Latest / Still Caring / 11: The Things We Don’t Talk About

Transcript

11: The Things We Don’t Talk About · Still Caring

0:03
Abby Fox (Intro): Welcome to the Still Caring Podcast,
0:05
presented by Stillwater Medical.
0:07
Joe Akin (Intro): Here, community is at the heart of healthcare.
0:09
Katon Lunsford (Intro): Through honest conversations and shared experiences
0:12
Abby Fox (Intro): we explore what it means to care for our health—
0:14
Joe Akin (Intro): and each other.
0:15
Katon Lunsford (Intro): Because better health takes a village
0:17
and you're part of ours.
0:19
Joe Akin (Host): Today's Still Caring episode is deeply personal.
0:22
Our guest, Elaine Zanotti, is someone many people in Stillwater know through
0:26
her leadership, her service, and her involvement in our community.
0:30
But today isn't about titles or accomplishments.
0:33
Today is about family.
0:35
It's about mental illness, addiction, shame, grief, suicide,
0:41
and the things families often carry silently behind closed doors.
0:46
For a long time, Elaine didn't talk publicly about her brother
0:51
or what her family experienced.
0:53
Today, she's choosing to share her story because she believes honesty
0:57
can help other people feel less alone.
1:00
Hello, I'm Joe Aiken, and I'm glad you're part of this conversation.
1:04
Elaine, thank you for being willing to have this deeply
1:07
personal conversation with us.
1:09
Alane Zannotti: You're welcome.
1:10
I'm honored to, to be able to tell my story.
1:13
Joe Akin (Host): So Elaine, as you said, this is your story.
1:16
So why don't you just start at the beginning and just tell us about
1:19
your family and growing up together?
1:21
Alane Zannotti: Sure.
1:23
Well, I was an only child, my first five years of life, so we were a
1:26
family of three, very close-knit.
1:28
I'm adopted.
1:29
I was adopted at seven days old.
1:31
my parents realized they weren't able to have children on their own.
1:34
So, first five years, only child.
1:36
And then, when I was five, my parents thought, "You know, we'd
1:39
like to have another, child as well."
1:41
And so they decided to go through the adoption process again.
1:45
And there was a little boy who had been in the foster system, his first three
1:49
years of life, so he was three years old.
1:50
And, they had some family visits, and he came and visited, and good
1:54
time, and they decided to adopt him.
1:57
And, I can remember being excited I was gonna get a, a little
2:00
brother, because I just, uh, was excited about that possibility
2:03
and, and, um, adding to the family.
2:05
But I remember Joe, the very first night he came to stay with us, his first
2:10
night home, and he just had not had any type of, boundary set or any type of
2:17
discipline, if you will, and it was time to go to bed, and he screamed as loud
2:22
as I'd ever even heard a child scream.
2:24
You would've thought he was being beaten.
2:26
He was just devastated that he had to go to bed when he didn't want to go to
2:29
bed, and it was just-- I think that was just-- I will always remember that night.
2:32
I'm, I'm gonna be 57 this year, and that night my parents were at a loss,
2:37
because I was a fairly easygoing child.
2:38
they hadn't had to deal with a child like this before.
2:40
And I think that-- I think all of a sudden my parents thought, "Okay, we may
2:45
have had a child that has had some," you know, first three years of life, we have
2:48
know nothing about what had happened.
2:49
He'd been foster home to foster home.
2:51
And so that kind of began our journey as a family to kind of
2:54
figure out, what to do next.
2:55
And so kind of fast-forward through the years and, growing up, as a
2:59
young child, my brother, um, just was a very, challenging child.
3:04
Um, he had not been potty trained.
3:06
had not had any type of, family life, and so very, disconnected, if you will.
3:11
I was a child who always wanted to be around my parents, just always wanted
3:14
to s- you know, be around family.
3:15
And then my brother was just someone who was very different.
3:18
We played together as, as little kids as you do.
3:20
You just, y-y- but we, just were very, very different children.
3:24
And I remember when he started school, it was, painstakingly for my parents
3:28
because he was, very, very smart.
3:31
He was a very smart child, but got bored easily, go- got in
3:33
trouble in school all the time.
3:35
challenged with that.
3:36
And then, he, just had many discipline problems and, even at
3:40
home, just didn't like to obey rules.
3:42
my poor parents were trying their best to, to raise us both the same way and, that
3:47
just couldn't happen because of, you know, they could just look at me and I was,
3:50
you know, I would behave, and my brother was like, "Pff, whatever," you know?
3:54
Do...
3:54
And so I think I began to realize that my family life was a little
3:57
bit different than my friends.
3:59
I just realized it was a very-- I don't wanna say it was an unstable family
4:03
life, but it was just, you just never...
4:05
I, my parents were very stressed.
4:07
They were young parents and I think just trying to navigate a
4:09
child that was very challenging.
4:11
And then you get into the teen years and, that begins the, the challenge of
4:16
those things that we all as teenagers and, and others deal with and, um, the
4:20
kind of the introduction of, of alcohol.
4:22
And my parents had found out when they did adopt Dan, my brother, that, he
4:26
was born a heroin-addicted baby And so you kind of compound that with the
4:30
challenges that he was having and as, they found out more and tried to go into
4:33
counseling and figure out some things to help him, that helped navigate a
4:37
little bit and answer some questions.
4:38
But he already had some kind of pre- predestined, conditions that
4:43
I think when he got to his teenage years, all of a sudden experimented
4:46
a little, little bit with drugs, but his main thing was alcohol.
4:49
And, once he started on that route, I would probably say he was
4:52
probably 11 or 12 when he started, it really became a, a challenge.
4:57
I can remember, my parents, went to an event in an evening and came home and
5:03
the truck was gone from the garage.
5:04
My dad's truck was gone from the garage, and my brother had tried to drive it
5:07
across Boomer Lake, after having drinks, and he was 14, I think, at the time.
5:12
So I think there just were some things that, that kept going
5:15
on with, with him that just, my parents were just kind of at a loss.
5:18
And the scary thing about, my brother when he drank is he was a very, very
5:23
nice person, when he wasn't drinking.
5:25
He just, challenged the, the boundaries.
5:28
But when he drank and got drunk, he was, personality changed 180.
5:33
he was mean, he was angry, he was hateful.
5:36
my brother never liked the fact that he was adopted.
5:38
He always felt abandoned, by his biological parents.
5:40
And so I think the alcohol brought that out in him.
5:43
And so I think it just magnified those things.
5:46
Um, was violent.
5:47
just had some, some cases of, violent tendencies.
5:49
And as it gets-- as he got older, it was harder to discipline him, right?
5:53
Because he was older.
5:55
And then you fast-forward to kind of getting through those teenage years,
5:57
and I just, I wanted to do everything I could to be the good child, right?
6:00
I saw my parents struggling.
6:02
I saw them trying to navigate what it was like dealing with a child who
6:05
challenged every ounce of in them.
6:08
So I, kind of stayed off the radar, if you will.
6:11
Um, I made sure I had good grades.
6:12
I made sure I didn't get in trouble.
6:14
I made sure I was doing things I was supposed to do.
6:16
I was fortunate that I had a great, high school group of friends, and
6:20
so, uh, we were really low-key, and that was really helpful for me.
6:25
yeah.
6:25
Mm-hmm.
6:28
Joe Akin (Host): situation, did you feel pressure to be perfect?
6:35
to be really, really good?
6:36
Because what it sounds to me like is y- your parents were very overloaded
6:43
and potentially overwhelmed with taking care of your brother, and you were
6:49
the, the, the good child, so to speak.
6:51
But along with that, y- you know, comes the pressure to be good.
6:55
Is, was that part of what influenced you, is just wanting to not put
7:01
more pressure on your parents?
7:02
Or is that, in your opinion, just that's just how you are?
7:06
Alane Zannotti: I
7:07
think that's just how I am.
7:08
I was always a child that never caused any waves anyway.
7:10
And so I, I think for me it wasn't the pressure that I had to be good.
7:14
It wasn't like I wanted to do all these things, but I decided not to
7:16
because I needed to be the good child.
7:18
I think it was more for me of a realization of I'm watching my parents
7:21
struggle, and so I'm gonna do everything I can to s- to keep things calm.
7:26
I was the calm one.
7:27
I, I tried to make sure that if they were upset about something with Dan at school,
7:30
then I was gonna try and say, "Well, this happened and this was a positive."
7:33
And so, So no, not, not the pressure to, to, to be good, but it's just that
7:37
pressure of just, wanting to give them some peace and knowing that, one of their
7:40
children was-- And then I think it, it combats you against your sibling, right?
7:44
Because they're seeing that, and I can remember Dan, you know, say,
7:47
"Oh, well, you're the good one.
7:48
You're the one that never gets in trouble.
7:49
I'm the one who's..."
7:50
And so that doesn't help our relationship because he's, frustrated
7:54
that I'm not, getting in trouble or doing the same things he is.
7:57
And so that became challenging for sure.
8:01
Joe Akin (Host): so what was it- like for you guys living in a household
8:04
where you never quite knew what version of your brother you were going to get?
8:10
Alane Zannotti: You know, I look back on that and I think, my goodness, I-- it
8:13
can either make or break a family, right?
8:15
And I think, for us, it didn't break our family.
8:18
However, I, I think of going to the Al-Anon meetings for alcohol, you know,
8:22
for, for, the drinking and trying to do counseling and, you know, I think
8:26
it helped us deal with it, but it takes a toll, and I don't think you realize
8:31
the toll until this time in our life.
8:33
our family, was not close in the sense of it wasn't, you know, you'd see a family
8:38
photo and I could see behind those smiles that it wasn't a happy photo, right?
8:42
We'd either try to get him to take a picture and he didn't want to, or
8:45
he had just, he had-- They had to bargain with him to take the photo.
8:48
It's just interesting how that all, how that all played out, for sure.
8:52
Joe Akin (Host): So along those lines, one thing that families often
8:56
don't talk about publicly is fear.
8:59
And a minute ago you mentioned that there were times that he would get violent.
9:03
Did, did you ever feel fear in your own household?
9:08
Alane Zannotti: You know, not so much in the teenage years.
9:10
I think probably as he got older, maybe 17, 18, when he kind of got out of, you
9:14
know, got in the older teen years, yes.
9:16
because he just, he got bigger and stronger, right?
9:19
And so I think that, and, and drank more, and so it definitely
9:22
became violent at that point.
9:24
I think it was more anxiousness because when he was a teenager and drinking, the
9:28
behavior patterns weren't necessarily super violent, but just, combative.
9:34
You know, he was gonna, he was gonna challenge them at
9:35
every single thing they said.
9:37
And, you know, as a child, at some point he would end up backing down just a
9:41
little bit, but, as a teenager he didn't.
9:43
So very anxious.
9:44
And you didn't know what was gonna set him off, So, not having a lot of people
9:48
over or-- I was grateful that there was two years of age difference between us
9:53
because we were in school together in elementary school, but then once you
9:56
got into middle school and junior high and high school, the only time we were
9:59
in the same school together was when I was a senior and he was a sophomore.
10:02
And so it was a relief for me that people didn't know necessarily
10:07
maybe that we were brother and sister or that I didn't have to...
10:09
And that's a really sad thing to think about too as I look back on life and
10:12
think, "Oh my goodness, I spent a lot of time trying not to make people
10:16
know that that was my brother, the one that was getting in trouble all
10:18
the time, and the one the cops could call by name because they knew him."
10:22
So Yeah,
10:23
Joe Akin (Host): Yeah, sorry to have interrupted
10:25
Alane Zannotti: not
10:25
Joe Akin (Host): flow.
10:26
Please keep
10:26
Alane Zannotti: at all.
10:27
Not at all.
10:28
It's, it's always interesting.
10:29
Every time I tell the story, I, I hear a different piece of it, and so it's,
10:32
it's, it's good for me to, to have this.
10:35
Dan got married and, the, woman he married, also, had addiction issues.
10:41
And so I think, that's not uncommon.
10:43
and, uh, they couldn't-- both couldn't hold down jobs.
10:46
And so I think my, my parents were trying to do what parents do and
10:50
help support them when they could, give them money when they could.
10:53
And then it became a point of, "Well, we're not gonna give you money, but
10:55
if you need to go to the grocery store, we'll help you go to the
10:57
grocery store and, and get food."
10:59
And so I was, I was grateful for that.
11:00
But Dan continued on that path of drinking a lot.
11:04
I mean, he he could drink a 24-pack of beer and be, be fine.
11:07
I mean, maybe a little tipsy, but it just was-- he was a very much a
11:10
functioning alcoholic by this point.
11:13
he did not finish high school.
11:14
he did drop out of high school.
11:15
I, I tell the story that, um, preparing for the ACT in high school,
11:20
I took the preparatory class and I had my sharpened pencils and I was
11:23
there early and refreshed and ready to take it and did not even make
11:26
the legal drinking age, on my ACT.
11:29
And my brother took it with a hangover and made a 32.
11:33
And so I think he was brilliant.
11:35
He was very, very smart.
11:36
I just think, growing up in the '70s and '80s, there just weren't a lot of
11:39
those, I mean, the gifted program or some of those things that some of these
11:44
children now have opportunities to do just didn't exist when we were growing up.
11:47
And so, anyway, my parents encouraged him to go to Meridian Technology
11:51
Center, as an adult, and I actually was working at Meridian Technology Center.
11:55
That was my first job after graduating from Oklahoma State University.
11:59
so I, encouraged him, "Come out to Meridian Technology Center and take
12:03
the construction trades program," because he loved construction.
12:06
he loved being outside.
12:07
He was never gonna be an office person ever.
12:10
And he excelled.
12:11
He excelled in that program, and won contests and was supposed
12:15
to go to state contests.
12:16
And I'll never forget the instructor calling me and saying, "Your
12:19
brother has not shown up to get on the bus to go to contest."
12:22
So, I went to his house, and sure enough, he had been on a drinking binge the
12:26
night before and couldn't make it up.
12:28
So let the teacher down, let his class down, and he did finish the
12:32
program, but it was, it was painful.
12:35
And I think probably because I worked at Meridian, there were probably
12:37
some allowances given that, that gave him some second chances that
12:40
maybe he wouldn't have had otherwise.
12:43
so he definitely got into the construction business and, and did
12:46
a lot of that around Stillwater.
12:47
Um, still struggled, continued to struggle.
12:50
We distanced ourselves at that point once he left Meridian.
12:53
I think at that point as an adult, I decided I, I can't do this.
12:56
This is too hard on me.
12:58
My parents didn't have that luxury, if you will, and I don't think they were
13:02
ready to yet, and so they continued to try and help him when they could.
13:06
and so I, I kind of stepped back a little bit and actually moved away
13:10
from Stillwater for about 10 years.
13:12
And during that time, he got really into, harder alcohol, harder liquor,
13:17
and ended up getting arrested.
13:19
I think bounced some checks and did some things and ended up doing, About 18
13:22
months in jail and, and sobered up because that's, you know, he, he had to do that.
13:27
And so, uh, moved back, and this is me, I'm kind of fast-forwarding,
13:30
but about in a 10-year period, moved back to Stillwater and, um, I think
13:34
he was trying his best to, to kinda get back on track, and I decided to
13:39
open up a wine bar, which was very interesting as, as he does construction.
13:43
He actually, did the construction in the wine bar to provide a room
13:47
and the backspace, um, that now exists at Zanotti's Wine Bar.
13:51
And he did it sober.
13:52
There was a period of time and, and I thought, "Well, maybe this is a chance.
13:55
Maybe this is an opportunity to, to do that."
13:57
And I just, I think the challenges in life and, the way he chose to make
14:03
decisions were just very different, and unfortunately, he fell off the
14:06
wagon and fell off big time and, had suicidal thoughts at that point.
14:11
just would call extremely drunk and would threaten my parents
14:15
and I that he was gonna kill himself and do that sort of thing.
14:17
More to my parents than, than to me.
14:20
So just watching my parents cycle through all this and was just, very interesting.
14:24
And at the time, I had a different last name, Zanotti, and his-- he was
14:27
still Johnson, so I still made it very deliberate to keep us very separate.
14:31
I was not letting people know he was my brother and, and doing that
14:35
sort of thing, which still kinda makes me sad to this, this point.
14:38
Um, but I think it's the reality when you're dealing with the situation, you
14:42
do try to distance yourself as much as you can when you've gone through so much.
14:46
probably 2019, 2018, 2019, he had an opportunity to go out of state and
14:51
do construction 'cause he was doing really, really well, and he did do that.
14:55
And there was a, a sense of relief, I think, for my parents and, and I,
14:59
that he was leaving, just because it kinda gave us a break a little
15:03
bit from, from some of the drama.
15:05
he still continued to drink a lot.
15:07
He'd call, and my parents would, talk to him.
15:09
But 2020 COVID happened, and my dad died unexpectedly, during that
15:14
timeframe, and that hit my brother hard.
15:16
my dad and my brother were close.
15:18
my mom was the person he'd call when he was drunk and angry and
15:22
needed to talk, but my dad was the one he'd call when he needed money
15:25
And, it's just interesting how that dynamic happened in our family.
15:29
so when my dad passed away, I think it hit him really hard.
15:32
And he, came back to-- We had a very small memorial service
15:36
'cause it was during COVID.
15:37
He went back to North Carolina and, got extremely inebriated and drunk and
15:42
picked a, picked a fight in a bar and got beaten so badly that he was in the ICU
15:47
in North Carolina for a couple months.
15:49
and of course, we couldn't go see him because it was COVID,
15:51
so weren't able to see him.
15:53
And he did come back to Stillwater, within a couple months after that,
15:57
after he had recovered as much as he could, and he was different.
16:00
I, I think, he had some brain damage, and I just think he had just the combination
16:05
of everything he'd done over the years, I think had caught up with him.
16:08
And I remember the nurse talking to my mom on the phone saying, "He is extremely
16:14
strong because he's going through withdrawals, and he is shaking so hard,
16:19
and we're trying to calm him down, and he, he is just, extremely, extremely strong."
16:24
he wasn't the same when he got back, and he, started showing up at Meridian,
16:28
um, when I was-- 'cause I was working back at Meridian Technology Center
16:30
at the time, and he, would show up, there drinking, and so we'd--
16:34
I'd have to get him off campus.
16:36
He'd show up at my mom's house at 2:00 AM in the morning,
16:38
drunk, pounding on the door.
16:40
and so our safety was a little bit of a concern at that point
16:42
because he just was so angry.
16:45
And, he finally, had one night too much to drink and was driving, I think,
16:49
to go see my mom, and, was stopped by the police and a police chase ins-
16:54
occurred, and he wrecked, some buildings in Stillwater and got arrested and,
17:00
and went into the Payne County Jail.
17:02
And for any family who's gone through this, my mom and I were relieved.
17:06
two reasons.
17:06
One is he had a safe place over his head, and he had three meals a day.
17:12
he wasn't gonna be able to hurt himself or others.
17:14
And the other was we had peace because he wasn't gonna show up, unexpectedly
17:18
anywhere where we were, because that's, that's what he was known to do.
17:21
And he did serve, I think it was almost-- It wasn't quite a year.
17:26
I think it was maybe 10 months, 11 months.
17:28
And when he got out, after that, uh, my mom and I were just, uh, uh...
17:33
we didn't know what to expect.
17:33
We didn't know what to do.
17:35
And he sent a picture to both of us, and the picture still haunts me.
17:39
I still have it on my phone.
17:41
Uh, there's a smile on his face, and he said, "I'm gonna get my life together."
17:45
But the look on his face there just-- There's something wasn't right.
17:50
And, I'll never forget, I woke up, October 21st, 2021 At like 3:30 in
17:56
the morning, and it was gonna storm.
17:58
And I remember thinking, "Okay, I'm gonna let the dogs out."
18:00
3:30 in the morning, let the dogs out.
18:02
And so I let the dogs out, and I was wide awake.
18:04
I couldn't figure out why.
18:05
And my mom called me at 4:15, and she said, "Um, I unfortunately need to tell
18:09
you that Dan died, about an hour ago.
18:11
We just-- We, Angie, his wife, just found him in the extra bedroom.
18:16
Um, he has died by suicide."
18:18
and it was very odd because both my mama, mom and I were up, we were
18:23
awake, and we were, we, you know.
18:25
And I, I'm not really a superstitious person, but it just is, uh, odd that
18:30
we were both up at the same time.
18:31
And once again, very, very sad.
18:35
but the relief of just it was over and maybe he found peace, right?
18:41
And maybe he's with my dad and they're, you know, able to, to, to
18:45
have the relationship that I think, you know, they both always wanted.
18:48
So, anyway, yeah.
18:50
Joe Akin (Host): A, a, a couple of questions about some of
18:53
what you just went through, but first about your, your brother.
18:57
Alane Zannotti: Mm-hmm.
18:57
Joe Akin (Host): What do you think people were never able to really
19:01
see in him because his issues kind of clouded their perception of him?
19:06
Alane Zannotti: Dan had a heart of gold.
19:09
Dan would've given you his last dollar.
19:11
He did.
19:11
would get money from us, and then if a friend needed it,
19:13
he'd give it to his friend.
19:14
I mean, Dan, had a heart of gold, and he had a faith.
19:18
it was interesting when he was in, jail, he wanted a Bible.
19:22
That's-- And he could quote the Bible.
19:23
He could-- I mean, he had a faith.
19:25
so it's funny how, not haha funny, but just interesting how, he had those
19:31
things and that were so much a part of him, yet such a angry and nasty and
19:36
hateful part of him also that I think probably was probably some mental health
19:40
and then just some things that, you know, life with him, how he started.
19:44
I think he just had some pre- predestined things that happened.
19:47
Joe Akin (Host): you'd mentioned it twice, once when he, he went to prison and then
19:51
the, the second time a- after he was gone, that there was a sense of relief.
19:58
And you and I had talked about this before because there are so many things that
20:02
you're relieved of, and you described some of them, y- and you think that they
20:08
have some peace, you have some peace.
20:10
along with that, was there a s- almost a sense of guilt on your
20:16
part because you felt that relief?
20:19
Alane Zannotti: you know, my mom and I to this day will still every once in
20:22
a while say, we do feel guilty because it's very rare that we say we miss him
20:27
because, I don't think we do in the sense that you miss, like I miss my dad
20:32
or I miss other people, because there was just such a rocky relationship.
20:36
So yes, there's a lot of guilt.
20:37
And then you think, "Well, could I have or would I have?"
20:40
But quite honestly, I can say my parents did absolutely
20:44
everything they possibly could.
20:46
And so I don't think there's any regrets or guilt that they didn't, didn't do that.
20:50
And, and to some degree, me as well.
20:53
But sure, I think there always will be, because I think anytime someone dies by
20:58
suicide, you think, "What, what could I have done to help, prevent that?"
21:01
Or, "What could I have..."
21:02
But then, you know, in our situation at the same time, we just think,
21:06
threatened it so many times.
21:07
I think, I think probably deep down, I think we both
21:10
knew that Dan wasn't gonna...
21:11
I mean, he died at the age of 50.
21:12
I, I think we both knew that he was not gonna live
21:16
a, a long, a long time,
21:18
so.
21:18
Joe Akin (Host): thank, you for, for talking about that, 'cause I know that's
21:22
an incredibly complex set of emotions, but I think it's so helpful for people
21:28
to hear that because so many times you, you do feel relief, but you don't wanna
21:33
tell anybody because you're going, "Oh, that, that just makes me bad."
21:37
And it doesn't make you bad, it just makes you human.
21:39
But so many families going through things like this, they're carrying around, you
21:44
know, these kinds of struggles and often become, experts at hiding the pain or
21:49
the embarrassment or anyth- any of that.
21:51
You, you felt like your family did that?
21:53
Alane Zannotti: my parents were such good role models.
21:55
I think that my parents were doing their best to deal with it.
21:58
And sure, I think to some degree they, they didn't want everyone to know.
22:01
I think I did more of that.
22:03
I think for me, yeah, I was trying to, create this facade that my
22:08
family was, you know, yeah, we had some challenges, but we're doing
22:10
okay and we're gonna be all right.
22:12
And it's just, I think for me, I was trying to kind of smooth that over and,
22:17
make it seem a little bit more normal.
22:18
To me, I wanted some normalcy.
22:20
and so I think I did more of that than my parents did.
22:23
Joe Akin (Host): Having never dealt with it, hopefully,
22:26
hopefully none of us ever will.
22:28
But what does...
22:31
I'm not sure I'm phrasing this right, but what, what does suicide do to
22:35
the people that are left behind?
22:38
Alane Zannotti: Yeah.
22:39
Yeah.
22:40
I think for my mom and I, in this situation, he, he hadn't
22:44
called that night before.
22:45
He hadn't, you know...
22:46
I think for us, if he had, called us in a drunken stupor saying, "I'm gonna
22:49
kill myself," or, "I'm going to..."
22:50
you know, like he always did, I think we would've been
22:53
better equipped to handle it.
22:55
I think we were still in a state of shock because that wasn't, I mean He wanted
22:59
to kind of get his life back on track.
23:01
He had sent us that photo, and so he just-- he seemed calm, and maybe
23:04
that was, that was the, that was the telltale sign that we missed.
23:08
but I think it's when you see the, the potential, I mean, Dan just had a
23:12
lot of potential and, I think for us, that's the sad part with, with suicides.
23:16
You don't have the chance to, try and encourage that or...
23:20
I mean, he purposely chose to end his life, and I can't imagine, I, I
23:23
can't imagine that thought process.
23:25
and so that part's hard.
23:28
Joe Akin (Host): So Elaine, do you, do you think that along with the addiction, there
23:32
were any mental health issues that were just making it that much more complicated
23:37
or that much more severe of a situation?
23:39
Alane Zannotti: I, think so.
23:40
I, I think, you know, I think Dan as a youth, I mean, I-- whether it was, based
23:45
on what happened when he was born, being a drug-addicted baby, if that caused
23:49
some, some issues with him to not, not bonding this first three years of life.
23:54
I mean, not a connection, just you know, could leave, leave the family for a couple
23:57
months and not, not interact at all.
23:59
Just not, not that connection.
24:00
So I think that that...
24:01
And then I think he had-- I do think he had some bipolar because even
24:05
before he started drinking, his mood swings could be just something else.
24:09
And then I just think the alcohol, magnified it even
24:12
more, when he had been drinking.
24:13
So yes, absolutely.
24:15
And then for sure, when he came home from after having that, the fight in
24:19
the bar that caused some, some brain injuries, for sure, without a doubt.
24:22
I think that, that probably magnified some things too with, with just some
24:26
mental health 'cause he just, he, didn't process things the same way.
24:30
wouldn't have a complete thought sometimes.
24:32
And so, yeah, I think-- And then just the way he dealt
24:34
with things was very different.
24:36
Joe Akin (Host): Yeah,
24:36
and then in today's world, e- especially with social media, people feel pressure
24:42
to present their lives as being perfect.
24:45
We don't tend to, you know, show our bad side on social media.
24:50
Why do you think authenticity matters so much to you now?
24:56
Alane Zannotti: I think because, oh my goodness, for, uh, you know,
24:59
growing up, I d- I wanted to-- And it wasn't I wanted to create a perfect
25:02
life, I just wanted it to seem normal and m- and whatever your normal is.
25:06
And I think social media has magnified this need your life to be perfect.
25:11
And I am very proud of how hard I've worked to, to do the things
25:15
I've done and accomplished.
25:16
and, I've had people say to me, "You don't know what it's like to
25:19
struggle," or, "You don't know..."
25:21
I mean, 'cause you, you know- Well, we don't, right?
25:23
We don't know everyone's story.
25:25
never make assumptions about things.
25:26
And so I really try to, on my social media, be very real and honest.
25:30
And, and if I have bad days, I have bad days, and I don't have
25:33
the perfect house, I don't have the perfect, you know, whatever.
25:36
But I, I think that, society right now is just under a lot of turmoil
25:41
and, and negativity and things going on that I think the one thing that
25:44
we think we can control is what we post about ourselves, right?
25:47
And that social media platform that we can create, we can be in charge of.
25:51
And so I think there is that pressure to have it be as perfect as possible
25:55
because sometimes life isn't, and so that's the one thing we can control.
26:00
Joe Akin (Host): So was there anything in particular that you can point to that,
26:04
that finally pushed you and gave you the, the courage, if you will, to use
26:09
your voice publicly about, you know, just getting the information out there, being
26:14
honest with people?
26:15
Alane Zannotti: Well, I think three years ago when, Becky Endicott
26:18
reached out to me and said, "Hey, Women for Wellness is, um, we're, we're
26:22
doing this thing about our story."
26:24
And we all have a story, and, the stories are important to share because
26:28
the more we tell our story, the more hope we have that someone else is
26:32
maybe going through something similar and needed to hear your words, or
26:34
you needed to have some affirmation that what you're feeling is okay.
26:37
And so that was really the first time I told the whole story, and I remember
26:41
my, my mom being in the audience and she just, said thank you 'cause she said,
26:45
you know, "I know it was, it was a..."
26:47
I think for her there's a lot of guilt as a parent knowing that there were
26:51
probably a lot of times when I didn't really have parents very much because they
26:55
were so busy, dealing with my brother.
26:57
And so I think for her, she-- it was good for her to kind of hear
27:00
that I'm, I've, I've done okay.
27:01
I'm, I'm, I'm okay.
27:02
There's not anger on my side or, or, I don't feel like I got, slighted or
27:07
that I didn't have, didn't have that.
27:10
So that was very important.
27:11
Yeah.
27:12
Joe Akin (Host): Well, and, and Elaine, you, you know this, or I, I hope you
27:15
do, but it, it really does take bravery for you to kinda step out from behind
27:20
the curtain and say, "Hey, this is who we are," and be that open and honest
27:24
about your life and your family.
27:27
A- and I know a lot of people appreciate that, and the, the
27:30
people that are listening, they're going to get something out of this.
27:34
But a lot of people are afraid to do that, and I, I think they may be
27:38
afraid because of possible rejection, or I'm not sure what it may be.
27:42
But have you found that your openness and honesty has created
27:49
connection instead of rejection?
27:51
Alane Zannotti: Absolutely.
27:52
I, I think maybe not so much connection, but I think a sense
27:57
of relief to let it out, right?
27:59
Because I think when you're going through the situation, you bottle it up
28:02
and it just becomes this thing inside your body that you just, uh, it's hard.
28:06
And so I think once you start telling it, it's kind of like little by
28:09
little, you get a sense of peace.
28:12
And then you're right, Joe, what happens then is that connection with
28:16
someone com- that comes up to you and says, "I'm dealing with the same
28:18
thing," or, "I'm dealing with something similar," or, "I felt the same way.
28:21
Thank you."
28:22
So that certainly is helpful too.
28:24
Yeah.
28:25
Joe Akin (Host): it's an amazing story, Elaine, so Elaine, we end
28:29
every segment with a challenge to care.
28:32
for those people listening, what's your challenge to care for
28:36
those who are quietly carrying the pain behind closed doors?
28:41
Alane Zannotti: You know, I would say if, if you're not ready to, to let
28:44
someone know, I mean, I would, I would encourage someone to try and find
28:46
someone, one person that you feel you can trust, you can tell the story to.
28:50
And if you're not ready yet, I would write it.
28:52
Uh, get-- Find some way to get it out of just being all inside you.
28:57
writing helps, um, having the conversation out loud just with yourself.
29:01
I know that there were times when, um, I would sit a- after I'd had
29:05
an interaction with my brother and just talk out loud by myself because
29:08
that just, you have to get it out.
29:10
I mean, keeping it bottled up inside of you just is not healthy.
29:13
and so, I think you've got to find the right avenue for, for you if you're
29:18
dealing with something like that.
29:19
But, that's kind of things that I would
29:20
say.
29:21
Joe Akin (Host): thank you for your, your honesty, your, your openness, and
29:25
really your, your bravery in sharing something that is so deeply personal.
29:29
And we all know that.
29:31
And I know this wasn't an easy conversation, but I truly believe
29:34
your willingness to speak openly is really going to help people.
29:39
And there are families listening that are carrying pain and shame and confusion and
29:46
grief or silence, very similar to what your family carried for all those years.
29:51
And because you're willing to tell your truth about your story,
29:54
they may feel a little less alone.
29:58
So sincerely, thank you.
30:02
before we close, if you or someone you love is struggling with
30:05
depression, e- emotional crisis, addiction, or thoughts of suicide,
30:10
never forget that help is available.
30:12
You can call or text 988.
30:14
That's the Suicide & Crisis, Lifeline, anytime, 24 hours a day.
30:19
And that number, again, is 988.
30:22
you don't have to carry it alone.
30:25
I'm Joe Aiken.
30:26
This is Elaine Zannati.
30:28
Thank you for being a part of this conversation, and
30:30
until next time, keep caring.