Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Alex Adelman - Lolli CEO: Entrepreneurship in Bitcoin - Simply Bitcoin IRL

Transcript

Alex Adelman - Lolli CEO: Entrepreneurship in Bitcoin - Simply Bitcoin IRL · Simply Bitcoin

0:01
What's up everybody? Welcome to another simply
0:06
Bitcoin IRL. Looks like you guys are really
0:09
enjoying these so we decided to do more today.
0:14
I have a buddy of mine, Alex, he's the CEO and founder of
0:18
Lally, I'm sure a lot of you guys already used the service.
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And how you doing, Alex? You've been on the show a couple
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times? Yeah, good to be back.
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Happy to have you, man. So how's the bear Market?
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Good was good. As it can be right.
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If we can't, we can't go up all the time.
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But, yeah. I think I think things are
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things are going pretty good. I mean, right, right.
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Right now, I think that now is an incredible time to get into
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Bitcoin. And yeah, as you know, we've
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created a way for people to get into it for free.
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So, I think there's a lot of companies that require you to
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buy Bitcoin to get To and that's just a harder sell at this
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point, you know? LOL, he's free while he makes
1:01
Bitcoin easy and free. So, yeah, try to make it easier
1:05
for people to, on board. No matter if it's a bear Market
1:07
or a bull market, so doing okay. So one of the things that I
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always hear from people that, you know, run Bitcoin companies
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is that the bear markets are brutal, right?
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We've seen all this, you know, all these mining companies.
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Just pure capitulation, some bigger companies, as well from
1:26
your perspective. You know, the CEO of pretty
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well-known, pretty successful Bitcoin company.
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How is that been? How has the bear Market treated?
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You have, you had to downsize, like, what have been some of
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your experiences know. We've been bringing on more
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people, more companies, joining Lolly, it's, you know, we've
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launched in a bear market, we've weathered bear markets before
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and this is you know, our team, our team Second company.
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So, you know, we've been through lots of ups and downs of the
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last 11 years, of, since building, our last company
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together and then this company over the last four years.
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So I would say, you know, we're well prepared and for this kind
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of market and really yeah, just trying to bring on more
2:16
Merchants. I think a lot of people talk
2:19
about consumers joining Bitcoin like you know everyday Mass
2:24
adoption I think is you know what we talked about but we you
2:27
know, we You look at both sides of the market for us, are both
2:30
consumers and Merchants, and Merchants are finally, the ones
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that have been holding out for four years or finally like yeah
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that mean Bitcoin is inevitable at this point and they want to
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join. So we're bringing on new
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Merchants every day that are giving Bitcoin rewards on
2:46
people's everyday purchases and then top of funnel like new
2:50
people joining Bitcoin. It is definitely it's harder.
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But we have, you know, our site users that are using Lolly every
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day, every week, every month, and we just launched this new
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product that lets people earn in store that's doing very, very
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well. And so yeah, just just growing
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during a bear Market. I think, I think it's a time to
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build and, and people are are joining.
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So, it's been good, right? That's the thing, right?
3:17
Is the bear Market, you know, the you don't have the volume
3:20
that you would normally have during the bull but it's kind of
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like a it's like a blessing in disguise because it really just
3:30
allows you to concentrate. Just put your head down and, you
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know, just build, you know, in our case it's just better
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content. Your case is just a better
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product and it's almost as if the The Silence Is Bliss, is it
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feels really good? Like the all the the tourists
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like I say, you know, disappear and the rear the people that
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stay or really the big believers Exactly.
3:56
And you know, I think I think, you know, kind of what I
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mentioned earlier, in our case, it's an easier sell right like
4:03
free Bitcoin, you don't have to go buy it.
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So you're not telling your friends, hey, go buy Bitcoin and
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give, you know, quote unquote, Financial advice when you're
4:15
doing. So, then you're essentially
4:17
taking Fiat money and you're putting into Bitcoin is, you
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know, financial decision with us.
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It's like you're just learning Coin back on top of any card or
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on top of any purchase. So again, it's like an, it's an
4:29
easy, it's easy to sell just like, tell your friends about
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and get them off zero or get them more Bitcoin.
4:35
Yeah, absolutely. So when let maybe, perhaps, some
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people are not familiar with what Lolly does, what do you
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mean? Free?
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Bitcoin sounds to, to sounds way too good to be true.
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That's why your biggest criticism.
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Yeah, it sounds too good to be true but then people start
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learning it and then they're like oh my God, this is
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incredible. So yeah.
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Recruited the leading Bitcoin towards company.
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We partner with Merchants these Merchants give Bitcoin rewards
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to our users when they shop. So it functions very similarly
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to a cash back program but instead of doing cash back we
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set people up with a Bitcoin custodial wallet and give them
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Bitcoin into their into their Lolly wallet.
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So yeah, it's a, it's a very straightforward.
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I mean like more details about About it is, if I go to let's
5:26
just say, Nike, or if I go to Shake Shack or CVS, you know, I
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can go shop it for shoes anywhere and go shop for Tylenol
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or whatever. I'm looking for anywhere, but if
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I use Vale and I go directly into a CVS using using Wally, I
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actually can get Bitcoin back on that purchase.
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So all he has influence that sale and gets an incentive for
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for that sale. Gotcha.
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No, it makes sense. It's cash.
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Back and when you say you are loli is the biggest rewards
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platform where your main competitors.
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I think it's fold, right? I don't, I don't really look at
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photos at competitor, but I look at rakatan or honey as being
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like a competitor's giving like Cash Back Rewards or coupons.
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So yeah, I think like, you know, there's been a few copycats that
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have emerged over the years, they're trying to like, mimic
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what we're doing but here I think we've created the most
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sustainable way of working with merchants and I think to this
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day, we're still one of the only, if not the only That
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actually has over a thousand, Merchants Partners on the
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platform and growing every day. What has been some of the
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hurdles that you ran into starting this was it more, was
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it more regulatory hurdles or was it more?
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So was it more? So just companies or just we're
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not interested, right? I'd I think I was on Amazon the
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other day and I saw the Lolly thing pop up.
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So you guys are somewhat integrated with Amazon now know.
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So that's a that's a good conversation piece actually.
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So we created this way for people to actually like shop
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Amazon and then get recommended all of our other Merchants.
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So if you're going to Amazon, we call it our conquest and Tool.
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So if I'm like, if I'm like, Sam's Club, or CVS, or
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Walgreens, or Or one of our one of our partners.
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And I'm actually on Amazon, and I see, there is a, let's just
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say, like, Tylenol for the earlier example, I can actually
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see where I can actually save money and earn Bitcoin when I'm
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on Amazon. So we figured out little hacks
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for partners or places that people that have not partnered
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with us that have been holdouts, 24, actually like our users to
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actually figure out where to earn earn Bitcoin.
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We realized that people use Amazon very much for a search
8:04
engine and a lot of people use it as their primary Merchants.
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But when given the opportunity to earn from our other
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Merchants, they'll actually go shop at our partner Merchant.
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So we built that tool and it's been incredible to see the shift
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from from people shopping at Amazon, to decentralizing and
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going to other Merchants that offer Bitcoin back and are
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Bitcoin friendly, Merchants unlike Amazon Amazon, shut that
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down. No.
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So the laws of the internet is as soon as a page is loaded,
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it's fair game for anyone to build on top of, or create a
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layer on top of his probably the best way.
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So it's sort of a legal hack of the internet is that?
8:48
Yeah. We it's a tool on top of any
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site that lets you earn and it just it just gives our users the
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ability to earn more. I mean, one of the biggest
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requests, I think when we first launched was, hey, when Amazon,
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like, you know, Is Amazon joining Lolly?
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And we're like, okay, well, you know, Amazon's the biggest
9:07
Merchant in the world and are online and they weren't going to
9:13
join any time soon. There are they're behemoths.
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And and, you know, they have no reason to be Bitcoin friendly.
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And so why wait for them to join us?
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I reached out to them every month had many conversations
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with them and they weren't going to join any time soon.
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And so you know, people are not going to Weiland ayy was.
9:33
And something. So a company like Amazon
9:35
interested in because I feel like it would be a win-win.
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Are they trying to implement it themselves?
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Eventually they just don't do, they don't really do cash back
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as a whole. So it's not it's not even
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Bitcoin for them. It's actually like they just
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don't work with Partners like ours.
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If you think about like, the macro companies that are
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offering cash back or basically offering an incentive for you to
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shop at there, Our store at their, at their online shop.
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And so Amazon doesn't need an incentive.
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They're already number one. So, everybody else off is
10:09
offering an incentive for you to shop at their store versus
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Amazon. But Amazon should hypothetically
10:15
be the last Merchants to join because they just don't need it.
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And so, my goal is every month to keep sending sales away from
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Amazon and give people more Bitcoin.
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It's an Arbitrage play and it lets our users earn more Bitcoin
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from other merchants. Want to incentivize people more
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than than Amazon does. So it's less about Bitcoin for
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Amazon and more about cash back and loyalty as a whole gotcha
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makes sense. So, one of the things, one of
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the topics that when I tweeted out and it's the concept of
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starting a Bitcoin company and I think that there's definitely a
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lot of people that, you know, could see themselves as fellow
10:59
entrepreneurs or Bitcoin. Entrepreneurs, actually.
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Ran into very young guy at Bitcoin park today and he was
11:07
still interning at know. He was he was, he was still in
11:11
school. I was like, hey, why don't you
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intern for simply Bitcoin? He's like actually, you know,
11:15
I'm starting a company to facilitate cross-border friends,
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like, holy crap. It's such a young age.
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You have obviously launched a successful sustainable Bitcoin
11:28
business. What was that?
11:30
What were the early days? Like what?
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Would you have wished you knew when you started Lolly?
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Great question 41. And when you, when you go
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Bitcoin only it makes it does make everything harder.
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It's really, really hard to be a Bitcoin only company in this in
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this world. We you know, four plus years and
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and going and we still Bitcoin only and I think I think it's
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gotten even more challenging, the more currencies that are out
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there the more communities that are building outside the or
12:03
adoption by other chains. But we as a team, you know,
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believe that Quinn is the best currency in the world and and
12:11
his already proven its value to society.
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I think business models around Bitcoin are very tough.
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I would encourage everybody to because if you think about like
12:24
if everyone else is competing, it's not too dissimilar from the
12:27
Amazon example. I said earlier, Bitcoin really
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doesn't need too many things built on top.
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That it just is. And so if you think of like the
12:38
incentive mechanisms that exist with exchanges, they're
12:42
incentivized port on transactions.
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So the more your transacting, the more money, The Exchange is
12:49
making. And so it's in their best
12:52
interest to offer as many altcoins shit coins as possible.
12:58
Can I say that, by the way, on the show, you can say whatever
13:01
you like man. Okay good.
13:02
Okay. And so it's in their best
13:05
interest. If you're an exchange to offer
13:08
as many currencies as possible because they want you
13:11
transacting as much as possible. So for if you look, there's no
13:15
exchange that offers its scale Bitcoin only.
13:19
And so most companies have to transition out of Bitcoin only
13:23
into other currencies, if you look at a lot of custody
13:26
providers, almost all of them are transitioning.
13:30
If they ever were Bitcoin, only or transitioning, To
13:33
multi-currency because you can make more money, you can reach a
13:35
bigger audience. So I think, I think our our
13:40
mission is to continue to promote Bitcoin and and do it
13:44
for as long as we possibly can and always be a Bitcoin first
13:48
company because we believe that it is the most important thing
13:52
to educate people on. I would say, you know, for most
13:55
people if you are trying to build a Bitcoin only Company
13:59
Plate, ND Chason and play out, do you need to Addition to other
14:03
currencies there's there's mechanisms or models out there
14:08
like mining for instance where you hypothetically could.
14:12
You know, if you're focused on proof-of-work you could focus on
14:14
proof-of-work blockchains and as alternative currencies and
14:20
chains start to transition into proof of stake or proof of
14:23
history or whatever. They, you know, they're calling
14:25
it these days you know then then you could probably play out
14:32
scenarios where you can Serve Bitcoin, only users, or Bitcoin
14:35
companies, or Bitcoin the progress of Bitcoin.
14:40
Yeah, it's actually interesting. You said that I'm pretty close
14:44
with the Luxor guys, and they've been getting pretty big.
14:50
I think, you know, that after that pull in chebarkul, I think
14:56
they, you know, they're they're more than 6% of the total
15:00
Bitcoin, hash rate at this point, which is absolutely
15:03
massive the Yen. And when they started in, In
15:09
order to get a leg into the into the Bitcoin.
15:13
You know, the hashtag is so competitive they actually
15:16
started which should coins and they were they were offering
15:20
they were offering, you know, mining mining pools for the shit
15:24
coins and then when they reached a sufficient, sufficient amount
15:27
of volume, then they eventually pivoted because they're like,
15:31
okay, you know, their shit coins, like this is stupid and
15:34
then they went to bitcoin fully. Is that what you're suggesting?
15:40
Yes. You know, a lot of companies
15:41
have to bootstrap and they have to get you know the like
15:45
profitable or or start making money.
15:48
You know, every every team is different.
15:50
Every person's different of what it takes to get there.
15:54
You know, it's a, you know, for some people it's like an ethical
15:58
ethical debate. Is it good to mine altcoins or
16:01
shit coins? If it means the greater good of
16:05
Bitcoin, I, you know, I, I personally take that camp of
16:08
like, you know, if it means That you know, that we can
16:11
decentralize the mining pool and, and build better
16:16
infrastructure. And if, you know, I believe in a
16:20
free market first and foremost, you know, I think people are
16:23
going to go get the currencies that they want trade them, mine
16:28
them, whatever. Anyway and the best currency is
16:31
going to win with or without, you know, whatever they're
16:35
doing. And so I think, I mean, just
16:37
looking at their there. Action so far.
16:40
I mean, I think it you could safe to say that it was probably
16:43
worth it for them to launch in that way.
16:46
And, you know, figure it out as almost like a hawk to start
16:50
making money. So not a bad thing and I'm sure
16:52
that's a contrarian take too many, many hardcore bitcoiners
16:56
out there, but I think it's, I think whatever it takes to
16:59
actually, you know, get build better mining infrastructure.
17:04
This is probably for the best in the long term.
17:07
So let's talk about because that's one of the pushbacks that
17:11
you're automatically going to get, right?
17:13
Is a lot of the, you know, the Maxis and I'm on that boat as
17:17
well. They're always going to say
17:18
stuff like, yeah. But what about the moral hazard?
17:21
What about the, you know, the principles of even though, you
17:25
know, this coin is worthless, is it ethical to use said coin to
17:31
prop yourself up enough in order for you to be a viable business
17:37
in Bitcoin? Is that Is that?
17:41
How do you feel about that? Is that is that, is that okay,
17:44
in your eyes? I think it is.
17:47
I mean, if you look at the companies that have have
17:50
realistically driven Bitcoin adoption where they is it, a lot
17:55
of the Bitcoin, Maxis hate them like they're if you removed
17:59
coinbase from the world or Genesis, or, you know, a lot of
18:03
a lot of exchanges, we would not be where we're at today with
18:07
with Bitcoin. So I think that, you know, a lot
18:11
of Of a lot of Bitcoin Maxis fail to realize the the
18:15
economics of building a any company and what you need to do
18:19
to to actually make money in this world.
18:23
So the the realistic business model for most of these
18:28
companies is you need users. You need people to buy
18:31
cryptocurrencies and it comes down to what are these companies
18:35
doing once they've made money to educate their users?
18:38
Now what we know what I do think is good crew.
18:41
There's and good pressure that Bitcoin Maxie's, Bitcoin,
18:48
rationalist, put pressure on is once these companies have made
18:52
money by the means, in which they, you know, they have done
18:56
to compete. What do they do with that?
18:59
Are they donating to bitcoin core?
19:02
Do they are, they promoting more shit coins to are, they
19:05
promoting Bitcoin development and an adoption and So that's
19:11
where I think that's what I think is important is like go
19:14
make money, you know, go B. Go push forward with with
19:19
Bitcoin adoption and do what you have to do to do that, but give
19:23
back when the time is right to do so.
19:26
So I'm actually you know I'm in the camp that a lot of these
19:28
exchanges that have done this have mostly been net, good.
19:32
I think it's very tough to look at, you know, the whole space
19:36
and not see that, you know, there's very few companies that
19:40
are out there that are able to have Luxury of offering Bitcoin
19:43
only products and a lot of those already make billions of dollars
19:48
in other sectors and then start to offer it.
19:50
So, if you look at the Block, the block already has like a
19:52
profitable business on the terminal side.
19:55
Hold on. Hold on.
19:56
I'm gonna push back and push back a little bit.
19:58
But what about Swan, for example, right?
20:00
So on is a huge fan, love Swan. They, I think they're proving
20:05
that you could build a very profitable Bitcoin exchange
20:08
selling Bitcoin, only. Right, because my So in and I
20:12
know I come from the from the Maxi camp.
20:14
This is simply Bitcoin. After all, it is that even
20:20
though you're because think about it, if you have the
20:23
smarts, if you have the resources in order to build up
20:26
an exchange right to build up a Bitcoin company, wouldn't you
20:30
could make the argument that you built it on blood money, right?
20:35
There must be. And I think swan has proven that
20:38
where you can build a profitable Bitcoin without Barring any shit
20:42
coins. So SWA, I love, Corey love what
20:48
they're doing. I love that.
20:49
They've stayed Bitcoin only and you know, I've had several
20:52
conversations over the years about about that with with them.
20:57
It's if you look at Swan and comparison to any of the major
21:00
exchanges, they are a drop in the bucket and they're tiny in
21:03
comparison. The that doesn't, that does not
21:07
a knock on them or anything that they are building.
21:11
And what they're, what they're doing.
21:14
I think that, you know, I believe in a free market, I
21:18
would rather have the conversation if you can't go
21:21
acquire a new user. The so let's just say, like,
21:23
remove all exchanges. Let's just like play out the
21:26
scenario. I'm an average average everyday
21:30
consumer, and I hear about some shit coin that I want to go
21:34
learn about if I go in through that route.
21:37
And I, you know, I don't even have the ability to go to Swan.
21:40
Let's just say I'm Learning about like Cosmos or something
21:44
like that. Not to say it's a coin, but it's
21:46
another chain. So I hear about Cosmos and I
21:49
hear from a friend and that's like the first thing that like
21:51
gets me excited about going into into getting into quote unquote
21:55
crypto. And so, that's how a lot of
21:57
people are going to join crypto. Whether you like it or not, or
22:00
whether I like it or not. And so I go and I type in.
22:04
Hey, where do I go find Cosmos? Where do I go by Cosmos?
22:07
Most likely, you know, through SEO, I'm going to go find Cosmos
22:12
to go buy it on coinbase or cracking or Genesis are gemini
22:19
or somewhere to go. By every time I go in that that
22:23
company is going to make significant more money, they're
22:26
going to be able to advertise more, they're going to be able
22:28
to promote things more. I would rather capture that that
22:32
customer and then promote Bitcoin to them because they
22:36
were already going to go by possess.
22:37
But that, but that's the problem.
22:38
That's the problem though, Alex? Right?
22:40
Is that, for example, Company, like coinbase.
22:44
They're not incentivized to promote Bitcoin after the fact,
22:48
right, like coinbase in a way has been hostile towards
22:52
Bitcoin, right? I think it was, it was crack it.
22:55
Like, for example, none of these exchanges have added lightning
22:59
Network functionality because it would defeat the purpose of
23:03
Schilling, a lot of the shit coins that they have, right?
23:06
So I think that and, and I totally, I totally understand
23:11
your point. Point where crack in Gemini
23:13
coinbase, they're getting the vast majority of the volume, but
23:18
does that justify selling coins of which they know are
23:23
worthless? And they're selling those coins
23:26
on the mere fact of trying to capture those transaction fees
23:31
and they know that and they and the part that I have trouble
23:35
with the most is that they advertise them as being
23:39
equivalent to Bitcoin, right? And I think that's kind of like
23:44
the, you know, the the issue, the, the moral conundrum that I
23:48
have. But I don't think you guys do
23:51
that at Lolly. I think you guys are Bitcoin
23:52
only. No.
23:54
Absolutely. I'm just so like that the debate
23:57
I think is is like bitcoiners largely would consider
24:02
themselves free market maximalist.
24:04
Right. Is that is that fair?
24:06
Absolutely. Yeah and so if you believe in a
24:09
free market like wouldn't wouldn't like the free market is
24:14
going to capture as much of the demand that there possibly is.
24:18
And so in a free market, if people are coming in and going
24:23
to get whatever they want then it would make the most sense to
24:26
give as many like. Reaches many people go get 100
24:30
million users and then put that money into good.
24:32
Those people are already going to join these companies.
24:35
I would rather companies that have that are aligned with
24:39
Bitcoin. So if you, if you looked at, you
24:41
know, what was what coinbase, you know, they get they get a
24:43
lot of shit and I'm not, I'm not saying that they're perfect by
24:46
any means, but they've also done a lot of good for the space and
24:49
they've given probably more Bitcoin out to people than
24:53
almost Every company we're even talking about way more than us
24:56
way more than Swan, way more than anybody.
24:59
And so if you're talking about like how do you how did most
25:02
people get their first Bitcoin more than likely?
25:04
It was coinbase. It was because they did the
25:06
model they're doing right now. Now it's unpopular opinion
25:09
because people want to know, you know, shit on a lot of these
25:12
companies, because they're offering these like long tails,
25:15
but if you look at like, historically, the reason why
25:18
they started going long tail, it was because of the free market
25:21
Finance. If historically Finance, Started
25:23
offering every coin, every single possible coin.
25:26
That was that that was what was released, they would.
25:29
It was always like the centralized exchanges had to
25:32
race, you know, against the free market.
25:34
If you look at like, you know, Swap and Sushi Swap and
25:36
everything, they were pulling the free-market apart.
25:39
They were saying, you know, you can't compete with us if you're
25:42
if you're a centralized company unless you offer every shit coin
25:45
in the world. And so there is a moral debate.
25:49
There is an ethical debate of that.
25:50
How far do you go down that pop? I'm just, I'm just Like, I see
25:54
it if they want to compete with the inevitable, which is like,
25:58
you know, swaps and Sushi swaps. And these decentralized exchange
26:01
has, literally offering every single thing on ERC, 20 in
26:04
every, Every Chain, that's the inevitable future.
26:07
That's what that's what the free market is.
26:09
And most people aren't willing to say that's what's actually
26:13
happening. And so my point is that, if that
26:16
is the inevitable, which I believe it is, I would rather
26:21
say, hey, let's get a line. Around.
26:23
What's the most important narrative to go bring these
26:26
people that are joining? You know, that this crypto
26:29
conversation that are joining this economy and say, hey,
26:34
Bitcoin is the best of all of these and we need companies that
26:37
support that. If you look at what I mean, I
26:39
don't want it to get into big. Like, you know, I'm defending
26:41
coinbase or whatever like that. They've done plenty of bad but I
26:44
mean, they were just defending privacy and funded all of the
26:49
the Privacy litigation. I think that was that was just
26:52
happening and Extremely good for no matter which way you're
26:55
looking at it. So they've done a ton of good
26:57
for the space that I don't think they get a lot of credit for
27:00
that with the their tornado cash.
27:04
Like if privacy gets destroyed we're going to be a pretty bad
27:08
spot. No matter what chain you, you
27:10
endorse and what you believe in. Yeah, I just think, you know, I
27:16
am really morally conflicted because so there's really two,
27:21
you know, find the free market. I, you know, I think being a
27:25
Libertarian at heart, I don't think it should be you know in.
27:30
I don't think you should be the government's interest for
27:32
anybody to get to dictate what someone can buy and what someone
27:36
can't buy if someone wants to buy said, should coin, so be it.
27:40
But I do think that you know, for example that I've given my
27:44
example would simply, you know, I can't speak for Swan but I'll
27:48
give my example would simply we would be able to monetize this
27:52
show and grow. Hundred percent like thousands
27:56
of percent faster and we'd be making a lot more money from
28:00
advertisers. If we decided to, you know,
28:03
start sponsoring or taking sponsorship, money from shit
28:06
coin companies, right? But is that really going to push
28:12
the Paradigm? And I think what the Paradigm is
28:15
fundamentally at least to me is the separation of money and
28:18
state and all these shit coins. You know, they add all this
28:23
functionality. Reality.
28:23
They you know, they add you know whether it's the yield and the
28:27
bullshit and this and that and that but in order to achieve all
28:30
of that they sacrifice to centralization in the process,
28:33
right? And if it's not to centralize it
28:35
can't withstand the state, right?
28:37
And I think that what bitcoiners fundamentally want at heart is
28:41
the separation of money and say and I think that we know on a
28:45
subconscious level and on a deeper level that only Bitcoin
28:49
could push that, right? So it just acting in my own
28:53
interest in my own in just following my own incentives.
28:56
If I take that short-term money now down the road, I'm hurting
29:04
myself. Because what I really want is to
29:07
separate money from State and only pushing a Bitcoin standard
29:11
is going to achieve that. So, perhaps I can make the
29:15
argument that it's sacrificing, the short-term profits now for
29:20
the benefits later. And I think I can't speak for
29:24
Swan, but at least that's the logic of Simply, right?
29:28
It's like, look if, if I chilled, you know, aetherium if
29:32
I Shield Never shit. Shit coin number 255, right?
29:38
I know that that's not going to I know that that's not going to
29:41
help you Achieve Financial sovereignty.
29:43
I know that that's not going to help you, you know, down the
29:47
road right? I would be Schilling that only
29:50
out of my self-interest for benefit to no one else, right?
29:53
I know for example if I you know, promote Bitcoin, if I
29:57
advocate for Bitcoin, I know that that not only is it going
30:01
to help me it's going to help that other person the incentives
30:04
aligned its Mutual to mutually beneficial.
30:07
You know it's a Really beneficial relationship in that
30:11
sense, right? And I think with the shit coins.
30:14
Yeah, man. Of course, you know, the free
30:16
market wants that, but don't you think there's a, there's a
30:19
little bit of pain of personal responsibility that falls onto
30:25
the entrepreneurs, that decided to launch.
30:28
These companies to be, at least transparent on what it is.
30:33
They're selling to their customer base and I think
30:36
coinbase does a horrible job at doing In that.
30:39
And I think that if coinbase was at least a little bit more
30:42
honorable and saying listen we these are shit coins, they're
30:45
not equivalent to bitcoin if you want to gamble.
30:48
So be it. But this is Bitcoin.
30:51
The Bitcoins, the only thing that is going to successfully
30:54
separate money from State, Bitcoin is the only thing that
30:57
is truly decentralized. Therefore, it's the only thing
31:00
that can give you true Financial sovereignty.
31:03
What, why can't? Why can't both be true?
31:06
Because it's just it's like basically like economics of
31:11
running a company. So like in these in these two
31:13
scenarios if I'm if I'm a Bitcoin only company and I can
31:17
make, you know, let's just say like 10 million a year or
31:20
something like that and I can run it profitably and that's and
31:22
you know, hire 20 people and run that company.
31:25
Let's just say that's a scenario, not naming any names
31:29
and I can go run a company that is an exchange that's offering
31:32
you know all these these alternative currencies and I can
31:35
go Mets. Five billion a year and, you
31:39
know, like put four billion or 3 billion or whatever and
31:44
advertising. If I'm running that the, the
31:47
first company and I can spend three million on Advertising
31:51
versus a company. That's, that's offering that can
31:54
spend 3 billion on Advertising. It's almost the same amount of
31:59
like, effort and energy, and everything, and on a 5 10, 15,
32:04
20 year, time frame. Mmmmm, no matter which way you
32:06
look at it. The the company that is that his
32:10
spending more to go acquire more users and bringing on more into
32:14
cryptos, going to win all day. So I would rather that that
32:19
ladder company, the one that is a pro Bitcoin company and I
32:23
think there's a lot that can be done to pressure on those
32:27
companies to be more Pro Bitcoin, to donate more to into
32:31
into Bitcoin core into programs around.
32:35
Bitcoin education. I mean, I think, I think one of
32:38
the best examples that, you know, I'm specifically speaking
32:41
towards is the block Square. I mean, they took a lot of money
32:45
that they were making. They could make so much more
32:47
money if they offered etherium and ripple Cosmos, whatever.
32:53
And they've been able to be Bitcoin only, I think it's a
32:56
very rare example. I think it's maybe the only
32:58
example of a company that, you know, generates billions of
33:01
dollars in already has an existing business and is able to
33:05
To use a Bitcoin only as part of their play.
33:09
I just don't think that that's the common case.
33:13
And I don't think that we are going to reach a high per
33:16
Bitcoin ization future without the exchanges being able to
33:19
Market and use those three billion four million by billion
33:23
dollars of marketing dollars to go to attract that these next
33:26
wave of users. So I just think I'm not I'm
33:31
really not like arguing for time.
33:32
We're just saying, what is what's happening?
33:34
And what's inevitable It's with or without me you any podcast
33:39
and he company happening, that's just what's happening out there
33:42
because that's where it companies are making money.
33:44
The companies that are making the most money in the world, are
33:46
they in the crypto? Space are exchanges are buying
33:48
and selling and the demand for alternative.
33:51
Currencies is incredibly high with or without whatever we're
33:56
doing. So more and more people are
33:58
going to join this, you know, this this crypto Revolution and
34:01
I would rather these companies join and have some sort of
34:05
basis. So an example, it's kind of
34:06
like, prove my point is like like open soon Open Sea launched
34:12
as a as a theory, mm nft exchange and they have had an
34:18
incredible amount of adoption. They've on-boarded a, an amazing
34:22
amount of people into the crypto space Bitcoin has had in ft's
34:29
for, they were the first Advent of tease people want in FTS, no
34:32
matter which way you look at it, fighting it.
34:35
Fighting arts fighting culture. And so if Open Sea had had
34:41
Bitcoin, and if he's if the Bitcoin Community had built, you
34:44
know, these layers in order to serve something.
34:47
That was inevitable, I think Bitcoin adoption would be way
34:50
further along instead of saying that you know Bitcoin has to
34:55
have to buy just Bitcoin. You can't buy layers on top.
34:58
You can't build on top of Bitcoin.
35:00
You can't you know innovate on top of it.
35:02
I think that was sort of the wrong path of if we look like
35:05
culture. Ali with Bitcoin and the
35:07
direction that that Bitcoin Maxis chose versus.
35:10
I think a route that a lot of Bitcoin rationalist would have
35:13
said like hey like peppe's on bitcoin that would that's
35:17
incredible. No narrative.
35:18
And now it's sort of picking back up of saying wait pick
35:21
winners had enough tease forever and fighting culture, doesn't
35:25
really make sense in a lot of ways, people should be able to
35:27
do what they want to do, in the free market is going to do,
35:29
whatever it's going to do with or without Bitcoin.
35:33
And so I think that's more of a Realistic narrative and I think
35:36
it's very important for us to practice practice, practice
35:40
rationalism over fundamentalism. Yeah.
35:45
I mean, I think that the V, where the, the issue that I'm
35:50
having is fine, you offer. It's like look like if you know,
35:56
the drug dealer on the street offering, you know, whatever
36:00
narcotic he wants to do, he knows that that's going to do
36:03
harm. But he's just trying to make a
36:06
buck, it's the same thing. Like, I don't see it, I don't
36:10
see a difference in it and and specifically aetherium and and
36:14
xrp. And a lot of these coins, right?
36:17
They're using a lot of the money that they've raised to to launch
36:22
significant and you could even say successful social attacks on
36:27
Bitcoins, proof of work and Bitcoins.
36:29
Proof of work is the only thing that basically keeps Bitcoin
36:32
uncorruptible, right? So I mean, Aren't isn't, it
36:37
isn't this just propelling or giving ammunition to people that
36:43
they're in by following their own incentives?
36:47
They don't care if Bitcoin dies, they don't care, they would
36:52
rather just enrich themselves, but if Bitcoin dies and I don't
36:55
think it will, right? Then we don't have the Paradigm
36:59
Shift, right? We don't have the separation of
37:02
money and state. We don't live in a world where
37:06
the little guy that, you know, sells whatever on the street
37:09
corner could have the ability to save and earn in a money that
37:13
can't be easily confiscated and can't be debased, right?
37:16
And I think that if we placate, you know, these people that pose
37:21
themselves as alternatives to bitcoin, I think what you're
37:25
doing is that you're feeding people to attack Bitcoin and I
37:29
think, eventually and I think we're already starting to see
37:31
this. You're seeing an alliance
37:33
between the Trying to remain relevant trying to continue to
37:39
having that Monopoly on the creation and issuance of money
37:42
and the second largest cryptocurrency which is
37:46
aetherium. Like aetherium is going out
37:48
there and pitching these people. Hey you could build the next
37:51
Central Bank. Digital currency on aetherium.
37:54
Right? So I mean like it's kind of I
37:56
guess it's the way that you're looking at it.
37:58
Like for me, the most important thing for me is the separation
38:01
of money and state like look at what Central Banking look at.
38:05
What? The ability for the government
38:07
to just create money out of thin air, look at what that's done to
38:10
humanity over the last hundred years, the endless Wars, like
38:14
the countless catastrophes of that.
38:18
Couldn't you make an argument and perhaps maybe it's not a
38:21
capitalistic argument. Maybe it's not a free market
38:24
argument. Maybe it's an idealistic
38:26
argument. Couldn't you make that?
38:28
Couldn't you say that, perhaps, maybe this is something bigger
38:31
than ourselves, and perhaps maybe making a little bit of
38:37
making a little bit less money, but freeing mankind is a price
38:42
worth paying? Yeah, I am fine with that, I
38:47
just We played out the last 13 years, we would be we wouldn't
38:54
even be a fraction of the where we're at right now with Bitcoin
38:56
adoption. So I'm just being like, like,
38:59
hyper-rational and realistic of like, what has gotten Bitcoin
39:04
adoption where it's at, is, is exchanges making it easy for
39:08
people to buy crypto? Buy Bitcoin if we had had
39:11
Bitcoin, if coinbase have been Bitcoin only, if everyone had
39:15
been Bitcoin only like I I like the idea.
39:17
Like I mean how Many, how many people have have, you talked to
39:20
that have been, that started with etherium started with, you
39:24
know, some shit coin or all coin or whatever and then and then
39:28
found the light and was like, oh my God, what was I doing?
39:30
I'm now a Bitcoin ER I'd rather have them enter into something
39:35
and and then convert over because they see that Bitcoin is
39:39
the is the right path and is the most decentralized is the
39:42
separation of money and state. But you need that captive
39:46
audience, you need someone to come in.
39:48
The space and so, one of the biggest reasons people come into
39:52
the space. If we're being again, rational
39:54
and realistic is to make money and they come in and there's a
39:58
lot of people don't are not like you and I that are, you know,
40:01
ideologically looking at this and being like I care about
40:05
decentralized money, that doesn't need any governing body.
40:10
So you and I and I'm sure most of the people listening here are
40:14
in a very different camp where we are looking for decentralized
40:17
money. Whereas a lot of people are just
40:19
looking to come in and make a quick Buck, make a good
40:22
investment and join. You know, some alternative
40:25
currency that has you know crazy high upside or crazy high yield
40:28
and so that again free-market that person is going to join
40:32
that whether we like it or not and so I would rather that
40:37
person join a company that has Bitcoin friendly and Bitcoin
40:40
first and then it not exist at all because I just don't think
40:45
that a lot of people, I think we need Accelerate the adoption.
40:50
Otherwise the state's going to have like the state has the
40:53
biggest ability to shut down Bitcoin in a big way.
40:57
So we need to increase adoption at at the fastest rate possible,
41:01
and the more that we decentralize more people that
41:04
have Bitcoin the harder it is to stop.
41:08
And the faster we do that the more Bitcoin we get in more
41:11
people's hands, the better. And so I don't think that if you
41:15
played back, you know every path the The coins that are, you
41:19
know, the, the should Corners that are that are launching
41:21
these, these currencies that are scams, a lot of people are going
41:24
to jail and a lot of the the people that are buying it it's
41:28
going to zero and so like, yeah, I think people will be rewarded
41:33
for learning, you know, what are the principles?
41:37
That make a currency strong? And I think that people will be
41:41
rewarded over a long enough time frame, into a Bitcoin future,
41:46
and the best currency will win over over time.
41:48
No matter what exchanges offer or endorse or anything.
41:52
And if Bitcoin is subject, if Bitcoin can be destructed, it
41:56
will be destructed with or without you know, their their
41:59
efforts. Right?
42:00
Like if Bitcoin really is as great as we think it is, it
42:03
doesn't need. It doesn't need any any of this.
42:06
It is arguably just needs more people to hold it and more
42:09
people to believe in it and that three billion dollars I
42:12
mentioned before, if that's going to getting more people to
42:14
believe in it, I'd rather have that three billion dollars going
42:17
to it then. The not and we're we'd be moving
42:20
too slow in a world of Bitcoin only companies that are
42:24
marketing. Now, that all said, I think we
42:26
that going back to the additional layer of the free
42:29
market, we need Swan, we need Lolly.
42:31
We need these Bitcoin only companies to continue to fight
42:34
into to preach for for Bitcoin as much as possible.
42:39
And I think that there is a scenario where, where, you know,
42:43
they build up this trust and they do gain credibility because
42:46
they've stayed Bitcoin only. So I I think it's again great.
42:50
What swans doing in great. What?
42:53
What? We've done to be Bitcoin only,
42:55
but I'm just saying, like, like it's really hard to be Bitcoin.
42:58
Only kind of to your earlier question about, you know,
43:00
Founders that are looking out there like you have to build a
43:02
business, you have to compete. I'm a fierce competitor.
43:07
It's very, very fucking hard to go.
43:09
Build a company where you're competing against other
43:12
companies that are willing to go into into offering alternative
43:15
currencies, like a lot of why we want to be.
43:18
Been able to like beat these companies that these like,
43:21
copycats that have emerged, they've launched it coins, that
43:23
have no purpose on this on this Earth and a lot of the Shook
43:26
Ones have gone to 0. So yeah, we've offered the best
43:29
currency in the entire world back and we've taught these
43:32
people. We've been rewarded for a lot of
43:34
companies. It's very, very difficult to do
43:37
that. Yeah, man, it's interesting and
43:41
I really like that perspective, right?
43:43
Which is this is going to happen.
43:44
Anyways, let the free market do its thing.
43:48
And if we all believe what, you know what, we all believe about
43:53
Bitcoin, then Bitcoins going to win at the end.
43:58
I think, I think there's a place for, you know, the scammers the
44:03
shit coin companies that are going to do their thing.
44:05
And I think that but I do, I do really fundamentally believe in
44:09
my heart, that it's necessary for Bitcoin, only companies to
44:13
exist, right? Because at least they, they show
44:16
that, hey, look, you could build A business only on bitcoin and
44:21
not scamming people. I think at the end of the day.
44:23
But anyways, I wanted to Pivot to something else that I put
44:27
into and I really appreciate your input on that.
44:29
I think that was a great conversation.
44:32
I wanted to Pivot to what it here.
44:36
Let me pull this up. Give me one second.
44:38
Yeah, what it would take, What It Takes right to 2B and 2B and
44:47
what it takes. Is to be an entrepreneur in the
44:51
Bitcoin space. If you, if you were to talk to
44:56
yourself, 10 years ago, you said likes, you should have read this
45:02
book. You should have, you should have
45:05
talked to these people. You should have gone to school
45:07
for this. You should have learned how to
45:10
code anything, what would you have told yourself?
45:16
The great question. I you know I got into Bitcoin in
45:19
2013 and I almost pivoted my last company into being a
45:25
Bitcoin company. And so I would have said like I
45:30
don't know if it would have worked to be honest because of
45:32
the timing that that it was in 13 other than if we had just put
45:37
Bitcoin on the balance sheet and rode that wave would have been a
45:41
different, a different kind of company, more of a micro
45:44
strategy. I play, but I think that if I
45:49
think the things that have made me successful, thus far, and
45:54
things that I think would have made me more successful.
45:57
I would, I mean, I think everyone needs to be like,
45:59
technologically literate and do their own research.
46:02
So I think like learning to code is a great thing that everyone
46:08
needs to note. Not like, literally code, but
46:12
you need to be deadly with it. You need to be able to be You
46:14
need to understand like what's actually happening in it.
46:17
How are you going to read it? What is it?
46:19
What is this shit going? Was not how are you two really
46:22
do understand like potential layer twos or side chains that
46:25
are built on top of Bitcoin? I think that think that's a huge
46:29
piece of the future and really it seems like it's going to be a
46:32
part of the curriculum for future Generations.
46:35
Is everyone's going to have to learn how some form how to code
46:38
because it's going to give you the ability to know what is real
46:42
and what isn't I would Like learning how to learn is a big
46:46
thing too. It's maybe may seem obvious but
46:49
one of my surprising things is like, most people just never
46:51
learn how to learn. And as soon as they leave school
46:54
they forget or they just don't, they don't, they can't learn
46:56
anymore, they just want to cut off at like you know if 18 if
46:59
they didn't go to college and 22 if they do go to college.
47:02
And so many people are just like force-fed this information at
47:05
their professors or teachers give them.
47:08
And I think my my biggest asset is I am like fiercely curious.
47:14
Constantly reading I'm constantly learning and I
47:17
wouldn't have learned about Bitcoin and continue to learn
47:19
about Bitcoin. If I didn't understand the
47:22
mental models of how to learn and how to look at everything, I
47:26
learned with economics and realize, wait, that wasn't real,
47:29
that wasn't that wasn't completely accurate and because
47:32
I knew how to learn, I was able to, you know, to read the
47:35
Bitcoin standard and be like, oh this is this is more in line
47:38
with my my thoughts on behavioral psychology and
47:43
behavioral economics. Then the Keynesian path.
47:46
I think that, you know, I learned in many people learned
47:48
in in University. So, I would say like, yeah, like
47:54
learning how to learn is probably like one of the biggest
47:55
things is always stay curious and be able to do your own
47:58
research is incredibly important and then also, you know, know
48:02
something about how to code and and how to diligence companies
48:08
because it ultimately helps you how to learn and what to look
48:11
for. Could you survive in this?
48:14
Is space. Without being a coder could do,
48:17
could you find a career in Bitcoin without being a coder?
48:23
I think so. I think it's just a matter of
48:25
how, how much value do you want to add to the ecosystem?
48:29
And, and I mean, there's a lot of things you could do.
48:33
But I mean really, everything has involves code at this point,
48:37
but I mean, you could get into Hardware, it still requires the
48:41
code of, you're really being honest with yourself, but, you
48:43
know, getting into Hardware engineering if you're if you're
48:47
interested in something like mining getting into like
48:51
learning about. Energy, green energy, I think is
48:54
going to be like, you know, the future there.
48:56
I know that there's probably some debate there from the
48:59
hardcore bitcoiners out there, but I'm happy to go deeper
49:04
there. But I think if you want to get
49:07
into mining, if you want to, like, you could go through the
49:10
route of like, what's the power of money?
49:13
It's kind of not too dissimilar from what we just talked about
49:19
which is it all becomes driving. Or who can, who can actually
49:22
find that the cheapest energy. And a lot of that is someone who
49:26
can find alternative energy. That is the cheapest.
49:29
And, and on a long enough time frame, the cheapest, most
49:32
renewable energy is going to be that that is probably
49:36
alternative energy that our Renewables is most likely.
49:41
Going to be the cheapest form of energy on a long enough time
49:44
frame, almost, no matter which way you look at it in Most
49:49
states what type of Renewables Though because Hydro find you
49:53
can make that argument. That's already true today but
49:57
solar and wind. How could you say that?
50:01
Well, on a long enough time frame technology should improve
50:04
their and I'm not saying that it's there yet by any means.
50:06
And I think that's where, you know, I think people would
50:09
debate but the the to debate Innovation and to say that
50:12
solar, is it going to get better?
50:13
Wind, is it going to get better? Is it's just it's I mean, I'm
50:17
sorry, it's just dumb. Like all technology is going to
50:20
advance and Tapped out. It's a I'm a free market Maxi
50:26
and I'm a human maximalist and I think that humans are going to
50:29
continue to innovate whether we like it or not for Bitcoin or
50:32
for not not. And there is enough pressure at
50:36
play for solar to get better. Already has of last 10 years and
50:39
it will continue to get better over the next 10 years and have
50:42
it next 20 years. And so, if you play out, you
50:44
know, scenarios where. Yeah.
50:46
Well, if we see it Kappa out and it's it has an inability to get
50:51
any better. Sir will see it and we'll know
50:53
that. Okay, maybe solar isn't isn't
50:54
the play, but right now the amount that it's Advanced over
50:57
the last 10, 20 years is absolutely incredible.
51:00
And so it's going to continue to advance at that rate.
51:05
Also, you know, keeping in mind that that most Bitcoin
51:08
hypothetically should be just excess energy and that's my
51:12
favorite case for all of Bitcoin, it should just everyone
51:14
should have a Bitcoin miner and if you have excess energy, you
51:18
turn it into Bitcoin, it shouldn't even be like in.
51:21
So, That to me, is alternative energy that a lot of people
51:24
don't want to talk about that's energy.
51:26
Like that would just go to waste no matter what form it is.
51:29
And so if you know all forms of energy, if it's Hydro, if it's
51:35
solar if its wind, whatever people are going to go make
51:38
whatever energy they want, even if it's government subsidized
51:41
and if in that in that timeframe, no matter what it is.
51:45
If there's excess energy, let's just say like 25% goes wasted.
51:50
I would rather a World where that 25% goes straight into
51:53
Bitcoin and that's a better world.
51:55
So I don't want to really fight any Innovation or any energy.
51:59
I want all energy to be able to access energy, and turn into
52:02
Bitcoin and that's going to make Bitcoin Stronger.
52:05
Yeah, no, definitely. I definitely think that because
52:09
Bitcoin is the energy, buyer of all Resort of Last Resort,
52:13
right? It now any so-called wasted
52:17
energy now has monetary value, it's just a matter of time
52:20
before. We figure out how to capture
52:23
that and turn it into SATs. I 100% agree with you there.
52:27
So one last thing that's been troubling, me.
52:31
Well, you know what, we use this for for the last part of the
52:33
podcast is then, of course, you know, my life, your life.
52:38
You know? We've we've made significant
52:40
bets on the continuation of the industry, the continuation of
52:46
Bitcoin. What worries me though in the
52:49
United States, specifically is The recent hostility from the US
52:55
Treasury from the White House. I don't know if you read the
52:59
piece by Nick Carter debunking the the the digital assets
53:07
framework by the White House. And then there was also the, the
53:10
crypto asset implications on climate and Nick, Carter and
53:15
ourselves. We pride ourselves on that, we
53:17
were two or three days before, Nick, Carter.
53:19
We're basically saying they're forcing The industry to adhere
53:22
to standards that no other industry is you know, as forced
53:27
to including gold mining by the way and that the same in the
53:31
same report they are making the case for Central Bank, digital
53:35
currencies. So what that tells me is that
53:37
clearly, you know that the end of the day, this is the
53:40
separation of money and state. They are preparing their there,
53:43
they're setting themselves up. And you mentioned tornado cash
53:46
earlier on in the show that was the first time in American
53:50
history. That the US Treasury sanctioned
53:53
open source software and not an individual, not a government
53:58
from your perspective, the CEO of a pretty successful Bitcoin
54:02
company. Bitcoin only company I might
54:05
add. What is your perspective on
54:08
this? Does it worry you are you
54:10
involved in any lobbying efforts and do you believe?
54:15
And I know I see a lot of bitcoiners saying oh, you know
54:20
there, Doing a tremendous amount, they're putting a
54:23
tremendous amount until lobbying and trying to change the mind of
54:27
DC. What is your perspective on this
54:30
Alex? Where is this going?
54:31
We're do you see this going in five years?
54:34
I see a hand to hand combat. Like, I don't think that they're
54:37
gonna just give over the keys and go gently into that good
54:40
night. What is your perspective on
54:42
this? Yeah, it's honestly, it's pretty
54:47
scary. I think, if you look at what is
54:51
happening, happening with the war on proof-of-work, you're
54:54
starting to see where where, what many members of government
54:58
want to happen. And a lot of them, they don't
55:00
actually know what's happening. But it's so, you know, it's part
55:07
of it is like, I think you just have to like this kind of goes
55:11
back to what we were talking about earlier.
55:12
It's like, who has the money to fight?
55:14
It's the coin basis of the world.
55:15
It's the Krakens of the world. It's the Gemini's of the world.
55:18
It's not these. We don't have enough money.
55:21
Do any damage in lobbying efforts at all.
55:25
And so, like, you know, we have to rely on these companies to
55:29
defend us bitcoiners and privacy and you know, the forms of
55:34
tornado cash in order to, to make sure that we don't get
55:39
destroyed. So, lobbying whether we like it
55:43
or not takes an absurd amount of money to make anything happen.
55:48
So, you know, we make an effort to donate to join Centre.
55:52
I do personally love the work that they're doing and they do a
55:57
lot of good for dispelling. The myths, around proof of work.
56:01
I try to find narratives that work to our favor and sort of
56:08
combat. I think the narratives that they
56:10
try to throw at us so you know, kind of going back to what I
56:14
just said, which is like energy is being wasted.
56:19
Why not use it for proof of work?
56:21
Mining and turning it into Bitcoin.
56:23
And so New York, had it, which is where I live and where a lot
56:27
of the company is based in a have this very, very aggressive
56:33
stance on proof of work. And we've been very adamant on,
56:36
really calling them out, that it was, it was idiotic for lack of
56:42
a better word of like their stance.
56:44
They were saying, like, you can't start a Bitcoin mining
56:47
company, essentially, and in in, and you had to have it like,
56:51
Like defined of where you're getting your energy and what it
56:54
was for. But they weren't they weren't
56:55
putting that on any other Energy company out there was just just
56:59
mining companies. And so the thing that it didn't
57:02
recognize is like, well can't we just turn every Energy company
57:06
into a Bitcoin company and and and give them a service and then
57:10
it kind of negates their entire argument and it says well why
57:13
would you want to waste energy? Like why not turn it into
57:16
something valuable and and and give more tax dollars like you
57:20
know, these Bitcoin? Many companies are paying taxes.
57:22
There are these are these are companies.
57:24
These are these are tax paying companies.
57:27
These are these are building Innovation, these are driving
57:31
the adoption of chips and and processors and and u.s. built
57:39
companies to know to drive Innovation.
57:42
So why would you not, why would you be anti Innovation?
57:46
Why would you be against, you know, your people in your state
57:50
making money? And so that's why I try to like
57:52
flip the argument and I think Bitcoin has been like hard to
57:57
fight against other really hasn't been anti Bitcoin.
58:00
He's been anti Securities has been his stance.
58:03
There's definitely stances that these they're taking and nuances
58:07
but we have some really good people that I think that like
58:09
Loomis that are fighting for Bitcoin and we just need to keep
58:12
electing officials. I'm if you can't tell, I'm very
58:16
much in the camp of like we're not going to beat them by biting
58:20
them directly. I think we Beat them by
58:22
infiltrating them and by playing their game and electing people
58:26
that are going to fight for Bitcoin.
58:29
And if we try to fight them head on and say, oh, you know, we're
58:32
going to go full like we don't want any part of it.
58:34
It's part of why. The libertarian party has has
58:37
really failed in many ways is because they don't want to play
58:41
the game. They don't want to be a part of
58:43
the the system. And so if you know why, why
58:46
Libertarians don't get elected is because they're like, well,
58:50
we don't want to be a part of government.
58:51
And and and so I think you can make a strong argument that
58:55
libertarian minded individuals and people who are going to
58:58
fight for Bitcoin, I would rather someone go run as a
59:01
Democrat that's going to be a bit coiner, then or a republican
59:05
for that matter. That is a big one of this
59:08
willing to fight for us. So, you know, I think, I think
59:11
Loomis is sort of showed, like, what we can do in in government
59:16
if we have someone fighting for us and bitcoiners should be
59:19
funding politicians that are running Under under any party.
59:24
As long as they're Bitcoin, her in-laws are going to fight for
59:25
us because we've seen how much good that does for us.
59:29
Yeah, 100%. No, I agree.
59:31
I think it Bitcoin really crosses party lines in that
59:37
sense. I but at the same time I think
59:43
that what it really does on a fundamental level is it just
59:46
exposes the tyrants on both sides, right.
59:50
The people that that believe that they fundamentally could
59:53
run your life better than you can run yours.
59:57
And I think that those are the people that Bitcoin will
1:00:00
continue to expose on the Republican side and on the
1:00:03
Democrat side. But unfortunately, I think that
1:00:06
there's very powerful people in, in our current American
1:00:10
government that there they'll be willing to say anything and
1:00:14
everything just to at least, slow the adoption Brad.
1:00:18
Sherman doesn't even hide it. Like he'll tell you exactly.
1:00:21
He doesn't like he's like because we don't control this
1:00:23
right you know Elizabeth Warren kind of you know Tides it a
1:00:26
little bit right? But yeah it's going to be a hell
1:00:29
of a fight and let's see where the cards fall.
1:00:34
But anyways it also were you know we're talking about you
1:00:39
know just like the u.s. right. Like I personally am in the camp
1:00:43
that Bitcoin doesn't need the u.s. to win.
1:00:47
I'm just I'm extremely pro-american.
1:00:51
And still think that we live in the greatest country in the
1:00:53
world, and I think that we were losing sight of that.
1:00:57
And we're losing that power day by day.
1:01:01
But if we want to retain it, we have to be.
1:01:05
We have to be, we have to be Pro free market.
1:01:06
We have to do, do, what makes America great and has over the
1:01:09
last 200 plus years, which, which is give people freedom and
1:01:15
Bitcoin is freedom money. And and in order for America to
1:01:19
stay great we have to Vpro Bitcoin and and be Pro
1:01:24
Innovation. And as soon as we lose that, I
1:01:27
think I think other countries are going to just take take
1:01:31
advantage of that and we're already starting to see that.
1:01:33
But if we if we stop American entrepreneurs, American Founders
1:01:39
from building Bitcoin companies and make it harder for us to
1:01:43
build in a to distribute Bitcoin to more people and to get people
1:01:47
off zero and and teach people a Bitcoin, it's going to it's
1:01:51
going to To make it so much harder.
1:01:52
We were already seeing, you know what, anti Bitcoin anti crypto
1:01:57
politicians are doing to make it so much harder.
1:02:00
All the Fudd that's happening is making it harder for companies
1:02:03
like ours to gain Mass adoption because people are scared of
1:02:07
crypto now if you are scared of Bitcoin.
1:02:10
And so yeah, the more we can do to I think elect you good
1:02:14
officials and knock it make America get left behind because
1:02:17
Bitcoin is going to be adopted by the masses.
1:02:19
It's just a matter of time. Unlike That time frame is but
1:02:23
you know it's the time chain that keeps on ticking like we've
1:02:26
got till 2140 and Bitcoins looking pretty good right now.
1:02:30
So I'm more bullish than ever with or without America.
1:02:34
I just I don't want America to get left behind so I'm going to
1:02:37
fight for America and I'm going to fight for Bitcoin and I think
1:02:42
that's I just want faster adoption and more people to
1:02:45
adopt it. So it's it's not really up to
1:02:48
America. Whether Bitcoin gets adopted,
1:02:50
it's Or like, do we want to protect our citizens and the
1:02:54
people here to adopt Bitcoin faster and better to give them
1:02:59
Freedom. Exactly.
1:03:00
It's like if America adheres to the principles of which it was
1:03:05
founded in, right? This Bitcoin is like the most
1:03:09
American Technology, your respects private property rights
1:03:13
respects the sovereignty but the big you know, the big million
1:03:18
sat question is Is the federal government going to step out of
1:03:22
the way and let it happen and unfortunately for them you know
1:03:25
the reality is that it will take a tremendous amount of power
1:03:29
away from them. And like I was saying earlier,
1:03:33
you know, a lot of the tyrants, a lot of the bureaucrats that
1:03:36
are They're in love with that power, its intoxicating to them.
1:03:43
I just don't think, I don't think they're gonna.
1:03:45
They're going to give up the keys so lightly but we shall see
1:03:48
Alex. I try really enjoyed this
1:03:51
conversation. I appreciate you joining us
1:03:54
today. Where where can people find out
1:03:57
more about you and more about Lolly?
1:04:01
Yeah, so it's all e.com. LOL, i.com, trial Ali on
1:04:06
Twitter. You know, we're Super Active.
1:04:08
Posting the The Bitcoin memes. Always and then yeah I would say
1:04:12
download Lolly. We just launched a new mobile
1:04:14
app. People are learning a ton of
1:04:15
Bitcoin going in store earning on their everyday purchases.
1:04:20
You can turn any debit or credit card into a Bitcoin awards card
1:04:24
which is dramatically increasing adoption, you could take your
1:04:28
bank card, your credit union card, whatever card you want,
1:04:30
turn into a Bitcoin card which we didn't talk about.
1:04:34
But that's holding a whole nother thing of Matt's Mass
1:04:36
adoption and then personally, Alex Bowman on Twitter.
1:04:42
DM is always open always down to talk Bitcoin and I appreciate
1:04:46
you having me on and asking all the great questions and the
1:04:49
healthy debate and everything. So I appreciate everything you
1:04:52
guys do for a Bitcoin adoption and educating the world and
1:04:56
getting getting people on there on the right path.
1:04:58
So thank you. Thank you for what you guys do.
1:05:00
I appreciate Alex Alex, I'm gonna put you back stage and
1:05:03
we're putting the outro guys. Thank you so much for joining us
1:05:06
on a simply another simply Bitcoin IRL We're going to
1:05:09
continue to do this. I think the next person we have
1:05:11
on the list is next Wednesday we have James lavish, he's coming
1:05:15
on the show. Should make a good conversation
1:05:18
anyways guys, we'll see you tomorrow at 12:15 p.m.
1:05:21
Eastern Standard Time for the standard show.
1:05:25
Alex, I'll see you in a bit.