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Profound Autism & Motherhood: Turning Challenges into Connection with Heidi Rome · Inchstones with Sarah | Autism Advocacy & Caregiver Stories

• 0:01
  Speaker A: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Inchtones podcast. I have Heidi Rohm here today, a fellow mother of a. Of a young adult now with non speaking autism. And Heidi is a new friend of mine. We met through a shared public speaking event. And Heidi is the author of one of the most incredible phrases I have ever heard that has become the title of her book, specifically about the transformative power of her motherhood journey with her son Ethan. And ever since Heidi and I spoke a few weeks ago for the first time, one on one, I have shared her book and the title of it and the story that accompanies it to more than 10 to 15 individuals because of how much it hit my heart and my journey and gave me peace to accept the choices that I make as Millie and Max mom out of love for who they are. So, Heidi, thank you for being here today all the way from Livingston, New Jersey. All the way.
• 1:01
  Speaker B: Yes. Well, all the way it is exactly here with you.
• 1:05
  Speaker A: Well, Heidi, tell us how your mothering experience of Ethan and your book came to be.
• 1:11
  Speaker B: It came to be with Ethan's permission because I came to see how. Eventually I came to see that Ethan was perfect as he was. It was my own awareness that needed to be shifting to move me out of resistance and suffering over his autism diagnosis and the years I spent trying to fix my broken kid. And on this journey, through Ethan's example, to realize that fixing was not the way to go, that that was the path of suffering that was causing tremendous pain, judgment of self and others. And it was a microcosm of, I think, what I was taught to do in my life, that equating loving and fixing.
• 1:58
  Speaker A: If you say that again, that's so.
• 2:01
  Speaker B: Powerful, the false belief that loving and fixing are the same thing.
• 2:06
  Speaker A: That's the next title of your book. That's your next book.
• 2:10
  Speaker B: Well, love don't fix is the Love don't.
• 2:12
  Speaker A: Oh, okay, there we go. Okay, there we go. Yeah. Yeah, okay.
• 2:17
  Speaker B: Because, man, I was taught, I think in utero, that if you love someone, it's your job to fix them. And that fixing is an act of love because, well, I care so much about you. I want you to be the best you can be.
• 2:32
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 2:32
  Speaker B: Fulfill your potential. And if you're broken, it's my job to help you get fixed. Whether I do it or help you fix you, I'm the arbiter of what needs to meet some standard, some arbitrary standard. And that's my job. And it's your job then, I guess by logically to be fixed and so with Ethan's autism diagnosis, I really went into Olympic level fixing. And that took all kinds of forms. Hearing, listening to experts. Because fixing is rooted in fear. Fear of not being enough. Fear that I don't know what to do. And so I think many humans make this mistake, especially in Western culture. There's an outside expert who knows more than I do.
• 3:28
  Speaker A: Correct.
• 3:29
  Speaker B: The professor, the teacher, the therapist, the university, the whomever. They know autism better than I do. They know my kid better than I do. They know me better than I do. They know what to do better than I do. I.
• 3:43
  Speaker A: Because an answer. I just had a conversation with someone. Because an answer gives us a dopamine hit. An answer goes, oh, an answer feels good.
• 3:51
  Speaker B: An answer feels good because we are wired when we find something that was lost. Dopamine.
• 4:01
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 4:01
  Speaker B: Because problem solved. Problem solved. Problem solved. Like, feels really good if you. I mean, they've done studies on this.
• 4:09
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 4:09
  Speaker B: If you drop your pen and you. Where is it? Yes, where is it? And you look for it. Where is it? Where is it? Then you see it. I see it. Your brain goes berserk. Like, yes.
• 4:24
  Speaker A: Like sweet relief. Like, you are incredible. Like. Yeah. Yes.
• 4:29
  Speaker B: And we're gonna reward you chemically for solving the problem. Solving the problem. Making the match between the problem and the solution.
• 4:37
  Speaker A: Right? Yes.
• 4:40
  Speaker B: So we see that we are wired to. There's a gap between what I have and what I want. There's a gap. Close the gap. Fix the gap.
• 4:53
  Speaker A: That's right. That's right.
• 4:54
  Speaker B: Don't enjoy the gap.
• 4:56
  Speaker A: The gap is not where you're supposed to be, Heidi. No, that's not where we're supposed to be. Like, I always think of myself.
• 5:02
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's a hole that you better fill.
• 5:05
  Speaker A: That's right.
• 5:06
  Speaker B: You better fix that gap between those things. Or. And here's another whammy on this journey. You're not a good mother.
• 5:14
  Speaker A: That's right.
• 5:15
  Speaker B: If you're a good mother, you fix it. Fix this autism thing. And if you can't cure him, make him look normal. Okay? And that was the guidance we went to. We started out with a zealot. A zealot ABA program, which I understand is not all aba. This was the extreme of the extremes. Of the extremes that if he wants to speak enough, he will find the right motivation.
• 5:45
  Speaker A: Yep.
• 5:46
  Speaker B: It was really hard. And it was all about make him look good. Look good, look good, don't make. He's stimming. Extinguish. Extinguish.
• 5:55
  Speaker A: Oh, my God, that word. That word is a first time autism on extinguish, I'm like, I've only used that about a fire. My children are on fire. That are on fire. I don't want to extinguish who they are.
• 6:06
  Speaker B: Right, exactly. Or yeah, eliminate.
• 6:09
  Speaker A: Eliminate. Yeah. Elimination.
• 6:11
  Speaker B: Another loaded word.
• 6:13
  Speaker A: Oh my gosh. And we tried, let's say this, we all did. I think most of us would say we did.
• 6:19
  Speaker B: We did and did not fix. Could not do it. And in fact then there's a consequence of everyone's stress level. Absolutely mine. I actually at one point went, what possessed me? I thought I'll maybe if I took enough vitamins.
• 6:37
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 6:37
  Speaker B: Oh yeah, all this. I went to this person, Dr. Who you know, did a blood analysis. I remember her saying to me, you know your cortisol levels, the computer doesn't know what to do with these. They are off the chart. Like it's not even, like it doesn't even. It's such an outlier of high level. It's confused. It doesn't know what to do.
• 7:00
  Speaker A: So. And again, you and I can speak so candidly about this. I don't, I'm not sure if you've seen it, it's floated around on social media exactly what you experience personally, but that is that studies have shown the stress hormones of special needs mothers are equating to combat, combat veterans. And that, that the PTSD or the complex PTSD that is associated with the caregiving role is like that of someone who, who experience an IED explosion or hand to hand combat. Or again, I, I believe science is real. I believe science is about constantly reorienting and finding the truth. If that's what you, I mean you didn't. I didn't. We didn't even start talking about this at first. And you're just saying I got, I sought that out and someone shared that with you. So you're a live example of that being tested.
• 7:55
  Speaker B: Yes. And you know, I'm, I'm also. It's not the same.
• 8:00
  Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes.
• 8:02
  Speaker B: Fire. And yet we all are the center of our own universe. So in my world, yes, that was.
• 8:09
  Speaker A: It's all relative.
• 8:11
  Speaker B: It's all, it's all relative. That's why the veterans. You know, I don't want to.
• 8:15
  Speaker A: Oh no, listen, I. Listen, my partner is a, is a United States Marine. We talk with this a lot. So please, please know I'm deep into the Department of Defense and very pro veteran more than probably most people. To that end, when I talk actually with veterans and I share that experience and I share what I physically felt Especially in those very early days of Millie and Max. Deep developmental, you know, behavioral them showing me who they were. And when I share that actually with my partner and his friends, specifically the ones that have been in active combat, they acknowledge that more than some other moms do.
• 8:54
  Speaker B: Really, I'm so relieved to hear that that's one no.
• 8:57
  Speaker A: And that. No, I want. I had to share that because they. I don't want to say their name because I don't want to. I don't talk to them about this. But one did say I had always wondered if another situation could be explained similarly to me to what I feel when I relive my active combat days. And it wasn't until you shared your story and how scary you felt your life to be in a place where you're supposed to feel comfort. He said, I never thought that the parallel could be made and you made it. And now I feel better because it humanized me to the depth of my stress from that moment. So anyways, thank you for sharing that.
• 9:46
  Speaker B: Well, you know what we're doing, I'm so glad. And we are here to walk each other home, right? Whatever it looks like. Whatever it looks like. And you know, used to have dreams of. I don't want to make myself cry again but you know, of Ethan on fire and my lack of ability to help him. Felt like I'm letting him burn. Oh my.
• 10:13
  Speaker A: I'm letting this happen, doing this right.
• 10:15
  Speaker B: I'm doing this to my baby. And it's been quite the journey. But then evolving in discovery and opening to the glimpses of light because I feel that we are here to learn and be the light, shed the light, you know, receive the light. The light is always there. It's about our opening our eyes and raising our eyes to see it and become aware of it instead of being in the fear of tunnel vision. Oh my God, I have to survive. There's no one to help. I'm all alone and this is terrible and I might die any second. And like in that place where I lived, I spent many, many years.
• 11:00
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 11:00
  Speaker B: Same place until thankfully teachers started to show up and I guess I was further along in my own awareness and healing journey. To begin to hear finally. And then Ethan, we moved him out of the ABA Intensive into one of the few schools with a DIR floor time model in New Jersey. And they offered the life changing other alternative communication devices technologies. And there was one in particular that Ethan really responded very well to. Spelling out his thoughts with guidance, support with the practice. You practice with touch to get the Motor planning, going until he becomes more and more independent. And so that technology was amazing. But here's. This was the beginning of the light, beginning to really shine. When he was five years old, I had brought him into New York for this full evaluation, remember, giving away all my power, tell me what's wrong with my kid and how to fix him. And they told me when he was 5 years old that he had the mental capacity of a five month old infant, which was absolutely shattering, horrific, affected everything was the worst news ever, including to this moment, including death news. And it, it really put me on that fixing trajectory. Fast forward. We changed the schools and they're offering these alternative things. And the first school, when I had said, you know, I want to help Ethan become more of who he is. And they said, well, what does that look like behaviorally? And I said, I'm not really sure. Maybe a mirror. I'm not sure. And I said I wanted him to know he's his own person. He was a little guy, you know, three. And I said, I want him to know he's his own person with his own thoughts and feelings. And what they said to me there was that he doesn't have his own thoughts and feelings and if he does, they don't matter. That was the original environment. So fast forward. This was the burden of mental capacity of a five month old doesn't have his own thoughts and feelings and whatever primitive thing he might have doesn't matter. Anyway, fast forward to this new school whose motto is Presume competence. And it was amazing. And they introduced this spelling typing with this very practiced person. And she called me the first week at the school and said, I have to tell you about an exchange I had with Ethan. And I'm thinking, exchange? You mean like back and forth?
• 14:08
  Speaker A: Like a dialogue?
• 14:09
  Speaker B: Like a dialogue.
• 14:09
  Speaker A: Like I'm like, no, you're like, I'm Heidi Rome. Are you talking about Ethan?
• 14:14
  Speaker B: Are you talking about mental capacity of a five month old? We don't do what.
• 14:19
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, no.
• 14:21
  Speaker B: So she said, well I said to him, ethan, you're here a week now. How do you feel? She actually asked him how he felt. Felt, Felt like proactively, like ask another human being what's.
• 14:35
  Speaker A: How they're feeling. What's happening for you?
• 14:37
  Speaker B: What's going on? She was probably like, what's happening? But okay. And he, he went with the flow. And she said to me later, she only asked him for three words because she thought.
• 14:45
  Speaker A: Didn't want pressure.
• 14:47
  Speaker B: Yeah, no ABA pressure. Like just, you know, take time. Answer me. She Thought he'll say loud. Right, right, right. You know, whatever. Whatever. He'd say. She was calling me because the three words that Ethan had spelled, basking in joy, the cognitive dissonance of that, it's like, Sid, who am I? Who is he? What's happening? What planet basking.
• 15:16
  Speaker A: Even their ability to choose that word when it comes that language. And especially when you can feel joy. But saying that you're in the joy. I mean, it's just every single word that of those three. Every part.
• 15:30
  Speaker B: Yes, every part of it. Realizing he was this was not mimicking because his spoken language, he gets caught in loops.
• 15:39
  Speaker A: Of course. Yeah.
• 15:40
  Speaker B: To look at ithan to listen to Ethan, you really do think he's intellectually impaired. He looks like he is. And. And what he says, a chocolate cake, you know.
• 15:50
  Speaker A: Right.
• 15:50
  Speaker B: Like that's what he's, you know, the important things.
• 15:53
  Speaker A: Right, right. Well, he's got a point there, Heidi.
• 15:57
  Speaker B: He's his mother's son.
• 15:58
  Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. I said, maybe that's the, you know, the telepathy tapes story here, is that he's of you and you love that chocolate cake.
• 16:05
  Speaker B: And he feels it, and he feels it and he loves it.
• 16:07
  Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah.
• 16:08
  Speaker B: So. So that was the beginning. I started to go in and practice. You know, in your practice, you're typing boring things because it's practice, like playing scales on a piano. You don't. You're not playing Mozart right away.
• 16:21
  Speaker A: Although he was. But of course, of course he was.
• 16:24
  Speaker B: So he's doing the skit. So, you know, going in and he starts typing things like, I don't know what he's doing, like what he's saying, what's next? You know, give you another, like, little taste, you know, this was. He's 19 now. He was. This was. He was 9, so 10 years ago. He liked to watch the news. I laugh because, like, no one wants to watch the news now. Right, right. But he. And the, you know, I said, ethan likes to watch the news.
• 16:51
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 16:51
  Speaker B: She said to Ethan again, to Ethan, not me. To Ethan, like I had always done his whole life. Because he doesn't understand. He doesn't care. Which, you know. So she says to Ethan, ethan, you know, why do you like to watch the news? And he types, spells it out. I'm interested in global things. Really? That's fantastic. She says, why are you interested in global things? He types, I'm interested in conflict. So, Ms. Neurotic, I hear this and I'm thinking, I'm thinking, now we now know.
• 17:27
  Speaker A: Right, right.
• 17:27
  Speaker B: Knew what I was thinking. But okay, I'm thinking, not saying I get scared. Why is he interested in conflict? Like what?
• 17:37
  Speaker A: Oh, right.
• 17:38
  Speaker B: Like.
• 17:38
  Speaker A: Like, does he want to hurt people in war? And is it.
• 17:40
  Speaker B: Oh, my God. And I get nervous. I should tell you that back then, he would not type with me. And when we would. Surprise, surprise. And when we asked him, why won't you type with me? He typed, with the teacher to me. You're too tense again.
• 17:58
  Speaker A: I freaking love it.
• 18:00
  Speaker B: Right? I love it.
• 18:00
  Speaker A: He was like, mom, chill.
• 18:02
  Speaker B: The f. Chill. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
• 18:04
  Speaker A: Take a deep breath, Mom.
• 18:06
  Speaker B: I, like, really, Mom?
• 18:07
  Speaker A: Like, that's why I didn't tell you that I like conflict. Because you were gonna go there.
• 18:11
  Speaker B: I knew you were gonna go there.
• 18:12
  Speaker A: I knew you were gonna do that.
• 18:14
  Speaker B: You know? And mom, by the way. And you want me to talk more than I want to talk. Like. Okay, got it. So. But the teacher. Calm as a cucumber, because she's neutral. She's heard it all. She's been there, done that. And she says, that's so interesting. Why are you interested in conflict? And Ethan types, I have ideas for peace. We have to help people who are striving for peace. And I said, do you have any suggestions? He types, let people make their own decisions. Don't make them fight if they want peace.
• 18:53
  Speaker A: I'm like, who's. Is this the one I birthed? What? What is it?
• 18:59
  Speaker B: What? Like. And I. I was afraid of what he might say. Oh, my God. So anyway, fast forward. He still had autism, and puberty started to kick in. And those of your viewers who know, it's not pretty.
• 19:20
  Speaker A: Nope. Nope.
• 19:22
  Speaker B: And the boys, especially, can go berserk. And he was putting his head through the walls of the house. We had to bring him for an emergency MRI to make sure he hadn't detached his retinas. It was a horror show.
• 19:37
  Speaker A: I need to press pause for a second because this is why what you just shared so beautifully and openly is one of my whys for this show, which is that you just expressed a situation that was, is, and was your actual reality without gasping or pausing. Listeners that are maybe in the orbit of parents like us need to know that that is a replicated reality in homes such as ours, that he was growing, he was going through puberty, he was getting stronger, and he ran his head through the wall that you had to check to make sure his retinas weren't attached. Like, I want. I never want to make a parallel example. Right? But when I think about someone, I know it doesn't matter. Who. Whose child got injured in a sporting incident where they did have a detached retina.
• 20:38
  Speaker B: Really.
• 20:39
  Speaker A: And I think to myself, right, and you got to go immediately to get the provided service. Not because he self inflicted that, not because he couldn't tell you he was in pain. The layers of a similar injury and the emotions tied to a similar injury from our realities are so different than what that injury looks like to others. It's the environment of who our children are in their bodies creates it to be so different. So I'm sorry I just had to share that because it was exactly the same example.
• 21:12
  Speaker B: It is. And, and you know, it. It's also the tip of the iceberg that the listeners will understand that any healthcare issue. These are people who can't express and self report pain injury, any of the. Yeah, I'm getting sick.
• 21:33
  Speaker A: I have anything like they can't say.
• 21:37
  Speaker B: And I don't even know many times if they are fully aware of their own body themselves because they're different wiring the brain and the body are not in.
• 21:47
  Speaker A: Right. You know, this was been the most brutal like stomach bug flu season for. For my family. And I know most families of young kids, you know, there was a week and a half in January where I was, to be very candid, I was covered in vomit every day. I was sleeping on the floor of their bedrooms. There was only one overlap of a night when they were both throwing up. But I had to sleep on the floor of my son's bedroom because anytime that. That gag reflex because he doesn't know to sit up even.
• 22:16
  Speaker B: Right.
• 22:18
  Speaker A: I'm so cued in. Right. So as a mom, the second I'd hear a. I got up, helped him up into there. But like, you know, I'm covered in it.
• 22:25
  Speaker B: Yep, I know.
• 22:26
  Speaker A: And that's okay. But that's to your point about the level of what they don't. They can't even share. Like it's one thing to wake up, but like when they. When they wake up on a night where you don't know they're sick and they're covered in their own vomit, they can't. They didn't even come get you in the middle of the night. They just slept in it.
• 22:43
  Speaker B: Right. Right. Very quickly, we had a situation where Ethan had. In the midst of COVID he had a bone spur on his toe that the bone of his toe was growing through the nail out of his toe. And when we went to the doctor, we had to have it surgically, of course. In the midst of COVID Yeah. Go to the hospital have this all done. And the doctor said that kind of thing happens when there's been a. A trauma. Something heavy must have fallen on his foot. And he didn't report that. And until his body reported it.
• 23:19
  Speaker A: I mean, yeah, talk about a lesson in the body keeping score. Thankfully, his body did do that.
• 23:25
  Speaker B: Did that.
• 23:26
  Speaker A: And at the same time, that's the reality of what you and I have lived with, children that can't communicate.
• 23:32
  Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly. So he was entering puberty and we couldn't keep him safe. And even with the communication, you know, he would hurt us. And then we would type, why are you hurting us? He'd be crying and he would type, I can't help it. I can't help it. So we made the decision for him to go to this amazing 247 residential school for kids with severe autism and have him have the 24, you know, the support that he needed that we just could not provide.
• 24:07
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 24:08
  Speaker B: And he was okay with it. But I felt like I have failed.
• 24:14
  Speaker A: Like, the cardinal rule of motherhood is to not let this happen. And I let it happen.
• 24:18
  Speaker B: Not let this happen. I am abandoning this child. I'm abandoning. Yeah, it feels like. And I could not fix him, and I. I was a wreck. I knew he was okay because he had typed, you know, I feel brave this. I'm making a big change and my journey takes me to Boston. Are quitters of failure or choosing a different path to success? 11. 11. Hello. So. So to fast forward. I knew though the new school would not permit the spelling controversial. They don't. They don't accept it. So I went in extra sessions to work with him and I said, you know, Ethan, at this point, it's like, I'm just going to ask anything, everything. And I, you know, what are your thoughts about God? And he went on to talk about his autism as a spiritual journey.
• 25:20
  Speaker A: That God is 11 years old.
• 25:23
  Speaker B: Yeah. God is in my heart and will always protect me. And. Well, did he tell you that when I lived in heaven? He told me that. Do you remember that time when I lived with God? I wasn't named Ethan yet. What was your name? I was not to remember it. I had many before. Do you remember anything else from that time? I remember a time without a body. In heaven, there are no bodies, just spectacular energy. Did you choose to come here as Ethan Rome? Yes. I picked to be me and have many challenges. Did you pick us as your family? We were family before. We lived in a small group, but got hurt by warriors. Why? Why did you choose to come back with challenges, I will be greatly rewarded in eternity. Is there anything we should do to help you? I have to complete my journey as prescribed by God. Does it feel longer than you thought it would be? Yes. Journey is unfathomably longer than expected. And then I had to ask again, what should we do to help you on the journey? You just have to love me. And that is your job. The rest is my job to do.
• 27:01
  Speaker A: I've heard you say that, like three times now. And I still. It rocks me to my core because.
• 27:08
  Speaker B: He didn't say, your job is to.
• 27:10
  Speaker A: Fix me or your job is to find the next thing that's going to help push me on my journey or find this or to do that, or it's just to love me.
• 27:20
  Speaker B: And the thought that went through my mind when he said that, well, I found myself taking the first deep breath I had taken in 11 years.
• 27:31
  Speaker A: In 11 years.
• 27:32
  Speaker B: In 11 years. And the words, the message was just flooding me. The relief of love you. Yes, I can do that, right?
• 27:44
  Speaker A: Always. That I can do.
• 27:45
  Speaker B: I'm doing that. Yeah. Of course. Moving forward, what does love merely mean? Because it's not as you have just described this whole time. It's not only the warm and fuzzy. It is being in service, in action for the good of this other human, no matter what, no matter when, even if, and especially when you feel warm and fuzzy.
• 28:13
  Speaker A: That's right.
• 28:14
  Speaker B: But I'm here for you. That's it.
• 28:17
  Speaker A: That's it.
• 28:18
  Speaker B: For good. I am here in service to you and in service to myself. Because it's love thy neighbor as thyself. If I don't take care of me and honor my own soul and my own humanity and my own body's guidance, I can't model that for you.
• 28:38
  Speaker A: Right, right, right.
• 28:40
  Speaker B: So it begins with that knowing of loving self to then be able to love another. And then that is my job, to love my child in service to him and pour into him. And let me tell you, I receive back much more than I pour in.
• 28:59
  Speaker A: Absolutely. Hearing you share about when Ethan said, all you need to do, you just need to love me. When I think about my own journey and advocacy and storytelling about my lived experience, I specifically go back to those who knew me or have known me since the beginning of this exact phase. And when people, you know, through my connections say, you know, what did your. Or I'm a friend of a mom, my best friend's child got diagnosed, like, how do I. I want to help. I don't know how. And they want these answers, like just they Want an answer from me to give them the answer. And it's why I actually had my first episode of the podcast was with my best friend because I again giving to her. All she did was love me through the best way she could do it, knowing full well that she was not in my life or in my body or in the position I was in, but she loved. She was in service to me and to help my journey. That's all it was. And she didn't know what she was doing. She will tell you. She's like, I didn't know what Sarah, I was gonna get when you called me back, but that was part of my service as your best friend is that I was giving of myself fully to stand and hold vigil for your experience.
• 30:26
  Speaker B: Yes. She. She said the word of that committed person. I'm here, I'm here. I'm here for you. I'm here. Whatever. Use me as you will. I am here for you, in service to you, to love you.
• 30:43
  Speaker A: And I'll. And she will say back, I mean, in the episode, she's, you know, Sarah, my husband and her three kids, she's like, what we have received from loving all three of your children, but specifically Millie and Mac and what we as a family have grown and learned to lean in and love. She's like, you're ridiculous for having me on this as your first guest. We have received so much from you that it's ridiculous that you're trying to say that this episode is about me. Right.
• 31:15
  Speaker B: Well, that's the beauty. The nature of love is that it expands. It's not a little pie that we cut up and share more. It's a geometric progression. It is a total of the more you give, the more you have, the more you do, the more.
• 31:33
  Speaker A: You know, time is the one commodity, you know, we can't purchase. Right? And so what we do with our time that we never know when is gonna end, we don't really ever know. And that time and the. And when you are of service, whether it's as a mother to your child or as a friend to a mother like you or I, I always say to Kristin, you've maximized specifically, in my way, you are maximizing the beauty of your time. And I don't even know why I'm so lucky to receive that or blessed to receive that, but I am aware of that for you. And it's. It's a gift. It's a gift.
• 32:15
  Speaker B: The time is just the construct for it. It's all time in this moment. She's Present with you. And that's the power is the presence.
• 32:29
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 32:29
  Speaker B: That's where it all lives. The love lives in that presence.
• 32:33
  Speaker A: It does. It does. Heidi, we could talk for hours. We could. We could talk for hours. I am so thankful for the work that you do. I'm so thankful for your new friendship. And I'm so thankful that Ethan shares with you and with all of us what hits my heart in ways that I hope his soul feels like it's having a party. Because I think he's doing the work of what his soul has been meant to do. I do well.
• 33:01
  Speaker B: And he has expressed that in other ways that I'll share with you since we can talk about souls here.
• 33:12
  Speaker A: Yes, yes.
• 33:13
  Speaker B: And that which is greater than we see the power of all there is. And at one point, I was in a dark place and crying. And what's going to happen, especially, you know, when he ages out of the school and what's going to be. And, you know, I already was starting to put together the idea for which I'm creating for him when he does age out. And I'll come back to talk about that another time. But I was in a dark place of what's gonna happen after I die. No one will love him the way I love him, and no one will care for him.
• 33:49
  Speaker A: And what will happen?
• 33:50
  Speaker B: Oh, my God. And Ethan came through. Mom, dry your tears. I am a master soul and all is well.
• 34:02
  Speaker A: I mean, it's the reminder. He is showing us that the power that lies inside all of us is getting quiet enough. And to. And to know that the ones that will listen, the ones that get really, really quiet with yourself, that the ones that need to hear this will hear it.
• 34:19
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 34:19
  Speaker A: And how satisfying. I hope. I hope that Ethan has. I hope he has such soulful satisfaction in the continuing of just him on his own journey and how he can share that and inspire others. Thank you.
• 34:35
  Speaker B: And this experience with Ethan, as we were saying, the giver and the receiver, who knows who's who anymore? Because it's all giving. It's all. It's the love flowing and receiving and guidance for the moms listening, all this conversation is to bring us back to that inner wisdom. And in our fear, we give away our power. We think we don't have wisdom. We minimize what we know and what.
• 35:08
  Speaker A: We feel is true fear. We give away our power.
• 35:10
  Speaker B: We give it away. And we shut down that whisper. And what you just said, Sarah, is so important. It's getting away. Giving your body what it needs. Putting yourself in the environment of Nature, the reminder of who you are, who you were. Each of us, we were born to be co creators of the reality we want to have. If not for ourselves, for our kids, Right? And the how of that will be revealed to you. We have the inner equipment when we are still and listen and then trust, that is and act, honor that and act on it with inspired action. And in that place of love and inspired action, the amazing, wonderful good news is that there are no mistakes, right? It's only learning, learn, learn, learn. If it doesn't work, do it differently. Don't do it, but learn. Move forward with joy and curiosity like a baby learning to walk.
• 36:27
  Speaker A: If you fell down, yeah, you fell down. Yeah, you fell down. That's a data point for us. We understand more. Yeah.
• 36:36
  Speaker B: Love it. Love it. Another celebration when you get up again. That is this journey, especially with our amazing kids. Yes.
• 36:45
  Speaker A: Heidi, you are such a beacon of and I. I don't like the word hope. You are a beacon of the truth of what journey can and already is if we are quiet enough to listen. Thank you so much. I hope that everyone, I'll be sure to post all of the details of Heidi and where you can find her work. And I'm just so thankful you've come into my life.
• 37:07
  Speaker B: Sarah, right back at you. You are a light. Thank you.
• 37:10
  Speaker A: Oh, thank you. All right, y' all. Until next time on the Inchtones podcast.