Latest / Leanne's Podcast / Lizzie’s Story

Transcript

Lizzie’s Story · Leanne's Podcast

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, welcome back to Motherhood Honestly.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Season two is finally here.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm not sure how we made it this far.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: If you're new around here, this is the podcast where we talk about the bits of motherhood that don't always make it onto Instagram.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: The messy bits, the funny bits, the heartbreaking bits, and everything else in between.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: And if you've been here since season one, welcome back.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: You're the reason I'm started recording season two.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: You clearly enjoyed listening to Mum's Over Share, so you're definitely in the right place.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: This season is bigger, more honest, and full of incredible women and maybe men, spoiler alert, sharing their journeys, and I cannot wait for you to hear them.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: So grab a cover, settle in, and let's get into season two of Motherhood Honesty.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: In today's episode, I'm joined by my good friend Lizzie, who is opening up about something she's kept to herself for over 13 years, her experience of post-inquiry depression.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: Lizzie's journey into motherhood didn't turn out how she imagined.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Following a traumatic emergency section, she found herself struggling with the realities of new motherhood, feeling difficulties, the judgment of alcoholics, and isolation as an incredibly difficult intrusion of thoughts.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: For thirteen years, Lizzie's carried this experience without ever really speaking about what she went through.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: In this episode, she opens up the reality of a closed depression, the impact it had on her marriage, and the thought she struggled with behind closed doors, and how she became so good at hiding just how much she was suffering.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: There's something really powerful about hearing another mom, but into words feelings that you experience yourself.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Especially when those feelings can be so difficult to explain to someone who's not going to throw them.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so grateful to Lizzie for trusting me with something she's kept private for so long.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I just hope that by sharing her story, another one listening will realize she isn't alone.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that is okay to speak about the parts of the motherhood that we sometimes have to hide.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: So grab a couple of satellites.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect Island.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, how are you?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm good, how are you?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the podcast.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm fine, yeah.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was just telling you a moment ago that I've been crying all day.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's been a bit of an emotional one.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: I read your story and I'm like, oh so Lizzie's got the tissues ready for her because I feel like it might be a bit of a blubby podcast, but that's okay.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: You okay, Flo?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_04: There's a knot in your shoe.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: There's a knot in your shoe.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Hold on, hold on, guys.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Mum's gonna uh mum's gonna fix the knot.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: Let's pause for a second.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: Bye, Flo.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um I want to talk to you a little bit about like the beginning um of your pregnancy with Flo.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: So you said that you loved being pregnant despite the horrendous nausea.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: What was that time for you?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: And like how did you imagine your pregnancy to be like?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really think about it to be honest.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: It kind of because it happened so quickly.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: Married, moved house.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, by the way.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: I know you literally just said so on your first anniversary, wedding, you had a one month old.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:00
  unknown: Oh my gosh.
• 3:01
  unknown: Yeah.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Bam, bam, bam.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: So when we moved out, we got married in the September, which house in the December.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we've been in the house maybe two weeks when I found out I was pregnant.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: You were trying to.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: It kind of.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a if it happens, it happens.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it did.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: I've just met her.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: 13 years later, she's still kicking about.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, no, it was like from it was fine.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Talk to me about the nausea.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: That wasn't fine.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: That was horrific.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: No actual being sick though, and I think that would have just made it better because it was constant all day.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, they say that we've spoke I've spoken a lot.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Morning sickness, it's not, it's all day sickness, right?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like smells like I live on coffee.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: I am 90% caffeine all the time.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Couldn't stand the smell of it.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: We went Rich and I were in Oxford, I walked into Starbucks.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I want to have a hot chocolate.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Had to walk out because it was like, nope, can't deal with that.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: Coffee bean aroma.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, it was just the only thing that would help was ginger biscuits and then the occasional craving that Rich managed to get hold of at stupid o'clock in the morning.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: What were your cravings?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was apples and milk.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, mine was apples too.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Apples in the place.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's a girl thing.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Must be.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: It must be.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then there was one night he was on nights, and I was like texting him at two in the morning, like, I need mango and passion fruit rappuccino.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: Right now.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: He was like, 2 am.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't care.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um and he managed to get one before they opened because he was like, Why for the woman was like, no problem.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: You feel like it's really hard for cravings.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember um I was craving an Oreo milkshake.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: So me and Totti walked to the shop and um we were going to get some Oreo ice cream and milk and then make it.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: And they had none.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I burst into tears.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: And um, the lady in Tesco's, she said to Totti, she whispered, she was like, Go and get some vanilla ice cream and Oreo biscuits.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, Thank you so much.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so funny because they nicknamed her Oreo baby, like because that was our local shop, and we used to go back and it was so funny.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I know what it's like, but you're like, you need to right now.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right now.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um so into your pregnancy, your labours started when your waters broke, but after three days you needed to have a C-section.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: Talk me through those days and your birth.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember a lot of the days to be fair.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was I I do, but I don't.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So my waters went middle of the night.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: As you know, as they do.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: Stood in the kitchen going, Yeah, I know you're like, shh, I do, yeah.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: He was yeah, amused, went off to the hospital.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, Yeah, come back in you know, 24 hours.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Water's definitely gone.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Have you were you having pain at that point?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, there was nothing.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: They were like, if anything hasn't happened, come back in 24 hours.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: If it happens, come back sooner.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: Great.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we went home, started to watch Toy Story of all things, because it was like 4am, I think, or something like that.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Were you wired?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I was like, I'm not gonna be able to sleep.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Fell asleep on the sofa, obviously, and then woke up and we were like, We need to do something.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we just went for a walk around Vista Village because I was like, If I keep moving, it will be alright.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and nothing happened.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: So went back 24 hours later, and they were like, Oh, you know, your waters have gone, so now we need to keep you in.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Great, right, okay, great.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Can he stay?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, yeah, excuse me.
• 6:15
  unknown: What?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: So off rich one, and then of course, I'm there all night on this drip, so I don't get like any infections or anything.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's fine, and um like every single tweak and pain, I was like, Oh, it's happening, yeah, yeah.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then still nothing happened.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, so went down to delivery like the next morning.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: They were like, We'll go down at like seven o'clock, half six, they came and they're like, We're taking you down now.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like my husband's not here yet.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's fine, isn't it?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, yeah.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: It wheeled me down as he arrived, and I was like, No, it's gonna have his kids, shall we?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, I thought it was like, um I think both of us were just a bit like oh it's actually happening.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's quite, isn't it?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it like this is it now, there is no going back.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, I mean there wasn't anyway, but yeah, no, I guess it makes it kind of real.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: It is, yeah.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I I can relate to that, yeah.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, talk with you what happened.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Got into the room, they put me on like the drip to start my contractions, that was all fine, everything started fine.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: The contractions started coming thick and fast, they were like, we just need to turn this down, and they stopped.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: The contractions stopped.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Just stopped.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was the drip making the contractions happen, that was it.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was like my body had gone, oh yeah, I'm ready for this now, but I don't know what to do.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then I think it was like half past six-ish sort of time.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: I turned like I rolled over in the bed.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: At this point, she'd got a clip on her head.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: I had yeah, like cannular in either hand.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: I rolled over and they were like, um, no, I lied.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'd asked for uh um at the Joel at this point, they were like, you could just hop off the bed while we get it ready.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, what a phrase, honestly.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: You're not popping anywhere.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: Popping anywhere.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm slowly getting up.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: So that happened, and then yeah, half an hour after that kind of happened, I was still only three centimetres, and this was like two and a half days in.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: They were losing her heart rate at every contraction.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: So they were like, We need to baby needs to come out.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: And from then on, I I think I just kind of went into survival.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: From then on, all I remember doing is signing a yellow form.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's it.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like a consent form, I guess.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like a don't sue us if you die.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that that's all I remember.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: You said that you don't remember much about it because of all the medication you were on.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I was so high.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: I took every pain.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: This is what I say to women, like I know like some women say, like, oh you know, I did it naturally, like, don't be brave, man.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, I was like, Can I have extra?
• 8:54
  unknown: Yes.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to feel a thing.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I couldn't in the end after the epigenorald, but No, yeah.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do you looking back?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think you had time to process what actually happened?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: No, not even, not even slightly.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: I literally rolled over.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: There had been two people in the room, rolled back onto my back after they'd checked something, and there was about six, seven people in there.
• 9:17
  unknown: Yeah.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, what is going on?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: That must have been really scary.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, they're all there, just like, okay, so this needs and like Rich, he didn't know what was going on.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna ask, what was Rich's like point at this point?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: He was just like, I think he was just a bit more like Yeah, is she okay?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Is the baby okay?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's really hard for dads, isn't it?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: We've had a like a lot of conversations with women about like you know, the other half and their partner, sorry, I shouldn't just say men, but partner, like looking on, that must be very scary for them.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well they can't do anything, have they?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: And they don't know what's going on.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: I know I don't know about your experience, but the midwives that I had, I had one that was really good, the rest were just a bit almost like, oh you don't need to know.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, well, he does, and I do.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the midwife who um not delivered, I shouldn't, but she was with me during the C session was amazing.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: She was so cool, she had blonde, spiky hair, she's a rock star.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing, and then yeah, from then on, like the aftercare for me was not was not great.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, mine either.
• 10:15
  unknown: Yeah.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: But Flo arrived safely, you had a beautiful baby girl, Flo, um, who you just met.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you said to me that everything initially seemed okay, yeah, and then when did you first notice that things weren't quite right for you?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't do you know, I d I don't know that I can pinpoint it.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: So being in the hospital was just a complete blur of people and pain and doing stuff that I didn't want to do.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to stand up.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, I don't want to go.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to have the first week.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to wheel my kid in this little fish tank up the corridor.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um got home and everything was fine.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Rich was home, so you know, struggled to feed her.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: She was a hungry baby.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: I just struggled.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um when things I noticed things was when Rich went back onto nights, which was about week five.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you said that he was working really long shifts and you you said to me that you struggled with the feeding and you went towards bottle feeding, didn't you?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um and the guilt of that crept in.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: How did you like did you feel like you put a pressure on yourself for that?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Massively, but also there was external pressure.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: I had people going, Oh, but so and so could feed.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, that that's good for them, but yeah, have you seen how hungry my baby is?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like she's not doing that.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: And as an E mum, I can imagine that's quite um that's hard to hear.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you've there's an expectation, isn't there, that you should be able to do certain things and yeah, when your body doesn't do the thing that it's expected, you're always told absolutely what this is what it does.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: So from not being able to deliver her naturally, I guess.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: But and then to that, I was just like, well, you can clearly not come out for it.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you know, I I felt very much the same, so I get it.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um Flo developed colic, colic, sorry, um, and she screamed for hours every night.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously Rich was working those shifts, talk to me about those nights.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you alright?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, they were they they were long, they were they were really long.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: She like literally he'd be getting ready to go to work, and I could just feel the dread creeping in because I knew from about an hour after he left it would just be screaming, and it you know, no fault of her, yeah, but nothing that I did would help her.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: There was one way of holding her when she was kind of laid across my arm, and that that was about it.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: But then, of course, I'm trying to do everything one-handed.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, yeah.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's when my mother-in-law was an absolute godsend because she'd bring me food.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: So this is Richard.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because I'd not eaten.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: She'd just come and just take flow and just be like go over there and sit down and eat and yeah, it's really important to have those people, like especially in the early days.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: But I can imagine, like, for you being alone like that, that would feel very lonely.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And not being able to drive either still.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I couldn't go in.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you couldn't you're kind of stuck, weren't you?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, I felt like really stuck.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I yeah, I just I think I just started to properly shut down into me, I guess.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: And um you you said you you again you're very good at doing things one-handed and you brush things off with a smile.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: How much do you think you were hiding from people, including Rich?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Probably more than I still even realise.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like reflecting back now, years later.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: And there's bits, some things that will happen, and I'm just like, oh, I don't I don't remember that.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: My brain's obviously just blanked it out, pushed it to the side, and I was like, we don't need that.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, there's there was so much.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: You spoke about feeling numb and trapped and unable to see, unable to see a way out, and I get it.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: I get that.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: When did you I know you can't pinpoint, but did you realize there was there a moment and you just realised that this is not just exhaustion of being a new mum, this is something more.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was when I sat there one night, Rich was I think it was feeling flow, or he was just holding her, and I was just looking, and I was like, look at that, they don't need me.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they don't like she's got her dad.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like the intrusive thoughts, yeah.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was like, she's got her dad, he loves her, they don't they don't need me around, they'd be absolutely fine without me.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: They wouldn't know that I'm not here as such, yeah.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that I think that's when for me I was a bit like that's it's dark, yeah.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's not yeah, that's not normal, yeah.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: But it felt normal.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: I I get it, yeah.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: The intrusive thoughts that you experienced is something that I very much again did feel, and I feel like probably many women feel like that.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um did you understand at the time that you were unwell?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, because I'd not known anybody excuse me, with any kind of or to have at least spoken about any kind of postnatal depression or anything like that.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: There was nothing.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was the first one in our friend group to have, well, we were the first one in our friend group to have a kid.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: So there was nothing, there was no sort of comparison, but like there was nobody there to kind of go, is this normal?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I was, you know, there wasn't very many people around me with kids, and there's nobody that had ever said, Oh, I had this, yeah, you need to go and speak to somebody.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I was just like, Well, maybe this is just what what motherhood is.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: Did you feel like um like a sense of guilt around how you felt and those thoughts?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: I did, but not straight away.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: Not straight away.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because uh, you know, we sort of spoke at the start of this, and I'm not gonna mention it at the end, but nobody knew about this, nobody knew about how you were feeling at all.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: You didn't tell anybody.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think Rich was starting to kind of get an idea.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I hadn't even vocalized it to him.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'd not even sort of said, This is happening.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: Why did you not vocalise it?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was scared that somebody was gonna come and take Flow away from me.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was absolutely terrified that they would go, Well, she's not fit to be a mum, she needs to be elsewhere, and then that would then take her away from Rich as well.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the one thing that was stopping me from sort of saying, I I can't, I need some help.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a really um common thought for mums who are struggling, is that they instantly think, well, you know, the baby's gonna be taken away from me, you know, and it's just I think sometimes it's hard to realise how unwell you are, yeah, because you just see the worst things, don't you?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um you said you didn't want to leave the house, but you didn't want to be in the house.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Can you explain the feeling of being like feeling trapped?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was weird because I wanted to when Rich was off work, where he worked his shifter work, he was like four days off in a row, yeah, or three and a half after nights, and then he'd be at work for like four days.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And those four days that he was at home was great because there was somebody else that could not force me out of the house, but let's go and do this, let's go and you know, go to Oxford, let's go for a walk, let's go and do something.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, Okay, it's fine.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And he took the lion's share then of feeding flow, changed it, so I didn't have to do a lot.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I didn't know I get it, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: I also kind of was just like, you know what, I've been dealing with this for four days.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is your turn.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: This is your turn, yeah.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I I probably took a step back, which in turn made it easier.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: But then when he went back to work, I was like, Yeah, I don't know how to go out on my own.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think was more of it.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know, I didn't want her to start crying somewhere because I then felt anxious about her doing it.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want people to judge me because my baby is crying, so I just stayed in and I just yeah, I'm smiling because this is it's just like listening to me, you know.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: But I felt like um probably you know, Tottie are the same as Rich, like they were your security blanket we were out, right?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, you felt safe when you were with them.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: This was me.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: And again, you know, Tottie would come over two and be like, Come on, let's go for a walk.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll be like, Okay, yeah, you know.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Where are you going?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: No, I am as well.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Go to the shop, okay.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'll come with you.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um you said to me that you wish you'd asked Rich and your family and friends for help.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what stopped you from telling someone?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: Was it the fact that you thought that flow was going to be taken from you?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Or was there any other factors in it?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was that, but I also think it was the slight shame of it.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because I didn't know of it.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this was 13 years ago, so it it wasn't as talked about as it is now.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't, you know, there wasn't people actively trying to make it feel better.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's not enough education around it.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's still now, but yeah, I mean it's still diabolical.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I suppose back then it's there is there is more and you can find more now.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say social media 13 years ago is not what it is now, okay.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: You can't just pop on to Google or Chat GBT wherever it was.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, there was nothing sort of yeah, it was it was that fear and the shame of just how was your bond with Flo?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was alright until she screamed.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Which I know sounds terrible, and it was just like this happy smiley baby, and I was like, oh yeah, she's alright.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or when we were somewhere where it was just me and her, it was great because uh she very much wanted to be with me.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she was quite picky about who she went to, yeah.
• 19:53
  unknown: Which is great.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: She didn't like men.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, fine, fine.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Apart from her dad, yeah, um, but would go to certain family members.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: But whenever we were anywhere else, it was like she's she's mine, but at the same time, I don't necessarily just want her to be I I get it, yeah.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: I know what you're trying to say.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like she's yours, but you also want to break.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if you want to hold her, that's fine, but don't take her out of my sight.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um you suffered for nearly three years.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'd say so.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: And there's some people that are listening to this and they and some people in your life they still don't know what you went through.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: How did you manage to hide it?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Not say hide it, but but you know what I'm trying to say, how did you mask it, I suppose, in a way?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: I just I don't know, I think it's like Because I know you you know you're a very bubbly, upbeat person.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, and I suppose that in that period of time you probably weren't like that a lot of the time.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess not yeah, was it like a the Lizzie mask put on?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it was just uh I need to act as normal as possible for people not to know what's happening, right?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that mask came off as soon as we got home, yeah.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because it was hard, it was tiring.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's exhausting, yeah.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's ex you know, I spoke about I used to put on you know my Lian mask.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, people would I knew the people closest to me would be able to tell the difference.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: But even then, some people were like, Yeah, she's fine.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what are you on about?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and it's just yeah, you know, um you spoke about I want to I want to talk a little bit about Rich now and the impact it's had on your marriage, your relationship.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um you described that you pushed him away, but you were also a bit terrified of being alone with Flo.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um talk to me about that.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, the arguments that came from just everything, I guess.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: There was times where he'd go off to work and I'd be so jealous that he was going to work.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I didn't want him to go to work because I was then on my especially on.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I struggled really like I can imagine that because the nights are hard with it.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: The nights with a baby are hard.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can, you know it's I mean, I'd go some days where she'd be like, you know, she's up, she's fine, she's nothing, she's doing all the bits that she should be doing, and then at night she screamed the whole night.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then she didn't sleep properly.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then eventually she took her dummy, which I hated, but it that was like Yeah.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Almost like a turning point for sleep anyway.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um the little cow just decided to throw them out of the fire all the time.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we used to have like ten in the lips room.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh in the dark ones.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, the mammoth, yeah, the what ones are the man, the man one.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but like he'd go off to work and I'd just be like, I'd almost like shout at him and resent him for going to work.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then be devastated that he was going.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we argued, like, I'll shout at him, and he is the most laid-back person in the world.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Very rarely gets annoyed, very and it's really annoying sometimes.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you just want them to be like, Yeah, just have just tell me chuck.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: But he just agrees, and I'm like, I want you, yeah.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need solutions right now.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: I need you to just throw a plate at me or something.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: Something, yeah.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: But he was just so calm and just stayed at that.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then when he occasionally would shout back at me, I'd be holding Flo and be like, Don't you scream at me when I'm holding?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: But you're the one that's basically.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm the one that's like absolutely losing my head over it.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, so you spoke about like shouting at Rich and stuff, even though you know he was working very hard to support you and your family.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Looking back, how do you feel like the impact of postpartum depression has had on your relationship?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um your marriage, sorry.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's it almost didn't survive it.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Our marriage almost did not survive.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: Same.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: It it got to a point where even I mean, this wasn't even all that long ago, this was probably afterwards.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it had been right at that point from sort of admitting things were wrong to sort of try and help and sort myself out and sort everything else out.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: It hadn't been right for a long time when we both kind of went, This isn't well, I went, this isn't working anymore.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: So he went and he lived with his mum for a bit.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I stayed at home with Flo.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that was really hard.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was really, really hard.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then we went away for a weekend, and I kind of was like, What the fuck am I doing?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Why am I why am I trying to push this man away?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sorry, swear I couldn't.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, why not?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then it wasn't too long after that.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: But we went away in February, and I think by the March, I was like, You need to come home.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then COVID hit.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's how quick it that's how it was only six years ago.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: But so just working it out.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: So how many years after flow is this?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh six.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it'd have been about six years.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: So you're six years, so flow's six, and this is the point where you're like, This isn't working.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, five or six.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: And we I was just like, I can't something had to give.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: There was a whole load of contributing factors, but I it's it's that I don't think we'd ever sort of sat down between us and talked about it properly.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Which I think is you know, it's our doing.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: We've both kind of gone, that's done, under the rug that goes.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um but we did, we had time and we sat and we talked, and spending time apart, I think, made us realize that we needed to be together.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's like you guys are your a unit, yeah.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's he's just large.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: He is, he's a great guy.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think it's really difficult because uh, you know, I have very big problems in my marriage because of my post-natal depression, you know, obviously other contributing factors, but I also think when you throw a baby into the mix and it's been you and your partner for just you and him, yeah, and then suddenly you've got this this baby to look after and your love is put on another person, it's hard, isn't it?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're not putting, you know, you're not filling each other's cup up.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, you know putting somebody else first, and I was a bit like times I was a bit like, hello.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: So do you know what?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, I'm so glad you say it.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's so real that you say that because I felt exactly the same.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, hold on a minute, I've just given birth to your child.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: I went through major surgery for you.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it's not that they don't recognise that they do, but they're also trying to support your family by going out to work, look after your baby, look after the wife, you know, and it's like anything they do in that time is wrong.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's wrong, yeah.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you can't navigate it.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: I remember Toddy going home one day and he was like, Um, oh, the chef at work made us like chicken rings today, and I was like, Oh, at least you've managed to eat.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like every little thing I just picked him again.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: My husband's like quite like rich, like literally, like if he was any more laid back, he'd be laying back.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right, same like the nicest guy in the world, yeah.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then you know, I always do that with the tightly mad ones, don't they?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, I know.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Me and you are very similar.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, so I feel sometimes because I'm like, Jesus Christ, you probably would just file and I and I was Oh, I was completely awful.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: How that man survived it, I don't know.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: I just want you to know, and to anybody else listening out who's had any form of post-no depression or anything, it's not your fault.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's not your fault, you know.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's you were unwell at the time and you you didn't realise it.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, when you're in it, you don't see it, you don't see it.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: You're it's all consuming, yeah.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: And your mind takes you to the darkest corners of your brain, like you know, and like the your intuitive thoughts and stuff, you know, you've never probably thought about that.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: No, and then suddenly one day it's like a fleeting thought comes, you know.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I I remember mine, like it was yesterday.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh I can it it's haunting almost that it even happened, like and I'm like looking around now, thinking like this is like hard for you because you have not spoken about this for uh well you haven't, no, obviously with Rich, but like now you're coming on and sharing it with all my listeners.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I can imagine that an element of this is quite hard for you, you know?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: But it it needs to be, you know, it's important.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's educating, you know, it's educating people on the signs of it, you know.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um what do you wish people understood about like what partners go through?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I wish that they knew that they don't know what they're doing as well.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that they're navigating as much as it's you know, it was me that was ill, Rich is navigating all of this whole new thing that's been thrown on him, yeah, and then something else.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that he's not necessarily going to be dealing with it and processing it, yeah.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: How you would not expect them to, but how you would kind of think because I think most men would just kind of go, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: But if you actually really sit down and speak to them actually about it, they'll probably say a whole different side.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's actually probably like a actually it was really hard.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like really hard.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think it's I don't think it's recognised because it it's the mum that's ill.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's dads or partners just there, just kind of like not on the sidelines, but I think that's what it's perceived as a lot of the time.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, she explained it like that, it was like looking in a into like a fish tank.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was just waving like I'm here to go.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: Hi.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: Do you yeah, I get it, you know.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you now have a teenage daughter who I just met, and motherhood looks very different.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: How has your experience um like back then changed the way you view being a mother to flow?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to say that I'm nice and calm.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: She would say she would disagree.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it's just kind of made me realise that you know, now she's a teenager, even beforehand, that there's going to be times that she's not necessarily okay and that she doesn't know how to process stuff that's going on.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: If I couldn't at the age of what was like 24, how is she supposed to now?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: And younger, when everyone's going, oh, but she's just, and I'm like, yeah, but is she just?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I'm just a bit more aware of things about her life, how she is, yeah, yeah.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: More than anything.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think she would probably disagree that I'm calm.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: But you guys are very close.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to think so.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: She's like she's a pain in the arse.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: She says that as she's upstairs and for a fraction.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: She's probably shouting down now.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, um, you said that there are parts of Flo's early years that you don't remember, and that really hurts you.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um how did you come to terms with that?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like feeling like you missed parts of her time.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I don't know that I have.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's bits I see friends with like their kids, and they're like, oh, I don't want this, and this.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I don't remember Flo doing that.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it like milestone moments.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like nieces and nephews and things that have come along, and I'm a bit like, did Flo do that?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, she must have done it because she's you know, the big things like her first steps, I remember.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like her first word, which I made sure was mama.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: I remember.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: She hasn't shown since.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Now you're like, tell it, why did I do that?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I'm really gonna be most sad about is when it goes from mummy to mum.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm I'm a bro.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Bro.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a pro.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Pro or Medea or whatever else they decide to call.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Occasionally there is a mummy thrown in there.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's when I know she wants something.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, no, it is hard when the the the stages come and change and it's like mama, mummy, mum.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm at the start of my journey, honestly, I'm dreading it.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I would love to see you'll be fine.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like girls are really hard, aren't they?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like Yeah, well, I mean, I know what I was like as a teenager.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: Brilliant.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I was like as a teenager.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: You're forced to be reckoned with, mate.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: You don't think any shit.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I've got like a smaller version of it.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so petrified with Olivia.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: I like I I'm so scared of this child.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I've just yeah.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know it's not a bad thing though?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think you know they are fierce and they know their own mind.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: She knows what she wants.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: She doesn't always get it.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: She'll have a good go at getting it.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she'll try any avenue going.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm just wanting to go back.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: We're like looking back on it.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: So you you said about you were like compared to family members who didn't struggle in the same way that you did.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: What would you say to anyone who tells like a struggling mum that other people manage to do it?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: Quite frankly, I'd probably tell them to fuck off right now.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now that would be my response.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's everybody's different.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: No two people are the same.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: We all know that.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Just because somebody gave birth naturally and somebody gave birth by C-section, it doesn't make them any one any less than the other.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Both really fucking hard way.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's a small person coming about.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: They're coming out one way or the other way.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: One way or another.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Forcibly by the sunroof or otherwise.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, now it would be I'd just tell them to do one.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: Good for you.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: And just do you feel like um like now you could advocate for yourself?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, massively.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think do you think you had to go through post-netal depression to get to that point though?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think you had to go for the dark moments to to realise that actually, do you know what?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm really strong.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Sucks.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: But it is also I get it now.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know, it it happened.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: There's no denying that.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, no, at the end of it, it's like, yeah, yeah, I can do this.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: I can do hard stuff.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Do you ever get, I'm not going to ask you, are you ever depressed, but do you ever get like your down days about it and think about it?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: And you even though so Flo's uh 13 now, are there days like that you think about?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Is there times or is it just sometimes it just Just occasionally it just kind of like pops back every now and again?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah it's it's the milestones that I see of other kids.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh remember that.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm kind of like, oh, do you remember how you felt at that point?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm really good at getting other people's kids to go to sleep.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: My own.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh send a living around.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: Babies.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: She's my baby.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: She's my baby, but she's still your baby's like um five foot ten.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm just not far enough.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: But like look, like I can cuddle bait and like just and like like breathe them all in, and I couldn't do that with mine.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: She just wouldn't.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I find that really hard.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: That you didn't get to experience.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: And when she did sleep on me, I was always like, this is great, but I can do nothing now.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think also with post-natal depression, I don't know if you found this, but I could never fully enjoy or be in like embrace something.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: I could never be fully in it.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like because my mind was always just racing with other things.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was never like um what's the word I'm trying to use?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: Not um not well rested.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: What's the word I'm trying to use?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was never like at peace.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: There was yeah, even if there was nothing to be on edge about, I always found it.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing was going on.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: What if?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: I know, but it was catastrophizing things, isn't it?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: I was always waiting for something to go wrong.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that was one of the things that stopped me leaving the house was once I could drive, yeah.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what if I crashed?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: What if she cries in the coffee shop?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: What if I can't get to the thing that she needs in the back of the car?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like how do I do that on my own?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I just didn't.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Which probably didn't help stick to you.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I know.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um if you could sit beside yourself in the early, like struggling months, what would you tell yourself?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's gonna be alright.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: That she does stop crying eventually.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: So do you and I'll probably go, here's some food.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: Eat.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: Give you the kid, eat.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard in the first few days, isn't it?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: We were very lucky we had a lovely neighbour Charlie who used to come around and watch it while I showered and ate because then when it affects your basic needs, you can't put your baby down to go to the toilet or brush your teeth.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's so hard, isn't it?
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: Their basic needs is easy.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when I listened to your episode and you said there was days where you just couldn't like you're just in bed.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Where I think I would have been like that had I not been forced to get up with Rich not being there.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: If he had been at home, I'd have probably just been like, I need to be in bed.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I I couldn't, I think I'd almost gone into that autopilot type thing.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it was, yeah, and he'd come home someday.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be like, Son, sitting in my pajamas.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Hi.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like it's like 18 hours.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: You can't, you know, those things like you know, Totty used to make me a sandwich before he left for work and leave it in the fridge.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like they sort of those sorts of things are like really helpful.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: You just don't.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: You don't.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's not your fault that that's happened.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: You just you can't get yourself there.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: There's no oomph in you, there's no drive in you to do that, you know.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's almost like well the the baby's fed and changed, and so that's that's fine.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's your main priority.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: But what about you?
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: Who's looking after you?
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: My mother-in-law.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: My mother-in-law.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: My mother-in-law and Richard.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: She's amazing.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: She's actually great.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Even now, to this day, I'd be lost without her.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: I my mother-in-law is all the way over in Romania.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: I miss her so much, and I miss all her cooking.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: I I wish she was here when like I gave birth, because I think she would have been amazing.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: Not to say that my mum wasn't, shout out to Elaine.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say she must have been lost without her.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: I still am now.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, do you want me to come and hang out with you?
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: Do you need company?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to see Olivia?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want her ever overnight?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: I do that.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, throw you around.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um ever.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I guess like for any mum's oh my gosh, what's happened?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: There we go.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: My laptop just spent blank.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, any mum's listening out there who are like silent um smiling on the outside but they're experiencing the same thoughts and feelings that you once did, what do you want them to know?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Asking for help is hard, but it's necessary.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: You that it's you know, it's it's hard to work through it, it's hard to get through it.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's there, you know, there's no easy way out.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: But there is a way out.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: You should be so proud of yourself because you've got a lovely family.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: And your daughter's beautiful, she's gorgeous.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: So funny as well.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: She was really comical when she walked it.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: She came like bowling through the door, didn't she?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, Hello.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: She's you know.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: She is you.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: Which is why I struggle when I say that I'm really calm and then for my husband.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, come on, he's got two of us.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, maybe they should go out for a fight or something.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think they'll probably meet.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: I just have to sit and wonder, like, I wonder what Totty said about me at work.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: I just would love to be a flower of the red pink.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: The light on the wall.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: Probably not in the early days, probably they're a bit worried, but like now, imagine Leanne.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what we're over there going, God soon?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: The ship's finishing soon.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: Tell it.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, thank you so much for coming on and showing us.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.