Latest / Messy Minded Mama / Episode 04 - Can We Talk About The Rage?

Transcript

Episode 04 - Can We Talk About The Rage? · Messy Minded Mama

0:12
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Messy Minded Mama, a podcast for moms who look managed but might feel a bit messy on the inside.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm Keith.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: And I'm Jen.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: And we are here creating space for real talk about motherhood, mental health, and the invisible load so many women carry.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: There are moments where I hear myself snap or yell or just feel this heat rise in my chest, and I think, who is this person?
0:37
SPEAKER_00: Because this isn't who I thought I would ever be as a mom.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: Same.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: I'm not an angry person.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: I never was.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: I never have been.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: But motherhood has unlocked a full-body, heart-racing, red-faced feeling that sometimes hits before I can even catch it.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: And what gets me is that it's not like the big things that cause this to come out.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: It's the little things.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: It's the 900th question that gets asked, or the, but why when I haven't even been able to answer the first question or the sticky hands touching me all the time in two minutes?
1:14
SPEAKER_01: Touch is not my love language.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: We could do a whole episode on that.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: So the sticky hands touching me all the time, or not having a transition between what I'm doing and what's needed, and it just being constant noise.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: And those are the moments where I don't show up or feel like myself.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: So today we're gonna talk about all of that.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk about the rage.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: Or as Kate has so perfectly coined it, the mobster.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: The mobster.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: And when we're talking about those mobster moments, we're really gonna do so today in a place without judgment and without shame because we've all been there.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: So when we say the word rage, we want to pause here for a minute because that word is scary.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: It is.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: That's a big feeling word.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: And for a lot of moms, even hearing the word rage can make us think that's not me or that's too extreme.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: I'm not like that.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: And for me, the word rage didn't really feel like the right word either.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: But I didn't know how else to describe the bubbly anger feelings that I was getting.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think when when I first hear rage, we think of like constant anger, losing control, or something that just doesn't fit with how we're seeing ourselves.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: So we don't want to identify with the word rage.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: But that's not even what we're talking about here.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: Most of the time, it's not even true rage.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: It's really just dysregulation.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I saw this quote, um, and we've talked about it actually before session, before session, before rushing, before recording today, even was just that anger is anxiety at its capacity, right?
3:00
SPEAKER_01: And when we're feeling this bubbly rage or anger, it's more of that nervous system that's saying, like, hey, something is not right here.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: I am having too much input, and it comes out as rage, and that matters because when we label it as rage, there tends to be a spiral afterwards, at least for me.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: I shame myself for it.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: I shame, yeah, I'm so hard on myself that that is how I showed up.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: And we tell ourselves, like, why am I reacting like this?
3:34
SPEAKER_01: Why can't I just calm down?
3:36
SPEAKER_01: Why does something so small feel so big?
3:40
SPEAKER_01: And as a therapist, I feel like I should be better at noticing and regulating it than what I am sometimes in real time, but it just comes out in so many ways.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I love that you're saying, like, why does something so small feel so big?
3:55
SPEAKER_00: I think it can be that what looks really small on the outside is usually coming from a lot of buildup on the inside.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: And for me, I say it's like these quiet little building blocks, right?
4:07
SPEAKER_00: Like there's all these little moments that are starting to build that then do become out maybe in this bigger way.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: So I think for a lot of moms, rage is showing up as snapping in those moments, it's showing up as raising your voice or just really feeling completely out of control when nothing quote unquote big has actually happened.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: But again, kind of all these small things are piled on top of each other.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: I love that you said the feeling out of control on the inside.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: I resonate with that so much where it's this reaction that I can't stop.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's the internal chaos that is really important for us to call out and be able to name.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: Our body doesn't know how to differentiate between the big stress and the small stress when it's already maxed out.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: And I think when we talk about rage, we're talking about getting to that maxed out point.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: So when we're talking about all these feelings of rage and our body differentiating and all of these pieces, I want to say this so clearly, and I want all of you who are listening to really hear me is that just because you feel this way, or you get the mster that starts to bubble up, or even if the mobster makes a full appearance, it doesn't mean you're an angry person at your core.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean you're failing, it doesn't mean you're a bad mom.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: It literally is your system being overloaded.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: It is a response to the amount of input that you're carrying, and it just comes out in a way that feels hard.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: And when you can really start to understand that in that way and really soak that up and take that in that you're not a bad mom, I think that's when something really important can shift for you.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: So instead of feeling like you need to ask what's wrong with me, it's really more about asking, what's too much for me right now?
6:00
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that capacity piece.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: So if rage is really about capacity, the next question isn't what's wrong with me or what's wrong with you, us, us.
6:13
SPEAKER_01: It's what's filling our cup so fast.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: And when I really started to pay attention, it wasn't one thing, it's layers of things, layers that build quietly until something small tips it over, and then the mobster comes out.
6:30
SPEAKER_01: So I know this looks a little different for you than it does for me.
6:33
SPEAKER_01: I've talked about my overstimulation.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: So, what does it look like for you as that capacity, those layers build, and it feels like it's too much?
6:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: So we probably all have this feeling of like we are the person, the go-to person in the house, and the moms are maybe more frequent than the dads or other person, whoever is in your house.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: So I, for me, it's like I hit capacity when I'm just sitting there and my kids are always saying, Mom, mom, mom, right?
7:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: My favorite is when they'll come up to me and ask me, mommy, do you know when daddy is going to start, you know, whatever project they're excited he's gonna be working on?
7:15
SPEAKER_00: And he's literally at the table sitting right next to me.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: That happened just to go to my this happened.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't even a question they could ask him about when they're gonna do something.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: Literally, yesterday they both got a snack that my husband handed them and walked to me to ask me to open the snack.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Didn't daddy get you that snack?
7:41
SPEAKER_01: And they said, Yeah.
7:41
SPEAKER_01: I said, So why didn't you ask daddy to open the snack?
7:45
SPEAKER_00: And they said, Because we want you to.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so much love and that want, but so much burnout.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: When we're talking about the capacity to be able to always be that person taking that on.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: So for me, in in those moments, I don't have rage most of the time come out in like that moment.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: I kind of laugh because it's comical to me.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: But those are what I'm talking about, these like quiet building blocks that start to stack up for me of just like I'm the go-to person again and again and again.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: And it it's quietly building more resentment at times towards my partner too.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: And he's not doing anything wrong, right?
8:24
SPEAKER_00: Like my husband does plenty in our house for our children, but in those moments, I'm still their go-to, and that can be so exhausting.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: So those little building blocks eventually for me will come out where I will yell or snap or in a very different, smaller moment sometimes, right?
8:42
SPEAKER_00: So those are the things that I think just wear me out when it comes to a capacity level.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: That I can't always just be the go-to person.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: It goes back to last week's episode, right?
8:51
SPEAKER_01: Where we talked about the mental load and all the things that you're carrying.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like you're noticing as that mental load keeps growing, or the asks of you, this or demands perhaps, um, depending on who's saying, the tiny, tiny human demands.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: Those pieces as they build then lead to that full cup, the capacity is full, and that's where the moby comes out.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:16
unknown: Yeah.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: And I think reflecting back on last week with mental loads, like these are all things that are working hand in hand.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: And until we really put our eyes and highlight all the things that are getting us to where we are and those monster moments, then it's really hard to shift it and shift that mindset.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: So this really is a you know, variety of things all coming together and that mental load just being one of them.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: And for you, Kate.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: So I know you've talked about overstimulation and how like that can show up for you, especially with like the mental load and carrying that.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: How does it show up for you when we're talking about monster and getting to that rage point?
9:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it shows up exactly what you said.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: The overstimulation, especially around transitions for me.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh, work to home is my hardest transition.
10:03
SPEAKER_01: And I think part of that is I do a lot of work from home.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: And so I'll be in my office, I'll be working, and they come home, and it is straight to my office.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: What is mom doing?
10:17
SPEAKER_01: And I haven't even had a chance to close my computer and go from work mode to mom mode.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: And the sticky fingers that I talked about earlier, right?
10:26
SPEAKER_01: They're touching me, they're touching everything on my desk, they're moving my papers, they're opening the drawers, they're gabbing at me about their day, which I want to hear and I want to be so present for.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: When you're ready for it.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: But when I'm ready, my brain is still stuck in that mom or that that mom mode.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: The work mode.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: My brain is still stuck in work mode.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: And I don't even get a breath to like close my laptop, maybe like change my clothes, have a minute to myself before I'm then engaging in mom mode where I'm answering questions and I'm helping get a snack or get ready for dinner, hearing about their day or reading their library book.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: But those are all things they ask of me as soon as they walk in the door.
11:09
SPEAKER_01: And I'll never forget there was a moment with my daughter, uh, my youngest daughter, where she walked into my office and I snapped.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: She was touching things, she was moving papers, papers I needed, and I snapped and I said, I've told you don't touch mommy's stuff, please.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: And her response to me, which was an epic gut punch, probably the worst one I've ever felt, was why do you get so mad when I come home?
11:36
SPEAKER_01: She's three.
11:38
SPEAKER_01: My three-year-old associated her coming home with me being mad, and she wasn't wrong from her perspective.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: I go from work to mad.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: But the truth is, I wasn't mad.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: They were home.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: I love when they're home.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: I love spending time with them.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: I was overwhelmed, I was overstimulated, and I was completely maxed out.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: But the spiral I went into of my own feelings and my emotions after that, I gut punched, doesn't even begin to cover it.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: I just was so upset with myself for her perceiving that that's how mom was.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: Even just hearing you tell the story, how long ago was this?
12:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh, that was probably six months ago, maybe.
12:25
SPEAKER_01: Not even.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: I can see it still sticking.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: I think you're right.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: That is something that when we want to show up in such a good way, positive way, nurturing way, loving way for our kids, and then we say one thing, right?
12:40
SPEAKER_00: That gets or we're act one way that then gets perceived totally different from them.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: Heartbreaking moments as a mom.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: So I just feel for you on what that did for you in those moments.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: And again, sitting here with you, what it still brings up for you, I'm sure.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my eyes.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we always joke, like my eyes are always watering, um, usually when we're laughing, but in this moment, like I can feel them starting to well because I want home to be the safe, the safe place where my kids can come home and their emotions can unravel.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: And for me, it's jumping from the deep end of a high stress job into a sensory hurricane.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: So it's these two worlds colliding and I just don't have a minute to breathe.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: And so when we're talking about that capacity and that those things stacking up, it's this high stress job that I have that stacks and stacks and stacks through the day, and then they come in and ask questions and touch and move and want normal kid things, they're not doing anything wrong, and that stacks and stacks and stacks, and then I just feel like it bursts, yeah, and I don't want that for my kids, and so that is where shame and guilt come in full force.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: And I think we need to keep this going on what does the shame after something like that?
13:56
SPEAKER_00: I have my own personal experiences with it.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: Uh, this is real stuff we're talking about that happens, can happen so quickly, can hit so hard, and the spiral can go on for a while, not even just for a night or a day.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: So I think we need to dive into that.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: What does that shame spiral look like?
14:18
SPEAKER_00: Do you want to share a little bit more about the story you're talking about?
14:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I even just like sitting here as as we talked about and like how it showed up for me, like the welling of my eyes, right?
14:32
SPEAKER_01: That night, full on sobbing, full on tears of just I'm a bad mom, right?
14:40
SPEAKER_01: That negative self-talk, that inner critic we've referred to before.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm a bad mom.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: Does she know that I really love her?
14:47
SPEAKER_01: I want them to be home.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: What am I doing wrong?
14:50
SPEAKER_01: Are other moms feeling this, right?
14:52
SPEAKER_01: This all these themes we've talked about through the episodes, that's where my inner critic went.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, I have to change something, I have to figure something out because I can't keep showing up like this.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: But how?
15:04
SPEAKER_01: But how, right?
15:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to navigate all of these responsibilities that I have.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like I'm at capacity, so then how do I take something else on to change one of these things?
15:16
SPEAKER_01: And the shame, just the constant beating myself up that night, that week, the next days.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: Even now, if I say something that I'm not proud of, or I show up in a way that was similar, one, she calls me out because that is her to a T, uh, you know, like this morning.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: She's like, Oh, you frustrated with me.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: And she says it's so cute.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: Frustrated, right?
15:39
SPEAKER_01: You're frustrated with me.
15:41
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, No, like, you know, mommy's not frustrated in this moment.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: I need you to put your socks on so we can go.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: Or sometimes if I am frustrated, just saying, like, yeah, mommy is frustrated, this is what happened.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: And not making it about her, but the situation.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: But even in those moments, it doesn't feel good.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: Sounds like it's one of those moments where it happens and then you're just kind of replaying it over and over in your head, right?
16:05
SPEAKER_00: Whether it's the she's frustrated or other stories that you're sharing.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that can just weigh on you more than it should.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: And I know for me too, like I have recent moments, probably more than I care to admit, but where I just get short with my five-year-old daughter Elle in particular.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: If she's fighting me on what to wear in the morning or getting ready, or if something like that is happening, then I am just snapping at her lately.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: And as soon as I yell, she immediately just gets tears in her eyes.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: Her little bottom lip quivers, and she you can tell like she's almost trying to hold it in and be brave, but then she just like starts crying, and it is it's the gut punch you're talking about.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: It's that immediate guilt and shame that hits me, and it's the repair right after, right?
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel like we've talked about repair a little bit in previous episodes.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: The repair opportunity is always there, but it doesn't remove that guilt and that shame that hits us right out of the gate.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: But in those moments, you know, I take her and say, I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to get frustrated, but like we really have to go.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: I really need you to pick an outfit and we're gonna be late to school, whatever the case might be.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: So her reaction then calms me down and allows me to take that step back, but it's still not the reaction, you know, that I'm wanting out of her, obviously.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: So all those moments can be so hard and again just weigh so heavily on us as moms.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think seeing their reaction is a really good indicator of how we showed up.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: And not that it's even like a hundred percent on par, right?
17:50
SPEAKER_01: Like I think about my seven-year-old, and sometimes like I will say something and she will have a big reaction because she is a kid that has big feelings, and sometimes I have to check myself a bit of what did I say and how did I say it.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's her perception of how I said or what I said, and sometimes it's truly because I didn't show up the way I wanted, and those are the moments repair has to happen either way, I think, but the moments that I didn't show up how I wanted, I not only have to repair with my kiddo, but I actually have to take the time to repair with myself, sure, which is hard to do and uncomfortable in so many ways.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: So we've talked about where the mobster comes from and how it can show up, and you just mentioned a little bit about kind of the repair that you need to do with yourself.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: So I think the next questions that we're probably wanting to go into is now what, right?
18:46
SPEAKER_00: After that happens, after the mobster is out and about, and we do the things that we're not necessarily proud of.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: We talk, we go into this little bit of a shame spiral.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: We want to do repair with our kids, and we need to with ourselves too.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: Like, how do we actually do that?
19:04
SPEAKER_00: So I think talking a little bit about some realistic tools we can take with us is what's worked for us, what do we want other people to have again?
19:14
SPEAKER_00: It kind of building this toolbox out for everybody of what can I do in those moments where I just snapped, I'm now replaying it in my head, I can't get out of this spiral of this isn't the mom that I want to be, and needing to give ourselves maybe a little bit of break there.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: So thinking about maybe just a couple things that I views that I guess have worked from time to time, and the the biggest one I probably lean on is just taking time away.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: So stepping away can be so powerful and impactful in those moments, and it's not a punishment for you, it's not a punishment for the kid.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: It's actually helping to regulate and then come back to do that repair in an even more healthy way.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: Just leaving the room for a minute can be so powerful as that reset that we all need.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: It really is.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: It's giving you space, it's giving them space, it's giving you a minute to like take that breath and modeling again for them that when we're frustrated, we can take a minute to ourselves to kind of gather ourselves before we have that explode moment.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious for you, going back to your story and just the repair that you talk about wanting to do with yourself.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: What do you do?
20:36
SPEAKER_00: What does that look like for you?
20:37
SPEAKER_01: That's a good question.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: It took me a while to repair with myself.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, first I I repaired with Sawyer, my my daughter, and um I really practice naming with them because I feel like if you've ever looked at the feelings wheel, yeah, right, like those inside feelings are the the ones we think of most often anger, sadness, happiness.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, but trying to just name some of those outer ones to practice and to model for them, I'm recognizing something within me.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: So even now I'll say, and I I said it earlier, like mommy's feeling frustrated that we're running late, which is actually my responsibility if we're running late, not theirs, but mommy's feeling frustrated that we're running late, or um, mommy is really sad about something that happened, or mommy's feeling a bit angry at blah blah blah, but never making it about them because I don't want them to internalize that.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: But about the situation.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: Mommy's frustrated because our shoes aren't on and we need to leave and we're running late rather than mommy's frustrated because you didn't blah blah blah.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: So I tried a name to help just bring it down a little bit.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: And then I apologize like I'm a big apologizer and owning for what I do.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: So I think about, you know, when Sawyer told me, like, why are you always mad when we come home?
22:07
SPEAKER_01: And it took me a minute.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: Catch my breath, stop the tears from coming a bit.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: And I said to her, Mommy isn't mad that you came home.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: Mommy is feeling overwhelmed, right?
22:19
SPEAKER_01: There's that naming.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: And I said, I'm so sorry that I snapped at you.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: Mommy was feeling so frustrated.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't come out the way I wanted.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: And I should have taken a breath first or I should have asked you for some space.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: And so I try to tell her that I'm sorry and what I should have done and that I love her, right?
22:39
SPEAKER_01: That's the repair with her.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: And then the repair with myself is giving myself that time, like you said, stepping away.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: For me, it's that transition time, right?
22:50
SPEAKER_01: Where they're coming in.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: So as soon as I hear the garage door open, I close my laptop and I just try to breathe for a few minutes until the chaos storm comes because it's gonna come.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: I can't stop the hurricane, right?
23:04
SPEAKER_01: But try to give myself the few minutes to gather myself before I have to go into mom mode.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: Or my husband has been really great about finding them an activity to do so I can wrap up and then I will join them upstairs.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: Rather than come joining me in my workspace, right?
23:22
SPEAKER_01: Because I think that was a big part of that trigger.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: So it's finding ways to have some separation, whether it's taking the space to name, but then be kind to myself and to let myself feel the shame and the guilt for a minute to acknowledge that I didn't show up the way I wanted, and I can be sad about that.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: And then be kind to myself.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: I I say this to my clients all the time.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: If you wouldn't say it to your best friend when they're struggling, don't say it to yourself.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: So I wouldn't tell my best friend, oh my god, what a terrible mom you are.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: That'd be awful.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: So bad.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:58
SPEAKER_00: We would never do that.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: We wouldn't have friends, yes.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: Instead.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: And it's not true.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: And it's not true.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: And so instead, I think about what I would tell my friend.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: I'd try to externalize it a bit.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: What would I tell my friend in that moment?
24:11
SPEAKER_01: And I would tell her, you showed up in a way that you weren't proud of.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: And that's normal.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: When you're feeling overstimulated and you're still a damn good mom.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: You say damn.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: I think so.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, I did.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: We just did.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: Let us know how you feel about that.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: But I think normalizing, externalized, giving yourself grace, talking to yourself in a kind way, those are the things that have helped me.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: And talking to my friend, my partner, whoever, about it when I feel it so that it doesn't bottle up.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: Because the bottling up is going to make that mobster come right back out because I never actually gave myself the space to feel the feels.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: So I mean, so much that you're talking about.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: So I'm hearing we're talking about like stepping away when you need a minute.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: I hear you're talking about mentally preparing yourself when you hear that garage door open, right?
25:03
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: Or having a Taylor take them somewhere else, and you leave your office when you're ready and like mentally in a place that feels good for you to join into the chaos, right?
25:12
SPEAKER_00: Naming it.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: I think one other thing that came to mind for me for naming it is not just naming it to our kids and then being kind to yourself, but naming what was happening in that moment.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: I am overstimulated.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: I am overwhelmed.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: Like knowing what that trigger is, because the more we know about what is causing the monster moments, right?
25:32
SPEAKER_00: The more we know what those triggers are, the more we can do what you're talking about of creating space for preparation, mentally being prepared to not let that happen, right?
25:42
SPEAKER_00: So naming emotions and like what's really going on for us, I think, can be a big thing as well.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: One other thing that I thought we could share is talking about lowering expectations.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: I was just thinking the same thing as you were talking about all of that of first of all, none of what we're sharing is so that you're never angry ever again, because that's not realistic.
26:04
SPEAKER_01: It's turning down the volume on the overstimulation, on the capacity, on the bubbly rage that we feel, but not expecting ourselves to show up perfect all the time, or to have the house be perfect all the time, I think can help.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: Or have our kids know exactly what to do right all the time, right?
26:26
SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes like just because we told them 10 times doesn't mean they're always gonna remember and do it right every time.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: So I think trying to lower expectations in that regard too, of how we how we expect our kids to show up sometimes.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: It's not just expectations for ourselves, but expectations for the tiny people who are navigating a big world.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: And not every moment's a teachable moment.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: I've heard that so many times, and I honestly don't like practice what I preach as much when it comes to the church.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: It's a struggle for you.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I do think trying to remember that not everything needs to be a teachable moment.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: So if something goes wrong in that moment, it doesn't have to be solved right then, or you you don't have to make it bigger than it needs to be.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: So I think that can be a good thing for myself if no one else to walk away with and remember that that's okay too.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: I think that's an important one too.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: And to ask for help.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
27:19
SPEAKER_01: And you feel that rage bubble come up, even though if it's not rage, right?
27:23
SPEAKER_01: If you feel that mobster start to bubble up, ask for a tap out.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: Right?
27:28
SPEAKER_01: We do that sometimes of like I need to step away for a minute, I'm tapping out.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I need help in this moment.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: So I think asking for help is just one of the last pieces that I think is so important.
27:40
SPEAKER_01: And asking for help before you hit your breaking point, not when you're at it.
27:45
SPEAKER_01: Recognize when the bubbling is starting and reach out for support then.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: And I really want to share some things I wish someone had either said to me early on or things that I even say to myself pretty regularly, because this is all stuff we practice, right?
28:03
SPEAKER_01: When we're talking about the things in here that have helped us or that we tell our clients, it's all about practice, it's not mastery.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: I don't have any of this mastered.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: Nope, me either.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: And so just remembering that nothing is wrong with you when you feel this way.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: Every single mom, every single parent has felt this at some point.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: So nothing is wrong with you.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: You are a good mom, no matter what.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: Hands down, you are a good mom if you keep showing up for your kids.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: That's the important part.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: And you're allowed to need help.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: You're allowed to feel your feelings.
28:40
SPEAKER_01: So those are the pieces that I think are just really important to remember as we keep going.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: And also, I'm just gonna ramble, but also I think sometimes rage isn't just about a hard day or a hard season.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: We've talked a lot about it's more about your nervous system.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: And we do have hard days, we do have hard seasons, but when we start to feel the momster make an appearance, that's actually about us needing more support.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: And I know in this space, oftentimes we're saying, your permission has been granted, like let's get you support if you need it.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: But in all seriousness today, as a therapist who works with new moms and expecting moms all the time, I do think it's really important to highlight postpartum feelings in all of this.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: So if you're out there and you are in the early days of postpartum or even the later days, whether it's your first child or your third, I think highlighting that rage can be a sign of other things that might be going on for you.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: So postpartum struggles don't always just look like crying all day.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they do show up as irritability or anger, even panic, or just this feeling like you're constantly on edge.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: Needing support does not mean that there is anything wrong with you.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: It means that you need some attention, right?
30:07
SPEAKER_00: That your system has potentially been just carrying far too much for far too long.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: And with that, I think it's really crucial just to say that support is out there and that support is accessible and can be a turning point for you if you're feeling like there's additional things maybe going on.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: And support can look like a lot of different ways.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: It can be a podcast, it can be a support system as in family and friends, or therapy.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: And so Jen has her own practice, if you're local here in Colorado, called Pure Mind Wellness.
30:40
SPEAKER_01: And if you're not local, we will drop some resources into the show notes so that you can explore some different avenues of support, whether it be therapy or mom groups, or some way for you to get the support that you might need in that moment.
30:58
unknown: Oh yeah.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: I forgot that I was supposed to do this show notes or the ending note, so I thought Jen was gonna do it, which is why I waited.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: So, as always, we end our session or episode, whichever you want to call it, with something for you to walk away with a quote or affirmation.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: So the one for this episode is even on the days rage shows up, your love is still there, and that love is what makes you a good mom.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: So keep remembering that you're a good mom no matter what.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: Next week, we will explore identity because mom is a title and it's a big part of who we are, but it doesn't account for all the things we are as a person.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: And so we're gonna uh we're gonna we're gonna talk about we will talk about it.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: We will talk about it.
31:45
SPEAKER_01: We will talk about how our identity has maybe changed parts of ourselves that we miss that we don't want to say out loud, and what part of our identity now we embrace.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: So we look forward to chatting it up next week.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next time.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being here with us today.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: If something in this episode resonated, we're really glad you listened.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: Messy minded or not, you're not alone in this, and you don't have to have it all figured out.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: If you'd like to stay connected, you can follow Messy Minded Mama wherever you listen to podcasts.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: And follow us on Instagram at messy.minded.mama.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: We'll be back to connect again soon.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being here.