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Transcript

The (X) Hamster Files - Conduit (featuring Agent Iain Martin) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:25
None. Music.
0:59
I have many agents at my disposal, Agent Morris, Agent
1:05
Bottomley, but the agent that I send in for the most covert
1:09
missions because his surname is so ambiguous.
1:13
Agent Martin. Hello.
1:16
Hello, Assistant Director Ford. Excuse me, I can't sue you for
1:23
all the bloody smoke in my office.
1:26
That would be me. There's a sinister man leaning
1:30
against the filing cabinet over there.
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He's been there for ages, you know.
1:34
He's probably pissed. He generally turns up, you know,
1:37
at the start of 45 minutes and then he buggers off at the end
1:39
of 45 minutes with some contraption.
1:41
He says he's going to the Pentagon, but I don't know what
1:43
he's up to. Well, it's probably someone's
1:46
birthday at the Pentagon. You can drop off a card or you
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know. Yeah, Office 1.
1:51
Scratch card, Yeah. We've had that conversation.
1:55
Yeah, Ian, Hello. Hello.
1:56
How are you? Gorgeous?
1:57
Yeah. I'm very well, thank you.
1:59
I've just had a little nap actually, so I'm feeling quite
2:01
refreshed. Are you refreshed with the
2:03
attendant reduction in the lymphocyte population and did
2:06
you have a release of glucocorticoids?
2:10
Very. I didn't realise that Agent
2:12
Scully was on the call as well. My God.
2:15
She's she's just, she's just over there making a cup of.
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You but tea wish she was all right.
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Yeah, I'll bet you've had a few thoughts about Agent Scully and
2:24
your missus making tea together. There's a photo I was looking at
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on Facebook of me and my friends and it was from my graduation,
2:35
so late 90s, and it's in my student bedroom.
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And you can see kind of about the 1st 25% of what used to be
2:44
the Agent Scully shrine. My entire wall was literally
2:47
covered in posters. And I did spend about 20 years
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having a an insane obsession with Agent Scully.
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And and then I watched the fall and I realized that it really
3:01
was nothing to do with Gillian Anderson, who I have moved on
3:04
from. It was Agent Scully.
3:06
There was something about the character of Scully when I was a
3:09
a wee nipper. You know what it is?
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Yeah. It's because she don't have no
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time for none of that. She's all business, Agent
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Scully. And in, what, 11 seasons?
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She barely gets her rocks off once.
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I think she goes on a date once, and obviously she has that baby
3:24
remoulder, but that's something to do with aliens.
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But apart from that, she's just not interested.
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I mean, nothing's more of a challenge, is it, than when
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someone's not interested. It is.
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It's a red rag to a disappointed bull.
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About getting an idea now here, of your sort of teenage years.
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Bernie Summerfield in one hand, Scully in the other.
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Yeah. You're like a competent woman,
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don't you? You know I do.
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Competent woman I do that's I and I tend to end up with them.
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So I end up sort of neglected because they're all busy doing,
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you know, loads of important grown up stuff.
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I can only imagine, you know, you're quite keen on Clara
4:02
Oswald as well, probably. Yeah, I don't.
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Actually, embarrassingly, yeah. I've got a photograph of me pre
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coming out right. I know it's hard to believe and
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on the wall is like various clippings from magazines and
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things of women all over my bedroom wall when I was trying
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to sort of convince people right in the middle is.
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A picture. Really badly cut.
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I'll find it for you because it's so funny.
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I mean, just just how the shrine on the wall is assembled.
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You can tell that, yeah, that person's gay.
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He's taking no care to cut out those women.
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There's Julian Anderson in a weird pose.
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With her legs wide open and she's sort of like leaning on
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the floor. It's so weird, the picture, but
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yeah, she was my she was sort of like my cover, you know, my
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cover wife. She was your alibi.
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Yeah, she was. I mean, nowadays I look at her
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and go, my God, I may be on the turn actually.
5:00
She was beautiful and she. She's amazing.
5:03
Were you a massive fan of The X-Files in the 90s?
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Do you know, I, I really was, I think it, it kind of filled not
5:12
only the Doctor Who gap in my life, but also the Twin Peaks
5:16
gap. It, it was American.
5:19
It had David Duchovny in it. He was in Twin Peaks before
5:22
that. Heavy sink score as well.
5:25
Yeah, yeah. And it was full of weird stuff.
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So it was perfect for me and I lent into it, I suppose,
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slightly too hard. I bought the VH s s that came
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out randomly. I watched it all.
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I watched the movie. I had the PlayStation game, I
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had some of the books. I even came back for the last
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two series that were in the last sort of 10 years.
5:48
Oh, so you did the whole run? Oh yeah, many.
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Ways We've been talking quite a lot then, unfortunately in the.
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Next 10 years, I imagine we will, yes.
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Why do you look a bit scared right now?
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It's just the thought of going back to it all well.
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That's a good place to start, actually, because this is right
6:09
back at the beginning. Episode 4 can't do it.
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So this is, you know, out of the gate X-Files.
6:16
Yeah. How do you think this stacks up
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like to to television now? I, I think it looks I was, I was
6:30
watching it and thinking this is five or six years before Buffy.
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Not that, not that I divide time up into before Buffy and after
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Buffy I go with like everyone else.
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Well, sure, sure, sure. I was thinking it does look a
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little bit dated. It's still got that kind of late
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80s aesthetic that TV had until Buffy and and basically Scully's
6:58
hair. She's got this kind of weird
7:01
curled, kind of like 1940s femme fatale look.
7:05
It's like she thinks she's Lauren Bacall or something.
7:08
And the. The clothes, right?
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She clothes very bumsy clothes as well.
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There there wasn't a lot of a lot of fashion going on until
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maybe season 5 or 6 where they obviously got a pay rise and
7:21
spent all their time buying clothes together.
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I don't know, but I thought in terms of the pacing and what the
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episode covered, I thought it was still a really good one.
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I mean, I've been surprised that I've done 4 now for this and the
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pace of the episodes. I actually think in some ways
7:44
because they are, you know, one off episodes rather than
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serialised TV which we get all the time now.
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It all feels really fast to me because nowadays you watch
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something like Stranger Things and you know the plots just.
7:55
Advance a little bit each episode, don't they?
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Generally speaking, you don't have a beginning, middle and an
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end. Everything's just.
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Just sort of sauntering along towards the climate every now
8:04
and again. They take a bit of a a quicker
8:07
pace towards the end of the season.
8:10
Doctor Who's probably the only TV show or one of the only TV
8:14
shows still doing sort of standalones all the time and
8:18
some might say quite archaically, but fuck me, I miss
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TV like this. Ian, I do miss that sort of 90s.
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You get a one off and then you get the conspiracy episodes.
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So you get the the choice between the Ark and the monster
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of the week. Where's your preference?
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So if you were asking 90s Ian and he'd still be asleep at this
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early hour of the night, so don't bother.
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But I would have been all about the conspiracy, and I could have
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sat down and talked for hours in an incredibly annoying and
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tedious bit of detail about, you know, the the rebels and the
9:01
colonists and the black oil and Tunguska and Lauda.
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But do you know what? It's got a little bit hard in
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saying all those things. You're the only person that's
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gone that deep so far. Oh, I, I, I go deep.
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But now I think because I didn't pay as much attention maybe to
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the episodes that I knew were just, you know, bottle episodes.
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And I was just watching them mainly to look at Gillian
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Anderson and, you know, because it was The X-Files and I was
9:29
waiting for some conspiracy stuff.
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And it's only now that I realise how wrong I was.
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And David Duchovny's a beautiful human being.
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It's got. A scene in this right Suddenly I
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was 13 again and he's on the bed with his top off, isn't it?
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Yes, he was come in and I can still, and I think that may have
9:50
been my awakening of just like I'm feeling strange things about
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that man. I don't know what it is.
9:56
Well, I mean, so I'm a huge fan of David Duchovny and I, I've
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read his novels. I.
10:01
Novels has he written? Yeah, he's written he's written
10:04
4 novels. He's made two or three records.
10:08
He I've, you know, I've watched all of Californication over and
10:13
over again, so I've seen more of him than probably any other
10:17
living human being is. That that California, that one
10:20
you could. It's it's quite hard to say
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isn't? It is he sort of like having a
10:23
middle life crisis and that having sort of having it off
10:26
with younger. Women, so there's AI have
10:29
absolutely no idea if this is true, but there's a kind of
10:31
general understanding that David Duchovny was caught doing a
10:35
digital dirty at some point in the around about 2010.
10:39
Exactly, exactly. But he was caught and it turned
10:42
out he went to one of these sex addiction clinics.
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And at the same time his day job was being in Californication
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where all he does is bang people off right and centre and film it
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and have to be on set with like incredibly naked young women.
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And I think he was making life a bit hard for himself if he's
11:01
trying to fight sex addiction. But it's a yeah, yeah.
11:07
You go in there and you you say I have a sex addiction and they
11:11
look at you very sternly and you just say I just, I, I wank all
11:15
the time. And.
11:17
They every man would be in there if that was the case.
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Well, every man who was happy and comfortable admitting that I
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I would still suggests that actually I was hoovering in the
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other room if anyone asks. No, he was watching Conduit.
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Yeah, I was watching Conduit and David Duchovny was in the corner
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whacking off. I was naked on the bed so.
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He was naked on bed and he, and he is, you know, I, it's, it's
11:49
ridiculous to suggest that he's a kind of Renaissance man for
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the ages, but I genuinely like his books.
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I genuinely like his music. I genuinely like his acting.
12:00
The older he gets, the better he gets, which I think is probably
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in stark contrast to The X-Files.
12:07
There's something in that because I think that I think he
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falters a little bit in Series 1 and he's they're finding out how
12:14
to write him. And we've, I've sort of
12:16
discussed this on the other episodes, you know, because he's
12:18
supposed to be, you know, a geek who's absolutely obsessed with
12:22
finding his sister and the paranormal.
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And yet they brought in this sort of supermodel to play him.
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And that's, you know, very unusual to have a supermodel
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get. Well, yeah, but.
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I'm sure you get geeky super. I mean, yeah, we're quite geeky.
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And I would. Yeah, and I did find in the
12:43
first three, like he's great and but he's sort of struggling a
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little bit with the exposition. And you've got to get get into
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this mindset of science fiction. And The X-Files is sort of 1
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foot in the door of reality and 1 foot in the door of science
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fiction. And I think Julian Anderson just
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got it straight away. And Duchovny takes a little time
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to, but by the time you get to Series 2, when when she's
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pregnant and then the show is his for a period, he just aces
13:15
it. And from that point on, I think
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he knows exactly what he's doing and delivers some incredible
13:20
performances. Yeah, I think you're right.
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I think in it is in the back half of Series 2 that he sort of
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really owns the role. And I guess, as you say, most of
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it is the fact that the writers know David Duchovny now, and
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they know what works and what doesn't work in episode what in
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the pilot where he's sort of wearing those glasses and trying
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to do this kind of, do you think I'm spooky?
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It just doesn't work. In this episode.
13:47
He does this sort of classic interrogation, banging on the
13:51
desk and shouting and doesn't it?
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No, it doesn't work at all. But it doesn't.
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Work at all because. You don't know where you're
13:57
buried them, Tessa. Yeah, he doesn't know how to
14:02
deliver it convincingly. He's trying to do it in a
14:06
performative way, but it doesn't chime with that geeky persona
14:10
that we're supposed to believe is there, which clearly really
14:13
isn't there. And and it's kind of that, you
14:17
know, Molda's character that, you know, you get this, you get
14:20
this huge set of, of data points about what a loser he is.
14:25
He, you know, he's got all this pornography.
14:28
He hasn't even got a bed until he gets taken over by the guy
14:31
from Spinal Tap. He's just a, a sad, lonely
14:35
disaster. But he's always an incredibly
14:38
handsome and cool disaster. That's what they realize.
14:41
Ian they realize that at the end of one because then in is it.
14:45
Sleepless. It's the one the one where
14:47
Chrysler comes along and they say I'll just put him in Speedos
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and I've been coming out of a swimming pool and they do.
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And my life is never the same again if I.
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Want to? I mean, it worked with Ursula
14:57
Andress. Yeah, well, why would David
15:00
Duchovny? But I do think think during the
15:04
emotional scenes of Conduit, and he gets quite a few of those, I
15:07
think he's very good in this. And what surprised me about this
15:12
episode, which I don't think he's particularly highly
15:14
regarded, is that there's an emotional through line with this
15:18
that wasn't there with the first three that I found really
15:22
moving. And the parallel between Ruby go
15:26
missing. So you know, it's focusing in on
15:28
this family of three and immediately that's a great idea.
15:32
You know, that's a good idea for television.
15:34
You know, focus your big idea through a couple of characters
15:37
that you care about. And then paralleling that with
15:40
Molder losing his sister. And suddenly you have an episode
15:43
that works as a small domestic drama and as an X file arc
15:48
episode. It's it's juggling both and I
15:50
think it does both quite well. I'll tell you what I think.
15:54
I think, and I probably wouldn't have suggested this back in the
15:58
day, but certainly now I think this is the episode you show to
16:01
someone who says what's The X-Files?
16:04
Yeah, because it's not ARK, it's not conspiracy.
16:07
You don't need anything at all. And in 45 minutes, you get
16:10
Molder's back story with his sister.
16:13
You get Scully being Scully. You get a self-contained story
16:17
which is inconclusive and may or may not involve aliens.
16:20
It's it's textbook perfect by the book X-Files.
16:25
I really like as well, like, yeah, it is inconclusive.
16:28
And I remember being irritated the first time I watched it.
16:31
I was like, well, what the hell happened to this girl?
16:34
Because the the bikes come over the hill in the woods and then
16:38
she's just there. It's like, so was she taken by
16:40
the bikers? Was she taken by aliens?
16:42
Can this show? It's like fucking lost.
16:44
Will you please just give me an answer?
16:46
One week. I have a third theory, Joe.
16:49
Maybe they were alien bikers. Oh, that would be a great story.
16:53
Have you ever seen that Blake Seven episode with the alien
16:56
space rats? You know they're bikers with
16:58
crazy mohawks. I've seen all of Blake 7, but I
17:02
have forgotten all of Blake 7. Maybe it was them, you know?
17:06
Maybe it was. Maybe it was in a desperate
17:08
attempt to get back on TV. Terrifying.
17:10
I haven't worked since 1980. You know though, right, If this
17:14
had been maybe 10-15 years later when those lights came in in the
17:19
forest and, and all the bikes came tearing through, it would
17:21
have been what's that coming over the hill?
17:25
I've been playing something like that.
17:31
But I think it's a good mystery, this.
17:34
And I think the reason I was really engaged with it is I
17:38
really like, and her name's Carrie Snodgress, which is a
17:42
great name for an actress. I really like the woman playing
17:46
Darlene Morris. It's a sort of awkward, unusual
17:50
sort of a performance, but I totally buy that her whole life
17:55
has been affected by an alien abduction when she was younger
17:59
and now her daughter's now. I just thought it was a great
18:02
term. Yeah, it was.
18:04
It was really strong and she had a real charisma and I don't want
18:08
to suggest that a lot of kind of episode of the weak actors lack
18:13
that. But she really I mean, I was
18:16
reminded of Margot Kidder from the Superman movies, you know,
18:22
and I had to sort of Google who's this actress?
18:24
She's really good. She's slightly too old perhaps
18:27
to play the mother of devil faced baby child.
18:30
I forget his name, Kevin, but Kevin, thank you.
18:36
But but I don't know. And she was, yes, she
18:40
absolutely, you know, kicked everyone else off the screen.
18:45
The. Wonderful bit Ian, where mold is
18:49
sort of going. Oh yeah, I believe, you know,
18:51
he's sort of sitting there at the table believing every word
18:53
and then he goes off and she goes to Scully.
18:55
You know, every time I talk about this, that's happened.
18:58
People have a look in their eye, just like the look in your eye
19:01
right now. And Gillian Anson, she just
19:03
looked straight down. She can't even look at her
19:05
anymore. It's a great thing that's.
19:07
Lovely, isn't it? It's and it's so good in terms
19:10
of that early unspoiled dynamic with Mulder and Scully where she
19:16
is scientific, open minded, but she will she will point to the
19:22
more likely explanation first. Oh, those trees were scorched by
19:25
lightning, you know, Oh, well, there's been a you know, she's
19:28
pregnant. She ran off with her boyfriend.
19:32
And Mulder is not kind of like the Cliff Notes Mulder that he
19:38
becomes, he, he thinks things through, he talks things
19:42
through, he wants to lay things out so that people can come on
19:45
the journey with him. And it's it's just a really
19:50
perfect capsule episode to introduce the show to anyone
19:54
who's who's never seen it before.
19:56
This is. The way that they put in the
20:00
mystery of his missing sister was such a savvy move because
20:04
he's always got like an end game right that he's looking for.
20:07
It's not just the aliens he's obsessed with, which he is, but
20:10
there's there's like an emotional hook for him as well.
20:13
And the bit where there's a bit where he says about.
20:20
You know, someone going into a room and hoping, I think that
20:22
Darlene says it, I'll go into a room and I hope that she's just
20:25
going to be sitting there. Yeah.
20:26
Mold has been doing that with his sister for, what, 13 years
20:30
or something like that. So for the parallels are are
20:33
really real here. And it means that Scully could
20:36
see an overly obsessed man that is far too emotionally involved
20:42
in this. I mean, he goes up to a picture
20:44
at one point and starts stroking the picture of what's her name,
20:48
Ruby. Ruby.
20:50
And I'd be like, what are you doing?
20:51
Please don't do that in front of a mother like.
20:53
Yeah, that is that is a little creepy.
20:56
It's on the cusp, but let's go with his being tender but.
20:59
She waits, doesn't she? Like she she, she knows why.
21:02
And she's shown that fire at the start by the fellow at the FBI
21:07
and this. Is Scott Blevins.
21:08
Scott Blevins. He's only in series 1 I think.
21:11
And he has like 1 episode at the start of series I think The
21:17
start of series 5. No, the end of series 4 killed
21:20
up tribunal. It's an X file that I'm sure
21:23
he's killed off at least nine times.
21:24
Because, well, they find Mitch Peleggy, don't they?
21:26
Mitch Skinner. So they go.
21:27
Well, it Blevins anymore. Yeah.
21:29
Well, I think, I think they decide that they need to have
21:33
someone in that role, like on a, you know, week to week basis.
21:37
And therefore we need to go and cast someone new who's younger
21:41
and sexier because it's American telly.
21:44
Skinner I love it. Skin man Yeah, I'm.
21:46
Never convinced whose side is on.
21:48
I don't care, you know, it's just great.
21:49
It's. Very odd when he's turned up on
21:52
Stargate flying spaceships, but anyway, never mind.
21:56
So at some point, you know Scully is going to say to him,
21:59
will you please stop running after your sister?
22:01
This isn't about your sister, it's about somebody else.
22:04
That look on his face when she says that and he doesn't correct
22:09
her, does it? Because he knows she's right.
22:11
But he's still he's still determined.
22:14
He's not going to let it stop him doing what he's doing in
22:19
pursuit of Ruby, because the larger end game of finding Ruby
22:25
might be finding a clue about Samantha.
22:28
And that's not going to affect anyone or or throw the
22:32
investigation off. He's just he's got to do this.
22:36
You know, he's how many how many times is he sort of looking a
22:39
bit sheepish when the the mother comes and she's like, oh, not
22:43
you again. And he's like, hello?
22:48
I'm living outside of the tent now.
22:51
How many seasons of this might be the answer to Samantha's
22:56
mystery do you think we've got in this?
23:03
Because we get quite a few possible explanations over the
23:06
years. Yeah, I think it's it's a shame
23:11
because it it is a central part of Mulder's character and Mulder
23:15
is very much the star and the point of the show.
23:20
So I think, you know, the the whole X-Files lives or dies on
23:25
Moulder in this quest. And the way those things do or
23:29
do not ultimately get resolved is evidence of the what I call
23:38
the Chris Carter syndrome. Well, it's where you have a
23:43
really good idea for a beginning of a thing.
23:46
Oh, and then you make it up. And then you just throw shit at
23:50
the walls maybe? She's an.
23:52
Alien ship shifter. Yeah.
23:54
Oh, I don't know. Look.
23:56
Oh, he's been killed. Let's bring him back.
23:58
Oh. Maybe she was made out of bees.
24:01
I. Don't know, let's give away the
24:02
whole back story in a piece delivered straight to camera as
24:07
a pre credit teaser in season 6. No one will expect us to do
24:11
that. Are you talking about Redux?
24:13
Jesus Christ, that whole. Episode is just a load of
24:16
speeches to camera. Yeah, maybe she was made out of
24:19
black oil, I don't know. Maybe she was killed when she
24:23
was a child and she was just weird ghost with a load of
24:25
ghostly kids. Who knows?
24:27
I'm sure we'll find out one day. Who knows, maybe it was that guy
24:31
with the paper hearts. Will will literally never know
24:35
until we get it. There's there's some banger.
24:38
There are so many bangers. I've got your name on some
24:40
bangers, you know. So so this is my my thesis for
24:44
revisiting The X-Files now is that the I I am prepared in our
24:50
our 21st century plasma TV high definition Fandango for some of
24:56
the monsters and aliens to look a bit shit until maybe season 6
25:00
or 7, at which point the budget goes up and things start looking
25:04
really good and the. Jersey Devil alone, please.
25:07
I'm not going to touch the Jersey Devil.
25:09
He's yours. She's.
25:10
Your son. Yeah, I know, I was thinking of
25:14
Steve Tyler from Aerosmith anyway, but while the while the
25:18
production looks better, as the show goes on the storytelling
25:23
just gets more and more ridiculous and half assed.
25:28
I mean, I, I, I am of the opinion, and I can't wait to get
25:33
there, that there's actually a bit of a renaissance in eight
25:36
when Robert Patrick comes in. I think 7 gets very lazy.
25:40
Dukovny and Ads are so bored by that point and I don't think
25:44
they're getting on. And so no wonder he goes in and
25:46
then Patrick comes in, who's such a great actor, and suddenly
25:50
Anderson's game is raised from there to like somewhere in the
25:53
stratosphere. But then nine hits and they
25:55
can't. They just can't leave Molder
25:57
alone and it's like you've got 2 new regulars now.
26:00
Give them something to do. No where's.
26:02
Molder. OK, fine.
26:03
No wonder it ended. It's yeah.
26:07
And it's the problem is obviously revisiting the show
26:13
now. We're going to be looking at it
26:14
through the eyes of people in 2025 who've seen things like
26:19
Game of Thrones, where a creative team have had an
26:22
overall idea for a beginning, middle and an end.
26:26
And that just how wasn't TV was made in the early 90s when The
26:30
X-Files was commissioned. They they could never have known
26:34
when the end was coming, so they could never have ended the show.
26:37
So Chris Carter's job was to keep all the plates spinning and
26:41
I. Don't think even Carter knew it
26:43
was going to last for nine seasons.
26:44
Well, I think you. Figured it maybe had three or
26:46
four in it. Yeah.
26:47
And then move, absolutely. So.
26:50
So in some ways, and we are obviously looking slightly down
26:54
the road, but in some ways you could argue that they're doing a
26:58
good job towards the end. But, you know, some of the
27:03
better episodes I feel maybe slightly nearer the start of the
27:07
run. I mean, I've got the Jersey
27:09
Devil next, so I know that the first true clanger is around the
27:13
corner, but this is 4 for four for me.
27:16
Absolutely. I think the pilot, Deep Throat,
27:20
Squeeze Squeeze, and Conduit are all really good episodes.
27:25
There was a couple of things I thought didn't work in this
27:28
episode, and that is the subplot with this girl Tessa, right, who
27:34
very men menacingly talks through library bookshelves and
27:40
and some weird sort of pregnancy angle.
27:42
It's a big red herring, but it does take up about 10 minutes of
27:45
the episode. And you're right, it does lead
27:46
to that hilarious interrogation scene that is so operatically
27:50
dramatic. And it's honestly the the
27:53
lighting in that scene is so the.
27:56
Top. I was like.
27:57
Also, what another thing I like about that scene in particular,
28:00
but this episode as a whole, is how kind of tactile it is.
28:04
You've got like a close up on the tape machine and a close up
28:07
on the glass in the window of the door, and it's that kind of
28:09
bubbly glass and you can just imagine what it would feel like.
28:12
And then you've got a close up of the surface of the desk and
28:15
the skylight, and it's just a really solid, touchy feely kind
28:21
of episode. That's nonsense.
28:23
But I never go no. I know what you're saying.
28:24
Well, no, because you know when he fills the the top of the
28:27
caravan and it's all burnt, Yes. I could just feel that, you
28:30
know, or that weird disorienting scene when she's in the caravan
28:34
at the start and all the lights are coming through and the
28:36
caravan's been shaken around like the Star Trek bridge set
28:39
you. Know yes, I think it's.
28:41
Well directed this and and you know, it's very much so I don't
28:45
think there was TV like this at the time, not really, not to
28:48
this standard, not as polished as this.
28:51
I think we'd had, like I said, we'd had Twin Peaks, but apart
28:55
from that, it was still cop shows and, you know, things
29:00
ongoing story of the week, kind of things that didn't really
29:05
have this kind of low key cinematic angle because they
29:11
weren't because they were looking at cops driving around
29:14
San Francisco or it was a hospital surgical arena, you
29:19
know, But suddenly you've got lights in the sky, you've got
29:23
mysterious mythological figures and beings and you can have a
29:28
bit of fun. You can stretch your legs as a
29:30
director. So this is kind of one of the
29:33
building blocks from Twin Peaks through to the Golden age of
29:38
television in which we now live. I fucking love culps, you know?
29:42
I'm sure you do. What you're going to do?
29:44
Do you think there's a There's a Fly on the Wall documentary
29:47
about two podcasters, Joe and Ian?
29:51
There should be, yeah, yeah. Can Boys?
29:55
You're going to. Do what you're going to do when.
29:57
They're in your ears. Oh, you're wonderful.
30:00
Can I say something that you may not like?
30:03
Sure. I actually think Twin Peaks is a
30:05
little bit overrated, but hang on, I do think it's Seminole.
30:10
I do think it changed the TV landscape and I do think there
30:14
are some startling moments in it, some some of the most
30:17
scariest moments. The pit whip up goes over the
30:20
sofa. Don't even don't understand.
30:22
Scariest things I've ever seen don't.
30:23
I've been triggered. Help me, listeners, help me.
30:27
I've come here in good faith to talk about The X-Files, and now
30:30
Bob is climbing over a sofa at me.
30:33
It's so scary. Well, and I think the pilot of
30:36
Twin Peaks is probably the best TV pilot of all time.
30:41
I do think somewhere in Series 2 it gets lost in a load of weird
30:45
comedy subplots and eccentric characters.
30:48
And by the end of two, I'm just like, yeah, this needed to end
30:51
here. It's the same basic cause and
30:55
effect as what we go on to see happening with The X-Files.
30:58
And it is. Condensed, right?
31:01
Yeah, exactly. It's like, it's like, it's like
31:03
we the studio are ordering you to resolve your plot in episode
31:09
8, but we've commissioned 24 episodes.
31:12
We want 24 episodes. So what are they going to do?
31:16
Yeah. And it's the same with this,
31:18
with Chris Carter getting the phone calls, you know?
31:20
Yeah, we're going to do another, you know, five years of this.
31:24
He's like, oh, fuck me. All right, Chris.
31:26
Carter's got the. Bigger songs.
31:29
God, I can't remember the last name David Lynch didn't have
31:31
with Twin Peaks is he's got his monster of the weeks so he can
31:35
just bash out individual episodes whereas Twin Peaks was.
31:39
So it was such a ensemble piece, wasn't it?
31:43
And sort of a soap opera running along as well.
31:46
And all of that is that when the big running storylines are over,
31:50
it's like, well, we're just left with the soap now.
31:54
Yeah, and it would have been the same imagine for a second had
31:59
the end of Series 3 of The X-Files, Bin Mulder finding
32:03
Samantha, solving the overall mystery.
32:07
The conspiracy guys all get arrested.
32:09
They're all at some restaurant somewhere having a meal and
32:12
smoking cigarettes and laughing, and they all get arrested and
32:15
everything's solved. And then it's like, yeah, but
32:17
we've still got to do another five years of The X-Files,
32:19
Chris, so can you make up a second story?
32:22
Oh, sure, we'll have super soldiers and.
32:25
And it's so. Crazy, though, right?
32:26
Oh, John. Yeah, I love him.
32:28
It's so crazy because they went to movies after 5, so that
32:32
should have been the end of the TV show.
32:33
And they called the end of five the end.
32:36
The last episode is called The End.
32:38
And then they did Series 6. It's like, OK, and then.
32:42
Well, so Series 5I, I, I want to say there was a period of time
32:48
where it legitimately was the end because there was going to
32:51
be a movie and because there was going to be no more production
32:55
in Vancouver. I think there might have been
32:59
probably a period of a few weeks before, Dukovny said.
33:02
Oh, well, if you're going to LA, I'll, I'll come with, you know,
33:05
that's fine. If I can, you know, drive, drive
33:09
into work from home every day, that's fine.
33:11
I'm glad. I did because.
33:12
I think 6 is my favorite year of the X.
33:14
Files yeah, I I I4 or 6, four or 6 for me.
33:19
Halfway through six, they end the conspiracy.
33:22
They murder the entire conspiracy and two fathers and
33:24
one son. Nope, we're going to keep going.
33:26
So halfway through series 7, they solve the Samantha mystery.
33:31
Nope, they keep going. At the end of Series 7, they
33:33
write out Mulder. No, they keep going.
33:36
It's like, what the hell? This thing is unstoppable.
33:39
It's unstoppable and it's becoming faintly terrible like
33:43
it. I and I watched the whole of The
33:45
X-Files about 10-15 years ago when I got my first laptop and I
33:49
had a a three hour each way commute from Canterbury to West
33:54
London. Three hours each way.
33:57
Ladies and gentlemen, have you ever heard such?
33:59
Brutality. 4 episodes each way. What are you?
34:02
Complaining about yes it was and sometimes I could even get a
34:06
seat. Of the way I was, you could get
34:08
a glass of wine as well, I mean. Just lie there on the floor
34:11
watching X-Files, it was brilliant.
34:13
But at that point, the end of season 7 and and Moulder leaving
34:18
kind of really hit me as being this is this is bad television.
34:22
This is this because Because the whole X-Files is Mulder, Yes?
34:28
And yes. And he?
34:30
Doesn't he's the believer as well in series 8?
34:33
She's and Mulder's name. I'm going to, I'm going to
34:35
suddenly believe in everything. And you don't even see him
34:38
getting fired. Spoilers, guys, for anyone who
34:41
hasn't watched the show yet. But he gets fired and it's all
34:44
off screen. And he's like, Oh yeah, I'm off.
34:45
Bye. And she's like, fuck, I've, you
34:48
know, aren't we? You know, we've been flirting
34:51
for seven years. Are we not going to?
34:53
And I've got a bun in the oven. Like what am I supposed?
34:55
To do here Oh. I love that season so well.
34:57
I can't wait to correct you on all those wrong assertions of
35:00
series. Well, I.
35:01
I look, I look forward to it in another 10 years if I've still
35:05
got any sort of functioning memory by that point.
35:08
That's right. Can you please hang on for
35:09
another 10 years at? Least I'll do.
35:11
I'll do my best, thank you very much. 10 years sounds about
35:13
right. But no, no further.
35:15
I don't want to. The way the world's going it, I
35:18
kind of agree. With you, yeah.
35:19
Yeah. I have a couple more questions
35:23
about Conduit. Now, of course, we're talking
35:25
about all of The X-Files because this is our first conversation.
35:29
And that's sort of gone that way with everybody.
35:31
It's like everyone's had these opinions for years and no
35:34
outfits to get them out. And they're like, well, Joe Ford
35:36
will fucking talk about anything, so I'll do it with
35:39
him. Have you ever seen Poltergeist,
35:42
Ian? I, I, I want to say yes, I it's
35:49
one of those films I probably watched with my first girlfriend
35:53
who we watched a lot of films together, but I don't remember
35:56
any of it do. You imagine the writers of
35:58
Conduit may have seen Poltergeist.
36:00
As well the. Child looking at the TV, pulling
36:03
out the information. So.
36:05
So having done some sort of superficial research, I am led
36:09
to believe there are certain visual and thematic parallels
36:13
between this and the film. The elements of this were sort
36:17
of wholesale stolen from, yes. Yes, which the Exiles, as a
36:21
horror anthology show I think has every right to do.
36:25
Indeed it does. Its version of Nightmare in Elm
36:27
Street Later and Hellraiser and all sorts.
36:30
What are you going to do with with the monster of the week
36:33
format? If not do homages look at Doctor
36:36
Who? It's like, yeah, we're going to
36:37
do this this week. We're going to do Phantom of the
36:40
Opera, we're going to do blah, blah, blah.
36:42
The whole, you know, The X-Files, the story of the week
36:45
kind of episodes. We're talking about an 11 season
36:50
TV show over 250 episodes that I don't know how many like
36:56
mythological horrors there are in American folklore, but you've
37:00
got Sasquatch, possibly the Jersey Devil, the Mexican goat
37:05
sucker, El Chupacabra. There's a finite number.
37:09
And the rest of the time they've got to make shit up all they can
37:12
do a homage. And often in all television,
37:17
those homages can be really amazing.
37:21
So occasionally they can be. Occasionally they can be.
37:23
Dire. But yeah, Terrible.
37:25
Yeah. I mean, I imagine Carter had
37:26
some sort of subscription to, you know, some weird conspiracy
37:30
rag and. Just was going through.
37:32
Going ohh what they saying of this myth oh let's give it a go.
37:35
You know, great green bugs that come out of trees that when it's
37:40
when it's light, they they fall asleep, but when it's dark, they
37:44
eat people and spin them into webs.
37:45
Oh, we can do that. Let's go.
37:47
Actually, that's a good episode. That was a great one.
37:49
Yeah. I like that one.
37:51
Yeah. The, the, the thing with Chris
37:52
Carter is he's, you know, he was quite famously this kind of
37:57
surfer dude. So he's exactly not the same
38:01
sort of person that I am. He was, you know, probably a
38:04
good looking man, healthy, outdoorsy, lot of girlfriends,
38:07
blah, blah, blah. I don't feel like he was kind of
38:11
nerdy, sad and bitter enough to have become this kind of
38:15
conspiracy minded believer who would have created the show.
38:20
I think he was doing a lot of like, and this is before Google,
38:24
but whatever they did before Google, he was like, oh, tell me
38:28
stuff I don't know about. I reckon the lone gunman, I
38:31
reckon Chris Carter had three friends who were a bit geeky,
38:34
bit sad, who fed him pretty much everything, every idea that ever
38:38
got used. But.
38:39
I think that exactly what you described there, because Carter
38:43
was sort of, I'm going to use the word hip, you know, but it
38:47
wasn't a massive geek. Yeah.
38:49
I think that's why the show caught on, because it meant that
38:52
it weirdly managed to straddle that line between procedural and
38:56
science fiction. And it was.
38:58
It didn't go too far in either direction.
39:00
Occasionally, both. Occasionally it was too often a
39:04
detective show, and occasionally it was too often a science
39:06
fiction show. But more often than not, it was
39:08
sort of found the middle ground, which meant those that love
39:11
science fiction could watch it, and those that hated science
39:14
fiction could watch it. Which is why, come Series 4,
39:17
it's getting more higher ratings than the fucking Super Bowl.
39:20
That's why it dominated the culture of the 90s.
39:24
That's why Duchovny and Anderson became international sex
39:27
symbols, because it was TV that everyone could watch.
39:31
You know, the the the geeky guy, the wife who likes a cop show,
39:35
or the geeky wife and the husband who likes a drama or
39:39
procedural. It was, it was a careful balance
39:44
that they managed to keep up for at least most of the first two
39:49
seasons, I think before they felt they kind of had to go one
39:52
way or the other, but it was. The comedy side coming in then
39:56
so all the comedy fans could start watching.
39:58
Yeah, you know, it literally it, it did everything.
40:01
But I think it was crucial to its initial success that it, you
40:08
know, it, it was this kind of. Cool bit of TV by a guy because
40:13
if someone like us had been in charge Joe, we'd have fucked it.
40:17
Ratizing, yeah. Episode 1, you'd have seen an
40:20
alien, there'd have been UFOs and that they would have been.
40:24
Hanging over it would have been like a Doctor episode.
40:26
They would have been hanging over New York or wherever it is,
40:30
you know? You'd have had you'd have had
40:32
Trinity Wells on the news telling you all the aliens are
40:35
here. We'd have had no subtlety.
40:38
I would have had a massive blaster and been like.
40:40
Die aliens, whereas have you never?
40:43
Ever Milhouse. You've never seen the invasion
40:46
in The X-Files. The cliffhanger to the last
40:49
episode in Series 9 is the invasion will come in 10 years.
40:53
What? We've waited around nine seasons
40:56
for this. Jesus Christ.
41:00
But I think that's why it was popular because, yeah, it did
41:03
walk that line. I mean, the swinging it around
41:06
to the homage. Again, the closest poltergeist
41:10
moment in this is the kid in front of the TV going you know
41:14
he goes there. In there and he points at the.
41:17
Static. Well, in Poltergeist she goes
41:20
there here. Right.
41:24
But it does lead to what I think is the most striking visual in
41:28
the episode, and that is all those ones and zeros becoming
41:32
Rudy's face from above. And it's kind of an obvious
41:36
trick to do, but it's a great moment.
41:38
I love that Scully sees it because in the first 3 fucking
41:41
episodes she keeps missing everything.
41:43
She absolutely she's I'm just going over here in case the UFO
41:47
appears. What happened?
41:49
You missed it. Yeah.
41:51
Oh, sorry. I was just.
41:53
I was just putting some money in the meter.
41:55
What did I miss? I've been kidnapped and
41:57
systematically buggered by a team of aliens.
42:00
I don't believe you. Yes, it was a great moment.
42:02
She goes up the stairs. She peers over the balcony and
42:05
just quite unexpectedly from her perspective, the the sheets of
42:10
ones and zeros are the huge face of his missing big sister, I
42:14
think. It's Ruby.
42:16
Yeah. And she goes, My God, it's Ruby.
42:23
It was. It was excellent, yes.
42:26
And, and I just want to say a moment for the very last scene
42:31
where I mean, I've sat through some agonizing moments of Scully
42:34
at a keyboard whilst a voice over plays over so far.
42:37
And I know I'm going to get many more of it in series one and
42:40
two. But her listening to the hypno
42:43
regression tape of Mulder talking about the loss of his
42:46
sister and how much it means and cutting to him in the church
42:51
crying, I found that genuinely moving.
42:54
And the music was great as well. And it just felt like if we
42:58
weren't given a narrative resolution here, we were given
43:01
an emotional resolution. It's like the investigation into
43:05
Ruby allows Mulder to let his grief out about his sister.
43:10
Absolutely. And it's the first time that
43:13
we're able to we explore that back story in an emotional
43:18
context. It's kind of alluded to, I think
43:20
in in the pilot through dialogue.
43:23
Oh yeah, Mulda's got this shit going on from his past.
43:27
But this is the first time that we get to explore it.
43:30
And it's not this kind of a really obvious, here's a story
43:35
where someone's seen someone who we think is Samantha.
43:38
And it's not done in a ham fisted, clumsy way.
43:41
It's quite elegantly there in the background to this story.
43:45
My, what I took away from it because Mulder is very not
43:52
quick, but he's, he's very sure of this, the idea of the
43:57
conduit, the person who sort of acts as the, the, you know, he
44:01
channels the aliens or whatever and he is, he assumes that Kevin
44:06
is doing that is, is he drawing a parallel?
44:09
Was he the conduit when Samantha was taken?
44:12
Is that what we're, is that what we're supposed to take away from
44:16
this? I mean, maybe.
44:18
I mean, we'll see that abduction for real in Little Green Men in
44:23
season 2, so I shall keep my eyes peeled.
44:25
Was Molda the conduit? Was he?
44:27
Was he with any binary action going on in his notebook?
44:32
Isn't there here or? No, also as well, like he sort
44:37
of he doesn't verbally condemn Darlene for saying that.
44:41
I just don't she's back now. I've got her back and I don't
44:44
want I don't care where she went.
44:46
I just got I've got my daughter back and Molda's pissed about
44:49
that. But I kept thinking to myself,
44:50
well, if he got Samantha back, would he be any different?
44:54
He'd be like, I've got my sister back and but he's so obsessed at
44:58
that point. And what I will say is the one
45:01
thing they get so right in closure in Series 7 is when he
45:06
finds out what happens to Samantha.
45:08
And whether you like the answer or not yet, there's a parallel
45:12
storyline of a man who's utterly obsessed with his missing
45:16
daughter in that. And it's Molder from Series 1.
45:20
And they're making the parallel that Molder now has found peace.
45:24
And that's who he was. And this is who he is now.
45:27
And he's gone on that journey and.
45:29
And that works really, really well.
45:31
So we have to kind of see him like this now in order to where
45:37
we are. Yeah, I think he's great stuff,
45:39
this. It is, it's a really strong
45:42
episode and and I am, you know, very much in agreement with you
45:48
that we've had four absolute belters and I don't remember
45:52
enjoying any of the 1st 4 episodes as much in my re watch
45:57
15 years ago as now. I think this because we've seen
46:02
so much quality television and we're used to it now.
46:05
And you look at this with slightly different eyes and
46:08
you're able to appreciate it a lot more so.
46:12
I mean, Ian, I mean, I'm going to, you know, select a number of
46:15
episodes for the middle of the season for you, if that's all
46:17
right. And I can promise you it doesn't
46:19
stay as good as the first 4 episodes of the season.
46:22
Well, no, no. Can I ask you what did you start
46:26
watching it with Season 1? I did.
46:29
The first one I saw was that dismal werewolf episode towards
46:32
the end of Season 1 with the Native Americans.
46:36
What's going around ripping people up and scared me so much.
46:40
I mean, I was, you know, I was only a nipper and I wasn't
46:43
watching horror at the time. Like horror terrified me, but it
46:47
was sort of naughty, you know, that it was really quite
46:49
graphic. I was like, Oh yeah, I want to
46:51
see some more of that. So I got the videos like you,
46:54
and then I've got the DVDs, you know, Then I got the Blu rays
46:57
and now I'm fucking streaming them.
46:59
I've got so many versions of these episodes.
47:01
But it got his hooks into me because it was quite adult and
47:05
quite graphic and it just had an ambience of disquiet about it
47:09
that I wasn't used to in television.
47:12
Will you do me a favour, please? We're rating these episodes as
47:17
we go along. We're doing it sort of in the
47:20
the school, sort of away from a plus to F.
47:25
So, and what we've got to do is you and me, we've both got to
47:27
give a score and then we've somehow got to come to some sort
47:31
of arrangement for a final score between us.
47:35
OK well so if I if I was a teacher, which thank the Lord
47:40
I'm not, I would be tempted to give this AB minus.
47:46
Now, if it wasn't for the Tessa stuff, which I think does drag
47:50
this down a bit, maybe the Bikers Cafe as well.
47:53
It's a bit cliched. Do you?
47:55
Remember the barn? He goes off.
47:58
Been off to Lake Okobochi. I got all these burns.
48:02
They stole my ear. Scan He's.
48:05
Looking at him like. How?
48:07
How is this? And he's like the, it's like the
48:09
last thing I'd have led with that.
48:11
I'd have been like, oh, you're looking for aliens like these
48:14
who did this? My ear has been burnt off.
48:17
All right. Don't you tell me aliens don't
48:19
exist? Without all that stuff, I
48:22
probably would have given this maybe a B plus.
48:25
I think the but yeah, I think some of that stuff drags it
48:28
down. I think I would probably give
48:30
this a B minus as well. And that's, you know, that's
48:33
sort of 6-7 out of 10. That's still good.
48:35
That's very good. That's, you know, if I'm writing
48:38
an essay and I get AB minus in my little heart, that's an A and
48:42
that's that's the kind of half assed human being I am.
48:46
I never saw Abe and until I learnt about sex and then I got
48:49
a pluses all the way. Well, there you go.
48:53
Well, listen, thank you very much for exploring my conduit
48:56
with me. It's been a joy to rummage
48:59
around against dank recesses. I mean, I'm wondering where on
49:03
earth to send you next. You know, gender bending
49:05
perhaps. Or, you know, religious
49:08
fundamentalism in the Miracle Man.
49:10
Or, Oh no, I've got it, I've got it.
49:12
You've done a conspiracy 1. I know what you can do next.
49:16
What about a load of horrible clone little girls, Eve?
49:22
Oh, do you remember that one? Oh, I do.
49:25
Yeah. That sounds great.
49:27
Little cows, they are going around killing people.
49:31
OK, well, until we we start poisoning half of America with
49:37
those little girls. Thank you very much for your
49:39
time today. And I'll just say until next
49:42
time. Until next time, thank you.