Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Catherine Hoggle, accused of murdering two of her children: CHARGES DROPPED

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Catherine Hoggle, accused of murdering two of her children: CHARGES DROPPED · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece in the last hours. A
0:15
Speaker 1: Maryland woman suspected for years of murdering her two little
0:20
Speaker 1: children gets a major break in court. A judge, in
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Speaker 1: his wisdom has ruled Catherine Hoggle will not stand trial
0:34
Speaker 1: in the murders of two little children, Jacob and Sarah
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Speaker 1: disappear from Montgomery County just two and three years old,
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Speaker 1: and they have never been seen. They were caught on
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Speaker 1: surveillance camera at a Chick fil A just before they
0:51
Speaker 1: go missing with mommy well. Over the last eight years,
0:56
Speaker 1: Hoggle has insisted she's mentally incompetent to stand trial, although
1:02
Speaker 1: police say not incompetent at all, she simply refused to cooperate.
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Speaker 1: Prosecutors also say that she has faked the extent of
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Speaker 1: her mental illness. Can you believe this when someone can
1:17
Speaker 1: murder two children and then be treated as a patient
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Speaker 1: to be given more rights than the two children or
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Speaker 1: the survivors around them that they have affected. It's amazing
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Speaker 1: to me. And that's the sentiment of Sarah and Jacob's father,
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Speaker 1: Troy Turner after the judge's ruling. But what happened in
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Speaker 1: the case, Why are prosecutors and myself so convinced Hoggle
1:45
Speaker 1: murdered her children. It was just after eleven o'clock on
1:50
Speaker 1: a Friday night that police then get a call from
1:54
Speaker 1: a local residence in Germantown stating that Catherine hoggele the
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Speaker 1: children's mother, was spotted at Century Rock Boulevard. Immediately, police
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Speaker 1: go there and they find Catherine Hoggle, but her missing
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Speaker 1: children were nowhere with her. The children have been missing
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Speaker 1: and reported to be with their mom, Catherine Hoggle, but
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Speaker 1: then police find Catherine, where are Jacob and Sarah? Well,
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Speaker 1: many people gathered at a Chick fil A parking lot
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Speaker 1: on Saturday night were praying to find the little children
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Speaker 1: in the hopes that they would be found safe and sound.
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Speaker 1: As of right now, their disappearance still remains a mystery
2:43
Speaker 1: because the mom insists that overwhelmed with motherhood, she gave
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Speaker 1: the children away. She gave her children away and refuses
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Speaker 1: to tell police who she gave them to. Let's start
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Speaker 1: with what we know with me Cole Case Research Institute
3:06
Speaker 1: Director Cheryl McCollum, also with ME Crime Stories contributor Cheryl White.
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Speaker 1: First of you, Cheryl McCollum, So much focus ended up
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Speaker 1: on a local chick fil A in Maryland.
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Speaker 2: Why needs to because that's where she was last seen
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Speaker 2: on video.
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Speaker 1: The mother that's right, Catherine Hoggle was actually spotted instruveillance
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Speaker 1: video walking out of a Chick fil A very surreptitiously. Cheryl,
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Speaker 1: I mean, I have looked at this video over and over.
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Speaker 1: Some people actually describe it as sneaky. What about her
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Speaker 1: demeanor made it sneaky?
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Speaker 2: Well, I mean again, you know, you get dropped off,
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Speaker 2: you're going to go in, you say you just want
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Speaker 2: some of it to drink, and then you slip out
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Speaker 2: the side door and leave the children's father outside. I
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Speaker 2: mean it's very fish Oh.
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Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait, Cheryl, take it
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Speaker 1: from the beginning. Tell me about that visit to Chick
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Speaker 1: fil A and why it's so significant.
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Speaker 2: Well, she tells the child, the children's father, that she
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Speaker 2: has dropped them off at a new daycare and she
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Speaker 2: just wants to have a Chick fil A for something
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Speaker 2: to drink. He drives her there. She goes in the
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Speaker 2: front door, presumably to go to the counter, get a
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Speaker 2: coke and come back, but no, she slips out the
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Speaker 2: side door. He does not see or leaves. So after
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Speaker 2: a period of time, he goes into Chick fil A
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Speaker 2: to look for she's gone.
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Speaker 1: So this is what we know. The father is desperate
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Speaker 1: and is asking for help. He goes to the mom.
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Speaker 1: He goes to his wife, Catherine Honkell. She says, oh,
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Speaker 1: you know, I enrolled I didn't like the last place.
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Speaker 1: I enrolled them in a new daycare, and I took
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Speaker 1: them there, and well, let's go there. Now, can we
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Speaker 1: stop and get a drink at Chick fil A? So
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Speaker 1: he goes, sure, they stop at Chick fil A. And
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Speaker 1: I'm looking at the video right now, I can see
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Speaker 1: her in the video. She comes in, just like Cheryl
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Speaker 1: McCollum is telling me, kind of goes up to the
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Speaker 1: counter and then leaves out a side door. The husband's
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Speaker 1: just sitting outside. Now what we know is that the
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Speaker 1: father is the one who contacts police almost immediately and
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Speaker 1: reports the mother and the two children were missing. It's
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Speaker 1: interesting to me that she also, Cheryl McCollum and I'll
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Speaker 1: tell you later why this is so important, keeps her
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Speaker 1: face turned away from the surveillance video. I don't know
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Speaker 1: if you notice that or not, but okay, So she
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Speaker 1: walks out of the back door of Chick fil A,
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Speaker 1: and goes to a Germantown transit center. What do we
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Speaker 1: know happens after that? Cheryl White is with me Crime
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Speaker 1: Stories contributor.
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Speaker 3: What do we know, Cheryl, Well, all we know is
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Speaker 3: that there are two tiny children missing. They've never been found. Now,
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Speaker 3: one part of the story from the Chick fil A
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Speaker 3: Nancy is that they had been driving around. According to
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Speaker 3: the children's father, they had been he and Catherine, the
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Speaker 3: children's mother, had been driving around for a very long time.
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Speaker 3: She said, oh, I can't remember where this new daycare is.
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Speaker 3: That's when she said she needed something to drink, and
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Speaker 3: they stopped at the Chick fil A. So they'd been
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Speaker 3: driving around for a while, and the father said he
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Speaker 3: was starting to get more than a little annoyed and worried.
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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, he told her he was
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Speaker 1: driving her to the police stakes exactly unless she told
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Speaker 1: him where is the daycare? And she's like, gosh, you know,
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Speaker 1: I just signed him up. I can't remember where it is.
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Speaker 1: Just keep going, it's in here somewhere. Can I have
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Speaker 1: a coke? That's how that whole thing played out. But
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Speaker 1: then we've got a whole another story going on. Cheryl McCollum,
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Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Institute. Police say that that
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Speaker 1: Sunday night, the mom takes the children to her mother's
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Speaker 1: house in Clarksburg, that she was going to take her
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Speaker 1: son Jacob for pizza, but that when she got back
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Speaker 1: home three hours later to the mom's house, he wasn't
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Speaker 1: with her. She told the mom Jacob was at the
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Speaker 1: playmate's house. Right, So that's a whole nother story that
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Speaker 1: she's telling. So police say Jacob was not there and
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Speaker 1: he hasn't been seen since. So which of these stories
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Speaker 1: are true? This all goes down while the dad is
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Speaker 1: out working. He has an overnight job, Cheryl, like my
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Speaker 1: dad used to have, So he's at work when the
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Speaker 1: mom says this happened, So what about that story. We've
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Speaker 1: got the story that she dropped them at a new daycare,
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Speaker 1: and then we've got this story that police seemed to
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Speaker 1: be confirming that Hoggle took the two babies to her
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Speaker 1: mom's house in Clarksburg, says she's taken Jacob out for
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Speaker 1: a pizza, comes back without him about three hours later
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Speaker 1: and says, oh, we stayed at the friend's house. Okay,
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Speaker 1: what do we know about that? Which of these if
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Speaker 1: either are true.
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Speaker 2: Well, we don't know, and that's what's happening. You're having
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Speaker 2: to build a case on why. And that's why this
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Speaker 2: is so difficult. She's not telling the truth ever, So
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Speaker 2: you don't know where Jacob is, you don't know the friends,
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Speaker 2: you don't know whether.
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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, aren't police saying this. Aren't police stating
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Speaker 1: that she took the children to her mom's house. Is
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Speaker 1: that much true?
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Speaker 2: I believe that much is true, But I'm saying where
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Speaker 2: Jacob went from there, we don't know. We don't know
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Speaker 2: what friends, we don't know where she left him.
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Speaker 1: And then that's the next day on Monday, the dad's
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Speaker 1: been working on and he's like, where are the children?
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Speaker 1: And she says, oh, I put them in a new daycare.
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Speaker 1: So I mean, if she's telling any of the truth,
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Speaker 1: they did go for pizza, there was a playmate, and
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Speaker 1: she took them to daycare the next morning. I don't
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Speaker 1: think that's true. I don't think any of that's true.
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Speaker 2: But you know what well as I do. When you
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Speaker 2: have children and their fathers involved, y'all have long discussions
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Speaker 2: about daycare. That's not a quick switch. You investigate the daycare,
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Speaker 2: you make sure, it's a good place, the safe place,
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Speaker 2: and you damn well know where the place is when
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Speaker 2: you leave your child there.
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Speaker 1: Yes, I agree, That's why I don't think any of
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Speaker 1: this is true. Plus I'm going back to our last
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Speaker 1: known signing. I mean the whole daycare. That's a pile
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Speaker 1: of bs correct, all right, the BSA meter is like
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Speaker 1: shrieking in my head. So that never happened, just for
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Speaker 1: the reasons you just said. So I'm already back to
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Speaker 1: what I know to be true. Police are telling me
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Speaker 1: she was spotted at her mother's house with the children
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Speaker 1: the night before, or at least one of them, and
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Speaker 1: that would have been on Sunday night. The dad is
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Speaker 1: at work, he works nights. She says, she's taken in
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Speaker 1: for pizza. He's never seen alive again. So my timeline,
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Speaker 1: which is you know where I always start, Cheryl, is
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Speaker 1: Sunday night. That's they're not mentioning the little girl going,
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Speaker 1: but that is when in my mind, that's when the
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Speaker 1: children are either sold or given away or worse. Now,
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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, we know the next day, the dad is
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Speaker 1: at the Chick fil A and she leaves. What is
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Speaker 1: her story about giving her children away.
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Speaker 2: She's told everybody that she gave them away, but she
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Speaker 2: refused to say who she gave them to.
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Speaker 1: Cheryl White Crime story is contributor. She is insisting that
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Speaker 1: she gave the children away and quote they are safe,
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Speaker 1: but she refuses to reveal where they are. Why. What
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Speaker 1: reason do we speculate or what reason that she gives
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Speaker 1: she gave the two babies away.
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Speaker 3: Well, some are saying that there's trouble in the relationship
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Speaker 3: between the father and Catherine, the husband and wife. There
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Speaker 3: one thing we haven't talked about is the third child.
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Speaker 3: So my question is why the two younger children and
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Speaker 3: not the older child?
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Speaker 1: Right, there is a third child. That child is safe
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Speaker 1: and sound. We also have statements by the father. The
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Speaker 1: father tells police that while he's at work on Sunday afternoon,
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Speaker 1: Hoggle's own father dries them to the grandmother's house in Gaithersburg.
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Speaker 1: Hoggle then borrows her father's car, it's a great twenty
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Speaker 1: twelve Nissan Rogue, and tells her parents she's taking Jacob
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Speaker 1: to get pizza. So now I'm confirming again they're alive
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Speaker 1: and well. On Sunday, Sunday afternoon, the father and the
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Speaker 1: grandfather and the grandmother places them alive. Okay, so she
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Speaker 1: disappears in the dad's Nissan rogue. She returns three hours later,
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Speaker 1: without the son or without food. Claims she dropped the
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Speaker 1: baby the playmate's house and then came back went back
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Speaker 1: to her home with her daughter. That's the last time
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Speaker 1: either of them have been seen alive. Now, let me
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Speaker 1: ask you this, Cheryl McCollum, Where the children ever spotted
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Speaker 1: on any surveillance video at a pizza place or anywhere.
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Speaker 4: No.
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Speaker 1: Never tell me about the search that ensued Cheryl White.
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Speaker 3: Well, it was a four day search, and it was
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Speaker 3: one of those intensive searches. You have babies missing, and
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Speaker 3: so they just mobilized the entire community. It's police, it's family,
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Speaker 3: it's friends, it's total strangers that are searching everywhere, not
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Speaker 3: only for the children, but for Catherine as well, the
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Speaker 3: mother too. She's missing at this point as well.
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13:00
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13:05
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14:04
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Speaker 1: exclusively on Fox Nation. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, I
14:27
Speaker 1: am convinced, beyond a shadow of a doubt that Catherine
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Speaker 1: Hoggele murdered Sarah and Jacob, two little children just two
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Speaker 1: and three years old. They were last seen with her.
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Speaker 1: And then she comes up with all sorts of different
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Speaker 1: explanations about what happened to the children and begins a
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Speaker 1: quote mental illness stint. Here's the problem under Marylyn law
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Speaker 1: if Hoggle was not found competent by that that Thursday,
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Speaker 1: these statute of limitations of five years since the children
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Speaker 1: were murdered would be passed and the charges have to
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Speaker 1: be dropped. Hoggle was first found in competent back in
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Speaker 1: December twenty seventeen. An appeals court in their Ivory Tower
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Speaker 1: ruled that prosecutors had until December to try the case.
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Speaker 1: In the last days, a judge has dropped the charges.
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Speaker 1: Will we ever know the truth about what happened to
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Speaker 1: Sarah and Jacob? These are the facts we know now.
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Speaker 1: In a bizarre twist of the law, murder charges against
15:45
Speaker 1: a mom, Catherine Hoggele have been dropped. What a miscarriage
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Speaker 1: of justice? Why are prosecutors so convinced as am I
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Speaker 1: she murdered her children? Listen, I remember very well when
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Speaker 1: these two go missing, and for the life of me,
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Speaker 1: I could not understand why the mother, Catherine Hogele, would
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Speaker 1: not divulge where her children were. Now shrinks will tell
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Speaker 1: you that she was having trouble with her marriage and
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Speaker 1: was overwhelmed with three children. She says she gave them away,
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Speaker 1: gave them away and refuses to state where they went.
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Speaker 1: Why Why would she refuse to state? Could it be
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Speaker 1: because she hates her husband? So much she doesn't want
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Speaker 1: him to have them. Is she afraid she's going to
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Speaker 1: be indicted for neglect or giving away her children? Let's
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Speaker 1: take a careful look at her behavior. She is the
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Speaker 1: key to the location of these children. With me, Cheryl White,
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories contributor and Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold
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Speaker 1: Case Research Institute, Cheryl, let's look at her mommy's behavior
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Speaker 1: before and after the children's disappear.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Nancy pre and post behavior are going to be
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Speaker 2: key in zero and her mindset here. So how was
17:07
Speaker 2: she before the Sunday night Pete said her mother's the
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Speaker 2: things that she said, the things that she did. Was
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Speaker 2: her focus on Jacob? Was she angry at him? Was
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Speaker 2: she angry at their father? Something was going on that
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Speaker 2: now people will be able to pick up and say,
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Speaker 2: I remember this. The post behavior, her wondering around, saying
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Speaker 2: that she gave them away. She hasn't called the police,
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Speaker 2: she wasn't worried about them, she hasn't organized searches. All
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Speaker 2: of that's going to be imperative and I hate to
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Speaker 2: tell you it rings of Casey Anthony.
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Speaker 1: Oh, I was thinking the same thing. I didn't even
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Speaker 1: want to say the words taught Mom. How do you
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Speaker 1: compare Hoggle Catherine Hoggle to taught Mom Casey Anthony, who
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Speaker 1: murdered I believe murdered her little girl, Kelly. What about it,
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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum.
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Speaker 2: Well, here you are. You have her, you know, going
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Speaker 2: with her own parents, ride in the car, having some fun.
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Speaker 2: Let's go get pizza. That sounds like a great, normal,
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Speaker 2: ill evening. Next thing, you know, Oh, I gave them away.
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Speaker 1: Gave them away?
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Speaker 2: What?
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Speaker 1: Just like top Mom, Casey Anthony blames Dania Gonzalez the
18:18
Speaker 1: pretend nanny's so freaky about that?
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Speaker 2: Correct?
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Speaker 1: Is she had been she Top Mom had been looking
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Speaker 1: at an apartment uh on a Sawgrass on Sawgrass Road,
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Speaker 1: I believe it was. And police go to that apartment
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Speaker 1: to check out her story, and Dania Gonzalez had actually
18:37
Speaker 1: been there before Top Mom and signed in, signed in
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Speaker 1: that she was going to look at a model apartment.
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Speaker 1: So top Mom goes there, sees the name that's where
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Speaker 1: Zanaighta Gonzales came from. Correct, And it turned out to
18:52
Speaker 1: be a real person whose name was ruined by her
18:56
Speaker 1: connection to Top Mom Casey Anthony and the disappearance of
19:01
Speaker 1: she was forever connected.
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Speaker 2: To that, and it also wasted a whole lot of time.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, they had just signs an eye to Gonzalez, who
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Speaker 1: had never met Casey Anthony in her life. So here
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Speaker 1: we've got the same thing as Cheryl McCollums pointing out
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Speaker 1: a fabricated story and a refusal to divulge where the
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Speaker 1: children really are. Now, by this time, there was a search.
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Speaker 1: After Katherine Hoggle leaves the Chick fil A. There is
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Speaker 1: a man hunt or should I say a woman hunt
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Speaker 1: for Catherine Hoggle, who to this day, to this moment
19:36
Speaker 1: that you're hearing us, it's still the key to the case.
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Speaker 1: We still don't have the children. Take a listen to
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Speaker 1: the guy that fortuitously spots Katherine Hoggle. Listen.
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Speaker 5: It was a little after eleven fifteen in the evening.
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Speaker 6: Nicholas Stewart knew there was something unusual about the woman
19:58
Speaker 6: wondering about the parking lot of his germ Entailed complex
20:01
Speaker 6: as he went to take out the trash, and he
20:03
Speaker 6: couldn't put his finger on it at first.
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Speaker 7: I mean, I see her walking towards me. I didn't
20:07
Speaker 7: think anything. Maybe it was just a resident. I see
20:09
Speaker 7: her pacing back and forth.
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Speaker 6: But the woman's behavior grows more unusual, especially, he says,
20:14
Speaker 6: as she went into a breezeway in the complex. He says,
20:16
Speaker 6: she seemed lost and confused.
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Speaker 5: She went like this. She saw me.
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Speaker 7: She went like this, and then I turned around, and
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Speaker 7: then I see her come out and she looked like this,
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Speaker 7: and then walked here.
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Speaker 5: And then just stopped.
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Speaker 6: He decided to keep an eye on her, and they
20:32
Speaker 6: actually exchanged words or something.
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Speaker 7: Told me to just keep looking, and she asked me
20:35
Speaker 7: for the time. I said, I do not have the time.
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Speaker 7: My phone was actually dead at the time, and she said,
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Speaker 7: thank you, my phone's dead too.
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Speaker 6: Stuart says he ran to his apartment, looked at the
20:44
Speaker 6: flyer again and realized it was indeed Catherine Hoggell. The
20:47
Speaker 6: woman lasted a scene earlier in the week and caught
20:50
Speaker 6: on camera in surveillance footage.
20:52
Speaker 7: I actually watched one of the surveillance videos of her
20:54
Speaker 7: ten minutes before I spotted lady.
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Speaker 6: Stewart says he ran to a nearby police station to
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Speaker 6: get help, and they got to the scene Century Boulevard
21:01
Speaker 6: and Crystal Rock driving took Hoggle into custody.
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Speaker 1: So you know, Cheryl White, Cheryl McCollum is just dumb
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Speaker 1: luck really, because this guy had just looked at a
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Speaker 1: flyer that was posted I believe above hit the mailboxes
21:17
Speaker 1: at this apartment complex or this this location, this structure.
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Speaker 1: He sees the flyer of the two children and Catherine Hoggle.
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Speaker 1: Then he less than a minute passes. He sees Hoggle,
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Speaker 1: and he says, she was, you know, acting covertly, just
21:36
Speaker 1: like you said she did. And the chick fil a
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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. He goes up to her. They have a conversation.
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Speaker 1: He says, well, I can't use my phone. It's dead.
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Speaker 1: She goes, oh, mine's dead too. She seemed absolutely perfectly normal,
21:52
Speaker 1: Cheryl White, completely normal. One thing missing, make that too,
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Speaker 1: the children Cheryl White.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, the childrenners are still missing then and now, and
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Speaker 3: all she'll say is that they are safe and that
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Speaker 3: they're with someone else. And there was a chase, a
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Speaker 3: short chase before police could apprehend her, which I find
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Speaker 3: interesting that she ran.
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Speaker 1: Interesting, Cheryl McCollum. When your children are missing, as Cheryl
22:22
Speaker 1: White says, the guy immediately calls police the number on
22:26
Speaker 1: the flyer. Police show up. A chase ensues. If my
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Speaker 1: children are missing, I'm laying on the front steps of
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Speaker 1: the police station. I'm laying there screaming. She runs from police, Cheryl.
22:41
Speaker 1: She runs from police, and when they get her, she
22:45
Speaker 1: has snatched down one of the flyers that had been posted.
22:51
Speaker 1: She had taken it down so nobody could see it,
22:55
Speaker 1: and it was in her hand, Cheryl when cops get
22:59
Speaker 1: her after she runs.
23:01
Speaker 2: Cheryl wanted away. She doesn't want the children fail, she
23:05
Speaker 2: doesn't want to be captured herself, and again, holding that
23:09
Speaker 2: fire in her hands tells you she didn't want anybody
23:12
Speaker 2: else to find them either.
23:13
Speaker 1: This is where the search for the babies takes a
23:17
Speaker 1: very unusual turn. Of course, Hoggle is taken into custody
23:21
Speaker 1: and questioned about the location and for children. Take a
23:25
Speaker 1: listen to what her husband says regarding the children's disappearance.
23:30
Speaker 8: I want to thank all of you in the community
23:32
Speaker 8: and in the media for all your support you have
23:34
Speaker 8: shown me, myself, Sarah and Jacob, my family throughout the
23:39
Speaker 8: entire process. As I'm sure you understand, it's been a
23:43
Speaker 8: very emotional time for myself and others who love my
23:46
Speaker 8: family and my children. I've just decided to go ahead
23:50
Speaker 8: and read a prepared statement and then not take questions today,
23:57
Speaker 8: Catherine Hogle has murdered my children, and I hope Sarah and.
24:01
Speaker 5: Jacob get the justice they deserve.
24:03
Speaker 8: I have held out hope that something else may have happened,
24:07
Speaker 8: as I think that any parent under these circumstances would,
24:10
Speaker 8: But it has always been a faint hope, and I
24:13
Speaker 8: know now with the passage of time, that Catherine killed
24:15
Speaker 8: my babies.
24:18
Speaker 5: From the very beginning.
24:19
Speaker 8: Of this process three years ago, the Montgomery County Police
24:22
Speaker 8: Department in the State's Tourney's Office have been very consistent
24:24
Speaker 8: in their theory on this case. I know that they
24:29
Speaker 8: are right, and I fully support the charges handed down
24:32
Speaker 8: here today. I also knew they were I knew there
24:36
Speaker 8: was a good chance that we're right from the beginning.
24:39
Speaker 8: In addition to the investigation by the local police with
24:42
Speaker 8: the support of the family of family and friends, I've
24:46
Speaker 8: had my own professional private investigators study of the facts.
24:49
Speaker 8: And this isn't part of the riot part. But in
24:52
Speaker 8: the beginning they came in with an open mind. After investigating,
24:55
Speaker 8: they came to the same conclusion as the State's terms officer,
24:57
Speaker 8: and the police actually hired two or three of them,
25:01
Speaker 8: kind of like getting the second opinion from a doctor.
25:03
Speaker 8: And they all came back to Saint. Everyone who has
25:07
Speaker 8: reviewed this agrees that Catherine murdered Sarah and Jacob.
25:25
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. In a bizarre twist of
25:32
Speaker 1: the law, murder charges against a mom, Catherine Hoggle have
25:38
Speaker 1: been dropped. What a miscarriage of justice? Why are prosecutors
25:46
Speaker 1: so convinced as am I she murdered her children?
25:51
Speaker 2: Listen?
25:52
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, Director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Cheryl McCollum.
25:57
Speaker 1: Right after she is brought into by police and she
26:01
Speaker 1: is questioned under oath by the judge about where are
26:05
Speaker 1: your children? And she still refuses to say. The husband
26:10
Speaker 1: says that she's acting that. She says she wants to
26:14
Speaker 1: be found in competence so she can't be charged with
26:17
Speaker 1: giving away her children. Cheryl McCollum.
26:19
Speaker 2: Now that I think we're getting somewhere because Nancy, she's
26:22
Speaker 2: been play acting the whole time. She pretended to take
26:26
Speaker 2: Jacob for pizza, she pretended they read a new school.
26:29
Speaker 2: She pretended to go buy a coat. That's what she's
26:33
Speaker 2: good at. And when they get close to her, she
26:35
Speaker 2: tries to escape in some way. She hides her faith,
26:38
Speaker 2: She hides her identity, she runs from police.
26:42
Speaker 1: Catherine Hoggele, the mother of the two missing children, was
26:45
Speaker 1: located in Germantown there in Maryland and immediately taken into
26:49
Speaker 1: custody after she leaves them on a brief footschase. When
26:53
Speaker 1: they get her, Mommy is clutching a flyer that has
26:57
Speaker 1: been posted, tearing it down so nobody else can see
27:01
Speaker 1: the children or the tip line number. She refuses to
27:04
Speaker 1: say what happened to the children. At this moment, police
27:07
Speaker 1: still searching for the two children, Sarah and Jacob. Then
27:12
Speaker 1: they give a statement they are extremely concerned for the
27:16
Speaker 1: children's welfare. She has taken us all down the garden path.
27:23
Speaker 1: Chryl McCollum. Just hours after she slips out the back
27:27
Speaker 1: door of a Chick fil A, she boards a county
27:30
Speaker 1: bus near that restaurant, goes down Route one point eighteen
27:35
Speaker 1: Germantown Road between the Interstate two seventy and goes to
27:39
Speaker 1: the Germantown Commons shopping Center. She takes that bus after
27:43
Speaker 1: giving the husband a slip at Chick fil A. She
27:47
Speaker 1: rides the bus to the transit center I told you
27:49
Speaker 1: about to Lake Forest Mall and gets off. She sided
27:54
Speaker 1: there on videotape, and she is seen going in and
28:02
Speaker 1: out of various locations in that shopping mall. Cheryl McCollum.
28:05
Speaker 1: Then police go there. They go there to retrace her steps,
28:09
Speaker 1: hoping to find a trace of the children. Instead, they
28:12
Speaker 1: found the contents of her pocket book thrown in a
28:16
Speaker 1: bathroom in the building. What does that mean, Cheryl? What's
28:21
Speaker 1: she trying to get rid.
28:22
Speaker 2: Of her identity? Who she is? So when somebody catches her,
28:26
Speaker 2: even if it's in another town or city, she can
28:29
Speaker 2: make up a name and a date of birth, It's
28:31
Speaker 2: not going to be her. She's not going to exist anymore.
28:34
Speaker 2: You know.
28:34
Speaker 1: This plot seemingly gets more and more intricate. So we
28:39
Speaker 1: have her, let's retrace it, Cheryl and Cheryl, Cheryl White
28:43
Speaker 1: and Cheryl McCollum. We have her with the children alive
28:46
Speaker 1: at her mother's house. We have her father, the children's grandfather,
28:51
Speaker 1: giving her his car. She puts Jacob in the car,
28:55
Speaker 1: claiming they're going for pizza, coming back without them three
28:58
Speaker 1: hours later, stay that he stayed with his friend. She
29:02
Speaker 1: takes the baby away, claiming they're going home. The husband's
29:07
Speaker 1: at the night shift. Whoever she gave baby Jacob to
29:12
Speaker 1: that night or whatever she did with him. She takes
29:16
Speaker 1: the little girl. She leaves with the little girl. The
29:21
Speaker 1: little girl has never seen alive again. The dad gets
29:23
Speaker 1: home from work. Where are the children? Oh, I took
29:26
Speaker 1: them to a new daycare. Nobody's seen the children since
29:29
Speaker 1: the night before Sunday night. They start looking for the daycare,
29:33
Speaker 1: can't find it. She goes into Chick fil A she
29:37
Speaker 1: wants to coke. She slips out the side. She then
29:40
Speaker 1: eludes her husband who's sitting in the parking lot, takes
29:44
Speaker 1: a bus, gets away from him, and goes to a
29:48
Speaker 1: shopping center. She goes in and out of several locations.
29:52
Speaker 1: Police find out about it. They go rey retrace her steps.
29:56
Speaker 1: They don't find her. They find her pocketbook has been emptied.
30:01
Speaker 1: Why flyers Over ten thousand flyers go up all over town.
30:07
Speaker 1: A guy is looking at the flyer over a mailbox,
30:12
Speaker 1: then turns around to see Katherine Hockle. She has a
30:16
Speaker 1: perfectly normal saying conversation with them. His girlfriend immediately calls police.
30:22
Speaker 1: They come. She leads them on a brief but fast
30:27
Speaker 1: paced footchase. When they get her, she is torn down.
30:30
Speaker 1: The flyer of the children with the tip line, She's
30:34
Speaker 1: taken to police headquarters, She's questioned in court, she refuses
30:39
Speaker 1: to say where the children are, and the husband insists
30:44
Speaker 1: she's acting. Listen to what he says one more time.
30:48
Speaker 8: Katherine Hogoul has murdered my children, and I hope Sarah
30:52
Speaker 8: and Jacob get the justice they deserve. I have held
30:55
Speaker 8: out hope that something else may have happened, as I
30:59
Speaker 8: think that any under the circumstances would, But it has
31:02
Speaker 8: always been a faint hope. And I know now with
31:05
Speaker 8: the passage of time, that Catherine killed my babysit.
31:08
Speaker 1: So where is Jacob? Where is Sarah? Tipline three zero
31:13
Speaker 1: one two seven, nine, eight thousand. Then and another twist,
31:20
Speaker 1: Cheryl White, Crime Story's contributor. She now claims she's paranoid schizophrenic. Okay,
31:29
Speaker 1: her husband says she's acting. The children are still missing.
31:34
Speaker 1: When did that come about? So now we see a
31:37
Speaker 1: mental defect. I mean she told her husband she wants
31:40
Speaker 1: to be found incompetent so she can't be charged or
31:42
Speaker 1: go to jail. What do we know about her claims
31:45
Speaker 1: of paranoise gizophrenia?
31:47
Speaker 3: Cheryl White, Well, she has a history of mental issues.
31:51
Speaker 3: Here's something I find extremely odd is that shortly after
31:57
Speaker 3: she was taken into custody, she told her family members
32:02
Speaker 3: that she would take police to her children, but she
32:06
Speaker 3: had to do it personally. So she went to court
32:10
Speaker 3: then to get a judge's okay that she could take
32:15
Speaker 3: them to the children. But that's not what ended up happening. Well,
32:21
Speaker 3: when she got to court, her attorneys said Hoggle was
32:26
Speaker 3: in no metal condition to make the claim to take
32:29
Speaker 3: them on the journey to the children, and that in fact,
32:32
Speaker 3: she did not want to help, and that her condition
32:35
Speaker 3: was so deteriorated she should not even be interrogated.
32:40
Speaker 1: Wow, that's convenient, Cheryl McCollum. So she says, okay, okay,
32:45
Speaker 1: I'm tired of jail. Let me out and I will
32:48
Speaker 1: take you to the children. You know what, do you
32:50
Speaker 1: remember that wild goose chase that top mom Casey Anthony
32:54
Speaker 1: led police on in the search for Zonaida Gonzalez. They
33:00
Speaker 1: went all over town. They went to slablegress apartments. She
33:03
Speaker 1: claims she worked at Universal Man. She had it down.
33:06
Speaker 1: She even got to the security entrance and told them
33:11
Speaker 1: that she worked there, and they're like, wow, we can't
33:14
Speaker 1: find you on the employee list. And she goes yeah,
33:16
Speaker 1: well I did work here. Hey, you can call my
33:19
Speaker 1: co employees. And she gave names and phone numbers extensions,
33:24
Speaker 1: names of people that worked at Universal, and the security
33:28
Speaker 1: was calling them, and so police are onto. So they
33:32
Speaker 1: take her in and they get all the way up
33:35
Speaker 1: to the door and they're going into Universal, and she says, okay, ah,
33:39
Speaker 1: you got me, like it's some kind of a game.
33:43
Speaker 1: I don't really work at Universal anymore. And all those
33:46
Speaker 1: times she had been sitting on her parents' sofa, eating
33:48
Speaker 1: their food out of their fridge and letting them take
33:50
Speaker 1: care of the baby, claiming she worked at Universal. She
33:53
Speaker 1: would even put on a Universal outfit with tags, old
33:58
Speaker 1: ID tags and leave to go lay up at her
34:02
Speaker 1: boyfriend's apartment. So it's such a charade. And Cheryl McCollum,
34:08
Speaker 1: it sounds like the same thing with Catherine Hoggle.
34:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Catherine's overplaying her hand a little bit,
34:13
Speaker 2: because you know Nancy better than me. Schizophrenic doesn't mean
34:18
Speaker 2: you don't go to jail. The only reason you're going
34:20
Speaker 2: to stay out of jail is if you can demonstrate
34:23
Speaker 2: you don't know right from wrong. Well, she's already to
34:25
Speaker 2: me proven beautifully she knows what she's done is wrong again,
34:30
Speaker 2: from trying to hide her face, to run in from
34:33
Speaker 2: the police, to not want to involve the police, and
34:35
Speaker 2: not calling number one one to TAKEHI down the poster.
34:38
Speaker 2: She knows so now this is her latest game.
34:42
Speaker 1: Catherine Hoggle, aged thirty, indicted on two counts a first
34:46
Speaker 1: degree murder, accused of killing her two year old son
34:51
Speaker 1: and her three year old daughter. I want to go
34:57
Speaker 1: to you, Cheryl McCollum. Never been found. The people she
35:02
Speaker 1: allegedly gave her children to have never been found. How
35:08
Speaker 1: do we know they weren't sold. How do we know
35:11
Speaker 1: she didn't just give them away? There's nobody. How is
35:17
Speaker 1: she charged with murder Cheryl?
35:21
Speaker 2: Well, it's a nobody homicide case, Nancy. And what we
35:24
Speaker 2: do know is at this point years have gone by,
35:28
Speaker 2: the children would have started school. Whoever she gave the
35:32
Speaker 2: children too would have had to take them to school,
35:34
Speaker 2: to the doctor, other places. At this point, they know
35:37
Speaker 2: a manhunt has been going over to the children. This couple,
35:41
Speaker 2: if they existed, would have come forward in some ways.
35:44
Speaker 2: They haven't done anything wrong, but they're not raising to
35:48
Speaker 2: children with you know, no paperwork, no birth certificate or
35:51
Speaker 2: anything like that. It's not true. So again common sense
35:55
Speaker 2: tells us by her actions trying to escape all the time,
35:59
Speaker 2: trying to hide her any trying to hide out in
36:02
Speaker 2: a mental institution, that she has done something horrible with
36:06
Speaker 2: these two children.
36:08
Speaker 1: As of right now, these two children have been deemed
36:11
Speaker 1: murder victims. Do we know if any evidence was found,
36:16
Speaker 1: such as blood, the clothing, a shallow grave, anything to
36:23
Speaker 1: suggest that they are dead, Sheryl White.
36:26
Speaker 3: Well, what I do know is that state's attorney, John
36:30
Speaker 3: McCarthy says, we would never have filed the charges indicted
36:33
Speaker 3: her on two murder charges if we didn't feel we
36:37
Speaker 3: have a case.
36:38
Speaker 1: Take a listen to what the state attorney in Montgomery
36:41
Speaker 1: County has to say.
36:42
Speaker 4: Under Maryland law, an individual charged with only misdemeanors can
36:47
Speaker 4: only be hospitalized and detained in a formal hospital slash
36:54
Speaker 4: prison setting for a maximum period of three years. She
36:58
Speaker 4: has been incarcerata in that facility, essentially receiving evaluations on
37:04
Speaker 4: a regular basis for her competency to stand trial over
37:08
Speaker 4: the last three years.
37:10
Speaker 5: The deadline for those three years came today.
37:15
Speaker 4: The court today would have had to dismiss the charges
37:19
Speaker 4: against her, and we would have had to release Miss
37:22
Speaker 4: Hoggle as a matter of law, because she could not
37:25
Speaker 4: be held any longer on those misdemeanors. Therefore, we sought
37:31
Speaker 4: an indictment from the grand jury yesterday, charging her with
37:34
Speaker 4: the two counts of murder.
37:36
Speaker 5: Again, there was no advantage to moving forward.
37:37
Speaker 4: I will tell you that as long and I think
37:39
Speaker 4: I've publicly said this before, as long as there's not
37:43
Speaker 4: an indictment, you are allowed to continue to use a
37:46
Speaker 4: grand jury for the purposes of a criminal investigation. Once
37:50
Speaker 4: you indict a case, you lose that option, you lose
37:54
Speaker 4: that right.
37:54
Speaker 5: That was an investigative tool that we had available to us.
37:58
Speaker 4: It did not make any sense if she remained incompetent
38:02
Speaker 4: to lose that tool well because of the law that
38:06
Speaker 4: would have dictated she would become free without any ability
38:09
Speaker 4: for us to check on her whereabouts or her medical station.
38:13
Speaker 4: It became incumbent on us to take the additional step
38:16
Speaker 4: to seek the indictment for the two counts of murder
38:19
Speaker 4: that we did yesterday. The law's now changed in terms
38:23
Speaker 4: of how long we can hold her for the purposes
38:26
Speaker 4: of the evaluation. Miss Hogel can now be held five
38:30
Speaker 4: years now charge with the felony for the purposes of
38:34
Speaker 4: the doctors to attempt to restore who to competency. Competency
38:38
Speaker 4: just basically means you have to have a basic understanding
38:41
Speaker 4: of the nature of the charges. Again, so you have
38:43
Speaker 4: to be able to assist your attorney in defending yourself.
38:46
Speaker 4: This has nothing to do with her guilt or in
38:47
Speaker 4: a sense. I am tremendously frustrated. And I've said this
38:52
Speaker 4: in court before. Am I frustrated that we are here
38:55
Speaker 4: three years into this and she's not been restored to competency.
38:58
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I am Why am I frustrated?
39:01
Speaker 4: Well, she's been Look, this is a woman who had
39:03
Speaker 4: a and again I'm talking about things that are in
39:06
Speaker 4: the public record. This was a young woman who'd had
39:09
Speaker 4: prior hospitalizations. She had been identified with psychiatric issues prior
39:14
Speaker 4: to the disappearance of her kids.
39:15
Speaker 5: She had been in various hospitals.
39:17
Speaker 4: She had been restored to competency before through psychotropic medications
39:22
Speaker 4: and reintroduced back into the community. I had every hope
39:26
Speaker 4: when she went to Perkins three years ago that we
39:28
Speaker 4: would have that same thing occur.
39:30
Speaker 5: She would fall into the care of psychiatrists.
39:33
Speaker 4: They would determine what her need was and they would
39:35
Speaker 4: begin through a regiment of medications to restore competency that
39:39
Speaker 4: would allow us to move forward. So I am tremendously frustrated,
39:43
Speaker 4: as I can tell you. Look, I'm sure any member
39:46
Speaker 4: of the family on either side of this will tell
39:49
Speaker 4: you above all, they are tremendously frustrated. They knew the
39:53
Speaker 4: psychiatric history, they knew about the restoration of competency in
39:57
Speaker 4: other cases, and they want to know why hasn't the
39:59
Speaker 4: hospital been able to to do that.
40:01
Speaker 5: It's a frustration for all of us.
40:03
Speaker 4: But again, we've just taken steps legally to give them
40:06
Speaker 4: additional time to do that. And I don't think we
40:09
Speaker 4: had any other option but to seek the indictment we
40:12
Speaker 4: saw it yesterday. It was the only way to adequately
40:15
Speaker 4: I think, protect the public and protect some individual people
40:19
Speaker 4: in particularly.
40:20
Speaker 1: Back to Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research
40:24
Speaker 1: Institute Cheryl, for the longest time, Catherine Huggle stays at
40:30
Speaker 1: a cushy psych facility, repeatedly attempting to escape, and then
40:36
Speaker 1: when she's caught trying to escape, she says she wants
40:39
Speaker 1: to go see her children, and she'll leave police to
40:41
Speaker 1: her children in order to get out. What do you
40:43
Speaker 1: make of that, Cheryl McCollum.
40:45
Speaker 2: The key is eight times she is attempted to escape.
40:50
Speaker 2: If she wanted her children to be, okay, she would
40:53
Speaker 2: tell them where to go, get them and let the
40:54
Speaker 2: children be.
40:55
Speaker 1: So what does this say to you? Every time she
40:57
Speaker 1: wants to get out, she says she'll lead the police
40:59
Speaker 1: to her children. That doesn't sound crazy to me.
41:02
Speaker 2: That sounds like a stunt to me. That sounds like,
41:04
Speaker 2: if you let me out, I will do something for you.
41:07
Speaker 2: That's the extortion.
41:09
Speaker 1: Another issue to Sheryl White Crime Stories contributor is the
41:13
Speaker 1: legal time limit the statutal limitations on the three misdemeanors
41:20
Speaker 1: the child neglect misdemeanors that she had been charged with
41:23
Speaker 1: initially we're about to give out, which means she would
41:27
Speaker 1: have walked free, okay, right after they go missing. You've got, like,
41:32
Speaker 1: you know, a year or so. On the statutal limitations
41:37
Speaker 1: on misdemeanors it is one to three years, and once
41:40
Speaker 1: that ends and you haven't been prosecuted, you walk free,
41:46
Speaker 1: of course, unless you filed a demand for speedy trial,
41:48
Speaker 1: which she did not. So she's about to walk free,
41:51
Speaker 1: and this murder charge comes down. Is that the way
41:53
Speaker 1: it goes, Cheryl White, That's the way it goes exactly.
41:56
Speaker 3: So time was running out, so she was indicted on
42:00
Speaker 3: two counts of murder for the two missing children, and
42:04
Speaker 3: now she can be held for five years under medical care.
42:07
Speaker 3: Now that she's been indicted on the murder charges.
42:10
Speaker 1: In the last hours, a judge, in his wisdom has
42:15
Speaker 1: ruled Catherine Hoggle will not stand trial in the murders
42:21
Speaker 1: of two little children, Jacob and Sarah, disappear from Montgomery
42:27
Speaker 1: County just two and three years old, and they have
42:30
Speaker 1: never been seen. Well, if this is the law, then
42:34
Speaker 1: the law is an ass Isn't it true that there
42:39
Speaker 1: is no statute limitations on murder? Can Hoggle be recharged
42:46
Speaker 1: and tried in the future. We wait, as just as
42:50
Speaker 1: some faults