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Sex and Jesus | Mo Isom · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: Hi friends, welcome to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: And if you are new around here, I'm so glad you joined us.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Amy Wicks, your host, and Ashley Pittman is joining us for this conversation.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: Here at Simply Wholehearted, we are sharing our journey as we discover how to better love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: And even though you might be surrounded by a world of half-heartedness, we hope to inspire you to living wholeheartedly as our friends share their stories and simple ideas of how they practice reach over perfection in their everyday.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: Alright, now all of you listening with young ones with an earshot, please listen up.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_03: This is your chance, listen.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: This will not be a common occurrence, but today's show is not appropriate for, let's say, 18 and younger, just to play it safe.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: Now I'm giving you fair warning about today's topic.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: And while it's important to be discussing this with our young kids and for certain our tweens and teenagers, both Ashley and I feel that there were s some questions that we really wanted to tackle today.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: But um yeah, it warrants today's PG 13 wording.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: So normally we're very G-rated, right?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: But in the spirit of leading the church to the conversations they need to be having, we went there.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: So you are warned, if you have young ones, it's time to pause, or maybe put in your earbuds or send them to another room to be creative.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: Alright, okay.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: Pausing, waiting, all right, that's my final warning.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: Alright.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, today's guest, Mo Isum, which y'all, if you listen to my season opener, I totally botched your last name, so forgive me.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: So today's guest, Mo Isom, has stepped up to the plate to get the church to have the conversations we need to be having about sex.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you guys, our culture is experiencing a sexual crisis, and the only one who can turn it around is Jesus.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: Truly.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: Whether you are single, married, a parent, or not, I want you to really hear the heart of the message today.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, I'm gonna highly recommend her newest book and a bunch of other things and resources, but we also wanted to take the opportunity to talk with her beyond the pages.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: We dive right in, so be warned, this is your last opportunity to make sure no kids are in earshot.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: There's Ashley, she's plugging in her ear put her earbuds now.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Hi Ashley.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: Are you hiding out in your room?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm hiding in my bedroom.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: Is it your daughter's nap time, or what do you got?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, so my husband works part-time at the hospital near us and part-time with the ministry.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so he's home today.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: I try to schedule around when he's on board here.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: So they're playing with him right now.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's awesome.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: That works out so great.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: How old are your girls?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I have a two and a half year old and a 10-month-old.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: 11-month-old.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: 11 months old.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um almost a year.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: This is such a sweet season.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: That is she walking.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: She is just starting.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Just the other day, she took her first little wobbly steps.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's so mental right now.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: She could easily be walking.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: She's definitely big enough and strong enough.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: She'll start to take a step and then she chooses to sit down.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, girl, come on.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, tenacity.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: My oldest was well, my girls were 14 months apart, and my oldest did not walk till she was 19 months.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: So can you got pregnant again when you had a two no five-month-old?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gracious.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: I got pregnant at seven months.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: I had a seven-month old.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that one he didn't walk till almost two years old.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I was birthing this baby, and I was like, he wasn't even crawling.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, I can't.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: What am I gonna do?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: Just and I like I weaned the week before she was born.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: I was just like, Lord, what are you doing to me?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: I was building like strength training.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: So, well, awesome.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we um we've been actually talking about you because I've read your book this summer.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: I actually it it was so good.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I get a lot of books, um, which is wonderful and a gift, but it's like one I posted about because I was like, everyone needs to read this.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my goodness, thank you.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: We've listened to a lot of your you know podcasts that you've done and Fality and all that stuff.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: So really, while as much as there are some great questions to ask about your book, I'm like, people just need to read your book and they can find out a lot about you there and your the book before that, but we have some like hard-hitting questions, and we've got we're just like going there, we're making the disclaimers in the intro of like, hey, put your earbuds in or don't listen to it around your kids.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because we need to have these conversations, and we're coming at it from the perspective as like moms of older kids who know about the birds and the bees now, who are in earning these teenage years, or um, Ashley's got one in her, you know, in college, early 20s, you know, just like yeah, we feel the ache.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it it the stories resonate with our sexuality and our understanding.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, there's just so many.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: So we're just yeah, we're just gonna dive straight in.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just do it.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: These are the types of interviews I like.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get to the meat.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's right.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: We love no Mo.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: We already know we love Mo.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: Now we want to ask all the questions.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I actually kind of wish my name was Mo.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I totally wish my name was Mo.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think I could pull it off.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you could make a Mo.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: You totally could.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: You could pull it off.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: You could pull it off.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: It just gets tiring, but um, welcome to Mo's like that.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: You get all the time with three students, and you're like, welcome more.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: Ah, that's so funny.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: I kept watching that Sunday afternoon.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_03: Totally did.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you gotta you gotta ask.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna heard your testimony, and you know, you were the college athlete.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, I think it's interesting that you came.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it seems like you came from a story of brokenness.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like you entered that time period, and your brokenness in your life was reflected in your sexuality, and then you come to Christ, and then you start a process of healing, right?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of your story.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'm looking at it from I've done some work with high school kids and I've been around college kids.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: I have a child that's almost 21, and so I've spent a lot of time around that age group and younger kids.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I'm curious about is this move that I'm seeing among kids who are raised in church, and then they get to a certain point and they go, you know what?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Forget that.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go to freedom.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm saying air quotes for people who are listening, air quote freedom.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm wondering what is it about the conversations we are having or the conversations we're not having in church that is leading them to the point where they're saying, and this is a here's the here's the thing.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was talking to a 20-something not too long ago about a documentary I watched.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, it was put out by Exodus Cry, and it was this exploration of like spring break week and sex actually I can't even talk attitudes towards sexuality among kind of that spring break crowd.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it was horrifying.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I came away horrified by the the attitudes, it was following this group of guys, and there was this one guy in particular, and just how he was like having his pick of all these girls, and that was horrifying.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, wait, all these girls like there was a girl that came by, and he maybe literally, she walks by his little hotel room within 20 minutes.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: He had taken her into his room, had sex with her, she was walking away drunk, falling down on the ground with her friend.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: This was just 20 minutes.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: They knew each other for 20 minutes, so I was horrified.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm explaining this to this 20-something girl, and I'm saying, This is horrifying.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, She said, Well, I was like, I can't believe the way these girls are being treated.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: She said to me, Well, don't you think that girls want to go to spring break and get laid too?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I went, Wait, what?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, wait, and I was horrified.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's like the that that attitude.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder what is driving that.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I see kind of under that, part of the reason I realized I was horrified is this assumption that girls don't aren't sexual beings.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think that plays in.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm just thinking about how we talk to young girls specifically, and you know, boys too, in that age and within the church that communicates to them you're not a sexual being or you're not supposed to be a sexual being.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you're basically here to to protect, you know, when you're not married, you're protecting their sexuality because we don't want them to stumble, and that's on you.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then once you're married, you're protecting your husband from straying away from you, and you have to meet his needs.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we're I just you know, I'm asking, I feel like I'm saying a lot of things right now.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's a lot that I'm putting out all at once.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: But it's all tied up together in the way we're teaching girls about sexuality that and you know, probably the boys too, but it's a different thing with them.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that that they get away from church and now they just want freedom to express and freedom to whatever.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm just wondering what you think it is that we're doing or not doing that is helping.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's sin nature, but beyond that, like what's happening?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um this is what my heart kind of beats for.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason that writing Sex Jesus and the conversations the church forgot felt so urgent to me because I really think sort of to summarize the fullness of what takes a lot of different layers and angles and directions and complexity is the fact that for far too long, we the word that just comes to my mind so strongly is just stifled.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: The church, the body of Christ as a whole, has just stifled conversation around understanding of exploration and communication of sexuality as a whole.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've stifled, we like try to, we've bought into the world's narrative that sex is dirty, taboo, erotic, crazy.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: How could we possibly talk about that in a pure manner?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: We've bought into what the world has sold us and kind of told us our places in the conversation as the church, which is irrelevant.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: We've bought into that.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's permeated for decades, it's permeated the body of Christ.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And what kids are really seeing, and this was a part of my story, was it was like the family assumed the church was having these hard conversations with me.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: The church assumed the family was because the church didn't know how to navigate it, therefore nobody was.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was looking, and many times these young people are looking out at a culture that is celebrating, worshiping, idolizing, twisting, cheapening, perverting sex and making it very normal, very um desirable, making the one-night stand, making the casual nature of it just very desirable.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have a world literally inundating our young people with sexual overexposure by by startlingly young ages.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the average age of exposure to pornography is nine years old.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's the average age.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: So there's ones exposed even younger.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a world that could honestly care less about the state of young people's hearts, souls, bodies, or minds.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: The world is a machine moving, making money in sex cells, and it's appealing and it's desirable.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: And the more erotic and crazy we can make it, the more it piques the interest of the flesh.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And what I think you see when these worlds collide of the church stifling, not facilitating, not celebrating sex for the glory of what it is, not even cultivating the conversations and the world promoting that it's good, amazing, right now, buy it, you can have it at the you know, snap of a finger, 20 minutes, you can get your fix, doesn't matter.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: You see a collision of these two extremes and you see disaster as a result because a healthy, understanding, middle ground conversation was never cultivated.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so what we what we see as a microcosm, especially with girls within the church, is first off, we're not acknowledged as sexual beings, which just isn't true.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not true at all.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Or we're told we're not as sexual as men, or because we're different, women and men function sort of differently in that regard, men more visual, women more emotional, and how things even get going.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not cultivated with young women.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: The conversation isn't.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: And to the boys maybe starts different, it's the same result.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's the same design.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to the same place together.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're made by God as sexual beings, win men and women alike.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: But we have so allowed the enemy to infiltrate the body of Christ and the way that we cultivate these conversations that we aren't acknowledging that truth to women enough.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're not celebrating that truth in women enough.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: We're not cultivating the conversations of why we are this way, what God's intent of it is, what the heart nature, the heart condition around it is, why obedience to what God says matters.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: We're just not cultivating any of this.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And what we're really facilitating is a religious rule list of do this, don't do that.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: This is right, this is wrong.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: You think those thoughts, oh my goodness, you've done this.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my, well, shame on you.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: We've allowed the enemy to silence us with shame.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so these young people are brought up in this, honestly, unclean spirit of religion, of ruleless.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so, my goodness, then once you have someone offering you chocolate, are you not going to want to taste?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and then as soon as we open that door when we're exposed to it and when the world makes it seem fine, permissible, less repressive, you're feeling these things like this is just the way I am, this is how I want to function.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Take a taste and you start, you're, you're, you're you're internally in the chocolate factory before you even spin over your head because it's of the stranglehold that sexual sin can so quickly, so immediately take on us.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: At nine years old, I was exposed to porn.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And at the site of that first visual exposure, it began, it triggered out curiosity and addiction in me that lasted 10 years.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the word, and I know I'm talking a lot now in response to, but I just think where we have have fallen short is in a healthy way cultivating the conversations around truth, celebrating sex for what it is, what its design was, its intent, its power within marriage, and adequately teaching on the literal spiritual battlefield that that will wage in us if we choose for ourselves versus choosing what God's designed.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a lack of healthy facilitation.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I think a lot of the times, and I see this so much when I go out and minister and hear from parents, I've literally been told not to speak about things because parents do not believe their children have been exposed to certain things.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: And they don't want them thinking about it.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: They think if they even think about it, it'll lead them to do it.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, listen, Carol, your child was exposed to this at 11 years old.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're all the kids, the kids don't know it.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: They just the parents don't want to accept it.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: The fear element of it, because I remember sitting down with the pastor's wife, not my current pastor's wife, but with a pastor's wife, and um, there was a couple of gals, and we were coming at it from different perspectives.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, one was sharing about they felt like the frustration because their husband's drive was higher than theirs, and the other friend is expressing frustration because her drive is higher than her husband's.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: And what the pastor's wife had to say was amazing.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like she had a lot of wisdom and insight.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Well, why don't you get up there and talk about it?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: Because like this is what the women are wanting to know, and this is what we need to know so that way we can instruct our kids.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: Because then that just led to me too of like, well, should I be afraid to bring it up in conversation?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: Should I be, you know, I've thought about it as you know, my girls have entered in that that age and we're talking about all the things, and there's one of them who's like, you know, la la la, I don't really want to know.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then there's another, they're like, ooh, tell me more.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me about positions.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: How often?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: What does it feel like?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, how soon can I do it?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like all these different things.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: She likes she wants to know.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: And my I know this is terrible.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, that's the reality.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's real.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's real.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: As a mom, I can't be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you're asking that.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: I have to like calm my fears and go, This is how the Lord wired her.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: How can I meet that?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because the Lord's not surprised by these questions.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: He put them in there.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_03: So, how can I answer them in a way that goes like, Yeah, you were fearfully and wonderfully made, and this is awesome.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: And this is what you should know now.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: And this is what you should maybe wait, let's let's keep having the conversation.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: And as we, you know, whatever.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: I and I don't know, I'm like walking it out, but I think prayer surrounding it exactly.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I see so often when I look at the word from a zoomed-out point of view, and what we've we've missed or forgotten, I feel like, oftentimes.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: God desires relationship with us, and relationship, you know, from your human interactions, your human relationships, there's wrestling matches, there's questions, there's bringing our griefs, there's bringing our excitements, there's bringing our sorrow.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: We're cultivating open communication with and relationship with God.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you look at the psalmist David, 90% of the time he is lamenting, he is whining, he is complaining, he is frustrated, he is crying out to God.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: But what makes this healthy and what makes this normal and what makes it literally etched into the word of God, what makes David different is that at the end of wrestling through all of these things, David always ends in praise.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: He always ends in a position of God.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't get it, but you are good.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: You are holy.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: I trust you.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: You are my deliverer, you are my comforter, you are my redeemer.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I see when I look at Psalms and what I wish I saw more when I looked at conversations amongst believers with God and conversations amongst believers with one another is that we would cultivate the fullness of what is healthy relationship and healthy conversation, first and foremost with God in our walk.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: If we're not wrestling through stuff in our heart, if we're not crying out, if we're not on our face, prostrate, asking for understanding, if we're not in the fullness of what a relationship is with God, because we're scared he's gonna shame us or guilt us or turn from us or never want to speak to us again, then we're not understanding who God is.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: God is our Father.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: He is our Jesus, our friend, He is our the Holy Spirit is our advocate, our convictor, our minister, our teacher.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think when we individually can understand the fullness of what healthy relationship and conversation with God really looks like, we can then cultivate the fullness of what healthy relationship and conversation looks like amongst one another.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: And what I love is what you said as a mother, my two girls are vastly different.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: One, plug her ears, la la la.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so how is a mother, do I specifically cultivate these conversations with her appropriately?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: The other one, I want to know all the details, tell me everything.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, how is a mother, do I not stifle this?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do I not say, oh my goodness, honey, absolutely not.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: We will not speak.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: How do I how do we as mothers, how do we as sisters in the body of Christ become what we are intended to be, which is the sounding board of truth for young people for our children, because we have truth of the word of God etched on our hearts?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, our kids are gonna come to uh I mean, if our kids can't come to us with the hard questions, they're that's not great because they're gonna go to the world with them.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: But if our if our kids they're gonna come to us to put things in layman's terms before they before they typically turn to the word, which takes more discernment and wisdom to really understand.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we must know the word so that we can then communicate that appropriately to our children and cultivate what are very hard conversations, yeah, but don't have to be hard.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: They they just they're holy.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: They're holy, and holy doesn't always look like prim and perfect and do this and how do I handle this with both children?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Steps one, two, three, and four.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: How do I, as my role of your sounding board of truth, because I am rooted in truth, how do I raise up my child in the way they should go, knowing my specific unique child?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is just the hard part of parenting.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, it seems silly, but I because I only have a two and a half year old, so you know, there's some listening in with teenagers and college age kids, just like you all, who are like, okay, young buck, like you don't even know what's ahead of you.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: These are exhausting years.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, they are exhausting years.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: This is why I look like this.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: No one Can see this, but we're great.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: We're exhausted presentation.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm like, maybe then, wherever we are, when where we're listening right now, whatever age our children is, if we haven't started now, then today is the day to begin.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: I want to begin cultivating healthy, hard, holy, deep conversations with my children now, not shying away from topics because the world's told me they're taboo, but speaking truth into every topic.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: I want to start at two and a half.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: So when she's six and a half, she's knows she can come to me.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: When she's 12 and a half, she can.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: When she's 20, she can't, you know.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think it begins right now.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think we have to begin right now.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: They have to understand it's messy.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Relationship is messy.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the psalms are messy, relationship with God is messy.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to give kids freedom and ourselves freedom to be messy and just to know that they don't come to us like that they can come with all that stuff.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a messy conversation and it's not perfect, and they can say what they think respectfully, hopefully.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Cultivate respect.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: But to have real conversations and to remove the shame, especially from this topic, and to integrate.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's just this whole disintegration of separation of church and sex.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Of church and sex and of your body and sexual.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: There's the next book, the separation of church and sex.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right on.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a titler.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you just have to like, you know, like you're anyway, yes.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think any anyway, gotta remove the shame from the whole thing because it's a very yeah.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, when you move into marriage, like you said, if you are one of those people that have, you know, a higher drive or whatever, that feels shameful.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so anyway, I don't know, just thinking about the parenting though, just to to I love that that one of your girls is like asking you all the questions.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: My face would be totally red.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I didn't say it wasn't.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna I'm gonna need a minute.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: So right, but yeah.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: Just so how about how about speak on the other side?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, because you're you're you know, a little bit of prodigal child in a way, like you went out for all the different reasons.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um your mom, like, I don't know if she handled it the right way or didn't, but speak to that of like how us as moms, if our kids go out there, they try all the things, but thankfully we still have a relationship, they come to us, they're sharing this.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: How do we process that with them?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: How do we lead them to a place where like, hey, listen, the Lord redeems all things?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so this is not past his redemption, this is not his ability, ability to restore.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: Where does that conversation go?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: How does that happen?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the way it looked for me and the way I might parent similarly, but with a few different just what I learned from it all.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: My mom, and this has always been something I have so championed about the way she handled me, and the way she's always handled me as a very difficult child to raise.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: But um, she first and foremost really, I remember almost, I remember it so distinctly growing up because I thought it was so weird but also amazing.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: But my mom really always honored in so many ways my privacy and my um, how do I word this adequately because it comes full circle?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: But she just honored my privacy and my ability as a young adult, my my God-given right to choose what I was going to do or not do.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: My free will and and honestly, which what I think would be the hardest part as a mother, she honored, she honored God in the sense of not helicoptering over me, but trusting him that I was probably gonna fall into some pretty deep pits.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: But but his grace could be sufficient to draw me out.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like that he was going to be, he was going to have to be my greatest teacher and my greatest convictor because she'd spent 18 years with me pushing back to anything she tried to teach me.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was I'm just the constant pusherbacker, you know, tester of all the boundaries.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a challenger to the mat.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an eight to the mat.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to think in Jesus, I'm a healthy eight, but like I had a zero eyebrows and unhealthy eight.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm the challenger.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think my mom just grew to learn first and foremost, there was a there was some privacy that she wanted to honor in me because it's what she would have desired at that young age, too.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: When we helicopter over, I think, how do I just wrap this up in the right words?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because it was so powerful, but it's not, it's not a dismissive honoring of privacy.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a reckless honoring of privacy.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's a God-fearing, God-trusting honoring of privacy.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because while she was honoring my privacy, she was literally on her face interceding for me for years, incessantly.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: What I love and respect the most about my mother is she trusted God enough to put me in his hands when I was off at college.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: She couldn't helicopter over me.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: She trusted God, but she always was in intercession.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: She was always interceding.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that is the that's the key there to the whole equation, I think, yeah, of letting our children be the young adults that they're becoming and learn some things the hard way and let them fall down and get scratched up, and but never miss the key part of the recipe of always being in fierce intercession for them.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is sort of how it functioned.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: And this was just with me with my mom, because I would bargain to say she's also an ape, so that became uniquely tricky too, and that we were very, very similar.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: So either like super high highs or really low lows, because we're like exactly the same and despise it.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing that even as a child I always thought was really amazing about my mother, and obviously evidence of God working in my life before I even knew it, is my mom wasn't someone to tell me every single thing I was doing wrong or had done wrong, or every single way what I had done had hurt her very deeply, or was hurting other people around me, or whatever it may be.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: She always loved me really fiercely and really kindly, to where it was when I ran up to my room and was brooding and stewing that God began to convict my heart of and open my eyes personally to the ways I was hurting others around me, the ways I had abused, the ways I had, you know, lost trust.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I was always the one to return to my mom and say, Will you forgive me?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm just realizing I da-da-da-da-da-da.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't because she was beating me with a broom saying, You're constantly doing X, Y, and Z.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was because she took the higher ground in some ways of interceding and holding her tongue at times so that God could teach me the lesson ultimately.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what was growing me so that when I was out of the nest, it was like I had cultivated this, I had cultivated a place of making great decisions, yes, but making poor decisions, yes.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: But knowing that still small voice when it crept in of this was a poor decision and here's why.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know how to explain it.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm just word vomiting.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no, I'm in this same boat.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I could ever trust to do the same thing with my own kids.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think you can.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think the grace is there.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing it.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: I have my daughter's almost 21, and we, you know, when she went to college, it was the same thing.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, okay, I'm transitioning out of like I'm not even a coach anymore, necessarily.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: I we have a really good relationship and we talk about a lot of things, I'm sure not everything, but a lot of things she comes to talk to me about, and I just know I don't always get to speak in.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I'm here to listen and I had to accept that I have to give her free will.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: And we had a conversation um, you know, because you hit a certain age and she's wrestling out her own faith and how is this gonna look for my life?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just had to tell her directly, you know, if you and I just want you to know that if it at any point you and I aren't sharing the same worldview, I'm not expecting you to make the decisions I would make.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I I respect whatever decisions you're making and you're free to do it, you know, whatever.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna fall, yeah, she's gonna fall into some pits and do some things that I might go, I wish you hadn't done that.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, because of my own testimony and my own failures, especially in this area, that I know that nothing she does is the end of anything.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's good for parents to remember whatever mistakes your kids are making, it's not the end, and it won't end them.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, hopefully I just pray she's not making life-altering, you know, major life-altering mistakes.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, on my end, God can is the only person that can really speak to her heart at this point.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if she has a question for me, I'll answer it.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: But otherwise, I don't invite I don't give advice to my adult child without asking without her asking.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that is Yeah, that's that's exactly how my mom is.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's exactly how my mom is.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: She'll and if she does have advice for me that really she feels like is imperative to offer, she will ask me if she can share her input.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: That's so awesome.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: She never just asserts it or inserts it, especially now that I'm a mother and I'm like, is she doing with her like um grandma ink?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's a you know, that's a new role too.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, all of that.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: It is a new role, and she's excellent at it.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: She is, I think it overwhelms her at times.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like when we leave both with her, she's like, I can do this, and then we get there at the end.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, I couldn't do this.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Take them all.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's all line up.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I'm too old.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's awesome.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just think as parents, we're while we have them, while we're entrusted with them, it's our job to cultivate, to be their sounding board of truth, to cultivate healthy, full, well-rounded conversations to always point back to truth and to know that in our own hearts to live it out.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: But then also gradually over time, sort of as they're maturing, heightening in intercession and lessening in holding the reins so tightly, so that in their training time while they're under our roof, they can grow in discernment, they can grow in responding to conviction, they can grow in hearing the voice of the Holy Spirit and learning.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because if we never cultivate that, when they leave the house, they're gonna have no foundation of even knowing how to navigate their faith on their own.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: It will always have been a faith ultimately by inheritance, like a faith on the leash of a parent, versus really cultivating their relationship with God, filling them with wisdom, filling them with insight, like letting them know these are gonna be the repercussions.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: These are this is why God calls what he does.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: But like working that muscle while they're with us so that when we send them out, they at least have that muscle.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: They may stumble, they may struggle, but if that muscle's been worked, at some point it's gonna start working on its own and flexing and growing.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's um, I'm not saying my mom did it perfectly by any stretch of the imagination.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'll do some things differently.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I think in many ways my mom could have brought more of that persistent, continual biblical truth to the table, more of speaking into things.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I think because we were so busy, things weren't spoken into that you know, I would like to say you're honoring my privacy privacy, but she's probably just kind of clueless too because we're going 24-7 and life is busy, you know.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: But so I think I'll I might do some things differently when it comes to just intentionality, but I do think um for the child, my poor mother was uh commissioned to get all right.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: So, well, that begs the question.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: So you've got two girls, little girls, toddler and a baby.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what does it look like for you if you see like, okay, maybe the busyness played a factor?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: How do I do that differently?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: How do you prioritize your time?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: Especially, I mean you're an author, you're a speaker, you're traveling, your husband, you're he's doing ministry.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: All those require a lot.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: So how do you how is it working for you right now?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: What are you trying to do in your life?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's such a great question.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: So we really have been coming around, especially lately, with you know, two, with my husband coming on to the ministry, with the intensity to which travel is picked up, demands have picked up, asks of us have picked up.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: We stopped and realized, okay, first and foremost, we need to develop um our family's like mission statement.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: We see ourselves as a multi-generational team.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is what God always intended family to be.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: We're in a very like individualized culture.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like the husband goes off together.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's one we're a unit.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like we we live in such an individualized culture.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: It just seems the norm now that the dad goes to this job, the mom goes to this job, the kids go off to school, we see each other at night when we maybe eat a di a meal together.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like we just really started um thinking and praying around like, what's the end goal of family?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: What's the purpose of family?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I my friend Jeff Bethke and his wife Alyssa Bethke, um, he's an author and a communicator as well.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: They just move so passionately in this type of ministry.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: They have young kids as well, of just speaking, coming back around the idea of what the family was always intended to be and how we simplified to sort of revive that.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so what we had to do first and foremost was we developed out sort of our family's mission statement.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're a multi-generational team.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, what are the eight pillars of our mission?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: What do we feel like God has us on mission for as a unit?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so once we sort of fleshed those things out, we were able to more easily take, grab an opportunity and say, okay, this has been presented to us.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: Does this fit what our mission statement is?
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is this a good yes for us?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or is this gonna make us busy and not actually have like an end goal of productivity or unification for us?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've begun becoming a lot more intentional about what our yeses are and what our no's are.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like we're just in a time where everything's accessible and exciting and um right at our fingertips.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so we as people we say a lot of yeses and we end up more burnt out than we are ever building anything of substance.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've just started to come around sort of the family mission statement, weighing our yeses and no's accordingly.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, those things are going to evolve as our family evolves as the ages change.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: But even within the ministry, because a lot of times ministry and life can get very blurry lined because ministry is life and it's like you're sharing your life.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: But we've set similar parameters in that.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: What are our best yeses?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: What are our hard no's?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what do we bring and pray about together as a family?
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think for a lot of people listening in, it's like I don't think we're intended to do life of seeing our family members five minutes of a day, and then we all go off to our room and we're on our own devices, or we're all spread out at different places.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: And like maybe I saw my 12-year-old today, or maybe he's up in his room doing who knows what on his computer, or you know, I just don't think that's what's ever intended.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the breeding ground for isolation, even if you're in a household of eight people, yeah, it's a breeding ground of isolation, and that is what contributes to lack of conversation.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, secretly.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: And that is what contributes all of that.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's just a style of that.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: All of that.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so some people are listening and they're like, okay, well, that sounds amazing and idyllic for you, but we have soccer practice and baseball.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: We're already in these things.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what does that mean?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I would just commission or challenge anyone listening to say, maybe take a night, sit down with your spouse, or if you're a single parent, sit down and just map out the top priorities.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's like Bob Goff, who's like, this sounds like a silly quote, but he's literally like, today's a great day to quit something.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Life can get so busy, so full, so cluttered.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think it can be really beneficial for all of us to sit down and say, okay, what are the most important things here?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: Probably the most important thing is that is that, or one of the most important things is that healthy conversation is happening in our home while I have my kids in my home.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that when they're off for spring break, they have a voice of truth in their mind and they may make different decisions because we cultivated this intentionality here versus just lived a busy life and never poured out good feelings from us or good morals from us.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's so good, Mo.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: I I I love that you're getting it with your kids at this age and this stage and where you guys are at with your ministry because that that's just the trajectory of like the Lord can use that and it leaves less room for the enemy to get in because ultimately this is a battle against Satan's plan to destroy family, and we have to create a battle plan and structure and like a fortress around our families, and that takes on like I get that a lot of us shape against the idea of like goal setting and writing it down, like it feels uncomfortable, but it's some of those practices that build those walls of protection that will indeed protect us when because there will be plenty of attacks and opportunity for the enemy to get in.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: So we've got to be exactly.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's so good, it's just awesome to get to see.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_03: Also, another thing we like to talk about here is soul care and soul rest.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: And you're probably trying to figure out how does that look for you as a mama and doing all these things.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: What's what's working for you that you're like, oh, this brings so much life to me?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: Because each of us are different, right?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, we have maybe five or six things that do that for us.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_03: There's for sure things that do not do it for me.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: For me, is social media, like that does not equal social media.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: Soul burden.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_03: So, what works for most?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, first and foremost, and this is the big grandiose, but soul care.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: I recently just um decided out of the blue, my husband was about to turn 30, and I was like, you know what?
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: Sitting back, sitting down and looking back at the last few years, we really haven't just gotten away together.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we haven't taken a vacation.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: We have not just been us, not doing ministry, not traveling for this.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I surprised him on his 30th birthday with a trip to the Bahamas, and I'd like planned it all out, and that's that just surprise element, and then just being alone away, intentional time.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Now that's obviously the grandiose way.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: So our date nights serve that in the smaller ways.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Even just when the kids go down and we're like, tonight is a movie night.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: We're not going back up to the office, we're not those really intentional times of hey, let's just the two of us right now, like let's connect.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's small, whether it's big, that has been the greatest like soul care for me lately, especially because I've started intentionally focusing on it lately.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you just it's wild.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: We just sit there in that time together and we feel like newlyweds again and like just being silly, and we just realize we love each other so much.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: Why has it been like two months since we've sat down and watched a movie together?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like and that seems so silly because I've only been married four years, and and we really are we get along so well, we're low super low conflict.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I think even sometimes when you just are great at doing life together, yeah, you forget even more so like uh oh wait, maybe we should pause, you know, pause and go do something special.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um that was really good for my soul.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_03: To remember it's not just a business partnership, it's a relationship and to go back to those practices that you did when you were dating.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's always that's always a ticket for the relationship.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: Copa, what did you do when you were dating that made you fall in love?
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: Or that was fun.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so that's great.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we just love we love that.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: That that was so good.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, also a big really helpful thing.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is gonna sound so silly too, but there's nothing.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_03: Nothing's silly.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: I am like, I am an organized person.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: I love organization.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: If my home is clean and organized, it's like good for my soul.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: I feel lighter.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: But enter two kiddos, and uh while it's still wonderful, it's not like uh immaculate.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so recently I just started.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I actually had my friend Megan, she just came in and she reorganized my Christmas closet, like our closet of you know, your Christmas, your random things.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I looked in there the other day when she finished, and it was just these beautiful labeled bins of organization.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, totally.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then Megan's Yes, they came and did the same for our garage.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're just loving us well and serving us that way.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like it's not like our garage was filthy, but like it could have used a good like blowout and reorganization.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I just look at those things and it like does some I'm a better Christian.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Once my garage you're having a bad moment.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: I just need to go look at my closet.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's so good.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: Organization.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's been good soul care.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'd say thirdly, um lately I've been trying to get better in the habit of getting up before the house wakes up.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and just literally, it sounds so mund, it sounds so like cheesy, but literally just getting a cup of coffee and spending some time in a quiet home before everybody wakes up.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm with doing some dishes, getting some things folded.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: That quiet time is even if it's only 20 minutes, 30 minutes, it is like good.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: It is better than sleep.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: It gets my it changes my whole day.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I can tell that's the same for y'all with heads.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: I can't, I can't wake up to someone standing over me saying I'm hungry.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hungry.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good start.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: I can't.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um just didn't sleep, all had sleeping issues early, all that sort of stuff.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: So it took years to reclaim that time.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: And it was a stretch at first because it was like, I had to set my alarm for five.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like there was no other way to beat them.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: But that has become like it just it I could not not do it.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's just the way it is.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I look forward to it so much.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's worth even if I went to bed too late to make it happen.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: I get it.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're still kind of in that like throes right now of sometimes like Asher, my youngest, she's up, she's up at two hours, and then I'm up there with her, like nursing her.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so sometimes we're we're in bat season.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: You were talking about of where sometimes it's unpredictable.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, the times that we can't, it's just so worth it.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's literally, it talks about in Proverbs 31 woman.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: It I I would have to look at this script the scripture exactly, but I think it literally talks about like she rises before her household.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh, maybe she's on to something because it's really good for my heart when I do this.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: Too bad she didn't have that programmable coffee pot.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, that's not funny.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: The thing is that I come down and it's there.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's just I can depend on it.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's ready.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't do anything, I just poured the cup.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's my favorite.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: Mo, thank you.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for your time.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_03: I the ministry you and your husband are doing and just feel called to.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it takes so much guts.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like having a conversation about sex takes guts, but writing a book and sharing, like airing your story and and that you and your husband agreed to share your stuff.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's empowering and freeing.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm excited for a movement.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, really.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just believing for a movement because I want that for our culture, I want that for our youth, um, because it's so personal to me.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway, just from a one mom to another and also a mom that's really grateful you're you're doing some of those that hard work.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we appreciate you.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: May the Lord bless you greatly.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: I will say it's um it's it's amazing to there's revival coming.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can just feel it coursing through my bones.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you uh there's a wave coming, the pendulum will swing back.
• 47:05
  unknown: Right.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes hearing someone else be courageous first is what helps us feel courageous around the same thing.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: So for anybody listening, I'm not trying to sit here, you know, sounding so, oh, this is easy, and why haven't you been having these conversations?
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: And this is, you know, what we have to be talking about.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm genuinely sitting here as the prodigal who returned home and having seen God redeem something really beautiful and feeling a fire in me to reclaim sex for the glory of God and to see revival.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sitting here saying, like, I get it.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: I get how far off we are right now, how hard this stuff is to talk about, how oftentimes shameful even our own past can be, and how we can feel ill-equipped to even talk about it with our children or whatnot, because we don't even know the answer.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's like we said earlier, it's messy, but I always come back to the phrase that God gave me one time of like, it's the hard but holy heart work, it's the hard but holy conversations, it's the hard but holy learning that we need to do so that we can literally affect our marriages, our children's lives, generations to come.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: His mercies are new every morning.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so why not rise up right now and begin today?
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it doesn't mean it's easy, it's it's hard, but it's holy, and holy is always worth it.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's always worth it.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's my pleasure.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_03: Right on.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: Now I know this conversation is weighty, but I believe each one of us can do our part to discover personal, biblical sexual freedom, and we can encourage beneficial and truthful conversation within our homes and among those we have accountability and vulnerability with.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_03: Now I'm fairly certain there will be more episodes in our future as we navigate what it looks like to have wholeness and to enjoy God's gift of sexuality.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: So in the meantime, be sure and get Mo's book, It's Sex, Jesus and the Conversations the Church Forgot.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: And you can also find her on all the socials.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_03: There is for sure more on this topic if you would like to explore from a biblical perspective.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I highly recommend a podcast I've listened to for years.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_03: They have over 200 episodes, and it's Java with Julie.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_03: She has topics regarding intimacy and marriage, singleness and fertility, money.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: So much more there.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um definitely check that out and listen to it with your earbuds in though.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, for this week's Meaningful Minutes, I decided to stick with the topic, and we're gonna focus on building our spirit, mind, and body, right?
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_03: Because sex is the whole person.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_03: Spirit, mind, and body.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I would like you to continue on the conversation by debunking some myths you might have about sex.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_03: Now, we may have some of this figured out by now and maybe not, or maybe you're just needing some language to articulate and debunk the myths for your kids as you have conversations with them.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I really want you to hear if you haven't figured this out already.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_03: I want you to hear this conversation today and not just go on with life as normal.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_03: I do want you to give yourself time to ask honest questions in hopes to understand better what Jesus actually thinks about your sex life.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: That's right, we all have a sex life, whether we're married or not.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_03: He created us to be sexual beings and he can redeem the broken places he really does desire for us to know his truth.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_03: If we can get this message to transform our spirit, mind, and body, we can then live, teach, and lead from a place of wholeness.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_03: Mo has created a series of videos to give a better answer to some bad sex of ixi and focus on the family uncovered on Twitter.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I think this week it's worth spending 15 minutes meaningful minutes, so check it out for yourself.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, I'll put all the links in the show notes.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_03: Alright, now we're gonna dive into your Aneagram coaching questions.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_03: I've been sharing with you all about my coaching journey throughout the last spring, and now I get to share some of the answers to your questions.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_03: If you'd like to join the conversation, we'd love to hear what you'd like to know about the Aneagram.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_03: You can submit your questions through our link in the show notes, or reach out to Simply Wholehearted or myself, Amy Wicks, on the socials.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_03: You can find us on Instagram and Facebook wherever you can share the conversation.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_03: And please do share it.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_03: We love it when you pass along with the meaningful minutes, the helpful resources to all your friends and family.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_03: Today's question is, how has understanding the Aneagram strengthened your relationship with your husband?
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: Well, since a sexual relationship is so strongly connected to emotional health, I thought this one would be perfect to answer.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_03: The Aneagram's strongest benefit is to better understand your inner motivations, right?
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_03: Your inner world, your thought life, why you do what you do.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: Therefore, when we have a greater revelation of the message our heart longs to hear, which the Aneagram does provide for us, we can then communicate this need to those we love most.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_03: So when I can articulate my needs, which isn't always easy to do, instead of expecting my husband to be a mind reader, which I tend to do, there is a greater chance for us to have better communication and connection.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_03: And of course this goes both ways.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_03: Now I understand why he's more likely to give me everyone else's perspective on a situation and not just take my side on any given topic.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_03: So when the Aneagram gives us language for why we think what we think, we can operate with a deeper sense of the wholeness Christ has intended for us.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_03: Alright, lots there, but I hope that gives you a good start for your Aneagram journey and how it can better your relationship.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_03: Next week I'll be back with your coaching questions about the Enneagram, so keep those great questions coming.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_03: I hope you're enjoying these extra segments as much as I am.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_03: In the meantime, join us on the socials as we continue on our journey to living simply, wholehearted.