:05
little more that. And he says, and they'd be
26:07
fucking idiots because this is perfect.
26:09
And I, I tend to agree with him. Every single course that you
26:12
sent out was just seasoned. Well, it was technical.
26:18
It was beautiful, It was delicious.
26:20
It was cooked right. But it was also not silly.
26:26
Yeah. I don't know how else to explain
26:27
it. Like it wasn't.
26:27
It wasn't silly. And you also served a soup
26:31
course, which I think we were talking about this, like, what
26:34
happened to soup? Like soup used to be cool.
26:36
When did when did soup? When did soup not become cool
26:39
anymore? Yeah.
26:41
But anyway, I just wanted to make sure I told you that your
26:43
food was a really incredible. And.
26:44
And one more thing that I want to say, because obviously I'm in
26:48
the business too, and I have strong, I have a whole podcast
26:50
about my strong opinions, right? I mean, it's what I do for a
26:54
living as I have strong opinions about how kitchens are run.
26:56
I'm and I'm not always right, but one of the things that I saw
27:00
is every single time I'm I'm watching you and, and, and I'm
27:03
watching your cooks in the kitchen and it's like the way
27:06
they're slicing the meat. So the, the cook that was right
27:08
in front of me has his board and he's slicing and he wipes it
27:10
down and then he puts it on a little tray, you know, with the,
27:13
I don't know if it was AC folder served yet, but he's, he's
27:16
dabbing it. And then the other cook is over
27:18
here tossing the pasta in the pan a lot of time to, to
27:21
emulsify a little pasta water, squeeze lemon taste.
27:23
Nope. And I'm watching all that is
27:25
like, what's interesting to the to the person that to the person
27:30
that's not a chef is getting lost on them, but to the person
27:32
that is a chef and understands what's happening here is like
27:34
needs acid, you know, emulsify the pasta with the sauce, drain
27:40
the steak. And there's so much little
27:42
technical details that are required to make really
27:49
delicious, simple food seem effortless.
27:52
But it's, it's extremely complicated because there was a
27:55
lot of difficult. I was seeing about 100 little
27:57
things that you did in the kitchen that made it look that
28:01
that, that I know are hard. But when it's on the place,
28:04
well, you made it look easy. It's just fish with, you know,
28:06
that's all it is. But it's like, no, no, no, no.
28:08
There's about 1000 little things that had to happen for that that
28:11
was just fish. So.
28:12
Yeah, so I, I, I think something I always say is simple and isn't
28:16
easy. And I know it's a common phrase
28:18
a lot of with a lot of chefs and a lot of new cooks kind of take
28:22
a minute to, you know, get a grasp of our cuisine really,
28:26
which is really a respect for tradition of French technique.
28:31
And a lot of kind of like Roger, Roger and a lot of chefs of that
28:38
movement in France are really inspiring to me.
28:42
You know, a lot of reductions of juices and things like that.
28:47
So it's not all dairy, dairy, dairy.
28:50
That in conjunction with being inspired by the Italian
28:52
grandmother. So there's a little bit of
28:54
attention on the menu. Whereas the Italian like the
28:56
pastas for example, I don't do anything weird.
29:00
I'm not going to put what I would call maybe a silly, I
29:03
don't want to judge on their chef, but for me, not necessary
29:06
garnish on something that doesn't make sense or that's not
29:09
rooted in tradition of an Italian grandmother of a certain
29:11
region of Italy. Maybe I'm using something that's
29:14
growing here that might not be growing in Italy, but we do get
29:17
a lot of the same ingredients growing.
29:19
Sometimes we get different ones. And so for me, it's like, OK,
29:21
what are local farmers growing? That's the inspiration for the
29:24
dish under the umbrella of what an Italian grandmother would do.
29:27
And so understanding, you know, and then certain Italian dishes,
29:32
like sometimes we'll do this like, like a broccoli with like
29:34
anchovy and garlic, very simple Roman inspired dish.
29:38
And it's literally like three ingredients.
29:42
However, it's so hard to teach, to do it perfectly.
29:45
And then sometimes the newer cooks as well don't understand
29:48
that rustic and sloppy are two very different things.
29:50
Yeah. Can you can you expand upon that
29:52
specific thing? So Rustic is kind of, in my
29:56
mind, like the celebration of something naturally without a
30:00
lot of things done to it, without a lot of manipulation.
30:05
And then sloppy is just kind of careless.
30:07
Burning some onions or garlic at the base of your sauce or soup,
30:11
that's just sloppy. That's not good cooking, you
30:13
know? And so I think for us cooking
30:16
simple food that is rooted in a lot of technique, things like
30:20
making soups, for example, we've like people joke like, oh,
30:23
you're a soup restaurant. It's because there is such a
30:25
respect for technique of sweating the garlic at the right
30:29
heat with the right amount of olive oil, seasoning at the very
30:32
beginning with salt and white or black pepper, depending on what
30:35
that dish is, and seasoning at every single step, reducing
30:39
everything the the right amount for that dish.
30:42
Sometimes you might want a little more wine flavor in that
30:45
finished dish and you don't want to add citrus or vinegar at the
30:47
end. So maybe you don't reduce it all
30:49
the way for that dish. And so just like all of these
30:51
little nuances are so important to making a very simple whatever
30:57
soup, cauliflower, brown butter, whatever that is, all of those
31:00
points are so important. Browning the butter to the right
31:02
level almost till it's black if you want to get that really
31:05
delicious nutty flavour. Otherwise it just tastes like
31:08
fatty film on your tongue. All of these very like simple
31:13
techniques go into making one soup, you know, and people say
31:16
what's wow, what's so good about this?
31:18
And it's like it's just, it's just technique, an understanding
31:20
technique. And balance, like, I think one
31:21
of the things that's like remarkable about Tracy's food
31:24
that I think what makes it different is that like, I think
31:28
you go to a lot of restaurants and they're people love either
31:31
acid or salt or whatever it is. And I think we've kind of moved
31:34
away from the world of like balance.
31:36
And I think we've seen a lot of cooks have either a heavy hand
31:39
with salt or acid. And I think one of the things
31:41
that Tracy is really keen on in her food, and my impression of
31:44
it is there's a sense of all of your senses, of your entire
31:49
palate being like excited, right?
31:52
And I think that's a reflection of kind of her background.
31:55
So like she cooked at Crewe with Che Galante.
31:57
Che Galante worked with David Boulet.
31:59
Boulet well. He was, he ran.
32:01
So let me, let me just think about that.
32:02
So he was Boulet's chef for a long time, kind of in that like
32:06
late 90s, early 2000s, when Boulet was like the guy in New
32:09
York, you know what I mean? He was the guy and they were
32:14
doing sous video before anyone was doing.
32:16
And this is pre YouTube days. So no one knew how to cook sous
32:19
video. As a cook, you didn't know how
32:20
to cook sous video unless you worked at one of one or two
32:22
restaurants. Can I interrupt and tell you
32:23
have sous video stories? Very, very similar.
32:25
I worked in this, in this restaurant years ago and I
32:28
remember getting there now and, and I'm like early 20s, I'm
32:32
young and I remember asking the chef, what are these tanks in
32:35
the kitchen? And this is like 90s.
32:39
And I was like, what are these tanks?
32:40
And he said, and I remember he said to me, he's like, oh, like
32:42
15 years ago, the chef was into this sous video cooking.
32:45
He's like, it was like for chicken breasts or whatever.
32:47
He's like, it's so stupid. But this is like before sous
32:49
video came back. And it's interesting that I
32:51
don't think a lot of people realize is like sous video was
32:54
also a trend like in the late 70s, early 80s.
32:57
I'm saying 7. I don't know if that's true.
32:59
But like in the early 80s, it was also a trend that fizzled
33:01
out and then reappeared later on.
33:04
And it looks like it, you know, going back to your store.
33:06
I didn't mean to interrupt, but I just thought that was that was
33:08
anecdotal but interesting. Definitely, definitely.
33:10
And I and I think something else that through that generation of
33:13
me externing at crew was spelled Cru in New York.
33:16
And it was only tasting menu was like prefix or A5 or a chef's
33:21
tasting menu. And that's like where the chef
33:23
wrote out the menu on the fly in that moment based on like what
33:26
was lying around, based on their preferences.
33:28
And that was really cool to see. I was the only woman in the
33:31
kitchen. I said nothing other than we I
33:33
was just invisible, trying not to screw things up.
33:35
You know, it was that kind of old school vibe kitchen.
33:40
And I learned so much. And shade always told me, he
33:43
said, it doesn't matter if you're making family meal or
33:45
cooking for a fancy chef, always make it the best version.
33:49
Try to make it the best version anyone's ever made.
33:51
And that stuck with me because you see someone a cook sometimes
33:54
be like, oh, it's just family meal.
33:55
Oh, it's just this, oh, that's not AVIP.
33:57
It's like, no, no, no. It matters every single time.
34:00
And then if you practice that, pushing for greatness, like I'm
34:04
not saying I am. I'm saying I'm always trying to
34:06
be there. That just becomes a habit and
34:08
that gets baked within the way you cook and the cooker chef you
34:12
are. It's interesting that all the
34:13
things that you're saying just kind of take me back.
34:16
A friend of mine was texting me the other day.
34:17
He was at Paul Bacuse restaurant and he's sending me photos of
34:20
the kitchen and the food. And one of the things that he
34:22
said to me, I've never eaten at restaurant Paul Bacuse, he said,
34:25
I said, how was he? He's like great, best meal I've
34:28
probably ever had of that style. He's like, what's interesting
34:30
about it is I understand what that food is supposed to taste
34:34
like. Now he's like, because you've
34:36
had these dishes, but they weren't made the way they were
34:38
supposed to. It's like, I understand what
34:39
that food is supposed to taste like.
34:42
And when I had your food specifically, and, you know,
34:45
I've been thinking about this actually a lot because how it
34:48
how it relates to me and, you know, I'm not a chef anymore,
34:50
but I've been thinking I want to do a pop up or something like
34:53
that. You're always a chef.
34:54
Yeah, Yeah. Still like my friend says, like
34:56
once a chef, always a chef, but you know what I mean?
34:58
I'm not an active chef. I'm a chef podcaster.
35:01
But one of the things I think about food is like, if I had to
35:04
do a pop up because I was like sketching stuff, it's like if I
35:06
had to do a pop up right now, it's like, what would I do?
35:08
Because I look at all the food today and it kind, I don't want
35:11
to say it all looks the same, but it follows a formula.
35:14
Yeah, there's there's definitely a formula of today's hottest
35:17
restaurants. They they follow a formula and I
35:20
was like, well, if I had to follow a formula that didn't
35:22
feel like that one, what would I do?
35:24
I was like, I'd just cook how we used to and present it
35:27
differently. Like I would just cook because I
35:29
feel like we're not cooking the way that we we used to 1520,
35:34
thirty years ago, like it's not food is not that way anymore.
35:37
Like you were talking about sweating the the very fancy dial
35:40
on the stove to just turn it down, right.
35:42
They just. Always have to be on full.
35:44
Block right. Just going back to going back to
35:47
cooking that food and what's interesting to me is like when I
35:51
tried your food, it took me back to, you know, an era and cooking
35:57
where like it was like the flavors of a of a of a
36:01
generation, but it was new. And the reason I feel like it's
36:04
new is because people don't cook like that anymore.
36:06
So you know, going kudos to you. I think, I think the food, the
36:09
food that you do is beautiful, but.
36:11
Thank you. And maybe also why it feels new
36:13
is because I've received this like kind of, I wouldn't say I'm
36:17
like from the old school or anything.
36:18
I started cooking 20 years ago this year actually in Chicago.
36:22
But I did learn from it wasn't this generation.
36:24
It was, it was the, the old school teaching me, you know
36:27
what I mean? And I, I've been fortunate
36:29
enough to work with a lot of fantastic chefs.
36:32
And you know, for me, it's sorry, what was I saying?
36:38
He's talking about being really, like, steeped in the old school,
36:41
and he was complimenting. Oh yeah, yeah.
36:43
Thanks. So what makes it feel maybe a
36:47
little new is like the playlist. A lot of I make most of the
36:49
playlist and it's like, I'll title the playlist like late 90s
36:55
alternative vibes or junior high R&B, you know, And it's like
37:01
moments of my life. And it feels like you're coming
37:03
to our house, you know, And maybe early on it's like, I
37:06
don't know, Neil Young. And then later at night it's
37:09
some kind of hip hop or you know, whatever it is based on
37:12
like the vibe and how the nights feeling.
37:15
And I think those personal touches, you know, we have an
37:17
open kitchen like you said on you set the counter, that
37:20
connectivity. I think it makes it feel a
37:22
little fresh because those restaurants that you know, we
37:26
worked at or whatever, they didn't have a casual element.
37:29
It was just all like these beautiful dining rooms and these
37:32
fancy schmancy plates. And we don't serve on fancy
37:35
schmancy plates, you know, So we make a lot of practical choices
37:38
for the business so we can be healthy and take care of our
37:42
team. But then we still cook the food,
37:45
use the ingredients, the. I use a lot of fancy Italian
37:47
olive oils. And, you know, our Dove has an
37:49
amazing wine list. And so we do the things that
37:52
are, I think, magical about the old school, but then do it our
37:55
way with our voice, which is, yeah, the music's a little bit
37:57
louder. And yeah, we try to speak
37:59
positively rather than having meltdowns, you know, And yeah,
38:03
I'm not perfect. And if I say something that
38:05
feels, you know, not, you know, completely my 100%, my best,
38:09
I'll always, you know, apologize right away and be like, I'm
38:11
sorry I had a moment and, you know, clear the air right away.
38:14
Yeah. You know, and I, I'll never
38:15
pretend like I'm perfect, but I think really trying to lead
38:18
kindly and humanly is really important.
38:21
It's funny, though. Like, you know, one of the
38:22
things people tell both of us is that we're, like, very intense
38:25
people. And it's funny because in the
38:26
context of, like, our previous careers in New York, we were the
38:29
chillest people at our restaurants.
38:31
Yeah. So just I wasn't.
38:32
Chill. I was, I was pretty chill guy
38:33
chill. I mean, compared to like some of
38:36
the people I worked with, I was OK.
38:37
I don't, I'm sorry, respect. You know, like.
38:39
You're not chill. Person.
38:42
But like, I, I, it's, it's funny because like I've always had a
38:45
point of view, right? And I think like Tracy's always
38:48
had a point of view. And I think like, what the thing
38:51
I've said to people, like, you know, when people ask like, hey,
38:54
should I open a restaurant right now?
38:55
I think the thing that like, you know, I think this is an
38:58
important thing for cooks to hear is that Tracy was what, 38
39:02
when we opened Birdies, I was 34, You know, and I think we
39:07
both fell into this like trap where we're like, we're not
39:09
successful unless we open a restaurant by the time we're 30.
39:12
And I think the truth is you're not ready to open a restaurant
39:15
until you have a clear sense as to what you want to do and the
39:18
story you want to tell both through your cooking from like
39:22
a, a clear understanding of like how to run a business and how to
39:25
be a leader. And I think those three things,
39:28
you can't just choose one of those three things and say,
39:30
well, I have a cool concept. Concepts live and die.
39:34
You know what I mean? If you want to build a timeless
39:36
restaurant, a restaurant that'll last forever, I think it's
39:39
really important to understand what drives you.
39:43
And I think my, I would implore more cooks to say, you know
39:46
what, I want to learn from the best for a longer period of
39:49
time. So I know the difference between
39:52
good and bad. You know, I think people have a
39:54
sense of, well, I'm ready to cook this because I have an
39:57
opinion on it. We've had opinions our whole
40:00
whole lives. We found jobs where we could
40:03
share those opinions in meaningful ways and and be
40:07
consultant partnership. No, I'm talking about even at
40:11
like USAG, Like if I had something to say, I had people
40:14
in the community and the organization I could say to.
40:16
Did that mean that it was always taken at, you know, face value
40:20
and something was done at it about it?
40:22
No, but I was allowed to share those opinions.
40:25
And I think now we're at a place where because of we both had
40:29
practice, you know, in the dining room, in the kitchen
40:32
about like exercising some of these opinions in real life.
40:37
We're like, OK, we're ready to do this now.
40:39
But even then, we didn't take a huge risk.
40:41
We didn't raise a million and a half dollars and do something
40:43
crazy. We like remodeled this little
40:45
corner space that we found by luck.
40:48
And, you know, we've invested in it over time, but we didn't put
40:52
all our chips in. And we were like if in worst
40:54
case scenario we're like. Didn't have.
40:55
Any chips really to put in, put in lean and.
40:57
Mean and scrappy, yeah. Normally when we wrap up the
41:02
podcast, ask a couple of questions.
41:04
So I'm going to ask you, if you had a chef's PSA out there, the
41:07
message that you want to get out to all the chefs, stop doing
41:10
this or start doing this, like what?
41:12
What would you say? My chef's PSA is to be yourself,
41:17
to not be inspired by Instagram trends or what another chef's
41:21
doing. I think you need to just reflect
41:23
within yourself and do what inspires you.
41:26
And if you had like a service PSA out there, I I should start
41:29
a service PSA page or hospitality?
41:34
My my hospitality PSA is like, be better listeners.
41:41
Yeah. You know, I think a lot of
41:44
restaurants, people will talk at you and like, my body language
41:48
is like, all right, my food's dying on my, like, I don't want
41:50
to hear about the provenance of this grain.
41:52
My food is dying. It's getting cold.
41:54
I would like to eat it. You know, I think like I'm so
41:57
used to go to restaurants now and being talked at like tell me
42:00
three ingredients, the three most like important components
42:02
on the dish and then walk away and leave a little mystery.
42:05
I want to ask a question. I will do it at the check in
42:07
right, You know, but like don't don't lead with all the stuff
42:11
you learned at. Lineup Wait, so normally I ask
42:14
people like if you had a Mount Rushmore of chefs, which would
42:16
be the four chefs on their business, you're both here.
42:18
If you had a Mount Rushmore, 2 restaurateurs and two chefs, who
42:23
would be on it? Can I put chef?
42:24
Can I do chefs and? Stuff.
42:25
You could do anything. No rules, American.
42:28
Or it can be anybody. Give me two.
42:33
For me, Thomas Culler and Roger Verge.
42:37
Yeah, great choices. Thank you.
42:39
I mean Thomas is the GOAT and Roger Verge I feel like doesn't
42:41
get talked about enough. And you know what?
42:43
I got her. That Quickbook.
42:45
For so many fantastic chefs, right, who've been through his
42:48
kitchen, Danielle Boulet I think there's a list, yes, have taught
42:52
chefs who have taught me. And so I think a little piece of
42:56
that is in birdies and then all of the restaurants that people
43:00
who've worked there worked at. And I think that is the magic of
43:03
cooking professionally. I mean, in on the service side,
43:06
I think for me, like Danny Meyer and Wilgodera come to mind as
43:09
like 2 at the very top. I like, you know, I admire both
43:12
of them and it's kind of the the fuel that I'm like, I want to be
43:16
there with them in that like space someday.
43:19
You know, it's like, I'll say that out loud.
43:20
Like I name it to myself. I'm like, I want to be, I want
43:23
to be one of the greats too. But I think, you know, like the
43:28
last thing I said, because we were talking about the Rushmark.
43:30
Andrew Zimmern was at the restaurant yesterday and he
43:32
started his career at his cooking career at Raquel in New
43:35
York, which was Thomas Kelly's first restaurant.
43:37
Zimmerman or Zimmerman? Zimmern Okay, The Chicago show
43:40
Bizarre. Bizarre Foods.
43:41
Bizarre Foods. Yeah, okay.
43:43
And he started his cooking career at Raquel.
43:46
Yeah. And we were also talking about
43:47
how, like, most people don't know he was a a chef.
43:50
Yeah. You know, they assume he's ATV
43:51
person with Bobby Flay, same kind of trap.
43:53
Bobby Flay, one of the Great American chefs, Grant Hacketts,
43:56
just did a like a next kind of honoring Bobby.
43:59
But you know, if you don't know Bar American and Mesa Grill,
44:02
like those were really important restaurants.
44:05
And I think it's really important for younger cooks to
44:08
understand culinary history. It's something I've gotten more
44:10
and more passionate about, even teaching in the dining room,
44:13
like understanding where things come from so you can then
44:17
understand why you're making the decisions you're making and
44:20
compare it to like what has happened in the past.
44:22
History's super important, both in life and in your career.
44:26
Where can if people want to follow along?
44:27
Where can people find you? My personal Instagram is at
44:31
Tracy Malachek and the restaurant is at Birdies Austin.
44:36
I'm at our job, Ezekiel. Keep it very simple.
44:38
It's just our names. Yeah.
44:40
We got to do this again. This is fun.
44:41
Yeah, it's great. For fun.
44:42
Thanks for more time. Thank you.
44:43
Yeah. I hope you enjoyed the show.
44:45
You know what to do. If you're listening on Spotify,
44:47
make sure you leave Five Stars or Apple or anywhere else,
44:50
nothing less than five stars. It's a five star podcast and I
44:53
appreciate it. That goes a long way.
44:55
If you're watching on YouTube, hit the like and subscribe
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44:58
Let me know what you think. Go to chefspsa.com and hook
45:01
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45:09
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